Welcome to The Talent Trade. I am Stephanie

Maas, your host, partner at ThinkingAhead Executive Search,

and today, I am super excited; incredible guest speaker with

us. What makes him incredible is not just what he has done in the

executive search world, but it's also who he is outside of the

office. In fact, he became our team mascot, Team Labradoodle.

And then when you think of a Labradoodle, certain things come

to mind. Nobody doesn't like a Labradoodle. Everybody loves a

Labradoodle. Nobody has issues. Even if they have dog allergies

or sensitivities, they are still a Okay, meaning, if you've got

personal problems or issues, you're still okay with the

Labradoodle. Everybody loves Derek. Nobody has issues with

him. Consistently producing can be counted on, and has really

elevated our team since he joined us. So Derek Schlender,

take us from here. Thanks so much, Derek for being with us.

Wow, thank you. Stephanie. Team mascot wasn't

something I expected, but you know, sometimes you just get

these little delights in life that you just gotta roll with it

and embrace it. So it's an honor to be here. Thanks for having

me. And I think the last six years, they've been probably the

highlight, just from a professional standpoint for me,

not just the work that we do, but the people that I get to do

it with. But yeah, I focus on SBA recruiting for our banking

team. Run that niche nationally. Personally, my family, we reside

in Athens, Georgia. Go Dogs. Family of five. We have a nine

year old, seven year old and a two year old. So my my world is

beautiful chaos right now.

I love it. So today, what I have asked Derek

to come and talk and speak to is something that, in his niche and

in his world, he has not just revolutionized, but truly

elevated in a way that nobody prior to him has ever done, and

that is the MPC approach to driving business. He came in and

started figuring out that there was this niche that he just

found his way to and really took it and ran with it, and a big

part, a tremendous part, of his tremendous success, it's the MPC

that he's really perfected. So I want to start there and have

Derek really walk us through what made you pursue this MPC

approach to your market. How do you consistently build it such a

high level with an MPC approach? And again, it's not all that you

do, but I know it's the majority, so just kind of give

us some history and then get us into the details, man.

Absolutely. So as I got started in search, a

big conversation between my mentor and myself and just our

team in general, was talking about, hey, what's going on in

the market in terms of what drives it? Is it client driven?

Is it candidate driven? Do we see that swing from year to

year? The thing that really came to light with SBA as a niche is

that it was incredibly candidate driven. And I guess the best way

to think about that from a macro perspective is just simple

supply and demand. My niche in SBA lending tends this way,

largely because there's been a high number of baby boomer

generation bankers who have been retiring. There's just not been

as many Gen X millennial you know, there's just not enough

people getting into banking to outnumber those that have been

retiring. And so over the last 10 to 15 years, that's resulted

in this growing bubble of demand where there's just a lot more

need than there is talent. And so that's resulted in something

for me that's just sustainably been candidate driven. I haven't

really had a lot of client driven moments in my time so

far. You know, there's definitely been clients who have

said, Hey, Derek, you're the recruiter we want to work with

exclusively. You know, there's just some roles that have to go

to search, but the lion's share of what my market needs is the

talent, and it's on a constant basis. And so kind of this

supply and demand idea. You know, with demand so high and

supply so low if you can go bring to your clients what

they're needing, that's kind of what I would define as candidate

driven.

Super helpful. So we figured this out, that

it's candidate driven. Now what?

Yeah, so it's candidate driven. I think what

appealed to me a lot coming to thinking ahead, was that we are

not generalist recruiters, and so you've got a lot of banking

recruiters in the marketplace, a lot of finance recruiters, but

very few of them are truly market masters. Is what I would

say. We kind of call it as a niche expert. And so when I was

starting off, and frankly, anyone who's gotten their start

in search, you don't know. What your niche is, until you really

cut your teeth and you get a sense of, where can I win, where

can I go, add value. And so I just started to pull, what we

call pull the thread in the market. Like you see a thread,

you start to pull it, and what, what comes of that is you start

to get traction. And so where I was getting traction was SBA

lending. What's unique is we were heading into the pandemic

as I was gaining traction. And so what happened is everyone

stopped coming into the office. The Marketplace, basically

overnight, was completely remote. And so while SBA lending

is a national product, a national program, I was thrust

into a market that was even more national by nature of everyone

being remote, it didn't matter where you lived, as long as a

company got hired in your state. And so that just became more and

more of a focus, almost as a product of just circumstances

around the pandemic. That's kind of where it all started for me.

