Foreign.

You are listening to the Horse Radio Network, part of the Equine Network family.

Well, hi everybody.

Welcome back to the WESA Retail Roundup.

I am Glenn the Geek, founder of the Horse Radio Network and host of Horses in the Morning, the daily podcast.

This week is our 15th anniversary, so we're excited to celebrate that and I want to welcome you here.

The Retail Roundup is your go to virtual hub for all things retail.

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Just search for Retail Roundup on Facebook and you can hop in over there and be part of the conversation.

Today we're talking about empowering retailers to better understand how strategic marketing can drive store traffic and sales online and offline.

Our guest is Holly.

Is it Delon?

It's Delon.

Delon.

Okay.

I knew one person with your same last name.

That was Delone.

Yes.

So that's why I wasn't sure if I had it right.

She's the owner and creative force behind Firebrand Marketing, a full service marketing agency specializing in helping businesses ignite their brand presence.

With years of experience in digital advertising, website development and brand strategy, Holly's passion lies in helping clients stand out and in a very crowded market today.

So tell us a little bit about firebrand marketing.

What do you guys do exactly, and how do you work with your customers?

Yeah, you know, the thing about firebrand marketing we really like to do is we like to get to know our clients really well, know their story, even know their origin story.

I kind of want to go ahead and be in so that I feel like I am one of the owners of your business.

Right.

Because I want to know exactly who your customer is, who what, you know, what drives them, what are their hobbies, you know, what's working for you, what's not working.

And so we really start off a lot of discussions about your brand and what's working, what's not working.

And so we have a really good idea of who you are.

I think that's what's a little bit different is that we really try to understand the brand before we move forward.

Because I think that if it's kind of like building a house without a good foundation, if you can make something really pretty, but is it going to stand up?

And so that's where we start.

And then we start layering on those pieces.

And for us, one of the first things that we do is make sure you have, of course, a good brand image.

Make sure that your logos and your colors and your fonts, everything's very consistent.

And then I think one of the most important things a brand can do is have really strong creative, really good photography, really good videography.

It is really like trying to bake a cake without flour.

If you do not have that, you can run ads, you can do commercials, and everything's going to kind of fall flat.

But if you have something that will really capture somebody's eye and attention, you're already ahead of the game.

And I think too, you're talking about logos.

It sounds so simple.

But most businesses do their logo at the very beginning and 15 years later, you know, it hasn't been changed.

And maybe it wasn't very good to begin with, you know, so well, I.

Mean, just 15 years ago, you know, our.

Just the ability of our graphic design, you know, capabilities and all the different tools that we have in our tool belt are so much better.

And so if you're, look, if your logo looks like you made it on, you know, word, word, then you're in trouble, you know that it will, it'll kind of, maybe you can have the best business in the world.

And if you have kind of your brand doesn't look like very professional and clean, then people are going to make a snap decision about you and it might not be what you want.

What's the first thing?

So with a retailer, let's say, and I know you work with a lot of retailers too, what with a retailer, what is the most common thing that you see?

And go, okay, we have to do that first.

This, the branding, you know, we have to go and stop.

Or very common for retailers, they will have had different people who have touched their brand over the years and they've each left their, or fingerprints, I guess you could say on it.

So one person like this logo and somebody else like this logo and now all of a sudden we're using XYZ and they're being used in different ways.

It's just really confusing to a customer.

And so usually I'm like, hey, let's take one and run with it or let's wipe, you know, the slate clean and let's start fresh and make something good.

And then for the whole company, we like to create a brand, brand kit and a brand story.

And so we hand it over to everybody in the company and say, okay, here is if you are ordering, getting something monogrammed or if you're getting banners done, this is what you're sending to the company because it's going to have your, your approved colors, your approved fonts, so nobody can really get off base.

Keeps everybody on the same page, you know, Another place that it's a challenge for retailers is trying to stand out.

I mean, it is a sea of noise on the Internet, I guess you could say.

