Showing curiosity, feeling like you're

curious will make the other person that's looking at you,

listening to you feel like you want to connect with them. So if you

can show that, if you can show it through how you look, how you move

your voice so your voice is so, so important, if you can,

you can show your intention of that

curiosity that you want to connect, that you're

interested in, in the other person who's on the other side of

the camera, then, then that, that should help you become

a stronger communicator and getting better and getting good

at this.

Good morning, good evening, good afternoon. Wherever you are and wherever you're watching

from. My name is Matt Pearce, host of the Visual Lounge, where we talk about

using images and videos in the workplace. Today

we're going to be talking about something I think is really important. As you get

on camera, as you're on screen for people, it is

so easy to not build trust. It's easy to lose trust. So

we're going to be talking with a speaking coach and expert about on camera

presence and how not to lose that trust. So Peter travels the

hybrid globe helping speakers, high performing professionals, corporate

teams, TEDx speakers and founders to share more powerful

stories and, and build accurate speaking and presence skills.

With that all said, please help me welcome Peter Hopwood to the

Visual Lounge. Hey, Peter. Curious, how did you get started

with using like video and images in your work?

Yeah, well, essentially as a speaker coach and

helping people to stand on stages and in

boardrooms really connect by what they say, by how they move,

by, by the connections they're trying to achieve

through the pandemic. That was obviously a time where, you

know, all my traveling stopped. I couldn't do it in person anymore. And

after a kind of a long period of just

wallowing and not really stepping up, I realized that

actually here, this, in this screen, in this box,

there are skills to be learned to connect.

Right? So it's not clearly not the same as when you're

in person and trying to do the same thing, connect, build that trust, build that

connection here on a screen, it's different. There

are so many other things that have, you have to think about things that,

skills that you can learn, behaviors you can share.

And so simply through the pandemic,

two years or so, that was really where I

was able to kind of share my skills to help other people really

create this, this connection. So whether it be sales teams

that were trying to have a, trying to get good at this

with their intro calls, building up that trust, building up that relationship at the

beginning of their, of their sales journey or whether it was

presenters or, or people who had to share certain

information through the screen and do it in a good way, it gave me the

chance to do that. So, so really, although I was doing it many years before

as a presenter as well through the pandemic, that was really, I kind of

gave me a chance to hone in on, on the real skills and

as I say, behaviors, their behaviors, behaviors

to get good at this. And when you get good at this or you

start to get good at this, you

actually start to leave the competitors behind. You start, you start

to excel and people remember you better. They, they build up more trust

with you quicker and yeah, it's good for business

and everybody can connect with you better. But

still, this is not natural, this is not a natural

thing we should be doing. However, as I say, you, if

you look at it as a, you know, strategic things you have to do,

strategic behaviors, skills, ways

of moving, ways of, of speaking, your

intention, your eye contact, all these, all these things you can put together

and work on quite quickly. You can start

to, as I say, start to get good at this. Feel, feel confident

at this and feel confident that what you say,

what you, how you show up is actually going to connect better with the

people that are looking at you. How would what, what does success

look like for a good on camera

presence? Like, how would you know if you're being successful at it?

That's a fantastic question you just asked there because it's really

difficult to know whether you're doing

well or you're not doing well, right? But maybe use

this as a gauge. So basically, essentially when you're

on camera, when you're doing your zoom calls, your virtual exchanges,

record one or two of them, right? Have a look back

at what you look like, right? So it's all about

critiquing yourself and being aware of what this

box is like to the people that are looking

at it, right? So the perception. So look at the way

you're looking at the camera. Look at the way perhaps are your,

are your, do you have gestures? Are they moving? Does it seem like

this is dynamic? When you look back at yourself, do you look at yourself and

see yourself looking curious or feeling

the intention you want to feel when you're connecting with that person.

So, but doing it will actually really and

quite quickly help you to probably do two things. Number

one, you'll realize you're not as bad as you think, okay.

And number two, you'll start to see things that

actually you know, I could have done that better. Or maybe what, you know, why

was I moving so much? Or maybe I wasn't moving

enough. Maybe I didn't have enough gestures, or maybe my background

was. It just seems like there's something. Something

not right or something that is not helping the

communication, not helping to build up trust, or not

even. Maybe not even helping the conversation. So when there's

curiosity, that's. That's a really important word I want to throw in there. So

in this box, gesturing is good. It's really good

because it shows the other person that we're

alive, that we're moving, keeping animated, but not. Not

a distraction. But keeping animated is something that, again,

helps the other person feel like, okay, this

is going somewhere. This is actually a connection. It keeps our brains

moving and stimulated as well. So all these things, just

by looking at yourself, you'll be able to tell whether

you feel like you're getting somewhere or not. Our

audiences, whether they're online or whether they're

virtual or even live, they don't have to.

