1 00:00:00,236 --> 00:00:04,196 you found the backup wrap up your go-to podcast for all things 2 00:00:04,196 --> 00:00:06,746 backup recovery and cyber recovery. 3 00:00:07,286 --> 00:00:11,096 In this episode, we look at social engineering attacks and insider threats. 4 00:00:11,486 --> 00:00:17,876 By analyzing the pilot episode of Mr. Robot Persona and I break down how cyber 5 00:00:17,876 --> 00:00:20,306 criminals use social engineering tactics. 6 00:00:20,681 --> 00:00:23,921 To manipulate people into giving up sensitive information. 7 00:00:24,491 --> 00:00:28,871 We examine realistic ex examples from the show and discuss how AI 8 00:00:28,871 --> 00:00:33,341 powered voice cloning is making these attacks much more dangerous than ever. 9 00:00:33,731 --> 00:00:38,591 And of course, we explore the role of offsite backups in ransomware protection. 10 00:00:39,311 --> 00:00:43,301 This episode will give you practical tools to defend against social engineering. 11 00:00:43,601 --> 00:00:46,781 While actually having a little fun with a great show. 12 00:00:47,261 --> 00:00:52,361 By the way, if you don't know who I am, I'm w Curtis Preston, AKA, Mr. Backup. 13 00:00:52,451 --> 00:00:53,921 I almost said Mr. Robot. 14 00:00:54,371 --> 00:00:58,031 I've been passionate about backup and recovery for over 30 years. 15 00:00:58,301 --> 00:00:58,961 Ever since. 16 00:00:58,961 --> 00:01:02,231 I had to tell my boss that we had no backups of the production 17 00:01:02,231 --> 00:01:03,671 database that we had just lost. 18 00:01:04,061 --> 00:01:06,521 I don't want that to happen to you, and that's why I do this. 19 00:01:06,881 --> 00:01:11,771 On this podcast, we turn unappreciated backup admins into cyber recovery heroes. 20 00:01:12,116 --> 00:01:14,186 This is the backup wrap up. 21 00:01:28,073 --> 00:01:29,083 Welcome to the show. 22 00:01:30,313 --> 00:01:34,513 Hi, I am w Curtis Preston, AKA, Mr. Backup, and I have with me 23 00:01:34,513 --> 00:01:40,553 my Tesla Grief counselor Prasanna Malaiyandi, how's it going, prasanna? 24 00:01:41,023 --> 00:01:44,203 I am doing well, but I don't know about you. 25 00:01:44,203 --> 00:01:46,303 How are you doing, Curtis? 26 00:01:46,753 --> 00:01:46,963 And 27 00:01:47,113 --> 00:01:47,413 in pain. 28 00:01:47,623 --> 00:01:50,533 that you needed a Tesla grief counselor? 29 00:01:51,283 --> 00:01:52,033 I'm in pain. 30 00:01:52,033 --> 00:01:52,753 My friend. 31 00:01:53,263 --> 00:01:57,433 I, my Tesla got, we, um. 32 00:01:57,568 --> 00:01:59,133 think it's more than an owie. 33 00:02:00,028 --> 00:02:01,318 It's more than an alley. 34 00:02:02,338 --> 00:02:02,728 Yeah. 35 00:02:02,758 --> 00:02:05,338 For the record, clearly I'm fine. 36 00:02:05,758 --> 00:02:11,668 Uh, my Tesla is not, uh, I was having breakfast at my favorite breakfast place 37 00:02:12,118 --> 00:02:17,878 and two cars parked parallel, well, my car and then a big old pickup truck. 38 00:02:17,878 --> 00:02:21,538 And then the guy pulled out, we were both backed into the spot. 39 00:02:21,838 --> 00:02:25,438 He pulled out, did a sharp right, right into my front 40 00:02:25,438 --> 00:02:28,168 left bumper, and he got like. 41 00:02:28,948 --> 00:02:32,668 You know, ti tied up and he just couldn't figure out how to get out. 42 00:02:32,668 --> 00:02:35,518 And so basically he went back and forth a couple times. 43 00:02:36,568 --> 00:02:41,998 It actually, um, the picture kind of looks like a can opener like it places, 44 00:02:43,168 --> 00:02:46,978 and it ended up being about $7,000 worth of damage from a parking lot ding. 45 00:02:47,038 --> 00:02:48,358 Which is amazing, right? 46 00:02:48,358 --> 00:02:54,328 Because it's like the complete, uh, fender bumper, some, the support stuff behind 47 00:02:54,328 --> 00:02:56,408 the bumper as well as a control arm. 48 00:02:58,718 --> 00:02:59,168 and yeah. 49 00:02:59,168 --> 00:02:59,708 And a headlight 50 00:03:00,383 --> 00:03:00,713 Yeah. 51 00:03:00,773 --> 00:03:02,783 And it's not like those headlights are cheap. 52 00:03:02,783 --> 00:03:03,413 I was reading 53 00:03:03,488 --> 00:03:03,938 no. 54 00:03:04,043 --> 00:03:06,413 LED headlights are like a thousand dollars to replace. 55 00:03:06,428 --> 00:03:06,878 Yeah. 56 00:03:06,908 --> 00:03:09,218 So that's a thousand of the 7,000 head. 57 00:03:09,458 --> 00:03:10,238 It's the headlight. 58 00:03:10,238 --> 00:03:13,418 And then like there, they listed like a couple of other lights because 59 00:03:13,688 --> 00:03:16,328 there's a light in the, in the fender. 60 00:03:16,448 --> 00:03:16,778 Yeah. 61 00:03:16,868 --> 00:03:20,648 And that light breaks when you take the fender off according to them. 62 00:03:21,233 --> 00:03:23,333 Um, and I'm like, great design. 63 00:03:23,603 --> 00:03:29,753 But, um, yeah, so, uh, and, and then I, I require additional, uh, support because 64 00:03:29,753 --> 00:03:36,863 of the rental that I have, which I'm just gonna call not a Tesla, um, the Polestar. 65 00:03:37,283 --> 00:03:42,383 And it's not so much I am living, you know, when you, when when 66 00:03:42,383 --> 00:03:44,723 I originally bought my Tesla. 67 00:03:45,488 --> 00:03:49,448 You and I talked a lot before I bought the Tesla, and the thing that I remember 68 00:03:49,448 --> 00:03:54,248 you saying more than anything was it's about the supercharger network, right? 69 00:03:54,848 --> 00:04:00,128 And, and now I'm living that reality because I got used to the supercharger 70 00:04:00,128 --> 00:04:05,678 network and now I don't have the supercharger network and it is a hot mess. 71 00:04:06,213 --> 00:04:09,458 I, I feel for all of those poor. 72 00:04:10,043 --> 00:04:14,753 People out there that have EVs, that have CCS or Chad Mo. 73 00:04:14,813 --> 00:04:20,813 Is that how This's pronounced Chad Mo, uh, adapters and the, the fact that there's 74 00:04:20,813 --> 00:04:27,353 like 15 different competing companies, it really comes down to kind of three, right? 75 00:04:27,383 --> 00:04:32,393 Uh, at least in my area, uh, there's, there's Evie go, there's Electrify 76 00:04:32,393 --> 00:04:35,173 America, and then there's charge point, 77 00:04:35,418 --> 00:04:35,578 Yep. 78 00:04:38,323 --> 00:04:42,433 Like I, and the rates, the rates go up and down throughout the day. 79 00:04:42,433 --> 00:04:47,593 The rates based on the different location and, uh, trying, like in the Tesla, I 80 00:04:47,593 --> 00:04:52,573 just go and I say, you know, show me the chargers within 10 miles of me. 81 00:04:52,693 --> 00:04:55,273 And then, oh, look at the rates and if I want to save some money, 82 00:04:55,273 --> 00:04:59,953 because I, I do have to supercharge, uh, pretty, pretty regularly. 83 00:05:00,313 --> 00:05:00,673 And, uh. 84 00:05:01,038 --> 00:05:02,208 I can just look at the rate. 85 00:05:02,208 --> 00:05:04,308 Oh look, that one's less expensive right now. 86 00:05:04,308 --> 00:05:05,298 Let me drive over to there. 87 00:05:05,598 --> 00:05:06,408 The, there's it. 88 00:05:06,408 --> 00:05:10,158 No, it's like one at a, you know, and then there's the fact that, that a bunch 89 00:05:10,158 --> 00:05:13,738 of the fast chargers, 50 kilowatts. 90 00:05:14,518 --> 00:05:15,418 What is that? 91 00:05:15,508 --> 00:05:16,678 That's not fast. 92 00:05:17,003 --> 00:05:17,363 So. 93 00:05:17,513 --> 00:05:19,493 Well, it's all relative, Curtis. 94 00:05:19,493 --> 00:05:21,353 It is faster than charging at home, 95 00:05:23,423 --> 00:05:23,843 right? 96 00:05:23,918 --> 00:05:25,118 then I have that problem too. 97 00:05:25,148 --> 00:05:29,168 'cause I've, I have a, I have a Tesla plug at home, so I had to buy an adapter 98 00:05:29,288 --> 00:05:31,118 and I'm only getting 30 amps out of that. 99 00:05:31,118 --> 00:05:34,418 Instead of the 48 I was getting, uh, 100 00:05:34,648 --> 00:05:35,458 life is rough. 101 00:05:35,458 --> 00:05:36,738 Curtis life is rough. 102 00:05:37,688 --> 00:05:38,168 yeah. 103 00:05:38,378 --> 00:05:43,298 So I'm living, I'm, I'm just, it's not, it's not a good month for me. 104 00:05:43,298 --> 00:05:47,498 They're saying like two to three weeks, once the insurance company approves the 105 00:05:47,498 --> 00:05:49,478 estimate, which hasn't happened yet. 106 00:05:50,873 --> 00:05:53,783 Anyway, that's why I require a Testa grief counselor. 107 00:05:55,403 --> 00:05:56,273 It's it. 108 00:05:56,363 --> 00:05:56,903 Yeah. 109 00:05:56,993 --> 00:05:59,543 Well, so it's funny because I remember when you went from your 110 00:05:59,543 --> 00:06:03,113 Prius to your Tesla, you had all sorts of questions and concerns, 111 00:06:03,378 --> 00:06:03,798 Mm-hmm. 112 00:06:03,863 --> 00:06:07,313 still trying to figure out all these things, and then it's like human nature. 113 00:06:07,313 --> 00:06:09,473 We get used to things over time and then 114 00:06:09,578 --> 00:06:09,868 Yeah. 115 00:06:09,923 --> 00:06:10,463 to change. 