1 00:00:08,850 --> 00:00:12,379 Matt Edmundson: Well, hello and welcome to the e commerce podcast 2 00:00:12,450 --> 00:00:14,989 with me, your host, Matt Edmundson. 3 00:00:15,000 --> 00:00:19,840 Now this is a show all about helping you deliver E commerce. 4 00:00:19,870 --> 00:00:20,240 Wow. 5 00:00:20,320 --> 00:00:24,460 And to help us do just that, I'm chatting with today's special guest, 6 00:00:24,860 --> 00:00:30,439 Nikita Vakrushchev from Aspect about the secret email and SMS strategies 7 00:00:30,819 --> 00:00:33,069 you have got to get your head around. 8 00:00:33,120 --> 00:00:35,160 Oh yes, we're going to be talking about email. 9 00:00:35,179 --> 00:00:36,399 We're going to be talking about SMS. 10 00:00:36,439 --> 00:00:37,289 We're going to be talking. 11 00:00:37,289 --> 00:00:39,079 about that to some insane depths. 12 00:00:39,099 --> 00:00:40,179 I have no doubt. 13 00:00:40,419 --> 00:00:45,099 Now, because it's such a hot topic, you're going to want to get the notes and the 14 00:00:45,109 --> 00:00:48,439 transcript from today's show, which you can get at the website, ecommercepodcast. 15 00:00:48,439 --> 00:00:48,829 net. 16 00:00:49,179 --> 00:00:52,369 But if you have already signed up to the newsletter, guess what? 17 00:00:52,400 --> 00:00:53,790 They'll be going straight to your inbox. 18 00:00:54,109 --> 00:00:57,749 And if you haven't got it signed up to the newsletter yet, make sure you do that. 19 00:00:57,760 --> 00:00:59,120 You can do that at ecommercepodcast. 20 00:00:59,839 --> 00:01:00,100 net. 21 00:01:00,109 --> 00:01:01,609 Just put in your name and email address. 22 00:01:02,129 --> 00:01:06,789 All we'll do is we'll send you a weekly sort of update of the guests we've had, 23 00:01:06,789 --> 00:01:09,470 the notes, the links to the guests, all those kind of good things, they 24 00:01:09,470 --> 00:01:11,359 come straight to you, which is awesome. 25 00:01:11,929 --> 00:01:16,409 Now, big shout out to eCommerce Cohort, that's who brings you 26 00:01:16,419 --> 00:01:18,139 this show, the eCommerce podcast. 27 00:01:18,539 --> 00:01:22,139 The eCommerce Cohort is our monthly membership group. 28 00:01:22,509 --> 00:01:26,149 And it's amazing, even if I do say so myself, which of course 29 00:01:26,150 --> 00:01:29,410 I'm going to I'm in there, whole bunch of people are in there. 30 00:01:29,420 --> 00:01:33,770 We get expert workshops every month from e commerce experts, basically. 31 00:01:33,810 --> 00:01:36,460 They come in, they share their knowledge, we learn a whole great deal from them. 32 00:01:36,860 --> 00:01:39,969 Plus, there's a little bonus, oh yes. 33 00:01:40,240 --> 00:01:42,569 If you're in in the cohort, if you're a member. 34 00:01:43,469 --> 00:01:48,609 You can join us on the live recordings of the podcast, which is just fantastic. 35 00:01:48,609 --> 00:01:50,259 They get played into the cohort. 36 00:01:50,649 --> 00:01:54,659 You can come along, talk to the guests, ask the questions, and it's just. 37 00:01:54,989 --> 00:01:55,379 Good. 38 00:01:55,579 --> 00:01:56,059 Fun. 39 00:01:56,159 --> 00:01:59,919 So yes, go ahead and join the cohort, ecommercecohort. 40 00:01:59,979 --> 00:02:01,729 com is the website URL. 41 00:02:01,729 --> 00:02:04,099 If you want to know more, that's ecommercecohort. 42 00:02:04,139 --> 00:02:04,449 com. 43 00:02:04,799 --> 00:02:07,349 Tell them Matt sent you and I'll see you in there. 44 00:02:07,719 --> 00:02:10,149 Now let's talk to Nikita. 45 00:02:10,314 --> 00:02:14,954 From Aspect, the digital marketing wizard who turned his e commerce dream into a 46 00:02:14,964 --> 00:02:20,654 booming agency reality with a playbook of marketing magic under his belt. 47 00:02:20,684 --> 00:02:25,294 Nikita found his golden goose in email and SMS marketing, 48 00:02:25,584 --> 00:02:28,934 scaling over 100 plus DTC brands. 49 00:02:29,224 --> 00:02:29,764 Now. 50 00:02:30,014 --> 00:02:35,004 Wielding email as his bread and butter, he's here to share his secret sauce on 51 00:02:35,004 --> 00:02:39,234 squeezing every last drop of success from your brand's retention channels. 52 00:02:39,254 --> 00:02:41,924 Oh yes, I'm loving this bio. 53 00:02:42,624 --> 00:02:45,244 Buckle up, it's gonna be an electrifying ride. 54 00:02:45,544 --> 00:02:47,654 Nikita, welcome to the show man, great to have you. 55 00:02:47,654 --> 00:02:49,554 How are we doing today, sir? 56 00:02:50,389 --> 00:02:51,289 Nikita Vakhrushev: Appreciate you, Matt. 57 00:02:51,289 --> 00:02:52,469 Thank you for having me on. 58 00:02:52,509 --> 00:02:58,109 I don't remember if I wrote that bio or if that was one of your assistants, but I 59 00:02:58,129 --> 00:03:02,599 do like the kind words and I'm also glad that you brought up the newsletter for the 60 00:03:02,599 --> 00:03:07,069 show because I am part of it and I did get a You're one on Jason Wood this morning. 61 00:03:07,069 --> 00:03:09,239 I see, you're doing it right with email. 62 00:03:09,269 --> 00:03:09,539 So 63 00:03:10,909 --> 00:03:13,029 Matt Edmundson: We should get some tips from you on how to do that 64 00:03:13,029 --> 00:03:16,929 newsletter better Rather than just assume I'm doing everything, right? 65 00:03:17,659 --> 00:03:20,019 Excuse me, by the way, ladies and gentlemen, I have got a bit of a cold, 66 00:03:20,019 --> 00:03:24,739 which is why I've Got a few nasal tones going on here You'll be pleased to know my 67 00:03:24,739 --> 00:03:29,539 man flu has not been so serious that I've had to call the paramedics But it has been 68 00:03:29,539 --> 00:03:31,759 close on occasion we're getting better. 69 00:03:32,209 --> 00:03:33,799 So yes do sign up for the newsletter. 70 00:03:33,979 --> 00:03:36,479 So Jason Woods obviously come out today, which is going to give you 71 00:03:36,479 --> 00:03:40,069 some indication of when this was recorded and when it goes out. 72 00:03:40,439 --> 00:03:43,040 But yeah it's good that those are going out and there's quite a few 73 00:03:43,040 --> 00:03:44,310 thousand people on the newsletter list. 74 00:03:44,359 --> 00:03:44,940 Come join them. 75 00:03:45,010 --> 00:03:46,840 Why not be there or be square? 76 00:03:46,879 --> 00:03:47,859 I don't mind either way. 77 00:03:47,859 --> 00:03:48,980 It works for me now. 78 00:03:51,829 --> 00:03:54,749 NIkita, where we were talking before we hit the record button, you're 79 00:03:54,749 --> 00:03:56,249 based over in Nashville, right? 80 00:03:56,249 --> 00:03:57,100 Nashville, Tennessee. 81 00:03:57,899 --> 00:03:58,369 Nikita Vakhrushev: Yes, sir. 82 00:03:58,420 --> 00:04:00,989 Yeah, I moved here about a year and a half ago. 83 00:04:01,029 --> 00:04:04,380 And recently we, my girlfriend and I actually just moved from 84 00:04:04,380 --> 00:04:05,769 our apartment into a house. 85 00:04:05,779 --> 00:04:08,939 So for the last two weeks, it's been nothing but chaos. 86 00:04:08,939 --> 00:04:12,239 And it's right smack dab in the middle of Q4. 87 00:04:12,480 --> 00:04:15,269 So we're just in the middle of unpacking, moving and everything. 88 00:04:15,270 --> 00:04:18,849 And Clients are asking for their Black Friday, 7 Monday emails and whatnot. 89 00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:21,130 So it's just, yeah, busy time. 90 00:04:21,130 --> 00:04:23,580 It's a lot to juggle, I'm glad I moved here. 91 00:04:23,590 --> 00:04:25,040 It's, people are very nice. 92 00:04:25,050 --> 00:04:29,610 It's a beautiful city and the weather isn't as bad as Chicago, 93 00:04:29,610 --> 00:04:31,190 which is where I'm from originally. 94 00:04:31,445 --> 00:04:31,985 Matt Edmundson: Okay. 95 00:04:32,195 --> 00:04:32,555 Okay. 96 00:04:32,555 --> 00:04:35,105 Yeah, you've just gone down south a little bit, haven't you, really? 97 00:04:35,615 --> 00:04:38,495 And yeah, Nashville, the home of good country music 98 00:04:38,645 --> 00:04:39,215 Nikita Vakhrushev: music City, 99 00:04:39,485 --> 00:04:40,055 Matt Edmundson: that's what we call it. 100 00:04:40,060 --> 00:04:40,565 Yeah, absolutely. 101 00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:40,880 Yeah. 102 00:04:40,885 --> 00:04:41,615 Yeah, absolutely. 103 00:04:42,165 --> 00:04:45,545 I lived in North Carolina for a little while, so just across the border and 104 00:04:45,545 --> 00:04:47,405 but never actually made it to Nashville. 105 00:04:47,405 --> 00:04:47,645 Never. 106 00:04:47,645 --> 00:04:49,475 It's one of the few cities in the US I've not been to. 107 00:04:49,475 --> 00:04:52,175 I've been to Chicago, but never to Nashville. 108 00:04:52,175 --> 00:04:53,375 Maybe I just need to go one day. 109 00:04:54,275 --> 00:04:56,435 Nikita Vakhrushev: Gotta head down South , but yeah. 110 00:04:57,935 --> 00:04:58,895 Yeah, I know. 111 00:04:59,345 --> 00:05:03,595 I know in the intro we talked about my golden goose is email marketing, but 112 00:05:03,655 --> 00:05:05,295 it wasn't always like that, actually. 113 00:05:05,765 --> 00:05:09,175 I got started in like the whole entrepreneurial journey about a few 114 00:05:09,175 --> 00:05:10,825 years ago, not a few years ago, actually. 115 00:05:11,685 --> 00:05:12,415 I'm getting old, man. 116 00:05:12,465 --> 00:05:14,385 I started this when I was 19. 117 00:05:14,735 --> 00:05:16,095 I just turned 26. 118 00:05:16,505 --> 00:05:18,585 Yeah, you're well old, ancient, mate, ancient. 119 00:05:19,245 --> 00:05:21,135 The wrinkles are showing up day by day. 120 00:05:23,055 --> 00:05:24,705 So yeah, 121 00:05:24,705 --> 00:05:25,575 Matt Edmundson: I started because 122 00:05:25,575 --> 00:05:25,705 I 123 00:05:25,735 --> 00:05:26,755 Nikita Vakhrushev: turned 50 this year. 124 00:05:27,340 --> 00:05:28,950 Oh, you don't look 50, I 125 00:05:28,950 --> 00:05:31,790 Matt Edmundson: appreciate you saying that, but yeah, it's funny when you hear 126 00:05:31,790 --> 00:05:35,220 a 26 year old guy just sit there and go, I feel old, man, I'm just really old. 127 00:05:35,990 --> 00:05:37,780 Nikita Vakhrushev: I had an existential crisis the other week. 128 00:05:41,900 --> 00:05:42,430 Matt Edmundson: Oh dear. 129 00:05:44,090 --> 00:05:47,180 Sorry, I shouldn't laugh, but I do find that thing funny. 130 00:05:48,260 --> 00:05:49,620 Nikita Vakhrushev: I don't know, I think the younger generation 131 00:05:49,620 --> 00:05:53,070 just like myself, we think that every time moves a lot quicker. 