00:00:08 Sana: Welcome back, listeners, to this blend, where we talk about what it really takes to build businesses that don't just grow, but they grow with intention. I am, as always, here. And today I am bringing a topic, a conversation for all of you, which I, I think we a lot of us, we we struggle with. How do you build genuine people first relationships and industries that are fundamentally driven by transactions? It's a legit question, listeners now, for example, real estate's then sales, then recruiting. These are fields which are heavily transactional driven. There's a pressure to close deals, hit targets, move fast, and yet more successful people in these spaces will tell you it is not about the hustle. It's about the human being on the other side of the table. So today's guest listeners knows this tension intimately. Leskovac bought her first property at eighteen. Yes, eighteen after saving up through grade school. She started her career in New York's Garment center, working in design and marketing, then pivoted to recruiting in the creative field when she moved to Charlotte. And this is what I find fascinating about her journey is that she didn't just stumble into real estate, she deliberately combined her recruiting experience, like really getting into people's lives, understanding what they actually need with her long standing passion for property investment. And now this works in real estate in Charlotte, where she lives with her husband, twin daughters and the new five. And full disclosure, when I kind of read her bio, um, I had a lot of questions like, how exactly are eighteen? Is it possible to buy a property? Honestly, listeners, at eighteen I didn't have an iota of idea about all these things, let alone about property or real estate. I mean, that's not typical. Then working in recruiting, then choosing real estate. A lot of questions in there. But then I'm pretty sure this is going to be a very interesting conversation, listeners. So let's get on to it. And Liz, welcome to Biz Plan. And it's really an honor to have you here.

00:02:42 Liz Khodak: Thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited.

00:02:45 Sana: Super, super. Um, okay, Liz, I want to start obviously like here, first property you bought at eighteen. I mean, that's that's quite, quite uncommon. Uh, because most eighteen year olds, um, I mean, I still figure out college or, um, what exactly I'm going to do, or maybe sometimes not even something related to job, uh, or maybe, you know, kind of feeling that, uh, rebel thing inside me. Yeah, but you were thinking about home ownership. What was actually driving that decision? Uh, and I'm asking because I'm curious if it was strategic or if there is a story behind it that shaped how you think about money and stability.

00:03:31 Liz Khodak: Yeah. I mean, that's a great question. Um, so I think it's a little bit of both. My parents were immigrants or refugees to this country, and they found that owning property was, you know, the biggest form of freedom. It's it's it meant financial freedom to them. So I think I saw that from early on growing up, and maybe I was in a strange kid instead of spending my allowances, you know, at the mall or at movies, I was saving away little bits of it and knew that I wanted to also own something. And, um, when I got to college as a freshman, I lived in the dorms for about one semester. And then I said, you know, I bet I could buy a property and have a roommate, and that roommate would pay me rent and that would pay my mortgage. So I did have, you know, some help in terms of advice from my father. And that's what I did. I ended up buying my first property. I had a roommate. She paid the rent, which paid my mortgage, and that was the start of my investment journey. Hmm.

00:04:39 Sana: That actually makes sense. Liz actually makes sense. with all the journey there, um, Then kind of a different thinking and then family's history. Um, you know, a lot of people hear stories, uh, like this, and, um, they would still think that, okay, that's great. But then I didn't have clarity at eighteen, like, I didn't have that discipline. Also, something that I would also say here is to be honest, but that how much of your early success do you think was about mindset versus circumstances, like, because I think there's this narrative in business that anyone can do anything if they just want it badly enough. And I'm not sure if that's entirely fair.

00:05:26 Liz Khodak: Yeah. I mean, I'm sure it's a combination. I think it would be naive to say that had I been under different circumstances or in a different place or a different time, that it all would have worked out that way. But I'm a true believer in things happen the way they're supposed to happen. And I do believe in mindset as a huge portion of the outcome. You know, people who have a lot to be grateful are usually the people who can see the the gratitude and see all the blessings in their life, even if they're not many. Right? To someone else. Um, and I do believe that if you, um, if you really want something for the right reasons and you truly believe in yourself, you will figure out a way to make that happen. And I think there's plenty of examples throughout history that have proven that. So I think it's definitely a combination. I was lucky in a lot of ways, but I've always had the mindset of, you know, I could do anything, and I always had the mindset that things happen and work out the way they're supposed to. So I wasn't burdened, I guess, by a lot of worry or concern. And that let me take the plunge, right? That let me take those risks. So yeah.

00:06:44 Sana: That also makes sense. And I also believe that. The ones who would be actually putting those efforts who have actually would have tested the waters, they wouldn't say that. I mean, they would say, yes, I'm still trying. Maybe not right now. Maybe sometime in future. I get what I actually want. Or maybe, uh, this is kind of the, the way or that journey that I have to go through to get or, you know, kind of to stumble or maybe achieve what exactly want, or maybe that would lead to something else that would be better than what exactly I wanted.

