Welcome to the ADHD Women's Wellbeing Podcast.

I'm Kate Moore Youssef and I'm a wellbeing and lifestyle coach, EFT practitioner, mum to four kids and passionate about helping more women to understand and accept their amazing ADHD brains.

After speaking to many women just like me and probably you, I know there is a need for more health and lifestyle support for women newly diagnosed with adhd.

In these conversations, you'll learn from insightful guests, hear new findings and discover powerful perspectives and lifestyle tools to enable you to live your most fulfilled, calm and purposeful life wherever you are on your ADHD journey.

Here's today's episode.

Welcome back to another episode.

And today I am really deep, delighted and actually very excited to dive into this conversation.

We're going to be talking about nutrition, intuitive eating and our relationship with food as neurodivergent women.

And we have Dr. Helen Lawal here now.

Dr. Helen Lawell is a medical doctor from the NHS, but she also has incredible qualifications and expertise in nutrition and mindset coaching and health coaching and really is there to support so many people understanding themselves now through this neurodivergent lens.

And so I just wanted to welcome you to the podcast.

Thank you for.

Thank you for being here.

And I guess it's really exciting to talk to somebody who is got her toes.

Toes.

I don't know if that's the right word in all the different waters.

Is that right?

I don't even know if that's right.

That is my.

That is one of my ADHD traits.

I always get all my little analogies mixed up.

My dad laughs at me all the time about that.

Fingers and pies will go with.

Because you are understanding ADHD from so many different layers.

I know you work with in ADHD support groups and you've got your coaching groups, but I would love to be able to understand your picture a little bit, because being an NHS doctor and understanding your maybe how your neurodivergence showed up and what's led to your interest in nutrition and food and our relationship with all of this.

So maybe you could give us a little bit of an insight into that.

Yeah, I'd love to.

Thanks for having me on, by the way.

I'm really excited to dive in as well.

I know we started chatting before, but it was like, right, we just need to press record because this is going to be a good one.

I guess the reason I'm here and the reason I'm sort of specializing now in ADHD women and nutrition is because of My own journey that I've been through.

So I've worked in the NHS as a medical doctor for 15 years.

I've worked across loads of different specialties ranging from obs and gynae to sexual health to more recently, contraception.

So very much in recent years, supporting women and women only in the NHS and really getting to understand women when they come in for their contraception at the different phases of their life in pregnancy, perimenopause, post menopausal, starting the Marina coil.

And if we rewind back to about, I'd say six or seven years ago as a newly qualified GP and I did my training in London, moved back to Yorkshire where I now live and I was really, really struggling and at first I was like, well, it's normal, isn't it, to struggle when you're newly qualified because everything's very difficult and quite stressful.

But it didn't really get better over time.

I sort of switched practices and things were still really difficult.

And then my health really started deteriorate, both mentally and physically.

And I'd had a tough time as a junior doctor in London and I finally got the diagnosis of being ADHD and things really then began to make sense for me.

And I think that's what it does, isn't it, that discovery?

It really helps you understand yourself through a different lens and begin to bring meaning to what was chaos and confusion previously.

And I think when you live for so many decades not really understanding what's going on and feeling like you don't fit in and feel like something's wrong with you, it means you end up with really low self esteem.

And not only that, but it can mean that you end up with some unhelpful habits.

And that was me too.

I'd say I was pretty unhealthy.

I really struggled with getting in a routine, with exercise, getting to bed on time, sleep, just anything that required being consistent and showing up, you know, daily and being consistent and food was a biggie for me and I felt like such a hypocrite being a doctor and really struggling with binges and sugar cravings, which dominated my life.

And I think once I realized what was going on for me and I began to deep dive you hyper focus and into researching everything about adhd.

And I was like, well, I'm not finding much nutrition or support on nutrition and adhd.

So that's when I thought, right, I'm going to do some extra training, qualifications and I'm going to make this what I do.

So that's how I've ended up where I am now and I think really when I'm supporting women now they really appreciate the medical background but also that I have the lived experience and my approach is definitely more holistic and compassionate I'd say.

So it's a bit of a contrast to the medical approach that you might get when you see the gp.

I really think it's important to take a step back and although medications can be life changing, they don't give all the answers and I think a lot of us really want to be able to do other things in our daily life really to support our well being and our, and our self care.

Because that's what matters after all.

Yeah, absolutely.

