I would love for you to talk about why, you know, African American people should vote for you based on your record. And then she, she spit out all the things that he said Right. She didn't make nothing up. That's right He said all right record everybody got it, right? What does he do? Because she's strong She's called holding them accountable to what he said She's knowledgeable. She's intelligent, right? What a nasty question. Okay. We'll discuss race and how it plays a factor and how we didn't even talk about this topic because we were afraid.

A Black Executive Perspective.

Welcome to a Black Executive Perspective podcast, a safe space where we discuss all matters related to race, especially race in corporate America. I'm your host, Tony Tidbit.

And I'm your co host, Chris P. Reed.

And again, we are live at the University of New Haven, 88. 7. On that, Richter Dial, it shakes up and down, and we want to thank them for hosting the Black Executive Perspective Podcast again today, and we're hoping everyone, all the students are having a great summer. Go Chargers!

And we also have to remember to thank our partners at CodeM Magazine, whose mission is saving the Black family by first saving the Black man. That is CodeM Magazine, 2Ms. Codedmagazine. com. Check them out.

That's right. Check them out and check this out today. Chris and I are going to pick back up on BEP insights, navigating, navigating today's top headlines. We're going to dive in to some topics that have happened over the last couple of weeks, give our perspective on it. Um, we're going to have a little banter, go back and forth, share some insights, what we think this is not something we rehearsed. You know, we just both speaking, you know, we're riffing and exactly our opinions on these issues and we hope. Uh, based on discussing these issues that, um, there's, uh, you guys get a lot out of it, at least from our perspective. And that's the goal. And obviously what we're looking for you to do is go to our website and give us your feedback. And if you disagree or you have some other, uh, you have a point of view that you want to share. Don't hesitate to do that. Cause we're going to be doing this at least once at least a couple of times a month, because we want to keep you keep up to date on what's going on and what BEP's Perspective is on these issues. All right. So, but my, my brother, anything you want to add to that?

No, just so you know, keep us honest and keep us moving, you know?

All right. So keeping us moving. Are you ready to talk about it?

Absolutely. That's good. All right,

my brother, let's talk about it.

So, so the first thing, and this is, this is hot right now in them streets, right? It's the, and we're going to expand this appropriately. And it is the concept of, uh, former President Trump showing up to, uh, NABJ, uh, the National Association of Black Journalists. And, and it was, it was a kind gesture for him to do so and put himself in that situation, but it went left damn near immediately. And, um, you know, some of the undertones. So a lot of people, when you talk about him, talks about the undertones and the things that are, are said beyond the words. And, uh, some of it came off as misogynist. Some of it came off as elitist. Some of it came off as possibly racist, you know, it depends on what seat you sit in that you felt like some of these things were going on and it was a lot of things that was said and we don't have the time right now to really unravel all of it, you know, piece by piece, but the piece that I really wanted to speak about and that's stuck in my cross, so to speak, was the concept of, uh, as far as he was, and I, I can't hold him unfortunately, so I'll paraphrase and you'll understand where I'm coming from with this as far as he was concerned, Kamala Harris or Kamala or whatever. He'd like to call her whenever he feels like it to not be able to remember something and want to be president shouldn't coincide, but you can't remember a name, especially if you get your chief, uh, adversary. That's interesting. So it's a little childish, but moral of the story is. He said that he was under the impression from what he knew of her, that she had been Asian all these years. And then all of a sudden she woke up one day and was black. Now this comes on the tail of him saying something about black jobs. And so his identification of blackness is a concern for me. And I understand that we have a history of our own identification of black. Let's think about school days, right? The movie school days, long time ago. Yeah. But, in the concept of And wannabes! That's right! But, you know, we kind of throw it off to the side, that it's something said in jest, or it's something said out of ignorance, maybe. It's really something serious, as far as what is blackness. What is prescribed or identified as blackness and is something we should even be concerned about or say she should be concerned about running for the highest office in the land. So,

yeah, my friend, I mean, look again, you said a lot and I, I lost cause I was going to ask you something. Then I got into the school days and want to be, and I forgot, so I forgot what I was going to say. So here's the thing, right? And let's back up a little bit because I think. You know, one of the things is that first, the big thing was before he even got there, should he had, should they have, uh, given him an invitation to come. Okay. As you said, national association, black journalists, um, you know, this is something I guess they do on a yearly basis and to be fair, he is there. You, when you have people running for president. You definitely want them to come right now. There was a lot of backlash because of the issues you just brought up, uh, him attacking people. He, he, he was just, in my opinion, he was who he is. Okay. Absolutely. And so, so he didn't do nothing that, um, I'm shocked that because we've seen this before, right? Just to be fair, right? And so they should have known this. That he was going to come and then he wasn't going to follow the rules. He was going to do his own thing, right? Now, I do feel that, and so people were like, they shouldn't have invited him, blah, blah, blah. I, I disagree with that. I think, um, when you have president, people running for president, um, this is an opportunity. For them to talk specifically to that audience and explain why that audience should vote for them, what they're going to do for that audience, regardless of you like the person or not, this is that person's opportunity, right to, uh, engage and speak directly to them. If you don't invite them, then you basically open yourself up, like. You know what? We ain't inviting him. And then he can immediately or she can immediately say, they're not being fair to me, this group. I just think you do that, right? Now, all that being said, he did what he was going to do, right? And, and, and to be fair, and I'm just saying it from my point of view, um, he had an opportunity to speak and let, Uh, this audience know why, why, why they should vote for him. All right. Well, guess what? He doesn't do that. He had an opportunity to put his record on the things that he's accomplished before, the things that he's looking to accomplish in the next four years. He could have spoke directly to the issues, right? This was his opportunity. He didn't take advantage on it. So to be honest, that's on him. That's not on the organization. They did what they were supposed to. Now, if they're shocked that he went off, I don't see how he's shocked because he's doing, he does this all the time. And here's the thing. Let's go right to what you talk about the blackness, right? Is that shocking that he said that

it, you know, it's not shocking that, you know, he thinks that and says that, but yeah, but hold on CC. There you go.

