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You're probably doing a ton
of trauma recovery and just

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general wellness kinds of things.

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It can get overwhelming.

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So in this episode, what I want to
do is share with you four different

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buckets or, or pathways that you
can place all of your efforts into.

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I want to help you compartmentalize
and think about your efforts

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and what they're doing and maybe
where you need to grow as well.

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Hey, my name is Justin Sunseri.

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I'm a therapist and a coach
who wants to help you live more

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calmly, confidently, and connected
without psychobabble or woo woo.

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Welcome to Stuck Not Broken.

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This podcast is not therapy,
nor is it intended to be a

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replacement for a therapy.

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This topic comes up.

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consistently and predictably in my client
work, also very often within the Stucknaut

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Collective courses and community.

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And that is, what is your goal and
how are you going about doing that?

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Your goal is probably to get
unstuck, probably to reduce anxiety

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or depression or anger or rage or
overwhelm or fill in the blank.

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Maybe all of them.

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But what avenues are you
taking to reach that goal?

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And I want to help you to differentiate
those and compartmentalize them

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into four different pathways, okay?

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The first one is just baseline stuff.

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Uh, the things that you
should have in place.

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And if you don't have them in place,
all your other efforts are probably

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not going to be super helpful.

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They could be helpful, but
not as much as possible.

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And that's just baseline foundational
things like eating healthy enough, having

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enough water, um, getting enough sleep.

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We don't need perfection.

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I don't need you to be hyper nutritional
and drinking a certain amount of water

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every day and measuring that and, you
know, wearing a backpack full of water

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to make sure you get a ton or whatever.

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But just - enough.

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You know, we need to do good enough, and I
can't tell you what, what number that is.

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Um, but good enough.

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If you're living off candy,
that's probably not good enough.

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If you're living off of fats
and sugars, soda, Pizza like

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that's probably not good enough.

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So make improvements
that are in that area.

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That's that's foundational that is
unbelievably important to the other

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efforts that I'm gonna lay out here
and when I make that motion It's

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because I have three more three more
pathways there for you, but but that

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has to be in place if you're not
getting enough sleep, that's huge.

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I have sleep apnea- if I
don't get good enough sleep,

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I feel it the rest of the day.

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Uh, everything just becomes so
much more difficult when you

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don't have good enough sleep.

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So, um, sleep and eat enough or eat
well enough, drink enough water,

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be healthy enough, get enough
movement, that kind of stuff.

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.  
   
Alright, pathway two as far as healing
or recovering or making change in your

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life, pathway two is I think where
people get stuck a lot and typically

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where they start coming into therapy.

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And that is coping.

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You probably have some level of anxiety
or anger or whatever, depression

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fill in the blank and you're trying
to figure out how to cope with it.

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How do I make it go away
or how do I reduce it?

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And I don't blame you.

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I don't blame you at all.

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I don't blame my clients.

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I don't blame the people in
the Stucknaut Collective.

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Of course, of course you want
that to reduce, if not go away.

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But, what you're doing is decreasing
defensive activation through, you know,

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hacks and whatnot that you're finding
online, like jumping into frozen, freezing

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cold water, or taking cold showers,
or putting a bag of frozen peas on

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your chest to reduce anxiety and those
things might help you reduce anxiety.

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I'm happy, but um, those are temporary.

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Those are very temporary.

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They do, they do not resolve the problem.

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And what they may do actually is
trigger your dorsal vagal state, uh,

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dorsal vagal state and numb you out.

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Well, so in this, in essence, it puts
you into a little bit of shutdown and so

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yeah, your anxiety is gone But are you
more connected to the present moment?

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Do you love yourself more now?

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It just kind of helps to make the
feelings go away after a while.

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One of my clients says he grabs his or
he tried from some psychiatrist told him

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Yeah, just when you're feeling anxious
grab your your thumb nail squeeze on

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that and your fingers It's just a hack
if anything to me it does nothing and

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I don't know for you maybe it does
something but uh, if it does it's like

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does it help you love yourself more?

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Does it connect you with
your loved ones more?

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Do you feel less guilt in your life?

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Do you feel less perpetual anxiety
probably not maybe in that moment

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because now you're causing yourself
pain or distracting yourself

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and that there's value to that.

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So, that's that's pathway
number two or bucket number two.

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What are you doing that fits into that?

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And it's, it's those things like
counting backwards when you're anxious,

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um, playing with a fidget when you're
anxious or when you're angry or depressed

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or whatever, those things are coping.

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You're, you're trying to reduce defensive
activation -totally has a place.