And they don't always do it. They don't have to give us the signals

that we interpret as signals of

listening or signals of being engaged. Right? So sometimes, quite. Actually

quite often, certainly here in this environment,

I think we have to kind of just believe in ourselves that we actually doing

this in the right way. We're doing all the things we should be doing.

We're trying to show curiosity, as I say, we're

using gestures to. To let them see that we're. That we have

a better intonation with our voice, naturally. So the more we. We're

using our gestures. And you can see here, I'm just simply. I'm not

using gestures, like large gestures all the

time, but you can see what my hands are doing, and. And you

can see I'm using them as batons. I'm using them as. Using

the rhythm as well. But you can see you have an indication of what they're

doing. So just the gestures can really help. But going back to the

original topic here, again, I think we sometimes have to just

believe in what we're doing,

know we're trying to do, trying to engage. And even if we don't

get the engagement back because we can't, I mean, to

expect it is probably wrong because not

everybody will show they're engaged. Not everybody will show

they like what they hear, then not everybody will show that

they're actually listening to you, although they may well

be listening to you. I know as a fact, you know, when I'm really

listening to someone or I'm really thinking or I'm making a decision about

something. Often listening to pictures. Let's say

I'm. I'm actually. I've got my. I've got a frown on my face. My arms

are kind of like. Like this. I'm sort of leaning back

slightly. But in fact, these may look as if they're kind of

closed gestures. But in fact, for many, when we think

we cross our arms or we have a frown. Right. Yep.

We go back slightly. Right. So. So if we were to take all

these individual signals that

we see and that we hear or don't hear,

I'm sure it would start to play with us, play with our minds,

and we would start to doubt. Right. So. So what I say

to, you know, everybody that I work with in terms of people who stand on

the stage, certainly, and again on screen as well. Well,

I. I love it. And you've already given us so many great things. I. I

want to get to our third question, then we'll dive into more about trust because

I think it's, you know, you've given us a couple things like gestures or some

things that you can do to be successful to improve. What

would you say is like one more tip, just quick tip that you think would

improve someone. Their presence on video? Obviously, I think there's

energy. I think one thing I've noticed you doing during this even is you lean

in a little bit. Like you're like kind of back then. You're like, lean in

and talk. Got any kind of one thing you think anyone can do

to improve kind of quickly? Yeah, I mean, I

dibbled and dabbled on quite a few things there. So the moving. So essentially

I stand up. I stand up because it helps

me to feel more stable.

I can. I feel like. So, like when I'm

presenting, or even if this was just an intro call, a sales intro call,

just standing up is almost like saying, you know, I'm. I'm here

to show myself. I'm here to. To show you respect

in a way. Although that sitting down and standing up in terms of respect

isn't really a lot. However, in my mind, when

I'm standing up, I feel like I'm kind of giving you more respect because

I, you know, I'm. I'm here to. To meet you. Right.

So. So standing up can give me this. This. You can see,

I can actually go. I can lean in. I can do my gestures as well.

I can go. I can say something that's. That I Want you to hear more.

I can lean in when I'm listening. I might lean back slightly. I can

do all these things if I was sitting down, and it's more difficult to

do that. And again, the sound that's coming through

my voice is only as good as the air

that goes inside and comes out. And if you're sitting down, especially if

you're sitting down all day, by the end of the day, you know what it

feels like everyone does at an office by their

desk. You know, your stomach is all kind of scrumpled up

and the air is. The air isn't as good as it could be. So

standing is a good one. So if I was to give you one

other big tip, so the eye contact. I think I've already mentioned

that as well. Again, just by practicing

looking at the lens. Now, this is a big one for so many people,

right? So many people have an issue with this. Still have an issue

with it. Because when I look clearly, when I look at the lens

and there's other people on the call, I can't see what they're doing. I

can have an idea, I've got an idea of what's happening,

but I can't actually see their eyes and get the

connection that maybe I want. However, priority, I always say the

priority is what? Is it me looking at you or

is it you building up the trust in me? I

want you, let's say this was a sales call. I want you to build

up the trust in me. I want you to feel like I'm curious

about you, curious about how we can work together, curious about

the work we can do together as a collaboration. Right?

