1 00:00:01,530 --> 00:00:01,860 Mike. 2 00:00:02,340 --> 00:00:02,730 Hello. 3 00:00:02,940 --> 00:00:03,630 Who are you? 4 00:00:03,630 --> 00:00:04,980 I know your first name, but that's it. 5 00:00:05,220 --> 00:00:06,810 Who are you and where are you from? 6 00:00:07,650 --> 00:00:08,790 I'm Mike Butcher. 7 00:00:08,790 --> 00:00:11,400 I'm editor at large for TechCrunch. 8 00:00:11,460 --> 00:00:14,580 Uh, TechCrunch has about, uh, 15 to 20 million readers a month. 9 00:00:14,820 --> 00:00:15,870 Oh, just 15 to 20? 10 00:00:15,990 --> 00:00:16,740 Yeah, just a few. 11 00:00:16,745 --> 00:00:17,090 It's a few. 12 00:00:17,090 --> 00:00:17,730 You know, a couple. 13 00:00:17,730 --> 00:00:18,930 We're just a few friends really. 14 00:00:19,020 --> 00:00:20,010 Uh, we've been going since. 15 00:00:20,040 --> 00:00:21,240 2005. 16 00:00:21,300 --> 00:00:27,150 And, uh, I've been running around Europe for, for a few years with TechCrunch, uh, covering startups, and that's what I do. 17 00:00:27,360 --> 00:00:29,400 What does it mean when someone says Editor enlarge? 18 00:00:29,400 --> 00:00:32,489 Is there someone in, in small, uh, there's not an editor at Small. 19 00:00:32,489 --> 00:00:32,759 No. 20 00:00:32,765 --> 00:00:41,040 There's, um, editor Enlarge was a phrase coined in his 1960s, I think, to describe a journalist who's hardly ever in the office. 21 00:00:41,099 --> 00:00:43,800 And that's kinda what, that's kinda what me, what I do. 22 00:00:43,860 --> 00:00:44,370 Very good. 23 00:00:44,375 --> 00:00:46,230 And, uh, what are you doing here at Viva Tech? 24 00:00:46,500 --> 00:00:47,910 Viva Tech is one of these. 25 00:00:47,955 --> 00:00:50,025 Seminal events, uh, of Europe. 26 00:00:50,025 --> 00:00:56,714 It's obviously bringing together, you know, the, the largely the French tech scene, which has been growing for many years. 27 00:00:57,015 --> 00:00:59,925 And as an outside observer based in London for Tech Crunch. 28 00:01:00,224 --> 00:01:06,645 Um, I've seen the French ecosystem really just blossom probably, I think would say in the last, uh, five to 10 years. 29 00:01:06,899 --> 00:01:08,759 Is that due to changes in law and things? 30 00:01:08,759 --> 00:01:12,390 Cuz I know Macron's been trying, they, they, they, you know, French law is a bit like German law. 31 00:01:12,390 --> 00:01:15,300 It's not very company friendly or entrepreneurial friendly maybe. 32 00:01:15,630 --> 00:01:20,100 Um, that's, there's a, there's an, there's sort of overstatement and an understatement about it. 33 00:01:20,190 --> 00:01:25,140 Uh, they're actually very friendly now for startups, uh, compared to what they used to be. 34 00:01:25,530 --> 00:01:34,320 Uh, I would say as an outsider observer, as an objective observer, the UK is still really the simplest jurisdiction to launch and start a company. 35 00:01:34,440 --> 00:01:37,500 You can start a company in an hour, in an hour online. 36 00:01:37,560 --> 00:01:40,500 Similar in, say for instance in Estonia Prince as well. 37 00:01:40,505 --> 00:01:43,080 Do they kind of have any IIS equivalent or anything like that? 38 00:01:43,410 --> 00:01:45,300 Um, I think they're getting there. 39 00:01:45,300 --> 00:01:50,700 They don't quite have that kind of, uh, you know, incentives for as much for Angels. 40 00:01:50,700 --> 00:01:54,270 A lot of the, the money in France is institutional and. 41 00:01:54,330 --> 00:02:00,509 Some of it's government tied, there's still quite a lot of legacy, uh, you know, fluff shall we say in this system. 