DR RANJ AUDIO

[00:00:00] Ross: Hi there, and a very warm welcome to season five, episode 52 of Peoples Soup. It's Ross Macintosh here.

[00:00:06] Dr Ranj: when I was growing up, we, we grew up in a fairly traditional household. I will say my parents are both Sikh and very much one of the core tenets of their faith is service to others. And I think I've kind of been brought up in that environment to, always think of the value and importance of helping others, whether I'm doing that through my medical job, um, which is very much a direct approach with people, or whether it's promoting health topics on television, or whether it's doing campaigns with, organizations.

[00:00:36] I do a lot of charity work with organizations to promote health campaigns. I do, um, a lot of work, for instance. As we've just talked about with sleep, it's all to try and make things better for people. And I think that's very much my, goal. My, my, how I get my sense of self worth and satisfaction and reward is, is if I've done something positive for someone.

[00:01:01] Ross: P supers. I've got a treat for you this week.

[00:01:04] A few weeks ago I had a chat with an NHS doctor, who's also a bestselling author, TV doctor BAFTA Award winner and peace supers. He's only been on strictly to it's Dr. Ran Singh. In our chat we talk about how accustomed to his to receiving feedback, His mindset of exploring new opportunities, his creative sidestep into media and writing books, and his role as a sleep and wellness ambassador for Furniture Village.

[00:01:31] we talk about his value of helping others and explore the universal topic of sleep from a variety of angles. Of course, Dr. Ranj also gets to select his song choice and leaves us with a top takeaway. For those of you who are new to PeopleSoup, hi, hola, welcome to the community.

[00:01:58] for those of you who are more [00:02:00] familiar, welcome back. Thanks for joining us again, we are an award winning podcast where we share evidence based behavioral science in a way that's practical, accessible, and fun. Our mission is to unlock workplace potential with expert perspectives from contextual behavioral science.

[00:02:16] Thank you

[00:02:17] Let's just scoot over to the news desk because reviews are in for part 2 of my chat with Dr. Carrie Haywood.

[00:02:23] Claire Stafford from York said, I really like this Ross. Carrie came across as so genuine, and it was so clear to see that she was epitomizing what it was to be human. And, as always, your support, curiosity, and genuine interest was so apparent.

[00:02:40] Well, thank you so much, Claire, a truly dedicated P Super, and to everyone who listened, rated, reviewed, and talked about the episode. If you tell a friend about the podcast, they might listen, and that way we can perhaps reach more people with stuff that could be useful. Each review that's read out on the show will receive a couple of our freshly designed bookmarks.

[00:03:00] Dispatched by my 89 year old dad, Big G, in the Global Distribution Center in the Northeast Powerhouse. What more of an incentive do you need to write a review? The first bookmarks have been dispatched, so Dad is now on the edge of his seat ready to prepare the next batch. Enough excitement for now. Get a brew on and have a listen to my chat with Dr. Ranj Singh.

[00:03:28] Dr. Ranj Singh, welcome to PeopleSoup.

[00:03:31] Dr Ranj: Thank you so much for having me.

[00:03:33] Ross: Well, I'm delighted you're here. And you'd have seen in the pre brief that I have a little research department here. And they found out a bit about you. To be honest, they're not used to having this much material.

[00:03:45] Dr Ranj: I'll take that as a compliment.

[00:03:47] Ross: It absolutely is. So it says here, Dr. Ranj Singh is an NHS doctor, a BAFTA award winning TV presenter, A Sunday Times bestselling author, radio presenter, columnist, and [00:04:00] advocate for the LGBT community. How are we doing so

[00:04:03] Dr Ranj: That's, I mean, that's pretty much most of my CV there, I think. Yeah, that's, I'd say that's fairly, fairly accurate.

[00:04:13] Ross: Great, great. And there's a little bit more. His TV work includes Inside Out, 5 News, This Morning, Pointless Celebrities, Strictly Come Dancing, and I have to declare a bias here, you are a favourite in our house, and The Great British Sewing Bay.

[00:04:30] Dr Ranj: Yeah, I've, I've, I've had a quite a varied and eclectic career, I would say.

[00:04:36] Ross: Blimey, absolutely. And it's still in progress. You're also an author, and let me, I've got some of the titles here. Save Money, Lose Weight, Spend Less, and Reduce Your Waistline with My 28 Day Plan. And I think that's the one, or perhaps there were more that was in the Sunday Times Best Seller list.

[00:04:53] Dr Ranj: Yeah, there was that, that one, that was quite a while back. We did that, um, just. I think it was about 2019. That was, I'm very lucky. That was a Sunday Times bestseller. And then, um, just as we came up with the pandemic, I wrote a, growing up guide for young boys called How to Grow Up and Feel Amazing. And that became a Sunday Times bestseller as well.

