1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:03,630 So really, I suppose a good rule of thumb is a, is around about three months if 2 00:00:03,630 --> 00:00:05,559 they haven't purchased something from you. 3 00:00:05,590 --> 00:00:07,539 So, you know, even just having that. 4 00:00:07,559 --> 00:00:11,989 So reminding people that you exist, um, you know, a friendly hello 5 00:00:11,990 --> 00:00:14,769 email can even just be, you know, even that in itself can just. 6 00:00:15,295 --> 00:00:18,995 Make people purchase from you again, again, offering an incentive. 7 00:00:19,005 --> 00:00:21,265 You're not paying because you've got them on your email list. 8 00:00:21,265 --> 00:00:24,164 You're not paying, uh, an acquisition cost. 9 00:00:24,164 --> 00:00:28,195 So you may as well use that within a discount to incentivize them to purchase. 10 00:00:34,487 --> 00:00:38,637 Welcome to the e commerce podcast with me, your host, Matt Edmundson. 11 00:00:38,657 --> 00:00:42,637 The e commerce podcast is all about helping you deliver e commerce. 12 00:00:43,142 --> 00:00:43,682 Wow. 13 00:00:43,722 --> 00:00:49,482 And to help you do just that, well, today I am chatting with today's very special 14 00:00:49,482 --> 00:00:55,012 guest, Laura Hanlon from Pink Leopard E commerce Growth Acceleration Agency. 15 00:00:55,062 --> 00:00:56,552 That's right, Pink Leopards. 16 00:00:56,792 --> 00:01:00,952 We're going to get into that, uh, about how effective email flows 17 00:01:00,952 --> 00:01:03,532 and list building strategies can boost your revenue. 18 00:01:03,532 --> 00:01:07,622 But before Laura and I dive into our conversation, Let me share 19 00:01:07,622 --> 00:01:11,342 with you a previous podcast pick, uh, which is a good alliteration. 20 00:01:11,392 --> 00:01:12,162 I appreciate. 21 00:01:12,502 --> 00:01:16,362 Check out how to increase your customer retention with Brandon. 22 00:01:16,712 --> 00:01:20,322 Uh, that was a phenomenal conversation and also how to grow your business 23 00:01:20,322 --> 00:01:24,912 using email marketing strategies with Tom Koolza from Aweber. 24 00:01:24,952 --> 00:01:28,712 That was another fantastic conversation as well so do check those out. 25 00:01:28,712 --> 00:01:33,542 You can access our podcast picks and our entire podcast archive for free 26 00:01:33,562 --> 00:01:39,477 on our website, which is e commerce podcast . Net, that's ecommercepodcast. 27 00:01:39,507 --> 00:01:44,317 net plus if you're there and you haven't yet to do so, uh, make sure 28 00:01:44,317 --> 00:01:47,927 you sign up to the newsletter and we'll send the links from the podcast picks 29 00:01:47,927 --> 00:01:50,867 along with the notes and the links from today's conversation with Laura. 30 00:01:51,217 --> 00:01:53,897 They would all get sent straight to your inbox totally for free and 31 00:01:53,897 --> 00:01:55,397 no cost to you, which is amazing. 32 00:01:55,627 --> 00:01:58,027 So make sure you sign up for that. 33 00:01:58,087 --> 00:02:00,087 Now show sponsor time. 34 00:02:00,097 --> 00:02:02,637 Are you struggling to grow your e commerce business? 35 00:02:02,647 --> 00:02:03,837 Do you feel? 36 00:02:04,322 --> 00:02:06,752 Like you're constantly spinning your wheels, trying to figure 37 00:02:06,752 --> 00:02:08,902 out what to focus on next. 38 00:02:09,292 --> 00:02:14,002 Well, I have been there and I know how frustrating it can be. 39 00:02:14,262 --> 00:02:16,372 I've been in e commerce since 2002. 40 00:02:16,622 --> 00:02:20,872 I've definitely been there, which is why I love e commerce 41 00:02:21,522 --> 00:02:23,312 cohort, which sponsors this show. 42 00:02:23,362 --> 00:02:24,552 E commerce cohort helps. 43 00:02:24,742 --> 00:02:29,112 Helps, helps and helps e commerce businesses like yours deliver an 44 00:02:29,112 --> 00:02:33,512 exceptional customer experience that drives results and to help you get 45 00:02:33,512 --> 00:02:40,102 started They have a free resource called e commerce cycles It's a mini course which 46 00:02:40,102 --> 00:02:45,122 walks you through our proven framework for building a successful e commerce business 47 00:02:45,472 --> 00:02:50,012 I personally am going to show you the specific steps we take in our own e com 48 00:02:50,012 --> 00:02:55,457 companies So you can see exactly How to put these concepts and practices into your 49 00:02:55,677 --> 00:02:58,457 own business and the good news, it's free. 50 00:02:58,457 --> 00:02:59,917 You don't even need an email. 51 00:02:59,957 --> 00:03:04,767 You can just go and watch it at e commerce cycles.com. 52 00:03:05,147 --> 00:03:06,547 Now that's the show sponsor. 53 00:03:06,747 --> 00:03:09,937 Let's talk about our show's guest. 54 00:03:10,187 --> 00:03:14,497 We are going to meet Laura Hanlon, a former Facebook advertising 55 00:03:14,507 --> 00:03:19,147 expert turned agency owner with a passion for helping businesses. 56 00:03:19,397 --> 00:03:20,007 Thrive. 57 00:03:20,327 --> 00:03:25,037 Her agency, Pink Leopard, offers a multi service approach to marketing 58 00:03:25,227 --> 00:03:26,737 with experts in each field. 59 00:03:26,747 --> 00:03:29,427 Laura believes in the power of omni channel. 60 00:03:29,597 --> 00:03:30,287 Oh, yes. 61 00:03:30,307 --> 00:03:34,607 Emphasizing the importance of email marketing for both customer acquisition 62 00:03:34,637 --> 00:03:40,177 and retention in conjunction with other channels like social media and Google. 63 00:03:40,397 --> 00:03:44,127 So, let's talk to Laura, shall we? 64 00:03:44,127 --> 00:03:45,127 Laura, welcome to the show. 65 00:03:45,127 --> 00:03:45,669 Great to have you. 66 00:03:45,669 --> 00:03:46,867 I was getting a bit tongue tied there, Laura. 67 00:03:46,867 --> 00:03:47,437 I'm not gonna lie. 68 00:03:47,947 --> 00:03:49,117 It's great to have you on the show. 69 00:03:49,147 --> 00:03:49,737 How are we doing? 70 00:03:50,582 --> 00:03:51,882 Oh, thank you so much. 71 00:03:51,912 --> 00:03:52,422 Yeah, good. 72 00:03:52,602 --> 00:03:52,962 Thanks. 73 00:03:53,162 --> 00:03:55,472 I feel like I'm on a radio show or a TV show. 74 00:03:57,872 --> 00:03:58,682 It's one of those. 75 00:03:58,992 --> 00:04:02,222 My friends have always told me, certainly one of my best friends, so 76 00:04:02,222 --> 00:04:05,432 called best friends, has always told me over the last few years, Matt, 77 00:04:05,472 --> 00:04:06,942 you've got a great face for radio. 78 00:04:07,257 --> 00:04:13,377 So, uh, hence the reason I do the podcast, um, but it's, it's, it's great to me. 79 00:04:13,377 --> 00:04:16,897 Our first question for you, uh, Laura, that I have is Pink Leopard. 80 00:04:16,897 --> 00:04:17,937 What's that all about? 81 00:04:20,137 --> 00:04:21,837 Yeah, I get, I do get asked this a lot. 82 00:04:22,237 --> 00:04:25,237 Um, we've got a couple of stories on the Pink Leopard. 83 00:04:25,267 --> 00:04:28,067 Really when I was the, the kind of real story is just starting out. 84 00:04:28,097 --> 00:04:33,452 I was, it was when Moon Pig was, uh, starting out in a big company. 85 00:04:33,452 --> 00:04:36,732 And I, and someone just said, just choose a color and your favorite animal. 86 00:04:36,772 --> 00:04:38,222 So I was like, okay, that's easy. 87 00:04:38,262 --> 00:04:42,372 Pink and leopard, but as it's kind of evolved, um, we work with a 88 00:04:42,372 --> 00:04:44,422 lot of female founded businesses. 89 00:04:44,442 --> 00:04:50,072 Um, so that kind of symbolizes the pink side of things and leopard being, um, 90 00:04:50,482 --> 00:04:55,032 you know, obviously a powerful sort of feline character, so, oh, animal, sorry. 91 00:04:55,062 --> 00:04:58,122 So that's, that's kind of how the name has evolved really. 92 00:04:58,122 --> 00:04:58,732 And it's just. 93 00:04:59,267 --> 00:05:01,817 It's it's stuck now and people seem to remember it. 94 00:05:01,827 --> 00:05:02,347 So that's good. 95 00:05:02,417 --> 00:05:06,877 Although we get called pink panther quite a lot Has it stuck? 96 00:05:06,877 --> 00:05:12,947 I don't know It is interesting if you grew up in a certain age, which I did 97 00:05:12,987 --> 00:05:18,107 I grew up in a certain era, um And the pink panther was a very popular thing 98 00:05:18,177 --> 00:05:22,607 and I've got the pink panther theme in my head, um, which is why I just wanted 99 00:05:22,647 --> 00:05:26,347 to double check that it was pink leopard when we, before we, before we hit the 100 00:05:26,347 --> 00:05:28,087 record button and I didn't get it wrong. 101 00:05:28,557 --> 00:05:29,887 Um, but I like this. 102 00:05:29,897 --> 00:05:32,377 It's like your friend told you to take, pick a color and an 103 00:05:32,387 --> 00:05:33,447 animal and put them together. 104 00:05:33,447 --> 00:05:36,077 And you've got, you've got something interesting as a company name 105 00:05:36,457 --> 00:05:40,497 because founders always struggle with the, what do I call my company? 106 00:05:40,627 --> 00:05:41,867 What do I call my new website? 107 00:05:41,882 --> 00:05:45,552 It's like, what do I call, um, you know, my new podcast 108 00:05:45,552 --> 00:05:46,422 or whatever it's going to be. 109 00:05:46,422 --> 00:05:47,782 The naming of something. 110 00:05:48,442 --> 00:05:51,772 It's almost more difficult, I think, to name your company 111 00:05:51,772 --> 00:05:53,252 than name your first child. 