1 00:00:00,050 --> 00:00:03,740 you found the backup wrap up your go-to podcast for all things 2 00:00:03,740 --> 00:00:05,705 backup recovery and cyber recovery. 3 00:00:06,559 --> 00:00:10,939 In this episode, we look at social engineering tactics in our analysis 4 00:00:10,939 --> 00:00:15,410 of the Mr. Robot Series persona, and I will break down how one character 5 00:00:15,410 --> 00:00:19,309 uses Instagram stalking, personal information gathering, and even 6 00:00:19,309 --> 00:00:23,839 sleeping with somebody to compromise their phone and steal sensitive emails. 7 00:00:24,500 --> 00:00:30,890 We also talk about, uh, how cybersecurity budgets, low ones, like the $7,000 budget 8 00:00:30,890 --> 00:00:35,385 they talk about in the show, create vulnerabilities that hackers will exploit. 9 00:00:36,470 --> 00:00:39,890 We look at how social engineering attacks work, what you can do to 10 00:00:39,890 --> 00:00:41,960 protect yourself and your organization. 11 00:00:42,440 --> 00:00:46,639 By the way, if you don't know who I am, I'm w Curtis Preston, AKA, Mr. 12 00:00:46,639 --> 00:00:51,949 Backup, and I've been passionate about backup and recovery for over 30 years. 13 00:00:52,309 --> 00:00:52,820 Ever since. 14 00:00:52,820 --> 00:00:57,410 I had to tell my boss that there were no backups of that database we just lost. 15 00:00:58,040 --> 00:01:00,740 I don't want that to happen to you, and that's why I do this. 16 00:01:01,130 --> 00:01:06,259 On this podcast, we turn unappreciated backup admins into cyber recovery heroes. 17 00:01:06,590 --> 00:01:08,630 This is the backup wrap up. 18 00:01:22,809 --> 00:01:23,769 Welcome to the show. 19 00:01:24,339 --> 00:01:28,599 Hi, I am w Curtis Preston, AKA, Mr. Backup, and I have with me a guy who 20 00:01:28,599 --> 00:01:34,059 is also celebrating the return of the Tesla Prasanna Malaiyandi How's it going? 21 00:01:34,059 --> 00:01:34,619 Prasanna, 22 00:01:34,854 --> 00:01:36,414 I was like, what am I celebrating? 23 00:01:36,474 --> 00:01:37,794 It's, I'm 24 00:01:37,869 --> 00:01:39,849 return of the Tesla, it's all back. 25 00:01:40,674 --> 00:01:43,314 you got it back and then you had to put it back and then you got it back again. 26 00:01:43,804 --> 00:01:45,549 I did, I had to put it back. 27 00:01:45,954 --> 00:01:46,374 Or give 28 00:01:46,389 --> 00:01:46,869 uh. 29 00:01:46,974 --> 00:01:47,244 say. 30 00:01:47,424 --> 00:01:50,994 Yeah, the, the hood, the hood was slightly misaligned and then, and 31 00:01:50,994 --> 00:01:55,344 then, and there was some, some clear, clear coat over spray on a 32 00:01:55,344 --> 00:01:56,664 completely different part of the car. 33 00:01:56,664 --> 00:02:00,654 So like, it was, I guess the wind or something took some that was, that was 34 00:02:00,654 --> 00:02:02,544 not, I wasn't very happy about that. 35 00:02:02,909 --> 00:02:03,029 I, 36 00:02:03,324 --> 00:02:06,324 be spraying outdoors just saying. 37 00:02:07,464 --> 00:02:08,574 So today we're gonna 38 00:02:08,994 --> 00:02:09,084 Yeah, 39 00:02:09,294 --> 00:02:11,514 series on Mr. Robot, 40 00:02:12,084 --> 00:02:13,014 Mr. Robots. 41 00:02:13,194 --> 00:02:14,799 and we are today on. 42 00:02:15,804 --> 00:02:18,174 Episode three, which is 43 00:02:19,224 --> 00:02:19,944 1.2. 44 00:02:20,004 --> 00:02:24,814 1.2, according to their naming, labeled debug M kv. 45 00:02:25,729 --> 00:02:26,119 Yeah. 46 00:02:26,344 --> 00:02:29,014 me about the numbering, but it all gets confusing, so 47 00:02:29,089 --> 00:02:30,019 it all starts at zero. 48 00:02:30,469 --> 00:02:30,709 Yeah. 49 00:02:31,129 --> 00:02:33,799 So normal people call it episode three. 50 00:02:34,189 --> 00:02:36,529 Uh, that's why I'm saying episode 1.2. 51 00:02:36,929 --> 00:02:41,489 He wakes up in hospital after being dumped off the pier, uh, from Mr. Robot. 52 00:02:41,909 --> 00:02:46,079 And, uh, you know, he's obviously, uh, uh, upset. 53 00:02:46,359 --> 00:02:48,669 Angela shows up with his psychiatrist, 54 00:02:48,784 --> 00:02:49,654 Right, right. 55 00:02:49,989 --> 00:02:53,289 is like, I'm not gonna let you go because you're the one who called 56 00:02:53,289 --> 00:02:54,669 me and said, come, come, come. 57 00:02:54,924 --> 00:02:55,214 Yeah. 58 00:02:55,389 --> 00:02:59,109 And she's like, are you using, I need you to get a drug test every 59 00:02:59,109 --> 00:03:01,989 two weeks or whatever it is to make sure you're not still using, 60 00:03:02,379 --> 00:03:02,799 Yeah. 61 00:03:02,859 --> 00:03:03,549 gonna sign you out. 62 00:03:04,149 --> 00:03:04,539 Yeah. 63 00:03:04,599 --> 00:03:05,919 And he agrees to do that. 64 00:03:05,979 --> 00:03:09,249 But by drug test, what he means is I'm gonna hack the hospital and 65 00:03:09,564 --> 00:03:09,774 And, 66 00:03:09,789 --> 00:03:10,119 Yeah, 67 00:03:10,284 --> 00:03:13,674 how he has like, he tells someone, and then you have like the inner voice Go on. 68 00:03:13,899 --> 00:03:15,759 yeah, yeah, yeah. 69 00:03:15,759 --> 00:03:18,309 And he is like, this is the whole reason I chose this hospital. 70 00:03:18,819 --> 00:03:19,269 Right. 71 00:03:19,269 --> 00:03:22,389 Because there's a guy that, um. 72 00:03:23,124 --> 00:03:28,464 You know, the IT guy, he says, I, I heard $7,000 a year, but I think it was seven. 