Well, hello dear listener.

Welcome to the Iron Fist and the Velvet Glove podcast, where we talk about

news and politics and sex and religion.

Look, we used to do it every week, but it's becoming bi weekly at the

moment with other things going on.

So anyway, we're back this week, we're going to talk about Scamone

and his lies, and we're going to talk about a bunch of other topics.

So sit back and relax and enjoy it.

If you're in the chat room, please say hello and let us know you're

there and make some comments.

We'll try and get to them if we can.

I, of course, am Trevor, AKA the Iron Fist.

With me as always is Shea the Subversive.

Hello.

And Joe the Tech Guy.

Evening all.

Alright, well, it's been two weeks, and look really, the last week in particular,

pretty much the whole two weeks, Scott Morrison and the fiasco with what went on

overseas in terms of Macron and then with Biden and all that sort of stuff, and my

goodness, he was just exposed as a As a liar who can't keep track of his lies.

Like he's, he's, he's making so many lies that he just responsibly just, he

just responds with lies to any sort of threat to what he perceives and he can

no longer sort of keep them all straight with the previous lies he's made.

So he got exposed, which was interesting to watch, although a

bit depressing, Shay, do you think?

Like just seeing him bumble around?

Yes.

Embarrassing from our point of view.

Especially, typically, certainly I've found in my international

relations and friendships is that we're quite well liked, usually.

Yes.

Not really, you're not typically avoided.

Yes.

Yeah.

Yes, but we'll be starting to get a reputation, so.

That's right.

Like people are going, what's going on?

Why, why have they got this guy?

It's a reflection on Australia.

Absolutely.

That we've got this buffoon in charge.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And.

Look, part of it is an accurate reflection in that I think we're very comfortable

here and we haven't been challenged enough And so we just don't care enough.

And so we're letting a bunch of bozos overtake us while

we're asleep On our watch.

Mm hmm.

And then so it's one part.

I think the second part is the Murdoch press just continues to Allow

guys like Morrison to skate through largely unscathed on lots of things.

Like if they were not propping him up, he would have never got

there in the first place, let alone survived as long as he has.

So it's a combination of our good fortune to be so comfortable that

we're just asleep at the wheel.

And an incompetent.

Opposition, I think.

Yes.

And, but we don't kind of want to hear from an opposition that there are problems

because we like to think we're comfortable and that it's almost, you know,

Morrison's stick is to say, it's all good.

We're good.

How good is Australia?

And for the opposition to say, actually, things aren't that good.

This is not good.

That's not good.

I'm thinking more of the, the big fear campaign about the coal mining.

Yes.

And I think what we're lacking is a viable plan of this is the

future for regional Australia.

This is how we're going to get rid of coal mining.

These are the industries that we're going to train you in.

Here is our plan to change Australia away from mining and into other,

you know, renewable energy.

Yes.

And you're right.

Labor parties, um, Not doing a good job either, and essentially, it's not

because they've been hijacked, but they've always been beholden to the

unions, and we've just got these, these people who have done nothing except

union jobs all their lives, and, or they've worked in offices for, for Labor

members, which is the calibre of people who are prepared to put their hand up.

It's terrible at the moment, so.

And not just that, there's some structural problems with party deals and like

Scott Morrison was actually rewarded for his bad behaviour and his sneakiness.

Yes.

And that certainly happens in the whole system, doesn't

matter what party you're from.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So a lot of cleaning up to do.

So Christian Nutbags overtaking the Liberals, Union Nobodies overtaking Labor.

Which they always have, uh, a comfortable society that's, that doesn't want to

hear that things aren't as good as they might on the surface appear to be.

And in the end, we end up with a deal like Morrison representing us overseas.

That's why, combination of factors.

And what is it like 8 percent of Australians, probably less

actually involved in politics?

Yes.

So that's a small pool of talent we're trying to draw from.

So it's all quite depressing, dear listeners, but let's just

run through and depress ourselves if that's what we've got to do.

At least we'll be fully informed as we're depressed.

So look, I found this quite fascinating, the whole saga on what Morrison told the

French about the deal and what he told the Americans and how all that panned out.

So here's, here's how I see it.

So, middle of June, Morrison actually met with Macron, and we'll talk

about it in detail, but essentially Morrison was quite positive about

the subs deal, 15th of June.

And 16th of September, AUKUS is announced, and at that point, He cancels the sub

deal with the French, says we're going to do something with the Americans, not

sure what it is, but we're going to do something and it's going to be nuclear.

And then of course, we've had this meeting with the climate

and stuff on the 1st of November.

So, so initially Morrison admitted that he didn't tell the French

until Aukus was announced.

Like, that was his initial statements on the record, that

he didn't tell the French.

And the reason was, he said, quote, That was not a matter that

I was going to engage in, in any sort of broad conversation about.

So his initial statement about what he didn't tell the French

was that he didn't tell them.

And when, of course, Macron was bailed up by the journalists, and they said,

Do you think, uh, Morrison's a liar?

And he said, I don't think I know, in that beautiful French accent.

Are you a sucker for a French accent?

At that point, Morrison is feeling offended that he's

been labelled as deceptive.

So, he then changes tact to say, I did tell them, kind of.

And look, here's a text message that proves what I'm saying.

A private text message, which customarily would never be revealed, but, but he

just blurts out the private text message.

And the private text message was, it didn't prove his point.

It proved that Macron was unsure of what was going to happen.

So it didn't help.

And we don't see any of the text before or after it to give it its context.

Who knows what was said.

Indeed by Morrison, after that text, let, I'd be prepared to bet

a substantial amount that if he responded to that text, it would have

been nothing to worry about, mate.

Thumbs up!

Exactly, exactly.

So, So, initially, we didn't tell the French, then, oh, look, we told

the French enough that they could work it out, that they were nervous.

And then Biden comes out and says, well, we thought the French knew,

surprise to us that they didn't know.

That's right.

And so then Morrison leaks another document, a 15 page confidential

memo between Australia and the U.

S.

which details explicitly.

But they were keeping the French in the dark until AUKUS was announced.

And so he uses that to prove that the Americans knew that

the French did not know.

So on the one hand, he's really saying the French didn't know.

Then he says, oh, they did know.

Look at this text.

Then he releases a 15 page statement.

Which is him and the Americans and the British colluding together and

admitting they're not going to tell the French until Aukus is revealed.

Well, of course it's all the UK's fault.

Yes.

They hate the French.

But this is where he's lost track of his lies.

He's telling so many lies that he's just like, Oh, now I've

got to hit Biden with something.

I'll hit him with this.

Oops.

Hang on a minute.

That totally contradicts what I've been saying.

It proves that the French didn't know, because we actively told them

we weren't, we actively agreed we weren't going to tell them, and we

were dealing with how we're going to smooth the waters once we tell them.

Just, just appalling behaviour.

You know, like, okay, you can cancel a contract, you can terminate contracts,

but you just do it openly and honestly, and These guys could have built a

nuclear sub if that's what you wanted.

Exactly.

Or they, you know, rightly said, they gave us access to information about

confidential security stuff on the basis that we'd be going ahead with a contract.

And now we've pulled out and they're going, wish we hadn't

told them all that stuff.

Fair enough complaint, but you just want to be treated with respect.

That's right.

And of course, when you read the Murdoch press, it's so Apparently the French one.

Up to speed with what weren't keeping their deals on the submarine.

Well, that's another one of the lies of my son.

It's another one of the lies.

So, uh, let me just scoot forward to that.

Let me just see.

So, okay.

No, I'm going to get to that in a minute.

And we could have rung them up a few years ago and said, this

isn't working, couldn't we?

Yes, I mean, they were doing some querying with them, but in the June

meeting, Morrison said, look, we had some issues, but on the whole,

it was all very positive and it's onwards and upwards sort of stuff.

So, yeah.

So, so.

On the 1st of November, when Morrison is pissed with Macron, he said, on the

submarine contract, there was a lot of issues in relation to delays in the

project and of course the costs, and it was our concerns over the early delays and

the delivery on, particularly on things like Australian industry content, time and

cost, that had raised concerns in my mind.

So basically complaining about time delays and cost overruns.

That was on the 1st of November.

But the truth is, back in September the 16th, when he announced AUKUS and he

said we're cancelling the French subs.

He said, we're announcing the termination of the contract, asked about blowouts,

delays, all sorts of complications.

