Hello, everyone.

This is Omnitalk retail.

I'm Chris Walton.

And I'm Anne Mazinga.

And we are coming to you live from the FMI conference and the Simbi booth.

Booth 108.

Yes.

We're gonna be here all day.

This is our first interview of day two, and we are pleased to introduce to you.

Make sure you get his name right.

Corey Rokin, who is a principal at Oliver Wyman.

Did I say that right?

You said it perfectly well.

Welcome to omnitalk.

Thank you.

I'm excited to be here today.

We're excited to have you.

I'd love for you to just give our audience a little bit of your background role and what Oliver Wyman does for those who might not be familiar.

All right, that's a tall order, but I'll do what I can here.

So, yeah.

Corey Roken, Oliver Wyman.

Oliver Wyman is, at the end of the day, management consultancy.

We are a consulting firm, but our team focuses on the retail space.

And we really cover end to end, from retail strategy, retail growth, down to how you actually drive change in store.

And that's where I spend a lot of my time.

How do you actually make impact in store?

And these days, there's a lot of the traditional levers, but AI technology, robotics has really moved into the store in a way that we haven't seen in recent years.

And that's where I spend a lot of my time, helping our retail clients figure out how to make that work for them.

Yeah.

Corey, we've heard a thing or two about you and your robotics background, so we're excited to talk to you.

Yeah, we have.

I mean, we heard in the halls yesterday that you're one of the foremost experts on in store technology, but particularly in store robotics.

So.

So my question for you is this.

This morning, as we kick things off, so what separates, in your mind, in Store robotics from other tech options that claim to do the same thing?

So when we look at the store and we think about what opportunities you have, you obviously have a lot of things you can do that put more power in the hands of our associates that lets them do their jobs better.

And then you have technology that can actually help augment the workforce as a whole do things.

And we're in a world today where labor in store is a challenge.

We can't fill roles, we can't get enough associates, especially associates with expenses.

And so if we can help augment them, let the people in the store do the jobs that we need people doing and think about opportunities we can leverage Robotics to fill some of those gaps.

That I think is really the power of robotics and a lot of the work with robotics, vision, AI and other technology and how they can unlock capacity in the store is really, I think, going to be the differentiator and where the power is going to be there.

But let me press you on that because like, you know, for people that are pretty, you know, you know, have a pretty strong acumen about this type, you know, you could argue like, you could say, well, why don't I just use fixed position cameras versus robotics?

Like, what's your thought there?

Capital.

Capital.

Okay?

Capital.

Fixed position cameras are very expensive.

You need to cover a full store, like a full grocery store.

You need a massive number of cameras everywhere.

Robotics, you could have one robot going up and down every single aisle throughout the day and that covers that cost in a much more meaningful way.

Now does that give the frequency of data that you need to drive the impact to get the information that you want?

That I think is some of the trade off that we're seeing.

And we're seeing some retailers and some other technologies come out with other options.

Even a lot of players looking at how they can leverage their CCTV camera network information.

But again, a lower capital play of can I get one robot that can move up and down my aisles, that can do things instead of having to cover my entire store with cameras?

That traditionally has been the argument for that type of technology.

And it's kind of a false dichotomy too in a lot of ways.

Because it's not really an either or question.

It's a situational based question at the end of the day.

Is that right?

And they solve different problems sometimes.

Like a robot can do one thing where fixed position cameras can do others.

I also know some retailers have both and have fixed position in some of their stores or in some of their departments.

And robotics that fill some of the gaps.

This is really especially today where there's so many new technologies that we're still trying to learn.

It's really about experimenting, trying different things, finding what works.

And so it's really that mixed approach that we're finding works at this stage.

And I think I know the answer to this question too, based on what you said in the outset.

But why robotics or even fixed position cameras over putting the device in the employees hands to take photos and get the information that way.

We're in a position right now where labor is so tight in our stores that we're forcing our staff to be so busy filling shelves, doing work that they're not doing, we want them to do, which is interacting with customers.