So when you're in this candidate driven world,

and MPC is your primary focus, what are some of the criteria

that, from your perspective, make a candidate extremely

marketable?

That's a great question, and I think that's the

most important question, because when it comes to marketing

talent, why are they marketable? Why are why is there value?

That's an important question. So for me, you know, you've got

kind of multiple candidate types that you are looking for in the

world of finance. You've got people who are, what, you know,

straight up and down, revenue contributors that are directly

tied to the bottom line profitability. You've got people

who are in the background, back office, people, credit

operations. So for me, it's different, depending on what

type of candidate it may be. But to put it simply, if someone's a

revenue contributor, have they produced is number one, have

they produced at a level that is recognized by the marketplace as

impressive, as meaningful, but even more complex than that,

have they produced within the deal box or the buy box of the

clients that I represent, if they have, I've got somebody who

can add value for my clients, for the marketplace that I

serve, if they haven't, there's a disconnect there. And so it's

my job as the market master to say, hey, tell me about

production. Tell me about where you've won. Let me make sure

that I'm connecting the dots in a way that's going to be

meaningful and recognized for the value that you bring. And so

I've got to uncover that with a candidate and understand that

and a deep level. If I'm a generalist who doesn't really

deeply know one niche over another, that's a lot harder. So

if you're somebody who does accounting, recruiting,

commercial, CNI, recruiting, mortgage, recruiting, all of

these things, that's great if you don't have enough depth to

talk shop with somebody and understand what kinds of deals

they actually do and where you could take them, or that would

add value. That'll be harder with credit and operations. I

think a lot of it comes down to efficiency and proficiency. Are

they efficient at what they do in credit decisioning from a

timeline perspective, but also, do they have a complexity of

understanding of different deal types, where they can actually

get in and truly decision deals based on the experience that

they have? For me, a lot of times, somebody who is a MPC as

a credit candidate, they need to be a little bit more

experienced, because if they're not, it's a lot harder to

showcase that talent and to say, hey, based on their experience,

they're going to add XYZ and value. And then the same is, you

know, generally true of people in operations and other

capacities. It's it's a lot of just, they've had experience in

key areas that I know bring value to my clients. And then,

on top of all that, I would just say that their resume really

matters. A resume for a star candidate has to look like

someone who hasn't moved around a lot. You know, there's

occasions where a quick stint somewhere can be explained, and

that's okay. But again, I need to understand their story in a

way that can be conveyed in a way that's understood and

accepted. And then the last thing is just compensation.

Because as much as we're talking about representing candidates,

our primary responsibility is still our clients, which is

sometimes hard to think about. When you're thinking about, hey,

I'm representing talent and trying to go place them in the

market, you still have to ethically understand, hey, my

primary job is to solve a need for my client, and a lot of that

comes down to simple math. Does this candidate? Are they someone

who's affordable? Are they someone who's commanding a

salary that the market will support again, if I'm not

niched? I don't know my. Market. I may not be able to answer that

question, and I may not actually able to add value to my client,

because if I bring them someone they can't afford, that's great

that this candidates a rock star, they can produce, they add

all this efficiency value, but if they aren't in the budget for

what the client can pay, I'm wasting a lot of people's time.

So let me ask you this; when you're

approaching a candidate and you're not specifically calling

on behalf of a search, which is what a lot of us do. How do you

get the candidate engaged? How do you even set up this MPC

relationship?

