0:00: Price is not indicative of value.

0:02: As an investor, you need to be looking for undervalued assets.

0:05: The market price is just what the trading price is for that given day.

0:09: CommBank does, for example, but it's a $10,000 cap per month.

0:12: Should we be thanking them for just allowing the 10?

0:15: No, you shouldn't be.

0:16: Absolutely not.

0:17: What makes you buy Bitcoin?

0:18: Well, for me, Bitcoin's value in the next 5 to 8 years is a million dollars.

0:23: The market price today being 180,000.

0:26: is inconsequential to me.

0:27: What Bitcoin is is a receive and send address for value.

0:31: That's it.

0:32: But the core, the core value proposition for me for Bitcoin isn't its store of value characteristics, isn't its means of exchange.

0:39: The core is I'm Matthew Fraser, and this is Crypto Collective.

0:43: After making millions with Amazon and e-commerce, I realized that if I was starting again today, crypto would be my first choice.

0:51: I'm here.

0:51: To help you take your first steps and build real wealth.

0:55: Ready to set yourself up for life?

0:57: Let's go.

0:58: Hey guys, thanks for joining me on this episode of Crypto Collective.

1:00: Today in the studio, I've got none other than Bishar, the director of Storm rake, who's here to tell us all the ins and outs of hopefully getting more money into Bitcoin and the on off ramps and all the details about how can we now navigate the banking in Australia as, as well as a lot of other things.

1:17: We're gonna touch on.

1:17: So let's jump into it.

1:18: Bishop, welcome.

1:19: Thanks for having me, man.

1:20: It's what a, what an awesome setup you have.

1:22: It was an awesome studio.

1:23: Thanks for having me.

1:24: Yeah, no, so thank you so much for coming.

1:25: I wanna jump straight into it.

1:27: Basically, just so people can frame it well, who are Stormra and what do they do?

1:32: How does it benefit the Bitcoin crypto community?

1:34: Awesome question.

1:35: So look, really, what it starts off with is we wanted to build a service that our mothers could use, right?

1:41: Someone that could just come in, you can Buy and you can sell Bitcoin and other digital assets through a simple phone call or email.

1:47: we had a lot of people that back in the day were trying to navigate exchanges.

1:52: They were trying to set up accounts.

1:53: It was really difficult.

1:54: Sometimes you have to on-ramp, get your Aussie dollars onto like an Aussie exchange, convert it into stablecoin, then send it to another exchange to buy the crypto you're after.

2:03: Very complicated, lots of steps.

2:05: So what I wanted to do is build a service where people can simply Have one dedicated point of contact within my business.

2:11: At that time, it was just myself and my two business partners.

2:14: And so I was the point of contact.

2:17: Still am.

2:17: And so people can just call up and say, Hey Bish, what's the, what's the scale of the market?

2:21: What's been happening?

2:22: OK, great.

2:23: Put me down for 1000 a bitcoin, or 500 of Bitcoin, or buy me some Ethereum.

2:27: So it just, like, I guess, like the old stock market days where you would ring up the broker and say, put an order in for this.

2:34: And, and so why is that beneficial for people?

2:37: Like, why would they now, I guess, use your service as opposed to using your everyday crypto exchange?

2:42: Yeah, so two things.

2:44: One, as a broker, we ourselves are facing a number of different exchanges.

2:47: Any broker in any industry, they shouldn't be just relying on one source.

2:51: So, for example, a good mortgage broker should be out there facing a lot of banks, even non-bank.

2:56: Bank lenders to get you, the client, the best possible mortgage rate available in the market based off your needs.

3:02: As a crypto broker, we do the same thing.

3:04: So we'll face 20 different exchanges, we'll face 5 different private markets.

3:08: So, yes, on your end, it's just an old school simple phone call or email, but then we'll go ahead and face a number of different venues to get you the best possible price.

3:17: So in terms Of outcome for you as the client, you walk away with more SATs per purchase coming with us than you would on any regular Aussie exchange, cause you're getting the best price.

3:26: And 2, you're actually gonna focus on your craft.

3:29: You don't have to end up being a crypto trader full time just to get your trade on, you know, you can eat up half your afternoon, especially with the way that the complexity around security and everything.

3:39: So, you go out, you focus on what you're good at, whether you're a brickie, a plumber, you're an office worker, whatever it may be, you focus on your craft and you let us do our profession, which is to get you in and out of the market off a phone call or email.

3:52: So it's not just buying Bitcoin, it can be actually selling the Yeah, yeah.

3:56: And we do lots of swaps as well.

3:58: So we do a lot of portfolio rebalances for clients as well.

4:01: You know, clients come in, they often come to us with portfolios from other exchanges or other brokerages which haven't looked after them, and the portfolio is in complete disarray, and they're like, Can you help me fix this?

4:13: And, you know, whilst we just dive into that a little bit, because that's interesting.

4:17: So if someone comes to you with a portfolio of, and I'm I'm guessing you can buy and sell and not just Bitcoin, it could be any crypt most cryptos would you say?

4:24: cryptos yeah.

4:25: And so, they say, look, Bisher, can you help me with my portfolio, are you saying that you will analyze their portfolio and give your, I guess your expertise on how much allocation to Ethereum or Solana, is that what you're saying?

4:38: Yeah, we're happy to give them guidance and suggestions.

4:40: whilst we don't provide financial advice, well we are welcome to just say, look, this is what we would avoid, this is what we would focus on, just to give people a bit of a hand.

4:49: Held service, cause it's not just about being able to buy and sell.

4:52: Like, you know, you can do that on an exchange, but to get that real expert guidance along the way is super important.

4:58: And you and I both know, we're both bit orange peeled.

5:01: So for me, I'm trying to get you a bitcoin hat to get you one.

5:07: I'd love one, to be honest.

5:08: , like one of those fedoras.

5:10: , the Melbourne Cup races are coming up, by the way, so hopefully you can come down and orange orange.

5:17: but what it really boils down to is I'm trying to guide them towards Bitcoin because, you know, a lot of people come into the space uninitiated, and they just get smashed with like all these kind of prices and pairings and orders, and it's like they hear things just randoms, random old coins, like things are like, you know, were really popular back in 2007.