73 00:03:28,464 --> 00:03:29,094 I think you're right. 74 00:03:29,094 --> 00:03:30,474 It's $70,000 a year. 75 00:03:30,894 --> 00:03:33,894 Um, and he, and he, he's not that impressed with the guy's skills. 76 00:03:33,969 --> 00:03:34,059 And, 77 00:03:34,314 --> 00:03:36,204 Um, or the budget, I guess he said. 78 00:03:36,429 --> 00:03:37,329 95, I 79 00:03:37,494 --> 00:03:38,154 Yeah, yeah. 80 00:03:38,154 --> 00:03:38,994 Something like that. 81 00:03:39,039 --> 00:03:39,309 yeah. 82 00:03:39,384 --> 00:03:45,504 And, um, so he, so he gets outta the hospital and, um, he tries 83 00:03:45,504 --> 00:03:50,054 to go back to what he, normal and then he goes, he gets invited to, 84 00:03:50,084 --> 00:03:52,244 uh, a dinner party with his boss. 85 00:03:52,784 --> 00:03:58,874 Um, and he, he brings the girl that he kind of rescued from drugs or 86 00:03:59,024 --> 00:04:03,554 sort of rescued Yeah, his neighbor, uh, as his girlfriend, although they 87 00:04:03,554 --> 00:04:06,704 don't, they're not really girlfriend to boyfriend to this dinner party. 88 00:04:07,364 --> 00:04:10,274 And he's at the dinner party? 89 00:04:10,604 --> 00:04:11,054 What, 90 00:04:11,054 --> 00:04:11,864 asked her two 91 00:04:12,044 --> 00:04:13,964 what he, he, yeah, I guess. 92 00:04:13,964 --> 00:04:14,594 I guess. 93 00:04:14,624 --> 00:04:15,014 Yeah. 94 00:04:15,734 --> 00:04:18,224 Um, and, um. 95 00:04:18,764 --> 00:04:21,284 Really awkward seeing when they ask him how long he's been, 96 00:04:21,404 --> 00:04:22,664 how long they've been together. 97 00:04:22,664 --> 00:04:23,924 He goes, uh, today 98 00:04:24,194 --> 00:04:24,494 Yeah. 99 00:04:24,584 --> 00:04:25,214 and 100 00:04:25,214 --> 00:04:27,914 did you see Angela just like pour the rest of the bottle 101 00:04:27,914 --> 00:04:28,154 yeah. 102 00:04:28,154 --> 00:04:28,334 Yeah. 103 00:04:28,814 --> 00:04:35,984 She just, so clearly Angela has feelings for him as well, or maybe concern. 104 00:04:35,984 --> 00:04:36,674 I don't know. 105 00:04:36,679 --> 00:04:37,679 We, we just don't know. 106 00:04:38,299 --> 00:04:41,654 But anyway, uh, and then you have the boss, which is Gideon. 107 00:04:42,074 --> 00:04:43,784 And the bosses. 108 00:04:44,024 --> 00:04:46,544 The bosses, he, he still wasn't sure. 109 00:04:46,839 --> 00:04:47,129 Yeah. 110 00:04:47,324 --> 00:04:48,134 About what happened. 111 00:04:48,134 --> 00:04:51,614 So he looked into what happened, and he came up with a story as to 112 00:04:51,614 --> 00:04:56,204 why he didn't tell 'em about the, the, you know, the, uh, that file. 113 00:04:56,294 --> 00:04:57,404 And then he hugs him. 114 00:04:57,884 --> 00:05:02,024 Um, and, but then the, the, the end of the episode is the episode. 115 00:05:02,074 --> 00:05:03,484 There's this big email hack. 116 00:05:04,084 --> 00:05:10,414 And the Terry Kolby is revealed to be behind and, and an Evil 117 00:05:10,414 --> 00:05:14,254 Corp is behind revealed to be behind this big toxic waste spill. 118 00:05:14,434 --> 00:05:16,804 Toxic waste, toxic waste spill, 119 00:05:16,879 --> 00:05:17,179 Yep. 120 00:05:17,374 --> 00:05:21,947 um, that ultimately resulted in the deaths of his dad and her mom. 121 00:05:22,024 --> 00:05:22,504 Um. 122 00:05:22,624 --> 00:05:25,924 That's actually when they finally say that's how the two of them met. 123 00:05:26,194 --> 00:05:26,434 Because the 124 00:05:26,644 --> 00:05:27,124 Right. 125 00:05:27,334 --> 00:05:29,164 how do these two know each other? 126 00:05:29,164 --> 00:05:29,854 Why are they, yeah. 127 00:05:29,854 --> 00:05:31,024 Why are they so close? 128 00:05:31,024 --> 00:05:31,954 And, yeah. 129 00:05:32,194 --> 00:05:32,524 Yeah. 130 00:05:32,824 --> 00:05:35,044 I think you're also missing one part. 131 00:05:35,519 --> 00:05:36,409 What part am I missing? 132 00:05:36,814 --> 00:05:39,064 happened in the this episode. 133 00:05:39,514 --> 00:05:39,844 Right? 134 00:05:39,844 --> 00:05:46,624 Because didn't Terrell find out information, right? 135 00:05:47,179 --> 00:05:47,479 yeah. 136 00:05:47,479 --> 00:05:51,109 Terrell, t. T, Terrell, Ty, Tyrell, I think it's Tyrell, right. 137 00:05:51,469 --> 00:05:54,889 Finds out that he's not going to be the CTO, right? 138 00:05:54,889 --> 00:05:55,774 Is that what you're talking about? 139 00:05:56,104 --> 00:06:00,364 And he basically, so I think that's an important part, right? 140 00:06:00,364 --> 00:06:04,984 Because as he's waiting, right, so he's supposed to have a meeting with the CEO. 141 00:06:05,654 --> 00:06:05,854 Yeah. 142 00:06:05,869 --> 00:06:09,229 And as he's like all pumped and ready to go, he goes into the 143 00:06:09,229 --> 00:06:13,309 CEO's like waiting area and the CEO comes out and says, I'm busy. 144 00:06:13,489 --> 00:06:13,609 I 145 00:06:13,654 --> 00:06:13,774 I. 146 00:06:13,849 --> 00:06:15,499 we have a good candidate for the CTO. 147 00:06:15,499 --> 00:06:17,239 And you just look at his face just like 148 00:06:17,794 --> 00:06:18,274 Yeah. 149 00:06:18,349 --> 00:06:19,399 all dejected. 150 00:06:19,699 --> 00:06:20,839 Now as you leave, I 151 00:06:20,859 --> 00:06:21,079 And, 152 00:06:21,109 --> 00:06:25,789 if you notice this, but he like to the assistant 153 00:06:26,404 --> 00:06:28,564 and he tells him to send the email to him directly. 