The challenge of change

Ross: [00:00:00] Hi there at the very warm. Welcome to Season six, episode 33 of People's Soup. It's Ross Macintosh here.

pea, soupers. Were back this week. It's a cup of soup, a short episode where I look at the challenge of change. And why we keep hitting the snooze button on what we'd really like to achieve. This episode is inspired by a paper by friend of the show, Ian Tyndall from the University of Chichester and Ruth Ann Feld from the Chicago School of Professional Psychology.

You'll hear me cover various things in this episode from an example of an HR leader responsible for the rollout of our wellbeing program. looking at the workplace as a system of reinforcement, recognizing that behavior doesn't happen in isolation.

and illustrating how acceptance and commitment therapy can support behavior change at work.

[00:01:00] People. Soup is a podcast that mixes it stories, science and a sprinkle of daftness to explore what helps people thrive at work and in life. Our mission is to give you the listener, the ingredients for a better work life through insights and stories grounded in behavioral science, especially acceptance and commitment therapy, and other evidence-based approaches.

Before we dive in, let's scoot over to the news desk. Those P supers with enhanced noticing skills might have spotted that we'd been off the air since August. The summer break kind of ran away with itself. Sadly, my dear dad known to many listeners as Big G has been facing a variety of health challenges since his 90th birthday In May.

I've been back and forward to the UK to support him as best I can. As he navigates his final transition, We've shared some big conversations, perhaps the biggest conversations one human can have with another. For me, these conversations are a bit like [00:02:00] entering an unfamiliar, poorly lit room. We step into this space together and rest there for a while, sharing words, memories, and reflections. Supporting each other.

And then by mutual agreement, we step back out into the corridor of everyday routines. Each return to that poorly lit room feels a little more familiar. we revisit old themes, uncover new insights. And alongside the sadness, there's deep appreciation, love, and even humor. on one of our recent visits to that room, dad asked me, do you get nervous before delivering a workshop?

My answer was, hell yeah, sometimes more than others. That led me to reflect again on the values I try to bring into my work How many of those qualities are gifts from both my mom and dad, but that's the subject for another episode.

By the time you hear this, I'll be back in Newcastle visiting Dad. Whilst I'm striving to look after my own health, one thing that keeps me going is that my [00:03:00] work continues to hold such meaning for me and dad is still so proud and interested in what I'm doing.

So if you do fancy having a chat about potential work or coaching, please do get in touch. I am available and we can set up a conversation One thing coming up soon that I'm excited about is a live q and a session I'll be doing on Thursday the 23rd of October with a fabulous Joe Oliver at Contextual Consulting. You can join me for this 90 minute session where we'll discuss strategies for introducing act to organizations, how to get buy-in with leaders, how you can use ACT to inform your stance as a facilitator and how to take those first steps.

You can submit your questions in advance and I think it'll be a fun, informative, and lively session. You'll find a link in the show notes to reserve your place.

So for now, get a brew on and have a listen to my reflections on change.

[00:04:00] whether it's building a safety culture, improving wellbeing, or supporting people with the introduction of a new computer system. Change sounds simple, but it rarely is. Why is it so hard to act on what we know is good for us and our workplace, and how can we make change more likely to stick to support this exploration? I'll of course be leaning on insights from acceptance and commitment therapy, particularly on that paper I mentioned at the top of the show Called Why We Are Not Acting, to Save Ourselves

by Tyndall and Rael.

Let's start with a scene that might sound familiar. Meet Chris, an HR leader and an organization responsible for the rollout of our Wellbeing at Work program. there are mindfulness workshops, a job crafting handbook, yoga classes, step counting competitions, and much more.

But a few months in Chris notices. Not much has changed. People are still skipping breaks, cramming in a lunchtime sandwich while sitting in front of their screens working late [00:05:00] and sending emails at midnight. Chris si and says, we know better. Why aren't we doing better? That's the paradox of behavior change.

research shows that most of us already know the behaviors that help us thrive, whether it's exercise, setting boundaries, eating well, sleep hygiene, and connecting with others. Those behaviors can also include tackling that tricky report, submitting invoices or expenses, preparing that important presentation and having that difficult conversation.

Yet knowledge doesn't automatically translate into action. The psychologist, BF Skinner put it perfectly back in the eighties and he said The more remote the consequences, the less likely we are to act on them. and ain't that the truth pays supers. So we're less likely to stick to behaviors that support our longer term health in the broadest sense at work, we're wired to respond to what's immediate. that email that's flagged as urgent. That [00:06:00] meeting, that means I miss my lunchtime walk that thought that I can start tomorrow when it will be less busy.

of course. It's never less busy tomorrow. So even when a company says, take care of yourself, our behavior system says, sure, right after I finish this report, here's another truth from behavioral science. Workplaces are systems of reinforcement. Every behavior helpful or unhelpful is shaped by its consequences in that system.

If employees get praised for staying late, or if leaders only notice productivity, then no amount of wellness talk will change behavior. The system is rewarding. The opposite The paper by Tyndall and Feld reminds us that behavior doesn't happen in isolation. It happens in context. And changing behavior means changing context. How we frame actions, what we reinforce, And how we handle the inner experiences that show up when we try to do something [00:07:00] new.

This Dear Listener, is where ACT comes in.

