Welcome to Barbecue Nation with JT and Leanne After Hours, the conversation that continued after the show was done.

Hey, everybody, it's JT and this is a special version of Barbecue Nation.

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That's Painted Hills Natural Beef.

Hey, everybody.

Welcome to After Hours here on Barbecue Nation.

I'm JT along with hall of famer Leanne Whippen, who is my co pilot on this adventure.

And today we're talking with chef Ray Sheehan.

If you didn't catch the regular show, which you probably did, but if you didn't, I would recommend it very highly.

Ray is somebody that has been in the trenches in the food world and the barbecue business for quite a while, yet he's still only 17, and he's got a lot to go there.

He's an accomplished author and creator, so check him out.

Ray, you know, this is the lightning round in After Hours.

This is where, you know, we ask you some questions that maybe make your head hairs on the top of your head tingle, something like that.

I don't know.

Your.

Your personal reaction is always interesting to as our guest here.

So are you ready?

I'm ready.

Okay.

We'll start off with something really easy.

What do you think the best food show is on television?

I.

Barbecue Brawl.

Barbecue Brawl.

Okay.

Okay.

And, Leanne, you can jump in and if you want to, say, throw down with Bobby, your episodes on it, that's fine, too.

I like the Barbecue Brawl.

Okay.

And each year, it gets more interesting because it isn't just barbecue championships.

I mean, they're taking people that.

Some of them are just out of the kitchen, so it really makes it interesting.

Yeah.

Yeah.

What would you say, Ray, your success to failure ratio is like in creating a new book or a new blend of seasoning like that.

How the.

This premise of this question is, how many times do you have to try before you get something that you think is good?

Until it's.

Until it's right.

My motto for 24 is right, not rushed.

So we'll do it as many times as we need to until it's right.

For me, when I create, it's always a process of revision and getting it to the point where people can digest it, whether it's a rub, a sauce, a book.

You know, when I created my Memphis mop sauce, it took me almost 100 recipes.

I mean, I would try it, think it was great.

Then I'd have people try it, and then I would take their Feedback and then be like, oh, okay.

So I thought that they like this, but they didn't like that.

And then the finished product was, you know, a great sauce that left the spices lingering on your palate, but it took a lot of time to get to that because it needed to be more about the spices, you know, in the sauce.

But you're always looking for that hook, whatever, you know, that keeps people interested.

And, you know, you have to do it as many times as you can until it's right.

And don't rush something and put it out there when it's not ready.

Yeah.

Your sauces were phenomenal.

By the way, who is somebody in the barbecue world or the food world that really got your attention this last year?

Artie Davis.

Artie Davis.

You know, he's old school, and he's just so intelligent and.

And just.

He's.

He's just been great to me and is somebody that really influenced me.

So good.

Leanne, did you get your nuts from Artie?

Not this year.

The first year I did not.

And it was the last year that Artie was at the Jack, and I wanted one from this year more than any year, and they were all gone.

Yeah, I think this is.

Was the last year at the Jack, I think, is.

It is.

Yes.

I walked the.

I walked the parade route with him from when the parade was over till we went and got on the buses to go up to the party.

And it was a nice little walk, but I got to walk with him and.

And, boy, in that 10 minutes or so, he just shared so much history and stuff, and I got one of the nuts.

I probably shouldn't tell you that, but.

No, anyway.

But there's so many.

There's so many great, you know, influences that.

That people in barbecue, it.

You know, like Dave Raymond that, like, talking to me about sauces, I'm like, where were you eight years ago?

You know?

Yeah.

And, you know, Tuffy Stone, you know, he was a chef before getting into barbecue, so, you know, it's like a similar track for me.

So when I see him and I can pick his brain about stuff, and, like, that's really cool, too.

Like, he was at an event at Meadow Creek Barbecue Supply this year.

I ended up writing an article about it in the Barbecue News, but, I mean, so at the ready to help others.

I really love that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Did you ever come across, in all your days in the kitchen, ray of a food item or a dish that you just could not master?

I feel like if.

If I.

If I put my mind to It.

I would do okay with it or, or master it to, so to speak.

But there's certain things that I just don't like that I've had to cook, like for events.

Yeah.

And I. I did my best, but, like, I wouldn't even want, like rabbit.

Like, I don't.

I'm not gonna eat rabbit.

Just certain things, you know, Tripe, you know?

Yeah, yeah, not interested.

But.

But I've had to cook them.

And then it came out that people said they were good, but I don't know.

Okay, well, that.

My follow up question to that was, what's the worst thing you've ever eaten?

