You're listening to K Y. Medical lake Spokane.

This is rearrange a co-production of KRS and range media. Broadcasting on Thanksgiving, but prerecorded for your listening pleasure. if all goes to plan and you are listening to this at 3:00 PM on Thursday. I hope you're enjoying this day in whatever way you want to. I'm going to probably be sick to my stomach before dinner even starts. While I've been oversampling, the food I'm cooking, that's usually the way I do it.

You're listening to this on Friday after as a podcast, hopefully you are feeling all right. And Not doing black Friday. I think that's kind of cursed.

I learned today that We are officially right now in black Friday week. Amazon declared this entire week, the week of black Friday. So,

Yeah, capitalism.

All right. So today was going to be a little bit of a different show for us. We're going to do a bit of an experiment. Joining us is a data journalist who lives in Spokane, but does not work in Spokane. Are we saying where you work? Okay. maybe just take a second to introduce yourself.

Yeah. So I'm Kai. I'm the data. And in fact, if news editor at the Dallas morning news once upon a time I worked at the spokesman review. So. That my partner here and. It moved back here.

Awesome. love, a rebound. joining us

here with some of them. My local favorites, Sarah Dixon and Johnny Harris.

My name is Sarah Dickson. My. Problems are she her? I wear a lot of hats in Spokane. I've been here for 10 years, which is wild to say. Julian California. I'm the organizing director of Patrice Washington, and I'm also the board president for Asians for collective liberation. And the chair for the equity center committee for the city of Spokane.

Johnny.

I have been in Spokane for. Four years. I'm a line cook. And just starting to get more involved. With the city joining the transportation commission.

I

representative.

Oh, really?

people's chagrin.

Are you a avid bus user?

Yes, I, so my car. Th three years ago. So I'm in Boston and by again,

Yeah.

Right. Yeah.

So this episode, Was a result of, Almost a month now of. Trying to understand The outcomes of the election, which it's spring a lot of conversations around where we go next. Sellers you Johnny and. Sarah had a really interesting conversation the other night at a local bar. Maybe we could just start there. what did you guys chat about?

I think I don't, a lot of it was just about how. There's a better word than separated. But He silent. Yeah. Siloed as a even in Spokane. And how the. Blue liberal world often lives in a cerebral space. Has space in the cerebral space for the working class.

Yeah.

But I think that's hard to portray to the working class. Exactly. Feels nice.

the best example of that, that I can think of is. Nationally. The Biden and eventually Harris campaign talking about how good the economy was based on the legislation they passed. But the fact that didn't necessarily trickle down, especially to working class Americans and a lot of places. Was one of the things that's been diagnosed as a key to Harris's failure in the election. How does it manifest locally though?

This is Sarah. I think the hard part is. You might be able to like point to. Stocks or like the trend. But if people are spending. Like 200 bucks on groceries every week, like that. Isn't the same experience, right? So. If we are looking at things from too much of a macro level. And the individual stories of families and people who are just trying to get by. And. It was actually in a podcast I was listening to from. Marie. Houston, Kevin Perez. And her just talking about. How she is done. But often will. Not necessarily on party lines. And talking through like, people don't really care about what the spreadsheets look like for a company or for the nation.

Right.

Can't put food on the table. So I think really wanting. Folks in that more cerebral space to have. The understanding of what's happening on the ground. And how those things can really impact. Individual people in the community, especially based on where we live.

Yeah. So as you guys were having this conversation in the bar you ended up chatting with the bartender about this too. What happened there and how did he get pulled into the convo?

I think I was terrorizing him a little bit shocking. He. seemed really friendly, asked us some questions about, who we were and what we were doing. And I think based off of the vague answers we gave, he assumed that we all worked for the government. And We all had to be like no, not exactly. And also we were also like you as a person.

Yeah. You could hear bits of our conversation, but always the like, Most salacious part of a sentence. So. He was like infused by what we were talking about.

Yeah. After we got them to engage with little bit on city government stuff, I started the little shtick of do you know your city council rep you worked downtown, what's your experience? Because right now I hear like a lot of really loud voices about what downtown is like, but, the scope works down there. He is really friendly. And he starts telling us about how, he's not just a bartender. He actually owns the bar. He's, working his nightly shift. And even though he is ostensibly progressive and has lived in Spokane for most of his life. He too feels alienated from the actual system. Like he's never felt like he could just go down to a city council meeting and testify like that. Just didn't. Didn't strike him as an option for advocating for himself for sharing his experience. And then I think from there, Sarah and Johnny, and I started asking him more questions and then discussing Johnny's experience as somebody who also. Works downtown as a service industry professional.

What was that conversation like? Did he talk about how it's been for him. Running a bar like that downtown.

Not exactly but he did mention that this was one of his favorite bars when he was younger.

Oh and

we're not sharing the name of the bar or the owner, just to protect his identity, he didn't know we were going to be talking about him on the radio. But he said that it was like the bar that he grew up drinking in and he. Sentimentally attached to it and was then able to buy it later in his career. And I've been to that bar multiple other times and seen him working there. So I don't think it was like a one-off occasion.

