Bayan on Demand offers a growing library of courses taught by highly regarded scholars and practitioners. Designed for masjid board members, school administrators, imams, chaplains, youth workers, parents, and more. With classes on Islamic theology, adolescent development, non profit management, and the history of Islam in America and more, Bayan on Demand provides accessible knowledge for just 10 a month. Join our growing community of learners today and support the work of Bayan Islamic Graduate School and the Muhammad Ali Scholarship. Go to bayanonline. org. That's B A Y A N online. org to get more information. Assalamu alaikum. May the peace that only God can give be upon you. Welcome to the American Muslim Podcast presented by Bayan On Demand. I'm your host Imam Tariq El-Amin and it is my pleasure to continue bringing you new conversations each week with leaders from around the country who are serving their communities in a variety of ways. Today, we are blessed to have with us Sheikh Saifullah Muhammad. He is the resident scholar of the Northwest Islamic Community Center, NWICC, and he's the co founder of Salaam Community. Welcome to the podcast. Assalamu

barakatuh. I'm Tariq. JazakAllah khair for having me.

It is my pleasure. It's my honor. So as you have probably heard already, the purpose behind this platform is to lift up not just the work, but to lift up the people who are doing the work, to talk about their journeys. We invite folks to be as transparent, as vulnerable, uh, as they are comfortable being. So with that said, Where did it all start for Sheikh Saifullah?

Yeah, I'm already feeling very comfortable in this room, alhamdulillah, here at CTS. So, for those who know me, my mom is German Irish, American, and my biological father is Pakistani. And I was actually raised Southern Baptist growing up. So, that was a very interesting part of my life, for sure. Growing up Southern Baptist in Southern Illinois. And then, at the age of about eight or nine, my mom met my

stepdad.

Um, and that's when, um, she became Muslim and converted to Islam. And I did as well. So, thinking back, I think the moment that I found out we're no longer Christian, but now we're Muslim. Okay. Um, tried to explain that to an eight year old. Um, it's not that, it's not that easy for sure. I was actually baptized and I, I was, I used to go to Sunday school at the church. So going from that to now, um, you know, putting down a prayer rug, facing the Qibla and praying, um, and looking at a book and following the movements. in the book, try to wrap my mind around what it means to be Muslim and no longer Christian. And the difference is trying to explain that to my siblings. I was the oldest of three siblings. One of the memories I have is, you know, we went to one of our friend's house's, um, first birthday and they were also Christian. So it's Spent the night there and in the morning, it was time to go to church. It was Sunday and I understood we're no longer Christian. Now I'm Muslim. Um, so I didn't go, but my younger brother, he followed the routine and just went on the bus and I go home and my stepfather is like, where's your brother? I'm like. I think he went to church. And he was like, we're not, we're not Christian, we're Muslim now. So that was very interesting moment. But just trying to, you know, learn the new religion and everything. And my mom being a convert, you know, learning with her side by side. Very powerful moment for me.

Even at the

age

of eight, did you feel a connection between the experience in the church, not the ritual, but the feeling? Between that and what you would later. feel in the masjid, or was it just you were just there because your parents brought you there?

No, I think you know growing up. I was always someone who was really involved with religion I really enjoyed you know going to church and later not too long later actually after we became Muslim the The closest mosque to us was about an hour away. So my father would take us there for Sunday school. Um, and I had a lot of connection moments when I connected, you know, being in Sunday school in the church and being in Sunday school in the mosque. And, you know, feeling a sense of purpose in both, I would say, for sure, for me. With Islam, it was more around now learning a new language, right? I was not someone who spoke Arabic. So everything is in Arabic. Um, so it was a little foreign to me, to be honest, in the beginning. Um, for the first couple of years until I was able to, you know, learn it. But, um, you know, within 30 minutes I learned Sufatiha. Really? Yeah, within 30 minutes. And, um, the teacher was completely blown away. the Sunday school teacher. I remember it was an Arab mosque, mostly immigrants from like Saudi Arabia, from the Emirates. It was one of the campus mosques. So they, there were teachers, but there were students. So they were young university students. And the teacher went to my father and he tells a story. I was too young to remember. He tells the story that I memorized the Surah Fatiha within the first 30, 40 minutes. And the teacher is like, you know, Arabic. And he's like, no, I don't know Arabic. And just super surprised that I was able to grasp it that fast. And growing up, they said I had some kind of photographic memory. I wish I still had it, but that's no longer a reality. But yeah, those are some of the very beginning formative memories I have.

So you were in Southern Illinois.

Yes, Marion, Illinois to be specific. Okay. Yeah. So the closest mosque to us was in Carpendale, Illinois. So that's where we would go, um, for like any Middle Eastern food and um, Halal groceries and the mosque was there.

Okay. All right. You're the oldest sibling. I am. I am. I would assume you had a couple of Christmases. A hundred percent. Okay. What was it like for you to go from, in not just being. In your home. Yeah. But everybody else outside is also celebrating. Yeah. But you're in Southern Illinois. You're in Marion, Illinois. Yeah. Not really a hotbed of Islamic activity. Not, not really. So, was it difficult for you in any way making the transition? So,

Honestly, actually, um, it happened really fast. Um, the transit, you know, one day we were Christian, the next day we were Muslim. So, it was not really like kids sitting down, like, you know, we're actually, my mom, because my mom was exploring by herself, to be honest. So, before she married my stepdad, she started exploring the religion, she was reading the Qur'an. Um, before she actually married my stepdad, who was a Sunni Muslim. Um, so, there was that. But also, um, Very quickly, um, my parents, my stepdad, and my mom decided to move us to Chicago. So my mom, I was born in Chicago, and then my mom moved us, um, to southern Illinois to be close with my grandparents. Um, that's where, she grew up in Heron, Illinois, which is not too far from, from Marion. So her parents lived there, and she was raising us as a single mom. My stepfather left our life when I was about two or three years old. Your stepfather? My stepfather. I'm sorry, my biological father. Okay. My biological father left us. Um, my mom was raising us as a single mom, so she brought us closer to her family to have that family support. Right, right. Um, so there was that, but you know, when she married my stepfather, immediately, you know, they had, he had a concern. That, you know, this is not the best environment to raise a Muslim family, just like you were saying. So that's, I think within a couple of months, we actually ended up leaving Marion, Illinois and coming back to Chicago. We moved to Skokie.

If I could just quickly interject.

Yeah.

