going to roll.

We're just going to

roll with this, but

let's go, let's go.

No intro.

Let's go.

No formal, whatever.

Is that because

you don't have

let's just do this.

If we

or

I've got one thing

though, Haym.

I do want to point

out that Erin is a

superstar interior

designer who we

work with on a

number of projects.

Who makes our

lives a lot easier.

I just want to go

on the record of

saying that Aaron is

one of my favorite

people to work with.

I have to say that

you two are both

up there with my

favourite people

to work with too.

I've got a couple of

jobs on the go with

Maddy at the moment,

but I've got jobs in

construction with, with

Hamish obviously, but

nothing kind of in the.

Pipeline for like

design stages.

And so I'm just like,

Oh, I don't have

anything to work on

with hangar research

at the minute.

Who do you prefer

working with,

Matt or Haymish?

Who do I prefer?

Oh, um, no, I'm

just kidding.

Not going to

answer that.

Nah, we get

this on record.

I think you're both

fabulous people

and I really enjoy

working with you

You told me you love

me more than Hamish.

I did not

you told me you love

me more than that.

look, I've known

Hamish for longer

than I've known Matt.

I'll just go

fuck myself.

Hey, Aaron, thanks

for coming on today.

anyone here follows

either myself or Matt

on Instagram, they're

going to be very

well versed on the

incredible interiors

that Erin creates.

, she certainly is

the icing on the

cake for, the

projects that we do.

And, um, our

most successful

projects have always

been with Erin.

Now, Erin, you're

an interior designer

and I just want to

know, it's more than

just selecting paint

colors, isn't it?

percent.

mean, that's obviously

a part of it, but if I

have to break down sort

of like a percentage

component of, of where

that actually takes

place in the whole

scheme of things, it's

really the smallest

part of what I do.

One of the main things

that's really difficult

about interior design

as an industry is

that it's so full of

misinformation about

what it is that we do.

I think that also is

perpetrated by the

industry itself, which

is really confusing

for a lot of people.

And so what I mean

by that is because

it's not a regulated

industry, I guess

there's a lot of

people sort of that

can just say, yes, I'm

an interior designer.

And yes, they might,

you know, one day

finish a corporate job.

And then on Monday

decide to open

their interior

design business.

that business to them

from a full service

point of view might be

picking paint colors

and doing all the.

Selections for a build

and that's all well

and good, but it does

create a lot of issues.

I guess for people

understanding really

the crux of what

it is that we do.

I think understanding

what I do.

Obviously, I can only

speak to my process,

but it's more in

depth, technical.

It's really about

spatial planning,

looking at floor plans

from a really technical

point of view, getting

an understanding of

how my clients live,,

their routines, the

makeup of their family

unit, if they've got

pets, all of that sort

of stuff so that I can

then sort of take all

that information to

look at a floor plan,

make tweaks accordingly

so that it suits

them and how they.

Live in their space.

Now, that's obviously

a lot more or a lot

higher level of detail

than someone who's

just going, okay, what

colors would you like

to put in your home?

And here's some tiles

and here's some paint

colors and whatnot.

That's obviously very

much an important

part of it too,

Is that like an

interior stylist?

Is that what

you would say?

Um, no, I would call

that interior colour

consulting almost,

I suppose, but

decorating definitely.

I think the difference,

like, if we want

to break down the

three different types

kind of that come

under this umbrella.

You've got your

interior designers,

which I've obviously

touched on is a

much more sort of

specialized and

technical field.

And with that,

we're working , in

collaboration with

builders, building

designers, architects,

as part of that sort

of pre construction

package to get a

project to site.

Interior decorators

are probably more,

like, they're already

sort of working with

an existing space, and

it wouldn't really be

necessarily touching

on anything structural

with that, but they

might advise on

paint colours, window

furnishings, sort of do

the more fluffy stuff

of interior, , spaces,

which is obviously

incredibly important.

But it's more of

your, your furniture

procurement, and

decorating items, , to

make a space feel

comfy and cozy.

