1 00:00:00,640 --> 00:00:04,280 Showing curiosity, feeling like you're 2 00:00:04,280 --> 00:00:08,040 curious will make the other person that's looking at you, 3 00:00:08,040 --> 00:00:11,880 listening to you feel like you want to connect with them. So if you 4 00:00:11,880 --> 00:00:15,200 can show that, if you can show it through how you look, how you move 5 00:00:15,440 --> 00:00:18,960 your voice so your voice is so, so important, if you can, 6 00:00:19,040 --> 00:00:22,160 you can show your intention of that 7 00:00:22,160 --> 00:00:25,440 curiosity that you want to connect, that you're 8 00:00:25,440 --> 00:00:29,220 interested in, in the other person who's on the other side of 9 00:00:29,220 --> 00:00:33,020 the camera, then, then that, that should help you become 10 00:00:33,020 --> 00:00:36,820 a stronger communicator and getting better and getting good 11 00:00:37,300 --> 00:00:38,420 at this. 12 00:00:45,540 --> 00:00:49,260 Good morning, good evening, good afternoon. Wherever you are and wherever you're watching 13 00:00:49,260 --> 00:00:52,300 from. My name is Matt Pearce, host of the Visual Lounge, where we talk about 14 00:00:52,300 --> 00:00:55,510 using images and videos in the workplace. Today 15 00:00:55,830 --> 00:00:58,750 we're going to be talking about something I think is really important. As you get 16 00:00:58,750 --> 00:01:02,390 on camera, as you're on screen for people, it is 17 00:01:02,390 --> 00:01:06,110 so easy to not build trust. It's easy to lose trust. So 18 00:01:06,110 --> 00:01:09,830 we're going to be talking with a speaking coach and expert about on camera 19 00:01:09,830 --> 00:01:13,430 presence and how not to lose that trust. So Peter travels the 20 00:01:13,430 --> 00:01:17,150 hybrid globe helping speakers, high performing professionals, corporate 21 00:01:17,150 --> 00:01:20,750 teams, TEDx speakers and founders to share more powerful 22 00:01:20,750 --> 00:01:24,280 stories and, and build accurate speaking and presence skills. 23 00:01:24,600 --> 00:01:28,200 With that all said, please help me welcome Peter Hopwood to the 24 00:01:28,200 --> 00:01:31,560 Visual Lounge. Hey, Peter. Curious, how did you get started 25 00:01:31,880 --> 00:01:35,640 with using like video and images in your work? 26 00:01:36,600 --> 00:01:40,240 Yeah, well, essentially as a speaker coach and 27 00:01:40,240 --> 00:01:43,800 helping people to stand on stages and in 28 00:01:43,800 --> 00:01:47,320 boardrooms really connect by what they say, by how they move, 29 00:01:47,320 --> 00:01:50,540 by, by the connections they're trying to achieve 30 00:01:51,020 --> 00:01:54,780 through the pandemic. That was obviously a time where, you 31 00:01:54,780 --> 00:01:58,620 know, all my traveling stopped. I couldn't do it in person anymore. And 32 00:01:58,780 --> 00:02:01,740 after a kind of a long period of just 33 00:02:02,140 --> 00:02:05,780 wallowing and not really stepping up, I realized that 34 00:02:05,780 --> 00:02:09,260 actually here, this, in this screen, in this box, 35 00:02:10,300 --> 00:02:13,820 there are skills to be learned to connect. 36 00:02:14,130 --> 00:02:17,570 Right? So it's not clearly not the same as when you're 37 00:02:17,730 --> 00:02:21,450 in person and trying to do the same thing, connect, build that trust, build that 38 00:02:21,450 --> 00:02:25,130 connection here on a screen, it's different. There 39 00:02:25,130 --> 00:02:28,530 are so many other things that have, you have to think about things that, 40 00:02:28,690 --> 00:02:32,290 skills that you can learn, behaviors you can share. 41 00:02:32,290 --> 00:02:35,970 And so simply through the pandemic, 42 00:02:36,050 --> 00:02:39,740 two years or so, that was really where I 43 00:02:39,740 --> 00:02:43,460 was able to kind of share my skills to help other people really 44 00:02:43,460 --> 00:02:47,220 create this, this connection. So whether it be sales teams 45 00:02:47,220 --> 00:02:51,020 that were trying to have a, trying to get good at this 46 00:02:51,420 --> 00:02:55,100 with their intro calls, building up that trust, building up that relationship at the 47 00:02:55,100 --> 00:02:58,900 beginning of their, of their sales journey or whether it was 48 00:02:58,900 --> 00:03:02,500 presenters or, or people who had to share certain 49 00:03:02,500 --> 00:03:05,860 information through the screen and do it in a good way, it gave me the 50 00:03:05,860 --> 00:03:09,410 chance to do that. So, so really, although I was doing it many years before 51 00:03:09,410 --> 00:03:12,890 as a presenter as well through the pandemic, that was really, I kind of 52 00:03:13,050 --> 00:03:16,650 gave me a chance to hone in on, on the real skills and 53 00:03:16,890 --> 00:03:20,570 as I say, behaviors, their behaviors, behaviors 54 00:03:20,650 --> 00:03:24,450 to get good at this. And when you get good at this or you 55 00:03:24,450 --> 00:03:28,250 start to get good at this, you 56 00:03:28,250 --> 00:03:31,970 actually start to leave the competitors behind. You start, you start 57 00:03:31,970 --> 00:03:35,680 to excel and people remember you better. They, they build up more trust 58 00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:39,480 with you quicker and yeah, it's good for business 59 00:03:39,480 --> 00:03:43,280 and everybody can connect with you better. But 60 00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:46,360 still, this is not natural, this is not a natural 61 00:03:47,480 --> 00:03:51,200 thing we should be doing. However, as I say, you, if 62 00:03:51,200 --> 00:03:54,600 you look at it as a, you know, strategic things you have to do, 63 