Andrea Rappaport (00:00)

You don't want to bring your new partner into the mischigas or craziness of your divorce. They don't want to go through it.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (00:08)

he wanted to save money. And then he ended up paying thousands of dollars above and beyond that.

How Not To Suck At Divorce (00:14)

If you're going through a divorce or you're thinking about going through a divorce, then this is the podcast that you've been waiting for. Hosted by Morgan Stogsdill, the head of family law at the largest family law firm in the country, and comedian Andrea Rappaport, we are gonna help you avoid the biggest divorce mistakes So let's go.

This is How Not to Suck at Divorce.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (00:41)

I reposted one of our memes this morning on social media because it was literally what I'm living lately. You know those text messages, that you get on that somebody adds you to Like, for instance, for me, I was added to one of my children's, grade mom's group, which

Originally, I was like, oh, this is great. Somebody is like really taking initiative. I'm going to know things that

Andrea Rappaport (01:07)

I'm

Morgan L. Stogsdill (01:07)

I otherwise would not know, right? Because I'm not always in the know because I'm busy. And then it just devolved. Oh my God. You know, like one mom takes it out of context and is like, you know, we should get a book club together. And I'm like, you know what? Am I the only one? Right. But also I'm like shut.

Andrea Rappaport (01:23)

Tell her not to. Tell her to learn from my mistakes. It never goes well.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (01:30)

up. You don't even know half these people on this text chain. Nobody wants to be in your book club. And oh, by the way, go to work, go get a job.

I know, I'm gonna get hate now.

Andrea Rappaport (01:40)

I am just glad that somebody else is in the hot seat today and it's not me and my dog sweater. God bless her and her book club. I hate those messages, as you know. That's where that first meme came from.

moms in the class is the absolute worst because there's like 400 of them and One person will post a picture and then you have to get notified every time somebody likes the goddamn picture

Morgan L. Stogsdill (02:04)

And also, I don't know, I'm just in a mean mood today, but what is with the weirdest names ever people are naming their children? It's like, hi, I'm Morgan and I have a son named Blue. Like what? And I don't have a son named Blue, but seriously, that's the shit we're talking about on these text chains. And I'm in the middle of my work day and I am like, how do I get off of this thing? But then you can't get off because I'm like.

Andrea Rappaport (02:14)

Thank

Morgan L. Stogsdill (02:27)

What if I miss valuable information? Not about your stupid book club, but something like that I should really know that I don't.

Andrea Rappaport (02:34)

There's not going to be valuable information. Anything valuable is going to come from the teacher. There's nothing valuable there. I mean, listen, talk about regret. I regret joining

any kind of, not that you even join, I regret not silencing those messages sooner. Now I know the minute that I'm added to something, boop, do not disturb, do not care.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (02:56)

But what about the men?

But what about the men? These guys, do they have text chains? I don't think so. They do?

Andrea Rappaport (03:01)

yeah. No, they do. My husband

does. yeah. He's on one with all of his friends from high school.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (03:08)

Well, that's different. I'm talking about the ones that are you're added to that you're like, I don't even know what number this area code is, let alone who's talking to me. Like those are the ones that I'm talking about. The friend ones I get. But the ones where you're like, you're inviting me to a book club. I don't even know your name or your child's name or whether you should be on this text message to begin with.

Andrea Rappaport (03:29)

I hate it. I hate it all. I'll tell you something that I don't hate though that I'm kind of obsessed with right now because I just I don't know why you and I have never talked about this. Do you watch ⁓ Landman?

Morgan L. Stogsdill (03:40)

No, but you know I'm not a big TV person. Give me the deets.

Andrea Rappaport (03:43)

Landman, my dad told me to watch it. It is so good. You would think that by the description, I would not at all be into it because it's very masculine. It's about the oil business in Texas, right? But it's all about the people who work on the rigs and all of this stuff. it's...

really intense and there's like family drama and it's actually really funny. It's got so Billy Bob Thornton is yeah, he's the lead

Morgan L. Stogsdill (04:05)

I like them.

Andrea Rappaport (04:07)

stay with me here. I can tie all of this together, I promise you. Billy Bob Thornton, do you have any idea how many times that guy's been married?

Morgan L. Stogsdill (04:15)

No.

Andrea Rappaport (04:15)

Billy Bob Thornton has been married six times.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (04:19)

Good God, he's been busy in his life.