116 00:06:10,463 --> 00:06:10,523 Yeah. 117 00:06:11,228 --> 00:06:16,658 Yeah, I, I, I, I'm, uh, you know, people still ask me, so, 118 00:06:16,658 --> 00:06:17,648 what do you think of your car? 119 00:06:17,648 --> 00:06:20,318 You know, and I'm like, I could, you know, 'cause they see, they see my 120 00:06:20,318 --> 00:06:22,118 car and they, and I'm like, I hate it. 121 00:06:22,118 --> 00:06:22,628 And they're like, what? 122 00:06:23,738 --> 00:06:27,908 And, and it's not so much the Polestar, it's the, it's the charging 123 00:06:27,908 --> 00:06:29,858 network attached to the Polestar and. 124 00:06:30,293 --> 00:06:34,373 and I'm sure there are ways to show maps and the charging stations 125 00:06:34,373 --> 00:06:35,903 and all the rest, maybe hopefully, 126 00:06:36,008 --> 00:06:37,838 But, but not with money, 127 00:06:37,973 --> 00:06:38,033 yeah. 128 00:06:38,168 --> 00:06:38,648 right? 129 00:06:38,738 --> 00:06:42,308 So like, so my favorite app is plug share. 130 00:06:42,378 --> 00:06:42,798 Mm-hmm. 131 00:06:43,178 --> 00:06:48,518 you can say, I would like CCS adapters over a a hundred kilowatts, 132 00:06:48,938 --> 00:06:50,318 uh, you know, in this range. 133 00:06:50,318 --> 00:06:51,458 And then they'll go, here they are. 134 00:06:51,608 --> 00:06:54,788 But then you click on 'em and it'll say, it'll give you an idea. 135 00:06:54,788 --> 00:06:57,188 Sometimes, sometimes it'll have a price, sometimes it won't. 136 00:06:57,188 --> 00:07:00,428 But it will say, listen, you should really go to the companies. 137 00:07:00,638 --> 00:07:02,948 But the other problem is that each of these networks has 138 00:07:02,948 --> 00:07:04,238 their own like membership. 139 00:07:04,538 --> 00:07:04,928 Yep. 140 00:07:05,048 --> 00:07:07,418 so you kind of have to pick one because they want you to 141 00:07:07,418 --> 00:07:10,448 pay to belong to that network. 142 00:07:10,808 --> 00:07:15,393 Um, and, um, if you want to discount, well the, it's, it's a, 143 00:07:15,608 --> 00:07:17,528 it's, you want the discount, right? 144 00:07:17,528 --> 00:07:20,108 They, they price it so that you definitely want the discount. 145 00:07:21,278 --> 00:07:23,828 Anyway, uh, we're gonna, we're gonna continue. 146 00:07:23,918 --> 00:07:27,548 Um, I just finished, I just published as we're recording it. 147 00:07:27,548 --> 00:07:31,658 I just published the Mission Impossible episode, and I thought we would do, 148 00:07:32,078 --> 00:07:37,358 um, we would go down another sort of entertainment, I'm not gonna call it a rat 149 00:07:37,358 --> 00:07:41,738 hole, an entertainment tunnel, uh, path. 150 00:07:42,773 --> 00:07:45,503 Yes, because it's really hard to 151 00:07:47,993 --> 00:07:54,388 good representations of and cybersecurity in Hollywood. 152 00:07:55,298 --> 00:07:55,688 Yeah. 153 00:07:55,808 --> 00:07:56,168 Yeah. 154 00:07:56,468 --> 00:08:02,258 And I think one example of of pretty decent coverage is Mr. Robot. 155 00:08:03,128 --> 00:08:05,378 And, um, you know, it's not perfect. 156 00:08:05,378 --> 00:08:06,368 It doesn't get everything right. 157 00:08:06,368 --> 00:08:07,898 It sensationalizes some stuff. 158 00:08:09,008 --> 00:08:12,788 But I, I think just by and large, clearly somebody who knows 159 00:08:12,788 --> 00:08:16,118 something about cybersecurity, uh, and also backups, right? 160 00:08:16,148 --> 00:08:19,118 Um, you know, our two sort of intersecting topics. 161 00:08:19,538 --> 00:08:23,018 And so I thought, I thought that it'd be perfect for us to do a, a series 162 00:08:23,078 --> 00:08:23,498 Yep. 163 00:08:23,828 --> 00:08:28,118 based on things that we can learn from Mr. Robot episodes. 164 00:08:28,118 --> 00:08:28,478 Now 165 00:08:28,553 --> 00:08:29,873 so, so I think the 166 00:08:29,923 --> 00:08:30,213 that 167 00:08:30,233 --> 00:08:31,433 we should say is 168 00:08:31,613 --> 00:08:31,833 is. 169 00:08:32,003 --> 00:08:35,663 if you have not watched the show and you are interested in it, 170 00:08:36,113 --> 00:08:37,793 you should pause this episode. 171 00:08:37,793 --> 00:08:40,913 Go watch the first episode, which we're about to cover today, and 172 00:08:40,913 --> 00:08:43,973 then come back and listen to it because there will be spoilers. 173 00:08:44,663 --> 00:08:46,583 Yes, there will be spoilers. 174 00:08:47,003 --> 00:08:49,583 Um, hint, um, Rammy. 175 00:08:49,583 --> 00:08:52,223 Malick is not Mr. Robot. 176 00:08:52,733 --> 00:08:52,973 Hmm. 177 00:08:54,653 --> 00:08:55,373 That's a different guy. 178 00:08:55,493 --> 00:09:01,763 Um, so the first episode we're going to talk about, and it's a nice tail 179 00:09:01,763 --> 00:09:05,753 off of the pre, the last episode, which we talked about, insider threat. 180 00:09:05,753 --> 00:09:08,753 So we're gonna talk about social engineering and insider threats. 181 00:09:09,353 --> 00:09:17,213 From the, the perspective of episode one, which is called, uh, hello Friend Mov. 182 00:09:17,843 --> 00:09:22,433 Um, and, um, you know, which is a, which is a, a bit of a spoiler in 183 00:09:22,433 --> 00:09:24,203 terms of how things get introduced. 184 00:09:24,203 --> 00:09:28,913 So, um, let me, uh, just give a, a summary of the episode. 185 00:09:29,603 --> 00:09:33,203 Uh, you know, it's the pilot, so you know, you're introducing the 186 00:09:33,203 --> 00:09:36,713 characters and you get Elliot, the cybersecurity professional. 187 00:09:36,923 --> 00:09:40,253 So he works for All Safe, which is a cybersecurity company, 188 00:09:40,343 --> 00:09:42,773 which is fascinating given what we're talking about. 189 00:09:43,293 --> 00:09:47,853 I just wanted to say like the people who pick these names, they're geniuses 190 00:09:49,503 --> 00:09:51,063 like of these companies, right? 191 00:09:51,063 --> 00:09:51,243 It's 192 00:09:51,283 --> 00:09:52,123 Yeah, yeah. 193 00:09:52,468 --> 00:09:52,758 Yeah. 194 00:09:52,893 --> 00:09:54,183 similar to Allstate, right? 195 00:09:54,183 --> 00:09:55,413 Insurance and 196 00:09:55,503 --> 00:09:55,983 Yeah. 197 00:09:56,163 --> 00:09:56,583 Yeah. 198 00:09:56,943 --> 00:10:02,493 And, and also we have Evil Corp, which is um, which is the big company 199 00:10:02,493 --> 00:10:03,873 that they're gonna try to take down. 200 00:10:03,993 --> 00:10:07,293 And they use the logo, they use basically Enron's logo. 201 00:10:07,398 --> 00:10:12,048 That's, that's Evil Corp. And I love that they just, they call it Evil Corp in the 202 00:10:12,048 --> 00:10:16,248 show, and no one, like does it, wink, wink, like it's literally just, that's 203 00:10:16,248 --> 00:10:17,958 the name of this company called Evil Corp. 204 00:10:18,528 --> 00:10:19,008 Uh, yeah. 205 00:10:19,008 --> 00:10:24,918 So he works at, uh, the cybersecurity firm and then, uh, evil Corp is a, uh, 206 00:10:24,978 --> 00:10:31,938 as a client of allsafe and they actually get hacked in the, uh, in the pilot. 207 00:10:32,268 --> 00:10:35,023 And the, the, the, um. 208 00:10:36,453 --> 00:10:38,013 All safe to text the hack. 209 00:10:38,193 --> 00:10:39,303 They stop the hack. 210 00:10:39,813 --> 00:10:40,323 Clearly. 211 00:10:40,323 --> 00:10:43,623 Remy Malick is like sort of the, the star of everything, and 212 00:10:43,623 --> 00:10:44,883 he's the one who figures it out. 213 00:10:44,883 --> 00:10:47,913 Not only did that he, he's able to find something they keep 214 00:10:47,913 --> 00:10:49,653 referring to as the dat file. 215 00:10:49,923 --> 00:10:51,723 So he finds the IOC, right? 216 00:10:51,723 --> 00:10:53,193 The indicator of compromise. 217 00:10:53,583 --> 00:10:59,493 And, uh, inside that debt file, he finds some, what would you call those, 218 00:10:59,493 --> 00:11:02,583 uh, breadcrumbs that leads him to Mr. 219 00:11:02,583 --> 00:11:03,063 Robot. 220 00:11:03,273 --> 00:11:06,663 And it turns out that this whole thing was a recruiting exercise 221 00:11:06,873 --> 00:11:08,253 to see if he could find this. 222 00:11:08,523 --> 00:11:12,513 And it's for this group called FSO Society, which is the group that 223 00:11:12,513 --> 00:11:18,513 hacked Evil Corp. And, uh, he's then presented the choice of, um. 224 00:11:19,168 --> 00:11:24,508 Of joining F Society to take down Evil Corp. They are a big bad bank, 225 00:11:24,868 --> 00:11:26,788 and we're gonna take them down. 226 00:11:27,028 --> 00:11:33,838 And literally what he wants to do is erase all of the, um, the, the debt, you know, 227 00:11:33,838 --> 00:11:36,118 by, by basically erasing all the records. 228 00:11:36,238 --> 00:11:38,458 And he's like, but wait, there's backups. 229 00:11:38,458 --> 00:11:41,128 They have backups stored at Steel Mountain. 230 00:11:42,603 --> 00:11:43,293 That's another one. 231 00:11:43,683 --> 00:11:45,093 They have offsite backups. 