All right. For those of you who are listening outside of Chicago, not familiar with Chicago, if you go anywhere else in the world, it doesn't matter if you were 30 miles or 40 miles outside of Chicago. You're going to say you're from Chicago. Okay. So Skokie, Schaumburg, Woodfield, it doesn't matter. You're from Chicago. All right. Go. Yeah. No,

no, no. I agree with you. I never grew up telling people I'm from Skokie. I live in Skokie. I live in Chicago, even as 30, 40 minutes away. Um, so yeah, so we moved to Skokie. Um, and so we were with my stepfather's family who are Muslim. So we had that transition so quickly from, Being Christian, Christmas and everything to now all the Muslim holidays.

So you said that the, the teachers at the Sunday school at the week, was that a Sunday school weekend school? It

was

a

Sunday

school. It was a Sunday school at the mosque, at the mosque. So they were impressed, obviously, you know, here's this eight year old kid who's memorized sort of sophatia and, and that's the first chapter of the Quran for those of you who might not be familiar, um, in 30, 40 minutes. Yeah. Were you like? Fast tracked or did they say look we need to get this young man in here We see potential in him.

Honestly, it was funny because I learned Fatiha without knowing Arabic So I, I had, I didn't know the alpha alphabet. It was only by a memory, by listening, right? So they would say something and I would just repeat it. So I was still in the basic class. I was still learning the alphabet, Alif, the A, B, C, D. But I remember it's Fatiha, which was like. How do you do that? Which is a miracle of the Qur'an, He says in the Qur'an, Um, Inna nahnu lahafizoon Right? We are the ones that who revealed the Qur'an. We are the ones who protect it. Right? And Allah then asked, Hal min muddakir? Is there anyone that's going to be to memorize the Qur'an? Allah has made it easy to memorize. And I think that's a manifestation of that, that someone who has not heard the Qur'an ever before in my life before that. Sitting in one class. And being able to memorize the entire first chapter, which is about five or six lines within one hour of Sunday school. I mean, it's pretty amazing.

Yeah. Yeah. I know we're jumping back. We're going to come back to these formative years, but now as a resident scholar, as somebody who continues to pursue education, right, as a seeker of knowledge, when you look back on that, how does that make you feel?

Hanla, I've never actually looked back. I think this is the first time I've never, I've never, like, actually, just remembering the story, actually, this is the first time I'm actually recalling the story, to be 100 percent honest. Today, my mom, just before this podcast, was sending me baby pictures of myself. So now this is all like coming back to me, um, but yeah, I think SubhanAllah, it's just amazing to see where I started from and where I ended up. I mean, my mom always tells the story that, you know, I was born in an apartment here in Lakeshore Drive and one of the, one of the skyscrapers here on Lakeshore. And, um. My biological father left the room to go get something for my mom and my mom ends up giving birth to me in the apartment. She goes into labor right then and there and she, she tells a story that she remembers like just giving birth and I'm the first child and she was like, I don't know what happened. I just wake up and you're in my hands and she tells a story and she was like, from that day, I knew that you were going to do something special. So, you know, I dedicate a lot of this to my mother. The, the, my journey and my, um, my perseverance and the support that I received from her, both spiritual and emotional, and that has allowed me to get to this point.

Hmm. Mashallah. Uh, obviously she is very proud of you on the left. Let's delve into, uh, identity a little bit. So you said your mom is German Irish, German, Irish, French, German, Irish, French, and your stepdad. Is a Pakistani.

Yeah. So my biological father and my stepfather, both are Pakistani.

Okay. All right. Okay. All right. So that did work. Yeah. All right. As it relates to the melding of cultures the intersection of culture for you What was that like was that something that was observable to you at any particular point Where you saw yourself as the representation of two cultures coming together.

Yeah, you know, this is interesting. I, I didn't think about this until we had a class on intersectionality. Yeah. Once we had that class, kind of starting putting the pieces together, but.

Yeah.

So I grew up on Devon area in West Rogers Park. Shout out

Usmaniyas.

Yes. Yeah. So growing up in the Devon area for me. It's a mostly Indo Pak, Desi community. Me presenting myself as a more Caucasian white kid. It was very difficult, actually, growing up and being part of a madrasa, which is a traditional place of learning of the Qur'an. I was always the odd one out, right? I didn't speak the language. I wasn't really used to the food at that point. Uh, I didn't present myself as, you know, Pakistani. So I always had a sense of not fitting in, um, too well. And that's true for myself and my two siblings. So it was three of us, and all three of us were like the odd ones out. Um, so it was actually very difficult, I would say, growing up with a mixed identity, because I didn't really I have a chance to connect to my Pakistani side for many years. And then when I was moved from Marion, Illinois to Chicago, all of a sudden I was thrown into this Indo Pak fully community. And anyone who's been to Divan, they know it's literally like Pakistan India. Like you're just walking on the streets. I just came back from Pakistan. There's no difference. So you're walking on the streets and there's no more sense of like connected to my mom's side, the white Caucasian side. of things. So I always felt very confused, I would say, growing up, to be honest. Um, until it was not until my later years when I grew up and I came back and I served the community, I was able to reconcile both sides of my identity.

Now, how were you able to do

that? Honestly, I think it's just by serving the community and seeing myself in the community. You know, we have so many different parts, especially the community I serve. Very diverse. Um, community, you know, you have Americans, you have, you have people from Pakistan, India, you have people from the Middle East, and you have people from, you know, Asia. So you have all these people, and then you have the convert community, the white and the black Americans. So just being able to, um, really serve them all, I finally became comfortable in my own shoes as a white Pakistani, um,

man.

Mm.

Mm. You know, it really is something that so much of how we see ourselves. It's also a reflection of how others see us. And there's some dissonance that can be a part of that because you are as much Pakistani as you are, uh, uh, white, German, uh, Irish, French, right? But to the eye, it's you automatically get put into a box, right? Is there anything that you point to in your study of Islam that has expanded your sense of self identity?

Yeah, I think, you know, you know, when you look at the Islamic tradition, it's so beautiful because you have statements where The Qur'an is very clear that Inna khalaqnakum untha We created you from male and female Waja'alnakum shu'uban wa qabaila li ta'arafu We made you into tribes and to nations that you may get to know one another Um, so you see this clear, um, setting of the tone Right, that, you know, there's It doesn't really matter where we come from It doesn't really matter the color of our skin It doesn't matter the language that we speak And then you have the statement of the Prophet Sallallahu alayhi wa alayhi wa sallam Where he says Inna Allah la yanzur ila surikum Right, Allah does not look at your shapes of your body and your color of your skins. He looks at your hearts and your actions. And I think so, um, you know, Islam kind of sets the tone for us, how we should be looking at the world. Unfortunately, a lot of times we have these ideas. other lens that we put on, but sometimes you take a step back and put the Quranic Islamic lens on to actually see the world. So I think, um, learning the tradition for me and actually going deeper into my studies is really another reason I would say for sure that has allowed me to be the person that I am.