Andrea Rappaport (04:21)

He's been busy. today we're talking about divorce regrets, right? The most common regrets and how you should learn from others mistakes. So let's go back to Billy Bob. So Billy Bob, he's coming home.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (04:32)

Can we just stop?

His name is Billy Bob too. I mean, we are just on Names today.

Andrea Rappaport (04:36)

Do you think that growing up people were like Billy Bob, Billy Bob or did they just call him Billy? I don't know.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (04:41)

No, I

think they were like, what's wrong with your mother, Billy Bob?

Andrea Rappaport (04:44)

No, didn't he grow up in the South? think Billy Bob is a much common, I mean, you're talking to the grill from Texas here. We have Billy Bob's. No, I'm gonna name my kid blue. I'm naming my kid purple, not Billy Bob. Listen, Billy Bob. He's still currently married to Willy Wob. No, Billy Bob, Billy Bob's still married, meaning he's only been only been divorced.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (04:52)

Then name your kid Billy Bob.

Andrea Rappaport (05:08)

five times. Famously, his last divorce was from Angelina Jolie, which I'm sure was an absolute nightmare. But here's what I wonder. After five divorces, does one become a pro at getting divorced? Does he go through these divorces thinking, I'm not going to make the mistakes that I made in divorces one, two, three, and four. I know what to do now.

So going back to what we're talking about today, the most common divorce regrets and what you should do differently. I want you guys to think of this episode as like a best of, like a highlights reel of what not to do and what you should do instead. And we have a lot of new listeners right now. If this is the first episode that you're listening to, don't worry, we don't talk about Billy Bob the whole time.

We are, however, going to be your new best friends during your divorce process and hopefully after your divorce process.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (06:03)

tell you something about Billy Bob Thornton, Billy Bob, and Angelina Jolie likely, there's one thing they likely did not do in their divorce, which is a common divorce regret and something that divorce lawyers hate to see happening. It's leaving money on the table because they're rushing through the process. That's when you start making big mistakes.

You see a light at the end of the tunnel. You want the divorce done. But basically you left money on the table that you were otherwise entitled to because you were in so much of a hurry just to get your case over with.

Andrea Rappaport (06:36)

And I think one of the biggest reasons why people tend to rush through their divorce is because they've already moved on romantically and they want to just get on with their life, which I completely get. And maybe that's not the reason. Maybe it's just that you're exhausted or you hate the feeling of conflict or you think, well, I'm going to lose anyway. What's the point?

I think though that more often than not it is because there's somebody else in the picture who doesn't want to be dating somebody who's going through a divorce because that's no fun. But as hard as it is to not rush through and want to get it over with, and I am a girl who wanted to get it over with, you will make so many mistakes. So let's break this down, Morgan. What are things that they can potentially really screw up here?

Morgan L. Stogsdill (07:22)

lot of things if you want to rush. I have a lot of clients that will come in and say, you know, this month is January. I want to be divorced by March. And I'm like, well, we all want things. But why is there something I should know about that's happening in March? No, no, this is just this is when the divorce is going to be over with. And I basically have to say to them, OK, but then that means essentially we're going to be cutting corners and therefore you could be missing things or leaving money on the table. So I think that you have to know that

Putting arbitrary deadlines on things in a divorce process is not a smart thing to do. The other thing that I see is when you're rushing, you're not updating things the way you should. You're not getting a really clear balance sheet with updated numbers. A lot of people are like, just use the old balance sheet. And I'm like, well, those numbers that were in the accounts were from about nine months ago. So we don't know what's happening in the accounts. You might be leaving money on the table there.

These are just a few examples about missing things if you're rushing.

Andrea Rappaport (08:18)

Well, okay, now just because I think we might have a lot of new people who are listening to what you're saying right now, go back up, tell everybody about the balance sheet and how often somebody should be updating this stuff. Because it's kind of new to me too. When you said it, I'm like, ew, updating. And then I'm like, well, yeah, that does make sense, but that sounds like such a chore.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (08:40)

I know it is annoying. It's annoying because you have to pull documents in order for your attorney or yourself to update it. But at minimum, I think everybody is different depending on the case of how often it should be updated. But at minimum, before you sign the settlement agreement, before you go to that divorce, you want as much of an up-to-date balance sheet as possible. Don't get divorced with an old balance sheet.