Yeah.

That he just happened to be picking up a shift.

I might not be related, but as you can say that beyond silos in the way we think. Like the actual physical. The morning shifts night shifts. It really. Isolates you as a community. So within the street, I'll usually quite everyone knows each other. That's all you can really hang out with because you're working late at night. And then you go out. And you sleep in. And I mean, you're gonna be working, doing like a five o'clock city council.

Right.

Or any events at the library in the morning or afternoon? It's just not convenient at all.

Yeah, there's just not real cultural space. I mean in Spokane, but really most places for night shift workers or swing shift workers. It's really true. K, what's it like for you? you lived in Spokane for a while. You left for awhile, you came back. How did you find it changed? And how did you find your community? Connecting or not connecting around election stuff and just economic issues.

Oh, that's a big question. I mean, I think the first thing that struck me is just that Spokane has grown so much. Right. It's just construction. And everywhere. And when. When I left. I left. But brother behind. Cause he was going to. One of the colleges here. And current prices have. Just skyrocket. And that's part of why we moved back. Now he's living with us and we're combining, Income and stuff like that. Again. Because I think his red. Bye. Hundreds. A year. And so. That has been a challenge that I've been I'm sharing more and more through his friends. So like in terms of finding community, most of the folks that I used to hang out with, they've all left. A lot of my friends are now his friends and they're all younger. And just trying to find. Their space. And cost of living has just finished college. Yeah. Spokane so purple, similar to Dallas. I think, yeah. And that hasn't been a. An interesting contrast because. Dallas feels like Aiden much. Bigger version of Spokane.

Interesting.

I don't know how much that answers.

It does a little bit. Yeah. so you left the spokesman, what year?

This would

have been

End of 2018.

Yeah, you left during the. I mean, it was getting more expensive, but you left during the good rent times. And then came back what, like just a year ago.

Yeah, I came back just last year. When I first moved to Spokane. I was making 48,000. And I was paying for my brother's college. And our apartment together. Wow. So. I don't think that's possible anymore.

I would say not no. I mean, I was thinking there's also this generational thing, are we all millennia? Sellers is the Zoomer. everybody else is a millennial. I'm like the oldest possible millennial, I'm a gen X cusper. And I mean, I bought a house back in 2009 when it was cheaper to buy than rent and rent was cheap. And so that's the other disconnect like you guys are talking about, it used to be. pretty affordable to be young and, figuring things out. Working a service job going to school. And now it's just not anymore. And I don't even know if. Elder millennials really who maybe got the last vestiges of the nineties economy or the early two thousands economy realize how tough it's been for, younger folks, So did the conversation. That night at the bar. is there a sense that there needs to be like more of a welcoming in, or Like Johnny, do you feel like you just go lobby a council person for something to help you with your rent or something.

I think less of an accessibility. And more of what's the point? Sure you could go testify. Have your 62nd sign. Second. If you get

yeah.

But I think it's more impactful if. Uh, Council member comes into your space. You have an opportunity to talk to them there. think that's where I'm at.

We were talking about the political and he was like, wow. If I would have heard about that, that would have been something I would've gone to go hang out with politicians at a bar, get to ask them. Questions in a space that you are more comfortable with. And he also mentioned I think he said something about the informality of that environment would feel. A lot less Scary or unfamiliar, like just being able to have a beer and a pizza. And if you're not having a good time, you can just leave. Right. Where it feels weird to walk out of a city council meeting. And a different way.

Yeah.

Yeah. I think we were asking what are. The types of events like you would be interested in. Going to, or attending and bringing people. And. Maybe, or you remember this better than I do, but he said something along the lines of. he wouldn't necessarily host something because it would be perceived as political. Even though he himself is Pretty politically involved and like, think. A lot of things are coded. Political, even if they're not necessarily And I think like The separation between political and partisan. Has to be. Outlined. Sometimes so that people can feel more comfortable about it, because, I mean, if people are listening to this on Thanksgiving day and being. This gives them something to talk about at the dinner table. People are told to avoid conversations like these,

right.

And so it's hard to break that. Barrier that a lot of people hold where it's we don't talk about this kind of stuff.

Yeah.

I mean when I was pitching the political, one of the bars that was originally on my route, turned us down and said that. They did not want us to come because they were worried, not necessarily about us, but about their regulars, turning it into a big national political fight. And they said that. They'd already been having to tone down the. The Biden Trump talk has at that point, Biden hadn't dropped out. Oh

yeah, that's right.