So it's like the soft

finishes, not the

hard finishes, what,

like interior design,

is, relating to.

And then styling

is just a whole

other thing.

, if you look at styling

as a, discipline,

I suppose it would

be more in line

with editorial

photoshoots thing.

, but they can also, , do

interior decorating

and help people to

style their homes too.

, so I guess styling

is a big umbrella.

There's a lot of

different things under

styling, but I guess

for me, I'm not an

interior decorator

and I'm definitely

not a stylist.

And I think it's

important to know

where your skills lie.

So going back to

the start then, you

obviously started your

education somewhere

with interior design.

What was your

education?

Like, what did you do

to get your knowledge

base before you started

working in the field?

I did a two

year diploma.

So that's, I guess

because I came into it

a little bit later than

in my later twenties,

, doing a bachelor at

that point wasn't

really feasible for me.

, so I guess to get

into interior design,

initially I started

to do a few, , short

courses just to get a

bit of a, a taste for

it, to see what it is.

Cause it's something

completely different

to what my life leading

up to that point.

Like I never

thought I'd be doing

interior design

What were you doing

before interior design?

I actually don't know

Oh, So I guess

all through school,

very like academic,

, very much like

a science focus.

I always sort of

thought that I would

do something in the

health field or law.

, I went to, the

university of

Melbourne and did a

bachelor of science

majoring in psychology

and behavioral

neuroscience,

, But then I sort of

determined that being

a psychologist, , or

pursuing that

pathway was not

really something

that I wanted to do.

So I guess I was

really lost for a

long time in my early

twenties with where I

was going to end up.

I tried a few different

things, occupational

therapy that didn't

quite work out for me.

I worked in a law

firm, , for probably

6 or 7 years all up,

, over that time, , and

very much saw that

being a paralegal or

a law clerk could have

been something that

I would have pursued,

But it wasn't filling

my cup, I guess.

And, , for a lot

of it, it was, you

know, to do with

family law and that's

obviously quite taxing.

, so when I had the

option to design

a kitchen or deal

with people who are

divorcing, I kind of

thought the kitchen

fills my cup a little

more than that.

So I,

just sending them into

divorce, aren't you?

Oh, man, it can

be challenging.

, and I definitely try

to get both, both

sides on board with

the decision making.

Definitely.

you think your past

experience in, um,

psychology and I

guess understanding

how people tick on

a, , intellectual level

allows you to better

understand and ask the

right questions in when

you are, trying to work

out how your clients

will live in the house.

yeah, definitely.

I mean, I guess at

the end of the day,

like psychology is

understanding like

people's behaviors.

And interior design is

sort of interpreting

people's behaviors and

then shaping a space

that works with that.

So having that

sort of base level

knowledge around.

People, behavior.

How colors even,

like, impact mood

and things like that.

All of that sort of

stuff is a really

nice tie into to

interior design.

So it's kind of,

it's been nice to

make sense of that

stepping stone, though.

It's not like entirely

related and it

certainly wouldn't

be the ordinary

pathway that people

would, , take.

it's nice to see that

there is kind of this

thread that flows

through that makes it

all sort of make sense.

But yeah, definitely.

I want to go back

to explain how

you differentiate

yourself from say an

interior decorator

or colour consultant.

So your process,

and I know it is

quite lengthy and

quite, Um, because

we worked on a few

projects together, I

can, I just want to

explain what you do

so we can actually

put credit to what you

do as a job because I

personally think, and

I only learned this

last year, that I feel

like real interior

designers, there's not

much respect for them

in the industry and

it needs to be a lot,

there needs to be a lot

more respect to them.

Thank you.

Yeah, I guess what

differentiates what

I do from others

guess I say this not

to talk down on what

anyone else is doing

because obviously

there's a place for

what they, you know,

are providing, , and

it's a really

delicate subject.

no.

no.

We need, we need it.

We need some clickbait

for our reels, Erin.

So just go nuts.

So Aaron Tarras,

tell us why you hate

interior stylists.

don't, I, no, I

really highly respect

interior stars.