[00:05:14] And I'm extremely grateful to everybody who made that happen.

[00:05:18] Ross: Blimey. And there's a collection for kids as well, a three book set with titles are A Superhero Like You, A Superpower Like Mine, and A Superfamily Like Ours. Blimey. And then, as you've already mentioned, How to Grow Up and Feel Amazing, The No Worries Guide for Boys. And I was reading the reviews of that this morning, and it was like tremendous.

[00:05:39] So, congratulations on those books.

[00:05:42] Dr Ranj: Thank you so much. I'm just. One, grateful to have had the chance to do something like that, which I'm really passionate about. And secondly, very, very thankful to people who read them and found them helpful, I hope. Um, and getting nice reviews is always, is always lovely.

[00:05:58] Ross: And it's, it's, it must be [00:06:00] tremendous because I think there was something over 1, 800 reviews I saw on, on Amazon.

[00:06:05] Dr Ranj: Yeah, that was, that's a mind blowing amount. but, um, yeah, I'm extremely grateful to those people for leaving those reviews, because it's nice, I think for me, it's always lovely to get compliments, but for me it's nice to get feedback. To, um, am I, am I barking up the wrong tree here? Or is there something I could do better?

[00:06:26] It's always very, very welcome to get

[00:06:29] Accustomed to receiving feedback

[00:06:29] Ross: Oh, it's nice to hear that, that stance of welcoming feedback, because I think sometimes as human beings, we're a bit resistant or nervous about feedback.

[00:06:39] Dr Ranj: yeah, interesting that I think I think it comes from me and my job as a doctor. We're very used to and very accustomed to getting feedback because that is how we improve. and our, our focus is always to try and be better and try and do a better job. so that culture is very much built into us, I think so.

[00:07:00] And then I, you know, it's. In that role, it's extremely important, but I've sort of taken it out into the rest of my life and said, well, do you know what? I'm always striving to do better if I can. So I welcome positive and negative feedback because sometimes the negative or the critique, as it were, can be more useful.

[00:07:21] Yeah. Yes.

[00:07:28] Ross: inkling of something a bit less positive, then it can stick more in our minds. If, if your mind's anything like mine.

[00:07:35] Dr Ranj: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

[00:07:37] Ross: Beautiful. And you're also a sleep and wellness ambassador for Furniture Village, which is how we became connected and why you're appearing right now on PeopleSleep.

[00:07:47] So, very grateful for them. Now, there's one other thing. My research department is sometimes a little bit sketchy, Dr. Ranch. So, they've heard from a friend of a friend of a friend of a friend of Barbara Broccoli [00:08:00] that you're in talks to be the next James Bond.

[00:08:05] Dr Ranj: That's the first I've heard about that. Ha

[00:08:07] Ross: Oh darn it! I was not sure if you could say anything about it, but

[00:08:11] Dr Ranj: no, I mean, as much as I would love for something like that to happen, I can tell you hand on heart that is definitely not true. Um, there are many, many far more talented people in the running for that role and far more appropriate, but, um, I mean, it would be quite cool, wouldn't it?

[00:08:32] Everyone wants to be James Bond.

[00:08:34] Ross: yeah. We were, we were quite excited here at PeopleSoup to even imagine that. The sort of, the sort of barriers and boundaries it would break. But, you never know, if we put it out there

[00:08:47] Dr Ranj: who knows? Who knows? Maybe one day I'll try and stick it on the old vision board, as it were, the mental vision board, but for now, I can't say it's up there.

[00:08:59] Ross: Darn it. Okay. Well, we've put it out there and you never know, Barbara might be listening.

[00:09:03] Dr Ranj: Yeah, thanks Barbara, sorry to disappoint you if I have.

[00:09:07] Ross: So, Dr. Ranch, thank you for being here. And I'd just like to invite you to share a bit more about your background and your career, how you've got to where you are with these multiple strands of stuff going on for you.

[00:09:20] Maybe just a couple of pivotal moments.

[00:09:23] Dr Ranj: gosh, um, I think I've very much had the mindset of, Taking every opportunity that comes along and trying to make the most of it and then seeing what sticks and if something doesn't stick, then it's probably not meant for you. and I've been very lucky that I've had lots of fantastic opportunities, but I have every time something has come up that excites me, I try to pour as much energy as I can into it because I want to try and make it work.

[00:09:48] So I grew up in Kent, a working class background, didn't really grow up with a huge amount. But knew I wanted to do something. So I was the first doctor in my family. [00:10:00] So, I don't really come from a very academic family. I actually come from a farming family. Um, so for me and well, for my parents, especially education was really, really important.