And they didn't want to open that can't afford hymns or open themselves up to political, arguing in their bar.

our political differences are tearing our neighborhood bars apart. Sarah, You're an organizer. when you're organizing folks, how do you break through. These sorts of sentiments, they seem pretty pervasive. And I don't, it doesn't seem at least I don't hear. A lot of discussion around community or from a community organizing perspective of like how to entice people or what are the pre, preconditions that organizers find. R there's just a, there's a sort of an expectation again, maybe more in the. Capital L liberal spaces. And I includes, the traditional liberals, like maybe, moderate Republicans as well of a certain Stripe of around like voting is your duty. It's your civic duty. You should just do it, whether it means anything to you or not like a. My parents didn't even watch the news. They would do to flee vote every election cycle, but they weren't politically engaged. And It seems like How I grew up is become more and more common, And maybe, more at the national level than locally, because I feel like we're doing some good work organizing around things like, showing up at public meetings and that's one of the reasons range exists. But naturally the idea is like it's your duty to vote and then, whoever you elect, we'll take it from there. And that's clearly not resonating with people, right.

Yeah, I didn't get. Really. Centered around community. That should be first and foremost when people are talking about. Voting or civic engagement. And also not assuming everybody has the same knowledge because. Or education. Just isn't the greatest in terms of explaining how to combat the powers that be because. You can earn interest. And so talking to people about what matters to them. And like Johnny said, going to where they are is huge. And not necessarily trying to make community events or make messaging that can reach. the most people, but like genuinely hearing a community and speaking to them about the thing that matters to them. And Derek concerns. Is really important to like deep relational organizing. Having people bring. Friends. Loved ones to events. Talking to them about the issues that are important to them. So some folks. Might say that the economy is what's most important to them. So talking through The different. Things that were on the ballot, like the sales tax, like it seems pretty low. But it was a point, 1% increase. Right. But if you're someone who doesn't make a ton of money, that is a bigger hit on you than it does. On folks who are make a higher income,

right.

So I think just Boiling things down as much as possible, too. Language people understand because a lot of it is confusing on purpose. But I think. Then talking about things and how they're connected like, if you care about this issue. So for me, I purchased Washington. It's a lot of talking about reproductive rights. So if someone is passionate about abortion access, for example, We can obviously point to. The federal government and show how they impact. Some access to abortion. So we would talk about, President Supreme court. All those things, but then trickling it down so that people can understand how that same issue that they care deeply about is impacted at our local level. And being able to. talk to people. Aye. The perspective of the issues they care about less though. This is why you should vote blue no matter who type the thing.

Right.

Cause that's really not. An inspiring message. And I think even just like letting people not necessarily like vote for a candidate. And then still fill out the rest of their ballot. Like being able to tell people. rather than not voting at all, People can vote for the candidates or the issues that they really believe in. To just increase civic engagement and like knowing. How to be involved. And also knowing that interim. Is also so important. So Following. Politicians and candidates after they've been elected. And how do you continue to lobby them? Because once they are in office, once you got them into office, like you're their boss, right. They were creative,

theoretically. Yeah.

Yeah, theoretically. So how do we continue that pressure? And not just forget the promises they made. And hold them accountable to the things that you voted.

Yeah.

Yeah. And it's mostly just. Listening to people and like genuinely hearing what they're saying and not. Got flooding them and telling them they're wrong.

Right.

Because look at these charts.

K. What was your, did the folks in your friend group, your brother other family, friends. Did people by and large vote. Did they see it as a duty and. And did it, did they engage in other civic? Things like, public meetings for letter writing or other community organizing work.

I think they voted. Yep. Not all of them can vote. Like, you know, Something that I kept hearing from. It was how They logically understand, and that local races are important. Right. But at the same time, don't feel particularly. I mean, we've talked about engagement. Excite Lynn was something that constantly came up there's nothing inspiring or citing. And the sense that I got. From them. Was a lot of. a lot of disappointment. something that I constantly wonder is like, We seem to be looking for this. You. It has to be exciting. It has to be inspiring as stuff like that. And not maybe understanding that this is a slog. And it's the, the accountability part, right? Like even if you voted the person that you liked is an office and stuff like that. Yes, it's not the end of it. Right. It is a slog to constantly go back and be like, are things changing for the better, it's sometimes to search for it was. That's back sometimes it's two steps back. Yeah. It's frustrating. And. To me that seems but I mean, politics and Malaysia is really messy. It always feels like it's not really progressing. So. Maybe that's why the slog. Part. Is. frustrating for me, but I get it. I wonder if that is a lot more good moralizing for other people. Yeah. Especially if you've. If you've grown up. So say aspiring Obama era. Or Bernie's campaigns. I hear that a lot. That was very inspiring for them.

I was pretty struck by something. Johnny said. Drinks about how your colleagues, like they're politically informed maybe, or Have a sense of politics. But when it came to the national election, it just felt like regardless of who they cast their vote for, they'd still be coming into work and going home to their expensive apartments, and nothing materially would get better or worse. Like that kind of disillusionment of neither of these people care about the working class and regardless of my political involvement things are gonna stay roughly the same. Am I representing what you said correctly?

Yeah. And I was in response to it. K said, and that I recently learned about the term. Horseshoeing. So. I'm using that word a lot. I think that mindset. Even if you hold. Progressive values. If you get in that mindset of kind of nothing matters. And it's you against the world. I think. It's pretty easy to horseshoe into. I don't know.

