Hi, my name is Jeannie Dill Swabodyny, and I have written two children's picture books.

The first one is Annie's Fourth of July, and the most recent one is Grandma's Mystery Surprise Box.

And I want to thank you, Papa Rick, for having me on today.

I really appreciate it.

No problem.

Thanks, G, for appearing on the Adventures in the Hard of Children's Book Authors podcast.

As Jeanne has mentioned, she's written two books, and today we're going to primarily focus on Grandma's Mystery Surprise Box.

And I look forward to the conversation for sure.

Before we get into the details behind your book, I'd like to talk to you about what being a children's book author means to you.

And if you could take us on kind of a journey, think about what it meant to you when you wrote your first book and now what it means to you as now you've become a veteran or a seasoned children's book author.

I'll have to back up a little bit.

I was in education for 50 years.

I was a classroom teacher, special ed teacher, and my last position was an elementary principal.

Okay, so you started when you were very young.

Yes.

A baby.

A baby.

There we go.

Yeah.

And.

And I loved every position.

I really did.

I love children.

I love being schools.

I love seeing those light bulbs go on.

I love reading books to children and seeing their excitement.

So I retired three years ago and I thought, now what am I going to do?

I'm very active.

And I thought, I need something else to.

And the first year, my husband was pretty sick and in the hospital a lot, so that took the first year.

And then the second year things were better and I thought I just was searching for things and then up popped on my Facebook, Miriam Laundrie advertisement on how to write a children's picture book.

And I thought, now that's something that maybe I would really like to do because I've always been interested in writing and I've always been really interested in just word choices.

And like, when I am listening to someone speak, I don't know, it's just kind of weird.

But sometimes they just use a word that is spot on to describe whatever it is.

And I just get all excited about, wow, that was like the perfect word to use.

So anyway, I thought, I love children and I love sharing books.

And so I thought I would check into the Miriam Laundrie program.

And so I did.

And I don't know if we'll talk about that more later, but I can't say enough positive things.

About that program, it really taught me how to write a children's picture book, because I did not.

I didn't have a clue about how to write a children's picture book.

And her program was step by step, and her team were just fabulous.

The editor on that team helped me so much, shifted the way my story was going or helped me shift, taught me that in a children's picture book, and this is applicable for those who haven't written one yet, you need to have a problem, and that problem has to emerge pretty quickly in the book.

And you should have the children solve that problem, not the adult in the story.

So when I submitted my first edit or story for edit, the adult was solving more of the problem.

And so my editor guided me and said, no, Jeannie.

So anyway, yeah, I just learned so.

Much from that program that drew out the children's book author in you.

Yes, yes, it did.

Yes, it did.

Terrific.

And so think about your first book and now think about your second book.

And how has being a children's book author changed for you now that you've got multiple titles at this point?

Not very much, to tell you the truth, because my first book was published in June of 2024 and then my second one, July of 2025.

So it's just been a year in between.

And I guess the.

One of the differences is my confidence level as writing a second book, it's given me more confidence that, yes, I can do this.

And the second book I self published and didn't go with Miriam Laundrie program.

Before we jump into that, can you tell us what was the inspiration behind your second book, Grandma's Mystery Surprise.

Tell us the inspiration.

I was playing with my grandchildren, and they're young, they're 10, nine, seven, and three.

And I was playing with them, and they live two and a half hours from me.

And I drive up in the morning and I usually drive back home at night.

And then I usually don't see them for a week, maybe two weeks.

And I was just thinking about how fortunate I am that I get to see my grandkids a lot.

Whereas my mom lived far away, she didn't get to see my daughters very regularly.

And I don't know, something in my brain clicked and thought, I want to write a story about how a grandma maybe can stay connected with her grandkids even though she lives far away.

Then I was thinking, we're fortunate to live in a time where you can facetime and a grandma that lives far away can see their grandkids through FaceTiming.

So that kind of was one piece and then the other piece was.

My grandkids love surprises, as little children love surprises.

So I usually take them up, some little surprise of some sort.

That's the cool thing about the having a two and a half hour drive is there is some distance.

So like you said, you can't go regularly.

There's almost an anticipation.

Exactly, exactly.

They really look forward to my visits and.

Which is wonderful.

And I look forward to seeing them, but.

So I usually take up a surprise.

And then I just got thinking about it'd be cool if grandma came for a visit and then they could work out she would leave a surprise there.

They would open it up when she was back home, she would FaceTime them, they would guess the surprises, et cetera, et cetera, and just have this neat kind of thing going between.

So were you living through your mother's eyes?

I was, yes.

Yeah, I was.

Because I felt that she only got to see my daughters, her granddaughters, a couple times a year.