[00:10:10] So, I kind of threw myself into that and Managed to get myself into medical school and get through that and qualify as a doctor Which was a hugely pivotal moment for me because it was my first I guess Taste of Achieving a goal achieving a dream and that kind of spurred me on because I thought right if I can do that And if I apply myself I can maybe do more

[00:10:35] I was a junior doctor for a while and I was doing it full time.

[00:10:39] And it's quite a grueling job, as many people will know. And it's, you know, it's not got any easier. And then I needed a sort of creative outlet. And that's how I ended up sort of working in the media. Firstly, as a hobby, just to try it out and have a bit of fun. But then I found that actually, if I applied myself, it could become quite productive and I could do something useful with it.

[00:11:01] Creative outlet and sidestep into media

[00:11:01] Dr Ranj: And that's kind of how my Sort of, I suppose, sidestep into do media as well as medicine came about. so that was a big thing for me as well, especially 'cause I hadn't trained in that. and then over the years I've kind of adjusted the balance between the two. So I've done, uh, I've gone part-time in my medical work and I've been able to do more media work, but that has also meant that I've been able to do a lot of very exciting things, for instance.

[00:11:27] Try not to pass up opportunities

[00:11:27] Dr Ranj: Dream shows like Strictly Come Dancing, writing books which, is really massive for me, um, winning a BAFTA which was incredible, um, and still blows my mind but all of these things I'm extremely fortunate to do and grateful to do, um, but it's kind of spurred me on, it's kind of taught me that actually when an opportunity comes along, try not to pass it up because you never know what might happen.

[00:11:53] happen because of it. Because I'd never dreamed of working in television. I wasn't trained to do it and I'd [00:12:00] never dreamed of, you know, getting a BAFTA or writing books. But I thought if the opportunity comes along, I'm going to do my best to see if I can make it work. And if I do, fantastic. And if I don't, then maybe it's just not meant for me.

[00:12:15] Ross: Wow. I really see there's this curiosity from you. There's an exploration, this willingness to, to try new things and to, to carve a new path.

[00:12:26] Motto in life

[00:12:26] Dr Ranj: Yes, absolutely. I, I have a motto in life, which is. Dream big, work hard and be kind. I try to live my existence by those basic fundamental tenets and that basically means trying to make the most of everything and trying to be nice while you're doing it. Um, and I've had some great opportunities because of it.

[00:12:49] One of my, you know, I, you mentioned it earlier. I work as sleep and wellness ambassador for Furniture Village. Furniture Village is a brand that I grew up with. Um, it's very much a family brand. I never thought I would end up working in that space, but I love the fact that they are basically in everyone's home and they are very much a part of people's everyday lives and I get to take my expertise into that space and my experience and knowledge into that space and try and do something helpful with it.

[00:13:17] So that I would never have envisaged at all, ever. But when it came along, I thought, hang on, this is a really great. Oh, I was very curious about it. And I thought this is a really great opportunity to do something different, but to also make it really helpful and positive for people. And I'm really proud of that role.

[00:13:36] I've done it for several years now. And I feel like we're really, really helping everyday people with everyday things. Albeit when you think, oh, but it's a. It's a furniture retailer. I was like, yes, but it's so much more than that. We, we're not just talking about products and items and furniture and things like that.

[00:13:55] We are talking about people's lives and their wellbeing and [00:14:00] using what Furniture Village offers in a way that can make your life a bit better. So I Yeah,

[00:14:05] Ross: So I guess it's the ideal arena to capture adults and to hopefully be of service to them, to support them in their, their well being and their sleep. It's like me, I work with people in organizations. I consider the, the organizational arena A great place to share skills and approaches and insights for adults that they maybe weren't taught at school.

[00:14:30] Sleep is hugely important

[00:14:30] Dr Ranj: exactly. And sleep is the big thing that I started with the Furniture Village. It was, um, We spend a third of our lives sleeping, it's hugely important. But when we're stressed or when we're under pressure or when we got deadlines, it's the first thing we will scrimp on And I think we for that's because we forgotten how important it is and this was an opportunity for me to bring sleep back to the forefront, to Remind people of its importance and also to work with incredible organizations like the Sleep Charity who do wonderful work around sleep for all ages and people who are struggling with it and offer a free helpline for people for support.

[00:15:10] These are really, really important things. so for me, the work we've done around sleep especially has been hugely important because it's got a real world impact and it's my chance to try and offer something positive and helpful in that space.

[00:15:29] Ross: Yeah, and it strikes me that all of the strands of your career, from your work in the NHS to the sleep ambassador to writing books is all to be of service to other people, to support other people in, in wellness, which is quite a mission. And

[00:15:51] Dr Ranj: my family, um, when I was growing up, we, we, we grew up in a fairly traditional household. I will say my parents are both Sikh and very much one of [00:16:00] the core tenets of their faith is service to others. And I think I've kind of been brought up in that environment to, always think of the value and importance of helping others, whether I'm doing that through my medical job, um, which is very much a direct approach with people, or whether it's promoting health topics on television, or whether it's doing campaigns with, organizations.