, What I don't

like is interior

decorators saying

that what they're

doing is interior

design when it's

Procuring furniture

and as a builder,

and you'll testify as

Hamish, is when you get

what Erin would produce

or some of the other

interior designers we

work with, and then

you get that type of

interior decorator who

are calling themselves

a designer, what we

have across our desks,

they are so far apart

that I physically can't

build off what I'm

being provided from

some people, where with

your stuff, everything

is listed, everything

is tagged, it is very

clear, it is very

black and white, and

I know exactly what is

happening in the build.

we spend a lot of time

in pre-construction,

and it's really

important for us to

make sure that our

documentation is

really dialed in.

The documentation is

our source of truth.

So if there's ever

any, I guess, concerns

or queries about

something that's

happened on site,

we're always referring

to the documentation

and, you know, hand

on heart, the stuff

that you produce

Aaron is next level.

Like we know that

every single thing has

been thought through.

And I've actually

brought up a couple

of testimonials here

that, I just pulled

off your Instagram page

and I'm going to read

one and it does have

sanctum homes in that

was gonna say is

it is it from you

He's just

written it right

I

really feels like

we don't need to

sweat over any of

the details of our

projects because you

and the Sanctum teams

are just so thorough.

We really

appreciate it.

And I know from our

side, from Sanctum

home side, when we

pick up your set of

documentation, it's

everything is there.

Like it is just,

it's there.

It's clear.

The correct

dimensions are there.

And I hear what you're

saying with say, a

stylist, a stylist

is not doing that.

I don't think we

should be talking

about stylists though

because that is

totally something

different I guess where

the blurred line is

probably more toward

around the decorator

and designer because

they are fundamentally

two very different

industries, but that's,

that can be tricky.

I've also got another,

experience from one of

our current projects.

And, um, I know that,

these particular

clients almost don't

make, want to make

any decisions without

first consulting you.

Actually to the point

where I do believe,

That you are going

shopping with Courtney,

when they move in So

she makes the right

decisions when she's

buying her Tables and

chairs and cushions

and all that kind of

stuff you find that

that's something

that happens on a

lot of your projects

I have found

particularly on

projects where you guys

are involved, , I guess

because you've really

vetted the clients to

make sure that they're

a really good fit for

you first and foremost,

and then you've

obviously talked to

them and educated them

about how important

it is to have someone

such as myself on the

collaborative team

that fills them with

a lot of confidence

and trust, in the

professionals that

are, you know, working

really hard to get

their project to site.

, And to construct the

project in the most

easy kind of manner.

So, I guess that's

really nice that they,

feel that they want to

check in and don't just

want to like override

or overrule and make

decisions that haven't

been, I guess, checked

and verified past me.

Because I guess with a

lot of things, they're

obviously thinking one

thing, but I'm thinking

about all of the things

and then the flow on

effect that might occur

by one single decision.

So, I know we had one

of those in one of

our early projects,

Ham, uh, which was a

location of a split

system that wasn't

actually run by me.

And I'm like, but we're

doing curtains here.

and we moved it

and that was great.

But I mean, it's

just those sorts of

things, but again, you

know, like I've also

changed my process

to incorporate window

furnishing plans

and things from the

get go as well, just

so we don't have

those, hiccups.

But yeah, I find

that clients, I'm

able to build a real

rapport with them so

that there's a real

trust in the process.

and that's been really

validating, , for me.

I definitely see

that, um,, the clients

that have worked with

you, they definitely

value what you do.

Specifically the one

that we're working

with in Williamstown

at the moment.

I don't know who Shane

calls more, me or you.

yeah, I love his email.

So just like another

question for you.

but question

I have here.

So why can't we just

refer to you as an

interior architect?

Like, how does that,

Oh, because you'd

piss a lot of

architects off.

yeah, but an architect

does everything

from external to

internal planning

all through that.

But interior architect

to me is a term

that you could use.

It's that really starts

to identify the right

interior designer

who's gone through

the right amount of

qualifications and

training and provides

the right amount of

documentation to then

differentiate from,

say, a, The person

picking the color

with no disrespect to

what they do either.

first and foremost

architecture is

highly regarded.

