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I can hear him screaming about the
conversations we're having about Lindsey

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Clancy right now, and how much we
are absolutely missing the point, and

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that there are healthcare providers
who should lose their licenses.

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There is an absolutely important
conversation we need to have about

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postpartum illnesses, about what support
in the postpartum period actually looks

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like, and about women who are scared to
disclose the extent of their postpartum

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mental illness because they might lose
their children, somebody might judge

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them, somebody might be unkind to them,
somebody might misunderstand, somebody

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might think they're an unfit mother

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Welcome to You're Not Too Much from the
Different Not Broken Network, a podcast

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about how you're not too much, they're not
enough, space expands, so let's fill it.

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It's no surprise to anybody who's
listening that I miss my dad.

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I miss my dad a lot.

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The times that I miss my dad, I
mean, I miss him all the time.

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It's not like there's a minute that
I wake up and I'm like, "I don't miss

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him right now. This is fine." But the
times that I miss him more acutely than

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others are probably not the times that
normal people do, or normal people have,

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like, grief things about their parents.

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And trust me, I get lots of grief from
the parent that I do have, and there

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are lots of other grief things involved.

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But the way that I have felt, heard my
dad's voice screaming in my ear For the

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last couple of weeks, probably longer.

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I mean, it's always in there.

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Like, we were doing a recording this
morning, this is silly, but we were

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doing a recording this morning for our,
one of our other podcasts, You're Not

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In Charge of the Scale, which by the
way, go listen to it, it's amazing.

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And one of the things that came up was
how generations like mine and older were

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always told by our parents that there
are starving children in Africa, so you

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have to eat all your food off your plate.

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The guest, as well as the host,
Stephanie, they were just talking about

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how that was so heavily prevalent in
their homes growing up, and I just

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started laughing because that is not
the message that I got in my home.

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It was similar, but if we left food on
our plate, my dad would say, "You have

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to eat all your food because there are
starving women in Beverly Hills." Those

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are the things that I hear in my head
when we talk about parental messaging.

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Also, any time something's going wrong
or I'm having a bad day, I hear my

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dad's voice saying, "No matter how
bad it is, it can always get worse."

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Which is so uplifting.

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So very uplift- anyway,
that was my childhood.

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My dad was also a psychiatrist.

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If you're old here, how
do you not know that?

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I say it like it means something
to my credibility, but I did run

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his practice for, like, 10 years.

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And when my dad made decisions on
patients, he always explained them, even

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to somebody who was non-clinical, meaning
if he decided that somebody needed a

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specific medication, he would tell you the
reason he was giving them the medication.

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For a couple of reasons.

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One, he just liked teaching people,
but two, like, there is a reality

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where you're gonna have to answer
questions from a patient, and you should

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know what the thought process was.

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He would document it, he would
explain it, and he really liked

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talking about what he did.

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And so the arsenal of unusable information
that I have about psychiatry is huge.

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Unusable because I'm not a psychiatrist
and I don't have a DEA number,

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and I can't prescribe medication.

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You know, it'd be kind of illegal
if I tried, so I'm not going to.

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But, like, it's all up there, and it
leads to kind of interesting situations

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when you see things like what's
happening in our current, it's not pop

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culture, in our current news cycle.

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But my dad was not only a psychiatrist,
but he was a forensic psychiatrist,

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and that meant that he worked at the
intersection of medicine and the law.

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So he was not a lawyer, but he had
extensive legal training about how

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healthcare and the decisions that
people make as a result of their medical

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conditions or the healthcare they receive
can impact their decision-making, or

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impact the legal system in some way.

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And he used to testify
in cases all the time.

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He Knew a bunch of serial killers.

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Not as friends, but he had lots of really
good stories about serial killers, always

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de-identified, but still pretty cool.

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And like, I got to meet a couple.

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Like, we had some really interesting
people come in and out of our office.

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Like, I've talked to a lot of
people in shackles, a lot, and not

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because it's my personal hobby.

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I've been to a lot of prisons.

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I've talked to a lot of prison guards.

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I've never been in trouble, but I've
got lots of experience in how to move

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through a prison because when you
work in forensics, that's what you do.

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Sometimes you get called to
a jail in the middle of the

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day on a Saturday, and you go.

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Some prisons will let you bring
in support staff, some will not.

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Most do not let you bring in your phones.

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So I remember the last time I
think he worked in a prison, it was

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actually not a prison, it was a jail,
it was a reception center locally.

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So every single person who went to
jail in Orange County would go through

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what's called the reception center and
get all of their assessments and be

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held there before they got transferred
to whatever place they were going to.