Understand what I'm saying. That makes sense. I think so. I think. To that point. The more we feed into that. discouraging plays. The more isolated, you can feel the more, it feels I'm not going to vote or Yeah. If it really doesn't matter who I vote for, I'm going to vote for Trump or whoever is the most like. Out there, candidate. Yeah. It's like nothing matters. Anyway,

I go ahead. I guess I can't say this, but you can enter it up. There was one colleague whose colleague who was. Seemingly very progressive. But when I say things like I just want a president who like at least. You living life. Yeah.

Yeah. voting based on.

It's like trying to give back at your parents or something when you're literally, you're like I'm going to do this just to make you mad. You know? Like,

And do you feel like that's a, among the colleagues of yours that have historically been more progressive? was that. In some way, retaliatory against a national democratic party that hadn't actually delivered or. we're going to pivot in. to the second part of this here but we keep bringing up rent and just how expensive it is to live. As working people. Pretty much anywhere in America, certainly the west and certainly Spokane specifically. And the idea of engagement this is for everybody, like friends of yours who are struggling with rent and stuff like that. Are they aware It's illegal to do actual rent protections and rent control in this state. But the city council is trying to do things that make it a little harder to raise rent or to at least give people warning. Are people aware of that?

This is Luke popping in here for a second in the editing bay To demonstrate the length of the silence that came after this question. Searching for examples. Of government, not just doing something for working people. Which is step one, but then. Letting people know that it's actually happening, which is pretty important

For context. We're shaking our heads because. No, I don't. I know like my friends are not aware of it. Yeah. It's definitely new.

Yeah.

Of mine who know are people who are also in. The like political landscape or law students that can zag. So learning about. The rights that they should have.

Yeah.

But overwhelmingly, I would say. No. Yeah.

I live with three other renters and none of them knew until I jokingly told them oh, we're coming up on December. We haven't gotten the six month rent raise notice from our landlord. Count those days down. And they had no idea what I was talking about. talked to another journalist in town who said that he got a rat race from his landlord. He's on a month to month lease. And he got a communication from his landlord that was like, we're raising your rent next month. And he emailed them back and was like, no, you're not actually here's the SMC. But it says that you have to give me a six months notice before you raise my rent. And they immediately paved. But I think most people don't know that's a tool that they have in their pocket. And only if you're somebody who literally Cover city council meetings or engages with politics on a daily basis, local politics on a daily basis, you are not going to know that.

And so as you're like the personal Walter Cronkite for your roommates, right. You literally read the news to them.

Yes. And then also more practical stuff. The other day, one of them texted me and was like, there's this really big truck parked outside of our house. And I'm worried they're going to shut our intersection down for like road repairs. And I was able to send them the city website that's shows where city construction is happening. It'd be like, I'm too busy, but check this list for intersections. Not on it. You're fine to be parked where you are. Just little stuff like that. I now have become the local expert for my 20 something year old gen Z, friends who do not want to pick up a newspaper. Yeah.

So whereabouts are you go into this little brainstorming session about a. Tool that came out of this conversation. And the reporting errands been doing around these new rent control adjacent. Things that the city council has been passing since earlier this year, right. So

there was. In 2023, it was passed by the previous council that required landlords to register their rental units and to get business licenses. But that's legislation didn't really have any teeth in it besides a pretty small fine, right. And so this current 2024 batch of council members have amended that old law from 2023 to include. Uh, Penalty of if you do not follow these restrictions, If you don't get your business license, if you don't register units, you actually can't raise rent or evict tenants until you have complied with the legislation. And then there was a second piece. Passed earlier this year that said that landlords cannot raise your rent without giving you six months notice or raise your rent by more than 3%. If they're raising it by $50. That's okay. But if they're going to give a big spike and rent, they have to give you notice. So that was passed earlier this year.

And so you left the conversation the other night sellers saying, Hey, can we host a party? As range that helps. Get people to come and look up whether they're landlord. is part of the registry has filed his or her there. Business license. I mean, this was the thing that we realized when the initial law was passed earlier this year, that. A lot of landlords don't visit. I mean, these are businesses, right? this is an investment property. but A lot of landlords we heard from that were against this that very first law requiring registry. I didn't even have business licenses, which kind of blew my mind. And I feel like I'm old. So I've seen a lot of surprising things. It was really shocking to me, the number of landlords Who had a sense of entitlement about not needing a business license.

Yeah, there was a lot of that at the council testimony. But yeah, I left that conversation with Johnny and the bartender and Sarah just being like, we should throw a party. Where you can just show up, get free food. And we will tell you if your landlord can raise your rent or not. Give people resources to advocate for themselves.

Right. I want to do that party. I also, and this is why. Kai is with us here. when you told me this story sellers, I immediately thought we should try to build a web tool that could do the same thing. So people can't come to the party. Or, people can share this among their friends and see if we can build something that would just allow people at a glance and much easier than the city site. We don't have to get into how hard it is to search the city's website. I failed at it earlier today. Gosh, it's

so hard.