He can't help them. So I'm saying he go in there and this is why some, you know, his supporters like him because he's saying what they've been thinking and they haven't been, they felt that they had handcuffs and they couldn't say, you know, Okay. So, so the bottom line is he is, he does have racial problems that shows you, see, here's the thing, man, you know, and we all been in situations where, um, you know, you have people at work or in case maybe, and they shaking your hand and they're, they're, you know, being cordial to you and chatting. And then when they get a couple of drinks in them, or you see them later on, they're saying stuff, how they really feel. Okay. And, and to me, that's who Trump is and, and, and what the bottom line is, we were, we're now five years, excuse me, uh, what is this? We're eight years into this. He's done a lot of things, buddy. He talked about these crummy, he didn't want people coming from, um, what these, these crummy countries when it was all the black countries, right? He's used the, and I remember what was her name was, she was kind of crazy to Amoroso, um, who he led in his administration, knowing that she was all for herself anyway. All right. But if you tell them that you love them and that you think highly from, He lets you in. All right. That's his, his thing is all about, Hey, show me, tell me you love me. I'll, I'll, I'll do stuff for you. Right. But then when she was there, didn't she go with a tape recorder or, or had some type of recording device and was like, found out that he said the N word and stuff. Remember that? All right. So, so how is this shocking? Okay. To me, it ain't shocking. What's appalling is he had the opportunity, the organization, Gave him an opportunity to speak. He could have changed all that by sitting down and saying, Hey, I disagree with her on economic issues. I disagree with her on foreign policy. I disagree with her. He couldn't do that. He was just being who he is. That's my thought.

But you know, you talk about this consistently. I'll give you full credit about someone who has the opportunity to unite, but chooses to be divisive. And. The, the platform, the platform, he was campaigning. This is campaigning, right? Correct. He was campaigning and he's campaigning on being divisive. So if you're voting, you're voting for a platform or a campaign of a lack of union. Either I, I choose not to call it the United States as opposed to, I just call it the States of America because there's nothing that's going on that makes it seem like we're amply United. And this is just another example, but I think that unknowingly he touched the nerve in the black community when he starts to identify things as black things or question someone's blackness. Buddy,

when has he not done that? So here's the thing. And again, I remember this, um, remember Bryant Gumbel? Okay. I can't read. This was late eighties, early nineties. They had did this thing on NBC and Bryant Gumbel was the host. Okay. And they were talking about race in America. Spike Lee was on it. All right. This is, I think this is when Spike Lee, uh, uh, directed the movie. Do the right thing. All right, I, I, I, I could be wrong. Right. And, and the bottom line is, and so, uh, Bryant Gumble was, was, you know, had different people on and talk about their thoughts of race in America. One of the people on the show was Donald Trump. Okay. A young Donald Trump. I'm talking to this 91, 92, this, this something, this is why, right. And then, um, you know what Donald Trump said? And Spike Lee was right there. He said, I, and I forget how the question was phrased. So I, I don't want to say, but I remember him saying, if, um, I, if what did he say? And I could be wrong, Nicole. I mean, Noel, I wish you would look it up. He said, um, I think Bryant Gumbel asked him the question. Um, and I don't want to say it that way. Cause I could be wrong. I thought it was, um, would you, uh, if you were starting a career, would you rather be black or white? Right. And Donald Trump said, I rather be black. All right. Something to that effect. Right. And Spike Lee was like, he said, I can't believe he said that. Okay. So in other words, he was like, black people have advantage if I could start. And again, I, I, I, I, I don't want to say something that's not a hundred percent right. Okay. Cause I forget factually correct. But I remember him being on that show. We'll look it up. Okay. So my point is, if you look at his whole history, okay. Everything. He's always had race racial issues. Why would he has never changed. He, he was on, um, what was the, the TV show on NBC? Uh, well, he was re taping. I forget what the dude and he was talking about grabbing women by the genitals and stuff of that nature, right? So stop. And then, and then when he came out. When it came out, what type of apology did he get? Yeah, I did it. It was locker room talk. All right. But guess what? I'm going to talk about what Clinton did. No remorse. The dude got fired. The dude got let go. And the man got fired. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Right? So, so, how you, I'm not shocked. All right? I, I, I hear you. I, I hear you. But I, I, I'm not shocked, buddy.

I think, Tony, at some point in time, we have to dress for the occasion. You know what I'm saying? There's certain, like, you can't go to the country club in hoop and shorts and a jersey. And think that they're going to let, give you access. I don't care what color you are. That's not a racial thing. That's a formal protocol for entry. And at this point in time, there should be formal protocols for entry to the highest office in the land, and he should be held accountable to dress for the occasion. He's not dressing for the occasion, Tony, and I can't be quiet or act like that's just him being him or boys being boys or rednecks being rednecks like at some point in time. We can't absolve these things by saying, oh, well, I'm desensitized to it because it's happened so frequently. I don't know how many times you've been slapped in the face, but there's never a number where you like, you know what people just slap me. So like that's