Andrea Rappaport (09:04)

And the balance sheet is money in, money

out,

Morgan L. Stogsdill (09:08)

it's basically, This is what's in the account. My spouse, and we always talk about if you're new to this podcast, not only welcome, but we always talk about our fake couple, Chad and Brenda. So for instance, we could say, hey, Chad's account at Chase has this amount of money in it right before the divorce. A few things that you'd want to be looking at is what if Chad's investment account, what if we know that Chad's investment account at

Goldman Sachs had, let's just say, $100,000 in it nine months ago. And we know the market's done pretty well. We get the update right before you're going to get divorced. And now it's at $50,000. Well, where did the money go? Those are the things that you might leave on the table or never get the chance to ask if you're just rushing.

Andrea Rappaport (09:50)

So let's go back to this feeling of wanting to rush. We get it. We know you want to. And now you're hearing like what will happen if you do rush. And it's not only just financial stuff that you can be leaving. Like yes, money on the table, but you could be missing little nuances in your parenting agreement. There could be so many things that you think, doesn't mean just sign it. It's not a big deal.

And then later you're like, ⁓ wait, I signed that. And now it is a big deal. So if someone, Morgan, is really itching to get this over with, what do we want them to do instead?

Morgan L. Stogsdill (10:29)

I think that having good expectations is everything in a divorce process for the client and the lawyer to be communicating it. So you should get your expectations in line with your lawyer. So if you truly are like, I wanted to be divorced yesterday and my goal is to be divorced in March, like we just talked about, I want you to sit down with your attorney and actually ask, is this reasonable? If it is reasonable, how do we get there? What's the map?

points on how we're going to get to this March date. So you want your expectations set. There's a lot of clients and I've gotten them even emails this week from some of my clients that are like, I'm not going to do X, Y, and Z. And I'm thinking to myself, well, that's not how the court works. And that's not how this process works. So you are going to do it. So then I realized to myself, I need to get the client on the phone. I need to explain things. I need to set expectations. So bottom line is if you're itching to get this over with,

Andrea Rappaport (11:06)

I'm

Morgan L. Stogsdill (11:24)

You need to make sure that your expectations are realistic. So I want you meeting with your lawyer and having that conversation of, they realistic? If so, how do we get there?

Andrea Rappaport (11:34)

going to add to that.

from an emotional standpoint, if you're itching to get it over with because you fall into that first category that we mentioned, where you're already in a relationship, which, okay, that happens all the time. It happened with me. What do you do?

The biggest piece of advice that I can give you

You don't want to bring your new partner into the mischigas or craziness of your divorce. They don't want to go through it.

There's a great chance they've been through their own divorce. They don't want to relive it with you. And it's hard to do. is so easier said than done because you're going to go out on a date and they're going to say, how are things going? And you're going to hear my voice in your head and you'll say, it's good.

or today was a shit day, but we don't need to get into it. And then they're going to press. No, you can tell me. No, I want to know. I want to be here for you. You hear me. Go to your therapist. Go to your friend. Go to anybody else except your new love interest. Number one, it's going to eat at that relationship. Number two, and this dovetails into the second regret.

They're going to want to try to solve your problem because they care. The problem with that is they're not an attorney.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (12:47)

I think a few things legally from what you're saying. And I get that it's easier said than done not to share with your new partner or whoever you're dating about what you're going through. You're going through hell. So I get it. But legally, we don't want that new partner involving themselves or you involving them, that person in the divorce process. We as lawyers don't want to talk to them. We don't want them on emails. We don't want any of that.

The second regret is letting somebody besides your attorney influence your divorce related decisions. I see this a lot with people's families who really just want to help out the person going through the divorce. Let's just say in this case, it's your dad. Wonderful. You've got somebody helping you out. But my caution to you is if your father isn't an attorney and doesn't understand the legal process,

you're going to have somebody who's supportive, but maybe not leading you in the right direction. And the biggest thing that I want to make very clear is if your father is not involved in your day-to-day divorce conversations with your attorney, and that brings up a whole host of conflict issues, which you can talk to your attorney about. But if they're not involved in that day-to-day decision-making and understanding of what's going on with the court and why, or mediation or why we're doing certain things,

they might be misguiding you, not on purpose, but their voice could definitely influence you to take a left turn because they're not in the trenches of the divorce with your divorce lawyer.

Andrea Rappaport (14:13)

You can have situations where maybe mom and dad are helping you out financially to get

which don't laugh. That happens to fully grown people because divorces can get really expensive. So don't judge because this might be you.