232 00:11:45,093 --> 00:11:45,543 Thank you. 233 00:11:45,663 --> 00:11:46,473 Good job. 234 00:11:46,563 --> 00:11:51,183 They have, you know, offsite air gapped backups stored at Steel 235 00:11:51,183 --> 00:11:53,133 Mountain, but he says, aha. 236 00:11:53,283 --> 00:11:58,233 There is a gas storage facil, a gas processing facility, I think 237 00:11:58,233 --> 00:12:00,063 is what it is, right next to. 238 00:12:00,353 --> 00:12:05,663 Bad desire there, right next to the, uh, steel mountain storage facility, and we're 239 00:12:05,663 --> 00:12:10,373 gonna blow it up, thus blowing up Steel Mountain and all of their backups with it. 240 00:12:10,373 --> 00:12:11,213 That's the plan. 241 00:12:11,363 --> 00:12:12,053 What do you think? 242 00:12:12,233 --> 00:12:13,163 Do you want to join? 243 00:12:13,583 --> 00:12:13,913 Right. 244 00:12:13,913 --> 00:12:16,013 And that's, and that is episode one. 245 00:12:16,253 --> 00:12:19,703 What, you know, what's your thoughts on the, you know, just overall 246 00:12:19,968 --> 00:12:20,208 Yeah. 247 00:12:20,238 --> 00:12:20,448 No. 248 00:12:20,508 --> 00:12:24,348 So loved episode one 249 00:12:24,648 --> 00:12:25,068 mm-hmm. 250 00:12:25,848 --> 00:12:28,968 It's one of those shows where you're like, oh, like especially being in 251 00:12:28,968 --> 00:12:32,148 tech and movies, other than Mission Impossible, which you talked about, 252 00:12:32,358 --> 00:12:35,688 most shows do an awful job of portraying or it's like, Hey, let me just type. 253 00:12:35,688 --> 00:12:38,928 I think the best was, uh, example you have is like Alias, right? 254 00:12:38,928 --> 00:12:40,968 Where it's like, oh no, they're in the network. 255 00:12:40,968 --> 00:12:42,138 Let's just pull all the cables. 256 00:12:42,138 --> 00:12:42,318 It's 257 00:12:42,648 --> 00:12:42,978 Yeah. 258 00:12:43,398 --> 00:12:45,078 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 259 00:12:45,258 --> 00:12:48,348 The, the one, the one of the worst ones I can think of is like the net, 260 00:12:48,708 --> 00:12:49,098 yeah. 261 00:12:49,518 --> 00:12:51,018 Um, you know, it's just, yeah. 262 00:12:51,018 --> 00:12:51,678 Sandra Bullock. 263 00:12:51,678 --> 00:12:51,948 Yeah. 264 00:12:52,308 --> 00:12:52,578 Yeah. 265 00:12:52,608 --> 00:12:53,838 The tech is so bad. 266 00:12:53,838 --> 00:12:55,938 This is, the tech is decent, right? 267 00:12:56,403 --> 00:12:57,063 exactly. 268 00:12:57,363 --> 00:13:05,163 And I think it's also interesting sort of that dilemma that Elliot 269 00:13:05,163 --> 00:13:07,023 played by Remy Mallick faces, right? 270 00:13:07,023 --> 00:13:12,873 Where it's like, do I want to help and defeat the evil corp, or 271 00:13:12,873 --> 00:13:17,463 do I wanna keep my job and be a normal person and all the rest? 272 00:13:18,018 --> 00:13:21,048 Yeah, there, there's a couple of side plots. 273 00:13:21,168 --> 00:13:26,658 Uh, one of them is, uh, that there's this girl that he, he kind of, I don't know 274 00:13:26,658 --> 00:13:30,108 if he, I think he has a crush on her, or she's just a friend, I'm not quite sure. 275 00:13:30,108 --> 00:13:33,468 But she's, you know, she's this woman that, that works 276 00:13:33,468 --> 00:13:34,938 and she's an account executive. 277 00:13:34,938 --> 00:13:40,128 And the, um, in, uh, and then the, um. 278 00:13:40,668 --> 00:13:42,078 The, that's one plot. 279 00:13:42,078 --> 00:13:44,988 And then the other plot is that he's seeing a counselor. 280 00:13:45,618 --> 00:13:52,368 Um, and he clearly has some issues with people and like, and he, he clearly in 281 00:13:52,368 --> 00:13:56,238 his brain, like he hates everyone and he hates society and he hates like, 282 00:13:56,658 --> 00:14:02,718 like, uh, you know, capitalism and, you know, so he's definitely, you know, 283 00:14:02,778 --> 00:14:06,528 f Society again, great naming, right? 284 00:14:06,678 --> 00:14:08,958 'cause it's like f the society, right? 285 00:14:09,603 --> 00:14:10,293 I get it. 286 00:14:10,833 --> 00:14:16,143 Um, and, and so it, it, it definitely, like on one hand he's like, I hate, 287 00:14:16,263 --> 00:14:20,253 I hate the world, and this would be a great way to screw the world. 288 00:14:20,943 --> 00:14:23,388 But he also does have some, um, yeah. 289 00:14:23,733 --> 00:14:28,773 I think the one critique I'll make of the show, I think they did a phenomenal job. 290 00:14:29,163 --> 00:14:33,003 I think that they played too much into the stereotype of a hacker 291 00:14:33,238 --> 00:14:33,658 Mm-hmm. 292 00:14:33,663 --> 00:14:34,713 with his character. 293 00:14:36,348 --> 00:14:36,768 Right. 294 00:14:37,068 --> 00:14:37,338 In the 295 00:14:37,443 --> 00:14:37,923 In what way? 296 00:14:38,118 --> 00:14:42,708 in the sense of right, a loner who has people issues, right? 297 00:14:42,708 --> 00:14:44,988 Who is right. 298 00:14:45,168 --> 00:14:46,338 Those sort of things 299 00:14:46,458 --> 00:14:48,078 This is, this is wrong. 300 00:14:48,528 --> 00:14:49,188 This is wrong. 301 00:14:49,188 --> 00:14:49,638 How? 302 00:14:49,908 --> 00:14:50,328 no, no, no. 303 00:14:50,388 --> 00:14:53,628 But if you think about like your Edward Snowdens, right? 304 00:14:53,628 --> 00:14:54,618 Your other folks, right? 305 00:14:54,618 --> 00:14:55,038 They're just 306 00:14:55,103 --> 00:14:55,393 Yeah. 307 00:14:55,953 --> 00:14:58,653 They look and seem like normal people. 308 00:14:58,653 --> 00:14:58,923 Right? 309 00:14:58,923 --> 00:15:02,853 It's almost like portraying that, Hey, if you see someone who looks like 310 00:15:02,853 --> 00:15:06,423 this, they may be a hacker, versus there are a bunch of people who seem 311 00:15:06,423 --> 00:15:12,453 normal, who act normal, who have social skills, But who could be malicious? 312 00:15:13,068 --> 00:15:15,588 Yeah, I, I think that's probably true of any. 313 00:15:15,928 --> 00:15:16,218 Yeah. 314 00:15:16,698 --> 00:15:18,288 Sort of fringe group, right? 315 00:15:18,318 --> 00:15:22,488 Um, there are definitely, so yeah, hacker doesn't necessarily, you know, Rami Malick 316 00:15:22,488 --> 00:15:26,988 has a very unique look to him, and I'm sure that's part of why he was hired. 317 00:15:27,468 --> 00:15:31,458 Um, and, um, and the character definitely is a loner, right? 318 00:15:31,698 --> 00:15:35,298 Um, but they paint a picture that he is an ethical hacker. 319 00:15:35,363 --> 00:15:35,653 Yeah. 320 00:15:36,073 --> 00:15:39,463 So, um, and what we're gonna talk about, one of the things in this, in this 321 00:15:39,463 --> 00:15:44,893 episode is they, they do paint the picture that he does do some hacking, but his 322 00:15:44,893 --> 00:15:50,023 hacking, like his first thing that we see in the episode is that he, the, he 323 00:15:50,023 --> 00:15:53,533 uncovers a person who does child porn, 324 00:15:53,748 --> 00:15:54,018 Yeah. 325 00:15:54,103 --> 00:15:56,863 at least he, he has child porn. 326 00:15:57,093 --> 00:15:57,423 Yeah. 327 00:15:57,673 --> 00:16:01,213 um, he, um, 'cause the guy's like, I never hurt anyone. 328 00:16:02,073 --> 00:16:02,373 Yeah. 329 00:16:02,403 --> 00:16:02,793 Okay. 330 00:16:03,063 --> 00:16:03,813 Dude, whatever. 331 00:16:04,083 --> 00:16:08,943 Um, and, and he, and he turns in this person to the police. 332 00:16:08,973 --> 00:16:09,393 Right. 333 00:16:09,518 --> 00:16:09,808 Yeah. 334 00:16:09,843 --> 00:16:13,263 Um, and then the other topic that we're gonna talk about in this, you know, in 335 00:16:13,263 --> 00:16:18,063 this episode, um, he, you know, he paints a picture that he's an ethical hacker. 336 00:16:18,063 --> 00:16:20,913 And so what these guys are suggesting is very much a 337 00:16:20,913 --> 00:16:25,263 non-ethical thing, unless you really 338 00:16:25,533 --> 00:16:25,863 Believe in 339 00:16:25,863 --> 00:16:29,223 have some serious situational ethic situation. 340 00:16:29,223 --> 00:16:30,003 Yeah, yeah. 341 00:16:30,003 --> 00:16:30,753 Believe in the cause. 342 00:16:30,753 --> 00:16:30,933 Yeah. 343 00:16:31,053 --> 00:16:31,383 right. 344 00:16:31,383 --> 00:16:32,343 Of FSO society. 345 00:16:33,048 --> 00:16:33,498 Yeah. 346 00:16:33,588 --> 00:16:34,008 Yeah. 347 00:16:34,128 --> 00:16:37,158 Which is apparently, you know, erasing all debt. 348 00:16:37,473 --> 00:16:40,593 but by the way, okay, so there are two things I think that were interesting 349 00:16:40,593 --> 00:16:45,603 that are actually three incidences that happened in this episode, which 350 00:16:45,603 --> 00:16:47,373 I think might be useful to talk about. 351 00:16:47,373 --> 00:16:47,553 Right? 352 00:16:47,553 --> 00:16:48,003 The first, 353 00:16:48,198 --> 00:16:48,378 Okay. 354 00:16:48,663 --> 00:16:51,033 The first that you alluded to was a cyber cafe owner. 355 00:16:51,618 --> 00:16:51,888 Yeah. 356 00:16:52,413 --> 00:16:55,053 And so what did he end up doing? 357 00:16:55,653 --> 00:17:01,173 Or did they, uh, describe what he did in order to sort of infiltrate? 358 00:17:01,173 --> 00:17:04,233 Or was it kind of like, Hey, I did something and, 359 00:17:04,308 --> 00:17:08,568 think he, yeah, he, I, he, he did give a, he did give a, a summary. 360 00:17:08,568 --> 00:17:11,478 I don't remember exactly what he, 'cause it was so early in the episode, 361 00:17:11,478 --> 00:17:15,588 I wasn't, you know, quite, but he basically got into the guy's accounts. 