how

that

works. So, but see, Chris, I hear you and I'm, and again, I'm not desensitized to it. His base is desensitized to, all right. See, at the end of the day, who's put him up to be at this level to run for president. It's not me and you. All right. It ain't, it's his people. That's behind him. That's. You said the other day, right, about people making excuses for, you know, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, mental issues, right? Well, this is what he really means. All right. And stuff of that nature, right? That's what they do. So that emboldens him. To do that. Okay. And, and so, so it's not being number one, let me just be clear. I agree with you that you, how can you hold somebody accountable that they won't let you hold them accountable? All right. Here's the other dynamic to the, uh, I'll add on to what you're saying. And, and, and this is another thing, another one of his, um, um, um, his areas in terms of how he deals with women. Okay. If there's a strong woman that asks strong questions, he can't deal with that. If you remember the reporter, I think she was from ABC news and she came right out the gate. Mr. Trump, appreciate you coming here, blah, blah, blah. You have treated, you have said stuff in the past about black women. Number one, she said, I would love for you to talk about why, you know, African American people should vote for you based on your record. And then she, she spit out. All the things that he said he did, right? She didn't make nothing up. He said, all right, record, everybody got it, right? What does he do? Because she's strong. She's called holding them accountable to what he said. She's knowledgeable. She's intelligent, right? What a nasty question. Okay. Okay. You see him saying so he can't deal with and he's done this a million times, right? He can't deal with so. Part of you, if you invite them, you should understand he got, that's going to happen. Think about for a second, bro. Um, I don't want to use that example. That's not a good example, but if you, if you, you can't take a ghetto person and invite them to a black, a black, a black tie affair, all right, you can't because the bottom line is they're going to be who they are. You can try to put clothes on them all you want to. Okay. They're going to be who they are right off the bat. And then you can't say, Oh, I thought he was going to change. I thought he was going to rise to the occasion because we put a black tie on him. Right? No, he is who he is.

The issue with this Tony is. What you just gave me was a no win situation because you have to invite him because of the position you have and if you don't invite him because of who he is, then, and that's the definition of tyranny. That's the definition of a tyrant when there is no, when there is no recourse that's salvageable and civil for a civilized society, no matter what you do. You're wrong. No matter what you say, it's dumb. No matter what is going on. You're being demonized and demeaned. If I can't win, but I have to play. And that's the problem. Like you said, we have to play it. So what, what, what is there to do? So here,

you know what there's a new vote. Okay. See, see, you vote. That's how you win. You vote. All right. Is that some person that you want to be leader, a leader of our country? Okay. That acts like that, that treats women like that, who, when you ask them tough questions, they get mad and they attack you, right? That's how you win. You vote. And that's my point here. My point is they should have invited him. This was his opportunity to get what? When votes, all right, to be able to persuade or change minds of people who was like, I ain't voting for him. All right. Because of blah, blah, blah. And then what did he do? He did. He, he cemented that for the majority. Not those people. I, if I heard it right, there was some people clapping. All right. Because they, they are in his corner as well. And they were, look, I didn't see the whole crowd, but I would imagine they were African American people that's still going to vote for him. So, so my point is, is that at the end of the day. Our recourse in these issues is voting. Okay. It is because the back to your point, buddy, years ago, um, just something like that would have been done. Okay. You would have been finished. You wouldn't, you would have been wiped out your political career over. Okay. Because the moral compass of the country, regardless of what we deal with, would have been like, we don't want that person representing us. Okay. Okay. We're in a different world now, right? So you can have somebody that's, you know, insane, that can treat people like dogs, that lies all the time. Okay. I mean, constantly. Okay. And does anything he wants to do. And they say, Hey, he's a good leader. All right. And that makes no sense to me. It makes none. And so I'm not surprised, but in my opinion, Then NABJ did what they were supposed, they needed, they had to do, in my opinion.

So, so, and I know this, I don't want to go down this rabbit hole, I'm just saying this as a disclaimer, but the issue is, Tony, your advice to me and any sound, rational thinking American is to go out and vote. But he's never won the popular election and when he did lose officially, he threw a tantrum and incited an insurrection. So, I mean, once again, damned if you do, damned if you don't because he's not ever won the popular election. So people did not vote for him and look at where it got us. Eight years, like you said, we eight years of counting of this fucking lunacy. This is crazy. Whose fault is that? See,

see, this is the thing I just said. Any other era, any other era, this dude would have been wiped out. All right. But, and that's the, that's the, um, you know, what I want to say, that's shame on us as a society. That this person to your point is, is like this and he's, uh, uh, uh, uh, 90 days away from being reelected as president of that. I mean that right there, it tells, it tells more about us, the population versus him. See, this is, this is my point here. We're saying, look at him, look at him. It should be, look at us. How do we have somebody who. Who ignited a, uh, a, a, a, a surection insurrection. Okay. Everybody know he did it. Everybody. Okay. And we, we spoke about it on, on our show. Right. And the dude is right back and hold on. Not only that, not only everybody did it, they spoke out on him. Then he said to them, you better not, uh, you'll never vote again. You'll never run for office again. And they fell in line.

Absolutely.

Think about that. Absolutely. Think about that. And now they're endorsing him. What does that tell you? Okay. So if you, let's be fair, man, let's be fair. And you look, my brother, I love you. Okay. However, if you had that absolute type of power, right, where you could just do whatever you want to do. Say anything you want to say treat people any way you want to treat it and people still would support you They wouldn't even move off your block. That's

insane It is insane and that that's I'm glad that you said that because just because you can do something Does it mean that you should, and that shows more character or a character flaw greater than anything I, or you could say about someone is that if I got the right to go kick old people, you know what I'm saying? I then nobody's stopping me. I'm just going to go kick old people. No, you shouldn't kick old people. That doesn't even make sense that you're rationalizing the fact that you can get away with it as the justification as to why you do it. But come on now,

but yeah, but Chris, I don't even want to use the word, but cause I'm agreeing with you a hundred percent. Okay. But that ship sail, okay. We were beyond that. I just told you about him saying, grabbing the, you know, we're beyond that. Okay. So, so it, you know, reminds me of when, uh, um, so this conversation reminds me, uh, when I got out the military, I came, I was living with my mother and her husband. And, um, I was living at their house and, um, uh, his brother was off, you know, mentally, mentally challenges. Right. And I'm a young, I'm 22, 23. Right. I'm all, I always want to be right. The whole nine years. Right. So he would say stuff. Right. And. This, you know, he would say, you know, crazy stuff and I would argue with him like, man, that ain't how it go, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and we would get into these heated arguments over and over. So, then one time I said something to him and, uh, he started, you know, going off and me and him got into an argument. My mother grabbed me, pulled me in the room, said, look. Didn't I tell you about arguing with crazy? You can't argue with crazy people. All right. So this is where we are. My man, you're saying this is unacceptable. There's more. You're dealing with somebody that's unhinged. All right. There is no common sense here. If that makes sense. And when she said that to me, I was like, You know what I'm arguing with somebody that don't get it. They ain't gonna never get it. And it's just a waste of energy.

