Showing curiosity, feeling like you're
curious will make the other person that's looking at you,
listening to you feel like you want to connect with them. So if you
can show that, if you can show it through how you look, how you move
your voice so your voice is so, so important, if you can,
you can show your intention of that
curiosity that you want to connect, that you're
interested in, in the other person who's on the other side of
the camera, then, then that, that should help you become
a stronger communicator and getting better and getting good
at this.
Good morning, good evening, good afternoon. Wherever you are and wherever you're watching
from. My name is Matt Pearce, host of the Visual Lounge, where we talk about
using images and videos in the workplace. Today
we're going to be talking about something I think is really important. As you get
on camera, as you're on screen for people, it is
so easy to not build trust. It's easy to lose trust. So
we're going to be talking with a speaking coach and expert about on camera
presence and how not to lose that trust. So Peter travels the
hybrid globe helping speakers, high performing professionals, corporate
teams, TEDx speakers and founders to share more powerful
stories and, and build accurate speaking and presence skills.
With that all said, please help me welcome Peter Hopwood to the
Visual Lounge. Hey, Peter. Curious, how did you get started
with using like video and images in your work?
Yeah, well, essentially as a speaker coach and
helping people to stand on stages and in
boardrooms really connect by what they say, by how they move,
by, by the connections they're trying to achieve
through the pandemic. That was obviously a time where, you
know, all my traveling stopped. I couldn't do it in person anymore. And
after a kind of a long period of just
wallowing and not really stepping up, I realized that
actually here, this, in this screen, in this box,
there are skills to be learned to connect.
Right? So it's not clearly not the same as when you're
in person and trying to do the same thing, connect, build that trust, build that
connection here on a screen, it's different. There
are so many other things that have, you have to think about things that,
skills that you can learn, behaviors you can share.
And so simply through the pandemic,
two years or so, that was really where I
was able to kind of share my skills to help other people really
create this, this connection. So whether it be sales teams
that were trying to have a, trying to get good at this
with their intro calls, building up that trust, building up that relationship at the
beginning of their, of their sales journey or whether it was
presenters or, or people who had to share certain
information through the screen and do it in a good way, it gave me the
chance to do that. So, so really, although I was doing it many years before
as a presenter as well through the pandemic, that was really, I kind of
gave me a chance to hone in on, on the real skills and
as I say, behaviors, their behaviors, behaviors
to get good at this. And when you get good at this or you
start to get good at this, you
actually start to leave the competitors behind. You start, you start
to excel and people remember you better. They, they build up more trust
with you quicker and yeah, it's good for business
and everybody can connect with you better. But
still, this is not natural, this is not a natural
thing we should be doing. However, as I say, you, if
you look at it as a, you know, strategic things you have to do,
strategic behaviors, skills, ways
of moving, ways of, of speaking, your
intention, your eye contact, all these, all these things you can put together
and work on quite quickly. You can start
to, as I say, start to get good at this. Feel, feel confident
at this and feel confident that what you say,
what you, how you show up is actually going to connect better with the
people that are looking at you. How would what, what does success
look like for a good on camera
presence? Like, how would you know if you're being successful at it?
That's a fantastic question you just asked there because it's really
difficult to know whether you're doing
well or you're not doing well, right? But maybe use
this as a gauge. So basically, essentially when you're
on camera, when you're doing your zoom calls, your virtual exchanges,
record one or two of them, right? Have a look back
at what you look like, right? So it's all about
critiquing yourself and being aware of what this
box is like to the people that are looking
at it, right? So the perception. So look at the way
you're looking at the camera. Look at the way perhaps are your,
are your, do you have gestures? Are they moving? Does it seem like
this is dynamic? When you look back at yourself, do you look at yourself and
see yourself looking curious or feeling
the intention you want to feel when you're connecting with that person.
So, but doing it will actually really and
quite quickly help you to probably do two things. Number
one, you'll realize you're not as bad as you think, okay.
And number two, you'll start to see things that
actually you know, I could have done that better. Or maybe what, you know, why
was I moving so much? Or maybe I wasn't moving
enough. Maybe I didn't have enough gestures, or maybe my background
was. It just seems like there's something. Something
not right or something that is not helping the
communication, not helping to build up trust, or not
even. Maybe not even helping the conversation. So when there's
curiosity, that's. That's a really important word I want to throw in there. So
in this box, gesturing is good. It's really good
because it shows the other person that we're
alive, that we're moving, keeping animated, but not. Not
a distraction. But keeping animated is something that, again,
helps the other person feel like, okay, this
is going somewhere. This is actually a connection. It keeps our brains
moving and stimulated as well. So all these things, just
by looking at yourself, you'll be able to tell whether
you feel like you're getting somewhere or not. Our
audiences, whether they're online or whether they're
virtual or even live, they don't have to.