154 00:06:28,849 --> 00:06:30,019 an email to him directly 155 00:06:31,444 --> 00:06:32,794 Why is it, why is that relevant? 156 00:06:32,929 --> 00:06:34,549 later in the episode. 157 00:06:35,339 --> 00:06:38,629 Because he got the email, he got the name of the person and 158 00:06:38,629 --> 00:06:39,919 then he starts looking him up. 159 00:06:40,369 --> 00:06:41,899 He tracked him on Instagram. 160 00:06:42,724 --> 00:06:44,884 He figured out where he was going to be. 161 00:06:45,094 --> 00:06:49,804 He showed up at the club and the dude's like, Hey, I didn't know you're into this. 162 00:06:49,804 --> 00:06:51,964 He's like, I'm not, I'm here just for you. 163 00:06:52,744 --> 00:06:55,594 ends up taking the guy home, right, 164 00:06:55,737 --> 00:07:02,307 So he sleeps with the guy to get, to get access to his phone, and 165 00:07:02,367 --> 00:07:04,917 it does appear that he's straight, 166 00:07:04,982 --> 00:07:05,202 Yep. 167 00:07:05,642 --> 00:07:10,317 we, we don't have any other evidence that he's not, and he sleeps with a guy to get 168 00:07:10,317 --> 00:07:13,317 access to his phone, which I'm gonna say. 169 00:07:13,902 --> 00:07:15,042 Is commitment, 170 00:07:15,312 --> 00:07:15,612 Yeah. 171 00:07:15,762 --> 00:07:16,242 Well, and he 172 00:07:16,302 --> 00:07:16,692 right? 173 00:07:16,722 --> 00:07:17,292 wife, right? 174 00:07:17,292 --> 00:07:18,822 He's like, I have business to go take 175 00:07:19,002 --> 00:07:19,812 Yeah, yeah. 176 00:07:19,812 --> 00:07:20,022 Yeah. 177 00:07:20,022 --> 00:07:21,702 He lies, lies to his wife. 178 00:07:22,092 --> 00:07:23,682 He had business, he had business. 179 00:07:23,682 --> 00:07:24,102 All right. 180 00:07:24,432 --> 00:07:25,272 Uh, so yeah. 181 00:07:25,272 --> 00:07:28,062 So I'm gonna, you know, I'll, I'll applaud him for his level of commitment 182 00:07:28,513 --> 00:07:33,078 and then, what he does is when the guy's out of the room, he basically steals 183 00:07:33,078 --> 00:07:37,938 the guy's phone, and then from there he basically installs a root kit on it. 184 00:07:38,028 --> 00:07:43,968 He makes it such that the phone can be remotely accessed and he later on uses 185 00:07:43,968 --> 00:07:46,368 that to be able to read all the emails. 186 00:07:46,368 --> 00:07:49,398 And this is the one thing I was surprised about right, is. 187 00:07:50,913 --> 00:07:55,773 Hopefully today most people have either biometrics or pins or something on 188 00:07:55,773 --> 00:08:00,663 their phones, so then when they are not available or around that, someone 189 00:08:00,663 --> 00:08:01,083 Yeah. 190 00:08:01,383 --> 00:08:03,423 open up their phone and start using it. 191 00:08:04,773 --> 00:08:04,953 Right. 192 00:08:05,853 --> 00:08:09,123 Well, he literally opens up his phone, right? 193 00:08:09,288 --> 00:08:10,593 opens up the back of his phone. 194 00:08:10,593 --> 00:08:11,073 Yes. 195 00:08:11,103 --> 00:08:11,673 Yeah. 196 00:08:11,763 --> 00:08:13,563 I'm gonna say number one. 197 00:08:13,563 --> 00:08:17,313 I'm gonna say that's an Android phone, not an iPhone. 198 00:08:17,523 --> 00:08:19,503 You're not opening up iPhones like that, 199 00:08:19,593 --> 00:08:19,833 Yeah. 200 00:08:19,983 --> 00:08:22,533 and you're not opening up most Android phones like that either. 201 00:08:22,533 --> 00:08:24,033 That's a cheap Android phone. 202 00:08:24,678 --> 00:08:25,788 To be able to do that. 203 00:08:25,878 --> 00:08:28,308 Um, he could have just swapped the SIM card, but that wouldn't 204 00:08:28,308 --> 00:08:29,658 have been as cool, I suppose. 205 00:08:29,718 --> 00:08:30,108 Right. 206 00:08:30,468 --> 00:08:34,818 Uh, you're also not swapping the sim card in a, in an iPhone easily, right? 207 00:08:35,043 --> 00:08:36,543 and most of 'em don't even have sim cards. 208 00:08:37,218 --> 00:08:39,678 Well, they, I think they have 'em, but they're internal, right? 209 00:08:40,023 --> 00:08:40,353 most 210 00:08:40,398 --> 00:08:40,818 No. 211 00:08:40,923 --> 00:08:42,063 They're all eims now. 212 00:08:42,328 --> 00:08:42,548 Yep. 213 00:08:42,768 --> 00:08:43,518 Oh, okay. 214 00:08:43,848 --> 00:08:44,118 All right. 215 00:08:44,478 --> 00:08:45,018 What do I know? 216 00:08:46,128 --> 00:08:50,628 And this is where he finds out, okay, who is in the running for the CTO? 217 00:08:50,628 --> 00:08:54,738 He finds out it's this woman's husband who is in the office with the CEO earlier. 218 00:08:55,158 --> 00:08:55,608 Right? 219 00:08:55,638 --> 00:08:58,608 And you could kind of see like the wheels turning in his head. 220 00:08:58,638 --> 00:09:01,128 And then later at the very end of the episode, right. 221 00:09:01,488 --> 00:09:04,338 His wife is like, we need to make sure that we sort of 222 00:09:04,338 --> 00:09:06,258 invite them over to dinner. 223 00:09:06,558 --> 00:09:06,948 Right. 224 00:09:06,948 --> 00:09:09,648 And you could already see like the wheels turning between the two of 'em. 225 00:09:09,648 --> 00:09:10,038 Right? 226 00:09:10,398 --> 00:09:10,548 In 227 00:09:10,658 --> 00:09:11,028 Yeah. 228 00:09:11,178 --> 00:09:14,958 where they're like, yes, we have to figure out how to sabotage this so that 229 00:09:14,958 --> 00:09:17,148 other guy doesn't get the CTO role. 230 00:09:17,148 --> 00:09:17,808 And you do. 231 00:09:18,708 --> 00:09:25,938 Yeah, so, you know, when we think about that again, once again, especially if. 232 00:09:26,763 --> 00:09:30,193 If you're in a sensitive role, caution the level of personal 233 00:09:30,213 --> 00:09:31,623 information that you put out there. 