And I think, you know, I can hear it's the psycho education I think really, really helps us because like you say you were a doctor but you were still struggling like what I presume was burnout and overwhelm, really trying to mask maybe some of the ADHD traits and symptoms that were coming out as a doctor.

And I can't even imagine training as a doctor, you know, with adhd.

I can't imagine how difficult that must have been.

Even though you had the passion and obviously all the potential and all of that and everything that comes with that.

But then as you're a practicing doctor and you're dealing with all of these other difficulties like you say the binge eating and the sugar addiction, we think it's a problem, it's an us problem.

We kind of think we've got a problem with our discipline or our self control or there's some, you know, something negative about us that we can't keep a tab on this.

And I wonder how did you feel then maybe from a personal perspective but also with your doctor head on that people weren't talking about this, you know, the addictive tendencies and the dopamine seeking and you know, maybe when we're really low energy and we're looking for sugar to give us that, that.

Pick me up.

Did you feel there was a lack of awareness within the medical community?

Oh definitely.

There most definitely is.

And if you actually, I really like to come from an evidence based perspective and know what the research is.

But then also it is really about lived experience and we know ourselves best, don't we, no matter what the evidence says.

So I initially when I sort of had a look on PubMed and researching to see what was out there, I was like, there's barely anything out there.

This is such a major part of life, food and drinking and sleeping and all the Basic things that we need as human beings to live and to feel.

Well, this isn't even necessarily about thriving.

I think we have to be careful to talk about thriving because it can put a lot of pressure on to achieve this state.

That's not necessarily, you know, we can't maintain that.

But this is really just about living healthily and feeling well.

And so if the research is out there, I have read it, but there is very little out there.

And that's when I thought, well, how can that be?

And it's another area of women's health, isn't it, that's neglected.

We know that with menopause in previous times.

And so I thought, I need to start speaking up about this online.

And I say I'm quite a private person and despite working on TV for many years, I'd never really shared much about myself online.

So it was very scary.

But I just felt this force within that was like, no, you've got to advocate, you've got to speak up.

And the more I spoke up and shared what some of the struggles were with that sense of overwhelm, finding it hard to even just like, plan for meals, do the food shop.

And then once you've got all the ingredients in the fridge, it's then opening the fridge and feeling overwhelmed because you've got all the ingredients and then the cooking.

And let's face it, for other people, maybe if we're looking at it from an ableist perspective or from a neurotypical perspective, you just need to know what to eat and then you just do your batch cooking, your meal prepping, job done.

But actually, if we break that down, that requires like, executive function.

And I don't like the word executive dysfunction, so let's talk about executive function.

And so that's this ability, isn't it, to break things down into small steps, follow them in a sequence, in a timey sequence, and prioritize.

And if we think about doing a food shop and cooking a meal, following a recipe, we need to be able to have the level of executive function.

Then if we add in all the emotional stuff, the emotional dysregulation, the overwhelm, the rejection, sensitivity, dysphoria we might be feeling.

So you've then got emotional intensity and strain and emotional eating plus executive function, and it can just make it really, really difficult.

And so what I have found, and what the research does acknowledge, is that as ADHDers, as ADHD women, we are more likely to have eating disorders, to have disordered eating, binge eating.

We are more likely to eat processed foods, have an unhealthy diet lacking in protein.

And we know that in children at least, where there is a bit more evidence that we are more likely to have certain nutritional deficiencies as well.

So yeah, I sort of made it my mission now to be there and create these safe spaces and support groups where women can come and share and be heard, know they're not alone, feel validated, feel heard, know there's nothing wrong with them, just like you said.

But it does require a different approach, a different way of thinking, a different way of setting yourself up to enable us to actually execute in the way we want and make healthy eating a reality rather than it being like a distant thing that we feel like we just can't get reach over.

I see it play out, you know, I've got four kids and they've all got ADHD in different ways.

And I talk about food all the time.

I talk about it from like a brain health perspective, energy, sleep.

I'm like this broken, annoying record that is just constantly, but it also scares me a bit.

I'm like, I really want to give them those tools and that help and the support so they can look after themselves from a nutritional perspective.

And I spoke to my son the other day and he, he said to me, very validating when cooking's really annoying, isn't it?

Because it was like 2:30 in the afternoon, he hadn't eaten yet and that's quite typical for him.

You just, I don't know what to make.

I don't know what to make.

So annoying.

Everyday cookie.

I was like, welcome to my world.

Every single day they I've had to put food on the table for the four of you and he's just like, how do you know what to make?

Like I need to go shopping and it's so annoying.