[00:16:23] I do a lot of charity work with organizations to promote health campaigns. I do, um, a lot of work, for instance. As we've just talked about with sleep, it's all to try and make things better for people. And I think that's very much my, my, goal. My, my, how I get my sense of self worth and satisfaction and reward is, is if I've done something positive for someone.

[00:16:48] Ross: and I get this real sense of energy, enthusiasm and passion from you and I wonder how you manage your energy with all these different, different things going on in your life. How the heck do you, do you manage your own energy and look after yourself?

[00:17:04] Dr Ranj: do you know what? That's a very, very good point. I. Interestingly, when I was doing medicine full time, um, the hours are gruelling, the job is quite full on, it's quite intense, and I work in children's A& E and sometimes intensive care, so it's quite a full on environment to work in. When I was doing that full time, it, it was, was intense and at one point I burned out because of it and what I realized actually that I had to prioritize myself as well as other people otherwise I wasn't going to be much good and so by branching out and doing other bits and pieces, by doing a bit of media work, by doing a bit of writing and other bits and bobs that I do, um, I found that I might be working more hours than I was in totality, but because I, I enjoy things so much more and I'm more productive and useful, it doesn't feel like work anymore.

[00:17:59] So [00:18:00] find the work you love and then it doesn't feel like work. And that's what I've done. So I might do lots and lots of hours. I don't have office hours anymore. I'm usually often working till, you know, midnight, one, two o'clock in the morning. answering emails and silly things like that. But to me, because it doesn't feel like work, it's just become a part of life.

[00:18:22] I love, I love it now. Um, and it was all about adjusting my balance. That's how it was. So I get the energy from, and my passion because I love what I do. And that drives me forward. And then hearing from people who have found it useful, that drives me forward. And even though from the outside, it looks like a, it's a lot, um, from the inside, it doesn't feel that way.

[00:18:49] it's certainly something I'm very privileged and lucky to be able to do. And I hope that I can do for a long time coming yet.

[00:18:58] Ross: Well, amen to that. We're very grateful you're doing it. And how are you at setting boundaries between all your different threads of, of your, of your working life and your passion to. So just, just being range, just

[00:19:13] Dr Ranj: Yeah,

[00:19:14] Recharge batteries - saying yes to everything

[00:19:14] Ross: getting a chance to recharge your batteries.

[00:19:16] Dr Ranj: absolutely. that's something that I think I've learned over time. I used to be a person that would say yes to everything. And I soon learned that actually you can't, you can't, you have to prioritize. if it's not a yes immediately, it might be a, a not yet. And then also being comfortable with saying no, because it's okay to say no, because.

[00:19:39] You have to prioritize your own well being as well as, you know, being of, of use and service to other people. So I've learned to put those boundaries in place and to remember myself as well. which isn't selfish, it's self care I call it. And self care is survival, otherwise if you don't do it, you won't survive for very long.

[00:19:59] And also [00:20:00] prioritizing things that are good for me. So I think, um, for me it's very much movement is a big thing. So I don't like the word exercise because I find it intimidating. So any kind of movement, be that going for a walk, be that going for a gym class, or going for a dance, that to me is really important.

[00:20:20] Sleep has become hugely important because one, I recognise the importance of it, but I also know how it makes me feel when I'm sleeping well. and the third thing is my interaction with other people. for me, I need social connection to feel good. So those three things, especially I think help me be who I need to be.

[00:20:47] and help me recharge, as well as, like you said, setting those sort of boundaries and saying, right, well, this is what I feasibly can do. This is what I can do, but not right now. And this is what I can't do. That's the way my mind kind of works.

[00:21:03] Ross: I love that categorize, categorization of really thinking clearly and taking a moment to pause,

[00:21:09] Dr Ranj: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah,

[00:21:16] Ross: tend to have that say yes to everything. I'm a freelancer, so I have that thing about. Oh God, what if I say no to this thing? Maybe everything will start to dry up and I've got one of those quite catastrophic minds that just ends in utter tragedy in kind of nanoseconds.

[00:21:35] Dr Ranj: That is completely understandable for freelancers, actually, because nothing's guaranteed. And I'm very much, I think, a freelancer now, in a weird way. Um, and there is that pressure to say yes to everything, because you never know when the next job might be. It may not be for a while, so you feel that pressure to say yes, because you don't know if you're going to get something else next.

[00:21:56] And, there's less of that security. But, If [00:22:00] you want to do a good job, I think you've got to find a balance. You've got to find that, yes, I can do this now. Yes, but not right now. And no, I, I feasibly can't do this or this isn't helpful for me.

