1 00:00:01,931 --> 00:00:04,631 Are you backing up all the things that you should be backing up? 2 00:00:04,931 --> 00:00:07,781 And this continuation of our backup to basic series. 3 00:00:07,811 --> 00:00:12,719 We talk about all of the traditional data sources that you should be backing up. 4 00:00:12,989 --> 00:00:13,785 Hope you enjoy it. 5 00:00:34,205 --> 00:00:37,265 W. Curtis Preston: hi, and welcome to Backup Central's Restore it All podcast. 6 00:00:37,265 --> 00:00:38,075 I'm your host W. 7 00:00:38,075 --> 00:00:39,875 Curtis Preston aka a Mr. 8 00:00:39,880 --> 00:00:40,415 Backup. 9 00:00:41,045 --> 00:00:45,365 And I have with me a guy whose only relationship to the Silicon Valley Bank 10 00:00:45,365 --> 00:00:47,495 is that he used to get coffee there. 11 00:00:48,095 --> 00:00:51,205 Uh, Prasanna Malaiyandi how's it going? 12 00:00:51,440 --> 00:00:53,930 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Ah, I'm good, Curtis. 13 00:00:53,930 --> 00:00:54,260 Yeah. 14 00:00:54,260 --> 00:00:58,280 Um, I, when all the news broke about Silicon Valley Bank, I was like, 15 00:00:58,280 --> 00:01:00,440 wait, that name sounds so familiar. 16 00:01:00,440 --> 00:01:01,400 I bet I know where they are. 17 00:01:01,400 --> 00:01:07,470 So, In one of my prior employments, uh, we were just down the street from them and in 18 00:01:07,470 --> 00:01:09,720 their headquarter location in Santa Clara. 19 00:01:09,720 --> 00:01:11,850 It's very interesting because in the center of it, there's 20 00:01:11,855 --> 00:01:13,560 like this coffee shop. 21 00:01:14,105 --> 00:01:17,315 And it's a standalone coffee shop and they're only open during some hours. 22 00:01:17,315 --> 00:01:19,925 So some of us would walk down there, have coffee and come back. 23 00:01:20,315 --> 00:01:22,775 And so when I heard the news about Silicon Valley Bank, I'm like, 24 00:01:22,775 --> 00:01:24,275 wait, that sounds very familiar. 25 00:01:24,275 --> 00:01:26,405 I went and like Google mapped it and looked it up and I was 26 00:01:26,405 --> 00:01:27,515 like, wait, I've been there. 27 00:01:27,515 --> 00:01:30,665 I've seen the people walking around in there having coffee. 28 00:01:30,670 --> 00:01:33,125 I probably had coffee with similar people, right? 29 00:01:33,155 --> 00:01:34,985 Some of the employees are Silicon Valley Bank. 30 00:01:36,035 --> 00:01:37,565 So I was like, wow, that's uh, 31 00:01:38,150 --> 00:01:39,680 W. Curtis Preston: maybe you had coffee with the people that 32 00:01:39,680 --> 00:01:41,480 are now standing in line at svb. 33 00:01:41,532 --> 00:01:42,492 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Yeah, possibly. 34 00:01:43,242 --> 00:01:47,562 Now I know because, but I'm guessing though, that a lot of their stuff 35 00:01:47,567 --> 00:01:49,122 was either online or over the phone. 36 00:01:49,122 --> 00:01:50,922 Like how often, and here's a question for you. 37 00:01:50,927 --> 00:01:52,452 How often do you actually go to a physical bank? 38 00:01:52,452 --> 00:01:53,772 When was the last time you went to a bank 39 00:01:53,982 --> 00:01:56,922 W. Curtis Preston: well, I don't, but all I see on the news is are 40 00:01:56,922 --> 00:02:01,452 lines of people at svp, you know, and they're going and it's like, and it's 41 00:02:01,457 --> 00:02:03,792 like founder after founder, right? 42 00:02:03,792 --> 00:02:06,552 It's like the c e o and they're like, yeah, I'm trying to get my money out. 43 00:02:06,672 --> 00:02:06,792 You 44 00:02:07,107 --> 00:02:11,277 Prasanna Malaiyandi: which is a little odd in this day and age of digital, 45 00:02:11,277 --> 00:02:14,877 and even the fact that these are probably like startup founders, right? 46 00:02:14,877 --> 00:02:18,717 In tech and they're like, we're gonna go old fashioned and stand in line. 47 00:02:19,227 --> 00:02:19,437 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah. 48 00:02:19,437 --> 00:02:22,617 Well, the problem is digital doesn't work, right? 49 00:02:22,617 --> 00:02:25,107 In the current scenario, digital doesn't work. 50 00:02:25,107 --> 00:02:31,497 So you go up and basically your choices are a wire transfer, um, 51 00:02:31,527 --> 00:02:34,557 cashier check, or a giant pile of cash. 52 00:02:35,007 --> 00:02:38,097 Um, I don't, I don't know if the giant pile of cash is actually, 53 00:02:38,097 --> 00:02:39,357 can you, can you imagine that? 54 00:02:39,837 --> 00:02:42,237 Yes, I have a $1 million bill. 55 00:02:42,957 --> 00:02:45,717 I don't think, surely you can't walk out with a giant pile of. 56 00:02:46,872 --> 00:02:49,662 Prasanna Malaiyandi: I bet you Well, it, I don't think you can walk out 57 00:02:49,662 --> 00:02:52,482 that same day because it depends on how much cash they have on hand. 58 00:02:52,992 --> 00:02:56,532 And I don't know if banks actually keep that much cash on hand. 59 00:02:56,532 --> 00:02:59,622 But if you made such a large withdrawal, I'm sure if you called a 60 00:02:59,622 --> 00:03:03,342 day or two ahead, could you imagine walking out with like $10 million? 61 00:03:06,222 --> 00:03:07,572 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah, that was kind of a problem. 62 00:03:07,602 --> 00:03:11,082 Uh, or that was the problem in the, in the first place, right? 63 00:03:11,082 --> 00:03:11,852 Is a whole bunch of people. 64 00:03:12,597 --> 00:03:16,527 Asking for their money when, uh, it's funny, I just got, I just got 65 00:03:16,527 --> 00:03:21,777 a notification inside what Inside SVBs collapse that was, that's 66 00:03:22,527 --> 00:03:23,967 the New York Times notification. 67 00:03:23,967 --> 00:03:27,987 I just got, uh, may you live in interesting times, the 68 00:03:27,987 --> 00:03:30,417 old, uh, Chinese, uh, proverb. 69 00:03:31,127 --> 00:03:39,757 So in our continued, uh, backup to basic series, um, we are continuing to work. 70 00:03:40,542 --> 00:03:46,992 Uh, my current favorite book, uh, which is Modern Data Protection, my latest from 71 00:03:47,022 --> 00:03:55,092 O'Reilly, which, um, uh, you know, it, it's my fourth book and, um, we'll see, 72 00:03:55,182 --> 00:03:56,682 we'll see if I got a fifth one in me. 73 00:03:57,312 --> 00:04:00,192 Uh, there, there certainly is a topic floating around that's 74 00:04:00,192 --> 00:04:01,602 been very popular lately. 75 00:04:02,682 --> 00:04:06,192 But, uh, this chapter, what's that? 76 00:04:06,192 --> 00:04:07,422 Yeah, bank collapses. 77 00:04:08,892 --> 00:04:11,307 How not to have it run on the bank. 78 00:04:13,287 --> 00:04:19,137 You know, it's funny, the whole banking system is really built on sort of trust 79 00:04:19,497 --> 00:04:24,057 in that any bank can fail the way SVB did. 80 00:04:24,567 --> 00:04:28,527 If enough people come up and say they all want their money at once, right? 81 00:04:28,707 --> 00:04:32,217 Because every bank invests for the long term and Right. 82 00:04:33,267 --> 00:04:34,917 But, um, but anyway. 83 00:04:36,012 --> 00:04:37,342 I don't wanna talk about svb. 84 00:04:38,022 --> 00:04:43,522 So, um, by the way, we'll throw out our usual disclaimer, uh, Prasanna 85 00:04:43,542 --> 00:04:44,862 and I work for different companies. 86 00:04:44,862 --> 00:04:46,662 He works for Zoom, I work for Druva. 87 00:04:47,052 --> 00:04:54,072 And, uh, this is not a podcast of either company and, um, The, uh, 88 00:04:54,072 --> 00:04:55,992 the opinions that you hear are ours. 89 00:04:56,052 --> 00:05:01,032 So the, and also, please, uh, please rate us, uh, go to your 90 00:05:01,032 --> 00:05:02,352 favorite, uh, pod catcher. 91 00:05:02,352 --> 00:05:05,682 Scroll down to where you can give us stars and, and tell us 92 00:05:05,772 --> 00:05:07,212 how wonderful you think we are. 93 00:05:08,562 --> 00:05:10,602 And, um, um, 94 00:05:11,272 --> 00:05:13,222 Prasanna Malaiyandi: And if you wanna watch us on video, go to 95 00:05:13,222 --> 00:05:16,592 Backup Central because we do post videos of all the episodes. 96 00:05:16,602 --> 00:05:16,952 So 97 00:05:17,082 --> 00:05:17,862 W. Curtis Preston: that's right on 98 00:05:17,932 --> 00:05:19,462 Prasanna Malaiyandi: if you wanna see our lovely faces, 99 00:05:19,872 --> 00:05:22,272 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah, you can actually see what we look like. 100 00:05:22,392 --> 00:05:28,212 Um, and, uh, I wonder if the, my, if, if our viewers or listeners will have 101 00:05:28,432 --> 00:05:31,092 the same reaction with you as my family. 102 00:05:31,092 --> 00:05:33,192 Did you remember when they first saw what you look like? 103 00:05:33,192 --> 00:05:35,952 They were like, he doesn't look like, because they'd heard your 104 00:05:35,952 --> 00:05:38,712 voice so much and then, uh, yeah. 105 00:05:38,712 --> 00:05:42,552 And then they saw you and they're like, oh, he didn't, he, he didn't match up to 106 00:05:42,557 --> 00:05:43,952 what I thought he was gonna look like. 107 00:05:45,357 --> 00:05:46,257 Prasanna Malaiyandi: boo. 108 00:05:47,022 --> 00:05:50,022 W. Curtis Preston: I don't know, may, may, maybe they weren't expecting that beard. 109 00:05:50,217 --> 00:05:51,447 Prasanna Malaiyandi: High expectations. 110 00:05:51,477 --> 00:05:51,597 Yeah. 111 00:05:51,882 --> 00:05:53,052 W. Curtis Preston: high expectations. 112 00:05:53,172 --> 00:05:58,017 Uh, but anyway, so this week we're gonna talk about, um, you know, the 113 00:05:58,152 --> 00:06:03,792 book tries to cover all of, basically all the things you need to back up. 114 00:06:04,197 --> 00:06:09,867 All the ways that you can back up all the why's you need to back up and, uh, 115 00:06:09,867 --> 00:06:13,077 and all the wheres, right, so where, where you might want to back up. 116 00:06:13,077 --> 00:06:13,797 And the hows. 117 00:06:14,337 --> 00:06:18,327 Uh, and in the beginning here we're talking about the what's and uh, right 118 00:06:18,327 --> 00:06:24,567 now the chapter is about traditional data sources, some of which we still argue over 119 00:06:24,567 --> 00:06:26,067 whether or not they need to be backed up. 120 00:06:27,657 --> 00:06:29,097 And I will, of 121 00:06:29,292 --> 00:06:30,072 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Mainframes. 