And then he gets to a point where he's so hungry that he'll do the inevitable and either order thing on Deliveroo or go to McDonald's and do what students do.

But that makes me feel very nervous because I know the impact of his mood and I know he goes to bed really late and all of that.

And I know I can't control him.

You know, he's down the road from you in Leeds.

I'll send you knocking his door for me.

I wonder how you begin this journey, I guess when people are only finally understanding later on in life how their neurodivergence is, is interconnected with probably a lifelong cycle of disordered eating.

Yeah, I love the example with your son.

There, because that's what I hear all the time from the women I work with is they'll go through periods.

For example, on a normal day they might be so hyper focused in the task that they're doing that they forget to eat or they remember they're hungry.

But then it's not interesting, it's not going to get the dopamine going.

Or even with reduced interoceptive awareness, maybe they're not even getting those hunger signals through until they're ravenously hungry.

Then actually the brain's very clever because it knows if you're starving or fasting or ravenously hungry, you then need to get energy in as quickly as possible.

So then that's when you seek the high fat, high sugar foods or maybe the foods that will give you that sensory experience, maybe the very salty foods or the crunchy foods.

And that can begin this cycle of periods of fasting and not eating much and then periods of bingeing because we're more likely to overeat and over consume if we leave it till we're ravenously hungry.

And it can feel that we are stuck in a rut with it and stuck in a cycle.

And that in itself can feel overwhelming.

And you mentioned shame there.

And actually shame is one of the emotions that maintains the binge restrict cycle.

So we tell ourselves that we're going to be good and it's this all or nothing black, white thinking, right?

So I'm going to be really, really healthy and like home cook all my meals and not have any takeaways or sugar.

I'm going to completely avoid sugar and unhealthy foods.

And then there's only so long that anyone can maintain that for.

That's not realistic for anybody.

And then we get the hunger surges and the cravings and then we might binge and then we feel really, really bad about ourselves.

That feeling of shame that can feel very heavy and spiral and then it feeds into more emotional eating.

And so I think the first step really is seeing this as something that will take time.

Like you said, it's been lifelong that we've got to this point.

So this is about giving yourself a break and giving yourself permission.

This is going to take time and it's about making those changes very, very slowly and being patient with yourself.

And I think the other thing is that the first step really is to bring awareness to what your current habits are.

Because you probably feel like.

It probably feels very chaotic and messy like most of life, right?

It feels like on this daily roller coaster.

And so I Think the first step is really bringing awareness and from a place of compassion and curiosity.

And so to do that, the simple things that you could do, like making a note of what you're eating, taking a photo diary of your food over a week or a food diary and you might be really surprised on certain foods that you are eating a lot more of that you hadn't realized.

There's that mindless eating, isn't there, where you're eating and you don't really realize what you're eating.

So that's the first step really.

But to approach that with curiosity because I think we could be so critical of ourselves and it's that critical thinking of oh, what's wrong with me?

Why can't I just eat healthily?

That then feeds into that.

And then I think the next thing really is that understanding.

So really getting to know yourself, what it means to be ADHD and maybe where the ADHD is showing up for you in your life.

So emotional eating and the RSD and figuring out where that might be shaping your eating habits.

And then I think once you've got that deep understanding and awareness of yourself, then you can begin to make changes, but from a place of compassion.

And really I always say that it's really important to remember that good is good enough and it's progress over performance, affection.

And this isn't about having a perfect diet.

So I give my clients permission, I'm giving all the listeners permission.

It is okay to have takeaways ready meals, use microwavable foods, use tin foods, frozen foods.

And once we begin to give ourselves permission to let go of perfectionism and incorporate these foods into our life and make things easy.

So this is really about simplifying nutrition and making foods as easy as possible.

Because at the moment it takes up so much of our thinking and our headspace.

Actually we don't want it to.

We want it to be something we occasionally think about every now and then when we've got the spoons to do that.

Otherwise we want to free up our minds that we can focus on things that bring us joy and things that make us happy.

Our career, our family, our special interests.

And so it definitely requires a shift in mindset, a different way of doing things and that's different for everyone.

And it does require that creativity.

So almost seeing it as something fun or a challenge or how am I going to approach this?

What can I try that's different?

That could mean getting the right support, of course, by professional who's neuro affirming or being part of A community of like minded women who can support you through it.

Yeah, I think that that permission is just everything, isn't it?

Because even then, you know, there's still this narrative of everything has to be fresh and you've got to cook it yourself and it's all got to be from scratch and got to put your heart into it and all of that.