They've worked really

hard to get there.

They do a completely

different thing to

what it is that I do.

And I can't do my job

without architects,

building designers

or draftees.

But yeah, I believe

because it's a

regulated industry,

you can't just brandish

the term architecture

without a degree.

So, I guess, I think

there are interior

architecture degrees,

which, to be honest

with you, I'm a

little hazy on what

that distinction is.

But I think it would

help a lot of people

to understand my

role a bit better.

So there's no governing

bodies for you or

anyone like there's

no association that

says no you are an

interior designer Like

we have the vba in

victoria as a builder

there are associations

and there are people

who are really lobbying

for, like, getting,

at least a certain

level of qualification,

which I expect will

probably have to be,

like, you wouldn't

be able to implement

that retrospectively,

but for people

moving forward.

, I think that's

probably the hardest

part is because, as

I touched on before,

someone could be doing

something on Friday,

have a Light bulb

moment over the weekend

that they want to

open into an interior

design business.

And on Monday call

themselves that

Well, that's the

there's,

it

pick

up a paintbrush

and woo.

I'm a builder or

painter and I can also

pick furniture and I

think it shows like

that that really Put a

negative spin on what

our industry do because

obviously negativity

sells That's why

people watch.

It's a drama show.

It's not a

building show.

no, and I think,

you know, at least

initially, if you

watch some of the

earlier episodes or

seasons of the block,

there actually was

some interior design

elements to it,

admittedly awful, but,

you know, it wasn't

so heavily sponsored

by suppliers and

things like that.

So there was a little

bit of like creativity,

, around what they

could do rather than

being pigeonholed

to choosing.

You know, specific

things from specific

places, and then seeing

the same thing from

one house to the next

house to the next.

, but yeah, I do feel

like shows like the

block definitely

devalue the building

industry as a whole.

And also, yeah,

interior design

I

reckon that's a

whole podcast on

itself, Hamish.

Release that one the

day before the

block comes out.

I was just, I was just

thinking to myself,

we could totally go

down a rabbit hole

here, but, let's try

and bring it back in.

Hey, Aaron, I'm

going to change the

tone a little bit.

What's your favorite

space to design?

kitchens,

definitely kitchens.

Yeah,

should we put a sink

in the island bench?

if it's absolutely

necessary, but

there's usually a way

that you can find a

place for it not to

be in the island.

But again, it comes

down to the person.

It's a very divisive,

divisive topic.

Some people want it

there particularly

because maybe

they're washing up,

watching the TV.

And maybe that

suits them and

their lifestyle.

And they're

happy with that.

Matt and I, you'll

know, we've got a

cooktop in the Island

bench at one of our

projects, and I really

tried hard to not

have that happen.

Um,

So, so on that then,

what do you do when a,

when a client selects

something or their,

their design, their

interior design is

not what you like at

all and you hate it?

What do you do?

But that's their style.

I think at the end

of the day, like the

type of designer that

I am, I listen to my

clients, their needs

and their wants, and

I have my influence

on things, because,

still have to talk to

the architecture of the

home that the interiors

still have to make some

kind of sense to it.

But ultimately the

client wants what

the client wants, and

I'm not going to say

you should have this.

When that's not what

they want, like they're

spending, you know,

they're well earned

money on their home.

And if they really love

something, then sure,

they can have that.

But then I try

and find a way to

make it look cool.

there's been a number

of times where,

you've told me, , in

confidence that that's

not what I would have

done, but it's what

the client wanted.

And that's okay.

And I think because

everyone has their,

needs and wants and

desires for their home.

And again, I think

that's something

that you tease

out really well.

Am I playing,

So,

you.

I mean, I

guess,

like some designers

will have their style

and their aesthetic

and you go to them

because that's what

they do well, whether

it's neutral interiors,

whether it's, Modern

Australian farmhouse

style or whatever,

like, you can go to

their web page and

all their projects

are very similar.