That is right now one of the biggest challenges in traditional retail, especially grocery retail, is our customers, when they walk into store, they no longer have that high service, high experience.

I have a question.

Who do I ask?

Type environment.

We want to bring that back to retail, right?

Yeah, we want to bring that high quality experience back to retail.

And the only way to do that is to unlock the capacity of our store teams that are so busy doing other things, doing tasks that can be supported by technology, by robotics, by other things.

And so that is really what I, what I would like to see what we think is necessary to bring back the unique aspect used to have in full service grocery retail.

Yeah, and it requires training, new training.

How do you specifically train a robot once?

Yeah, you train a robot once, you have to train a new staff member all the time.

And it gets back to what you were saying with like just interacting with customers is a much more natural thing for a new associate to be able to learn how to do.

I imagine that's true.

Multi decade, super experienced retail associate is a thing of the past.

Yeah, we no longer have that.

We no longer have that anymore.

And so we need to create environments where we can still set our associates up for our team members up for success, even if they don't have the generations of experience that we once had behind the store.

So technology can help augment them, can help make them more powerful, more successful from day one.

So it's both, yes, you don't need to train a robot, but it's also, how can robots, how can other technology make an associate more productive, more effective in day one of their job instead of having to go through days, weeks, months of training?

Yeah.

Well, Corey, I'm curious.

You're making some really compelling cases.

I don't think our audience will disagree with you, but where are we on the robot adoption curve right now?

And where do you think we're headed?

When will, when will all of the retailers listening pull the trigger on investing in robotics versus just exploring?

We'll say, I would say we are very much still in the exploration stage.

If you look across all retailers, there are some leading players, there are some who are pushing the mvp, But I think very much we're still in the exploration stage.

I think some version of the technology is inevitable.

Yeah, we talk about this in a lot of different, a lot of the net new technology in the market.

Like, we are somewhat inevitable in this coming into the store.

Is it going to take the same form or same flavor that we see.

Maybe not, but it'll come.

We are very much still in the exploration stage, mainly because firstly, retailers don't always have the economic capacity to do the type of innovation that other industries can.

We also know that at the end of the day, the customer is in person in the store and we're very cautious, very careful about anything that can impede that customer experience.

So just taking it slow, finding the right things that work, that is still the stage we're at.

Again, there are some retailers that are pushing the envelope and that are seeing really incredible impacts because of that.

But I think it's going to be time before you really find that these are the standard across the industry.

But I do think that will come.

So capital being one thing, willingness to put technology in stores and what consumers or customers level of acceptance will be.

Concern about disrupting the in store processes.

Yeah, the in store processes are such are built on discipline, on structure, on train someone to do something and do it well over and over again and you introduce something new, you shake that process.

I keep on coming back to the complexity that's coming into storage and this is just the risk of just causing trouble there.

Which is kind of an interesting point of view to begin with because that's what a robot does, is it comes in and does things the same way every time over and over and over again too.

Which is, which is fascinating.

It's a fascinating dichotomy intellectually when you think about it.

All right, so what are the cut and dried.

Well, two questions.

What are the cut and dried use cases you're seeing or the value that robotics is creating in store number one right now?

And then what are those use cases that are maybe not as well known yet, but that you think are to come in the future?

Yeah, I think as we've seen robotics and we've seen technology come to store areas like inventory management, areas like planogram verification, price verification, those have been somewhat tried and tested use cases, again, they're still.

Every retailer has a different profile on whether those actually make sense for them or not.

But those are pretty well tested use cases.

As we get more, we're seeing retailers start to use it for things like quality checking.

What's the quality of my produce on the shelf?

Am I finding bad apples, bad peaches and do I need to send people to do that rotation and even how you use that information more upstream?

How do I provide that data back up to my central teams, my supply chain, my suppliers?

How do I monetize that information that is very much a lot of where these discussions are going.

But right now it's inventory management, kind of finding out of stocks, finding poor execution in store.