And there's some people who genuinely love cooking and that is a happy place.

That's where they put, you know, creativity.

It's where they sort of become mindful and, and that's amazing.

But there's a lot of other people who just don't love cooking.

It's just not their thing.

They, like you say they prefer to put their efforts into something else and eating or cooking is a means to an end.

And like you say that interoception.

If, if we only, if it only hits us, the hunger at the very last minute and all of a sudden we just like I have to just eat whatever is.

Is there that permission to say it's okay actually if I'm just going to have a freezer food or some beans on toast or you know, something like that.

Just taking that kind of the guilt or the edge away.

I do think we need to change that narrative a little bit because there is so much pressure.

I think as women, I think perfectionism is very, very prevalent in our community and we just think everything, we've got to do everything the hard way.

Maybe because life has felt, I'd say, hard and not simple, we've been conditioned to believe that's just how life is.

And when something feels simple or easy, we get suspicious, we feel uneasy.

Our nervous system kind of goes, this is not right, this isn't safe like you meant.

Life's meant to be hard.

I kind of sometimes feel like that I still feel really guilty when I use ChatGPT.

Like literally every time I'm like, this is my dark secret and everyone's using it.

Yeah.

Because in my head it's got to be hard and I've got to, it's got to be hours.

But actually now I've changed this mindset, I've reframed it and if I can take some of the heavy load and ask CHAT GPT to help me with something, I've started just embracing this for different things and you know, we can use things like AI tools, you know, print out a menu for me that breaks it all down and helps me buy all the right food and, and we just go to the supermarket and we have that done for us and that we shouldn't feel guilty about things like that.

I was wondering, do we talk about things like those types of tools in your community?

Yeah, definitely.

It really is about making it as simple as possible.

Remember, simple doesn't mean it's not nutritious.

Simple doesn't mean that we're not having a healthy balanced diet.

It's become overcomplicated, hasn't it?

And I think when we look at who some of the key people are online, who are what healthy balanced diet means and gut health, it does feel very overwhelming.

And also there's a lot of misinformation.

And so it's really about, first of all, do I actually know what the facts are, what the evidence is, what is a healthy balanced diet?

And I'm happy to share, very briefly, that we know that a healthy balanced diet consists of a diet with lots of plants in.

There is a study which suggests over 30 over a week, and that's just a number.

But really, when we talk about plants, we mean herbs and spices, fruit and vegetables, legumes, nuts and seeds.

So there's lots to choose from.

And you'll be surprised if you have a look at what you've eaten that you won't be far off that number anyway.

It's about having enough protein, which is especially important.

I think for us, there's not that much evidence on protein and adhd, but we know that protein, which is made from amino acids and amino acids are the building blocks for our neurotransmitters.

And we know that when neurotransmitters are produced, and a lot of them are produced in the gut, by the way, we think of them as being in the brain, but they're produced in the gut.

They also require lots of micronutrients and vitamins and minerals to be produced.

Are we having enough healthy fats?

Are we having enough of the right type of carbohydrates, complex carbohydrates, and drinking enough water and having enough color in our diet?

So those are really, really simplify it down.

Those are the things that really matter.

And I think that if we look on Instagram, everything looks so pretty and everything feels like there's all these layers and so many loads of ingredients.

But it is okay to eat the same two breakfasts on repeat.

It is okay to have your four or five favorite meals that you rotate around.

And I say to anyone listening, if you're thinking, oh, I don't know if I have got healthy balanced diet, just think about the foods and the Meals that you find really, really easy to cook already and just think about what you can add into them.

So I call this the add in principle.

It's about what you can add in.

You don't need to find new recipes over the time.

If you've got your go to, I don't know, mince, but beef Bolognese, can you add in some mixed beans and lentils, can you add in some extra frozen peppers into there to add a bit of colour?

The same with your breakfast.

If you like oats, what else can you add into your porridge?

Nuts, seeds?

Can you stir some kefir in there?

Instead of just having, like banana, can you add a handful of a variety of berries in there?

There's all these ways that mean that we can just eat the same meals on repeat that we're really comfortable with, that we really love, we're not going to get bored of, but we've got such diversity within each of those meals that it means that we can be confident that we are giving our body, we are giving our gut and our brains what it needs to really thrive.

And then this isn't really about avoiding sugar.

If there's three things that I want everyone to know.

You don't have to weigh yourself at all, even you don't have to avoid sugar and you don't have to count calories.