And they don't always do it. They don't have to give us the signals
that we interpret as signals of
listening or signals of being engaged. Right? So sometimes, quite. Actually
quite often, certainly here in this environment,
I think we have to kind of just believe in ourselves that we actually doing
this in the right way. We're doing all the things we should be doing.
We're trying to show curiosity, as I say, we're
using gestures to. To let them see that we're. That we have
a better intonation with our voice, naturally. So the more we. We're
using our gestures. And you can see here, I'm just simply. I'm not
using gestures, like large gestures all the
time, but you can see what my hands are doing, and. And you
can see I'm using them as batons. I'm using them as. Using
the rhythm as well. But you can see you have an indication of what they're
doing. So just the gestures can really help. But going back to the
original topic here, again, I think we sometimes have to just
believe in what we're doing,
know we're trying to do, trying to engage. And even if we don't
get the engagement back because we can't, I mean, to
expect it is probably wrong because not
everybody will show they're engaged. Not everybody will show
they like what they hear, then not everybody will show that
they're actually listening to you, although they may well
be listening to you. I know as a fact, you know, when I'm really
listening to someone or I'm really thinking or I'm making a decision about
something. Often listening to pictures. Let's say
I'm. I'm actually. I've got my. I've got a frown on my face. My arms
are kind of like. Like this. I'm sort of leaning back
slightly. But in fact, these may look as if they're kind of
closed gestures. But in fact, for many, when we think
we cross our arms or we have a frown. Right. Yep.
We go back slightly. Right. So. So if we were to take all
these individual signals that
we see and that we hear or don't hear,
I'm sure it would start to play with us, play with our minds,
and we would start to doubt. Right. So. So what I say
to, you know, everybody that I work with in terms of people who stand on
the stage, certainly, and again on screen as well. Well,
I. I love it. And you've already given us so many great things. I. I
want to get to our third question, then we'll dive into more about trust because
I think it's, you know, you've given us a couple things like gestures or some
things that you can do to be successful to improve. What
would you say is like one more tip, just quick tip that you think would
improve someone. Their presence on video? Obviously, I think there's
energy. I think one thing I've noticed you doing during this even is you lean
in a little bit. Like you're like kind of back then. You're like, lean in
and talk. Got any kind of one thing you think anyone can do
to improve kind of quickly? Yeah, I mean, I
dibbled and dabbled on quite a few things there. So the moving. So essentially
I stand up. I stand up because it helps
me to feel more stable.
I can. I feel like. So, like when I'm
presenting, or even if this was just an intro call, a sales intro call,
just standing up is almost like saying, you know, I'm. I'm here
to show myself. I'm here to. To show you respect
in a way. Although that sitting down and standing up in terms of respect
isn't really a lot. However, in my mind, when
I'm standing up, I feel like I'm kind of giving you more respect because
I, you know, I'm. I'm here to. To meet you. Right.
So. So standing up can give me this. This. You can see,
I can actually go. I can lean in. I can do my gestures as well.
I can go. I can say something that's. That I Want you to hear more.
I can lean in when I'm listening. I might lean back slightly. I can
do all these things if I was sitting down, and it's more difficult to
do that. And again, the sound that's coming through
my voice is only as good as the air
that goes inside and comes out. And if you're sitting down, especially if
you're sitting down all day, by the end of the day, you know what it
feels like everyone does at an office by their
desk. You know, your stomach is all kind of scrumpled up
and the air is. The air isn't as good as it could be. So
standing is a good one. So if I was to give you one
other big tip, so the eye contact. I think I've already mentioned
that as well. Again, just by practicing
looking at the lens. Now, this is a big one for so many people,
right? So many people have an issue with this. Still have an issue
with it. Because when I look clearly, when I look at the lens
and there's other people on the call, I can't see what they're doing. I
can have an idea, I've got an idea of what's happening,
but I can't actually see their eyes and get the
connection that maybe I want. However, priority, I always say the
priority is what? Is it me looking at you or
is it you building up the trust in me? I
want you, let's say this was a sales call. I want you to build
up the trust in me. I want you to feel like I'm curious
about you, curious about how we can work together, curious about
the work we can do together as a collaboration. Right?