And so trying to stand out is really hard for them.

And a common mistake I see is that they try to be everywhere all the time, and they are just spreading their marketing budget too thin.

And so they're trying to advertise local and place social media ads and they're, you know, they're trying to be everybody and they, you just can't be.

And so you have to really figure out what you want to do and focus in on a few areas and then force your budget in those areas and that will help you stand out.

I think that was so much easier 20 years ago, wasn't it?

Because you had a few places you could advertise and you focused on magazines was really, I mean, back then, magazines, newspapers, maybe radio in your local market, maybe.

But today it's like there's a million.

Things and they're all, I mean, all really great and they all, you know, you could probably make a good case for all of them, but you're going to have to.

Sometimes I just tell my clients, I'm like, where are you going for your information and where are you spending your hours?

Then that's probably a good indication of where your customer is too.

And every market is different that way.

You know, some, some markets are, you know, our TikTok.

Some markets are Facebook.

You know, it depends who your customer is too.

Yeah, we found a lot of western industry, maybe even your older demographic is on Facebook.

Yeah.

And a lot of people say, oh, no TikTok, you know, and so that's.

Right.

So we have to, you know, you have to make sure that you're not ignoring, you know, one area.

But that's one reason I really like digital ads.

You're really able to target in and you're paying for your clicks and you're getting to see what your ROI is.

I'm just a big fan of running meta ads and also Google Ads.

It's just, it's making the most difference for my clients.

And these days, you know, when marketing dollars might be short, can't really afford to place a $15,000 ad in a new magazine and just hope it, hope it does well or I hope that generated some something for us.

And so that's where we've been putting our money.

Are you seeing while you're on that topic, okay.

With AI showing up and answering most people's questions at the top and them not looking any further than that, is that going to affect Google Ad advertising and meta advertising?

I think instead of affecting, I think it'll inform it a little bit more.

I think AI is just helping us in all areas get a little smarter and kind of run further faster, I guess.

And so I don't, I don't foresee those digital advertising being any less effective.

I think it's just going to, you're going to find your better, your target audience better.

One thing, I don't know if this is something you want to get into right now, but we've been seeing kind of a big tip for retailers is your most valuable thing that you have is your customer list.

And if you are not taking your customer list and running ads on meta and using your audience source with your customer list, you're missing out.

And what you can do is you can upload, they want your emails and you upload those and say, these are my customers.

And so it's already retargeting your customers.

And then you can add on what we call a lookalike audience.

And so you can find people who look like your customers.

And then you're really cooking with Crisco, I guess, at that point.

And so I would say, you know, if you're not doing that, write that down.

And that's like step one, if you're running ads, you need to be doing it, not just boosting ads.

That's a waste of money.

You have to go in Ads manager.

It's a little bit of a Lyft if you've never done it before.

That's why it's probably good to get somebody to help you.

You know, somebody who knows what they're doing.

And that's the most effective way to run ads and drive results.

Wow, I didn't know that.

So there you go.

It's a little scary.

I mean, you know, as a customer myself, you're like, oh, wow, you can do that.

You know, you can really get down and target people and.

But your data is the most important thing that you have.

And so be sure that you're growing your email list and asking people for their phone numbers or just growing that customer list in many different ways.

Even just targeting them with an email every once in a while is a great almost.

That's a free way to reach back out to people.

There's a reason all those big companies are annoyingly asking you what your email is at.

Checkout.

Data is king.

I Guess you could say.

And so it's really important to do that.

For retailers who feel their brand has gone stale, that it's, you know, they've been doing the same thing for a lot of years.

Where should they start with refreshing their identity and their messaging?

Where do you start?

Okay, I.

Where I always start for people like this is I start with a focus group because I want to know why.

Why is your brand going stale or what's going wrong?

And so I would go and ask people, maybe people aren't familiar with you, what do you think of this brand and who do you think we are?

Like, if you see this, what do you think we do?