It is possible to be healthy and to lose weight without doing those three things.

I think the more that we do each of those things, the more we become stuck and the more we're just going to go round and round in circles, because those are all forms of tracking, they're all forms of counting restriction, rule based.

They're all forms of avoidance and deprivation.

Punishment isn't.

It is.

And like you say, we're so used to feeling uncomfortable and for life, feeling difficult.

And so I think if you can learn to let go of those things and build the trust again, and trust that listening to your body and eating more intuitively, but giving yourself permission to have every chocolate.

I eat chocolate every day.

I keep thinking to myself, I see all these beautiful Instagram videos of other nutritionists making these meals and I think, do you really eat like that every day?

And also, why can't we just see you eating some chocolate?

Yeah, I keep thinking I'm just going to, like, that's what those are the reels I'm going to make of me in dessert, because that is the reality of it.

And now that they let themselves have dessert with every meal, the cravings have gone in combination with making sure they're actually eating enough, they're having enough protein and fibre, the cravings have completely gone and they're still getting to enjoy chocolate, they still feel healthy, they're still losing weight.

And so, yeah, I think it's really, really key to recognize when you're being harsh on yourself and to bring that softness and to bring that compassion, that kindness in, which does take time, it does take practice, because like you say, we're so used to being mean to ourselves and to other people.

Mean to us as well, and telling us what to do and not believing in it.

Yeah, 100%.

And I've actually been watching the new Jamie Oliver program.

He's got so many programs, but this one is about all the healthy eating and he sort of brings in the nutritional guidance or insights.

And it's actually really interesting because he's saying, right, this is the amount of veggies and this is where you can get your protein from and herbs count as a vegetable and just making it, like, simple.

And I do love Jamie Oliver because he is neurodivergent as well.

So he does simplify everything and he makes it really accessible.

And I think this program that he's doing right now is really taking into consideration how we do need that protein and the healthy fats and we need that balanced plate of food where we can find the fruit and the veg from the places that we didn't think we could, and bringing in all the lentils and all the fiber.

And I, I sometimes do need that inspiration because I cook all the same things.

My kids will shout at me, me because I do that hidden vegetables thing in this bag bowl.

And my son's like, you've put courgettes in.

I've, like, grated them on the finest thing.

He's like, I don't.

How can you see them?

He's like, I found them.

And I put beans in the.

In the Bolognese and everything.

And I'm just trying to do what we can, but the.

The limit is that they hate whole wheat pasta.

Like, so I'm just like, you know what?

I'll put the veggies in the sauce.

But they hate the whole wheat pasta, so I'm just parking that.

And you have to kind of just do what you can in the restrictions and the resources that you've got and the finances and the time and not put so much pressure on yourself that it all, like you say, this black and white has to be perfect.

If I'm going to go down this healthy eating, then Everything I eat has to be organic and it has to be fresh and everything and just give, cut ourselves some slack because we haven't done that, I don't think, or our whole lives.

Like we've always put pressure on ourselves.

Yeah, it's okay to have spag bowl and pasta.

It's okay to have beans on toast or a jacket potato or toast every day for breakfast.

These things are okay.

And yeah, there is a lot of pressure.

And yeah, some people will find that they get really bored and so they want to constantly add in the newness.

It's different for everyone, isn't it?

To, to explore and experiment with new flavors and new recipes and that they do get boring.

Whereas other people will have their safe foods, the foods that they trust and they eat and, and they eat on repeat.

So again, it's the diversity with the neurodiversity, isn't it?

We're all so different.

And I think it's also really important that when we're thinking about making changes to our health and trying to improve our nutrition or lose weight, it is really important to think about non food related ways to really take care of ourselves.

Because you've mentioned sleep there.

Well, we know that when we're sleep deprived that that impacts on our hunger hormones.

We know that it increases our hunger hormones.

We also feel lower in energy, so we're more likely inactive and we're more likely to reach for foods that are going to give us that energy boost.

So if you know that sleep is an issue for you, you know, food and cravings aren't really the problem, they're just the symptom.

And I think that cravings in particular aren't the problem, they're just the best solution you've come up with to another problem that's going on.

So that might be sleep.

So why not take some time to think about your sleep and maybe go to the doctors and check you've not got a sleep disorder.

For example, sleep disorders are really common in, in neurodivergent individuals, circadian rhythm disorders and delayed sleep syndrome.

And so you might find by doing that or by looking at your sleep hygiene so your sleep routine and getting support over there that without even thinking about food there's a positive ripple effect.