Morrison said, I wouldn't share your assessment of the project as you outlined.

I'm aware of those criticisms, but I don't believe they're

all founded in what is fact.

And I'm sure the Defence Secretary would agree with me.

The Defence Secretary later told a Senate Estimates hearing.

They have been terminated because our requirements have changed, not because

of the poor performance by either the Naval Group or Lockheed Martin Australia.

So, they just completely changed their tune depending on what

they're wanting to do at the time.

Just bald faced lies all the time.

That are on the record.

These are things that are part of press conferences.

That's right.

No accountability.

None.

It's so frustrating that even though it's on the record, the videotape

is there, you are a complete fucking liar and nobody cares.

And, according to The Australian, Morrison's doing a great job,

and it's McCron who's, um, being peevish about the whole thing.

Yeah.

Ah, I told you it was going to be depressing, dear listener.

What's the solution?

Okay, if, in the chat room, hello to James and Greg, Dire Straits, Bronwyn,

Jack H., and Greg again, so, yeah.

So keep up with your comments in there and have a good chat.

It was Scamo who was quoted.

He, literally, his words were quoted.

Back to him and he was saying that's misrepresentation.

Yes, indeed, indeed.

So what can we do when truth no longer matters?

It's, it's like something out of an Orwellian novel, isn't it?

Where they're, you know, they're rewriting stuff.

War with Eurasia.

Exactly.

Now you don't even have to rewrite it, just claim it.

Like, why bother going back and erasing things because you don't have to.

You can just paint a new reality and just charge on without even altering the

historical documents if people don't care.

And enough of them don't.

And that's what Trump has brought to the world, isn't it?

Yes.

He was the person that introduced the, just bluster your way through and

keep on lying and eventually people will give up trying to correct you.

Yes.

And this wasn't always the case.

No.

It was not the case in previous years.

Go back 10, 20 years.

This didn't happen like this.

So, it's incredibly frustrating to, to watch.

And I don't know what the solution is.

Except, there is a talk of a, a petition for a royal

commission on the Murdoch Empire.

So, you know, let's hope that gets up.

Because They are a sort of a key feature in this.

If there was just a regular normal media, none of this would happen.

But I don't know what you can do to create a regular normal media

anymore except Turn off Facebook?

Well, yes.

Turn off I don't know.

I mean, I, as you know, read all about it.

I read the Kumar, the Australian bits and pieces.

I don't know.

And I was getting quite frustrated at one point and then I just had to change my

mindset and say, instead of reading the newspaper, I'm about to sit down and read

the propaganda newsletter from Mr Murdoch.

And this is just an insight into, Murdoch's priorities at this point

in time, and just treat it like that.

You just cannot treat it like a normal newspaper.

You would just, you'll just kill yourself if you do.

So, okay.

So, yeah.

Oh, actually, now what other things did, just before we finish with

Macron and, and, and Morrison?

Well, the other thing was that Macron was very specific when he

said, I love the Australian people.

I love and respect them.

They're great, the Australian people.

Mm.

Mm.

But essentially, when it comes to your leader, he's a fucking arsehole.

That's right.

That bit was unsaid.

And what does Morrison say?

I won't be flagged.

I will not stand for my fellow Australians being vilified like this.

I've got broad shoulders.

I can handle abuse.

But I will not tolerate my fellow Australians and my country being vilified.

Being spoke about in this manner, and it's like, what language are we talking here?

Like, sometimes you would think, oh, I wish I'd anticipated he would say

that, and I would have put in the proviso so that he couldn't say that.

Yeah.

And LeCron has actually done that.

He's anticipated the bullshit.

He's put in a very specific, I'm fine with Australians, just not that one,

and totally blustered his way through.

It's quite incredible.

Quite incredible.

That part was incredible.

What else was in there?

Oh, the highlight.

You know, I wanted to say highlights of the whole interaction here.

I think that was about it.

So, yeah.

So, Nicky Savva, journalist, said.

It's an outstanding trifecta.

When the Chinese refuse to talk to you, the American president

thinks you are a boofhead and the French president calls you a liar.

And of course, well, the other thing there with that climate conference

was nobody listened to his speech.

It was an empty room.

Did you see the Australian pavilion?

Yes.

Sponsored by Santos.

With a coffee machine and a flat screen TV with nothing on it.

And then, like, Twitter went nuts over this as well, because they're

like, Oh, he wasn't yelling.

It was the echo.

Because that image was only, like, came to light afterward.

First, there he is.

And From, oh yeah, Greg Blackshaw says, don't forget to call everyone

else Orwellian as you do it.

That's right, yeah.

Okay, so, the other thing was, when he was giving his speech,

he meant to say climate change.

And, but instead, he's talked about China, so I've just got a clip for you

here, so just Just have a listen to this.

The scene is set.

Global momentum to tackle China.

Climate change is building.

Tackle China.

Climate.

Tackle China.

Climate.

Tackle China.

Climate.

You're so used to tackling China.

That's right.

You forgot.

Every time he gets behind a microphone.

I'm obviously here to tackle China.

I must be.

Oops.

Oopsies.

Climate change.

Oh, yeah.

So, yeah, look, um, Crikey is doing excellent work, I think, these days.

If you don't have a Crikey subscription, I would recommend it, actually.

If you're, yeah, I really like the John Menendee blog, and I really like Crikey

is doing some good investigative stuff.

So they have on their page assembled, basically, a list of lies by Morrison.

So, they have his statement, and they have a footnote as to when

and where he said it, and a link.

So, you can categorically know that he said, you know, ABC, and then of

course six weeks later, a footnote and a link as to where he said ABC.

The complete opposite.

And there's just a litany of these lies from Morrison that they're producing.

They also did a really good series on, on religion with uh, Morrison and, and, yeah,

they're doing really good stuff at Crikey.

So if you've got a spare few dollars, that's a group worth supporting.

So, so the bit I called out before about the lies in relation to The delays in

the project, as opposed to just changing their mind, that was from Crikey.

And, so, Sammy J did a really good one where he pretended to be

a Royal Commission into whether Scott Morrison is a liar or not.

And, it goes on a bit, but I've just got an excerpt here from that, and

I'll just play that one as well.

The question remains, if, hypothetically, the Prime Minister was capable of

lying, What else might have been untrue?

Were they really on water matters?

Can he, in fact, hold a hose?

Will net zero by 2050 really kill the economy?

Were sporting grants really distributed on the basis of merit?

Was Hillsong Pastor Brian Houston's invitation to the

White House really just gossip?

Was Australia really at the top of the queue for vaccines?

Was he really loyal to his leader?

Was his office really not made aware of allegations of sexual assault?

These things we'll never know.

I think we know the answer on most of them.

There we go.

Alright, that's enough on Scott Morrison just for the moment.

I'll scoot back to him briefly at another point, but so, let's,

let's move on to some other things.

I saw an interesting post from a friend who said Now, Queensland often gets

accused of being sort of Hicksville, don't we, sort of painted as being

uncultured and all the rest of it?

Well, as of yesterday, so this was November the 2nd, the Queensland

government made world feminist history.

We have a woman as a feminist.

Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, Premier of the State, Governor of the

State, Police Commissioner, and the heads of the four top universities in the state.

That wasn't bad, really.

Jobs for the, jobs for the girls.

Yeah.

So, when you think about Montesquieu's separation of powers, where you've got

the The legislature, the judiciary, and you've got the enforcement arm of the

police at the moment, all run by women.

Pretty good.

And even the governor.

I'm not familiar with all of them, but they mostly seem very talented as well.

So anyway, that's Queensland at the moment, dear listener.

Uh, a lot of women in charge.

So there we go.

Now, this was an interesting one, Shea.

The Horticulture Award.

So, there's been a scam going on for God knows how long now, where we have

these awards in all sorts of industries, minimum hourly rate had to be paid,

except for fruit picking, and that's it.

And basically there were these piecemeal rates that were existing where people

had to pick X number of apples, oranges, strawberries, or whatever.

And they would be paid based on the number of pieces of fruit

or boxes that they filled.

And a decision came out.

So the Fair Work Commission decision granted the AWU's application to vary

the award to end that current exemption.

So now there has to be a minimum hourly wage paid and look, if you get a picker

who's really fast and you can still have an incentive in there that if they pick

a whole lot of fruit in a short amount of time, you can pay them more, but you

have to pay them at least the minimum.

