Welcome to another episode of Turning the Table, my

name is Adam Lamb and I'm a career coach for chefs and hospitality

professionals@cheflifecoaching.com.

And we have our co-host, Jim Taylor of Benchmark 60.

Welcome Jim.

Morning

or afternoon.

I think I say that , depending on the time zone, how are you?

Right, right, right.

Great.

This is episode one 16.

What do you stand for and how would anybody know?

On this episode, we'll be speaking to chef, advocate and antagonist

for the hospitality industry.

Jensen Cummings, about several posts he created lately that caught

the attention of both Jim and me because he's using a trigger word

that always gets us lit up values.

And we're gonna be bringing him in about 30 seconds, and you'll wanna

stick around because we're gonna talk about three things you can do right

now to get clear on your core values, how to leverage them to find your

perfect place of employment, and also how to supercharge your career growth.

And at the end of the show, we have a very special announcement

that you're gonna want to hear.

You'll be the very first ones to know about this, and we're

really, really, really excited.

We're gonna be talking about a lot of stuff.

All the links to the videos and other things discussed in the show can be

found in the comments, in the show notes.

And we wanna welcome our good friend.

Jenson Cummings.

Welcome

chef.

Happy to be here.

Chef.

How are you?

A picture of us.

A selfie picture of us.

And I saw Jim smile cuz he could see me in the back studio

being Yeah, you were busted.

That's amazing.

Taking your picture.

I love doing it cuz my setup is like in the, in the basement.

I got baffling behind me.

I'm on a stack of books and this is how you get shit done in the,

in the content game, you know?

Well,

dude, look at me.

I'm in the dish.

You know, what are you gonna do?

? For those of you who've, you know, have been living under a rock

for the last four years, Jensen Cummings is a fifth generation chef.

He's got 22 years in the restaurant industry.

He's got 400 episodes of his best Serve podcast, which he started in his car with

towels hanging over the windows during covid because said, because he said

something has gotta get done, brother.

Yeah, much respect.

There can be lots of links for everybody to,

they were hoodies that I had hanging around me

in the parking lot of my gym.

Right, right, right.

And we actually coming up.

November 18th.

Wow.

This week, November 18th.

Tomorrow is the three year anniversary of the launch of Besser podcast as an

audio only podcast on Anchor, right?

Yeah.

And then when we really got deep into, it was March 18th, 2020.

Went live on Facebook for the first time.

No idea what the hell I was doing.

Was horrible shows to start, but I just needed to stay connected

with people's restaurants.

Shut down, right?

Yeah.

And I was.

Five and a half months, seven days a week with an average of nine shows a week.

It was just to stay connected with people that I learn a lot about.

What it took to kind of tell stories, create content, and

that's how everything built.

Just start making, start putting your story out there no matter

how clumsy and awkward it is.

And I know we're gonna get Absolutely.

We a lot how we're

gonna get into that.

Yeah.

You know, before we, before we dive into a lot of that stuff though I

was wondering if we could Do a tip of the toque to the folks at Chow

Bobby Mulvaney from Sacramento.

The I got your back project.

I was wondering if we could just kind of take temperature of the room, you

know, are you rare, medium, rare?

Medium.

Medium.

Well burnt.

Jim, what's your temperature today?

You

know what, I'm, I'm feeling pretty good today.

I mean, I'm so, I guess I'm, I mean, rare to meet him.

Real.

I'm not burned today, . I'm not, I don't think I'm meeting well.

Could have slept a little better last night.

We have a 12 week old.

She's 12 weeks today.

Congratulations.

Congrats.

So she didn't wanna look.

She was partying all night last night.

Good time.

But, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm looking forward to this conversation.

I think there's good momentum starting to be some good momentum

in terms of people starting to look at things a little bit differently.

And I'm really excited, you know, what we get into today in our discussion.

So, you know, I think I'm somewhere in the medium rare, I'm

in a previous spot.

Yeah.

And I did wanna mention that, you know Jensen, you're a chef, but

you're also much more than a podcaster.

You're a consultant, you're a coach.

And you are one of the ones out at the tip of the spear with this

hashtag new hospitality culture.

And I say thank you very much.

And I know that you've been doing this, as you said, without really

knowing what you're doing because you lived it, you saw it and you said it

can't fucking go on any longer period.

Yeah, I mean, that was a part of the problem.

I know.

We'll, we'll talk about that.

And what's interesting when you talking about taking, you know,

taking Tap and Yeah, shout out to Chow Culinary Hospitality, outreach

Wellness, John Hinman, Aaron Boyle.

What they're doing is, I think, really incredible.

Jasmine, you know what, what I mean, what, what Patrick and I got your Back is doing

out there, and there's a lot of entities.

Entities not nine to five.

I know we all collaborate with a lot of these organizations and

the fact that they're asking.

Just slow the fuck down.

Take a second and like check in.

I think it's something that It's incredibly valuable and we haven't

done enough of personally and how that blends into professionally mm-hmm.

. And so what's interesting for me is my default is, is

for sure medium rare, right?

Which is, I think in the kitchen, the default of how you cook a steak.

Anyway, and for me right now, I think I'm a little bit more medium.

I think I have so much excitement and so many great things are

happening within the industry.

You mentioned the 12 week old.

13 week old.

Oh, really?

And and right now we're in like rsv.

I can, I can't remember what the hell that stands for, but whatever that sickness

is with kids and Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

You know, and so we've been like, sick on and off for like three

weeks and kids have missed school and, you know, all of that's going.

I got to go to breakfast with, with the, the middle kid who's in kindergarten.

You know, and make a tiny little Turkey.

So like a lot of exciting things, but also at the same time, sleep

deprivation and sickness and like we've gone through, I don't know

how many boxes of Kleenex and stuff.

So I think it's an emotional rollercoaster.

It's snowing right now in Denver.

So it's just like a lot of highs and lows, a lot of peaks and bits right now.

And and I think just being aware of that, I'm excited and I'm also

like, It's like, it's, it's not gonna be spring for a minute.

So, yeah.

You know, I, you know, I wanna thank you for shouting out to

all those people, Jensen, because, you know, I thought, man, why don't

we just model this on the show?

Like, let's show other people what that actually looks like.

At least a small piece, because it doesn't take any time, doesn't take any money.

And yet it's such a great tool for not only gauging where the, where

the room is or the container is emotionally, but also this idea.