00:03:54,600 --> 00:03:58,200 strategic behaviors, skills, ways 64 00:03:58,200 --> 00:04:01,870 of moving, ways of, of speaking, your 65 00:04:01,870 --> 00:04:05,430 intention, your eye contact, all these, all these things you can put together 66 00:04:05,510 --> 00:04:09,190 and work on quite quickly. You can start 67 00:04:09,190 --> 00:04:12,870 to, as I say, start to get good at this. Feel, feel confident 68 00:04:13,190 --> 00:04:16,150 at this and feel confident that what you say, 69 00:04:16,790 --> 00:04:20,510 what you, how you show up is actually going to connect better with the 70 00:04:20,510 --> 00:04:24,150 people that are looking at you. How would what, what does success 71 00:04:24,470 --> 00:04:28,080 look like for a good on camera 72 00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:30,960 presence? Like, how would you know if you're being successful at it? 73 00:04:31,920 --> 00:04:35,680 That's a fantastic question you just asked there because it's really 74 00:04:35,680 --> 00:04:39,480 difficult to know whether you're doing 75 00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:43,320 well or you're not doing well, right? But maybe use 76 00:04:43,320 --> 00:04:47,120 this as a gauge. So basically, essentially when you're 77 00:04:47,120 --> 00:04:50,800 on camera, when you're doing your zoom calls, your virtual exchanges, 78 00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:55,810 record one or two of them, right? Have a look back 79 00:04:56,610 --> 00:04:59,930 at what you look like, right? So it's all about 80 00:04:59,930 --> 00:05:03,530 critiquing yourself and being aware of what this 81 00:05:03,530 --> 00:05:07,210 box is like to the people that are looking 82 00:05:07,210 --> 00:05:10,610 at it, right? So the perception. So look at the way 83 00:05:10,930 --> 00:05:14,130 you're looking at the camera. Look at the way perhaps are your, 84 00:05:14,610 --> 00:05:18,290 are your, do you have gestures? Are they moving? Does it seem like 85 00:05:18,290 --> 00:05:22,030 this is dynamic? When you look back at yourself, do you look at yourself and 86 00:05:22,030 --> 00:05:25,630 see yourself looking curious or feeling 87 00:05:26,430 --> 00:05:30,270 the intention you want to feel when you're connecting with that person. 88 00:05:30,350 --> 00:05:33,910 So, but doing it will actually really and 89 00:05:33,910 --> 00:05:37,630 quite quickly help you to probably do two things. Number 90 00:05:37,630 --> 00:05:41,390 one, you'll realize you're not as bad as you think, okay. 91 00:05:42,190 --> 00:05:46,030 And number two, you'll start to see things that 92 00:05:46,110 --> 00:05:49,630 actually you know, I could have done that better. Or maybe what, you know, why 93 00:05:49,630 --> 00:05:52,780 was I moving so much? Or maybe I wasn't moving 94 00:05:53,180 --> 00:05:56,860 enough. Maybe I didn't have enough gestures, or maybe my background 95 00:05:56,860 --> 00:06:00,580 was. It just seems like there's something. Something 96 00:06:00,580 --> 00:06:04,260 not right or something that is not helping the 97 00:06:04,260 --> 00:06:07,979 communication, not helping to build up trust, or not 98 00:06:07,979 --> 00:06:11,580 even. Maybe not even helping the conversation. So when there's 99 00:06:11,580 --> 00:06:15,300 curiosity, that's. That's a really important word I want to throw in there. So 100 00:06:15,300 --> 00:06:19,020 in this box, gesturing is good. It's really good 101 00:06:19,020 --> 00:06:22,510 because it shows the other person that we're 102 00:06:22,510 --> 00:06:26,350 alive, that we're moving, keeping animated, but not. Not 103 00:06:26,350 --> 00:06:29,830 a distraction. But keeping animated is something that, again, 104 00:06:30,150 --> 00:06:33,950 helps the other person feel like, okay, this 105 00:06:33,950 --> 00:06:37,110 is going somewhere. This is actually a connection. It keeps our brains 106 00:06:37,670 --> 00:06:41,350 moving and stimulated as well. So all these things, just 107 00:06:41,350 --> 00:06:44,630 by looking at yourself, you'll be able to tell whether 108 00:06:45,430 --> 00:06:48,630 you feel like you're getting somewhere or not. Our 109 00:06:48,630 --> 00:06:52,260 audiences, whether they're online or whether they're 110 00:06:52,260 --> 00:06:55,980 virtual or even live, they don't have to. 111 00:06:56,620 --> 00:07:00,300 And they don't always do it. They don't have to give us the signals 112 00:07:00,380 --> 00:07:03,740 that we interpret as signals of 113 00:07:03,740 --> 00:07:07,540 listening or signals of being engaged. Right? So sometimes, quite. Actually 114 00:07:07,540 --> 00:07:10,220 quite often, certainly here in this environment, 115 00:07:11,260 --> 00:07:14,860 I think we have to kind of just believe in ourselves that we actually doing 116 00:07:14,860 --> 00:07:18,400 this in the right way. We're doing all the things we should be doing. 