So the more I kind of look at you, the more I give
you my eyes, the more I kind of show
you, look through this screen and imagine you
here, the more you have the feeling like
I'm respecting you, an element of respect when
I look at you more especially when you're talking to me.
So if somebody else is looking, talking to me through their
camera, but maybe not looking at the camera, as I'm looking at the
camera, they'll still see me looking at them
as if I'm really listening to them. So doing it as
much as you can, again, it's a really sort of strange thing to get used
to. But you've got used to it. I've got used
to it. Presenters, we do it all the time by looking at the camera and.
And imagining this camera, that is where. That
is where that person is that you're talking to you. So I'm looking at the
camera now to my left is. I
can see with the peripheral vision, I can see you
nodding. It's practice getting used to it, but
the more you do it and again looking back at it when
you've recorded yourself, you'll see that actually this is
actually a really good thing. So if you start with that, get used to that,
it will start to boost up your confidence and as I say, you'll start
to get better on this virtual journey. Really
great advice for anyone who's listening. Get good at looking into
your lens. So I want to learn from you the things I can do to
build trust and not inadvertently break some of the trust
when we're in these relationships. Whether it's a virtual experience like this
or even if it's like a pre recorded where, where someone's going to watch
it because I imagine they're similar. Obviously there's differences, but I imagine if
you're watching a video of me and I'm doing something that's
maybe going to break some of that trust, I want to know so I can
get better at it for you. Why is trust in
this environment? So if you could sum it up
quick, two sentence. Why is trust so important?
I think we all kind of know it and feel it, but I'd love to
hear it from you. Okay. In person
we, we can show so many other signals that, that
build up that trust that help us, help us
help the other person when they're perceiving us, when they're judging us. They have
so many other things, they have lots of things to go by. Right.
And in a natural human connection environment,
we've been as, as kids, we grow up to be
teenagers, to be, be adults. We've been trying to
connect and meet people, we shake their hand, we say a few words,
we then talk about other things, we smile. All these things,
all these things we've been doing for years, right? So we kind of, we kind
of as humans, we're kind of good at it. But here we don't, we don't
have those, we don't have those at all. All we really have, all we
really have is a box, a flat box, right?
And so we have to kind of imitate as many things as we can
from the in person world to here. If
I'm, if I start to lose your attention
through, through what you see or through what I
say or through how I say something with
the tone, with the sounds that you hear,
you on the other side can just
with your finger click and leave me.
Yeah, right. We can't do that in the real world. Right. It's really difficult to
do it. Well, you could, you could just, you just like, walk away, just. I'm
out of here. Right, but. Or in an audience listening to a
conference, most people don't just get up and walk. Some people do, but most people.
I haven't. Maybe you have, but most people don't get up and just walk out.
Right. But here, whether it's something on YouTube, whether
it's recorded, whatever it is, we, you know, our audience are really
powerful, are far more powerful here than anywhere
else because with their finger bang, they can just click and then we're gone.
We're gone forever. Maybe not forever, but we're gone at that moment.
So really, we have to keep people, to get people's
attention and keep their attention. That's probably, probably
even more difficult right here than anywhere else.
You have to grab it and maintain that attention
throughout. Right? So, so, so in
terms of trust, these are the things we really need to think about.
You know, we. We have to. Again, I have to gain your
attention. You don't owe me a thing.
Listening to me now. You listening to me now? Okay.
It's your podcast. You invite me on, and
naturally you. You want me here. However, listeners,
people that are watching this or watching a clip of this, they
owe me nothing. They owe you nothing, Matthew. They owe nobody
anything. And they don't owe us anything to stick around. So they don't have to
stay with us, they don't have to listen to us, they don't have to subscribe.
They have their choice. So we have to give
them something in terms of value,
something in terms of why they're going to stick around. Right? So we have to
build up that value, and we have to accept that people can
just leave us just with a click of a finger. So
we have to, we have to really build up that trust right from the
beginning and really, again, show curiosity,
show that we want to give value, show that we're ready to give something.