Yeah.

So I just thought, and your mother's still with us, Right.

She's going to be 100 in three months.

Oh, my goodness.

Congratulations to your mother.

That is terrific.

That's.

So were you able to share with her the inspiration that she gave you?

Yeah.

And how.

What was her reaction?

Oh, she has dementia and memory loss.

I was sharing this.

Just so emotional and everything.

And she was like, oh, yeah, I knew.

I know all about that.

I know all about that book.

It was just.

I don't know, her memory and her reasoning is just.

It's still nice that you got to go around.

It was so nice to be able to.

And I dedicated the book to her.

That was one of the dedications.

That is.

Yeah, that's true.

Because she tried really hard to still stay connected with the girls, even though she lived far away.

But anyway, that's the inspiration behind Grandma's mystery surprise box I'm interested in now.

That you've got your second book.

Now, it's only been just over a year from the first book to your second book, but I'm curious in your approach on how you thought of your book.

Do you have a book business plan?

Oh, Papa Rick, that is a good question.

So I jotted down when I was first in Miriam's program, I knew that I wanted to do school presentations just because I love being in elementary school.

I feel very comfortable in elementary schools around children.

So I knew that I wanted to do that and then go to libraries and of course, using Amazon, hopefully to that People would buy books from that.

Donating books is in my marketing plan.

However, I can donate books going to local bookstores.

I've tried that.

I've done that.

That's fun.

Some are more receptive than others.

A friend of mine has a boutique downtown and she has me come when I write a new book.

And that's really fun, all of those things.

But I must say marketing is probably my weakest link to becoming a successful author.

I would rather just give my books away and not have anybody pay for them.

But that doesn't work.

I guess it could work if you're independently wealthy and I just back up where you go.

Yeah, I know.

To be real honest, that is a piece I'm trying to figure out.

Last year I was very fortunate.

I did get a number of school visits lined up in my area and because I was an elementary principal in this area for 20 years, people know me and so they did schedule me.

But now this year I'm having a little bit more trouble getting bookings.

Funding is a little bit less in.

Schools generally with the school visits.

I noticed on your website you have three different charges.

Yes, that's very important.

And do you also do up a pre booking form prior to doing.

Okay, talk to us about that whole idea because I know some people are uncomfortable with charging for school visits, but at the end of the day it can be an important meth.

Tell us a little bit about that and your pre booking form.

Yes, I just know when I was a principal, some years we had more funding available to have presentations and some years we would be emphasizing literacy, some years math, sometimes behavior, whatever.

I talked to another author who does a lot of school visits and she gave me some really helpful tips.

But I wanted to offer a full day visit would be this amount and then a half day visit would be this amount.

And then maybe they just want one presentation, maybe one in the evening with parents it would be this amount.

And, and that's worked out well because then schools have a choice and kind of what fits in with their resources.

And I do always say, because I'm that way, if funding is a challenge, I will work with you.

And.

But you know what?

I haven't had any schools really that said they'll, they've said, oh no, we've got funding for this, we have funding for that.

So the pre order, it's just a form that we specify my name, the school, the date, the time and the location.

I like to know where the location where I'll be presenting.

And I put on There that I will donate two hardcover books to the school library.

I also bring lesson plans that the teachers can choose to use or not.

And those are like with grandma's mystery surprise box.

If you were to create your own mystery surprise box, what would you include in your box or who would you want to give it to?

And those kinds of things.

It's writing prompts.

And the writing prompts when you have your pre book.

So your pre booking form, I just try to understand that a little bit more.

So how far in advance does that go out and generally how does it work?

Like how do the children bring money or a check or how does that work?

Okay, I guess that pre order or that pre booking thing, that's like the agreement between the school and me kind of thing.

Then as far as the children ordering the book.

So usually I get my checks from the school and they sometimes they use their Title 1 funds or parent group funds or some initiative fund that they've gotten from the state department.

But I get those checks from the school.

Then I also send out a pre order form for my book.

If anybody would want to order a book.

I send that a contact person in the school and, and they collect those and, and then they let me know the number how many books I should bring.

I personalize them like to Sarah and then a little statement and then.

Nice.

Yeah, so it, that's worked out really well.

Now I will say that just so people might know.

I, I don't get a ton of book orders that way.

I would say for a school the size of maybe 400 kids, maybe I would get 12 book orders roughly.

But I don't know, maybe I can change the way I do things a little bit to get more book orders.

I don't know, but haven't gotten a ton yet.

I would say from some's better than that.

No, but it's good.

Thank you for sharing that because again, I as aspiring book authors are thinking, okay, how do I best utilize a school visit?

So most of your revenue comes from your charge for the visit versus the presentation.