132 00:05:53,280 --> 00:05:53,470 It does. 133 00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:54,810 Or at least it does on my... 134 00:05:55,225 --> 00:05:58,575 In my perspective, so it's wow, I'm 26, I haven't done anything, but 135 00:05:58,575 --> 00:06:02,005 then, you take a moment to reflect and it's wow, actually I have done 136 00:06:02,005 --> 00:06:07,115 something, but yeah, in the forefront, it feels like I'm just, doing things. 137 00:06:07,445 --> 00:06:07,705 Yeah. 138 00:06:07,745 --> 00:06:08,365 I don't know how to explain it. 139 00:06:08,365 --> 00:06:09,025 It's a weird feeling. 140 00:06:09,375 --> 00:06:09,935 Matt Edmundson: No, I get it. 141 00:06:09,935 --> 00:06:10,585 I totally get it. 142 00:06:10,595 --> 00:06:14,945 And it's one of those things Nikita, what's going to happen is in 24 years 143 00:06:14,945 --> 00:06:18,295 time, when you turn 50 and you won't have, you'll have completely forgotten 144 00:06:18,295 --> 00:06:21,345 about this conversation, but in my head. 145 00:06:21,365 --> 00:06:26,195 I still feel like I'm 26, 27. 146 00:06:26,455 --> 00:06:30,455 That's the kind of age that when I got to that, I don't think in my head I've ever 147 00:06:30,455 --> 00:06:32,305 gone on further, if that makes sense. 148 00:06:33,345 --> 00:06:38,585 And so the age you are now is the, I, for me, it's been the age that I have been 149 00:06:38,635 --> 00:06:41,075 for quite a while, if that makes sense. 150 00:06:41,455 --> 00:06:44,785 And so when you reach 50, and if perhaps you do remember this conversation. 151 00:06:45,235 --> 00:06:47,535 You'll look back and you'll go I understand now what 152 00:06:47,535 --> 00:06:48,635 Matt was talking about. 153 00:06:49,775 --> 00:06:51,815 Nikita Vakhrushev: That does make a lot of sense because, pretty much up 154 00:06:51,815 --> 00:06:55,545 until this point, not directly, it wasn't a night and day difference, but 155 00:06:55,835 --> 00:06:59,175 I've always felt like I've been, like I feel younger than I actually am. 156 00:06:59,545 --> 00:07:02,575 Sometimes in good ways, sometimes in bad ways and making 157 00:07:02,575 --> 00:07:03,705 immature jokes and all that. 158 00:07:03,705 --> 00:07:05,875 I still do that now that 159 00:07:05,875 --> 00:07:08,615 Matt Edmundson: I'm 50. 160 00:07:08,695 --> 00:07:09,315 That never stops. 161 00:07:09,575 --> 00:07:10,875 I think that's more of a man thing. 162 00:07:10,955 --> 00:07:11,345 I don't know. 163 00:07:11,345 --> 00:07:11,985 I could be wrong. 164 00:07:12,980 --> 00:07:15,480 Nikita Vakhrushev: Yeah, the lack of maturity is still there, but, I 165 00:07:15,480 --> 00:07:19,090 still have been able to, evolve as a business owner and evolve to the point 166 00:07:19,100 --> 00:07:22,940 where, we've done some amazing things for our clients on both like just the 167 00:07:22,940 --> 00:07:26,600 email side, but on the relationship side as well, like helping them 168 00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:31,900 outside of what are, Our exact, direct like assets that we have to deliver. 169 00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:34,940 And I'm more than happy to share today all the things that we have 170 00:07:34,940 --> 00:07:37,205 done for our clients and some of the strategies that the listeners can 171 00:07:37,205 --> 00:07:37,298 Matt Edmundson: use. 172 00:07:37,298 --> 00:07:40,140 Yeah, I want to get into this this whole email thing, because 173 00:07:40,140 --> 00:07:41,340 obviously it's your bread and butter. 174 00:07:41,340 --> 00:07:41,900 It's what you do. 175 00:07:43,315 --> 00:07:47,975 As we said in the bio and so let's start at the top, Nikita, you've obviously 176 00:07:47,975 --> 00:07:52,095 had a lot of businesses come to you to talk to you about email and SMS. 177 00:07:52,515 --> 00:07:55,395 What's the most common mistake we're still making? 178 00:07:57,434 --> 00:07:58,564 Nikita Vakhrushev: Ooh, that's a big one. 179 00:07:58,715 --> 00:08:02,135 I'd say the lack of SMS capture. 180 00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:05,050 Is the big one that I still see in email accounts. 181 00:08:05,260 --> 00:08:08,070 SMS was a brand new thing way back when I started. 182 00:08:08,250 --> 00:08:12,380 And no one knew how to utilize it properly but now it's more of a mature industry. 183 00:08:12,985 --> 00:08:15,315 There's a lot of softwares that utilize SMS. 184 00:08:15,335 --> 00:08:18,215 Pretty much every email software that you see, like Klaviyo, 185 00:08:18,265 --> 00:08:23,074 OmniSend, Sendlane, MailChimp even, all have an SMS component to them. 186 00:08:23,505 --> 00:08:27,005 And when people come to visit your website, whether it's e commerce 187 00:08:27,005 --> 00:08:30,514 or non e commerce related, there's so many businesses that just 188 00:08:30,564 --> 00:08:32,295 aren't capturing that phone number. 189 00:08:32,295 --> 00:08:32,505 And that's... 190 00:08:33,205 --> 00:08:37,105 Just another way for you to reach your audience and it doesn't even take that 191 00:08:37,105 --> 00:08:41,095 much time for you to make that reach out you know with email campaigns you have 192 00:08:41,095 --> 00:08:46,025 to go out do the copy make the design set it up in Klaviyo or whatever you're using 193 00:08:46,525 --> 00:08:49,584 and schedule that out with SMS messaging. 194 00:08:49,644 --> 00:08:50,694 It's honestly not that hard. 195 00:08:50,994 --> 00:08:54,994 You just have to take the copy that you have with email, shrink it down, 196 00:08:55,214 --> 00:09:00,284 make it more personalized for the text message audience and send it out. 197 00:09:00,734 --> 00:09:02,914 And yes, it's a little bit more costly. 198 00:09:02,914 --> 00:09:06,364 It's not like email where you just play a flat subscription fee. 199 00:09:06,794 --> 00:09:10,734 With SMS you do have to pay for every send, but it's a more personalized way 200 00:09:10,734 --> 00:09:12,354 to reach out to your customer base. 201 00:09:12,724 --> 00:09:16,464 And at the same time, in some cases it's more effective than email because 202 00:09:16,464 --> 00:09:18,094 you're directly talking to the customer. 203 00:09:18,474 --> 00:09:22,404 Rather than going through their email where, sometimes people may overlook 204 00:09:22,404 --> 00:09:25,414 it or maybe they don't see it because, everyone else is emailing them. 205 00:09:26,294 --> 00:09:26,784 So why, 206 00:09:26,785 --> 00:09:29,865 Matt Edmundson: It's interesting you say that this is still the most 207 00:09:29,865 --> 00:09:32,755 common mistake, that actually we're not taking advantage of gathering 208 00:09:32,755 --> 00:09:34,125 people's phone numbers, right? 209 00:09:34,505 --> 00:09:37,315 And sending them the text messages, the SMS messages. 210 00:09:38,065 --> 00:09:42,985 Now, having been around the block, as we've established a few times, I am 211 00:09:42,985 --> 00:09:46,085 a bit of an e commerce dinosaur, but that's okay, I'm comfortable in my skin. 212 00:09:46,705 --> 00:09:47,375 Why... 213 00:09:49,075 --> 00:09:52,035 Why are we still not collecting the email addresses? 214 00:09:52,035 --> 00:09:56,485 Obviously the text there, the technology is there the understanding, we're going 215 00:09:56,485 --> 00:10:00,475 to get into that a little bit in today's show but it's not exactly, rocket science, 216 00:10:00,475 --> 00:10:01,905 it's locked in a vault at Fort Knox. 217 00:10:01,905 --> 00:10:03,535 We can get hold of that information. 218 00:10:04,065 --> 00:10:09,090 So what is it that's stopping us from getting people's Why 219 00:10:09,090 --> 00:10:10,770 are we so resistant to it? 220 00:10:12,020 --> 00:10:14,450 Nikita Vakhrushev: A lot of it is actually like the psychology behind 221 00:10:14,450 --> 00:10:15,960 the person that's running the business. 222 00:10:16,230 --> 00:10:18,170 And, like you said, it's very easy. 223 00:10:18,170 --> 00:10:22,200 The tools are there, but a lot of the founders that I talk to, 224 00:10:22,250 --> 00:10:25,790 it takes some convincing for them to be like, okay, cool. 225 00:10:25,790 --> 00:10:30,130 Let's try out SMS mainly because they feel like they're going to be bugging. 226 00:10:30,440 --> 00:10:33,600 They're going to They're going to be bugging their subscribers and they feel 227 00:10:33,600 --> 00:10:37,920 like they're going to be tarnishing the brand quality by adding in another channel 228 00:10:37,920 --> 00:10:39,450 to communicate with their customers. 229 00:10:39,790 --> 00:10:42,880 Now, granted, once they see the revenue numbers after sending out 230 00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:47,530 the first few campaigns, that whole, that goes out the window, disappears 231 00:10:47,750 --> 00:10:50,040 Matt Edmundson: overnight, I don't know what you're talking about. 232 00:10:51,480 --> 00:10:52,160 It's always funny, isn't it? 233 00:10:52,250 --> 00:10:54,570 The proof's in the pudding, but is that the genuine reason? 234 00:10:54,620 --> 00:10:57,170 I'm saying this not because I know the answer, but I'm genuinely curious. 235 00:10:57,915 --> 00:11:02,245 Are we not gathering people's phone numbers because it feels somehow a bit 236 00:11:02,255 --> 00:11:07,335 more personal, whereas email is, feels a bit less personal and we don't want to 237 00:11:07,345 --> 00:11:11,625 bug people and we feel like taking their phone number is maybe a step too far 238 00:11:11,625 --> 00:11:13,475 into sort of intruding in their privacy. 239 00:11:13,475 --> 00:11:14,135 Is that why? 240 00:11:14,925 --> 00:11:18,445 Nikita Vakhrushev: So far, that's been the biggest reason for if they don't 241 00:11:18,455 --> 00:11:22,765 have it set up already and we're trying to get them onto it it's like, the first 242 00:11:22,765 --> 00:11:24,045 thing is we don't want to be intrusive. 243 00:11:24,270 --> 00:11:25,580 We don't want to bug our customers. 244 00:11:25,580 --> 00:11:28,900 We feel like the cadence that we already have with email is already good enough 245 00:11:29,240 --> 00:11:32,460 because I'm sure they had the same exact conversation a few years ago 246 00:11:32,460 --> 00:11:35,310 with someone saying, Hey, you need to implement email into your business. 247 00:11:35,650 --> 00:11:39,900 They were maybe apprehensive to that before, but now they see it work and 248 00:11:39,900 --> 00:11:42,590 they see the revenue come in and they're like, okay, this is now a stable. 249 00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:43,860 of our business. 250 00:11:43,990 --> 00:11:46,250 And now it's Hey, we need to implement this new channel. 