Impossible Cause you have to look up to the different places. So the law that was recently passed, said that. If you're a landlord who it hasn't. Created a business license for your rental business. Or you haven't Put your individual rental units on the rental registry. If either of those, you haven't done. You're not allowed to raise rent at all. And then that compounds with the previous law that you have to give people six months notice. So the idea would be that this sort of a tool could at least give folks who are renting. Way to put off a rent raise that might make them more housing and secure. And if we could build something like that and get it out to everybody, that would be a pretty cool thing. And I guess this is me. Advocating for. The ranges idea here, but one of the things that you guys were mentioning about. Folks coming into. Other people's spaces. So, like you were saying Politicians showing up to political sellers and Johnny, you were talking about your colleagues being like, why don't. politicians come into our place of work, where we're comfortable. I've heard that in a lot of different spaces over the years in different contexts. I wonder if that's true of journalism too. That. Newsrooms and maybe especially range has to demonstrate. They, one of the reasons I want to build this tool is it feels like it's a really tangible example and that will take people like five minutes. To be like, what is what's range about? Oh, it's about helping you get the information you need to live the life you wanna live or, fight back against. In injustices. Or things that'll make your life more difficult. It feels like actually building a tool or even hosting the party. Like you're talking about sellers. Coming into a conceptual space of Hey, you're a renter and you're constantly living in fear of your rent being raised. Here's a tool that can help you fight back. Is that a meaningful political intervention that would get your friends to either be interested in. Following along with some of the stuff that's been happening politically in Spokane and, or get politically active.

I think it's a cool idea. And I'm really excited about it. I think the marketing of it would need to be thought through. And I don't know if I have anything useful to say about that. But my one request. Would be that like, if. Even putting information. If give these results and then if there could be a. To call them. And there's like a form document, like an example letter. I'm like something you can send to your landlord or something. I'm like for people who maybe don't speak English, like how can you present this? Or if you're really shy, And that's his intimidating to go up against authority and people who are housing you.

Yeah.

even if I knew all the laws and all my rights. What's my, what can I do? Small claims court. I'm not going to do that. I'm so desperate, but that's going to cost money I'll just let them screw me over. I'm not doing that.

Those are awesome. Thoughts, Johnny. do you think? something like this. could move the needle in terms of getting people engaged.

Yes. But also. I think. More importantly, it's just a really practical, necessary tool.

Yeah.

And even if. People don't get more engaged. It's the right thing to do, I think,

That's what I was thinking too, is sometimes we, especially in spaces where. You have grant funds or there's something that we have to tied to a tool or a program or product recreate or resource. And then there's always that tie in where it's like, And then this will happen. And sometimes I feel like our expectations are very specific to one aspect of the thing that we're doing, not the thing itself.

Yeah.

And so. I think. With the tool. even if people use it and then they're Forget. Who ranges. I think just being able to. Hold space for those people who are going to use a tool and be really grateful, even if you never know. Right.

I really resonated with what Johnny said, this is a tiny bit of a tangent, but I've been following national party politics. Around transgender issues and there's this big conversation going on right now about What do we win votes or would it be more effective if we left trans people hanging? If we stopped advocating for gender neutral bathrooms and rights for trans people, and I feel like the question should maybe be more. What is the right thing to do? What is the thing that benefits people, regardless of whether it wins votes or attention? I think offering people a tangible benefit and commitment to values and mission. Hopefully that will result in brand engagement and like political investment. And, maybe at the end of the day, like boats or membership, But really, it makes it clear who we are and what we stand for. And it's doing the right thing to do the right thing.

right. Did you have any thoughts? Cut.

I. I've been a fan of range and all the world. They all do. And I try to help as much as I can. Because there, there is a need, right? For. For the Spokane region for. These kinds of space and thought and work. It would be nice if things were always viewed. So transactionally. Whether it's folding or with, the labor that we put into to things. And. Back to the tool. Building on Johnny's idea of Automated Here's the letter. Here's how you set it or a button. You should just click out of sense. But also after that Explaining to people. What's the next step that could happen, right? You might shoot back. You might not, if you need more resources, here's where you go. If you hear back and it's terrifying because they're saying a bunch of mean things about you or threatening you like. Yes you are. People you should reach out to. Right, right. Because sometimes there are these tools where. It just kinda goes off and then you're like, oh, okay. I'm sitting here. What's that?