And before you know it, your cravings have reduced and you're, you've got more energy to do a bit more cooking or to eat different foods.

And it's the same with rest.

Even if you can't access more sleep, how can you incorporate more slowness into the day and more rest or doing things where you are in your flow state, where your mind is resting because you're just focusing on that one thing that you really love to do.

And it's the same with exercise and movement.

Really.

What can you find that really gives you the energy and energizes your body that you crave?

That feels easy and, and so it has to be holistic.

When we're thinking about food, we can't just look at food.

When we're thinking about nutrition and health, we really have to zoom out and consider all the other aspect of food, our stress levels, you know, how what we do to take care of ourselves, the career that we're in, the jobs that we're in and all these things impact on our health directly and they impact on our gut health directly, don't we, with stress?

And it can have a direct impact on our hormones, cortisol, the way we digest our food.

And so it's really important not to just focus on food.

And I think anyone that's trying to sell you food or a supplement as the fix, as the cure to the problem is really misleading.

It really has to be about looking at the whole human and that person, especially in the context of their neurodivergence.

I wondered if you could maybe touch on this rise in GLP1s.

What are your thoughts, I guess on them?

I know they can be quite contentious, but I'm also hearing other schools of thought where on the very, very low dose they can be really helpful in reducing cravings and helping create new neural pathways and then hopefully helping people create those new habits and create new mindsets around food.

I know it's a loaded question because there's so many different things going on, but I have also spoken to people who are neurodivergent and they have found that it's been very helpful, maybe initially with the weight loss, but also with maybe intrusive thoughts and the OCD side of food and I guess finding a way to maintain that while they come off them or they're on a very, very low dose.

I wondered if you'd be happy to talk about that.

I mean from.

In my opinion, I'm not anti the injectables.

I think that it's all happened very quickly and I didn't necessarily think that we'd see a solution or a quick fix like this.

In my, you know, in my generation of medicine we still don't have much long term data.

So that's what I want to say first.

We still don't really know the impact of what being on these injectables over several years will actually do.

So I think it's really important that although they've been approved on the nhs, some of them also haven't and are available online.

We do need to hold that in mind with anything new that comes to the market.

The long term impacts.

Second of all.

Yeah.

I've heard from clients in my nutrition clinic and also patients in the NHS that the weight loss can happen so rapidly that it's almost like they feel their brain hasn't caught up with their body.

And so the benefits, I think, are that it can give you this rapid weight loss to get the momentum going.

But what's really, really key, more than ever, is two main things.

The first one is with any rapid weight loss, you're going to use lose muscle mass.

You potentially going to have less muscle mass than you did when you first started.

You're also going to have less fat, which of course is the point.

But the reason that that is important and we need to do what we can to safeguard against that, is because muscle is really important for metabolism.

It's really important for our insulin sensitivity.

The more muscle we have, the better we are at using insulin effectively when thinking about things like diabete and metabolic syndrome.

Also, muscle prevents us from aging as fast.

So we know that muscle mass is really important to prevent something called sarcopenia, which is generalized weakness as we get older.

And so protein and resistance exercise become more important than ever.

So use this window of opportunity if you are on these injections and you have lost weight to shift the focus away from food to some extent.

But remember to focus on getting enough protein and you may need more than ever and focusing on how are you going to build up your muscle strength in the long term.

Really, really important.

The second thing is that if you're eating less, it means there's less opportunity to get all the nutrients you need in.

And so, you know, some people are going hours and hours and not eating at all and then maybe just having one meal.

It's really difficult to get all the nutrition you need in that one meal.

So what are you doing to support your body through this process?

The body's going to be in shock.

It's thinking, what's going on?

We're going to be seeing, I'm sure there's going to be more data where we're going to be seeing these huge nutrition deficiencies.

So think about B12 folate, fat soluble vitamins.

So really, really consider how you're supporting your body through this process.

And lastly, what are you doing to get the support to help you maintain the weight once it's gone?

And so this is really what I do with clients.

This is where I start with clients.

We start by making sure they've got the foundations, they've got all the habits in place, they've got the practical meal planning toolkit, they've worked on their mindset so they think differently about food.

When we then enter into a period of weight loss and some of my clients are on injectables, which they've done themselves and some aren't, you then can be confident and not panicked and anxious about coming off them, that you can then maintain that weight easily without it then feeling scary to come off this super injection.

So there's lots to think about there and I think approach it with caution and make sure you're getting the right support in place and you think about what happens beyond when you stop the injections.