5:38: run and they're still really bullish on it for some reason.

5:41: Infinity.

5:42: Yeah, yeah, like just stuff that hasn't, hasn't had a, legs for a long time.

5:46: And it's not to say that they are never gonna run again, but it's just, we, we want people to have like an orange peeled portfolio.

5:54: What whilst we're not Bitcoin maxis, we describe ourselves as Bitcoin traditionalists, which is, it's Bitcoin first, Bitcoin primarily, build your portfolio around.

6:03: BTC.

6:04: And then at the margins, you can take risk in your portfolio, because that's really what you're doing when you're dabbling in old coins.

6:11: I see Bitcoin as store of value, means of exchange, the most open and permissionless network by the internet.

6:17: So it's a fantastic tool to use and it's a fantastic asset to have in your portfolio.

6:22: Everything else, I just feel it's kind of like internet tech stocks of the early 2000s.

6:27: Plenty of opportunity.

6:29: Huge upside, huge opportunity, plenty of risk.

6:33: 99% of them will fail, will fail in a spectacular fashion.

6:36: But what you want is you want to be invested in the 1%, the ones that could be the potential Googles, the Amazons, the Facebooks, really.

6:44: You would see people that come in and let's say they do get that altcoin, that 1000 X's or something, right?

6:50: just totally nuts.

6:51: The problem still has to be cashing in.

6:54: Yeah.

6:55: And that would be the difficulty, right?

6:56: Do, do you see that?

6:57: All the time, it's, it's, there's two difficulties.

7:00: One is the greed factor, getting rid of something that's made you extraordinarily wealthy on paper, yes.

7:06: It's very hard to do so.

7:07: And two, once you make the decision to pull the trigger, the liquidity on these tokens is super low.

7:13: And that's why again, explain that though, because I don't think people really understand what that means.

7:17: They, they think, hey, the price.

7:19: This has gone up to X, I'm just gonna sell on my bag now, but that's not really the case, is it?

7:23: No.

7:23: So oftentimes if you market sell an illiquid altcoin that you've done quite well on, you could tank the price 1020, 30%, right?

7:32: because you could be potentially quite a large holder.

7:35: And so what we want people to realize is that as a broker, we can actually break up the order across multiple venues, and we can spend.

7:42: One of my traders can sit on the order, just feeding it into the market regularly.

7:47: So that way, and the client, they don't need to worry about how many.

7:51: Yeah, if they get the results.

7:53: Correct, correct.

7:53: So like, whilst we might have spent 2, maybe 3 hours just feeding it into the market, taking small drips and drabs off, and then you'll just get one exit price, which is around the market price that you saw that you wanted to hit.

8:06: And then we give you the the AUD or you might have been swapped into Bitcoin, Bitcoin or whatever, right?

8:12: And so the part of the, the service is that we break it up, we make it discrete so that it doesn't affect the market too much.

8:20: Yeah, and, and can I just jump in there, because I think the reason why you don't want to affect the market too much is, let's say you, you sell part of your bag, you maybe you want to sell all of it, you sell half, the market starts tanking, other people see it tanking, they now start wanting to sell.

8:33: Is that right?

8:34: And yeah, you can't sell your next half.

8:36: Correct, correct.

8:36: So it's again like to break down what liquidity is, like you might have a.

8:41: Paper position that's worth half a million dollars.

8:44: But the current price, let's call it $1 there might be only $100,000 worth of buyers at that price point.

8:51: Yeah, because when you're selling, someone else has got to buy.

8:54: And so that's with any asset on any it's not just unique to crypto, it's stocks, precious metals, everything, right?

9:00: And so, we, we want to do it in a way which gives the client ultimately a simple execution where they don't have to worry about the, you know, the mechanics, the, the nuts and bolts of it.

9:09: We do that.

9:10: And then they just end up with a great outcome, and then they go on to the rest of the day.

9:15: This is such an important topic, Bishop, because I don't think, particularly people who are new to the market, and they, you know, they're about to go into this bull cycle and they think they're gonna be all these riches sort of waiting for them at the top of the mountain.

9:25: But they don't realize that this liquidity issue.

9:29: How should they navigate that?

9:30: Is scaling out on the way up the solution, or is there something else?

9:35: Look, to, to be fair, it, it comes down to what you want to achieve with your portfolio goals, right?

9:42: Some people are genuinely in it for a long-term investment.

9:45: They don't really Worry about cycle to cycle.

9:48: And that's the philosophy that we approach towards Bitcoin, for example.

9:51: on some of these sketchy.

9:53: No, no, no.

9:53: Let's say for example, for the ones that you are investing for the idea that you wanna, you know, grow your bag and then trade it back into Bitcoin or take some profits into Aussie dollars, that's perfectly fine.

10:03: You know, when the time comes to exit your position, let's exit the position, right?

10:08: You don't have to marry it or anything like that.

10:11: Now, if you want to discuss what is the most suitable exit strategy for your portfolio, let's have a phone call, right?

10:17: That's exactly part because we don't know, you could be in a mixture of like top 5 alts, which doesn't require a scale out.

10:23: If you're in things like Solana, Ethereum, even XRP, they're super liquid.

10:27: So you can give me a call and say, sell 2 million, 3 million, 4 million, 5 million.

10:32: We'll get that done quickly.

10:33: It's not gonna smash the market.

10:34: But if you're in a coin that's outside.

10:36: The top 100, and you want to exit it quite quickly.

10:39: Let's say, for example, Astor has come onto the scene quite recently.

10:43: that's still, despite the fact that it's got a large market cap, it's still quite a liquid as a market.

10:48: We're gonna need to scale that one out.

10:49: So it does change from coin to coin, depending on what you need.

10:53: So that's why we have that really consultative approach, because the last thing I wanna say is try to provide a blanket suggestion as to what we would do.

11:00: But it does come down to the core.

11:02: Have you seen the Bishop?