117 00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:22,440 We're trying to show curiosity, as I say, we're 118 00:07:22,440 --> 00:07:26,280 using gestures to. To let them see that we're. That we have 119 00:07:26,280 --> 00:07:30,080 a better intonation with our voice, naturally. So the more we. We're 120 00:07:30,080 --> 00:07:33,760 using our gestures. And you can see here, I'm just simply. I'm not 121 00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:37,840 using gestures, like large gestures all the 122 00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:41,600 time, but you can see what my hands are doing, and. And you 123 00:07:41,600 --> 00:07:45,280 can see I'm using them as batons. I'm using them as. Using 124 00:07:45,280 --> 00:07:49,040 the rhythm as well. But you can see you have an indication of what they're 125 00:07:49,040 --> 00:07:52,240 doing. So just the gestures can really help. But going back to the 126 00:07:52,640 --> 00:07:56,280 original topic here, again, I think we sometimes have to just 127 00:07:56,280 --> 00:07:59,040 believe in what we're doing, 128 00:07:59,840 --> 00:08:03,640 know we're trying to do, trying to engage. And even if we don't 129 00:08:03,640 --> 00:08:07,280 get the engagement back because we can't, I mean, to 130 00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:11,100 expect it is probably wrong because not 131 00:08:11,100 --> 00:08:14,380 everybody will show they're engaged. Not everybody will show 132 00:08:15,260 --> 00:08:18,460 they like what they hear, then not everybody will show that 133 00:08:18,780 --> 00:08:22,540 they're actually listening to you, although they may well 134 00:08:22,540 --> 00:08:26,220 be listening to you. I know as a fact, you know, when I'm really 135 00:08:26,220 --> 00:08:29,900 listening to someone or I'm really thinking or I'm making a decision about 136 00:08:29,900 --> 00:08:33,580 something. Often listening to pictures. Let's say 137 00:08:34,230 --> 00:08:37,670 I'm. I'm actually. I've got my. I've got a frown on my face. My arms 138 00:08:37,670 --> 00:08:41,230 are kind of like. Like this. I'm sort of leaning back 139 00:08:41,230 --> 00:08:44,870 slightly. But in fact, these may look as if they're kind of 140 00:08:44,870 --> 00:08:48,390 closed gestures. But in fact, for many, when we think 141 00:08:48,470 --> 00:08:52,070 we cross our arms or we have a frown. Right. Yep. 142 00:08:52,630 --> 00:08:56,230 We go back slightly. Right. So. So if we were to take all 143 00:08:56,230 --> 00:09:00,000 these individual signals that 144 00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:02,640 we see and that we hear or don't hear, 145 00:09:03,440 --> 00:09:07,160 I'm sure it would start to play with us, play with our minds, 146 00:09:07,160 --> 00:09:11,000 and we would start to doubt. Right. So. So what I say 147 00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:14,120 to, you know, everybody that I work with in terms of people who stand on 148 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:17,880 the stage, certainly, and again on screen as well. Well, 149 00:09:17,880 --> 00:09:20,360 I. I love it. And you've already given us so many great things. I. I 150 00:09:20,360 --> 00:09:22,920 want to get to our third question, then we'll dive into more about trust because 151 00:09:22,920 --> 00:09:25,640 I think it's, you know, you've given us a couple things like gestures or some 152 00:09:25,640 --> 00:09:29,490 things that you can do to be successful to improve. What 153 00:09:29,490 --> 00:09:33,250 would you say is like one more tip, just quick tip that you think would 154 00:09:33,250 --> 00:09:37,090 improve someone. Their presence on video? Obviously, I think there's 155 00:09:37,090 --> 00:09:40,770 energy. I think one thing I've noticed you doing during this even is you lean 156 00:09:40,770 --> 00:09:43,369 in a little bit. Like you're like kind of back then. You're like, lean in 157 00:09:43,369 --> 00:09:47,210 and talk. Got any kind of one thing you think anyone can do 158 00:09:47,210 --> 00:09:51,010 to improve kind of quickly? Yeah, I mean, I 159 00:09:51,570 --> 00:09:55,410 dibbled and dabbled on quite a few things there. So the moving. So essentially 160 00:09:55,970 --> 00:09:59,660 I stand up. I stand up because it helps 161 00:09:59,660 --> 00:10:03,260 me to feel more stable. 162 00:10:03,900 --> 00:10:07,340 I can. I feel like. So, like when I'm 163 00:10:07,340 --> 00:10:10,940 presenting, or even if this was just an intro call, a sales intro call, 164 00:10:11,100 --> 00:10:14,860 just standing up is almost like saying, you know, I'm. I'm here 165 00:10:14,860 --> 00:10:18,700 to show myself. I'm here to. To show you respect 166 00:10:18,700 --> 00:10:22,060 in a way. Although that sitting down and standing up in terms of respect 167 00:10:22,140 --> 00:10:25,890 isn't really a lot. However, in my mind, when 168 00:10:25,890 --> 00:10:29,610 I'm standing up, I feel like I'm kind of giving you more respect because 169 00:10:29,610 --> 00:10:32,410 I, you know, I'm. I'm here to. To meet you. Right. 170 00:10:33,450 --> 00:10:37,170 So. So standing up can give me this. This. You can see, 171 00:10:37,170 --> 00:10:40,770 I can actually go. I can lean in. I can do my gestures as well. 172 00:10:40,770 --> 00:10:44,050 I can go. I can say something that's. That I Want you to hear more. 173 00:10:44,050 --> 00:10:47,890 I can lean in when I'm listening. I might lean back slightly. I can 174 00:10:47,890 --> 00:10:51,700 do all these things if I was sitting down, and it's more difficult to 175 00:10:51,700 --> 00:10:54,780 do that. And again, the sound that's coming through 176 00:10:55,580 --> 00:10:59,260 my voice is only as good as the air 177 00:10:59,660 --> 00:11:03,460 that goes inside and comes out. And if you're sitting down, especially if 178 00:11:03,460 --> 00:11:06,340 you're sitting down all day, by the end of the day, you know what it 179 00:11:06,340 --> 00:11:09,980 feels like everyone does at an office by their 180 00:11:09,980 --> 00:11:13,820 desk. You know, your stomach is all kind of scrumpled up 181 00:11:14,380 --> 00:11:17,660 and the air is. The air isn't as good as it could be. So 182 00:11:18,060 --> 00:11:21,620 standing is a good one. So if I was to give you one 183 00:11:21,620 --> 00:11:25,380 other big