As a mindset has always helped me, and that's something, you
know, when I'm speaking to, working with, coaching
speakers, coaching people who are pitching, time is
the biggest commodity of all. Right? So you really have to
respect that they're giving you their time. They
don't have to. No one does. But they have. Hopefully they
have. Hopefully they're still with us right now. Right? Right. And we have to
give them back the value. What's the role of, like, in
your work and what you've seen the role of like the visual
aids that come up, you know, so if someone's given a presentation,
I've watched tons of TED type presentations
and it's obviously the onstage movement that those
interactions are really important and they focus on in an 18
minute video, they probably focus most of it on the person telling the
story. But we also see these visuals. So how does that
play into building trust with the audience, if at all?
So, okay, so we watch it. Let's say we're watching a TedX talk.
The number one thing. Thing. The number one thing certainly
for me in, in all of this that is going to grab
our attention. That's going to really keep us hopefully
engaged. Hopefully sticking with,
emotionally sticking with what the speaker is saying
is actually, and you'll probably, you'll, you may disagree with me,
but it's actually the voice, okay. The sound. So
sound is so important. So you can have somebody that's walking
on stage, looks a mess, you know,
looks a total mess. Right. Although you, when you do a TEDx or who, who
would look a mess, most people don't look. However, somebody that's
not looking that, that, you know, respectable.
I don't know if he comes on or she comes on
and you've already made this judgment in your, in your mind about who
they are. It's often when we see like reality shows like I don't know or,
or music shows like the Voice or the X Factor, we see somebody come on,
they, they don't, they don't look like a singer, they don't
move like a singer, they don't sound when they speak like a singer.
But when they suddenly sing, some of them, not all
of them actually some of them completely surprise us with,
with this beautiful, amazing, crazy voice. Right? Yeah.
It's the same with, with speaking on stage,
people will come out and obviously you've got to look as
respectable as you can and create all these points
of, of trying to persuade your audience or
that judgment that they're giving you, trying to get closer
to where you want to be. But your voice is number one. So
that's the number one thing. Now in terms of visual aids, in terms of
slides, these are all there so simply just to help
make things maybe even more clearer. Especially when it's
maybe a complex theme or topic,
using slides which make things simple
can really help. Right. Also, it also
sometimes takes away the, you know, we want, we want, as a speaker, we
want most, we want people to be listening to us, focused on us. But let's
say so quite. It's a longer speech or a
longer talk, just a switch
to the slide can just again, just break up
that. The movement and also give us, give our brain something a
little bit more stimulating to focus on and then you come back
and again when I'm nodding. So if I want, for example, if I want you
to agree with me on something or I know it's something that
you probably would agree with, right.
I can use, I can, I could say something like, listen, you'll agree
with me that, that right now the situation in terms of
inflation pretty much across the globe,
it's tough and it's tough for me and it's, it's, I'm sure it's tough for
you as well, right? You'd agree with me there, right? So even just like
by saying something that I think you're going to agree with me on,
nodding and doing this movement can really help. And
presenters, weather presenters often do that. Whoops. Often do
that movement as well. So the next time you're
watching a presenter, weather presenter, try to see
the movement they do. And in fact, I'll tell you this now, there is actually
one presenter in the uk, she's on BBC.
She's energetic, she's got a really smooth voice,
lovely tone. She's an attractive woman as well, which also helps. But, but
right at the end, right at the end when she's finished, what
she does, and she does this every single time, she gives a
little wink, just a small little
wink and she. I'm not saying that's good or bad, but
she gets away with it because it's all part of this feel
good, two minute, snappy
engagement that hopefully people will remember.
And they remember. I certainly remember that week.
Yeah. So it's about being purposeful, right? You're thinking about every
gesture as a extension of what you're saying to help.
You know, I think with the nodding in particular, it reminds me of what's
called mirror neurons. Right. Like we have these neurons that will fire.
If I see you doing smiling, for instance, smiling is a big one. If
I'm smiling, I'm happy. You are much more likely to
feel that need and want to smile because our neurons start to fire. Like,
oh, we're smiling today. So I think there's a lot to that. But being
very purposeful in those things to help engage your audience
so that they're coming along with you and they're trusting you. And of course, trust
is a delicate thing. I want to flip the script a little bit and let's
talk about things that You've seen that break that
trust like and obviously we've talked. You could take all the things you just said
and we, you know, well, don't use hand gestures, don't look at the camera. But
are there other things you see that just you're like, oh, oh my gosh, that,
that really can make it hard for an audience
to connect with a presenter or break that trust right
away that they're doing something that's like, oh, that could have been a good
presentation. Low hanging fruit. Naturally, our logistics
out set up. If it's okay, I've got a ring light here, I've
got one, I've got a light here. You've got yours professionally as
well. But we don't everybody else, you don't need to buy a ring light. You
just have to make sure you've got light in front of you. Light which lets
people see your face, light which lets seek
people see your expressions. If they can't or if it's
difficult to do that, it becomes a big
distraction. It becomes far bigger than.