Right, right. Yeah. You are, you are going astrophysical to wino, you know what I'm saying? That's just, nobody can tell who's the crazy one here. I understand it. But when you attack, when you attack these things, when you attack DEI as the reason why she got a degree from this place or held this job or whatever you she's held the second highest position in the land and they call it a DEI hire. Now, ironically, she's had other positions that were. justified in the past. It can't be your whole life has been a DEI hire. That doesn't even make sense. The math ain't mathing on that regard, but they're using these things to diminish accomplishments. And for whatever reason, people are applauding this. And that's the sad part. It's a sad state of affairs.

That's so true, buddy. That's so true. So listen, I want to, because you know, You and I, we had, did an episode, um, what is woke and why is it a bad thing, right? The word woke. And we talked about that, what the real meaning was, why the meaning was important, and then how they hijacked the word and they weaponized it, okay? And this is where we are with DEI right now, okay? DEI is, woke became a dog whistle. Okay. And DEI now is a dog whistle, right? And we're going to talk a little bit about when we say dog whistle, but what are they really saying when, when we talk about DEI or even when they were saying, whoa, so I want to read this article. I saw this when I was, um, I was in Martha's Vineyard on the beach, chilling, right? Wife next to me, my daughter, her friend. We're having a good time. And I, you know, always like to read. And I read this article and it's from the, um, publication called The Conversation. The author is Jennifer Soul. And, and she says, why the term DEI is being weaponized as a racist dog whistle. And this is what she says, uh, this is what she wrote, and I quote, A bridge in Baltimore collapsing. A door falling off an airplane. Anti Semitism. What do they have in common? In recent months, diversity, equity, and inclusion has been blamed for all three. This may be a little, seem a little baffling. In fact, when I tell this to friends who don't keep up with these issues, they're stunned. How, they want to know, is DEI being blamed for these issues? And why would anyone do so? Well, guess what? They have a right to be skeptical. These explanations really aren't quite terrible, but there are reasons why the term DEI is leaping to the forefront of the culture war, pushed by the far right into every conversation possible. In right wing, white wing, right wing rhetoric, the DEI label is often used to play upon racial resentment. It is increasingly appropriate as a racial dog whistle used to question and undermine. The positions, qualifications, and abilities of racialized people. And just so we're on the same page, she wanted to define what a dog whistle is. I'm going to read what she wrote. A dog whistle is a term that also does something else. Something less socially acceptable below the surface. It is a coded deniability bit of language that allows people to communicate ideas that would be too offensive. If done specifically. So let's see, let's hear some of these DEI dog whistles.

DEI is just a rebranded version of, uh, uh, hating white people. DEI in this case stands for divisive, erroneous, and hateful. Insidious DEI, which stands for didn't earn it. Discrimination, exclusion, and indoctrination. DEI breeds complacency Dana and complacency kills. We're going to have doctors who don't know how to perform heart surgery. And we're going to have planes that are falling out of the sky. I'm sorry. If I see a black pilot, I'm going to be like, boy, I hope he's qualified.

Think about that, right? So now DEI, I'm going to finish your article. DEI can cover all of these. Those books you don't like. Blame DEI. Black people getting prestigious jobs? It's DEI at fault. Annoying young student activists? Too much DEI on university campuses. It's hard to find, as you heard, a hot topic issue or social context where DEI can't be hurled as a term of abuse to undermine, marginalize, Here's another example, a Republican lawmaker in Utah blamed the Baltimore bridge collapse on DEI saying, this is what happens when you have governors who prioritize diversity over the wellbeing of security of citizens. They also called the city black, the city's black mayor, Brandon Scott, the DEI mayor. Okay. So as you can see, my brother, DEI now. Is now weaponized, which stands for diversity, equity and inclusion, not the terms that they just got finished saying in the clip we just played, but now it's being used in anything that goes wrong or anything that people of color are a part of. Okay. So how could it be the DEI governor when the whole state elected the governor? Okay. To that. Position, right? How could, uh, one of the clips, um, uh, you know, so we got to have people who don't know how to do heart surgery. So, so now anybody that's a person of color, black, they're not qualified to do anything. Okay. They

need to fill out an application. They

just picked them off the street. Okay. Are you okay with white clothes on? Yeah, let's put them here. Right now. Here's the thing. Let's go back and this is just recent. Okay. Okay. Let's just go back in our history. You know who Charles Drew was? Dr. Charles drew the heart surge. He invented blood plasma. Blood plasma. Right. Right. Okay. Was that D I what about Ben Carson? You know who he is? He separated Siamese tweens at the head. Was that D I? So my point I'm trying to make is this is all of a sudden. Okay. And this is now become a term that really means black people to galvanize. Yeah. A group of people that's saying that's part of a zero sum game, that they're trying to take something from you, okay? And they're getting stuff that they're not qualified to get because of the policies that are being put in place in corporations and in government around the country.