234 00:09:31,893 --> 00:09:33,183 This is where I'm going to dinner. 235 00:09:33,333 --> 00:09:33,553 Yep. 236 00:09:33,633 --> 00:09:34,623 is where I'm going out. 237 00:09:34,863 --> 00:09:37,053 Um, these are the kind of places that I like to go. 238 00:09:37,323 --> 00:09:41,253 Um, here's a, here's a picture of me that if you download, you're 239 00:09:41,253 --> 00:09:42,483 gonna get all kinds of metadata. 240 00:09:42,483 --> 00:09:43,778 It'll tell you exactly where this is. 241 00:09:44,628 --> 00:09:45,018 Right. 242 00:09:45,118 --> 00:09:49,288 The two generations following me, um, I think you're, you're 243 00:09:49,288 --> 00:09:50,578 in the other generation, right? 244 00:09:50,578 --> 00:09:51,208 You're, yeah. 245 00:09:51,628 --> 00:09:54,508 Um, the two generations following me are much more. 246 00:09:55,903 --> 00:09:58,903 You know, used to putting that kind of information out quite 247 00:09:58,903 --> 00:09:59,863 a bit, like all day long. 248 00:09:59,863 --> 00:10:02,743 Like, here's what I had for breakfast and here's the club that I'm at, 249 00:10:02,743 --> 00:10:07,123 and whoa, look at here are the seven different pictures of the seven 250 00:10:07,123 --> 00:10:08,713 different clubs I went to and win. 251 00:10:08,743 --> 00:10:09,033 Yeah, 252 00:10:09,493 --> 00:10:14,203 Um, and just realize that that can be, uh, used against you. 253 00:10:14,443 --> 00:10:15,673 And it's not even just like. 254 00:10:16,483 --> 00:10:17,773 He was important. 255 00:10:17,773 --> 00:10:21,283 It's the fact that he was working in an important role where he was managing the 256 00:10:21,283 --> 00:10:23,143 CEO's calendar and other things like that. 257 00:10:23,763 --> 00:10:24,193 Yeah. 258 00:10:24,223 --> 00:10:24,563 Yeah. 259 00:10:24,709 --> 00:10:28,279 Let's go back to the beginning of the episode and talk about that hospital. 260 00:10:28,513 --> 00:10:31,743 I think it's interesting that he chose a hospital. 261 00:10:31,833 --> 00:10:35,823 I mean, he says, I chose this hospital because of its lack of 262 00:10:35,823 --> 00:10:40,833 cybersecurity because he, he knew, he knew sort of what was gonna happen. 263 00:10:40,833 --> 00:10:43,443 He knew that, that he was gonna get busted for the morphine 264 00:10:43,443 --> 00:10:44,373 and the, and the, and that 265 00:10:44,433 --> 00:10:44,673 matter 266 00:10:44,703 --> 00:10:49,653 at some point, and, uh, that he, he knew that based on. 267 00:10:50,208 --> 00:10:53,388 What he knew about the the guy that, that runs the thing. 268 00:10:53,928 --> 00:10:56,268 And that's, I mean, that's it. 269 00:10:56,838 --> 00:10:59,838 When you look at somebody who's an actual hacker, right? 270 00:11:00,888 --> 00:11:04,648 The level of information that they can get about you, especially once they 271 00:11:04,648 --> 00:11:06,088 started doing reconnaissance, right? 272 00:11:06,428 --> 00:11:09,728 He's good at sort of, you know, poking in and figuring stuff out and, and, and 273 00:11:09,728 --> 00:11:13,358 he definitely got enough information on this guy to know that he would be able 274 00:11:13,358 --> 00:11:17,408 to easily get in and change the, the hospital records to make it look like 275 00:11:17,408 --> 00:11:18,968 he was clean when clearly he was not. 276 00:11:19,898 --> 00:11:20,498 You know what though? 277 00:11:20,498 --> 00:11:24,003 That's, that's like very thoughtful, 278 00:11:25,373 --> 00:11:27,293 Yeah, he's a super smart dude. 279 00:11:27,353 --> 00:11:29,243 You know, he's a super smart dude. 280 00:11:29,243 --> 00:11:31,853 He's troubled, he's clearly addicted to drugs. 281 00:11:32,483 --> 00:11:38,243 Um, and, um, yeah, but, but he, but he's super smart, right? 282 00:11:38,783 --> 00:11:43,043 I, I'd, I'd call him a high functioning, a high functioning drug addict. 283 00:11:43,403 --> 00:11:47,723 but some parts of me thinks like he kind of like starts going 284 00:11:47,723 --> 00:11:49,523 along like the white hat line. 285 00:11:50,513 --> 00:11:50,903 Right. 286 00:11:51,008 --> 00:11:51,848 Yeah, yeah, 287 00:11:52,103 --> 00:11:52,373 Right. 288 00:11:52,373 --> 00:11:52,763 Where he's 289 00:11:52,958 --> 00:11:53,378 yeah, 290 00:11:53,753 --> 00:11:55,523 for ethical reasons. 291 00:11:56,078 --> 00:11:56,318 yeah. 292 00:11:56,318 --> 00:11:57,248 Not the hacking of the, 293 00:11:57,288 --> 00:11:57,578 Yeah. 294 00:11:57,603 --> 00:12:00,068 not the hacking of the hospital, but, yeah. 295 00:12:00,278 --> 00:12:05,288 But yeah, so the, the, just the topic to discuss there is just think 296 00:12:05,288 --> 00:12:08,828 about the people that work for you, and if these people are responsible 297 00:12:08,828 --> 00:12:10,718 for cybersecurity in any way. 298 00:12:11,408 --> 00:12:13,688 Uh, you should think twice about underpaying them. 299 00:12:14,798 --> 00:12:15,968 Just a thought, right? 300 00:12:16,198 --> 00:12:19,973 and then I think the other thing they also mentioned is the guy had no budget. 