Tripe or liver?

I'm not interested in either one.

I think.

Now I can do liver.

I can do liver.

But tripe?

Yeah, not so much.

What was the absolute best day of your life so far?

Wow.

The best day of my life.

Yeah.

Probably the day I got married.

Good answer.

That's a smart answer, Ray, but it's an.

It's an honest answer.

And the short version.

I'll give you the short version.

But I knew my wife in high school and I always had a crush on her, but it just didn't work out.

You know, she had a boyfriend, I was weird, you know, all that.

And it wasn't until my friend married her friend that we were in the wedding party together due to someone not showing up to the wedding in the wedding party.

So after that I was just.

Still, I was really hooked.

And then.

So to.

To actually get married to someone that you've had a crush on for so long and it like, worked out, you know, it's.

We've been together almost 22 years.

Was your first date to the bookstore in a coffee shop?

Coffee?

Yes.

But not.

No, not to the bookstore yet.

I think that was like the second or third date that was.

That was a surprise for later.

Okay.

If you could erase a mistake from history now, this can be your history or world history, doesn't matter.

What would it be and why?

So I. I'm not sure because I, you know, I believe everything like that has happened in, in life has brought me to where I am today.

So I wouldn't erase anything because this is where I.

It got me to where I am today.

Yeah.

Okay, fair enough.

So I. I think I asked you this before, but ask it again this time.

If you were declared supreme ruler of barbecue for a day, what would you decree?

And Leanne would be your enforcer?

There will be no boiling of ribs ever.

No boiling.

I agree.

Golf clap.

Golf clap.

What's your absolute favorite non barbecue food or dish?

I. I love spaghetti and meatballs.

Me too.

Me.

Good.

What.

What's your least favorite activity in the world?

Raking.

Raking leaves.

You have a lot of leaves there.

There shall be no raking of the leaves.

Only with the blower.

Backpack blower.

Okay.

Shoveling snow.

Yeah, totally.

I miss living in Florida.

Like.

Yeah, yeah.

To some extent, you know, like there was no.

Never any raking of leaves or shoveling snow.

So if.

If we get any snow this year, I think I'll FedEx Leanne some so.

She can get snowball, you know, like that.

Do you remember the first thing you ever got in trouble for as a kid?

Not.

Not.

Not coming home on time.

You know, you're supposed to be home when the street lights are out and we were riding bikes and I just lost track of time and my mom was so worried, you know, that she didn't know where I was.

And it's not like today when you have the phones and all these GPS trackers and everything, so.

Right.

That happened once, didn't happen again.

Yeah, I get that too.

My mom was little, but I didn't know how fast she was.

Yeah, yeah, my mom was pretty fleet of foot when.

When it got.

Got down to the nitty gritty.

If you could cook for then dine with a historical figure, who would it be and what would be on your menu?

With a historical figure?

Huh?

Yeah, they can be deceased or alive.

Yeah, we'll dig them up.

I mean, I think I would cook for Einstein and.

And I would make him a big barbecue spread.

There you go.

And.

And have him critique it.

There you go.

See?

You must have watched Oppenheimer too.

Like I did.

I did.

Yes.

Yeah.

Okay.

All right.

If you were an animal, what animal would you be?

Probably a bear.

Really?

Why?

I don't know.

Because I feel like they hibernate, so they sleep and they actually get rest and then they're like, so hungry.

And that would be me.

I'd be like, oh, I can't wait to eat.

Okay.

What?

This is one I know you've not heard before, Ray.

What is something your spouse was right about, but you still think that they are wrong?

Loading the dishwasher.

How to load the dishwasher.

I have that same thing.

It is a matter of opinion.

It is.

But like, so typically, I'm the one that empties it, so I like to load it a certain way so I can grab stuff like a couple at a time and put them away.

But all right, so.

Okay.

So let me ask you this, because this is an actual bone of contention sometimes in our house.

Sure.

This is another show.

Yeah, it's another show.

And Leanne's been here.

I'm.

I'm a stickler about how you put the silverware in, because I like.

You know, we've got the dishwasher, and it's got the little flap, and it's got the individual slots for nice fork, spoons, whatever.

My wife just likes to take them, rinse them off, and just lift that little flap up and just stick them in there, and they're kind of in these clusters.

And I'm like, it doesn't get as clean when you do that.

Okay.

There can be a food particle on there or whatever.

And she goes, no, it works.

And so there's a lot of times I've given away the trade secrets here, but if I'm the last guy to put something in the dishwasher, I'll actually take the silver thing.

Silverware thing out and re.