42 00:02:00,810 --> 00:02:12,000 But they're getting there and, and I think with Brexits happening and the, the French eyeing and the Germans and the Spanish eyeing the startup ecosystem, they think, you know, it's. 43 00:02:12,005 --> 00:02:14,165 Everything to play for, and they can, they can go for it. 44 00:02:14,855 --> 00:02:22,595 Is, uh, do you think a healthy competition between Paris and London, you know, for, with, you know, even Viva Tech and London Tech Week are at the same time now? 45 00:02:23,195 --> 00:02:29,915 I think they're really very different events and, you know, London Tech Week is really more like an enwood investment conference. 46 00:02:29,945 --> 00:02:35,795 Um, it's, it's not particularly the big showcase that Viva Tech is. 47 00:02:35,975 --> 00:02:38,165 Viva Tech is a very, very large event. 48 00:02:38,195 --> 00:02:39,935 Thousands and thousands of people. 49 00:02:39,935 --> 00:02:44,255 One big venue and also and a big public open day, by the way. 50 00:02:44,260 --> 00:02:53,135 So the, the public are open to right wander around Viva Tech and see all the robots and the flying cars as well, which is really, I think, a, a really great idea. 51 00:02:53,285 --> 00:02:59,855 A slightly controversial question, but it seems like, you know, there's definite teamwork needed between London and Paris and Europe and America and South 52 00:02:59,855 --> 00:03:07,024 Korea and Japan and sound, these treaty, you know, are we getting to a stage that, you know, there's almost a technological Cold War, China and Russia and us. 53 00:03:07,024 --> 00:03:11,035 Then we have to collaborate, you know, or, or is that how you see the world? 54 00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:12,054 Or are you more optimistic? 55 00:03:12,054 --> 00:03:18,204 It's not just a technical, uh, cold war, it's an actual hot war between Russia and the West at this point. 56 00:03:18,445 --> 00:03:20,364 So there's a hot war aspect to this. 57 00:03:20,454 --> 00:03:24,144 So you are seeing the sort of depolarization of the globe. 58 00:03:24,535 --> 00:03:27,114 You are, you are, you are seeing, uh, you the United States. 59 00:03:27,140 --> 00:03:29,600 And Europe really forming an alliance. 60 00:03:29,839 --> 00:03:33,140 And then you've got China and Russia sort of ganging up to some extent. 61 00:03:33,230 --> 00:03:35,869 Really, Russia is a client state, shall we say. 62 00:03:35,869 --> 00:03:35,929 Yeah. 63 00:03:35,934 --> 00:03:37,880 More more diplomatic language Yeah. 64 00:03:37,970 --> 00:03:39,380 Of uh, of China. 65 00:03:39,410 --> 00:03:39,640 Right, right, right. 66 00:03:39,679 --> 00:03:49,760 But the jurisdiction of the EU is really what's driving a lot of things right now because the AI laws are coming through the, through the commission at this point and the parliament. 67 00:03:50,149 --> 00:03:56,329 And so how AI is going to be regulated going forward is, you know, really Europe is going to be. 68 00:03:56,375 --> 00:04:00,545 Setting the benchmarks and the UK is going to be falling in line. 69 00:04:00,845 --> 00:04:03,635 I mean, that's what I, my sources are telling me at this point. 70 00:04:03,695 --> 00:04:05,555 Do you find regulation helpful? 71 00:04:05,560 --> 00:04:12,485 I mean, take gdpr, it's a lovely concept, but in reality it, it, you know, these purposes, if not really, you know, you're just pressing accept to like, I, yeah. 72 00:04:12,485 --> 00:04:12,486 I. 73 00:04:12,830 --> 00:04:13,160 Concur. 