You know, actually showing, like doing something that the staff can

actually see, touch, see, and hear, feel with their heart that we give a

shit enough about them actually ask.

Right.

So if I got it, you're Jim, you're a medium mirror?

Yeah, I think so.

And, and Jensen, you're about the same.

Oh, I think I'm medium.

Okay.

Right.

Well I'm gonna, I'm gonna call myself out and I'm gonna

say I am burnt and well done.

And Don't really want to go into a lot of it, but I am not okay.

And that's okay.

So, you know, I almost lost somebody that I love very, very dearly Oh.

At the beginning of the week.

And the idea that I would never get a chance to tell them I

don't, but I love them again.

This fucking killed me.

So I'm still trying to process that stuff and don't wanna

do that here on this space.

I sit with men in circles and do men's work, and I've gotta call out to a

couple buddies who are gonna help me process this stuff in a safe container

so I can just fucking let it all go, because I'm finding myself stumbling a

little bit, you know, from day to day, moment to moment, previous to the column,

like walking around the house, like I had no idea what the hell I'm doing.

And everything worked out fine in the end, but the 48, 72 hours of,

of constant running and, and you.

Making sure that there was medical attention and, and legal representation.

And, and not knowing.

Just not knowing.

And it took me slowing down and coming home from the mountains.

And that's when it really fucking hit me, man.

I would just, if I actually let myself get there emotionally,

I know I would be undone.

Undone man.

And not even knowing how to get back.

So I went on Facebook and I wrote this post.

And I said, listen, I just need to say something I, I don't

want anybody to ask about.

Like, I don't need your prayers or your thoughts, right?

I'm like, what I want you to do is I want you to grab somebody and I want

you to show them how much you love them.

So there's a couple different refrains in this.

I'm sitting on my porch in the rain right now, reflecting on

the vents of the past 72 hours.

What I'm most present to is how fragile and precious life is, and how the

bonds that tie us together can unravel.

So, All we've come to know and rely on can dramatically change in the blink

of an eye on a darkened county or a county road late at night, and nothing

will ever be the same after that.

And in this moment, I'm a man blessed beyond my current comprehension

because I have another day to tell somebody just how much I love them.

And yet I know that this opportunity could have just as easily been

lost to me for all time on a darkened county road late at night.

Grab somebody you love right now.

Hold them so tightly that they never, ever doubt how much you love them

because it's later than you think.

And time is running out.

Some of us won't ever get that chance again, and for.

I agree.

Their loss sitting on my porch in the rain bottom.

Yeah, man.

And if anybody would like to have a copy of that pdf and frame it and put it

somewhere, they can see it every day.

Because my experience was, is that I thought today was

gonna be the same as yesterday.

I thought tomorrow's gonna be the same as today, and never once thought

that I needed to take a moment to.

Tell somebody how I, how much I love them, because who knows

what the hell's gonna happen.

And then it happened and it's like, holy shit man.

So chef life coaching.com or slash porch if you want it.

I, it's served me.

And like I said, I'm, I'm still burnt, so if it's okay that I'm

not okay, then I get to put my big boy pants on and ask for what I.

Right.

Which is something that in our industry, or speaking specifically for me as

a man, got no practice at mm-hmm.

, right?

Suck it up, sunshine.

Keep going.

Don't ask.

Just keep going.

And so what I'm gonna ask for right now in this space is some

compassion and understanding that I might stumble a little bit.

But I'll get back on the topic . And I don't really need anything else other

than, you know, just some clarity, some transparency, understanding.

And know that, you know, all of us have days like this.

All of us have moments like this.

And if we can ask for what we need, it goes a hell of a lot longer towards

our mental and emotional health.

Instead of holding it all in thinking, nobody gives a shit

that your voice doesn't matter.

And that's why every once in a while we wanna make sure that everyone else

knows that, you know, organizations like the Burn Chef Project, you know,

four out five hospitality professionals report having experienced at least one

mental health issue during their career.

So for free resources in the United States and Canada, you can text home

H O M E to 7 4 1 7 41 in the uk.

You can text a burnt Chef to 8 5 2 5 8.

And they have services in Ireland, New Zealand, and Australia again.

And we thank them for their.

for our mental health, Adam.

Cause I don't know.

I don't know about you.

Jenson.

. We had a conversation a couple months ago.

He said, you're thinking too small.

Like you're thinking too small.

Dude, that I said that to you.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You said that to me.

You challenged my vision or my, where I wanted to be.

And that's when I came back and said, okay, my stand is that we is that we

don't lose another hospitality profess.

Due to suicide because they didn't have access to resources, they

thought that their voices did matter and that no one cared.

That's my mission, and that's why I'm so , you know, kind of tickled

that we could actually model that for other people and say, Hey,

listen, let's just take a second.

Let's just check the temperature in the room.

What the fuck is going on?

Need a minute?

I can, I'll cover your station , whatever

that is.

So, yeah, you know, I think that's, that's interesting.

when I like kind of dubbed a mental health me and plus like years ago, was an

attempt to try and reconcile things that historically we're good at and things

historically that we fucking suck at.

Yep.

And so our mental health has just been horrible.

Our physical health, our emotional health, our financial health has.

Been garbage.

It's been absolute garbage.

Yep.

Yet we do some things really well.

Our mason Plus setting your stations.

Right.

Those check-ins that we do for pre-shift.

Yes.

Can we, can we internalize those and then also be able to externalize

those into methods, approaches, systems, steps of service.

Steps of of operations.

Mm-hmm.

that allow us to deploy a strength against a historical.

And so, you know, can we make it more matter of fact we've talked

about, I got your back a few times.

He's got the box right that just is shoebox, where somebody drops one of

four colors that anonymously, that then expresses kind of where you're at.

Mm-hmm.

and somebody can look at that and take a temperature of the whole team.

Right.

And then be able to do something about it and have the, the methodology and the

tools to be able to do something about it.

So it can be very matter of fact.

Mm-hmm.

, right?

It doesn't always have to be so heavy, so daunting, right?

So you can be like, here's today's specials.

Here's low calls, here's 86 Es, and we're feeling a little blue today.

So what are we gonna do to rally around each.

Right.

Oh yeah.

Awesome, awesome.

Noted.

Got it.

Okay, let's, let's deploy the two, three things that we know how

to do in a situation like this.

Let's just have a little bit more of, of an awareness and not just shout

30 seconds to the window, but take a moment to put your hand on that person's

shoulder, look them in the eye and say, are we good in 30 seconds, be

that the actual ticket you're calling or the dynamic at play between humans.