I did read a thing in there that said the option was either award.

Or piecework, but the piecework, the rate had to be negotiated between

the unions and the employers.

And it was never negotiated by the unions.

The employers just said, we're giving you this much.

Yes, it was never a negotiation because often the people involved

couldn't speak English or limited, unaware of their legal rights, or were

backpackers or were on temporary visas and they were beholden to the employer.

Yeah.

And it was basically a take it or leave it approach.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So I was telling you earlier, one of the young people I know is an Aussie.

He went and did some fruit picking and one of the tricks he learned was different

rows in the field would be less productive for some reason because they had more

sunlight like on the ends or whatever and so if you were stuck on one of those you

would earn less money because you were picking second class fruit and You got

less money for it and things like that.

So even though he was working just as hard that day, if he was in a wrong

patch, bad luck, got less money.

So that's a good thing that that's at an end.

And like, sometimes I look at, do you ever look at a punnet of fruit, like

strawberries, two for 5 or something, and you think, how did they do this?

Yeah.

This is too cheap.

Yes.

I've heard of the things that the supermarkets do as well.

Oh, basically we're discounting your product this week and

you're wearing the discount.

Yes.

And all sorts of, so And what do you mean?

Oh, it's in your contract, clause, uh, 37, subparagraph B, clause 3.

Basically because they have such a large monopoly on the market.

The vendors, the, the, the growers have to go along with it, or

they just don't get shelf space.

Yeah.

And so, I think the farmers are getting the short end of the

stick and they're passing it on.

So maybe now we'll have to really look at proper regulation, like Trevor lent

me a book exactly saying what you just said about the Woolworths and Coles

basically just hitting the supply chain there to make some extra money.

So maybe the farmers will have to put more pressure on the Farmers Federation to be

like, we better go back here and have a look at this law that never got up before.

But you know, I reckon there would have been farmers.

There might be some who are actually happy with it, because they would

figure, I'd like to pay a proper wage, but I can't because I'm competing

against all these other guys.

So now I know everybody else is having to pay that same amount, I can now pay

people this amount and, and compete.

And, okay, the price is going to go up, but I know I'm not going to

be undercut by these other people because they're paying less for wages.

And personally, I know I've looked at strawberries sometimes and whatnot in the

supermarket and gone, that is so cheap, it's ridiculous, how did they pack it?

Get it on a truck, put it on this shelf and sell that for two bucks.

I just don't get how that was possible.

So I'm happy to pay a bit more.

What used to shock me was I'd go to the supermarkets in Jersey and in the UK,

Jersey is known as a potato growing area.

The early potatoes are well known.

Right.

And you'd look at the spuds and they were green and you're going

we have fields and fields of this.

This is been sitting on your shelf for how long?

Right.

It was just the, you could go and buy fresh from the local farmer down the road.

Yeah, they were selling them on a stall at the end of their driveway or whatever.

And it was an honor system.

You put a quid in and get a bag of spuds or whatever.

And people would just go to the supermarket because it was convenient.

Right.

I told you it was a depressing episode.

On the upside, it kind of sets a precedent.

Sorry, the work.

The work that I do, trying to advocate for young workers and hospitality

industry is rife in it with exploitation.

And this has given me an idea around one particular group is making

billions of dollars and paying people way below the award rate.

So maybe there are small businesses in the area who would be interested

to know that because they're trying to be fair to their workers and trying

to do the right thing and they're essentially being undercut as well.

So I could start a petition and go around to the small businesses in the

area and be like, you know, what's up?

Because talking to the workers, the workers are too afraid.

Right.

Yep.

So we need to find another ally.

Can't they just be dobbed into some They have been over and over.

Even the Courier Mail did an expose on them just before COVID

hit, like a three page lift out.

Okay.

And then COVID hit and then it just like all went away.

Right.

Just like that.

It all went away.

Well, we're desperate to get the workers back into work.

Well, actually I know somebody in the HR world, in retail, and she

was telling me that it's really hard to get workers at the moment.

Just, just shop assistant roles and basically has to

take whatever she can get.

There's no point interviewing and checking things and whatever, because if they've

got a warm body and a pulse, um, they've pretty much got a job at the moment, it

seems, in retail as a shop assistant.

So yeah, so that was in Sydney.

And that's the great.

Is it the Great Awokening?

With everybody resigning?

Yeah, I've seen that, but I haven't really investigated it.

But it's supposed to be a movement where people are saying,

Bugger this, I'm outta here.

Basically, with the lockdowns and everything, people are

reconsidering their priorities.

And a lot of people in the States, it started in the States, have

gone, You're taking advantage of me.

I just don't feel that this work is worth my time and effort.

And they're just quitting.

Yeah.

And they're getting enough social security that they can still survive?

Or they're just changing careers.

They've decided that this was the shake up to finally get out of what they hated.

I'm surprised they've got choices.

I'm sort of, I'm surprised they're not locked into paying a rent or a

mortgage and so that they can't do that.

That's what I would have thought intuitively.

Yeah, I think because they're already living head to mouth.

Right.

Okay.

They're thinking, well, yeah.

Okay.

How much harder can it get?

When I first got stood down, I went and got a job at a furniture

shop and I was like, bloody hell, I was so spoiled in my previous job.

This is really hard.

Right.

And I quit.

Right.

Even though I really didn't know whether there was any more income coming in.

There you go.

And got another job at a different retail shop and that was considerably better, so.

Right.

Okay.

There's some competition there.

But But this is, there's got to be something better than this.

Because I knew there was something better because I previously worked with Secure

Work and got my allocated bregs and yeah.

So yeah, it's like, nope, not copying it.

All right.

So yeah, so that was the AWU and a good battle there was done by them.

So well done.

AWU, a union actually achieving something.

Why did it take so long?

That's my only question.

I don't know.

Actually, talking of farm workers, every time the whole human trafficking

comes up and people always go, oh, sex workers, sex workers, it's all about

the sex, you know, sex smuggling.

It isn't.

The vast majority of trafficked people end up fruit picking,

or doing other farm work.

Yes.

So they're also known for that.

So whether this will cause an increase because they're now having

to pay people real wages so they'll just smuggle people in, or whether

this will fix that, I don't know.

It's quite difficult to smuggle people in though, isn't it?

At the moment, yes.

All right, we'll see.

Now, meanwhile, in America, the Senate of the U.

S.

state of Wisconsin has just approved a bill.

Allowing 14 year old children to engage in paid work until as late as 11pm.

Climbing up chimneys?

Possibly.

Yes.

Businesses throughout the state see a massive increase in

traffic during the summer tourist season, explained a spokesperson

pushing for child night workers.

So much so that it can be difficult to find employees to

work odd hours and seasonal times.

And according to the writer of the article, that's what

overtime is for, isn't it?

Well, according to the writer of the article, I mean, they could offer to

pay adults more money, but that's not how modern capitalism chooses to roll.

There we go.

Mind you, when I was 15 or 16, I was working at McDonald's after

school, and on a weeknight.

Would work a shift from 5 till 10.

30 or 11.

Yeah, so Every day?

No, no, just different odd hours and things.

So that was sort of commonplace back then.

Mm.

For 15 year olds, yeah.

And you've noticed that all the fast food establishments hire teenagers

and then sack them when they turn 18.

Yes, that's right.

Well, you don't sack them, you just don't give them work.

Many shifts, extremely.

Well, that's true, yes.

And you just, oh, sorry, didn't have any work for you this week.

That's right.

Yeah, just had a bunch of new people, funnily enough, 15 year

olds who I had to give some work to.

Who we pay half the rate that we have to pay you.

That's right.

That's right.

That's right.

And really, and that happened at McDonald's for sure, all the time.

Oh absolutely, still does.

And really, the point was, well you're now 18, go and pull the ears and a butt.

Like, now you can work in a licensed establishment.

Go and do that job.

Yes, you get paid more if you have your RSA anyway, so go off you go.

Yep, exactly.

Okay, so Yeah, The Great Resignation was what it was called.

That was it.

Yeah.

So, Americans refusing to return to the workplace conditions

they no longer accept.

So, I'm just surprised.

Diastrates says there's a huge homeless population in the U.

S.

and a lot of them have a job.

That is true diastrates.

So.

Hmm.