11:04: Have you seen people who have got come in to, to seek a service, try to sell out an old coin thinking they're gonna make millions and you just can't sell it?

11:11: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

11:12: Like, there have been coins that people have tried to come to us with.

11:15: We can't accept everything, so we genuinely try to give a red hot crack at supporting, a client's trade.

11:22: But they'll come to us and they might be on paper, the, the market cap might be 50 million of a token.

11:27: And they've got like 10% of the market, and I'm like, listen dude, there's literally less than 50K of buyers at the current price point.

11:34: So if I was to even just put like $400 into the market, I'm gonna, you're gonna start moving the market price.

11:41: So on paper, it looks great.

11:43: The wallet shows them a million dollars, but yeah, they, it must be livid though, if you're that person and you've got a million dollars in paper and you're thinking, I'm cashing out, and then you literally just cannot cash out.

11:55: Oh look, I just want to touch on this because I think it's so important because you're, you're on the inside.

11:58: I wanted I didn't even know that was the type of service that you could provide, which is amazing.

12:02: And I just want people to be careful, which I think kind of brings us back to really the fundamental reason why we want to focus really on Bitcoin because of the liquidity, because of the store of value and all the other attributes.

12:14: Let's talk about though, banking, because in my community in Crypto Collective, there's now, it's growing really fast, Bishop, there's now nearly 1400 people and they're mainly Australians predominantly who want to grow their wealth, but also through superannuation.

12:29: OK, they want to move their super into an SMSF and allocate to Bitcoin.

12:32: This is a big one for people.

12:34: However, what we're finding is under certain types of demographics of people, The banks are putting up a lot of brick walls, and traditionally, I, you know, I bank with ANZ.

12:44: I've actually found pretty good success with there, but in, in saying that, for people who are new to this, you can't just, look, people make the mistake.

12:51: I see this all the time.

12:53: I've been with Westpac for 30 years.

12:55: They know me down there.

12:58: I'm just gonna transfer this $50,000 over to XYZ, you know, coin stash account or over to yourself at Storm rake, and everything will be great.

13:06: Yeah.

13:06: And the next thing you know, all of their accounts get shut down, like not just the transaction gets frozen, every bank account is is like completely frozen.

13:15: And then of course what happens, panic because now they can't do, they can't go buy the groceries, they can't buy fuel, right, if they don't have any cash.

13:22: So, in your experience, Bisher, A, what do you see happening in, I guess in the landscape right now with banking, and I want you to give us ideally at the end of it, like a solution.

13:32: Awesome.

13:33: Like, this is a huge topic to unpack, and let's start at the high level, right?

13:37: Like, I really want to give people the bird's eye view as to what's happening with regards to Australian banking and crypto.

13:44: Why?

13:44: Do these issues come up.

13:46: It's not just you're being told it's preventing us from scams.

13:49: No, no.

13:49: So that's, that's couldn't be further from the truth, right?

13:52: That's the narrative that the banks are selling to their customers to kind of appease them and try to like, take the pressure off.

13:58: But what's happened, let's really bird's eye view, the regulators is waiting on Treasury, the Australian Treasury, to come out and put forward guidance on how Treat crypto.

14:09: Cause crypto in Australia right now is an unregulated asset class.

14:12: It's not considered a financial product.

14:14: It it doesn't sit under an AFSL, which is an Australian Financial Services license.

14:19: There's all of these gray areas that is intended to be now clarified over the next couple of years.

14:26: But the Australian Treasury hasn't pulled their finger out and got their act together.

14:30: And put forward guidance towards the regulator, which is in this case, ASIC, which is the Australian Securities Investment Commission, as to how to regulate the digital asset industry.

14:39: And as a, you know, one of the largest brokerages in the country, we're actually saying, look, we're not shy of regulation.

14:45: We're, we're based on Melbourne, Queen's Road, come in, have a chat with.

14:49: We have an office, come have a chat.

14:51: We're keen to, to discuss this, right?

14:53: , but nobody's coming to the table.

14:55: So the regulators are pointing to the legislators saying, we don't have any legislation.

15:01: The leg the legislators are sitting on their hands saying, Oh, we don't need to worry about this for now.

15:05: They've got other things to worry about like how to tax your unrealized gains and things of that nature.

15:11: Absolutely criminal.

15:12: Unrealized capital gains tax should be completely.

15:14: , and, you know, coming up with other creative things like, you know, bedroom tax levy, unused bedroom tax levies.

15:21: So anyways, they, they're, we joke about it though, but this is actually serious.

15:25: This is what these Labor governments are trying to impose on us.

15:27: If you don't laugh, you'll cry.

15:29: So get out of Melbourne.

15:31: That's all I can say.

15:32: At the very least.

15:33: I, I wanna be in the coalface.

15:34: Why I'm in Melbourne is I wanna I wanna.

15:35: I wanna be on the front.

15:37: I wanna be on the front lines.

15:38: I wanna see what's going on.

15:39: So, yeah, the legislators have completely kicked the can down the road.

15:43: So the regulators have said we can't do anything about this, and now it's fallen on the banks to operate as a cop, because if anything goes wrong with any sort of transaction that comes from their customer base, they're hit with massive amounts of fines.

15:56: So just say that again.

15:57: If I was to sell, like, if I was to transfer to just a crypto exchange random, buy Bitcoin.

16:04: But then I transferred the Bitcoin to a scammer, and then I go back to the bank and say it's your fault, you should have prevented me from transferring that money out.

16:15: Is that what you're saying, that the bank now gets fined?

16:17: It's not so much that that is not really the chain of events that they're.

16:21: Worried about, but what's happening is they don't have like an approved list of vendors that they can trade with, or, you know, for example, if you try to transact in foreign exchange, which is an industry that I've come from, half my career was in foreign exchange and CFDs before I moved into crypto.

16:37: There are a number of FX and CFD brokers in the country that have their AFSL that when you go to try to transfer to one of them, the banks know who they are.

16:46: So it's, it's a lot more transparent and it's easier to deal with because it is a regulated industry and asset class.

16:52: Whereas with the banks, they've got no guidance from the legislators, and from the regulators as well.