Okay. So speaking of your studies, you mentioned that you were at a, uh, madrasa. In the Devon, the Rogers Park area, right? So, what was, uh, so in addition, aside from it being a space we felt like, you know, the odd one out, on a positive note, what are some of the positive things that you took from that, and where did that lead you to?

To be honest, I think that was a very important time in my life, being able to connect with the book of God. I studied at SOFA Educational Guidance, which is right in the middle of Devon. Um, right on top of World Food Market across from Jama Masjid. So everyone who is familiar with Divan, they know that area. And it's still there today, actually. It's still running. They have a branch now in Skokie, but it's still running as their main branch. So being able to go there at such a young age and connect with the Book of God, you know, and really spend my day and night. It took me about five years, five to six years, depending on who you ask, to actually memorize the Qur'an, which is, quite longer than it takes other children. Um, usually the, the average time, two to three years, yeah, that's like the average time you have your outliners, those who memorize the entire book, um, and I remember one of our classmates in six months and one of my teachers, um, in Pakistan, which I think we'll talk about later on, he memorized the entire Quran in a month. What in a month? And guess which month That was In the month of Ramadan?

No.

Yeah. In the month of Ramadan, he would memorize a ju a day. One part a day. So the Koran, for those who are not familiar with it, are divided into 30 parts. He would memorize one part every single night until he memorize

I feel like my head is about to explode. Um, like what? Yeah. What.

Yeah.

Okay. So, you know, five, six years is a little bit longer on the longer side, but, um, it was because, you know, I struggled, with the Arabic language, but that struggle was beautiful for me because I had my mother by my side the whole entire time. I remember I would open my Qur'an in Arabic and she would open the English version. And one of my most fondest memories, and I've said this in, A lot of my programs at my mosque and when I travel, Surah Maryam, you know, the chapter of Mary. May God's blessings and peace be upon her. I would read one verse in Arabic and then she would read the English Yusuf Ali, I really remember it was a red cover Yusuf Ali translation And she would just read the English and that's how I remember Isfah Mariam and just having that moment My mother, you know, she could not read Arabic But you know She loved you know the recitation and she would encourage me to continue reciting and beautifying my voice and then she would read the English And that's how I memorized, and that's how I learned Surah Maryam. And that was the one surah that memorized the English and the Arabic together, side by side. Right, because the traditional mothers said they don't teach you English, so you're just reading the Arabic. So, yeah, so I spent my five, six years, and that was the motivation that I had. My teacher told me that, you know, Sayfullah, you finished the Qur'an now, but you don't know what it means. You don't know anything beyond the recitation. And I was like, yeah, that's a good point. I memorized five, six years, but I don't know what it means. So that's when I took the step to, you know, continue further on. Okay. So what did a

day look like for you there?

And the Madrasa. Yeah. Yeah. So Madrasa days would be very tough. You know, some of the days would be before Fajr, waking up before Fajr, um, and sitting with my, my Quran in the living room with my two siblings. So my brother and my sister also memorized the Quran. I was actually the last one to finish. I'm the oldest and I was the last one to finish. So kind of say something about our dynamic. But, you know, setting up, memorizing, praying Fajr, doing breakfast, and then going to Madrasa. Sometimes 6. 30, 7 o'clock in the morning and, um, being one of the first students there and sometimes the door is not even open and my parents are waiting to, for the door to open and going and then we had a full day from, you know, 7 o'clock all the way into 4. 30. That's when everyone was able to go home, but because I struggled as a student, sometimes I would actually have to stay beyond. So we had a full time and then they had a part time class, which started at 4. 30 and went all the way on to 6, 6. 30. And sometimes I would actually have to say, if I didn't pass my lesson for the day, um, I would actually have to stay. So, um, I would stay until 6, 630. So sometimes, you know, especially in the Chicago winter, I'm getting out in the dark and coming back home when it's completely dark outside.

And that can mess with you. It can, it can,

it can. And so, but yeah, that's kind of how it was. And then coming home, eating dinner and then reading again until, um, 9, 930. Until it was bedtime.

So you would just be re reading and testing yourself? There was a particular amount that you had to memorize each day? Correct. Okay.

Yeah, so, you know, starting that starts with a couple of lines, then it goes to a page, then I think towards the end of my studies when I was closer to the finishing, um, I think I was doing about four to five pages a day, which is almost a quarter of a, um, juz of the Quran.

Hmm. Hmm. So you left from Rogers Park, and where did you head to after that?

Yeah, so, you know, after finishing the Quran, I did homeschooling, so I was able to finish my studies a little earlier on, um, in comparison to other students. Because I kind of just took the tests and the exams and kind of whatever the curriculum my parents had designated for myself. And yeah, at the age of 15 I went overseas, um, to Pakistan. So, that's a, um, quite interesting journey. Got to go to the other homeland. Yeah, I got to visit the homeland, um, and, you know, connect with my Pakistani roots. What was that like? Yeah, you know, SubhanAllah, anything that I could kind of try to think about how it's going to be, like how it's going to look, how are the people going to be, completely different. And before that actually, so on the way there, I stopped in Mecca. So I got to do Umrah with my father, my stepfather, and that was the first time leaving the country like many of us Americans, we like to stay, you know, in the country at home, you know, so being able to travel overseas So we traveled overseas to Mecca and I remember seeing the streets and you know The first thing I remember as a kid is like, this is really dirty Like just being thankful for you know, the the country that we live in and you know The cleanliness that we have here That was a big culture shock for me. Just the way, you know, people just throw things on the ground and stuff like that, which doesn't really gel well with the religion. I mean, our religion is about cleanliness. And I didn't really see that there growing up. Um, but yeah, just going to a completely different country. I understood the language, but I didn't speak the language. So

you speak

Urdu? I do. I do speak Urdu. So I speak English, Arabic, Urdu, and I understand Punjabi. So, um, yeah. Is it polyglot? Yeah, somewhat. So, I understood the language, but I didn't speak the language going there. Okay. Which was actually another hurdle I had to overcome. Because, um, for those who have visited Pakistan, um, English doesn't really Worked that well there. And first of all, I look like a foreigner. Everyone can tell if I speak English. It's a dead giveaway that you know, this guy is from America and for security concerns, it was a big thing not speaking English. So I was, you know, kind of forced in a very short period Urdu.