A lot of working poor who Yeah, live in their cars quite often

in the car, in the parking lot.

Yeah.

That's why I just can't work, figure these people could actually quit.

I don't know what they're going to do.

Food, anyway.

Food banks.

Apparently the queues at the beginning of COVID for food banks was huge.

Because people were, yeah, the businesses were just laying people off.

Yeah.

Some incredible percentage of Americans are on food stamps, like something like 30

Robert Wright regularly talks about that.

But Walmart, so the biggest, biggest employer, I think, certainly the

biggest private employer in the States, pay their employees so little

that they end up on food stamps.

So effectively, the U.

S.

taxpayer is subsidized at Walmart.

Yes.

By paying or by giving them food so they can afford to

work for nothing for Walmart.

Yes.

And the other thing is they get financial advisors to come in to

talk to the staff and the assumption is that everybody has a second job.

Yes.

When they're talking to them in terms of their structuring their affairs and all

the rest of it is now for the second job.

Yeah.

So we've talked about it before, the amount, you know, in the sixties, A, uh,

a working class American was a Detroit auto worker who was on the equivalent of

60, 000 in today's money plus health care.

And now that same worker is a Walmart worker who's on essentially

20, 000 and no health care.

That's the sort of thing.

The way it's worked out.

Oh, Allison says, my 20 year old nephew and his girlfriend

both work for Walmart in Texas.

Well, tell us some stories, Allison.

Are they, well, are they students?

Are they, do they need second jobs?

Are they trying to support a family?

That would be interesting to know what their experience is there.

Okay, Talk Around the Traps religious discrimination bill is

still on the agenda, it seems.

So, one of the few things that this government might

actually do, unfortunately, is try and get this bill passed.

So It's important, you know.

Yeah.

Because Christians is discriminated against all the time.

Indeed.

So, there's a few things in there.

Look, on the face of it, if it was just a, A discrimination bill, like every other

discrimination bill, basically protecting individuals if they are discriminated

against for being of a particular religion, you'd go, okay, fair enough.

But what the bill in its draft form is doing is, it's going to have a Falau

clause that will give legal protection to somebody wanting to express a statement

of belief, in the same way that Falau told everybody they're going to hell.

But still wanted all the sponsors to pay him money for being a role model.

So they would stop an employer from sacking somebody for

expressing that belief.

It's going to be a conscientious objection.

I'm going to have fun with that.

You are?

Mmm.

Oh, because you're a Pastafarian, Lloyd?

Yes.

Right.

I'm going to loudly express my beliefs about Christians.

Right.

Okay, yes.

Or Satanists could do the same.

Yes.

Yes.

Yeah.

And the wire was frized.

Certainly in the early drafts was, you know, it had to be a statement in

accordance with the belief of your church.

But it didn't have to be a belief widely held within the church.

All you needed was, was it something that somebody in that religion

could conceivably hold as a belief?

It didn't really need to be a core belief in any sense.

Well, when this was first mooted, I was in hospital.

And I overheard a couple of student doctors talking.

And one of them said, well, of course, if this bill passes, it's

my deeply held religious belief that politicians don't need analgesia.

Right.

So if any of them come in for any medical attention at all, I'm not

going to give them pain relief because it goes against my religious beliefs.

Yes.

Well, they could have been relying on the other provision, which is

conscientious objection provisions that allow health practitioners to

refuse to provide certain treatment.

This is aimed, of course, at bedroom matters of birth control and things

like that, where pharmacists would not want to provide condoms or the morning

after pill or something like that.

Oh, well, the worrying one was the pill.

Yes, or just the pill.

Refusing to provide the pill and you're going, there are many other

reasons for people to be on the pill.

That's right.

Not just contraception.

Indeed.

And, you've chosen to be in a business that's highly regulated, and in fact

the government says, well we're not going to put a pharmacist in this area

because there's already one here, and but if you are there and you provide all

of these services then we will license you and we'll do all these things.

I mean, if you don't want to be part of that system, don't become a pharmacist.

Exactly.

Part of the deal.

So, look, I was quickly looking through the messages in the chat room and I see,

did he ever have to wear a nappy, Bronwyn?

So, I don't know what that's about, but anyway.

So, the Amazon workers Oh, okay.

Um, uh, aren't given time to go to the toilet.

That's Amazon.

But Alison's friend was in Walmart.

Yes.

I think, I think they get, it's not quite as tough as Amazon.

I believe it isn't.

Yeah.

So, I lent you that book by that lady who, so in this book, this lady, she's

a journalist, and as an experiment, she decides to try three different jobs.

One is as a worker in an Amazon warehouse.

McDonald's.

And a, uh, McDonald's, and the third one was a call centre.

Yes.

And so it's very interesting.

It's really interesting.

It's so sad.

Yeah, it's so sad.

Was it an outbound call center?

A sales call center?

It was a, it was a complaints.

Okay.

Or a tech help complaints.

That's slightly less depressing.

The outbound ones where they're cold calling people trying to sell them shit.

And you're based on commission.

That would No, this was help center.

So of the three, it was interesting.

Physically, the.

The Amazon warehouse was just a really physical ordeal where

everyone's legs were killing them.

And the painkillers, there was an office where you could normally go to get

painkillers, but what Amazon decided was there was too many people waiting

outside the office door, wasting time.

So they put them in a vending machine that you could access

for free, your painkillers.

And a common talk amongst the workers was about, be careful,

don't take too many painkillers.

It's sort of tempting to, to, to go for too many and you

need to regulate yourself.

And a lot of these people sleeping in cars.

That's right.

Their coping strategies included, you know, alcohol and, essentially

handed this gadget and this trolley and you just scoot around this

warehouse Madly grabbing stuff.

The thing told you, you've got to be at aisle 421, section D, within

25 seconds to maintain the pace.

Grab that widget, put it in the box, keep going.

And it was just head down, bum up, the entire time.

Oh, it's time for my An overarching threat of being, uh, bringing in robots.

Yeah.

Yeah, so they better keep up the pace.

And now time for my break.

I've got a 20 minute or a 30 minute meal break.

I'm at the wrong end of the warehouse, and it's literally 25 minutes to get to

the canteen, you know, where my lunch is.

Terrible stuff.

It was terrible.

That sounded really grueling.

And then the other one was the McDonald's worker was, yeah, some

customers were rough and tough on people and it was hard work.

That one didn't seem too bad, but the one that really got her was the call

center was, Emotionally, they'd have people screaming at them on the phone

and, and they would just fall to pieces and just be shattered by the experiences.

It was, of the three, the call centre sounded the worst to me.

Yeah, so that was interesting.

One of my customers is a council, and I've Install the, uh, the call center for them,

right, and they have a area with a couch, right, where if they've been dealing with

puppies, right, almost, right, if they've been dealing with a rough customer, the

supervisor literally just sends them there for 10 minutes to calm down and yeah.

Because they understand that some customers are assholes.

Yes, yeah.

And certainly it might be changing now, but my personal experience is there is

a level of self control face to face.

It does seem to be somewhat not, not as typical on the phone.

Yeah.

Some people do some terrible screaming at people, so.

Yeah, I'll, we'll get you the name of the book at some stage, dear listener.

Good one to read.

It's quite depressing and, and a lot of these people were living in their cars.

Yeah.

And it's the American Dream, though.

Yeah, that's right.

Yes.

Yeah, that was a little sideline.

Oh yeah.

Back to the religious discrimination bill.

And the other one was of course, the ability for religious

institutions to discriminate against staff on the basis of religion.

So, a few things in this religious discrimination bill.

Robin and I, representing the Noosa Temple of Satan, will

be meeting with Amanda Stoker.

Oh, you finally got a meeting?

Yes, it's due for Monday.

Well, allegedly.

We'll see it when it happens.

This Monday?

Yes.

Ah, very good.

Are you going to wear your dog collar again?

I don't know, I don't know.

I was impressed with those photographs.

So dear listener, we had our Noosa Temple of Satan protest march.

I was very happy with my outfit.

Yeah.

Yeah, it looked good.

I had the, uh, I had the full minister's dog collar on and, uh, I like to think

I had the scariest outfit there, yeah?

Yes, I would agree, I thought it was funny.

It felt really weird walking the street heading towards it because

There was a Halloween costume I saw which was a Catholic priest with a

young child attached at the groin.