251 00:11:46,540 --> 00:11:48,540 And it's also something new that they have to do. 252 00:11:48,560 --> 00:11:50,790 They're not used to, it's not a routine. 253 00:11:51,260 --> 00:11:55,080 Bugging, routine, and it's another cost to their business. 254 00:11:55,110 --> 00:11:57,110 Simply, if they're trying to run a lean business, or if they're 255 00:11:57,110 --> 00:12:00,450 trying to reduce costs, that's just another added cost to their business 256 00:12:00,460 --> 00:12:01,390 that they have to take care of. 257 00:12:01,460 --> 00:12:03,470 Or another thing that they have to worry about fulfillment. 258 00:12:03,870 --> 00:12:06,900 All of those things stack up to, of hey, I don't think this 259 00:12:06,910 --> 00:12:08,110 is the right fit right now. 260 00:12:08,130 --> 00:12:11,610 This, there's a lot of moving pieces behind it, even though, with a team like 261 00:12:11,650 --> 00:12:16,170 us that can handle it for them, it's not really that much of a burden for them. 262 00:12:17,050 --> 00:12:19,170 Matt Edmundson: So if I get over my initial... 263 00:12:19,635 --> 00:12:21,465 Reluctance with SMS. 264 00:12:24,805 --> 00:12:28,695 When I gather people's phone numbers on the website, is there some kind 265 00:12:28,695 --> 00:12:30,615 of disclaimer I need to give them? 266 00:12:30,625 --> 00:12:31,735 Some kind of notification? 267 00:12:31,915 --> 00:12:35,995 Like with email, we we've got double opt ins now, we've got GDPR, we've got 268 00:12:35,995 --> 00:12:38,395 all kinds of regulations flowing around. 269 00:12:38,955 --> 00:12:42,095 So it seems to be that the double opt in is a pretty safe 270 00:12:42,125 --> 00:12:43,855 bet to get that sorted out. 271 00:12:44,115 --> 00:12:46,865 Is there something like that or an equivalent to that with SMS 272 00:12:46,885 --> 00:12:48,195 marketing that we need to think about? 273 00:12:49,225 --> 00:12:52,465 Nikita Vakhrushev: Yeah, pretty much every, it's a lot more strict on 274 00:12:52,475 --> 00:12:57,775 SMS marketing, so it's not as simple as email where it's okay, cool. 275 00:12:58,180 --> 00:13:00,940 They subscribe to the list, you send out an email for the double opt in for them 276 00:13:00,940 --> 00:13:03,000 to subscribe and then they join the list. 277 00:13:03,280 --> 00:13:06,710 With SMS, it's a little bit more tricky because you need actual 278 00:13:06,710 --> 00:13:11,550 consent and you need consent language on the actual SMS sign up form. 279 00:13:11,920 --> 00:13:15,860 And if you go through any of our clients like pop ups that they have 280 00:13:15,860 --> 00:13:18,430 on their website, if someone visits their website for I don't know, 10 281 00:13:18,430 --> 00:13:21,360 seconds or more, you have the pop up come up for the free shipping offer. 282 00:13:21,850 --> 00:13:24,460 On the SMS page, there's like a long paragraph. 283 00:13:25,125 --> 00:13:29,785 Right below the submit button to let them know of all the different 284 00:13:29,855 --> 00:13:31,315 SMS language that they consent. 285 00:13:31,325 --> 00:13:34,485 They consent to getting marketing materials from our phone number 286 00:13:34,715 --> 00:13:37,765 and all of that sort of like terms and service jargon. 287 00:13:38,585 --> 00:13:42,755 And after that, they do get an initial text to say Hey, we're confirming that 288 00:13:42,765 --> 00:13:44,264 you're subscribing to our SMS list. 289 00:13:44,525 --> 00:13:47,605 Please reply with Y or N if you want to subscribe or if 290 00:13:47,605 --> 00:13:48,505 you don't want to subscribe. 291 00:13:48,525 --> 00:13:51,965 So there is more friction added into SMS marketing. 292 00:13:52,545 --> 00:13:56,685 Typically, we try to overcome that friction with a very juicy offer of, 293 00:13:56,805 --> 00:14:02,415 maybe something more, um, more beneficial than an email offer like Instead of 10 294 00:14:02,415 --> 00:14:06,795 percent off, you get 20 percent off of text, if you sign up for text, so we, 295 00:14:06,805 --> 00:14:08,945 you do have to be more careful with SMS. 296 00:14:09,395 --> 00:14:09,755 Yeah. 297 00:14:10,205 --> 00:14:11,415 Matt Edmundson: No, fair enough. 298 00:14:11,485 --> 00:14:14,745 And it's one of those, so you've got this sort of the double opt in thing, 299 00:14:14,755 --> 00:14:16,045 haven't you then, with text messaging? 300 00:14:16,045 --> 00:14:19,365 You're you're saying to them, yes, you're signing up, please confirm yes or no. 301 00:14:19,855 --> 00:14:23,055 And do you do it in a sense that if they don't respond to that text 302 00:14:23,055 --> 00:14:24,285 message, you don't bug them again? 303 00:14:24,285 --> 00:14:26,685 You might send them another reminder saying, hey, just to remind you, 304 00:14:26,685 --> 00:14:27,955 you need to consent, yes or no. 305 00:14:28,810 --> 00:14:32,090 bUt you, or do you actually still send text messages even 306 00:14:32,090 --> 00:14:33,160 though they've not responded? 307 00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:35,820 Nikita Vakhrushev: We leave it at one follow up and that's it. 308 00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:39,590 If they haven't replied, then we simply can't do anything. 309 00:14:39,620 --> 00:14:44,020 And they're even marked with like we have like special markers in Klaviyo. 310 00:14:44,050 --> 00:14:46,820 So like whether they consented or didn't consent, and typically if they don't 311 00:14:46,880 --> 00:14:51,320 reply, they're just typically, they're stuck at not consent and we can't send 312 00:14:51,320 --> 00:14:52,790 anything out to them even if we tried. 313 00:14:53,230 --> 00:14:54,430 Matt Edmundson: Yeah, no, fair enough. 314 00:14:54,540 --> 00:14:54,920 Fair enough. 315 00:14:55,130 --> 00:14:55,830 Very wise. 316 00:14:56,310 --> 00:14:58,770 So yeah, there's a little bit more friction. 317 00:14:58,770 --> 00:15:02,420 So I'm imagining I don't, it's going to depend on the website in terms of the 318 00:15:02,420 --> 00:15:05,190 stats, but I'm imagining if you've got a hundred people coming to your website, 319 00:15:05,530 --> 00:15:09,690 10 of whom are prepared to give you their email address, what, two or three will 320 00:15:09,690 --> 00:15:11,210 give you their mobile number on average? 321 00:15:12,390 --> 00:15:14,970 Nikita Vakhrushev: That actually depends on the way that you structure the pop 322 00:15:14,970 --> 00:15:18,840 up and that's one of the things that we work on Within the agency is making sure 323 00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:23,090 that you get a higher conversion rate pop up And this is like mistake number 324 00:15:23,090 --> 00:15:27,200 two with SMS marketing is not only are you not capturing those phone numbers? 325 00:15:28,130 --> 00:15:33,115 The second mistake is you're not capturing them effectively A lot of brands, they 326 00:15:33,115 --> 00:15:35,845 have that pop up set up, it's usually a one and done solution for them, 327 00:15:35,845 --> 00:15:39,005 and they don't really worry about it because, it's just a pop up, it's nothing 328 00:15:39,725 --> 00:15:41,925 that's, quote unquote driving revenue. 329 00:15:42,445 --> 00:15:47,175 They have the name, phone number, email, and maybe like another 330 00:15:47,175 --> 00:15:50,805 question, and that's a lot of things for a customer to put in. 331 00:15:50,865 --> 00:15:53,745 We try to break that up into a three step pop up, so it's... 332 00:15:53,935 --> 00:15:55,435 It's really stupid simple. 333 00:15:55,435 --> 00:15:57,135 It's what's your email? 334 00:15:57,445 --> 00:16:00,075 And then once they submit that, what's your phone number? 335 00:16:00,125 --> 00:16:03,055 And then after that you get the coupon code or the success message. 336 00:16:03,455 --> 00:16:06,605 And we've seen that to work out significantly better to where it's 337 00:16:06,605 --> 00:16:10,245 not just like a significant like you mentioned, 10 people get the 338 00:16:10,245 --> 00:16:12,365 email two people sign up for SMS. 339 00:16:12,485 --> 00:16:14,015 It's actually more on like the. 340 00:16:14,460 --> 00:16:18,950 Seven to eight people sign up for SMS as well because of that two step. 341 00:16:19,320 --> 00:16:22,150 Because once people give you their email information, they've 342 00:16:22,150 --> 00:16:26,420 already given something to you, like on a psychological basis. 343 00:16:26,630 --> 00:16:28,590 So they're more likely to give you something again 344 00:16:28,980 --> 00:16:30,000 because they've already given. 345 00:16:30,610 --> 00:16:31,300 And that's how. 346 00:16:31,510 --> 00:16:33,110 We set up our pop ups for the most part. 347 00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:35,760 Matt Edmundson: I, and I've seen this a lot actually where they've 348 00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:38,490 started to break it down now when you start to fill in details, you don't 349 00:16:38,490 --> 00:16:41,190 actually know how many steps there are, but the first, the step that I'm 350 00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:42,700 looking at is pretty straightforward. 351 00:16:43,100 --> 00:16:46,480 So I give you my email address, I'm going to go to the next screen. 352 00:16:47,065 --> 00:16:50,785 And on the next screen, I'm going to give you my mobile number, but on that 353 00:16:50,785 --> 00:16:52,355 screen, I'm not getting any coupon codes. 354 00:16:52,355 --> 00:16:54,705 I have to give you my mobile number to get the coupon code. 355 00:16:55,295 --> 00:16:59,295 Or if I don't want to give you my mobile number, a coupon has been emailed 356 00:16:59,295 --> 00:16:59,735 Nikita Vakhrushev: to me. 357 00:17:00,905 --> 00:17:01,195 Yeah. 358 00:17:01,195 --> 00:17:05,945 So we break it up into do into, more steps here for getting granular. 359 00:17:06,195 --> 00:17:10,705 If they sign up with with SMS, then they get the coupon code through their phone. 360 00:17:11,275 --> 00:17:15,185 If they don't, then you can skip that step if you want to. 361 00:17:15,675 --> 00:17:21,325 And the coupon code is either emailed to them or it's at the thank you page. 362 00:17:21,345 --> 00:17:23,425 And it depends on a client by client basis. 363 00:17:23,825 --> 00:17:26,055 And this is something we test for as well, is... 364 00:17:27,105 --> 00:17:31,415 We split up like a 50, 50 percent on people that see the pop up at 365 00:17:31,465 --> 00:17:34,865 the end of the pop up or the coupon code at the end of the pop up, or 366 00:17:34,865 --> 00:17:36,325 they get the coupon at the email. 