Sometimes when a parent is handing over their hard earned money to help their child navigate this, they say, well, this is my money. I want to know what's going on. Okay. That's a conversation that you hand over to your attorney. You guys think about it. There are, like Morgan just said, there are some times where maybe the individual is so overwhelmed.

that they need that parental guidance, right? But you got to look to the attorney. Let the attorney guide the ship here.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (15:00)

So I have a client right now

she is going through a really tough divorce process. And she also struggles a little bit at times to get really focused on what matters in the case. And she admits that. But what happens is we go through mediation or a court process and we have these really detailed discussions about what next steps are. And then she comes back and she says,

Well, you know, but I've been talking to my dad and my dad says that this is basically a bunch of bullshit.

And for us as lawyers, it's hard because we want to respect her relationship with her father, but her father's not in the trenches with us and has no idea about the financials, the process, anything like that. And so those are the conversations that if you're having or someone's in your ear and they're not in what I'm calling the trenches with you, you've got to kind of shut that out.

You've got to focus on what your attorney is saying.

Andrea Rappaport (15:50)

And I'm going to give another action step here, make it really clear for you guys. If you do have somebody involved in your case who is not your attorney, we've already made it really clear that it should not be your boyfriend or girlfriend. Okay? No, no, no, for many reasons. Let's say it's a family member and let's say that this family member is financially invested in your life and your divorce. And let's say that they're not a dummy.

And maybe they are a financial advisor, right? Like maybe they have a certain level of expertise in something and they whatever. Do this. You do not want them to have separate phone calls that you are not on with your attorney, because those are billable hours. Your attorney is going to even be in a conflict to have those conversations, and it's going to cause more craziness. If they are in a meeting, let's say they're coming in virtually to a meeting.

It needs to be you are on mute and you are listening and gathering information. And then at one point during the conversation, they can ask questions because what happens so many times, and I lived through this, you don't realize that what should have been a 15 minute call turned into a 45 minute call or a call that was an hour and a half because dad went into a diatribe about some shit that you are now paying for.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (17:09)

I just had this happen yesterday and they mean so well, but remember this too, especially if it's a family member that's helping you out, they're experiencing trauma just like you are. They're experiencing loss of potentially, you know, their son-in-law, their daughter-in-law, somebody who's important in their life, then they're watching you go through all these emotions and their heart is breaking for you. So what Andrea said is exactly right. A lot of times they get on the phone and it's just vomit of the mouth.

Most of the stuff that they're saying does not influence your case or really matter, but it's a way for them to feel better. But you are paying for that. So be careful when you have these people on if they're not really focused.

Andrea Rappaport (17:49)

And it muddies the water. It makes it so that the biggest thing when you have a call with your attorney, you should be getting off that call feeling more assured than you were before you made the call. You should get off every single conversation with an attorney feeling like, okay, now I know the plan of attack. Often when another person is involved, it gets muddy and confusing. And we don't want you to hang up that phone and be like, I

I have no idea what just happened, right? So let's make this action step very clear. Number one, the regret is people involving family members or a partner into their divorce because they made mistakes or it made their case that much more expensive. So what we want you to do instead is be really selective. You can love mommy and daddy a lot, but if they really don't have a place,

to be a part of your divorce team, then they should not be a part of your divorce team. If they do add value, then it needs to be controlled and it should be your attorney who's like the circus ringleader of all of this.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (18:56)

That's what I call myself, the circus

ringleader.

I'm just kidding. But yes, that is right. And they can be helpful. That's what I don't want you to think. Like I'm saying, absolutely not never, but just know the risks that come with them.

Andrea Rappaport (19:01)

Mm-hmm.

So as we're talking about teams, I would say that the third most common regret is kind of the opposite of what we just said. It's people who are afraid of overspending, so they think, I'm not going to utilize any outside support. I am going to raw dog this divorce.

I mean, there are some people who want to go and like do this without even an attorney. And my God, if that's you, hear me? Do not. You need an attorney. Do not trust your spouse that you can do this with one attorney. You cannot drive through Starbucks and order, a venti caramel frappe and a divorce. You've got to have your own attorney. Okay. But aside from that, people get

nervous about how much money is flying out the window and they don't utilize experts.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (20:00)

so I'm going to give you two stories of what I see. Sometimes, and I'm not saying experts are necessary in every case, but if your lawyer is talking about wanting an expert, you want to know why, what it looks like, what the potential costs may be, how in depth they're going to get on whatever they're doing. So there's two issues. I have a case a long time ago where

I had the wife, I had Brenda

in this case, and Chad had a dental

practice. And I said, we need to value this dental practice. It needs to go on the balance sheet for the marital estate in order to figure out how we're going to divide it. And Brenda wanted to cheap out here. She was like, no, originally it was no. Then the next step was, well, I'm gonna find an expert myself. That is, first of all, so inappropriate.