Couldn't agree more.

Part of what I'm always excited and interested.

When we're able to take, again, what we are historically good

at and deploy against things we're historically bad at now.

Now I feel like I've gotta chime in here for a second.

Go ahead, Adam.

I mean, well, you know, you and I have been spending quite a bit of time

together over the last six months, and one thing that I know about

you is that you are one of the most dedicated guys to helping other people.

Especially people in our industry that are, you know, how do we move forward?

How do I find a way out of the rut?

How do I do things differently?

How do I look through a different lens?

Right?

And you know, you do a lot of work for yourself.

You do a lot of work with men's groups.

You do a lot of work.

Work with chefs.

Yeah.

But let me tell you something from the other side of the continent, you

can call me any day of the week, man.

. Anyone else who's listen.

You know, if, if you need that minute, I know you have people

in your life for that, but you need that minute, you call me

any day.

Well, and, and here's the thing, Jim, and I wanna say thank you because I think

we all, like, I went from thinking that no one gave a shit to like kind of being

overwhelmed with like offers for people.

Like, oh, you can reach out to me.

And I also get that, you know, people got shit going on in their lives.

So I'm like connecting with people, leaving messages knowing that they have

lives of their own, which kinda led me down the rabbit hole of like, this

idea of who's like, who's your 2:00 AM.

Like, who do you call when you wreck your car at two o'clock in the morning?

And will they actually pick up and how critical that is that

we have at least one person.

You know, I was supposed to go to The Bahamas with my wife this

week to work on a retreat to cook for her, cook for her group.

And I kept saying, Nope, I'm not supposed to go.

I'm not like, I'm checking in with my inner guidance.

So like, no, I like it.

Doesn't make any sense.

Put her on the plane Sunday or Sunday morning at six o'clock.

One o'clock in the morning that following, I get a text from my ex-wife.

Hmm.

And so, you know, sometimes things like link together.

So I appreciate that.

I need another 2:00 AM buddy.

Thank you Jason.

I know like 2 45 is usually when you're answering your phone for

those 14 minute appointments.

Right.

I've had 4:00 AM calls with you.

You can, I know you have call with me Denver time.

I know you're lucky cuz it's six you guys it's 6:00 AM for you.

. Yeah.

I've even had Sean Walsh, who I know.

We all, we all know.

Mm-hmm respect as well.

He's gotten on with me.

We hold each other accountable and he's 3:00 AM cuz he is in San Diego.

So yeah, in more respect, we have an up at two 30 in the morning Denver time.

And.

I'm on that hustle man, but allows me to then also go from 7 45 to eight

30 and hang out with my boy, right?

And, and make little paper turkeys and like do that life something I never got

to do when I was in the kitchen, right?

I missed every wedding I missed.

I mean, Betsy had to go stag to every single one of her best

friend's weddings and, and any other family event or anything like that.

So the fact that I can get up at two 30 in the morning, have

that moment of solace and.

Be able to do my thing, be able to put some positivity and some action

out into the world, and then be able to take an hour and a half, however

much time in the morning it puts around, take the the boys to school.

Mm-hmm.

like that, that's meaningful.

Mm-hmm.

. Cause I have intention to do that.

, and that's what we're talking about right now.

We have intention to be able to speak differently, think differently, act

differently, communicate differently.

How do we then take that and apply it to the approach both

personally and professionally?

That's mm-hmm.

, that's gonna be the trick.

That's the unlock.

Yeah.

So, so I completely, yeah.

Because it leads into the topic of the conversation today.

You know, values, like, do you have any, and how the hell would

anybody else know about that?

Well, we'll get to that in a second cuz I wanna round back

to, I got your back for a second.

Because yes, it, it's one thing to understand where everybody's at, but

they've actually looked at a solution step, which is there is always

somebody on staff that's trained.

not necessarily being interventionist, but as like a check-in.

And these are the people that are wearing these little purple hand.

Pins, so there's always two on staff so that they can get

pointed out in the lineup.

Like, listen, this is totally anonymous.

But if you feel like you actually need to spend some time with somebody that is the

person that you want to get, and they're actually scheduled and worked around so

that they are so that they can be not only emotionally available, but time available.

Because I've, during Covid, I've had conversations with service

staff in a guest hallway and.

Server is completely breaking down and she's like looking over her shoulder cuz

people are walking, walking past her.

And I just look her straight in the eye.

I'm like, go ahead.

I'm strong enough to hold this space for you right now.

I don't give a shit about what they think, right?

You need, I need, I can be completely 100% present for you.

And that could have gone on for 10 minutes, 15 minutes.

And I also know that there have been conversations I've had at my office

with the door closed and another person.

and if and another person that acts as a facilitator because I need them

to know like, nothing is gonna take me away from you in this moment.

Okay?

So you need to go where you need to go and let it all hang out cuz

nobody's like looking away or like making it up that it's not important

or shit, we gotta get on the line.

None of that crap because an infrastructure is set and.

Yep.

You know, the awareness is good.

It's a good step.

And that's what I love about some of the organizations that we're aligned

with and are working with because they actually have solutions, right?

They didn't just say, well, it's awareness is enough.

No, man, awareness is not enough.

Yeah.

You gotta make it programmatic.

It's interesting the, the challenge, so you mentioned the challenge I put

to you the challenge I put to a, a.

A lot of those organizations is how we actually apply it to the business model.

Correct.

Right.

And so one of the things that I told them as like we've built,

we are, we are the warehouse.

Now what Best Serve does, especially through the strategy consulting

side, and then hyper-specific to what we call workplaces Worth working,

is developing the actual programs.

And so I was like, look, here's the thing.

I love what you're.

It's not easy for a restaurant to onboard that into our programs.

It's just not , right?

It's not realistic.

I know who I should get what from?

Who do I get mental health first aid training from?

Okay, we have peer network stuff.

All right?

There's other resources and training.

All right, now I'm working with another group for diversity,

equity, inclusion, belonging.

But when do those things happen and who needs to be involved and how much does

it cost and how much time does it take?

Easy to be able to put into operational systems.

Correct.

So a lot of those solutions are living in a vacuum right now, and what we're trying

to do is apply them to the, to the model.

Because what we house is the financial aspects of it.

Correct.

The business aspect of it, the operational aspect.

So any solution you have, My team, especially Andrew Parr,

who's the genius behind all this, I just say ridiculous things.