74 00:04:13,160 --> 00:04:18,290 They, the problem with GDPR is it favored large companies who could employ lots of lawyers. 75 00:04:18,529 --> 00:04:23,030 I think there's a piece of work to be done, uh, to just get those guys on board. 76 00:04:23,030 --> 00:04:30,020 The idea that if you are a company of size of say, 15 or less or whatever, you should be subject to those laws. 77 00:04:30,020 --> 00:04:33,800 You should be, uh, you know, you should be allowed to innovate up to a certain point. 78 00:04:34,160 --> 00:04:36,770 Perhaps they would listen at some, I'm, they're open. 79 00:04:36,950 --> 00:04:38,180 They're open to those voices. 80 00:04:38,180 --> 00:04:41,810 It's just a little, you know, but you've gotta remember, obviously the biggest lobbyists. 81 00:04:41,825 --> 00:04:42,965 Voice is a big tech. 82 00:04:42,995 --> 00:04:43,354 Yeah. 83 00:04:43,385 --> 00:04:45,034 And they like to build these walls. 84 00:04:45,034 --> 00:04:54,395 So, you know, the, the reason why Facebook met, uh, you know, uh, Google, et cetera, employee lobbyists, is because they want to build regulatory walls around their, their business models. 85 00:04:55,025 --> 00:04:57,784 And Mike, what are you hoping to get out of the next couple of days? 86 00:04:58,145 --> 00:05:03,245 Um, obviously I'm here to meet, uh, tech companies, make lots of contacts for the future. 87 00:05:03,544 --> 00:05:05,615 One or two stories might come outta this trip. 88 00:05:05,675 --> 00:05:08,974 Of course, TechCrunch is also running its own event. 89 00:05:09,015 --> 00:05:15,375 Tomorrow evening, uh, where we'll get the grades and the good and the, the events venture capitalists and the, uh, the startups involved. 90 00:05:15,825 --> 00:05:26,414 I mean, you know, we are very much about our readership is, is passionate about startups, passionate about innovation, and that's what we are here to do. 91 00:05:26,414 --> 00:05:27,794 We've been doing it for over. 92 00:05:28,500 --> 00:05:32,219 16, 17 years at this point, um, we've stuck to our knitting. 93 00:05:32,219 --> 00:05:36,810 We've stuck to our game and and everybody wants to know what happens next. 94 00:05:36,810 --> 00:05:39,240 What are the, sorry, what are the best implications? 95 00:05:39,690 --> 00:05:41,669 And um, and that's what we do. 96 00:05:41,669 --> 00:05:43,169 We've got a great team in Europe. 97 00:05:43,175 --> 00:05:47,580 My colleagues are astoundingly amazing, uh, privilege to work with 'em every day. 98 00:05:47,969 --> 00:05:48,690 But the US. 99 00:05:48,984 --> 00:05:55,164 Is still our mother load Silicon Valley and the us, our US readership is, is extremely important. 100 00:05:55,164 --> 00:05:57,744 And that, and, and then of course our European readership as well. 101 00:05:58,465 --> 00:06:01,885 And what would you, uh, tell someone if they wanted to come and do business in London? 102 00:06:01,885 --> 00:06:04,494 Would you give them any, uh, tips of dos and don'ts? 103 00:06:04,554 --> 00:06:06,835 Is there a territory you particularly, uh uh, no. 104 00:06:06,835 --> 00:06:07,135 Best. 105 00:06:07,800 --> 00:06:08,430 Internationally. 106 00:06:08,430 --> 00:06:10,740 Um, I'm, uh, obviously I'm a journalist with TechCrunch. 107 00:06:10,740 --> 00:06:17,130 I also run the Europa Awards, which is, which I lovingly like to call the, the Eurovision Song Contest of Europe. 108 00:06:17,190 --> 00:06:17,700 Oh, love it. 109 00:06:17,705 --> 00:06:22,110 For startups, um, which we run in November, are the costumes as impressive. 