That seems to be the common refrain for anybody that's looking to gain fluency. You need to be immersed. Yeah. In that

area. You know, same thing with my Arabic. The university I attended, um, it was a full Arabic curriculum university. So it was a full same immersion program. So within six months, we were all speaking Arabic. And then from six months onwards, the second semester of the year, everything was in Arabic. So we were told like you have six months, that's all we're giving you, that's all the, the room that you have and you know, so yeah, we were kind of just thrown into it. I understood Urdu because of growing up in Divan area and everyone speaking Urdu. I was just, you know, not comfortable with the accent and, you know, pronouncing some things. It's a completely different language. So I just had to get over that hurdle to be able to actually start speaking.

Yeah, yeah, there's definitely a confidence issue. Yeah. That probably holds a lot of people back.

Yes, 100%.

It's different if you're around people who are also learning, but being around native speakers, Yeah. it's like, I don't want to make a fool of myself.

Exactly, 100%. And the funniest thing was like, look, our English is not perfect. Look at the mistakes that we make in English, but we're still speaking it. I'm like, yeah, they were making some really, some really big mistakes for us, but they were still speaking English. Like, at least the people I interacted with. They had a sense of wanting to try to communicate with me and try to talk to me. So that kind of gave me a confidence, uh, motivational boost to kind of say, you know what, they're speaking English. Why can't I speak Urdu? And just let it go from there.

Well, you've sort of touched on this and what I'm thinking about is I'm always looking for threads and I feel like One of them that I see is adaptability, right? It's being willing to take on new circumstances and challenges. And the other is, is fearlessness. Would you agree?

Uh, to some what I would say, you know, maybe, um, With room to improve, a young Saifullah for sure, but um yeah for sure I think a lot of that comes back to my mom and her mentally preparing me to be able to go into this environment and that motivational boost you know that you get from the motherly love that you know you can do this and you just put your whatever you put your mind to you can do it. It's very difficult to leave your home. Leave your country, leave all the amenities that we have here in America to go to a third world country. When I went there, the first thing people told me were like, people dream their entire life to go from here, from Pakistan, to go to the U. S. to study. They do whatever they can, but you're doing the opposite. You're leaving America and coming here. So they could not wrap their mind around that. Like, why is this white kid coming here? But I went there with a goal set in my mind that I have to I have to study, I have to gain the knowledge, and then I want to come back and serve my community. Why did you want to do that? Yeah, that's a very good question. I think, um,

And before you go any further, let me give a little bit more context to that question. Why did you make that decision at such a young age? The the allure for you.

Yeah To be 100 percent honest no filters. A lot of it was my father telling me I have to go Wanted to go to So, I, I love Egypt. I, I got to go to Egypt last year for the first time and it was amazing. Really? Everything, just being there, walking the streets, the history that's attached to Egypt. From the Islamic perspective and, you know, the ancient Egypt as well. I'm into like Yu Gi Oh as a kid and, you know, all the pharaohs and all that kind of stuff. So, it was a dream of mine to go there, but I really wanted to study in Al Azhar, you know, growing up. I saw a couple of Masha'ikh, um, in the U. S. who came from Egypt, specifically Imam Suhaib Webb and other scholars who came back from there, and I said, you know, that's the place I want to go. It's still in my mind when you look at Islamic institutions, that's like the Harvard or Yale of the Muslim world. So, but that time in 2011 12 situations, political situations were not too good there, so my father was like, you can't go there. So he gave me three options. He gave me the option of New York or Buffalo. He gave me, um, Darun Beri, that's in, um, the UK, or, um, to go to Pakistan. And, um, you know, the, the biggest, um, pro that I saw going to Pakistan was the Arabic curriculum. You know, I said, I want to learn Arabic. I want to connect with the Quran. And they had the strongest curriculum for Arabic. So that was one of the main reasons. But for me, it started with motivation from my parents. You know, you have to do this. And then as I started doing it, I started finding myself loving studying the Quran, loving like reading Fatiha and knowing what it means, like reading a verse and not having to open a translation of the Quran. So that was one thing. Second thing was, you know, just being able to actually really believe in what I, what I believe, right? If that makes sense, like being a Muslim, like, cause I was kind of, Pushed into Islam as a young kid Um, and memorizing the Qur'an That was kind of pushed on us as well But now at this point I got to learn Islam And as I was like relearning Islam For the first time almost Um, from the basics and going up and advancing I started just loving it more and more I found myself, um, you know Reading more, you know, really diving into the books And, uh, I just found myself, um, starting to Um, and I think it's important for us to develop this attachment with, um, learning and with Islam.

Now, we're both in the Doctor of Ministry program here at the Anislamic Graduate School, but you have continued to pursue education outside of this institution and other institutions. What is your driving force for the acquisition of all of this knowledge?

Yeah, I just feel, um You know, looking at the Islamic tradition, it's like a sea of knowledge. Um, and the Quran, as our teachers would say, It's a fountain that does not stop giving. And I just find myself, as I continue to study and as I continue to walk on this path, I just, you know, my teacher would tell us that, You know what you don't know. You know what you don't know. I've heard

it the opposite. I've heard you don't know what you don't know.

Oh yeah, no, you know what you don't know. You know what you don't know. When you are knowledgeable, right, and you find yourself like when you have studied a little bit, you understand that what I know in comparison to what is out there is equal to almost like a drop from an ocean. I find myself more motivated every single time that I take a class and, you know, from the time that I graduated, then I went from, you know, my B. A. program, uh, came back to the U. S. and I joined Bayan and I did my M. Div. And then from my M. Div. I went to, to do an Iftar program, which is a training, traditional training to give fatwa. For Mufti. To become Mufti. Yeah. So I started that program and then. I was doing that, but then I said, you know what, I can't stop doing the academic side as well. So then I found myself back at Vayan studying more, and now I'm doing them both, um, simultaneously side by side. The Iftar program and the Iftar training. I took a little break to do the doctoral research and the dissertation, but I find myself, um, Kind of drawn in both sides, you know, the traditional studying, which I love picking up books and reading what scholars have written and what they're talking about, but also the context that we live in and, you know, having the Western kind of studies, uh, and the tools that Bayan give us the more practical side of things. So I find them, um, both Pairing beautifully together in my own life. And that's why I've, I feel like I've been motivated to continue studying. Uh, I don't know how many years it's been. I don't think I've had any breaks since I started memorizing the Quran. So I'm looking forward to, yeah, no, not really.