tip, so the eye contact. I think I've already mentioned 184 00:11:25,380 --> 00:11:28,860 that as well. Again, just by practicing 185 00:11:30,620 --> 00:11:34,260 looking at the lens. Now, this is a big one for so many people, 186 00:11:34,260 --> 00:11:38,020 right? So many people have an issue with this. Still have an issue 187 00:11:38,020 --> 00:11:41,260 with it. Because when I look clearly, when I look at the lens 188 00:11:41,820 --> 00:11:45,560 and there's other people on the call, I can't see what they're doing. I 189 00:11:45,560 --> 00:11:49,320 can have an idea, I've got an idea of what's happening, 190 00:11:49,320 --> 00:11:53,000 but I can't actually see their eyes and get the 191 00:11:53,000 --> 00:11:56,680 connection that maybe I want. However, priority, I always say the 192 00:11:56,680 --> 00:12:00,480 priority is what? Is it me looking at you or 193 00:12:00,480 --> 00:12:04,280 is it you building up the trust in me? I 194 00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:08,120 want you, let's say this was a sales call. I want you to build 195 00:12:08,120 --> 00:12:11,760 up the trust in me. I want you to feel like I'm curious 196 00:12:12,720 --> 00:12:16,320 about you, curious about how we can work together, curious about 197 00:12:16,400 --> 00:12:19,920 the work we can do together as a collaboration. Right? 198 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:23,800 So the more I kind of look at you, the more I give 199 00:12:23,800 --> 00:12:27,480 you my eyes, the more I kind of show 200 00:12:27,480 --> 00:12:31,280 you, look through this screen and imagine you 201 00:12:31,280 --> 00:12:34,240 here, the more you have the feeling like 202 00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:39,370 I'm respecting you, an element of respect when 203 00:12:39,370 --> 00:12:42,850 I look at you more especially when you're talking to me. 204 00:12:42,930 --> 00:12:46,530 So if somebody else is looking, talking to me through their 205 00:12:46,530 --> 00:12:50,170 camera, but maybe not looking at the camera, as I'm looking at the 206 00:12:50,170 --> 00:12:53,970 camera, they'll still see me looking at them 207 00:12:54,050 --> 00:12:57,850 as if I'm really listening to them. So doing it as 208 00:12:57,850 --> 00:13:01,490 much as you can, again, it's a really sort of strange thing to get used 209 00:13:01,490 --> 00:13:05,290 to. But you've got used to it. I've got used 210 00:13:05,290 --> 00:13:08,620 to it. Presenters, we do it all the time by looking at the camera and. 211 00:13:08,690 --> 00:13:12,410 And imagining this camera, that is where. That 212 00:13:12,410 --> 00:13:14,770 is where that person is that you're talking to you. So I'm looking at the 213 00:13:14,770 --> 00:13:18,490 camera now to my left is. I 214 00:13:18,490 --> 00:13:21,850 can see with the peripheral vision, I can see you 215 00:13:21,850 --> 00:13:25,610 nodding. It's practice getting used to it, but 216 00:13:25,610 --> 00:13:29,370 the more you do it and again looking back at it when 217 00:13:29,370 --> 00:13:33,050 you've recorded yourself, you'll see that actually this is 218 00:13:33,050 --> 00:13:36,450 actually a really good thing. So if you start with that, get used to that, 219 00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:42,840 it will start to boost up your confidence and as I say, you'll start 220 00:13:42,840 --> 00:13:46,480 to get better on this virtual journey. Really 221 00:13:46,480 --> 00:13:50,320 great advice for anyone who's listening. Get good at looking into 222 00:13:50,320 --> 00:13:53,640 your lens. So I want to learn from you the things I can do to 223 00:13:53,640 --> 00:13:57,400 build trust and not inadvertently break some of the trust 224 00:13:57,400 --> 00:14:01,040 when we're in these relationships. Whether it's a virtual experience like this 225 00:14:01,360 --> 00:14:05,100 or even if it's like a pre recorded where, where someone's going to watch 226 00:14:05,100 --> 00:14:08,820 it because I imagine they're similar. Obviously there's differences, but I imagine if 227 00:14:08,820 --> 00:14:12,340 you're watching a video of me and I'm doing something that's 228 00:14:12,660 --> 00:14:16,380 maybe going to break some of that trust, I want to know so I can 229 00:14:16,380 --> 00:14:20,060 get better at it for you. Why is trust in 230 00:14:20,060 --> 00:14:23,540 this environment? So if you could sum it up 231 00:14:24,020 --> 00:14:27,620 quick, two sentence. Why is trust so important? 232 00:14:27,700 --> 00:14:29,780 I think we all kind of know it and feel it, but I'd love to 233 00:14:29,780 --> 00:14:32,400 hear it from you. Okay. In person 234 00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:37,440 we, we can show so many other signals that, that 235 00:14:37,440 --> 00:14:41,160 build up that trust that help us, help us 236 00:14:41,160 --> 00:14:45,000 help the other person when they're perceiving us, when they're judging us. They have 237 00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:48,800 so many other things, they have lots of things to go by. Right. 238 00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:52,480 And in a natural human connection environment, 239 00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:56,240 we've been as, as kids, we grow up to be 240 00:14:56,240 --> 00:14:59,800 teenagers, to be, be adults. We've been trying to 241 00:14:59,800 --> 00:15:03,320 connect and meet people, we shake their hand, we say a few words, 242 00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:07,320 we then talk about other things, we smile. All these things, 243 00:15:08,520 --> 00:15:11,760 all these things we've been doing for years, right? So we kind of, we kind 244 00:15:11,760 --> 00:15:15,440 of as humans, we're kind of good at it. But here we don't, we don't 245 00:15:15,440 --> 00:15:19,240 have those, we don't have those at all. All we really have, all we 246 00:15:19,240 --> 00:15:22,680 really have is a box, a flat box, right? 