110 00:06:22,169 --> 00:06:23,784 Uh, Almost as impressive. 111 00:06:23,784 --> 00:06:24,474 Not quite. 112 00:06:24,474 --> 00:06:27,145 We've, we've gotta little get a little bit more glitter going on. 113 00:06:27,445 --> 00:06:35,185 Uh, but no, it's, you know, it's, my idea was always to enliven the European scene and get, you know, startups out there. 114 00:06:35,215 --> 00:06:40,164 And, uh, I've been doing it for 15 years and, uh, I, I'm probably be carry on doing it for a long time. 115 00:06:40,184 --> 00:06:42,205 Who are you most excited to meet on this trip? 116 00:06:42,414 --> 00:06:48,085 Think, well, what everybody's talking about is what will Elon Musk will say, oh, he's coming as tech. 117 00:06:48,344 --> 00:06:48,565 Yes. 118 00:06:48,565 --> 00:06:53,600 And, uh, uh, nobody really knows it's going to be, the ball is going to be up in the air. 119 00:06:53,690 --> 00:06:55,760 Do we not think it'll be a little bit crazy town? 120 00:06:55,820 --> 00:07:03,890 It, well, I think, uh, we, it's fair to say that whatever Elon says at this point is a little bit, uh, off the wall, shall we say. 121 00:07:04,250 --> 00:07:05,720 Putting it diplomatically? 122 00:07:05,960 --> 00:07:06,020 Yeah. 123 00:07:06,025 --> 00:07:07,660 Do you think he's slightly lost the plot a little bit? 124 00:07:07,665 --> 00:07:09,050 Well, he's just appointed in these. 125 00:07:09,050 --> 00:07:09,900 CEO of Twitter. 126 00:07:10,260 --> 00:07:13,530 So to some extent he's parked a lot of those problems. 127 00:07:13,770 --> 00:07:20,700 A lot of people at SpaceX will be relieved that he will be back in, back in the fold, uh, paying attention to what's going on. 128 00:07:20,760 --> 00:07:21,599 And Tesla. 129 00:07:21,659 --> 00:07:22,650 And Tesla, by the way. 130 00:07:23,099 --> 00:07:24,450 So we'll see what he says. 131 00:07:24,450 --> 00:07:26,640 Uh, there's not a lot of previews going on. 132 00:07:26,645 --> 00:07:29,371 Do you get to meet him where you, do you think you'll get an opportunity to talk to him? 133 00:07:29,700 --> 00:07:34,770 I think, uh, it'll be a little bit like, uh, trying to, you know, break through the pretorian guard to meet Caesar. 134 00:07:34,770 --> 00:07:35,289 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 135 00:07:35,309 --> 00:07:38,605 Um, I think at this point, He just needs to know how funny you are. 136 00:07:38,635 --> 00:07:40,765 You know, I hear he's got a crack his sense of humor. 137 00:07:40,765 --> 00:07:52,525 You know, he's, uh, I think actually I, I met Elon uh, many years ago when he, uh, was visiting London and he actually, he was struck me as more like an academic, actually had an academic bent to him. 138 00:07:52,825 --> 00:08:03,805 And he has this sort of, he's a very intelligent guy, but that there is a slight problem about the kinds of the way he likes to shape conversations in a public environment, uh, shall we say. 139 00:08:03,805 --> 00:08:04,795 And, uh, and that's. 140 00:08:04,965 --> 00:08:15,765 That's been to some extent, what happens is when you get to that elevated level, you do really want to sort of say anything you like really, you feel you are kind of untouchable. 141 00:08:15,765 --> 00:08:27,795 I think to go back to the Roman comparison you had, you got, you know, in a triumph, you had a slave standing next to you telling you that everyone was mortal and everybody's gonna die, and that you are not that great, and maybe that's what those guys need. 142 00:08:27,855 --> 00:08:28,845 At some point they need. 143 00:08:28,865 --> 00:08:30,845 Somebody telling truth to power. 