1
00:00:01,000 --> 00:00:05,710
I was in, in London and there was a guy
that was previously kind of a super fan

2
00:00:05,710 --> 00:00:10,930
He said, you know, I used to listen to your
pod religiously all the time, but then you
guys just talk about the same shit every week.

3
00:00:10,930 --> 00:00:12,940
So I stopped listening to it

4
00:00:13,295 --> 00:00:13,585
nice?

5
00:00:13,700 --> 00:00:13,940
and

6
00:00:13,996 --> 00:00:15,148
It's good to get feedback.

7
00:00:15,376 --> 00:00:16,486
I like the feedback.

8
00:00:16,486 --> 00:00:17,626
I, is that true?

9
00:00:17,656 --> 00:00:18,616
I guess we do, do we

10
00:00:18,616 --> 00:00:18,916
not very

11
00:00:19,036 --> 00:00:19,681
whine

12
00:00:19,816 --> 00:00:21,256
and talk about media all

13
00:00:21,291 --> 00:00:21,581
Yeah.

14
00:00:21,706 --> 00:00:28,396
I mean, I, I know that I try to change the
topic and it's always back, but let's talk about
SEO and ads and I'm like, fucking hell man.

15
00:00:32,330 --> 00:00:32,720
Fuck it.

16
00:00:33,260 --> 00:00:33,800
Yeah.

17
00:00:34,040 --> 00:00:35,480
It's good to see you, tiger.

18
00:00:35,643 --> 00:00:35,943
What's

19
00:00:35,943 --> 00:00:36,603
going on?

20
00:00:36,603 --> 00:00:37,533
It's good to see you too.

21
00:00:37,652 --> 00:00:38,372
Yeah.

22
00:00:38,447 --> 00:00:39,107
spring break.

23
00:00:39,107 --> 00:00:40,907
Next week I'm going to Palm Springs.

24
00:00:41,059 --> 00:00:41,544
Oh, that's nice.

25
00:00:41,819 --> 00:00:42,599
Yeah, I love Palm

26
00:00:42,599 --> 00:00:43,139
Springs.

27
00:01:05,677 --> 00:01:07,365
Welcome to people versus Algorithms.

28
00:01:07,365 --> 00:01:08,445
I'm Brian Marcey.

29
00:01:08,505 --> 00:01:12,345
I'm joined by Troy Young, who was just
in the uk, but is back in Brooklyn.

30
00:01:12,825 --> 00:01:17,775
Alex Schleifer does not have a hard
stop until at least 3:00 PM Eastern.

31
00:01:18,135 --> 00:01:18,345
Yep.

32
00:01:18,945 --> 00:01:21,555
Is the SEO expert gonna join us later, or no?

33
00:01:21,770 --> 00:01:21,870
dunno.

34
00:01:21,870 --> 00:01:23,400
I think maybe we'll have him on next week.

35
00:01:23,400 --> 00:01:27,990
And also we're, you know, as a little preview, we
we're also gonna have Rich on Rich Antonella from

36
00:01:28,155 --> 00:01:28,845
Oh yeah.

37
00:01:28,875 --> 00:01:29,505
That'll be fun.

38
00:01:29,505 --> 00:01:30,495
That'll be an explicit

39
00:01:30,720 --> 00:01:31,080
a

40
00:01:31,320 --> 00:01:33,210
LinkedIn hustler hustle guy,

41
00:01:33,735 --> 00:01:34,875
He's got a lot of life advice.

42
00:01:35,175 --> 00:01:36,945
This is Rich.

43
00:01:36,945 --> 00:01:37,635
I love Rich.

44
00:01:37,711 --> 00:01:39,687
I've done some great podcasts
with him in the past.

45
00:01:39,910 --> 00:01:45,520
he definitely proves my theory that if you're,
you know, if you're on the internet long
enough, you become a, you become a life coach.

46
00:01:45,610 --> 00:01:46,240
But I like, I like

47
00:01:46,255 --> 00:01:47,965
about, I have a rant about this.

48
00:01:48,025 --> 00:01:49,105
I have a rant about this.

49
00:01:49,225 --> 00:01:51,355
I didn't even mean to lead us to this topic.

50
00:01:51,567 --> 00:01:51,957
Go ahead.

51
00:01:51,957 --> 00:01:52,467
Then we'll get into

52
00:01:52,467 --> 00:01:53,157
tariffs.

53
00:01:53,193 --> 00:01:53,747
Well this

54
00:01:53,747 --> 00:01:56,352
is sort of related to terrors, so.

55
00:01:56,770 --> 00:01:58,090
I don't know, what did I see?

56
00:01:58,090 --> 00:02:03,640
Something about Chamath Poly on X
and I hadn't been reading much media.

57
00:02:03,640 --> 00:02:04,390
I was busy.

58
00:02:04,990 --> 00:02:25,340
And then I noticed that he's holding court
on the Flagrant podcast, sort of like
bloviating about the deep logic of Trump tariff
policy and the underlying, you know, stuff,
macroeconomic and sociopolitical logic of it all.

59
00:02:25,940 --> 00:02:37,770
He's on YouTube, lots of audience being
interviewed by a famous comedian, Andrew
Schultz, who, the YouTube famous comedian
and his comedian dude, pod posse.

60
00:02:38,370 --> 00:02:49,470
And just as a, as a reminder, Chama studied
electrical engineering at Canada's University
of Waterloo, and he got lucky and dumb rich.

61
00:02:50,070 --> 00:02:54,240
By becoming the Facebook growth
guy at just the right time.

62
00:02:54,840 --> 00:02:55,110
Right.

63
00:02:55,110 --> 00:03:09,561
And has, by the way, since renounced the evil
work he did there, um, and I'm sure he, he,
he's, you know, has wonderful growth skills and
you know, at times he's reasonably articulate
and dare I say occasionally insightful.

64
00:03:10,161 --> 00:03:11,961
Alex May disagree with me on that.

65
00:03:12,391 --> 00:03:16,291
he's not an economist or an
experienced policy person.

66
00:03:16,891 --> 00:03:22,891
He was what, about eight months ago, red
pilled by his poker pal, David Sachs.

67
00:03:23,491 --> 00:03:34,861
since then, Chamath has seemingly
developed a taste for proximity to power
and kind of freely leveraged this and his
newfound pod celebrity to sling it around.

68
00:03:35,410 --> 00:03:38,493
To support the Trump agenda, which is up to him.

69
00:03:38,493 --> 00:03:39,333
I'm happy for him.

70
00:03:40,033 --> 00:03:43,033
his new celebrity seems fun
and he has nice sweaters.

71
00:03:44,003 --> 00:04:01,433
and then I stood back and was like, comedians
interviewing allure, piano influencer   slash
growth product person about tariff policy
is basically what we've come to expect in
the new infor in the information space.

72
00:04:01,433 --> 00:04:02,933
That's media now, right?

73
00:04:03,533 --> 00:04:06,773
And in the old times I was like,
well, what would've happened before?

74
00:04:06,773 --> 00:04:20,873
And we would've had like seasoned kind of policy
journalists backed by like economic policy
expert editors, backed by fact checking teams,
interviewing actual economists and actual experts.

75
00:04:21,473 --> 00:04:23,183
And what does it mean to be an expert?

76
00:04:23,183 --> 00:04:29,573
Well, you understand the cause effect
connection between things because you're.

77
00:04:30,128 --> 00:04:40,058
You, you're learned, you've studied history,
you've studied policy, you've studied
economic models, you like, you know your shit.

78
00:04:40,658 --> 00:04:50,817
And, to watch the sort of Trump tariff
policies spill out across social media
reminds me, I, I just kept thinking this

79
00:04:50,902 --> 00:05:00,627
is like Model UN in high school meets the
Comedy Cellar and like, but on like a Tuesday
night, you know, like not a good night.

80
00:05:01,407 --> 00:05:07,503
And, and then over on the other side we have
Zach, do you remember Zach from say Media?

81
00:05:07,503 --> 00:05:07,953
Alex?

82
00:05:07,953 --> 00:05:09,933
He was Nat Turner's partner.

83
00:05:10,163 --> 00:05:10,453
Yeah.

84
00:05:10,518 --> 00:05:11,118
Weinberg.

85
00:05:11,403 --> 00:05:11,913
Yeah.

86
00:05:12,093 --> 00:05:16,713
Zach has become kind of an aggressive
debater on another  YouTube

87
00:05:16,890 --> 00:05:19,080
thing, interviewing the.

88
00:05:19,215 --> 00:05:20,595
all the crypto guys one

89
00:05:20,820 --> 00:05:21,510
Yeah.

90
00:05:21,510 --> 00:05:23,370
Yeah, it was really refreshing actually.

91
00:05:23,370 --> 00:05:31,738
He was going up against Keith Robis, who's
like a mindless Trump  supporter and,
and kind of schooling him to be honest.

92
00:05:32,278 --> 00:05:48,511
And, you know, you got these two guys, this kind
of entrepreneur come venture capitalist with this
kind of semi entrepreneur, venture capitalist
guy, you know, telling us what we need to know
about, whether tariffs are, in fact, you know,

93
00:05:48,811 --> 00:06:02,821
we're trying to get to use our might to get to a
zero tariff world so we can engage in fair free
trade, or that we're trying to exercise some
kind of like industrial policy so that we can.

94
00:06:03,126 --> 00:06:15,696
you know, build back, you know, industrial
supremacy in America and protect the
long-term interests of the country and
use, you know, sort of tariffs as a policy
device, seemingly contradictory things.

95
00:06:16,026 --> 00:06:28,536
Having this conversation and like, I'm
all for, you know, conversation and, and,
and I guess that like everything we say
and do in public spaces is just media now.

96
00:06:29,136 --> 00:06:35,226
But if my lower back hurts and I wanna know
if it's cancer or not, I'm going to a doctor.

97
00:06:35,843 --> 00:06:40,613
And if I wanna know how to, you know, diffuse
a nuclear bomb, I'm going get the right guy.

98
00:06:41,213 --> 00:06:55,013
And so, you know, I, I, I just, it, it, it's,
it's, it's really a confusing time and I
think this tariff moment is really kind of
illustrative of how I miss experts in media.

99
00:06:55,407 --> 00:06:55,827
yeah.

100
00:06:56,107 --> 00:07:04,117
and it's hard to tell really if it's just like
the Dunning Kruger effect where people who, I
mean, I think Chamath is very much that, right?

101
00:07:04,117 --> 00:07:10,357
Like he, he had success, so he thinks he knows
everything about everything right now, and
there's a lot of confidence in when he says thing.

102
00:07:10,357 --> 00:07:15,037
But, There's also the fact that it, today,
it doesn't matter if you change your mind.

103
00:07:15,037 --> 00:07:25,537
I mean, it just, it's just proof, that,
you can say whatever you want and that
the media river just flows by and the next
week you can completely change your mind.

104
00:07:25,567 --> 00:07:33,547
And we've all seen the super cuts of
people reacting to market declines
under Biden, like freaking out.

105
00:07:33,817 --> 00:07:33,937
All

106
00:07:33,967 --> 00:07:48,397
Yeah, Benny Johnson had one that, that was
one that he was, he was freaking out over some
little decline, I guess like a couple years
ago and then it's like cuts to today and he
was like, having money's no money is fine.

107
00:07:48,637 --> 00:07:48,847
It's

108
00:07:48,847 --> 00:07:49,417
fine.

109
00:07:49,610 --> 00:07:50,717
money doesn't cost you

110
00:07:50,822 --> 00:07:51,122
He is

111
00:07:51,257 --> 00:07:52,067
like, what's the big deal?

112
00:07:52,337 --> 00:07:54,197
Losing money doesn't cost you anything.

113
00:07:54,321 --> 00:07:55,571
you didn't have any money as a child.

114
00:07:55,571 --> 00:07:56,411
You were happy.

115
00:07:56,441 --> 00:07:57,251
yeah, exactly.

116
00:07:57,732 --> 00:07:59,341
It's, you know what it feels like a little bit,

117
00:07:59,382 --> 00:08:00,162
It's different

118
00:08:00,162 --> 00:08:01,212
in your fifties though,

119
00:08:01,227 --> 00:08:01,456
Yeah.

120
00:08:01,707 --> 00:08:07,086
Did, did you know that, the, the Mission
Impossible movies are really interesting
because the way they start shooting those

121
00:08:07,086 --> 00:08:14,076
is that they set up the stunt and they said,
okay, we want Tom to fly off to jump off a
cliff on a motorcycle and land on a train.

122
00:08:14,286 --> 00:08:20,356
And they go out and they shoot that stunt and
then, and, and maybe a couple of others, and
then they build the script and story around it.

123
00:08:20,356 --> 00:08:21,976
So they start shooting without a script.

124
00:08:22,216 --> 00:08:23,716
And this feels exactly like that.

125
00:08:23,986 --> 00:08:33,046
Somebody woke up one morning and started
throwing random numbers out, and now you
have all these sycophants and, and people
that are holding court, like you were saying.

126
00:08:33,286 --> 00:08:37,846
And it does feel like that, just trying
to build the script around the stunt.

127
00:08:38,266 --> 00:08:41,126
and it's, it's maddening, because it works.

128
00:08:41,446 --> 00:08:44,261
But it's also, it's also, it's kind of thrilling.

129
00:08:44,531 --> 00:08:49,631
Let's, let's admit it, like, right,
like, I mean, I, I, I understand
what you're saying Troy, about like.

130
00:08:50,066 --> 00:08:55,646
Wishing to have the August like economists
and unpacking this in a very somber way.

131
00:08:55,976 --> 00:09:05,936
But we're, we're well past that, and I
don't think there's any going back to
that, I found just following this over
the last week to be really fascinating.

132
00:09:05,996 --> 00:09:06,086
I

133
00:09:06,086 --> 00:09:07,871
I was eager to hear your take though.

134
00:09:08,411 --> 00:09:12,431
Did, did, did, did X Turn against
Chamath after that stupid podcast?

135
00:09:12,986 --> 00:09:14,126
It's hard to say.

136
00:09:14,156 --> 00:09:14,846
It's hard to say.

137
00:09:15,026 --> 00:09:15,596
Because there's

138
00:09:15,596 --> 00:09:25,146
also like, there's also massive Chamath,
there's Chamath fan boys deconstructing
in, in multi, you know, layered, threads.

139
00:09:25,146 --> 00:09:27,936
Like what this great man is telling us.

140
00:09:28,146 --> 00:09:29,826
Like people take him seriously.

141
00:09:29,976 --> 00:09:32,106
This is, this is what's weird about it.

142
00:09:32,391 --> 00:09:33,261
did you know he,

143
00:09:33,404 --> 00:09:34,514
he's one of the top

144
00:09:34,934 --> 00:09:37,604
He's the fucking growth guy from Facebook.

145
00:09:37,934 --> 00:09:40,124
He's one of the top grossing sub stackers.

146
00:09:40,124 --> 00:09:47,264
He has like a $10,000 a month substack,
and that actually has vaulted him
into the top 10 of like substack.

147
00:09:47,759 --> 00:09:52,499
There's enough people out there
that are paying him over a million
dollars for access to his substack,

148
00:09:52,859 --> 00:09:56,039
according to a chart that AB shared.

149
00:09:57,074 --> 00:09:57,284
it?

150
00:09:57,284 --> 00:09:59,444
It's like confidence plus shamelessness.

151
00:09:59,474 --> 00:10:01,874
Like how do we, how do we like get in on

152
00:10:01,949 --> 00:10:03,329
Well, it's the appearance of competence.

153
00:10:03,329 --> 00:10:05,279
I think that really is the
only thing that matters right

154
00:10:05,359 --> 00:10:11,984
just that when we verge, you can talk
to me about whether you think the,
New York Giants made the right trade.

155
00:10:11,984 --> 00:10:15,044
And you can just be some
fucking guy and that's fine.

156
00:10:15,314 --> 00:10:22,124
And you can talk to me about, you know,
whether you like the Chinese food at
the new Chinese restaurant in soho.

157
00:10:22,214 --> 00:10:22,724
Great.

158
00:10:22,784 --> 00:10:27,164
You can be some, some person, but
when you start talking to me about, I.

159
00:10:27,734 --> 00:10:31,094
Like really nuanced macroeconomic policy.

160
00:10:31,154 --> 00:10:32,834
Sometimes I want you to be a doctor

161
00:10:33,724 --> 00:10:34,014
Yeah.

162
00:10:34,204 --> 00:10:34,494
Yeah.

163
00:10:34,629 --> 00:10:37,599
Well, maybe not Dave Portnoy weighed in.

164
00:10:37,599 --> 00:10:43,269
I mean, this actually, I, I think this
is one of the pressure points was Dave
Portnoy was, was turning against Trump.

165
00:10:43,269 --> 00:10:50,829
Now he's a, he, he represents an important
constituency and the, the reality is
Trump won from low information voters.