No client out of the blue should be randomly finding an expert because there's many reasons why. Number one, they may not be appropriate for testifying in front of a court. Number two, courts generally know the experts and they've seen experts in the divorce realm that they like to use and that they trust. So immediately that expert might walk in and the court may say, hi, Mr. Smith. Great to see you again. Now you've got immediate credibility instead of

Joe Schmo off the street where this person is trying to cheap out and hire some no-namer who has no idea what they're doing. So that's number one. That's one thing that I've seen. Another issue is sometimes people get worried about the money and so they don't want to add an extra expense, but it comes back in the future to hurt them. I'm to give you another example.

At this point, I have Chad in the divorce and Brenda is on the other side. And Chad is a little worried because in a normal divorce, Chad has to pay a portion of the children's expenses going forward. That's pretty standard. And Brenda's usually, you know, really A-type going to handle all the expenses and then send Chad the receipts and say, pay your portion of this. Seems fair, right? But I knew Brenda at that point. And I said to Chad, said, listen,

doing this willy-nilly on email where she sends you random receipts and you owe her money, she is going to trap you here. She is going to either hammer you with a million emails and get it where you miss a few or you're gonna get so overwhelmed you're just gonna shut down. What you should be doing is paying for our Family Wizard, which as you know, Andrea, we love our Family Wizard. If you don't know about our Family Wizard, it is a service online that you can, it's a co-parenting app where you can actually talk to your co-parent through that.

the court and or attorneys can monitor it. The other thing that's really great about it, I mean, there's a million things great about it, but you can actually upload receipts there. And so you can actually say, OK, here's the receipt from Brenda. I paid it long story short, Chad, a few years later, all of a sudden gets a petition from Brenda in the court saying Chad didn't pay thousands of dollars worth of receipts. At this point, I say to Chad, Chad, why didn't you sign up for our family wizard?

He was like, why? You know, it was really stupid. I didn't want to pay for it at the time. I said, okay, well now you're going to have to go through years worth of emails to prove or disprove that she sent these proposed receipts that you did or did not pay. So number one, now he's taking a ton of time away from work to try to pull these emails to try to figure it out. But the second thing is he did exactly what I thought he was going to do. She hammered him with emails. He couldn't keep up. He shut down.

he didn't end up paying what he should have. And then he owed a ton of money. And where I practice, if you're held in contempt of court for not doing something that the agreement says, you also may owe attorney's fees on top of that. So it was like a double whammy where he could have just paid a simple amount of money per month that would keep her on the straight and narrow. And he didn't want to do that because

he wanted to save money. And then he ended up paying thousands of dollars above and beyond that.

Andrea Rappaport (23:47)

so many people don't sign up because they just don't think that they need it. And then when they do end up signing up, they want to know, well, can I go back in time? Like, can we like retro stuff? And they're like, no, like it can't, like if you didn't, if you didn't log this stuff in here, you know, you can't go, it's, it's already, it's, it's done. People also don't use.

They don't want to use therapists because they don't think that they need it. They don't want to use financial people because they don't think that they need it. There are so many times where, again, ask your attorney. If your attorney says, nah, you don't need our family wizard. Okay, then maybe you don't. But if your attorney says, no, this would be really helpful, freaking go and do it

we don't want you to cheap out on things that can actually benefit you.

because you will spend more money in the long run.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (24:41)

And a good attorney legally is going to tell you what they think you need. They're not like, for instance, if I have a client come in, let's say Chad comes to my office. I'm not going to tell him that he needs every expert in the world, 10 therapists, I'm not going to do that unless it truly is necessary because of my experience. is what lawyers aren't getting money from referring financial people or experts. We're not getting money from therapists. We're not getting money from.

those kind of things. The issue is it's going to help you get through the case and generally either save you money or save you money in the future. That's why lawyers are recommending the services.