Yes.

Versus number of books you sell.

Okay.

Yes.

So talk to us a little bit about.

I notice you have three formats.

You have a softcover, a hardcover and ebook.

Talk to us a little bit about how are you using each one of those formats.

I guess for me personally I haven't used the ebook very much other than those.

So when people go on Amazon they can choose to order whichever book they want.

The hardcover book, the soft cover book, or the other book, the digital book.

Yeah, the ebook and the price is different.

The hardcover book, of course, costs a little bit more because the printing costs are more for the hardcover.

So really.

So when I present in my presentations, I project up on slides and Google Docs and read the story that way.

But I'll show them the hardcover and talk a little bit about what's the difference between a hardcover and a soft cover.

A teaching moment there with kids.

And.

And.

But you know what?

I find that most families order the soft cover now.

I find that most grandparents order the hardcover.

I don't know if they just.

Budgets, right.

Yeah, they have a different budget and they probably experience their own children ripping pages or whatever.

Anyway.

But it's interesting, on Amazon, the hardcover book is not.

You order the hardcover book.

Right.

On Amazon, but actually Ingram Sparks is the one that publishes and makes that hardcover.

Right.

Because Amazon doesn't print a hardcover book.

No, Ingram Sparks does and Amazon doesn't.

Yes.

In essence, you've just set up through Amazon.

Yes, but they.

The distributor or not the distributor, the printer is ingramsparks, who then gets it to Amazon.

Yes.

And they mail it to the person.

Yeah, okay.

Okay.

Yeah.

And it's interesting, though, the ebooks.

I. I don't know.

I.

At first I was thinking, I don't know, I like little kids to have a book in their hands to read an actual book.

Yes.

But then I was talking to a couple of my author friends and they said, yeah, but the world is changing and that kids are really enjoying.

Kids love technology, so why not use it in a positive way and have books on the technology so that they can interact that way?

So I don't know, maybe that is a revenue.

Well, so.

So many kids nowadays have their own iPads.

Oh, yeah, Yeah.

I mean, that's.

You just see the more and more of that happening, for sure.

So it certainly doesn't hurt to have that format available.

No, that's right.

Exactly.

I'm glad it is available.

Yes.

I want to pick up on what you said earlier.

You talked about seeing Miriam Laundrie, and we've talked with several of our children's book authors about Miriam laundrie.

I'd say 15 or 20% of my guests of being published at least their first book through Miriam Laundry.

And so you published Annie's 4th of July, your first book, through Miriam Laundrie, and you said you love the process.

And that's what generally I get.

A lot of people love the process.

And then most of the children's book authors that I talk to, when they go to do their second book.

They do it on their own.

Tell us why you did that and tell us about that journey about doing your second book on your own.

Okay.

So, yes, her program is just a roadmap and she teaches you every step along the way.

It was excellent.

I'm so glad I did it.

But honestly, I couldn't afford to go that route again the second time.

It's expensive.

Money is relative to everybody, right?

You're paying for an education in a way.

Yes, you are.

You are.

And she does a fabulous job of it.

But I thought, if I want to write another book, I'm not going to be able to go that route.

Plus, I was so lucky.

My illustrator, she is also an editor, a book design person.

She knew how to upload it on Amazon.

Illustrator that did your first book through Miriam Laundry.

Yes.

Yes.

Okay, okay.

Yes.

It's the same illustrator.

And quite frankly, she wasn't used to turning over her file to a publisher at the end and she was worried that they might mess up her illustrations or something.

But it worked out just fine.

But what it said to me is, you know what?

I can probably just.

I would love to go with my illustrator and have her give her input.

Because she lives out in Colorado.

She used to teach at a university, children's writing.

Writing for.

To become an author.

And she's joined a lot of different groups that give conferences and workshops for writing.

Yes.

Because I noticed that she has a lot of skills.

A lot of times, you.

I noticed she was not only your illustrator, but she was your cover designer, your book formatter, and your editor, which is incredible.

Incredible.

And you know how I found her?

It was so strange.

I didn't know how to find an illustrator.

And Miriam Laundries said, you gotta find your own.

I googled and I typed in book illustrators near me.

You go restaurants, Italian restaurants near me, or whatever.

You bet.

I put that in and I got five that came up.

I researched their websites and I really liked the one I went with.

And we communicated back and forth.

And then when we did the contract, I noticed she was from Denver, Colorado.

That is stinks away from where I am.

I thought, near me.

Denver, Colorado's near me.

On the Internet.

It's right next door.

Yes.

I just figured it was meant to be.

And we have just worked beautifully together.

I was really excited someone to have.

That many skills because I.

We got lucky too, because we independently published our first and second book.