166
00:10:51,879 --> 00:10:59,849
I mean, I think it was made the point that
like 60% of Americans rated a sixth grade
reading level or lower, that came out during
this, didn't fact check it, but that sense.

167
00:11:00,359 --> 00:11:01,109
which is fine.

168
00:11:01,389 --> 00:11:07,959
but like you have to think like the idea that
someone is gonna just listen to a Nobel Prize
winning economist is just out the window.

169
00:11:07,989 --> 00:11:17,349
I mean, look, Trump has branded these
things as reciprocal tariffs and the New
York Times has to put it in quotes 'cause
it's like literally they're not reciprocal.

170
00:11:17,379 --> 00:11:18,609
Like they don't match up.

171
00:11:18,609 --> 00:11:22,937
So that, that you can't, you can't just
take a word and say it means something else.

172
00:11:22,937 --> 00:11:24,378
you have to put it in quotes.

173
00:11:24,578 --> 00:11:25,883
Is there a breaking point though?

174
00:11:25,883 --> 00:11:38,590
Is there, is there like a breaking point where,
to me it's like, it seems to be escalating
and the, the, the, it's so, flagrant, you
know, like the podcast, that it's, it's
like at some point it becomes noticeable.

175
00:11:38,590 --> 00:11:43,870
Wait, the shit you were telling us last
year, it's completely different to the
shit you were telling us this year.

176
00:11:43,870 --> 00:11:53,410
And the whole like, manosphere, grift space,
like that, it, there's all these playbooks
that are being played up all the time where
people just change their minds or just say

177
00:11:53,410 --> 00:12:00,280
the opposite thing that they were last week or
become Christian because all of a sudden there's
rape accusations like Russell Brand, right.

178
00:12:00,910 --> 00:12:01,600
Russell Brand

179
00:12:01,960 --> 00:12:02,230
turned

180
00:12:02,250 --> 00:12:02,845
is a Floridian.

181
00:12:03,250 --> 00:12:04,390
He's a Floridian Now.

182
00:12:04,840 --> 00:12:05,710
So yeah, move to

183
00:12:05,995 --> 00:12:08,335
I think he's actually, I
think Russell Brand is also

184
00:12:08,335 --> 00:12:11,095
a, uh, a macroeconomic policy expert.

185
00:12:11,290 --> 00:12:15,550
If anybody moves to Florida and becomes
a Christian, something's coming,

186
00:12:16,195 --> 00:12:17,275
Short that stock,

187
00:12:17,280 --> 00:12:17,560
yeah.

188
00:12:18,340 --> 00:12:18,730
short.

189
00:12:18,755 --> 00:12:18,955
It.

190
00:12:19,586 --> 00:12:23,515
But, so here's, here's my, here's
my positive take on this, right?

191
00:12:23,575 --> 00:12:26,935
Is the way these things normally,
and I'm gonna try my best.

192
00:12:27,235 --> 00:12:30,805
The way these things normally take place
is they're very controlled rollouts.

193
00:12:30,865 --> 00:12:35,665
Everyone gets to their talking points,
and you have surrogates that go out
there with their talking points.

194
00:12:35,935 --> 00:12:37,345
That is not what happened here.

195
00:12:37,855 --> 00:12:47,065
We had the world's richest man who is also
a close advisor of the president calling his
top trade policy architect, Peter Retardo.

196
00:12:47,155 --> 00:12:48,025
I can say that now

197
00:12:48,055 --> 00:12:50,095
I have no money in my 401k, but I

198
00:12:50,095 --> 00:12:50,315
It

199
00:12:50,315 --> 00:12:50,915
was worth it.

200
00:12:51,055 --> 00:12:51,675
It was worth.

201
00:12:53,017 --> 00:12:59,527
you know, we've got Dave Porter, we have Scott
Besant sent out to do the hard yards, not just on

202
00:13:00,020 --> 00:13:08,630
But the character, he's become in this sort
of expert, the new, new expert land is he's
the guy that made his mark with smart trades.

203
00:13:08,810 --> 00:13:13,070
He, he, he's held up by everyone to
be at, well, at least there's Scott.

204
00:13:13,670 --> 00:13:16,160
At least someone's smart there, right?

205
00:13:16,160 --> 00:13:17,930
At least there's someone who
knows what they're doing.

206
00:13:17,930 --> 00:13:21,380
Oh, Scott, you know, is soft
spoken and has thick glasses.

207
00:13:21,380 --> 00:13:23,210
He's like, nerd stock.

208
00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:25,850
He's like, real, he'll take care of it.

209
00:13:26,120 --> 00:13:26,270
He'll

210
00:13:26,300 --> 00:13:31,790
he's got a, he's got a good part,
he's got a classic part, you know,
like he's got the, the sweep.

211
00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:32,600
It's good.

212
00:13:32,600 --> 00:13:38,030
He looks, he looks good, he looks apart,
but he was on Tucker Carlson explaining
it, and then he was on like, all in.

213
00:13:38,030 --> 00:13:44,080
So it, it's interesting how this, this, stuff is
now, now filtered through the information space.

214
00:13:44,560 --> 00:13:57,705
I did you see that Walter Bloomberg, which
is an pseudonymous, x account, caused a
$2.4 trillion swing in the market by, by
misreporting, that the, the terrorists

215
00:13:57,765 --> 00:14:00,105
Is that, is, is that Bloomberg's brother?

216
00:14:00,511 --> 00:14:05,865
Hey, is this, is this what happens
when you, uh,  when you sell blue check
marks for like eight bucks a month?

217
00:14:08,905 --> 00:14:13,495
Uh, you know, all of these like
things of no consequence are having
like really real consequences.

218
00:14:13,720 --> 00:14:15,310
But here's my positive take on it.

219
00:14:15,370 --> 00:14:32,840
I would rather have like, like his advisors,
duking it out in public and have this sort of
all playing out transparently than the strategic
leaks and the talking points because it lays
bare, sort of how the sausage is truly made.

220
00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:36,620
Now, I think it's extreme in this
case, but it's anyone who's wor

221
00:14:36,650 --> 00:14:37,130
ever worked

222
00:14:37,130 --> 00:14:37,280
in a

223
00:14:37,595 --> 00:14:41,645
That, that's a, actually, that's that,
that's become a maga talking point actually,

224
00:14:42,395 --> 00:14:43,355
which is where the most

225
00:14:43,355 --> 00:14:46,295
transparent we're the, we're the
most transparent government ever.

226
00:14:46,295 --> 00:14:46,325
Mm.

227
00:14:46,480 --> 00:14:47,225
Yeah, exactly.

228
00:14:47,300 --> 00:14:48,080
true.

229
00:14:48,170 --> 00:14:49,010
I, it's true.

230
00:14:49,250 --> 00:14:50,900
Like they're definitely not hiding Trump.

231
00:14:51,050 --> 00:14:53,750
They might want to, but like they're
not hiding him, that's for sure.

232
00:14:53,750 --> 00:14:55,550
You cannot accuse them of that.

233
00:14:55,890 --> 00:14:59,125
I, I, I don't want it to get
conflated with honesty though, right?

234
00:14:59,125 --> 00:15:04,015
Like, I think it's, it's still super dodgy
what's going on with, with all of this stuff.

235
00:15:04,075 --> 00:15:08,055
And I, and I think transparency
would also require honesty.

236
00:15:08,145 --> 00:15:13,125
I mean, you know, there's, they're
saying stuff, but you know, it doesn't
mean that it's true or it's what

237
00:15:13,450 --> 00:15:16,875
I mean, like you said, Brian, we came
last week when we talked memes with Nick.

238
00:15:17,355 --> 00:15:25,905
You know, narratives are powerful things and,
you know, the, the, the Republicans have have
stolen the kind of working men Main Street

239
00:15:26,265 --> 00:15:35,295
platform and, you know, the, the, this is
all seemingly, I mean, you know, there's
a lot of conversation about motives here.

240
00:15:35,385 --> 00:15:37,455
Like what are the motives, what's our objective?

241
00:15:38,055 --> 00:15:38,955
And, you know.

242
00:15:39,315 --> 00:15:50,265
You can see a kind of populous narrative
underneath of this, that this is all about not
rewarding the, the, the, the bankers and lawyer
class, but, but, you know, doing something

243
00:15:50,265 --> 00:15:57,045
for Main Street and Scott's out, Scott Beins
out talking about this and Trump talks about
it and all of the sick offense talk about it.

244
00:15:57,585 --> 00:16:11,955
meanwhile, I cannot, I walked home from a
meeting this morning and I was just like,
walking by stores and, you know, just kind of,
I don't think that there's a single business
that isn't like shitting their pants right now.

245
00:16:12,409 --> 00:16:12,859
Yeah.

246
00:16:12,881 --> 00:16:21,431
small businesses that have lost, you know,
not just that they're, you need to thrive in
volatility, but like, you know, that they can't

247
00:16:21,431 --> 00:16:31,091
order next season's clothing for their little
clothing boutique in New York City because
of, they don't know where they're gonna get it

248
00:16:31,508 --> 00:16:31,798
Yeah.

249
00:16:31,933 --> 00:16:32,863
at what price,

250
00:16:33,318 --> 00:16:33,558
I mean,

251
00:16:33,685 --> 00:16:34,975
it's happening to Apple.

252
00:16:35,432 --> 00:16:35,912
Yeah.

253
00:16:35,972 --> 00:16:43,762
Well, let's talk, let's talk about
the downstream impacts of the, the
real world impacts beyond this, like
information sta space nonsense, of this.

254
00:16:43,792 --> 00:16:55,432
'cause it is going to, I mean, look, this
thing is whipsawed back and forth and now
it's, it's apparent, it's back to, oh,
it's just about like China and this is
going gonna go on for a long, long time.

255
00:16:55,657 --> 00:16:58,807
Yeah, but I mean, let's stick,
stick to the information space.

256
00:16:58,807 --> 00:17:01,053
Like advertising, advertising.

257
00:17:01,177 --> 00:17:01,687
Like forget

258
00:17:02,287 --> 00:17:03,577
Ian Shehan.

259
00:17:03,577 --> 00:17:05,287
Timo, that that's gone.

260
00:17:05,507 --> 00:17:13,517
all these little, you know, B2C retailers that
kind of like, you know, that I keep seeing on
Instagram that are trying to sell me beard oil.

261
00:17:14,305 --> 00:17:17,755
I mean, maybe the beard oil is fine,
but you know, like little clocks and

262
00:17:17,945 --> 00:17:20,140
Where do they make, where do they make beard oil.

263
00:17:20,635 --> 00:17:20,995
I don't know.

264
00:17:20,995 --> 00:17:24,355
Mine is kind of like honest
Amish, so I think it's, it's

265
00:17:24,355 --> 00:17:24,535
over

266
00:17:24,535 --> 00:17:24,925
here.

267
00:17:24,940 --> 00:17:25,450
make it.

268
00:17:25,525 --> 00:17:25,945
Yeah,

269
00:17:26,289 --> 00:17:27,669
Oh, so maybe it is American made.

270
00:17:28,104 --> 00:17:28,404
yeah.

271
00:17:28,404 --> 00:17:28,914
Maybe.

272
00:17:29,094 --> 00:17:30,534
And then they sell it to the English.

273
00:17:31,088 --> 00:17:32,018
like advertising.

274
00:17:32,018 --> 00:17:32,948
Like what, what happens?

275
00:17:32,948 --> 00:17:35,918
Like this, kind of magnificent
seven stocks are being shorted.

276
00:17:36,288 --> 00:17:44,186
I think in large part Google and Facebook and,
and Meta because of kind of the advertising hit
this is gonna take, this is gonna bring with it.

277
00:17:44,186 --> 00:17:44,516
No.

278
00:17:45,038 --> 00:17:47,138
Just sticking to media and talking about

279
00:17:47,423 --> 00:17:50,063
Yeah, I mean, look, the, the,
it's always downstream of that.

280
00:17:50,063 --> 00:17:52,553
I mean, advertising is the
easiest thing to turn off.

281
00:17:52,553 --> 00:17:54,743
You can't like stop building a plant or data.

282
00:17:54,773 --> 00:17:55,613
I mean, I guess you can.

283
00:17:55,613 --> 00:17:58,853
Microsoft stopped a data center, but it's harder.

284
00:17:59,093 --> 00:18:00,503
Capital investments are harder.

285
00:18:00,503 --> 00:18:02,003
You can always cut advertising.

286
00:18:02,033 --> 00:18:11,243
I always joke that, you know, a recession's
coming when one of those articles pops
up on adage saying the worst thing to do
is to cut advertising during a downturn.

287
00:18:11,243 --> 00:18:15,083
And ev no, CCFO apparently reads
adage because they always cut it.

288
00:18:15,330 --> 00:18:19,500
we cut it at Airbnb like
pretty, pretty extensively.

289
00:18:19,840 --> 00:18:21,430
and for a second it didn't make a difference.

290
00:18:21,430 --> 00:18:22,540
So maybe that was the

291
00:18:22,560 --> 00:18:24,415
oh well that was the performance stuff.

292
00:18:24,415 --> 00:18:25,345
I remember that stunt.

293
00:18:25,955 --> 00:18:39,355
yeah, it's gonna, I think one of the big
sort of impacts of all of this with is with
the overall soft power of America, like
America's exports are, are mostly in services.

294
00:18:39,355 --> 00:18:39,685
Yes.

295
00:18:39,690 --> 00:18:41,125
But in like cultural products.

296
00:18:41,650 --> 00:18:45,520
And I think that's a, an
underrated aspect of this.

297
00:18:45,970 --> 00:18:52,360
you know, it, the American, the US
National Anthem is being booed at
NHL Games in Canada by your people.

298
00:18:52,360 --> 00:18:55,210
Troy and I, I kind of don't
blame 'em to be honest with you.

299
00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:58,330
And I think that's gonna have a real impact.

300
00:18:58,420 --> 00:19:01,540
I mean, obviously China is
going to go after Hollywood.

301
00:19:01,540 --> 00:19:03,760
I mean, there's a reason
their stocks got got crushed.

302
00:19:03,790 --> 00:19:04,780
They've done this before.

303
00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:07,180
They're gonna stop showing, Hollywood movies.

304
00:19:07,570 --> 00:19:11,560
there's gonna be a tremendous
amount of impact of this disruption.

305
00:19:11,560 --> 00:19:22,690
'cause I do not see, I do not see Trump and
the Trump administration all of a sudden
snapping back to being like, oh yeah, well
we tried that and that's, you know, we're
just gonna go back to being like normal.

306
00:19:22,690 --> 00:19:27,970
This is, this is gonna be three and a what, a
three and three quarters years at least of this.

307
00:19:28,570 --> 00:19:28,840
Yeah.

308
00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:36,100
And then, so in that time, that's you,
you, you need, you need at least two to
four years to start onshoring anything.

309
00:19:36,100 --> 00:19:37,810
I don't know who's gonna start doing that.

310
00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:44,170
So that's the, the external factors
of that is, is definitely like the,
these new alliances forming, right?

311
00:19:44,170 --> 00:19:46,180
We might be seeing new alliances in Asia.

312
00:19:46,360 --> 00:19:52,120
Like a lot of the news I'm hearing from Europe as
a European actually feel pretty good about, right?

313
00:19:52,150 --> 00:19:55,330
Europe feels more united than ever before.

314
00:19:55,660 --> 00:19:57,640
they're going to invest in their own defenses.

315
00:19:57,640 --> 00:20:07,520
They're, they're, they're going to start,
I mean, talk about Onshoring, like I think
Europe is, is starting to build, You know, it's
kind of, it's like reinforcing itself against
this stuff, and it will create new alliances.

316
00:20:07,520 --> 00:20:11,750
I mean, like, this is, I mean, it's
terrible for China in the short term, right?

317
00:20:11,750 --> 00:20:13,220
Terrible for China in the short term.

318
00:20:13,640 --> 00:20:20,090
But in, in the long term, China's
going to be making alliances with
all these other Western alliances.

319
00:20:20,090 --> 00:20:22,880
And that's what happens when you
run a country as a fucking business.

320
00:20:23,180 --> 00:20:27,860
A business doesn't have alliances, doesn't have
friends in a business, you're always competing.

321
00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:31,910
And if you lose out, if somebody
else wins, you usually lose out.

322
00:20:31,910 --> 00:20:35,660
You see everybody else's competitors, or at
least that's the way these folks are seeing it.

323
00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:38,870
And that's not a way to run a, a a, a country.

324
00:20:38,870 --> 00:20:39,470
And so

325
00:20:39,664 --> 00:20:50,644
although Trump is, is kind of like he's
going back to the Gilded Age and that
mercantilism where there were a lot of
alliances businesses allied with, with
each other in order to avoid competition.