You know, the issue is In philosophy, there's a dynamic of you shouldn't turn generals into specifics or specifics in the general. And when you ever, whenever you paint with a broad brush or you cast aspersions, black people are not monolithic. Women are not monolithic. No one person represents the entire diaspora of individuals, you know, that we have before us. But when it's convenient, you have the individual that represents the interest that we have. So therefore they're okay, or they're safe. You know, that's the one thing we always have to calibrate. Am I the safe guy in this situation? Forget the token and all this other stuff, but this concept of, if I don't agree with something that you've done, I'm going to attack the credibility of whomever has provided you said certification, said degree, said license, said employment, I'm going to intact the entire institution and everything that it was made up of, I think is overkill is dynamite fishing. It's just a bad, it's a bad idea. And unfortunately we get caught up in that and we're back in this no win situation because the answer is not don't go to school. Don't apply for this job. Don't do your best and rise in the ranks because if you do, you're only going to end up having aspersions cast on you at some point if someone so feels like it, like having that, having that paranoia that if I get shiny enough, or if I do too much. You know, Paul Mooney had a joke years ago that said, Be careful, black folks, if you like something too much, because white folks will come and take it. Like, they have an issue with you just being too happy, being settled, being American. You know, being able to absorb your freedoms and your rights and things of that nature. That, that, um, what, what my, my, I had an old boss used to call it an unhealthy, or I'm sorry, healthy tension. The degree of healthy tension has gotten out of control and using these dog whistles, as you stated is, is. It's actually interesting that it still occurs considering how blatant people have become.

Yeah, buddy. So listen, this is a strategy. Okay. So let's just be clear here. Okay. This is a strategy to divide and conquer people. All right. The people that you just heard on those clips, they're at, they know this stuff ain't real. The stuff that they saying, they know it's not real. They're doing that on purpose because they know the majority of people. Will not check stuff out. They'll listen to them and and and run with it. And they'll believe that, right? They'll believe it. That's what this is. The people that, you know, one of the clips, uh, was, um, was, um, uh, Governor DeSantis. He knows what DEI stands for, okay, but he made up his own acronym to it to divide people to get to. It's a zero. They're trying to take stuff away from you. Okay. That's what this is about it. So it's not about bringing people together. It's on purpose. Dog whistles are on purpose. It's a strategy. To do it's instead of saying the N word straight out, right? Because that's really what they're saying. It's all right. Instead of saying that you use these coded, uh, phrases and it means this. Okay. And not, and, and look at their examples and, and some of them were blatant. If I see a black doctor, well, excuse me, I see a black, uh, pilot. I hate to say it, but I ain't think he he's qualified that makes no. So, so think about it for a second. They've been black pilots for years. All right. Now, all of a sudden, all anybody who's a pilot is not qualified. That makes no sense. All right. But my point is, is that they're doing it on purpose because the majority of people will believe it. And that's real because they have no other thing to believe. And that's how you get people to vote for you, to follow you. We talked about it in 1890. What was it? A Wilmington in our episode, Wilmington's lie. They did the same thing. It was no different, but they use pictures. All right. And says, do you want this representing you in Wilmington, North Carolina, or are they going to rape you? They, it was no different. And unfortunately, we're 130, 40 years since that time. And we're dealing with the same stuff.

Well, ironically, and that's specifically to here. They did the same thing with propaganda in Nazi Germany. I mean, this is, this is a play that's been run. Like you said, they did the same thing in South Africa when they came over with the Jim Crow to figure out how do we institute apartheid? Like some of these things that diminish the accomplishments of other people, marginalized people specifically are purposeful. But the reality of it is, I don't understand how to counteract the weaponization. Of ignorance or misleading information. How do you counteract because the facts don't do it. We can stop that because if I bring facts, it'll be fake news or you'll just cast this. And when there is no answer that exists, there's the quote is. For those who care, no explanation is required. And for those who do not know, explanation will do. If you're a believer, you believe if you're not a believer, no matter what I show you, it's a trick. It's something to it. And that's tough to live a life like that for our children. As we move forward, that's tough to exist and pay taxes and. And want to feel safe in a world that allows for that type of lunacy,

buddy. So, so here's the thing, this is where, and I hear you, but we got it. We got to be better than that, right? Because, you know, basically what, what was happening, somebody has got a bullhorn. All right. And they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're spitting venom. And we just supposed to sit back and take it? No. What we're supposed to do is what we're doing now. Okay. We, we speak about it. We, we, we tell the facts. If they don't believe it, that's on them, but we have to push back just as much. And that's, and see, here's the challenge. You got to give them credit though. All right, because they got the strategy down and they've been playing the strategy and then, you know, oh, we, they go low, we go high, no, right now, we gotta be calling people names, but we call it out, you know, you know, and you know, this, we chat about this, I didn't, you know, you think, um, I, you know, we have this podcast. We come on and talk about issues. We have all different types of people come on here. Successful people come on, talk about this issue, right? You think I really wanted to start a podcast talking about race? You kidding me? Right. You think that no, all right. I didn't even talk about race. The majority of my time in corporate America. Okay. Cause I wanted, I just thought, Hey, I'll show up. I'll do the right thing. I'll be an example. And a lot of my friends and family, they'll be an example. And this thing will just fade away. No, you've had the war on drugs. I can go through everything. Every chapter from the time my mother said, told me about race and you know how the world would see me. But don't worry about it. You just focus and this and that and just don't say nothing. Don't do it. And all through that time we had people coming up. Talking and pushing false narratives out over and over again. And we were quiet. Did it change anything? No. Now we went from woke. I mean, we can buddy, if we did, we should do a podcast just on the dog whistles that has come out over the last 40, 50 years. Okay. They ain't stopped. And so we have to are, and this is what I've learned. We have to, right. Is speak about these issues with fact, with example. Okay. Let me ask you this, man. Let me ask you this. Um, you're a very astute individual. You, you, you're, you've been at multiple corporations. Okay. Have you been at places where you were? You know, you were only a, it was only a few black people there.

Absolutely. Okay.

And out of you being, it was only a few black people, right. But people were getting promoted in the organization. Right. Right. Um, did you ever see people get promoted that didn't deserve it?