301 00:12:20,468 --> 00:12:20,798 Hmm. 302 00:12:20,873 --> 00:12:23,813 like, I think it was like $10,000 a year to spend on it. 303 00:12:23,813 --> 00:12:24,353 Security. 304 00:12:24,398 --> 00:12:26,288 Maybe that's the number that I was hearing. 305 00:12:26,378 --> 00:12:28,508 $7,000 a year is the number that I heard. 306 00:12:28,808 --> 00:12:30,068 Maybe that's the number I was hearing 307 00:12:30,458 --> 00:12:31,418 and so 308 00:12:31,633 --> 00:12:31,923 yeah. 309 00:12:32,738 --> 00:12:39,458 especially a hospital or anything of value that you put the same budget towards 310 00:12:39,458 --> 00:12:45,428 things like security, data protection, resiliency, that you are for other aspects 311 00:12:46,238 --> 00:12:50,528 Yeah, I remember when I go all the way back to, um, you know, my first 312 00:12:50,528 --> 00:12:53,078 job with backups, and this was abs 313 00:12:56,258 --> 00:12:57,308 back in the day. 314 00:12:57,578 --> 00:13:04,778 Um, I remember how much money we would spend for the new sexy server, right? 315 00:13:05,048 --> 00:13:07,598 We bought, um, there was. 316 00:13:08,363 --> 00:13:10,883 I, I think it was called a T 500. 317 00:13:10,913 --> 00:13:13,223 It was an HP HPUX server. 318 00:13:13,223 --> 00:13:17,723 It was a T 500, and this thing was, um, huge. 319 00:13:18,053 --> 00:13:20,543 It was a hundred gigabytes. 320 00:13:20,873 --> 00:13:22,013 It was huge. 321 00:13:22,793 --> 00:13:25,613 Um, now, like I have this, 322 00:13:26,618 --> 00:13:26,948 Yeah. 323 00:13:27,503 --> 00:13:30,113 this, this is a x, you know. 324 00:13:30,368 --> 00:13:30,788 card 325 00:13:31,013 --> 00:13:31,343 Yeah. 326 00:13:31,343 --> 00:13:35,423 An XSD card, micro SD card, and it's 256. 327 00:13:35,503 --> 00:13:38,503 Um, but yeah, it was a hundred gigabytes. 328 00:13:38,503 --> 00:13:41,893 And what I remember was there was zero discussion about backup 329 00:13:41,893 --> 00:13:43,033 infrastructure for this thing. 330 00:13:43,093 --> 00:13:47,023 And we were using DDS drives, which were two gigabytes, uh oh. 331 00:13:47,023 --> 00:13:50,143 I think it had a DDS two, which meant it was four gigabytes. 332 00:13:50,548 --> 00:13:53,878 And I was like, so I'm gonna have to swap tapes 25 times. 333 00:13:53,878 --> 00:13:57,628 I remember having that discussion and that was how we, that was how luckily we 334 00:13:57,628 --> 00:14:00,148 bought our, our first, um, tape library. 335 00:14:01,768 --> 00:14:07,018 But, uh, yeah, it, it, it's very common for things that aren't directly 336 00:14:07,018 --> 00:14:10,528 related to revenue, like cybersecurity and data protection to how to be, 337 00:14:11,158 --> 00:14:15,178 you know, budgeted down the, and it's your job as a cybersecurity or a 338 00:14:15,178 --> 00:14:17,878 backup professional disaster recovery. 339 00:14:17,908 --> 00:14:19,558 It is your job to. 340 00:14:20,113 --> 00:14:22,453 Bring that stuff out into the forefront. 341 00:14:22,543 --> 00:14:28,243 so I remember this was a while ago that in it, there was a study done, 342 00:14:28,243 --> 00:14:34,308 I think they said people spend one to 2% of their IT budget data protection. 343 00:14:35,323 --> 00:14:36,283 Yeah, that sounds about right. 344 00:14:36,688 --> 00:14:41,338 and this was a while ago, but I think though if you now throw in security, 345 00:14:41,338 --> 00:14:45,448 cybersecurity and just given everything that's happening in the world these days, 346 00:14:45,553 --> 00:14:45,943 Yeah. 347 00:14:46,078 --> 00:14:50,428 think, I hope that that number has shifted upwards. 348 00:14:50,608 --> 00:14:53,728 Uh, yeah, I think it has, but, but maybe not enough. 349 00:14:53,728 --> 00:14:55,288 You know, it depend, it depends on the company. 350 00:14:55,288 --> 00:15:01,258 It just, it, I, I've been at companies where like, I can remember a, a 351 00:15:01,258 --> 00:15:05,548 meeting where we were discussing the fact that this company didn't have a 352 00:15:05,548 --> 00:15:09,688 DR plan, and this was a big company. 353 00:15:09,718 --> 00:15:12,718 This was a company that you would absolutely know the name of. 354 00:15:12,838 --> 00:15:13,198 Okay. 355 00:15:14,428 --> 00:15:15,118 And. 356 00:15:16,393 --> 00:15:20,173 Uh, the, the comment was made by a senior manager. 357 00:15:20,353 --> 00:15:24,373 Well, like, 'cause it was like, well what happens if a big earthquake comes? 358 00:15:24,373 --> 00:15:26,053 'cause this was a Southern California company. 359 00:15:26,383 --> 00:15:27,943 What happens if the big earthquake comes? 360 00:15:28,333 --> 00:15:30,973 Well, if that happens, if an earthquake that big happens, 361 00:15:30,973 --> 00:15:32,113 I'm probably gonna be dead. 362 00:15:32,263 --> 00:15:32,923 I won't care. 363 00:15:34,123 --> 00:15:34,543 Right. 364 00:15:34,933 --> 00:15:38,593 You know, if you, if you have somebody who's like, who's convinced that like. 365 00:15:39,073 --> 00:15:44,713 Raid is backup, or we don't need backup or whatever, you know, maybe 366 00:15:44,713 --> 00:15:49,723 it's time to wash your hands and walk away right at, at a minimum it's time 367 00:15:49,723 --> 00:15:53,203 to very much, very loudly in writing. 368 00:15:54,313 --> 00:15:57,553 This is what I think we should be doing and, and what we're 369 00:15:57,553 --> 00:16:01,693 currently doing is, is beyond ill advised, you need to do that right. 