It becomes a very big distraction indeed. Another big distraction
is the sound. If the sound is your computer audio
and that seems to be okay. If it's some, if it's a specialized
mic that you've bought or you know, great equipment like you've got as well, this
is all fantastic. However, if it, if
the, the, the audio, if there's crackling or
if you can't hear it enough or there's something this, there's a
disturbance that becomes a real distraction,
right? It's the same as like WI Fi, you know, when there's a, when that,
you know, with WI fi, if we have to wait a while, even if it's
for 30 seconds, 10 seconds even, we get agitated,
right? Because in this world we live in right now, everything has to be like
straight away. So if we can't see you clearly or
if there's a distraction, if we can't hear you clearly or there's a distraction,
these are the things that are going to really start.
You're starting on the wrong foot. Just think about
what people see all in this box. Because again,
we have full control over this
and that's a good thing. So I can actually spend
and you can as well, you know, hours and hours and
thinking about what you want people to see
and that's a good thing. Other places you can't control that. When you go for
a meeting or presentation, you depend on the environment,
on the room, on the conference hall, on the stage.
But if we can, if we can. And here we can control it. Like I
say, you can control all of this. So if you can create something that
actually gets closer to what you want people to feel
and what you want people to
get from this exchange, and that could be very different. It could be
very different depending on that exchange you have. Right.
So if you thinking about it and just, just having a little bit of
time, I've said hours and hours, but you don't need, obviously hours and hours, just
five minutes of thinking, okay, what do I. And you can play around with it.
You can play all day. I can go. You can pop into different rooms all
day to try to get a spot which
seems to work. A spot which seems to work and
feels natural. Right? Yeah. And I love that. And
it's always, it has always been worth my time to, to make sure whatever's behind
me looks good and is set. So. But we want to thank you for
joining us. So before we wrap up, where can people connect with you? If they
want to learn more, they want to connect with you and maybe getting some speak,
speaking, consulting or whatever it is that they'd like to do. How can they connect
with you? Yeah, the best, best way, go over to
LinkedIn, find me there. Peter Hopwood, Speaker, Coach
Tedx. You'll find me. It'll come up probably quite quickly
on, on the screen. Connect with, with me there. If, if you're
connecting and you've listened to this podcast, you know, write a little note that
you've, you've been listening to the podcast. You can see everything that I've been
doing. That will give you a good flavor of
maybe, just maybe how I can help you or your teams with,
with their communication as well. So jump over to LinkedIn and you can find me
there. Fantastic. Now we like to, to wrap up with our final
take. Peter, this is our, our, our quick summary of kind of big idea of
something we talked about today. So Peter, what is your
final take? My final take
really is simply all, all around, all based
around one word, and that is curiosity.
Showing curiosity. Feeling like you're
curious will make the other person that's looking at you,
listening to you feel like you want to connect with them. So if you
can show that, if you can show it through how you look, how you move
your voice so your voice is so, so important. If you can, you
can show your intention of that curiosity
that you want to connect, that you're interested in
the other person who's on the other side of the camera, then, then that,
that should help you become a stronger, communicating,
getting better, and getting good at this.
Fantastic. Peter, thank you so much for joining me today in the Visual
Lounge. Well, thank you so much. I hope we can do this once
again sometime in the future. You bet. Well, everybody, we
want to thank you for tuning in today's show. I hope you got some really
strong ideas about what you can do to get better in your
presence, to build that trust and to not break that trust as you're on camera.
Because, you know, we talk about this all the time on the Visual Lounge is
that it's. It's not about, you know, doing everything all awesome at
once. It's about building those skills over and over, and it's starting with that first
video. Starting with. By trying to look at the camera a little bit more. Doing
the things that Peter taught us to do today will help you get better.
So as we like to end every show, we hope you take a little bit
of time to level up, and we'll see you next time.