Oh right, okay.

So, um, so anyway, yes dear listener, I forgot to mention we had our Because

we exercised our religious freedom, we were Unable to book the J to hold

our, our annual Black Mass ceremony.

So it was good.

Had a little ceremony on the street, marched down Hastings

Street, let the traffic through.

Came back up, lovely group of people, some lovely people showed

up, probably about 30 to 35 I reckon.

Shae's mum was there, police were good, police turned up, um, onlookers, so

onlookers were, were fine, gave us a bit of a cheer, TV crew was there, so one day

there'll be a compass episode some stage next year, so you'll see it all there

as part of the whole thing, so anyway it was, it was good fun, and just lovely

people actually, who all got it, and.

And we're good.

Yeah, good, interesting mix of people.

So hello to Mel, if you're there in the chat room.

Maybe you're not Mel, but she was there as well with her family.

So yeah, a few kids were there.

Yeah, yeah.

Next year we'll have to start a little bit earlier because the kids

were starting to, um, get tired.

Yeah, get tired.

So sort of a storm came, but it just passed us at the right time.

Well, we got a little bit soaked, but by the time we were marching, it was okay.

So yeah, all good.

Yeah.

Okay.

That was the Registered Discrimination Bill.

Have you heard about JFK Truthers?

This was probably the most alarming thing about this conspiracy

stuff so far, do you think?

This QAnon crazies in America is, is, is just plain weird.

So, there's an article.

It's not an uncommon sight in the United States.

Hundreds of supporters turning out to see their preferred candidate

announcing a politician run.

But a massive crowd in Dallas, Texas were left disappointed when their

candidate didn't show up at all.

But there's a good reason for his absence.

John F.

Kennedy Jr.

has been dead for 21 years.

Nevertheless, hundreds of QAnon conspiracy theorists showed up at D.

Lee Plaza in the expectations that Mr.

Kennedy would emerge.

They thought he would be named as Vice President to a reappointed Donald Trump.

And according to this QAnon theory, Trump would resign.

JFK Jr.

would take the presidency, and then Michael Flynn would

be named as vice president.

And they all thought that this was going to happen at a particular

time, on a particular day as part of this QAnon conspiracy.

Hundreds of them showed up wearing Trump Kennedy t shirts.

And a quote from one person here, I believe at 11.

55, JFK Jr.

will be our next vice president.

And President Trump will be our president.

She did not believe that JFK Jr.

was killed in 1963 and that he would still be alive.

Or that he's a democrat.

Hang on, if, if Trump can only stand for two terms, does that mean if these people

believe that he's the president now, that he won't be able to stand in 2024?

Well, details.

Anyway, if JFK Jr.

was to appear, he'd be 104 years old, if he hadn't died already, so

It was just weird, these people, and there's a bit of a theory that JFK Jr.

is the mysterious Q himself.

So, weird footage, pictures, there were all these people

lined up in this huge long queue.

They were gathered in a single line, and one by one approached a man with a

bird on his shoulder, who appeared to be giving them individual directions.

Just crazy only in America stuff.

He's a pirate.

He's got a parrot on his shoulder.

Indeed.

So they were lining up getting instructions from him.

Anyway, there's an article here about Ruth Graham, national

correspondent at the New York Times.

Graham reported, almost everyone I spoke with brought

up religion without my asking.

We are living in biblical times.

God sent us.

It's biblical and it's about Jesus and on and on.

Most of them were regular churchgoers.

It's according to the New York Times reporter.

Neither Kennedy showed up at the appointed time, though there was some confusion

with the time zone of the prediction.

Many attendees held out hope for the Rolling Stone concert tonight,

where Michael Jackson is rumoured to be making an appearance.

Given the bizarre nature of QAnon theories, it's unclear whether the last

part of her Twitter thread was a joke.

Like, ah, they really Poe's Law.

Poe's Law?

What is it again?

Uh, that there is no No parody strange enough that it couldn't

have been said by a creationist.

Tom the Warehouse Guy, what do you think of the Biden government

blocking the release of the documents?

What documents were they?

Don't know.

I think it was it about JFK's shooting or?

Don't know.

Don't know.

Wouldn't surprise me if there was some CIA Investigators.

Sort of hand behind his assassination.

Who knows anything's possible.

So I've been alleged.

Yeah, so okay, and what else do we have here?

Oh, The whole thing about that baby Cleo, a four year old who was

abducted, and that was a long time.

I think we need to be careful about what we say, though.

Right.

Be careful.

Not, not to prejudice the trial.

Yes.

Cleo allegedly taken.

Oh, I don't know.

I think Where I'm heading with this.

Hang on, let me see what I said.

I'll, I'll Well, what I'm, the part I want to comment on is that

Morrison, of course, made comments.

He did.

I unfortunately subscribed to the Scott Morrison Facebook page.

He's such a jingoistic, good on you commentator about everything.

Of course, he had to commentate about this.

We have a picture of him.

So, I didn't see these ones, but according to this report from the Daily Mail,

quoting Morrison, this particular case has captured the hearts of Australians

and I want to thank all of the police and all of those involved in making

sure Cleo is safe, Mr Morrison said.

Thank you so much, I just thank God that Cleo is home and is safe.

And he took to social media to echo those comments, writing,

quote, Our prayers answered.

And different people responded, but the best response was Western Australian

Police Minister Paul Papalia took a subtle swipe at Morrison's comments.

Quote, If you feel the need to thank God today, thank God for

the West Australian Police Force, he said in a press conference.

It's a good line.

Only in Australia?

Like, you couldn't say that, I don't think, in America, could you?

You'd never, I mean, I haven't seen it really seen that in Australia until now.

Have you seen anybody publicly?

Sort of respond back like that?

No.

As bluntly as that?

It's sort of a first time, really.

I mean, Historically, it was one of those, you didn't talk about people's religion.

Yeah, I don't recall seeing this sort of thing.

I think it's fantastic.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, but ridiculing him for ridiculous beliefs Yeah, I'm just

yes, just sort of pointing out.

I mean it was all thank you.

Thank God honestly There must have been God's plan for it all

to happen in the first place.

Betty Bowers with, uh America's Bestest Christian.

Yes, with the thanking God for sparing your life during a mass shooting.

Yes.

It is like sending a thank you note to the psychopath who killed

everybody for not killing you.

Yes, that's right.

Yes.

Same when you see pictures of a tornado run through some American The one

building left standing has got Thank God, sort of, painted on the roof.

And all the ruins have got Fuck You God on them.

Yeah.

Okay, so that was that one.

Oh, um, just talking of Cleo, there was a grief vampire.

Sorry, a psychic.

Right.

Who is on YouTube predicting that they would find Cleo's

body because she was dead.

So she didn't see that one coming, did she?

No, that's right.

If she's from the Scott Morrison School of Probably.

History Rewriting.

Doesn't matter.

Just keep going.

Oh yeah, because you remember the hits and forget the misses.

Okay.

Now, here's another depressing one for you.

In Queensland, LNP members at the Party State Council meeting in Gladstone

on Saturday supported calls for the State Opposition to Adopt a policy

that would mandate the singing of the national anthem at the beginning

of the school day for all schools.

Uh, former state candidate Pinky Singh argued that singing the

anthem each day would foster unity.

regardless of the student's race or religion.

Maybe they could stand with their hand on their heart whilst

looking at the Australian flag and saying one nation under God.

Right.

Yes.

That's what happens in America.

Yes.

At every school in the morning all the time.

Yeah.

Right.

I don't know if it's only public schools.

Right.

But the Supreme Court found, I think, back in the fifties, that they couldn't

force children to recite the Pledge of Allegiance, but all children

do stand every morning and recite the Pledge of Allegiance, unless

they have a moral objection to it.

Right, there we go.

So, the LNP wants to bring in something like that here.

Maroochydort MP Fiona Simpson, who led the meeting singing of the anthem

earlier, said if children did not learn to embrace the importance of

the National Anthem in school, they would not understand it when they left.

She said she'd been surprised to learn a small number of schools

never sang the National Anthem.

Quote, we must ensure our children understand how important it is as

part of their national identity and then grow that as citizens, she said.

Thoughts, Shay, on singing the national anthem?

Ah, I guess I sort of saw it from the way it ties into your next

topic around taking the knee.

Right.

Yeah.