Totally. Let's get into it. let's start with where Johnny and work high, started what would a perfect tool like this or a the best possible tool we could build? Look like it would. Allow you to easily put in the address of where you live and, The name of your landlord or the business that you rent from and get this basic bit of information of whether they're on the registry, whether they have a business license or not. And then, sellers you kind of ran through this. When you were talking about this law, you said SMC ball, all blah. SMC is the, smoke in municipal code? It's the book of laws that govern stuff in Spokane specifically. I don't think most people know what SMC means. And so having something that's Hey, just so you know, landlord, you aren't on the rent and rental registry. so raising my rent would be a violation of this law. And also, even if you get on the registry, you have to give me six months notice from this date that you're telling me, you're going to raise my rent per this other SMC. In order for you to be legally allowed to raise my rent. So that's step one. And like you were saying, Johnny, It's idea of like just the form letter could just be copy and paste so you can email this or print it out and send it. That's step one. And then you're what you're talking about. Ty. It's okay well, What if that isn't enough? Like you were saying. Sellers or their colleague in journalism. Did that to their landlord, the landlord immediately backed down. Okay. That's maybe the Best outcome for this scenario. What if the landlord doesn't back down or what if you do have to go to small claims court to your point, Johnny Fisk, if this escalates Yeah. Basically like an explainer, you're saying hi, to be like, okay, here's step one. it's almost like a choose your own adventure if your landlord backs down cool. You've got six months either. Figure out a new living situation or to get a new job to help you afford that rent or pick up more hours at work. If that doesn't work, then here are the other potential recourses. What else could we add to this that would help.

I think city council contact info, because I've seen a couple of times at council where somebody living in a district comes with a really specific problem and is Hey, this is happening to me. And council members have stepped in to either solve that problem or email somebody, and just having that weights of an elected official behind you. Can be pretty important. Also, they don't always get to hear when a policy that they've approved is working. Usually they only hear when it's not working or if somebody has an issue. With it. So I'd like to include something end. I mean, this is part of the, choose your own adventure too. If your landlord doesn't back down, you told us your address. That means that we now know you're in council district one. Here's your council members. Here's their contact info. Here's a letter to send to your council members. That's Hey mom. Allaying SMC, whatever. What can I do about that? Or I thought she'd want to know, because this is your district. Or if your landlord does back down you can still send an email. That's like, Hey, thank you for passing this law. It helped me get an extra six months of time. I really appreciate that. The kind of gives them that feedback about whether what they were doing is working or not.

For sure. Yeah. And that would be a pretty easy thing to pull off, I think again, not a coder, but that would be pretty doable. And I think sending that email and saying I need help I think you'd get good outcomes from that. Or, Hey, thanks for doing this. This really helped me keep my, housing. Could be the sort of positive interaction that leads to more engagement over time. Right? I mean, am I fully myself to think that if you get a good response, you might, it might lead you to do it again.

Yeah. I think that is. A good way of thinking of, but I think also like, How council currently gets a lot of its feedback is through neighborhood councils.

Right?

The issue with those is they're not often filled with people who look like me. Or people who are. working multiple jobs yeah. People who

work late, you were talking about Johnny people with young kids who don't have ready access to, daycare and stuff. They're just so many roadblocks to participation in things like neighborhood councils. Yeah.

Yeah. So I think Really trying to show. Council members and other people who are making the laws that like that isn't an accurate reflection of the full district.

Yeah.

And each. It has so many neighborhoods and each one are so different. Like we are both district one. I live. In BMS. So just outside of Logan. And before Hillier,

right.

And she lives downtown. very different experiences and oftentimes down to. Isn't considered a neighborhood. legit is right. Right. So I think the hard part is. Even though it's nice that we only have three districts. There's so many different types of communities in each one. Right? So. Experience. Isn't always going to be relayed back to council. So how do we collect that data?

Yeah.

And make sure that. Data points are accurately representing the individual experiences of people in the community.

That is a. Perfect segue to my next question, which was there's the things that we need to provide the folks that would be using this tool and this, all this information would be. Optional for people to add, I was wondering CA. what are some data points that you would want to know as a journalist around like optional stuff for people to add in? I was thinking. how long have you lived, where you live? What was the rent when you started what's rent right now and what are what's? What are they trying to raise it to would be a really fascinating data point. And again, we would make this all optional for people, but I would really want to know. I mean, I've got a, I've got a a family member who's on a fixed income recently retired, but working class, her whole life who. Got affordable relatively affordable. An apartment. On the south hill by target. And is struggling to pay her rent and Is like the thousandth person on the list for vouchers and it's, she even lives in a complex that could, that accepts vouchers. And it's just very unlikely that she's going to get it. And so, What are some other pieces and she's lived there for a while, right? So it's people aren't becoming precariously housed. From a drastic change in circumstances, it's just like the water's slowly turning up and the frogs are boiling a little bit in some cases. So What are the things that you would want to know? Or you would be even willing to offer as a renter that you think would be. Helpful for people to understand what it's like to be renting in 2024. In Spokane.

In terms of data that they're entering. And I'm not sure this would be information they would want to track. Just because, Privacy reasons. Stuff like that but knowing the number of bedrooms they're renting. That's important.

Right.

Listening to you talk like something came up to mind, right? Like there, there's always this huge information asymmetry. When it comes to renting. And buying houses and stuff like that. Yeah. Right. Like we rely on, apartments.com cylinder con. It's stuff like that. But years ago I worked at a different news organization. We have access to CoStar. Which. If y'all have not used it before it has. Commercial real estate data. And. And all that jazz, you can track it by zip, by neighborhood. You can find. The actual owner of a building is instead of just, It could be

the random MOC B. Sorry. Like of the random, like some nameless LLC that it's actually under. Yeah.