Yeah, that's a great question. I think again,

I'm going to probably beat this horse the whole time, but being

very specialized is the key, because if you get a phone call

from someone who is specialized to represent the niche you

literally operate in as a candidate, as a professional,

and someone calls you, it's a different conversation when you

can convey to them, Hey, the only space I recruit in is your

world. And so what I'm going to do first and foremost is I'm

going to pursue understanding you as a professional before we

I mean, whether or not I have an opportunity that I'm recruiting

for or not that for me is the right approach, even if I'm

taking a search to market, because it's going to take me

some time to truly understand if you're the right fit for this

Search. So even if there's a search, Hey, I am specialized.

I'm niche, specific. Let me understand your situation, and

as we develop that relationship with the candidate, the beauty

is the value we bring to our clients. It's not going after

people who are thanking God that you called them on that Tuesday

afternoon. It's the people who didn't really have time to talk

to you, but they start to catch, oh, there's value in talking to

this recruiter, because they are actually in my space, even if

it's a quick conversation, I want to keep in touch with them.

So it's very relationally driven. Again, it's a value

proposition to the candidate that, hey, whether or not I go

take you to one of my clients right now, we need to know each

other, even for long term relationship. And so that's the

approach that I take. And then from there, again, being

specialized, you can pick up on things that are causing pain

when you hear how things are actually going well. Derek, it's

been a good year. I've produced X amount in volume. The only

frustration is it's caught. It's taking 60 days decision to deal.

Hang on, that's a huge red flag. But I only know that if I truly

know the time frame it ought to take for a lender to decision

transactions so things like that. As you're talking to

someone and they're engaging with you, you can say, Hey, can

I provide some feedback based on my expertise in the market? I

think you're in a place that's kind of preventing you from

being the best you could be. You mind if I give you some

feedback? And so it's developing a relationship of trust based on

expertise.

So that gets the candidates engaged. What about

the client side? If everybody's hiring, if everybody needs these

people, how do you determine your target list?

That's a great question. So a lot of it, for

me, is just paying attention in a number of ways. It's

absolutely paying attention to who's producing at different

levels, who are the top places that are competitively looking

to be in the top 10 in the country, top 20 in the country,

and having a relationship developed with those hiring

managers to understand, how are you going about that? What kind

of talent is it going to take for you to achieve your goals?

Do you have the support in your back office to support the

production you're looking to have? But it's also

understanding what are the kind of new to market, new to the

stage, players who may not have as much volume publicly traced

where it's like, Hey, you're actually going to be a player in

the next two to three years. But knowing the people in your

niche, it's achieved through a number of things. It's what I

just talked about in terms of the rankings. It's attending

conferences and actually getting in front of your market and

getting to know the people in your space. But it's, again,

it's very relational, and it's asking, Hey, what do you need

right now? But where are you headed? What are you going to

need? And the next year, if I came across a top qualified

candidate in the market is that someone you would want to have a

confidential conversation about, every hiring manager you talk to

is going to say yes, but again, it comes back down to can you

actually produce that and value to them? And so if you can come

back to the table and say, Hey, I really urge you, when you and

I talked about the talent that it's going to take for you to

get where you're headed, and give them some feedback that you

actually have the talent that they're looking for 10 times out

of 10. Those those clients want to have a conversation with you

about that. The challenge for most of my clients is not paying

a fee to a recruiter or even going the search route. It's

working with recruiters who don't bring them candidates who

are well vetted, who actually you. Solve a need, or actually,

like thrust them toward your goal. So it's connecting those

two dots. But again, I think it's a lot of relational

business development conversations that are not just

centered around, what search do you have for me today? But let's

have a business conversation around where are you trying to

get to? What type of people are going to help you get there?

Dang. Just listening to you talk, it is so

evident how you are so good at what you do. Okay, so my last

question is, you've got this expertise. You approach

candidates in a very relational way, you approach clients in a

very relational way, all under the umbrella of this MPC model,

which a lot of folks feel often, can be transactional, but you

just walked us through how it's not. What kind of feedback have

you gotten from folks that you've worked with about this process?

It's honestly been extremely positive. And one

of the things I love most about the world we live in is we have

something called LinkedIn.

Is it on the World Wide Web?