367 00:17:36,605 --> 00:17:40,885 And depending on what works on their specific brand, we go with that. 368 00:17:40,895 --> 00:17:41,195 Yeah. 369 00:17:41,830 --> 00:17:45,250 If we see more revenue come through the email, then we stick with email. 370 00:17:45,250 --> 00:17:47,430 If we see more revenue come from directly from the pop up, 371 00:17:47,430 --> 00:17:48,710 then we stick with the pop up. 372 00:17:48,950 --> 00:17:50,670 Matt Edmundson: Yeah, and very good testing. 373 00:17:51,390 --> 00:17:54,990 You've persuaded me to give you my phone number. 374 00:17:55,250 --> 00:17:58,700 Does this work better with specific countries? 375 00:17:58,700 --> 00:18:00,600 For example, I know in the States... 376 00:18:02,245 --> 00:18:06,535 Does it work better, for example, in, I call them the big five, the big, the sort 377 00:18:06,535 --> 00:18:11,725 of English speaking nations than say in continental Europe or in South America? 378 00:18:11,785 --> 00:18:14,775 Are there specific places where SMS works very well? 379 00:18:15,805 --> 00:18:16,295 Nikita Vakhrushev: America. 380 00:18:16,375 --> 00:18:20,175 I, without a doubt, because there's just, there's a lot more leniency. 381 00:18:20,175 --> 00:18:21,445 There's no GDPR here. 382 00:18:21,585 --> 00:18:22,965 And even with email. 383 00:18:23,300 --> 00:18:24,780 You can get away with single opt in. 384 00:18:24,810 --> 00:18:26,630 You don't have to do double opt in for email. 385 00:18:26,670 --> 00:18:31,020 So there's a lot more potency and a lot more, I'm sure time's going to run 386 00:18:31,020 --> 00:18:34,000 out and there's going to be a point where that's not going to be a thing. 387 00:18:34,020 --> 00:18:39,410 But while the iron's hot, we are striking with only using single opt in for email 388 00:18:39,680 --> 00:18:42,130 and we still do double opt in for SMS. 389 00:18:42,420 --> 00:18:45,700 But there's just a lot more freedom with communication and back and 390 00:18:45,700 --> 00:18:50,900 forth communication between the software and the customer with SMS. 391 00:18:50,940 --> 00:18:54,790 Because within some countries, Klaviyo doesn't, you can't use two 392 00:18:54,790 --> 00:18:58,630 way SMS because of, the infrastructure is just not set up there yet. 393 00:18:59,490 --> 00:18:59,830 Matt Edmundson: Yeah. 394 00:18:59,890 --> 00:19:00,700 No, that's fair enough. 395 00:19:01,090 --> 00:19:02,840 So you've got my phone number. 396 00:19:02,840 --> 00:19:03,800 I'm living in the States. 397 00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:04,550 You've got my number. 398 00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:05,990 What's your strategy? 399 00:19:05,990 --> 00:19:06,930 What's your thinking? 400 00:19:06,930 --> 00:19:09,630 Sort of headline strategies here as an econ business owner. 401 00:19:09,630 --> 00:19:11,160 What do I need to be thinking about? 402 00:19:11,170 --> 00:19:14,500 Because I think this is where a lot of people, email is pretty straightforward. 403 00:19:14,500 --> 00:19:17,114 I could, there's a whole bunch of stuff I can send you on email. 404 00:19:17,605 --> 00:19:20,965 From educational pieces to promotional pieces, you name it, you can do it. 405 00:19:21,595 --> 00:19:24,285 Text messages become a little bit more nuanced, don't they, 406 00:19:24,285 --> 00:19:25,255 a little bit more complex. 407 00:19:25,265 --> 00:19:29,375 So what sort of strategy on headlines should I be thinking about here? 408 00:19:30,505 --> 00:19:32,835 Nikita Vakhrushev: So the name of the game when it comes to SMS. 409 00:19:33,195 --> 00:19:35,885 Obviously with email, you can do a lot more storytelling. 410 00:19:35,895 --> 00:19:40,035 You can provide a lot more content and context about your business with SMS. 411 00:19:40,035 --> 00:19:43,565 It's a little bit tricky because, you only have a certain character limit if 412 00:19:43,565 --> 00:19:48,075 you want to keep it under one message and typically with SMS, we don't do 413 00:19:48,095 --> 00:19:51,355 that much storytelling and the main purpose of SMS is the followups. 414 00:19:52,515 --> 00:19:55,585 So for example, if someone abandoned checkout or abandoned cart and we 415 00:19:55,585 --> 00:19:59,765 have their information, SMS is like the best way to recover that cart. 416 00:20:00,145 --> 00:20:05,285 Because it's a very personal way to contact them, it's if you want to service 417 00:20:05,285 --> 00:20:09,135 your car, and you got an email saying your car is ready, you may not check 418 00:20:09,135 --> 00:20:11,705 that for the next three hours, but if you get a text saying hey, your car is 419 00:20:11,705 --> 00:20:15,245 ready, you're probably already getting a taxi to go there, as you get there. 420 00:20:15,585 --> 00:20:15,915 Matt Edmundson: Yeah. 421 00:20:16,665 --> 00:20:20,775 So yeah, so it's that sort of follow up strategy. 422 00:20:20,775 --> 00:20:22,525 So it works with abandoned carts. 423 00:20:22,945 --> 00:20:25,895 The I've seen it where the ones I tend to get, and I'm not signed 424 00:20:25,895 --> 00:20:28,985 up to many, it's just more of an experiment really, Nikki Driftwood. 425 00:20:29,775 --> 00:20:31,985 The ones I tend to get abandoned carts. 426 00:20:32,350 --> 00:20:35,710 So the special one off sort of discounts, I don't get regular 427 00:20:36,150 --> 00:20:38,260 sort of text messages about offers. 428 00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:43,330 I get text messages like your order is shipped your order's on its way. 429 00:20:44,250 --> 00:20:48,000 Those kind of more, I call them transactional emails, those sort 430 00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:49,220 of transactional type things. 431 00:20:49,220 --> 00:20:52,580 Is that what we're predominantly using it for then, SMS? 432 00:20:53,410 --> 00:20:54,280 Nikita Vakhrushev: Not really. 433 00:20:54,280 --> 00:20:57,520 If anything, we do 20 percent transactional emails, like you 434 00:20:57,520 --> 00:21:01,320 mentioned, the order shipped emails or order confirmation maybe even 435 00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:08,780 throwing in a order review SMS, but yeah, but a lot of it is used to 436 00:21:08,810 --> 00:21:10,560 not only follow up with customers. 437 00:21:10,620 --> 00:21:13,250 For example, in the welcome flow strategy that we utilize. 438 00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:19,000 With our clients, we use SMS as a follow up on a promotion that we sent over. 439 00:21:19,410 --> 00:21:22,760 Like I mentioned, abandoned checkout making sure that we follow up on that. 440 00:21:23,210 --> 00:21:28,280 And lastly, a lot of promotional items on just like campaigns. 441 00:21:28,780 --> 00:21:33,300 We don't really do a lot of play and actually we do, there's a thing we're 442 00:21:33,300 --> 00:21:37,410 testing right now with a few clients where we do a conversational SMS. 443 00:21:37,570 --> 00:21:40,960 And this is a little bit based on AI info and can't really 444 00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:42,390 spill too much beans about that. 445 00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:47,820 But basically if let's say we send out an SMS message for a haircare 446 00:21:47,820 --> 00:21:50,660 brand and we ask them like, Hey, how do you take care of your hair? 447 00:21:50,670 --> 00:21:51,830 What's your haircare routine? 448 00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:55,750 And based off of their reply, we send them a product recommendation or. 449 00:21:56,465 --> 00:21:59,695 Any information about any product that we've launched on, through the 450 00:21:59,695 --> 00:22:00,065 Matt Edmundson: brand. 451 00:22:00,335 --> 00:22:00,695 Yeah. 452 00:22:01,015 --> 00:22:04,715 It's the kind of, this is where where AI gets quite interesting, isn't it? 453 00:22:04,715 --> 00:22:08,765 Because you can start to now be more conversational in tone, um, 454 00:22:09,555 --> 00:22:12,985 almost there is a difference I think between text messages on 455 00:22:12,985 --> 00:22:14,825 my phone and WhatsApp messages. 456 00:22:15,135 --> 00:22:16,925 There's, I can't explain it. 457 00:22:16,945 --> 00:22:19,675 I'm sure somebody's done some research on this somewhere, but what I write 458 00:22:19,675 --> 00:22:23,535 in WhatsApp messages tends to be a bit more conversational, a bit friendlier. 459 00:22:23,535 --> 00:22:24,805 There tend to be more people that I know. 460 00:22:25,745 --> 00:22:29,215 aNd they tend to be longer, more involved because obviously, you've 461 00:22:29,215 --> 00:22:30,565 got more space, et cetera, et cetera. 462 00:22:31,095 --> 00:22:36,085 And so I can see them now starting to become more. 463 00:22:39,825 --> 00:22:42,125 I'm just trying to think about how this then works with 464 00:22:42,125 --> 00:22:43,495 your email and your offers. 465 00:22:43,865 --> 00:22:45,145 You're using this word follow up. 466 00:22:45,165 --> 00:22:49,235 So in my head, what I'm saying, Nikita, and please explain how it would work, but 467 00:22:49,535 --> 00:22:51,785 I'm going to email out 10, 000 people. 468 00:22:52,250 --> 00:22:55,670 Our latest offer whatever that is to a targeted list. 469 00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:56,590 I'm going to email them. 470 00:22:56,590 --> 00:22:57,480 Those that didn't open it. 471 00:22:57,480 --> 00:22:59,830 I'm going to email them maybe a day or so later. 472 00:23:00,370 --> 00:23:05,010 Those of those that didn't open it, say the second time I sent it, I'm then 473 00:23:05,010 --> 00:23:08,370 sending them say a text message saying, Hey, check out, don't forget to check 474 00:23:08,370 --> 00:23:11,330 your email or whatever we've sent you this hate for you to miss it kind of thing. 475 00:23:11,710 --> 00:23:14,490 Is that how we're doing it with the sort of the follow ups on the offers 476 00:23:14,500 --> 00:23:16,090 or are you just going straight for. 477 00:23:16,580 --> 00:23:18,680 Hey guys, 10, 000 text messages. 478 00:23:18,690 --> 00:23:18,960 Here's the 479 00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:19,590 Nikita Vakhrushev: latest offer. 480 00:23:20,290 --> 00:23:25,420 So we actually do send out the email and SMS in tandem together with whatever 481 00:23:25,420 --> 00:23:29,020 offer we're running, especially if it's, like one out of the four big 482 00:23:29,020 --> 00:23:31,720 sales that we run for a client per year. 483 00:23:31,730 --> 00:23:36,600 So we make sure to use SMS in tandem and the followups mainly come from action 484 00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:39,830 based or intent based like abandoned checkout, abandoned cart, et cetera. 