122 00:06:30,687 --> 00:06:36,417 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah, I will of course say that I stand firmly on 123 00:06:36,417 --> 00:06:40,887 the ground of back up all the things, so you're not gonna hear it from me. 124 00:06:41,397 --> 00:06:45,027 Uh, there, there will be, there are some, some exceptions that 125 00:06:45,027 --> 00:06:47,817 I discuss in this chapter. 126 00:06:47,937 --> 00:06:49,167 Uh, and we'll talk about 'em. 127 00:06:49,467 --> 00:06:54,387 But the first section, uh, is about physical servers. 128 00:06:54,507 --> 00:06:55,347 Um, 129 00:06:56,097 --> 00:06:56,487 Prasanna Malaiyandi: What are those? 130 00:06:56,487 --> 00:06:59,427 Do you think people actually know what physical servers are these days? 131 00:07:00,477 --> 00:07:03,297 W. Curtis Preston: Well there, you know, I, you know, I, I was just on a call 132 00:07:03,297 --> 00:07:10,587 yesterday with a Druva customer, or potential, a Druva, a prospect, and they 133 00:07:10,587 --> 00:07:14,727 were discussing, uh, they had a number of physical servers in their data center, 134 00:07:14,727 --> 00:07:16,467 even though they were mostly virtualized. 135 00:07:16,497 --> 00:07:20,007 So, you know, do you, do you see it, I mean, do you. 136 00:07:20,307 --> 00:07:23,247 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Well, I'm just wondering as everyone's talking 137 00:07:23,247 --> 00:07:29,187 about cloud and compute list, right, functions running, do people even 138 00:07:29,187 --> 00:07:33,057 know like where, like what a physical server even is anymore, right? 139 00:07:33,057 --> 00:07:38,157 Or is it sort of, and this is probably more like the people currently entering 140 00:07:38,157 --> 00:07:42,567 the workforce more than sort of people who've been in the industry for a while. 141 00:07:43,657 --> 00:07:45,837 Because I'm sure most people haven't physically touched 142 00:07:46,337 --> 00:07:48,657 hardware, you know, in a long time. 143 00:07:49,062 --> 00:07:49,422 W. Curtis Preston: yeah. 144 00:07:49,422 --> 00:07:53,412 Well, it just depends on what, what generation, and by generation I 145 00:07:53,412 --> 00:07:57,492 don't mean people, I mean, Like the generation of, of the company, right? 146 00:07:57,852 --> 00:08:03,912 There are definitely companies like Druva where our entire, you know, 147 00:08:03,917 --> 00:08:06,132 we, we have a lot of compute, right? 148 00:08:06,132 --> 00:08:08,682 And we have a lot of things that we do as a company, right? 149 00:08:09,252 --> 00:08:13,482 Um, you know, with thousands of customers and, and you 150 00:08:13,482 --> 00:08:15,102 know, thousand plus employees. 151 00:08:15,792 --> 00:08:18,432 Uh, obviously we have a need of a lot of stuff, but. 152 00:08:19,482 --> 00:08:20,622 I, I don't know. 153 00:08:20,622 --> 00:08:25,362 I, I think we have a computer, like a server, and I don't know what it does. 154 00:08:25,362 --> 00:08:28,722 I, because I actually saw a server room at some point, but it was just 155 00:08:28,722 --> 00:08:31,602 really small and I don't, actually, don't, I think you know what it is. 156 00:08:31,662 --> 00:08:35,742 I think it's, um, the only thing we have is actually it's lab equipment. 157 00:08:35,772 --> 00:08:39,942 It's, it's stuff, it's stuff pretending to be servers so that we can. 158 00:08:40,932 --> 00:08:44,352 You know, back that stuff up, you know, and demo and stuff like that. 159 00:08:44,682 --> 00:08:49,212 But all our, our whole infrastructure is up in the cloud somewhere. 160 00:08:49,212 --> 00:08:51,522 And I think there's a lot of companies that are like that. 161 00:08:52,512 --> 00:08:55,482 But for those of us that have worked at companies and continue to work 162 00:08:55,487 --> 00:09:01,602 at companies where there's just some servers that, for one reason or another 163 00:09:01,662 --> 00:09:07,332 they don't virtualize them, maybe they're not, um, maybe they're not. 164 00:09:08,007 --> 00:09:10,677 Virtu liable, if I can make up a word. 165 00:09:11,757 --> 00:09:12,107 Um, 166 00:09:12,162 --> 00:09:15,522 Prasanna Malaiyandi: either, probably due to either hardware specs or even just 167 00:09:15,522 --> 00:09:19,902 the fact that moving this to the cloud doesn't make sense for this application 168 00:09:19,902 --> 00:09:24,162 because there are too many other dependencies or it's just risk, right? 169 00:09:24,162 --> 00:09:26,712 Every time you're migrating or moving a workload, right? 170 00:09:26,712 --> 00:09:29,832 There is risk involved in Sometimes it's like, Nope, we can't touch 171 00:09:29,832 --> 00:09:30,882 that, or we don't want to touch. 172 00:09:32,067 --> 00:09:35,427 W. Curtis Preston: And speaking of risc, uh, I'll spell it with a c. 173 00:09:35,967 --> 00:09:40,677 Uh, if you're using the risc architecture with a c, uh, you know, 174 00:09:40,707 --> 00:09:42,717 that's the salt, the sun architecture. 175 00:09:42,717 --> 00:09:44,067 I still, I still call it sun. 176 00:09:44,517 --> 00:09:47,847 Um, it would be Oracle now, but you know, if you're using 177 00:09:47,847 --> 00:09:49,817 any of the older unixes, right? 178 00:09:50,127 --> 00:09:54,387 Uh, the IBM still is still, theirs is still going strong. 179 00:09:54,417 --> 00:09:55,737 The, the. 180 00:09:56,847 --> 00:09:57,597 A I X. 181 00:09:57,597 --> 00:09:57,927 Right. 182 00:09:57,927 --> 00:10:00,147 That's still actively developed and released. 183 00:10:01,007 --> 00:10:02,097 HP's kind of dead. 184 00:10:02,097 --> 00:10:03,957 Is Solaris still developed? 185 00:10:04,797 --> 00:10:05,967 I think it is. 186 00:10:06,432 --> 00:10:06,942 Prasanna Malaiyandi: I think it 187 00:10:07,017 --> 00:10:07,677 W. Curtis Preston: I think it 188 00:10:07,692 --> 00:10:11,382 Prasanna Malaiyandi: well, I, well, and I just go back to the, so my 189 00:10:11,382 --> 00:10:16,062 dad, way back when he used to work at Tandem Computers, I don't know 190 00:10:16,062 --> 00:10:19,722 if you remember that name, but they used to build like nonstop kernels. 191 00:10:19,722 --> 00:10:24,202 And so these super high availability systems used in government agencies, 192 00:10:24,202 --> 00:10:27,072 and those are still kicking around because no one wants to touch them. 193 00:10:27,072 --> 00:10:28,452 No one wants to upgrade them. 194 00:10:28,992 --> 00:10:29,622 W. Curtis Preston: Exactly. 195 00:10:29,627 --> 00:10:29,952 Yeah. 196 00:10:29,952 --> 00:10:33,642 So there's a variety of these, some of which are still in production. 197 00:10:33,642 --> 00:10:37,122 Meaning, meaning production, meaning they're still being made. 198 00:10:37,392 --> 00:10:42,312 Most of them are defunct, uh, but they're still running right. 199 00:10:42,342 --> 00:10:43,632 Uh, with an uptime of. 200 00:10:44,447 --> 00:10:48,147 1700 days or whatever the way Linux used to be. 201 00:10:48,627 --> 00:10:51,477 Uh, there, there's sort of two, there's three different types 202 00:10:51,477 --> 00:10:52,737 of backups I talk about here. 203 00:10:52,917 --> 00:10:56,577 The standard backup, just a file system backup, uh, and then 204 00:10:56,577 --> 00:10:57,867 there's a bare metal backup. 205 00:10:57,867 --> 00:11:00,987 Now you said, you said something on the pre-call, you said 206 00:11:00,992 --> 00:11:02,247 you haven't really seen that 207 00:11:04,197 --> 00:11:05,037 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Not that I've seen that. 208 00:11:05,037 --> 00:11:09,087 I think most folks, at least a newer generation, they don't like. 209 00:11:09,087 --> 00:11:10,347 I've always thought, okay, when. 210 00:11:11,222 --> 00:11:12,747 So speaking personally, right? 211 00:11:12,747 --> 00:11:17,037 So when I had my PC in college, right, what I would do is, okay, I back up my 212 00:11:17,037 --> 00:11:20,757 data and then when it came to sort of the OS and everything else, I literally 213 00:11:20,757 --> 00:11:23,307 would like start from scratch, right? 214 00:11:23,607 --> 00:11:27,687 Every single time, just sort of okay, because for me, right? 215 00:11:27,717 --> 00:11:30,837 I didn't trust like all the programs that were there or 216 00:11:30,927 --> 00:11:31,947 things that might have changed. 217 00:11:31,947 --> 00:11:35,157 So I'm like, I'll just start from a clean slate and I had it down to a science. 218 00:11:35,157 --> 00:11:38,847 Like I would literally reinstall my entire system like once every three months. 219 00:11:40,152 --> 00:11:40,572 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah. 220 00:11:40,572 --> 00:11:42,372 Was that a, was that a window system? 221 00:11:43,167 --> 00:11:43,527 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Yeah. 222 00:11:44,262 --> 00:11:46,722 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah, that's, I, I didn't do it every three months, but 223 00:11:46,722 --> 00:11:48,672 when I had Windows, I, I did that a lot. 224 00:11:48,672 --> 00:11:50,472 I did the whole sort of refresh thing. 225 00:11:51,072 --> 00:11:55,272 But when, when you're looking at a more complicated architecture, uh, there 226 00:11:55,277 --> 00:12:01,212 are a lot of reasons to, uh, basically back up the operating system itself. 227 00:12:01,272 --> 00:12:01,632 Right? 228 00:12:01,632 --> 00:12:04,242 And when you're doing that, you're not just backing up. 229 00:12:05,102 --> 00:12:08,247 All the files in the operating system, you're potentially backing up. 230 00:12:08,247 --> 00:12:12,567 Basically the, the blocks that make up the, you know, the boot block 231 00:12:12,567 --> 00:12:13,797 and all of that kind of stuff. 