16:57: Well.

16:58: And so it's really tough.

16:59: And then what happens is, God forbid, if anything goes wrong, yeah, a client will, or a customer will come back and say, Oh, I never intended or authorized that transaction, or I've lost my funds or anything could go wrong.

17:10: They can't really go to anyone other than the bank and say, you've messed up, right?

17:16: And so then they go out, they get They, they just hit the throw the book out, right?

17:21: And then they say, OK, you know what, rather than dealing with any of this stuff, we're just gonna blanket ban all transactions or limit transactions.

17:28: So whilst I'm not trying to excuse the banks in this case, I'm, I've, I've got my own gripes with them, but I'm.

17:35: Not, I understand the predicament that they're in, because it's just this complete mess in Australia where the legislators have kicked the can down the road, the regulators have provided no guidance for the industry and how to treat digital assets.

17:48: So then the banks have just like decided, well, you know what, I don't wanna touch this industry.

17:52: And that's kind of got us to where we are now.

17:54: So what we do is we help the clients navigate those issues.

17:58: We spend countless hours on the phone every single day navigating the banks.

18:03: It's pretty much, I've, I could literally build a bank in this country within the next 30 minutes because it's just of how much time I've spent dealing with it.

18:13: no back to front.

18:14: But what, what's, what it really boils down to is, you know, you have to check off the certain things, you have to.

18:19: He's the person that you're speaking to, but we always say honesty is the best policy.

18:23: So whilst, yes, there are difficulties transferring from Australian banks to Australian crypto providers, service providers like Stormrake, it's not impossible.

18:33: You just have to, you know, say the right thing, be transparent, be honest about what you're doing.

18:37: You don't have to get into the specific mechanics of what you're doing, what you're buying.

18:42: You don't, that's your private financial matters.

18:45: but you can be open.

18:46: About who we are.

18:47: I'll give you a funny one, Matt.

18:48: I had a client of mine who was trying to transfer me $50 million and, the bank called him naturally, $500 million what's this for?

18:56: He goes, none of your business.

18:57: Like, Oh, well, we need to know so we can, complete the transaction.

19:00: He goes, I'm buying a pistachio farm.

19:02: And, if you look up Storm rake, we've got nothing to do with Macadamia.

19:08: The person's got to say, just be clear, the person's got to obviously get Storm rake's bank account.

19:13: Your proper bank account right to transfer the AUD into your account.

19:17: The bank's now looking at the details and going storm rate.

19:21: No, we're not pistachio farmers, so they blocked the transaction, blocked his account.

19:25: Yeah, yeah, correct.

19:25: And he's like, I just didn't want them to, I didn't want them to stop my transaction going through.

19:30: I didn't want to tell him it was for crypto, yeah, and I said, look, when it comes down to this stuff, honesty is the best policy.

19:36: That's the reason why we have an open door policy on our, on our end.

19:39: We meet with clients.

19:40: regulators, we meet with people because we want people to know that digital assets isn't an there's nothing nefarious, you know, it's not like some asset that you have to meet in a dark alley and, you know, buy it.

19:52: Like back in the day when I was buying Bitcoin, I had to buy it in car parks.

19:57: Yeah, so that was, that's like literally how I got into Bitcoin.

20:00: I met up with people on online forums.

20:03: Hey, OK, I'll meet you at this time.

20:05: You get on Facebook Messenger, you Or organize a, a meet and greet, and then you pick up some BTC in a paper wallet and you give them cash in an envelope.

20:12: It was all peer to peer.

20:14: Now, we don't have to do that, right?

20:15: It's not some dodgy like, it's not even, it wasn't dodgy then.

20:18: It was just a very small asset, very difficult.

20:21: And so we want people to realize that come to us, let's make it easy for you, right?

20:25: The banks, yes, whilst they are difficult, and I've kind of given you a bird's eye macro view as to why they're difficult, and I didn't even know that.

20:32: So, so should we say then that The banks who do allow transfers, I know like CommBank does, for example, but it's a $10,000 cap per month.

20:40: Should we be thanking them for just allowing the 10?

20:43: No, you shouldn't be, absolutely not.

20:45: The banks because the banks could just turn and say, well, like you said before, just blanket rule and say, well, no one's doing anything.

20:49: Like Macquarie came out recently and actually said, no, I had an SMSF with them, and they said we're not doing any transfers.

20:54: Yeah, it's, it's really funny because there's no real rhyme.

20:58: or reason as to which bank is consistently the best or which bank is consistently the worst.

21:03: Like, I've had clients swear by Macquarie that they've had never any issues with them.

21:07: Some have had terrible experiences.

21:09: Other clients, like I was just in, on the cab ride here, and I had a client who was trying to transfer a million dollars from the CBA.

21:17: Had a lot of issues with them, lots of questions, what's this for?

21:20: What's this about?

21:21: OK, we're gonna cap this transaction to $10,000.

21:25: Literally just a fortnight ago, I had a client of mine send me $1.2 million from the CBA as a domestic transfer.

21:32: it went through, so it's like there's no particular like amount that's gonna flag that the the CBA.

21:40: For, for banks, for example, have like a list of like, oh their storm rate, they're blacklisted.

21:46: So that's not the case then.

21:47: It's this, yeah, it's nothing like that.

21:49: So what it actually boils down to is a lot of these decisions aren't even done manually.

21:54: It's all based off this like risk matrix as an algorithm, right?

21:58: So if your biggest expenditure in a week is your weekly grocery run or your petrol top up, and then all of All of a sudden you're trying to make a 100K transfer to Storm rake to buy some Bitcoin.

22:08: Whilst it is a very much a legitimate transfer, it's just out of the normal for based of your regular history history.

22:15: But if you're buying cars, buying real estate, buying stocks, and then there's another 50K transfer to Storm rake, it kind of fits the matrix, fix the, fits within the fit with, I guess, the amount of money you've got coming into the bank.

22:28: Yeah, yeah, like you've got, if you, if you're on the Centrelink payments, for example, and then all of a sudden you've got $100,000 sitting over to raise a red flag.