326
00:20:50,644 --> 00:21:07,082
So there is hope for that, but one positive that
has come out of this, Troy and I thought of you
when I saw this, um, I went to politico.eu and
I xed out of a massive cookie consent banner
to find that the European, I'll just read it.

327
00:21:07,682 --> 00:21:13,232
The Europe's most famous technology
law, the GDPR is next on the hit list.

328
00:21:13,232 --> 00:21:22,412
As the European Union pushes ahead with its
regulatory killing spree to slash laws, it
reckons are weighing down its businesses.

329
00:21:23,012 --> 00:21:27,872
So GDPR, all of this could be
in service of a greater good.

330
00:21:27,872 --> 00:21:32,102
And that is the end of the tyranny of GDPR.

331
00:21:32,702 --> 00:21:33,752
Congratulations.

332
00:21:34,322 --> 00:21:37,439
I mean, it, it couldn't have
happened, soon enough, to be honest.

333
00:21:37,529 --> 00:21:38,669
It's ridiculous.

334
00:21:38,699 --> 00:21:48,599
It doesn't protect anyone and it adds
terrible friction to an already horrible
consumer medium as a media delivery mechanism.

335
00:21:48,599 --> 00:21:49,229
So great.

336
00:21:49,259 --> 00:21:49,709
It's great.

337
00:21:49,709 --> 00:21:49,949
It was

338
00:21:50,024 --> 00:21:50,489
Can, can you

339
00:21:50,489 --> 00:21:53,819
explain, can you explain what it
is and what the impact is on people

340
00:21:54,029 --> 00:22:04,439
people's privacy, let people know that
they're being tracked in some shape or
form, either as a, a cookie that helps,
you know, create functionality on a
website or is used for ad targeting.

341
00:22:05,009 --> 00:22:11,335
And, you see it on every website,
the little bottom banner that says,
you know, you can opt in or opt out.

342
00:22:11,335 --> 00:22:12,625
Everybody engineers it.

343
00:22:12,625 --> 00:22:14,815
So actually opting out is way harder.

344
00:22:15,085 --> 00:22:19,255
So everybody, you know, the opt-in rates or
something like 60% or something like that.

345
00:22:19,735 --> 00:22:30,575
And it's just, it's, it, it, it, it
was, it created an entire new industry
in ad tech that are, I guess, good
for people like Brian, that take their
money for, well, advertising the consent

346
00:22:30,665 --> 00:22:31,175
business.

347
00:22:31,565 --> 00:22:32,345
No, I haven't.

348
00:22:32,345 --> 00:22:35,545
I tried to sell Source
Point, but no, it, I did, we

349
00:22:35,545 --> 00:22:36,535
didn't do any business.

350
00:22:36,596 --> 00:22:37,543
It was yet another

351
00:22:37,543 --> 00:22:40,123
expense for media companies, by the way.

352
00:22:40,348 --> 00:22:46,183
And, and the people that had authenticated users
like Google and Meta never suffered at all you

353
00:22:46,213 --> 00:22:47,143
No, just locked in.

354
00:22:47,143 --> 00:22:48,313
It locked in competition.

355
00:22:48,373 --> 00:22:48,853
I would say It

356
00:22:49,166 --> 00:22:54,386
benefited, benefited this podcast as
well because it's probably 15% of our
content is Troy complaining about it.

357
00:22:54,386 --> 00:22:55,166
So it's

358
00:22:55,271 --> 00:22:55,868
What it cost.

359
00:22:55,991 --> 00:22:56,621
It cost.

360
00:22:56,621 --> 00:23:03,821
I, I saw a study it cost between 1.7
million for small, medium sized firms
to up to $70 million for compliance.

361
00:23:03,821 --> 00:23:07,481
The, the, I couldn't find a total cost of GDPR.

362
00:23:07,891 --> 00:23:08,791
and for what?

363
00:23:08,851 --> 00:23:10,051
Like what did we get out of it?

364
00:23:10,471 --> 00:23:11,131
What did it do?

365
00:23:11,131 --> 00:23:11,281
It

366
00:23:11,381 --> 00:23:18,058
Well, here, here's the thing, maybe also
to clarify and, and Troy, Troy is so,
I'm gonna ask, how does that, why does

367
00:23:18,418 --> 00:23:19,798
instead of trying to poke me,

368
00:23:19,993 --> 00:23:20,263
you

369
00:23:20,263 --> 00:23:22,873
can't, you can't defend   Alex.

370
00:23:22,873 --> 00:23:23,353
This is one

371
00:23:23,428 --> 00:23:23,608
it.

372
00:23:23,668 --> 00:23:23,878
I'm

373
00:23:23,878 --> 00:23:24,569
not defending it.

374
00:23:25,018 --> 00:23:27,478
I'm not, I mean, it unites Europeans.

375
00:23:27,838 --> 00:23:29,518
how does GD, how does,

376
00:23:29,518 --> 00:23:30,898
Hey, Alex,

377
00:23:31,558 --> 00:23:33,418
tell me what's in my sausage.

378
00:23:33,718 --> 00:23:37,348
Don't like put a ba, a useless
banner on the bottom of my website.

379
00:23:37,738 --> 00:23:38,248
No, I'm good.

380
00:23:38,278 --> 00:23:38,878
I'm good with that.

381
00:23:38,878 --> 00:23:44,480
I'm literally asking, like we, we talk, it's
maybe a, a chance, and Vania, maybe edit this out.

382
00:23:44,510 --> 00:23:45,590
What I'm trying to frame is

383
00:23:45,770 --> 00:23:48,380
No, you can't, you can't, keep
doing, you can't keep doing that.

384
00:23:48,590 --> 00:23:53,180
Part of the, the beauty of, of your
mind and this podcast is spontaneity.

385
00:23:53,360 --> 00:23:53,660
Alex.

386
00:23:54,290 --> 00:23:54,560
No,

387
00:23:54,740 --> 00:23:55,160
Uh,

388
00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:56,150
let Vanya edit out

389
00:23:56,450 --> 00:23:56,735
what,

390
00:23:56,810 --> 00:24:01,550
what, what, what I'm trying to ask you is
like, let's, let's frame it for people.

391
00:24:01,550 --> 00:24:07,340
Like how did GDR, because a lot of people I
talk to here about GDPR and I explain it to
them is, but isn't that a European thing?

392
00:24:07,340 --> 00:24:08,240
How does that affect me?

393
00:24:08,617 --> 00:24:14,672
You have to follow GDPR because you can't
serve different customers in different markets.

394
00:24:14,672 --> 00:24:23,312
It's a global market for information, and
so if you're operating, you're gonna have to
change how you operate because of GDPR, you're

395
00:24:23,357 --> 00:24:24,767
So, so in

396
00:24:24,932 --> 00:24:25,322
As a,

397
00:24:25,457 --> 00:24:27,641
terms, yeah, in real terms.

398
00:24:27,641 --> 00:24:33,131
The cookie, ugly cookie window you get
at the beginning of a page that's GDPR.

399
00:24:33,761 --> 00:24:34,121
Even,

400
00:24:34,346 --> 00:24:39,206
That's the most tangible manifestation of
GDPR that all of us have had to endure.

401
00:24:39,626 --> 00:24:43,796
you know, now Americans won't have money to
travel to Europe, so they won't have to endure it.

402
00:24:44,381 --> 00:24:44,771
it's even

403
00:24:44,846 --> 00:24:45,326
that too.

404
00:24:45,521 --> 00:24:45,971
right?

405
00:24:46,571 --> 00:24:47,681
Oh, it's, it's horrific.

406
00:24:47,681 --> 00:24:47,921
Yeah.

407
00:24:47,921 --> 00:24:49,691
You're just axing out Troy.

408
00:24:49,691 --> 00:24:52,151
Weren't you just like closing
cookie consent windows

409
00:24:52,196 --> 00:24:52,706
I don't even

410
00:24:52,751 --> 00:24:53,201
days?

411
00:24:53,486 --> 00:24:53,936
in Europe.

412
00:24:53,996 --> 00:25:02,527
think about it, like part, part of, but what
I mean, you, you, you're, you're saying that,
but I think it, it actually pushes people,
away from the open web and towards apps, right?

413
00:25:02,527 --> 00:25:04,837
There's like all these downstream
effects that came from it.

414
00:25:05,047 --> 00:25:10,077
And it was probably like one of the,
just like one of the most, anti open web.

415
00:25:10,518 --> 00:25:13,278
policies ever, like I'm very anti GDPR.

416
00:25:13,578 --> 00:25:21,918
Also, if you wanted to do this force, the browser
makers to make some sort of, you know, built-in
browser interface that handles that, don't

417
00:25:22,068 --> 00:25:32,808
Plus, you know, Alex, the cookie was the only
con concession towards a coherent kind of u
recognizing the user in a browser session.

418
00:25:32,958 --> 00:25:33,378
Yes.

419
00:25:33,410 --> 00:25:39,166
it's also asking people to make
a decision that they don't fully
understand, and so people just click Yes.

420
00:25:39,166 --> 00:25:40,216
Oh, I don't care.

421
00:25:40,632 --> 00:25:41,322
none of that.

422
00:25:41,412 --> 00:25:47,012
So I think the idea was flawed, the execution
was flawed, and in the end, everybody suffered.

423
00:25:47,012 --> 00:25:49,272
And the fact, how long has it been, going on for?

424
00:25:49,838 --> 00:25:49,958
I

425
00:25:49,963 --> 00:25:50,323
don't know,

426
00:25:50,474 --> 00:25:51,553
six, seven years.

427
00:25:51,733 --> 00:25:54,103
So I'm all, I'm, I'm all here
for this nightmare to end.

428
00:25:54,103 --> 00:25:54,853
Troy, I'm with you.

429
00:25:54,853 --> 00:25:58,063
I, I poke the bear a little bit because
you get, you're funny when you get angry at

430
00:25:58,393 --> 00:25:59,143
Seven years.

431
00:25:59,143 --> 00:26:00,201
Seven years later

432
00:26:00,888 --> 00:26:02,533
You're so cute when you're angry.

433
00:26:02,623 --> 00:26:03,043
You're cute.

434
00:26:03,433 --> 00:26:04,333
You're cute when you're angry.

435
00:26:05,826 --> 00:26:11,198
I mean, it's, but I, again, this is, this
is due to the pressure that is being put.

436
00:26:11,573 --> 00:26:20,611
On a lot of it is like good changes can
come, like Germany is now spending, you know,
they, they're stopping their, their silliness
with like, you know, against any sort of

437
00:26:20,633 --> 00:26:21,023
debt.

438
00:26:21,563 --> 00:26:26,943
And so a, you know, good things can
come out of, this kind of disruption.

439
00:26:26,943 --> 00:26:28,443
So let's, let's be open

440
00:26:28,818 --> 00:26:30,498
I am worried about Germany, as you know.

441
00:26:31,298 --> 00:26:34,413
are you, you're worried about their
infras levels of in infrastructure

442
00:26:34,668 --> 00:26:42,282
I'm worried that there are, the
industrial backbone is about to be
decimated by the Chinese, by the, the
destruction of the automotive business.

443
00:26:42,557 --> 00:26:42,677
the

444
00:26:42,677 --> 00:26:50,241
BYD and my brother was just in, in China
was just like, he's like the, it's like
their car industry is just so far ahead of,

445
00:26:50,421 --> 00:26:53,701
I mean, do you know like the, the China increased?

446
00:26:54,434 --> 00:26:55,574
It's export.

447
00:26:55,664 --> 00:27:03,720
So the Chinese car industry used to be kind
of very internally facing, but they, they
increase their export and the one of the

448
00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:10,890
biggest increase are the combustion engines
because they know they, they have a, a massive
production capacity for combustion engine.

449
00:27:11,190 --> 00:27:14,220
But Chinese consumers aren't really
buying combustion cars anymore.

450
00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:16,248
They're all switching to elec electric cars.

451
00:27:16,578 --> 00:27:20,808
So all these combustion engine cars are
flooding the markets outside of China.

452
00:27:21,315 --> 00:27:23,187
so it's, it's, it's kind of wild.

453
00:27:23,187 --> 00:27:25,467
They've, they've, they've leaped ahead in that.

454
00:27:25,831 --> 00:27:34,199
and meanwhile here, we're hoping to bring back,
you know, manufacturing jobs in Detroit to
bit good, good old fashioned cars, like in the

455
00:27:34,364 --> 00:27:40,454
You know what Alex, if you had just waited and
not bought that lucid, you could have paid maybe,
I don't know if you can get a BYD if you pay a

456
00:27:40,454 --> 00:27:47,984
massive tariff on it, or they're just completely
restricted from the US market, but they now have
one that has, comes with a drone on top of it.

457
00:27:47,984 --> 00:27:50,084
They have a partnership with the drone company.

458
00:27:50,594 --> 00:27:54,674
And so you can control the, I presume you
can control the drone from your dashboard.

459
00:27:55,234 --> 00:27:58,324
I saw one, like the cops have them in New York.

460
00:27:58,324 --> 00:28:03,004
They put a drone tethered from the top
of those SUVs outside of major events.

461
00:28:03,004 --> 00:28:06,214
So if they ever have to do crowd
surveillance, they just let it go.

462
00:28:06,784 --> 00:28:09,181
Um, but now everybody has one of those, right?

463
00:28:09,181 --> 00:28:10,561
Can you imagine driving down

464
00:28:10,576 --> 00:28:13,636
So what to like, look, look at the
traffic ahead, like that kind of

465
00:28:13,816 --> 00:28:18,391
you know, like you're driving
through the countryside and you
want a, you want an aerial shot.

466
00:28:18,391 --> 00:28:19,861
You just release the drone.

467
00:28:20,251 --> 00:28:23,461
You know, you probably see the
image on your dashboard in the car.

468
00:28:23,461 --> 00:28:24,211
It's kind of cool.

469
00:28:24,451 --> 00:28:27,511
It's like, what if little
13-year-old boys design cars?

470
00:28:28,231 --> 00:28:29,251
Well, you know,

471
00:28:29,311 --> 00:28:29,701
on top.

472
00:28:30,061 --> 00:28:31,741
I, I'm very happy with my lucid.

473
00:28:31,741 --> 00:28:35,458
It's, it's a really beautiful car and,
and apparently it's done really well.

474
00:28:35,488 --> 00:28:37,318
I mean, I think it's, it's, it's picking up

475
00:28:37,318 --> 00:28:38,428
a lot of Tesla.

476
00:28:38,578 --> 00:28:39,268
of them a month.

477
00:28:39,868 --> 00:28:40,468
orphans.

478
00:28:41,128 --> 00:28:41,714
Yeah.

479
00:28:41,938 --> 00:28:45,118
There, there is no beat,
there is no lucid without PIF.

480
00:28:45,658 --> 00:28:50,668
Lucid is entirely funded in a, as a
massive loss making company by the Saudis.

481
00:28:50,668 --> 00:28:52,198
Just so you know the trade you're making.

482
00:28:52,573 --> 00:28:53,923
Well, I don't, I don't, I don't

483
00:28:54,058 --> 00:28:54,388
Yeah.

484
00:28:54,388 --> 00:28:55,948
Did you get the model Khashoggi?

485
00:28:56,725 --> 00:28:56,965
It's a

486
00:28:57,010 --> 00:28:57,040
Oh,

487
00:28:57,205 --> 00:28:57,295
one.

488
00:28:58,180 --> 00:28:58,750
oh my God.

489
00:28:58,750 --> 00:28:58,990
we've

490
00:28:59,170 --> 00:28:59,740
Wow.

491
00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:01,060
the Khashoggi stuff.

492
00:29:01,090 --> 00:29:07,540
you wanna move, move up the kind of like
the, the production line for any product
you own and see, see how it makes you feel.

493
00:29:07,540 --> 00:29:07,815
I don't know,

494
00:29:08,324 --> 00:29:13,611
So one of the other, downstream
impacts is Apple is, is in a pickle.

495
00:29:14,149 --> 00:29:14,599
Right?

496
00:29:14,629 --> 00:29:15,049
I don't know.

497
00:29:15,439 --> 00:29:17,269
Can, can you unpack this a little bit?

498
00:29:17,269 --> 00:29:23,299
'cause I think Tim Cook's legacy
is really gonna be real interesting
with how this turns out because

499
00:29:23,509 --> 00:29:25,879
bring on our Apple specialist, Alex,

500
00:29:26,404 --> 00:29:30,529
he was the supply chain guy and it
seems like they missed on, on ai.

501
00:29:30,529 --> 00:29:33,469
And there's the, that's the
two big totems of this, of

502
00:29:33,619 --> 00:29:35,749
watch for a little blip in their sales.

503
00:29:35,749 --> 00:29:38,479
Last week and the week bef I
ran out and I bought an iPhone.

504
00:29:39,483 --> 00:29:40,293
I didn't wanna pay

505
00:29:40,473 --> 00:29:40,713
of,

506
00:29:40,773 --> 00:29:42,033
bucks more for my iPhone.