[00:22:13] Ross: um, that's a really great lesson for us because I love the distinction between yes and yes but not right now. It makes us realize that the other person might be able to flex their agenda to, to fit it in rather than saying no. No. So yeah, it's, it's, it's tricky being a human being sometimes.

[00:22:33] Dr Ranj: yeah, absolutely.

[00:22:35] Ross: Now, at Dr. Ranch, there's a question I ask all my guests about a song choice. And this would be a song choice that announces your arrival in a room, whether it's a virtual room, whether you're nipping to the supermarket, whether you're arriving home, or in your NHS job. And it would play, not forever. So it's not, you're not choosing a song forever, but for the next two to three months.

[00:22:56] I wonder if a tune springs to mind.

[00:22:59] Dr Ranj: Um, well, I'm, I'm a massive musical theatre fan and I'm a massive musical film fan. And one of my all time favourite films, movies and songs from it is, um, This Is Me from The Greatest Showman. It's such a rousing and empowering song. The message behind it is incredible. It's, it's, it's very much a, this is who I am.

[00:23:23] And these are the struggles that have made me strong and take it or leave it, but this is me and I'm going to be the best that I can be. For me, it's very much a war cry. It's kind of, and it's inclusive and it's compassionate, but at the same time, it's powerful. and it's very brave and confident. and it's finding that sort of bravery, courage and confidence.

[00:23:51] in, in spaces or situations where you may not have been like that, or you know, your experiences may have been [00:24:00] horrible and have knocked you down and, traumatized you and battered you, but it's still saying, well, you know, this, this is who I am. And this is what I'm bringing to the table and, and that's fine.

[00:24:12] That's good. In fact, that's brilliant.

[00:24:15] The courage to be ourselves and role modelling

[00:24:15] Ross: I love it. And I love that sense of authenticity from it as well. And that courage to be ourselves. Yeah, it is.

[00:24:24] and speaking to you, being a role model for others. Hmm. Hmm.

[00:24:28] Dr Ranj: I think I used to feel really uncomfortable with the term role model. Because, to me, it felt like there was a pressure to perform. And there was a responsibility to behave a certain way that was acceptable to others. But as I've grown older, I've recognized the value of it. It's not a, it's not being a role model is not a request.

[00:24:55] And I think I used to feel like it was a request. Being a role model is leading by example is but is about showcasing your best qualities. That's what it is. So it's, it's, it's, Permission to be, actually. And then for others to hopefully see that and find inspiration and strength and courage from it.

[00:25:17] And I think that it does, you know, it is about using the platforms and privilege that you have in a way that helps others. And that's exactly who I am. So actually it made me kind of think hang on This is kind of what you've been wanting to do anyway. So, don't think of it as a, as a request or someone trying to ask something of you.

[00:25:45] Think of it as, look, look at what I'm doing. If I can do it, so can you.

[00:25:49] Ross: Nice. I also love the way you present it as None of us are perfect. We're all human beings. And we have, we have flaws and we have [00:26:00] things that didn't go so

[00:26:01] Dr Ranj: Yes.

[00:26:02] Ross: And we're not perfect and that's okay. We can still show up.

[00:26:06] We live in a world of constant comparison

[00:26:06] Dr Ranj: it. Absolutely. We live in a world of comparison, constant comparison. be that in the media, online, in person. there is this constant competition and this feeling like you have to be the best or have to be perfect or have to be a certain way. And I think recognizing your humanity and your freedom.

[00:26:31] And your fallibility and the fact that none of us are perfect no matter what we might see or hear And we're all just trying to do our best That's all that counts. That's all that's important. Um No one has got it completely right nobody has but the important thing is that you're trying

[00:26:53] Ross: Amen. Beautiful, beautiful message. Thank you. And I want to come back to a topic we've touched upon already, but I want to talk about sleep

[00:27:01] Dr Ranj: Hmm yeah

[00:27:02] Ross: because I know it's something that's an issue for lots of our listeners. They, you know, it's an everyday work conversation. You, you talk about, Oh, I woke up at 3am thinking about that work problem and then I couldn't get back to sleep.

[00:27:19] And people would say, Oh, me too. Or, you know, those people who are sending emails that. at strange hours and then other people are applying. It becomes this sort of culture in organizations sometimes. But, but let's, let's maybe start with the scale of the problem. Can you tell us anything about that, the scale of the problem around, around sleep?

[00:27:42] Dr Ranj: Um,

[00:27:42] significant proportion of children and adults will struggle to sleep at some point. Um, and the figures are much higher than you might expect. And, A huge number of us don't recognize the importance of [00:28:00] sleep. We know that it's quite fairly well understood that sleep is a time when we rest and recover.

[00:28:07] But people think it's a time when you switch off. They think it's a time, so therefore they feel like it doesn't require or doesn't warrant priority. But sleep is an active process. Sleep is, like I said, we spend a third of our lives doing it, so it must be important. And we don't switch off in sleep at all, in fact, quite the opposite.