And what we were lucky to have happen is I found an illustrator.

Our illustrator is in England oh, okay.

And again, one of those go on the Internet and Google, and I wanted to find someone that their illustrations were comparable to what I was looking for.

And that's how I ended up that way.

But I ended up with a website designer who also happened to be a published author.

Oh, wow.

And on top of that, he ended up being our book formatter and our book cover designer.

Wow.

Yeah.

You hit jackpot.

Yeah.

And I'm finding that a lot of times that's what happens is that because of the revenue that some of them generate, they don't make enough money as a, let's say, a website designer.

They take on other skill sets to help offset their income.

And that's why you end up with all these people that have all these skills.

And it helps independent children's book authors like ourselves.

Absolutely.

That's incredible that your illustrator has all those skills.

And didn't she do a good job on.

She's very colorful.

Yes.

And I want to talk to you about that.

I'm always looking at illustration techniques, and one of the things that I really liked in your current book is that she incorporated a map to tell the story.

So was that your idea or her idea?

Her idea.

Yes.

The first time we had to go back to Amazon because the first time that map didn't show up very well on the pages.

Okay.

So she had to do whatever she had to do and darken it a little bit.

And now it's really nice.

Yeah.

And it comes up beautifully on the iPad, too, so good.

Oh, good.

That's good to know.

Yeah.

Good to know for sure.

Yes.

I thought she used.

She did that.

And then that other technique that she used, was it called sepia, where it's just that old?

Yeah.

Like a golden look where you have the tractor.

The old tractor in the field.

Yeah.

So really quite a unique technique because I hadn't seen that before.

Were the characters in the story yourself and your family?

Oh, I guess was the grandma.

It boiled down to me being the grandma because my illustrators needed a picture of a grandma, and I thought, I'm grandma.

I guess I could be.

Absolutely.

So that was.

Now the kids don't look like my grandchildren.

Okay.

Or.

Yeah.

But Annie's fourth of July, they had the same family.

My family of origin had four children in it.

I was the third in the order.

So I wanted to go along with that same family in this story.

And so that's how that happened.

Okay.

Okay.

Yeah.

So, yeah, in your second book, you're.

You're independently published.

Yeah.

Through Amazon.

Through Amazon.

Yeah.

You also downloaded your book files to Ingram Sparks.

Yes, yes.

Yes.

Yeah.

Okay, tell us a little bit about.

I found with your book.

When you were discussing your second book versus your first book, it was the same illustrator, correct?

Correct.

Was there any difference?

Because now you weren't using Miriam Laundrie as like the go to publisher.

Now you're directly working with the illustrator without Miriam Laundrie involved.

Tell us about that experience.

Did you feel any changes?

Was there any difference other than any control?

Yeah, not many.

The second book had more word.

The word count was longer for the second book.

Miriam's program likes to hold you pretty close to that.

1,000 words less.

The second book just.

I don't know if it had 1200 or 1300 words.

So I didn't have to worry as much about that.

And my illustrator said, she's knowledgeable.

And she said, no, Jeannie, that should be okay.

That was one difference I noticed.

And then just the process to get it onto Amazon was actually a little faster being self published because in Miriam's program, you had to turn your file on for them to review like three different times because they want your book to be perfect because their name's on it.

And so the end process took a little bit longer for Miriam's program than because we'd been working with the book for a long time and we knew it was the way we wanted it.

So that process actually was faster.

And I can understand that for sure because going through a third party versus now, you're like the general manager of your own book publishing business.

Let's talk about your website development.

Did you start your website prior to your book or after you wrote your first book or tell us about that.

Process that happened in the initial part of being in Miriam Laundrie's program?

Because she said authors need a website and you need to create one.

That was one of our assignments.

I am not good with technology.

I'm not that comfortable with it.

Okay.

I thought to myself, what can I do here?

I can spend hours and hours and hours trying to figure this out, or maybe I can find someone that could help me with that.

And so I live in a town where there are two colleges and I go to a church where the college ministry is really large.

And I thought to myself, I bet there's somebody in that college ministry that would like to make some extra money before Christmas and, you know, give them something on their resume that they started a website for an author.

I reached out to that group leader and he put out the Word.

And I just got a wonderful gal, and she and I work together very well and she created it for me and she still uploads things for me and does things for me.

Yeah.

It's interesting you should say, because that's a great story, because what I did is I did exactly the same thing as you when I was developing our website.

And I have two different websites, but I reached out to a college and I said, can you help me?

And they said, we have one graduate who just started his own company and I think he'd be ideal for you.

And he was one of our best students.

And just so everyone knows, because I've never talked about this before, but reach out to your local colleges and you will be pleasantly surprised.