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And you weren't allowed to bring in
your phones, and I think this was before

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iPhones, so this would've been, like,
maybe flip phone territory, but he had

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an iPod, and he loved having an iPod.

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But he wasn't allowed to bring in his
iPod because it's technology, and you

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weren't allowed to sneak in technology.

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And so this man, he was
already past retirement age.

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Like, he worked a long time.

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He was already past retirement age.

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He went on eBay and purchased himself
a watch with a hidden MP3 player, so

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that when he got checked by the guards
when he was walking into work every

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day, they would just look at his watch
and be like, "Oh, that's a watch But

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he had headphones in his pocket, and
he could plug them into his watch and

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listen to his music, because he didn't
like to go anywhere without his iPod.

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Anyway, that was what my dad was like.

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But there is a world where, and
this wouldn't have happened 'cause

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he was never in Massachusetts, or
not for longer than a, a visit.

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But there's a world where if this were 10
or 15 years ago, my dad is the guy that

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would've been called to testify or to
give expert information on somebody like

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Lindsay Clancy, and he did many times.

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And I sat in countless
depositions with him.

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There would be paperwork he needed.

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There would be files that he needed,
and we always had to provide them.

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I've been sworn in by many a,
a court reporter for just being

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support staff in one of those things.

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He did work on a lot of really
high-profile cases, and the reason that

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matters is I know his work so well,
and I know the work we did together so

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well, that I can hear him screaming.

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And yes, I understand the deep irony that
the voice in my head is a psychiatrist.

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I get that.

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I see it.

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But I can hear him screaming about
the conversations we're having about

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Lindsay Clancy right now, and how much
we are absolutely missing the point,

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and how this is not about postpartum
anything, and that there are healthcare

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providers who should lose their licenses.

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The conversation itself is not wrong.

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It is correct.

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We should be having conversations
about postpartum depression.

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We should be having conversations
about postpartum mental illness.

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We absolutely should be.

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That is not a question.

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We know that postpartum women are prone
to specific mental illnesses, that they

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can be hard to predict, that they can make
it very hard to bond with your children.

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They can make reasonable people
do what appear to be some

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really unreasonable things.

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They make women feel worthless.

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They make them feel incapable.

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They make them feel all sorts of
awful things about themselves, awful

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things about themselves that are
not true, awful things about their

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children that are not true, and Most
of the time women get through it.

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Whether it's with intervention
or not, they get through it.

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That does not mean they
should be white-knuckling it

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through the postpartum period.

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We should make better help available
for women 100% without question.

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The Lindsay Clancy outcome is a rare but
possible outcome of a postpartum illness.

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And I wanna say, I am not a clinician.

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I have been deeply exposed to a lot of
mental health conditions by nature of

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working in this field, listening to my
dad say a lot of things, running his

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practice for as long as I did, seeing
the ins and outs of a field that as

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much as it is finally getting some
additional, it's not recognition, but

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consideration for being real, and that
the things that happen to people are real.

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Mental illness is real,
let's put it that way.

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It's still deeply misunderstood.

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It's still deeply oversimplified.

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But I'm not a clinician.

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I did not go to medical school.

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I am not a psychiatrist.

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I cannot prescribe medications.

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So what I am saying is the
byproduct of lots of exposure

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that I cannot call expertise,
and I wanna be clear about that.

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But my dad is not here to talk
for himself, and I am sharing

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with you what I know he would say.

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I know there is an absolutely important
conversation we need to have about

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postpartum illnesses, about what support
in the postpartum period actually looks

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like, and about women who are scared to
disclose the extent of their postpartum

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mental illness because they might lose
their children, somebody might judge

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them, somebody might be unkind to them,
somebody might misunderstand, somebody

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might think they're an unfit mother.

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There's also a ton of guilt that
comes along with that that keeps

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people from disclosing all of that.

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Lindsay Clancy had a postpartum
mental illness, no question Lindsay

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Clancy was also diagnosed as bipolar.

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That came out in trial.

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Lindsay Clancy was not psychotic that
we know of until a maybe well-meaning,

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but deeply incorrect psychiatrist
gave her medications that are

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known, documented, and established
to make bipolar people worse.

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That is what happened.

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Her mental illness did not make
her psychotic, her medication did.

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And if you change the conversation from,
"This woman just got acutely psychotic

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because she's mentally ill," to, "A
psychotic episode was precipitated

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by a psychiatrist who treated her
poorly, who gave her bad healthcare,"

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this is a very different conversation.

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This is not about some inept mother who
just couldn't handle her mental health.