22:36: But if you're buying and selling properties or or other assets, money coming in and out.

22:39: Yeah, so it's, it's, there's no particular like thing that you have to worry about.

22:44: What I do advise my clients, and just to keep it really simple, just be honest.

22:48: There's, there's be forthright.

22:50: This this comes up so and I, I wanna dig right to the particulars here because everybody's gonna wanna like listening in like, what's he gonna say?

22:58: Should people contact the bank before sending the transaction?

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23:21: If you're looking to invest in crypto through your SMSF, they make it simple.

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23:29: From setting up your crypto SMSF account to helping you stay compliant with Australian regulations, their experts guide you every step of the way.

23:37: You'll get fast on boarding, dedicated support wherever you.

23:40: You might be investing in digital assets, but with CoinStash, you're dealing with real people and that makes all the difference.

23:47: So if you're ready to take control of your crypto super and make your SMSF crypto journey smooth sailing, hit the link in the show notes and book a free call with the CoinStash team today.

23:57: Now, back to the episode.

23:59: Not necessarily, no, because The, what you just need to do is like any other regular transaction that you're gonna be doing.

24:05: If you are doing anything over say $100,000 we do provide guidance and say go in branch, right, and actually do a domestic, what is known as a domestic RTGS or a real-time gross settlement.

24:17: , it's, you'll pay $40 for the privilege of sending your own funds domestically.

24:22: but what they do is they do a lot of their checks and balances in branch, whereas if you're trying to do a large transfer online, it's, it creates a lot more red flags than it's worth.

24:32: So we always recommend to our clients, if you're doing a sizable transfer, just go in branch, and if you're doing anything over your daily online transfer limit, again, do it in branch as well as well.

24:43: Book a time with the bank rather than lining up in the queue because then they're like, this is gonna take too long and then you've got some dedicated time you might be able to build a relationship with the teller or you know, the customer service.

24:54: Whilst you might not want to go about, you know, spending your whole day at the bank, you know, it's, it's worth, it's worth going there, doing it as a 111 and done, and then and not having all your banks, bank accounts frozen.

25:06: Correct.

25:06: So that way you can just go about your day as per usual.

25:09: And And the good thing about that is that let's say you want to get, maybe you want to put $50 million into the market, or $100,000 or $50,000 just do one transfer and then take bites out of the market.

25:18: Just because you've transferred me as your broker, $100,000 doesn't mean you have to put $100,000 into the market straight away.

25:25: You can buy 100, then sit on it, you can buy another 10k, sit on it.

25:29: You don't have to deploy all of the capital.

25:31: That's interesting.

25:31: So basically, get, I'm, I, in my head, I'm like, I'm gonna allocate 100.

25:35: I'm gonna give it over to Bisher, and then he, I'm gonna say 10,000 today, another week, another $10,000 to Ethereum or whatever, but at least the funds are in there rather than having to drip feed in 10,000 be panicking every time.

25:48: So what about the other thing, cos one of the bits of advice I give to people, Visa is, Because people have had their whole bank accounts frozen, I've actually started to to suggest to people, hey, go and open up a bank account somewhere else, OK?

26:03: Transfer funds from your Westpac, for example, over to ANZ and then transfer from ANZ to Storm Break.

26:10: That's what I've been saying, cos if something happens to ANZ it's not going to implode all of your Westpac accounts.

26:16: Yeah.

26:16: So, knowing what you know, is that good advice or we should.

26:20: Not worry about that.

26:21: No, definitely.

26:21: I mean, if you're going to be investing in general, whether it's crypto and dealing with me or stocks or you're doing high value real estate transactions, you should have a segregation across your accounts.

26:33: Like, I've got my, you know, not to go into too much detail, but my self-managed super fund and my family trust bank accounts are separate from my personal spendings and my everyday joint account with my wife, right?

26:43: So they're different, different bank, correct, right?

26:46: So, That's super important because you, you wanna have your high volume, high velocity trans, accounts separate from like the ones that are just, you know, your menial subscriptions, your whatever you've got going on there, your Spotify, you know, your petrol top-ups, whatever.

27:02: You don't want to have that as the same accounts that are doing like a $100,000 half a million dollar settlement, 2000 transfers and trades.

27:09: I think this is kind of, like revelation for people, because most people in Australia.

27:13: , you know, they're with the Commonwealth Bank, they've had it since Dolomite's account, you know, in school, and we've banked with them for 40 years and and their home loans there, their credit cards there, like everything's in CBA and to say to someone, just go open up an account with ANZ it's like, what, another, another bank?

27:32: Yeah, but I think in this day and age, particularly because it's obviously online, it's much easier.

27:37: So, can you tell me then, for the people listening, They really want to know, is there a bank that stands out to you where you've had the most success?

27:45: Are you allowed to divulge this type of information of, of them allowing transfers to, to Storm rack that you see?

27:52: I, I would love to say that there was one standout star and that I could, I would be the first to be able to tell all my clients, just go here, but they're all like mixed bag, right?

28:02: And this is straight from like the trenches.

28:05: Right, there has, you know, we've had a really good run with Westpac for a little while and then all of a sudden they've become difficult.

28:11: So, OK, we can no longer like suggest them, right?

28:15: Macquarie has been fantastic as of late, you know, shout out Macquarie because they've they've changed their policy.

28:20: I've got, I literally had my SMSF with them and they're like, we're not doing crypto.

28:24: I have no idea, right?

28:25: And then you know what will happen 6 months from now if you podcast me again.

28:29: Have another chat.

28:30: It'll be different again.

28:31: So what we always say is, try, try to have a dedicated, I love your strategy, have a dedicated bank account, not just for crypto, but for your investments in general, because if you've got high value transactions going through there on a frequent basis, whether it be for real estate, stocks, precious metals, crypto, it, it, it's, it, the bank accounts kind of fits the story.

28:50: and then on top of that, you know,, preempt the conversation, book a time, head in, do a domestic transfer for the funds that you wish to allocate.

28:59: I think that's the takeaway for everyone, for everyone listening is.