And a lot of times these students are trying to start their own business, and so they've got really great skills.

They just need some support.

And.

And so you can get them at a relatively inexpensive cost, but get excellent work.

Yes.

And that is spot on.

That was my experience, too.

Yeah.

So what has changed for you from when you did your initial website to now where your website is now?

How much time are you engaged with it?

And because one thing I noticed is you don't have your book covers on your website.

Yes, yes.

You know what?

I don't engage with it all that.

Okay.

I thought.

I thought I would, but I don't.

And I just don't enjoy it that much.

But also, I've tracked.

She and I have kind of looked to see how much are people actually looking at my website.

Not that much now.

That might be because I don't update it and put a lot of new stuff on.

But even at the beginning when I was updating it frequently, I just didn't get much traffic on it.

And so I thought, I just really don't want to spend my time, though.

Yeah, no.

And that's what you have to make the decision to do.

Like some people do a blog.

Yes.

Some people are quite engaged with their websites with video and stuff like that.

So, yeah, it really is entirely up to what your comfort level is.

And then again, if you've got somebody downloading the files and everything, you know, that comes at a cost.

So, you know, is the cost offsetting it through the revenue you're generating through your books?

You just never know.

Have you ever talked to, just for aspiring authors about the importance when.

If they use Amazon to do their print on demand, the importance of picking three categories for their book?

I haven't got right into that.

Thank you for sharing that.

That was a real valuable piece.

I thought of Miriam Laundrie's program because everybody that has written and been a part of her program has earned bestseller on Amazon status because of those three categories that you pick.

That's right.

And so tell us a bit about that yourselves.

I'm sure that your three categories that you chose for fourth of July is different from your current book.

Yes.

So, yeah, talk to us about that.

Okay, so the.

For Annie's fourth of July, basically, Miriam Laundrie's staff picked the category and they monitor what's popular on Amazon, what's being used, what not what the categories are.

They pick the three categories.

And what did they pick for you?

Because that's definitely the first one.

The one that was a bestseller for almost a year was Books on Independence Day.

So that makes sense because there weren't.

There aren't that many books written about the fourth of July.

Okay.

So that.

That earned bestseller status for about a year.

Then the other ones, I don't even remember one was something about family, fun together or something like that.

I don't exactly remember what the three were.

The second book, I had to spend a lot of time researching the categories, which isn't all that easy on Amazon.

You have to go in and find where they list the categories.

And the categories are always changing.

But you do have to use a category that matches up with your book.

You can't choose some category that's not used very often or your book.

It has to relate to your book.

You bet.

So the one that.

That worked for me the best was the performing arts circus category.

I got bestseller status because of my ranking of the book in that category.

And then I used multi generational as a category.

That didn't do well because I guess a lot of books are multi generational.

And so that didn't do real well.

I did one, something about history.

Using history in your books.

Because of the dust storm in my second book that.

I mean, that was a true factor.

And how did that work?

That was pretty good.

That was pretty good.

Not as good as the performing arts circus one.

Okay.

But that was pretty good.

Now I've gone back in and changed your.

Any of the.

I did go back in and change 1.

The multi generational one, I think I changed it to.

It's some category that the family working together in the home, or at least the word home is in the category.

And so I used that one.

And then my ratings were better in that category.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And that is nice.

You can go back in and change your Your category.

And that's.

And that's good to know.

I appreciate you mentioning that because you're the first person that's actually brought it up.

And yet it is important.

And it's.

Yeah.

I think that if you want to get Amazon bestseller, that it's a important piece.

Right.

And you can.

There are things on the web you can just research Amazon's categories, and Amazon puts out a book, how to publish on Amazon.

They have a chapter in there about the categories.

And I watch some YouTubes too, about picking categories.

There are a lot of sources that authors can check into for that.

Absolutely.

When I think of Grandma's mystery surprise box and.

And because I've read your book, I know the story, the motivation, and we talked about your mother.

Is there a specific person or event that you said, this is my idea.

The title I have for my book was what was the motivation to get you thinking.

Because you went from Annie's Fourth of July, which is very specific, to something that's a little different.

A little different?

Yes.

Actually, it was my illustrator slash editor.

The first time I wrote the story, I had these surprise boxes, and I just put little trinkets in them, like candy, and just things that I thought the grandkids would like.

And they were to guess those, and we would interact over FaceTime.

And my editor said, that's okay, but she said the children are all that involved.

Grandma puts the trinkets in the box, and then they just have to guess it.

They don't have to do much on their own.

So she asked me, is there.

Do you have any family stories that would be meaningful?

And I thought, yeah, my popcorn story.

Which is a great story.

It's a great story.

Yeah, it's a great story.