247 00:15:23,030 --> 00:15:26,630 And so we have to kind of imitate as many things as we can 248 00:15:26,870 --> 00:15:30,430 from the in person world to here. If 249 00:15:30,430 --> 00:15:34,070 I'm, if I start to lose your attention 250 00:15:34,950 --> 00:15:38,630 through, through what you see or through what I 251 00:15:38,630 --> 00:15:42,350 say or through how I say something with 252 00:15:42,350 --> 00:15:45,190 the tone, with the sounds that you hear, 253 00:15:46,630 --> 00:15:50,310 you on the other side can just 254 00:15:50,310 --> 00:15:53,750 with your finger click and leave me. 255 00:15:54,150 --> 00:15:56,990 Yeah, right. We can't do that in the real world. Right. It's really difficult to 256 00:15:56,990 --> 00:15:59,990 do it. Well, you could, you could just, you just like, walk away, just. I'm 257 00:15:59,990 --> 00:16:03,550 out of here. Right, but. Or in an audience listening to a 258 00:16:03,550 --> 00:16:06,950 conference, most people don't just get up and walk. Some people do, but most people. 259 00:16:06,950 --> 00:16:10,310 I haven't. Maybe you have, but most people don't get up and just walk out. 260 00:16:10,310 --> 00:16:14,150 Right. But here, whether it's something on YouTube, whether 261 00:16:14,150 --> 00:16:17,870 it's recorded, whatever it is, we, you know, our audience are really 262 00:16:17,870 --> 00:16:21,610 powerful, are far more powerful here than anywhere 263 00:16:21,610 --> 00:16:25,090 else because with their finger bang, they can just click and then we're gone. 264 00:16:25,730 --> 00:16:29,570 We're gone forever. Maybe not forever, but we're gone at that moment. 265 00:16:30,210 --> 00:16:33,930 So really, we have to keep people, to get people's 266 00:16:33,930 --> 00:16:37,490 attention and keep their attention. That's probably, probably 267 00:16:37,650 --> 00:16:41,010 even more difficult right here than anywhere else. 268 00:16:41,330 --> 00:16:45,170 You have to grab it and maintain that attention 269 00:16:45,820 --> 00:16:49,620 throughout. Right? So, so, so in 270 00:16:49,620 --> 00:16:53,300 terms of trust, these are the things we really need to think about. 271 00:16:53,300 --> 00:16:56,780 You know, we. We have to. Again, I have to gain your 272 00:16:56,860 --> 00:16:59,180 attention. You don't owe me a thing. 273 00:17:00,380 --> 00:17:04,140 Listening to me now. You listening to me now? Okay. 274 00:17:04,140 --> 00:17:07,100 It's your podcast. You invite me on, and 275 00:17:07,500 --> 00:17:10,860 naturally you. You want me here. However, listeners, 276 00:17:11,830 --> 00:17:15,670 people that are watching this or watching a clip of this, they 277 00:17:15,670 --> 00:17:19,150 owe me nothing. They owe you nothing, Matthew. They owe nobody 278 00:17:19,150 --> 00:17:22,990 anything. And they don't owe us anything to stick around. So they don't have to 279 00:17:22,990 --> 00:17:25,990 stay with us, they don't have to listen to us, they don't have to subscribe. 280 00:17:26,630 --> 00:17:30,270 They have their choice. So we have to give 281 00:17:30,270 --> 00:17:33,750 them something in terms of value, 282 00:17:33,990 --> 00:17:37,550 something in terms of why they're going to stick around. Right? So we have to 283 00:17:37,550 --> 00:17:41,360 build up that value, and we have to accept that people can 284 00:17:41,360 --> 00:17:45,080 just leave us just with a click of a finger. So 285 00:17:45,080 --> 00:17:48,560 we have to, we have to really build up that trust right from the 286 00:17:48,560 --> 00:17:52,160 beginning and really, again, show curiosity, 287 00:17:52,560 --> 00:17:56,400 show that we want to give value, show that we're ready to give something. 288 00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:01,760 As a mindset has always helped me, and that's something, you 289 00:18:01,760 --> 00:18:05,520 know, when I'm speaking to, working with, coaching 290 00:18:05,600 --> 00:18:09,260 speakers, coaching people who are pitching, time is 291 00:18:09,260 --> 00:18:12,860 the biggest commodity of all. Right? So you really have to 292 00:18:12,860 --> 00:18:16,540 respect that they're giving you their time. They 293 00:18:16,540 --> 00:18:20,300 don't have to. No one does. But they have. Hopefully they 294 00:18:20,300 --> 00:18:24,140 have. Hopefully they're still with us right now. Right? Right. And we have to 295 00:18:24,140 --> 00:18:27,820 give them back the value. What's the role of, like, in 296 00:18:27,820 --> 00:18:31,020 your work and what you've seen the role of like the visual 297 00:18:31,260 --> 00:18:34,900 aids that come up, you know, so if someone's given a presentation, 298 00:18:34,900 --> 00:18:38,010 I've watched tons of TED type presentations 299 00:18:38,490 --> 00:18:42,010 and it's obviously the onstage movement that those 300 00:18:42,010 --> 00:18:45,610 interactions are really important and they focus on in an 18 301 00:18:45,610 --> 00:18:49,210 minute video, they probably focus most of it on the person telling the 302 00:18:49,210 --> 00:18:52,970 story. But we also see these visuals. So how does that 303 00:18:52,970 --> 00:18:56,250 play into building trust with the audience, if at all? 304 00:18:56,890 --> 00:19:00,170 So, okay, so we watch