507
00:29:42,033 --> 00:29:42,093
I

508
00:29:42,093 --> 00:29:42,633
yeah.

509
00:29:43,181 --> 00:29:56,651
I mean, they're, they're scrambling and
apparently, even before the tariffs were
announced, a lot of kind of like, PC
manufacturers and Apple were trying to front
load imports of their most expensive models.

510
00:29:56,651 --> 00:29:59,981
So like a lot of high-end models
were brought into the country.

511
00:30:00,261 --> 00:30:01,703
cause they expected some tariffs.

512
00:30:01,823 --> 00:30:04,953
but at this rate, I think, apple is a bargaining.

513
00:30:05,913 --> 00:30:06,813
No, nobody did.

514
00:30:06,993 --> 00:30:07,563
Nobody did.

515
00:30:07,563 --> 00:30:09,273
That's why it wasn't factored into the market.

516
00:30:09,303 --> 00:30:10,923
Like, it's, it's nobody did.

517
00:30:11,353 --> 00:30:14,413
it was priced in, it was priced
in at like something way lower.

518
00:30:14,773 --> 00:30:16,603
No, I mean, Apple's in real trouble.

519
00:30:16,603 --> 00:30:20,233
They, they're, they're building some
of their stuff in, in, in India.

520
00:30:20,513 --> 00:30:22,853
you know, they try to shore some of these things.

521
00:30:22,853 --> 00:30:23,603
I think Apple.

522
00:30:24,154 --> 00:30:27,064
It could be existential if
they don't strike a deal.

523
00:30:27,374 --> 00:30:31,604
and I'm sure Tim Cook is spending a lot of time
at Mar-a-Lago right now to try to get this done.

524
00:30:32,004 --> 00:30:34,524
it used to be that, and it, there's
always been this risk, right?

525
00:30:34,524 --> 00:30:41,064
Like a big, like one of the biggest
geopolitical risks was, you know, if
China invaded Taiwan, for example, right?

526
00:30:41,424 --> 00:30:49,314
And that would, severely disrupt our
entire, you know, semiconductor industry
and computing and stuff like that.

527
00:30:49,314 --> 00:30:54,954
But Apple would be in real trouble
because it would probably, you
know, stop anything coming from

528
00:30:55,224 --> 00:30:59,289
Is it true, Alex, that you need tiny,
little, delicate adolescent fingers

529
00:30:59,289 --> 00:30:59,889
to do the final assembly

530
00:31:00,963 --> 00:31:01,263
Yeah, I

531
00:31:01,263 --> 00:31:03,363
think American fingers are a little too big

532
00:31:03,850 --> 00:31:04,263
Yeah,

533
00:31:04,278 --> 00:31:04,578
Did, did

534
00:31:04,578 --> 00:31:05,898
you see the, the Chinese

535
00:31:06,063 --> 00:31:07,623
can you fact check that Alex?

536
00:31:07,683 --> 00:31:10,083
Is that, is that, can you, am
I fact checking that with you?

537
00:31:10,083 --> 00:31:13,653
We probably can't do the assembly
just because of our anatomy.

538
00:31:14,058 --> 00:31:14,278
Yes.

539
00:31:14,428 --> 00:31:14,718
It's

540
00:31:14,833 --> 00:31:17,298
Well, did you see the Chinese
memes that were being created?

541
00:31:17,298 --> 00:31:23,480
The AI memes of like fat Americans trying
to screw in like, um, uh, Little iPhone

542
00:31:24,155 --> 00:31:28,196
Well, I mean,  Dave Chappelle had a good line
where he said, you know, I wanna wear Nikes.

543
00:31:28,196 --> 00:31:29,066
I don't wanna make 'em.

544
00:31:29,466 --> 00:31:30,004
Uh,

545
00:31:30,635 --> 00:31:37,002
If Americans designed iPhones or actually
executed them, they would look like those
things that you hang over top of a baby,

546
00:31:37,565 --> 00:31:37,835
yeah.

547
00:31:38,135 --> 00:31:38,825
the knobs.

548
00:31:39,373 --> 00:31:42,788
I mean, but that stuff isn't onshoring that stuff.

549
00:31:42,818 --> 00:31:46,328
I mean, I've heard different numbers,
like between five and 10 years.

550
00:31:46,638 --> 00:31:50,388
it would make the iPhone cost like
two and half thousand dollars.

551
00:31:50,568 --> 00:31:55,158
I mean, it's not, it's not a, it's not
a serious, it's not a serious plan.

552
00:31:55,158 --> 00:31:57,838
And at, at the same time,
like, what do you do, right?

553
00:31:57,838 --> 00:32:01,948
This, this, this trade war has,
even if it resolves itself.

554
00:32:02,078 --> 00:32:09,828
I think it's fundamentally changed the way
people look at, where they get their parts
from and, and what's reliable long term.

555
00:32:09,828 --> 00:32:20,138
And Tim Cook, you know, that's his legacy,
having set up this incredible, incredible
supply chain that meant that these new phones
would come out every year with no fault.

556
00:32:20,138 --> 00:32:21,158
People would deliver them.

557
00:32:21,158 --> 00:32:23,528
They wouldn't have delays, they
wouldn't have any stock issues.

558
00:32:23,528 --> 00:32:25,298
I mean, it's incredible what they set up.

559
00:32:25,728 --> 00:32:27,379
but turns out it's a house of carts.

560
00:32:27,449 --> 00:32:31,169
and a lot of people are very, very worried and.

561
00:32:32,009 --> 00:32:37,427
The Mag seven, which includes Nvidia and Apple,
also has been holding up the stock market, right?

562
00:32:37,427 --> 00:32:40,457
It's like big chunks of people's portfolios.

563
00:32:40,457 --> 00:32:42,497
And 4 0 1 ks is held up in these stocks.

564
00:32:42,947 --> 00:32:55,007
and I think what we're, the decline we're
seeing in Apple right now could feel like
a tiny blip compared to what happens if
these tariffs, like, if the tariffs war
kind of keeps escalating, it's at 145% now.

565
00:32:55,217 --> 00:32:57,617
I mean, that's essentially
no trade from China, right?

566
00:32:57,662 --> 00:32:59,817
mean we're not gonna get
a new season of severance?

567
00:33:00,231 --> 00:33:08,361
I mean, it means, means that it means, I I I
think that the billion that they're losing on
Apple TV will just seem like a, like small fry.

568
00:33:08,361 --> 00:33:11,061
They might just wanna spend entirely on services.

569
00:33:11,421 --> 00:33:13,221
I mean, it could mean like massive things, right?

570
00:33:13,221 --> 00:33:15,111
The delay of the next iPhone.

571
00:33:15,381 --> 00:33:19,251
It could mean, For me, it could mean like,
I don't get my switch two when it comes out.

572
00:33:19,251 --> 00:33:24,550
You know, Nintendo had announced a
switch, two pre-orders, were meant
to start yesterday or, or this week.

573
00:33:24,860 --> 00:33:29,470
they basically canceled their pre-orders for, for
the us the rest of the world got to pre-order.

574
00:33:29,470 --> 00:33:29,920
We didn't,

575
00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:37,640
I don't think it's crazy to, to think
there's a possibility that Apple and
Amazon spend less on the, the streaming.

576
00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:38,990
That's, that's losing money.

577
00:33:39,170 --> 00:33:39,380
What?

578
00:33:39,380 --> 00:33:39,620
Why?

579
00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:40,430
Why would that be

580
00:33:40,858 --> 00:33:48,845
be, because services is the only thing
that's like, if, if the hardware faucet
has to stop for a while, like investing
in services, the only thing you can do.

581
00:33:49,309 --> 00:33:52,159
I don't think Apple doesn't need to save money.

582
00:33:52,279 --> 00:33:54,379
I think they have, they're
sitting on plenty of cash.

583
00:33:54,379 --> 00:33:56,839
They can wait things out at the very least.

584
00:33:57,269 --> 00:34:00,359
if, if they have trouble supplying hardware.

585
00:34:00,959 --> 00:34:04,499
I, I would, I would see them
investing fully in software.

586
00:34:04,499 --> 00:34:08,879
You know, they're gonna release a new iOS
version, and fully on services, right?

587
00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:13,389
Services is also the, the, the part of the,
business that's growing the fast, fastest.

588
00:34:13,389 --> 00:34:15,489
So, I, I wouldn't see that happen.

589
00:34:15,489 --> 00:34:19,119
And I think right now they're looking
at the service port as a portfolio.

590
00:34:19,399 --> 00:34:22,609
they're not seemingly caring so much
about how much money they're losing.

591
00:34:22,609 --> 00:34:24,499
I mean, a billion dollars for Apple is nothing.

592
00:34:24,919 --> 00:34:33,289
Alex, do they have to bifurcate their
production so that they serve the,
they they sell iPhones in China.

593
00:34:33,349 --> 00:34:45,949
They, they serve the Chinese market
and the European market, and those not
affected by the American tariffs from a
Chinese production facility and try to
serve the rest of the world in other ways.

594
00:34:45,949 --> 00:34:46,879
How does it evolve?

595
00:34:47,350 --> 00:34:48,340
I have no idea.

596
00:34:48,416 --> 00:34:49,646
I mean it because it's, it's

597
00:34:49,817 --> 00:34:50,066
so, it.

598
00:34:50,096 --> 00:34:50,876
get Chamath on.

599
00:34:51,206 --> 00:34:52,376
We should get Shaath on.

600
00:34:52,826 --> 00:34:53,036
Yeah.

601
00:34:53,036 --> 00:34:54,746
I've never heard him say that that would be,

602
00:34:57,689 --> 00:35:04,379
anybody who thinks anybody who's friend
friends and takes Jason Ka seriously,
like we should kind of look at

603
00:35:04,589 --> 00:35:05,339
I'm coming around

604
00:35:05,339 --> 00:35:06,659
on Jason, to be honest with you.

605
00:35:06,839 --> 00:35:08,519
really, well,

606
00:35:08,716 --> 00:35:09,736
he laid me off.

607
00:35:09,736 --> 00:35:10,206
So there's that.

608
00:35:11,136 --> 00:35:12,066
but, but yeah, I don't know.

609
00:35:12,066 --> 00:35:12,516
I don't know.

610
00:35:12,516 --> 00:35:20,816
I think it's, it's, I think we're gonna see a
lot of, I think Apple for sure is going to be
used as a bargaining ship as, as this goes on,
and I don't know how long it can go on for.

611
00:35:21,056 --> 00:35:25,856
I mean, they're, they're, they're planning 2,
3, 4 years ahead for these next, next iPhones.

612
00:35:25,856 --> 00:35:27,446
And that must have put everything up.

613
00:35:27,626 --> 00:35:28,556
You know, everything.

614
00:35:28,936 --> 00:35:30,256
Everything's in turmoil right now.

615
00:35:30,608 --> 00:35:39,128
but also, I mean, the big, you know, the
card that, that China can play is just
taking, is just saying, all right, we we're
not respecting any intellectual property

616
00:35:39,293 --> 00:35:40,403
That's the big part.

617
00:35:40,463 --> 00:35:42,173
Everybody's terrified of that.

618
00:35:42,688 --> 00:35:42,838
you

619
00:35:43,087 --> 00:35:43,333
Sorry

620
00:35:43,423 --> 00:35:43,753
say

621
00:35:43,783 --> 00:35:44,473
before.

622
00:35:44,881 --> 00:35:45,061
no.

623
00:35:45,111 --> 00:35:45,211
They

624
00:35:45,211 --> 00:35:45,661
did.

625
00:35:45,781 --> 00:35:46,411
They did.

626
00:35:46,411 --> 00:35:46,621
And

627
00:35:46,621 --> 00:35:48,571
it, there's a semblance of them doing it.

628
00:35:48,571 --> 00:35:58,171
And, and they did enough so that large companies
like Apple felt comfortable working with,
Foxconn and things like that, knowing that
their intellectual property would be respected.

629
00:35:58,381 --> 00:36:05,791
Now, fine, you can still, you can go to China
and there's like a cafe somewhere called
Disneyland, and nobody's doing anything about it.

630
00:36:05,791 --> 00:36:08,641
And you can get a fake Nikes and stuff like that.

631
00:36:08,881 --> 00:36:14,011
There's a, there's a black, it's, but it's, it's
handled as a black market that changes, right?

632
00:36:14,011 --> 00:36:21,812
If you're saying, well, you're implying
those tariffs, now we're putting a freeze on
any IP, partnerships that we had in place.

633
00:36:22,412 --> 00:36:26,342
And that's, you know, okay, well now
we're gonna start selling iPhones in,

634
00:36:27,162 --> 00:36:34,097
Yeah, you have a night, you end up waking
up in, you know, cold shivers, realizing
that if you had to live in a, the country of

635
00:36:34,097 --> 00:36:40,457
America where everything was made in America,
it would be like living in Russia where
everything, where they have fake McDonald's,

636
00:36:40,592 --> 00:36:42,302
Russia, interestingly, no tariffs.

637
00:36:44,118 --> 00:36:45,198
I would've a lot of trade.

638
00:36:45,548 --> 00:36:49,358
the DTC industry is, is
gonna be, that's a tough one.

639
00:36:49,658 --> 00:36:53,498
any thoughts there, Troy, on second order impacts?

640
00:36:53,558 --> 00:36:55,508
Because, you know, a lot of these

641
00:36:55,793 --> 00:36:59,693
I think it's, I, I honestly think it's
catastrophic for, for a lot of them.

642
00:37:00,143 --> 00:37:07,973
you know, even people that design their own
products, I, you know, know several that design
their own products that are manufactured, you

643
00:37:07,973 --> 00:37:17,492
know, in China or elsewhere, you know, are looking
at huge price increases in, in a really, in a
business that just has really n narrow margins.

644
00:37:17,492 --> 00:37:23,762
So it's, it's pretty, it's gonna be,
it's gonna get pushed, you know, to, to
the consumer or they go outta business.

645
00:37:24,107 --> 00:37:27,887
when ad pricing Rose went because of

646
00:37:28,007 --> 00:37:28,637
different, like,

647
00:37:28,742 --> 00:37:31,442
That shut down away the DDTC companies, you know.

648
00:37:31,757 --> 00:37:41,728
now, now, I mean, you know, they're
already operating on thin margins and
they, there's all reliant, almost all
reliant on, Chinese supply chains.

649
00:37:41,788 --> 00:37:44,128
And, and that's because they
weren't really product companies.

650
00:37:44,128 --> 00:37:45,028
They didn't make the products.

651
00:37:45,028 --> 00:37:52,588
I mean, I guess that is sort of at the heart
of all of this is that even the companies
that we think of as like making and selling
products, they don't make the products.

652
00:37:52,738 --> 00:37:54,598
They, they just, they're branding.

653
00:37:54,718 --> 00:38:01,348
I mean, that's why I always think Authentic
Brands Group is like the ultimate company
of like late stage capitalism because.

654
00:38:01,663 --> 00:38:03,583
that, that actually leads me to a new place.

655
00:38:03,583 --> 00:38:06,883
If you're getting tired of this conversation,
which is what do you do with Van,

656
00:38:07,213 --> 00:38:08,773
what do you do with Vanity Fair?

657
00:38:09,493 --> 00:38:10,123
oh, what

658
00:38:10,123 --> 00:38:10,693
do you do?

659
00:38:11,053 --> 00:38:12,193
Oh, you absolutely

660
00:38:12,193 --> 00:38:14,623
you this on the WhatsApp and you said Harvest so

661
00:38:15,897 --> 00:38:17,277
well, you know what I mean?

662
00:38:17,277 --> 00:38:20,277
We can maybe have a more
intelligent conversation than that.

663
00:38:20,852 --> 00:38:24,447
Well, I was hoping for it on the
WhatsApp, so maybe we can have it now.

664
00:38:24,627 --> 00:38:33,902
I mean, we'll leave it to the nice people at
Puck to go on endlessly about it, the, um,
You know, John at Puck made this kind of,

665
00:38:34,142 --> 00:38:42,209
you know, he was reflecting I think pretty
honestly and courageously on, you know, the
Grayden Carter years versus, rodika Jones.

666
00:38:42,332 --> 00:38:46,892
you know, he said that, you know, being an editor
isn't what most people think, surprises people.

667
00:38:46,892 --> 00:38:51,482
You're not like, you know, pouring over
texts and assigning stories really.

668
00:38:52,487 --> 00:39:03,617
You know, the great insight from Grayden
per this is, I'll credit this to John, was,
you know, this simple idea that Hollywood
wanted to see themselves in the, you know, on
the pages of a, of a, you know, prestigious

669
00:39:03,617 --> 00:39:15,607
magazine that fashion companies wanted to see,
you know, the elite in their clothing on the
pages of magazines, and that if you did that
you could create an economic system where you

670
00:39:15,637 --> 00:39:26,897
funded, really sophisticated journalism and
storytelling that, you know, reinforced the,
the, the whole kind of enterprise with, you
know, a really, you know, high quality product.