And what a fun way to pass family history down to young people, hopefully in a way that they'll remember because they had fun with it.

Because I love when you had them close their eyes and you put popcorn in their mouth.

And really, that's very memorable.

Popcorn is something we all love.

The movies are something we all love.

The circus is something we all love.

The only problem with it, Rick, what's that?

Now each time I go up to see my grandkids, they expect me to bring the grandparents in my surprise box with.

I can guess.

That's terrific.

You know what the thing about grandchildren is?

They get older quick.

Yeah.

So you might think, oh, my goodness.

But I'll tell you what, give it five or 10 years, and then you're hoping that somewhere down the road, another generation adopts your idea.

Yes.

And I.

You know what?

I'm glad you brought up the mystery surprise box, because at the end of the day, it's interesting.

I always talk about character development, and one of the things that I really love about your story is the main character is the mystery surprise box.

And I've never had an inanimate object as the main character.

So tell us about that.

How that whole character development with the mystery surprise box.

I don't even know how.

I think your creative juices just get going.

And I thought the design.

I was looking at the.

You know, I know our listening audience can't see it, but I was looking at even the design.

Was this something that you had in your family or.

No, the illustrator in yourself just came up with the idea.

Yeah, the illustrator and myself just came.

Came up with that.

It's beautiful.

Yeah.

Ready?

I'll show you.

I know you'll be able to see it.

The other people can't.

But just another.

Because in the book, there are three mystery boxes.

Yes.

And so my grandkids and I just made that.

The COVID of the book.

The illustrator I just came up with.

So nice that you've used an inanimate object to bring the whole story to life.

And it's really the main character in the book.

Yes, it is.

Was any of that based on your own childhood experience in any way?

The mystery box part?

No, not really.

Okay.

Okay.

Yeah.

I'm just trying to think what triggered it or whatever.

And I don't know.

It's just.

I don't know what triggered it.

I just.

I guess myself, I love surprises, and I'm always just taking surprises up to them and seeing their eyes light up.

And that's.

And then.

And I did really, after my illustrator brought that up, I did really want to preserve that story in our family somehow, because it is a unique story.

Now, just another thing is, you know how sometimes on the back of your book you get.

What are they called, reviews or endorsements?

Yes.

I watched a webinar or something.

They said, think big.

So I thought big.

And I reached out to Ringling Brothers to see if they would just maybe write a quick little thing on the back.

Oh, I'm glad we were able to help your family or whatever.

And so we communicated back and forth numerous times and.

Oh, they did allow me, because I didn't know if I had to have permission to use their name.

Actual name.

Right.

Okay.

So they did give me permission to do that.

And.

And then it didn't work out for them to write Something on the back of the book.

They just said, all we want is.

Is a copy of the book once you get it done.

That's terrific.

Yeah.

Isn't that fun?

You know what?

You never know where it goes.

I know.

You never know.

You never know.

One of the things which I thought was quite unique.

On your website, you identify five themes for your book.

Normally, I talk to people.

They have one theme or whatever.

Walk us through why you chose the five themes for your book.

It's a marketing thing because I think when schools are looking at having an author come, usually they have some initiative going on that year that they are wanting an author to reinforce or teach something about.

So I didn't want just to have one theme.

I wanted to have several themes in case it matched up with what they were highlighting for the year.

And you said you developed a little bit of a curriculum.

Yeah, a little lesson plan.

So was it.

Is it tied into your themes, the curriculum?

I haven't.

I haven't gotten that far yet.

Okay.

I've done just a writing sample.

Like, what would you do if you created your own mystery box and used that kind of that.

That theme of imagination, using your imagination?

That's a theme book.

Other than that, I'd have.

For.

If we had a session with parents and children, I think that would be a great springboard for them to write their own family story together, something that happened in their family that they could write a little mini book together as parents and kids, like, for a title 1.

A family involvement night or something.

So I'm hoping to do that this year.

And I put that out, too.

Obviously, when you go and do your book readings at the school, and I know our listeners won't be able to see, but you dress up like a ring master.

The ringmaster.

Yes.

That must be fun.

When you go into the schools, you got your talk.

It's so fun.

It's so fun.

And then I usually try to give the kids.

I found these little circus erasers, and so I give those that.

And popcorn's a wonderful thing to give to the kids if the janitors are okay with.

Absolutely.

And it ties so, so great with your theme, for sure.

Yes.

Yeah.

So that's fun, too.

Now that you've written your second book, tell us a little bit about your writing process, how it maybe has evolved from Annie's fourth of July to now Grandma's mystery surprise box.

Tell us how your writing process changed, or did it stay the same?

No, it changed.

It became more focused.