362 00:17:15,708 --> 00:17:20,418 He saw that he was doing, the guy was using, uh, security by obscurity. 363 00:17:21,088 --> 00:17:26,608 Right in that he was hiding in plain sight in this, uh, cyber cafe. 364 00:17:26,848 --> 00:17:27,058 Right. 365 00:17:27,058 --> 00:17:34,198 He was using his business that otherwise would have, you know, um, but, but, um, 366 00:17:34,588 --> 00:17:39,778 Elliot saw something that caused him to sort of look differently and he looked 367 00:17:39,778 --> 00:17:41,638 and he saw all this stuff going on, right? 368 00:17:41,968 --> 00:17:45,418 And he's like, look, I, I, I've, I've got your emails, I've got your, you 369 00:17:45,418 --> 00:17:46,888 know, I've got, I've got all the stuff. 370 00:17:46,888 --> 00:17:48,328 I've got, dude, I've got all the evidence. 371 00:17:48,713 --> 00:17:50,543 And the guy's like, are you blackmailing me? 372 00:17:50,993 --> 00:17:55,883 And, um, and he's saying, um, no, I've turned you into the cops. 373 00:17:55,883 --> 00:17:56,903 And then the cops all show up. 374 00:17:59,363 --> 00:17:59,723 Yeah. 375 00:17:59,843 --> 00:18:02,393 So I don't, I don't, I don't have any good stuff from that one. 376 00:18:02,393 --> 00:18:04,788 Do you, do you have any, um, yeah, 377 00:18:04,968 --> 00:18:05,478 from that one. 378 00:18:05,478 --> 00:18:06,858 Any good takeaways? 379 00:18:07,223 --> 00:18:07,613 yeah. 380 00:18:08,003 --> 00:18:13,253 But the, let's talk about the, the, the, i I, I want to call her the girlfriend. 381 00:18:13,283 --> 00:18:14,903 The, the, the friend girl. 382 00:18:15,078 --> 00:18:15,498 Yeah, 383 00:18:16,553 --> 00:18:16,703 yeah. 384 00:18:16,878 --> 00:18:21,048 the coworker who he may or may not have a crush on 385 00:18:21,738 --> 00:18:22,218 Yeah. 386 00:18:22,308 --> 00:18:22,668 Yeah, 387 00:18:22,818 --> 00:18:24,138 may or may not have feelings for. 388 00:18:24,768 --> 00:18:25,638 yeah, yeah. 389 00:18:25,968 --> 00:18:32,793 So, um, the, um, uh, you want, you wanna talk about that. 390 00:18:33,153 --> 00:18:36,123 So his coworker, whose name is Angela, right? 391 00:18:36,153 --> 00:18:41,343 He sort of is looking out for whatever you want and he suspects the guy 392 00:18:41,343 --> 00:18:42,843 and doesn't like the guy at all. 393 00:18:42,843 --> 00:18:44,763 Going back to what Curtis was saying, he hates people, 394 00:18:45,438 --> 00:18:45,588 Yeah, 395 00:18:45,723 --> 00:18:48,813 He has people issues and so he 396 00:18:48,978 --> 00:18:50,118 but he senses something. 397 00:18:50,118 --> 00:18:52,223 Something is not right with this guy. 398 00:18:52,293 --> 00:18:52,583 Yeah. 399 00:18:52,713 --> 00:18:53,673 senses are going off. 400 00:18:53,673 --> 00:18:59,403 So he decides, okay, let me take a look and do a deeper dive and dig 401 00:18:59,403 --> 00:19:00,693 into what this guy's all about. 402 00:19:00,693 --> 00:19:06,033 And so he actually sort of social engineers, the guy, right? 403 00:19:06,198 --> 00:19:06,648 Yeah. 404 00:19:07,143 --> 00:19:09,153 uh, do you wanna walk through like what he does? 405 00:19:10,083 --> 00:19:14,823 Yeah, so he calls the guy pretending to be, I believe it's the bank, and 406 00:19:14,823 --> 00:19:16,863 basically said, Hey, we're the bank. 407 00:19:16,863 --> 00:19:20,553 We need to talk to you about your account, but before we do that, uh, 408 00:19:20,553 --> 00:19:24,003 we need to authenticate you, uh, you know, what's your dog's name, what's 409 00:19:24,003 --> 00:19:25,055 your, you know, blah, blah, blah. 410 00:19:25,060 --> 00:19:28,323 And he asked a couple different security questions and the guy's 411 00:19:28,323 --> 00:19:31,653 like, I don't remember these being security questions, but the guy totally 412 00:19:31,653 --> 00:19:33,423 falls for the social engineering. 413 00:19:33,528 --> 00:19:36,558 which is crazy considering he works for a cybersecurity company. 414 00:19:37,023 --> 00:19:38,013 Right, right. 415 00:19:39,633 --> 00:19:42,663 Maybe he's another, maybe he's an ae and he's not a, he's not 416 00:19:42,663 --> 00:19:45,063 a cybersecurity professional, but it's still, he should know. 417 00:19:45,393 --> 00:19:46,143 He should know better. 418 00:19:46,143 --> 00:19:51,843 And then he uses the, the responses to then, um, seed a 419 00:19:51,843 --> 00:19:54,303 password guessing, uh, algorithm. 420 00:19:55,608 --> 00:19:55,878 Yeah. 421 00:19:56,028 --> 00:19:56,208 And 422 00:19:56,373 --> 00:19:56,583 And. 423 00:19:56,628 --> 00:20:00,768 ends up breaking into the guy's account and he finds all sorts of evidence 424 00:20:00,768 --> 00:20:03,108 that the guy is not who he seems to be. 425 00:20:03,583 --> 00:20:03,804 Dun Dun. 426 00:20:05,268 --> 00:20:05,748 Yes. 427 00:20:06,048 --> 00:20:10,278 married and actually Dun, he, I think he has like multiple 428 00:20:10,278 --> 00:20:11,448 girlfriends or something. 429 00:20:11,448 --> 00:20:11,808 Yeah. 430 00:20:11,808 --> 00:20:12,228 Yeah. 431 00:20:12,858 --> 00:20:14,148 Not a good guy. 432 00:20:14,358 --> 00:20:16,338 And then he, he blackmails something. 433 00:20:16,338 --> 00:20:18,738 He's like, look, get out, get out of her life, or else. 434 00:20:18,828 --> 00:20:19,938 Um, and then I, 435 00:20:19,938 --> 00:20:22,908 the first one, we talked about him being like the ethical hacker. 436 00:20:23,538 --> 00:20:23,958 yeah. 437 00:20:24,198 --> 00:20:26,118 This one, do you think he's really the ethical hacker 438 00:20:28,968 --> 00:20:30,798 just because it's self-motivated? 439 00:20:31,008 --> 00:20:31,248 Does 440 00:20:31,308 --> 00:20:35,718 It is, you know, he is an ethical hacker with an ulterior motive. 441 00:20:35,718 --> 00:20:36,798 How's that, right? 442 00:20:36,948 --> 00:20:39,588 I I, I, I'm one of these that believes that there's no 443 00:20:39,588 --> 00:20:41,448 such thing as a selfless act. 444 00:20:42,363 --> 00:20:46,413 Um, every selfless act that you do has a reason behind it. 445 00:20:46,413 --> 00:20:47,883 This just may be a bigger reason. 446 00:20:48,003 --> 00:20:48,363 Right. 447 00:20:48,783 --> 00:20:51,813 Um, we could have that philosophical discussion, you 448 00:20:51,813 --> 00:20:53,973 know, even like gifts to charity. 449 00:20:54,033 --> 00:20:54,393 Right. 450 00:20:54,393 --> 00:20:57,693 You know, you give it, I, I believe you, you know, you want that 451 00:20:57,693 --> 00:20:59,043 feeling of, you know, whatever. 452 00:20:59,043 --> 00:20:59,313 Right. 453 00:21:00,033 --> 00:21:02,013 Anyway, in this case, he's trying to stop the, 454 00:21:02,073 --> 00:21:02,373 Yeah, 455 00:21:02,433 --> 00:21:02,733 you know. 456 00:21:03,033 --> 00:21:06,453 the interesting thing, if we just look at this particular incident, right? 457 00:21:06,873 --> 00:21:11,343 It's the fact the guy worked at a cybersecurity company, he didn't 458 00:21:11,493 --> 00:21:15,213 like, someone calls you from the bank and starts asking you questions. 459 00:21:15,213 --> 00:21:19,293 You should be like, Hey, I'll call you back, hang up, and then call the 460 00:21:19,293 --> 00:21:20,853 number from the back of your bank card, 461 00:21:21,048 --> 00:21:21,768 Yes. 462 00:21:21,858 --> 00:21:22,308 Right. 463 00:21:22,413 --> 00:21:25,863 whatever else to validate because then you know, okay, that is the actual number. 464 00:21:26,538 --> 00:21:31,128 Well, you know, here's a, here's a real world, um, example of this. 465 00:21:31,188 --> 00:21:36,678 I am an Airbnb host and I, and I'm on the Facebook groups and this person said. 466 00:21:37,518 --> 00:21:40,398 Someone calling, claiming to be Airbnb. 467 00:21:40,668 --> 00:21:45,708 Um, and I talked to them and uh, next thing you know, he's locked out 468 00:21:45,708 --> 00:21:49,128 of his Airbnb account and they've changed the bank stuff to go and 469 00:21:49,128 --> 00:21:53,448 he's trying to get into Airbnb to get to, to fix things, right? 470 00:21:53,448 --> 00:21:59,898 Meanwhile, any payments that go through or going to this other entity and, um. 471 00:22:00,668 --> 00:22:06,278 And I'm just like, guys, guys, you know, like what if, if any business 472 00:22:06,278 --> 00:22:12,618 or government entity, you know, or personal entity calls you they 473 00:22:12,618 --> 00:22:15,918 called you and then they want you to authenticate them yourself. 474 00:22:16,758 --> 00:22:18,438 It's, it's a scam. 475 00:22:18,743 --> 00:22:18,963 Yep. 476 00:22:19,788 --> 00:22:22,488 And, and even if it's not a scam, if it's not a scam. 477 00:22:22,578 --> 00:22:24,873 'cause what, well, what you should do regardless is what you just said. 478 00:22:25,588 --> 00:22:25,978 Right. 479 00:22:26,638 --> 00:22:29,398 Call them back at the published number. 480 00:22:29,398 --> 00:22:33,328 Not a number that they give you the published customer service number. 481 00:22:33,748 --> 00:22:34,138 Right. 