Acceptance and commitment therapy is designed to cultivate psychological flexibility. That is the ability to stay open, present, and guided by our values. Even when it's uncomfortable. When we're psychologically flexible, we can notice our thoughts and emotions without getting trapped or derailed by them.

Let's go back to Chris's workplace. One of her team members, Tom wants to speak up about burnout, but keeps thinking if I say something, I'm gonna look weak. That thought isn't the problem. It's normal. the issue is cognitive fusion.

when we treat that thought as a literal truth. In ACT, we learn to diffuse from our thoughts to see them as words, not facts. once Tom notices that thought, he can use a technique from act by putting a phrase in front of it. And that phrase would be, I notice that I'm having the thought that.

[00:08:00] So if we put that together with Tom's original thought, we'd be saying, I noticed that. I'm having the thought that if I say something, I'm gonna look weak.

and by applying this technique, it can help Tom get a bit of space between himself and that thought and recognize it for what it is. Not a hundred percent true and not a hundred percent worthy of his full attention. He then has the space to act on his values of honesty and care for the team and raise their issue of burnout.

that small shift from avoidance to values led action. It's like the engine of change.

One of the key insights from the paper is that experiential avoidance often keeps us stuck. That's the tendency to avoid uncomfortable feelings. Things like anxiety, guilt, and fear, even when it costs us in the long run in workplaces, experiential avoidance might look like avoiding tough conversations because they feel awkward Saying yes to everything, to dodge, the guilt of [00:09:00] disappointing others. ignoring feedback, because it stings. These are all relatable human responses, and they block growth. Instead of trying to eliminate those feelings, act invites us to make space for them. You can feel anxious and still act in line with your values.

It's not about being fearless, it's about being willing. So that's what Chris eventually tried in their team. Instead of another wellness campaign, they started a weekly values in action conversation. Each person picked one small behavior linked to their values, like leaving on time to be with their family and practice, noticing the thoughts that got in the way.

at first. People joked about it, but over time something shifted. It became more normal to talk about inner barriers and support each other's values, LED goals.

One of the most powerful ideas in the paper is that we need culture wide interventions alongside the individual ones, In other words, don't just tell employees to be [00:10:00] flexible. Build a workplace that supports flexibility. That means framing messages around shared values, not fear.

So it's saying, imagine how good you'll feel having energy at 4:00 PM if you take that lunchtime walk instead of, you'll burn out if you don't exercise. Creating reinforcement systems that reward behaviors aligned with those values, we celebrate leaving on time when that supports balance making space for mindfulness or reflection in the flow of daily work, not just in special workshops. I think of it as a pause and I distinguish between a macro pause and a micro pauses.

the macro pause could be a regular Friday diary appointment where we reflect on the week, how we've expressed our values and look forward towards the coming week. And then there's the micro pause getting used to catching ourselves in flight and if necessary, adjusting our trajectory depending on the context in which we find ourselves.

And don't [00:11:00] forget, leaders play a critical role. when leaders model openness, admitting uncertainty, sharing mistakes, or showing compassion, they're shaping the reinforcement landscape for everyone else.

Here's a small, practical example that captures all these principles. It's one I've introduced in a fair few workplaces.

at an agency in the public service. Leaders were noticing that meetings were draining energy and focus. they introduced a two minute arrive and notice ritual. At the start of each meeting, everyone paused.

Took a breath and silently noted, what's one thing on my mind right now and what do I want to stand for in this meeting? At first it felt awkward, but after a few weeks, people reported fewer interruptions, more thoughtful dialogue, and less post-meeting fatigue. Why? Because that ritual helps people diffuse from their automatic thoughts and reconnect with their values, collaboration, respect, and presence.

[00:12:00] Now that's act in action. Small context shaping moves that ripple through the culture. So if you are leading change at work, whether it's about health inclusion, safety, new computer systems, or wellbeing, remember this. Behavior change isn't about forcing people to be different. It's about creating contexts where flexible values-driven behavior is easier. When we stop fighting our inner experiences and start moving towards what matters, we open the door to real sustainable change for ourselves, our teams, and our organizations.

So let's just look back at the key takeaways. Change fails when consequences are too distant, or systems reward. The Old Behaviors Act helps by building psychological flexibility, awareness, openness, and values-based action. Sustainable work-based change means aligning reinforcement and culture with values, And finally start small. One conversation, one mindful pause. One. Values based action at a [00:13:00] time.

Ross: That's it. Peace supers my reflection on the challenge of change in the bag. you'll find the show notes for this episode at People Soup Captivate fm or wherever you get your podcasts. If you like this episode, we'd love it if you told us why. You can email that to people soup dot pod@gmail.com. And on the socials, I'm still posting on Instagram at People Soup, and I'm on LinkedIn too, as well as a new account on Blue Sky.

Just search for my name. Now more than ever, you can help me reach more people with the special people, soup ingredients, stuff that could be really useful for them. So please do share, subscribe, rate, and review. Thanks to Andy Glenn for his spoon magic and Alex Engelberg for his vocals.

But most of all, dear listener, thanks to you, look after yourselves, peace supers and bye for now.

And don't forget, leaders play a [00:14:00] critical role. when leaders model openness, admitting uncertainty, sharing mistakes, or showing compassion, they're shaping the reinforcement landscape for everyone else.