112 00:05:55,347 --> 00:05:56,427 Oh, that is so true. 113 00:05:59,407 --> 00:06:01,997 Yeah, we're going through it with another business at the moment 114 00:06:01,997 --> 00:06:04,197 and it's just, oh, agonizing. 115 00:06:04,477 --> 00:06:07,357 Um, and a child actually, but yeah, it's definitely the business. 116 00:06:10,357 --> 00:06:10,917 And a child as well. 117 00:06:11,132 --> 00:06:12,742 So congratulations. 118 00:06:13,222 --> 00:06:17,042 Uh, and, uh, uh, yeah, just to be clear, Matthew is a brilliant name. 119 00:06:17,222 --> 00:06:22,622 Um, I just telling everybody as much as I can call you kid. 120 00:06:22,622 --> 00:06:22,812 Matt. 121 00:06:23,322 --> 00:06:26,442 So let's get into this, shall we? 122 00:06:26,962 --> 00:06:32,592 Uh, so your agency then, um, we read, uh, is, is a, we, you called it an e 123 00:06:32,592 --> 00:06:34,412 commerce growth accelerator type agency. 124 00:06:34,422 --> 00:06:38,392 You help e commerce agencies grow their businesses. 125 00:06:39,022 --> 00:06:42,192 Um, and so what are some of the. 126 00:06:42,812 --> 00:06:46,632 Common mistakes you see e commerce businesses make 127 00:06:46,682 --> 00:06:48,162 from, from your point of view. 128 00:06:50,282 --> 00:06:56,822 So I think, well, one of the, one of the biggest is, um, focusing on 129 00:06:57,072 --> 00:06:59,642 single channel platforms to grow. 130 00:07:00,112 --> 00:07:02,682 Um, this is something I used to have an e commerce store of 131 00:07:02,692 --> 00:07:04,802 my own, um, a few years ago. 132 00:07:04,912 --> 00:07:05,662 And this was. 133 00:07:06,022 --> 00:07:08,582 You kind of could back then a few years ago, you could have, you 134 00:07:08,582 --> 00:07:14,552 could even have a dodgy website and a real average product and just 135 00:07:14,582 --> 00:07:17,182 literally fly with just Facebook ads. 136 00:07:17,182 --> 00:07:17,992 And that's kind of. 137 00:07:18,442 --> 00:07:22,732 Yeah, where we had started, but I see a lot of brands still trying to, to do 138 00:07:22,732 --> 00:07:27,412 that and not sort of, you know, running across a multi channel, um, strategy 139 00:07:27,412 --> 00:07:29,462 with email and, and Google ads too. 140 00:07:29,492 --> 00:07:32,142 So that's, that's definitely a huge mistake. 141 00:07:32,612 --> 00:07:34,782 Email marketing, obviously something we're going to. 142 00:07:35,052 --> 00:07:39,312 Discuss today, but I see not many businesses doing email marketing very 143 00:07:39,312 --> 00:07:42,322 well, which is, I always find it quite bizarre because it's, it's obviously 144 00:07:42,332 --> 00:07:47,042 a channel that's been around for absolutely ages, but it almost seems like 145 00:07:47,042 --> 00:07:52,172 a, a sort of a new platform sometimes when I'm auditing different accounts. 146 00:07:52,222 --> 00:08:01,042 Um, And also, I think, I think just relying on old strategies, um, I think 147 00:08:01,042 --> 00:08:04,772 sometimes in the e commerce world, you just get stuck in the, you know, with 148 00:08:04,782 --> 00:08:09,432 the same strategies of email marketing or Facebook ads, um, that used to work 149 00:08:09,712 --> 00:08:13,522 and not, it obviously moves so fast, especially, you know, in the world of 150 00:08:13,572 --> 00:08:18,472 Facebook ads since the, the iOS changes and, you know, we see businesses still 151 00:08:19,102 --> 00:08:23,582 Focusing on the same things and not moving along, still just optimizing to 152 00:08:23,582 --> 00:08:28,122 the nth degree instead of focusing, you know, on the kind of new creatives and 153 00:08:28,122 --> 00:08:33,662 really focusing on the brand as opposed to all of the kind of metrics that you 154 00:08:33,662 --> 00:08:37,432 can, you can focus on, which is obviously important, but that's just, yeah, old 155 00:08:37,432 --> 00:08:39,172 strategies I feel aren't working anymore. 156 00:08:39,182 --> 00:08:44,232 So there's, there's some of the sort of bigger things that we, we see. 157 00:08:46,072 --> 00:08:48,142 And it's interesting listening to you talk about that because. 158 00:08:48,557 --> 00:08:54,157 Um, I, I, I have definitely done my fair share of coaching, uh, 159 00:08:54,157 --> 00:08:55,797 in e commerce over the years. 160 00:08:56,557 --> 00:08:59,997 And one of the things that has constantly amazed me and still 161 00:08:59,997 --> 00:09:05,297 amazes me to a large extent is just how bad the email marketing is. 162 00:09:05,557 --> 00:09:10,237 And my experience here is email marketing can contribute like 30 to 40% 163 00:09:10,237 --> 00:09:11,327 of your income when it's done right. 164 00:09:12,457 --> 00:09:12,897 Excuse me. 165 00:09:13,247 --> 00:09:15,657 I don't know if you've got any metrics yourself, but that 166 00:09:15,657 --> 00:09:17,367 tends to be a reasonable figure. 167 00:09:17,927 --> 00:09:22,327 Um, that I can, that I can attribute, uh, good email marketing is going to 168 00:09:22,337 --> 00:09:26,527 be sort of around 30, 40% of your, your, your income, if done right. 169 00:09:28,417 --> 00:09:34,017 What, what are some of the things that you see, um, in email? 170 00:09:34,037 --> 00:09:35,317 I mean, let's jump into email marketing. 171 00:09:35,357 --> 00:09:38,617 Let's, what are some of the things that you see companies doing that maybe? 172 00:09:39,292 --> 00:09:41,072 Maybe they might want to rethink. 173 00:09:41,912 --> 00:09:42,362 Hmm. 174 00:09:43,482 --> 00:09:44,782 Yeah, a lot. 175 00:09:45,772 --> 00:09:48,922 There's a huge, a huge list. 176 00:09:48,942 --> 00:09:49,902 How long have you got, Matt? 177 00:09:51,882 --> 00:09:53,922 I think, well, there's kind of two parts. 178 00:09:53,922 --> 00:09:58,612 And one is, I suppose, on growing the list and the sort of, um, you know, 179 00:09:58,612 --> 00:10:02,232 your email database because without the email database, you don't, uh, you don't 180 00:10:02,272 --> 00:10:06,182 really have a chance of generating a good amount of revenue through email. 181 00:10:06,752 --> 00:10:07,352 Um. 182 00:10:07,597 --> 00:10:11,137 And the other is obviously within the sort of optimization itself. 183 00:10:11,137 --> 00:10:16,117 And there are so many different things down to, um, you know, the 184 00:10:16,117 --> 00:10:18,557 different, not using the right platform. 185 00:10:18,587 --> 00:10:22,467 So particularly with, uh, like email automated email flows, we 186 00:10:22,467 --> 00:10:25,797 often see just that sort of just. 187 00:10:26,487 --> 00:10:29,607 Last minute set up it within Shopify. 188 00:10:29,687 --> 00:10:35,697 Um, the really basic automated flows and they're just not driving any revenue. 189 00:10:36,427 --> 00:10:44,317 Um, things like, uh, really terrible designs, um, not optimizing. 190 00:10:45,522 --> 00:10:48,222 Subject lines, we're not spending a lot of time on the, on the 191 00:10:48,222 --> 00:10:50,192 copy and the content of emails. 192 00:10:50,662 --> 00:10:54,882 Um, and also just blasting, the biggest thing we probably see is 193 00:10:55,162 --> 00:11:00,162 people just blasting emails every single day to absolutely every 194 00:11:00,162 --> 00:11:01,712 single body in their email list. 195 00:11:02,427 --> 00:11:04,967 And that's a huge, huge bug bearer of ours. 196 00:11:04,967 --> 00:11:06,687 That is an absolute no, no. 197 00:11:06,687 --> 00:11:13,247 Um, but yeah, honestly, just, it just feels like it's a, a lot of the time 198 00:11:13,247 --> 00:11:17,247 and energy and effort is spent on the acquisition and the Facebook ads and 199 00:11:17,247 --> 00:11:20,227 Google ads have got to be perfect and they've got to, you know, drive a certain 200 00:11:20,227 --> 00:11:23,597 return on ad spend and then the email marketing is like, ah, well that's, that's 201 00:11:23,597 --> 00:11:24,857 the sort of afterthought or somebody. 202 00:11:25,947 --> 00:11:28,757 doing that, um, you know, not, not spending a lot of 203 00:11:28,767 --> 00:11:29,797 time and attention on it. 204 00:11:30,517 --> 00:11:31,417 So, yeah. 205 00:11:32,427 --> 00:11:36,557 And I think also these days, just to sort of throw something into the mix here, 206 00:11:36,767 --> 00:11:41,007 Laura, because I, everything you've said, I, I think is totally bang on, but I, to 207 00:11:41,017 --> 00:11:45,027 sort of add to the conversation, one thing that I have noticed is since the rise of 208 00:11:45,027 --> 00:11:48,287 GDPR, people have become a lot twitchier. 209 00:11:48,712 --> 00:11:52,462 Um, I don't know if that word translates actually beyond English borders, 210 00:11:52,522 --> 00:11:54,082 uh, if you're outside of the UK. 211 00:11:54,492 --> 00:11:59,772 Uh, people have become a lot more twitchy, a lot more nervous about, um, email 212 00:11:59,792 --> 00:12:02,052 marketing for fear of getting it wrong. 213 00:12:02,472 --> 00:12:04,122 I don't know if this is something that you've spotted, but. 214 00:12:04,802 --> 00:12:07,872 Everybody's asking at the moment about what about GDPR? 215 00:12:07,872 --> 00:12:09,392 What about their rules over there? 216 00:12:09,392 --> 00:12:12,752 You know, California now has their own little system over there and, and, and 217 00:12:12,752 --> 00:12:15,592 trying to keep up with all of that sort of stuff, I think people are becoming 218 00:12:15,592 --> 00:12:20,282 more and more twitchy, um, especially when you hear things like, if you get 219 00:12:20,282 --> 00:12:23,842 this wrong, people are going to find you colossal amounts of cash, you know? 220 00:12:24,352 --> 00:12:26,912 Um, so I think there's a fear aspect of it as well. 221 00:12:26,912 --> 00:12:27,152 Right. 