671
00:39:27,461 --> 00:39:29,561
that all, you know, seems great.

672
00:39:29,561 --> 00:39:40,077
And it, and it, and it underneath of that was
The, the kind of certainty of the business
model and a structure where, relatively
speaking, you had far less competition.

673
00:39:40,657 --> 00:39:52,717
you had the sort of oligopoly oligopolistic
benefits of being a scaled print,
enterprise, couple hundred million in
revenue, and you could kind of just
invest to keep that, that engine going.

674
00:39:53,317 --> 00:40:02,677
And I think that for the new editor,
you, you know, media brands take a long,
long time to kill and they, they last,
you know, a lot longer than you think.

675
00:40:02,677 --> 00:40:04,447
You can make mistakes on covers.

676
00:40:04,447 --> 00:40:06,667
You can, you know, go through crisis.

677
00:40:06,667 --> 00:40:09,757
You know, you can, you can navigate bad years.

678
00:40:09,757 --> 00:40:14,767
And to most people, vanity Fair is still that
idea of Vanity Fair and it lasts a long time.

679
00:40:15,367 --> 00:40:17,827
I think that the Vanity Fair.

680
00:40:18,127 --> 00:40:27,757
The barometer in some ways it becomes
the, the Oscars event, which is, you
know, a longstanding franchise of, of
that brand, the Vanity Fair Oscars party.

681
00:40:28,327 --> 00:40:35,137
And you know, I mean the, the sort
of smack talk this year was like,
people didn't really hang out there.

682
00:40:35,137 --> 00:40:38,552
They go there, they take a photo, then
they go to like, you know, a real party.

683
00:40:39,161 --> 00:40:49,841
you know, over time that institution just becomes
less and less important and you can get someone
in that's very business-minded, but creative.

684
00:40:49,841 --> 00:41:01,873
And I think that's the, I.  the sort of Venn
diagram you have to put together, which is
a great appreciation of where, you know,
culture is going and how you can play a
role in that uniquely as a media brand.

685
00:41:02,293 --> 00:41:06,973
And then, you know, how that becomes,
you know, a, a, a good business.

686
00:41:06,973 --> 00:41:10,603
And that, that's what a, I think a, a
great magazine editor was able to do.

687
00:41:11,175 --> 00:41:22,875
just think that now the business part
of it is so difficult because there is
no stability at all to the, you know, to
the underlying kind of medium mechanic.

688
00:41:22,875 --> 00:41:26,925
So what are you doing if you're Vanity Fair,
Brian, you're the editor of Vanity Fair.

689
00:41:26,925 --> 00:41:28,095
Maybe that's not your gig.

690
00:41:28,095 --> 00:41:31,065
You might wanna do some, some
other type of publication.

691
00:41:31,065 --> 00:41:35,886
But let's say it was, You're trying to figure
out how am I relevant, if not in print?

692
00:41:36,246 --> 00:41:42,696
Am I making more, you know, short
celebrity interview videos on YouTube,
which I don't make any money from?

693
00:41:43,086 --> 00:41:46,536
Am I gonna take that game to TikTok and Instagram?

694
00:41:46,896 --> 00:41:50,346
Am I doing, you know, fast-paced newsroom type?

695
00:41:50,646 --> 00:42:05,435
Am I in that game competing for, you know,
a, a, a seat, you know, at the table against,
well-funded kind of newspaper platforms like
the New York Times or Washington Post, or Wall
Street Journal or any of those, or The Atlantic.

696
00:42:05,885 --> 00:42:13,205
you know, what is, what role do you
play in this ecosystem such that you
have enough money to fund the kind of
journalism that's gonna make you famous?

697
00:42:13,710 --> 00:42:16,990
Well, you gotta figure out what
you're a front business for, right?

698
00:42:17,020 --> 00:42:19,150
Like the only path is to be a front business.

699
00:42:19,225 --> 00:42:19,990
I mean, you're either

700
00:42:20,080 --> 00:42:23,464
for, you mean like for
sunscreen and like, sunglasses?

701
00:42:23,944 --> 00:42:24,394
Uh.

702
00:42:24,904 --> 00:42:30,144
it could be for, you know, cl
classy, classy harvesting of the ip,

703
00:42:30,559 --> 00:42:31,429
Well, that's what I'm saying.

704
00:42:31,489 --> 00:42:33,799
That's, I would harvest that IP all day long.

705
00:42:34,311 --> 00:42:34,491
Yeah.

706
00:42:34,491 --> 00:42:35,931
That's the classy version.

707
00:42:36,036 --> 00:42:36,756
would love that.

708
00:42:36,846 --> 00:42:38,736
That's classy harvesting the ip.

709
00:42:39,259 --> 00:42:40,887
Harnessing IP is classy.

710
00:42:42,336 --> 00:42:42,786
Wow.

711
00:42:43,115 --> 00:42:43,595
Yeah.

712
00:42:43,625 --> 00:42:44,795
it's better than, it's better.

713
00:42:44,945 --> 00:42:45,605
into media.

714
00:42:46,025 --> 00:42:48,509
It's better than the SEO glue factory, right?

715
00:42:48,575 --> 00:42:48,965
It's

716
00:42:48,965 --> 00:42:49,355
better than

717
00:42:49,955 --> 00:42:51,425
the IP glue factory is

718
00:42:51,425 --> 00:42:52,205
what it is, Brian.

719
00:42:52,235 --> 00:42:52,385
okay.

720
00:42:52,385 --> 00:42:52,745
What?

721
00:42:53,495 --> 00:42:53,795
I don't know.

722
00:42:53,795 --> 00:42:54,575
It's not that I,

723
00:42:55,355 --> 00:42:56,075
What do you even, what

724
00:42:56,165 --> 00:42:57,635
do you even do with Vanity Fair?

725
00:42:57,785 --> 00:42:58,295
I'm sorry.

726
00:42:58,415 --> 00:42:59,435
That's why I'm asking.

727
00:42:59,495 --> 00:42:59,765
Well

728
00:42:59,765 --> 00:43:02,225
so, so, so they, so they have,

729
00:43:02,525 --> 00:43:14,285
they're searching now for a global
editorial director and, and what they
describe it as, you know, this position
develops strategies to drive editorial
excellence, audience growth, and revenue.

730
00:43:14,315 --> 00:43:19,595
It's a public facing role, and you're
representing the title to the industry.

731
00:43:19,625 --> 00:43:23,945
I mean, it's like a biz dev role
as much as it is an editorial role.

732
00:43:23,945 --> 00:43:25,415
You're not going, you're not doing line

733
00:43:25,530 --> 00:43:26,615
I I feel

734
00:43:26,615 --> 00:43:27,725
like Vanity Fair.

735
00:43:27,785 --> 00:43:32,770
Vanity Fair and, and maybe that's
kind of my, my oblique view of it.

736
00:43:32,890 --> 00:43:40,625
I, I think Vanity Fair's kind of brand power
is so tied to the concept of celebrity.

737
00:43:41,225 --> 00:43:46,595
and that has been fundamentally changed,
whereas a celebrities have changed.

738
00:43:46,595 --> 00:43:51,845
You know, I just heard somebody call George
Cloy a blister, and at first I was like, what?

739
00:43:51,845 --> 00:43:53,165
And then I, yeah, for sure.

740
00:43:53,165 --> 00:43:59,165
Like these celebrities that used to attract
so much attention and just, you could,

741
00:43:59,435 --> 00:43:59,716
you know.

742
00:44:00,010 --> 00:44:00,215
fair.

743
00:44:00,215 --> 00:44:01,115
That's not fair.

744
00:44:01,340 --> 00:44:02,570
Hang on, let me finish.

745
00:44:02,660 --> 00:44:10,520
I mean, I, I, I don't, I, they, you know, you
used to be able to put, you know, a name at the
top of a movie poster and attract an audience.

746
00:44:10,870 --> 00:44:25,052
and I think now celebrity when it is Alister,
like if it's a Chalamet or if it's a Pedro
Pascal, which are really true, a-listers, you
know, they'll do the Vanity Fair, cover shoot
and stuff like that, but it's all peripheral.

747
00:44:25,052 --> 00:44:31,952
Most of that attention, most of their
audience connection is like, you know, we
talked about that before, is participatory.

748
00:44:31,952 --> 00:44:38,972
And I think this kind of like non-participatory
relationship with celebrities is, is gone.

749
00:44:39,272 --> 00:44:49,952
And those brands that used to basically
just act as a vehicle for that, for, for
like connecting with a celebrity within the
confines of that brand, are no longer relevant.

750
00:44:49,952 --> 00:44:54,752
And I think the, I don't know if the
brand stands for anything, so I, I,
I don't know what I'd do with it.

751
00:44:55,168 --> 00:44:55,288
that

752
00:44:55,368 --> 00:44:58,858
Maybe you'd make it be really like a really cool.

753
00:44:59,353 --> 00:45:15,163
Game where you like go from the Vanity Fair Oscar
party where you, you do like, you get, see, you
get points for, you know, engaging with paparazzi
and you know, then you go to the buffet and
get the free sushi and you get points for that.

754
00:45:15,463 --> 00:45:19,843
And you see if you can do it all
and have a couple, I mean, there's a
game in that, Alex, you could make.

755
00:45:20,113 --> 00:45:20,403
Sure.

756
00:45:20,513 --> 00:45:20,803
Yeah.

757
00:45:20,808 --> 00:45:21,088
Yeah.

758
00:45:21,208 --> 00:45:26,582
There's, uh, yeah, there's a free, free mobile
game, like a Kardashian mobile game where you,

759
00:45:27,028 --> 00:45:27,863
There you go.

760
00:45:27,923 --> 00:45:30,083
We're harvesting the IP as we speak.

761
00:45:31,088 --> 00:45:31,613
yeah,  yeah,

762
00:45:31,883 --> 00:45:32,183
This is media.

763
00:45:32,193 --> 00:45:32,483
yeah.

764
00:45:32,723 --> 00:45:36,023
How would you, Brian just outta
you got a good mind for this.

765
00:45:36,023 --> 00:45:44,213
How would you harvest that IP, sweaters or
jackets or what would you I was thinking
something with high, high margin like sunscreen

766
00:45:44,751 --> 00:45:51,319
You know what I, this is what I was asking you
about fashion, the fashion credit system, like
there needs to be an updated version of this.

767
00:45:51,319 --> 00:45:56,119
'cause I don't think a lot of people
understand like the role of fashion credits.

768
00:45:56,119 --> 00:46:00,109
Can you explain like what role that
fashion credits have played in these

769
00:46:00,319 --> 00:46:16,759
Yeah, there was a kind of invisible balance
sheet with the luxury fashion industry
where you would, feature them in the
edit of a prestigious magazine, like a
Bazaar, an Al, or Vogue or Vanity Fair.

770
00:46:17,259 --> 00:46:20,619
and for that, you would essentially get credits.

771
00:46:21,219 --> 00:46:27,399
And those credits were something
that the companies, the, you know,
that the brands kept track of.

772
00:46:27,729 --> 00:46:35,379
And so the Ultimate Credit is a star
on the cover of Vogue, dressed in
Sailor or something like that, right?

773
00:46:35,379 --> 00:46:44,109
Like you, you, you want, and, and those
credits, you pay those off in, in booked
advertising in the pages of the magazine.

774
00:46:44,469 --> 00:46:45,399
And that was the system.

775
00:46:45,819 --> 00:46:48,909
You didn't monetize them directly,
you monetized them indirectly.

776
00:46:49,401 --> 00:46:51,406
So what's the modern version of that?

777
00:46:51,952 --> 00:46:54,442
I mean, it's a little sketchy, but
that means it's like it's a good

778
00:46:54,607 --> 00:46:54,847
It's,

779
00:46:54,990 --> 00:46:55,372
so.

780
00:46:55,627 --> 00:46:56,017
I don't know.

781
00:46:56,017 --> 00:46:57,602
It's influencers getting free.

782
00:46:57,632 --> 00:46:57,922
Shit.

783
00:46:58,330 --> 00:47:02,879
I'm gonna turn us away from, from
Ty talking about the dead brand.

784
00:47:03,349 --> 00:47:03,942
It's not  dead.

785
00:47:04,639 --> 00:47:06,439
You're pulling, you're, you're, you're, you're

786
00:47:06,439 --> 00:47:07,669
pulling a Troy here.

787
00:47:07,729 --> 00:47:08,989
You're putting your foot down.

788
00:47:09,289 --> 00:47:09,529
You're

789
00:47:09,529 --> 00:47:12,349
changing, you're like, Brian,
you're not doing your job.

790
00:47:12,349 --> 00:47:12,799
Let's go.

791
00:47:13,474 --> 00:47:17,524
it's like, yeah, but how are we
gonna make Humphrey Bogar cool again?

792
00:47:18,094 --> 00:47:20,494
I'm like, he was cool and now he's not.

793
00:47:20,584 --> 00:47:21,064
That's fine.

794
00:47:21,194 --> 00:47:23,119
All right, so we won't talk about quartz.

795
00:47:23,119 --> 00:47:23,629
Fine.

796
00:47:23,811 --> 00:47:30,561
uh, well now I did wanna talk about maybe
Quartz, but, but dig, just relaunched,
just relaunched breaking news, right?

797
00:47:30,831 --> 00:47:33,801
and they, they launched with early
access, and here's the thing, they did.

798
00:47:33,981 --> 00:47:36,411
Early access is $5.

799
00:47:37,011 --> 00:47:39,021
You can get early access, but you have to pay.

800
00:47:39,141 --> 00:47:40,161
And it's genius.

801
00:47:40,161 --> 00:47:48,511
I think it's absolutely the right thing
to do, it's a way of, of doing kind of
like moderation and bringing in people
who are serious about the product.

802
00:47:48,511 --> 00:47:53,731
But it's gonna be interesting to see if a,
a brand like, you know, like Dig has, has

803
00:47:53,926 --> 00:47:56,776
How, how did I just, I just
gave 'em my email address.

804
00:47:56,776 --> 00:47:57,226
Alex, how?

805
00:47:57,226 --> 00:47:58,036
Where did they charge me?

806
00:47:58,036 --> 00:47:58,876
The $5?

807
00:47:59,041 --> 00:48:02,636
I think when you get the
invite, entry is, is at $5.

808
00:48:02,965 --> 00:48:03,255
Okay.

809
00:48:03,760 --> 00:48:08,935
Is this, is this like a, an extensible
strategy to give people early access for $5?

810
00:48:09,150 --> 00:48:14,935
I, I think it's a great strategy because
what it does is it fo it, it kind of like it
stops your servers from getting overloaded.

811
00:48:15,175 --> 00:48:19,765
It, it's a filtering mechanism that
people that come in are just like
more committed to what they're about

812
00:48:19,765 --> 00:48:20,185
to do.

813
00:48:20,395 --> 00:48:22,495
It funds some of the beginning of the product.

814
00:48:22,495 --> 00:48:23,515
It shows interest.

815
00:48:23,755 --> 00:48:25,225
It shows like true interest, right?

816
00:48:25,225 --> 00:48:35,155
Like, whoa, shit, 10, 10,000 people fa paid five
thou, $5 each Is, is a way better signal of future
success than a hundred thousand people paid zero.

817
00:48:35,470 --> 00:48:37,030
What do you expect from this product?

818
00:48:37,030 --> 00:48:39,430
Alex, do you have any insight
into what it's gonna be?

819
00:48:40,315 --> 00:48:45,609
Yeah, I mean, I think they're trying to, mean,
they're not trying to compete directly with dig.

820
00:48:45,609 --> 00:48:46,389
They've talked about

821
00:48:46,419 --> 00:48:47,384
like the things that they're

822
00:48:47,679 --> 00:49:00,479
with, sorry, with Reddit, I think some of the,
of the thing that they want to do, which, which
Reddit stopped becoming, is really, recreate
this homepage of the internet thing, like used
to go, and I still do that with Reddit somehow.

823
00:49:00,479 --> 00:49:05,279
But you used to go to these pages, like dig and
see, oh, what's happening on the internet today?

824
00:49:05,579 --> 00:49:09,419
And using ai, of course, as part of that.

825
00:49:09,549 --> 00:49:11,349
so we, I don't know exactly what it looks like.

826
00:49:11,349 --> 00:49:12,219
I haven't tested it out

827
00:49:12,374 --> 00:49:14,769
I mean, it makes sense in that like you.

828
00:49:15,429 --> 00:49:21,369
You have to have, you can't go on
social media platforms in order to like
find like links to interesting stuff.

829
00:49:21,519 --> 00:49:27,969
Like they've deprioritize it and there needs
to be somewhere to go to find interesting.