370 00:16:01,693 --> 00:16:02,623 To make your case. 371 00:16:02,743 --> 00:16:05,473 And if they ignore you, then maybe it's time to, it's time to move on. 372 00:16:05,653 --> 00:16:05,983 Right. 373 00:16:06,103 --> 00:16:06,343 Yeah. 374 00:16:07,213 --> 00:16:11,203 Um, so all right, so then let's talk about. 375 00:16:12,358 --> 00:16:12,448 The 376 00:16:12,478 --> 00:16:14,068 Email, right? 377 00:16:14,098 --> 00:16:19,378 So this huge, uh, f society, which by the way, I'm basically 378 00:16:19,378 --> 00:16:22,138 likening, I I, I hadn't mentioned this in the previous two episodes. 379 00:16:22,138 --> 00:16:24,508 I'm basically likening them to anonymous, right? 380 00:16:24,898 --> 00:16:30,538 Anonymous uses, um, a um, Guy Faulkes mask. 381 00:16:30,868 --> 00:16:33,718 This guy uses this weird looking mask. 382 00:16:33,718 --> 00:16:34,198 what. 383 00:16:34,648 --> 00:16:35,038 What, 384 00:16:35,173 --> 00:16:37,303 Even around anymore, I think they got shut down 385 00:16:38,278 --> 00:16:39,303 uh, I don't know. 386 00:16:39,403 --> 00:16:40,093 or, or they got 387 00:16:40,228 --> 00:16:42,178 I think I haven't, I haven't heard much about him yet. 388 00:16:42,493 --> 00:16:45,673 So I think when Mr. Robot was made, whichever, what was 389 00:16:45,673 --> 00:16:46,963 like six, seven years ago? 390 00:16:46,963 --> 00:16:47,413 Six years 391 00:16:47,548 --> 00:16:48,388 Mm-hmm. 392 00:16:48,628 --> 00:16:48,718 Mm-hmm. 393 00:16:48,763 --> 00:16:50,923 time anonymous was very prevalent, 394 00:16:51,328 --> 00:16:51,958 Right, right, 395 00:16:52,033 --> 00:16:54,913 think since then they've either been shut down or rebranded 396 00:16:54,913 --> 00:16:56,473 to one of the other groups. 397 00:16:56,863 --> 00:16:57,073 Right. 398 00:16:57,073 --> 00:16:57,913 Whatever it is. 399 00:16:57,913 --> 00:17:00,018 And that's why you may not know about it as much, 400 00:17:00,113 --> 00:17:01,618 , I haven't seen any videos of anyone like. 401 00:17:02,183 --> 00:17:02,483 Yeah. 402 00:17:02,918 --> 00:17:05,858 Posting videos of like the stuff that, that they were doing there. 403 00:17:06,608 --> 00:17:10,088 But what we have is they, we have this email hack, which, 404 00:17:10,088 --> 00:17:11,738 and an email dump, right? 405 00:17:11,738 --> 00:17:18,998 We have an email dump of really embarrassing corporate emails that, that, 406 00:17:19,508 --> 00:17:24,398 you know, prove essentially that you know, that they did some really bad stuff. 407 00:17:24,683 --> 00:17:24,773 do. 408 00:17:24,773 --> 00:17:27,563 As I was watching this episode, I remember thinking back, I don't know 409 00:17:27,563 --> 00:17:29,273 if you remember Curtis, the Sony hack, 410 00:17:29,573 --> 00:17:29,813 Oh, yeah. 411 00:17:30,293 --> 00:17:35,183 Sony had their emails compromised and published, and there was some 412 00:17:35,183 --> 00:17:37,943 embarrassing information that executives 413 00:17:38,258 --> 00:17:40,808 Yeah, they were trash talking talent. 414 00:17:42,548 --> 00:17:46,148 Channing Tatum was somebody that, that I was just, I was just looking at it. 415 00:17:46,148 --> 00:17:49,838 Channing Tatum apparently got some, some emails about him read, you know? 416 00:17:50,648 --> 00:17:50,948 Hmm. 417 00:17:51,458 --> 00:17:51,848 Yeah, 418 00:17:52,058 --> 00:17:54,578 I think that is kind of what they modeled this 419 00:17:55,058 --> 00:17:56,168 yeah, yeah. 420 00:17:56,168 --> 00:17:56,258 And. 421 00:17:56,288 --> 00:17:57,098 but so 422 00:17:57,308 --> 00:18:00,368 And similar to that, basically this was just released. 423 00:18:00,398 --> 00:18:05,318 It was like, you know, and so, you know, you wonder wh why, what 424 00:18:05,318 --> 00:18:10,178 was the, um, why did Mr. Robot essentially release this email? 425 00:18:10,358 --> 00:18:10,568 Yep. 426 00:18:10,748 --> 00:18:14,318 And I'd say it was obviously to completely discredit Terry Colby, 427 00:18:14,498 --> 00:18:14,798 Yeah. 428 00:18:15,038 --> 00:18:22,748 The previous CTO, um, and to just to continue to muck up the waters right. 429 00:18:22,778 --> 00:18:27,668 Well, I, I think it was also because until this point, Elliot's 430 00:18:27,668 --> 00:18:28,658 kind of on the fence, right? 431 00:18:28,658 --> 00:18:30,068 He's like, I want nothing to do with you. 432 00:18:30,068 --> 00:18:31,538 I'm stepping away from you guys. 433 00:18:32,258 --> 00:18:32,678 Right? 434 00:18:32,678 --> 00:18:33,848 And this is kind of like. 435 00:18:34,598 --> 00:18:36,488 The nail in the coffin for Elliot, right? 436 00:18:36,488 --> 00:18:37,958 Where he's like, screw this. 437 00:18:38,408 --> 00:18:41,468 Let's go guns a blazing and go after these guys. 438 00:18:41,768 --> 00:18:42,518 Because until that 439 00:18:42,743 --> 00:18:43,163 Yeah. 440 00:18:43,298 --> 00:18:44,078 he was like, 441 00:18:44,123 --> 00:18:44,603 Oh 442 00:18:44,678 --> 00:18:45,188 think so. 443 00:18:45,203 --> 00:18:45,773 yeah. 444 00:18:45,833 --> 00:18:46,193 Okay. 445 00:18:46,253 --> 00:18:47,483 So you're, I see what you're saying. 446 00:18:47,513 --> 00:18:52,643 This, this was, he wanted Elliot, um, you know, to, to do the thing. 447 00:18:52,703 --> 00:18:57,443 And, um, he, he and he, and he, he wants, he wants him to do it willingly. 