Oh,

absolutely. What color was they? What? No, no. Answer the question. What color was they? Here's the situation. No, no, no, no. They were white. They were white. They were white. They were white. So, so, so, so, so, so this is my point here. Okay. See, this is my point. And I'm not, not, the reason I asked the question, because that's real. We've all, that's, we have people that work, right? Who's listening to this podcast, watching it. They work at companies right now. There's not a lot of people of color at those companies. Right. They're complaining every day about who's, who's running this place. This place is, you know, or he's, he only got the job because, uh, his father was blah, blah, and they're white. But nobody's saying that. Nobody's saying that. Right. And that's real. But it's now only people of color. Are getting jobs that they're not qualified for every per doctors, lawyers, pilots, they're just, you know, they've got a dump truck and it's throwing black people in and is giving them jobs. Right. That's my point. That that's why I'm saying is that at the end of the day, if you think about that, these are the things that we have to say, because it's true, right. And those people who believe some of this stuff that's being pushed out there, they deal, they work at these companies and they see that themselves.

Okay. Well, the interesting thing about it though, Tony is I, I pushed back on this concept that, um, high paying or high, highly influential roles that black people sit in, they aren't qualified for. In fact, I would say in my experience at Fortune, I've worked at five Fortune 500 companies. I can tell you this, when you ask me to close my eyes and imagine an incompetent leader, vice president, senior vice president, CEO, whatever, 100 percent of those people were white. And when you asked me who were the best people, one of the prerequisites of being put in those roles as a black person is you've checked off every box. You more than everything, more than boxes, right? You

on a level

of astronaut. Okay. Absolutely. Absolutely. Just to be in those seats and they're waiting for you to mess up. They're waiting for you. Like, like our girl, Rosalyn, that was the CEO of Walgreens. They was, Walgreens was on a trajectory that wasn't sustainable anyway, but then they said, well, we got to get rid of Rosalyn because Walgreens ain't the stock, the stock price. Forget about the history. Forget about other things. It was, maybe it's her, maybe it's her. Now, luckily she's landed on her feet and is doing great things now. But the moral of the story is the fact that she sat up there when I seen her sitting in the seat, I was like, Oh, she must be amazing. She could have been an astronaut. She could have been anything. So my perspective of the black person that's in these roles is the exact opposite of what I'm hearing on this dog whistling where I see a black pilot. I'm like, dang, that dude. Is the man, but

Chris ops, buddy. Come on. We know that we know, but they don't,

I don't think they do. No, no, no, no, no, no,

no, no, no. So, so, so here's the thing. We know it. Right. Yeah. And, and, and here's the thing. And you, and you're right. They probably, because if somebody telling you over and over and over again, okay, that they only got this job based on them being, but let's be fair. See, again, yeah. This ain't nothing new. Denzel Washington only won the Oscar because he was black. Okay? These things have always come up like that. Right? And so, now it's being pushed more as a strategy. To gain, garner votes and to push back against, uh, uh, so called policies that they feel favor people of color, okay? And they're positioning it as a zero sum game, okay? That they're taking something from you, and you won't be able to survive, or you won't be able to work. They've taken your job. That's how it's being positioned. They're taking your, your, your, their kids are going to schools that they don't belong in, right? They're taking your scholarship. They're taking, that's how this is being positioned and using these dog whistles. And I'm, let me just back up for a second. Cause I'm going to give me, I'm going to be, I'm look, we, we created this to be, have honest, authentic discussions, right? And I want to have somebody to come on and who disagrees. Right. So I'd love to have that, but let me give you an example. I'm not going to tell you the name of the company. Okay. I'm not going to tell you. I worked at a company. Okay. And, um, the senior management. Okay. There was one guy there. Okay. And I'm not gonna say what his name was. Okay. Um, but, and he wasn't on the same level as, as all the other senior managers. Okay. And I remember the, uh, executive assistant, we all became friends. We all hang out. Don't get me wrong. We hung out with them and on the air. Right. And I remember asking, I was like, so how did this guy, you know, how did he end up in this position? You know, she told me he's a good old boy. Right. And she was white. All right. She, she broke it down. Okay. Then the dude left. Went to another company. I'm not going to say who, all right. The, I knew the guy that was going to be reporting to this guy. Okay. And I, I was like, he said, yeah, Tony, can you tell me about blah, blah, blah. So he's a good guy. Blah, blah, blah, blah, right. Three, four months later, the dude calls me back and it's like, this dude's horrible. All right. I'm not learning nothing from him. He ain't bringing nothing to the table, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Okay. So my point I'm trying to make, this is just one example is that. You know? Only black people are getting jobs as they're not qualified, that doesn't make, you just said it. We have to jump through multiple hoops. Okay. And here's the thing, even in our own head, we, we have credentials, but then we even worry about when we sit down that talk about these jobs, like, are they going to take me, even though I check all the boxes and I did this, I did that, this, this, that, this, and that. So overqualified worked our butts off, but there's a narrative that's going out and saying, it's not, and it's our responsibility. Push back on that and say what time it is.

I'm going to tell you a good story. It is true story. Good situation. And it involves me specifically. I, uh, get an opportunity to get into a role, very high visible role, billion dollar a year budget, things of that nature. Right. And when they came to me and said, Hey, this guy wants you to be on the team and support, you know, this, that, and the third. I said, okay, can I speak with him first before any decisions are made? Now, my, my assistant vice president at the time was a Latino lady. And she was like, sure. She didn't even understand. And I go to him and say, you know, you got three or four black people already working for a year. Like if it's too many of us over here, like I was concerned about the optics. It'd be now I knew I was qualified, but the one thing that it was, it's funny. We laughed about it and I ended up doing it. Great job. Great situation, you know, but it was a lot of brothers over there. You know, not a lot. It was only three or four out of. 2530, but I was very cognizant of the fact that man. It's kind of, it's kind of some over there. And if it gets, we get too comfortable over there, it's going to become the black area or the black division type situation. And that's something that other people don't have to worry about. They don't have to be cognizant of some of those things. But you know, the interesting part about it is Tony, when somebody casts a doubt or they say anything about someone else's employment status, we should all challenge ourselves from a less perspective. To make sure we're talking about production,