482 00:22:34,138 --> 00:22:37,438 And they're like, you know, they're like, no, that one, you gotta call 483 00:22:37,438 --> 00:22:38,938 this special number to get into me. 484 00:22:38,938 --> 00:22:39,178 You know? 485 00:22:39,178 --> 00:22:39,673 No, no, no, no. 486 00:22:39,688 --> 00:22:41,098 I'm gonna call the published number. 487 00:22:41,308 --> 00:22:41,608 Yep. 488 00:22:41,818 --> 00:22:46,888 And I, I, in my entire career, this has always been a thing in my entire career. 489 00:22:46,888 --> 00:22:47,698 I've always. 490 00:22:48,298 --> 00:22:49,198 Done this. 491 00:22:49,408 --> 00:22:54,268 And I've had one company, and I remember that it was Union Bank, which it, 492 00:22:54,328 --> 00:22:56,278 you know, this is like 20 years ago. 493 00:22:56,488 --> 00:23:00,298 Union Bank would call me and say, we want to talk to you about your account, 494 00:23:00,298 --> 00:23:01,618 but we need you authenticate first. 495 00:23:01,618 --> 00:23:01,843 And I'm like. 496 00:23:02,548 --> 00:23:05,728 You are bad, bad company. 497 00:23:05,908 --> 00:23:08,278 And it was Union Bank, right? 498 00:23:08,548 --> 00:23:11,398 They're like, we want to call you about your, your, um, you know, 499 00:23:11,398 --> 00:23:14,368 these transactions, but we need you to authenticate yourself before you 500 00:23:14,368 --> 00:23:16,378 can authenticate these transactions. 501 00:23:16,408 --> 00:23:18,298 And I'm like, you called me. 502 00:23:19,408 --> 00:23:19,678 What? 503 00:23:19,798 --> 00:23:20,158 What? 504 00:23:21,103 --> 00:23:21,703 exactly. 505 00:23:22,228 --> 00:23:22,828 uh, yeah. 506 00:23:22,828 --> 00:23:23,668 So that's, that. 507 00:23:23,668 --> 00:23:25,768 That's classic social engineering. 508 00:23:25,888 --> 00:23:27,928 There are, there are lots of, go ahead. 509 00:23:28,108 --> 00:23:31,168 there's also one more I wanted to talk about too from, from this incident. 510 00:23:31,738 --> 00:23:32,818 A social engineering one. 511 00:23:33,208 --> 00:23:33,209 yeah, 512 00:23:33,748 --> 00:23:34,108 Okay. 513 00:23:34,168 --> 00:23:34,528 What? 514 00:23:34,618 --> 00:23:35,098 Go ahead. 515 00:23:35,398 --> 00:23:38,938 So the other one to talk about is the security questions, 516 00:23:39,778 --> 00:23:40,168 Yeah. 517 00:23:40,438 --> 00:23:40,858 right? 518 00:23:41,233 --> 00:23:46,468 So I know everyone likes to be like, Hey, what's your favorite, uh, fruit? 519 00:23:46,468 --> 00:23:48,328 Or What's your favorite travel destination? 520 00:23:48,328 --> 00:23:48,853 Or blah, blah, blah. 521 00:23:49,843 --> 00:23:52,843 People don't realize, you don't have to answer those truthfully 522 00:23:53,488 --> 00:23:54,238 Yeah. 523 00:23:54,763 --> 00:23:58,783 is asking you, like, I remember we had Rose Rose 524 00:23:59,413 --> 00:23:59,893 Yes. 525 00:24:00,013 --> 00:24:00,823 podcast, 526 00:24:01,213 --> 00:24:01,573 Yeah. 527 00:24:01,633 --> 00:24:04,873 And one of her favorite things was when people ask me for those, she's 528 00:24:04,873 --> 00:24:08,173 like, I just put random things because it doesn't matter what it is. 529 00:24:08,353 --> 00:24:08,773 Yeah. 530 00:24:08,833 --> 00:24:10,333 You just need to store. 531 00:24:10,633 --> 00:24:10,903 Yeah. 532 00:24:10,903 --> 00:24:11,893 As long as you can remember. 533 00:24:11,893 --> 00:24:17,443 So what I do is I put the, the answers to those in the notes of my, of of Dashlane. 534 00:24:17,533 --> 00:24:17,923 Right. 535 00:24:18,283 --> 00:24:23,203 Um, and, uh, and that way I, I have it because some of them are like. 536 00:24:23,908 --> 00:24:27,538 You know, some of them are case sensitive and you know, all stuff, 537 00:24:27,538 --> 00:24:30,298 so you gotta make sure you store it as the way you put it in there. 538 00:24:30,598 --> 00:24:33,808 But yeah, you could put, you know, you know, mother's maiden name, 539 00:24:34,928 --> 00:24:35,218 Yeah. 540 00:24:35,338 --> 00:24:37,798 like, it doesn't matter what you put as long as you could, as 541 00:24:38,068 --> 00:24:39,178 long as you can put it back. 542 00:24:39,178 --> 00:24:39,508 Yeah. 543 00:24:40,018 --> 00:24:42,358 By the way, that is my mother's maiden name, but 544 00:24:43,228 --> 00:24:45,718 So here's a question just now that you brought it up. 545 00:24:46,378 --> 00:24:46,768 yeah. 546 00:24:46,768 --> 00:24:50,068 think it would be better for you to store those answers to 547 00:24:50,068 --> 00:24:53,578 security questions separately from your Dashlane password manager? 548 00:24:54,988 --> 00:24:56,248 I don't think so. 549 00:24:56,428 --> 00:24:58,288 Um, I, I know what you're thinking. 550 00:24:58,288 --> 00:24:59,248 Single point of failure. 551 00:24:59,248 --> 00:25:01,318 Here's the thing, if gasoline is hacked, I am. 552 00:25:02,113 --> 00:25:02,233 Straight? 553 00:25:02,543 --> 00:25:02,833 Yeah. 554 00:25:03,118 --> 00:25:03,658 Yeah. 555 00:25:03,718 --> 00:25:09,418 Um, and I, I put, um, you, you can make the argument. 556 00:25:09,418 --> 00:25:10,948 I, I do use a different. 557 00:25:11,968 --> 00:25:14,398 OTP, uh, program, right? 558 00:25:14,398 --> 00:25:16,528 I don't, I don't use Dashlane supports. 559 00:25:16,528 --> 00:25:18,178 OTP one time password. 560 00:25:18,838 --> 00:25:23,548 Uh, I, I use a different one of those, but, but to me, it's a very secure 561 00:25:23,548 --> 00:25:25,768 place to store this information. 562 00:25:26,248 --> 00:25:30,688 Um, I see what I, I can see the argument that says if someone gets 563 00:25:30,688 --> 00:25:35,038 my password, they would also have my, if someone gets into Dashlane, 564 00:25:35,248 --> 00:25:37,183 they would also have the word the. 565 00:25:37,798 --> 00:25:39,838 Arguments to my security questions. 566 00:25:40,798 --> 00:25:48,598 Um, this is, this is where security versus no, um, uh, 567 00:25:48,628 --> 00:25:50,518 security versus convenience, right? 568 00:25:51,088 --> 00:25:55,978 We had a great conversation with Mike and I learned a lot on a few episodes 569 00:25:55,978 --> 00:26:00,253 ago about where, where I was able to come up with a good security version. 570 00:26:01,108 --> 00:26:05,458 Security versus convenience Workaround to his suggestions. 571 00:26:05,458 --> 00:26:10,378 Like always do a, a separate browser for whenever you're doing anything that like 572 00:26:10,378 --> 00:26:12,448 really matters, like great squad cast. 573 00:26:12,448 --> 00:26:15,118 If some we're using squad cast to record this, if somebody hacks 574 00:26:15,118 --> 00:26:17,278 squad cast, I couldn't care less. 575 00:26:17,518 --> 00:26:21,298 I would lose like the last couple of recordings. 576 00:26:21,358 --> 00:26:21,778 Right? 577 00:26:21,893 --> 00:26:22,183 Yeah. 578 00:26:22,438 --> 00:26:23,818 it wouldn't be the end of the world. 579 00:26:23,818 --> 00:26:24,148 Right? 580 00:26:24,508 --> 00:26:25,858 Uh, but my bank. 581 00:26:26,398 --> 00:26:29,878 You know, QuickBooks, all these things, I, those need to work. 582 00:26:29,938 --> 00:26:35,548 And so what I came up with was I use a separate browser, not the 583 00:26:35,548 --> 00:26:37,408 one I, I live in Chrome, right? 584 00:26:37,408 --> 00:26:43,978 I don't use Chrome now, based on his, uh, suggestion, I don't use Chrome anything 585 00:26:43,978 --> 00:26:48,388 financial and anything where really important Prasannal information is stored. 586 00:26:48,553 --> 00:26:48,913 Yeah. 587 00:26:49,243 --> 00:26:52,633 So like, if my social security number is there, I'm, this is going. 588 00:26:52,723 --> 00:26:58,813 And then what I did was, um, I, I installed a Chrome 589 00:26:58,813 --> 00:27:02,533 plugin to block those sites. 590 00:27:02,863 --> 00:27:05,743 So that's my, so I created the process. 591 00:27:05,743 --> 00:27:10,993 The process is, um, you know, I'm gonna use this other browser for those. 592 00:27:11,203 --> 00:27:14,293 And I needed to use another browser that was supported by Dashlane. 593 00:27:14,458 --> 00:27:14,848 Yep. 594 00:27:16,003 --> 00:27:17,413 And, um. 595 00:27:18,388 --> 00:27:23,308 I then, uh, installed this plugin that basically if I go to. 596 00:27:24,478 --> 00:27:29,218 Any of the sites that I, that I've need, by the way, it's, it's a lot of sites. 597 00:27:29,218 --> 00:27:33,538 It's like, it's like 30 or 40 sites where I do this kind of stuff. 598 00:27:33,838 --> 00:27:37,948 And, um, I, um, it, it comes up as being blocked. 599 00:27:38,188 --> 00:27:38,518 Right? 600 00:27:38,518 --> 00:27:43,138 So that's, um, and so that's the kind of thing that you can do. 601 00:27:43,258 --> 00:27:43,588 Um. 602 00:27:44,253 --> 00:27:49,353 But I, I can see, I can see a solid argument saying, okay, 603 00:27:49,713 --> 00:27:52,503 if you have security questions, put it in this other thing. 604 00:27:53,433 --> 00:27:54,033 Um, 605 00:27:54,393 --> 00:27:55,593 I can't argue against it. 606 00:27:55,983 --> 00:27:56,973 I can't argue against it. 607 00:27:57,298 --> 00:27:58,768 but you also have to back it up. 608 00:27:58,768 --> 00:27:59,338 You have to make 609 00:27:59,553 --> 00:27:59,943 Yeah. 610 00:28:00,058 --> 00:28:01,918 keeping copies everywhere, right? 