So I used to sing the Catholic song and then, uh, National Anthem,

I think, once a week at school.

Right.

You know, don't think it did me any harm.

Right.

But I don't think it was of, uh, huge importance either.

Right.

Joe, thoughts on where the kids should be?

I think they should be singing the Internationale.

What is the Internationale?

That is Is that like the Song of the Revolution or something?

Is that what it is?

It's the International Workers Song.

It's the Oh, right.

The Communists Song.

Yes.

Yep.

I think it holds more This sort of nationalist jingoism

just gives me the shits.

When people say, I'm proud to be an Australian, I'm thinking

why you were born here.

You've not done anything to achieve it.

I'm a foreigner.

I actually had to work to get here and I'm not proud of being an Australian.

You know, it's But even if you were, is that how you would choose to express it?

No.

I'm a proud Australian.

Yep.

I just, but I dunno that I would say it's just more importing of American nonsense.

Mm.

So, and just this nationalism.

Mm.

But is it gonna have that impact?

It's just not gonna have that impact on young people.

Oh, you say, so you don't think it'll have any impact on, on

people on a nationalist pride?

I just think.

Seriously, 15, 16, you know, I was like, another thing, another

bloody chore, another task.

Yeah, I mean, we had the school song, which of course was in

Latin, and even that we just, yeah.

Roman says, it was God Save the Queen when I was at primary school, showing her age.

The bad kids up the back used to sing.

God save our biscuit tin.

Don't let the flies get in.

Absolutely.

I think when I was in primary school it might have been God

Save the Queen as well, so.

And of course.

Robin, how old are you?

I'm 57.

Yeah, so.

You don't ask a lady her age.

Right, well, I think she's kind of giving it away here.

Yeah, oh my goodness.

All things bright and beautiful, of course, we ended up singing

the Monty Python version.

Right, yes, of course you did.

Yeah.

How does that go?

All Things Dull and Ugly, All Creatures Short and Squat, Putrid Fail and

Gangrenous, The Lord God Made the Lot.

Skills!

Yeah!

Roman's just turned 60, for anyone who wanted to know.

Ah, I think it's a terrible move.

I just think it's just not encouraging.

There's nothing good about it, and there's potentially bad about it.

I just think it's I just don't see the point.

Yes.

Yeah, and it's just like we're so good.

Let's sing how good we are.

But you know, isn't everybody in the world good essentially like Are

we that much better than others?

I think it's just encouraging a nationalist jingoism

that we can do without.

alles.

Yes.

So, what was the next one I had here?

Alan Tudge.

He's worried that our national curriculum It does sound like a

euphemism for masturbation, doesn't it?

Alan Tudge?

I'm just going for a quick Alan Tudge.

That's true, actually.

I'm just going to say A bit of rhyming slang.

His complaint is that the national curriculum in history is too woke and

not saying enough positive things about Anzac, Christianity and liberal democracy.

So the Labor, State and Territory Education Ministers are not being

very helpful because he wants to.

More emphasis on positive things like ANZAC, Christianity and Liberal Democracy.

And he says, quote, We should expect young Australians leaving school to understand

how our nation is one of the most free, wealthy, tolerant and egalitarian

societies in all of human history.

Tudge recently told the Centre for Independent Studies

a right wing think tank.

There we go.

That's the caliber of It is, but Not for the reasons he thinks.

And it depends on your point of view, I guess.

I mean, if you're Indigenous, you may not think it was so

tolerant and egalitarian, perhaps?

Well, but in comparison.

Well, in comparison to how they were living beforehand.

Who knows?

I was going to say, do you think that was tolerant and egalitarian?

Depending where you were, depending on your conditions.

I think there's a big variation between how good the country was to

you at the time and whether you're in good country or bad country.

Oh, I just meant in terms of whether you're male or female.

Yes.

You know, we, we tend to look back quite often and go the Noble Savage.

And I don't know that things were as bright and rosy as people like to imagine.

No, but you know what?

There was a lot of free time, I reckon.

And, um, so, because I've been doing a bit of reading also on sort of

medieval history and just lifestyles.

And, um, People had more time.

Like, I just think of people today and how busy people are.

And back in those days, okay, you're busy, you'd harvest times and other

times, but there was certainly a lot of downtime as well where you could

just eat, drink and be merry as well.

Okay, you got a small cut in your foot which ended up getting infected and Died.

But, you could read a book.

Not that there were any books around.

If you had one, you could read it.

If there was one, it was probably the Bible.

Yeah.

Not off the Gutenberg Press.

Anyway, Alan Tudge.

Finest.

Anyone watch Q& A the other day?

I did!

Did you?

I did, yeah.

Because I saw something on Twitter and I thought, that's fascinating.

Right.

So, I had the Environment Minister, oh sorry, now Treasurer, from the Liberal

Party of New South Wales on, on.

Right.

And he told the Australian Editor that he was somebody that

needs to get out of the way.

Ah.

Around renewables.

Did he say that to Greg Sheridan?

He's the Australian editor?

He's the foreign affairs editor.

Oh, well that could be it.

It would have been him, it was the only Yeah, yeah.

And publicly criticised Scott Morrison.

Right.

And was frankly really impressive.

Right.

I thought he was really impressive, I thought It gave me a little bit of

inspiration around, you know, being, making change in your own party.

So he was the, the He is the treasurer of New South Wales.

Okay, right.

Yeah.

So he's a liberal.

So he's a liberal.

Right.

Well, and he's taken them on and he's, he's gotten a

brilliant policy over the line.

They have a really ambitious target.

I think it's 2030.

And he's just stipulated in the policy that he's going to

transition everybody into jobs.

Right.

So he can only put renewables in places where he can

guarantee such and such a thing.

And that got the party over the line so now they have this ambitious target

to be New South Wales to be, yeah, zero emissions or something by I think 2030.

Right.

So.

So he seemed quite good and reasonable.

Really good.

Reasoning.

Really reasonable.

And Dominic Perrottet is happy to have him as part of his cabinet.

Wow.

I know.

Did he inherit him or?

Right.

I don't know.

Was this a.

Perrottet was the previous treasurer.

And so now this guy's been promoted to treasurer.

Well, Matt Keane has been agitating for years.

Okay.

Well, I turned it, well, I think it just came up on the screen and, uh, I thought,

oh, Q& A, I wonder what that's on tonight.

And the first thing I saw was Greg Sheridan.

And I was like, Oh, for God's sake, what is, what is the ABC doing?

Putting Greg Sheridan on these panels?

He's Quanda said, the lady who hosts it said that she asked everybody.

She asked a range, she listed all the conservative politicians.

That she'd asked to come on the show and they said no and the Australian editor

bloke, he, he said that's a mistake and We need more of them to come on

Q& A and make their case around Cole.

Really?

She said, you're wondering why he's here?

Yeah, if you're wondering why we don't have anybody from the current

government here And she listed every single person she'd invited to come

on the show, all of whom declined.

Well, she should not have invited Greg Sheridan.

She should have just said, Okay.

We've tried all these people, they didn't want to come.

Forget it.

And Greg Sheridan has been on a thousand times.

He He got schooled.

He has a platform on The Australian whenever he wants to.

He's full of shit.

Yeah.

And, And a Liberal told him so.

It was bloody fantastic.

Right.

I might have stayed to watch if I'd known that was going to happen.

I thought there was a big movement in the Liberal Party, the number of

Independents who are former Liberals, who are standing, going, I'm a Liberal, but

I don't agree with the climate policy.

I think there is a certain power base that might be funded

by certain large corporations.

But they don't reflect the majority of the party.

There we go, okay.

So, all right, Bromman says that they get monstered by government inquiries if they

don't put people like Greg Sheridan on.

Well, I reckon, just say, we invited all these clowns, none of them wanted to come

on, so if they don't come on, too bad.

That's right.

We've given them the opportunity.

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.

Just a reminder on the calibre of thought that comes from Greg Sheridan, his

comments on Iraq when America invaded.

He couldn't contain himself, he said, quote, The bald eagle of American power

is aloft, high above the humble earth.

Or as it soars and sweeps, it sees victory, power, and opportunity.

And the same Greg Sheridan, who is so anti China now, part of the anti China,

like, honestly, when I pick up the papers and read the Korean Mail in Australia

every morning, it amazes me how often they can weave in an anti China rhetoric

into the day's news in the Australian.