And I know the elements of the story, Like I said, you have to have a problem that has to be solved and you have to have dialog and strong characters.

And then at the end, another thing I learned that I should have just realized, but once she said it, it was like, oh, yeah, the story has to end in a pleasing way.

It doesn't have to be necessarily raha whoopee.

But it has to end in a.

With a pleasing ending.

And so in Annie's 4th of July, Annie goes to sleep that night thinking of next year and the fun she's going to have at the next year's fourth of July.

And in Annie's mystery surprise box, they're having playing circus with Grandma.

She comes to the door.

So it ends happy.

My writing now, it's much more focused.

Yes.

For me, I don't spend time every day writing.

I know they recommend authors do that.

I do better with chunks of time because.

Have you got something that you're working on now?

Yes.

I have another book in the Annie's Family line that I'm working on, and it's more a book about books.

Bullying.

When I was a principal, oh, my goodness.

I just saw how kids would give their power away so quickly, so easily to some bully, and it would just make me so mad.

I'm just like, no, don't let them.

Don't let them take your power away from you.

So that's what my next book is about.

Don't give up your power or your sparkle or something like that.

I don't know.

I haven't really titled it yet, but that's what I'm working on now.

Nice.

I want to talk a little bit about success measurement.

It's probably still fresh, but you wrote your first book.

You must have had an expectation of success.

I'm curious how you viewed your success for your first book, Annie's Fourth of July.

And what were you expecting for success now that you've got your second book out?

Tell us the difference.

Is there a difference?

I was hoping that both of them would be Amazon bestsellers, and that did happen.

So both of them did that.

I was hoping that I could get into schools and just share the joy of stories with the kids, and I was able to do that with Annie's fourth of July.

I have a few bookings scheduled now with schools.

I'm hoping to get more.

So I guess it's to be determined with the second one.

Okay.

But also with the second one success, me being okay.

I did record that family story, and that family story will go to future generations.

So That's a measure of success for me in that story.

I always say to people, the nice thing about children's books is they're evergreen, they're forever.

That's forever.

Yeah.

What a wonderful thing to be able to have our words down for kids forever.

So is there a difference in how you view the role of writing now in your life versus seeing the ad with Miriam Laundrie on Facebook and then saying, okay, I think I'm going to write a children's picture book?

And now that you've done two, how has the role of writing changed in your life?

It's become more important and more satisfying, I would say.

Yeah, just satisfying in what way?

Just in my inner soul.

Not monetarily, necessarily, but just inner satisfaction that, like I said before, I'm fascinated with picking right words to describe whatever.

And sometimes I'll be writing and I'll just something.

I think that was just the perfect word to use.

And I just feel good about that.

Excellent.

And what about your grandchildren?

As they've seen, because they.

Like you said, they're relatively still young.

So here we go.

All of a sudden, Grandma is a children's book author, and now she's a multiple children's book author.

Tell us about when you go visit your grandchildren.

What is that being like?

Oh, my goodness.

I don't know if it's a good thing or a bad thing, Rick.

But my oldest granddaughter, she loves to write and she loves to illustrate.

And so she, of course, she wants to grow up and be an author.

And she is.

She's writing all sorts of stories now and gonna submit a couple to different children's contests.

And I don't know what I've done to her.

Oh, just relax and enjoy your childhood.

It's interesting you should say that, Jeanne, because I went to my youngest grandson's school and I did a book reading.

Now, the kids were a little bit older and.

But what was interesting is how many questions I got about being an illustrator.

And when I just said to the kids, it's not only children's picture books, but if you think about illustrations, you think of a Walt Disney, you think of Pixar and all of that, I said, it's incredible nowadays.

And then you yourself can be an illustrator and an author, and once you learn the skills of doing your own publishing, it's incredible what you could do yourself.

I know.

Yeah.

That is very cool.

So you think you gave her a little nudge?

The first book I gave her the story.

She actually illustrated this whole book on her own.

Wow.

Oh, she's just like, amazing.

Here they're getting the snow cones.

This was Annie's 4th of July, and so what?

We had so much fun doing this together.

It's nice that you have provided that direction for her and that inspiration.

Yeah, it's been fun.

She'll send me things on Google Docs now to kind of ask my opinions, and it is so fun to have that connection.

That's terrific.

Talking about inspiring people.

So what advice would you give aspiring children book authors?

I would say advice, research or learn the components of a children's book so that you won't be spinning your wheels or whatever.

You do have to have a little knowledge base and practice writing practice.

Get feedback from others, whether they are editors or family members, friends.

I think the feedback that we get from others is just invaluable.

And I would say follow your passion and follow your dreams.