it. Let's say we're watching a TedX talk. 305 00:19:01,050 --> 00:19:04,740 The number one thing. Thing. The number one thing certainly 306 00:19:04,740 --> 00:19:08,460 for me in, in all of this that is going to grab 307 00:19:08,460 --> 00:19:11,900 our attention. That's going to really keep us hopefully 308 00:19:11,900 --> 00:19:15,420 engaged. Hopefully sticking with, 309 00:19:15,660 --> 00:19:19,340 emotionally sticking with what the speaker is saying 310 00:19:20,620 --> 00:19:24,380 is actually, and you'll probably, you'll, you may disagree with me, 311 00:19:24,460 --> 00:19:28,020 but it's actually the voice, okay. The sound. So 312 00:19:28,020 --> 00:19:31,710 sound is so important. So you can have somebody that's walking 313 00:19:31,710 --> 00:19:35,190 on stage, looks a mess, you know, 314 00:19:35,430 --> 00:19:38,910 looks a total mess. Right. Although you, when you do a TEDx or who, who 315 00:19:38,910 --> 00:19:42,550 would look a mess, most people don't look. However, somebody that's 316 00:19:42,630 --> 00:19:45,349 not looking that, that, you know, respectable. 317 00:19:46,230 --> 00:19:49,670 I don't know if he comes on or she comes on 318 00:19:50,150 --> 00:19:53,830 and you've already made this judgment in your, in your mind about who 319 00:19:53,830 --> 00:19:57,480 they are. It's often when we see like reality shows like I don't know or, 320 00:19:57,640 --> 00:20:01,200 or music shows like the Voice or the X Factor, we see somebody come on, 321 00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:04,200 they, they don't, they don't look like a singer, they don't 322 00:20:04,920 --> 00:20:08,280 move like a singer, they don't sound when they speak like a singer. 323 00:20:08,760 --> 00:20:12,560 But when they suddenly sing, some of them, not all 324 00:20:12,560 --> 00:20:16,240 of them actually some of them completely surprise us with, 325 00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:19,880 with this beautiful, amazing, crazy voice. Right? Yeah. 326 00:20:19,880 --> 00:20:23,330 It's the same with, with speaking on stage, 327 00:20:24,050 --> 00:20:27,650 people will come out and obviously you've got to look as 328 00:20:27,650 --> 00:20:31,170 respectable as you can and create all these points 329 00:20:31,250 --> 00:20:34,770 of, of trying to persuade your audience or 330 00:20:34,930 --> 00:20:38,730 that judgment that they're giving you, trying to get closer 331 00:20:38,730 --> 00:20:42,570 to where you want to be. But your voice is number one. So 332 00:20:42,570 --> 00:20:46,290 that's the number one thing. Now in terms of visual aids, in terms of 333 00:20:46,290 --> 00:20:49,770 slides, these are all there so simply just to help 334 00:20:50,730 --> 00:20:54,370 make things maybe even more clearer. Especially when it's 335 00:20:54,370 --> 00:20:58,010 maybe a complex theme or topic, 336 00:20:58,250 --> 00:21:01,290 using slides which make things simple 337 00:21:02,010 --> 00:21:05,210 can really help. Right. Also, it also 338 00:21:05,930 --> 00:21:09,730 sometimes takes away the, you know, we want, we want, as a speaker, we 339 00:21:09,730 --> 00:21:13,490 want most, we want people to be listening to us, focused on us. But let's 340 00:21:13,490 --> 00:21:16,830 say so quite. It's a longer speech or a 341 00:21:16,830 --> 00:21:20,470 longer talk, just a switch 342 00:21:21,350 --> 00:21:25,190 to the slide can just again, just break up 343 00:21:25,190 --> 00:21:29,030 that. The movement and also give us, give our brain something a 344 00:21:29,030 --> 00:21:32,870 little bit more stimulating to focus on and then you come back 345 00:21:33,270 --> 00:21:36,230 and again when I'm nodding. So if I want, for example, if I want you 346 00:21:36,230 --> 00:21:40,070 to agree with me on something or I know it's something that 347 00:21:40,070 --> 00:21:43,610 you probably would agree with, right. 348 00:21:43,690 --> 00:21:47,330 I can use, I can, I could say something like, listen, you'll agree 349 00:21:47,330 --> 00:21:50,490 with me that, that right now the situation in terms of 350 00:21:50,730 --> 00:21:53,450 inflation pretty much across the globe, 351 00:21:54,650 --> 00:21:57,730 it's tough and it's tough for me and it's, it's, I'm sure it's tough for 352 00:21:57,730 --> 00:22:01,290 you as well, right? You'd agree with me there, right? So even just like 353 00:22:01,370 --> 00:22:04,650 by saying something that I think you're going to agree with me on, 354 00:22:05,530 --> 00:22:09,060 nodding and doing this movement can really help. And 355 00:22:09,060 --> 00:22:12,860 presenters, weather presenters often do that. Whoops. Often do 356 00:22:12,860 --> 00:22:16,460 that movement as well. So the next time you're 357 00:22:16,460 --> 00:22:19,900 watching a presenter, weather presenter, try to see 358 00:22:20,860 --> 00:22:23,820 the movement they do. And in fact, I'll tell you this now, there is actually 359 00:22:23,980 --> 00:22:27,180 one presenter in the uk, she's on BBC. 360 00:22:27,420 --> 00:22:31,180 She's energetic, she's got a really smooth voice, 361 00:22:31,420 --> 00:22:35,190 lovely tone. She's an attractive woman as well, which also helps. But, but 362 00:22:35,190 --> 00:22:38,950 right at the end, right at the end when she's finished, what 363 00:22:38,950 --> 00:22:42,790 she does, and she does this every single time, she gives a 364 00:22:42,790 --> 00:22:46,630 little wink, just a small little 365 00:22:46,950 --> 00:22:50,630 wink and she. I'm not saying that's good or bad, but 366 00:22:50,630 --> 00:22:54,470 she gets away with it because it's all part of this feel 367 00:22:54,470 --> 00:22:57,990 good, two minute, snappy 368 00:22:58,550 --> 00:23:02,150 engagement that hopefully people will remember. 