232 00:12:14,397 --> 00:12:17,817 Um, the, there, there's a couple of different ways to do that. 233 00:12:17,817 --> 00:12:25,137 And the idea is that if the hardware itself died, right, um, or you bought 234 00:12:25,142 --> 00:12:30,207 new hardware, if you, if you just bought new hardware, as long as the, the OS was. 235 00:12:30,872 --> 00:12:34,257 Uh, you know, plug and play from a, from a new hardware perspective. 236 00:12:34,257 --> 00:12:34,587 Yeah. 237 00:12:34,917 --> 00:12:40,617 You could just literally restore the old s the old os to the new hardware. 238 00:12:40,947 --> 00:12:43,197 And it would just, it would just run right. 239 00:12:43,677 --> 00:12:46,407 And honestly, it, it worked pretty well. 240 00:12:46,437 --> 00:12:49,827 Um, you know, and there are, there continued to be backup 241 00:12:50,467 --> 00:12:52,377 software products that still. 242 00:12:53,352 --> 00:12:54,222 In that way. 243 00:12:54,282 --> 00:12:54,762 Right. 244 00:12:54,822 --> 00:12:59,772 Um, the, the thing is that it's gone by the wayside because of virtualization. 245 00:13:00,687 --> 00:13:04,527 Prasanna Malaiyandi: The one question I wanted to ask though is I don't think 246 00:13:04,527 --> 00:13:08,237 people understand, just going back to one comment, you made the complexities right. 247 00:13:08,947 --> 00:13:12,432 Can you sort of walk through, and I know sometimes we talk about like bare metal 248 00:13:12,432 --> 00:13:15,792 backups and then I know we'll eventually talk about restores, but it's really 249 00:13:15,792 --> 00:13:17,472 the restore I'm interested in, right? 250 00:13:17,772 --> 00:13:19,242 Without bare metal backups. 251 00:13:19,242 --> 00:13:25,032 Like how complex does restore get and like what are the benefits of doing a bare 252 00:13:25,037 --> 00:13:27,882 metal backup from a restore or recovery 253 00:13:28,512 --> 00:13:28,812 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah. 254 00:13:28,812 --> 00:13:33,432 Well, again, outside of the virtualization world, you basically have two choices. 255 00:13:33,492 --> 00:13:34,542 Well, you have three choices. 256 00:13:34,542 --> 00:13:37,422 You have the one that you described, which really doesn't 257 00:13:37,422 --> 00:13:38,592 work in the data center, right? 258 00:13:38,592 --> 00:13:43,752 You, you, you have to, you have to like reload the os, reload all the 259 00:13:43,752 --> 00:13:47,832 applications, and then do all the configuration that you may have done to. 260 00:13:48,067 --> 00:13:49,807 D o s and all the applications. 261 00:13:50,377 --> 00:13:54,847 Um, you could potentially restore a bunch of files if you were really good at it and 262 00:13:54,847 --> 00:13:58,567 knew exactly what you needed to restore to put all that configuration back in place. 263 00:13:59,167 --> 00:14:05,677 Um, the second, and probably more common was the idea of maintaining an image. 264 00:14:06,147 --> 00:14:09,447 Right, you're gonna maintain a Solaris image and an a I X image 265 00:14:09,447 --> 00:14:11,097 and a, you know, a Linux image. 266 00:14:11,547 --> 00:14:15,537 And then you just, you lay down that image and that image isn't just the 267 00:14:15,867 --> 00:14:19,677 os, it's the OS configured the way you want it configured in your environment. 268 00:14:20,337 --> 00:14:24,217 So you would lay down that image and then you do a handful of 269 00:14:24,277 --> 00:14:26,937 customizations, like host name. 270 00:14:27,897 --> 00:14:28,977 That kind of stuff. 271 00:14:29,457 --> 00:14:31,137 Uh, and then it'd be off and running. 272 00:14:31,137 --> 00:14:34,827 And then the third would be you literally back up all of the bites and 273 00:14:34,827 --> 00:14:38,637 blocks, uh, that, you know, comprise 274 00:14:38,717 --> 00:14:39,757 Prasanna Malaiyandi: a specific machine. 275 00:14:40,287 --> 00:14:41,967 W. Curtis Preston: for each specific machine. 276 00:14:42,327 --> 00:14:45,837 And then what you need is you need to boot a mini root. 277 00:14:46,257 --> 00:14:50,367 Uh, basically you, you know, you need to, cuz you need to restore to a 278 00:14:50,367 --> 00:14:52,017 drive that you're not currently using. 279 00:14:52,017 --> 00:14:53,347 So you boot a mini root. 280 00:14:53,917 --> 00:15:00,282 Um, basically, you know, sometimes different oss work differently, 281 00:15:00,282 --> 00:15:02,892 but like with Windows you could restore really basic. 282 00:15:03,597 --> 00:15:06,657 Uh, mini root, and then you'd boot into that, and then you'd 283 00:15:06,657 --> 00:15:08,217 do the restore of the drive. 284 00:15:08,757 --> 00:15:10,737 Uh, it gets really complicated. 285 00:15:11,187 --> 00:15:17,367 Um, but, but the idea is that, um, and, and it's one of the reasons why I 286 00:15:17,372 --> 00:15:21,387 think that it, it went by the wayside and the fact that virtualization came 287 00:15:21,392 --> 00:15:24,447 out, but, um, it's really complicated. 288 00:15:24,687 --> 00:15:27,027 Um, but, um, 289 00:15:27,152 --> 00:15:28,347 Prasanna Malaiyandi: I don't think I wanna do that ever. 290 00:15:29,202 --> 00:15:29,712 W. Curtis Preston: No. 291 00:15:29,772 --> 00:15:34,572 Yeah, well, um, but you know what, uh, time machine is a bare metal backup, 292 00:15:35,397 --> 00:15:35,727 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Yeah. 293 00:15:36,312 --> 00:15:36,732 W. Curtis Preston: right? 294 00:15:36,822 --> 00:15:38,742 Because it puts back everything. 295 00:15:38,832 --> 00:15:41,592 Um, you know, it puts back the whole thing. 296 00:15:41,832 --> 00:15:42,732 Yeah, exactly. 297 00:15:43,242 --> 00:15:46,212 Uh, the other thing I had under physical service B was backing up, 298 00:15:46,212 --> 00:15:51,492 NAS, there was a time, uh, shoutout to Steven Manley Druva's CTO. 299 00:15:51,792 --> 00:15:56,082 There was a time when I was a big fan of N D P, the network. 300 00:15:57,387 --> 00:16:02,337 Network data management protocol, which was the only way, cuz I didn't 301 00:16:02,337 --> 00:16:07,917 like backing up NAS servers via NFS and S and B, because you're competing 302 00:16:07,917 --> 00:16:12,207 for the U, you're competing with the users for the resources of the machine. 303 00:16:12,747 --> 00:16:16,227 And then within DMP it could deprioritize the backup. 304 00:16:17,007 --> 00:16:20,027 Uh, you know, under the priority of the users. 305 00:16:20,477 --> 00:16:25,697 But, you know, without going into it too much, there, there were, there are a lot 306 00:16:25,697 --> 00:16:31,727 of problems with N DM p, the, the chief of them being that it's platform dependent, 307 00:16:32,267 --> 00:16:35,807 meaning that if you back up a NetApp, that backup only works on a NetApp. 308 00:16:36,377 --> 00:16:37,037 Um, 309 00:16:37,287 --> 00:16:40,827 Prasanna Malaiyandi: For some vendors, I would say for some backup 310 00:16:40,827 --> 00:16:43,917 vendors, not all have that limitation. 311 00:16:45,387 --> 00:16:47,937 W. Curtis Preston: I think I'm gonna have to argue with you because the 312 00:16:47,942 --> 00:16:49,827 format comes from the platform. 313 00:16:51,087 --> 00:16:56,217 Prasanna Malaiyandi: So if, if I recall, yes, it does come from the 314 00:16:56,217 --> 00:17:00,717 platform, but there are some products which can reverse engineer and actually 315 00:17:00,717 --> 00:17:02,277 write out to a different target. 316 00:17:02,802 --> 00:17:03,252 W. Curtis Preston: Okay. 317 00:17:03,432 --> 00:17:03,822 All right. 318 00:17:03,822 --> 00:17:08,022 So there are some backup products that that basically extrapolate some 319 00:17:08,127 --> 00:17:08,767 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Very few. 320 00:17:08,817 --> 00:17:12,267 But it can't export out and restore everything back perfectly 321 00:17:12,267 --> 00:17:15,237 because like you said, if one vendor supports some attributes, 322 00:17:15,507 --> 00:17:17,067 cuz each vendor is unique, right? 323 00:17:17,157 --> 00:17:19,767 Another vendor, you may not be able to get that same access. 324 00:17:19,767 --> 00:17:22,407 So it will try, it'll at least get you back your data, but it's 325 00:17:22,407 --> 00:17:25,017 not guaranteed all the metadata associated with it matches or 326 00:17:25,017 --> 00:17:26,457 apples and other things like that. 327 00:17:26,562 --> 00:17:29,892 W. Curtis Preston: So what most people do is they, they mount the 328 00:17:29,922 --> 00:17:33,552 NAS device, uh, to some kind of proxy and they back it up that way. 329 00:17:34,212 --> 00:17:36,582 Um, so, and. 330 00:17:36,957 --> 00:17:40,287 You know, and honestly, especially if you've gone to an incremental 331 00:17:40,287 --> 00:17:43,497 forever approach, uh, I don't think there's anything wrong with that. 332 00:17:43,827 --> 00:17:46,377 Back in the day when we were doing a, a mixture of full and 333 00:17:46,382 --> 00:17:49,767 incrementals, maybe you're having a bigger impact on the filer. 334 00:17:50,067 --> 00:17:52,707 Um, but, um, all right. 335 00:17:52,707 --> 00:17:54,777 The next we have is virtual servers. 336 00:17:54,957 --> 00:17:57,567 Uh, so the world of virtualization, the likes of. 337 00:17:58,737 --> 00:18:03,567 Hyper V, uh, a H v, kvm, all of these things. 338 00:18:04,137 --> 00:18:07,947 And, uh, I'm gonna wax, uh, historical here. 339 00:18:08,397 --> 00:18:12,237 Back in the day, the only thing we could do was VM level backup. 340 00:18:12,237 --> 00:18:16,587 Basically, you put an agent in the vm, you backed up the vm just like it was a 341 00:18:16,617 --> 00:18:20,877 virtual machine, and it was a horrible, if any of you're still out there doing 342 00:18:21,002 --> 00:18:22,722 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Sorry, can you restate that? 343 00:18:22,947 --> 00:18:23,457 W. Curtis Preston: what 344 00:18:24,252 --> 00:18:27,642 Prasanna Malaiyandi: You said you put an agent in the VM and you back up 345 00:18:28,447 --> 00:18:30,537 W. Curtis Preston: VM as if it were a physical machine. 