144 00:08:30,845 --> 00:08:31,055 Right. 145 00:08:31,055 --> 00:08:33,215 You do need a yago whispering in your ear. 146 00:08:33,215 --> 00:08:33,305 Yes. 147 00:08:33,605 --> 00:08:42,885 And famously Caesar, as he did a triumph through Rome, he would have somebody as he was on the gladiator kind of on the, on the chariot chariot. 148 00:08:42,995 --> 00:08:47,105 And, and the idea was you had somebody whispering in your ear saying, you are not a God. 149 00:08:47,195 --> 00:08:47,435 Yeah. 150 00:08:47,825 --> 00:08:52,260 And there is a, Point at which some of these billionaires, these tech billionaires need that. 151 00:08:52,260 --> 00:08:52,500 Really? 152 00:08:52,500 --> 00:08:52,560 Yeah. 153 00:08:53,010 --> 00:08:55,350 And the jury's out on whether or not they actually have that. 154 00:08:55,440 --> 00:08:55,770 Yeah. 155 00:08:55,890 --> 00:08:59,220 Uh, and what do you think of London and Partners have you've been involved with them before? 156 00:08:59,220 --> 00:09:01,110 Um, you, you're good friends with Andrew Tibbits. 157 00:09:01,110 --> 00:09:10,860 I here, um, Andrew and I had known each other for many years, actually, uh, worked with me on the Tech Hub, which was the first technology oriented. 158 00:09:10,865 --> 00:09:14,855 Startup Co-working space in short Itch back in uh, 2011. 159 00:09:14,855 --> 00:09:15,995 20 10, 20 11. 160 00:09:16,115 --> 00:09:18,125 Have you been involved in London and Partners, though? 161 00:09:18,125 --> 00:09:25,865 Is this your first experience of them, or, and, uh, well, London Partners, uh, does an excellent job, uh, talking about London as a place to do business. 162 00:09:26,195 --> 00:09:33,275 Uh, it's one of those kinds of agencies that, you know, just has to do that job and, uh, they do a doing a great job. 163 00:09:33,275 --> 00:09:33,995 Yeah, absolutely. 164 00:09:33,995 --> 00:09:36,125 I'm not, not a, uh, not a critic at all. 165 00:09:36,455 --> 00:09:39,395 Finally, where are you gonna be in 10 years and can we come? 166 00:09:40,175 --> 00:09:40,835 Where am I gonna be in. 167 00:09:40,865 --> 00:09:41,675 10 years? 168 00:09:41,705 --> 00:09:45,215 Well, I think, uh, hopefully doing a similar kind of thing. 169 00:09:45,245 --> 00:09:46,715 I'm a journalist at heart. 170 00:09:46,745 --> 00:09:47,945 I like being in the media. 171 00:09:48,335 --> 00:09:50,645 Um, I'm sure you guys like doing what you do. 172 00:09:50,645 --> 00:09:51,905 I like what you're doing what I do. 173 00:09:52,295 --> 00:10:02,165 Noel Gallagher from Oasis once said, uh, that, uh, he got that guitar thing, dinner, the backing guitar down, uh, doing a bit of lead guitar here and there. 174 00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:05,210 And, uh, he, he was ready to do that for the rest of his life. 175 00:10:05,210 --> 00:10:07,340 And I'm ready to do this for the rest of my life as well. 176 00:10:07,340 --> 00:10:10,100 So I love the fact that you just quoted Algar. 177 00:10:10,220 --> 00:10:11,870 I mean, how often does that happen? 178 00:10:12,380 --> 00:10:13,790 We're gonna play business or bullshit. 179 00:10:13,790 --> 00:10:14,660 It's, oh shit. 180 00:10:14,690 --> 00:10:14,930 Okay. 181 00:10:15,110 --> 00:10:15,680 We didn't play. 182 00:10:16,310 --> 00:10:16,880 Can I do in the middle? 183 00:10:16,910 --> 00:10:17,090 Yeah. 184 00:10:17,090 --> 00:10:17,240 Yeah. 185 00:10:17,240 --> 00:10:17,900 Put it in the middle. 