485 00:23:41,365 --> 00:23:41,705 Matt Edmundson: Okay. 486 00:23:41,995 --> 00:23:42,245 Okay. 487 00:23:42,365 --> 00:23:43,355 But you send them out at the same time. 488 00:23:43,355 --> 00:23:43,975 It's really interesting. 489 00:23:44,265 --> 00:23:45,385 I'm really intrigued by this. 490 00:23:45,435 --> 00:23:50,995 We do use SMS messaging here and SMS marketing in my own econ businesses. 491 00:23:53,025 --> 00:23:58,055 It is still, it feels still to me, Nikita, a relatively new thing. 492 00:23:58,355 --> 00:24:00,665 Do you know what I mean, I don't feel as established with that as 493 00:24:00,665 --> 00:24:01,955 I am say with email marketing. 494 00:24:02,515 --> 00:24:04,315 It still feels like a relatively new thing. 495 00:24:04,315 --> 00:24:07,665 We were having conversations about it earlier on with the team and I'm just 496 00:24:07,665 --> 00:24:12,035 going backwards and forwards on it a little bit and I'm intrigued by it. 497 00:24:12,575 --> 00:24:13,825 How do you... 498 00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:18,250 Earlier on you talked about how, one of the things that we're not doing is 499 00:24:18,250 --> 00:24:22,530 taking advantage of getting people's phone numbers because of various things 500 00:24:22,530 --> 00:24:24,690 in their head about not wanting to bother people and so on and so forth. 501 00:24:24,990 --> 00:24:28,890 But customers quickly get over that when they see the revenue that it brings in. 502 00:24:29,190 --> 00:24:31,740 So where do you notice the revenue coming in? 503 00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:35,590 What's working well to bring in the cha-ching. 504 00:24:37,010 --> 00:24:39,800 Nikita Vakhrushev: Are you talking about like specific SMS structure or? 505 00:24:41,725 --> 00:24:44,345 Matt Edmundson: Yeah, just in terms of if someone sat out, someone sat 506 00:24:44,345 --> 00:24:47,895 outside, someone's sat there listening to the podcast, listening to us 507 00:24:47,905 --> 00:24:50,495 talking there and they're thinking where's the money going to come from? 508 00:24:50,495 --> 00:24:52,655 What types of things bring in the cash? 509 00:24:52,995 --> 00:24:54,185 What's going to work well? 510 00:24:55,355 --> 00:24:57,955 Nikita Vakhrushev: So I hate to answer it, but with it, it 511 00:24:57,955 --> 00:25:01,115 depends because depend now, okay. 512 00:25:01,165 --> 00:25:01,555 I will. 513 00:25:02,445 --> 00:25:04,815 I'm digging the hole, but I will get myself out of this hole. 514 00:25:04,865 --> 00:25:05,600 Okay, cool. 515 00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:10,155 So it does depend, but it depends on your average order value and the 516 00:25:10,165 --> 00:25:11,415 types of products that you sell. 517 00:25:11,625 --> 00:25:11,835 Okay. 518 00:25:12,005 --> 00:25:17,105 So what we've noticed with SMS marketing, that brands that have 519 00:25:17,105 --> 00:25:22,305 an average order value above 100 to 200, the conversion rate with 520 00:25:22,345 --> 00:25:27,685 SMS doesn't necessarily correlate well compared to email marketing. 521 00:25:28,015 --> 00:25:30,205 It's more it's better used within. 522 00:25:30,525 --> 00:25:35,005 Like I mentioned, follow ups, as well as big promotional times. 523 00:25:35,195 --> 00:25:38,495 But if you're trying to do a flash sale, it doesn't really work that well. 524 00:25:38,975 --> 00:25:44,305 Now, under that, SMS works tremendously well for some of our clients, especially 525 00:25:44,315 --> 00:25:50,225 during like flash sales, or maybe like overstock based SMS messages. 526 00:25:50,225 --> 00:25:52,625 Hey, we ordered, extra inventory. 527 00:25:52,625 --> 00:25:54,525 We need to get rid of it by the end of the week. 528 00:25:56,025 --> 00:26:01,545 tHose work really well because AOV under a hundred to 150 to 200, 529 00:26:01,865 --> 00:26:03,755 it's a very impulse based purchase. 530 00:26:03,945 --> 00:26:09,225 So then it works very well of Oh, I got a text of my, I don't know, like my a 531 00:26:09,225 --> 00:26:11,735 company that sells water bottles that I've been following for the last year. 532 00:26:11,735 --> 00:26:14,705 And I bought three water bottles from them and they're selling the 533 00:26:14,705 --> 00:26:16,765 same water bottle for 20 bucks off. 534 00:26:16,765 --> 00:26:20,975 Like I'm going to get that because it's a very easy and digestible purchase. 535 00:26:21,275 --> 00:26:22,875 When you look at the average family. 536 00:26:23,300 --> 00:26:26,840 When it, when you're trying to buy something over 150 to $200, 537 00:26:26,900 --> 00:26:28,850 that's something you have to consult with your wife or husband. 538 00:26:29,300 --> 00:26:29,510 Yeah. 539 00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:32,680 . So you can't just spend out 200 bucks willy-nilly. 540 00:26:32,990 --> 00:26:36,990 So that's a talk that you have to have and that just adds a lot more friction. 541 00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:40,190 . And one thing that I did notice with SMS marketing. 542 00:26:41,445 --> 00:26:45,865 It costs a little bit more to do this, but sending out an image with your 543 00:26:45,875 --> 00:26:50,845 text message, like an MMS with an SMS tends to perform significantly better. 544 00:26:51,135 --> 00:26:52,415 It has lower click through. 545 00:26:52,585 --> 00:26:54,995 It has lower click through rate, but it has double the revenue 546 00:26:54,995 --> 00:26:56,145 on average than comparative. 547 00:26:56,740 --> 00:26:58,630 To just sending out a text message. 548 00:26:59,300 --> 00:27:00,000 Matt Edmundson: That's interesting. 549 00:27:00,070 --> 00:27:01,590 And what are you sending a picture of? 550 00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:07,730 Nikita Vakhrushev: So there's actually a lot of things and there's, it's 551 00:27:07,770 --> 00:27:09,520 broken down into four main things. 552 00:27:10,180 --> 00:27:13,200 You have to have the branding of your, like the business. 553 00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:17,500 So let's say one of the businesses that you run has blue and white branding. 554 00:27:17,550 --> 00:27:19,870 You have to have that in there because it immediately. 555 00:27:20,325 --> 00:27:21,615 Helps the customer recognize. 556 00:27:22,145 --> 00:27:25,835 What brand is actually sending them that SMS message? 557 00:27:26,195 --> 00:27:30,445 You see a block of text, it's just a block of text and then you take a second 558 00:27:30,445 --> 00:27:31,865 to be like, Oh, it's from this brand. 559 00:27:32,115 --> 00:27:32,325 Yeah. 560 00:27:32,335 --> 00:27:36,125 But with images, it's easy to recognize some sort of product model 561 00:27:36,225 --> 00:27:40,435 or lifestyle image within there is also very important because then it's 562 00:27:40,435 --> 00:27:44,175 another context clue that you can immediately identify what brand it is. 563 00:27:44,855 --> 00:27:47,995 You have to have a reason of why you're texting them and this isn't 564 00:27:48,025 --> 00:27:49,355 compliance, but it's more so just. 565 00:27:49,775 --> 00:27:51,135 To make it a bit more personal. 566 00:27:51,135 --> 00:27:53,915 It's Hey, if someone reaches out to you, they usually have a reason 567 00:27:53,915 --> 00:27:54,835 why they're reaching out to you. 568 00:27:55,305 --> 00:27:56,245 Same thing with here. 569 00:27:56,575 --> 00:27:59,085 It's Hey, we're having a flash sale, or Hey, we're having an overstock 570 00:27:59,085 --> 00:28:01,575 sale, or Hey, we're running a giveaway. 571 00:28:02,025 --> 00:28:04,165 There's a reason for us to reach out to them. 572 00:28:04,715 --> 00:28:08,215 And you have to have the offer center and clear to read. 573 00:28:08,565 --> 00:28:11,075 So don't just send them a photo of your products. 574 00:28:11,355 --> 00:28:13,935 Send a photo of your products with an overlay text of saying 575 00:28:13,935 --> 00:28:14,985 Hey, we're having a BOGO. 576 00:28:16,420 --> 00:28:19,980 We're having an overstock sale right now have the coupon code within the image. 577 00:28:20,210 --> 00:28:24,310 And then once you send out that image, you can get into the nitty gritty within the 578 00:28:24,310 --> 00:28:28,220 actual SMS message where you can mention their first name to personalize it. 579 00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:32,670 More details about the offer or any specific terms of the offer and the 580 00:28:32,670 --> 00:28:36,340 call to action, which is the link to participate in the offer or the 581 00:28:36,340 --> 00:28:37,830 giveaway or whatever you're sending out. 582 00:28:39,390 --> 00:28:39,990 Matt Edmundson: Really great. 583 00:28:40,060 --> 00:28:40,690 It's really great. 584 00:28:40,770 --> 00:28:42,190 It's a simple strategy as well. 585 00:28:42,210 --> 00:28:42,410 Cause it's. 586 00:28:43,270 --> 00:28:45,540 Throw in an image in their text messages, because everyone's 587 00:28:45,540 --> 00:28:46,640 got smartphones, haven't they? 588 00:28:46,690 --> 00:28:48,540 It's just, it is what it is. 589 00:28:48,540 --> 00:28:50,430 It's going to come up well on their phones. 590 00:28:50,860 --> 00:28:51,170 Yes. 591 00:28:52,050 --> 00:28:56,220 One of the questions I get asked a lot Nikita, while we're talking about SMS 592 00:28:56,220 --> 00:28:57,950 messaging, let's talk about WhatsApp. 593 00:28:58,310 --> 00:29:03,070 Can you do this type of thing with WhatsApp or is it just native? 594 00:29:03,985 --> 00:29:08,475 tExt messages using whatever text message platform it is, but it's separate 595 00:29:08,475 --> 00:29:08,985 Nikita Vakhrushev: from WhatsApp. 596 00:29:08,985 --> 00:29:10,635 Now, here's the thing. 597 00:29:10,645 --> 00:29:13,655 We don't do WhatsApp marketing, so I cannot answer that 598 00:29:13,655 --> 00:29:16,765 question, unfortunately, yeah. 599 00:29:17,035 --> 00:29:17,385 And 600 00:29:17,415 --> 00:29:18,985 Matt Edmundson: is the reason you don't do it because it's... 601 00:29:19,945 --> 00:29:22,575 I know the answer to this question a little bit, but it's not actually as 602 00:29:22,585 --> 00:29:24,115 straightforward as we'd like it to be. 603 00:29:24,595 --> 00:29:28,755 It has always felt like a little bit too complex WhatsApp marketing. 604 00:29:28,765 --> 00:29:30,195 Is that why you've avoided it? 605 00:29:30,975 --> 00:29:32,185 Nikita Vakhrushev: So that's a good question. 