And their answers might be surprising or maybe they get what you are doing, but that's a really good place to start.

Just start kind of asking around.

I think you'll learn more because it's kind of like, I don't want to run along this, down this road and spend a bunch of money if I just didn't hit the mark in the beginning.

And then the other thing I would do is find your top three messaging pillars.

I think that's for anybody.

It's like, who are we and what do we do?

Like, what are our main three things that we're wanting to a customer to know about us?

And then let that inform everything you do, whether it's your ads, whether it's your social media content, whether if you're doing an interview like this one.

If I'm going to talk, I'm going to talk about the three things, you know, that we're known for.

We do and run along that.

And then I would say, what are your visuals look like?

Are they engaging?

Are you running enough video on social media?

Are you just doing pictures?

That's probably what I would look at first.

That comes back to one of the conversations we had with the accounting person a couple episodes ago where we talked about knowing what your profitable verticals are.

And obviously you want that to kind of coordinate with your, your three pillars right there because, you know, you don't want to be, you don't want to be promoting something that in the end is not profitable in any way.

Yes.

I mean, we, I just actually, the meeting before this, we started, we were visiting about going to January Wesa and what's working and what worked.

And some of the buyer at Westa is different than another segment of our buyer.

So we were like, okay, we're going to be presenting.

Who are we talking to and what were they interested in?

August.

And so I'm not going to try to force something that, that's popular in a different market for Wesa.

So that's, I think that that's the main thing is just really remember who you're talking to.

And you know what, that's funny because that goes across any business.

You know, I'm in the podcasting business.

The same thing.

We have to know who's listening.

It's the same thing.

It, you know, it doesn't change that.

So what are the top things?

Or let me ask you this.

How is it important for your brick and mortar to branding and messaging to match the website?

Or can they be a little disjointed?

No, everything has to be the same.

Yeah.

So I think it's just really confusing to a customer if you are, you know, red and gold, everything online and on social media, and then all of a sudden, you know, they're trying to drive by and find your store and it's, you know, hunter green and blue or something.

I'm just, it's just, you really.

It's just make it easy on people.

You might be tired of looking at it because as the owner of the business or marketing director, you're seeing it every single day.

But you have to know that your, your customer is not having that much frequency interaction with your brand.

And so it's important for it to stay consistent.

And so we did a project for a big retail group and we just made sure that everything looked, you know, had great visuals and even some of the photography we would use, we would use it over, you know, in different places, advertising, billboards and in store, just because people were like, yes, this is, this is that brand that I liked.

Even if they can't even remember your name, sometimes they'll remember what you look like.

And so if you keep that up, that's good.

And even we brought it into the store, we had the same look for section markers, we had signage for the different sections of the store, and we just brought that same look inside the store.

And it also just makes you look really clean, professional and tidy, I think.

So that's.

Well, it invokes confidence that you know what you're doing.

I mean, that's.

Yeah, yeah, you look professional.

Yeah.

Before we get off of focus groups, I did want to mention too, we're one of the very few podcasts, I think, in the world that has a focus group.

And we have a focus group that comments and we do a daily show and they comment.

We get feedback on every episode, every day, from the guests to our segments to Everything.

And so we're constantly looking that it's a good idea to do the focus group like you talked about, but then revisit it again in a year and see how it's changed, see what you can learn year, six months, whatever that is.

Focus groups are a great idea all the time because you do learn.

We learn so much now.

You know, there's always two sides to focus group.

There's the extremes in the middle and obviously the extremes of the extremes, they always are the extremes.

I look at the middle, I look at what's the middle saying, you know, and you know, we always take a look at that.

We always have a focus group that's large enough that there is a middle and that we can always be looking at to what the middle saying.

And if they're in a consensus about something, we know we have to change it.

Yeah.

And I think that it's interesting.

I, I look like at places like Boot Barn or Cavenders or even NRS Supply and each one of those has, you know, I know the people, some people that work at each of those and their customer might not look exactly like them.