He figures out how to actually work is we can create from, from end to end.

Here's the investment model.

Here's how much it's gonna cost.

We've restructured and operating budget completely to be able to

be, matter of fact, the way that we want to do business in the future.

Not copy and paste the old business model, right?

But if I can't figure out a way to bring your solution, Into existence in an

equitable, profitable, and sustainable way, right than it lives in a vacuum.

And that's part of where we're at right now, is we need to

be able to take these amazing solutions and make them actionable.

And make them part of the business model, because otherwise you're always counting

on that one person who decided, this is my, I'm gonna champion this today

for right now because I'm interested.

And they leave.

And then that program crumbles because it's not a part of the business model.

So that's, it's not strategic,

is what you're saying?

Yeah, it's,

it's too much reli.

On an individual to carry that torch.

And what we wanna do is make it matter of factor the way that the business operates,

so that anybody and everybody can contribute in meaningful ways, be it small

or carrying the ball all the way down the field, whatever that ends up being.

And that right now, Is the solution that we work on.

So we have things like the w c builder.

We believe that the four buckets of investment in your people, your most

valuable asset, you guys know wages, benefits, culture, and education.

Mm-hmm.

. And so our operating budget has those line items.

All 346 line items in the budget are meant to be able to invest in all the

right areas, not just blindly follow prime costs, not just blindly follow.

The numbers that Benchmark 60 and Jim, look at when we look at the way we're

scheduling, cuz we fucking suck at forecast, we thought about how much I

have to blow up status quo of industry standards that we're gonna go there.

That's, that's, that's the modality that we have to get to.

We have to, it cannot be.

A different color lipstick.

It has to be foundational.

So I completely, you know, champion all of that because for me it

comes down to foundational principles.

Like are you gonna manage by personality?

Are you gonna manage by standard?

Are you gonna manage by process and.

I know that there's a lot of people out there who like look at that stuff

and go, eh, you know, like, what?

It's not creative enough.

You don't have the flare in it.

Like, what the fuck?

I remember getting challenged by this general manager after they took

over, Starwood took over this hotel.

They had 65 hotels at that time.

Starwood, one of the biggest hotel REITs in the world.

Now the the transition general manager comes walking into the kitchen.

Now, mind you, Hair down to here.

It's a French braid in my back.

I've got pencil stuck in like a geisha.

. Jensen Cummings: This fucking tattooed

to do things.

No, no, no.

He just kind of sid up to me and he is like, you know, chef,

you do a really great job here.

Like, like what you do is fantastic the other way.

I like it.

I'm just curious.

Do you, do you always wanna be chained the stove?

Do you wanna work in your business or you wanna work on your business?

And I'm like, what?

Like, I'd never heard that before.

Mm-hmm.

, did you know the next day I came in and I, I had my head shaved.

I mean, I know that he wasn't telling me to shave my head.

He never fucking brought it up.

Sure, yeah.

But as a outward manifestation of my, of my creativity and my bohemian

lifestyle, he challenged me right up.

I'm like, man, I don't want, like, I don't wanna be changed.

And then this gets me to, to our next.

. I love to say why we brought you on, but I always love that at in this

I'm here, Adam, in this container.

In this container.

It goes everywhere.

I mean, our conversations are always so rich, but I wanted to say that you

clearly made a decision to get up at two 30 in the morning to do a certain

thing for a certain time so that you can be present for your children

in the morning when they get up.

Mm-hmm.

. To me, that sounds like you've got your fucking values figure.

And that you've taken action to actually make those values manifest in the world.

I put in, I put in the chat two links to Instagram videos that that

both Jim and I were like Florida.

I'm like, that's fucking awesome.

Talking about values, like what do you stand for?

Like, how do you know?

And I said, okay, that's it.

Let's do this.

And so they're in the chat, but I don't wanna take words out of

your mouth, like, why values?

. Why congruency?

Why now?

Why are

they important now?

I mean, it's long, long overdue.

Here's an interesting thing.

I have been a part of owned multiple restaurants where we wrote really

cool fucking words in graffiti on the wall that were like, this is

what we believe in, and never talked about it ever again, ever again.

But it looked really cool and we did a press release.

And the media liked it, and so again, it has to become

foundational to the business, right?

So I'm always like thinking about that.

I have been talking a lot about my own inequity in the way that I

approach understanding what it meant to be a chef, what it meant to be a

leader, a manager, a boss, an owner, a representative of hospitality.

So often that happens because we get into this industry when

we're 14, 15, 16, 17 years old.

We don't fucking know any better.

Nobody comes an investment banker at 17 . Right?

And so we get stuck in that mindset.

Mm-hmm.

, and we keep treating ourselves like we're 16 year old kids

when we're grown ass adults.

Mm-hmm.

. And should be treating ourselves in each other as such, but we don't.

We're stuck in that place.

And so one of the things I think this really started made with Kim Smith's

book, radical Candor, like had me thinking about rock stars and superstars.

If you don't know about, look into it, superstars have a steep trajectory.

Rock stars have a more stable trajectory.

And I think about that.

And so it got me really thinking about attributes and skills.

And how we correlate those.

And so rock stars are those ones that just show up.

They're amazing at their job.

Maybe they're a great trainer because they know exactly how to like articulate

what it takes to do this one job because it is their sole focus.

And a superstar is more like they wanna be able to get to that leadership role.

They wanna ascend their ambitious, they wanna do all the

stations and be able to move up.

And what happens a lot is we put rock stars.

Into roles that are for superstars.

The rockstar doesn't wanna be a manager.

How often have you seen your best cook, your best server, your best

bartender, become your worst manager?

Because we don't understand who they are.

We put them into this, this linear expectation, and then they

struggle and then they find their way out the door one way or the.

And so I've been thinking about attributes and skills a lot.

I ask people all the time, and this is part of what you saw on social

media, all I do is ask questions.

That's all I.

That's why I'm good at anything social media.

It's why I'm good at at leadership, it's why I'm good at consulting,

because I ask questions and so I ask the question, what do you value most?

What attributes are most important to you in a great employee, a great coworker,

and I get all of these attributes.

People say, coach.

Team player motivated, right?

That they are punctual, like all of these things.

I go, that's amazing.

That sounds like a great person to work alongside.

Then I'll ask, what do you base raises and promotions on?

And they flip and everything is ROI skills based.

They have to prove to me that they bring value to the company, that they

can be productive in X, Y, and z.