They just go for it all the time.

And he was corrected on that as well.

Right.

Because there was a lady there who used to work for Joe Biden and she was just

saying, Oh, it might not have been her, but it might be someone else on the panel.

Just saying China was, China has done a number of things.

They've got more electric vehicles per capita.

They've got blah, blah, blah, blah, all this stuff happening.

Right.

Yep.

So stop making America seem like they're so good.

I think.

Yeah.

So on China.

He did it a complete about face, because when Australia did the China Australia

Free Trade Agreement, CHAFTA, which of course was done by Abbott, who Greg

Sheridan LOVED, when the Labor Party said, Hmm, don't like the look and smell

of this thing, because it could be a problem for Australian jobs, and basically

questioned a whole bunch of things.

Sheridan was one of the main ones to just go for the Labor

Party and say, How dare you!

Put in jeopardy this marvellous agreement between Australia and

China, this free trade agreement.

So, the Australian declared Abbott vindicated for standing firm against

the misleading and xenophobic campaign run against Chafter.

The Aussies foreign editor Greg Sheridan attacked Bill Shorten

as absolutely disgraceful.

And said he had licensed economic vandalism and failed to speak out

against gross xenophobic paranoia from within the Labor movement, for

when Labor was questioning whether the chapter was a good deal or not.

And now you just can't shut these guys up when they're talking about

China and what they consider to be the evil, uh, things that it's up to, so.

And of course he's written that stupid book about Christianity being the

basis for everything good in the world.

Ugh.

Honestly, I just, even what you've told me, even if you promised me,

here's an hour of people just schooling Greg Sheridan on a panel show and

giving it to him, I just still couldn't watch it to look at his face

and hear his occasional comments.

Well yeah, it would have I gave you the good points, now you don't have to.

Yes, that was the best part.

And you would have found it, because even I found it frustrating, because

it was like, I let you guys finish.

It's like, well, you're talking so much shit, everybody

wants to just interrupt you.

Move on, yes.

Okay, I'm glad you've given me that pricey.

I didn't have to go through it myself.

Thank you.

You're welcome.

Alison in the chat room says, I turned his book around at Dimmicks last week.

So full of things.

Was it in the fiction section?

The fantasy section?

Okay, Taking the Knee.

So this has become the thing now for, ever since Colin Kaepernick did it.

49 as a player, quarterback at the time.

Refusing to Stand for the National Anthem.

And, so there's quite a big story about the National Anthem at NFL games.

It wasn't always the case.

Like, these things didn't always happen and, of course,

they get a life of their own.

But, we won't digress down that.

Oh, Alison says it was in the religion section.

Okay.

So he started it with this taking the knee and copped a lot of abuse for it.

And, of course, it's since then been taken up by lots of sporting teams.

Hmm.

Who take a knee.

When the national anthems are being played or sung or whatever prior

to the start of a sporting match.

Yes So in cricket, there was a South African wicketkeeper

Quinton, Quinton de Kock.

I was gonna say that sir about Alan Tudge We won't descend into that.

He decided against taking a knee alongside his Proteas

teammates at the T20 World Cup.

So, so he made headlines when he withdrew from the match against

the West Indies after Cricket South Africa issued a directive to its

players and staff to take a knee.

In support of the Black Lives Matter movement.

So a directive from up high telling him what to do.

He copped a tsunami of backlash, including from this ABC commentator, Tony Armstrong,

who said, uh, how racist do you have to be to not just take a knee and do that in

conjunction with your teammates to show support, to even pretend to show support?

But on the Thursday, De Kock released a wide ranging statement apologising to his

teammates, saying he was more than happy to participate in the anti racism gesture.

And he said if he had his time again he would have taken the knee.

So I have a bit of an issue really with sports people being told by

administration that you're gonna go down the field, we're gonna have the national

anthem, you're gonna take the knee, and then you're gonna play the game.

And it's a political statement.

To take the knee.

And, when people signed up to be sports people, aren't they just supposed to

Can they not just be a sports person?

Like, he wasn't protesting against it, he was just If you're not taking the

knee, does it say, I object to this?

Or does it say, I just don't want to do it?

I don't want to be part of a political statement.

I just, he, he object, you know, part of his reasoning was he didn't like being

told what to do and being forced to.

And I can really get that.

I have some sympathy for that.

It's like, I don't want any, I actually don't want national anthems or any

political statements at a sporting event.

Even a sporting event.

Even a test match, like a once in a year type thing, just, it's not the place.

It's just a goddamn sporting match as far as I'm concerned.

I don't like these nationalist jingoistic things.

Did you grow up with anthems before sporting things?

I don't reckon they were.

When I was a kid, I think, I don't even think Because for me they just

seemed obviously part of the course.

It's never occurred to me that they wouldn't be there.

I don't think Grand I don't even think Grand Finals I think

it's only international matches.

Yes.

Yes, might have had them.

And it was more, it was only when it was the World Cup or something like that, or

the Olympics where you were celebrating, you know, a particular team had won.

But aside from that, I don't remember.

Yeah.

Certainly soccer in the UK did.

And now?

I don't think so.

Well, it's a regular thing.

It's sort of NRL matches and whatnot these days.

But it's becoming sort of, I don't know what word I'm looking for, but It's

almost like it's becoming, uh, sports teams almost have a sense that they have

a role to play around the race stuff.

But if you're telling people And the equity stuff.

Yeah, yeah.

At first, uh, from what I looked at, at first he could opt in or opt out.

So at first They were just taking the knee and then some of them raised their

fist and then old mate just stood there.

And so then it was a direction and that might be just for

synergy or optics, not sure.

But why, why with, I don't know, it just seems like kind

of he threw a bit of a tantrum.

Can't he just ring his coach like he would for anything else and say,

you know, you told me to hit the bat that way, I'm not going to do it

that way, I'd rather do it this way.

Hmm.

Right, dear listener, now I've intentionally left out

some salient facts here.

So you've all got your little opinions, uh, out there about what this, you've

sort of got gut feelings, haven't you?

So here's the next bit from his full statement.

For those who don't know, I come from a mixed race family.

My half sisters are coloured and my step mum is black.

I feel like my rights were taken away when I was told.

What we had to do in the way that we were told the rights and equality of all people

is more important than any Individual.

I was raised to understand that we all have rights and they are important

So, so what do you think of that?

Does it change your view knowing that he comes from a mixed race family?

His half sisters are colored and his step mom is black.

No, I still think I still think if he had an objection He could have

consulted his people Which he did after the fact and now he's all good.

I think Telling your team that they have to make a public political

statement is compelled speech.

And I think he was perfectly right to walk away and say no.

I, well, because you already had that opinion.

For people who didn't think that before.

Who were thinking the opposite.

Has it now swung you across?

I ask.

Ross says no.

But anyway, I, as I was reading it, I thought, oh, it's an

interesting little, paints a slightly different picture of the guy to me.

Well, I, I think.

I was already on his side, but yeah.

I think you can, you can agree with somebody politically, but disagree

with the way they express it.

So, you know, Extinction Rebellion, I'm very much of the opinion that we need

to do something about climate change, but I don't agree that gluing yourself

to the pavement in the middle of the city is necessarily the way to do it.

And you know, we've just had the case in recent times of Israel

Folau, which is a Sprouting his opinions about non sports stuff.

And a lot of us thought, just shut up, we don't want to hear it.

You're there to play sport.

So if you take the view that you wanted Folau to shut up and not

subject us to his opinion on sports.

religion on a philosophical matter.

I would have thought you'd have some sympathy for a player wanting to shut up.

Yeah.

And another player says, I want to shut up and you're making me make a statement.

That's essentially what's happening is he's saying, I

don't want to make a statement.

Hasn't he like, A, cancelled himself and then B, Made a big hoo ha about it.

No, no.

Well, ignoring that, ignoring that.

He doesn't seem, he doesn't seem very silent at all.

Well, he had a problem where the team told him, this is what you've got to do.

You've got to make, it's like you could, one way of looking at it is the

actual, the ARU saying to people, you've got to make a statement and somebody

goes, I don't want to make a statement.

And they've been, been told to.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So, so anyway, I thought that was an interesting one and

I just think we should keep.

Honestly, our sporting heroes are in no way qualified to talk about anything

other than how to pass a football and kick and run and most of the time they've

got no idea what they're doing anyway.