222 00:12:28,362 --> 00:12:29,492 Yeah, definitely. 223 00:12:29,522 --> 00:12:35,082 Um, but I, yeah, I think the big GDPR, GDPR scare came out and. 224 00:12:35,977 --> 00:12:39,137 Yeah, like you say, there is a lot more twitchiness and nervousness 225 00:12:39,157 --> 00:12:43,967 that I'm probably not the best person to speak to when it comes to GDPR, 226 00:12:43,967 --> 00:12:48,297 because I'm sort of like, I just, I still think it's such a great, I 227 00:12:48,297 --> 00:12:50,237 think, I think it's such a great area. 228 00:12:50,417 --> 00:12:55,687 And I always just sort of, you know, ensure our clients that as long as 229 00:12:55,707 --> 00:12:59,797 you've got, if clients are opting in or they're purchasing or they've given 230 00:12:59,797 --> 00:13:03,567 their details, and as long as you've got a way for them to, you know, opt out 231 00:13:03,567 --> 00:13:07,397 and, and subscribe, and you're willing to, you know, you're not trying to, 232 00:13:07,397 --> 00:13:09,957 some you put your details in, don't you? 233 00:13:09,987 --> 00:13:11,357 And there's no way you can get out. 234 00:13:11,367 --> 00:13:13,517 And that's the most frustrating thing in the entire world. 235 00:13:13,557 --> 00:13:15,477 But as long as you have everything in your power to. 236 00:13:16,172 --> 00:13:19,942 Ensure you're sticking to the GDPR rules and, you know, making it 237 00:13:19,942 --> 00:13:21,792 easier for, for your customers. 238 00:13:21,862 --> 00:13:24,572 And I think you're, you know, you're, you're okay. 239 00:13:24,582 --> 00:13:25,262 You're fine. 240 00:13:25,272 --> 00:13:28,992 They're not looking for, they're looking for huge corporations who are 241 00:13:29,022 --> 00:13:32,102 just, you know, buying email lists and things like that, as long as you're 242 00:13:32,102 --> 00:13:33,742 not doing any of the major no nos. 243 00:13:34,172 --> 00:13:38,222 Um, but yeah, like we also have clients that are, you know, they're obsessed 244 00:13:38,222 --> 00:13:41,447 with having the extra check box and then you've got to go through and then you. 245 00:13:41,727 --> 00:13:45,087 You know, once the, once they've opted in, you've got to have another step 246 00:13:45,157 --> 00:13:47,887 and they're putting too many steps in place for somebody to actually 247 00:13:47,927 --> 00:13:49,277 become part of their email list. 248 00:13:49,277 --> 00:13:51,177 It's hurting their business in that way. 249 00:13:51,387 --> 00:13:54,257 So I think being mindful of it, but just not being, you know, completely 250 00:13:54,257 --> 00:13:56,367 freaked out by it is the way to go. 251 00:13:56,517 --> 00:13:59,597 Yeah, because there is the rule of common sense, isn't there? 252 00:13:59,927 --> 00:14:03,977 I can tell you actually, um, a few weeks ago, uh, we had 253 00:14:03,977 --> 00:14:06,377 an email from a German lawyer. 254 00:14:07,157 --> 00:14:09,747 about GDPR for one of our ecom businesses. 255 00:14:10,307 --> 00:14:12,867 And, uh, we, it was a letter in German. 256 00:14:12,867 --> 00:14:16,897 Now bearing in mind, we're an English company and this, this actually is where 257 00:14:16,897 --> 00:14:21,407 it pays to have pretty, pretty good terms and conditions on your website. 258 00:14:21,627 --> 00:14:23,077 Um, little top tip for you. 259 00:14:24,007 --> 00:14:26,327 Because in our terms and conditions, it says that, you know, by 260 00:14:26,427 --> 00:14:30,727 transacting on our website, you're going to be governed by English law. 261 00:14:31,317 --> 00:14:35,367 And so a chap from Germany, apparently, I don't know the full details, got in 262 00:14:35,367 --> 00:14:37,967 touch with our customer service team and said, you need to send me all the 263 00:14:37,967 --> 00:14:42,457 details that you have on me according to GDPR rules, which actually is, in 264 00:14:42,457 --> 00:14:45,377 my understanding, is not a, I'm not a lawyer, so don't take this as gospel. 265 00:14:45,577 --> 00:14:53,262 In my understanding, uh, it's not actually, um, It's not actually the 266 00:14:53,262 --> 00:14:55,932 right way to go and get your details because we don't know who he is. 267 00:14:55,942 --> 00:14:58,102 You can just call up and pretend to be anybody and say, well, send 268 00:14:58,102 --> 00:14:59,302 me all the details that you've got. 269 00:14:59,312 --> 00:15:01,242 So there has to be some mechanism of proof. 270 00:15:01,242 --> 00:15:03,442 So they have to fill out a form, a certain form to get 271 00:15:03,442 --> 00:15:04,982 the data, which they didn't do. 272 00:15:05,572 --> 00:15:08,212 So our customer service agent just said, no, I'm not giving you that information, 273 00:15:08,212 --> 00:15:09,412 which I thought was very sensible. 274 00:15:09,982 --> 00:15:12,062 Um, we then get a letter from the German lawyer. 275 00:15:12,062 --> 00:15:14,212 And the reason I'm telling this story is I think actually these 276 00:15:14,212 --> 00:15:16,982 scams are going to be coming more and more obvious, uh, more and more. 277 00:15:17,657 --> 00:15:19,567 Um, they're going to appear more and more. 278 00:15:19,817 --> 00:15:21,867 Um, and I think we just need to be aware of them. 279 00:15:22,607 --> 00:15:25,707 A German lawyer contacted us and said, you have to pay 7, 000 euros straight 280 00:15:25,707 --> 00:15:27,327 away or we're going to take you to court. 281 00:15:28,377 --> 00:15:33,077 To which our law team, because fortunately we have one, um, as a head barrister, 282 00:15:33,077 --> 00:15:35,847 just emailed them back and said, listen, I'm not even going to respond 283 00:15:35,847 --> 00:15:37,757 to this letter whilst it's in German. 284 00:15:37,787 --> 00:15:38,787 We deal in English. 285 00:15:39,257 --> 00:15:39,997 Um, now that. 286 00:15:40,207 --> 00:15:43,197 Might sound quite harsh, but under the terms and conditions, we're, 287 00:15:43,247 --> 00:15:44,437 we're governed by English law. 288 00:15:44,457 --> 00:15:47,447 So it's like, if you want to take this further, send me a letter in English 289 00:15:47,447 --> 00:15:48,767 and then I'll respond accordingly. 290 00:15:49,627 --> 00:15:51,597 Obviously, we have not heard back from them. 291 00:15:51,597 --> 00:15:55,677 It just feels like they're going to send that email to 20, 000 email, uh, to 20, 292 00:15:55,677 --> 00:15:59,217 000 companies, all of which I dare say he went and registered to their email address 293 00:15:59,257 --> 00:16:02,287 list somewhere, called them up and said, you need to give me my details to which 294 00:16:02,287 --> 00:16:04,157 they've not responded maybe correctly. 295 00:16:04,717 --> 00:16:05,977 And it's scaring a lot of people. 296 00:16:05,977 --> 00:16:08,617 And I think more and more, this is going to become one of those scams. 297 00:16:10,227 --> 00:16:12,157 But I thought actually it's probably just worth mentioning. 298 00:16:12,587 --> 00:16:15,467 Um, uh, you know, don't be afraid. 299 00:16:16,017 --> 00:16:18,897 Uh, when people start sending you legal letters like that, or apparently, 300 00:16:19,267 --> 00:16:22,907 apparent legal letters, um, as long as your terms and conditions are clear. 301 00:16:23,137 --> 00:16:25,837 Um, I don't know if you've come across any of these sort of scams, Laura. 302 00:16:26,997 --> 00:16:29,737 Yeah, I have actually more recently happened to our client. 303 00:16:34,362 --> 00:16:35,182 Like you say, they had their terms and conditions, they had everything 304 00:16:35,192 --> 00:16:37,112 in the privacy policy laid out. 305 00:16:37,182 --> 00:16:39,992 Uh, it was more for Facebook ad data though. 306 00:16:40,242 --> 00:16:43,982 Um, and the cookies policy was, was present on the website. 307 00:16:43,982 --> 00:16:45,872 So I think it was a scam. 308 00:16:45,882 --> 00:16:47,262 They had gone through the ICO. 309 00:16:47,502 --> 00:16:50,842 We spoke to the ICO, but there was, there was no records of their details 310 00:16:50,842 --> 00:16:52,682 either in our kind of email list. 311 00:16:52,692 --> 00:16:55,262 So, um, yeah, a hundred percent, I think. 312 00:16:55,997 --> 00:16:59,147 That's what some people's jobs are going to be now is just to go out and see if 313 00:16:59,277 --> 00:17:04,907 they can bribe and um, a scam of course, but I guess if they are actually putting 314 00:17:04,907 --> 00:17:08,647 their details in and then finding out that you don't have, like you've said, the 315 00:17:08,647 --> 00:17:13,377 cookie policy or the terms and conditions, then yeah, they will take it to, to 316 00:17:13,377 --> 00:17:16,057 the ICO in the UK, in the UK's case. 317 00:17:16,257 --> 00:17:17,867 Um, yeah, yeah. 318 00:17:17,967 --> 00:17:20,347 Very difficult to speak to the ICO about it though as well. 319 00:17:20,417 --> 00:17:24,007 Um, and very, I do find it quite difficult to get like an exact. 320 00:17:25,527 --> 00:17:28,947 unless you work with a lawyer, like this is exactly, you know, what 321 00:17:28,947 --> 00:17:30,187 you have to do the do's and don'ts. 322 00:17:30,427 --> 00:17:36,237 This is the exact wording, but again, common sense and following it to, you 323 00:17:36,237 --> 00:17:39,827 know, the, the best that you absolutely can do because so many e commerce 324 00:17:39,827 --> 00:17:41,427 websites still don't have the T's and C's. 325 00:17:41,427 --> 00:17:43,857 They don't have the cookie puller, they don't have the end subscription. 