Yeah, I think.

Thank you for that advice.

And you know what, it's so powerful to get that from a doctor, but also someone that's working in the nutritional space as well.

And what I believe, you know, if there's a lot of people who are going on these injectables, there may be like a food addiction or binge eating going on, and I wonder what's causing that.

And very often it is the neurodivergence.

And we're not hearing enough about this because I, you know, from the very beginning of my journey, working in this space and speaking to different community members and clients, food and disordered eating has been there.

Not for everybody, but it's definitely been quite a prevalent part of their life story.

And they've never had an explanation or an understanding.

And they may have had a parent who also suffered in a similar way as well.

You know, we are only at the beginning stages of understanding all of this, aren't we?

And I love that you, as a NHS doctor, are able to see people through your practice, but you've also got this nutritional understanding and you're able to help from.

From both sides.

I wonder if you've seen people that are coming through who have absolutely no idea they're neurodivergent, but coming in and saying to you, I'm really struggling with, you know, binge eating or a sugar addiction, and you're.

You're then having to give them a bit of an understanding about perhaps it is neurodivergence.

I mean, in terms of where I work now, I either work with adhd and.

Or DHD women in my nutrition practice or I work in the NHS with adhd.

Like I'm completely biased.

You're fully in the system.

I'm fully in, yeah, all in.

Within the neurodivergence world.

But what I would say is that often they will mention food or I'll ask about food because I've got a bias towards bringing it up, and then I might help them navigate and realize that that is all ties into their ADHD or their autism, that it's part of it, because often that's something that, if we think about the.

The pathway in the UK at least, and the.

You wait to have an assessment, don't you, and then either autism or adhd, and then you'll be offered potentially medication for adhd, then you'll be titrated up and then you might be offered a bit of psychoeducation and with autism you'll be offered the assessment and then maybe some support.

But often food isn't talked about and it could be a huge part of what you're living with.

We know that with ADHD and there's evidence to support this, we're more likely to be obese than non ADHD adults, were more likely to have type 2 diabetes and were more likely to have cardiovascular disease.

So by that we mean heart attacks and ischemic heart disease, angina.

And so this isn't just about.

It feels awful because I'm struggling with food on a day to day and I'm having binges and sugar cravings and I feel overwhelmed.

This is also about.

I've also got these other health problems which are going to impact my longevity and my quality of life in the future.

And I think we're not doing enough about that.

The NHS is not doing enough to really begin to bring all that together and see that, you know, I know we might only be 5% of the population as adults, but if we're contributing to diabetes and heart disease that's out there, then we, we really deserve to have that specific support that we need to help us reduce our risk of disease, to help us get the support to lose weight if we want to, to reverse our type 2 diabetes, to manage our cholesterol.

And so that is something that I would really like to see more of and I'm going to work really hard to advocate for within the nhs, because I think it's something that we deserve.

Right?

Yeah.

And I think what you just said then, you know, about type of type 2 diabetes, heart health, gut issues, skin issues, I mean, there's so many different medical conditions that, you know, co occur alongside adhd.

I'll say audism as well.

This sort of crossover that the specialities, if someone's dealing, you know, an endocrinologist is dealing with type 2 diabetes, for them to not know like you say the prevalence of ADHD or you know, a cardiologist not understanding and all the different impacts and the layers of that there has to be.

I just wish we could see more cohesion in the health care system and how there's more understanding of that and it's making me think that we need to see ADHD as it is neurobiological.

And I'm not a medical expert but I know all the different neurological reasons why perhaps we are prone to binge eating or the sugar addiction.

I know that there's medical explanations for that.

But then you also touched on the emotional side of being undiagnosed ADHD or not understanding why we suffer with the executive functioning and the overwhelm and our working memory and organization and the emotional regulation and the RSD like you can see how multilayered it is.

And if a clinician doesn't understand this, we're only scratching the surface.

And I wondered as a doctor, do you see any progress in this?

Are we still quite far behind?

I know that there are, there's more psycho education being offered and I know in our service in Leeds, which is a new service, we do have a health coach that will be working with us which is really great to see.

So there is more of that lifestyle medicine piece coming into it.

But really this is why I've created the one to one program, the Greek program and the I do the support groups for ADHD UK is because there isn't that space for people to go to to get help with this.

So I volunteer for ADHD UK as one of their ambassadors and I do these monthly support groups and so hopefully that's an opportunity for people to come.