830
00:49:28,329 --> 00:49:28,569
Cool.

831
00:49:28,569 --> 00:49:28,989
Shit.

832
00:49:29,297 --> 00:49:36,475
Yeah, I mean, I, I find it like, I, I like finding
interesting, cool shit on the internet, but the,
the, the thing is that social me, yeah, I like

833
00:49:36,475 --> 00:49:37,405
surfing the, I like

834
00:49:37,435 --> 00:49:37,795
the net.

835
00:49:37,795 --> 00:49:39,055
Alex, why can't

836
00:49:39,115 --> 00:49:39,595
the web.

837
00:49:39,864 --> 00:49:40,500
be the new dick?

838
00:49:40,500 --> 00:49:40,780
Alex?

839
00:49:42,505 --> 00:49:42,881
yeah.

840
00:49:43,015 --> 00:49:43,860
Now that we're talking about

841
00:49:43,860 --> 00:49:44,220
modern,

842
00:49:44,365 --> 00:49:45,055
we're talking,

843
00:49:45,140 --> 00:49:46,465
about a place to go to surf

844
00:49:46,855 --> 00:49:59,785
but you know, maybe it is true like that these,
I I think part of these brands that I don't think
can be resuscitated are maybe too connected to a
cultural phenomenon that is changing or dying out.

845
00:49:59,845 --> 00:50:12,825
Like I do think so, you know, vanity Fair
too, connected to this type of like very,
unapproachable, high-end celebrity or
something like Dig is more trying to sell,
solve something and providing some utility.

846
00:50:12,825 --> 00:50:15,105
So Dig has more of a chance of surviving.

847
00:50:15,105 --> 00:50:17,835
I mean, another one that's doing pretty
well is our friends at the Yahoo.

848
00:50:18,646 --> 00:50:19,936
Who would've thunk that?

849
00:50:19,996 --> 00:50:25,006
Like you could, you know, turn Yahoo
around, but didn't they do that?

850
00:50:25,602 --> 00:50:26,172
Yahoo

851
00:50:26,172 --> 00:50:27,492
is taken seriously today.

852
00:50:27,972 --> 00:50:28,972
Define turnaround.

853
00:50:29,742 --> 00:50:32,112
I, I, I feel, I feel like Yahoo.

854
00:50:32,462 --> 00:50:36,042
Yahoo was, was being seen
as a dying assets, asset.

855
00:50:36,042 --> 00:50:43,302
People were, you know, you know, kind of landing
on it by mistake or kind of using it reflexively.

856
00:50:43,302 --> 00:50:47,232
And I, I feel that it's like a,
a much healthier business today

857
00:50:47,997 --> 00:50:48,267
Hmm.

858
00:50:48,372 --> 00:50:49,482
see the brand differently.

859
00:50:49,970 --> 00:50:50,360
Nice.

860
00:50:50,690 --> 00:50:51,530
I'm happy about that.

861
00:50:51,755 --> 00:50:52,085
Yeah.

862
00:50:52,295 --> 00:50:55,655
I mean, you know, it's, it's, I don't
have, I don't have all the data.

863
00:50:55,655 --> 00:50:55,775
They're

864
00:50:55,865 --> 00:50:58,925
I mean, I think that economic, I think
it's doing very well financially.

865
00:50:59,585 --> 00:51:01,625
I think that Yahoo Finance is better than it was.

866
00:51:01,625 --> 00:51:03,935
I think Yahoo Sports is way better than it was.

867
00:51:04,517 --> 00:51:07,931
you know, I think that, that your friend
Matt's done a nice job on the homepage.

868
00:51:08,294 --> 00:51:16,345
you know, the pressure on Yahoo broadly is
that that type of information, you know,
provisioning on a page is under pressure.

869
00:51:16,745 --> 00:51:18,095
Where does all the traffic come from?

870
00:51:18,115 --> 00:51:19,055
So people just have

871
00:51:19,875 --> 00:51:22,275
It's much more direct than most properties, Brian.

872
00:51:22,875 --> 00:51:28,795
a lot of it comes from, it's kind of its
own ecosystem because people, use mail.

873
00:51:29,005 --> 00:51:32,905
People track their portfolios on Yahoo Finance.

874
00:51:32,905 --> 00:51:34,615
People play Yahoo

875
00:51:34,615 --> 00:51:35,035
Fantasy

876
00:51:35,035 --> 00:51:36,505
Sports, by the way.

877
00:51:36,535 --> 00:51:43,536
All of them are in, are, you know, this
notion that we, we, we brought up in
the last, People versus algorithms.

878
00:51:43,596 --> 00:51:45,036
Weak weekender, what is it?

879
00:51:45,036 --> 00:51:45,816
Is it weak weekender?

880
00:51:46,296 --> 00:51:46,771
Could be.

881
00:51:46,956 --> 00:51:47,466
Yeah.

882
00:51:47,526 --> 00:51:48,186
Weekend.

883
00:51:48,706 --> 00:51:55,006
which is ultimately the internet demands
that we, that that media makes room for us.

884
00:51:55,516 --> 00:51:57,196
You gotta participate, right?

885
00:51:57,196 --> 00:52:05,851
Like fantasy sports, participate, track
my portfolio, participate, you know,
use my, you know, like, it's just like
the internet's an interactive place.

886
00:52:06,211 --> 00:52:06,571
Yeah,

887
00:52:06,691 --> 00:52:07,381
and I think,

888
00:52:07,531 --> 00:52:08,461
and read articles.

889
00:52:08,941 --> 00:52:15,241
I mean, I think it's the last,
it's the last, you know, remember
portals, it's the last great portal.

890
00:52:15,241 --> 00:52:20,611
It still provides a ton of utility,
but lots of people use Yahoo Mail.

891
00:52:20,911 --> 00:52:21,151
Yes.

892
00:52:21,301 --> 00:52:27,151
Lots of people, you know, instinctively go
to Yahoo Weather or Yahoo Finance to see
that the thing, it's, it's, it's like a

893
00:52:27,333 --> 00:52:27,631
straight

894
00:52:27,856 --> 00:52:28,651
is growing

895
00:52:29,161 --> 00:52:29,731
product.

896
00:52:29,761 --> 00:52:31,051
very important metric.

897
00:52:31,501 --> 00:52:32,221
That's crazy.

898
00:52:32,221 --> 00:52:32,521
Right.

899
00:52:32,521 --> 00:52:32,870
Like,

900
00:52:32,870 --> 00:52:33,753
People are opening

901
00:52:33,753 --> 00:52:34,983
new email.

902
00:52:35,013 --> 00:52:38,013
Like I, I, I guess they're
getting email for the first time.

903
00:52:38,223 --> 00:52:40,803
Does someone like I, I don't
know what would happen for

904
00:52:40,863 --> 00:52:41,973
I mean, I think it's,

905
00:52:41,973 --> 00:52:42,393
account.

906
00:52:42,818 --> 00:52:45,938
would a kid, a kid who needs email,
go to Yahoo and get an email?

907
00:52:45,998 --> 00:52:48,698
Hey grandma, you should get on
email, go to Yahoo and get an email.

908
00:52:49,092 --> 00:52:51,238
I have a Hotmail too still.

909
00:52:51,328 --> 00:52:54,328
you want a second email account
to track your e-commerce activity?

910
00:52:54,538 --> 00:52:55,648
Get a Yahoo email account.

911
00:52:55,858 --> 00:52:56,008
Yeah.

912
00:52:56,038 --> 00:52:57,358
I got a place for receipts.

913
00:52:57,674 --> 00:53:04,644
so I mean, I think if you build in utility,
a lot of a, a lot of these things are, are,
could potentially be good turnaround stories.

914
00:53:04,704 --> 00:53:07,464
I think Yahoo is, is turning out
to be good turnaround stories.

915
00:53:07,464 --> 00:53:08,034
I think dig

916
00:53:08,124 --> 00:53:12,654
A OL still has more EBITDA than
any other company in digital media.

917
00:53:13,104 --> 00:53:14,154
So there's that too,

918
00:53:15,024 --> 00:53:15,174
Yeah.

919
00:53:15,174 --> 00:53:16,044
A OL was,

920
00:53:16,104 --> 00:53:16,464
you know

921
00:53:16,464 --> 00:53:17,484
what it says, but

922
00:53:17,514 --> 00:53:17,724
it

923
00:53:17,724 --> 00:53:26,244
says that it there, you know when you had your
moment and if you were able to monetize that
with subscriptions, a OL was TikTok for grandma.

924
00:53:26,691 --> 00:53:27,231
It's great.

925
00:53:27,291 --> 00:53:29,091
Let's talk AI for a little bit at the end.

926
00:53:29,211 --> 00:53:31,311
Did you see Toby Luka?

927
00:53:31,371 --> 00:53:32,841
Am I pronouncing that correctly?

928
00:53:33,291 --> 00:53:37,967
He's got an, he came out with a
memo, a quote unquote leaked memo.

929
00:53:37,997 --> 00:53:38,657
I always think these

930
00:53:38,852 --> 00:53:41,970
He's the, is he the king of
Silicon Valley, north Ottawa?

931
00:53:42,438 --> 00:53:43,188
he could be,

932
00:53:43,727 --> 00:53:44,207
Toby.

933
00:53:44,674 --> 00:53:45,034
I know

934
00:53:45,079 --> 00:53:46,369
personally, myself.

935
00:53:46,529 --> 00:53:47,144
Uh,

936
00:53:47,294 --> 00:53:54,494
did you read, so basically the memo
was, was, you know, bit of a, like a
manifesto te telling everyone that.

937
00:53:55,064 --> 00:53:56,414
AI is the starting point.

938
00:53:56,414 --> 00:54:06,524
It's a baseline expectation to be using
AI in every single role, which I think is
like, it's an obvious one, but I I, it,
it's probably necessary at this point.

939
00:54:06,884 --> 00:54:14,024
I just notice myself, like, I use chat
GBT not just every day, but all the time.

940
00:54:14,354 --> 00:54:16,004
I've, I've narrowed it down.

941
00:54:16,334 --> 00:54:17,234
Uh, Gemini?

942
00:54:17,234 --> 00:54:17,804
Nah.

943
00:54:18,134 --> 00:54:19,784
The Anthropic and Claude.

944
00:54:19,784 --> 00:54:22,784
No, I just, I've just decided
to go all in on, on Chachi.

945
00:54:22,784 --> 00:54:22,844
Bte.

946
00:54:22,904 --> 00:54:23,864
don't want more than one.

947
00:54:23,864 --> 00:54:24,284
Do we?

948
00:54:24,344 --> 00:54:25,184
We just want one.

949
00:54:25,604 --> 00:54:28,394
I think Chachi, I think OpenAI is
gonna run away with this thing.

950
00:54:28,394 --> 00:54:28,754
I think they

951
00:54:28,754 --> 00:54:29,264
I mean, they,

952
00:54:29,264 --> 00:54:29,714
They

953
00:54:29,804 --> 00:54:30,404
product.

954
00:54:30,584 --> 00:54:35,627
they are, but at the same time, I think
it's going to be like a browser and
it's gonna be commoditized, but like,

955
00:54:35,657 --> 00:54:35,927
Oh, wait, wait.

956
00:54:35,927 --> 00:54:37,157
We gotta go back to, to,

957
00:54:37,187 --> 00:54:40,907
But, but, but this is a real testament
to the, you know, power of this.

958
00:54:40,907 --> 00:54:44,627
'cause Brian doesn't, Brian
is like high utility boy,

959
00:54:44,987 --> 00:54:45,407
yeah.

960
00:54:45,472 --> 00:54:45,792
does that

961
00:54:45,792 --> 00:54:46,032
mean?

962
00:54:46,217 --> 00:54:48,077
He doesn't, romance technology like

963
00:54:48,197 --> 00:54:48,621
Hey guys.

964
00:54:48,677 --> 00:54:57,407
I mean, I'm, I'm impressed because I think
like I am, I'm a person that like will force
myself to use the technology until it becomes
something that clicks for me or doesn't.

965
00:54:57,407 --> 00:54:57,707
Right.

966
00:54:57,977 --> 00:55:00,497
But I know that I, but for example,

967
00:55:00,887 --> 00:55:01,637
exactly,

968
00:55:02,327 --> 00:55:07,577
and for example, you guys have been
trying to get you guys to buy a new
camera for like the last six months.

969
00:55:07,577 --> 00:55:11,627
And, and, and here we are still
looking like we're recording often

970
00:55:11,987 --> 00:55:13,157
do you use a water pick?

971
00:55:13,659 --> 00:55:21,759
I have something with a custom
mouthpiece that's molded to my mouth,
that shoots a jet in seven seconds as a
professional cleaning in my own bathroom.

972
00:55:22,629 --> 00:55:23,139
That's right.

973
00:55:23,688 --> 00:55:28,635
so, so I, I, I, I kind of, sent a
note to Toby after that and said
like, I completely agreed with it.

974
00:55:28,755 --> 00:55:36,304
and I think it turns out from what I'm
hearing that internally at, at, Shopify, I.
I don't think it created as much of a ruckus.

975
00:55:36,304 --> 00:55:38,224
I think people took it pretty naturally.

976
00:55:38,584 --> 00:55:41,584
and I heard that from multiple places externally.

977
00:55:41,584 --> 00:55:55,379
I think, I, I, it's absolutely the right thing
to do and maybe, you know, sometimes that's
controversial to say, but if you don't incentivize
people to try new, new technologies, that stuff
is going to be, it's just gonna move slower.

978
00:55:55,619 --> 00:55:55,859
Right.

979
00:55:55,859 --> 00:56:02,692
I, I, in the beginning of the pc, you know,
the, the, the, the kind of the release of these,
like personal computers, like the corporations

980
00:56:02,692 --> 00:56:09,472
were really slow to integrate that into their
co, into the companies because people are
naturally not inclined to try new things.

981
00:56:10,057 --> 00:56:10,170
You

982
00:56:10,177 --> 00:56:17,737
know what struck me, Alex, is this idea, simple
idea in that memo that it's like you send an,
I was just in a meeting where we did this.

983
00:56:17,737 --> 00:56:19,807
It's like, we need to build this competency.

984
00:56:19,807 --> 00:56:21,607
Here's all the people we need to hire.

985
00:56:21,937 --> 00:56:23,857
You know, there's this role, this role, this role.

986
00:56:23,857 --> 00:56:34,237
And you know, and you know now in the
future when someone sends a, you know,
job opening request to hr or the automated
response sends them back, have you tried ai?

987
00:56:34,755 --> 00:56:35,205
Yes.

988
00:56:35,265 --> 00:56:38,445
And sometimes it'll be, and
sometimes it'll be ridiculous.

989
00:56:38,755 --> 00:56:43,645
and, and you say, well, of course it won't
work with ai, but you just need to get
people to think about it for a second.

990
00:56:43,735 --> 00:56:44,025
Yeah.

991
00:56:44,025 --> 00:56:47,770
Like, we need a tariff policy
analyst from the White House.

992
00:56:47,770 --> 00:56:48,790
They opened up a job record.

993
00:56:48,790 --> 00:56:49,540
No, just use ai.

994
00:56:50,905 --> 00:56:51,625
well this is what he said.

995
00:56:51,625 --> 00:56:59,365
He said before, asking for more headcount
and resources, teams must demonstrate why
they cannot get what they want done using ai.

996
00:56:59,620 --> 00:57:00,460
That's big man.

997
00:57:00,775 --> 00:57:01,405
look like if

998
00:57:01,585 --> 00:57:08,155
I'm telling you, that's the single biggest
thing in that memo that's gonna influence
everyone in an in, in, in a corporate role.

999
00:57:08,874 --> 00:57:11,279
I, and I think it's, it's
one of those things where.

1000
00:57:11,879 --> 00:57:14,309
It'll also, I think it's
gonna be mimicked by everyone.

1001
00:57:14,309 --> 00:57:18,959
And I, I don't, I think it would be a
mistake to see it like, well, you're just
asking us to replace people with the eye.

1002
00:57:18,959 --> 00:57:22,139
No, we are asking everyone to
think through their process.

1003
00:57:22,319 --> 00:57:27,389
It's so, so, you know, I've done a lot
of consulting in my life and I've, I've
done, I've worked with really large teams.

1004
00:57:27,599 --> 00:57:33,299
You'll work, walk into these teams and
you look at their tooling and their
processes and how they do things.

1005
00:57:33,569 --> 00:57:46,559
Oh yeah, no, that stuff is like, Bob just copy
and paste it into a spreadsheet and then Frank
pulls it out and you're like, wait, we could spend
a day fixing this and saving hours every week
for the rest, rest of our working, lives here.

1006
00:57:46,829 --> 00:57:47,849
And we're not doing that.

1007
00:57:47,849 --> 00:57:52,889
And so just to push people to say, Hey,
before you do this, think about it.