346 00:18:30,867 --> 00:18:31,407 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Oh, sorry. 347 00:18:31,407 --> 00:18:32,337 I thought you said virtual machine. 348 00:18:32,427 --> 00:18:32,667 Sorry. 349 00:18:32,757 --> 00:18:33,237 My bad. 350 00:18:33,237 --> 00:18:33,627 W. Curtis Preston: No. 351 00:18:33,807 --> 00:18:34,287 As if it 352 00:18:34,347 --> 00:18:34,407 Prasanna Malaiyandi: I, 353 00:18:34,467 --> 00:18:35,427 W. Curtis Preston: a physical machine. 354 00:18:35,757 --> 00:18:38,007 Well, maybe at least that's what I thought I said anyway, 355 00:18:38,307 --> 00:18:38,667 Prasanna Malaiyandi: yeah, 356 00:18:39,297 --> 00:18:44,547 W. Curtis Preston: so, um, and, and if you're still doing fulls 357 00:18:44,547 --> 00:18:47,547 and incrementals in VMs, stop. 358 00:18:47,552 --> 00:18:47,987 Right. 359 00:18:48,057 --> 00:18:50,907 It's just, I don't know why anyone would st It was horrible 360 00:18:50,912 --> 00:18:52,767 from a architecture standpoint. 361 00:18:52,767 --> 00:18:55,047 It beat the crap out of the virtualization box. 362 00:18:56,237 --> 00:18:56,727 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Yeah. 363 00:18:57,222 --> 00:19:00,762 W. Curtis Preston: did you, did you deal with that anywhere where you worked? 364 00:19:01,722 --> 00:19:02,022 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Yep. 365 00:19:02,082 --> 00:19:02,772 I did. 366 00:19:02,772 --> 00:19:06,612 So one of my former employers, uh, was very big on VMware 367 00:19:07,222 --> 00:19:07,832 W. Curtis Preston: Mm-hmm. 368 00:19:08,262 --> 00:19:09,942 Prasanna Malaiyandi: so, um, yeah. 369 00:19:11,607 --> 00:19:15,387 Luckily, they were smart enough to not do that, right? 370 00:19:15,387 --> 00:19:19,707 To do sort of throw an agent into a VM and back it up like a physical server. 371 00:19:19,857 --> 00:19:24,447 And so at least when I joined, I wasn't there as part of the initial wave towards 372 00:19:24,452 --> 00:19:25,707 figuring out how to back up VMware. 373 00:19:25,707 --> 00:19:28,317 By the time I was there, they were already doing smarter things, which you'll talk 374 00:19:28,317 --> 00:19:32,277 about in a second for backing up VMs because yeah, whenever I thought about 375 00:19:32,277 --> 00:19:34,827 it, I'm like, why would you ever back it up like a normal physical server? 376 00:19:34,827 --> 00:19:35,457 That makes no 377 00:19:35,682 --> 00:19:40,032 W. Curtis Preston: because back then we had, we, well, we had no choice, right? 378 00:19:40,182 --> 00:19:45,342 Um, virtualization broke back up overnight, uh, and we 379 00:19:45,462 --> 00:19:47,412 Prasanna Malaiyandi: you like to talk about that's like, yeah. 380 00:19:47,892 --> 00:19:48,342 W. Curtis Preston: yeah. 381 00:19:48,762 --> 00:19:52,422 Uh, the, you know, we had to do things like spread the fulls out across the 382 00:19:52,422 --> 00:19:56,232 month, spread the, in the cumulative incrementals out across the week, and 383 00:19:56,232 --> 00:19:58,812 then do a nightly incremental, um, 384 00:19:59,712 --> 00:20:01,092 Prasanna Malaiyandi: because just going back to the, what you were 385 00:20:01,092 --> 00:20:03,972 talking about of sort of like the NAS and the N D M P case, right? 386 00:20:04,212 --> 00:20:08,262 With VMware it's a lot worse because if you're backing up one vm, you 387 00:20:08,262 --> 00:20:11,112 could potentially impact all of the other virtual machines running 388 00:20:11,112 --> 00:20:12,942 on that same ESX host, right? 389 00:20:13,332 --> 00:20:13,752 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah. 390 00:20:13,782 --> 00:20:17,862 If you, if you don't spread the load out, because the full backup is quite, is 391 00:20:17,862 --> 00:20:20,532 quite a, a, a knock on a, on a vm, right? 392 00:20:21,012 --> 00:20:24,642 So if you're, if you're doing a bunch of full backups at the same time on 393 00:20:24,642 --> 00:20:28,482 the same physical server, you're, you know, it's not gonna be good. 394 00:20:28,692 --> 00:20:29,052 Right? 395 00:20:29,382 --> 00:20:29,592 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Yeah. 396 00:20:30,222 --> 00:20:31,422 W. Curtis Preston: It's gonna be a little traffic jam. 397 00:20:32,322 --> 00:20:40,962 Um, and then, um, we started getting this, like, this idea of specialized 398 00:20:40,962 --> 00:20:42,552 backups for hypervisors, right? 399 00:20:42,557 --> 00:20:47,082 So that you could back up at the hypervisor level, right at the VMware 400 00:20:47,087 --> 00:20:53,472 level, at the, you know, hyper V level and you could back up the, the VMs as files. 401 00:20:54,042 --> 00:20:57,222 Um, there is one crucial. 402 00:20:58,992 --> 00:21:04,692 Piece of technology that is required for that to work with Windows. 403 00:21:04,722 --> 00:21:07,212 Do you know what that techno piece of technology would be? 404 00:21:08,882 --> 00:21:09,562 Prasanna Malaiyandi: VSS. 405 00:21:09,852 --> 00:21:10,632 W. Curtis Preston: Yes. 406 00:21:10,722 --> 00:21:11,682 Vss. 407 00:21:12,222 --> 00:21:14,862 So that is Windows Volume Shadow Services. 408 00:21:14,862 --> 00:21:15,672 You want to talk about that? 409 00:21:17,247 --> 00:21:19,927 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Yeah, so think of it like Microsoft's 410 00:21:20,607 --> 00:21:22,677 snapshotting technology, right? 411 00:21:22,707 --> 00:21:23,937 Which it pretty much is. 412 00:21:23,937 --> 00:21:27,447 It's just not the normal way that you would think about 413 00:21:27,452 --> 00:21:29,967 designing snapshots, right? 414 00:21:29,997 --> 00:21:36,882 Um, in how once you take a snapshot, Data sort of gets split differently and 415 00:21:37,212 --> 00:21:39,492 merging 'em back together is a little odd. 416 00:21:39,672 --> 00:21:42,812 It's not like what you would think when you think about like hardware snapshots. 417 00:21:42,812 --> 00:21:47,332 And so there are a lot of implications with using vss snapshots. 418 00:21:47,332 --> 00:21:52,602 I would say the one that I commonly ran across was when they designed the VSS 419 00:21:52,842 --> 00:21:56,802 protocol, you basically had to complete a snapshot within a certain amount of. 420 00:21:57,822 --> 00:21:58,382 W. Curtis Preston: Right. 421 00:21:58,557 --> 00:22:01,347 Prasanna Malaiyandi: depending on the system, right, because depending 422 00:22:01,347 --> 00:22:04,557 on also like how many layers, if it was a software snapshot or a 423 00:22:04,927 --> 00:22:05,907 hardware based snapshot, right? 424 00:22:06,117 --> 00:22:09,967 It could take more than that amount of time, which means that your snapshots 425 00:22:09,972 --> 00:22:12,507 start failing and as backup, right? 426 00:22:12,537 --> 00:22:15,387 You want to take a snapshot first, so you have a stable point in 427 00:22:15,387 --> 00:22:16,767 time before you do your backup. 428 00:22:17,457 --> 00:22:21,927 You now started to get backup failures, which were painful. 429 00:22:22,572 --> 00:22:23,532 W. Curtis Preston: Right, right. 430 00:22:23,532 --> 00:22:27,222 Yeah, they were, uh, but basically what, what it allowed us to do in 431 00:22:27,227 --> 00:22:32,112 the, in the, the thing about vss is that it could be, it, it had APIs 432 00:22:32,442 --> 00:22:34,242 so that you could call those APIs. 433 00:22:34,242 --> 00:22:39,102 And so VMware and Hyper B and these other virtualization products, they 434 00:22:39,102 --> 00:22:43,722 could call that API and say, Hey, make a snapshot, and then we're 435 00:22:43,722 --> 00:22:45,612 gonna back up that snapshot, right? 436 00:22:45,612 --> 00:22:49,292 So you can back up the, the VM externally. 437 00:22:49,812 --> 00:22:56,682 And, um, uh, while still getting a stable, consistent image, uh, 438 00:22:56,682 --> 00:22:58,272 that was the whole point of v s s. 439 00:22:58,542 --> 00:23:00,162 Is coffee gonna be okay? 440 00:23:00,342 --> 00:23:01,332 I'm very concerned for 441 00:23:01,467 --> 00:23:01,677 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Sorry. 442 00:23:02,697 --> 00:23:03,447 Okay, come here. 443 00:23:03,537 --> 00:23:03,777 Okay. 444 00:23:03,777 --> 00:23:05,027 Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. 445 00:23:05,032 --> 00:23:05,667 Okay, come. 446 00:23:05,907 --> 00:23:06,177 Come 447 00:23:09,112 --> 00:23:10,122 W. Curtis Preston: There you go. 448 00:23:10,797 --> 00:23:11,007 Prasanna Malaiyandi: now. 449 00:23:11,007 --> 00:23:11,167 He's fine. 450 00:23:11,382 --> 00:23:13,152 W. Curtis Preston: I, I could hear him down there. 451 00:23:13,152 --> 00:23:15,402 I was like, poor, please get poor coffee. 452 00:23:16,032 --> 00:23:18,522 Um, he sounded so sad. 453 00:23:19,092 --> 00:23:23,052 Uh, but yeah, that, so that's basically, you know, if you're 454 00:23:23,057 --> 00:23:28,182 backing up virtualization, you know, or or virtualized servers, 455 00:23:28,242 --> 00:23:30,762 you need to back them up in the way. 456 00:23:31,572 --> 00:23:33,822 That platform likes. 457 00:23:33,852 --> 00:23:34,362 Right? 458 00:23:34,362 --> 00:23:35,082 Exactly. 459 00:23:35,082 --> 00:23:35,472 Right. 460 00:23:35,982 --> 00:23:39,192 Um, and you need, you still, I think you need to be doing incremental, 461 00:23:39,192 --> 00:23:43,302 forever approaches, deduplication approaches so that you minimize the 462 00:23:43,307 --> 00:23:47,922 impact on the physical server that's hosting all that, uh, all those VMs. 463 00:23:49,332 --> 00:23:50,592 Prasanna Malaiyandi: I have a question for 464 00:23:50,622 --> 00:23:51,342 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah, sure. 465 00:23:53,022 --> 00:23:59,142 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Was V s s the first time you've heard of a vendor 466 00:23:59,147 --> 00:24:01,602 enabling backups to be better? 467 00:24:02,262 --> 00:24:07,542 I know we talked about N D M P, but from like a operating system 468 00:24:07,542 --> 00:24:08,862 software side of the house. 