In this episode, I'm going to share with you another story from somebody

in my Stucknaut Collective who has a really good example of self-regulation.

I'll share her story, give you my thoughts on what's happening, and give

you some tips on your own self-regulation practices along along the way.

Hey, I'm Justin Sunseri.

I am a therapist, a coach and the creator of the Polyvagal Trauma Relief System.

Welcome to Stuck Not Broken where I teach you how to live with more

calm, confidence, and connection without psychobabble or woo-woo.

This comment, I'm also going to keep this one as anonymous and generalizable

as I can, but it's a specific story.

Again, somebody from within the Stucknaut Collective who is doing

her own self-regulation practices.

I'll call this person "Macy."

Macy says, Thanks, Justin for this really helpful episode responding to a question

arising out of Shutdown to Stillness.

I felt like so many connections were made in my brain as I listened to it.

I flip flop between shutdown/freeze/stillness

and flight/fight.

Now this.

This might seem like an odd flip up flopping sequence.

I don't think it's the, from shutdown to freeze, to

stillness, to flight, to flight.

That's not what she's saying.

It sounds like she spends a lot of time in shut down or freeze or stillness.

These are actually kind of all related because shutdown well is shut down.

Freeze is shutdown plus flight fight and stillness is is shutdown plus safety.

All three of those- shut down, freeze, and stillness all involve

the dorsal vagal pathways or the shutdown immobilization pathways.

When you are in shutdown, you're immobile.

In freeze you are immobile and in stillness you're also immobile.

But the flavor of those is different.

The shutdown immobility is very limp and collapsed, helpless, worthless.

That kind feel to it, void, a cold.

The freeze immobility is very tense and rigid.

And the like paralysis.

Like it's cannot move.

And the stillness immobility is more relaxed and calm.

They're all immobile, but they feel different, but all of them have some

level of shutdown as a part of it.

Or, another way to think about it is that all, all of those

have some level of immobility.

When we.

We come out of immobility through self-regulation, we have more

mobility, which is flight and fight.

So she's saying that she goes from immobility into mobility.

Which is yeah.

Yeah, that's definitely a good sign of self-regulation.

Macy continues and says, I am very conscious that my system seems

to feel safer when immobilized.

And as soon as a bit of activation arises, wham.

More fear.

And so back to shutdown.

Now, this could sound a couple of different ways.

My F- "my system feels safer when immobilized."

That could be, that Macy, or in general, that someone is listening

to the needs of their body.

And they're listening to the needs to immobilize where

the body needs to mobilize.

So they do it.

And that listening- that mindful listening requires some level of

safety activation to notice that.

And then to give yourself that without judgment.

So the body.

Or the system feeling safer through immobilizing that makes

sense in that way, but also when you exist in shutdown or freeze

immobilizing can also be comforting.

It could also be predictable.

There might be just some level of predictable comfort there, even though

you're not mindfully experiencing it and allowing it and opening up

the potential for self-regulation.

Like, someone who's in a shutdown state might say they

feel safer when immobilized.

And then go watch TV.

But that's different than " I feel safer when immobilized" and sitting outside

and feeling the sun and listening to the birds around me and feeling the breeze.

That's a much different different experience of immobilization.

So if you have a lot of immobilization, you need the safety safety state

to be strengthened to come out of immobilization to allow the next

level of self-regulation, which is being in flight and fight.

If you don't have that healthy, strong level of safety in your system active,

then as the body attempts to self-regulate out of immobility, flight and fight

kick in, but there's still such a strong amount of immobility that when

the flight buy kicks in, you go right back back down into shutdown, but so it

could be right back down and shut down.

But it also could be as we come out of shutdown- out of immobility, now

there's a little bit flight fight, but now both of these states are active.

Immobility and mobility- shutdown plus flight fight.

And that it would be freeze or fear.

Coming out of shutdown could have some element of fear to it.

Coming out of shutdown into flight fight and then having it be too much.

Being dysregulated.

And then going right back down and shut down.

That's a possibility as well.

Macy says I do have a lot of fatigue in my system and this also feeds into the fear.

A fear of doing too much.

So I can move to stillness, but permitting flight fight seems just too scary.

If you're in more of a shutdown immobility like Macy is here, then I would really

encourage you to focus first on stillness.

Stillness is the combination of shutdown plus safety.

Immobilization plus connection.

If you can be in stillness, then you can feel relaxed, calm and connected

to the world around you and even your internal world potentially.

So instead of trying to get from shutdown immobility into flight

fight mobility- that might be too much to ask for your system.

Instead, although, although it will happen.

Instead focus on stillness.

If you can be in stillness, then you can actually compassionately welcome some

sympathetic energy back into your system.

If you don't have a strong enough safety state, then yeah, it's

going to seem scary and and you're going to have thoughts of failure.

Like, uh, this isn't going to work.

Or it's hopeless or I'll.