1008
00:57:52,889 --> 00:57:53,879
Just think about it.

1009
00:57:54,149 --> 00:57:59,909
I think it's, it's, it's, it's great and
it's great in, in my, in personal life, like,
okay, I'm doing this thing over and over.

1010
00:58:00,179 --> 00:58:02,429
Can chat, GPT, can ai, can a tool

1011
00:58:02,609 --> 00:58:03,239
improve it?

1012
00:58:03,389 --> 00:58:03,719
It's,

1013
00:58:03,794 --> 00:58:06,824
think the Morrissey anecdote here is, is powerful.

1014
00:58:07,334 --> 00:58:12,194
And Brian, I, I, I'm not, I'm trolling a
little bit, but I'm gonna, I'm gonna do

1015
00:58:12,194 --> 00:58:12,404
it.

1016
00:58:12,434 --> 00:58:12,944
Um,

1017
00:58:13,129 --> 00:58:16,249
I'll do it really, really comp
in a complimentary fashion.

1018
00:58:16,849 --> 00:58:26,359
last week, and, and you know, Brian is a kind
of technology, he's not a Luddite, but he's
like, you're not, like, not technology forward.

1019
00:58:26,429 --> 00:58:26,582
And

1020
00:58:26,582 --> 00:58:28,552
we host a podcast with Nick Denton.

1021
00:58:29,152 --> 00:58:33,502
Brian sort of is, I would say 80% engaged.

1022
00:58:33,502 --> 00:58:34,432
He's, he's engaged.

1023
00:58:34,432 --> 00:58:35,212
You're engaged.

1024
00:58:35,272 --> 00:58:37,631
No, I, I mean, actually just,
pause on that for a second.

1025
00:58:37,901 --> 00:58:43,751
Brian was working really hard to get
that conversation back to media, and
Nick was not interested  in media.

1026
00:58:44,046 --> 00:58:44,986
not, not, at all.

1027
00:58:45,161 --> 00:58:45,491
That was

1028
00:58:45,516 --> 00:58:46,751
like, I haven't thought about it very much.

1029
00:58:46,991 --> 00:58:47,111
I

1030
00:58:47,111 --> 00:58:47,511
was like all

1031
00:58:47,561 --> 00:58:49,631
Brian once in a while would
go, so what about media?

1032
00:58:49,631 --> 00:58:51,701
And he would go, well fucking, you know,

1033
00:58:52,851 --> 00:58:53,141
Elon

1034
00:58:53,261 --> 00:58:54,971
is he movie like Bulgaria or whatever?

1035
00:58:55,001 --> 00:58:55,391
Yeah,

1036
00:58:55,421 --> 00:58:56,261
right, right.

1037
00:58:56,651 --> 00:58:57,161
Hungry.

1038
00:58:57,258 --> 00:59:09,648
but anyway, so Brian gets off the podcast
and he feeds the transcript into his ais,
Alex, and then he writes literally like.

1039
00:59:10,938 --> 00:59:14,088
A beautiful piece of copy, like beautiful.

1040
00:59:14,448 --> 00:59:18,453
I would encourage everyone to read it about
the interview, and I know it, I loved it.

1041
00:59:18,458 --> 00:59:22,278
It brought me to tears and,
and he did it all in two hours.

1042
00:59:22,878 --> 00:59:25,638
Okay, so this is like a kind of like ft

1043
00:59:25,638 --> 00:59:38,508
Le this is like an FT level, you know,
$20,000 piece and a podcast and all of
the related activities to do all of that
done in like four hours total for nothing.

1044
00:59:38,898 --> 00:59:43,878
And technology plays a huge role in, in
that, in that, in, in, in that being what it

1045
00:59:43,908 --> 00:59:48,558
Yeah, and I think, I think it's, it's exactly,
it's exactly the way you should use this stuff.

1046
00:59:48,558 --> 00:59:50,058
It's like an augmentation, right?

1047
00:59:50,058 --> 00:59:50,238
Like

1048
00:59:50,358 --> 00:59:51,873
Yeah, it's like assistive.

1049
00:59:51,903 --> 00:59:53,283
It's truly assistive.

1050
00:59:53,343 --> 00:59:55,353
'cause where I like, you
know, it's just like writing.

1051
00:59:55,353 --> 00:59:57,783
You put like, tk, tk, do you know tk

1052
00:59:57,843 --> 01:00:02,583
it means to come, uh, but like TK quote
and like they, and then it just like it.

1053
01:00:02,583 --> 01:00:03,333
It'll fill it in.

1054
01:00:03,333 --> 01:00:06,033
You just tell it to fill it in and then
you just go back and forth with it.

1055
01:00:06,033 --> 01:00:07,443
I think a lot of times people get

1056
01:00:07,683 --> 01:00:07,923
It

1057
01:00:08,223 --> 01:00:08,883
up with.

1058
01:00:08,943 --> 01:00:09,808
out of the transcript,

1059
01:00:09,963 --> 01:00:10,301
Yeah.

1060
01:00:10,623 --> 01:00:10,743
Yeah.

1061
01:00:10,773 --> 01:00:16,113
'cause I upload the transcript, it
has all of my writings and then like
I start it, it comes up with ideas.

1062
01:00:16,113 --> 01:00:22,383
And I think a lot of times people react
against AI because they look at it as a
replacement and it's an easy button and it's

1063
01:00:22,458 --> 01:00:25,608
But they, they, they react both,
both positively and negatively.

1064
01:00:25,608 --> 01:00:29,350
So, so, but I think that's been kind
of the, the, we're blindsided by that.

1065
01:00:29,350 --> 01:00:38,380
And I see a lot of people trying out,
well, I tried to get it to do this, replace
this entire thing I do, and it didn't
work, or, or, I'm terrified that it's
going to replace this entire thing I do.

1066
01:00:38,380 --> 01:00:43,000
Rather than saying, no, remember before you
had to turn your hand to screw the screw in.

1067
01:00:43,180 --> 01:00:51,100
Now you just press a button and the thing goes
in, like it's assistive and, and it's been
hard for people because it's so human in a way.

1068
01:00:51,100 --> 01:00:53,020
I think it's been hard for people to calibrate.

1069
01:00:53,620 --> 01:00:54,010
Right?

1070
01:00:54,100 --> 01:00:58,000
It's, I, I think it's because it's,
it's so human and and conversational.

1071
01:00:58,000 --> 01:01:00,340
I think people don't calibrate well around that.

1072
01:01:00,691 --> 01:01:13,328
I saw a, a video that, TikTok or something of
like a Gen Z person calling it the, the chat,
GPT Umen, because cha g Bt uses so much, so many

1073
01:01:13,388 --> 01:01:13,868
hate it.

1074
01:01:14,438 --> 01:01:14,738
Yeah.

1075
01:01:15,038 --> 01:01:15,248
And

1076
01:01:15,248 --> 01:01:18,848
it doesn't put sp, I put spaces
between mine, so I go through it

1077
01:01:18,893 --> 01:01:20,183
know it.

1078
01:01:21,113 --> 01:01:28,853
So that's the, like tell if you see
a lot of M dashes without spaces
that might be like AI created.

1079
01:01:29,093 --> 01:01:34,883
But I also feel like people, I've talked
with a lot of, you know, journalists
about this and they view it as cheating.

1080
01:01:35,483 --> 01:01:35,693
Like,

1081
01:01:35,738 --> 01:01:36,278
mean, that's,

1082
01:01:36,998 --> 01:01:39,368
I I will, I will use this example.

1083
01:01:39,368 --> 01:01:49,258
I, I, I used to be, you know, really great
at designing icons for all the computers with
either in black and white or then 16 colors.

1084
01:01:49,258 --> 01:02:01,438
And I could do this amazing, you know,
technique called dithering, which is you
create gradients by using, you know, just
two colors, by making the dots kind of, you
know, you kind of doing everything by hand.

1085
01:02:01,438 --> 01:02:04,618
And when, when a, when, you know, backwe

1086
01:02:04,618 --> 01:02:04,715
and

1087
01:02:04,738 --> 01:02:05,398
windows,

1088
01:02:05,563 --> 01:02:06,463
were good at that.

1089
01:02:06,463 --> 01:02:06,643
It's

1090
01:02:06,838 --> 01:02:08,308
uh, incredible, right?

1091
01:02:08,368 --> 01:02:18,118
But when, when they came out with 256
colors for, for the operating system,
I was like, I, I refuse to do it for
months because I thought it was cheating.

1092
01:02:19,073 --> 01:02:19,293
Uh,

1093
01:02:19,618 --> 01:02:19,948
yeah.

1094
01:02:19,948 --> 01:02:26,318
I mean, it's like what this thing I've spent
so much time learning how to do it can be
done, quickly, but everything's cheating.

1095
01:02:26,318 --> 01:02:26,738
Guys.

1096
01:02:26,738 --> 01:02:29,828
You know, you had to put
like letter presses together.

1097
01:02:30,008 --> 01:02:35,078
You had to like, you know, you didn't have like
autocorrect, you didn't have any of these things.

1098
01:02:35,078 --> 01:02:45,308
Like at the end of the day, you have to understand
what the values of what you're providing
and the value you're providing is whatever
the output is that you've guided forward.

1099
01:02:45,368 --> 01:02:46,778
And if it's yours, it's yours.

1100
01:02:47,228 --> 01:02:47,948
Like that's fine.

1101
01:02:48,518 --> 01:02:51,098
Taste is going to play so much bigger role

1102
01:02:51,908 --> 01:02:58,988
Well also I think, you know, just from
a, a, like a writing perspective, it
combines writing with, with editing, right.

1103
01:02:58,988 --> 01:02:59,168
And I

1104
01:02:59,168 --> 01:03:06,998
think a lot of, you know, there's, there are
different skill sets, but they're obviously
very related and it's a mix between the two.

1105
01:03:06,998 --> 01:03:14,048
And to me, going forward, a lot, at
least within writing, is going to be
a combination of writing and editing.

1106
01:03:14,168 --> 01:03:14,318
Like,

1107
01:03:14,318 --> 01:03:15,068
you're gonna need to be

1108
01:03:15,368 --> 01:03:16,073
Would you mind

1109
01:03:16,073 --> 01:03:16,853
what to most

1110
01:03:17,123 --> 01:03:19,103
to write the newsletter this week?

1111
01:03:19,610 --> 01:03:20,420
no,

1112
01:03:21,034 --> 01:03:21,964
We could do that.

1113
01:03:22,667 --> 01:03:24,047
It's not gonna write it though.

1114
01:03:24,047 --> 01:03:29,507
It's just going to be like, for
instance, let me go through how I'm
gonna use it for, for a research report.

1115
01:03:29,927 --> 01:03:33,393
Like I have a, I had like all of

1116
01:03:33,393 --> 01:03:34,473
the calls with the.

1117
01:03:34,668 --> 01:03:35,298
you to write it.

1118
01:03:35,943 --> 01:03:36,453
Oh, are you?

1119
01:03:36,483 --> 01:03:38,763
Well, I mean, I'll do it with,
uh, no, wait, I'm not gonna do it.

1120
01:03:39,153 --> 01:03:39,903
It's like Thursday.

1121
01:03:39,903 --> 01:03:41,193
I got some, I got stuff to do.

1122
01:03:41,658 --> 01:03:43,668
How do you write a research report with AI Brent?

1123
01:03:44,065 --> 01:03:45,175
well this might be boring,

1124
01:03:45,445 --> 01:03:45,745
but

1125
01:03:45,880 --> 01:03:46,840
It's not, it's nice.

1126
01:03:46,931 --> 01:03:47,455
plow ahead.

1127
01:03:47,815 --> 01:03:58,345
so like after like the, the, the call
with like clients and stakeholders, that,
that, that, that transcript gets fed into
ai that keeps all of my stuff in there,
knows, knows all of the rebooting content.

1128
01:03:58,345 --> 01:04:02,065
I've uploaded everything in
there, and then it comes up.

1129
01:04:02,125 --> 01:04:09,145
We go back and forth on what the questions
are going to be in the outline, and
then the survey gets, gets produced.

1130
01:04:09,175 --> 01:04:11,725
I like edit it and change things and whatnot.

1131
01:04:12,205 --> 01:04:17,695
And then the results get
loaded back up into the survey.

1132
01:04:17,695 --> 01:04:26,395
I have a freelancer who is interviewing
a bunch of stakeholders with questions
that I created with the, like ai.

1133
01:04:26,785 --> 01:04:29,545
Then all of those interviews
are gonna get uploaded.

1134
01:04:29,905 --> 01:04:40,495
Along with like case studies, mini case studies
that he's, he's writing and then like fact
bot, so it's basically, it's almost like an
auto assembly plant I'm trying to make, to

1135
01:04:40,495 --> 01:04:53,425
create what will end up being a 3000 word
research report that I think will, will be
done in probably like quarter of the time,

1136
01:04:54,094 --> 01:04:55,444
but just as high quality.

1137
01:04:55,444 --> 01:05:01,894
I'm gonna write the thing, but it,
it's going to be done with all of
the inputs being fed in there and

1138
01:05:01,969 --> 01:05:09,379
In some, in some ways, the role is
like you kind of, everybody turns into
this writer, editor hybrid, right?

1139
01:05:09,439 --> 01:05:16,639
Like, like a, a writer, editor, researcher, hybrid
where you kind of merge all these things together
and you augment it with things like ai and you

1140
01:05:16,639 --> 01:05:24,349
still need to make sure that every, every word in
that is, is, is touched and, and made sure that
it's like, comes like something you would write.

1141
01:05:24,409 --> 01:05:26,989
But I, I, I mean, I think it's incredible.

1142
01:05:27,199 --> 01:05:29,059
It just definitely speeds things up.

1143
01:05:29,149 --> 01:05:31,189
You know, you know what's also cheating?

1144
01:05:31,189 --> 01:05:32,089
Having an editor,

1145
01:05:33,514 --> 01:05:34,204
That is

1146
01:05:34,249 --> 01:05:34,639
which a

1147
01:05:34,759 --> 01:05:35,359
Here you go.

1148
01:05:35,719 --> 01:05:37,789
in the media don't, don't realize sometimes.

1149
01:05:38,266 --> 01:05:38,656
Nice.

1150
01:05:38,686 --> 01:05:39,016
Okay.

1151
01:05:39,303 --> 01:05:39,616
Well,

1152
01:05:39,661 --> 01:05:40,171
product.

1153
01:05:40,231 --> 01:05:41,281
Do we have a good product?

1154
01:05:43,596 --> 01:05:45,696
we can take you on just a little quick journey.

1155
01:05:46,070 --> 01:05:54,268
I guess I was just thinking about it,
and I don't really want, like, this is
gonna sound a little bit, I don't know,
fussy or pretentious, You know, like I,

1156
01:05:54,268 --> 01:05:54,388
uh,

1157
01:05:54,688 --> 01:05:55,138
never

1158
01:05:55,528 --> 01:06:03,958
well I had, I had a, you know, a nice travel
experience and a nice media experience and
actually a nice nut and beverage experience,

1159
01:06:04,498 --> 01:06:05,188
but you know.

1160
01:06:06,118 --> 01:06:06,718
Well, I like the

1161
01:06:06,718 --> 01:06:07,138
nuts on.

1162
01:06:07,168 --> 01:06:07,728
like the Virgin

1163
01:06:07,888 --> 01:06:08,158
on an

1164
01:06:08,158 --> 01:06:08,728
airplane.

1165
01:06:08,728 --> 01:06:09,868
I like those nuts.

1166
01:06:10,168 --> 01:06:11,188
No, on the plane.

1167
01:06:11,188 --> 01:06:16,018
I, I actually sometimes ask for an extra
serving of the war almonds, you know, that come,

1168
01:06:16,318 --> 01:06:17,188
You were on Virgin.

1169
01:06:17,458 --> 01:06:19,138
no, I was on American, actually.

1170
01:06:19,678 --> 01:06:20,518
But yeah,

1171
01:06:20,908 --> 01:06:25,318
you know, on the way over, I, I
watched, kind of a cool movie.

1172
01:06:25,378 --> 01:06:26,998
I had the book, I never read it.

1173
01:06:27,598 --> 01:06:32,816
nickel Boys is a movie, based
on a book by Colson Whitehead.

1174
01:06:33,416 --> 01:06:38,706
And the way it's shot is kind of cool,
sad story, but, I think worth watching.

1175
01:06:39,156 --> 01:06:49,476
And then, you know, if you can only discipline
yourself enough so that you, for, you know,
you, it's like forcing yourself to read on
an airplane can be an amazing experience.

1176
01:06:49,476 --> 01:06:52,386
And I'm, I'm reading a book
that I'm loving right now.

1177
01:06:52,386 --> 01:06:54,306
Brian called, not for You, Alex.

1178
01:06:54,786 --> 01:06:56,676
It's called Moth, moth Smoke.