Andrea Rappaport (25:18)

And before we get off of this topic of utilizing experts, I'm going to drop an unpopular opinion and the whole world is going to hate me.

you probably don't need a divorce coach. Oops, there I said it. If you have an effective therapist, which those are really hard to come by and actually guys stay tuned because we are working very closely now with a therapist who

is designing a brand new way of doing therapy that is very actionable, much like how divorce coaches try to be actionable, but they don't have the training to actually help people because they're just a coach and not a therapist. Don't fall into that trap. Divorce coaches are often not able to really help you. They can make things more chaotic unless your attorney says,

Here is someone we want you to work with. Go here. Oftentimes, law firms are affiliated with a person who they utilize to help you through the mental and emotional stuff. I'm not talking about that. I am talking about you going on social media and searching up some rando named Kaylee who went through a really bad divorce and now poof, she's a divorce coach.

and she's gonna help you through yours. Kaylee doesn't know what the fuck she's talking about. All right? And Kaylee probably follows us until right now when she's hitting unfollow and is about to send me a scathing DM. we want you to use your money in the smartest way. Utilize tools that will actually help you.

The biggest regret or one of the biggest regrets people have is not using their money in the smartest way. The smart way is if your attorney says, need to bring in a financial person, do it. If your attorney says, you need to get on our family wizard, do it. If you feel like you are out of control mentally and emotionally, go get a good therapist.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (27:18)

Preach sister, preach. There's nothing that drives me more crazy than people online with online coaching certificates. I don't even know what that means. I would never personally recommend somebody like that or use those people. And I have used coaches before in cases, but it's very rare. We've talked about it in other episodes and it's not just a random coach with no training. It's an actual.

psychologist or psychiatrist that also does coaching. They have the credentials. So there's a very big difference out there. You don't need all of these things. That's when you waste money. You need what your lawyer usually thinks is appropriate for your case.

Andrea Rappaport (27:55)

Thank you. Okay. Speaking of therapy, mental health, another really, really big regret is people waiting too long to file. Okay. Why is this such a big deal? I'm going to tell you in a minute, but Morgan, how many times have you had clients come to you in a puddle?

and they are absolutely already exhausted and at their wits end because they should have walked in your office years ago.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (28:24)

I mean, so many times, and that's the unfortunate part because most of them are just continuing on to live in hell. And the action step here is don't just wait for waiting sake. If there is a reason to hold off on filing, your attorney with the facts of your case after knowing the facts of your case will direct you and give you a plan. If you know that divorce is on the horizon, but maybe there is a reason, you're going to have a very solid plan.

If your attorney says, don't see a reason for you to wait, ask the question, is there a good reason for me to wait strategically? If your attorney says no, then I think you have to really think about that. What's the benefit of waiting? I'm living in hell right now.

Andrea Rappaport (29:04)

I think one of the most common reasons why people wait is because they're scared. They're worried about the children. They're scared to pull the trigger. And all of that is completely understandable. The problem with waiting is that you are exhausting yourself mentally, and that carries more weight than you realize. Divorce is really hard. It's a mental marathon.

If you enter this process already really defeated and really exhausted, you are going to make the process that much harder. So that's what I want you to consider. And you don't know, you don't know where you're gonna be a year from now if you hold off. what, going back to Morgan's point, people, here's what I want you to do, okay? Instead of just waiting, if you are not,

going to file for divorce right now and you are absolutely miserable in your marriage. You've got to go and sit down with an attorney. Sitting down with an attorney is not filing. There could be absolutely no record that you had this conversation. You go and you sit down with your attorney and you say, okay, here are my facts. If you were me, what would you do? If your attorney says, okay, well,

If I were you, I would wait until this bonus is paid out or this happens or this happens or this happens. Okay. The difference there is you are waiting with a strategy. There is a plan in place for when you're going to move forward because going back to what Morgan said,

waiting for just waiting sake is the biggest regret that you will

have.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (30:39)

has to be a reason in my mind to wait. For instance, you might be like, what kind of reason, Morgan? Well, could be that there's a bonus coming that you want to sweep into the marital estate. And depending on where you're at in the United States or in Canada or in another country, you need to know the law. If you file today, but the bonus comes after, does that affect the bonus? There could be other big things happening, like, for instance, and I get this.

with kids, sometimes people are like, listen, Johnny's about to take his ACT or leave for college. I can't mess that up. He won't be able to get through it. Totally understand those things. And a good lawyer will say, yes, you're right. Let's wait until after this event happens. Or they'll say, I don't see a reason to wait. So that's the point here is actually talk to a lawyer about what the best path forward for you is. And remember,

your path is totally different than somebody else's.