So the more I kind of look at you, the more I give

you my eyes, the more I kind of show

you, look through this screen and imagine you

here, the more you have the feeling like

I'm respecting you, an element of respect when

I look at you more especially when you're talking to me.

So if somebody else is looking, talking to me through their

camera, but maybe not looking at the camera, as I'm looking at the

camera, they'll still see me looking at them

as if I'm really listening to them. So doing it as

much as you can, again, it's a really sort of strange thing to get used

to. But you've got used to it. I've got used

to it. Presenters, we do it all the time by looking at the camera and.

And imagining this camera, that is where. That

is where that person is that you're talking to you. So I'm looking at the

camera now to my left is. I

can see with the peripheral vision, I can see you

nodding. It's practice getting used to it, but

the more you do it and again looking back at it when

you've recorded yourself, you'll see that actually this is

actually a really good thing. So if you start with that, get used to that,

it will start to boost up your confidence and as I say, you'll start

to get better on this virtual journey. Really

great advice for anyone who's listening. Get good at looking into

your lens. So I want to learn from you the things I can do to

build trust and not inadvertently break some of the trust

when we're in these relationships. Whether it's a virtual experience like this

or even if it's like a pre recorded where, where someone's going to watch

it because I imagine they're similar. Obviously there's differences, but I imagine if

you're watching a video of me and I'm doing something that's

maybe going to break some of that trust, I want to know so I can

get better at it for you. Why is trust in

this environment? So if you could sum it up

quick, two sentence. Why is trust so important?

I think we all kind of know it and feel it, but I'd love to

hear it from you. Okay. In person

we, we can show so many other signals that, that

build up that trust that help us, help us

help the other person when they're perceiving us, when they're judging us. They have

so many other things, they have lots of things to go by. Right.

And in a natural human connection environment,

we've been as, as kids, we grow up to be

teenagers, to be, be adults. We've been trying to

connect and meet people, we shake their hand, we say a few words,

we then talk about other things, we smile. All these things,

all these things we've been doing for years, right? So we kind of, we kind

of as humans, we're kind of good at it. But here we don't, we don't

have those, we don't have those at all. All we really have, all we

really have is a box, a flat box, right?

And so we have to kind of imitate as many things as we can

from the in person world to here. If

I'm, if I start to lose your attention

through, through what you see or through what I

say or through how I say something with

the tone, with the sounds that you hear,

you on the other side can just

with your finger click and leave me.

Yeah, right. We can't do that in the real world. Right. It's really difficult to

do it. Well, you could, you could just, you just like, walk away, just. I'm

out of here. Right, but. Or in an audience listening to a

conference, most people don't just get up and walk. Some people do, but most people.

I haven't. Maybe you have, but most people don't get up and just walk out.

Right. But here, whether it's something on YouTube, whether

it's recorded, whatever it is, we, you know, our audience are really

powerful, are far more powerful here than anywhere

else because with their finger bang, they can just click and then we're gone.

We're gone forever. Maybe not forever, but we're gone at that moment.

So really, we have to keep people, to get people's

attention and keep their attention. That's probably, probably

even more difficult right here than anywhere else.

You have to grab it and maintain that attention

throughout. Right? So, so, so in

terms of trust, these are the things we really need to think about.

You know, we. We have to. Again, I have to gain your

attention. You don't owe me a thing.

Listening to me now. You listening to me now? Okay.

It's your podcast. You invite me on, and

naturally you. You want me here. However, listeners,

people that are watching this or watching a clip of this, they

owe me nothing. They owe you nothing, Matthew. They owe nobody

anything. And they don't owe us anything to stick around. So they don't have to

stay with us, they don't have to listen to us, they don't have to subscribe.

They have their choice. So we have to give

them something in terms of value,

something in terms of why they're going to stick around. Right? So we have to

build up that value, and we have to accept that people can

just leave us just with a click of a finger. So

we have to, we have to really build up that trust right from the

beginning and really, again, show curiosity,

show that we want to give value, show that we're ready to give something.