00:07:23 Liz Khodak: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, one hundred percent. I think if you are of the mindset that the best things are worth, you know, some fighting and you will make mistakes and that's part of the process and that's okay. And actually probably necessary to get to where you want to go. Then you will continue to try. And of course, if those things knock you down, you know, and you don't want to get back up, then you probably won't succeed. Hmm.

00:07:54 Sana: So, uh, let's moving on. Let's talk about recruiting. Um, I mean, you, uh, recruiting is is absolutely like you are directly connecting with people you are getting into, getting to understand their priorities, matching them with roles. I mean, to me, it's it's a huge, huge responsibility. Um, and sometimes it feels like more not exactly recruiting, but more like, uh, a service because, um, I know a couple of people who have been who have worked in Human Resource who have actually taken a taken a lot of interviews, and they have actually spent time in helping them to understand that, why they couldn't crack that interview, what exactly They need to do what kind of action plan they can, uh, create and work on how they can, you know, get to crack more interviews or maybe get the exact job that they desire. I mean, they have actually helped people because there's this very, uh, kind of, uh, you know, negative connotation to, uh, people who are in HR or recruitment that, okay, they'll always say, I'll get back to you, but they never get back to you. So it's it's, uh, it's it's quite, a quite a common misconception. Not misconception, but kind of a negative connotation. But again, it's a deeply personal work. So what did that teach you about what people actually want when they are making a major decision, you know, whether it's a job or a house? And how did that change the way you approach sales?

00:09:34 Liz Khodak: Yeah, one hundred percent. Um, so I think that, um, you really have to detach yourself a little bit from the outcome that you're looking for, and really get down to what it is that that person is going through, and it's often a life transition of some kind. Right. And and what's driving that and really trying to understand their pain points where they're coming from, the stress that they're under. And a lot of times they aren't themselves clear on what they're looking for or why. And I think the more you can ask questions and really understand what's driving the decisions, what's needed in that person's life, what are they missing? Are they having challenges because their resume isn't, you know, the way you would expect it to be? Or are they having issues in the interviewing process? Are they really looking for health insurance because something in their family is happening? You really have to understand what's driving it, and then you really act more as a coach if you're successful at it. And being able to coach them through the process so they can be successful and find it, you know, a position that fulfills what they're looking for. And then you're successful as well, right? Because you can match make um, you can match them to the right employer, the right position. So I think that that goes for everything. But trust kind of compounds the same way money does. Like quietly over time. And you really need to build that trust with someone. And you do that through conversation, genuine questions. Um, and really learning about and listening to what it is they're looking for. So yeah.

00:11:30 Sana: I think you it really highlighted the word trust in here because once again, um, it also is kind of an essential, um, building, uh, sorry, essential, a very foundational element of, uh, you know, all the discussions or transactions that happen in real estate as well. I mean, you are dealing with people here.

00:11:54 Liz Khodak: Uh, one hundred percent.

00:11:55 Sana: And it's such an important element of the relationship building. I mean, just before this, uh, episode, I was having another conversation, uh, like, how, you know, uh, relationship driven sales is better than, um, you know, putting up ads. It was kind of a very right, refreshing, you know, discussion because, uh, yeah. Ads marketing, they are, uh, they have been timelessly very effective way to spread your word. But then more than the machines or the platforms or internet, I think that human to human connection, it will stand the test of the time, whether it's AI or any other new technology that kind of disrupts human connection is always to make, uh, always will be there. Timeless.

00:12:43 Liz Khodak: That's right. Because the ads and marketing are just it's a way to get visible, right? It's visibility, awareness, but it's not building any type of relationship. And I truly believe that the most scalable businesses are built on trust and not pressure. You know, when people feel safe and they feel informed and respected, I think they make better decisions and those decisions last longer and then they get referrals. And, you know, yes, it's a transaction, but people don't wake up saying like, oh my gosh, I'm so excited to be in this transaction. They're waking up actually in the middle of a life transition, whether it's a move, a divorce, a promotion, a new baby, a financial reset, and my job or anyone's job is really not to push the deal, but it's to help them think clearly. When all those emotions and pressures high. You want to be the calm and you want to be the educator and a source of clarity and information, not an additional pressure point because you never know if that transition is a happy one or, you know, not so happy.