It is. It is actually the website. But every

placement I make, it's part of my process. I ask first for the

candidates I place to leave me a review, and thankfully, almost

everyone is so willing to do that, and the feedback I've

consistently had is they just love the ethical experience that

they have. And that's interesting to me, that that

comes to light so frequently, because you would think that

ethics or something that every recruiter considered to be a

high priority, but it's just not. And I think what it comes

down to is a lot of recruiters don't really know what else to

do with a resume, than to go run to their clients and try to put

it in front of them. And so for me, it's a lot different than

that. So much of what I do is it's not spaghetti on the wall,

it's not resume spamming. It's very much a partnership with

candidates in the market around hey, let's work together in

developing a wish list of organizations that you want to

go to. I'm going to come to the table with recommendations. I

expect you to come to the table with dreams and desires. We're

going to put that together and come come up with a list of

target organizations. The result is, you're going to get in front

of the organizations you want to get in front of. And a lot of

times, it's people who they have all of the qualifications, all

of the resume to get them the job, but they don't have the

connections. It's the timing, it's the coaching, it's the

representation at the offer stage. It's giving voice to this

is what the market's supporting. You need to be paid X amount to

right size, you get you paid what you're worth, or it's Hey,

you're paid very competitively. Let's go get you an opportunity

that lets you maximize your incentive compensation to make

you a lot more money all in it's that expertise, and without

that, it's open season. They're on their own. They don't have

representation, and so many people I work with have had that

experience. They would much rather have a advocate working

with them, but somebody who's really a guide, a trusted

advisor, someone who's not just going out there and saying, Hey,

let me go. I'll keep you posted on what I get for you in terms

of an opportunity to interview. But no, let's go. Target an

organization we agree on. You're in charge. I'm going to guide

you there, and let's get there together. So the feedback I've

gotten is that that's really value for a candidate. They

appreciate that. They don't get that from everyone. And so I

feel really good about the work that I do based on that feedback.

And I bet, too, from the client's perspective,

you showing up with an MPC, is not you just showing up with a

resume saying, Hey, you do the work, you do the vetting, and

I'm just sending you this resume, and I hope you send me

25% if you hire them. I gotta imagine the feedback from the

clients is super similar. Hey, we know we're looking for

talent, but you brought us the talent that's spot on for what

we need to achieve our goals. I imagine you get some feedback

that it's a game changer that way too for you.

For sure, for sure. And I'd say too that like

I think most organizations would like to have the unlimited time,

unlimited bandwidth, to take everything, to search and

competitively select a slate of candidates and pick the best

one. And I mean, that's an ideal world, right? We want that on

paper, but in the reality of what we are dealing with is you

have a goal to meet by into quarter one. It's the beginning

of March. Your top producer just collected his bonus and left for

whatever reason. What are you going to do? Can you go to

search? Can you go find that slate of candidates? Can you go

through that full process? Well, what if someone called you and

said, Hey, I've got someone who can produce at a level that's

equivalent to what your top producer was producing at who

wouldn't want to have that conversation. So again, it's a

time saver and a money saver, because the time it takes to

take an opportunity to search, you're losing money on that top

producers revenue. And so a lot of it is it's a monetarily

efficient way to select top talent, but. Again, I think the

clients that I work with value the industry expertise so that

they know when I bring them a candidate, it's not just

someone's resume that I got from a job posting.

Man, that says a tremendous amount. Anything else

that you think right now is critical for our listener to

know or be aware of when it comes to elevating the MPC

approach to the market?

Stephanie, you probably said this already, but

I think the overarching principle is that good

recruiters are good listeners. Great recruiters are phenomenal

listeners. And with everything I'm talking about, if you don't

go in with a really active listening mindset, you're only

going to be able to default to transactional recruiting, but if

you can really listen and really learn from every conversation,

you become someone who is incredibly valuable to your

marketplace and to the candidates you recruit. So

that's it. I mean, it's Listen, listen, listen and do something

with what you learn.

Love it. Derek, thank you so much for being here

sharing some of your wisdom. I know that there's a lot more to come.