As a mindset has always helped me, and that's something, you

know, when I'm speaking to, working with, coaching

speakers, coaching people who are pitching, time is

the biggest commodity of all. Right? So you really have to

respect that they're giving you their time. They

don't have to. No one does. But they have. Hopefully they

have. Hopefully they're still with us right now. Right? Right. And we have to

give them back the value. What's the role of, like, in

your work and what you've seen the role of like the visual

aids that come up, you know, so if someone's given a presentation,

I've watched tons of TED type presentations

and it's obviously the onstage movement that those

interactions are really important and they focus on in an 18

minute video, they probably focus most of it on the person telling the

story. But we also see these visuals. So how does that

play into building trust with the audience, if at all?

So, okay, so we watch it. Let's say we're watching a TedX talk.

The number one thing. Thing. The number one thing certainly

for me in, in all of this that is going to grab

our attention. That's going to really keep us hopefully

engaged. Hopefully sticking with,

emotionally sticking with what the speaker is saying

is actually, and you'll probably, you'll, you may disagree with me,

but it's actually the voice, okay. The sound. So

sound is so important. So you can have somebody that's walking

on stage, looks a mess, you know,

looks a total mess. Right. Although you, when you do a TEDx or who, who

would look a mess, most people don't look. However, somebody that's

not looking that, that, you know, respectable.

I don't know if he comes on or she comes on

and you've already made this judgment in your, in your mind about who

they are. It's often when we see like reality shows like I don't know or,

or music shows like the Voice or the X Factor, we see somebody come on,

they, they don't, they don't look like a singer, they don't

move like a singer, they don't sound when they speak like a singer.

But when they suddenly sing, some of them, not all

of them actually some of them completely surprise us with,

with this beautiful, amazing, crazy voice. Right? Yeah.

It's the same with, with speaking on stage,

people will come out and obviously you've got to look as

respectable as you can and create all these points

of, of trying to persuade your audience or

that judgment that they're giving you, trying to get closer

to where you want to be. But your voice is number one. So

that's the number one thing. Now in terms of visual aids, in terms of

slides, these are all there so simply just to help

make things maybe even more clearer. Especially when it's

maybe a complex theme or topic,

using slides which make things simple

can really help. Right. Also, it also

sometimes takes away the, you know, we want, we want, as a speaker, we

want most, we want people to be listening to us, focused on us. But let's

say so quite. It's a longer speech or a

longer talk, just a switch

to the slide can just again, just break up

that. The movement and also give us, give our brain something a

little bit more stimulating to focus on and then you come back

and again when I'm nodding. So if I want, for example, if I want you

to agree with me on something or I know it's something that

you probably would agree with, right.

I can use, I can, I could say something like, listen, you'll agree

with me that, that right now the situation in terms of

inflation pretty much across the globe,

it's tough and it's tough for me and it's, it's, I'm sure it's tough for

you as well, right? You'd agree with me there, right? So even just like

by saying something that I think you're going to agree with me on,

nodding and doing this movement can really help. And

presenters, weather presenters often do that. Whoops. Often do

that movement as well. So the next time you're

watching a presenter, weather presenter, try to see

the movement they do. And in fact, I'll tell you this now, there is actually

one presenter in the uk, she's on BBC.

She's energetic, she's got a really smooth voice,

lovely tone. She's an attractive woman as well, which also helps. But, but

right at the end, right at the end when she's finished, what

she does, and she does this every single time, she gives a

little wink, just a small little

wink and she. I'm not saying that's good or bad, but

she gets away with it because it's all part of this feel

good, two minute, snappy

engagement that hopefully people will remember.

And they remember. I certainly remember that week.

Yeah. So it's about being purposeful, right? You're thinking about every

gesture as a extension of what you're saying to help.

You know, I think with the nodding in particular, it reminds me of what's

called mirror neurons. Right. Like we have these neurons that will fire.

If I see you doing smiling, for instance, smiling is a big one. If

I'm smiling, I'm happy. You are much more likely to

feel that need and want to smile because our neurons start to fire. Like,

oh, we're smiling today. So I think there's a lot to that. But being

very purposeful in those things to help engage your audience

so that they're coming along with you and they're trusting you. And of course, trust

is a delicate thing. I want to flip the script a little bit and let's

talk about things that You've seen that break that

trust like and obviously we've talked. You could take all the things you just said

and we, you know, well, don't use hand gestures, don't look at the camera. But

are there other things you see that just you're like, oh, oh my gosh, that,

that really can make it hard for an audience

to connect with a presenter or break that trust right

away that they're doing something that's like, oh, that could have been a good

presentation. Low hanging fruit. Naturally, our logistics

out set up. If it's okay, I've got a ring light here, I've

got one, I've got a light here. You've got yours professionally as

well. But we don't everybody else, you don't need to buy a ring light. You

just have to make sure you've got light in front of you. Light which lets

people see your face, light which lets seek

people see your expressions. If they can't or if it's

difficult to do that, it becomes a big

distraction. It becomes far bigger than.