No matter what the story you're telling, no one has heard it told in the way that you're going to tell it, because there's a lot of authors that write about stars, whatever, but everybody tells it differently and everybody has their own story to tell, and they're all very valuable.

Great insight.

And that's what I found.

I've interviewed over 60 children's book authors now, and that's what I'm finding is that all the stories are different, even to your point.

Even the niche, whatever your niche is, that's what happens is it's a.

It's just amazing.

And a lot of times, like your second book, it's based on some event or something that really happened and then.

Yes, absolutely.

And then you, as a children's book author, you just get to use your literary license and away you go.

Yes, that's right.

Encouragement for readers.

I always say this towards the end, but why should readers read you and purchase your book?

For the children, I think the both books are entertaining and I think for children's picture books, meaning ages 4 through 8 years old, basically, so you can stretch those end points.

They should all be entertained.

And my books, I think, are really entertaining.

Kids seem to really enjoy them and they can relate to them because the first book, oh, everybody's been to a parade and gotten snow cones and they just want to tell me all sorts of things.

And the second book, Circuses.

A lot of kids have been to circuses or something like a circus, or they've all eaten popcorn and.

But anyway, they should buy the book, read the book, because it is entertaining.

And as an author, one of my goals is to Just promote the love of stories and the love of reading and children.

Also, my books, they do have lessons tied in them, so I think parents should buy the books to read to their kids for the lesson aspects that are in both books.

I'm glad you said that, because that's the whole thing about it, is that you had this family story, but we all have family stories.

Yes.

If when my mom passed away, my dad asked me what could we do?

And we actually went on ancestry and.

And did that whole part of our family history.

Nice.

And.

And it made for interesting reading for us and.

Right.

And then you find out you kind.

Of tracked your legacy.

We did.

We went back on my mom's side and found out that our family used to own the land that the Twin towers were on.

Oh, my.

You're kidding.

No, no.

Wow.

Canada is amazing.

There you go.

Absolutely.

And I live in Canada.

I'm Canadian, but half of my roots are from the American side, so it's quite interesting.

Wow.

That is very interesting.

Very.

So.

And that's what you find out.

But it's nice.

Yes.

I haven't written a story on that, but it's nice that, you know, the people to reflect on their own family history and see if they can bring that to life through storytelling.

Yes, absolutely.

Yeah.

That's great.

That's great.

We have several things in our lives that kind of parallel this conversation.

Yes.

Yes.

Jeannie, I'm interested in final thoughts.

Is there something that he said?

Geez, I wish Rick would have asked me that.

Is there something you'd like to share?

Whether it's to readers or aspiring authors or to the audience in general, Is there some final thoughts you'd like to share?

I don't know if anybody else has said this, but being a children's picture book author is very satisfying.

You know that first time you get to hold your book when it's printed, see your name on it, see the colors, see the characters come to life.

Because when you're writing the book, you see the pictures that the illustrator sends you, but they're piecemeal.

And I don't know, it's just so satisfying when you get that book.

So true.

Because if it wasn't for my oldest granddaughter, we wrote our first book, the Adventures of Caboose the Rocky Mountain Bear, and she's the co author.

Yes.

I love that.

We wrote our second book with my oldest granddaughter and my middle granddaughter.

You think, oh, my goodness.

Yeah.

But.

So it's being fun.

But one of the.

One of the neat things that you might want to be able to do is that you have your oldest granddaughter interested, is maybe she helps you cool off through your next book.

I would love that.

I would love that.

That's so much fun.

And the other thing that I've done with my grandchildren is we've actually written 38 stories in our series of the Adventures of Caboose, the Milwaukee Mountain Bear.

And about half of them we've turned into audiobooks.

So because as like you said before, it's expensive to bring a book to market, a print book to market, but doing the audiobooks, if you've written the story, it doesn't.

Anyone who has an iPhone can record a children's book.

Yes.

Oh, that's a fabulous idea.

Yeah.

Thank you.

So, yeah, a lot of fun.

So there you go.

The next time you get together with your grandchildren, create a couple of audiobooks.

There we go.

Oh, Katie, I want to thank you so much for being a guest on the Adventures in the Heart of Children's Book Authors podcast.

Your generosity of time and insights, you share so many great little things, such as the Amazon bestseller categories.

That's something we've never talked about before and people should do research into that.

We promise our audience that we're going to provide links to Jeanne's social media and her website.

And if you enjoyed this episode, please hit the subscribe button to listen to our future episodes.

And feel free to share this episode with anyone inspired by or who enjoys hearing about Jeanne and her children's book, Grandma's Mystery Surprise Box.

So thank you, Jeanne.

Thank you, thank you for supporting and helping new authors and children's authors.

It takes a lot of time and energy on your part, so thank you.