[00:28:30] Sleep is important

[00:28:30] Dr Ranj: Sleep is important for our bodies to repair, to grow, to regulate rhythms and hormones, and such for weight management, for our immune system to function, for Even for our perception of pain to be better. And then it's vitally important for our brains. It's when our brains do their sorting out. It's when our brains take out the rubbish and throw away things we don't need and clear out waste products.

[00:28:58] It's when our brains form memories. It's how we develop our mental resilience and cope with the stresses and strains of everyday life. Sleep is active. It's never passive. It's like going to the gym for your brain. So you're doing that when you're asleep as well as all the other important things that your body is doing so we have to prioritize it.

[00:29:21] The more active you are the more you should prioritise sleep

[00:29:21] Dr Ranj: We have to start thinking about it more the more active your life is The more you're trying to do during the day the more you should be prioritizing your sleep because that's how you prepare That's how you recover and it's how you prepare. So if you've got a high intensity job then it's even more important.

[00:29:44] And I say job, and I mean that in all senses, that if your days are high intensity, it's even more important for you to be prioritizing, trying to get good quality sleep.

[00:29:54] Ross: that framing that we don't treat it with the importance and [00:30:00] the attention it deserves. We maybe just sit at something where we could just collapse into bed at night and set the alarm thinking, oh,

[00:30:09] Dr Ranj: to get up again in however many hours it is, but no developing good sleep habits. And trying to improve the quality of our sleep. It may not necessarily be the quantity. It doesn't mean that you need to sleep more. It just means that you need to sleep better sometimes. And like you said, people who wake up frequently through the night, you know, it could be a case of improving that so you don't do that quite so much.

[00:30:34] And if there is something that's stressing you out, maybe addressing that. is the way to improve your sleep quality, or it could be as simple as changing the environment and the circumstances in which you sleep. And small tweaks can make a really, really big difference. And that's very much something I have emphasized in my work with Furniture Village.

[00:30:54] It's not about big changes, and not necessarily about expensive changes. It can be just the really simple little things. That we may not necessarily think about but can have a massive impact

[00:31:08] Ross: Could, could you talk to us about the, uh, I'm a big fan of small

[00:31:11] Dr Ranj: Yeah, yeah

[00:31:13] Ross: I think that's the, the key to behavior change. And, could you talk to us about some of these small things? Give us some examples to bring it to life for

[00:31:21] Sleep Hygiene

[00:31:21] Dr Ranj: Yeah, whenever we talk about improving sleep everyone thinks I need to sleep more I need to sleep longer. And that's not necessarily the case. We're talking about improving sleep quality. And I talk a lot about something called sleep hygiene. sleep hygiene is a term we use to describe the circumstances in which you sleep.

[00:31:39] So that's everything from your routine at night time, so how you prepare to go to bed, to where you sleep and the environment in which you sleep. so Routines massively important. We are animals. We like patterns. Our brains like patterns. Our bodies function on cycles. We are [00:32:00] patterned organisms. So getting into a routine, especially with your sleep is something your brain will love.

[00:32:06] So that means, you know, going to bed at roughly the same time, waking up roughly the same time, having a routine of wind down before you go to bed to tell your brain and your body that to signal to them that it's coming up to bedtime. Doing things like having a look at the environment that you're sleeping in.

[00:32:23] It needs to be cool. It needs to be calm. It needs to be quiet. It needs to be dim or very dark. And it needs to be comfortable. Those things are all conducive to sleep and that could be a case of blacking out the windows so that less light comes in. It could be a case of, looking at your mattress and thinking that you're sleeping.

[00:32:45] When was the last time I changed it? And is this mattress helping me sleep? Or is it about time? Because mattresses wear out. They do, they become less supportive and that can sometimes contribute to you waking up more or not getting deep enough sleep which is really important.

[00:33:01] The Power Down Hour

[00:33:01] Dr Ranj: And it could be as simple things like how much time are we spending on devices before we go to bed?

[00:33:07] So i'm a huge advocate for the power down hour, which is for at least an hour before you go to sleep Put electronic devices away because they are inherently stimulating mentally And physically because the light from them keeps you awake. It reduces production of sleep chemicals in the brain But scrolling through things like social media, which we're all You guilty of and looking at emails right before you go to sleep is mentally stimulating.

[00:33:34] It ups your stress hormones which are designed to keep you awake. all of those sorts of things, those little things that we can all do are really, really important and actually a lot of people may not think about them quite so much and think, oh, you know, I'll just have a quick scroll through my phone before I go to bed, but that might be the thing that's actually.