448 00:18:57,443 --> 00:19:01,223 He wants him to come along and he does believe Elliot, as he says, multiply him. 449 00:19:01,223 --> 00:19:03,983 El Elliot is the key to this whole thing. 450 00:19:04,838 --> 00:19:08,738 The other thing too that I was wondering as I watched this episode 451 00:19:08,738 --> 00:19:14,258 was, it's interesting how like Elliot and Allsafe and all the investigations 452 00:19:14,258 --> 00:19:18,278 they did, they didn't notice all these emails being exfiltrated. 453 00:19:20,948 --> 00:19:24,368 Well, so, so that's a, that's interesting. 454 00:19:24,368 --> 00:19:27,308 So there is a, there is a possible reason for that. 455 00:19:27,308 --> 00:19:32,888 And we, you know, I, I literally, so I'm, I'm currently, uh, editing my book, right? 456 00:19:32,888 --> 00:19:36,188 So the, you know, the, we finished the rough draft and we're editing it, 457 00:19:36,188 --> 00:19:40,178 and I was just, it's called learning ransomware response and recovery. 458 00:19:40,208 --> 00:19:40,988 Thank you very much. 459 00:19:41,798 --> 00:19:46,748 And I, I was just editing the part where just realized that the 460 00:19:46,748 --> 00:19:48,788 backup system, not only is it. 461 00:19:49,373 --> 00:19:51,473 Um, it's not an attack. 462 00:19:51,773 --> 00:19:55,163 Like, it's not the, it's not just the thing that they want 463 00:19:55,163 --> 00:19:57,653 to attack because they want to take it out of the mix, right? 464 00:19:57,653 --> 00:20:00,533 They want to, they want to take it away from you as a tool to be 465 00:20:00,533 --> 00:20:02,303 used after the ransomware attack. 466 00:20:03,068 --> 00:20:06,068 It is also the, the kingdom, right, is the key. 467 00:20:06,488 --> 00:20:10,538 I had an interesting, um, conversation with one of the, one of, one of the tech 468 00:20:10,538 --> 00:20:15,398 editors and, and I was saying that if you had control of the backup system, that you 469 00:20:15,398 --> 00:20:20,558 could restore an image of a vm and then you could do things like a brute force 470 00:20:20,558 --> 00:20:24,368 attack against the password file without anybody noticing because you restored it 471 00:20:24,458 --> 00:20:26,018 like outside the control of everybody. 472 00:20:26,078 --> 00:20:27,548 And he's like, why would you do that? 473 00:20:27,548 --> 00:20:29,978 And I, I was listening this as like additional reconnaissance 474 00:20:29,978 --> 00:20:31,958 that you could do and he, um. 475 00:20:32,348 --> 00:20:33,638 And he said, why would you do that? 476 00:20:33,638 --> 00:20:35,648 And I said, well, to be able to hack that server. 477 00:20:35,648 --> 00:20:36,668 He's like, why? 478 00:20:36,668 --> 00:20:39,908 You have the server, you have the vm, right? 479 00:20:40,028 --> 00:20:42,098 And I'm like, yeah, I guess you have the keys to the kingdom 480 00:20:42,098 --> 00:20:43,088 if you've got the backups. 481 00:20:43,088 --> 00:20:44,828 He goes, no, you have the kingdom. 482 00:20:44,948 --> 00:20:46,838 Like he's like, you've got everything. 483 00:20:46,898 --> 00:20:50,648 And so it's quite possible that one of the reasons that they didn't notice an 484 00:20:50,648 --> 00:20:54,278 exfiltration is that the exfiltration was done via the backup system, 485 00:20:54,403 --> 00:20:54,483 Hmm. 486 00:20:54,608 --> 00:20:54,878 right? 487 00:20:54,878 --> 00:20:55,538 Email backups. 488 00:20:56,468 --> 00:20:57,893 I, I, it's a double-edged sword. 489 00:20:57,953 --> 00:20:59,303 You should be backing up your emails. 490 00:20:59,303 --> 00:21:02,603 You should be backing up Microsoft 365 or Gmail or whatever it is that you're using. 491 00:21:03,143 --> 00:21:08,963 But the double-edged sword is if you're backing up your emails, um, then tho 492 00:21:08,993 --> 00:21:11,453 those are a valuable tool for forensics. 493 00:21:11,453 --> 00:21:13,373 So for E Discovery and things like that. 494 00:21:13,373 --> 00:21:17,783 And in this case, you know, you could very easily restore, um, you know, 495 00:21:17,843 --> 00:21:22,493 all these emails and then, you know, uh, find out what you're looking for. 496 00:21:22,598 --> 00:21:22,838 Yeah, 497 00:21:23,603 --> 00:21:23,843 Yeah. 498 00:21:23,978 --> 00:21:24,638 is true. 499 00:21:24,638 --> 00:21:24,998 Yeah. 500 00:21:24,998 --> 00:21:28,148 And it is a possible thing. 501 00:21:28,148 --> 00:21:30,668 It was just one thing that I just felt that they missed. 502 00:21:31,088 --> 00:21:31,328 Right. 503 00:21:31,328 --> 00:21:32,258 Just given how much 504 00:21:32,333 --> 00:21:33,503 Oh, just talking about it. 505 00:21:33,548 --> 00:21:33,908 Yeah. 506 00:21:34,223 --> 00:21:36,353 Yeah, because that in general, you, you're right. 507 00:21:36,358 --> 00:21:38,183 That, that they, what, who's they? 508 00:21:38,183 --> 00:21:42,388 Is they the writers of the show or the or, or, uh, all safe. 509 00:21:42,578 --> 00:21:43,813 All safe slash Elliot? 510 00:21:44,528 --> 00:21:44,918 Okay. 511 00:21:45,008 --> 00:21:45,368 Okay. 512 00:21:45,578 --> 00:21:46,448 Yeah, yeah. 513 00:21:46,448 --> 00:21:49,748 We'll, we'll, uh, we'll put this in the IMDB category of 514 00:21:49,748 --> 00:21:51,368 mistakes made by characters. 515 00:21:51,848 --> 00:21:52,268 Right? 