369 00:23:02,150 --> 00:23:05,340 And they remember. I certainly remember that week. 370 00:23:06,220 --> 00:23:09,660 Yeah. So it's about being purposeful, right? You're thinking about every 371 00:23:09,660 --> 00:23:13,260 gesture as a extension of what you're saying to help. 372 00:23:13,340 --> 00:23:17,100 You know, I think with the nodding in particular, it reminds me of what's 373 00:23:17,100 --> 00:23:20,699 called mirror neurons. Right. Like we have these neurons that will fire. 374 00:23:20,699 --> 00:23:24,500 If I see you doing smiling, for instance, smiling is a big one. If 375 00:23:24,500 --> 00:23:28,180 I'm smiling, I'm happy. You are much more likely to 376 00:23:28,180 --> 00:23:31,860 feel that need and want to smile because our neurons start to fire. Like, 377 00:23:31,860 --> 00:23:35,570 oh, we're smiling today. So I think there's a lot to that. But being 378 00:23:35,570 --> 00:23:39,290 very purposeful in those things to help engage your audience 379 00:23:39,290 --> 00:23:42,450 so that they're coming along with you and they're trusting you. And of course, trust 380 00:23:42,450 --> 00:23:45,770 is a delicate thing. I want to flip the script a little bit and let's 381 00:23:45,770 --> 00:23:49,410 talk about things that You've seen that break that 382 00:23:49,410 --> 00:23:53,010 trust like and obviously we've talked. You could take all the things you just said 383 00:23:53,010 --> 00:23:56,810 and we, you know, well, don't use hand gestures, don't look at the camera. But 384 00:23:56,810 --> 00:23:59,780 are there other things you see that just you're like, oh, oh my gosh, that, 385 00:23:59,780 --> 00:24:03,100 that really can make it hard for an audience 386 00:24:03,500 --> 00:24:07,300 to connect with a presenter or break that trust right 387 00:24:07,300 --> 00:24:10,740 away that they're doing something that's like, oh, that could have been a good 388 00:24:10,740 --> 00:24:14,220 presentation. Low hanging fruit. Naturally, our logistics 389 00:24:14,220 --> 00:24:17,980 out set up. If it's okay, I've got a ring light here, I've 390 00:24:17,980 --> 00:24:21,780 got one, I've got a light here. You've got yours professionally as 391 00:24:21,780 --> 00:24:25,040 well. But we don't everybody else, you don't need to buy a ring light. You 392 00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:28,240 just have to make sure you've got light in front of you. Light which lets 393 00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:31,840 people see your face, light which lets seek 394 00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:35,400 people see your expressions. If they can't or if it's 395 00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:38,520 difficult to do that, it becomes a big 396 00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:41,800 distraction. It becomes far bigger than. 397 00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:46,120 It becomes a very big distraction indeed. Another big distraction 398 00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:49,880 is the sound. If the sound is your computer audio 399 00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:53,650 and that seems to be okay. If it's some, if it's a specialized 400 00:24:53,650 --> 00:24:57,170 mic that you've bought or you know, great equipment like you've got as well, this 401 00:24:57,170 --> 00:25:00,890 is all fantastic. However, if it, if 402 00:25:00,890 --> 00:25:04,610 the, the, the audio, if there's crackling or 403 00:25:04,610 --> 00:25:08,370 if you can't hear it enough or there's something this, there's a 404 00:25:08,370 --> 00:25:12,010 disturbance that becomes a real distraction, 405 00:25:12,250 --> 00:25:15,850 right? It's the same as like WI Fi, you know, when there's a, when that, 406 00:25:15,850 --> 00:25:19,300 you know, with WI fi, if we have to wait a while, even if it's 407 00:25:19,300 --> 00:25:22,860 for 30 seconds, 10 seconds even, we get agitated, 408 00:25:22,860 --> 00:25:25,740 right? Because in this world we live in right now, everything has to be like 409 00:25:25,740 --> 00:25:29,460 straight away. So if we can't see you clearly or 410 00:25:29,460 --> 00:25:33,260 if there's a distraction, if we can't hear you clearly or there's a distraction, 411 00:25:33,580 --> 00:25:36,860 these are the things that are going to really start. 412 00:25:38,060 --> 00:25:40,780 You're starting on the wrong foot. Just think about 413 00:25:41,900 --> 00:25:45,700 what people see all in this box. Because again, 414 00:25:45,780 --> 00:25:49,300 we have full control over this 415 00:25:49,780 --> 00:25:53,500 and that's a good thing. So I can actually spend 416 00:25:53,500 --> 00:25:57,300 and you can as well, you know, hours and hours and 417 00:25:57,380 --> 00:26:00,180 thinking about what you want people to see 418 00:26:01,300 --> 00:26:04,500 and that's a good thing. Other places you can't control that. When you go for 419 00:26:04,500 --> 00:26:08,340 a meeting or presentation, you depend on the environment, 420 00:26:08,580 --> 00:26:11,840 on the room, on the conference hall, on the stage. 