00:13:53 Sana: That's true. That's true. Um, and this, um, another kind of thought that comes to my mind is the transitions. Um, like, transitions can be sometimes very, very challenging even before getting on to, uh, you know, act on those transitions. Uh, it's, it's very natural that we'll have fear of changes. And you have actually navigated some very significant transitions, like New York to Charlotte, design and marketing, then to recruiting, then to real estate, and then, you know, becoming a mother of twins, uh, which is which is a whole other level of life change. I mean, I am getting, uh, a bit overwhelmed and, you know, kind of imagining everything. Uh, but then, yes, in my career, also like I've, I've worked across different, um, industries, um, different, uh, businesses with startups or enterprise. Um, but then having to manage your career and then also your family, I think it's, it's, it's definitely it's quite challenging. But then there's also a kind of fulfillment and a sense of belonging. Uh, and I think there are parallels also between both the worlds and here. So when you are middle, when you're in the middle of one of those major shifts, how do you actually make decisions like, uh, what's what's your, uh, fundamental way to look at all these transitions.

00:15:28 Liz Khodak: In my personal life? You mean.

00:15:30 Sana: Um, both.

00:15:32 Liz Khodak: Maybe for both?

00:15:34 Sana: Um.

00:15:36 Liz Khodak: Yeah. I think, um, you know, for me personally, a lot of it is really being able to get into a calm space. And I think I try, I try to do that for my clients as well. You know, their biggest decisions are usually happening when you're already overwhelmed and your system is overwhelmed, right? Whether it's emotional, personal, financial, whatever it is. So I think anytime if I'm going through a major life change or I'm working with a family that's navigating a family, a major life change, I am very aware that there's that emotional dysregulation. And, um, I think what I try to do is really slow the room down. You know, I try to speak less and tried to think about what the options are very clearly. Uh, remind myself or them, you know, whoever I'm dealing with, that they aren't trapped. You know, there's no like this, is it? And you're stuck with this forever. You know? Here are our options. Let's calm down. Let's think about what the true feeling is. You know what's going to happen if we do step A or step B and try to get some clarity around it. So I just I feel like people borrow your nervous system before they borrow your advice. So it's really important to try and find the calm in the storm and, and think through things a little bit more logically, if that makes sense. I don't know if I can name it, but it's always been a gift of mine, I guess, to really calm and kind of go from, uh, a point of clarity that makes sense.

00:17:21 Sana: No, it does, it does. Liz. Um, I think clarity is something that, uh, we all want to we are seeking, but sometimes, uh, I sometimes I really feel like, you know, just sleep on it and then we'll see. Yeah. Or it later. Yeah.

00:17:39 Liz Khodak: I truly believe, you know, sometimes you really have to listen to your gut. But in order to be able to listen to your gut, you need to get rid of kind of that outside noise. You know, the stuff that's causing the pressure, you know, and some people are better at that and some aren't. So sometimes you have to help people through the process. But again, I don't feel like there's a decision. I mean, I guess there's some decisions you can make that are like a dead end, but, you know, hopefully you're making a decision and you can pivot or change, like things will work out the way they're meant to if you're honest with yourself.

00:18:18 Sana: That's right, that's right. And I think sometimes we have to trust our intuition or trust our gut. But then also, uh, you know, Liz, um, because right now we are seeing so much of volatility. Um, how do we how do we differentiate between intuition and, uh, needed something that is coming, uh, from from fear or comfort that let's not take that risk. Let me stay within. Uh, this only I do not want any change to happen right now.

00:18:56 Liz Khodak: Yeah, yeah, I think a lot of people feel that way. Right? It's comfortable. Um, and I, you know, I just think, and I, I mean, I struggle with that, too. Sometimes I think everyone does. Right? But I think if you're looking for something different, it depends on what your goals are. But if you're looking for something different and you have big goals, or you have a goal to be somewhere you aren't currently or be someone you aren't currently, then that's not going to happen. If you continue to do things the same way you've been doing them. So I you know, it's hard, I think, sometimes to differentiate between your own voice, especially when you have family and other obligations and, you know, the external pressures. But, you know, for me, I try to meditate a lot. I try to take some time for myself to quiet that noise. I think it takes practice in being able to really listen to what your gut and your intuition is telling you, but in the end, I feel like the best things in life come from something that seemed pretty scary in the beginning. You know, something risky. Um, that's. But yeah, that's not for everyone.

00:20:12 Speaker 5: hmm. Um, I think,

00:20:16 Sana: one thing that you mentioned, which really kind of struck a chord with me, is not everyone can, um. Hold themselves under pressure all the time. Sometimes, you know, we we cannot.

00:20:34 Speaker 5: And that's that's.

00:20:36 Sana: Where, uh, I think it's from on, on both the sides that let's let's not let's try to help, uh, maybe someone we know or someone we love, uh, if they are not able to, uh, think or decide under pressure, let's not help them. Let's not just expect that. No, no, no, you have to make a decision right now. Right now and be oh my goodness, you are very, very weak. That's why you're not able to perform under pressure. Sometimes we have to help. And then at the other end as well, sometimes it's okay. Uh, I think, you know, it's a more human way to acknowledge or be aware that maybe right now I'm immensely under pressure. It's not the right time for me to make a decision. Or maybe I should definitely seek out for help. Um, yeah.