And so they are really, they do a great job of making sure that they are hitting all different customer groups and not being kind of blind to that because that could be a really big tick up in your, you know, your profitability.

Be open minded though, because you're going to hear things that you maybe thought you weren't going to.

Oh, yeah, I know that sounds like a simple statement, but sometimes it hurts.

Well, you know, it becomes our, our brands are kind of our babies or you know, retail stores and you put a lot of effort and work into it and so, you know, a lot of hours and you painfully decided what to buy and, and then you must.

Run into that all the time.

Well, we do.

You know, it's interesting because not only our marketing group, but we also own a brand and a retail store.

And so we are kind of seeing this.

You're living it in real time.

Right.

You know, and we're always doing, hey, let's order some of that and see how it goes at that event.

And you know, you kind of get some instant feedback and just trying to get that feedback all the time.

But I know one time I was behind a lady and she picked something up and made a comment about it and I was like, you know, it kind of.

But anyways, it's fine though.

That was, that was her opinion.

And I was like, okay, well, people, I don't know if people, if that's selling.

And maybe that's what, what's going on in their brains.

They don't like that.

So I'm listening.

Yeah.

In a way, your sales are a focus group too, right?

I mean, they're telling you, I don't want that product or I want more of that product.

Right.

Or that line of products.

And we just made a decision today to cut like a lower third off.

And not that it wasn't selling, you know, it wasn't zero sales, but I think sometimes to cut and then replace with things that are fresh or maybe informed from your, your top seller say, hey, you know, we're going to cut these and then we're going to use these to influence our purchasing.

Maybe that's a good idea too.

How often should a retailer update website?

So the website's going along.

I've had it for years.

It's not broken.

Right.

But does it need updated?

So here's the thing, and I know this is SEO, you know, search engine optimization loves a good updated website.

And so I tell clients, hey, I know that this is a pain, but SEO is not a fix it and forget it situation.

It's like a little monster and you have to feed it all the time.

And so what you have to do is keep that website refreshed.

You know, whether it's just changing out some images or.

We have had a lot of good luck with blog posts.

And I know you think, oh, gosh, blog post.

Who's really clicking over there and reading all those?

But Google loves blog posts because it's data.

And so Google puts a high value on all that information and not just AI generated blog posts, because it can sniff that out now, unfortunately.

And so you have to really have some good, thoughtful information for people.

But that does help.

And so that's a good way to keep, you know, I would say do something to your website at least once a month.

You know, give it a little love.

Of course, if you're, if you're a retailer, you're, you're uploading and downloading products.

That's good.

Making some social media connections.

You, you definitely should not just let your website just sit.

It's, it's gonna, you're, you're just gonna see your SEO just keep going down.

How about, I know you have the conversation all the time about marketing budget with clients, and that's a tough one, right?

How do you determine what a marketing budget should be?

I think it's real.

I mean, obviously it depends on the client, right.

If you're a mom and pop, you know, like single store and you know, $500 feels like a lot to you to spend on advertising, but I would not on digital ads, I wouldn't do any less than $500 a month.

You're just not getting a good enough data set to, you know, you're really wanting the algorithm to figure out your ad and start serving it to the right people.

Anything less than 500, it's just not going to do you justice.

So 500 is kind of your.

That's my starting.

Yeah, that's my starting.

That's the starting place for small, you know, but if you're a large brand, you need to be in the thousands as far as digital advertising goes because you know, you think about it, if you're a mom and pop store, you can probably set your advertising to this town and one hour, two hour radius, you know, so you're only like looking at these people.

But if you're a big brand and you're selling across the United States like then your audience is going to be so much bigger, you're going to need more dollars to be able to reach people.

Otherwise you're just spreading too thin.

Is there something you're feeling?

Obviously you, you, you said about tracking earlier, right?

And tracking ROI and all of that.

Is there a type of advertising?