469 00:24:09,267 --> 00:24:10,347 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah, certainly. 470 00:24:10,497 --> 00:24:15,377 Um, well, no, cuz I've been around a while. 471 00:24:15,637 --> 00:24:16,057 The, 472 00:24:16,212 --> 00:24:17,462 Prasanna Malaiyandi: I, that's why I was asking. 473 00:24:18,447 --> 00:24:21,657 W. Curtis Preston: the oddly the, the one that actually jumps out at me. 474 00:24:22,647 --> 00:24:25,047 Was, makes this B from a i X. 475 00:24:25,047 --> 00:24:29,157 What makes this B was we'd go back to bare metal backup makes 476 00:24:29,307 --> 00:24:32,037 B was time machine for ax, right? 477 00:24:32,187 --> 00:24:38,847 So it was a, a complete backup of the operating system and everything on it. 478 00:24:39,477 --> 00:24:43,677 To a tape, which if you had the tape driving the tape and you had 479 00:24:43,677 --> 00:24:46,527 a completely brand new server you could restore, that makes the speed 480 00:24:47,047 --> 00:24:48,627 directly to the OS and restore it. 481 00:24:49,227 --> 00:24:51,267 Yeah, I, I can think of that. 482 00:24:51,267 --> 00:24:52,437 I can think of that. 483 00:24:52,617 --> 00:24:59,547 Um, but this was the one, this was one that was, This was useful for 484 00:24:59,547 --> 00:25:01,437 a lot of other purposes, right. 485 00:25:01,437 --> 00:25:02,547 For orchestration. 486 00:25:02,937 --> 00:25:06,087 Uh, and it also works with applications because not only does 487 00:25:06,087 --> 00:25:09,627 it take a snapshot of the operating system, it takes a snapshot of any 488 00:25:09,657 --> 00:25:12,867 VSS compliant, uh, applications. 489 00:25:12,867 --> 00:25:13,197 Right. 490 00:25:13,197 --> 00:25:17,487 See, obviously all of the Microsoft apps, but Oracle as VSS compliant 491 00:25:17,487 --> 00:25:21,687 as well, uh, and other, uh, databases that might run on Windows. 492 00:25:21,762 --> 00:25:24,102 Prasanna Malaiyandi: which is what you want because you want those 493 00:25:24,102 --> 00:25:26,022 applications to be consistent when you 494 00:25:26,202 --> 00:25:26,892 W. Curtis Preston: Exactly. 495 00:25:27,132 --> 00:25:28,692 Exactly, exactly. 496 00:25:28,692 --> 00:25:31,182 Otherwise, you're backing up a file that's changing as you're 497 00:25:31,187 --> 00:25:32,562 backing it up and that's no good. 498 00:25:33,402 --> 00:25:33,822 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Yep. 499 00:25:34,122 --> 00:25:37,242 W. Curtis Preston: So the next we have is desktops and laptops. 500 00:25:37,482 --> 00:25:41,232 Um, and this is, this is what I was referring to earlier when I was saying 501 00:25:41,232 --> 00:25:47,022 that we're gonna argue over whether or not you and I, but you know, whether 502 00:25:47,022 --> 00:25:49,062 or not these need to be backed up. 503 00:25:49,452 --> 00:25:54,312 Um, and I, I come down strongly on the back up, all the things. 504 00:25:55,182 --> 00:25:55,572 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Yep. 505 00:25:55,587 --> 00:25:59,037 W. Curtis Preston: Um, what do you, what, what have you run into? 506 00:25:59,037 --> 00:26:01,827 People talking about backing up their laptops out there. 507 00:26:03,252 --> 00:26:08,697 Prasanna Malaiyandi: I, I have, I think, What you end up seeing is a lot of people 508 00:26:08,697 --> 00:26:10,137 are like, why would I need to back it up? 509 00:26:10,137 --> 00:26:13,587 Especially when you're using all these SaaS services like Microsoft 510 00:26:13,592 --> 00:26:17,037 365 Google Workspaces, right? 511 00:26:17,187 --> 00:26:21,367 How much, and I get the point because it's like how much data actually 512 00:26:21,372 --> 00:26:23,127 sits on your laptop these days? 513 00:26:23,297 --> 00:26:27,357 However, there are scenarios like you're offline for some reason. 514 00:26:27,357 --> 00:26:30,747 Like right now in California, we just got hit with an atmospheric river. 515 00:26:30,957 --> 00:26:32,007 There's a bunch of power outage. 516 00:26:33,052 --> 00:26:33,582 In the area, right? 517 00:26:33,582 --> 00:26:35,502 Which means no internet connectivity. 518 00:26:35,682 --> 00:26:39,522 If you have to work or if you're doing offline editing, that's great, but that 519 00:26:39,522 --> 00:26:42,192 data's sitting on your laptop, right? 520 00:26:42,192 --> 00:26:46,032 And so if that's important, you need to make sure you back it up, right? 521 00:26:46,032 --> 00:26:48,042 One of the things, you go back to Curtis, it's like, if it's 522 00:26:48,042 --> 00:26:49,092 important to you, back it up. 523 00:26:50,067 --> 00:26:50,607 W. Curtis Preston: Right. 524 00:26:50,607 --> 00:26:51,027 Yeah. 525 00:26:51,207 --> 00:26:51,777 The. 526 00:26:52,842 --> 00:26:58,512 The funny thing is that, um, well, yeah, so that's really what comes down to is 527 00:26:58,732 --> 00:27:05,232 do you ever create data on your laptop that only sits on your laptop, or, and 528 00:27:05,232 --> 00:27:09,342 by the way, um, the next thing we're gonna talk about is mobile devices. 529 00:27:10,092 --> 00:27:14,997 Um, And if you do so I do. 530 00:27:15,057 --> 00:27:15,477 Right? 531 00:27:15,897 --> 00:27:20,517 I make this podcast, um, and, uh, and I write. 532 00:27:20,637 --> 00:27:30,417 So, um, I, um, there is, although, and I write by voice, uh, you know, dictation. 533 00:27:30,897 --> 00:27:37,437 So for a brief period of time, all of the words of a particular chapter are. 534 00:27:38,802 --> 00:27:40,617 On, not just my laptop. 535 00:27:40,617 --> 00:27:45,657 It's funny, my laptop here, over to my right here is my Windows laptop that 536 00:27:45,657 --> 00:27:50,577 I use just for voice dictation because Dragon, uh, for some reason decided to 537 00:27:50,577 --> 00:27:53,187 give up the, uh, the Macintosh market. 538 00:27:53,937 --> 00:27:57,717 Um, but I've never, I haven't said the full word Macintosh at all. 539 00:27:57,762 --> 00:27:58,122 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Macin 540 00:27:58,887 --> 00:28:00,117 W. Curtis Preston: I dunno why I said that. 541 00:28:00,567 --> 00:28:06,447 Um, but, um, yeah, so for, for a brief period of time, Any 542 00:28:06,447 --> 00:28:12,387 given chapter is sitting only on that device, and it would suck. 543 00:28:13,017 --> 00:28:20,322 If I lost that chapter right, um, there are people who create, and, and I, 544 00:28:20,322 --> 00:28:25,002 and when I'm producing these podcasts right as I'm producing the podcast, 545 00:28:25,007 --> 00:28:31,272 various pieces of that podcast exist only on this laptop I don't use. 546 00:28:31,332 --> 00:28:35,412 So interestingly enough, interestingly enough, I now use. 547 00:28:36,912 --> 00:28:43,692 A sassy, it's not fully sass, but it is a sa now that I'm thinking about it, the 548 00:28:44,142 --> 00:28:49,122 script, which is the tool that I used to edit my podcast, which I love, right? 549 00:28:49,122 --> 00:28:49,962 I really do. 550 00:28:50,382 --> 00:28:57,762 Um, but the way it works is that as soon as you load files, as soon as you load 551 00:28:57,912 --> 00:29:02,862 the source files into script, they're immediately uploaded to the cloud. 552 00:29:03,732 --> 00:29:04,222 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Yeah. 553 00:29:04,512 --> 00:29:05,832 W. Curtis Preston: on a local copy. 554 00:29:06,402 --> 00:29:12,762 Um, but it, but it's, it's immediately synchronizing, uh, the, the both 555 00:29:12,762 --> 00:29:17,322 the source files as well as all of your edits to the cloud so that, 556 00:29:17,412 --> 00:29:23,892 um, uh, and then it's, um, and it's maintaining a cache of that locally. 557 00:29:24,102 --> 00:29:24,402 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Yeah, 558 00:29:24,962 --> 00:29:27,957 W. Curtis Preston: Um, and so it's, it's kind of sassy. 559 00:29:28,227 --> 00:29:30,177 Um, but that's 560 00:29:30,192 --> 00:29:30,462 Prasanna Malaiyandi: but the 561 00:29:30,507 --> 00:29:33,117 W. Curtis Preston: like if you have, if you have a product like that, 562 00:29:33,117 --> 00:29:34,947 then maybe, maybe you don't have to. 563 00:29:34,952 --> 00:29:37,077 If that's the only thing you have, you might not have to back up. 564 00:29:37,632 --> 00:29:40,242 Prasanna Malaiyandi: but the question is, do they back up the stuff on their side? 565 00:29:42,867 --> 00:29:44,547 W. Curtis Preston: That is a really good question, right? 566 00:29:44,952 --> 00:29:45,912 Prasanna Malaiyandi: questions about SaaS. 567 00:29:45,912 --> 00:29:46,002 Right. 568 00:29:46,167 --> 00:29:47,397 W. Curtis Preston: yeah, yeah, yeah. 569 00:29:47,577 --> 00:29:56,307 Um, so, um, Which is why I do what I do, which is like I have a local copy of all 570 00:29:56,307 --> 00:29:58,767 of the pieces that go into the podcast. 571 00:29:59,517 --> 00:30:04,437 Um, I don't have, because I don't have a copy of 572 00:30:04,452 --> 00:30:05,682 Prasanna Malaiyandi: you also have the raw too, 573 00:30:06,237 --> 00:30:06,717 W. Curtis Preston: I have the 574 00:30:06,732 --> 00:30:07,812 Prasanna Malaiyandi: you also have the raw stuffers. 575 00:30:08,102 --> 00:30:09,447 W. Curtis Preston: have the raw stuff. 576 00:30:09,462 --> 00:30:11,802 Prasanna Malaiyandi: a long time to recover if you had to do that. 577 00:30:11,922 --> 00:30:15,072 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah, I would have to kind of re-edit 578 00:30:15,072 --> 00:30:17,172 an episode if I had to do that. 579 00:30:17,712 --> 00:30:24,912 Um, but, um, well, it, so first off, a number of things 580 00:30:24,912 --> 00:30:26,262 would have to happen, right? 581 00:30:26,262 --> 00:30:29,592 So the, the, the SaaS service would have to go down 582 00:30:30,642 --> 00:30:31,122 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Your laptop 583 00:30:31,182 --> 00:30:32,682 W. Curtis Preston: I would need to edit a past. 584 00:30:33,987 --> 00:30:36,597 Which I almost have never done, right? 