1179
01:06:57,276 --> 01:06:58,896
it's motion Hamid.

1180
01:06:59,016 --> 01:07:06,936
He's a British Pakistani writer, and
he had written another book that I
read earlier in the summer that I
mentioned, I think on a previous podcast.

1181
01:07:07,168 --> 01:07:14,878
but I, I was going on last week, Brian, about
the greatest hotel in America being, you
know, that, that hotel you took me to the,

1182
01:07:15,038 --> 01:07:16,153
The Four Seasons.

1183
01:07:16,635 --> 01:07:20,595
I stayed in a great hotel in, in, in, in London.

1184
01:07:20,775 --> 01:07:21,675
Like terrific.

1185
01:07:21,915 --> 01:07:25,665
I stayed in the Mandarin Oriental
in Mayfair and it was unbelievable.

1186
01:07:25,710 --> 01:07:27,180
Oh, Mayfair, huh?

1187
01:07:27,270 --> 01:07:28,830
With all the oligarchs,

1188
01:07:28,845 --> 01:07:30,285
someone booked it for me.

1189
01:07:30,285 --> 01:07:30,675
I,

1190
01:07:30,805 --> 01:07:36,881
someone had a, had a hookup and, level
of detail in that hotel is unbelievable.

1191
01:07:37,841 --> 01:07:48,881
But, but the, the, the, the only thing that
wasn't a good product is I am so over these
multi-course, sort of Michelin tasting menu meals.

1192
01:07:49,271 --> 01:07:51,161
They're so stupid, I hate them.

1193
01:07:51,761 --> 01:07:55,061
They force you to sit there
for like four hours, you

1194
01:07:55,196 --> 01:07:56,366
and there's too much food.

1195
01:07:56,966 --> 01:07:58,436
three desserts, who needs three

1196
01:07:58,436 --> 01:07:59,036
desserts,

1197
01:07:59,141 --> 01:07:59,471
agree.

1198
01:07:59,591 --> 01:07:59,951
I agree.

1199
01:08:00,116 --> 01:08:03,476
and you'd leave feeling sick, and
then you spent like so much money.

1200
01:08:03,476 --> 01:08:04,166
It's horrible.

1201
01:08:04,271 --> 01:08:06,620
By the way, you sound like,
elitist Seinfeld right now.

1202
01:08:06,620 --> 01:08:08,090
That could be a new shtick.

1203
01:08:09,365 --> 01:08:09,695
No,

1204
01:08:09,695 --> 01:08:11,315
it all of this was

1205
01:08:11,765 --> 01:08:13,225
are Michelin star tasting

1206
01:08:13,550 --> 01:08:14,090
what about

1207
01:08:14,090 --> 01:08:15,377
those warm elements?

1208
01:08:17,120 --> 01:08:23,720
Don't you just hate it when you know,
they, you have to get up from your first
class seat so they can turn it into a bed.

1209
01:08:23,870 --> 01:08:25,370
I'm not ready for sleep yet.

1210
01:08:26,585 --> 01:08:27,395
Well, no, I mean,

1211
01:08:27,470 --> 01:08:29,330
But that's, that's ho cuisine, right?

1212
01:08:29,330 --> 01:08:32,120
Like, I mean that, that's
like, it's the experience.

1213
01:08:32,630 --> 01:08:34,010
Yes, yes.

1214
01:08:34,370 --> 01:08:38,210
It's it, and, and I think some of
those, some of those are really good.

1215
01:08:38,210 --> 01:08:42,550
I went to one, at a place called Merchant Roots
and there's Troy, I think you would like it.

1216
01:08:42,610 --> 01:08:49,150
They are, every season they change
the theme and the theme is very fun
and it's kind of semi interactive.

1217
01:08:49,150 --> 01:08:50,050
You go from room to

1218
01:08:50,050 --> 01:08:50,500
room.

1219
01:08:50,515 --> 01:08:52,255
don't want my, I don't want themes.

1220
01:08:52,960 --> 01:08:53,350
you don't.

1221
01:08:53,815 --> 01:08:54,385
meal with you

1222
01:08:54,430 --> 01:08:55,360
you can do that too.

1223
01:08:55,360 --> 01:08:56,350
I mean, it's a choice.

1224
01:08:56,350 --> 01:08:57,610
It's a, it's a free market.

1225
01:08:58,068 --> 01:08:59,079
you know what else you guys?

1226
01:08:59,079 --> 01:09:00,039
I bought a new iPhone.

1227
01:09:00,039 --> 01:09:02,619
I haven't bought a new one in
year in, I dunno, three years.

1228
01:09:02,619 --> 01:09:03,339
They're pretty good.

1229
01:09:04,459 --> 01:09:05,119
Well, there we go.

1230
01:09:05,119 --> 01:09:05,989
That's the review.

1231
01:09:06,259 --> 01:09:10,182
We got like M-K-B-H-D, we're coming for you.

1232
01:09:10,722 --> 01:09:12,612
It's the new iPhone is pretty good.

1233
01:09:12,964 --> 01:09:13,564
Yeah.

1234
01:09:13,669 --> 01:09:18,023
a new one every year I have a subscription  um,

1235
01:09:18,578 --> 01:09:19,298
Is that a thing

1236
01:09:19,613 --> 01:09:26,348
yeah, I just pay, I just, I just
send them 70 bucks a month and I just
get the new phone when it comes out.

1237
01:09:26,948 --> 01:09:27,878
it's only 70.

1238
01:09:28,185 --> 01:09:28,881
I don't know.

1239
01:09:28,911 --> 01:09:29,871
I'm not good with money.

1240
01:09:29,871 --> 01:09:30,261
I think

1241
01:09:30,291 --> 01:09:31,731
Is that an Apple program?

1242
01:09:32,451 --> 01:09:32,511
Yeah.

1243
01:09:32,734 --> 01:09:33,694
Do you have that, Brian?

1244
01:09:34,249 --> 01:09:35,033
No, I don't.

1245
01:09:35,153 --> 01:09:35,753
I just buy it

1246
01:09:35,808 --> 01:09:35,928
I,

1247
01:09:35,963 --> 01:09:37,373
my phone starts to slow

1248
01:09:37,448 --> 01:09:39,563
I I have a subscription water pick.

1249
01:09:39,563 --> 01:09:40,613
I get the new one.

1250
01:09:42,492 --> 01:09:42,672
So

1251
01:09:42,737 --> 01:09:42,957
uh.

1252
01:09:43,007 --> 01:09:43,767
your good product there,

1253
01:09:44,652 --> 01:09:44,682
I

1254
01:09:44,682 --> 01:09:46,122
don't know nothing.

1255
01:09:46,197 --> 01:09:47,517
just being rich.

1256
01:09:48,492 --> 01:09:49,152
I'm not rich.

1257
01:09:49,152 --> 01:09:56,322
I just happen to,  I,    I, I just
happen to have this great experience
that I want to share with you guys.

1258
01:09:56,695 --> 01:09:57,205
Uh, thank you.

1259
01:09:57,475 --> 01:09:57,715
Well,

1260
01:09:57,715 --> 01:09:58,465
I have a good product.

1261
01:09:58,465 --> 01:09:58,978
I think it's,

1262
01:09:58,978 --> 01:10:01,198
an older movie, but I don't think
enough people have watched it.

1263
01:10:01,198 --> 01:10:02,968
It's called The Death of Stalin.

1264
01:10:03,358 --> 01:10:05,428
It's with, Steve Buscemi is in it.

1265
01:10:05,828 --> 01:10:10,368
it's, you know, we were talking
about, holding court and, it happens.

1266
01:10:10,398 --> 01:10:13,308
It's a comedy, so it's,
it's, it's quite light fair.

1267
01:10:13,618 --> 01:10:30,041
but Michael Palin, Jeffrey Tambor, and Jason
Isak from, from the White Lotus, it's a nice
hour and 45 minutes and it shows you in a
very comedic way how people react around,
ultimate power and, it's really, really good.

1268
01:10:30,296 --> 01:10:30,746
I've seen it.

1269
01:10:30,795 --> 01:10:30,971
it.

1270
01:10:31,406 --> 01:10:31,946
It's great.

1271
01:10:32,406 --> 01:10:32,991
By the way, just

1272
01:10:32,991 --> 01:10:33,111
of

1273
01:10:33,606 --> 01:10:34,656
of White Lotus Brian?

1274
01:10:35,451 --> 01:10:37,041
I, I'm, I'm not caught up yet.

1275
01:10:37,041 --> 01:10:37,461
I don't,

1276
01:10:37,461 --> 01:10:37,881
It was fine.

1277
01:10:37,881 --> 01:10:39,801
I don't wanna ruin it for Alex.

1278
01:10:39,831 --> 01:10:40,371
I can't believe I

1279
01:10:40,371 --> 01:10:40,791
watched it

1280
01:10:41,271 --> 01:10:41,961
I'm slow.

1281
01:10:41,961 --> 01:10:42,651
We are watching,

1282
01:10:42,651 --> 01:10:43,701
do everyone talks about it.

1283
01:10:43,701 --> 01:10:43,911
How do

1284
01:10:44,001 --> 01:10:45,951
we don't always have the energy to watch that.

1285
01:10:45,951 --> 01:10:47,091
We watch other stuff.

1286
01:10:47,091 --> 01:10:50,841
We kind of have our, a mix of shows that we watch.

1287
01:10:50,886 --> 01:10:53,106
you guys watch Mork and Mindy reruns?

1288
01:10:53,719 --> 01:10:53,869
No,

1289
01:10:54,319 --> 01:10:54,739
no.

1290
01:10:54,799 --> 01:10:55,249
Mindy.

1291
01:10:55,429 --> 01:10:55,609
I

1292
01:10:55,609 --> 01:10:57,049
never watched Morgan Mindy.

1293
01:10:57,229 --> 01:10:58,099
Pam dlr.

1294
01:10:58,159 --> 01:10:59,239
She was a great actress.

1295
01:10:59,479 --> 01:10:59,989
RIP.

1296
01:11:00,544 --> 01:11:00,784
No.

1297
01:11:00,784 --> 01:11:03,244
There's a lot, there's way
too much good TV to watch.

1298
01:11:03,274 --> 01:11:05,194
And then we watch YouTube a lot.

1299
01:11:05,434 --> 01:11:08,555
Honestly, like the amount of
YouTube we watch is ridiculous.

1300
01:11:08,585 --> 01:11:12,725
Like long form shit on YouTube is
great, like elephant graveyard.

1301
01:11:12,725 --> 01:11:14,235
And you know, some of these like

1302
01:11:14,340 --> 01:11:17,010
That's not exactly relaxing fair, Alex.

1303
01:11:17,310 --> 01:11:20,940
It's like, listen, it was like my
wife and I we relaxed as death metal.

1304
01:11:22,213 --> 01:11:22,483
Yeah.

1305
01:11:22,783 --> 01:11:29,743
I mean, I, I find it relaxing because
it makes me feel less crazy that
somebody else sees the world in a way.

1306
01:11:30,103 --> 01:11:30,583
So

1307
01:11:31,138 --> 01:11:35,188
So this is tangential before we go, but, and maybe
it's for a different episode, but I'll go ahead.

1308
01:11:35,288 --> 01:11:41,738
have you noticed there, there's a
very strange thing with modern comedy
overlapping with like libertarian politics.

1309
01:11:42,113 --> 01:11:46,973
And the like podcast just asking questions, crowd

1310
01:11:47,393 --> 01:11:48,473
Oh, this is a whole

1311
01:11:48,473 --> 01:11:49,103
episode.

1312
01:11:49,103 --> 01:11:49,973
started with

1313
01:11:50,033 --> 01:11:50,633
episode.

1314
01:11:51,293 --> 01:11:52,823
but like the, no, Andrew Schultz.

1315
01:11:52,823 --> 01:11:56,813
Then there's this guy, Dave Smith, all of a
sudden who's on like Lex Friedman and all the pod.

1316
01:11:56,813 --> 01:11:57,413
They all go

1317
01:11:57,548 --> 01:11:58,498
let's just reflect.

1318
01:11:58,883 --> 01:11:59,423
each other.

1319
01:11:59,423 --> 01:11:59,783
Is this

1320
01:11:59,783 --> 01:12:00,683
like an official

1321
01:12:00,853 --> 01:12:00,973
A,

1322
01:12:00,978 --> 01:12:02,108
a, a, a

1323
01:12:02,438 --> 01:12:05,588
growth, a growth product manager, right?

1324
01:12:06,188 --> 01:12:18,728
from Facebook is being interviewed by a comedian
about tariff policy, and people are then
abstracting the most relevant policy points
and putting them on X. That's modern media.

1325
01:12:19,328 --> 01:12:25,028
I was listening to this comedian Dave
Smith talk about like Israel Palestine,
like Ukraine, like on Lex Friedman,

1326
01:12:25,373 --> 01:12:26,168
The, the, the

1327
01:12:26,318 --> 01:12:28,118
like asking myself, why am I listening to this?

1328
01:12:28,118 --> 01:12:31,448
Well, also, like l Lex Friedman or insufferable?

1329
01:12:31,548 --> 01:12:32,418
I thought you like Lex

1330
01:12:32,733 --> 01:12:34,173
no, no, I do not.

1331
01:12:34,233 --> 01:12:37,233
I I always found him kind of insufferable.

1332
01:12:37,323 --> 01:12:40,473
I might have said a couple of positive things as,

1333
01:12:40,638 --> 01:12:41,118
Putin

1334
01:12:41,673 --> 01:12:45,784
yeah, let's see if he's, as fair and balanced
with Putin as he was with the other guy.

1335
01:12:47,041 --> 01:12:48,861
it's, it's a, it's a grift, Brian.

1336
01:12:48,861 --> 01:12:50,241
It's called audience capture.

1337
01:12:50,601 --> 01:12:51,021
All right.

1338
01:12:51,381 --> 01:12:52,641
It's called audience capture.

1339
01:12:52,671 --> 01:12:54,591
So what you do is you kind of.

1340
01:12:55,581 --> 01:12:56,691
You align yourself.

1341
01:12:57,021 --> 01:12:59,091
And the right wing is really good at that.

1342
01:12:59,421 --> 01:13:06,541
There's a lot of shared talking points,
and, you know, you get them from wherever
and it, it creates this eco ecosystem.

1343
01:13:06,881 --> 01:13:08,231
started with Joe Rogan.

1344
01:13:08,231 --> 01:13:10,391
Everybody's kind of in Joe Rogan's orbit.

1345
01:13:10,391 --> 01:13:19,631
And it creates an environment where these
people jump on each other's podcast for
audience capture, which means that even if
you don't totally agree with what's being
said, at least you're not gonna push too hard.

1346
01:13:19,661 --> 01:13:22,361
Everybody knows the grift, right?

1347
01:13:22,661 --> 01:13:24,821
You're gonna go there, it's
gonna be pretty friendly.

1348
01:13:25,181 --> 01:13:31,931
and you're gonna hear stuff that you
might not completely agree with, but you
kind of nodding along and saying, yeah,
you know, maybe, maybe vaccines are bad.

1349
01:13:32,222 --> 01:13:35,522
and that's how you get an audience
these days within that framework.

1350
01:13:35,852 --> 01:13:38,282
And so that's why we're seeing
more and more and more of these.

1351
01:13:38,612 --> 01:13:43,982
And honestly, like comedians make a lot more money
from some of these podcasts than they do touring.

1352
01:13:44,072 --> 01:13:45,062
It's a lot less work.

1353
01:13:45,092 --> 01:13:47,732
So it's, it's, it's beneficial,

1354
01:13:48,362 --> 01:13:56,545
That's it for this episode of people versus
algorithms where each week we uncover
patterns shaping media culture and technology.

1355
01:13:56,950 --> 01:14:00,390
Big thanks as always to our
producer, Vanja Arsenov.

1356
01:14:00,900 --> 01:14:05,580
She always makes us a little clearer
and more understandable and we
appreciate her very, very much.

1357
01:14:06,080 --> 01:14:09,530
If you're enjoying these conversations,
we'd love for you to leave us a review.

1358
01:14:09,966 --> 01:14:12,626
It helps us get the word out
and keeps our community growing.

1359
01:14:13,101 --> 01:14:14,791
Remember, you can find People vs.

1360
01:14:14,821 --> 01:14:19,261
Algorithms on Apple Podcasts,
on Spotify, and now on YouTube.

1361
01:14:19,744 --> 01:14:22,034
Thanks for listening and
we'll see you again next week.

1362
01:14:22,397 --> 01:14:23,822
All right, cool.

1363
01:14:23,912 --> 01:14:24,872
Let's leave it there.

1364
01:14:25,251 --> 01:14:27,621
We'll have AI write the, uh, newsletter.

1365
01:14:27,919 --> 01:14:28,549
Yes

1366
01:14:29,055 --> 01:14:29,355
we all.