Wow. Now let me see. So we're a class of, for the MDiv, we're a class of 2022, which means that started what, 2019, 2019. Yep. So that's how many years? That's six years. All right, most folks look at you and really see like this prodigy right now, it goes away the older you get, right? But for this period of time, right, you've, you've done a lot at a very young age, right? At a very young age, if you don't mind me asking, how old are you now? I'm 27. 27. So you're not as young. You were, so you were 21. Yep. When we first met. I was. Yeah, I was thinking, man, this, this brother is, this brother is, he is, he is something else. He is just, you know, he's already out here working, right? Uh, but looking back just in six years. From your 21 year old self to your 27 year old self, what are some of the changes or some of the ways that you've grown since then?

Yeah, that's, um, subhanAllah, it's, it's crazy. You'd have to ask my wife. Oh really? I think she can better speak on that, but no, it's just beautiful to kind of see, How we are molded, you know, um, in these very formative years of our life, I think. I joined Bayan at a very crucial time. I was an imam, um, I just started my imam career path. Uh, a year or two before that, um, and from there I was actually, when I got accepted to Bayan, I was already teaching in an Islamic school, I was teaching in one of the biggest Islamic schools. Shout out to Imam Jihad Turk, uh, that's, his family, his father, rahmatullahi alayhi ma'allah, have, um, blessing, peace and blessing on him that, you know, he was part of that community. So that's how I got to know Imam Jihad. Oh really? Okay. Um, so, um, being at that school. That was the first interaction we had, but yeah, it was one of the biggest Islamic schools, um, from Multistorey all the way to 12th grade. Um, it was a college prep school as well. So students would graduate with, um, you know, associate degrees in sciences. So I got a job as a teacher for sacred sciences and being the imam of the school. And that was very, very, um, very I would say important for me in my development, it was a different setting. You know, usually you're in the mosque setting. Mm-hmm You giving and teaching to going to the school setting where, you know, you're with all these kids. And I, I started teaching third, fourth grade and I went all the way to 12th grade. And between me and the the, the kids in the, in eight and 12th grade were like a year or two difference So it, it was mind blowing to like be able, but I, I. You know, being in that environment and seeing the difficulties that young youth face growing up in the U. S. and, you know, trying to, you know, um, I would say grapple with their identity, talking about identity, being American, Pakistani, American, Palestinian, American, uh, let's say, Egyptian. Kind of all these multiple, because they're born here and their parents came from other countries. Right. So I just found so many gaps in, you know, my knowledge and how I could support. So coming to Bayan, it couldn't have been a more perfect time. Um, to be able to get the tools that Bayan offered us, you know, from the different classes. So like counseling Muslim with Dr. Hamada, um, and his wife, um, Dr. Zarina, right? To, I, I did classes on, you know, facilitating Islamic rituals with, um, Sheikh Fuad, right? And, um, all the different classes that we had throughout our journey in the Imdiv and now going into the doctoral program just equipped. Me, myself, with the tools that I needed, and I felt like now I'm at a point that Alhamdulillah, I look back at it and I said SubhanAllah, it's been, it doesn't feel like six years. You say six years, but I feel like I just came to CTS. Right. Just like last week. But seeing the growth in myself as well, and you know, I think being more assertive as a American imam, scholar, and serving our community. And having the tools that I need to actually serve my community in a better way. Not just the Muslim community, but the entire Minnesota community. I see myself as a leader, not just for, you know, my mosque, but, you know, the communities I'm very involved with interfaith work. I just came back from Jordan, um, where we went and visited refugees camps, um, Syrian and Palestinian refugee camps, and being able to go and serve humanity. Yeah. Um, I just look at it and I say, Alhamdulillah. You know, it just comes to mind the du'a of the Prophets in the Qur'an where he says, O Allah, give me the ability to continue to be thankful for the blessings that you have given me and upon my parents, huh? And, um, the ability just to be in this place I, I look at as a great, um, trust and an amana that I ask Allah to continue to give me is that fastness to be able to continue to serve.

Ameen. Ameen. So what is your, and I know that the classic Muslim answer, if you ask any Muslim, you know, what is your example of leadership? They're going to say prophet Muhammad. So I don't want you to give me the classic answer. What is leadership to you and how do you feel you contribute to its positive expression?

Yeah, you kind of took that, the servant leadership option out of the options, but you know, after doing our leadership courses and we're in the doctorate of leadership, you know, looking at all these different models, I kind of find myself as a mix of all of them, but if I had to lean into one a little bit more, I think I'm more inclined towards transformative. I find it as a blessing to be in this place, right? A place to serve God's creation, right? Um, you know, and I find it as, you know, A blessing. That's why the Hadi of the prophet comes to my mind, um, where he says, man, whoever God wishes, good for you, He gives them the understanding of the religion, right? And that leader, that understanding is completely paired with leadership, right? It's the action, right? How do you put what you've learned into action? Right? Because we're called to be active Muslims, right? Um, we're called to actually serve, not just to keep it to ourselves. But we were told that actually some nations were destroyed in the past because, you know, they learned Islam, they held on to themselves, and they didn't give it to others. They didn't actually apply that in their lives. So, um, being able to apply that and live leadership and see the changes that it brings in people's life and, and the communities around us, you know, seeing the bridges that we're able to bring and make when we have, you know, for example, Muslim Christian dialogue, right? You know, I was just part of the MLK breakfast in Minnesota where they brought an imam, a pastor and a rabbi, um, that was hosted by General Mills, and there's like 4, 000 people that watch the pre recording and the recording every single year. And we kind of talked about, you know, the, the, the gift that God has given us to be able to serve the communities that we serve, and the way that's all interconnected, um, in terms of all the, the service actually leads you back to God, right? Because the best of people, as the Prophet saw some says, All right. The best of people are those who benefit, um, society as much as possible. So I, that's how kind of, I think hopefully that answers the question.

No, I think that's great. Um, leadership being an expression of utility, the most useful, that is also a mark of value. Give us a little insight into the Muslim community or communities in Minnesota. What's it like?

You know, it's a very diverse community. It's a growing Muslim community. We have about 90 something mosques all in, uh, in Minnesota. Wow. Wow. But in the Twin Cities, which is St. Paul and Minneapolis and the suburbs surrounding them, we have about 65 mosques.

Okay.

Um, so very diverse community, um, you know, people from all parts of the world and it's a continued growing community for people who want to actually bring their family. It's very family oriented. So a lot of Young families move there to actually establish themself and start to, you know, put down roots to raise families.