You can see that

there's that

common thread.

and if that's genuinely

what the client

wants, then great.

, but I find that

Sometimes I'll have a

client come to me with

a particular brief and

with a bit of prodding

and challenging because

I really believe if

I'm not challenging

their ideas.

And opinions on things,

then I'm not doing my

job right, , because

I think we all need

to be challenged in

our beliefs because

often they're not

really grounded in

any kind of truth.

It's just, oh,

we saw that.

So we don't do that

or whatever it is.

Oh, and

you

Um,

it might be my

Dutchness, but yes, I

definitely challenge.

, I guess what I'm

trying to say is

like, everyone is

very different.

So our homes should

not be the same.

what I understand, it

should be like when

you have your friends

and family over, the

home represents, like,

they walk in and go,

oh yeah, this is a

very Aaron house.

So I want to

play a game.

And what I want to

do is dispel some

of the myths about

interior designers.

am I playing

this game too?

yeah, you can

play the game.

Okay, good.

I wanted to

feel included.

now you're gonna,

yeah, you're included.

You're always

included, Hamish.

So I want to dispel

some of the myths

and I'll actually ask

both of you because

it's actually, I, I

personally think, so

I, the reason why I

have this theory is

I've, I did a post

last year about shit

canning the block and

that it's unrealistic

in our industry and

that the trades are

not respected and all

this other stuff, but

what I didn't realize

is so many interior

designers reached out

and spoke about their

side of things and I

never thought about it.

I never stopped.

And it was only at

that point where I

really started to

work really close with

Erin and I actually

really knew the value

that she provided

along with a few other

interior designers

that I work of, I work

with, and I was like,

whoa, like, we've got

to talk about this.

And as you probably

have, you probably

realize I'm happy

to piss people off

and start these

conversations.

So I want to dispel

some of these myths

around interior

designers and start

to put a positive

spin on what you guys

do because you're

so valuable and you

should be on every

single project.

So the first question

I have is interior

designers are only

for wealthy people.

Not true.

And why isn't it true?

I believe, firstly,

that it's a necessity,

not a luxury.

I think it's just some

simple tweaks to a

floor plan can have a

huge impact on the way

someone lives and moves

through their space.

And that actually might

even save them money,

to be honest, like,

from a build point

of view, maybe the

house is exorbitantly

too big and we're

just like, like, why

are we, why have we

dedicated that much

space to the kitchen?

And all of this joinery

in the kitchen, when

we could make this.

slight change, and

then you've reduced

the joinery costs, the

stone costs, all of

that sort of stuff.

So there's little

things like that.

, but I think at the

end of the day,

yes, we're a paid

service, consulting

service, but we

can save you money.

Hamish, what's

your answer?

As a builder.

I'm gonna answer

this in a bit

of a random way.

I actually think

that people need to

be more educated on

the value of interior

design because What

Aaron was touching

on before about cost

savings, that wouldn't

have come up to

someone who's trained

in interior design

on, on how people

live in their homes.

These conversations

would have come up

and people would have

just accepted what the

designers has drawn.

You know, we've done

a bunch of projects

where interior design

has been a bit of a

second thought and they

just don't feel and

function as well as a

home that's been really

well thought out.

And.

, we've got a project at

the moment with Aaron

where it's a small

footprint and the house

feels so much bigger

because every single

piece and element

and nook and cranny

of the home has been

thought about from, the

laundry that's also a

mudroom to the living

and dining joinery,

which also, you know,

a study and a sunbed,

like all of these

things are in one tiny

space, but that space

feels so much bigger.

I mean, I don't know

where I'm going with

this one, but I, but I

feel that,

deserves to live

in a home that's

really well designed.

been working on it and

it's well designed.

you're gonna pay

someone to do it.

So, if you're gonna

pay the builder to help

you make selections,

you better pay a f

ing interior designer.

That's their job.

, we're about to embark

on our own, , journey

on our own home.

And, um, I've had a

few people ask me, oh,

what are the interiors

gonna look like?

And I said,

I don't know.