326 00:17:43,857 --> 00:17:43,967 So yeah. 327 00:17:46,167 --> 00:17:51,087 Definitely want to be mindful of definitely so do go check those out. 328 00:17:51,137 --> 00:17:53,377 And my advice is go contact a good lawyer. 329 00:17:53,437 --> 00:17:55,727 They're worth the investment when you get those things right. 330 00:17:55,917 --> 00:17:58,377 Um, it's just, it's all a bit dull and boring, isn't it? 331 00:17:58,767 --> 00:18:01,177 Um, and, but it is, it is worth doing. 332 00:18:01,217 --> 00:18:01,717 Right. 333 00:18:02,187 --> 00:18:06,417 So let's go back to, um, what you said earlier, Laura, before we get 334 00:18:06,437 --> 00:18:09,567 sucked into GDPR, which I don't want to get sucked into, if I'm 335 00:18:09,567 --> 00:18:12,917 honest, um, growing your list. 336 00:18:13,317 --> 00:18:17,287 How do you what are some of the effective ways you've seen e commerce 337 00:18:17,287 --> 00:18:18,947 companies grow their email list? 338 00:18:20,597 --> 00:18:28,187 Yeah, so I So what I say to everybody I'd 100% recommend having a pop up on 339 00:18:28,187 --> 00:18:33,577 your website So that any form of traffic heading to your website has a really clear 340 00:18:33,587 --> 00:18:39,637 and easy way to subscribe to your email list so obviously often this is this is 341 00:18:39,767 --> 00:18:44,762 you know done with it an incentive so A lot of stores now sort of 10 15% we 342 00:18:44,762 --> 00:18:51,912 still find that works really well Um, but we've also we had a client who um has a 343 00:18:51,912 --> 00:18:57,372 pop up where you can complete a skin quiz test, which is really, really effective. 344 00:18:57,412 --> 00:19:00,492 Um, so yeah, finding sort of gamification. 345 00:19:00,502 --> 00:19:02,292 So it doesn't always have to be a discount. 346 00:19:02,312 --> 00:19:05,062 It can be, but it does have to be a clear reason for somebody 347 00:19:05,062 --> 00:19:06,352 put to put their details in. 348 00:19:06,872 --> 00:19:11,957 Um, and then making sure that You know, you have the traffic going to your website 349 00:19:12,067 --> 00:19:15,247 because it's all in good having that pop up there without any traffic Nobody's 350 00:19:15,247 --> 00:19:19,287 gonna come and enter their details into your list Um, also we find works 351 00:19:19,297 --> 00:19:21,307 pretty well is running competitions. 352 00:19:21,317 --> 00:19:27,387 So having a landing page uh that's sort of dedicated to Um a competition where you 353 00:19:27,387 --> 00:19:31,887 run traffic to that page and collaborating with other brands that are similar 354 00:19:32,442 --> 00:19:36,982 Um, also, uh, other sort of content creators and influencers to promote that. 355 00:19:37,022 --> 00:19:40,362 You do have to be careful with a, with a competition that you don't 356 00:19:40,362 --> 00:19:42,452 get a load of dud leads through. 357 00:19:42,452 --> 00:19:46,932 So I'd always that paid traffic can work as long as you're, you know, 358 00:19:46,932 --> 00:19:49,522 you're, you're targeting, you've got the right offer and you're 359 00:19:49,532 --> 00:19:51,242 targeting the right sort of people. 360 00:19:51,302 --> 00:19:52,022 But even then. 361 00:19:52,497 --> 00:19:54,887 Um, you just want to make sure that you keep an eye on that, but if you 362 00:19:54,887 --> 00:19:58,907 work with other brands and influencers, and it's kind of a collaborative 363 00:19:58,907 --> 00:20:02,057 effort, then that does drive really, really good, um, quality signups. 364 00:20:02,497 --> 00:20:07,957 Um, and something that we've been doing more recently is, um, I 365 00:20:07,967 --> 00:20:11,857 guess since iOS really, and looking for different strategies to, to. 366 00:20:12,222 --> 00:20:15,422 Build email lists and obviously drive revenue is to, we use a 367 00:20:15,422 --> 00:20:17,122 lot of Facebook formats now. 368 00:20:17,372 --> 00:20:20,162 So we drive paid ads through Facebook formats. 369 00:20:20,562 --> 00:20:24,972 Something that I used to absolutely hate when we ran lead generation, um, 370 00:20:25,512 --> 00:20:30,832 campaigns for clients who were service based businesses, because they always 371 00:20:30,832 --> 00:20:34,562 used to be a bit iffy with, with whether they were good quality leads. 372 00:20:34,562 --> 00:20:36,072 But in the e commerce world, we're finding that. 373 00:20:37,107 --> 00:20:41,307 They are really good quality and, um, it really is building, you can build 374 00:20:41,307 --> 00:20:46,327 your, your email list, your welcome list for, for really cheap, um, and driving a 375 00:20:46,327 --> 00:20:48,037 really good return against those lists. 376 00:20:48,037 --> 00:20:51,957 So it's something we run alongside a full, um, paid strategy, 377 00:20:51,997 --> 00:20:53,347 uh, for eCommerce funnel. 378 00:20:53,727 --> 00:20:56,597 But the, the list build is something that we, we're finding works really well. 379 00:20:56,597 --> 00:21:00,287 And then obviously you can integrate that through Zapier into your Klaviyo account. 380 00:21:00,777 --> 00:21:03,127 Um, and just making sure that you've got a really good. 381 00:21:03,757 --> 00:21:09,337 Welcome flow that can um, you know, turn those leads into into 382 00:21:09,337 --> 00:21:12,377 actual paying customers So good. 383 00:21:12,417 --> 00:21:17,297 I mean that sounds like a really it's a nice little hack Uh is the word we like 384 00:21:17,297 --> 00:21:18,367 to use isn't it a little hack there? 385 00:21:19,657 --> 00:21:22,087 Just have you got an example of? 386 00:21:22,547 --> 00:21:27,077 Of that Facebook formats, welcome sequence working, what sort of things 387 00:21:27,077 --> 00:21:28,197 would I need to think about then? 388 00:21:29,607 --> 00:21:32,817 Yeah, so one of the best, so you definitely, you have to have some 389 00:21:32,817 --> 00:21:36,187 sort of incentive, as I said, but one thing that I think works the absolute 390 00:21:36,187 --> 00:21:41,487 best, so with a fashion, um, a fashion brand that we work with, We, when 391 00:21:41,487 --> 00:21:44,377 they've got a big, say, spring, summer or autumn, winter drop, because they 392 00:21:44,377 --> 00:21:48,637 have two, two fashion drops within the year, we start to build the suspense 393 00:21:48,777 --> 00:21:50,377 a couple of months before that drop. 394 00:21:51,097 --> 00:21:55,967 So we run the ads, we build the pop up, um, it's, you know, 10%, 395 00:21:55,997 --> 00:21:59,257 be the first to know because these, um, collections do sell out, so we 396 00:21:59,257 --> 00:22:00,857 generally have a sense of urgency. 397 00:22:01,247 --> 00:22:05,327 Um, so be the first to know when the collection drops, enter, enter your 398 00:22:05,327 --> 00:22:07,037 details, all that sort of stuff. 399 00:22:07,487 --> 00:22:11,577 Um, they put their details into the, into the form, and then we... 400 00:22:11,897 --> 00:22:12,827 Build the welcome flow. 401 00:22:13,237 --> 00:22:16,697 And then once we actually have that drop, that's when we send that email 402 00:22:16,887 --> 00:22:20,807 out to the list and we, we just see such a huge spike in revenue. 403 00:22:20,807 --> 00:22:23,317 So that's when I find it works really well. 404 00:22:23,357 --> 00:22:28,597 If you've got something more exciting than just a discount, either, as 405 00:22:28,597 --> 00:22:31,627 I've said, it's a new collection, or maybe you've got a new product or 406 00:22:31,727 --> 00:22:37,357 something's back in stock, um, that yeah, works very well, very well. 407 00:22:37,657 --> 00:22:41,847 But equally, even just having a discount running, you know, all of the time. 408 00:22:41,857 --> 00:22:45,237 And it's got to be with everything in e commerce, which is so annoying, isn't it? 409 00:22:45,237 --> 00:22:47,387 But you've got to test and see that it's right for you. 410 00:22:47,387 --> 00:22:52,097 I think for us, it works really, really well for some, some of our clients and 411 00:22:52,097 --> 00:22:55,087 some, it does work well, but not as well. 412 00:22:55,117 --> 00:22:57,867 So we don't put as much budget towards it, for example. 413 00:22:58,842 --> 00:22:59,652 Yeah, no, that's fair. 414 00:22:59,652 --> 00:23:04,442 And like you say, you've got to test, but I can see why that would work well for the 415 00:23:04,442 --> 00:23:08,912 fashion brand who are doing two drops a year and you, um, you can use it very much 416 00:23:08,912 --> 00:23:10,732 as a sort of a list building technique. 417 00:23:13,027 --> 00:23:14,607 Pretty much qualified leads, aren't they? 418 00:23:14,607 --> 00:23:18,577 And so then you, you can, um, you can market to them accordingly. 419 00:23:19,017 --> 00:23:20,117 Um, I like that. 420 00:23:20,117 --> 00:23:20,897 I like that little strategy. 421 00:23:20,897 --> 00:23:22,467 Have you got any more little hacks like that? 422 00:23:23,767 --> 00:23:26,587 Oh, um, let me see. 423 00:23:27,027 --> 00:23:30,597 Well, I think just, just to add on to that, sorry, that works really well, 424 00:23:30,627 --> 00:23:35,747 that strategy for Q4 period too, because obviously when, um, When traffic's 425 00:23:35,747 --> 00:23:39,877 cheaper in Q3, uh, that's when you can start to build your email list 426 00:23:39,877 --> 00:23:45,112 and then retarget in Q4 when, um, you know, when it's a lot more expensive 427 00:23:45,192 --> 00:23:47,122 to advertise on different platforms. 428 00:23:47,132 --> 00:23:50,152 So that's where we sort of drew the idea from really. 