If I, even if I access flight and fight, I'll never be able to get out of it.

And I don't want to live like this forever.

So your thoughts are going to go all these places.

Focus on safety, safety, safety.

Then safety will combine with your shutdown state resulting in stillness.

Macy goes on to say, After listening to this episode, the previous episode.

After listening to this episode, I was aware of some sympathetic

activation swirling around.

Rather than ignoring it, I decided to mobilize as Justin suggested.

I put on some music.

The techno track from the film, The Outrun...

which I don't know what that film is, but techno track I'm going.

I guess that's more upbeat, fast paced.

... made sure I was fully grounded and let the music come into my body.

I did some very strange movements.

Couldn't call it dancing.

Twirling around and the dog joined in.

Let's pause here because this is perfect.

Rather than noticing sympathetic activation and trying to get

rid of it, Macy welcomed it.

And she did so with music.

Music and movement are a perfect combination and outlet

for sympathetic activation.

So, it's not about noticing flight by coming back in the

system and like trying to calm it.

Down.

Really it's more about how do you welcome it?

How do you welcome it?

Compassion.

Passionately and with curiosity.

That is self-regulation.

Stamping down or tamping down or dampening, whatever the right word is.

Shutting down your sympathetic activation is not self-regulation.

That's um, dismissal.

That's rejection.

That's self judgment, maybe.

That's fear.

And that all makes sense.

And that's fine.

I'm not trying to say that's bad.

That's a pretty normal part of the process, but when you focus on safety

more and more and more, then when you feel flight flight coming back in

your system, you can do what Macy did here, which is to notice it and feel

it and give it uh, permission to be there and actually gave it an outlet

through movement and through music.

And what's really cool is that she had a pretty good anchoring in her

safety state, used movement used music as a further safety anchoring.

And.

And, uh, flight flight discharge.

And then also had some co-regulation because her - her

dog joined in, that's super cool.

She goes on to say, I had a very strong memory of being

on a roundabout as a child.

Being very frightened and crying, trying to get off.

But in the present, my arms went up as if I was flying.

I'll be honest.

I don't.

I don't know what a roundabout is.

Here in United States a roundabout is an intersection.

It's you drive through a roundabout.

I'm guessing it's some sort of highly sympathetic ride that she

was on uh, that is not local to me.

If you're on YouTube, you know what a roundabout is, please put in the comments.

So that's what I'm running with.

I'm guessing that's what it is.

So, anyhow, she says, Macy says, I she had done some strange

movements, couldn't call it dancing.

Twirling around dog joined in.

And then she says, I had a very strong memory of being

on a roundabout as a child.

Being very frightened and crying, trying to get off.

But in the present my arms went up as if I was flying.

It felt fabulous and freeing.

I stopped as soon as I sensed a slight wave of defensive energy.

Good job.

And the cognition, the thought that she had was, "This might be too much."

Really good breakdown by the way of all the different pieces that

we talk about in the courses.

All the different safety anchoring pathways.

The co-regulation, your Polyvagal knowledge.

Uh, Spot on.

Uh, but then also noticing and breaking down the pieces of your

SSIEC - your state sensation, impulse, emotion, and cognition.

And by the way, I'll put a download link for you, for

everybody in the, uh, description.

If you sign up for my email list, I'll give you that sheet to help

you name all these different things you're going through.

So you're able to break down your thoughts, your emotions, your sensations.

That's like really good, really, really good job, Macy.

So what happened here?

Why did this memory come into Macy's mind?

Well, she was successfully self-regulating.

And we know that story follow state.

The thoughts in our brain, whether they're cognitive, like word-based,

I mean, or images, or beliefs or memories, whatever it is.

The thoughts in our brain- the cognitions- follow the state of our body.

So, Macy or for you Dear Listener, there may be a moment in time that really

just left this imprint on your body and it could be a traumatizing one.

And that's, what's gonna come up for you as you self-regulate or as you

feel things in the present moment that are reminiscent of the past.

So for Macy, the sympathetic activation that was coming up within her was

reminiscent of the roundabout as a child.

And it sounds like that moment left, uh, an imprint on her of some kind.

So as we self-regulate and as these new feelings and emotions and

sensations come into our body or returning ones you know, return to our

body, then our thoughts will follow.

And then our thoughts will remember or conjure up that thing that once

happened way back when, or the thing that somebody said when you were little.

Or there-

oh yeah, there was this time that I did X, Y, and Z.

Your thoughts, your story will follow the state of your nervous system.

So if you're in a safety state, your thoughts will be more flavored by safety.

If you're in sympathetic state, your thoughts will be sympa-

sympathetically flavored.

And that might be memory ones as well.

What Macy did here is actually a really good example of how I think about

and teach and work with my clients.

I don't- I mean, my clients can meet with me and talk about past events.

Uh, even past traumatic events is totally fine.

We, of course the past always comes up.

We talk about the past.