585 00:30:36,657 --> 00:30:38,547 If I do, it happens within a day or two. 586 00:30:38,547 --> 00:30:44,007 It happened this week, oddly enough, uh, because I was editing, I was editing 587 00:30:44,007 --> 00:30:47,337 late at night and I messed up the intro. 588 00:30:47,757 --> 00:30:50,337 For those of you that are listeners, you heard a weird intro. 589 00:30:50,517 --> 00:30:51,867 You're, the music didn't match. 590 00:30:51,867 --> 00:30:56,187 It was a weird, uh, I figured that out as I was listening to it later 591 00:30:56,187 --> 00:30:57,267 and I was like, oh, I gotta fix it. 592 00:30:57,267 --> 00:31:00,537 So I had to go back and re-edit the, the podcast, but that 593 00:31:00,537 --> 00:31:01,407 was five minutes worth of. 594 00:31:02,742 --> 00:31:03,462 Monday 595 00:31:03,552 --> 00:31:04,512 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Because I was already there. 596 00:31:04,872 --> 00:31:06,132 W. Curtis Preston: yeah, and then I fixed it. 597 00:31:06,462 --> 00:31:06,732 Yeah. 598 00:31:06,732 --> 00:31:11,082 So, but I'm not going back and editing a podcast from two months ago. 599 00:31:11,742 --> 00:31:14,112 But anyway, this is, this is definitely an edge case, but 600 00:31:14,622 --> 00:31:14,922 Prasanna Malaiyandi: yeah. 601 00:31:14,952 --> 00:31:16,962 Well, and I know you're talking about podcasts, but the other 602 00:31:16,962 --> 00:31:19,392 thing, like I think a lot of people have is like they're pictures. 603 00:31:19,392 --> 00:31:22,692 Like I have, I take pictures where I used to take pictures, right? 604 00:31:22,692 --> 00:31:25,842 And I don't use any SaaS service for editing, right? 605 00:31:25,842 --> 00:31:30,072 I don't use Lightroom in the cloud or iCloud photos or whatever else, right? 606 00:31:30,072 --> 00:31:34,572 I do everything on my laptop, and so those pictures I never wanna lose. 607 00:31:34,572 --> 00:31:37,482 So I back that stuff up four times. 608 00:31:38,097 --> 00:31:41,177 I'm a little crazy, but I have four copies sitting in various places. 609 00:31:41,457 --> 00:31:45,027 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah, uh, uh, we'll get to mobile devices next. 610 00:31:45,147 --> 00:31:50,127 Um, let me, but let me give, let me give a scenario of one of where I said 611 00:31:50,127 --> 00:31:53,577 in the book where I said, okay, I'm gonna concede the point on this one. 612 00:31:53,577 --> 00:31:56,787 And that is, um, Chromebooks. 613 00:31:58,427 --> 00:31:58,587 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Hmm. 614 00:31:59,142 --> 00:32:03,672 W. Curtis Preston: Chromebooks are nothing more than a cache for what's in Google. 615 00:32:04,602 --> 00:32:05,112 Right? 616 00:32:05,352 --> 00:32:09,522 Um, and so there's nothing that should ever be on the Chromebook 617 00:32:09,582 --> 00:32:14,982 other than just the late most recent synchronized changes, right? 618 00:32:15,072 --> 00:32:18,372 Uh, I, I, you know, you can use it offline and then synchronized changes, 619 00:32:18,642 --> 00:32:21,732 but honestly, if you were offline, you wouldn't be able to back it up anyway. 620 00:32:22,602 --> 00:32:23,292 Um, 621 00:32:23,502 --> 00:32:27,012 Prasanna Malaiyandi: I would say that listeners should wait till we get to the 622 00:32:27,012 --> 00:32:31,392 chapter on SaaS services, where we talk about what you need to do on that site. 623 00:32:31,512 --> 00:32:32,262 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah, definitely, 624 00:32:32,472 --> 00:32:34,092 Prasanna Malaiyandi: So it's not that you, it eliminates the 625 00:32:34,092 --> 00:32:35,472 need to worry about backups. 626 00:32:35,472 --> 00:32:35,742 Right. 627 00:32:35,742 --> 00:32:38,472 It's just you don't need to back up your desktop. 628 00:32:38,802 --> 00:32:39,492 W. Curtis Preston: Exactly. 629 00:32:39,612 --> 00:32:40,302 Exactly. 630 00:32:40,422 --> 00:32:41,052 Exactly. 631 00:32:41,652 --> 00:32:44,772 Um, and then we talk about mobile devices. 632 00:32:44,952 --> 00:32:50,312 This one, uh, you know, and I'm, I'm gonna say that I. 633 00:32:51,507 --> 00:33:00,177 I am not compliant, uh, in this regard because I am trusting iCloud photos, 634 00:33:00,867 --> 00:33:04,857 and this is one of those things where I really have to look into this 635 00:33:04,862 --> 00:33:07,797 and I need to see if there we can come up with a solution for this. 636 00:33:07,797 --> 00:33:14,757 Because the beauty of the way the iPhone works and the way iCloud photos is that 637 00:33:14,787 --> 00:33:17,997 iCloud maintains the high res copy. 638 00:33:18,012 --> 00:33:18,507 Prasanna Malaiyandi: master. 639 00:33:19,207 --> 00:33:22,812 W. Curtis Preston: Right, and then on my phone is like the low res copy, 640 00:33:23,742 --> 00:33:27,972 and I only get the high res copy if I like actually start using a photo. 641 00:33:27,977 --> 00:33:38,202 I get it automatically, but there's no way that I can find yet, um, to, 642 00:33:38,202 --> 00:33:42,882 to get all of those high res photos out easily and store them someplace. 643 00:33:44,867 --> 00:33:45,287 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Can. 644 00:33:45,507 --> 00:33:45,897 Hmm. 645 00:33:46,687 --> 00:33:46,967 Interesting. 646 00:33:48,687 --> 00:33:51,177 W. Curtis Preston: Um, but, but, but this, but I'm gonna, I'm gonna 647 00:33:51,177 --> 00:33:54,477 submit this as a, as a thing where I'm not doing the right thing. 648 00:33:55,167 --> 00:33:55,737 Okay? 649 00:33:56,037 --> 00:33:59,937 Um, and I am trusting Apple far too much now. 650 00:33:59,937 --> 00:34:00,987 I am paying for them. 651 00:34:01,257 --> 00:34:03,917 I am paying for them to store this data. 652 00:34:05,022 --> 00:34:11,607 So, you know, but the data, the photos that matter to me are only in one place. 653 00:34:13,107 --> 00:34:13,457 So 654 00:34:13,597 --> 00:34:14,297 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Bad Curtis. 655 00:34:14,437 --> 00:34:14,857 Bad. 656 00:34:15,267 --> 00:34:15,567 W. Curtis Preston: right. 657 00:34:15,572 --> 00:34:19,857 The high res versions of these photos are only, and videos are only in one place. 658 00:34:20,337 --> 00:34:23,667 Mainly it would be the really cool videos of my granddaughter, 659 00:34:23,667 --> 00:34:24,987 Lily, that I would miss. 660 00:34:25,107 --> 00:34:25,467 Right. 661 00:34:26,382 --> 00:34:26,652 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Yep. 662 00:34:27,492 --> 00:34:30,612 But still, you should figure out how to at least pull that data down 663 00:34:30,612 --> 00:34:32,652 to a laptop, so then you can then 664 00:34:33,057 --> 00:34:34,497 W. Curtis Preston: I, I've, I've looked into it. 665 00:34:35,197 --> 00:34:37,827 I, I, I've looked into it and I, I don't wanna spend too much time 666 00:34:37,827 --> 00:34:41,877 talking about here, but I've looked into it before and, and, and I think 667 00:34:41,937 --> 00:34:43,137 then I got busy with other things. 668 00:34:44,307 --> 00:34:49,092 Um, but, uh, And, and I really do need to come up with it, with a solution, and 669 00:34:49,092 --> 00:34:53,532 I need to bring, um, need to bring our friend, uh, Daniel on, uh, for that one. 670 00:34:53,892 --> 00:35:01,542 But, um, but the, the, the point that I want to make is that iCloud photos being 671 00:35:01,547 --> 00:35:09,012 an exception here, if your device that you're holding is, is basically one of 672 00:35:09,012 --> 00:35:16,122 two copies, um, You know, you that, that basically the cloud maintains a backup 673 00:35:16,122 --> 00:35:22,152 copy of your phone and you maintain a copy of your phone and the, and the 674 00:35:22,152 --> 00:35:29,142 cloud has the ability to, here's a big, here's a big if, if the cloud I, if you 675 00:35:29,147 --> 00:35:33,972 go into your phone and you basically delete all your photos, is there any 676 00:35:33,972 --> 00:35:35,592 way to get those back on the cloud? 677 00:35:37,002 --> 00:35:40,032 Um, cuz that's mainly what we're talking about, right? 678 00:35:40,092 --> 00:35:40,902 It's photos. 679 00:35:42,142 --> 00:35:47,967 Um, in your email, you're basically, you're just a cash of the, um, right? 680 00:35:49,037 --> 00:35:51,357 Prasanna Malaiyandi: I think messages work the same way as well. 681 00:35:51,357 --> 00:35:52,977 Lisa, if you're using iMessage. 682 00:35:52,977 --> 00:35:53,847 W. Curtis Preston: yeah, yeah. 683 00:35:53,877 --> 00:35:56,157 Well, and the other, yeah, the other thing, well, yeah. 684 00:35:57,027 --> 00:36:02,337 Um, It, it, it gets, it gets more complicated when we start talking 685 00:36:02,337 --> 00:36:04,407 about consumer personal devices. 686 00:36:04,877 --> 00:36:10,137 If, if you're, if you're a, a, uh, a commercial user, you can, 687 00:36:10,587 --> 00:36:14,307 there, there are services, Druva backs up, uh, mobile devices. 688 00:36:14,312 --> 00:36:15,907 It backs up the iPhone, right? 689 00:36:16,557 --> 00:36:22,287 Um, but we can only back up, and by we, I mean any vendors that do this, we can only 690 00:36:22,287 --> 00:36:26,757 back up what the OS vendor allows us to. 691 00:36:27,767 --> 00:36:28,187 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Yep. 692 00:36:28,932 --> 00:36:33,822 W. Curtis Preston: Uh, which on the iPhone means pretty much only Apple 693 00:36:33,967 --> 00:36:34,407 Prasanna Malaiyandi: a whole lot. 694 00:36:35,322 --> 00:36:35,742 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah. 695 00:36:35,772 --> 00:36:41,382 Like, like, um, like if there was a des on the iPhone, is 696 00:36:41,382 --> 00:36:42,282 there a script on the iPhone? 697 00:36:42,812 --> 00:36:45,642 I dunno if there was a script on the iPhone, like I couldn't back 698 00:36:45,642 --> 00:36:48,762 up its data because that's just the way, it's a security feature. 