606 00:29:32,185 --> 00:29:33,325 It's a mix of both. 607 00:29:33,385 --> 00:29:34,465 Number one, it's complex. 608 00:29:35,015 --> 00:29:36,595 There's a lot more complexity to it. 609 00:29:37,135 --> 00:29:39,605 And number two, it's not that popular in the U. 610 00:29:39,605 --> 00:29:39,935 S. 611 00:29:39,975 --> 00:29:43,165 or it's not as popular as it is internationally. 612 00:29:43,815 --> 00:29:47,725 Everyone that I talk to, everyone in my circle of friends and family, the 613 00:29:47,725 --> 00:29:51,995 only reason that they use WhatsApp is to talk to someone internationally. 614 00:29:52,525 --> 00:29:57,285 It's not as a, I could be wrong here and I could be like the outlier here, 615 00:29:57,285 --> 00:30:00,605 but that's the only reason I talk to or that's the only reason I use 616 00:30:00,605 --> 00:30:04,375 WhatsApp is to talk to friends and family internationally rather than 617 00:30:05,235 --> 00:30:09,275 texting my mom or texting my girlfriend because I just use the native text app. 618 00:30:09,415 --> 00:30:10,675 So in the U. 619 00:30:10,675 --> 00:30:11,075 S. 620 00:30:11,185 --> 00:30:14,905 I don't, it is a little bit of a personal bias that I didn't see the 621 00:30:14,905 --> 00:30:19,225 point in adding that service in because I just didn't see a need for it. 622 00:30:19,225 --> 00:30:22,195 And most, like I say, 90 percent of our clients are U. 623 00:30:22,195 --> 00:30:22,375 S. 624 00:30:22,375 --> 00:30:23,045 based with U. 625 00:30:23,045 --> 00:30:23,155 S. 626 00:30:23,185 --> 00:30:23,805 customers. 627 00:30:24,615 --> 00:30:24,835 Yeah, 628 00:30:24,865 --> 00:30:25,505 Matt Edmundson: no, fair enough. 629 00:30:25,975 --> 00:30:27,325 It's really intriguing because here in the U. 630 00:30:27,325 --> 00:30:27,575 K. 631 00:30:27,575 --> 00:30:28,405 I think it's different. 632 00:30:29,445 --> 00:30:34,125 I'd probably say, I don't know, maybe 80% of the messages I get from people 633 00:30:34,125 --> 00:30:35,145 that I know are through WhatsApp. 634 00:30:35,915 --> 00:30:39,805 And it's the native, like I, there's a big thing going on in the UK at 635 00:30:39,805 --> 00:30:42,685 the moment, whether Apple's gonna close down iMessage because, the 636 00:30:42,690 --> 00:30:44,425 UK has got some very quirky laws. 637 00:30:44,455 --> 00:30:47,715 'cause, why would we not we're English, and I think Apple have gone, yeah we're 638 00:30:47,715 --> 00:30:49,285 just going to switch that whole thing off. 639 00:30:49,385 --> 00:30:52,935 And so whether they do or not, it's a different story, but but everyone's 640 00:30:52,935 --> 00:30:55,825 going we don't care because then we all use WhatsApp, and so Apple 641 00:30:55,825 --> 00:30:57,515 are going to do what Apple's going to do, but we're on WhatsApp. 642 00:30:57,515 --> 00:30:57,855 We're fine. 643 00:30:57,865 --> 00:30:58,585 It's not a problem. 644 00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:03,110 So I'm intrigued because it feels like Facebook haven't 645 00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:05,830 really monetized WhatsApp yet. 646 00:31:06,410 --> 00:31:09,260 I shouldn't call it Facebook Meta, maybe in a way, which I've 647 00:31:09,260 --> 00:31:12,400 looked at and gone that's clever or that's intriguing where you can 648 00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:14,000 see how they've monetized Facebook. 649 00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:16,450 You can see how they've monetized Instagram. 650 00:31:16,860 --> 00:31:20,430 But it always struck me that WhatsApp was complicated, more 651 00:31:20,430 --> 00:31:21,700 complicated than it needed to be. 652 00:31:21,700 --> 00:31:24,610 And I, I don't know how long, much longer that will last for. 653 00:31:25,260 --> 00:31:25,270 I 654 00:31:25,890 --> 00:31:28,510 Nikita Vakhrushev: think it's mainly there for data collection, if anything, 655 00:31:28,550 --> 00:31:31,430 even though they say it's private and secure and you have that little 656 00:31:31,430 --> 00:31:37,700 lock icon, I still the tinfoil hat in me person still thinks that it 657 00:31:37,700 --> 00:31:39,080 still uses it for data collection. 658 00:31:39,100 --> 00:31:41,740 Cause I remember there's so many times where like I'd send a voice note. 659 00:31:42,215 --> 00:31:46,125 Or mention something specifically about a specific product, and then the next 660 00:31:46,125 --> 00:31:47,995 day I see like an Instagram ad for it. 661 00:31:48,245 --> 00:31:48,605 Yeah. 662 00:31:48,685 --> 00:31:52,565 I'm a little skeptical on them not directly monetizing it, but indirectly 663 00:31:52,565 --> 00:31:54,105 they're definitely monetizing that data. 664 00:31:54,385 --> 00:31:54,855 Yeah, 665 00:31:55,355 --> 00:31:56,875 Matt Edmundson: you wouldn't be surprised, would you? 666 00:31:57,190 --> 00:32:01,060 If they were actually reading and picking out keywords but what do I know? 667 00:32:01,270 --> 00:32:01,880 What do I know? 668 00:32:02,370 --> 00:32:04,750 So we've talked a fair bit about SMS there. 669 00:32:04,750 --> 00:32:09,590 Let's go, let's talk about email Nikita because Nikita email is still one of 670 00:32:09,590 --> 00:32:14,170 those things where we do talk about it on occasion on the show because I feel the 671 00:32:14,170 --> 00:32:18,510 need to come back to it because I talk to clients and I'm just going why are we not 672 00:32:18,510 --> 00:32:19,790 doing email better than what we're doing? 673 00:32:19,830 --> 00:32:21,490 And it still strikes me as. 674 00:32:22,255 --> 00:32:25,985 This is still happening and it surprises me every time if I'm honest with you. 675 00:32:27,790 --> 00:32:30,370 Nikita Vakhrushev: The biggest surprise for me is that any time I 676 00:32:30,370 --> 00:32:33,050 talk to or anyone knew I meet and they're like, Hey, what do you do? 677 00:32:33,100 --> 00:32:35,490 And it's Oh, I a marketing agency. 678 00:32:35,490 --> 00:32:36,290 They're like, Oh, what do you do? 679 00:32:36,310 --> 00:32:37,520 It's I run an email marketing. 680 00:32:37,530 --> 00:32:38,460 They're like, that still works. 681 00:32:39,260 --> 00:32:39,580 I'm like 682 00:32:42,900 --> 00:32:43,510 What do you mean? 683 00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:46,980 We generated this client, like 200 grand this year, with email. 684 00:32:47,340 --> 00:32:50,920 So it, there's still like that stigma of like, why like people 685 00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:51,990 actually respond to those emails. 686 00:32:51,990 --> 00:32:53,760 It's if you do a good job, yes, they do. 687 00:32:53,780 --> 00:32:54,980 They actually buy from you. 688 00:32:55,420 --> 00:33:00,250 So there is still a lot of juice left for us to squeeze in email marketing. 689 00:33:00,250 --> 00:33:03,870 And we don't see any decline whatsoever within our industry. 690 00:33:04,420 --> 00:33:06,550 It just comes down to the strategy and the way that you 691 00:33:06,550 --> 00:33:09,820 communicate with your customers or subscribers, if you treat them with. 692 00:33:10,215 --> 00:33:12,765 Bombarding them with sale, you're not going to have a good time. 693 00:33:12,805 --> 00:33:15,675 You're just going to turn through those customers and, people are only 694 00:33:15,675 --> 00:33:16,985 going to see you as a discount brand. 695 00:33:17,055 --> 00:33:22,145 But if you actually have storytelling and visual branding behind your emails, 696 00:33:22,145 --> 00:33:24,845 then people are actually going to be receptive to it and see you as a 697 00:33:24,845 --> 00:33:26,555 legitimate player in the e com game. 698 00:33:26,825 --> 00:33:27,305 Matt Edmundson: Yeah. 699 00:33:27,915 --> 00:33:28,175 Yeah. 700 00:33:28,615 --> 00:33:29,875 That's very wise words. 701 00:33:30,205 --> 00:33:35,105 We tend to find if with clients, if they're not achieving 30 702 00:33:35,105 --> 00:33:38,575 to 40 percent of their revenue from email, something's wrong. 703 00:33:39,090 --> 00:33:40,570 And actually you can improve that. 704 00:33:40,810 --> 00:33:44,390 I don't know if that's, that's based off some, probably some 705 00:33:44,390 --> 00:33:46,290 prehistoric thinking on my own part. 706 00:33:46,340 --> 00:33:50,020 Nicky is with you, but I don't know whether that's still the case, whether 707 00:33:50,020 --> 00:33:53,830 we should be thinking sort of 30, 40 percent of revenue from email marketing. 708 00:33:54,750 --> 00:33:55,390 Nikita Vakhrushev: We do. 709 00:33:55,780 --> 00:34:00,130 Like we say 30 to 40 percent in retention marketing because we include SMS in that, 710 00:34:00,590 --> 00:34:04,620 but if you're going solely off email, it's anywhere between 25 to 35 percent 711 00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:06,700 depending on the brand, of course. 712 00:34:07,270 --> 00:34:07,610 Matt Edmundson: Sure. 713 00:34:07,700 --> 00:34:10,100 And so SMS is going to add another sort of 5, 10 percent 714 00:34:10,110 --> 00:34:11,200 to the bottom line, isn't it? 715 00:34:11,720 --> 00:34:12,700 Yeah, exactly. 716 00:34:13,130 --> 00:34:13,470 Okay. 717 00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:15,800 Which is another reason why you should be thinking about SMS. 718 00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:18,610 Just take your turn up, divide it by 10, there's what it could potentially add 719 00:34:18,610 --> 00:34:20,290 to your bottom line if you get it right. 720 00:34:21,140 --> 00:34:22,300 Which is always a nice thing. 721 00:34:23,535 --> 00:34:25,835 And there aren't that many ways where you can quickly and easily grow your 722 00:34:25,835 --> 00:34:27,555 business by 10 percent are there really? 723 00:34:27,655 --> 00:34:33,245 But yeah it's interesting that it's still around the 30, 40 percent bracket. 724 00:34:33,255 --> 00:34:35,745 That's always been a good test, always a good markers, like how 725 00:34:35,745 --> 00:34:37,045 much of our revenue is coming. 726 00:34:37,605 --> 00:34:42,975 And conversely, if you've got good email marketing, you've got good customer, uh, 727 00:34:43,505 --> 00:34:45,075 repurchasing rates, haven't you, on the 728 00:34:45,075 --> 00:34:45,345 Nikita Vakhrushev: whole? 