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If you need to numb yourself out
because you're feeling suicidal, go

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ahead, watch TV until you feel less
suicidal and can do something about it.

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I don't think there's anything
wrong with that at all.

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So coping definitely has a
place, but it is not the answer.

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And if you're going into therapy seeking
more coping, that's fine, but hopefully

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therapists can do more for you and, um,
you know, get you to the next two paths.

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so we've got the foundational path
one, we got the coping path two,

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path three is practicing safety.

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And this is what we're Um, therapists,
and I'll honestly miss, and this

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is probably what you're missing to
your listener and in your efforts.

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How do you feel safe?

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What triggers feelings of comfort for you?

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What helps bring you
to the present moment?

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What helps you to breathe easier?

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What helps you to feel maybe appreciation?

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Maybe gratitude?

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Love?

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Gratitude?

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Maybe, maybe not happiness,
but yeah, maybe happiness.

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Maybe just contentment?

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Awe?

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Some of these are might be more
easier to reach than others.

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But yeah, what helps you feel safe and
connected to yourself or connected to

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the environment or connected to others?

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Connected to yourself would be having
enough self compassion to look inward

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and Be open to all of your experiences,
even the ones that are uncomfortable.

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Connection to the environment
would be through your senses.

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So do you know what senses, um, bring
you to your safety state or what sensory

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triggers bring you to your safety state?

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Do you know what tastes or what smells,
what textures help you to just be just

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to be and breathe and that's enough.

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I'm not saying it's easy, but.

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It's important.

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I think it's actually extremely important.

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The coping stuff is fine, but if you
can practice feeling safe and build

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that up and like literally build up the
strength of your safety pathways, your

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biological, ventral, vagal pathways.

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If you can do that, the need for
coping is It's gonna be less, like

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you just won't need it as much.

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It'll probably still pop up, sure.

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But the, your level of distress tolerance
will grow up, go up, not grow up, go up.

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Distress tolerance goes up,
your level, your feelings of

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connection to yourself and others
in the environment, that goes up.

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Your ability to be mindful
of your experience, positive

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and negative, that goes up.

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And yeah, the defensive activation
that you're stuck in, flight, fight,

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shut down, freeze, that eases up too.

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It doesn't solve, exactly, it
doesn't solve the problem, but.

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It makes life way more manageable
without relying on coping

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skills or hacks or whatever.

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It makes life more manageable, and
it really reduces the intensity and

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frequency of your defensive activation.

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So that is extremely important and
something we don't pay attention

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to in life in general, honestly.

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Nobody thinks this way,
no one talks this way.

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Um, except, well, except
for us, I suppose.

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But even in therapy, we don't think
this way, we don't talk this way.

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We focus on what's the problem and
how do we make the problem go away.

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Well, part of making the problem go
away is to practice feeling safe.

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And as we do that, things kind of get
better little by little by little.

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It's a long process.

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It's not a hack.

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It is a long process.

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Pathway number four is directly feeling
and relieving your stuck defensive state.

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Whether it's flight,
fight, shutdown, or freeze.

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Pathway 4 is hugely dependent
upon Pathway 1 and Pathway 3.

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So just, you know, basic sleep in, you
know, healthy enough, blah, blah, blah.

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But also Pathway 3, which is feeling
safe, feeling grounded, staying connected

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to yourself in the present moment,
even when uncomfortable things come up.

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In Pathway 4, where we're directly
feeling and experiencing our stuck

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defensive state or defensive activation.

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It might be momentary anxiety.

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And so rather than coping it away
through some TikTok hack or whatever, we

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actually say, okay, I'm feeling anxious.

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Not why am I feeling this
way, but let me feel this way.

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I can, I can handle this.

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I can permit myself to feel anxious or
angry or irritated or depressed and numb.

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I have enough safety activation
because I've put that daily work

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in to feel or practice being safe.

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Now I have such a strong foundation
of safety, I can actually.

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allow myself to feel defensive
activation and maybe it's the momentary

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anxiety spike, but you could also
use pathway for, for intentionally

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feeling stuck defensive activation.

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So not just the momentary anxiety,
but the stuck flight activation that

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the momentary anxiety comes from.

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Pathway four is hugely important
for truly recovering from a stuck

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defensive state for relieving trauma.

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You know, you can practice being safety,
and I highly encourage you to do that.

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You can do that every day and build up
the strength of your safety pathways.

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And a lot of good can come from that,

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but that next level of getting unstuck
and finding more emotional freedom

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and deeper connections with yourself
that, that has to come through pathway

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four, and that, that relies entirely
on your ability to stay grounded in

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the present moment, in your safety
state, and then to validate your

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experiences your even the difficult ones.