I know you mentioned, you know, Google and Meta and doing those kind, do they tend to perform best for local, for smaller businesses or email?

What?

You know, is there something that, I.

Mean, listen, if your budget stretched and you're wanting to, you know, do something, email's your starting point because that's free.

You can, you can do that or relatively, you can sign up for mailchimp or constant contact and you know, you can manage that yourself.

But if you have some money to spend, kind of depending on what your business is, I would probably start with some meta ads and go ahead and use that customer list like we talked about earlier.

The other thing is if you have a website, make sure that you have a, you go in and you get your metapixel from Meta, there's a thing called metapixel and you attach it to your website and then all of a sudden it's tracking all those people who are coming to your, to your website and informing all of your social media ads.

You know, so it all just kind of starts working together.

Kind of works like the Google Analytics one did.

Yeah, okay, that's great.

Got it.

So if they only have a few hours a week to focus on marketing because we have employees and that's a pain.

And you know, ordering and inventory and accounting and all these things we talk about every week on here.

You know, what should they prioritize first?

Getting help.

I'm going to give you a plug.

And maybe not you personally but also everybody like you, right?

Sure.

Getting help is part of it because it'll pay for itself.

It really will.

And they know it better.

That's their full time job.

It's your very part time job.

It's their full time job.

And yeah, it's going to cost you a little extra but you're going to see a return on it.

And I'm saying that so you don't have to and sound like I appreciate that.

I mean I always tell people I was like, I, I don't, I do not do my own taxes.

So I have a cpa.

Right.

Because they are the experts in that and I don't want to try to figure it out.

I mess it up and probably end up costing me more money than would save.

So it's kind of the same thought process there is that we definitely can or people in our industry can really help.

And we know the ins and outs because we do it every day.

So you're having to teach yourself, you.

Know, you're seeing from other clients that are paying you what works and doesn't work.

Right.

So you kind of have a cheat code because you have all these different good source of information and you can say hey, in this industry, you know, carousel ads are really, that's what's getting your lowest cost per click.

You know, you can really know for industry what's working better because we've kind of been there and done that and.

You are in hours.

I looked at your client list and you do have, especially on the western side, you do have brands.

You want to name it.

Can you name it?

Well, they're on your website so you can name them.

Yeah, yeah.

Do you have a couple that people would recognize in our world?

Yeah, I think so.

Gosh, when I forget somebody.

But we have.

Where it all started for me is Texas high school rodeo.

I started doing their marketing and PR straight out of out of college.

And then I went on to help the era the elite rodeo athletes which happened at one point.

And then we've gone on to help with pro hats.

We have some new fun projects coming up.

Can't talk about but rope like a girl.

Larry D guy.

We help her with her athlete management and then also she has a brand partnership with Hui and so we help Larry D with her brand called Rope like a girl.

And we've done lots of racehorse content and we love the Western industry and so we're in it.

I grew up roping and riding and that's how I got involved.

Athlete management.

There's a whole other topic right there.

But it's fun.

It's fun.

And they're, there's, it's unique because they're so busy, but they have such a value in their brand and an influence with the market.

And they used to be terrible at it, let's be honest.

Fifteen years ago, you know, I've been in this industry now for 40 and 15 years ago, they were terrible at it.

You would pay them and they would do nothing.

And now they've kind of figured out they have to be better at it, too.

Yeah.

I think gone are the days of.

Or even if you do a sponsorship, kind of gone are the days of putting up a banner in the arena or on the side.

Yeah.

Forgetting about it.

Good enough.

You know, it's just not.

And so what I see are these younger athletes are coming in and they.

Because they've been, they've grown up with Instagram and TikTok and everything.

So they, it's like breathing to them.

They know what a brand deal is.

So they get, they get it.

They understand that, hey, if we're going to invest in you, then we're expecting something back.

Yeah.

It used to be the professional would just wear the product and that was, that was the deal.

There was nothing else.

Right.

You just wear the product and those days are gone.