186 00:10:17,930 --> 00:10:20,270 Now we're just gonna ask something y to say with it's business or bullshit. 187 00:10:20,275 --> 00:10:21,650 You may briefly elaborate if you want. 188 00:10:21,650 --> 00:10:24,830 Cause you want the, do I say we say something and you. 189 00:10:24,830 --> 00:10:27,380 Say whether it is business or bullshit or bullshit. 190 00:10:27,830 --> 00:10:28,010 Okay. 191 00:10:28,010 --> 00:10:28,130 Ready? 192 00:10:28,170 --> 00:10:28,730 Very simple. 193 00:10:28,730 --> 00:10:28,970 Ready? 194 00:10:28,970 --> 00:10:29,720 We're gonna start with pip. 195 00:10:29,720 --> 00:10:30,710 We're gonna go round like that. 196 00:10:30,890 --> 00:10:32,600 LinkedIn bullshit. 197 00:10:33,920 --> 00:10:37,130 Uh, universal basic income business. 198 00:10:37,490 --> 00:10:38,960 Very good on there. 199 00:10:40,220 --> 00:10:40,760 Business. 200 00:10:40,760 --> 00:10:41,360 Do you speak French? 201 00:10:41,365 --> 00:10:41,960 Always. 202 00:10:42,290 --> 00:10:43,070 Do you speak French? 203 00:10:43,370 --> 00:10:43,670 No. 204 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:46,730 Office nap pods. 205 00:10:48,590 --> 00:10:49,910 Uh, I'm office. 206 00:10:49,910 --> 00:10:52,160 I'm really pro this office. 207 00:10:52,160 --> 00:10:54,650 Nap pods, I think definitely business. 208 00:10:54,650 --> 00:10:55,850 Come on, why not? 209 00:10:55,850 --> 00:10:56,900 Don't let people sleep in the office. 210 00:10:56,905 --> 00:10:58,939 Happens above Siesta. 211 00:10:59,000 --> 00:10:59,540 What a good idea. 212 00:10:59,660 --> 00:11:03,410 But also, you know, when you, when you snooze for a bit, you get all your great ideas, right? 213 00:11:03,830 --> 00:11:04,340 A hundred percent. 214 00:11:04,340 --> 00:11:05,660 But when you wake up, they're all there. 215 00:11:05,960 --> 00:11:06,180 Yes. 216 00:11:06,615 --> 00:11:07,935 I think we should have office now buds. 217 00:11:07,935 --> 00:11:10,395 And then obviously if you want to stay late in the office, work late. 218 00:11:10,455 --> 00:11:10,845 Brilliant. 219 00:11:11,295 --> 00:11:13,335 Mandatory office birthday cakes. 220 00:11:13,995 --> 00:11:16,125 Um, absolutely business. 221 00:11:16,125 --> 00:11:21,315 Because who would, who, who, who would stop somebody from having a nice birthday? 222 00:11:21,315 --> 00:11:21,615 Yeah. 223 00:11:21,615 --> 00:11:22,665 To the birthday cake. 224 00:11:22,905 --> 00:11:23,115 Yeah. 225 00:11:23,115 --> 00:11:24,285 That would be a horrible thing. 226 00:11:24,915 --> 00:11:25,215 Very nice. 227 00:11:25,545 --> 00:11:26,265 Oh, next. 228 00:11:26,265 --> 00:11:27,405 Business plans. 229 00:11:27,975 --> 00:11:28,695 Business plans. 230 00:11:28,695 --> 00:11:29,295 Bullshit. 231 00:11:29,295 --> 00:11:30,045 There's no sub. 232 00:11:30,060 --> 00:11:31,589 Set a thing as a business plan. 233 00:11:31,920 --> 00:11:35,339 No plan survives engagement with the enemy, as they say in the military. 234 00:11:35,670 --> 00:11:37,140 There, there's a lot riding on this one. 235 00:11:37,199 --> 00:11:39,540 Office dogs, absolutely. 236 00:11:39,540 --> 00:11:40,079 Business. 237 00:11:40,079 --> 00:11:40,770 A hundred percent. 238 00:11:41,130 --> 00:11:41,250 Oh man. 239 00:11:41,250 --> 00:11:48,510 Very, and I think, I think office dogs, especially, especially post covid, every office needs a, an the office, uh, dog cro. 240 00:11:49,199 --> 00:11:49,439 Yeah. 241 00:11:49,500 --> 00:11:49,800 Very good. 242 00:11:49,885 --> 00:11:51,145 Ballpark figures. 