00:21:26 Speaker 5: So. Right.

00:21:28 Liz Khodak: I think, um, yeah, I heard somewhere once, you know, like, pressure gets compliance. Like, if you're under pressure, you're just going to be compliant in whatever the decision is. So the goal is to somehow get out of that, and whether it's with someone you trust or hiring, you know, a coach or whatever you're going through in that moment. Um, but I think, yeah, you don't want to make decisions in that, in that emotional space of just being under pressure. And I think, you know, that's my goal is what, you know, in recruiting and now in real estate, I just yes, we're looking for a house, but I don't want you making a decision to buy a house under pressure, because that's not necessarily the best decision for you and your family. So usually if you can take that pressure off, then the person can get clarity. And I think that's I believe that to be my job, um, to help them get to that point where they can feel clear in what they're looking for and be able to make a decision that genuinely feels good.

00:22:39 Sana: And before we conclude, do you ever feel this, um, dilemma? You know, many people say that business and feelings, emotions, um, anything which is, which is human. It doesn't have any relevance in business. Sometimes you have to, uh, take hard decisions. Sometimes you have to, um, let off all these emotions and feelings, go and, uh, decide from a business perspective, not from your perspective.

00:23:17 Liz Khodak: Forget question. You know, I think, um, I guess there's two sides to it. I think you one hundred percent need emotion and empathy in business to do business well, because as you said at the beginning of this, you know, yes, these are transactions, but we're human beings. And, um, you know, I think trust is at the root of everything in business. If you want it to be sustainable. So I don't believe you can build that without having emotion and having some personality. But at the same time, I think you do have to like me as a professional. I might feel, you know, a certain house of ugly, or I might not like how someone treated someone, but sometimes I have to put my feelings aside towards that, because my job is to do what's best for my clients, you know, and and I represent them. So I think there's both I think I do see sometimes people take things very personally and they they let that muddy their decision making, you know, for their clients a little bit or it gets confused. So I think as long as you're aware and you are being genuine and you are making sure that you are a calm, confident, you know, service provider to your client and you're not putting your emotions first. It's their emotions then. Um, I think you're okay, but I can't imagine doing it without emotion. And we're just robot.

00:25:00 Sana: I don't know what other listeners, but this is something that I have, um, right from the beginning of my career as well. Uh, kind of, uh, stayed with, with this. I mean, that has been one of my way of approaching everything. Not that, you know, everything has to be emotional, but at least respecting someone else's emotions and their thoughts and their opinions as well. Um, and especially when you are in a world which is Transactional heavy, whether it's sales or real estate or it's very, very much frontline. I think emotions are very important. Once again, trust. Yes, both of these are so much directly connected to each other. Yeah. For sure. Super. Uh, there's, um, this was a very, very once again, a very refreshing discussion. Um, and, uh, I'm very sure our listeners will have lots to, uh, share with you. Maybe they have some conflicting thoughts, or maybe they would like to share their own experiences as well. And they would also like to, uh, seek more wisdom from you, explore more about the work that you do so how they can reach out to you.

00:26:19 Liz Khodak: Yeah, sure. I'm on Instagram at, um, the handles Ali's takes at home. Or they can always email me at l k h o d at Realty com and my websites Kodak Homes.com. And that's Kodak with an H.

00:26:40 Sana: Super, super. So listeners, there you go. I'll have all the links mentioned in the show notes. And so just refer to them, find them attached along with this episode on your favorite podcast platform. And um, uh, listeners, I think, um, this is very, very much safe to say that, um, Liz has made some unconventional choices from really from a really young age. We discussed about buying property at eighteen, shifting careers multiple times, choosing a business model that prioritizes relationships over rapid scaling. And I think none of that happened by accident. It required clarity about her values, willingness to be patient, and probably some uncomfortable moments where Liz had to trust that her approach would pay off even when it looked different from what everyone else was doing or maybe was saying. So let's thank you so much. Um, I really appreciate your willingness to, you know, sit with some of the harder questions. It's really.

00:27:52 Liz Khodak: Good. Thank you so much for having me. I really enjoyed it.

00:27:56 Sana: And thank you to all our listeners for tuning in to this episode of this blend. And if today's conversation connected with you or maybe challenged you, I want you to ask yourself, what am I optimizing for? Am I building something that requires me to show up as someone I am not? Or am I creating space for my actual values to drive my decisions? Because that answer will tell you a lot about whether you are on the right path or not. Until then, this is your host. You have been listening to this blend. Stay tuned and I'll be back with another interesting conversation. Thank you.