And then I'll ask a follow up.

So you must deploy an open book management policy and program, allowing

them the opportunity to understand those numbers to the depth and degree

that they can then say, here is exactly how I create value in the, within

the construct of this business model.

Well, I use a lot of fucking big words there.

And they go, whoa, whoa.

No, we don't show them any of the numbers.

Right?

But would we be able to tell you the value?

That they bring to your business.

And we're telling people that attributes matter, that that's what it means to be

a great employee, a great coworker, and then they never are allowed to be able to

accomplish anything within that construct.

And so what you end up with, and I like, I like what Simon Sinek does

when he, when he talks about the Navy seals, how they evaluate the, the most

dynamic team on the planet, right?

And they have, they have an access.

One says performance, and the other says trust.

Right.

And what they obviously want is a person in the top right corner,

high trust, high performer.

The the worst person is low trust, low performer.

Those are easy, right?

But you would think a high performer, at any rate, would be the most valuable.

But they think that a high performer of low trust is the most toxic

person you can have on a team.

Sure.

They would rather have somebody high trust of medium or even low perform.

Over somebody who's a high performer of low trust.

And what that means to me is we so often know who is the highest

performer, who's an asshole that nobody wants to work with, right?

But they're the highest paid person because they're the most productive

and they've checked more of your skills-based pay and promotion.

Versus the person who everybody wants to work around who may be a little bit

slower on the, on the pickup, who may not be that high, high performer, but

they raise up everybody around them.

Those are the people that I'm the most interested in now.

Mm-hmm.

that I overlooked every single time when I was in it.

Totally get it.

And you know, when you're talking about radical candor or reminded me

of this really, really, Management book called the Peter Principle,

which was written in the fifties.

And the general premise it was, is that in any organization, people will be promoted

to their level of incompetence because.

Just because you're a good server doesn't mean you're a good manager, right?

Mm-hmm.

, and I know in speaking with Jim, by the way, Jim, I don't think that you're

slow on the pickup or anything, but I totally get, if you were on the floor,

I would wanna work with you because for me it's high trust and high skill.

What?

Say

? Jensen Cummings: Yeah.

That, that top right quarter, that's most you're going for, for sure.

It's, but when it's not clear cut.

It's when it's not obvious.

Right.

And the thing about it is, and you mentioned this, we have all these tropes

that we perpetuate of like, you're only as good as your next plate up.

Mm-hmm.

Leave your shit at the door.

Smile, that's party over your uniform.

Right.

We are perpetuating those, hate that shit.

And so again, the 17 year old kid will like, that's what I have to

do to be successful in this model.

And so what I thought I had to do to be successful was exactly that.

So I had.

The toughest, the strongest.

I had to work harder than anybody.

I had to show up early.

I had to stay late.

I had to come in unpaid.

There's a story I tell that used to be a story of a badge of honor

that I'm like, fuck, what an idiot.

Why did, right?

That was the thing.

I went almost seven years without taking a single sick day.

And boys, I like throwing up in fucking trash cans between services.

Sick.

Mm-hmm.

, right?

And I also thought, you know what?

I'm gonna let somebody else take a day off.

I'm gonna pick up their shift.

I'm gonna hold it down.

And in those micro moments, there absolutely was a level of of respect

that that that individual had for me.

Going, wow, you're willing to do that for me, that you're

willing to lead from the front.

And we have to understand that that is a razor thin line that we're walking.

Because the other thing that I did was I show.

I modeled that the only way that you can be successful is to do what I do, right?

And what I do is not take care of myself.

What I do is show up every single day no matter what.

And what that does, it sets an unrealistic expectation.

Mm-hmm.

, and people go, I don't, I don't want that.

And then I go, well, I don't want you to work here then.

Right.

And so we are creating this dynamic where it's, it's a actually a race to the.

Even though we think that the trajectory is this way, we're sliding

down that scale, not up that scale.

And that's why we burned so hot for so long, 22 years that

I've been in the industry.

And that that timing especially was, you know, the food network effect

of, of opening a lot of eyes to food and the culture behind it, and

also making it into a caricature of.

That I and so many of us bought into because we did go from

being, you know, slightly outcast.

I tried to pretend that I was smarter than the cool kids and

cooler than the smart kids.

First out, I was actually not as smart as the smart kids and

not as cool as the cool kids.

Right.

Cause

you the game, you're not gonna play that.

Right.

I found that when I found the kitchen, I found where I could be great at something.

Mm-hmm.

and I was 17 years old and as you mentioned, fifth generation.

So it's my family restaurant.

We've had restaurants since 1900.

Now I'm like, how do I then apply what I now know to leave

it better than we found it?

Because now I do have those young kids.

Now I'm like, would I want them to be the sixth generation of our family

to be of service to this industry?

And a few years back, my answer was absolutely fucking not, no chance.

And so I'd either walk away and I did in several ways and tried to,

and I decided I had to like triple.

Hmm.

We have to do something different.

We have to invest in a different model, and that's what we're building now.

Because if I can hold my head high and say, We left it better than we found

it, and that my kids with no pressure from me can decide to be the next

generation or anybody because we're always trying to empower and educate

the future leaders of this industry.

Mm-hmm.

, it is not the fault of any 22 year old kid that is entitled, quote unquote,

that is not as committed, that is not as dedicated, that is not as motivated.

That's not as hard working the inequity of this industry.

It's our fault as elders of this industry.

We built this and now we're trying to blame.

Because they're not willing to go through the same bullshit that we

did and call that a badge of honor.

Correct.

They're like, why would I want your abusive, toxic job culture

and get paid 1214, $16 an hour?

Yes.

I know you lived in a house with four people eating Top Ramen, remembering

when you got a raise up to 7 25 an hour.

This is me and I'm gonna cash shade on you because you're smarter than

I am and you have options and.

Fuck you.

I'm gonna go flip shit on eBay and make $62,000 an hour later.

I, I don't blame them.

We have to build something differently and we have to create the sense of

belonging to bring them back into this industry because I really believe you

think about culturally in our country.

Be the Google of your industry guys remember that, right?

That was hot for, for a decade.

What that didn't mean is that you had foosball tables and bouncy chairs, right?

That was a byproduct of the culture.

What it meant is you were at the forefront of innovation and

culture, of shifting that culture.

However, they now have been called out for having grow culture, right?

Right.

But you know, that also meant that most of the engineers were sleeping

on bunk beds in their offices.