Insert them in those little slots so they get really clean.

Put it back in.

Put the.

The soap and the rinse thing in or whatever and start it.

And because I'm also the one that empties it most of the time, so I get away with it.

All right.

But that's a real thing with me.

It's a.

It's a dumb thing.

I know.

No, I totally get it.

Like, my wife and my son will put stuff in the dishwasher, and I have to reorganize it.

Yeah.

So I'm the one that puts it away.

So you need to ask Leanne about her silverware drawer.

Well, I have a problem.

I'm an obsessive compulsive disorder person, and I have to count all my silverware once the dishwasher is unloaded to make sure that I have eight of everything so that I know I'm not missing anything.

It's like a weird thing.

Yeah.

But I tend to be on a different page then, Jeff.

I feel like it's a huge waste of time putting the silverware in those little holes.

So I lift it as well, dump them in there.

I know it's hot, sanitized, and if it doesn't come clean, then it stays in there, but I'm not gonna waste my time.

Not only that, you gotta put forks with the tines up in it, and when I put my hand down to pick a fork up, it goes under my fingernails, and it's dangerous.

Oh, okay.

That's the reason.

Multiple reasons.

Why not do that.

So do you, so do you put your, your knives, like, if you've got a, a pairing.

Knives down.

Knives down.

Always knives down.

Spoons up.

Spoons up.

Oh, yeah, because they leave those little circles in the middle of the spoon, you know, like a little.

If they.

Not if you.

Not if you scrub them before you put them in.

Oh, well, that, that's again, a whole nother thing.

Like, okay, why do you have a dishwasher?

Okay.

To sanitize?

I don't know.

I, I think that's the most interesting discussion we've had on that particular question in after hours.

I, I like that a lot.

So, Ray, what's the biggest change you think should be made in food advertising?

Oh, boy.

I mean, I mean, I mean, let's look, let's be serious.

Well, you, you go.

You.

McDonald's is on there and they always show.

And Leanne's sister is a food stylist and she actually creates some of those items that you see in the TV commercials.

You know, paints them, makes them shiny and all that.

That is not the hamburger you're going to get when you go to Mickey D's and the drive thru and they hand out the Big Mac or whatever.

Now that's a misnomer.

It may not look like the item, but she is a food stylist for major corporations.

And I actually have done a Popeyes food styling job with her and I'm getting ready to do another one for a very large company.

And the ounces of meat that they put on their sandwiches that they are creating food styling in the commercials and print is the exact ounces.

It cannot be more, it can't be less so.

And technically, all the items on the creation are what you get in the restaurant.

This is the big thing.

They push it all forward and they make it look bigger because they're taking a picture of the front of it.

But in actuality, it is the same amount of food, so they aren't adding anything in it to make it bigger.

But I mean, you have to think about what their job is and what advertising's all about.

It has to look good because then the consumer won't buy it.

So you're right, you aren't going to.

And you have to think about Taco Bell.

They're wrapping things up and things.

And of course it's.

Even if you made the most beautiful taco in the world, when you wrap it up and throw it in a bag, it's not going to look the same.

The taste is still going to be there.

Though they're very consistent, you know, with the taste for the most part.

That's the key with franchises and the fast food industry, you know, I'm just saying, is consistency.

And they, and, and they're good about that.

But I'll let him answer the question now.

Well, I mean, and that, that's a great point too because like, you're actually.

Is the sandwich.

It's just once it's wrapped up and handled, I mean, it's gonna get.

The bun's gonna get a little mushy or it's gonna.

Right.

You know, get compressed.

But I think for truth in advertising, like, I think they should have to tell you exactly what's in it or why it's in the food.

Like, there, there was a saying like, you know, you have the, the us.

You have to know what's in your mattress, but not necessarily in your food.

With the, the, you know, you're not even allowed to take the thing off your mattress.

The label.

Right.

But some of these companies should have to say what certain ingredients are so you can make a decision.

I've served a lot of time in jail for removing my tags off my hair dryers.

Yeah.

Next time you go for a job, you're going to be like, well, I took the, I took the label off my hair dryer and I was going.

To be a lifer if I did my pillow.

So I decided to leave my pillow.

I can just see Leanne behind the bars with the tin cups, rattling it on the cage going.

Nobody knows the sorrow.

I've seen the best barbecue in jail, though.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I can make some smoked bologna sandwiches like no other.

Oh, yeah.

I just to touch back on the food thing.

It's like, you see this gorgeous.

It doesn't matter.

It's McDonald's or Taco Bell or any of them.

And they all look great.