429 00:23:50,152 --> 00:23:52,452 It's something that we've always, always done in Q4. 430 00:23:52,462 --> 00:23:56,942 So yeah, I'd highly recommend that, especially with, with Q3 on the horizon, 431 00:23:57,102 --> 00:23:59,592 get those, get, get that in place. 432 00:23:59,612 --> 00:24:00,352 Definitely. 433 00:24:00,942 --> 00:24:02,702 It's a good Black Friday strategy then, isn't it? 434 00:24:02,992 --> 00:24:08,112 In sort of Q, in terms of building your, your, um, Your email list. 435 00:24:08,112 --> 00:24:11,622 And I suppose now's the time to test what actually works well for building the list. 436 00:24:11,922 --> 00:24:14,392 So if you, hopefully you've got some idea of what you're going to be doing 437 00:24:14,392 --> 00:24:17,722 in Black Friday because it's not that long away now at the time of recording. 438 00:24:18,212 --> 00:24:21,772 Um, it'll come upon us very, very quickly. 439 00:24:21,772 --> 00:24:22,432 I have no doubt. 440 00:24:22,432 --> 00:24:26,812 But, um, with that idea in mind, I suppose you could test like three or 441 00:24:26,812 --> 00:24:30,572 four things which are going to work, uh, which could potentially work, see 442 00:24:30,572 --> 00:24:33,392 which works the most and then push that in Q3 to build your email list. 443 00:24:33,392 --> 00:24:36,182 So when it comes to Black Friday, Q4, that sort of stuff you're 444 00:24:36,182 --> 00:24:37,202 going to do around Christmas. 445 00:24:37,867 --> 00:24:44,037 Um, you've, you've got a, you know, a good sort of, what sort of, um, I, I 446 00:24:44,047 --> 00:24:48,477 appreciate as I, as I'm forming this question in my head, pre answering it as I 447 00:24:48,477 --> 00:24:56,027 normally do, Laura, what sort of customer, what sort of Um, costs are associated 448 00:24:56,027 --> 00:24:58,787 to generate a lead using this method. 449 00:24:58,787 --> 00:25:00,507 I appreciate that's a bit how long is a piece of string. 450 00:25:00,857 --> 00:25:03,307 Um, but what's the sort of a budget to have there? 451 00:25:05,707 --> 00:25:10,107 Um, so the budget or what sort of cost per lead do you, do you normally achieve? 452 00:25:10,107 --> 00:25:12,967 Yeah, what sort of, what sort of cost per lead would you, would you 453 00:25:12,967 --> 00:25:14,387 normally have in that strategy? 454 00:25:15,647 --> 00:25:19,967 Uh, we, I mean, like you say, it really, really does. 455 00:25:20,527 --> 00:25:23,667 depend on the brand, on the offer. 456 00:25:24,207 --> 00:25:30,827 We can see lead costs as cheap as 10, 20p, but it can be, you know, for some 457 00:25:30,827 --> 00:25:32,837 brands it can be two pound, three pound. 458 00:25:33,107 --> 00:25:36,417 Um, but that, you know, if they've got higher average order values 459 00:25:36,417 --> 00:25:40,157 and not such a great discount, that still, still really works for them. 460 00:25:40,717 --> 00:25:46,957 Um, and I like to run maybe We're testing out maybe sort of five, 10% 461 00:25:46,957 --> 00:25:50,067 of the budget towards that list build. 462 00:25:50,297 --> 00:25:54,587 And then, like I say, some, some of our clients, we see a, a three, 463 00:25:54,587 --> 00:26:01,547 four times return on ad spend within Facebook ads manager against that form. 464 00:26:01,617 --> 00:26:05,617 So we can see that it, you know, it directly drives that return on ad spend. 465 00:26:06,017 --> 00:26:09,797 And that's obviously just within the seven day attribution windows that doesn't 466 00:26:10,087 --> 00:26:12,777 count, you know, kind of beyond that. 467 00:26:13,277 --> 00:26:18,867 Um, So yeah, that's, but like I say, it really does have to, you 468 00:26:18,867 --> 00:26:24,077 do have to have a really enticing welcome flow, um, on the back end. 469 00:26:24,097 --> 00:26:24,937 Otherwise it's. 470 00:26:27,032 --> 00:26:29,072 Yeah, I, I, I, I get that. 471 00:26:29,322 --> 00:26:32,742 I just want to, before we talk maybe about that, um, I'm getting into the weeds 472 00:26:32,742 --> 00:26:34,102 here a little bit on, I appreciate that. 473 00:26:34,102 --> 00:26:41,882 But, um, I like how you mentioned that this has a higher ROAS because you 474 00:26:41,882 --> 00:26:45,812 can, I assume Facebook can monitor how many people click the ad and 475 00:26:45,812 --> 00:26:47,042 how many people filled out the form. 476 00:26:47,042 --> 00:26:49,672 So attribution becomes a lot more straightforward. 477 00:26:50,312 --> 00:26:54,382 Um, whereas attribution with Facebook ads themselves, I was at, um. 478 00:26:54,852 --> 00:26:58,062 I was at a conference, I've mentioned this before, but I was at a, um, I was 479 00:26:58,062 --> 00:27:02,592 at a conference where the, uh, Neil Hoyne, I think his name is from Google, 480 00:27:02,962 --> 00:27:07,742 was talking about data and he said that he gave an example of a lady who had 481 00:27:07,802 --> 00:27:13,267 over 260 separate interactions with the company before buying a pair of shoes. 482 00:27:14,017 --> 00:27:15,077 260. 483 00:27:15,087 --> 00:27:17,817 So some of those were on websites, some were social media, some 484 00:27:17,817 --> 00:27:19,137 were email, some were Google. 485 00:27:19,137 --> 00:27:21,997 So, but 200, and he's like, how do I attribute that? 486 00:27:22,017 --> 00:27:26,737 How do I, who, at what point, and attribution becomes more and more complex. 487 00:27:27,097 --> 00:27:30,157 Whereas what you're talking about here, just for a simple list building strategy, 488 00:27:30,567 --> 00:27:33,297 actually attribution becomes pretty straightforward, I would have thought. 489 00:27:34,807 --> 00:27:35,417 Yeah. 490 00:27:35,517 --> 00:27:35,877 Yeah. 491 00:27:36,597 --> 00:27:41,147 Attribution is normally the bane of my life, but in this instance, yeah, exactly. 492 00:27:41,447 --> 00:27:42,227 Absolutely. 493 00:27:42,317 --> 00:27:43,617 Um, because we can. 494 00:27:44,167 --> 00:27:47,517 We can measure that return, as I say, directly against those. 495 00:27:48,867 --> 00:27:51,697 Those email, um, the email opt in. 496 00:27:51,697 --> 00:27:54,187 So we've got a cost per lead, but we've always also got the 497 00:27:54,657 --> 00:27:57,407 amount of purchases and the cost per purchase alongside of them. 498 00:27:57,417 --> 00:28:01,477 So that makes it really, really easy to sort of attribute. 499 00:28:01,477 --> 00:28:05,087 But like I say, it's, it's the kind of past that attribution window that you 500 00:28:05,087 --> 00:28:09,557 can't, so for some, it's great when there is a direct return on ad spend against 501 00:28:09,557 --> 00:28:13,527 it, but it's then figuring out the attribution when there isn't to make sure, 502 00:28:13,547 --> 00:28:17,837 you know, is that still doing a really good job of, um, converting the, the. 503 00:28:18,417 --> 00:28:21,757 The customer sort of down the track with the welcome flow when it's not sort 504 00:28:21,757 --> 00:28:26,017 of instantaneous um But yeah, it's it. 505 00:28:26,227 --> 00:28:30,657 Yeah, it definitely makes It really easy when there is a return you can 506 00:28:30,657 --> 00:28:33,867 justify it to can justify to my clients that we're putting more and more money 507 00:28:33,867 --> 00:28:36,807 into that This is how it's working. 508 00:28:36,807 --> 00:28:37,577 Yeah, totally. 509 00:28:38,077 --> 00:28:42,287 So let's talk about the emails then Um, you talked about optimization 510 00:28:42,297 --> 00:28:45,647 you talked about having basic flows You just mentioned about making 511 00:28:45,647 --> 00:28:50,567 sure your welcome sequence is is hot Terrible designs crap subject lines. 512 00:28:50,567 --> 00:28:51,947 No thought given to content. 513 00:28:52,387 --> 00:28:56,687 Um, and then send in the same email to just Literally everybody on your list. 514 00:28:56,697 --> 00:29:02,437 So out of those, which is the one which is your biggest pet peeve? 515 00:29:04,137 --> 00:29:09,977 Oh, probably I'd probably say not. 516 00:29:10,487 --> 00:29:12,647 I'd say sloppy welcome flow. 517 00:29:13,127 --> 00:29:13,457 Sorry. 518 00:29:13,467 --> 00:29:15,887 Sloppy flows of the four. 519 00:29:16,547 --> 00:29:20,327 We'll say, I'll say, yeah, four of the most important email flows. 520 00:29:20,597 --> 00:29:24,437 The sloppy flows where it's might be driving 1 to 2% revenue. 521 00:29:25,312 --> 00:29:27,852 That's probably my biggest pet peeve because that's where I see the biggest 522 00:29:27,852 --> 00:29:31,172 opportunity Okay, so sloppy flows. 523 00:29:31,182 --> 00:29:31,762 I like this. 524 00:29:31,802 --> 00:29:35,012 This is we should buy the domain name sloppy flows. 525 00:29:35,282 --> 00:29:40,252 com um So what uh, you mentioned the four flows. 526 00:29:40,262 --> 00:29:43,222 So what are those see the welcome flow? 527 00:29:44,217 --> 00:29:47,847 The Abandoned Cart Flow, the Browser Abandonment Flow, and the Winback Flow. 528 00:29:50,257 --> 00:29:51,917 Uh, and Winback. 529 00:29:52,597 --> 00:29:54,417 Okay, I'm just making some notes here. 530 00:29:56,097 --> 00:29:59,947 So let's start with the Welcome Flow. 531 00:29:59,947 --> 00:30:02,137 What makes a Sloppy Welcome Flow? 532 00:30:03,537 --> 00:30:11,737 Sloppy Welcome Flow is, I guess, either having, um, So ones that we've sort of, 533 00:30:12,077 --> 00:30:15,987 I'll just go off, ones that we've audited recently would have, you know, sort of 534 00:30:15,987 --> 00:30:21,687 10, 12, 13 emails in the flow where none of them are really driving any sales. 