That tends to be the first set of use cases that a lot of retailers are pursuing to then create the basis that this supports the technology and you have the technologies in store.

How can I now make the most use of it?

Corey, what about asset protection?

Are you seeing anybody explore that, that you can speak of or start to look at?

Like, what else can these cameras capture while they're, while the robots are roaming?

Cameras do a great job.

Are a good use case for that.

The introduction of like smart labels, like RFID labels and multidimensional UPCs, really our barcodes really unlock the opportunity to think about new ways of seeing where my product is in my store and is it going places I don't want it to go.

So I do think that that's going to be.

I don't know if robotics themselves are going to be the answer to that.

I think it could be, yeah.

I think there's a lot of different technologies that are trying to play that space.

Certainly there's a challenge right now in store less so than it was.

It's less kind of agenda item number one than it was.

Yeah, but it still is for sure a area to continue to think about.

Well, let's get you out of here on this question, Corey.

We've been asking a lot of people that we've been talking to here at FMI about how the consumer experience is going to change in grocery in the next five years or so.

How do you feel operations are going to change in a grocery store in the next five years?

Let's talk about it from the retailer's perspective.

Well, and I kind of touched on this earlier.

I would like to.

I think we're expecting to see a lot of this technology will free up capacity for our store team members to spend more time with our customers.

Right.

We've trained our associates and our team members.

We've trained our customers essentially limit interaction in some ways to not go up to someone and ask, hey, where do I find X product?

Or I'm looking for X, Y, Z type thing for some recipe I'm making.

I think you're going to start to see that change.

I think you're going to start to see those interactions come back to retail both as you free up capacity from those team members, but also as you provide them better access to information.

Right.

If a team member can use the latest AI to answer a question like I walk up and I say, what is a good tomato to use for stewing?

The average associate in store would have no idea what that answer is.

For many retailers out there, technology can actually enable that and can help them answer those questions and provide better service to our customers.

I think the return of service to some degree to the store and how we unlock labor from our stores to enable to deliver that, I think is going to be a key part of where we see the customer experience evolve.

Nice.

So, Corey, what is the best tomato for?

Do not ask me.

I'll go ask some generative AI tool.

The same way that I would like to see associates do that.

Oh, man.

You did make me think about one.

Thing, though, because I imagine you look at an average grocery P and L more than I do, and, you know, one of the questions that you raised in the beginning was, you know, there's always the fear.

You know, I think when robotics are at play, like, it's, you know, it's going to take customers or employees jobs, but at the end of the day, like in a grocery operation, the point I think that you're also making, that I was talking about with somebody yesterday, is the payroll's been stripped out of most of these operations already.

There's not much more you can cut, really.

Right.

So it is about freeing them up to do the things that they're best suited to do.

Is that right?

We are still in a world right now in grocery retail where labor is a challenge.

We would like to be able to staff more people in our store.

We just can't fill spots or fill them with experience enough people.

And so we need to find ways to say this is where we need our staff to spend their most amount of time and what we need them to focus on and use technology to fill the gaps where we can.

So for me, in my opinion, has nothing to do with taking labor at a store.

It's more about we are labor constrained and how do we allocate us the highest value.

We need to get more things done.

Exactly.

Gotta figure out where to get more.

And so customer interaction, doing complex prep, that kind of stuff, that is exactly what I want.

My store team members focused on walking up and down aisles, checking my inventory levels.

Maybe that's something that robotics can take off their plate.

Right?

Yeah.

Awesome.

Awesome.

Well, Corey, thank you, man.

That was a great conversation.

Thank you.

Yeah, you were, you were ready to go here bright and early this morning.

Here.

Had a lot of coffee walking in here, so shaking a bit here.

Really well, I think you do need to follow up on what the best tomato is for stewing.

I'll come back to you with that.

Our listeners are going to be messaging us, so we'll just forward all those dms right to you.

Perfect.

I'm dying to know.

All right.

And thanks to Simbi for sponsoring all our coverage here today.

And, Anne, we'll be back all day.

And until then, be careful out there.