29:02: Cause I, I, I didn't really know this one, which will actually go into the branch, book a time and do what you you call it?

29:09: A domestic RTGS.

29:11: A domestic RTGS.

29:13: Well, could you just say domestic transfer?

29:15: Would that be the same type or the reason why it's a real-time gross settlement is specifically is that you'll pay for, like I said, you'll pay about $40.30 dollars for the privilege of sending your funds, but they do a lot of the checks and balances right then and there.

29:29: And so this is the next bit of information then for people.

29:32: They're standing at the with the customer service person in the bank.

29:36: They now need to be completely upfront, because they're gonna say, obviously, what's the money for?

29:40: And, and that's one of the gripes we have in Australia, you know, you've seen obviously all the social media accounts, they say, No, I'm getting a sex change, or, you know, something like that, those comedy skits, which are hilarious.

29:51: And you obviously the face on the, on the teller's like what do I say now?

29:55: So they go into the branch, they've made this meeting and they're gonna be completely upfront with the, with the person they're now dealing with.

30:01: Hey, I'm transferring 100,000 or whatever the sum is, I'm sending it over to Storm Rake or another crypto agency and.

30:10: It's for buying Bitcoin, right?

30:13: Do they need to go to that level of, I'm gonna send this money in to buy Bitcoin, I'm just or I'm sending it there or?

30:18: No, absolutely, yeah, correct, to invest.

30:20: I would never say that you have to feel obliged to disclose what you're buying, you, what you're investing in, how you're holding it.

30:28: That's, that's really your private matters, and that's, you don't need to disclose that.

30:33: Information they can give though, because your, your business, for example, is also, has it got any like government regulations or is it, is it Austract approved or anything like that?

30:42: Yeah, so we're Austrac registered.

30:44: So you can give them our DCEU DC standing for Digital currency exchange registration number.

30:50: So you can give that to them as well, where we've got our ABN and ACN that you can provide them.

30:54: As well, so they can see more like legitimate information.

30:58: You can, they can pull it up.

30:59: We're fully Melbourne owned and, and operated as well.

31:02: And a phone number, right?

31:03: And we've actually had a number.

31:04: Speaking of that, I've actually had a number of, banking partners give us a call from ANZ, CBA, being like, hey, we're about to make a $200,000 transfer for XYZ clients.

31:16: Can you give us a story about that?

31:17: They're like, yeah, they're a client of ours.

31:19: They're looking to make a transfer to, to make some digital asset investments.

31:22: And they're like, Oh, great, we'll get that approved.

31:24: So whilst we would never disclose what you're buying, what your portfolio looks like, you know, what you're in, we'll obviously disclose, yes, they're absolutely a client of ours and they're buying.

31:34: and we recommend the same for you.

31:35: You don't, like, if.

31:36: You go in branch, Matt, you don't need to disclose to them your strategy, your portfolio, yeah, that's, that's too granular.

31:45: you are making a digital asset I'll give them a hot ticks on the way up, you know,, but yeah, that's honestly, that I think part of it as well, like, you know, as Much as I take shots at the banks for how they approach this, there are some of my clients are in the banking industry, and they are red hot on Bitcoin and digital assets because they see how it could empower and embolden the, the individual, right?

32:13: OK, so thank you for all that because I think that's the big takeaway there.

32:17: Is it true though that the government and maybe even the banks don't want you to move the money out because under Bitcoin, as we know, you can self-custody the Bitcoin.

32:27: Yeah, the, the self-custody piece is really where it kind of unravels the whole fiat banking system.

32:33: So here in Australia, we run something known as fractional reserve banking.

32:37: So for those who are watching at home who don't know what fractional reserve banking is, what it boils down to is, let's say you deposit $100,000 into the bank, you, Matt, have now become an unsecured creditor at your local bank, and they can lend out that $100,000.10 times over.

32:53: So they can lend out a million dollars and poof, just like that.

32:56: It's just pressing buttons.

32:58: So now they've got $100,000.

33:00: In from you, and you have become an unsecured creditor, so they've got $100,000 in deposits, and they've got a million dollars loan that they've given out, which, in which they're earning interest on, right?

33:09: And earning 10%, that's they're giving you, and they're giving you, what, 3, 4%?

33:15: So they earn the interest rate if you're lucky, and you're earning, they're, they're keeping the difference, right?

33:20: So I, I say, cut out the bank entirely.

33:23: If you go straight to Bitcoin and, and other digital assets, you don't need to.

33:27: Have a bank account, and, you know, we'll probably touch on this a little bit later on, but people are really freaked out about these digital IDs.

33:33: And, well, let's talk about that because, I mean, this is a big topic right now.

33:37: We've got Australia who has, is implementing a form of digital ID by having you, if you're over 16, you've got to now show your biometrics and what have you to access of all things Bishia, Google search.

33:50: I mean, it's completely over the top, a complete invasion of privacy.

33:54: But yet, I haven't seen any marches in the street really against it.

33:58: people seem to just like waving it through.

34:00: Now we've seen the UK government, the Labor government there, talk about digital ID and of course all the, the, the, the things we see about digital ID we look over to China and we see this social credit score.

34:15: What do you think's happening in Australia?

34:17: I mean, we're heading down that direction, unfortunately.

34:19: , I, I think that Australia, for all of its greatness and for it's all of its former glory, I came from an immigrant family who migrated here because of its ideals of freedom and personal liberties and everything like that.

34:32: They've eroded a lot over the last 2030 years.

34:35: So digital IDs are a big problem, and that's why I'm trying to get people into Bitcoin as quickly as possible so that they can have an alternative banking system.

34:45: That is not reliant upon government-issued IDs of any description, cause you can, have a Bitcoin wallet with no ID right now, right?

34:53: And that's, that's the beauty of it.

34:55: And then you and I can transact with one another.

34:57: And, you know, if the cafe down the road accepts Bitcoin, great, I don't have to convert my Bitcoin to Aussie dollars to pay them.

35:04: If a car dealership, you know, has Bitcoin accepted, I don't have to convert it.

35:09: From BTC to Aussie dollars.