516 00:21:52,448 --> 00:21:54,068 I dunno if you've ever looked at the goofs. 517 00:21:54,303 --> 00:21:54,523 No. 518 00:21:55,028 --> 00:21:59,888 Um, I, I love, uh, looking at, I'm a big movie and TV fan, and I love looking 519 00:21:59,888 --> 00:22:02,378 on, I mdb love looking at the goofs. 520 00:22:02,858 --> 00:22:07,538 And, um, if you're, if you're an Uber nerd on a particular topic. 521 00:22:08,033 --> 00:22:12,233 Like cybersecurity, um, you can go in and put this kind of stuff in there. 522 00:22:12,283 --> 00:22:16,123 So, all right, so be careful about, so be careful what you put in email. 523 00:22:16,993 --> 00:22:21,403 Be careful and be, make sure to protect the backups of your email, right? 524 00:22:21,433 --> 00:22:25,633 We talk so much about the cybersecurity of, of, of the, the environment. 525 00:22:25,633 --> 00:22:27,463 Make sure about the cybersecurity of your backups. 526 00:22:27,463 --> 00:22:29,143 Make sure they're not easily, um 527 00:22:29,443 --> 00:22:31,423 also the social engineering aspect. 528 00:22:31,768 --> 00:22:31,988 mm. 529 00:22:32,668 --> 00:22:32,968 Right. 530 00:22:32,998 --> 00:22:36,148 I don't know if people are aware, but there's like this ransomware 531 00:22:36,148 --> 00:22:39,178 group called Scattered Spider going around and popping a bunch of, 532 00:22:39,598 --> 00:22:42,418 uh, I think banks and airlines and 533 00:22:42,523 --> 00:22:43,753 Mm-hmm. 534 00:22:43,754 --> 00:22:43,755 Mm-hmm. 535 00:22:44,278 --> 00:22:48,208 one of their first ways of getting in is they pretend to be an employee 536 00:22:48,208 --> 00:22:49,858 asking for their password to be reset. 537 00:22:50,593 --> 00:22:50,923 Yeah. 538 00:22:52,123 --> 00:22:52,753 No bueno. 539 00:22:52,918 --> 00:22:53,488 Yes. 540 00:22:53,548 --> 00:22:53,968 So be 541 00:22:54,103 --> 00:22:54,433 Yeah. 542 00:22:54,508 --> 00:22:58,078 you post out there about where you work, what you're doing, 543 00:22:58,078 --> 00:22:59,128 and other things like that. 544 00:22:59,128 --> 00:23:00,598 'cause that may be used against you. 545 00:23:01,288 --> 00:23:01,648 Yeah. 546 00:23:01,828 --> 00:23:03,658 That's why I tell people I work at Inn Out. 547 00:23:08,143 --> 00:23:08,503 Oh, 548 00:23:08,608 --> 00:23:10,108 I don't even, I don't even like inn out. 549 00:23:10,108 --> 00:23:11,788 I, I mean, I mean, I don't hate it. 550 00:23:11,818 --> 00:23:12,328 Okay. 551 00:23:12,688 --> 00:23:15,898 I know that's like sacrilege here in California, but 552 00:23:15,943 --> 00:23:16,363 No. 553 00:23:16,423 --> 00:23:17,413 There's now an uproar. 554 00:23:17,443 --> 00:23:18,613 I don't know if you've heard about this. 555 00:23:18,838 --> 00:23:19,288 what 556 00:23:19,363 --> 00:23:20,323 CEO moved to Tennessee. 557 00:23:21,568 --> 00:23:21,928 Oh, really 558 00:23:22,213 --> 00:23:22,603 Yeah. 559 00:23:22,663 --> 00:23:23,428 She took the company and left. 560 00:23:25,383 --> 00:23:25,543 interesting. 561 00:23:26,353 --> 00:23:27,013 Interesting. 562 00:23:27,613 --> 00:23:29,593 Um, yeah, we'll see. 563 00:23:29,713 --> 00:23:33,613 But like my daughter, she, you know, the mo if she, whenever she leaves 564 00:23:34,303 --> 00:23:37,333 California, the first thing she does literally on her way home from 565 00:23:37,333 --> 00:23:38,443 the airport is getting in and out. 566 00:23:38,443 --> 00:23:39,223 I'm like, I don't get it. 567 00:23:39,223 --> 00:23:41,053 she get a four by four fries and a shake? 568 00:23:41,653 --> 00:23:44,053 Uh, no, I don't think so. 569 00:23:44,593 --> 00:23:45,043 I don't think so. 570 00:23:45,403 --> 00:23:48,403 Me, I'm a five guys person, but you know, that's just me. 571 00:23:49,903 --> 00:23:50,323 All right. 572 00:23:50,323 --> 00:23:52,603 Well, another fun episode. 573 00:23:52,663 --> 00:23:56,113 Look forward to episode four, aka 1.3 next week. 574 00:23:56,388 --> 00:23:57,928 Yes, I am. 575 00:23:57,988 --> 00:24:01,468 Then I will now have to go watch it before then, and uh, hopefully 576 00:24:01,468 --> 00:24:02,548 you will not spoil it for me. 577 00:24:04,003 --> 00:24:05,053 There's computers in it. 578 00:24:05,818 --> 00:24:07,408 Curtis, why, 579 00:24:07,698 --> 00:24:08,748 All right, well thanks. 580 00:24:09,258 --> 00:24:09,998 Thanks, Prasanna. 581 00:24:10,068 --> 00:24:10,698 It's been fun. 582 00:24:11,073 --> 00:24:12,333 Likewise, Curtis. 583 00:24:12,828 --> 00:24:14,748 And thanks to our listeners. 584 00:24:14,928 --> 00:24:16,098 You are why we do this. 585 00:24:16,098 --> 00:24:17,088 Hope you enjoyed the episode. 586 00:24:17,088 --> 00:24:18,108 Hope you learned a thing or two. 587 00:24:18,438 --> 00:24:19,183 That is a wrap. 588 00:24:22,772 --> 00:24:27,452 The backup wrap up is written, recorded, and produced by me w Curtis Preston. 589 00:24:28,022 --> 00:24:32,822 If you need backup or Dr. Consulting content generation or expert witness 590 00:24:32,822 --> 00:24:35,402 work, check out backup central.com. 591 00:24:36,122 --> 00:24:39,242 You can also find links from my O'Reilly Books on the same website. 592 00:24:39,902 --> 00:24:43,892 Remember, this is an independent podcast and any opinions that 593 00:24:43,892 --> 00:24:47,822 you hear are those of the speaker and not necessarily an employer. 594 00:24:48,722 --> 00:24:49,412 Thanks for listening.