611 00:28:01,918 --> 00:28:04,108 You have to secure it, you have to encrypt it all the rest. 612 00:28:04,108 --> 00:28:04,498 And like you 613 00:28:04,638 --> 00:28:07,323 Well, I just download all my passwords and I put it as a, 614 00:28:07,323 --> 00:28:09,008 as a Google spreadsheet, as a. 615 00:28:09,028 --> 00:28:10,498 that's, that's I think the easiest. 616 00:28:10,648 --> 00:28:11,038 Yeah. 617 00:28:12,493 --> 00:28:13,663 Oh yeah, it's a text file. 618 00:28:13,798 --> 00:28:14,128 Yeah. 619 00:28:14,263 --> 00:28:15,733 a text file on my desktop. 620 00:28:16,693 --> 00:28:21,613 Um, so yeah, so the, the social engineering thing is, you know, that 621 00:28:21,613 --> 00:28:26,113 the only protection against social engineering is constant training 622 00:28:26,113 --> 00:28:29,983 and vigilance to, to, to recognize. 623 00:28:30,988 --> 00:28:32,473 For, for, you're right. 624 00:28:32,503 --> 00:28:35,233 'cause that guy should have recognized what was happening. 625 00:28:35,233 --> 00:28:38,353 He should have said, I'm sorry if you're really the bank, let me 626 00:28:38,353 --> 00:28:39,643 call you back at the bank's number. 627 00:28:39,643 --> 00:28:40,633 He should have done that. 628 00:28:40,693 --> 00:28:45,463 He should have recognized this as a po potential social engineering, uh, effort. 629 00:28:45,673 --> 00:28:46,273 exactly. 630 00:28:46,633 --> 00:28:49,808 then, and then immediately shut it down and, and, and called him back. 631 00:28:50,068 --> 00:28:54,553 And the only way, this is where the human is the worst, uh. 632 00:28:55,378 --> 00:28:56,368 It's the weakest link. 633 00:28:56,398 --> 00:28:57,418 You are the weakest link. 634 00:28:57,898 --> 00:29:00,958 So the only protection is you. 635 00:29:01,333 --> 00:29:01,513 yep. 636 00:29:01,873 --> 00:29:07,633 And so you, this is why you need to constantly train, remind 637 00:29:07,633 --> 00:29:10,033 yourself of, of the newest things. 638 00:29:10,213 --> 00:29:13,153 By the way, the latest thing has to do with ai. 639 00:29:13,153 --> 00:29:13,768 You want to talk about that. 640 00:29:14,203 --> 00:29:14,533 Yeah. 641 00:29:14,533 --> 00:29:18,483 So as, yeah, unless you've been living in a rock somewhere, or 642 00:29:18,483 --> 00:29:22,803 a deserted island, one of the things that is happening, right? 643 00:29:22,803 --> 00:29:24,063 AI is everywhere, right? 644 00:29:24,063 --> 00:29:24,663 Everyone uses chat. 645 00:29:24,663 --> 00:29:27,303 GPT, Claude, take your pick, right? 646 00:29:27,303 --> 00:29:27,543 But now. 647 00:29:28,488 --> 00:29:28,848 Huh? 648 00:29:29,688 --> 00:29:29,808 I. 649 00:29:31,788 --> 00:29:32,088 yes. 650 00:29:32,088 --> 00:29:34,308 This podcast is not being generated by ai. 651 00:29:34,338 --> 00:29:34,848 Don't worry. 652 00:29:35,178 --> 00:29:39,918 Um, but one of the things now is before it just used to be like generating 653 00:29:39,918 --> 00:29:44,088 text, but now it's gotten really good with like generating video and audio. 654 00:29:45,348 --> 00:29:49,428 And so it's actually able to replicate people's voices. 655 00:29:49,428 --> 00:29:54,438 So you might get a call, Curtis being like, Hey, it's uh, my 656 00:29:54,438 --> 00:29:56,538 granddaughter that needs help at 657 00:29:56,588 --> 00:29:56,878 Yeah. 658 00:29:56,988 --> 00:30:00,798 and she's been kidnapped, and please pay X amount of dollars in 659 00:30:00,798 --> 00:30:02,118 ransom, otherwise you won't get 660 00:30:02,158 --> 00:30:02,448 Yeah. 661 00:30:02,538 --> 00:30:02,808 or 662 00:30:03,333 --> 00:30:03,843 Yeah. 663 00:30:03,858 --> 00:30:04,098 it is. 664 00:30:04,183 --> 00:30:06,768 Or they went to jail and they need to be bailed out. 665 00:30:06,768 --> 00:30:07,818 Please call this number. 666 00:30:07,818 --> 00:30:12,888 And very, very convincing about the voices because people's voices are out 667 00:30:12,888 --> 00:30:14,508 there, like our voices are out there. 668 00:30:15,063 --> 00:30:16,023 Right, right. 669 00:30:16,203 --> 00:30:18,663 this podcast, on YouTube, et cetera. 670 00:30:18,708 --> 00:30:18,998 Yeah. 671 00:30:19,228 --> 00:30:19,518 Yeah. 672 00:30:19,773 --> 00:30:26,343 people can build a pretty good AI model just based on a short amount of audio. 673 00:30:27,063 --> 00:30:31,023 so that's where if you do get a call sounding like someone, make 674 00:30:31,023 --> 00:30:33,153 sure you have a way to verify that. 675 00:30:34,038 --> 00:30:36,648 Yeah, if they're calling, I mean, my granddaughter calls me and 676 00:30:36,648 --> 00:30:40,248 just wants to chat, talk about the latest episode of Bluey. 677 00:30:40,848 --> 00:30:45,288 Um, but if she calls me and says, I need you to wire this money. 678 00:30:45,888 --> 00:30:48,858 I'm gonna do a little extra authentication. 679 00:30:49,068 --> 00:30:52,368 And the way to do that, by the way, is to discuss something that only 680 00:30:52,368 --> 00:30:53,748 the two of you would actually know, 681 00:30:53,913 --> 00:30:54,213 Yep. 682 00:30:54,978 --> 00:30:56,448 Where did, where did we go? 683 00:30:56,508 --> 00:30:56,958 You know what? 684 00:30:57,048 --> 00:30:58,908 Where did we go for dinner last week? 685 00:30:58,908 --> 00:30:59,868 What did we have? 686 00:31:00,138 --> 00:31:01,068 Something like that 687 00:31:01,473 --> 00:31:04,173 yes, and the key is only the two of you would know. 688 00:31:04,173 --> 00:31:07,773 So if you post on Instagram what you ate to last week, 689 00:31:08,088 --> 00:31:08,298 that would. 690 00:31:08,343 --> 00:31:11,043 that's probably not a good thing to use for verification. 691 00:31:11,868 --> 00:31:14,418 Yeah, you wanna, you wanna, you know what, you know what, 692 00:31:14,418 --> 00:31:15,828 what, what did we talk about? 693 00:31:15,828 --> 00:31:17,718 What did we talk about while we were at dinner? 694 00:31:17,718 --> 00:31:18,138 Right. 695 00:31:18,198 --> 00:31:21,258 Um, you know, I, I, you know, originally I was thinking that you should 696 00:31:21,258 --> 00:31:25,458 have a shared secret, but thi this, this is, this is what you need as a 697 00:31:25,458 --> 00:31:31,908 shared secret if you really are my granddaughter, um, you know this thing. 698 00:31:32,118 --> 00:31:32,538 Right? 699 00:31:32,718 --> 00:31:35,868 Um, what was the last topic that we talked about When we spoke, right? 700 00:31:35,928 --> 00:31:36,258 And in 701 00:31:36,498 --> 00:31:36,708 Yeah. 702 00:31:36,948 --> 00:31:41,658 think that having a last topic or something like that, like more contextual 703 00:31:41,988 --> 00:31:45,708 makes sense because who's gonna remember a password that you agreed upon like 704 00:31:45,708 --> 00:31:47,838 six years ago or 10 years ago, right? 705 00:31:48,588 --> 00:31:48,918 one's gonna 706 00:31:48,993 --> 00:31:49,443 Yeah. 707 00:31:49,488 --> 00:31:51,888 versus like, Hey, we just had this conversation. 708 00:31:51,888 --> 00:31:52,758 What did we talk about? 709 00:31:53,463 --> 00:31:55,773 You know, we used to, we used to have a DT. 710 00:31:56,133 --> 00:31:56,313 Right? 711 00:31:56,883 --> 00:31:59,733 Um, and there was a password that you could call. 712 00:31:59,748 --> 00:32:00,318 and 713 00:32:00,363 --> 00:32:02,493 Um, yeah, you know what, you know what ours was? 714 00:32:03,813 --> 00:32:04,688 It was, it was lumpia. 715 00:32:05,198 --> 00:32:05,418 Oh 716 00:32:08,718 --> 00:32:09,918 Um, anyway. 717 00:32:09,918 --> 00:32:10,098 Yeah. 718 00:32:10,098 --> 00:32:13,368 So, uh, and by the way, use the same uh, thing we just said. 719 00:32:13,368 --> 00:32:17,238 You, if, if it really is your granddaughter, call them back on 720 00:32:17,238 --> 00:32:19,458 your granddaughter's phone right now. 721 00:32:19,458 --> 00:32:22,878 There's still a possibility that still might not be your granddaughter, right? 722 00:32:22,878 --> 00:32:23,448 Because of. 723 00:32:23,838 --> 00:32:24,588 Things Right. 724 00:32:24,593 --> 00:32:27,138 But the, the chances are, again, good, better, best. 725 00:32:27,138 --> 00:32:27,408 Right. 726 00:32:27,423 --> 00:32:27,753 Yeah. 727 00:32:27,888 --> 00:32:31,728 then, so call 'em back on the number and then, and if they don't answer Hmm. 728 00:32:32,088 --> 00:32:32,478 Right. 729 00:32:32,898 --> 00:32:39,378 Um, and then have that conversation, uh, of, you know, some shared secret 730 00:32:39,378 --> 00:32:40,728 that only the two of you would know. 731 00:32:40,998 --> 00:32:41,358 Yeah. 732 00:32:42,378 --> 00:32:45,048 Um, in my case, it, yeah, go ahead. 733 00:32:45,153 --> 00:32:45,423 yeah. 734 00:32:45,543 --> 00:32:50,343 And it is interesting because I don't think people realize the amount of 735 00:32:50,343 --> 00:32:52,923 information they post online about 736 00:32:53,028 --> 00:32:53,418 Yeah. 737 00:32:54,393 --> 00:32:54,873 Yeah. 738 00:32:55,113 --> 00:32:55,503 Yeah. 739 00:32:55,743 --> 00:32:55,983 right. 