35:10: just on this.

35:11: People always say to me, Well, you can't even use the Bitcoin.

35:13: No one even accepts the Bitcoin.

35:14: But we know that Emirates Airlines as of next year accepts Bitcoin.

35:18: We've got Ferrari, Porsche, I think maybe in VW in Europe, they already accept Bitcoin as payment.

35:23: What other businesses do you know of that accept Bitcoin?

35:26: So there's a luxury car dealership based in Melbourne, who is going one of the largest, who will be accepting Bitcoin.

35:32: And Storm Rak is helping them with, you know, accepting it, setting up their staff.

35:36: They've got about, you know, 12 salespeople on the floor that need to learn how to accept it and use it in their everyday transactions.

35:44: they, they have some of the most gorgeous cars that you can imagine, and people will be able to pick up a Porsche, a Ferrari, a Bentley using Bitcoin.

35:52: And, and, that's, that's a really powerful thing to think about is that there's even one here in,, in the Goldie, I think, or here in Brisbane, I think they're called, Pickering luxury car garage, and they accept Bitcoin for their, their cars as well.

36:06: So it's not some obscure asset.

36:09: The question would be, like, if it's, if it's so worthless, why would these businesses accept it for payment?

36:16: Right?

36:16: And, and the question then is, If Bitcoin is so worthless, why does, why do we have lenders in Australia who will accept Bitcoin and then give you cash against it?

36:26: It's because they obviously see value in the Bitcoin.

36:28: Correct.

36:28: And then on top of that as well, if it's worthless, please give me some.

36:32: You know what I mean?

36:32: Like, hand it over.

36:34: Like I'll, I'll take it that that are against it don't have it.

36:39: That's right.

36:39: That's right.

36:39: But I'm just saying it's like if it's, if one is worth $180,000 Australian dollars at the moment.

36:45: Cool.

36:45: Like, that's, that's just, people really marry the market price and think that that's what ascribes value.

36:52: This is, as, as an investor, is one of the most important things that I need to get across to my clients on a regular basis, is price is not indicative of value, right?

37:02: You, as an investor, you need to be looking for undervalued.

37:05: Valued assets.

37:06: The market price is just what the trading price is for that given day.

37:10: So people come to me, What's the price of Bitcoin today?

37:12: It's $178,000.

37:14: what's the price of Bitcoin today?

37:15: It's $177,000.

37:17: That's just the price.

37:18: What value understanding value is super important.

37:22: That's how you're gonna become extraordinarily wealthy.

37:25: Like, You put down though is the value of Bitcoin, as in what makes you buy Bitcoin?

37:30: Well, for me, Bitcoin's value in the next 5 to 8 years is a million dollars.

37:35: So for me, it's like anything under, you know, the, the market price today being $180,000 is inconsequential to me because my trajectory is a million dollars.

37:46: I could be wrong, but I, that's the value I've ascribed to it.

37:49: The value comes down to the fact that you don't need to rely on an intermediary, you don't need to rely on the bank, you don't need to rely on the government for you to be able to send and receive value.

37:59: People overcomplicate what.

38:01: The point is, they're always like, Oh, it's this and it's that, and, you know, the detractors are saying it's a Ponzi and it's a scam.

38:08: All that it is, think of it as an email inbox.

38:11: With your email, you have an email address that you can then send and receive information from.

38:16: What Bitcoin is is a receive and send address for value.

38:21: That's it.

38:21: Let me ask you this then, because this, I, I just had a guest on recently and they said, Matthew, I I understand that Bitcoin could be a a new monetary system, exchange of of value, I guess you could say, I give you one Bitcoin etc.

38:36: for goods.

38:38: But I don't see it as an asset, for growth purposes.

38:42: Yeah, what would you say to that?

38:44: Look, it's, Bitcoin is a bit of a platypus in that case, you know, if you look at it one way, it could be a duck.

38:48: If you look at it another way, it's a beaver, but if you look at it again, it's, it's just a platypus, right?

38:53: And so, what I mean by that is that it has many different characteristics.

38:58: And it's, it's not any one thing.

39:01: It can trade and be treated as a currency.

39:04: What we were talking about, whether you're buying it and using it for a cup of coffee or a luxury car or booking your airline tickets, you can use it as a means of exchange.

39:13: It is a store of value because of its scarcity.

39:16: It can appreciate steadily over time, because what you're trading essentially is the denominator, Aussie dollars, US dollars, euros for Bitcoin.

39:25: Almost anything other than fiat currency over the next 10 years is gonna go up.

39:29: Real estate, stocks, precious metals, they've already been running red hot, cryptos, they've been running.

39:34: It comes down to the fact that what you're comparing value against is a worthless fiat currency.

39:41: And so in that environment, it has multiple characteristics.

39:45: But the core, the core value proposition for me for Bitcoin isn't its store of value characteristics, isn't its means of exchange.

39:52: The core is the network for me, which is the ability to send and receive value with zero intermediaries and without having to worry about any third.

40:01: Parties blocking or stopping the transaction.

40:04: We spent so much of today's conversation about how to massage the banks to just be able to invest, for example.

40:11: You don't have to worry about that.

40:12: Once you get into Bitcoin, you can send and receive through a simple function, send receive function from your wallet, just as easy as sending an email or receiving an email.

40:22: Someone then said to me, Well, Bitcoin is really a Ponzi scheme because you need more people to buy into the Bitcoin for the price to go up.

40:30: But what do you really think is the driver of the value of the Bitcoin increasing compared to the fiat currency?

40:37: So we, we've got to be very clear about what a Ponzi scheme is in the first place.

40:41: The fact that the market price goes up as more people buy it is not the definition of a Ponzi scheme.

40:47: The way a Ponzi scheme works is that you need to have, let's say, a closed loop system with a million dollars coming in to pay out new depositors who come through, whilst you're skimming the difference, right?

40:58: That was the, the entire, the guy that started this whole thing was a guy called Charles Ponzi back in the 1920s, right?

41:04: And so, for me, Bitcoin is not a Ponzi scheme.