It becomes a very big distraction indeed. Another big distraction

is the sound. If the sound is your computer audio

and that seems to be okay. If it's some, if it's a specialized

mic that you've bought or you know, great equipment like you've got as well, this

is all fantastic. However, if it, if

the, the, the audio, if there's crackling or

if you can't hear it enough or there's something this, there's a

disturbance that becomes a real distraction,

right? It's the same as like WI Fi, you know, when there's a, when that,

you know, with WI fi, if we have to wait a while, even if it's

for 30 seconds, 10 seconds even, we get agitated,

right? Because in this world we live in right now, everything has to be like

straight away. So if we can't see you clearly or

if there's a distraction, if we can't hear you clearly or there's a distraction,

these are the things that are going to really start.

You're starting on the wrong foot. Just think about

what people see all in this box. Because again,

we have full control over this

and that's a good thing. So I can actually spend

and you can as well, you know, hours and hours and

thinking about what you want people to see

and that's a good thing. Other places you can't control that. When you go for

a meeting or presentation, you depend on the environment,

on the room, on the conference hall, on the stage.

But if we can, if we can. And here we can control it. Like I

say, you can control all of this. So if you can create something that

actually gets closer to what you want people to feel

and what you want people to

get from this exchange, and that could be very different. It could be

very different depending on that exchange you have. Right.

So if you thinking about it and just, just having a little bit of

time, I've said hours and hours, but you don't need, obviously hours and hours, just

five minutes of thinking, okay, what do I. And you can play around with it.

You can play all day. I can go. You can pop into different rooms all

day to try to get a spot which

seems to work. A spot which seems to work and

feels natural. Right? Yeah. And I love that. And

it's always, it has always been worth my time to, to make sure whatever's behind

me looks good and is set. So. But we want to thank you for

joining us. So before we wrap up, where can people connect with you? If they

want to learn more, they want to connect with you and maybe getting some speak,

speaking, consulting or whatever it is that they'd like to do. How can they connect

with you? Yeah, the best, best way, go over to

LinkedIn, find me there. Peter Hopwood, Speaker, Coach

Tedx. You'll find me. It'll come up probably quite quickly

on, on the screen. Connect with, with me there. If, if you're

connecting and you've listened to this podcast, you know, write a little note that

you've, you've been listening to the podcast. You can see everything that I've been

doing. That will give you a good flavor of

maybe, just maybe how I can help you or your teams with,

with their communication as well. So jump over to LinkedIn and you can find me

there. Fantastic. Now we like to, to wrap up with our final

take. Peter, this is our, our, our quick summary of kind of big idea of

something we talked about today. So Peter, what is your

final take? My final take

really is simply all, all around, all based

around one word, and that is curiosity.

Showing curiosity. Feeling like you're

curious will make the other person that's looking at you,

listening to you feel like you want to connect with them. So if you

can show that, if you can show it through how you look, how you move

your voice so your voice is so, so important. If you can, you

can show your intention of that curiosity

that you want to connect, that you're interested in

the other person who's on the other side of the camera, then, then that,

that should help you become a stronger, communicating,

getting better, and getting good at this.

Fantastic. Peter, thank you so much for joining me today in the Visual

Lounge. Well, thank you so much. I hope we can do this once

again sometime in the future. You bet. Well, everybody, we

want to thank you for tuning in today's show. I hope you got some really

strong ideas about what you can do to get better in your

presence, to build that trust and to not break that trust as you're on camera.

Because, you know, we talk about this all the time on the Visual Lounge is

that it's. It's not about, you know, doing everything all awesome at

once. It's about building those skills over and over, and it's starting with that first

video. Starting with. By trying to look at the camera a little bit more. Doing

the things that Peter taught us to do today will help you get better.

So as we like to end every show, we hope you take a little bit

of time to level up, and we'll see you next time.