Right, right.

So there was, so there was that, that weird dichotomy and that they

felt, you know, in with the in group, like smarter than everybody else.

Just like we did.

You know, I want to kind of refer back to that, that idea of like having,

like doing more than everyone else.

I refer that as like being the apex predator and the aquarium, right?

and look and looking at the ways my behavior showed up.

And looking back, you know, with some regret and shame and yet that's why

I still stand here in this space.

I always knew that it could be different.

I always knew that it could be different.

Just because it wasn't different for me doesn't necessarily mean

it can't be different for others.

Yeah.

So and again, I want to kind of get back to this values thing.

So why do you think it's so important for hospitality and professionals to connect

to their personal values as opposed to like, you know, Being in love with the

allure or the dream of what it could be.

I call

that the facade.

We spend a lot of time on the facade, right?

Yeah.

And it doesn't matter what's going on with you, the guest

has to have a great experience.

And look, there's absolutely some, some strength and validity to those things.

Again, it's about the balance and it's about understanding where those,

those lines and those boundaries are.

And so for me, you need that north.

You need something that when the shit hits the fan and it always hits the fan.

Mm-hmm.

that keeps us both grounded and anchored and aspirational and motivat.

And, and working towards something with meaning and

purpose and a sense of belonging.

Right?

And so I think it's important for us to do that.

Now the problem is, and you know I mentioned it, is we

put these words on paper.

We have this big long employee company handbook, right?

That has a whole bunch of legalese and doesn't say shit.

And nobody ever, they signed the, the 47th page and they never look at it again.

Mm-hmm.

. And it is not, again, a part of the business model, the things

that we do day in and day out.

Right.

And so we talk about the culture is the byproduct a lot of times

of having those core values.

Mm-hmm.

, without a doubt creates, and culture is such a buzzword, and

it can mean absolutely nothing.

And I think quite often it does.

Culture I I like, I like.

One of the statements that I heard was culture of the decision

that's made when nobody's looking.

Sure.

You know, I, I really like that kind of, and there's lots of riffs on that

and I like that, where it's like we, we take responsibility and accountability

for that culture because we believe in it and we work on it and in it.

They're not just words that are up on a wall somewhere or on a piece of paper.

So I think that's the, the core principle of core values.

Mm-hmm.

of having something that, again, keeps you grounded and

aspirational at the same time.

Jim, thoughts, reflections.

Yeah, I, I mean, culture's, what happens when you're not around, right?

Like you.

And the values thing, I mean, I gotta go back to Jensen, something you

were talking about a minute ago when someone, that concept of I don't want

to be like you, or I don't want your job, or I don't want your, you know,

that that what you were presenting as.

The right way to do it.

And when I say you, I don't mean you specifically.

I mean a lot of us and me specifically.

Yeah.

And me specifically too.

And me specifically.

I will never forget a conversation I had with a rockstar that was on my team

at one point, and I thought this person was probably gonna take my job one day.

Right.

They were just so good at what they were doing, you know, climbing

the ladder, moving forward, the whole team loved working with.

. And one day she comes and sits me down and, and I was the GM of the restaurant

at the time, and she was, you know, moving forward in, in the program.

And she just goes, I'm done.

I quit.

No notice done.

Mm-hmm.

. And I went like, totally caught off guard.

I said, what do you mean?

She goes, I don't want your job.

That's it.

And I, I said, what do you.

I have a great job.

I have, I love my job.

I, I make good money.

I have good flexibility.

I, I work Monday to Friday.

I, you know, I was, I, I had, in my opinion, a pretty good thing going and she

said, you call me every night to ask me how the restaurant, how things are going.

You come in here every weekend, one on one or of the two days.

Check in, you know, and I was doing that because I cared and I was doing

that because I, I loved my job and I was doing that because I believed

that it was helping the team.

But what I was showing them was that this is a 24 hour a day job, and

if you don't approach it that way, you probably won't be successful.

And immediately I went, , you know, the values of what people are looking

for in moving forward in that, you know, in that model, how I'm presenting

that does not, it's not working.

And that, that was a big wake up call for me.

So I'm glad you mentioned that cuz it reminded me of that, that conversation

that I was like, devastating too.

When you like realize that damnit, I thought I was, I

thought I was the good guy.

I think about that dark night quote all the time.

Mm.

I a hero where you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.

and I have had to go, shit, I was the villain in many chapters of this story.

Mm-hmm.

. And it's hard to separate those, like emotionally.

It's hard to separate those.

Cause when I think about some of those moments of toxicity towards myself or.

or towards others.

I'm like, we also like did so many good things and mm-hmm.

, we raised money for charity and we, we introduced people to new cultures and

new cuisines and new techniques, and I have some long lasting friendships

and amazing memories and life moments, and I was a fucking asshole.

Mm-hmm.

, how do you reconcile those?

So we try and pretend like those were the good old days.

Can't stand.

The good old days are just an excuse that we don't want to work towards.

Anything else we think we already accomplished.

We already did the thing.

Mm-hmm.

, we were playing the infinite game to Simon Sinek points.

Again, we're playing the infinite game, not just a finite game.

We have to think about the legacy of what we're trying to create and pass on.

And before we go on the next thing I was gonna say, Aaron Fish and Jemiah.

Yeah.

Our fucking rock stars and superstars.

Whatever you want to be.

You are it.

Because I love this.

I mean, I see like YouTube clips and Simon.

Oh yeah, man, that's awesome.

You guys is dropping nuggets like mm-hmm.

. I absolutely love the engagement

right now.

It's the community man.

It is the community that we are creating.

I'm our internal community.

I'm gonna get in

their stuff, I'm gonna tag them on some annoying

attributes, posts on TikTok.

At some point they're gonna go, right, it's enough.

It's enough.

So I just, you want Jenson the takeaway that, and Adam, I

just want to just Yeah, please.

Yeah.

The last comment on that, the takeaway that, and I think for anyone who's

listening to this, there's, there's good value in, in this conversation.

Takeaway that I had from that conversation.

Big picture that changed a lot of the way I approach things in my ops career.

I thought I was showing support by calling the restaurant every

night seeing, and they perceived it as though I was not trustworthy

and micromanaging and had no life.

And they, I found out after that they used to joke about What time is Jim gonna

call tonight?

Oh.

That's what

time did Jim finish dinner today?

Yep.