421 00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:16,160 But if we can, if we can. And here we can control it. Like I 422 00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:20,000 say, you can control all of this. So if you can create something that 423 00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:23,520 actually gets closer to what you want people to feel 424 00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:25,840 and what you want people to 425 00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:31,800 get from this exchange, and that could be very different. It could be 426 00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:35,040 very different depending on that exchange you have. Right. 427 00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:39,040 So if you thinking about it and just, just having a little bit of 428 00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:42,480 time, I've said hours and hours, but you don't need, obviously hours and hours, just 429 00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:46,480 five minutes of thinking, okay, what do I. And you can play around with it. 430 00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:50,240 You can play all day. I can go. You can pop into different rooms all 431 00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:53,520 day to try to get a spot which 432 00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:57,280 seems to work. A spot which seems to work and 433 00:26:57,280 --> 00:27:00,920 feels natural. Right? Yeah. And I love that. And 434 00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:04,590 it's always, it has always been worth my time to, to make sure whatever's behind 435 00:27:04,590 --> 00:27:08,430 me looks good and is set. So. But we want to thank you for 436 00:27:08,430 --> 00:27:11,670 joining us. So before we wrap up, where can people connect with you? If they 437 00:27:11,670 --> 00:27:14,790 want to learn more, they want to connect with you and maybe getting some speak, 438 00:27:14,870 --> 00:27:18,150 speaking, consulting or whatever it is that they'd like to do. How can they connect 439 00:27:18,150 --> 00:27:21,670 with you? Yeah, the best, best way, go over to 440 00:27:21,670 --> 00:27:25,350 LinkedIn, find me there. Peter Hopwood, Speaker, Coach 441 00:27:25,350 --> 00:27:28,390 Tedx. You'll find me. It'll come up probably quite quickly 442 00:27:29,120 --> 00:27:32,960 on, on the screen. Connect with, with me there. If, if you're 443 00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:36,800 connecting and you've listened to this podcast, you know, write a little note that 444 00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:40,440 you've, you've been listening to the podcast. You can see everything that I've been 445 00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:43,680 doing. That will give you a good flavor of 446 00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:47,520 maybe, just maybe how I can help you or your teams with, 447 00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:50,760 with their communication as well. So jump over to LinkedIn and you can find me 448 00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:54,440 there. Fantastic. Now we like to, to wrap up with our final 449 00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:58,060 take. Peter, this is our, our, our quick summary of kind of big idea of 450 00:27:58,060 --> 00:28:01,900 something we talked about today. So Peter, what is your 451 00:28:01,900 --> 00:28:05,540 final take? My final take 452 00:28:05,540 --> 00:28:09,380 really is simply all, all around, all based 453 00:28:09,380 --> 00:28:12,860 around one word, and that is curiosity. 454 00:28:13,420 --> 00:28:17,260 Showing curiosity. Feeling like you're 455 00:28:17,260 --> 00:28:20,980 curious will make the other person that's looking at you, 456 00:28:20,980 --> 00:28:24,830 listening to you feel like you want to connect with them. So if you 457 00:28:24,830 --> 00:28:28,190 can show that, if you can show it through how you look, how you move 458 00:28:28,430 --> 00:28:32,230 your voice so your voice is so, so important. If you can, you 459 00:28:32,230 --> 00:28:35,870 can show your intention of that curiosity 460 00:28:36,270 --> 00:28:40,110 that you want to connect, that you're interested in 461 00:28:40,110 --> 00:28:43,950 the other person who's on the other side of the camera, then, then that, 462 00:28:43,950 --> 00:28:47,710 that should help you become a stronger, communicating, 463 00:28:47,710 --> 00:28:51,410 getting better, and getting good at this. 464 00:28:52,850 --> 00:28:56,450 Fantastic. Peter, thank you so much for joining me today in the Visual 465 00:28:56,450 --> 00:29:00,130 Lounge. Well, thank you so much. I hope we can do this once 466 00:29:00,130 --> 00:29:03,850 again sometime in the future. You bet. Well, everybody, we 467 00:29:03,850 --> 00:29:06,850 want to thank you for tuning in today's show. I hope you got some really 468 00:29:06,930 --> 00:29:10,450 strong ideas about what you can do to get better in your 469 00:29:10,450 --> 00:29:14,130 presence, to build that trust and to not break that trust as you're on camera. 470 00:29:14,620 --> 00:29:17,540 Because, you know, we talk about this all the time on the Visual Lounge is 471 00:29:17,540 --> 00:29:21,380 that it's. It's not about, you know, doing everything all awesome at 472 00:29:21,380 --> 00:29:25,020 once. It's about building those skills over and over, and it's starting with that first 473 00:29:25,020 --> 00:29:28,660 video. Starting with. By trying to look at the camera a little bit more. Doing 474 00:29:28,660 --> 00:29:32,140 the things that Peter taught us to do today will help you get better. 475 00:29:32,300 --> 00:29:34,980 So as we like to end every show, we hope you take a little bit 476 00:29:34,980 --> 00:29:38,060 of time to level up, and we'll see you next time.