729 00:34:46,295 --> 00:34:50,625 Not only customer repurchase rate, but also customer conversion, because, a lot 730 00:34:50,625 --> 00:34:55,875 of people come in from meta or YouTube or Google, and maybe they were just browsing 731 00:34:55,875 --> 00:34:59,045 and they wanted to check something out, but maybe an email two weeks 732 00:34:59,045 --> 00:35:00,695 down the line is what converted them. 733 00:35:00,725 --> 00:35:03,615 And, that's where that last click purchase came from rather than. 734 00:35:04,185 --> 00:35:06,015 From Facebook or Google. 735 00:35:06,335 --> 00:35:10,575 So if anything, it's a good tactic to not only retain the current 736 00:35:10,575 --> 00:35:11,645 customers that you have and. 737 00:35:12,325 --> 00:35:16,085 Re send to those people to re purchase, but also it's a great mechanism for people 738 00:35:16,085 --> 00:35:19,325 that are just brand new coming in to learn more about your business, learn more 739 00:35:19,325 --> 00:35:23,905 about the brand and the values, to then eventually become a customer and purchase. 740 00:35:24,145 --> 00:35:24,615 Yeah. 741 00:35:24,805 --> 00:35:25,375 Matt Edmundson: No, it's true. 742 00:35:25,625 --> 00:35:28,025 I always ask clients whenever I see them. 743 00:35:28,255 --> 00:35:29,695 I may have mentioned this on the show before. 744 00:35:30,115 --> 00:35:33,045 I always ask clients when I sit down with them, what's the 745 00:35:33,045 --> 00:35:34,755 primary purpose of your website? 746 00:35:34,795 --> 00:35:37,005 It feels a bit like a trick question, right? 747 00:35:37,505 --> 00:35:38,495 I'm an e commerce site. 748 00:35:38,495 --> 00:35:40,575 The primary reason I exist is to sell products. 749 00:35:40,755 --> 00:35:41,285 Okay. 750 00:35:41,965 --> 00:35:43,185 What's the secondary one? 751 00:35:43,550 --> 00:35:46,770 What's the second thing that you'll, what's the second thing you want to, 752 00:35:46,770 --> 00:35:50,070 if someone's coming to your website and they haven't bought your product, 753 00:35:50,290 --> 00:35:52,510 what one thing do you want them to do? 754 00:35:52,580 --> 00:35:53,920 What's the second purpose? 755 00:35:54,270 --> 00:35:56,760 And for me, that's always been, I want them to give me 756 00:35:56,760 --> 00:35:58,130 their email address, right? 757 00:35:58,140 --> 00:36:01,850 It's just because I know that if I've got their email address, 758 00:36:01,850 --> 00:36:03,660 there's a lot I can do with that. 759 00:36:04,690 --> 00:36:06,960 I should probably now add the third, which is to get their mobile 760 00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:08,190 number based on this conversation. 761 00:36:09,340 --> 00:36:11,030 But we're getting their email address. 762 00:36:11,620 --> 00:36:16,670 Do you still see the what I would call the educational flow? 763 00:36:16,710 --> 00:36:18,110 So you get people coming to your website. 764 00:36:18,110 --> 00:36:19,720 They're not necessarily ready to buy. 765 00:36:20,060 --> 00:36:21,420 So we give them a good reason. 766 00:36:21,715 --> 00:36:23,365 for to get their email address. 767 00:36:23,375 --> 00:36:24,845 Sometimes that might be a discount. 768 00:36:25,215 --> 00:36:29,355 I often cite a plant site that I went to a house plant website, which I 769 00:36:29,355 --> 00:36:30,485 wish I could remember the name of. 770 00:36:30,965 --> 00:36:33,925 But there was this email sequence that I signed up for cause I thought it was 771 00:36:33,925 --> 00:36:35,535 rather creative and clever, which was. 772 00:36:35,965 --> 00:36:39,735 Give us your email address and we'll send you emails basically at 10 773 00:36:39,755 --> 00:36:43,785 proven steps on how not to kill your houseplants which made me laugh because 774 00:36:43,785 --> 00:36:44,935 I always kill the bloody things. 775 00:36:45,405 --> 00:36:47,415 I'm like, I need this, right? 776 00:36:47,425 --> 00:36:48,445 So it was educational. 777 00:36:48,445 --> 00:36:51,545 So by the time I got to the end of that sequence, not only did I feel 778 00:36:51,555 --> 00:36:54,470 confident that I wasn't going to kill the houseplant, but I, They've 779 00:36:54,500 --> 00:36:57,110 given me enough information to know what type of plants I should buy 780 00:36:57,120 --> 00:36:58,630 for the kind of room that I had. 781 00:37:00,590 --> 00:37:04,480 I don't know if I see that as much these days the whole educational 782 00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:06,280 aspect of email marketing. 783 00:37:06,890 --> 00:37:09,380 And is there a good reason for that or is that something that 784 00:37:09,380 --> 00:37:10,800 actually we do need to be thinking 785 00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:11,090 Nikita Vakhrushev: about? 786 00:37:12,050 --> 00:37:14,810 I think it's like the most important thing of email marketing. 787 00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:18,140 You have someone that comes off Facebook and comes off Google. 788 00:37:18,195 --> 00:37:21,405 And they don't know anything about your business. 789 00:37:21,405 --> 00:37:25,135 They just saw an ad that, hooked them in, especially if you're an e commerce, 790 00:37:25,155 --> 00:37:28,075 if you're not like Nike, there's a lot of brand presence and a lot of top of 791 00:37:28,075 --> 00:37:32,275 funnel marketing that they did, but if you're an up and coming e commerce brand, 792 00:37:32,275 --> 00:37:35,455 or you're just starting to hit that stride of 50 to a hundred K per month. 793 00:37:35,985 --> 00:37:40,145 Revenue still in the grand scheme of things, you're a very small brand 794 00:37:40,155 --> 00:37:44,125 and you still have a huge adjustable market to hit with your business. 795 00:37:45,025 --> 00:37:48,185 A lot of people don't know who you are or they just saw your ad. 796 00:37:48,395 --> 00:37:53,285 So what is the best way to educate them without spending 30, 000 on Facebook 797 00:37:53,365 --> 00:37:57,915 every month, unless you have to do that, but an additional 30, 000 to educate 798 00:37:57,915 --> 00:38:01,525 those customers and actually own that data it's through email marketing. 799 00:38:01,925 --> 00:38:05,165 So that's something that we implement internally with all of our clients 800 00:38:05,165 --> 00:38:09,425 is when within that welcome flow, obviously, if they signed up for a coupon 801 00:38:09,445 --> 00:38:10,805 code, we send them that coupon code. 802 00:38:11,075 --> 00:38:15,125 But the subsequent emails that they get, for example, with a men's 803 00:38:15,125 --> 00:38:18,325 hair care brand that we're working with right now, we're teaching them 804 00:38:18,345 --> 00:38:20,365 how to properly style their hair. 805 00:38:20,805 --> 00:38:24,295 And, if they're interested, they can use our products to make it easier for them 806 00:38:24,295 --> 00:38:26,545 to style their hair in specific ways. 807 00:38:26,825 --> 00:38:30,205 So that sort of education not only leads to a lot better customer 808 00:38:30,205 --> 00:38:33,915 attention, but a lot better customer engagement and obviously revenue down 809 00:38:33,915 --> 00:38:36,885 the line, because they understand like, Oh, if I need to have better hair. 810 00:38:37,240 --> 00:38:40,160 I need to utilize these guys products, and they're the ones 811 00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:41,340 that taught me how to do this. 812 00:38:41,770 --> 00:38:43,410 I'm just going to go straight to the source and buy. 813 00:38:43,730 --> 00:38:47,600 I can't tell you the amount of times where I've bought from brands because 814 00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:52,360 they've educated me on a specific thing that has helped me somehow in my life. 815 00:38:52,590 --> 00:38:52,870 Matt Edmundson: Yeah. 816 00:38:53,090 --> 00:38:53,660 No, that's best. 817 00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:57,940 And are you getting people in this sequence and this sort 818 00:38:57,940 --> 00:38:59,780 of uh, educational sequence? 819 00:39:01,720 --> 00:39:05,930 Say, there's a coupon, or are you getting them into this sequence because 820 00:39:05,940 --> 00:39:10,390 you've addressed a specific question like, how not to kill your houseplants 821 00:39:10,440 --> 00:39:14,120 is a simple example, or are you testing both to see which works better? 822 00:39:14,250 --> 00:39:17,110 I'm just curious how you're getting them to actually give you their 823 00:39:17,110 --> 00:39:18,290 email address in the first place. 824 00:39:19,325 --> 00:39:19,595 Nikita Vakhrushev: Yeah. 825 00:39:19,595 --> 00:39:23,155 So with that pop up, it's typically done with some sort of discount code 826 00:39:23,155 --> 00:39:26,125 or again, it depends on a client. 827 00:39:26,135 --> 00:39:28,095 Some clients we run pop ups with discounts. 828 00:39:28,135 --> 00:39:31,885 Some clients we run pop ups with information, like whether it's like a 829 00:39:31,885 --> 00:39:36,375 free ebook or a free guide, like you mentioned, and depending on the brand. 830 00:39:37,075 --> 00:39:41,275 if It's ebook based and we do a little bit more information and we don't even 831 00:39:41,365 --> 00:39:45,195 have a discount in there until the very end and if they haven't purchased up 832 00:39:45,195 --> 00:39:50,815 until that point, but if it's more offer based and discount based, we give them 833 00:39:50,815 --> 00:39:52,275 the discount within the first email. 834 00:39:52,585 --> 00:39:56,115 And then we preface the rest of the email like, Hey, for the next few 835 00:39:56,145 --> 00:39:58,975 emails that you'll get from us, you're going to learn about our business. 836 00:39:58,975 --> 00:40:03,085 You're going to learn about these specific things or how, like why 837 00:40:03,085 --> 00:40:06,095 we started the business, who we are, how it makes us different. 838 00:40:06,155 --> 00:40:11,135 And on top of that, more information on whatever niche that they're in, 839 00:40:11,205 --> 00:40:13,865 like for example, like houseplants and how to not kill them. 840 00:40:15,085 --> 00:40:15,375 Matt Edmundson: Yeah. 841 00:40:15,425 --> 00:40:15,845 Nice. 842 00:40:15,845 --> 00:40:16,605 That's fascinating. 843 00:40:17,195 --> 00:40:17,485 I get it. 844 00:40:17,485 --> 00:40:20,385 And it's an interesting one because we're just, we're launching a new. 845 00:40:20,635 --> 00:40:21,865 Skincare brand nice. 846 00:40:21,865 --> 00:40:23,305 Probably in January next year. 847 00:40:24,035 --> 00:40:26,975 And having, done beauty, we're heading back into it a little bit, can do 848 00:40:26,975 --> 00:40:27,995 things a little bit differently. 849 00:40:28,465 --> 00:40:32,005 And so we're thinking through now things like the welcome sequences, and 850 00:40:32,005 --> 00:40:35,705 how we do that whole email aspect of it because it's, it is a new brand. 