243 00:11:52,555 --> 00:12:00,955 I love ballpark figures as a journalist because it means that I can get much more information out of companies and it's usually a lot more accurate than the other things. 244 00:12:01,135 --> 00:12:01,495 Very good. 245 00:12:01,585 --> 00:12:06,235 Uh, um, team building exercises, goodness me. 246 00:12:06,475 --> 00:12:09,175 Um, team building exercises, I would say. 247 00:12:09,175 --> 00:12:09,955 Have you ever attended one? 248 00:12:10,495 --> 00:12:12,835 Uh, I absolutely attended one. 249 00:12:12,835 --> 00:12:18,535 We had to draw with crayon on a, uh, you know, various kind of whiteboards and things. 250 00:12:18,535 --> 00:12:19,345 Oh Lord, this is, God knows. 251 00:12:19,495 --> 00:12:19,785 Yeah. 252 00:12:19,885 --> 00:12:24,925 Wa and then we went to the pub and had much better ideas than we had during the team building exercise. 253 00:12:24,955 --> 00:12:26,725 I think we all know what your answer is on that one then. 254 00:12:26,725 --> 00:12:27,655 That's how I'd say bullshit. 255 00:12:28,375 --> 00:12:29,875 Uh, diversity, quotas. 256 00:12:30,475 --> 00:12:32,064 Diversity, all controversial. 257 00:12:32,155 --> 00:12:35,425 Um, my mother was born in South Africa, by the way. 258 00:12:35,485 --> 00:12:42,475 I would say not diversity quotas, but diversity, you know, awareness for heaven's sake, business is, is diverse. 259 00:12:42,475 --> 00:12:43,944 The society is diverse. 260 00:12:44,095 --> 00:12:45,985 So let's, let's talk about awareness. 261 00:12:46,025 --> 00:12:46,834 Leonard quote. 262 00:12:46,834 --> 00:12:47,165 Nice. 263 00:12:47,225 --> 00:12:48,064 Like it in-office. 264 00:12:48,064 --> 00:12:49,025 Fitness glasses. 265 00:12:49,745 --> 00:12:51,605 In-office, fitness glasses. 266 00:12:51,694 --> 00:12:55,175 Um, so long as everyone's consenting, that's fine. 267 00:12:55,415 --> 00:12:59,495 I would, and that's, uh, that's not necessarily used, not consenting in office. 268 00:13:00,035 --> 00:13:01,745 It could be euphemism or not. 269 00:13:02,245 --> 00:13:04,805 Br, br, br. 270 00:13:04,865 --> 00:13:05,314 Brs. 271 00:13:05,314 --> 00:13:05,855 Or MBAs? 272 00:13:06,435 --> 00:13:06,725 MBAs. 273 00:13:06,730 --> 00:13:09,334 Um, well, I, as a journalist working for tech. 274 00:13:09,375 --> 00:13:09,885 Crunch. 275 00:13:10,275 --> 00:13:16,185 Um, most of the time I meet entrepreneurs who've never done an MBA and they can be extremely successful. 276 00:13:16,185 --> 00:13:25,095 And in fact, actually a lot of the time the people who are schooled less in, in the kind of business as usual, shall we say, uh, are, make some of the best entrepreneurs. 277 00:13:25,100 --> 00:13:31,965 So I, it's fine if you do an mba, not nothing against it, but it's definitely not a prerequisite for being a successful entrepreneur. 278 00:13:32,115 --> 00:13:32,655 Thank you, Mike. 279 00:13:32,685 --> 00:13:33,795 You've been absolutely brilliant. 280 00:13:33,795 --> 00:13:34,635 Brilliant to meet you. 281 00:13:34,695 --> 00:13:35,145 My pleasure. 282 00:13:35,145 --> 00:13:36,525 Thank you for playing business off Bullshit. 283 00:13:36,555 --> 00:13:37,035 You're welcome. 284 00:13:37,540 --> 00:13:40,600 Business Without Bullshit is brought to you by Ori Clark. 285 00:13:40,690 --> 00:13:44,290 Straight talking financial and legal advice since 1935. 286 00:13:44,740 --> 00:13:47,200 You can find us@oriclark.com.