I haven't talked to

Erin about that yet.

That'll be

her decision.

might have something

to say about that,

but I'm just like,

whatever Erin wants.

so , from experience

for you guys about to

build my house, that I

have my ideas, Nicole

had her ideas, and

Hamish, Nicole wins.

So, there's compromise

and the compromise is

you lose everything

that you want.

No, no, Nicole's

been awesome.

She's let me pick

one or two things.

I get a barn.

I get it.

I get a 200 I can do

whatever I want in.

That's

Alright, my my second

misconception about

interior designers.

interior

designers design

unrealistic stuff.

yeah, so I guess

this feeds into the

larger, misinformation,

miseducation or

whatever, in the space.

If you're an interior

designer, I can only

talk to my process,

I guess, but I'm very

conscious of budget

from the outset, I

don't like leading my

clients down a path

that's going to lead

them fundamentally

disappointed

at the end.

Cause we're well

over budget.

So I'm always saying

we can include that.

But it might get value

managed out and it's

just that transparency

and conversation

from the beginning.

I think is

so important.

I've got a project on

the go at the moment,

, in concept stage and.

It's a low budget,

for what it is that

they're wanting

to get out of it.

And I've already

flagged that with them

and we're going to get

a builder to come in

after concepts to kind

of try and get a bit

of a feasibility to

see so we don't go all

the way down the track

and break their hearts

at the end because no

one wants to do that.

So, I think there's

obviously designers

that fall in that

camp who are very

mindful of budget and

delivering a product

, that is You know,

relative to the budget.

So,

you know, if

they give you,

well, no, not everyone

has a money tree,

but it's also knowing

that, you know, if

their budgets X.

We're then looking at

this type of material,

this type of tapware,

but I think the

damage, or the danger

lies in people that

don't consider that,

who then go out on

this big whim to make

this knockout kitchen

and then realize

that it's actually

not feasible at all.

And that's where

you, I guess, lose

the trust, then

subsequently, I guess,

have the devaluing

of the industry,

because that's not

reflective of good

interior design.

Probably speaks to the

importance of getting

everyone involved

in pre construction,

because I know how

when we get you

involved, Darren,

it's usually typically

pretty early on.

And even though we're

not getting you to do

completed documentation

in, I guess, what

we call our concept

stage, we're still

having conversations

with you about costs

and finishes and

fixtures and all

that kind of stuff.

And then I guess

at the end of that

concept stage, we're

giving you a list

of the allowances

that we've made.

So we might have.

You know, 150 tiles,

100 for tiles.

This is what we've

allowed for taps.

And this is what we've

allowed for flooring.

And you can use that

information to then,

develop your selections

and fittings.

Now, if we didn't do

that piece of work

with you in concept

stage, and then we

didn't provide you with

the information that

we based our costings

off, then Where are

your parameters to,

specify tapware and

tiles, et cetera.

Uh, I guess the point

I'm trying to make

is just that, that

collaboration starts

really early and that

includes getting the

interior designer on

at the very beginning.

And I think to that

point as well, like,

the earlier you can

get us involved,

the better, because,

like, I want that

before plans have

been endorsed by

council, like, so

we can make changes

and not have to go

through that rigmarole.

Again, I want to

be making sure that

we're, , having the

conversations that

really get to the nitty

gritty of the clients.

Functional needs and

requirements from

their spaces before

someone else has signed

off on it, because

I've been involved

in loads of projects

where I've identified

something that hasn't

sat right in the floor

plan, , that I've then

wanted to challenge

with the client.

maybe a walk in

robe in a small

bathroom, perhaps.

maybe a walk in robe

in a small bathroom.

Indeed.

But also, yeah,

, having clients come

to you, identifying

something with their

floor plan that they

feel like is set in

stone and you're going,

no, we have the means

to be able to change

and tweak this and make

it work better for you.

But that's with

the luxury of time

up your sleeve and

obviously starting the

process way earlier.

Great answer.

I love the chat

about , collaboration.