41:08: We'll be really clear about that.

41:09: Just because the market price goes up as more demand goes up, that's just with any asset on the planet, or any good on the planet.

41:16: Like, my, my son came back from school talking about these things called lobubus, right?

41:22: I was like I had no idea.

41:24: I have no idea what that was.

41:26: It, it turns out it's a craze.

41:28: Right?

41:28: And so now that that craze has faded, the market price has come down.

41:32: So it Lububus aren't a Ponzi, they're just a, you know, a toy that a lot of kids and young adults like and the market price went up when there was a lot of demand and the market price went down to toilet paper during during the COVID, became its own currency, right?

41:47: And so you gotta understand that the market price or the, the way.

41:51: That markets work.

41:53: That's, that's, we live in a capitalist society.

41:55: Stocks go up when there's an increase in demand.

41:57: Precious metals go up when there's an increase in demand.

42:00: And then there's the supply side that you have to factor in when you're making a purchase.

42:05: The reason why I think toys like Lububus or Beanie Kids are not stores of value is that as the value increases in them, more production can come.

42:14: You can make more of them.

42:15: Right?

42:16: And so that's, that's really important to kind of delineate, because for me, Bitcoin has a fixed supply of 21 million.

42:22: So as the demand continues to increase, you can't have more supply come online.

42:27: So that's what makes it a store of value, most defeats the entire Ponzi scheme argument from it as well.

42:33: So, and more importantly, it's just a open and permissionless network similar to the internet.

42:39: And so, as a protocol and as a system, There it doesn't require higher prices to operate.

42:46: So for example, Bitcoin works at 10,000 $1 100,000 dollars, a million, $10 million 500, 1000, 200K, the price of Bitcoin that it trades on is inconsequential.

42:58: The network works perfectly.

43:00: There's, I won't bore the audience with the difficulty of the hash rate adjustment.

43:05: I won't do that.

43:05: I won't do that, but the, the, it's a living breathing network and it operates perfectly fine.

43:11: Even if the price was to drop 50% and I get some.

43:14: discounts to buy my Bitcoins, there's the network continues unaffected.

43:19: And that's really important is that it doesn't require higher prices in order for the network to sustain and continue to grow.

43:27: All right, next, I don't want to put this to you because this is another query, I guess, that pops up in certainly in the community, particularly around new people in the market.

43:36: And that is right now, there's this issue where we feel like the banks are closing the door and getting on ramping, which we've kind of covered off on before, so maybe there's a way through.

43:46: But at the same time, they want to get into the market quickly to get perhaps the prices today and not in 5 years, but they don't have the conviction to do that yet.

43:56: I mean, and so, you know, in my case, you know, you start with a bit and then you end up putting all your super in.

44:00: Right, and then you end up selling all your cars and then you end up selling them on the properties.

44:03: But what would you suggest to people to, to build conviction in this asset class?

44:07: What should they do?

44:09: Get on chain.

44:09: Just start using this stuff, right?

44:11: There's so many ways that you can actually just use it, download a blue wallet or a moon wallet onto your phone, and then send and receive a dollar's worth of Bitcoin.

44:21: There's literally zero risk to you in that scenario, right?

44:25: Come and open an account with Storm rake, buy our minimum transaction size is $200.

44:29: So buy $2000 worth of Bitcoin, have a Play, right?

44:32: There's no risk getting on chain.

44:34: It's like, imagine having a play with the internet in the mid to late 90s and realizing that there's something here, right?

44:41: And having the chance to kind of get into online and get to see different ecosystems pop up.

44:47: Cause that's what you're really doing when you're investing into Bitcoin and crypto, is you're investing into the internet of the future.

44:55: And really, you get on chain, you get online, you start using it.

44:59: You recognize that it's real, right?

45:01: Imagine back in the day, convincing our grandparents that we are going to be sending each other messages on WhatsApp.

45:08: Now my grandmother can't get off WhatsApp.

45:10: She's sending me stickers and memes all the time long.

45:13: You know, it's just become normal.

45:15: And so, that's what will happen with Bitcoin and other digital assets over time.

45:19: So for anybody who is, keen to get started, but doesn't have the utmost conviction to sell everything and go all in, It is a continuum.

45:28: You don't have to end up, you know, selling everything and the, and the dog and the, the, the front porch and, you know, getting rid of all of it.

45:35: Just start small, build up your exposure, get on chain.

45:38: It's one of the most amazing things.

45:39: When people like talk to me and they, I'm just like, over the debate, I said, OK, you know what?

45:44: The debate is over.

45:45: The discussion is over.

45:46: Open your phone, right?

45:47: Open your phone right now and download for me moon wallet.

45:50: They download it, I'm gonna send you a dollar's worth of Bitcoin.

45:53: If you think it's garbage, delete it, delete the app, send it on to someone else, but you've now received a dollar's worth of when you say get on chain, what you mean is actually allocate something to Bitcoin, right?

46:03: It's like be a part of the, the network, right?

46:05: Start the process, learn how to send and receive and buy and sell and what have you.Build the confidence in it.

46:11: And then I think the conviction will come over time.

46:13: The other thing they could do is come onto the crypto Collective.

46:15: We've got now over 1400 members, you know, all, all Australians wanting to grow their wealth.

46:20: So that, you're all welcome to come in.

46:21: Yeah, find the link in the description.

46:23: Look, I'm gonna wrap it up there, Bisher, and just say, look, thank you so much for coming in.

46:26: If people want to find out more about you, I'm going to leave some information about you and your great service in the show notes, they can reach out to you.

46:33: And the great thing is they can even pick up the phone and Maybe even speak to you.

46:36: The one and only Bishop from Storm Break, thank you so much, mate.

46:39: Thanks for having me, my friend.

46:39: It was great to be here.

46:40: Thanks for tuning into Crypto Collective.

46:42: If you've enjoyed this episode, the best way to show your support is to leave a five-star review on Apple Podcast or Spotify and make sure to subscribe to the YouTube channel so you don't miss an episode.

46:53: You can also find more of me at I'm Matthew Fraser on all social media platforms.