Yup. Yup. And you can find historical information and all that jazz and. CoStar. Prides itself. If I remember correctly on helping people maximize rent. Right. Whether it's commercial or

residential. Maximize their rent. Right. yes. Yeah. Yeah.

Yep. So, so if you're a business, you have access to those information, like inflammation like that. Exists out there, but it's not something. A regular person can get access to. If it becomes so hard for you to advocate for yourself. Even if somebody registers to business and stuff like that, they raise it by 200 bucks and they do. You don't know if that is. Extreme cause you can't see the unit right next door. And. I think that is a frustrating part. Like working on the data side is there's a lot of it out there, but there is such a high. Financial barrier for people to get access to.

Right.

So. It's hard for. People to advocate for themselves. Even if we create a forum for people to ensure that data, it is still going to be. It's not going to be as strong as. What's already out there.

Yeah. It would be. And this would be in a world where we somehow got a couple thousand people to use this tool or something. It would be pretty amazing. So we would have zip code data In neighborhood data, we would be able to anonymize. This would be like, Hey yeah, rents are. We've I saw a thing that said in, in Spokane county, the average one bedroom apartment is like 1100 bucks or something of that effect. And, but how does that break down neighborhood by neighborhood? Like you were saying. Johnny and Sarah need to leave in a second before y'all go, the final thing I wanted to ask about this tool is if we were to make this, or if we are going to try to make this once with once it's ready. How do we get this in front of people? What are the lanes we should use to try to, obviously we would, we'd send it out in the range newsletter, but that only goes to 5,500 people right now. So what would we do to. Try to get this in front of every renter in Spokane.

I feel it a lot, so good job. Thank you. I think like sometimes like old. Old school. I'm going to put that in quotes more so you see it? In larger cities. But being able to like flier on poles,

physically flyering. Yeah.

Deeply firing, there's so many times. We're like walking by something and being like, cool. That's funny. And oftentimes in businesses, like when you asked the flyer, it's always in a weird place, so then it sometimes doesn't feel effective. So I think just like knowing where community boards are and where you can put it in the window, or maybe even asking a business, if you can put it. Like a little thing on the cash register, like around there. I think like knowing which businesses are cool with that. Yeah. And especially with. Hopefully all of them have experienced what it's like to be a renter and how difficult it is to like, no. What anything is. Into the humanity of just listen. Like we need to get the word out. This is a really great tool. This isn't partisan. And you don't need to pitch it to anyone. It's just like having this information out there.

Yeah.

And I think if we did something like a party. Like habit. Things that are social events where people don't have to give anything or do anything. They can just be there. And you're just like, great. This is our launch party for this. And here's the information, but that's it like take it or leave it type of thing. And I feel like in Spokane, it's been very word of mouth. So like the more people feel like, oh, this helped me like the Mo the more they're going to talk about it with their friends or on social media. And. And telling their friends via social media, we'll have. Higher impact then coming from a publication,

yeah.

So I think that using multiple ways. And. Doing so in a way that understands the different lifestyles people live. And for not everyone is going to be. At an event. At 3:00 PM.

Right. Yeah,

right. Or like even after work hours since work hours, but very different for each person. So. I think just being able to think about events that like. You would have wanted to go to. As a young person, or as someone who like was a renter or working multiple jobs, like what would get you. To like. Something else on your plate. Pretty full. I can see. Those being. Like fun opportunities. I like fun bars popping up.

Yeah. Yeah, maybe we could do like a multiple little, engagements at different bars around the city. Reserve obviously is a pretty working class bar. PJ's other, I mean, our pub crawl bars would probably be a minimal to that. I mean.

Bar's already have so much programming, like going to trivia night. Packed and just being like, can I just make a quick announcement?

And

seeing what they say. I think you using the. subcultures that already exist using the infrastructure that already exists. And meeting people where they're already at. And like the plans that they already have. And just being able to let them know of this opportunity to use this resource. But not necessarily having to put a huge workload on you or sellers to like, create this whole. It's funny a lot of time. I think using the resources that already exist. Awesome.

I was thinking like, this is totally the sort of thing my mom would have sent to me if she would have seen it. Right. So I think there's a potentially a generational thing here too, where it's If you read range and you own your home, you probably know a renter, I guess. Do you feel, I mean, Johnny's the only. The renter left on the call right now, I think. But is this the sort of thing you would pass off to a friend who's a renter or.

Yeah, I. I'm trying to imagine how you get this into The break room. Franz bakery,

yeah. Like those big kind of working class employers. Yeah.

And I don't know exactly how you do it, but I feel like it's something that will, if you can. I just start it with a big group of people. Like word of mouth. I mean, who wouldn't want to share that?

Yeah.

And I think also like then showing the tangible thing that it does. So. Right. You wouldn't mind see this tool and be like, cool, but not necessarily like compute in their mind what it means for their paycheck or like what it means for near costs. So I think even if it's. Sellers or Johnny or whoever. Could be like, this is, it helped me to save X amount of money. Or it prevented my rent from increasing for 120 days or whatever.