Andrea Rappaport (31:34)

And there's also never a great time, unfortunately, and your attorney is going to tell you that. They're not going to say, okay, well, we consulted our magic eight ball and here is the best day and the best time to file. Ready? A five, six, seven, eight, go. That doesn't happen.

There's always gonna be something, but there are some major things to consider for some people. And that's why we want you to go to the attorney, sit down with them, have that meeting. It will be worth your time. Okay, we're gonna round out this conversation of the biggest divorce regrets and what we want you to do differently.

this last one is the exact kind of opposite of the first one, which is talking about leaving money on the table. Now there's a nuance here. There's a difference between leaving money on the table and this last regret, which is dragging things out and fighting just to fight over what really will end up being little stupid things.

Morgan, you have 18 years of experience in this. ⁓ Tell us the stories and start with the argument over ketchup and mustard bottles, because that's my favorite.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (32:39)

actually 19. ⁓

I think the big argument was over the balsamic and who was going to take that, but that's for another day. These are the things that really drive up your costs and drag out your case. So they're the little things at the end of the case that you're getting stuck on. It's personal property when truly, if you would just cut the divorce off today in a month or two, you probably afford that couch that you wanted brand new that you were fighting about. Whereas

Essentially, you're taking attorney's time to fight over a couch where you could probably pay for it four times over. Those are the little things that you have to say at the end of the day when we're getting close to the end. Are these things worth my money fighting about? Or am I costing myself just out of principle more money with my lawyer? It doesn't hurt anybody sometimes to cut bait at the end of the case and leave a few small things on the table. I'm not talking about big money.

or potentially something like that. That's what we were talking about at the beginning of this. These are the little things at the end, just on principle that you're like, I'm just not signing it because I didn't get the balsamic collection. Those are the things that we want you to say, nope, that's waste of my money. We're moving on.

Andrea Rappaport (33:54)

And here's an easy way to help you do this. Here's my personal action step. I want you to write down on a piece of paper. What do I need? What do I want? Okay, you need to have a place to live.

You need your kids to be secure and you need consistency and you need enough money to live, right? Knowing, and one of the things that Morgan talks about all the time on this show is bet on yourself. You will recoup a lot of money that you have lost in this process. And yes, you're gonna lose some money, honey. That's what happens when you get divorced. When you look at the what do I wants,

Now, we all want things and I'm not saying that it's wrong to want the couch, right? Maybe you went to our house and you bought a couch for $10,000, which, my God, BTW, I actually have my eye. I need a new couch. And their sofas are so... Do you have one of theirs, by the way? They're so expensive, but they're made of gold. They're luxurious. Okay. So let's say that you dropped a mortgage payment or...

Morgan L. Stogsdill (34:54)

No, no.

Andrea Rappaport (35:03)

15 mortgage payments on one of these sofas, okay? And you're like, I want this. Girl, I get you, me too. Why do you want it? And how much money is it worth to keep that sectional? If it really is important to you, then you need, and your attorney need to come up with a strategy for how you're gonna keep that. Okay, Chad, I will give you, you know,

Morgan L. Stogsdill (35:28)

One fourth of the sectional.

Andrea Rappaport (35:29)

Yeah, we'll cut the sectional into fourths. So then we're going to play spin the bottle. And after we do, you know, then you keep it. No, but you're going to give Chad this, this and that, and then you get the sectional. And if Chad says, no, Brenda, go fuck yourself. That is my sectional. I'm keeping it. At what point do you say, okay, fine. And you go get a new sectional. That's what we're saying. Do not go round and round and round over a piece of furniture.

or over vacation time, whatever it is, people tend to dig their heels in at the very end because they're scared of losing control. And some people are scared of the divorce process being finished because then there's some finality to it. And they've gotten so accustomed to fighting that they're like, I don't know who I am when this thing is over. This sofa is the last thing that I have. You gotta let it go, kiddo, because you're only

digging yourself deeper into debt, into a hole, over a couch. And you know what? I bet they're not that great.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (36:33)

That sectional is not that nice, it's used. Anyway, here are your marching orders, friends. These are the biggest regrets that we want you to avoid and here's what to do instead. First regret, number one, leaving money on the table by rushing through the process. Instead of doing this, let's do something very specific. Let's talk to your lawyer about these are my goals and when I'm gonna get this done, is that realistic? And if it is realistic or whatever date is realistic, how do we get from A to Z?