851 00:40:35,705 --> 00:40:36,515 People won't have heard of us. 852 00:40:36,515 --> 00:40:37,835 We're gonna need to do that quite well. 853 00:40:38,465 --> 00:40:41,975 And so I'm always curious, in terms of what's gonna. 854 00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:44,790 Trigger somebody to give us their email address. 855 00:40:44,790 --> 00:40:47,040 And I think we'll test the different aspects. 856 00:40:47,040 --> 00:40:49,610 If we give you information, do we, what emails do we get? 857 00:40:49,610 --> 00:40:51,870 What's the average order value we get out of you, over time. 858 00:40:52,420 --> 00:40:56,780 Versus if we give you a coupon code for a sort of a one off 859 00:40:56,780 --> 00:40:58,190 discount, does that work better? 860 00:40:58,560 --> 00:40:59,550 Do you end up buying more? 861 00:40:59,700 --> 00:41:02,880 I'm just curious to see, what the sort of the net results of that will be. 862 00:41:03,805 --> 00:41:06,105 Nikita Vakhrushev: One thing I would take into consideration, and this 863 00:41:06,105 --> 00:41:08,785 is something that we're trying to test out and figure the strategy 864 00:41:08,785 --> 00:41:11,445 out for, is email forwardability. 865 00:41:11,965 --> 00:41:17,125 What's something, like what kind of content do you put into your email that 866 00:41:17,575 --> 00:41:21,605 is, has the highest chance of being forwarded to a friend or family member? 867 00:41:21,995 --> 00:41:24,185 Because at that point, you're not getting just one impression, you're 868 00:41:24,185 --> 00:41:25,905 getting multiple impressions per send. 869 00:41:26,785 --> 00:41:30,595 lIke, how can you value what kind of value can you put into that email or 870 00:41:30,595 --> 00:41:33,835 what kind of, what are some things you can do in order to do that? 871 00:41:35,085 --> 00:41:37,275 And that way you can get more brand exposure as well. 872 00:41:37,595 --> 00:41:38,425 Matt Edmundson: Yeah, no, really good. 873 00:41:38,625 --> 00:41:40,135 Who do you see doing it well? 874 00:41:41,225 --> 00:41:44,605 Nikita Vakhrushev: There's a few brands that I noticed that I know that this is... 875 00:41:45,225 --> 00:41:48,685 Like way back in the day, but I know Harry's did a thing when they just 876 00:41:48,685 --> 00:41:53,155 launched their brand of if you forward your art emails, you get added to you get 877 00:41:53,155 --> 00:41:55,515 more rewards points based off of that. 878 00:41:55,515 --> 00:41:58,475 And, if you get enough rewards points, then you get like a free 879 00:41:58,475 --> 00:41:59,715 razor or something like that. 880 00:41:59,785 --> 00:42:04,505 Yeah, that's like the most immediate example that comes to my mind, 881 00:42:04,515 --> 00:42:08,925 but I've not seen too many brands do something that's affordable. 882 00:42:09,660 --> 00:42:12,600 And I'm talking about brands like e com brands, when it comes to 883 00:42:12,670 --> 00:42:16,610 newsletters, educational newsletters, like that's something that I 884 00:42:16,610 --> 00:42:19,340 forward to my business friends all the time because Oh, I read this. 885 00:42:19,650 --> 00:42:20,580 This is very valuable. 886 00:42:20,590 --> 00:42:23,300 I know that, my friend is in a similar situation that 887 00:42:23,300 --> 00:42:24,340 this newsletter talked about. 888 00:42:24,380 --> 00:42:25,990 I have to forward that to them. 889 00:42:26,280 --> 00:42:26,610 Yeah. 890 00:42:28,060 --> 00:42:28,270 Matt Edmundson: Yeah. 891 00:42:28,270 --> 00:42:29,000 Really interesting. 892 00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:30,350 The affordability of an email. 893 00:42:30,550 --> 00:42:31,050 Address. 894 00:42:31,140 --> 00:42:33,350 The forwardability of an email. 895 00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:37,990 It's a really good point because I don't know if I've ever sat down 896 00:42:37,990 --> 00:42:41,900 recently and thought this email that I've got, how forwardable is it? 897 00:42:42,375 --> 00:42:44,645 It's not actually easy to say, let alone think about, is it? 898 00:42:44,835 --> 00:42:46,265 How forwardable is this? 899 00:42:46,775 --> 00:42:48,475 But it's a really good question. 900 00:42:49,145 --> 00:42:50,915 Nikita Vakhrushev: It doesn't have to be every email either. 901 00:42:51,015 --> 00:42:51,215 No. 902 00:42:52,035 --> 00:42:54,975 Yeah, could be like one a month or one every other week that you can send out 903 00:42:54,975 --> 00:42:57,705 that you know is likely to be forwarded. 904 00:42:58,195 --> 00:42:59,755 Yeah, that's something to keep in 905 00:42:59,755 --> 00:43:00,245 Matt Edmundson: mind as well. 906 00:43:00,255 --> 00:43:00,965 Yeah, absolutely. 907 00:43:00,975 --> 00:43:01,985 Really worth thinking about. 908 00:43:02,905 --> 00:43:04,635 Listen, Nikita, I'm aware of time, man. 909 00:43:04,635 --> 00:43:08,585 The clock has gone by at a million miles an hour and yeah, 910 00:43:08,585 --> 00:43:09,535 we're just getting started. 911 00:43:09,825 --> 00:43:13,705 As is often the case if people want to reach out to you, if they want to connect 912 00:43:13,705 --> 00:43:16,565 with you, if they want to find out more about Aspect, about how you can help them 913 00:43:16,565 --> 00:43:21,375 maybe with email or probably SMS, what's the best way for people to reach out? 914 00:43:22,370 --> 00:43:23,240 Nikita Vakhrushev: Yeah, definitely. 915 00:43:23,240 --> 00:43:25,760 So I'm relatively active on Twitter. 916 00:43:25,780 --> 00:43:28,330 So it's just my first and last name on there. 917 00:43:28,700 --> 00:43:31,530 I'm also, I have a, what's it called? 918 00:43:31,630 --> 00:43:37,090 You can just find me on my website, which is aspektagency.Com, A S P E K T, agency. 919 00:43:37,270 --> 00:43:37,640 com. 920 00:43:37,680 --> 00:43:41,290 And if you want us to take a look at your emails and tell you, what's 921 00:43:41,290 --> 00:43:44,920 good, what's bad, what needs to work on just go to the website and there's 922 00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:48,310 a free audit button at the top and you can click, submit your info and 923 00:43:48,310 --> 00:43:49,450 we can take a look at your account. 924 00:43:50,025 --> 00:43:52,725 And show you some improvements and it's completely free as well. 925 00:43:53,175 --> 00:43:53,765 Matt Edmundson: Fantastic. 926 00:43:53,775 --> 00:43:55,485 Do you find the free audit thing works well? 927 00:43:55,505 --> 00:43:56,655 Talk about lead magnets here. 928 00:43:56,965 --> 00:43:58,385 I'm just curious from an agency side. 929 00:43:59,055 --> 00:44:00,765 Nikita Vakhrushev: wE get I think five to ten a month. 930 00:44:01,510 --> 00:44:05,350 And yeah, all of those, for the most part, if they reply and give 931 00:44:05,350 --> 00:44:08,960 us access to their email account, we then hop on a call and then that leads 932 00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:10,820 to a better, bigger conversation. 933 00:44:11,300 --> 00:44:13,930 Sometimes they turn into customers, sometimes they don't, but either 934 00:44:13,930 --> 00:44:15,330 way, they still get value out of the 935 00:44:15,330 --> 00:44:15,690 Matt Edmundson: call. 936 00:44:16,080 --> 00:44:16,970 Yeah, no, absolutely. 937 00:44:17,080 --> 00:44:17,700 Fantastic. 938 00:44:18,140 --> 00:44:22,100 We will, of course, link to Nikita's information in the show notes as 939 00:44:22,100 --> 00:44:24,360 well, which as we talked about earlier, if you sign up for the 940 00:44:24,360 --> 00:44:28,240 newsletter, they're going to be in your inbox, so do reach out to Nikita. 941 00:44:28,240 --> 00:44:29,670 I'm sure he'd love to talk to you. 942 00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:32,310 And answer any questions you've got, but listen Nikita, I 943 00:44:32,320 --> 00:44:33,680 appreciate you coming on, man. 944 00:44:34,080 --> 00:44:40,420 I've got lots of notes as I inevitably do when I have these conversations and always 945 00:44:40,420 --> 00:44:41,780 good to stay on top of these things. 946 00:44:41,790 --> 00:44:46,270 So appreciate it, appreciate your insight and just coming on and sharing 947 00:44:46,270 --> 00:44:47,630 some real high value stuff, man. 948 00:44:48,440 --> 00:44:49,000 Yeah, of course. 949 00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:49,540 It was a pleasure. 950 00:44:50,320 --> 00:44:51,130 Fantastic. 951 00:44:51,410 --> 00:44:54,880 And of course, a huge, big shout out again to today's show 952 00:44:54,990 --> 00:44:56,490 sponsor, the e commerce cohort. 953 00:44:56,830 --> 00:45:02,700 Remember to check out their free training online at ecommercecycles. 954 00:45:02,700 --> 00:45:05,690 com and be sure to follow the e commerce podcasts wherever you get 955 00:45:05,690 --> 00:45:10,230 your podcasts from because we have yet more great conversations lined up and 956 00:45:10,270 --> 00:45:12,600 I don't want you to miss any of them. 957 00:45:12,920 --> 00:45:18,090 And in case no one has told you yet today, let me be the first. 958 00:45:18,360 --> 00:45:19,250 You are awesome. 959 00:45:19,290 --> 00:45:19,800 Yes, you are. 960 00:45:19,810 --> 00:45:20,630 Created awesome. 961 00:45:20,950 --> 00:45:22,570 It's just a burden you have to bear. 962 00:45:22,790 --> 00:45:23,810 Nikita has to bear it. 963 00:45:24,050 --> 00:45:24,950 I've got to bear it. 964 00:45:25,450 --> 00:45:26,430 You've got to bear it as well. 965 00:45:26,810 --> 00:45:29,990 Now, the e commerce podcast is produced by Aurion Media. 966 00:45:29,990 --> 00:45:34,000 You can find our entire archive of episodes on your favorite podcast app. 967 00:45:34,370 --> 00:45:37,820 The wonderful team that makes this show possible is Sadaf 968 00:45:37,820 --> 00:45:39,340 Beynon and Tanya Hutsuliak. 969 00:45:39,360 --> 00:45:43,130 Our theme song was written by the super talented Josh Edmundson. 970 00:45:43,470 --> 00:45:44,600 And as I mentioned. 971 00:45:45,130 --> 00:45:47,580 The transcript, the show notes, they're all available on the 972 00:45:47,580 --> 00:45:50,620 website, ecommercepodcast. 973 00:45:50,940 --> 00:45:51,470 net. 974 00:45:51,910 --> 00:45:54,500 That's it from me, that's it from Nikita. 975 00:45:54,710 --> 00:45:56,320 Thank you so much for joining us. 976 00:45:56,320 --> 00:45:58,310 Have a fantastic week wherever you are in the world. 977 00:45:58,620 --> 00:45:59,490 I'll see you next time. 978 00:45:59,705 --> 00:46:00,250 Bye for now.