699 00:36:49,887 --> 00:36:50,217 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Yeah. 700 00:36:50,487 --> 00:36:51,927 And even WhatsApp is the same, right? 701 00:36:51,927 --> 00:36:57,417 You have to use WhatsApp's Cloud backup where it'll sync the data to some data 702 00:36:57,417 --> 00:37:01,857 source you get, you tell it to, but you can't use it through a centralized place 703 00:37:01,857 --> 00:37:03,777 to backup everything on your iPhone. 704 00:37:04,422 --> 00:37:05,262 W. Curtis Preston: Right, right. 705 00:37:05,267 --> 00:37:05,862 Exactly, 706 00:37:06,267 --> 00:37:12,387 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Although, I do wonder what happens when you do a physical 707 00:37:12,387 --> 00:37:15,867 backup using a lightning cable in iTunes? 708 00:37:18,372 --> 00:37:20,232 W. Curtis Preston: Are you talking Are, are you back to photos? 709 00:37:21,507 --> 00:37:21,938 Prasanna Malaiyandi: No, no, no. 710 00:37:21,943 --> 00:37:22,677 Just in general. 711 00:37:22,857 --> 00:37:23,127 Right? 712 00:37:23,127 --> 00:37:24,387 So I can load iTunes, right? 713 00:37:24,387 --> 00:37:25,707 I could say backup my phone. 714 00:37:25,977 --> 00:37:29,577 I think it does capture all that data though, so 715 00:37:29,747 --> 00:37:30,012 W. Curtis Preston: does. 716 00:37:30,012 --> 00:37:31,662 It doesn't solve my photo problem though, 717 00:37:32,997 --> 00:37:34,227 Prasanna Malaiyandi: No, it doesn't solve well. 718 00:37:34,872 --> 00:37:38,292 W. Curtis Preston: because my phone doesn't have the, the high res copies. 719 00:37:38,382 --> 00:37:38,712 Right. 720 00:37:39,357 --> 00:37:39,777 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Yep. 721 00:37:40,662 --> 00:37:43,722 W. Curtis Preston: I wi here's what I wish, I wish there was a cloud service 722 00:37:43,722 --> 00:37:49,662 that I could pay that would be able to export my high res photos out of, uh, I. 723 00:37:50,502 --> 00:37:51,342 And just back it up. 724 00:37:51,342 --> 00:37:54,672 I pay for that service, but they don't make it available. 725 00:37:55,392 --> 00:37:58,542 They don't make those, um, the high res copies. 726 00:37:58,602 --> 00:38:04,422 I think I can sync them to my laptop, but then I need, I need a lot of storage. 727 00:38:05,527 --> 00:38:06,017 Prasanna Malaiyandi: yeah, 728 00:38:06,492 --> 00:38:09,312 W. Curtis Preston: I have, I have no idea how many terabytes 729 00:38:09,317 --> 00:38:12,432 of photos I have up in iCloud. 730 00:38:13,152 --> 00:38:18,372 Um, I know for a fact that I would need a separate drive. 731 00:38:19,947 --> 00:38:20,437 Prasanna Malaiyandi: yeah. 732 00:38:21,147 --> 00:38:24,867 W. Curtis Preston: but, but basically, so regarding mobile 733 00:38:24,867 --> 00:38:27,147 devices, my opinion is the same. 734 00:38:27,507 --> 00:38:33,867 If you're creating data on these devices that is important to you, and it's only 735 00:38:33,867 --> 00:38:38,067 on that device or only in the cloud, uh, you should back up that data. 736 00:38:38,217 --> 00:38:41,907 And yes, I, I know, I know I need to listen to my own, my own 737 00:38:41,907 --> 00:38:43,857 advice regarding the, the photos. 738 00:38:44,697 --> 00:38:52,152 Um, But if this is corporate data, uh, you get, you get no, you get no grace. 739 00:38:52,302 --> 00:38:53,142 Uh, right. 740 00:38:53,352 --> 00:38:58,302 Um, I can think of, I worked with an engineering company in St. 741 00:38:58,302 --> 00:39:05,682 Louis, um, and, uh, they, they basically, they would send 742 00:39:05,682 --> 00:39:08,202 people out into the field with. 743 00:39:08,832 --> 00:39:11,712 iPads and they would take pictures of jobs. 744 00:39:11,982 --> 00:39:14,802 Those, you know, those were photos that needed to be backed up. 745 00:39:14,802 --> 00:39:18,132 Those were corporate data that existed only in those tablets 746 00:39:18,132 --> 00:39:19,152 and only in those accounts. 747 00:39:19,152 --> 00:39:19,392 Right. 748 00:39:20,382 --> 00:39:27,612 Um, so you would have to, anyway, I, I don't want to, I don't want to, but 749 00:39:27,612 --> 00:39:31,842 my point is, if it's data that's being created and is, it exists only in 750 00:39:31,842 --> 00:39:33,522 one place, it needs to be backed up. 751 00:39:33,882 --> 00:39:34,212 Right. 752 00:39:34,632 --> 00:39:35,592 Prasanna Malaiyandi: And it's important to you? 753 00:39:35,967 --> 00:39:37,077 W. Curtis Preston: And it's important to you, right? 754 00:39:37,077 --> 00:39:38,607 If it's data that doesn't matter. 755 00:39:38,682 --> 00:39:38,922 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Yeah. 756 00:39:39,927 --> 00:39:41,097 W. Curtis Preston: I just dunno what that data 757 00:39:41,232 --> 00:39:41,982 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Don't back it up. 758 00:39:42,162 --> 00:39:42,552 Yeah. 759 00:39:43,017 --> 00:39:44,877 W. Curtis Preston: Is there data that doesn't matter? 760 00:39:47,022 --> 00:39:48,042 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Well, I was thinking. 761 00:39:49,792 --> 00:39:53,397 Like if you didn't care about like random pictures you're taking or if 762 00:39:53,397 --> 00:39:57,297 you're taking, say, a picture of a document just for convenience sake, 763 00:39:58,197 --> 00:39:59,247 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah, yeah, 764 00:39:59,247 --> 00:39:59,667 Prasanna Malaiyandi: to someone. 765 00:40:00,027 --> 00:40:00,537 W. Curtis Preston: yeah. 766 00:40:00,807 --> 00:40:05,277 If you're only using it to send the, you know, you take the picture and then you 767 00:40:05,277 --> 00:40:08,727 send it to the other person and they're the recipient of the picture, then 768 00:40:08,732 --> 00:40:10,257 that document doesn't matter anymore. 769 00:40:10,677 --> 00:40:11,187 Um, 770 00:40:11,257 --> 00:40:11,747 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Yeah. 771 00:40:12,807 --> 00:40:13,317 W. Curtis Preston: yeah. 772 00:40:13,437 --> 00:40:16,467 Uh, there is this concept, by the way that I mentioned in here of 773 00:40:16,472 --> 00:40:20,007 mobile device management, which you really should think about. 774 00:40:20,007 --> 00:40:25,017 So if you're, so it's very common as I do, it's very common to use your. 775 00:40:26,262 --> 00:40:28,812 Cell phone at work. 776 00:40:29,082 --> 00:40:29,562 Right. 777 00:40:29,562 --> 00:40:34,512 It's very common for companies not to buy, uh, mobile phones anymore. 778 00:40:34,512 --> 00:40:34,812 Right. 779 00:40:35,502 --> 00:40:41,262 But if, um, if you are concerned about the security implications of that, that's what 780 00:40:41,262 --> 00:40:43,392 mobile device management is for, right? 781 00:40:44,202 --> 00:40:44,382 You c 782 00:40:44,577 --> 00:40:45,747 Prasanna Malaiyandi: And it's corporate data, right? 783 00:40:45,747 --> 00:40:48,507 You wanna make sure that if something happens to the phone, like it's 784 00:40:48,507 --> 00:40:52,317 lost or whatever else, you could protect your corporate data and 785 00:40:52,317 --> 00:40:54,207 remote wipe the device, et cetera. 786 00:40:54,492 --> 00:40:55,152 W. Curtis Preston: Exactly. 787 00:40:55,332 --> 00:40:56,052 Exactly. 788 00:40:56,172 --> 00:41:01,452 Uh, and it also, it also creates like a, like almost, I don't know, it's like 789 00:41:01,452 --> 00:41:04,122 a virtu, it's like a vpc, you know? 790 00:41:04,272 --> 00:41:06,612 Uh, inside the phone, A sandbox. 791 00:41:06,792 --> 00:41:07,962 That's a better, that's a better term. 792 00:41:07,992 --> 00:41:11,262 Creates a sandbox in the phone where you can put corporate apps. 793 00:41:11,802 --> 00:41:13,482 Uh, yeah, exactly. 794 00:41:13,782 --> 00:41:15,192 Uh, and you can make your own rules. 795 00:41:15,852 --> 00:41:18,792 Um, Back up, all the things. 796 00:41:18,822 --> 00:41:24,282 Um, I'm gonna pull, I'm gonna, I'm gonna go to the last page in the chapter 797 00:41:24,312 --> 00:41:27,372 cuz I've, I've got final thoughts in the chapter and I wonder what I said. 798 00:41:29,742 --> 00:41:30,372 Um, 799 00:41:30,657 --> 00:41:33,717 Prasanna Malaiyandi: I think it is really, and here's the thing. 800 00:41:33,722 --> 00:41:36,567 I know we talked about if it's important, back it up. 801 00:41:37,047 --> 00:41:40,077 I think the flip side is if you don't know what data is important 802 00:41:40,077 --> 00:41:41,307 or not, back up everything. 803 00:41:43,662 --> 00:41:44,352 W. Curtis Preston: Exactly 804 00:41:44,547 --> 00:41:45,597 Prasanna Malaiyandi: safe than sorry. 805 00:41:46,917 --> 00:41:47,277 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah. 806 00:41:47,367 --> 00:41:51,207 What I, what I did mention here is that some companies are adopting 807 00:41:51,207 --> 00:41:55,467 a sync and share tool as their backup method for their laptops. 808 00:41:55,467 --> 00:41:59,577 And I did mention in the, in the, um, in the chapter that, 809 00:41:59,577 --> 00:42:01,077 that that was a bad idea. 810 00:42:01,557 --> 00:42:06,537 Um, if it's corporate data and I can, basically, the problem with 811 00:42:06,537 --> 00:42:10,167 sync and share is if I delete it on my laptop, I delete it in the cloud. 812 00:42:11,097 --> 00:42:15,702 Um, if, if you've got a solution for that particular problem, a good 813 00:42:16,292 --> 00:42:19,632 solution to be able to restore that customer's account, that user's 814 00:42:19,632 --> 00:42:23,592 account, and my laptop, back to the way it looked before something happened. 815 00:42:23,592 --> 00:42:27,042 Because now what we're talking about is things like ransomware, right? 816 00:42:27,192 --> 00:42:30,762 Sync and share is a great way to put ransomware in the cloud, right? 817 00:42:31,332 --> 00:42:35,712 Um, you know, encrypt all those stuff on your, on your desktop and then 818 00:42:35,712 --> 00:42:38,742 your encrypt, and then it's just gonna synchronize it up, up to the cloud. 