But the way that I work is in the present moment.

My focus is pretty much entirely on what's happening right here and right now, even

as we're talking about the past, well, how do we feel about it right here?

Right now?

As we do these self-regulation practices in the courses or in my one-on-one

work, then the memories of the past will come up, as we self-regulate.

Then, that event that you went through, all of a sudden it

becomes much more relevant.

So rather than fishing for past traumatic events, fishing for parental issues,

fishing for pasts relationship issues, I focus on the here and the now.

As it's relevant, as you self-regulate, then.

"Oh, yeah, there was that thing that happened when I was a kid."

"Oh, yeah, I do have this history of these types of relationships."

Then all of a sudden your brain starts to remember or put together

things in a much different way.

So I focus on present moment and Macy to you, and for, for the

for you, Dear Listener, if that's your focus, I say, keep doing it.

Focus on the present moment.

Your body will tell you what it needs.

You listen to it.

And then as you do those self-regulation practices, then your brain will remember.

Or have a new thought maybe it may be more hopeful one.

But yeah, memories might be a part of what comes up in your brain.

Macy said that "In the present, my arms went up as if I was flying."

You had an impulse and you listened to it.

And you let your body complete that impulse in the present moment.

That was really, really good.

It felt fabulous.

It felt freeing.

Yeah.

It was that same sympathetic energy or similar enough with a different outcome.

It wasn't in defense.

It wasn't out of control.

It was not lost as a kid.

It wasn't overwhelmed as a kid.

It was in the present moment with you as an adult feeling it and experiencing it

with your your safety state, strongly, firmly anchored in the present moment.

And that unlocked all this self-regulation that unfolded from that.

And so she stopped as soon as she sends a slight wave of defensive energy and the

thought was, "This might be too much."

That's totally fine.

You might reach a point where you realize, or, or where your bodies - where, where

it feels like too much and then your brain says this might be too much.

So you could listen to that and pause and rest, recover and come back to it.

That's totally fine.

Or if you're up for it- one other option, not just for Macy but for all of us is

that we can say, no, I can handle this.

And maybe tip toe a bit further into it.

I just don't want anyone to end up in further dysregulation

and retraumatize themself.

So.

If you're feeling like it's too much, if it starts to feel like overwhelm

or fear, that's probably a pretty good indication that you're- that's too much.

But if there's some safety.

If there's some, yes, I can do this left within you then I think it's okay

to take another step and just feel a little bit more into whatever the new

defensive wave is that that's coming up.

You don't have to, but, but it's an option.

Macy asks, Justin, please, could you consider your next course

covering how to move into feeling safe with sympathetic activation?

So this is covered in the Unstucking Defensive States course.

But, uh, I can definitely, actually, I already am.

So I have the Shutdown to Stillness, which is shut down into stillness.

The course I'm working on right now is Stillness to Sympathetic or

Stillness to Mobilization musher, or I'm going to call it yet.

But, but yeah, this is the next step here as far as the coursework goes.

Uh, within my Total Access Membership.

So yeah, Macy that.

Is coming.

When?

I don't know, but that is the next thing I'm creating is how do we

welcome sympathetic activation.

with compassion and use it?

Just like uh, just.

Macy did here.

That's it.

Macy again, like seriously incredible.

Great job.

And thank you so much for sharing this this little self-regulation

story in the Stucknaut Collective.

I love hearing from the Stucknaut Collective members or from my

clients and, and seeing the changes that they go through.

I love hearing from people in the podcast or on youTube that are finding success

through these present moment mindfulness practices, through using political theory-

that knowledge- and then building on it.

So I love hearing this stuff.

And I hope Dear Listener to hear from you that you're finding some success as well.

If you'd like to join me and Macy and others in a really wonderful

small community- the Stucknut Collective- you are here by invited.

I would love to see you in there.

It's a great little community.

It also has all my trauma recovery courses.

You can get the community, get the courses, open Q&As, a second podcast

and other stuff in the Stuck Not Broken: Total Access Membership.

I'll have a link for you in the description.

Once you sign up for the Stuck Not Broken: Total Access Membership, you can chit chat

with us in the community, share a picture of your pet if you can, you can also start

taking the, all the courses immediately.

Everything's available for you right away.

And you can start making change today.

Like, literally.

You could sign up today.

Start taking courses, and it's simple knowledge that is

designed to be used immediately.

So it's not like ethereal thoughts about parts and shadows, and ego, and all this

abstract woo-woo psychobabble stuff.

It is information you can build on today.

You are hereby invited.

I would love to see you inside the Stucknaut Collective . Bye.

This podcast is not therapy, not intended to be therapy or

be a replacement for therapy.

Nothing in this creates or indicates a therapeutic relationship.

Please consult with your therapist or seek for one in your area if you are

experiencing mental health symptoms.

Nothing in this podcast should be construed to be specific life

advice, it is for educational and entertainment purposes only.