So do you feel like, uh, is Minnesota, is it home now, or is that, I might be getting you in trouble. I

hope not. No, I find myself now after all of these years, you know, I started my journey, my Imam journey in Atlanta, Georgia. That was my first. That's how I know Imam Suleyman Hamid, shout out to Imam Suleyman, our classmate, um, that's where I met him. That's where I heard about Bayan actually for the first time, because he was a student at Claremont School of Theology where Bayan was there. So I looked up to him, you know, Mashallah, great Imam serving community. So and I was the Imam of Medina Institute in Duluth, Georgia. So we had that relationship, but you know, from there I went. to Arkansas. I went to Arizona, moved back to Wisconsin for some time and then ended up in Minnesota. I never thought for a second that I would stay in Minnesota. It was kind of just like a stepping stool. You know, you have that, I'm here, but I really want to get here. Right. Right. So don't unpack the bags. Go too deep. But you know, I looked at it, I was like, who's going to be in Minnesota? And I had job offers at the time from Austin, Texas, Florida, other parts of the U. S. So, I kind of moved back for my wife. She was in mid school at that time. She was an undergrad and she was going to, applying to mid school. For me, Minnesota was never the end goal, right? But when I met, um, another shadow, Ustad Tamim Saeedi, he's also a classmate. Um, he's one of the founders of our mosque, and he's also a balance member. Get out of here. Yeah. Didn't know that. Yeah, so we actually met, and the, how it actually unfolded was we were in class, we were in the Dr. Jihad Brown's class for leadership and spirituality. And I mentioned this, the case study that I came up with, um, where the mosque that I was at at that time, I'm not going to say the name. I don't want to give them any hate. I gave a khutbah on domestic violence. It was Domestic Violence Awareness Month, October. Right. And the board came back to me and said, you have to retract your statements.

Really?

Yeah. And I said, I'm not going to. I came to class that, that was the first class we had and the second class I think we had in person. And that's where I met Tamim and we were in the same class and I was talking about the issues I was facing with the board and how they want me to retract my statements on domestic violence. And I said, I can't do that.

Like,

you know, it's an issue and I'm going to continue talking about it. And that's when he was like, why don't you come visit Minnesota? And I said, uh, I was nice. You know how we always say inshallah, you know, that inshallah, that means, who knows. But I said, inshallah. He was like, no, no, no, come. So he followed up. And, um, I remember telling my wife I was in Wisconsin that time. I was like, I'm not going to go to Minnesota. And she was like, just go for three days. It was like two or three days, like, interview process. Just go see the community. At least, you know, you gave your word. Which, Islamically, you should fulfill your word. And I was like, of course, that makes sense. So I'm going to do it. It was during winter time in December as well. So I go there and I found Minnesota to be extremely cold. Um, I stepped outside of the hotel and I slipped on ice. I slipped on ice right when I left. Yeah. Um, so it was like, like inches thick ice. And Minnesota, right now we're like negative 30, 30 yesterday. So it's,

it's pretty balmy here in Chicago. Yeah. Compared comparatively.

Yeah. It's way colder. And so I was like, I'm not gonna stay here. There's no way. But then when I met the community, I saw. The warmness of the hearts of the community. I was like, I can't, I can't go anywhere else.

So, and

the board, they gave me two days to accept the offer. They said this offer is only valid for two days. So you have to say yes or no. But now I think, looking back at it, I had an opportunity last year to leave. And go to Dallas, which is like the hub of the Muslim world, of Muslim America. It's like all, all kind of, um, centered in Dallas. Yeah. Um, but, you know, looking back now, I think, I, I find myself, Every single time I want to leave Minnesota, something just pulls me back. And I, I can't leave Minnesota now, so. All right. Hopefully my wife doesn't get mad about Minnesota. I pray Inshallah it's going to be home for us.

Inshallah. Inshallah. That's beautiful. Now, I am intentionally not being specific with this question. What are some of the things that you feel are important for American Muslims at this particular time, uh, in this climate, this social and political climate that we find ourselves in?

Yeah,

I, I

think, you know, you're leaving very wide, really open. So, I think this is prime time for Muslims, to be honest, in the West. Mm hmm. I think Um, especially in the last couple of years, um, we have been able to shape the narrative, um, what it means to be American Muslims, positive contributors to society, not this fake image that the media and, you know, what everyone wants to portray, we're not all terrorists, you know, we're not trying to do any of that kind of stuff. And especially with Gaza now, right, and what's going on in Palestine. We have a lot of eyes on us when it comes to people looking out, um, from outward, inward. And I think so, this is time for us to really show what it means to be Muslims. I mean, Alhamdulillah, we are very blessed in Minnesota to have Muslims that serve on many different aspects of the government. You know, from, you know, Senators, to Governors, to Attorney Generals, you know. Um, so we have a lot of that, Alhamdulillah. And I think that needs to continue, too. move forward. I think so. We need to break this bubble that we are in, right? Um, I no longer call back home, back home. This is my home. I don't have a back home to be honest.

That's a huge, huge statement, a huge shift.

Yeah.

Coming from being a student of Imam Warith Muhammad, he emphasized our collective responsibility for the progress of this nation and that we are tied to it. Now, you know, some folks may think that the grass is greener somewhere else, but, um, I don't agree with that. I believe that where Allah has placed us in this particular place and time to execute our responsibilities of Khalifa of stewardship. So, uh, it's just, it's refreshing to hear that because unfortunately I hear people. Talking about why I'm getting out of here, and, you know, and I'm not hating on dual citizenship folks, are you familiar with, uh, David Goggins, you know, he's, he's this, um, uh, seal, like motivational speaker, you know, he's got this, uh, saying they were going through training and they're desperately tired, they haven't slept and they've been doing a bunch of physical activity. And everybody's ready to fall out and he jumps up and he picks up this, this boat that, you know, they have to carry. And he, he started screaming, who's going to carry the boats? Who's going to carry the boats? It's like, it doesn't matter if you're tired, if you're thirsty, if you're hungry, if you're frustrated, if we don't carry it, who's going to carry it? So That's my, that's, that's.

No, Mashallah, beautiful. A lot of times I think when it comes to the immigrant community, those who have left their homes, I mean, I'm sure there is a longing to go back, right? I just visited, um, Amman. I keep going back to that, but, you know, seeing the refugees there in the situation, dire situation. Um, story, we met, we went to this home, one of the refugee camps, the biggest refugee camp in the world, one of them. And two Palestinian, um, like, aunties. They're like, almost grandmother age, almost 70 years old, losing their eyesight. Um, and you can just see the situation. So the entire family is gone. Everyone has either been killed or passed away. And they're just two sisters by themselves now. And just, you know, You know, we came, I went with a, um, humanitarian organization and we were visiting them, fighting, asking what you need, they were like, we only speak to Allah, we don't need anything from people.