So, question three,

and we've kind of maybe

touched on this, but

interior designers

just spend money.

no, um,

That's

We're mindful of

money and costs.

I mean, we should be,

Totally.

Interior designers

just follow trends.

some do, , but I don't.

, I like to, and this

again comes back again

to the challenging,

with all of my clients,

they'll come to me

with their mood board

or, Pinterest page

or whatever it is,

or I usually ask

them to send through

some inspiration,

for a kitchen, a

bathroom, whatever.

If I identify that

that is something

that's highly popular

at the moment and

is on trend, I will

always ask them and

typically around colors

and things like that.

, sage green, obviously

has had a very hot

moment in interiors

and has been for ages.

And to be honest, I

don't really see it

going because it's

a beautiful natural.

, earthy tone, however,

it's everywhere.

So people kind

of go, Oh, we, we

see this kitchen.

We want this kitchen.

And it's like, okay,

well, what is your

favorite color?

Blue.

Oh, okay.

So why do you want

a green kitchen?

Things like that.

I if you are committing

to this color in

your life, cause I

think we all should

commit to color.

I, I do like to

make sure that

it's something that

obviously They truly

like it and it's not

just because they've

seen a million kitchens

like that and they

just like the overall

kind of vibe of that.

Same goes for like

archways, gold

tapware, all of

that sort of stuff.

It's very of

the moment.

So I just like to kind

of identify things that

could be , tipping into

trend territory and

just make sure that

it is something that

they actually like

How do you try to look

for future trends then?

I'm pretty lazy

designer in that

sense, to be honest.

I know some people

like, trawl over like,

the Milan design fairs,

and they love all

that sort of stuff.

But, I don't really

care much for trends,

future or current.

Hey, have you got

anything for that one?

thing that immediately

came to my mind when

you said, do, do

interior designers,

Spend or, cost money.

, the thing that

immediately came to my

mind was that interior

designers add value.

I mean, I know that,

put Aaron in some

situations where

the budget has been

really tight and I'm,

I'm thinking of, um,

Kite and Aaron in

particular, where

we've said, you know

what, we have a really

tight budget here.

And, These are the

budgets that you've

got to play with.

And not only have

we managed to stick

to budget, but we've

actually, well, you've

actually come up with

a design palette that

is, you would not even

hit for one second that

we've been running on

a really tight budget

because everything

just works so

beautifully together.

So I think in my

opinion, interior

designers, a good

interior designer

adds value.

But I think the

beauty in that, Is the

knowledge on where you

can spend and where you

can save and then doing

that balancing act all

throughout the build.

So it's, if there are

things that do have

to, to budge on a

quality or a cost or

whatever, then it's

identifying where

is best in the house

for that to be made.

, and that's not

your kitchen

or, , it could be.

That we get a cheaper,

more cost effective

splash back tile.

Bench tops are the wow

factor or something

like that for want

of a better word.

It's just the,

the balancing

act throughout.

Alright, last one.

Anyone can be an

interior designer.

It's technically

true, unfortunately.

not the answer

I'm after.

you, Definitely

will have an innate

ability towards this.

I think there are

things that you

can learn to make

you better at it.

But I do think that it

is an inherent skill,

, at the end of the day.

And I think that as an

interior designer, you

need to be constantly

learning and pushing

yourself to be better

at what you do.

, and it's not just a

matter of selecting

colors and tiles

Alright, and I've got

one question before we

start to wrap this up.

Do you feel

valued in what you

do?

Not really, , I find

it really difficult,

but I guess I have, as

we've sort of already

identified, I'm not

surprised that there's

not a value placed

on the industry.

more needs to be done

around the education.

within the

industry too.

I think, first and

foremost, we need

to know the clear

distinction between

what an interior

designer does,

what an interior

decorator does.

We need a clear

distinction between

what a full service

offering is.

Because for me,

full service is

providing all of the

background, , concepts

through to designs and

then a very detailed

documentation package

to a builder who can

then obviously bring

the interiors to life.

, whereas I see some

people offer full

service as being just

providing a spec sheet

full of the materials

and paint colors and

things for a home.