535 00:30:23,172 --> 00:30:24,042 Yeah, driving any revenue. 536 00:30:24,732 --> 00:30:28,622 Um, also ones that it's just, well, it's not as bad having one email in the 537 00:30:28,622 --> 00:30:33,302 flow, but just not, I suppose, not the optimum amount of flows for, uh, sorry, 538 00:30:33,302 --> 00:30:35,552 emails in that flow for their business. 539 00:30:36,162 --> 00:30:40,442 Uh, I'd also say just really poor designs. 540 00:30:40,682 --> 00:30:41,632 that aren't on brand. 541 00:30:41,642 --> 00:30:45,282 So many times we just see, yeah, like sort of just templates taken 542 00:30:45,292 --> 00:30:50,562 from Klaviyo and they're not really optimized or, uh, continuing in 543 00:30:50,562 --> 00:30:52,102 continuation with their brand. 544 00:30:52,642 --> 00:30:58,612 Um, and also just a lack of, um, sort of a lack of story and a 545 00:30:58,612 --> 00:30:59,962 lack of interest behind the flow. 546 00:31:00,652 --> 00:31:03,402 Just, you know, here's a discount, buy, buy it. 547 00:31:03,922 --> 00:31:05,492 And it's just like, no, that's not great. 548 00:31:05,612 --> 00:31:09,742 Someone's put their details in, uh, sorry, someone's taken an interest within, 549 00:31:09,862 --> 00:31:13,132 from their Facebook ads, Top of Funnel, they've come through to the Welcome Flow, 550 00:31:13,162 --> 00:31:17,052 and it's just a, here's a discount, but no more reason why that they would buy. 551 00:31:17,052 --> 00:31:19,362 And that's what people, you know, they want to know, they want to, they 552 00:31:19,362 --> 00:31:25,262 want to see a beautiful dress or a beautiful product on a Facebook ad, uh, 553 00:31:25,282 --> 00:31:28,002 maybe an influencer wearing it, then they want to come onto your website. 554 00:31:28,262 --> 00:31:32,592 Get 10% off, for example, put their details in, then come to the flow where 555 00:31:32,592 --> 00:31:36,862 they see a bit more about the brand is, you know, where, where's it made, like, 556 00:31:36,872 --> 00:31:41,372 is it made ethically, you know, it's, it's made in a factory in a third world 557 00:31:41,372 --> 00:31:46,912 country where this brand really supports, um, you know, those workers a bit more 558 00:31:46,912 --> 00:31:48,992 about the founders and about their story. 559 00:31:48,992 --> 00:31:52,242 And, you know, that, I feel like that's where the, where you get the chance to. 560 00:31:52,757 --> 00:31:54,667 really make a prospect fall in love with your brand. 561 00:31:55,517 --> 00:31:59,767 And so, yeah, I guess Sloppy Flows is part of just the, yeah, 562 00:31:59,767 --> 00:32:01,987 here's a product, here's 10% off. 563 00:32:02,317 --> 00:32:05,527 It's no more enticing than the initial Facebook ad that they saw was. 564 00:32:06,157 --> 00:32:07,227 So, yeah. 565 00:32:08,347 --> 00:32:11,347 Yeah, it has to, like you say, it has to be a bit more creative, doesn't it? 566 00:32:11,597 --> 00:32:15,037 And I like this phrase, it, it has to tell the story. 567 00:32:15,247 --> 00:32:17,947 Um, and it has to tell the story well. 568 00:32:18,707 --> 00:32:24,877 Uh, uh, this, if I, if I had a pet peeve, Laura, it would be, um, companies that 569 00:32:24,887 --> 00:32:27,487 tell their story in a really bad way. 570 00:32:28,117 --> 00:32:31,997 Um, and I pick on accountants for this because, um, I used to be one. 571 00:32:32,217 --> 00:32:36,847 And so I feel like I can, um, as I used to be when I did my degree in accounting, 572 00:32:36,847 --> 00:32:38,077 that's probably as close as I got. 573 00:32:38,087 --> 00:32:39,927 And then I realized I'm never going to be an accountant. 574 00:32:40,577 --> 00:32:43,667 Um, but the reason I pick on accountants is they were, I 575 00:32:43,937 --> 00:32:45,557 remember doing this exercise once. 576 00:32:46,632 --> 00:32:49,952 With a, with a group and we had, we just Googled whatever 577 00:32:49,952 --> 00:32:51,342 the local accountancy firm was. 578 00:32:51,342 --> 00:32:54,452 The first website that came up in Google, we went straight to its website 579 00:32:54,492 --> 00:32:56,052 to highlight this particular point. 580 00:32:56,792 --> 00:33:02,112 And it, it, it was, it was a stereotype on my part, but it was played to a 581 00:33:02,112 --> 00:33:03,422 tee, I have to be honest with you. 582 00:33:03,912 --> 00:33:08,382 This accountant's website came up and in the top left corner was a big logo. 583 00:33:09,172 --> 00:33:11,362 Um, and then it said, you know, in business for 30 584 00:33:11,362 --> 00:33:12,272 years or something like that. 585 00:33:12,512 --> 00:33:15,252 And then the hero image on the website was. 586 00:33:15,517 --> 00:33:18,997 A picture of their building and the specific part of their building they 587 00:33:18,997 --> 00:33:23,267 took a picture of was a picture of the logo on the side of the building. 588 00:33:23,497 --> 00:33:25,857 And then it was like one of these carousel images. 589 00:33:26,267 --> 00:33:30,817 Uh, and the next image was a picture of their business card specifically focused 590 00:33:30,817 --> 00:33:32,707 on the logo on their business card. 591 00:33:32,977 --> 00:33:36,787 And it was just, I was crying. 592 00:33:37,127 --> 00:33:40,897 And so I'm like, yeah, this, I said to the guys in the room who 593 00:33:40,897 --> 00:33:44,537 weren't e commerce guys, but they were, um, a lot of CEOs and leaders. 594 00:33:44,537 --> 00:33:47,397 And I said, let me tell you straight, no one cares about your logo. 595 00:33:47,742 --> 00:33:48,572 more than you do. 596 00:33:48,912 --> 00:33:52,902 They just don't, um, but what they do care about is how you can help them. 597 00:33:52,932 --> 00:33:57,202 So tell your story in a way that actually is attractive to them and just put 598 00:33:57,202 --> 00:33:58,452 in pictures of your logo everywhere. 599 00:33:58,712 --> 00:34:00,482 That's not gonna work. 600 00:34:02,112 --> 00:34:02,142 No. 601 00:34:02,152 --> 00:34:05,002 Oh yeah, we had a client, um, similar to that who just... 602 00:34:05,677 --> 00:34:10,347 cared about how big their showroom was and in every single ad and in every single 603 00:34:10,347 --> 00:34:15,747 email they just wanted to say we've got an oh god it's 35, 000 square foot showroom. 604 00:34:15,857 --> 00:34:17,927 I was like, no one cares about how big your showroom is. 605 00:34:19,987 --> 00:34:22,887 It's funny, yeah, that's always a challenge, they're just trying to... 606 00:34:23,322 --> 00:34:27,592 Well, we, we spend a lot of time trying to eke out the story from the founders. 607 00:34:27,592 --> 00:34:30,422 And cause I guess a lot of the time for the founders, it's hard 608 00:34:30,432 --> 00:34:32,622 because it's all in their head and it's not even on their website. 609 00:34:32,922 --> 00:34:34,352 It's really, really difficult. 610 00:34:34,392 --> 00:34:38,892 And so we spend a lot of time, you know, listening to their story, asking 611 00:34:38,892 --> 00:34:42,762 questions, trying to dig deeper to be like, ah, there's the interesting part of 612 00:34:42,852 --> 00:34:45,592 your story that you think we should have. 613 00:34:46,272 --> 00:34:47,052 So, yeah. 614 00:34:47,872 --> 00:34:51,852 That's where I think actually I, not to, uh, you know, deliberately sell your 615 00:34:51,852 --> 00:34:56,852 company, but that's where an agency I think really helps because, um, I think 616 00:34:56,862 --> 00:34:59,872 for a lot of people, a lot of founders, it's very hard to know how to tell 617 00:34:59,872 --> 00:35:04,572 their story attractively because it all isn't, they live it 24/7, you know, 618 00:35:04,572 --> 00:35:06,032 and there's a lot of assumed knowledge. 619 00:35:06,032 --> 00:35:07,922 That's the other thing that I've noticed. 620 00:35:07,922 --> 00:35:10,602 A lot of people assume that everybody knows everything and they know nothing. 621 00:35:10,602 --> 00:35:14,302 And it's just, um, so someone from the outside who knows how to ask 622 00:35:14,302 --> 00:35:17,742 questions can draw that out of them, I think is a really powerful thing. 623 00:35:18,282 --> 00:35:22,747 Um, and a real benefit to using a good agency because they will draw that out of 624 00:35:22,747 --> 00:35:25,067 you and help you set up these sequences. 625 00:35:26,067 --> 00:35:30,077 So the abandoned co op flow, okay, that's all fairly straightforward stuff. 626 00:35:30,097 --> 00:35:33,237 The browser abandonment flow, I'm kind of curious what you do 627 00:35:33,237 --> 00:35:35,357 there that makes it not sloppy. 628 00:35:36,922 --> 00:35:37,162 Yeah. 629 00:35:37,162 --> 00:35:42,292 So, um, so having, making sure that you've got a, uh, some sort of, again, 630 00:35:42,302 --> 00:35:46,232 incentive, or if there, you know, if there is a discount, if someone has abandoned 631 00:35:46,232 --> 00:35:50,252 to get them to, to come back and purchase and just making sure that that's really, 632 00:35:50,332 --> 00:35:52,552 um, you know, obvious in the email. 633 00:35:53,212 --> 00:35:56,632 So many times, again, we see, um, discounts. 634 00:35:57,327 --> 00:36:01,337 without the discount code or that they put it at the very bottom of an email. 635 00:36:01,367 --> 00:36:07,047 So the abandoned cart and the same with the, um, the abandoned checkout is loads 636 00:36:07,047 --> 00:36:08,917 and loads and loads of texts and images. 637 00:36:08,917 --> 00:36:11,767 And then there's a discount and a call to action all the way at the bottom. 