Well, I think this guy is possibly in a good position to talk about racism.

Having grown up in a mixed race family, he's probably seen it more than others.

I don't know.

I think it seems to be more about the politics, the optics.

Than actually caring, you know, Oh, if we take the knee, that's all we have to do.

We don't need to worry about it.

We're going to get the feeling that he might actually be

doing something about it.

And he's saying, I don't want to join in, in your public show.

Yes.

Your virtue signal.

Yes.

Anyway, that was interesting.

How are we going for time?

8.

51.

Do you know much about Critical Race Theory?

No.

Right.

It's a very difficult topic.

It's a very tricky concept to get around your head.

Uh, my, sorry.

Isn't it being made to be tricky?

My understanding is It's saying that things aren't black and white, no pun

intended, and that we need to look at multiple levels of discrimination.

And some people are taking it possibly too far, as is quite often the case.

And people on the other side are taking the crazies on one side.

And using that to paint the whole thing.

It's quite big in the Christian movement is keen.

This whole Alan Tudge thing is serious.

There's going to be a lot of talk about critical race theory in the times ahead

because it's becoming big in America.

And, and these nutbags here in the Liberal Party and the LNP watching podcasts

coming out of America and wanting to adopt whatever the latest is out of there, so.

So I was listening to a podcast called Opening Arguments,

you ever listen to that one?

I know of it, I've never listened to it.

So I thought I'd try and give you just a little bit of a two

minute gist or gist on that one?

So, Critical Race Theory.

It seems to me, well it did, it started as out, well it originates from a

thing called Critical Legal Studies.

So, that's where it all comes from, and critical race theory evolved

out of critical legal studies.

And essentially, critical legal studies was saying, look all you

lawyers, you've got these rules that you are applying to these situations.

If this, then that.

If elements A, B, and C, then result X, Y, Z.

You've got these rules that you are interpreting and applying.

What you need to do is put that in the context of, where the

hell did those rules come from?

And where did they derive out of, and is that, and just bear that in mind.

So, for example, there's the sort of Lockean view that in order to be

entitled to claim land, you had to have done something with the land.

Put structures on it, grazed cattle, erected fences, done stuff.

Cleared trees.

Yeah.

And if you did that, then as a settler, you acquired ownership

through transforming the land.

And that was a European Lockean view of, of, of property rights.

And so in the legal system, there's a lot of law that's

kind of based on that concept.

And what they were saying in critical legal studies was.

Just step back from the, the elements that you are trying to observe and

just ask yourself, where did those elements come from in the first place?

Sort of traditional native ownership didn't require those sorts of things

because they were nomadic and they weren't, you know, doing those sorts

of things and they had a different understanding of ownership of land.

And it wasn't necessarily saying that's one's better than the other or whatever,

but as a critical thinker, when you are applying these rules, think to yourself,

This is an adoption of a Western mode of thinking that we're applying here.

There are other modes of thinking that we're not applying, and sort

of, that's a critical legal study.

It's more complicated than that.

I've probably bastardised it, but that's a good example.

And then, uh, Critical Race Theory, which I would explain by this example

he gave, was Where domestic violence, they found that there was a reluctance

by women to force the issue of having menfolk charged with domestic violence.

And there was a hesitation because they were kind of intimidated.

So they brought in this law, which was if there was a complaint, then

the police had to make an arrest in order to kickstart something,

whether the woman wanted it or not.

So that.

Things would get done.

The problem was that they started where there was a fight between a man and a

woman, particularly a black, the police would observe the woman as being equally

as combative as the man and would arrest.

Also, men in Hispanic families might be arrested and charged, and

that could then lead to them being deported, sent back to Mexico, which

was having a devastating effect.

So, a law which was, on the face of it, race neutral.

had an effect on a particular races more than other ones.

So that was sort of part of critical race theory.

So it's what you were saying, Joe, is that when you are applying a law, you

have to understand that on the face of it, it may be race neutral, but because

of a whole range of other dynamics.

Often associated with different racial groups, a different, quite unfair

and unhelpful result could happen.

Because these people who constructed the laws were sort of white, comfortable

middle class and were applying, okay, white woman being harassed

by white husband, I'll introduce this law because, and, and without

contemplating the effects that that might have in a Hispanic or black.

So that was sort of critical race theory.

So, so it's really about being capable of thinking outside the paradigm

that you're in and considering other paradigms that might apply and, and

taking a nuanced view and understanding different sort of interplay of factors.

So there you go, dear listener, when you're reading the Murdoch

press and people like Kevin Donnelly and others start talking about.

The terrible introduction of critical race theory and stuff

like that into Australian studies.

Now, now people can take that tour.

Were you gonna say I I was about to say that the, the complaints that I'd heard

were, and I, I dunno how true they're, but, uh, of teenage boys being told to

apologize for their whiteness in class.

Mm.

Yeah.

And that has been labeled as being critical race theory.

Mm.

So it's probably a misapplication of a term to something that

isn't what it's supposed to be.

Correct.

Yeah.

It's a sort of a straw manning of.

of But certainly if that is going on, that is not a healthy thing.

Correct.

But, but actual critical race theory and critical legal studies is

actually just being clever and, and thoughtful about other possibilities

and other ways of thinking.

So it's not as evil as it sounds.

Certainly if people want to take it to an extreme.

and bastardise it and fashion it into something else, then that's not good.

But just on its own, the idea of critical legal studies and critical

race theory isn't such a bad idea.

Tom says, As a student of jurisprudence who majored in legal theory, I think

standpoint theory is the best one because it incorporates all of them.

It has no subjective view behind it.

And my problem is not so much in the law where law is subjective, but more

when that mindset gets applied in things like the sciences, where, well,

this is the Western view of science.

We're doing science this way because it's the Western and we have

alternate ways of knowing things.

And where indigenous knowledge Smoke ceremonies.

Ish.

Well, indigenous knowledge is just accepted as equivalent to, rather than

being taken as, this is the basis, let's explore this, let's find out

whether it's accurate, people just go, Oh, no, no, we accept it because it's,

it's equivalent to Western science.

Yes.

No, it isn't.

Because science isn't Western, science is human.

So.

Anyway, that'll be a topic that we'll talk about down the track, I'm sure.

But just because it's critical race theory doesn't mean of itself it's a bad thing.

If it's taken to an extreme, maybe it is.

And also, people talk about cultural Marxism as well as part of all this.

And that'll be another topic, but Essentially, Critical Race Theory is not

Marxist in any way, so people behind it were actually anti Marxist, and Critical

Race Theory is post modern in that, oh, there are various ways of looking at

things, and not wanting to be judgmental as to which is the best is a sort of

a post modernist view, whereas Marx had an idea of which was best, and his

ideas, so Yeah, I mean, but Marxism was about reversing the power structures.

And a lot of these ideas that the Right are fighting against are about ostensibly

equalising the power structures, tearing down the current power structures

and making them more egalitarian.

That the Right are fighting against Yes.

Yes.

But the allegation is that it's actually an inversion of the power structure.

Yes.

Yes.

So anyway, it's just, I'm just seeing these references in different essays

and articles and so a little, a little sort of starter on critical race theory

and we'll get into that another time.

Have you ever heard, cause the way the guy from the Australian remarked

back to Matt Keane when he said, you know, you're like old fashioned,

you need to get out of the way.

Of renewables.

I'll make from the Australian said, well, that's a very Marxist comment.

That's a classic.

Yes.

And that's what you're talking about, right?

It's the way that they're just throwing it in here and throwing it in there.

Yeah.

Cause everyone hates Marx.

That's a very communist way of looking at it.

Socialist.

I was going to say in America, it would be socialist.

Yeah.

Yes.

Oh yes, it's everywhere.

Alright dear listener, we've made it to 9.

03.

Shay has been spared from the Shark Tank.

Good to have you.

Look, uh, I've made my notes on my book review.

I didn't get around to it.

I could make all sorts of excuses, but you know, I just wasn't feeling

it, but hopefully I will this week.

So anyway.

Good riddance, Alan Jones, by the way, Tom.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay.

That's enough topics.

All right.

Thanks for tuning in.

Thanks in the chat room.

You had lots of things to say there and we will maybe be back

next week, maybe the week after.

Not sure.

Talk to you later.

Bye for now.

Bye.

That's a good note from him.