740 00:32:56,043 --> 00:32:57,033 Well, that, that's another, 741 00:32:57,033 --> 00:32:57,453 against you. 742 00:32:58,173 --> 00:33:00,183 that's another thing that happens here. 743 00:33:00,243 --> 00:33:01,893 Uh, what, what is it called? 744 00:33:01,923 --> 00:33:04,863 Um, yeah. 745 00:33:05,043 --> 00:33:11,403 So that's a great, uh, um, segue into another topic to talk about, which 746 00:33:11,403 --> 00:33:17,773 is, uh, osint, O-S-I-N-T, which is short for open source intelligence. 747 00:33:18,463 --> 00:33:24,493 And, um, Elliot does that when he, when he, once he hacks the guy, that's 748 00:33:24,493 --> 00:33:26,053 how he figures out all the stuff. 749 00:33:26,053 --> 00:33:28,843 Like he's looking at a, he's looking at all his Facebook profiles and stuff. 750 00:33:28,848 --> 00:33:28,858 Yeah. 751 00:33:29,248 --> 00:33:29,578 Yeah. 752 00:33:29,818 --> 00:33:34,438 And sometimes people will be like, Hey, where did this thing come from? 753 00:33:34,498 --> 00:33:37,888 Um, as an example, Hey, here's a license plate. 754 00:33:38,278 --> 00:33:40,198 Can you help me figure out what it is? 755 00:33:40,198 --> 00:33:44,008 Or here's like a random broken taillight of a car that did a hit and run, 756 00:33:44,878 --> 00:33:45,328 Yeah. 757 00:33:45,538 --> 00:33:47,638 of scour the internet looking for things, right? 758 00:33:47,638 --> 00:33:50,008 That's all open source intelligence. 759 00:33:50,368 --> 00:33:50,818 Yeah. 760 00:33:51,058 --> 00:33:51,688 That they're using 761 00:33:51,748 --> 00:33:51,808 Yeah. 762 00:33:52,078 --> 00:33:52,288 this. 763 00:33:52,288 --> 00:33:55,318 It might be Wikipedia, it might be Google, it might be looking at 764 00:33:55,318 --> 00:33:58,708 Google Maps to figure out like, okay, where did the sunlight hit 765 00:33:58,708 --> 00:33:59,938 in this certain point of time? 766 00:33:59,938 --> 00:34:01,498 And let me figure out where exactly 767 00:34:01,543 --> 00:34:03,523 There's a guy, have you seen the guy? 768 00:34:03,643 --> 00:34:08,383 There's a guy that you could send him a picture and within five minutes he will 769 00:34:08,383 --> 00:34:09,823 tell you where that picture was taken. 770 00:34:10,033 --> 00:34:11,863 It's really kind of freaky. 771 00:34:11,863 --> 00:34:12,913 There's a YouTube channel. 772 00:34:13,543 --> 00:34:16,543 Um, and, and he does it really, really quickly. 773 00:34:16,753 --> 00:34:18,068 Um, the, um. 774 00:34:19,828 --> 00:34:25,468 I saw Kevin Mitnick, uh, speak once, uh, which is, you know, at one time 775 00:34:25,468 --> 00:34:27,268 he's a, he was an ethical hacker. 776 00:34:27,268 --> 00:34:28,138 He is no longer with us. 777 00:34:28,678 --> 00:34:31,468 Um, and again, every time I mention his name, I gotta say, 778 00:34:31,528 --> 00:34:33,328 not everybody is a fan of Kevin. 779 00:34:33,478 --> 00:34:37,018 There's some stuff there, but I did see this, um. 780 00:34:37,678 --> 00:34:42,298 This presentation where he talked about using, again, this is 781 00:34:42,298 --> 00:34:46,918 again, a combination of social engineering and, uh, OSINT, right? 782 00:34:47,098 --> 00:34:50,008 So he finds, he, he, he wants to target a person. 783 00:34:50,368 --> 00:34:54,928 He finds their, their LinkedIn profile, and then he sends them an 784 00:34:54,928 --> 00:35:00,598 invitation to be a speaker at his event, which he has created a, um. 785 00:35:01,168 --> 00:35:03,328 Uh, you know, a webpage, four and everything, right? 786 00:35:03,748 --> 00:35:09,118 And, um, and he sends him a Zoom and, and he, he goes, we want to do a, um, 787 00:35:09,448 --> 00:35:09,808 intro 788 00:35:09,988 --> 00:35:13,108 an interview of you prior to the thing. 789 00:35:13,108 --> 00:35:14,818 We just want, we just wanna close the deal. 790 00:35:15,118 --> 00:35:20,428 And he sends him a, a link, supposedly to a Zoom invite. 791 00:35:21,058 --> 00:35:24,868 The link is actually a, uh, a thing that downloads. 792 00:35:25,468 --> 00:35:28,978 Malware and then opens up zoom, right? 793 00:35:29,008 --> 00:35:32,668 So unless you're really paying close attention, you don't notice that you 794 00:35:32,668 --> 00:35:37,828 just downloaded this, this malware, and, um, and basically you then just gave 795 00:35:37,828 --> 00:35:39,538 them your keys to the kingdom, right? 796 00:35:40,258 --> 00:35:45,358 Um, and that's where again, that's, um, that's another topic that we'll cover in 797 00:35:45,358 --> 00:35:48,898 a later episode about the phishing, right? 798 00:35:49,288 --> 00:35:52,198 But, but osint is a big thing. 799 00:35:52,288 --> 00:35:54,028 Um, and of course, um. 800 00:35:54,248 --> 00:35:55,208 Social engineering. 801 00:35:55,748 --> 00:36:01,838 And then, um, let's also talk about just the fact we talk about it a lot. 802 00:36:02,858 --> 00:36:04,748 Uh, the concept of an insider threat 803 00:36:04,948 --> 00:36:05,488 Mm-hmm. 804 00:36:05,918 --> 00:36:11,228 Elliot is going to be, you know, a really big insider threat. 805 00:36:11,953 --> 00:36:12,553 Oh yeah. 806 00:36:13,573 --> 00:36:16,693 in cybersecurity for the client, right? 807 00:36:16,723 --> 00:36:19,483 Who you are thinking about now attacking 808 00:36:20,623 --> 00:36:20,843 Yes. 809 00:36:20,953 --> 00:36:21,163 know, 810 00:36:21,308 --> 00:36:21,728 Yeah. 811 00:36:22,213 --> 00:36:24,763 you know all their weaknesses, you know all their infrastructure, 812 00:36:24,763 --> 00:36:25,723 you know, all the personnel. 813 00:36:27,043 --> 00:36:32,503 Yeah, and you, you know, a pretty good story about, uh, an 814 00:36:32,503 --> 00:36:35,488 insider threat situation from a cybersecurity firm as well. 815 00:36:35,893 --> 00:36:40,783 Yeah, there was recently, a, probably a couple weeks ago, uh, an article came 816 00:36:40,783 --> 00:36:45,703 out where the DOJ was investigating an employee of a cybersecurity company 817 00:36:46,273 --> 00:36:49,243 who basically was supposed to be ne. 818 00:36:49,738 --> 00:36:54,268 Helping, uh, victims negotiate with ransomware companies and 819 00:36:54,358 --> 00:36:54,718 Yeah. 820 00:36:54,868 --> 00:36:59,008 up and running, and literally what the person did instead was he would negotiate 821 00:36:59,008 --> 00:37:03,028 for lower rates with the ransomware companies and then take the difference and 822 00:37:03,238 --> 00:37:05,098 Take a, yeah, take a cut. 823 00:37:05,193 --> 00:37:05,483 Yeah. 824 00:37:05,998 --> 00:37:06,388 Yeah. 825 00:37:06,688 --> 00:37:08,848 And, um, yeah, not good. 826 00:37:08,848 --> 00:37:09,118 Not good. 827 00:37:09,793 --> 00:37:10,483 exactly. 828 00:37:10,873 --> 00:37:11,383 The person 829 00:37:11,518 --> 00:37:11,728 Um, 830 00:37:11,743 --> 00:37:15,163 trust, it's like your doctor who's like, oh, by the way, when 831 00:37:15,163 --> 00:37:17,683 I'm doing surgery, I'm gonna like take out part of your kidney. 832 00:37:17,683 --> 00:37:19,213 Or take out your kidney at the same time. 833 00:37:19,663 --> 00:37:19,933 Right? 834 00:37:19,933 --> 00:37:20,143 You 835 00:37:20,338 --> 00:37:21,148 And yeah. 836 00:37:21,193 --> 00:37:23,353 do what they're trained to do, right. 837 00:37:24,028 --> 00:37:28,168 Yeah, and I, and I, without going into detail, I had an incident like this, not, 838 00:37:28,168 --> 00:37:33,208 not in cybersecurity, but I had this, I had an incident in my business life where 839 00:37:33,208 --> 00:37:38,878 I had a person that I had entrusted a lot of stuff and I did not verify, and 840 00:37:38,878 --> 00:37:41,128 honestly, it ruined my life for a while. 841 00:37:41,128 --> 00:37:41,278 And so 842 00:37:41,333 --> 00:37:41,623 Yeah. 843 00:37:42,688 --> 00:37:44,188 you, you, um. 844 00:37:44,728 --> 00:37:49,408 The, this is where we want to talk about the concept of trust, but verify, right. 845 00:37:49,498 --> 00:37:52,318 The, the great, so two things, trust, but verify. 846 00:37:52,318 --> 00:37:59,068 And then also, um, the concept of, uh, least privilege and, you know, 847 00:37:59,278 --> 00:38:02,818 bumpers and all of, all of the things that the, the more that a person 848 00:38:02,818 --> 00:38:07,678 is entrusted with, the more they should be monitored by someone else, 849 00:38:07,783 --> 00:38:08,113 yeah, 850 00:38:08,158 --> 00:38:08,548 right? 851 00:38:08,728 --> 00:38:09,058 Yeah. 852 00:38:09,493 --> 00:38:09,793 yeah. 853 00:38:10,003 --> 00:38:11,833 Because otherwise you don't know what they're doing. 854 00:38:11,953 --> 00:38:13,513 But here's the challenge though, Curtis, right? 855 00:38:13,723 --> 00:38:15,583 So as an example, you hired the doctor 856 00:38:16,348 --> 00:38:16,768 Yeah, 857 00:38:16,873 --> 00:38:17,473 a surgery. 858 00:38:18,283 --> 00:38:19,363 not an expert in that. 859 00:38:19,603 --> 00:38:22,693 You don't know what's gonna be happening, right? 860 00:38:23,308 --> 00:38:23,878 And you 861 00:38:23,878 --> 00:38:28,258 is, this is, this is why you get a second opinion, right? 862 00:38:28,288 --> 00:38:28,768 Yeah. 863 00:38:28,828 --> 00:38:29,308 Yeah. 864 00:38:29,908 --> 00:38:32,458 Um, I, I think, I think, um. 865 00:38:34,228 --> 00:38:38,398 The, I I, I'm not sure if that's a good analogy for this world, but 866 00:38:38,428 --> 00:38:39,748 I mean, you should, you should. 