buddy. Now,

are you attacking the production or are you attacking the person? I had a employee one time and I told him he was crazy out of control, bad attitude, used to pout and throw tantrums and all this and all that. And I think that he thought that me and him had a problem. He was easily one of the best employees I ever had from a production perspective. And so eventually we had a conversation and he was like, man, you know, I was going through a time. My mom was sick, this, that, and you put up with me. And I said, I can't prosecute personality. I can only prosecute production. So I can't go to HR and say, I don't like, I don't like his personality. I don't have that type of audacity. I wasn't grown yet like that. But the moral of the story is if we only prosecute production, If you start thinking about anybody listening to our voices, now, if somebody says something to you about someone, make sure that you're steering the conversation to production. Not what they look like, how they dress, they skin tone, they accent, none of that kind of stuff. Because I think that's where we get caught up in the groundswell of people are saying stuff. We don't check it or ask the extra question, which is, well, how productive has this person been? Like you said, your man showed up and he was trash productivity wise, he was

trash, great guy,

great guy, great

guy, great guy, great guy, right. He deserved his money though. But, well, but here's the thing though, there's a couple of things to that. Is that he was able to leave and still get another job somewhere. Yes, sir. That's the moral And show up strong. He didn't, he didn't go from here and then have to back up and go here. Right. And then work his way back up. No, he was here and went over and he was here. Okay. And so, so these are the things that we don't get a chance to be able to do. We make a mistake or we do something wrong or we don't say the right thing in the right time, or we come across angry or, or whatever case may be, it's a demerit. Okay, where that's the thing that people don't recognize and I got to say this thing of the two because, you know, one of the things that happens is we people get hamstrung before they even start the job. Okay, I'll tell you another story. Friend of mine told me about a friend of his who was going for this position going for a position and, um, he, he knew the person and, um, um, he interviewed with them and they said, great, we're going to have you come back in. Okay. And then he followed up with them. And then the hiring manager said, Oh, you know what? We, unfortunately we had to fill the job already. We had to, uh, uh, hire a black one or we had to, um, you know, we, you know, so this dude walked away like, Oh, they, she, they only gave her the job because she was, that's what in his mind. Okay. So he didn't say we had to, he just said, we hired this woman, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Okay. So immediately The thought is she ain't qualified, right? Coming in the door. The thought is she ain't qualified when we know she probably her credential instead of saying, instead of saying, Hey, we already found a rail really great candidate. She's awesome. She's got great experience. We love you, my man, but you know, it's just, it was, we had a lot of competition and we chose the best person. That's how you say it. But when you say, Oh, we had, we hired this black woman. All right. Or then people start. So these little bitty things helps is part of the whole puzzle that now people think, Oh, anybody that gets a job, that's a person of color, they ain't qualified because they're saying that. So we gotta be careful with that. And then real quick, I want to back up because Noel, uh, did the research. So. It was 1989 NBC News special on race. I know it wasn't crazy, right? And the question that Bryant Gumbel asked Trump. If Trump had to do it all over again, he said he was starting the business world as an educated black man. All right. That's what Trump said. All right. I would love to be a well educated black man because I really believe they do have an actual advantage today. That's what Trump said, 1989. Right. All right. Now he can't remember. Is she black? Man.

All right. Man. Ain't that you see

my point now? Okay. So. But, but my, my friend though, I just, he really, you know, I'm very passionate about this stuff because I know what I go through or what I went through to get to where I am today, you know, and let's be fair though, too. A lot of my mentors were white. There were people who saw something in me and they were like, Tony, you know, I never went and asked for a promotion. Never. I never said I deserve this. This net I, my work. I worked hard and it showed up and they called me in the office said we making you this We're promoting you to this and so so so I know what it you know I know what I had to go through and I know what we have to go through to Not only get in the building But rise up in the building. It ain't easy. And so when people get promotions and they get jobs, I'm talking about people of color. It ain't because they're not qualified. They're trying to fill a quota. Okay. Trust me on that part. I can tell you flat out. All right. Trust me on that. Now, you may not like them. To your, uh, uh, you know, I, I can't get rid of you because, uh, personality, personality. You may not like their personality and human beings like anybody else, right? But when it comes to performance, showing up, being up and doing the things I'm sorry. No, I, I, I, no, no, no, no, no. That's my take.

Absolutely. And I think we show up and show up all the time, but once again, we've been conditioned. To understand that that's the black tax. That's the extra that you have to pay just for the same equivalent opportunities or, or, uh, uh, situations that you can put yourself in because 1 of the things that has been conditioned out of us over time is that audacity, it's a situation that I just did a conversation about this a couple of weeks ago, but it was specifically talking about women and minorities in the idea of studies have shown. A white male can qualify for two or three of the 10 things that a resume, uh, or a job description calls for and say, man, I got this and go in there with all the audacity in the world and the confidence. Life is a confidence game, Tony, but we feel like, man, I'm eight out of 10. They ain't going to choose me or a woman feels like I'm nine out of 10. I ain't got a chance because we've been conditioned to believe that if it's not perfect, We might not even, we shouldn't even waste our time where the audacity that they come in with is so high that they like, why not me? Why? Shit, man. Hey, I'm going for

it. It's so true. And,

and, and unfortunately that's the burden that we've allowed for ourselves to carry that we have to get over. And we had to start leading the league in attempts. We had to start putting ourselves out there and believing that if you put me in here. Some good things is going to happen because nobody's going to believe it if you don't first