And then you get your Big Mac and there's a half a headed shredded lettuce laying around on the bottom of the container.

Well, it's like when you can go to a fine dining restaurant, your meal might not be as good as the first time.

It's who's on the line, who's cooking, who the chef is.

You know, there's always the variable, even at McDonald's, how much ketchup and mustard they put on there.

There's.

You know what I mean?

Like, there's variables.

It's never going to be a perfect world, but, you know, they try to get as close as possible.

Sure, sure.

I know just a little sidebar story.

We have a.

There's.

There's a little burger joint in the next little burg over from where we live.

And We've lived here 13 years, and for 12 and 8, 10 years, we never had a bad burger there.

Never.

They were always good.

And we actually went in and sat down one day, this was about a month and a half ago, and we ordered just bacon cheeseburger, what have you.

And it was the worst thing that I had ever eaten.

It really was.

And I think that it.

It goes to what you just said.

Leanne, who was on the line, they were using really, it's like they didn't want to slice another onion.

They had some leftover rings, not fried rings, just raw, you know, and they were thick and they were thick cut and they.

And it was overbearing on the burger and that.

And I was really surprised.

But it makes sense to what you're.

You're saying is it really depends on who's in the kitchen.

So, you know, and yeah, you get the same thing with fried foods.

You know, did they change the oil?

Did you know?

Is the oil three days old?

You know, because oil is extremely expensive.

So you get into these little, tiny little restaurants that are watching every cost possible, and they're trying to stretch the oil out.

They might filter it, but you know, what bad oil does to your food, it totally changes the result.

And, you know, a good restaurant is going to change it every day, you.

Know, and you can tell there's where we live, there's up north.

There's one Chinese restaurant that I've been going to for a long, long time.

My dad turned me on to it when I was in college that tells you how long it's been.

They change their oil probably six days a week because, you know, there's nothing that, like if you ordered some fried shrimp in a Chinese restaurant, and you can taste that old oil and that kind of nasty.

And these guys are always fresh and crisp and.

And lovely.

It's great stuff.

Okay, on to something else here.

Ray, what's your favorite classic movie?

Mine happens to be, you know, Casablanca, and I think Leanne's is Elf or something.

I'm not sure, but.

Well, it depends what time of year.

Are we talking holiday movie?

Are we talking any.

Anything?

Oh, I like Scarface.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So every.

Every summer I go camping.

I take my son camping, just the two of us.

Guys trip, he brings like a DVD player.

We hook it up to the TV in the cabin and we watch Scarface and it's like, oh, really?

It's awesome.

Oh, yeah.

Every.

Every year.

I love that.

And Reservoir Dogs is another good one.

Yeah.

To my little friend.

There you go.

But if we're talking holiday movies, planes, Trains and Automobiles.

Yeah, that's a good one.

There you go.

Name one book because you like to read.

Name one book that should be mandatory reading for everybody.

Everybody.

One book that should be mandatory reading.

Let me see.

Big Green Egg Basics from a monologue.

Something that should be mandatory reading.

I don't know.

I don't know who wrote it, but it was, like, the book of manners.

Oh, that's Emily Post.

Oh, Post.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

There you go.

Mine would be like Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas.

So there you go.

I was a Hunter Thompson fanatic for a long time.

Last one here.

If you are on death row, which you're not, and Leanne's on parole for removing mattress and hairdryer tags, but if you were on.

If you were on death row, what would your last meal be?

My last meal would be smoked beef ribs, grilled lobster tails with garlic butter.

Oh, yeah.

And vanilla bean creme brulee.

Wow, that's very good.

Yeah.

I'll be in the cell next to you.

I'll take the leftovers.

Okay.

So when you're walking down with the bag over your head, you can just pass it off to me like that.

All right, Chef Ray Sheen again, your website will be out.

You said what, my Valentine's Day?

Something like that should be rayshean.com and in the meantime, you can catch me on Facebook.

Chef Ray Sheehan.

Instagram.

Chef Rayshihan Sheehan is S H E E h A n. Very good, Ray.

Thank you.

It's always a pleasure to talk with you.

And we'll be back next week with another edition of Barbecue Nation with Jeff and Leanne.

I don't know who the guest is going to be because it's early in the year, so I haven't done all the bookings.

I was slack in my duties after Christmas there, and we'll live with it, though.

But thanks, Ray.

I appreciate it.

Thank you for having me.

Ms. Leanne, always a pleasure.

We'll be back, like I said, next week with another edition of Barbecue Nation.

Until then, remember our motto.

Turn it, don't burn it.

Take care, everybody.