[00:33:55] having a negative impact on your sleep quality and

[00:33:58] Ross: hmm,

[00:33:59] Dr Ranj: instance, [00:34:00] bringing back the old alarm clock, the non phone alarm clock, charging your phone outside the room may be all that's required for you to get a better night's

[00:34:11] Ross: that the other day and I couldn't find, I couldn't find my alarm clock, but I'm going to pursue, I'm going to pursue it because I know deep down that my phone is my constant companion.

[00:34:24] Dr Ranj: exactly. Me too. And I'm absolutely guilty of that.

[00:34:28] Ross: and head on the pillow looking at the screen, it's just such an unhelpful

[00:34:34] Dr Ranj: Yeah, people think of it as relaxing. It's actually not. It's, it's stimulating in a weird way. The other thing I, I want to point out, you talked about, you know, people waking up in the middle of the night worrying about something and that could be work related. It could be life related, something going on at home.

[00:34:50] Who knows? The most common thing people do is they ruminate. They will lie there and think about it and hope that sleep will get you and you will fall asleep. It doesn't happen. The best thing to do in that situation, rather than stressing over trying to get back to sleep at that point, thinking, Oh, it's three o'clock in the morning.

[00:35:12] I've got to be up in three hours for work. Get up, do something else for 15 minutes. Take your mind out of that ruminating state and then come back to bed. That is the best thing to do. It's counterintuitive to think that. If you're struggling to sleep, getting up and out of bed is going to help you.

[00:35:31] Actually, it does. It breaks that cycle. So if you are stressing about something in bed, and then you start stressing about thinking, I need to get back to sleep and I'm getting frustrated because I can't sleep because I'm stressing. Get up and do something else. Just do something to take your mind off it, and then come back to bed and try again.

[00:35:50] That's probably the best thing to do in that situation.

[00:35:54] Ross: So we're interrupting that rumination

[00:35:57] Dr Ranj: Exactly. You're stressing about stressing. [00:36:00] So, you need to break that cycle, stop stressing about trying to get to sleep, do something different and then come back and try again.

[00:36:08] Ross: right. I think that's something, I mean it's something that affects all ages. My dad is 88 and the other day he was saying I woke up in the night and it was something about his home support arrangements and he said it always seems much worse in the middle of the night.

[00:36:26] Dr Ranj: Because you're focusing on it as well. You've got less distractions, so your mind is ruminating and constantly focusing in on that problem and it feels bigger. Um. You're probably more active than it might be. And you're probably tired. So you're less likely to be seeing it from the right perspective.

[00:36:42] You're much better off thinking about it when you've got a rested, fresh head than it is in the middle of the night when you're going to be tired, anxious, stressing and focusing on the negatives.

[00:36:56] Ross: Yeah, that, that focusing where we, we do have that negativity bias, but that focusing in, in the small hours is something that just magnifies everything.

[00:37:06] Dr Ranj: Yeah.

[00:37:07] Ross: Any other reflections on sleep that you think might be useful for the, for the listeners? Um, um,

[00:37:12] Dr Ranj: Um.

[00:37:13] Ross: um,

[00:37:13] Dr Ranj: one of the things that I talk a lot about, and I spoke about earlier, is movement, physical activity, exercise, and the benefits that has for sleep. So the thing about, the more active you are during the day physically, whatever movement that might be, you will sleep better in the evenings. And that's because one, your body is tired and wants to rest.

[00:37:36] but to sleep as little exercise and physical activity is lots of other benefits for your brain and body that will. Help it to relax at night. but what you've got to be very careful of, and the temptation is to do activity just before you go to bed. Because, you're thinking, Oh, I've got a moment now, I can maybe do some, Um, exercise or whatever it might be in the evenings and that could [00:38:00] actually be counterproductive because exercise itself is a stimulating activity so what you should do is try and get your high intensity stuff done during the day and if you're going to do any sort of activity in the evenings it should be relaxing so it could be going for a walk it could be as that that in itself isn't quite as, uh, as, as I suppose won't have as much of a negative impact, but doing a gym session at seven, eight o'clock in the evening may not be ideal.

[00:38:27] Sometimes people do that because that's the only time they have, but try to do those earlier in the day and do more relaxing activities in the evening. If physical activity is something that you want to do, and I'd certainly be an advocate for something like that.

[00:38:42] Ross: And you mentioned earlier this, this idea of going to bed at a similar time and getting up at a similar time. Because often I think at the weekends, if we're fortunate enough to have a weekends in our jobs, then we, we can sometimes think, Oh, I'll have a nice lie

[00:38:56] Dr Ranj: yeah.

[00:38:57] yeah.

[00:38:58] Ross: Is that kind of counterproductive,

[00:38:59] would you say?

[00:39:00] Dr Ranj: now and again, actually, a nice lie in is really helpful, I think. And it's nice, and it feels like a bit of a treat, and you're doing something nice for yourself, and allowing yourself to have that permission. Now and again, that's absolutely fine. If you find yourself having to lie in every weekend just to cope, then that's your body trying to tell you something.