Yeah, but.

And I think it's, it's, it's good for both, because it really does.

The brand can help the athlete out just as much as the athlete can help the brand, because brand has a customer base that's probably larger than what the athlete is usually, you know, getting to speak to.

And so it kind of gives them exposure as well.

I don't think that sometimes that gets thought about.

Yeah, that's a good point.

So last thing before we run out of time.

What's one simple change that retailers could make right now to make an immediate impact on their.

On their marketing?

I think we talked about it just a little bit before, but really start mining your own data and customer list.

If you could start organizing that, it's a little bit of a pain, but the good thing is you can probably put, you know, an admin or somebody on it to start pulling all that together and start utilizing the information you already have.

I mean, think about it.

If you're going to go and pay Meta $500 for an ad, you know, to reach people maybe that have never purchased from you before.

How great would it be to just mine your own data.

Reach out to the people who are already familiar with your brand.

It's just your low hanging fruit.

The other thing I see is that get active on Instagram stories.

Sometimes people get a little, or, you know, TikTok just like your story aspect, people get a little intimidated about making a post to their wall because they want it to be perfect and on brand.

And I just say like on the retail side, let people know whenever you have something new that comes in or a brand, if you have something new that you're working on, give people behind the scenes.

You would be so surprised how many people will say, hey, can I have that in a size small?

I mean, and what did you do?

You just.

It doesn't have to be super professional.

You just have to take people on your journey.

Very good.

Where can people find you?

Yeah, we're on Instagram and Facebook and all the great places.

Firebrand-marketeting and firebrand-marketeting.com.

will you be it?

Will you be at WESA?

I will be.

So my.

We have a booth there.

My son actually has a brand called Vaquero Outdoors that he has started.

And so.

So what do they carry?

What do they do?

Yeah, he.

Well, you give him a plug.

He's 16.

And so we.

When he was started Vaquero Outdoors as kind of a business project to kind of learn about business and then it kind of took off and so he did August at wisa and was he.

The one that got highlighted on TV or something right before the event?

Right before wesa?

Yes.

I talked to him.

I was going to interview him but he was too busy.

He said I don't need to work right now.

But he was feeling a little overwhelmed at that point and rightly so.

I mean he just had this huge in input influx but they.

It was great.

So we're gonna be back.

What were the products again?

He has caps, T shirts, hoodies, long sleeve shirts.

So I think that's who you're talking about.

Yeah, Sophia did a little shout out to him on Instagram and it's been fun.

It's been.

He's learned a whole lot.

And so I guess I'm gonna be there if anybody wants to come say hi.

But I'll be.

You're gonna be the entrepreneur Mom.

Mom.

Yes.

Yeah.

So I'm kind of supporting him in all of those things as well.

Well, I'll definitely See you there then.

I'll make sure to look him up again.

This time I get to interview him.

Yes.

Yeah.

Get to see him in person.

That'll.

That'll be great.

We'll.

We'll carve out some time.

Okay.

Last time he had to leave early because he had to go play football, so he's gonna be there the whole time this time.

Okay, good.

The problems of a working.

A teenage entrepreneur.

Yes.

Well, you should see my dining room table.

It looks like, full of hats and shirts.

It's great, though.

He's learning tons of.

Well, that's great.

It's.

FireBrandMarketing.com is where you can find.

Holly.

Thanks again for joining us.

We appreciate it.

And of course, we'll be back next Monday with another with some more content.

So check us out.

Go to Facebook and definitely find the retail roundup Facebook page and subscribe over there.

And of course, there's the Wisa trade show YouTube channel, the WESA podcast feed.

There's a whole podcast separate from this that goes out of there, and they highlight the brands that are part of.

So you get to learn all about those.

Check that out as well, and I'll look forward to seeing you in a week or two.

Thanks, Holly.

And we'll see you in a couple months.

That's right.

That's right.

Hey, thanks so much for today.

I appreciate it.