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This is about a clinician who
should lose their license.

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I, as a layperson, acutely know that
antidepressants make bipolar people worse.

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I've seen it happen.

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We ran our practice for about 10 years,
and by that, I was there for 10 years.

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My dad was on year 55 by the time he died.

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He had some experience that I did not.

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30%, please hear me when I say that,
it's so fricking important, 30% of our

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patient population were people who came
to us after having been seen by their GP,

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their other psychiatrist, an emergency
room, or a hospital, who were put on

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a medication because they said they
were depressed and got acutely worse.

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Sometimes that meant they were suicidal.

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Sometimes that meant that they
were having a manic episode.

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Sometimes that meant they had racing
thoughts and couldn't sit still.

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Sometimes it made them
completely sleepless.

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Sometimes it did all of those things.

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And what people don't understand about
bipolar illness, especially when you have

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this whole other side of precipitation
by medication, meaning we took a disease

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that was already uncomfortable and hard
to manage, and we made it exponentially

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worse by introducing a medication
that was incorrect for the patient.

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We're not talking about necessarily
somebody who gets really depressed and

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suicidal and stays that way for days and
days at a time, though that can happen.

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A bipolar depression can last five
minutes, and in that five minutes, this is

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something my dad used to say all the time,
I'm literally regurgitating his words.

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In that five minutes, if you're next
to an open window on a 44th floor, you

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could go out the window, not because you
were suicidal five minutes before, but

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because that's how bipolar illness works.

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Is it likely that somebody who just
has a bipolar or just has a regular

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depression, a postpartum depression,
would hurt their children in 30 minutes

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or an hour while their partner is gone?

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Is it likely?

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No.

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Is it possible?

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Yes.

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But somebody who is not only
bipolar but made worse by their

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medication, pushed into an acute
mania, yes, that is very possible.

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It is not only very possible,
the things that happen to

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cause that are well-documented.

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The conversation Between postpartum
disease and shit ass medical

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care needs to be separated.

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Because there are people suffering
from postpartum illness who should

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not be lumped in with somebody
who killed her three children.

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I don't say that with a hint of judgment
toward Lindsay Clancy, I really don't.

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The conversation about postpartum
illness is different than the

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conversation about Lindsay Clancy.

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Lindsay Clancy was made worse by
medication, and that is not to say

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that all medication makes you worse,
and it is not to say that you should

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not seek medication when you are sick.

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I am not dissuading that at all.

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I am saying that she got shit ass medical
care, that she deserved a doctor who

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knew what the fuck they were doing.

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That's the conversation.

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And again, I am speaking out of turn
here to give you the things that

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my dad would've said from beyond
the grave that I heard him say so

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many times, that I've literally
watched him testify to in the past.

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Did she do it?

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Absolutely.

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That sucks.

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I'm devastated for everybody in her life,
including her, that the outcome of that

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shit ass medical care is what it was.

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But what she did could happen to
anybody who receives the same type of

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bad medical care that she received.

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Because the point of a bipolar illness
is that it's unpredictable, and if you

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make somebody manic and acutely psychotic
by prescribing the wrong medications…

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This woman was complaining of poor sleep.

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She was complaining of increased anxiety.

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She was complaining of
worsening intrusive thoughts.

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She was complaining about racing thoughts.

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All of those were so pervasive.

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And somebody did try her on a
mood stabilizer, but sometimes

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you have to try several.

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Like, the answer was not
increase in antidepressant.

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That was never the answer.

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I just wanna make sure we're
having the right conversation.

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The conversation about postpartum
illness was absolutely the correct

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conversation to be had until she got
sidled with a physician who didn't

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know what the hell they were doing.

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She deserved better medical care.

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Her children deserved for her
to have better medical care.

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My dad's talking from beyond the grave.

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If anybody wants to know anything about,
like, what it was like to be alive

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when, like, The Beatles were hitting
the shore, I can probably try to access

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that, too, but I don't Those are other
things that are in his expertise.

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But I am fully talking
out of turn here, right?

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I have exposure, I have kind
of peripheral alignment, but I

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am not the expert in the room.

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But I've been in the room with the
expert a whole lot, and I can hear

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his voice very loudly saying that
our medical system screwed up badly,

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and three children died as a result.

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And it is going to affect women with
postpartum illness, affect the judgment

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that women feel, affect the stigma that
they face, affect their willingness

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to disclose what they're feeling.

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It's going to affect that
for a very long time.

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And that is one of the many things in this
situation that sucks, but it does suck.

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That's my rant from Beyond the Grave.