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To normalize them and even give them
permission to be and to feel them, not

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just lightly, although that might be
a starting point, but even deeply to

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deeply go into your stuck defensive
activation and feel it and experience

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it, the memories and images and sense
and all the things that come along with

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it, the textures that you recall, you
know, memories might be a part of that.

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Yeah, Pathway 4 is really important.

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And you can do that in doses.

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Actually, it's pretty,
pretty on a good idea.

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We don't want to go all the way into
defensive activation all at once.

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Little bit, you know, little doses here
and there are probably really good idea.

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Um, to me, I, I liken it, especially
maybe with freeze activation.

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I liken it to skipping stones.

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You know, you throw a stone across
the water and it just sort of touches

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upon the water before coming back up.

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I think, um, it's, that's probably a
good metaphor for how to handle defensive

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activation if you're starting down path
four and feeling into it, it's probably

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a really good idea to lightly touch upon
it and then come back to safety, lightly

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touch upon defense, come back to safety.

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That's called pendulation.

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You can purposely do that.

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Pendulate back and forth.

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And that's as an intro to it.

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It's probably a really,
really good idea to do that.

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Hopefully that helps you to think
about your efforts, where you're

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at, maybe where you need to be
and where you'd like to get to.

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If you're coping day in, day out,
good for you, do what you got to do.

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But can you find moments to include
a tad more safety into your life?

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And I think you can.

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I had a session today where
the person said, I have no time

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for any of any mindfulness.

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I have no time for practicing safety.

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I have no time for this,
that, or the other thing.

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And I asked him, okay, well, let's,
let's do a, Let's take inventory of

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your life, your daily life, your,
let's, let's audit your daily life.

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Um, what do you do when you wake up?

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And he goes, well, usually I
spend about five hours, um,

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on YouTube and social media.

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Yeah, there's five hours
right there we can work with.

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That's a huge chunk of time.

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So this person and you may be
and most  of- many people will

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default to, I just got to cope.

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I got to get through this
because I don't have time.

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I don't have this.

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I don't have that.

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Uh, there's probably time.

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There's probably a moment and
really it's these things can be

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practiced in micro moments and
those have a ton of benefit to them.

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When you wake up in the morning, do
you need to go for a walk outside?

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Would that feel safer than
laying in bed and scrolling

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through TikTok for five hours?

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Probably.

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In the morning, can you go connect
with a loved one and give them a hug?

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That's a moment of safety or your pet.

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That's a moment of safety.

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Can you mindfully experience how
your cereal makes you feel when you

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eat it or the smell of your coffee?

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The taste of your tea?

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These, like, these are tiny moments
where you can practice safety.

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So if you're stuck in I'm coping
day in, day out, I bet you can

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find tiny moments of safety.

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Micro moments.

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And practice those.

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If you're coping day in, day
out, Okay, hey, do your thing.

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But can you also drink
more water instead of soda?

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Can you eat something that's
fresh and not from fast food?

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Probably.

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Probably.

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If you could do all that and build up,
if you can, you know, be healthier,

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a little bit healthier, maybe a lot
healthier and cope your way when you

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need to cope your way through it.

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And also feel safety in micro moments.

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Eventually, would you be able to say,
well, you know, what else do I feel?

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What's it really like to be me and
to be stuck in whatever state I'm in?

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You might not be close to that right now.

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And that that's okay.

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Down the line, that's a
question you could ask yourself.

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And that's, that's pretty
normal in my client work.

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We build up so much safety that.

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My clients will get to a point where
they say, you know, I'm ready to feel

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just what it's like to be me completely.

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What else is within me?

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And to be open to that.

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Thank you so much for joining
me on Stuck Not Broken.

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I really hope this episode has
helped you compartmentalize or think

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about your efforts and where they
belong in those four paths and where

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you can grow, what you can maybe
bolster if it needs bolstering.

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Your homework assignment is to
look at all the things you're doing

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and put them into one of those
four, um, pathways or buckets.

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If you're squeezing your thumb to feel
better, what bucket does that belong into?

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If tonight you're going to cook a fresh
meal, what bucket does that belong into?

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If you're going to go hug your
mom and tell her you love her,

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what bucket does that belong into?

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If you're going to meditate and feel
what it's like to be you completely,

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what bucket would that be in?

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Actually, I created a
free resource for you.

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It's just a really simple one sheet
visualization of this four bucket

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thing with brief descriptions.

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You can download that in
the free member center.

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I'll put a link for
you in the description.

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The link though is justinlmft.com/members
and I have a free course and other

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downloads there for you if you like.

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Otherwise, thanks for joining me.