867 00:38:39,988 --> 00:38:45,988 But in the case of like, it's just a matter of like, have other things, other 868 00:38:45,988 --> 00:38:52,288 people that can verify, you know, again, the more you, the more you entrust a, 869 00:38:52,288 --> 00:38:56,938 a group, a company, a person with, the more you need to at least occasionally be 870 00:38:56,998 --> 00:38:58,678 looking around to see what they're up to. 871 00:38:59,078 --> 00:39:00,388 Yeah, I agree with that. 872 00:39:00,418 --> 00:39:05,038 And it might be as simple as logging reviewing the logs to make sure, 873 00:39:05,038 --> 00:39:06,478 okay, what actually did happen? 874 00:39:06,478 --> 00:39:08,278 Does it align with what they said they're doing? 875 00:39:08,278 --> 00:39:12,058 Or hey, setting alarms for things they shouldn't be doing. 876 00:39:12,748 --> 00:39:13,678 Right, right. 877 00:39:14,008 --> 00:39:14,398 Yeah. 878 00:39:14,458 --> 00:39:15,298 Honey pots, 879 00:39:15,418 --> 00:39:15,538 Yeah. 880 00:39:15,988 --> 00:39:17,728 uh, you wanna talk about what a honey pot is? 881 00:39:17,953 --> 00:39:23,953 Yeah, so honeypot is basically, you can think of it as physical world. 882 00:39:23,983 --> 00:39:27,043 You have honey in a pot and it's supposed to attract bees, 883 00:39:27,213 --> 00:39:27,633 Mm-hmm. 884 00:39:28,393 --> 00:39:33,163 And so a honey, a pot is basically you put out something that looks like 885 00:39:33,163 --> 00:39:36,133 a normal device, but you're putting additional logging and monitoring. 886 00:39:36,133 --> 00:39:39,823 And the goal is to have bad actors target that. 887 00:39:39,823 --> 00:39:43,483 So you can detect when someone is in your network, in your infrastructure, or 888 00:39:43,483 --> 00:39:44,743 doing something they shouldn't be doing. 889 00:39:45,898 --> 00:39:46,198 Yeah. 890 00:39:46,198 --> 00:39:50,278 And, and a really important element of a honeypot, uh, is 891 00:39:50,278 --> 00:39:51,958 that it has no other purpose. 892 00:39:52,678 --> 00:39:54,718 No one should ever be logging into it. 893 00:39:55,888 --> 00:39:59,728 If anyone ever logs into it, it should set off the CLS on alert 894 00:39:59,938 --> 00:40:00,268 Yep. 895 00:40:00,808 --> 00:40:01,918 uh, it's time to look. 896 00:40:02,068 --> 00:40:05,668 I first learned about honeypots reading the Cuckoo's Egg, which we've talked 897 00:40:05,668 --> 00:40:09,148 about before, but if you've never read The Cuckoo's Egg, go read it. 898 00:40:09,658 --> 00:40:11,218 It's a short read, right? 899 00:40:11,218 --> 00:40:13,078 It's a pretty, pretty short read. 900 00:40:13,408 --> 00:40:19,258 And it's a true story back from the early days of, of, uh, you know, computing 901 00:40:19,618 --> 00:40:26,758 where, um, a guy uncovers a. Like a couple of, like a 3 cent accounting error. 902 00:40:27,358 --> 00:40:27,868 Right. 903 00:40:28,003 --> 00:40:28,223 Yep. 904 00:40:28,228 --> 00:40:32,338 And he ends up uncovering, you know, a cybersecurity ring and, and it's 905 00:40:32,338 --> 00:40:36,778 fascinating the way, so, you know, the cis admin is the hero in the story. 906 00:40:37,138 --> 00:40:41,488 Uh, cliff Sto is the guy's name and, uh, it's a great, it's a great book. 907 00:40:41,488 --> 00:40:42,928 And, and then he has honeypots. 908 00:40:42,958 --> 00:40:44,518 That's where I first learned about honeypots. 909 00:40:44,518 --> 00:40:44,758 Yeah. 910 00:40:45,598 --> 00:40:48,748 Um, and then finally our, our favorite topic. 911 00:40:49,648 --> 00:40:50,338 Backups. 912 00:40:50,908 --> 00:40:55,048 So I was so excited to see that, that they discussed that, that 913 00:40:55,048 --> 00:40:56,998 they were using Steel Mountain. 914 00:40:59,038 --> 00:41:01,588 I mean, this is where I was like, okay, alright. 915 00:41:01,588 --> 00:41:06,238 Iron Mountain facilities are generally like, the more branding you see of 916 00:41:06,238 --> 00:41:09,328 Iron Mountain, the less it has anything to do with storing anybody's media. 917 00:41:09,328 --> 00:41:12,868 Like one of the things I learned was when you see Iron Mountain trucks, 918 00:41:13,048 --> 00:41:14,728 those do not have backups in them. 919 00:41:15,028 --> 00:41:15,703 Those have paper. 920 00:41:16,498 --> 00:41:16,888 Shredding, 921 00:41:17,008 --> 00:41:17,308 Yeah. 922 00:41:17,368 --> 00:41:17,578 Yeah. 923 00:41:17,578 --> 00:41:18,508 The shredding services. 924 00:41:18,508 --> 00:41:18,748 Yeah. 925 00:41:19,138 --> 00:41:19,348 Yeah. 926 00:41:19,348 --> 00:41:24,268 Um, and, um, because they, they, they know this problem, right? 927 00:41:24,448 --> 00:41:27,838 There is, there is some element, or there is some value in 928 00:41:27,838 --> 00:41:29,218 security by obscurity, right. 929 00:41:29,608 --> 00:41:33,688 Um, not publishing what's, I mean, maybe you can figure it out, but I'm thinking 930 00:41:33,688 --> 00:41:36,928 that I, that Iron Mountain probably and other media storage facilities. 931 00:41:37,723 --> 00:41:41,023 Probably use lots of LLCs and things like that to, to rent 932 00:41:41,053 --> 00:41:45,733 buildings so that they can have that stuff, um, easily not detected. 933 00:41:46,123 --> 00:41:49,693 Uh, and then the vehicles that are going to and from of them, you know, 934 00:41:49,693 --> 00:41:55,813 I'm wondering if you're a determined hacker really wanting to target 935 00:41:55,813 --> 00:41:57,163 Iron Mountain or something like it. 936 00:41:57,523 --> 00:41:59,173 Maybe you could eventually figure it out. 937 00:41:59,173 --> 00:42:03,883 But again, it's um, you know, you follow the, you follow the guy, right? 938 00:42:04,303 --> 00:42:05,503 Where's, where's the guy going? 939 00:42:05,593 --> 00:42:05,713 Right. 940 00:42:05,998 --> 00:42:10,408 sign up for an Iron Mountain account and ship a tape and just put an air tag in it. 941 00:42:12,958 --> 00:42:13,738 Just saying 942 00:42:15,478 --> 00:42:18,208 That's just so wrong that it's so easy to do that. 943 00:42:18,268 --> 00:42:18,748 Right. 944 00:42:18,778 --> 00:42:19,618 saying that's 945 00:42:19,888 --> 00:42:20,668 You're just saying. 946 00:42:21,028 --> 00:42:24,328 But yeah, that is, that would definitely find a Iron Mountain 947 00:42:24,328 --> 00:42:27,208 storage facility and might not find the one you're trying to target. 948 00:42:27,208 --> 00:42:30,508 But, um, yeah, again, I'd go back to Alias. 949 00:42:30,508 --> 00:42:33,208 I remember when she needed to pass a message, she would, um. 950 00:42:33,838 --> 00:42:37,138 Like have a thing and she would like ball up a thing and put it in the trash can. 951 00:42:37,138 --> 00:42:38,668 And then that was how they passed messages. 952 00:42:38,668 --> 00:42:38,908 Yeah. 953 00:42:39,808 --> 00:42:40,318 Anyway. 954 00:42:40,378 --> 00:42:44,068 Um, so enough for, uh, Mr. Robot episode one. 955 00:42:44,488 --> 00:42:45,268 Go watch. 956 00:42:45,568 --> 00:42:46,978 You know, go watch episode two. 957 00:42:46,978 --> 00:42:47,548 Go Refresh. 958 00:42:47,578 --> 00:42:48,598 It's a decent show. 959 00:42:48,598 --> 00:42:49,528 It's a solid show. 960 00:42:49,528 --> 00:42:53,263 It really put, uh, Remy Meek on, on the map and he of course ends up 961 00:42:53,263 --> 00:42:55,363 playing Freddie Mercury in the movie. 962 00:42:55,423 --> 00:43:00,193 Uh, Bohemian Rhapsody an amazing job, uh, doing, uh, Freddie Mercury. 963 00:43:01,273 --> 00:43:03,163 So, um, yeah, go watch it. 964 00:43:03,163 --> 00:43:05,803 And, you know, and, and you, you'll see the same things we 965 00:43:05,803 --> 00:43:06,973 stuff where they get it wrong. 966 00:43:07,003 --> 00:43:10,483 I, you know, but, but by and large, the show does a pretty good 967 00:43:10,483 --> 00:43:12,463 job of, of getting this stuff. 968 00:43:12,463 --> 00:43:13,303 So go watch it. 969 00:43:13,303 --> 00:43:18,463 It's good, you know, and, um, you know, and then we'll talk, we'll talk next week. 970 00:43:18,853 --> 00:43:19,303 Sound good? 971 00:43:19,858 --> 00:43:20,278 sounds 972 00:43:20,488 --> 00:43:20,788 Thanks. 973 00:43:21,328 --> 00:43:21,718 Yeah. 974 00:43:21,928 --> 00:43:22,288 All right. 975 00:43:22,338 --> 00:43:23,568 , Thanks folks for listening. 976 00:43:23,568 --> 00:43:25,638 And uh, that is a wrap. 977 00:43:28,743 --> 00:43:33,423 The backup wrap up is written, recorded, and produced by me w Curtis Preston. 978 00:43:33,993 --> 00:43:38,793 If you need backup or Dr. Consulting content generation or expert witness 979 00:43:38,793 --> 00:43:41,373 work, check out backup central.com. 980 00:43:42,093 --> 00:43:45,213 You can also find links from my O'Reilly Books on the same website. 981 00:43:45,873 --> 00:43:49,863 Remember, this is an independent podcast and any opinions that 982 00:43:49,863 --> 00:43:53,793 you hear are those of the speaker and not necessarily an employer. 983 00:43:54,693 --> 00:43:55,383 Thanks for listening.