Well, Jimmy needs dinner at six o'clock because he calls us at seven about

that stuff and I didn't know about it and I thought I was showing support

and they thought I was showing lack

of trust.

Yeah, like sad Jim.

Yeah, get a

life gym.

So, so I feel I need to kind of, and again, that's why get so juiced up in

these conversations because I get that, you know, we could go on and on and on.

And the show is about solutions and things that people can start working towards.

By the way, I wanted to say thank you, Jensen for calling

out Elderhood in our community.

And that you place yourself there because I also place myself there willingly

because I know for so many years that nobody gave a shit about Elderhood.

Burn him down, get him out.

I want his job.

Right?

. And so it's both an act of courage and it's also an act of faith.

And it's also an act of love for the industry that we all still love.

And I'm finding more and more and more.

With my particular coaching clients, that it's only until they're actually

grounded in their core values.

Not only their, not only like what they stand for, but why they stand

for and how they stand for it.

That they can actually make a clear decision about what

organization to be with.

So we always talk about mission statements with businesses and

things of that sort and mm-hmm.

and.

And I always look for like, okay, so in these postings, like

where are their core values?

Where is it in the job listing?

Are they, are they, are they trumpeting those, or it's kind

of like down at the very bottom underneath must keep a clean uniform.

Do you know what I'm saying?

Like companies that are completely clueless about what people are actually

looking for, which is the narrative to fall in love with the narrative to pair

with like, I need a reason to be here.

Yeah, give me a reason.

Give me some.

I don't think it's unreasonable, but unless they know what they stand for,

they're gonna fucking fall for anything.

Yeah.

We should talk about, we, we need to do another show on interviewing

because we've shifted what we call now a job description.

It's called a job story in our world.

There you go.

We write a compelling story.

And we start with I I keyword, right, because I recipe.

Right, right, right.

And so this is a very actionable thing that anybody can take.

I talk about this with hospitality professionals.

What are you good at?

Again, deployed against something we're bad at.

We're not very good at writers quite often.

That's why we loved Bourdain, because he was.

And what we, what we need to be able to do is articulate.

What we can do is build a recipe.

So I keyword write.

I don't write sentences.

I have no structure.

I'm an idiot.

I have two writers on, on our team that have to like rewrite everything.

. What I do, keywords, what are the keywords, the core values, what do I

want to express in this moment in this?

in this story.

I'm trying to tell in this job, in this business plan, whatever it is, what is

the story I'm trying to tell exactly.

I write 2, 4, 6, 8, 10 keywords.

Those are core values that then from that, that's your center of the plate item.

Then build around that.

All right, let me take this one word I like.

I wrote eight words, but these three words are really the core,

core words that I want to get to.

I want to tell my story around these three words.

I'll write a sentence for each of them.

Mm-hmm.

. I can do that.

I can write a sentence and I won't even sequence them.

I'll just write a sentence.

What that is is like, okay, here's now I want two ounces of this, four ounces

of this and three ounces of this.

I can start to build my recipe that.

And then I'll sequence them together and say, if I was gonna tell a

story, what's the arc of that story?

Right?

And I'm gonna start with this word, this word, this word.

And then I'll fill in everything to composite.

A complete story.

A complete narrative, A complete job story.

Job description.

Mm-hmm.

. And so that's a really actionable thing.

Keyword writing is a very great way to express what you do.

Write it down.

Just like you have that little notepad that you pull out mm-hmm.

, you write all the notes that chef just told you about how to

execute that dish flawlessly.

Write down, highlight underlining, circle some of those keywords because

that's gonna be the foundation of who you are and the type of businesses

that we're gonna build in the future.

So the, so the importance is strategic, strategically deploy.

Must be core to the business as in systems and actionable items becomes

easy, whether that's a checklist or whatever it is, like a day two orientation

where everybody gets walked around and, and really nurtured and like they

know where everything's at and da da as opposed to, here's your recipe book.

Get the fuck off the line.

Yeah.

And there are gonna be things that we think that are going to.

That are aspirational right now that we'd like to see yet we can't

actually fit them into the business from an operation standpoint.

And then I'm also hearing that, you know, as a professional, it's really

important to understand what's most ipa, what's most IPA important for you?

And that that changes Six years ago, your children might not necessarily have

been like getting up in the morning, have breakfast, might not have been

a big thing, but then things change.

And so to stay clear eye.

About like what matters.

Then you can actually start adjusting.

Not only your expectations, but the things that you're looking

for, like what you want to do.

Am I getting you to correct?

Yeah, and what's interesting is what you're talking

about is, is we kind of talk about the four access is what I

think about the way that we work.

And so I've talked about the business model.

We've restructured so many things like we're, that's actually the easy part.

Like we know how to make the numbers work.

We, Andrew knows how to make the numbers work.

We can move things around that chess board all day long.

That's actually the easy part.

Then there's the three other access that are really.

because they're humans, they're emotional, right?

We have to convince the bosses, leaders, managers, owners,

investors, that this ship matters.

That's really difficult because in the past it didn't matter and

we had successful businesses, so why should it matter?

Now we have to convince the the public.

That they should spend their money at places that invest in things that

matter, not the ones that have just more shiny shit than somebody else.

Correct.

Absolutely.

And finally, we have to, we have to convince ourselves that we're

worth investing in to that level.

And that is the most difficult part about all of these things

that we're talking about.

And so unless we start to break through those stigmas, Those boundaries that

we've set for ourselves, we're never gonna break through to what it means to

be whole in this industry and be able to invest in the things that we value.

And where we spend money does in fact show.

What we value, where we spend time does in fact matter and a breakthrough.

A lot of times when we're talking about mission statement, vision

statement, core values, they're like, that's some corporate bullshit, right?

They just throw some words out there to fake you out, to be able to get

you into their, their meat grinder.

That's not us.

We're independent.

We do things our way.

I am, I'm not wasting time on all those fake words.

I'm just about the work.

I'm about the business.

I'm about the food.

That's all that matters.

Just take care of the food and every and the people will come.

That's just never actually been true and not true.

Now, if it's only about what's on the plate, then you are commoditized and

you'll only be valued by what's on.

If it's about who gets it, the plate, how we get it to the plate, right?

Well then our value is exponential.

Then we become pillars of both culture and commerce in our community.

Then other industries, not the Google of XYZ industry.

Other industries would be like, I'm the hospitality X, Y, Z of my industry.

Because I understand the value that that creates internally and externally

for my business, for my employees, for my customers and clients.