Wow.

And, and the first thing we said from America, and they didn't really like the fact that we were from America.

Yeah.

But, um, just seeing their resilience and we asked them, what do you want? They were like, we want to go back to Iraq. Philistine, we go back to our country. Yeah. And I, I find that beautiful. 'cause that's their land. Right. They, they have a Right. But someone like myself, who I was born in this country,

right,

right. I find it every single time I use my bull passport to leave the country and I come back. I feel the burden on the back of my shoulders that we need to work together to. Make this country a better country, right? I love the country. I mean The blessings that I have but there's a lot of work that still needs to be done

right,

and we need to continue working towards a More prosperous future for all of us.

Yeah

combined. I find you know That there's nothing that happens by coincidence. Mm

hmm,

right? It's not coincidentally that we have been sent here to this country And I'm serving as a imam or, you know, imam or residence scholar here in this country, but we're here for a purpose. Sure. Right? And we have to fulfill that purpose. That's what motivates me as well for leadership as well, to, you know, work towards a more prosperous future.

I asked this question to a previous guest, and I want to pose it to you as well. When we're told in the Quran that Allah has brought us out for the benefit of humanity, right? Not for. For our selfish desires as a model, as an aid, as a guide for humanity, how do you see your leadership? How do you see your pursuits aiming towards that goal? What would you aspire to see to be the end result that benefits not just your community, but benefits humanity?

I just I pray for a day where we can start to. Um, look, look forward and working together where we can, you know, not just think about ourselves and not just the Muslim community and not just, you know, the bubbles that we're in, but we see this country as a whole. Everyone who is in need, right? From the different sectors to homelessness, to those who don't have medical coverage, those who are fighting substance abuse, those who may be struggling with mental health. Just, you know, really the mission of the Prophet Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam, right? The Prophet was not rahmatan lil muslimeen. That's right. He was not a mercy for the Muslims, right? He was rahmatan lil alameen. He was a mercy for all of God's creation. Alameen is everything other than God. The humans, the animals. Right, how the Prophet took care of his animals. He named his horses and the rides that he used to use. To the plants, I mean, I really, um, Ustadh Tamim, shout out to him again. I don't know any other Prophet that went and hugged a tree. The Prophet went and hugged a tree. And you may be looking at that and say, you know what, but he was a rahma, he was a mercy.

You have to share this story. Muslims are familiar, but I believe this is of great value that demonstrates the beauty of

Rasulullah salallahu alayhi wa sallam. So the story goes that when the Prophet went to Medina and he started giving his sermons, he would hold this tree. You know, some of the mosques, we have an asa, we have a cane that we hold. So the Prophet would do that as he would give the sermon. And the community started to grow, the Muslims started to grow. So the sahaba came to the companions and said, Oh Prophet of God, let us make for you a mimber, a pulpit, so you can stand and give the sermon from on top of the pulpit. So he said, okay, you can. They ended up making the pulpit in a different area, a different place, not where he used to stand. So the first In this instance of him giving the sermon, he goes to the pulpit, they hear a crying, and he sits down and stops. He stands up again and the crying begins again. So the Prophet gets off and he goes and he finds this tree and he puts his hand on this tree and he hugs this tree and the Prophet of God, then he tells the hadith that if I was not to hug this tree and show kindness and mercy to this tree, this tree would have cried until the Day of Judgment. The Prophet of God had this relationship with everything around him because he's unconditional mercy. He's the genesis of mercy being born into this world. I think that it centers, you know, the mission of, um, us as Muslims. The Qur'an is not just for the Muslim. But it's for the entire world, right? And I, we have to start looking beyond just ourselves. We need to look at everyone as a whole, right? Because the prophet of God tells us that kullu adam all of you are from children of Adam wa adam min turab and Adam came from dust, right? That's your lineage. We have a connection to all of creation and we have to work towards, you know, benefiting all of creation.

Ah, beautiful narration. Beautiful narration. MashaAllah. Do you have any, any current projects or is there anything that you're working on that the listening family should know about?

Yeah, Alhamdulillah, you know, I think projects continue to go on. There's always, you finish one project and you see another one you have to start. I think a lot of us who are in this field, we don't know what it means to have self care. And, um, so yeah, alhamdulillah, you know, recently to continue this idea of serving community, you know, being in Minnesota for the last five years now, um, I, I've served different capacities, you know, in my mosque as a resident scholar, um, someone who contributes to interfaith and multi faith, you know, circles, but also the university students. And I, I think so, growing up, kind of going back to my childhood, um, I always had this, you know, not, completely positive, um, relationship, religion, because of the people that I saw, the imams, and how I wasn't able to talk to them. You know, this idea that, you know, they're big scholars and imams. And we were actually really scared of them, to be honest. And I never had someone I could talk to, so, you know, growing up and doing my studies, I said, you know, I want to go back, I want to serve. I want to serve the community, I want to serve youth, and I want to be able to be someone that can relate to, be friends with them, and break that barrier. So I've been serving, you know, as a sheikh that comes to campus and works with the MSA, we have AMCC, Al Medina Cultural Center, I give once a month khutbah at the church. I saw a gap in, you know, the, in the community. Which was, the Muslim students didn't have a space for themselves. When you look on campus, you see, you know, the Christians, they have campus churches. Right, and we pray Jummah on campus in a church. When you look at the Jewish students, they have, you know, the halals where they have the Jewish student, um, you know, associations and bodies where they can go. But the Muslims don't have anything for themselves. We have a small room, which is a cultural room. It's not even an Islamic room. It's a cultural room given by the university. University. Mm-hmm Which there's a lot of limitations and everything. And I, I was involved, I hope I can say this, I was involved with encampments when, when, you know, oh, of course you can. A love that was going on. Um, but yeah, I was involved, I was part of that, and I, I was the only imam that went and, um, stayed with the students for four days in the encampment. Mm. As long as our encampment wasn't that long. Hamdullah, we were able to get things done, right? We just get things done in Minnesota, So within four days, Hamdullah, we were able, but I bought, I got a tent, the first tent, and I put a sleeping bag. I'm like, I'm staying here. I told my ma I didn't even get permission, so I'm gonna stay here until this is done. And I was the only imam other than one other imam, um, but everyone was like, you know, media, you know It's gonna be bad for our mosque and I was like, you know, these are our Muslim students Someone has to be there with them. Yeah, and I'm gonna be there with them So I saw that you know during the encampment time the university shut down everything and we weren't able to get access to this one Cultural room where we had all of our stuff and that didn't sit well with me I said, that's not fair. You know, that's the only room that we have on campus Muslims, and we have all of our resources, everything there. Right. Um, and we, we basically have access to that room on their terms. Yeah. I said, it can't be like that anymore. You know, we are in 2025 for 2025 now. We need to have access. We need to have a space of our own when we can access it on our terms. That's right. And so, Alhamdulillah, with a group of people, um, shout out to Dr. Rabia Khan, our other classmate. She's one of our board members. We came up with this idea of Salam Community, which is going to be, Inshallah, the first of its kind in Minnesota, which is going to be a Muslim youth space on campus. So it's a three story building. There's a coffee shop on the bottom, coffee and halal food, um, that actually funds the entire building because all the profits go back to Salam. And then there's Salam Community. So you have Salaam Coffee, you have Salaam Community, which is the third space, the space where, you know, people can just come in my, our principle is that which Imam Zaid Shakir, I think he coined it and now Ta'alif uses as well, is come as you are to Islam as it is. Yeah. And that's our motto there as well, come as you are to Islam as it is.