[00:39:22] You're not getting enough sleep during the week. And by doing those lines in the weekend, on the weekends frequently, you are messing up your body's clocks because your clock doesn't know what day it is. And it's thinking, Oh gosh, but I'm supposed to be getting used to this. So you're better off trying to add a bit more each day.

[00:39:43] So if, for instance, let's say you're lying in for two hours on a, on a Sunday, why don't you add 30 minutes a night on four nights of the week? Um, and try or maybe adjust and you should, if you're going to adjust your sleep times, you should try and do it in 30 minute intervals because that tends to be a bit [00:40:00] more realistic, but maybe add 30 minutes a night on if you can to your regular sleep during the week.

[00:40:06] And you may feel that you don't need that line at the weekend. And also it won't mess your body clock up as, as much as it would do if you had that big chunk, as it were at the end.

[00:40:17] Ross: Hmm. I like those, that 30 minute interval concept. Great. Now it feels like the conversation has been rammed full of tips and you've been very generous. Is there any final thing you'd leave for the listeners to, to really help them think about their well being as a whole than their sleep?

[00:40:37] Dr Ranj: we are living in a world right now that is full of constant stresses. You know, there's a lot going on in the world around us. There's a lot going on in our lives. There are so many pressures on people right now. Whether that be financially, whether that be home life. Um, it's a, the world is a very stressful place.

[00:40:59] And It's very easy to let that stress overwhelm us and take control. Just simply sometimes sitting down and thinking, what can I do for me to help me cope with the world around me, whatever that might be, sitting down and doing a bit of self care. And not thinking of it as selfish. It's self preservation is what it is.

[00:41:25] You need to care for yourself if you are going to be productive, if you are going to care for other people. Taking a bit of time to do that, and that could be as simple as doing something nice for yourself, or maybe prioritizing your sleep, maybe thinking, well, I'm going to, you know, Do this class that I've really been missing and I haven't, uh, you know, enjoyed this activity and I haven't done it in ages, wherever it might be, do something positive and kind for yourself.

[00:41:53] something that makes you feel good. That's never a wasted activity. It's never a wasted [00:42:00] opportunity. It is something beneficial. It's something healthy and it's something that you will thank yourself for. So whatever that might be today, thank you. Take a moment, take 10 or 15 minutes and think, what do I need right now to help me feel good?

[00:42:17] Ross: Beautiful. Beautiful. Thank you. And it's a message I fully applaud and endorse that sometimes we can lose sight of ourselves in the busyness and the stress.

[00:42:27] Dr Ranj: Yeah.

[00:42:28] Ross: Dr. Ranj, thank you so much for coming on the show. We value you and your generosity and what you've shared, but we value you also very much as a role model, so thanks for all that you do and all that you're going to do in the future.

[00:42:41] We really love what you do.

[00:42:42] Dr Ranj: Thank you so much for having me.

[00:42:44] Ross: That's it, pea soupers, my chat with Dr. Ranj in the bag. I'm so grateful for Ranj joining me on the show. My mum would have truly loved this episode. Please do check out Dr. Ranj's work. He is doing so much to support people, especially folks who are marginalized. Now, PSupers, we need your help. We want to reach more people, so

[00:43:10]

[00:43:10] you enjoyed this episode of the podcast, we'd love you to do three things.

[00:43:14] Ross: Number one, share it with one other person. Number two, subscribe and give us a five star review, whatever platform you're on.

[00:43:22] Number three, share the heck out of it on the socials. This would all help us reach more people and make some noise with stuff that could be useful. We'd love to hear from you and you can get in touch at peoplesoup. pod at gmail. com. On X, formerly known as Twitter, we are at peoplesouppod. on the gram, known as insta, We are at People. Soup and on Facebook we are at PeopleSoupPod. You can also drop us a review or get in touch using a voice note on WhatsApp.

[00:43:50] Thanks to Andy Glenn for his spoon magic and Alex Engelberg for his vocals. Most of all, dear listener, thanks to you. Look after yourselves, peace supers, and bye for now.

[00:43:59] [00:44:00] So, they've heard from a friend of a friend of a friend of a friend of Barbara Broccoli that you're in talks to be the next James Bond.

[00:44:14] Dr Ranj: That's the first I've heard about that. Ha

[00:44:16] Ross: Oh darn it! I was not sure if you could say anything about it, but

[00:44:20] Dr Ranj: no, I mean, as much as I would love for something like that to happen, I can tell you hand on heart that is definitely not true. Um, there are many, many far more talented people in the running for that role and far more appropriate, but, um, I mean, it would be quite cool, wouldn't it?

[00:44:41] Everyone wants to be James Bond.