Yeah.

I think having something that people can visually see and get a lot of information really quick.

Yeah.

I would prioritize that because it's two minutes of your time and you could potentially save X amount of money.

Yeah. At least you have put off here. See a few. Yep. Put off your rent going up for six months even. Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. I want to let, y'all go. We're a little bit over, but closing thoughts, any sort of feelings of hope, fear, trepidation, not necessarily tied to rent, but just the world in general. We've. We're about a month out from the election we're in this holiday season, that's complicated for folks, but it is a general rule. This is the beginning of the time that we reflect in America, starts now and goes through new years. Do you guys have any closing thoughts around the year to come in the year that's been and.

I feel like. Isolation. Fear. Issues.

Yeah.

Things like this. I like this. Like these practical tools. And my grade as an entity, I'm part of starting this. Really long game. Building community and A tiny thing of someone. Not any toy about their rent. A whole year or something. I mean, you can care about something else,

right?

Or for someone else? Starting here is exciting. Right. Yeah.

That's a really, that's a really interesting point. We, you mentioned that earlier and I'm glad you came back to it. The idea of we have a finite amount of time and the more we have to work to just put food on the table, the less time we have to do the sort of organizing work that you spend your. Your day is doing Sarah. And it's It is that kind of austerity and a misery ration that becomes a negative cycle, discouraging engagement. And so. Can we the. The question, I guess, that we've been asking this whole episode is can we create a positive cycle that leads to greater engagement? And it sounds like Johnny you're saying that. Tiny little things that help people get their time back and give them. Opportunities. Don't worry less about survival so if you're worried less about surviving, you can start thinking about how to thrive. As a community. Yeah. Yeah. Sarah Kay.

Yeah, I think for me, it's. Really trying to be careful from the narrative center happening. And the news, or even like in conversations, especially with like big liberals. I'm demonizing. Comes to quarters or demonizing the people of color who voted Republican or whatever.

Yeah.

I think what. Has really became clear from the election is how divided people feel. And so. I think. Us. Awesome. I include myself in the big L liberal, because being an organizer for a reproductive freedom organization probably squarely puts me in that. And I think remembering. Y. People have. This disdain for the status quo right now and how we can. Like really address what they're experiencing. And even though. Who might be. Like. Liberal or progressive, but don't necessarily. Do the stuff. That sometimes comes after your belief. Not treating them differently or holding grudges against them. 'cause I feel like we waste. Our precious time. Doing that type of arguing, instead of building the coalition, we need to succeed. So I think reminding myself that. It's along movement. It's really important. And I'm joking.

Yeah. this is what worker movements have always done, right? Like money is power. Power is power. People are power and the way that mass movements of workers have always built power is through solidarity. It's not with money. It's not with. State power it's with the power of coalitions. And so that was one of the things that was, aside from the outcome of the election who actually got elected. The thing that I think was most. Really just brutally heartbreaking for me was seeing folks that should be in solidarity with each other, tearing each other apart and being like, how dare you vote this way? How dare you vote this other way? And that to me, just. it's taken me almost a month even think about how to put it into words. It was so, Just really sad. To me. And so I'm thinking about what part range can play going into 2025. Two. Repair those wounds and encourage solidarity in that positive cyclical sense. I don't know, maybe this can be one small step toward that. And that's what I'd be hopeful for. What about you, Kyle? You be the last word.

I don't know if I have any, big, deep thoughts other than, checking on your friends. Call them. I think that's what I've been doing is just trying to. Whenever I think of someone just be like, Hey. Let's do. Yeah. 'cause I think that's a good way to revive. Yourself and others that you're. Th the community that you find and the community that you build. As to start somewhere. So. Yeah.

So these are not to be political conversations either. It could be going to. Watch a basketball game at a bar with your buddies or whatever, or just being, going to a bar and. Antagonizing a bartender until they have a conversation with you.

Exactly. It's a great tool. Or going to a bar and watching. He liked to WWE NBA finals. One of the bars. And other people who participated, who were like, oh, this is so fun. I didn't know about this or whatever. Just being able to create those spaces that. Allow us to have that third space.

Yeah.

It's not home. It's not work. It's that third.

And it definitely isn't social media, right. Yeah. Yep.

Yeah. I think dining market spaces for.

Yeah. All right. Y'all we are well over time. I'm going to have to cut the heck out of this, but thank you so much for your time. Enjoy the long weekend and next time you go antagonize bartenders. I want to invite. I met Titus.

In response.

Yeah. All right. Y'all.

Okay.

Bye

bye. Thanks everyone. Alright, thanks for tuning into our experimental prerecorded. Brainstorming about how to help the working class of Spokane edition of

Free range.

Whether you're celebrating the holiday today or not. I hope you see friends. I hope you see family. I hope you get some rest. I hope you do the things. That we all need to do to feel human, especially in times like these. This has been free range. I'm Luke Baumgarten thanks to my co-host Aaron Sellers. Thanks to Kai, Johnny and Sarah for talking to us. See you next week.