638 00:36:12,167 --> 00:36:14,627 Um, so, you know, making sure that that's really clear. 639 00:36:15,037 --> 00:36:20,167 Um, Using urgency, things like using reviews and testimonials to again, make 640 00:36:20,167 --> 00:36:24,877 it really enticing for somebody to, to see why they should, why they should purchase. 641 00:36:24,877 --> 00:36:29,057 They obviously had a bit of an interest in the first place, so it's making sure that 642 00:36:29,057 --> 00:36:30,987 you can then turn them into a customer. 643 00:36:31,397 --> 00:36:35,027 Um, and then also giving them a, like a real sense of urgency 644 00:36:35,027 --> 00:36:36,717 as, as one of the final emails. 645 00:36:36,727 --> 00:36:41,297 So, you know, giving them a real last chance, not a fake last chance to 646 00:36:41,297 --> 00:36:45,602 put that, you know, for the discount, but a real last chance, um, That's 647 00:36:45,602 --> 00:36:48,902 some of the things that work really well, um, within the abandoned. 648 00:36:49,467 --> 00:36:51,287 browser abandonment checkout system. 649 00:36:52,587 --> 00:36:54,167 Very good, very good. 650 00:36:54,167 --> 00:36:56,567 And what sort of things do you think about when it comes to winbacks? 651 00:36:57,707 --> 00:37:02,127 So, winback, so one of the things with a winback, I think, is in the actual 652 00:37:02,157 --> 00:37:06,527 setup, sometimes we see, you know, a year down the track is the winback 653 00:37:06,527 --> 00:37:10,927 flow but it's so long from someone having purchased To, uh, you know, 654 00:37:11,027 --> 00:37:13,077 actually still remembering your brand. 655 00:37:13,077 --> 00:37:16,707 So really, I suppose a good rule of thumb is a, is around about three months if 656 00:37:16,707 --> 00:37:18,637 they haven't purchased something from you. 657 00:37:18,667 --> 00:37:20,617 So, you know, even just having that. 658 00:37:20,637 --> 00:37:25,067 So reminding people that you exist, um, you know, a friendly hello 659 00:37:25,067 --> 00:37:27,847 email can even just be, you know, even that in itself can just. 660 00:37:28,372 --> 00:37:32,072 Make people purchase from you again, again, offering an incentive. 661 00:37:32,082 --> 00:37:34,342 You're not paying because you've got them on your email list. 662 00:37:34,342 --> 00:37:37,242 You're not paying, uh, an acquisition cost. 663 00:37:37,242 --> 00:37:41,272 So you may as well use that within a discount to incentivize them to purchase. 664 00:37:41,932 --> 00:37:44,312 Sometimes what we find works quite well here is asking for 665 00:37:44,312 --> 00:37:45,722 feedback because people do love. 666 00:37:46,157 --> 00:37:48,477 Giving feedback, um, or leaving review. 667 00:37:48,977 --> 00:37:49,317 Yeah. 668 00:37:49,317 --> 00:37:53,277 So, um, asking for that sort of feedback or review there. 669 00:37:53,277 --> 00:37:55,247 Um, and obviously that's, that's been a win win. 670 00:37:55,347 --> 00:37:57,597 Um, and again, a last chance to buy. 671 00:37:57,597 --> 00:38:00,907 Otherwise something that you can use that for sense of urgency is the 672 00:38:00,907 --> 00:38:04,217 last chance to buy, otherwise they will be removed from your email list. 673 00:38:04,597 --> 00:38:06,757 And it's weird because you think, Oh, well, people probably won't care at 674 00:38:06,787 --> 00:38:08,357 that stage, but I have had those before. 675 00:38:08,357 --> 00:38:11,897 And I'm like, no, I don't, I don't want to, I want to, yeah. 676 00:38:11,897 --> 00:38:12,407 So as long as. 677 00:38:13,222 --> 00:38:13,692 Yeah. 678 00:38:14,582 --> 00:38:20,232 So, um, I mean, yeah, so that, that's, um, that's another kind of final good email, 679 00:38:20,472 --> 00:38:25,062 really good email to make sure that they stay subscribed to your list, stay active. 680 00:38:25,142 --> 00:38:29,292 They're not, you know, contributing to, to your spam count and your emails. 681 00:38:29,382 --> 00:38:30,192 Um, yeah. 682 00:38:31,232 --> 00:38:34,932 And it's, it's, it's a good point actually, because if you, if they don't 683 00:38:34,932 --> 00:38:38,662 want to be subscribed to your email list, actually it's good to let them go. 684 00:38:39,242 --> 00:38:41,762 Uh, and keep your list clean for a whole bunch of reasons. 685 00:38:42,322 --> 00:38:47,502 Um, and it's interesting, uh, how you're doing this in a world at the 686 00:38:47,502 --> 00:38:50,922 moment where the cost of money is high because interest rates are high, 687 00:38:50,962 --> 00:38:55,752 which means there's not as much cheap money floating around the system to 688 00:38:55,752 --> 00:38:57,462 just throw at customer acquisition. 689 00:38:57,482 --> 00:39:01,662 People, I think people are becoming more and more aware of both the 690 00:39:01,662 --> 00:39:06,542 need to, um, increase repeat purchases and focus strategy there, 691 00:39:06,542 --> 00:39:09,492 and also the need to reactivate. 692 00:39:09,787 --> 00:39:13,487 Um, customers on that email list and the sort of the win, the win 693 00:39:13,497 --> 00:39:18,467 back email sequence is a good way to, it's part of the, it's, it's 694 00:39:18,467 --> 00:39:20,107 a way that you could do that. 695 00:39:20,257 --> 00:39:25,737 Um, but I think, I think in a world where I guess a good question for you, 696 00:39:25,737 --> 00:39:29,317 actually, in a world where reactivation now is becoming a bigger and bigger deal. 697 00:39:31,242 --> 00:39:34,182 Have you seen some good reactivation campaigns or some good 698 00:39:34,182 --> 00:39:35,712 reactivation hacks that we can think 699 00:39:38,862 --> 00:39:38,902 about? 700 00:39:39,392 --> 00:39:47,392 so I think again sort of in terms of something that works really well is I 701 00:39:47,402 --> 00:39:52,052 think you've got to get them Sort of back excited about the brand again um, and 702 00:39:52,052 --> 00:39:56,032 that can work really we've seen it work really well when we have uh, you know 703 00:39:56,052 --> 00:40:02,312 inform them of Changes or with the company or like a new, say, new collections, 704 00:40:02,762 --> 00:40:08,342 um, something again news or like product drops that are really exciting for them. 705 00:40:08,492 --> 00:40:12,922 Um, that's when I find you've gotta find a, yeah, a, an 706 00:40:12,922 --> 00:40:14,542 excuse and a kind of reason to. 707 00:40:15,317 --> 00:40:18,387 You know, to want to re engage them, maybe retelling them about 708 00:40:18,387 --> 00:40:22,307 the story, um, the story of the brand to get them re bought in. 709 00:40:22,717 --> 00:40:27,817 Um, and also like a, a really great discount can obviously go a long way in 710 00:40:27,817 --> 00:40:30,837 being able to, again, because you're not paying for the, the initial acquisition. 711 00:40:30,847 --> 00:40:34,067 You may as well, you know, kind of throw everything that you can at 712 00:40:34,587 --> 00:40:36,977 getting them to, to sort of reactivate. 713 00:40:37,067 --> 00:40:41,047 So that's some of the things that we found work well. 714 00:40:41,857 --> 00:40:42,517 Yeah, yeah. 715 00:40:42,517 --> 00:40:43,367 No, fantastic. 716 00:40:43,987 --> 00:40:47,807 And if, um, What are some of the things that you've seen work 717 00:40:47,827 --> 00:40:49,787 well, which aren't discounts? 718 00:40:49,797 --> 00:40:53,787 So, um, discounting is a, is a big topic in its own conversation, isn't it? 719 00:40:53,787 --> 00:40:58,037 But, um, I'm kind of curious, what have you seen companies do 720 00:40:58,037 --> 00:41:01,267 well there that aren't discounts, but have been super engaging? 721 00:41:03,107 --> 00:41:03,407 Yeah. 722 00:41:03,417 --> 00:41:08,037 So, um, well, this wasn't necessarily reactivation, but a company. 723 00:41:08,417 --> 00:41:12,097 Oh, you probably know them BAM, BAM socks. 724 00:41:12,247 --> 00:41:14,747 They sell, so they actually sock company. 725 00:41:14,917 --> 00:41:19,047 Yeah, they're one of the things that they did that was incredible. 726 00:41:19,047 --> 00:41:22,377 They do do it reactivation, but they used to, if you subscribed, 727 00:41:22,377 --> 00:41:24,037 you've got a free pair of socks. 728 00:41:24,427 --> 00:41:27,737 Um, so it's obviously not discount, but then it was very, very clever. 729 00:41:27,787 --> 00:41:29,117 And that's got my mum. 730 00:41:29,137 --> 00:41:31,127 That's hooked my mum to be a customer for life. 731 00:41:31,137 --> 00:41:32,767 She spends so much money with them. 732 00:41:33,197 --> 00:41:35,417 Um, because obviously you get the chance to impress. 733 00:41:35,417 --> 00:41:37,147 I know every company can't do this. 734 00:41:37,157 --> 00:41:37,177 Yeah. 735 00:41:39,387 --> 00:41:40,017 It is what it is. 736 00:41:40,037 --> 00:41:44,377 But, um, yeah, cause you, you obviously got to see the product, um, see the 737 00:41:44,377 --> 00:41:48,267 packaging, feel, you know, just really kind of connect with that brand. 738 00:41:48,657 --> 00:41:50,457 Um, so that I thought that was brilliant. 739 00:41:50,457 --> 00:41:53,087 I've seen other companies do, do similar things. 740 00:41:53,497 --> 00:41:56,657 Um, and then I guess things like, um. 741 00:41:59,522 --> 00:42:04,012 Again, skin companies, I've seen them do, as I've said, things like the quiz 742 00:42:04,012 --> 00:42:08,972 or sending a free sample, um, that works really well, uh, which isn't, 743 00:42:09,202 --> 00:42:11,732 you know, directly discount because discounts, yeah, I agree with you, 744 00:42:11,732 --> 00:42:13,852 it's a completely different topic. 