And when you get

the price tag of 1

against the other,

like, for people that

don't understand the

difference, they'd

be like, well, why

does 1 cost this and

the other cost that?

Like, I really feel

for homeowners who

first and foremost

don't, don't know

that we exist, , and

that they need us

on their projects.

But also for

the people who

do exist within

this space.

, I feel for myself here

a little bit because

it's, it's, I feel

like we're constantly

having to prove why

we're valuable to

have on a project.

And I guess a lot

of that is you guys

are huge supporters.

And the reason why I

really love our job

so much is because.

I don't have to

do the hard sell.

You've already sold

to your clients why

they need an interior

designer on board.

Often clients will come

to a builder first.

They're not coming

to a designer first

because again, they

don't really know that

where exists, we exist.

And there's, again,

as we touched on all

the misconceptions

about, we just spend

their money and all

of that sort of stuff.

So, you guys have

been so valuable

for promoting the

value of design.

when you go into

a passive house,

you get it.

You understand

why you're there.

You should live in a

passive house because

it's got a different

feeling and it's got

a different vibe and

you feel healthier,

you sleep better.

I think the same

applies when you

go into a home when

the interiors are

really thought out

because it feels

different, it operates

different, it feels

like it's intended

to be a certain way.

And I think everyone

should in fact, let's

Matt, let's open up

some of our homes that

Aaron's been involved

in so people can

actually experience

what really good

interior design is and

what the benefit is.

I've got a little quote

here or a testimony

from one of your other

clients, Aaron, and

I'm going to read it

out and it says, we are

so glad we got you on

board for our project.

I don't know where we

would be without you.

And I'm going to echo

those words, Aaron,

because I feel that

what you've brought

to our project,

is just something

incredibly special

that we wouldn't

have had if we didn't

have you on board.

So thank you.

And I'm sure Matt

can probably echo

those words as well.

Oh, totally.

That's why I asked

the question, do

you feel valued?

Because sometimes I

feel that you feel that

you're not valued, but

to Hamish and I, I know

we value you and what

you do, and people

who do what you do,

it's enormous for

our projects to make

them work properly.

like, I just

quickly did a

quick Google then.

So the impact of

interior design on

resident care in long

term care facilities,

that there's a

positive impact with

interior design.

There's a positive

impact with,

well designed

educational spaces

on student learning.

Like there is positives

with what you guys do.

Like studies that

shows that what

you do is actually.

It means something

and I think we do need

to value what you do.

So, thank you for what

you do for our projects

and the other projects

I'm not even on.

But keep pushing, like,

get that

message out there.

Don't be afraid to

speak up and piss

people off to,

provide value for

what you guys do.

I don't think

Aaron knows how

Yeah.

off.

Oh, I'm, I'm

very, yeah.

I don't, I don't like

pissing people off.

I'm a people

pleaser and,

I didn't know that.

um, yeah.

And, and I find it

very hard to articulate

things and being Dutch.

Things often come

out of my mouth.

Not quite how I intend

them to come across.

You speak clear,

you speak clearly.

I know you're nervous

about coming on,

but I was, you don't

say um or um much.

You're just a very

clear speaker.

I didn't actually

answer like half

of your questions.

Yeah, sweet.

Tell me you

about my process.

And I don't think

I actually did

that at all.

Um, but any,

I tell you what, if

you're, if you're a

builder or if you're

a client listening

to this podcast.

Uh, Or or, an

architect, uh,

reach out to Erin.

She's awesome.

, don't just take

mine and Matt's,

, words for it.

Erin's,

And,

Erin's unreal.

and is it he

he or hey hey?

Hey, Hey,

Hey hey design.

well do you want the

background on that?

So it actually

makes some

Yes.

So it's a little

Dutch expression

that basically

translates to.

when you sit it

down at the end of

a day and pop your

feet up, then it's

that sigh of relief.

So where we would

go, people would

go, so that's it.

Thank you.

Thanks,

Pleasure.

Love ya.

Ciao ciao.

Love you too.

Bye.