819 00:42:40,017 --> 00:42:41,847 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Now, here's a question. 820 00:42:41,847 --> 00:42:45,207 I know we'll probably talk about it in the SaaS chapter, but for that sync and 821 00:42:45,207 --> 00:42:50,277 share solution, if they were taking copies of those, the data that existed in the 822 00:42:50,277 --> 00:42:53,127 cloud backups of the data that existed in the cloud, would that change your mind? 823 00:42:56,187 --> 00:43:03,357 W. Curtis Preston: Um, if you could, yeah, I, I think in general. 824 00:43:03,362 --> 00:43:04,467 In general, yes. 825 00:43:04,467 --> 00:43:04,917 Right. 826 00:43:04,917 --> 00:43:07,977 But in general, what I'm finding is that's not the point. 827 00:43:08,292 --> 00:43:08,442 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Yeah. 828 00:43:08,442 --> 00:43:09,492 No, yeah, exactly. 829 00:43:09,492 --> 00:43:10,562 No one's really doing 830 00:43:10,722 --> 00:43:12,732 W. Curtis Preston: they're saying, they're saying, well, we're 831 00:43:12,732 --> 00:43:15,222 trying to save money, right? 832 00:43:15,222 --> 00:43:16,932 And so we're not gonna back up laptops. 833 00:43:16,932 --> 00:43:18,312 We're just gonna use OneDrive. 834 00:43:18,372 --> 00:43:20,172 Well, you're backing up OneDrive, right? 835 00:43:20,502 --> 00:43:23,412 Well, no, because it's Microsoft and it's a SaaS service. 836 00:43:23,862 --> 00:43:24,732 You're wrong. 837 00:43:25,542 --> 00:43:27,732 You're just plain wrong. 838 00:43:27,902 --> 00:43:28,462 Right? 839 00:43:28,872 --> 00:43:31,422 Just Google the Microsoft. 840 00:43:32,232 --> 00:43:33,942 Shared responsibility model. 841 00:43:33,942 --> 00:43:38,862 Read the page, the information and data, your responsibility, not theirs. 842 00:43:39,402 --> 00:43:42,492 It's plain as day on their website. 843 00:43:43,002 --> 00:43:46,032 So stop telling me that you don't need to back up. 844 00:43:46,392 --> 00:43:47,652 Uh, OneDrive. 845 00:43:48,702 --> 00:43:55,032 Um, but um, yeah, so, so yeah. 846 00:43:55,032 --> 00:44:01,407 So, so to go back to your question though, if you're backing up, Um, you 847 00:44:01,412 --> 00:44:08,067 know, the cloud that you're syncing to, to something else, then, you know, 848 00:44:08,067 --> 00:44:10,197 maybe I would withdraw my objection. 849 00:44:10,827 --> 00:44:13,407 Um, well, I, I withdraw my objection. 850 00:44:13,407 --> 00:44:16,257 I just, it's maybe I might have a different objection. 851 00:44:16,827 --> 00:44:17,187 Right. 852 00:44:17,247 --> 00:44:17,727 Um, 853 00:44:17,752 --> 00:44:17,877 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Yeah, 854 00:44:18,807 --> 00:44:19,167 W. Curtis Preston: but, uh, 855 00:44:19,737 --> 00:44:22,137 Prasanna Malaiyandi: it's just how it's being implemented would be the question. 856 00:44:22,722 --> 00:44:23,682 W. Curtis Preston: Right, right. 857 00:44:23,772 --> 00:44:27,672 Um, would we get all the data? 858 00:44:27,822 --> 00:44:31,512 Obviously there's a potential of data loss there depending on how well the 859 00:44:31,512 --> 00:44:34,662 synchronization is happening because here's my problem with OneDrive, 860 00:44:35,022 --> 00:44:40,952 specifically OneDrive, is that there are no global controls over how 861 00:44:41,472 --> 00:44:43,842 synchronization works or if it works. 862 00:44:44,562 --> 00:44:49,062 So there's no, there's no console that says all of my users are sync. 863 00:44:50,522 --> 00:44:54,237 That's, to me as a, as a practitioner, that's terrifying. 864 00:44:54,927 --> 00:44:55,287 Right. 865 00:44:55,287 --> 00:44:56,997 And so this goes back to your question. 866 00:44:58,077 --> 00:45:03,177 So it, you're still relying on the synchronization process of OneDrive, 867 00:45:03,177 --> 00:45:09,177 which for the record can be de can be deactivated by any user at any time. 868 00:45:10,107 --> 00:45:14,157 And not only can it be deactivated, and I've heard that you can deactivate 869 00:45:14,157 --> 00:45:17,067 that ability, if I've heard you can turn on off that ability. 870 00:45:18,672 --> 00:45:21,462 They just have to like, not connect to the internet. 871 00:45:21,522 --> 00:45:25,692 They could connect to the internet for a long time or not connect to 365, right? 872 00:45:25,692 --> 00:45:26,322 Or whatever. 873 00:45:26,802 --> 00:45:32,982 Um, the, the, the fact that there's no global view for me to see that everybody 874 00:45:32,982 --> 00:45:37,962 is syncing and then for me to notice, oh, Prasanna hasn't synced in a week. 875 00:45:37,962 --> 00:45:38,972 What's, what's, what's going on? 876 00:45:38,972 --> 00:45:39,442 Prasanna? 877 00:45:39,442 --> 00:45:41,502 And you're like, oh, well my network card died. 878 00:45:41,562 --> 00:45:43,902 Oh, well perhaps we should get you a new network 879 00:45:44,067 --> 00:45:44,547 Prasanna Malaiyandi: fix that. 880 00:45:45,177 --> 00:45:45,627 Yeah. 881 00:45:45,792 --> 00:45:48,582 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah, my, my home internet went out because I live in 882 00:45:48,582 --> 00:45:55,212 the Bay Area and we've been having background, little, little, little bit 883 00:45:55,212 --> 00:45:58,002 of a rain up there and down here as well. 884 00:45:58,007 --> 00:45:59,442 It was raining quite a bit this morning. 885 00:46:00,762 --> 00:46:01,392 How's the weather right 886 00:46:01,497 --> 00:46:04,467 Prasanna Malaiyandi: more than the rain was, it's nice and sunny. 887 00:46:04,557 --> 00:46:05,337 Or it was sunny. 888 00:46:05,337 --> 00:46:08,157 Now it's overcast, but no rain until next week. 889 00:46:08,157 --> 00:46:12,297 But yeah, I think it was a 50 mile per hour gusts yesterday 890 00:46:12,367 --> 00:46:15,807 that sort of did a lot of things or brought a lot of things down. 891 00:46:15,807 --> 00:46:16,227 So, 892 00:46:16,317 --> 00:46:20,007 W. Curtis Preston: Speaking of the 50 mile per hour gust, uh, I believe that you 893 00:46:20,067 --> 00:46:24,387 solved our blueberry, uh, mystery as well. 894 00:46:25,242 --> 00:46:28,962 Um, remember I was saying that I had these blueberry 895 00:46:29,067 --> 00:46:29,567 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Oh, yeah, 896 00:46:29,622 --> 00:46:32,562 W. Curtis Preston: over my, all over both cars and all over the driveway. 897 00:46:33,072 --> 00:46:37,692 Uh, we looked, and they're not actual blueberries, but they're blueberries. 898 00:46:37,697 --> 00:46:38,652 They're not blueberries. 899 00:46:39,162 --> 00:46:44,082 Uh, but yeah, the neighbor, the neighbor house over has a tree. 900 00:46:44,542 --> 00:46:45,622 With little blueberries in it. 901 00:46:45,952 --> 00:46:50,002 And so it must have been the gusts, all the gusts that we had, they must have 902 00:46:50,002 --> 00:46:54,892 just been blown over and we just were the unfortunate recipients of all of those. 903 00:46:56,242 --> 00:46:57,922 They just went everywhere. 904 00:46:58,462 --> 00:46:59,362 And it was like, what? 905 00:46:59,752 --> 00:47:01,762 At first we thought they were birds, right? 906 00:47:01,767 --> 00:47:04,222 But it was like, man did an entire flock of birds at eight 907 00:47:04,222 --> 00:47:06,322 berries just fly over our house. 908 00:47:08,332 --> 00:47:08,752 Yeah. 909 00:47:09,302 --> 00:47:09,912 Anyway. 910 00:47:09,927 --> 00:47:11,217 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Uh, Curtis. 911 00:47:11,532 --> 00:47:12,312 W. Curtis Preston: Absolutely. 912 00:47:12,342 --> 00:47:15,912 All right, well thanks, uh, thanks again, Prasanna for chatting 913 00:47:15,912 --> 00:47:17,142 about our favorite subject. 914 00:47:18,387 --> 00:47:21,807 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Thank you for educating me on or enlighten 915 00:47:21,807 --> 00:47:23,877 me on bare metal restores. 916 00:47:24,327 --> 00:47:25,137 See, I learn something 917 00:47:25,602 --> 00:47:31,272 W. Curtis Preston: back in the day, um, yeah, we used to do, I used 918 00:47:31,272 --> 00:47:33,492 to do, do you remember ZIP drives? 919 00:47:34,587 --> 00:47:34,827 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Yep. 920 00:47:35,277 --> 00:47:39,207 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah, so I used to do a bare metal backup of my Linux laptop, 921 00:47:39,807 --> 00:47:45,057 and we could do it with windows too, uh, of, of the, of an Intel based laptop. 922 00:47:45,507 --> 00:47:49,797 Uh, with zip drive, basically you would, you would boot, you would boot. 923 00:47:49,797 --> 00:47:55,917 You needed a floppy, you needed a floppy, you would boot, you had a mini route 924 00:47:55,947 --> 00:47:59,007 that was on the floppy, like Tom's, Archie, bt, you remember that one. 925 00:47:59,547 --> 00:48:02,427 Um, you would boot, you would put that on the floppy. 926 00:48:02,427 --> 00:48:03,327 You'd boot to. 927 00:48:03,957 --> 00:48:09,057 The zip drive would have, you could read the zip drive, uh, 928 00:48:09,537 --> 00:48:11,337 and you would actually use dd. 929 00:48:11,337 --> 00:48:14,667 You would use DD to, to, which 930 00:48:14,772 --> 00:48:15,432 Prasanna Malaiyandi: bring the data 931 00:48:15,572 --> 00:48:17,412 W. Curtis Preston: I don't know what Didi stood for. 932 00:48:17,412 --> 00:48:18,522 Direct disk. 933 00:48:18,612 --> 00:48:19,212 I don't know. 934 00:48:19,782 --> 00:48:22,092 Uh, it was a Unix command and you could do it. 935 00:48:22,092 --> 00:48:26,142 Basically it was a block to block copy of the drive and you 936 00:48:26,142 --> 00:48:27,882 created a file on the zip drive. 937 00:48:27,887 --> 00:48:31,032 And that's how I used to do Bemo on my laptops back in 938 00:48:31,032 --> 00:48:34,452 the day, uh, back in the day. 939 00:48:34,842 --> 00:48:38,952 Well, hey, thanks to the listeners for sticking with us this far, and remember to 940 00:48:38,952 --> 00:48:41,562 subscribe so that you can restore it all.