745 00:42:13,862 --> 00:42:17,742 Like you can spend hours talking about discounts, um, but sending out 746 00:42:17,742 --> 00:42:19,862 free samples or just free advice. 747 00:42:19,892 --> 00:42:24,282 Um, free, if it's fashion, you could have a, you know, a free 748 00:42:25,452 --> 00:42:27,992 sort of PDF like document guides. 749 00:42:28,342 --> 00:42:28,572 Yeah. 750 00:42:29,027 --> 00:42:34,257 You know the latest fashion trends, um, And some people don't necessarily I do 751 00:42:34,257 --> 00:42:37,687 subscribe to things that i'm as long as i'm really really interested in it 752 00:42:37,687 --> 00:42:41,377 It doesn't have to be a discount but things like that if i'm interested in 753 00:42:41,377 --> 00:42:45,947 the brand and I want the latest trends or I want to know the latest way to wear. 754 00:42:45,987 --> 00:42:50,427 Um, you know layered jewelry, then I will put my details in so you've got a really 755 00:42:50,427 --> 00:42:54,317 really The important thing is really thinking about what the customer would 756 00:42:54,347 --> 00:42:57,207 want from you, what they're interested in. 757 00:42:57,677 --> 00:43:01,447 Um, I guess this counts just the easy, the easy sort of way. 758 00:43:01,447 --> 00:43:05,837 And I guess becoming a little bit more expected, um, now, but 759 00:43:05,837 --> 00:43:07,047 there are definitely ways to do. 760 00:43:07,322 --> 00:43:09,012 You know, to do it without discount. 761 00:43:09,842 --> 00:43:11,862 There are, you can definitely be creative. 762 00:43:11,922 --> 00:43:12,892 It doesn't always have to be. 763 00:43:13,052 --> 00:43:16,132 I remember, um, again, I might've told this example already on the show, 764 00:43:16,132 --> 00:43:20,152 but there was one site I went to that I was looking for a plant, actually 765 00:43:20,152 --> 00:43:21,402 for in here, for in the studio. 766 00:43:21,642 --> 00:43:24,522 Um, and I was, I was looking for plants online and I was like. 767 00:43:25,592 --> 00:43:29,092 Okay, um, I know nothing about houseplants. 768 00:43:29,562 --> 00:43:31,902 So, I'm not necessarily ready to buy now, but I'm ready to 769 00:43:31,902 --> 00:43:33,252 buy at some point in the future. 770 00:43:33,262 --> 00:43:38,032 So, this one website I came across, um, understood this, and so it's 771 00:43:38,032 --> 00:43:40,972 like, well, I'm going to figure out a way to capture your email address 772 00:43:40,992 --> 00:43:44,332 if you're not ready to buy, which I always think is a top strategy, 773 00:43:44,332 --> 00:43:45,752 top way to think about your website. 774 00:43:46,602 --> 00:43:50,542 And, um, they had this email sign up, 10 ways not to kill your houseplants. 775 00:43:50,922 --> 00:43:56,112 Um, I've got it as well, that sequence, I was like, I can't, I still can't remember 776 00:43:56,112 --> 00:43:59,462 the name of the website, but I remember this email sequence coming through 777 00:43:59,932 --> 00:44:01,972 because I was so in, that's me to a T. 778 00:44:01,992 --> 00:44:03,802 I'm like, of course, I'm going to kill this house plant. 779 00:44:03,802 --> 00:44:05,562 I definitely want this email sequence. 780 00:44:05,562 --> 00:44:06,192 And I signed up. 781 00:44:06,662 --> 00:44:08,952 I don't know if you, if you signed up for it as well. 782 00:44:08,962 --> 00:44:12,342 One of the things that I've realized Laura is they've never followed 783 00:44:12,342 --> 00:44:13,012 me up with any other marketing. 784 00:44:14,587 --> 00:44:17,177 Well, that's true because you can't remember the name of it and 785 00:44:17,177 --> 00:44:18,437 I can't remember the name of brand. 786 00:44:18,437 --> 00:44:20,927 It's, it's on the tip of my tongue, but I don't think, yeah, I don't 787 00:44:20,937 --> 00:44:21,987 think I get emails from them. 788 00:44:22,687 --> 00:44:24,797 No, and I thought this was fascinating. 789 00:44:24,797 --> 00:44:27,967 It was a great way to get my email address, but they have definitely not 790 00:44:28,027 --> 00:44:30,627 made the most of having my email address. 791 00:44:32,237 --> 00:44:34,697 Which really surprised me because I thought whoever thought that 792 00:44:34,697 --> 00:44:37,317 up at the start has obviously put some thought into this. 793 00:44:38,387 --> 00:44:38,997 But the follow up... 794 00:44:39,917 --> 00:44:42,397 It just goes to show you, you can be good at one thing, but not 795 00:44:42,397 --> 00:44:43,477 good at everything, apparently. 796 00:44:43,917 --> 00:44:48,797 Uh, so, listen, Laura, I am aware of time, and it's getting away from us, 797 00:44:49,407 --> 00:44:50,737 and I have so many more questions. 798 00:44:50,807 --> 00:44:54,857 Um, but it was just nice, actually, to just dig deep on one or two things, 799 00:44:54,857 --> 00:44:55,897 rather than be a bit more generalised. 800 00:44:55,897 --> 00:44:58,422 And I really appreciate you doing that and sharing your... 801 00:44:58,562 --> 00:45:02,182 your insights and your value and, uh, just loved it. 802 00:45:02,212 --> 00:45:03,082 Love the conversation. 803 00:45:03,082 --> 00:45:04,822 Got lots of notes, which is always a big sign. 804 00:45:04,842 --> 00:45:08,892 But if people listening to the show want to connect with you, if they want to find 805 00:45:08,892 --> 00:45:15,012 out more about pink leopards, um, and, uh, about what you do, have questions for you. 806 00:45:15,487 --> 00:45:15,697 Go. 807 00:45:15,697 --> 00:45:16,687 What's the best way to do that? 808 00:45:17,467 --> 00:45:22,927 Yeah, so our website is www.pink leopard.co uk. 809 00:45:23,017 --> 00:45:28,277 Um, my, uh, Instagram is Pink leopard uk where we do provide 810 00:45:28,277 --> 00:45:30,167 lots of kind of information hacks. 811 00:45:30,437 --> 00:45:33,587 Uh, so feel free to follow us there or you can contact me directly. 812 00:45:33,647 --> 00:45:36,647 Um, I'll be Laura Hanlon on LinkedIn and I'm happy to answer 813 00:45:36,647 --> 00:45:38,117 any questions that you may have. 814 00:45:38,862 --> 00:45:39,472 Fantastic. 815 00:45:39,512 --> 00:45:45,552 We will of course link to all of those, the social media, the website and Laura's 816 00:45:45,552 --> 00:45:48,652 LinkedIn on the show notes as well. 817 00:45:48,662 --> 00:45:51,732 So, um, yeah, if you've got those coming to your inbox, they'll all be in there. 818 00:45:51,732 --> 00:45:52,582 And do reach out to Laura. 819 00:45:52,612 --> 00:45:53,262 Do say hello. 820 00:45:53,442 --> 00:45:55,822 Do connect with them over at Pink Leopard. 821 00:45:56,392 --> 00:45:57,252 even for nothing else. 822 00:45:57,252 --> 00:45:59,302 They've got a really cool company name and I think it's awesome. 823 00:45:59,932 --> 00:46:04,452 Uh, so listen, Laura, genuinely, thank you for coming on the show. 824 00:46:04,492 --> 00:46:05,652 Really, really appreciate it. 825 00:46:05,652 --> 00:46:07,842 It was a wonderful, wonderful conversation. 826 00:46:08,302 --> 00:46:10,872 Um, and a massive thanks for joining me today. 827 00:46:11,712 --> 00:46:12,892 Thank you so much for having me. 828 00:46:12,892 --> 00:46:13,562 I really enjoyed it too. 829 00:46:15,042 --> 00:46:16,842 Well, that's, that's, that's important. 830 00:46:17,332 --> 00:46:22,342 Uh, so, uh, uh, big shout out to today's show sponsor, the e commerce cohort. 831 00:46:22,362 --> 00:46:26,422 Remember to check out their free training at ecommercecycles. 832 00:46:26,462 --> 00:46:26,732 com. 833 00:46:26,992 --> 00:46:30,032 Also, be sure to follow the e commerce podcast, wherever you 834 00:46:30,032 --> 00:46:32,662 get your podcast from, because we've got more great conversations 835 00:46:32,712 --> 00:46:34,052 like this one with Laura today. 836 00:46:34,352 --> 00:46:38,022 And I don't want you to miss any of them at all. 837 00:46:38,212 --> 00:46:38,582 No. 838 00:46:39,002 --> 00:46:41,242 And in case no one has told you yet. 839 00:46:41,792 --> 00:46:44,862 Today, you, dear listener, are awesome. 840 00:46:44,912 --> 00:46:45,442 Yes, you are. 841 00:46:45,462 --> 00:46:46,502 Created awesome. 842 00:46:46,692 --> 00:46:48,942 It's just a burden you have to bear. 843 00:46:49,162 --> 00:46:50,042 Laura has to bear it. 844 00:46:50,372 --> 00:46:51,172 I have to bear it. 845 00:46:51,722 --> 00:46:52,672 You've got to bear it as well. 846 00:46:53,112 --> 00:46:55,822 Now, the e commerce podcast is produced by Aurion Media. 847 00:46:55,822 --> 00:46:59,682 You can find our entire archive of episodes on your favorite podcast 848 00:46:59,702 --> 00:47:02,442 and the team that makes this show possible is Sadaf Beynon, 849 00:47:02,442 --> 00:47:05,022 Estella Robin and Tanya Hutzilak. 850 00:47:05,352 --> 00:47:07,732 Our theme song was written by Josh Edmundson. 851 00:47:07,752 --> 00:47:12,452 And as I mentioned, if you would like to read the transcript or show notes, head 852 00:47:12,452 --> 00:47:13,882 over to the website, ecommercepodcast. 853 00:47:15,642 --> 00:47:15,942 net. 854 00:47:15,952 --> 00:47:18,712 That's ecommercepodcast. 855 00:47:19,102 --> 00:47:19,572 net. 856 00:47:19,622 --> 00:47:20,862 That's it from me. 857 00:47:21,262 --> 00:47:22,182 That's it from Laura. 858 00:47:22,182 --> 00:47:23,912 Thank you so much for joining us. 859 00:47:24,152 --> 00:47:26,632 Have a fantastic week wherever you are in the world. 860 00:47:26,912 --> 00:47:27,862 I'll see you next time. 861 00:47:28,192 --> 00:47:28,782 Bye for now.