Right.

No strings attached. So that's really what we're envision embodying that, um, that. second floor and then the third floor is our seminary where we will be producing the next generation of imam, scholars, chaplains, um, for the Minnesota and surrounding communities.

You got a seminary too.

Yeah.

MashaAllah. That's awesome.

Yeah. And you know, it's more than a seminary for me specifically because you know, I've studied In, um, you know, traditional gatherings and madrasas and the, you know, traditional, what we call dars nizami or the curriculum, as well as I studied academically in institutions like bayan, um, and the jami'ah, the university system. So I'm really looking to merge the two, a hybrid version of the two. So being true to the text, but also the context, right? So, um, that's what I'm working on currently.

Hmm,

Alhamdulillah. May Allah give you success. Ameen, Ameen, Ameen. Yeah, beautiful, beautiful. Yeah, so Alhamdulillah, within a very short period of time, we were able to, you know, find a building. Um, Alhamdulillah, within two months, we were able to raise more than a half million dollars from the community. And, um, yeah, Alhamdulillah, we're moving forward in a couple months to do closing and then to open the space. Hopefully, our goal before fall next year. So, orientation week, inshallah we want to open orientation and then also the name. So, a lot of people have asked me, Shaykh why did you choose Salam, right? Why didn't you choose something more general? Where you can kind of blend in, you know, to, with everything else around you.

Right.

And I said, you know, I want to embrace the identity that we have as Muslims. I don't want to hide it anymore. And we've done a lot of that, I mean, you know, post 9 11, and the difficulties that people went through, and I mean, could be now even Who knows what's going to happen with this new administration, but yeah, you know, I want to embrace the idea as well. So I'm not scared anymore. Like I, I walked through the airport. I'm not scared. They want to, you know, question me, which I get questioned a lot. I'm open book. Look at everything you want to look at, but I want to embrace that idea. I want people to know we're Muslims, but they feel comfortable to interact with us. And then the name set up, you know, it's the name of God, right? Who was Salam, right? And Jannah. Heaven, paradise is called Darus Salaam, place of Salaam, right? And the Prophet Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam, he tells us Afshus Salaam, spread

Salaam,

right? So, which is peace. So culminating all of that is that we should be a center of Salaam.

Uh,

so that's why I called it Salam Community and, um, three stories, three, three examples. Yeah. Three of the works out. So with Salam, you know, just really envisioning and then taking that and, um, you know, they say dream big,

right, right.

You know, ask Allah, you know, when we asked the Prophet Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam said, just don't ask Allah for Jannah. Ask Allah for Firdos, the highest place of Jannah, right. You know as you aim for the stars Yeah, so our goal inshallah with our with Salam community is to become the halal's of For the Muslims where every single campus wherever there's a need All throughout the United States, we'll have Salaam communities and it can be adapted to their needs. So if they need a mosque, we have a mosque part of ours where we have Jummah and stuff and gathering space on the second floor and a coffee shop. If they need more than that, we can adapt it. But they have at least that minimum kind of requirement kind of thing and then start expanding inshallah.

Hmm.

MashaAllah. That's beautiful. That is beautiful. Yeah, you are thinking big, but you know what? Regardless of how big we can think, it is, it will never exceed Allah's ability to give. So, yeah, so we're going to always be, you know, thinking small.

Nothing is difficult for Allah. If God wishes anything, it says be and it is. So inshallah, you know, with the blessing of God and his, and his, um, his rahmah, his mercy, um, we look to serve another way of serving the entire, um, community, entire Muslim population.

Inshallah. Well, Sheikh Saifullah, it has been a pleasure talking to you. Uh, I thank you for sharing a bit of your journey with us and, and, and also talking about the work that you're doing. Uh, we're going to keep you, your community, and the work that you're doing, not just for Minnesota. Uh, Muslims in Minnesota, but for, for all of us, uh, and I do want,

I mean, does that look and thank you for your service and you're, I know, I know we have to do a podcast with you so we can talk, we can flip it and you can be on the other side, but may Allah bless your service and the community that you serve, your masjid, and you know, the work that you do for Bayan as well. MashaAllah doing this podcast and this platform and may Allah continue to increase

you. Ameen. Ameen. All right, family, it is that time for us to say assalamu alaykum. Before we do, I want to say thank you for taking the time to listen to the conversation. I pray, I hope that you have found some value in it. If so, consider sharing. And if you share, you got to like, and if you like it, you got to give us a comment. And if you comment, hopefully we got a really good rating from you. That said, we want to also remind you to support the work of Bayan Islamic Graduate School by going to bayanonline. org and contributing to the Muhammad Ali Scholarship. If you didn't know, over 70 percent of the students at Bayan Islamic Graduate School are scholarship recipients. And the last thing I'll say, and I'm not going to go with a long pitch, I'll just say that you can also support their work by getting a subscription to Bayan On Demand. It's 10 a month. It gives you access to a catalog of classes that right now numbers at 30, and that number is going up. And that's all I have to say. So, inshallah, with God's permission, we will do it again next week. I'm your host, Imam Tariq Al Amin. I leave you now as I greeted you. Assalamualaikum. May the peace that only God can give be upon

you.