And it's donation based, it goes towards a charity to come and explore that.

And similarly in my group coaching program, although it is fee based, hopefully it's a really affordable way for people to get the information they need and then feel in a safe community of like minded women.

But what I really want and what I'm hoping to do in the future is for that to become just a normal part of how health is accessed.

A normal part of ADHD care and an autistic care is for people to have access to these groups, these education programs, these lifestyle medicine programs as part of the NHS as part of the care that they receive.

And I know there are some of the private providers because of course NHS uses private providers, doesn't it, to do their assessments who are beginning to incorporate these in.

So hopefully things will change.

We're beginning to see the changes that need to happen.

Really?

Yeah.

And you know, I'm so grateful for people like you who are in this system and in the NHS or working with other doctors because we need you advocating inside to help spread this understanding and education from a neurodivergent perspective and how it shows up in so many different, different ways.

So if people are listening to this right now and they're thinking, yes, I want this support, you know, tell people how they can find you and join your, your groups and your, your coaching support.

Yeah, you can find me on instagram over at Dr. Helen Law and LinkedIn and my website Dr. Helenlawell.com and yeah, I'm launching my next group coaching program in January and I sort of have open book if anyone wants to work one to one and get, really get that high level access and support support that they need.

And I've got loads of other fun stuff I'm working on like writing a book and an online video course as well.

So as well as loads of free resources, I've got a free masterclass, I've got season one of my podcast which is a hyper focused on health show.

So hopefully there's something for everyone there in my newsletter as well.

And I'm always sharing information and as I'm always reading new research papers and trying to stay up to date and that's something that I try and share as much as I can because people need to know that the information they're consuming is trusted information and that it's the right information from the right source.

And so I'd say to everyone, just constantly be vigilant, be cautious, question where the information, where you're getting the information from, if it is reliable and if you trust that person, because that's really, really important.

I think if we're going to take so much of our mental time and energy to research and access information, we want to make sure it's the right type of support and it comes from a good place.

Yeah, and I love what you said, you told me before that you do these cook alongs, we also need that practical support, don't we?

We need to know that we're with other people and we're doing that and I think that's so beneficial, isn't it?

Just to be able to know that there's a support group and I've got one as well.

And I love how you know, just being in a community of like minded people can take that, that it softens, it softens everything and you don't feel alone and you can be silly and you can be ADHD and like you say, turn up late, have the wrong ingredients, not listen to the recipe.

We can do all of that and feel like we're not being judged.

And I think that's, you know, that's.

Key in itself isn't is and have fun with it.

Yeah.

The cook alongs that I do in the support in the group coaching program are really, really good fun.

Everyone arrives late at different times, different ingredients.

Yeah.

And I think it is nice to bring that element of fun into things as well because it can feel really serious, can't it?

It can feel really hard.

And so I think we need to find these spaces where we can just be ourselves and show up as, as we are without judgment and, and have fun and celebrate our neurodivergence and all its, all the quirks that comes with being adhd.

Oh brilliant.

Well, thank you so, so much.

And I really, I think you're going to come in hopefully and speak to my community and I absolutely can't wait.

And maybe we'll do something a bit more practical or we'll do something, I don't know, we'll just, we'll have a bit of fun as well because I genuinely think that we need, we need to hear your guidance and we need to hear more of your insights because we shouldn't be in this, this cage of feeling, you know, like we're restricting or we're punishing ourselves.

We, we deserve to eat well and we need to, you know, we've not even talked about intuitive eating but we need to be able to give ourselves that grace and that compassion to, to eat and we've you know, touched on hormones or cycles but even just knowing that you know the 10 days before your period and you want to eat more carbs and you want to eat more stodgy food and you are craving more sort of sugary things and more energy like your body is like ready to sort of release laser blood and there's, it makes sense that your body is wanting to store lots of energy, you know, just, just to know things like that I think is so helpful.

But we'll get, we'll, I'm sure we'll speak again.

Yeah, we'll have to do another, another chat another time.

And yeah, there's always so much to talk about.

Isn't.

Especially when our brains are like a million miles an hour.

Like.

Yeah, exactly.

But thank you so much, Dr. Helen Lowell.

Thank you.

If this episode has been helpful for you and you're looking for more tools and more guidance, my brand new book, the ADHD Women's Wellbeing Toolkit is out now.

You can find it wherever you buy your books from.

You can also check out the audiobook if you do prefer to listen to me.

I have narrated it all myself.

Thank you so much for being here and I will see you for the next episode.