buddy flat out and you know what? And look, I I've I've done both Okay, I've done the you know, I didn't check every box and I remember people my superiors Telling me Tony you would be perfect for this role Right. Tony, you know, all this stuff. Right. And I look at the description. I'm like, I don't check all these boxes. Right. And I don't know if I could do that, but they're telling me they, they've said, Tony, you could do this. Right. I'll tell you this other really quick story where I actually did do it. All right. And I worked for this company. I just started working there as an account executive. And then the, um, the sales manager was, uh, was going to another job. So our VP said, Hey, look, we're going to open this up. Anybody wants to take his spot? And I had just got there and they were two other people that had been there for years, that was way more knowledgeable, man, quality, qualified webcasting people. But I was like, I'm gonna throw my hat in the ring, right? So I went and I had the interview, you know what I'm saying? He asked me, what would I do? I told him blah, blah, blah. It's 900 yards. And then. You know, then they, they came out and said, all right, we're going to promote her. Right. That was my girl. Deserved it flat out. Right. Then a couple of years later, they came, Tony, can you come in the office? I was like, yeah. They took me in the office. They said, look, Sherry Gale is retiring. We're making you the manager. And I'm like, what? And they're like, Tony, you already been the manager. You were leader. Everybody comes to you. You've been, you push back. You have ideas. They already had the paperwork written up in the whole nine yard. And you know what they said to me? They said, well, they didn't say it then, but they told me after they were like, you, he already threw his hat in the ring. All right. That he, this was two years, two, three years later. Absolutely. Right. So this is why you have to go for it. Yeah. Right? And don't worry about that. And then yeah, you got to bring it. You have to bring it. Okay. But like I said, I didn't ask for nothing. Nobody. We're going to make you the manager. Okay. So, so we have to get our own way. But more importantly, back to this segment, we have to push back that these narratives are not true. And we can't let somebody else keep pushing narratives. That's not true. To divide people and to more importantly, make, make not just our lives where we are, but our kids life. Okay. Um, you know, not in the best stuff that they're going to have to deal with when it comes to, you know, us being qualified. Uh, for positions.

Absolutely. Absolutely. A hundred percent agree. See it as believing. And we gotta, you know, like I said, put ourselves in those situations where you can see it, we can prove it out. Um, and then we just got to keep fighting a good fight because once again, there are forces that no matter what you show, no matter how much data you show up with, they have an agenda to discredit and diminish everything that you've developed and built. Over time, and we have to do both. We have to construct and defend simultaneously.

Buddy flat out. We, and here's the thing we have to come together as people. We have to, um, start speaking as one voice, right? You know, we have our partners CodeM magazine. We have Dr. Nsenga Burton. Those are, those are, those things are on purpose, right? Because we're all working to do the same thing. Right? And they may be different vehicles, but the bottom line is, as we start, if we come together and start amplifying our voice, and there's a lot of people doing a lot of great stuff, right? We have to amplify. We have to amplify and stop and push back. And that doesn't mean we attack people. That doesn't mean we call people names. That's not my point. My point is, is that we refute and push back these narratives and provide the facts to educate people. To your point, those who want to be educated. So final thoughts, my brother.

I just think that, you know, these type of platforms, these type of opportunities give you food for thought. You know, you're famous for saying, don't believe me. Go check, you know, don't don't believe me. Don't do it for me. Do it for goodness sake. Right? And so, for goodness sake, uh, think about these things. We've said, think about the fact that at your building, when you've had someone and you thought they weren't the greatest leader, manager, CEO, CFO, CIO, Think about kind of, uh, where they came from. And I'll tell you, if you're being honest with yourself, the people that are of color, the people that are in these positions, they're few and far between the ones that you consider to be incompetent based on production. It just, it just, it's so rare. It's so rare that I would take that to the bank. So sometimes you just got to take a step back and take the emotion out of it and say, what am I really allowing myself to believe? What am I allowing myself to propagate throughout this organization or to hand off to other people? And am I being responsible? Don't be like some of these leaders that we have in, in, in the political arenas and speak irresponsibly. If you're going to love your fellow man and better your society, you have a responsibility to speak responsibly, speak truthfully, speak fairly at all times. And that's how you can be the best citizen, the best Patriot, the best, whatever that you have, the best father, teacher, brother, uncle. You know, always try to be responsible in your thought in your positioning and in your presentation. And I think that that's what we're trying to do here and given just a perspective. We would love to hear a counter to that. If you have it, bring it. And we, we're here. We're open. We're, we're receptive because we can't grow without being polished. Right? You can't shine as a diamond. Uh, friction creates a polish. It creates a shine and we're okay with that. We're here for that. That's what we want, but don't just merely dismiss this. Go and do your research, research your research and come back and let me know where you think I was in error,

buddy. That's a great final thought. My man. I love it. And I concur. I'm 100 percent behind you. Thank you for that. So now I think it's time for Tony's tidbit. So the tidbit today, um, and Chris spoke to it, navigating the currents of change. We uncover the deeper meanings. Behind the world's latest events guiding us towards a more informed future. And that's what we want. We want a more informed future.

And don't forget to tune in for information. Speaking of informed future, uh, the segment need to know with Dr. Nsenga Burton happens every week. So make sure that you don't miss this week's need to know segment. A black executive perspective podcast has Dr. Burton, where she dives into timely and crucial topics that shape our community and world to an end to gain unique insights and deepen your understanding of issues that matter. Trust me, you do not want to miss this. It's powerful every week. No,

you definitely don't want to miss this. So I hope you enjoyed another episode of a black executive perspective podcast, BEP insights, navigating the today's top headlines.

And then also, we want to employ you, and I talked about this earlier, our call to action to incorporate less. L E S S. And remember the first L, the L, I'm sorry, in this is learn. Educate yourself on racial and cultural nuances. Make sure that you're keeping your mind open and in taking plenty of perspective.

Yeah. And E stands for empathy, right? Once you've learned, you should be more empathetic towards your fellow human being, colleague, family.

And then of course the first S is for share. Don't hide it. Divide it. Use these insights that things you've learned to cascade. Throughout your organization, your community, your family.

And then the final S, which is just as important, S stands for stop. We want to stop discrimination wherever it comes in our path. So if grandpa's at the Thanksgiving table and grandpa says something that's inappropriate, you say, grandpa, we don't believe in that. And you stop it. And by doing that, we're going to have a more understanding world. We're going to see the change that we want to see. Because less will become more.

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