Get a plan together.

Andrea Rappaport (37:03)

All right, the second regret, letting other people, not your attorney, influence your divorce decisions, especially if you have a new love interest in your life. Let them handle things in the bedroom, not in the courtroom. Ew, gross, I can't believe I just said that. But I know, yucky, ew, who am I? ⁓ But seriously, let them take you out to dinner, not take you into mediation. I could go with these.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (37:21)

We-we're gross. Ugh.

Andrea Rappaport (37:30)

all day long. ⁓ If it's a family member who actually does have a brain and can be helpful, use them in the smartest way. If they are on a call with you, they are on mute until the very end and they get a few minutes to ask questions and that is it. Do not let another person beyond your attorney derail your case.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (37:31)

Please note.

Number three, regret waiting to file without a plan. What should you do instead? You should ask your lawyer based upon my facts. Is there any reason that you see that I would benefit if I waited? And if not, then you want to probably talk to your therapist about getting up the courage to go forward.

Andrea Rappaport (38:11)

That's right. Waiting without a plan is going to make you mentally drained. You're going to be at a weaker point and it is going to make your divorce that much harder. Number four, don't forget, just like how we don't want you to leave money on the table, don't get cheap. Utilize experts.

If your attorney says you need our family wizard, if your attorney says, think you need a forensic accountant, if your attorney says, I really feel like you should get a therapist, use those experts to help you. There are ways to save money and there are ways where you need the support and not getting that support, just like Morgan's story, can end up costing you more money in the end. All right, Morgan, round it out for me, girl.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (38:55)

And the last one, wasting money fighting when you could have come to the agreement that you should have and saved money. Think of this. This is the balsamic argument. Do I really need this in order to get this divorce done? And if I do, am I willing to pay maybe four times the cost for my attorney to get this balsamic? Instead, what I suggest is ask your attorney whether it's worth

fighting over in their opinion.

Andrea Rappaport (39:22)

Bringing it back to Billy Bob and Angelina, I wonder if they had an argument over something ridiculous. Like now I really want to know. Like I highly doubt it was over balsamic vinegar, but I wonder like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, do you remember this Morgan?

Do you remember that they had a vial of each other's blood that they wore around their neck?

Morgan L. Stogsdill (39:43)

That's the only thing I remember. And I do remember the fact that it was a vial of blood, which was really weird. And then his name was Billy Bob. And so that combined together, I was like, okay, okay.

Andrea Rappaport (39:54)

I

wonder if there was an argument over custody of the blood. You know what's so creepy is like, I, again, I really do love Landman. I love watching him in Landman. And I forget that he's not that character, like in real life, that he's actually a little bit kooky and he carried someone's blood. I actually, maybe it's not kooky. I want my husband to carry around my blood. You say you love me, show it. Where's the blood, bitch?

Morgan L. Stogsdill (40:18)

⁓ Ew, no! Gross.

Andrea Rappaport (40:22)

⁓ God, guys, leave the blood in a vial around someone's neck, not on the courtroom floor. We don't want a bloodbath. Ooh, like what I'm doing here. We don't want a bloodbath. We want you to get divorced. And Morgan famously says on every single episode of this show, divorce is a marathon. It is not a sprint.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (40:45)

And some days are going to be really crappy days during your divorce. It just is. Some days are day by day, other days are hour by hour, but guess what? It will be okay. You'll get through this. And listen, if you need more community or a little more help, we answer every DM, join our private community online, get our guides that are on our website, do whatever you need to get the help that you need to be your best version of yourself going through this process.

Andrea Rappaport (41:11)

I sucked at getting divorced. I did a lot of these things wrong and I don't want you to suffer the way that I suffered. I don't want your kids to suffer the way that mine did. You can do this in a better way. Listen. Listen to the experts. Stick around. Listen to our show. Go back and listen to old episodes.

We want to help you. are here for you. And even on the days when you feel like, my God, I cannot do this. Guess what? You are doing it. Keep doggie paddling. Your arms might get tired, but we promise you, keep your head above water and you will get to the other side.

Morgan L. Stogsdill (41:49)

your worst days, friends, you have got this and we have got you.

How Not To Suck At Divorce (41:56)

The How Not to Suck a Divorce podcast shall not be copied or rebroadcast without consent. This podcast does not contain legal advice. The information heard on this show shall not and should not be used as legal advice.