And that's the opportunity we have because hospitality is unlike any other

dynamic in business that you can imagine.

Because we're in the relationship business, which is very, very

different, very unique, and other industries are trying to look to us

now, and we have to set an example.

Doug Doug New Hook is just saying, great shit.

Jensen, the Cummings.

Thank you.

Can't wait for the hiring story episode.

Let's go.

And if, and if we're gonna, if we're gonna put a pin in the hiring,

because I love that cuz a lot of what I'm doing also is like it's

like this weird interview prep I got.

I have a call right after this.

I'm so excited about it.

But I also specifically, if it's okay with you, is to schedule some in the future to

talk about the access, the four points of that access and strategies around how we.

Not only as professionals, but as operators actually punch

through those limitations.

Cuz I get that, you know, in talking to 60, 70, 80 chefs and hospitality

professionals, you know, one of the biggest things that they continue to

talk about is this feeling of, of of being undervalued by the customer.

Ooh.

Right.

And like catering customers who are coming in trying to beat them down on price

or, or like other stories like that.

I mean, there's a victim story in that as well, and I get that however, You know,

to assist others to gain their sovereignty so that you know, this is my price.

This is what I do, da, da, da, da.

It's a powerful thing at kind of resetting the table as it was, or on this show.

Flipping the table,

, Jensen Cummings: don't,

Negotiate on value.

Always on value.

You never take away.

You always add.

Always, always, always on value.

We cannot diminish what we do.

You can't self commoditize.

Unfortunately, we've self commoditized.

We've taken a picture of our food.

Put it on Instagram, said, come buy my shit.

It's transactional.

We have to flip that narrative and, and for who was it on LinkedIn?

I just see LinkedIn user on my end.

Thank you.

That was Doug Newhook new.

I love

doing great shit.

That's my whole goal is to be fight of the night.

Anytime I show up for sure fir tidbit, I do something now that nobody else

is willing to do, and I do it myself because I wanna prove the concept.

Every single interview.

First interview is a 10 minute phone.

I ask three questions.

They ask three questions, and then we decide if we feel

good about a next interview.

Perfect.

I do a 22nd video for every single person that I'm going to

do that initial interview for.

I say, hi, my name's Jensen.

I'm excited to talk with you.

I saw from your resume that you did this worked here.

Did that, love that?

Excited about that.

Can't wait to hear about.

And I spend that time and effort, the amount of people, I dunno, 75%

of people over dozens and dozens and dozens that I've done this test model

on have thanked me going, wow, that was great that you sent that video.

And I know that a high percentage of people who show up to that interview

might have skipped your interview because you didn't take that tiny little step.

Sure.

That I'm willing to take to humanize this process.

And so many people tell, tell me that's a waste of time.

Most of 'em aren't gonna.

Yeah, but what if four more people, six more people do show up that

weren't going to show up, that you hire, that become the linchpin to

the future success of your person?

Is that worth a 22nd video?

I believe it is, and most people do not.

That's the difference.

That's what we'll we'll talk about in hiring stories.

Oh my God, that's so

good.

Because, you know, again, that's, that's, it's it's extending this

boundary of, of communication in that, you know, do you wanna hire people?

Do you wanna hire the right.

Right.

And very often that energy around like, Hey, listen, I'm gonna take 20

seconds to do a video with this person.

You know, do they always work out?

You know, I, I don't know what the percentages are, but I could certainly

feel in my own heart, someone send me a little video about that and go

like, no, dude, I wanna be there.

I wanna be there.

I don't wanna be over here.

Here.

So Chef Jensen Cummings, thank you very, very much, Jim Taylor.

Jim, you've like, you're just listening, dude.

Like

. Jensen Cummings: That's

He's like, I can't wait to listen.

I was like, well, I'll talk a lot, I'm sure.

All right.

One last piece of business before we go.

Oh, no, there's actually no programming notes.

So upcoming shows Thanksgiving.

Yeah, you're not off.

We're not off.

So Jim and I, we're gonna hold down the fort and we're gonna do

a an episode servant leader.

Comma really.

And then we've got Michelle Moreno from Qab Leadership, Jennifer

Kern from restaurants reinvented.

And on 1215 we got Kelly feathering him from Kelly

Feathering Leadership Coaching.

We love her book abc.

Fantastic.

And I just wanted to say very, very lastly, That this been

coming on for a long time.

But actually Chef Life Radio or chef life coaching.com is

finally done, finally complete.

And I'd like to debut the only online community dedicated to servers to

serving chefs in hospitality professionals who want to enjoy their

careers without sacrificing their lives in the new hospitality culture.

Come join the Chef Life Brigade.

It's open chef life brigade.com, and we're gonna be celebrating

that with a live stream next.

November 22nd at 6:00 PM with the British bordain.

This dude, he's crazy . He's a good copy man.

What can I say?

Jordan Clement.

And he's a fantastic chef and doing some really great stuff.

And he is got a very powerful story to tell.

So that's on my side.

Jim, any last.

I, I, think that we could have, I mean, we just spent an hour

and, and we could have spent five.

So Jensen, I just appreciate you, you coming on, you've always got incredible

nuggets and you know, I think you've been invited the night today there was go.

I'm here for it.

Appreciate you guys.

Everything that you're doing doesn't go unnoticed across the industry.

We, we need more people willing to, to speak, to create platforms, to

bring more voices in the conversation.

So I'm just grateful.

And if I spark one person today to go out, do their thing, tell their

story, shift their approach, believe in themselves, a huge fucking win

for me.

You know, Jens.

When you guys were doing the 86 86 86 challenge in, in best served, and I

just want to kind of end with this.

I had the opportunity to either submit an article or sponsor

articles as Chef Life Radio.

And I love to write as anybody who knows me, knows that.

And I very consciously took a sponsorship position because I wanted to provide

an opportunity for folks who maybe.

Un practice to having their voice heard, right?

Providing an opportunity for someone to say I don't really know what I'm

doing, but I'm gonna write this anyway because there's something inside

me that's, that's speaking to me.

And I think that that's an integral part of Elderhood.

Like, yes, we hold a lot of knowledge, but what's most important for us is

holding space for that next generation.

Those leaders who are coming up who may not necessarily you know, agree

with what we're doing, but you know, it's gotta be a safe space for all

of us to speak or, or what the hell

are we doing here?

Spec.

Love

you.

Thank you very much everybody.

This has been another episode of turning the table