Well, this is an interesting story that we're gonna talk about today. One that I

think you're gonna be seeing a lot more of in the coming years. We are

chatting with Jeff Revilla. He is the founder of Podutty Live.

It is out in Taranum, PA, just outside of Pittsburgh. It

is a podcast theater.

And like I was saying, I think the idea of live podcasting into events is,

you know, really gonna grow in the coming years and super interested to

learn more about the space and, your background. So, Jeff, thanks for being on the

show with us. I'm so glad to be here. Having a good time already. We

were having fun backstage, and I think it's gonna continue for the next, 20:20

minutes or so. I will I will do my best to, keep things light and

fun and happy. So, before we talk about Padutty

Live and, you know, what you're doing right now, how did you

get into podcasting and, you know, content creation,

you know, in general? Yeah. Podcasting for me, I kinda fell into it

in 2,006, 2007. I have my first

color iPad that, was inscribed for Father's Day,

and I I fell in love with shows like, you know, Marketing Over Coffee. I

think Joseph Jaffe was doing AdverCast at that time. It was it

was a long time ago. The bean cast was one that I listened to early

on, and I just I love this idea that I

could create something and put it out into the world. And though I wasn't restricted

by, you know, there were no gatekeepers. Literally, if I could record

it and and put it out in the world, it was there. And and and

I tried it for the first time in 2011, and I just I

had no idea, you know, what an RSS feed was or or how to

distribute audio through an MP 35. None of that idea.

And it wasn't till about 2015 that I put all the pieces

together, and I did my first trivia show. And and that's really how I

fell into making things interactive and and bringing an

audience into a show and and just having a good time

together as a group, and it's really evolved, you know, over the last 10

years to to where I'm at now. So you launched the stuff I never knew,

trivia game show back in 2015. Like you said, it was this interactive

experience and, you know, not that technology was ancient or

terrible back in 2015, but, obviously, the tools that we have today are are light

years ahead of it. What were you using back then to get that live

experience, to get that engagement with your audience as opposed to just talking at

them, which so many podcasters are used to doing? I'm one of those

crazy people that you'll hear rambling on and on and on and

on about a platform called Blab. And if you're around

Blab. Oh my god. Yes. If you're around in 2015

and you're on Blab, you you witnessed a great time in

Internet history where it was one of the first 4 in the box on the

screen, and and you could go live, and Blab had such this

great social element to it that within 3

minutes, Blab would flood your livestream with 30 to

50 people, and people would be typing commands and let making

it snow and making the and giving props, and it was

this great chaotic community element. And

it lasted for a couple years, and it got crazy and the technology

they couldn't keep up with the growth and it folded eventually. But

Blab left a huge hole in the market and and, especially for people

like me, a huge hole in my heart for this ability to be able to

connect in real time, and that's how I did my tribute show. At first, it

was I would I'd had nobody booked. I would go live,

and I would the first day people who wanted to play, I was doing a

game show with 8 contestants that weren't booked prior to me going

live. That's how powerful Blab was, and I I always

loved that idea that, you know, we could do all this together.

You know, podcasting could be more than me just, you know, sitting in my home

office where I'm at now and just talking 1 on 1. It could be

something so much bigger, and it can be an event. It can be an

extravaganza. It can be, you know, you know, a bunch of

crazies just sitting together and making fun of each other. And I

I just fell in love with the community element and and adding that

into the podcasting, which is really it's more

intimate. So almost 1 on 1. When you're commuting to work or

you're exercising and you're listening to the podcast, it

feels like you're in the room with them. It feels like it's this 1 on

1 interaction. And I was like, well, what if we did it as a party?

Right? We can make this way bigger than I think it it really is.

So what then so I guess it was the loss of Blab and,

you know, the experience that you have doing this in front of a live audience.

Is that what led to the idea for this theater?

Like, take us through from 2015, you start the show to

where we are today with, Padutty Live out in, Western

PA. Yeah. We tried we tried recreating it so many

times. We used Appearin and Google Hangouts

and, you know, YouTube Live, and we tried all these other things. You

know, Facebook Live was it was relevant for a little bit for small

creators, and it nothing just really did it.

So about in 2018, I came up with this idea.

Well, I'm just gonna go out into the world, and I I wanted to design

a a theater, you know, a production that I could fit in the back of

my sedan. So I had, like, you know, everything. I had speakers,

microphones, mixers. I had a podium that could just wheel

around and and ask and do trivia. And I thought, oh, I could

it'd be fun to, like, go to people's basements during a party and, you know,

host a game show, like, while there's a raging kegger going

on in the garage. Like, it would be something I could do anywhere, and I

and I wasn't restricted by a physical space. And I

kept thinking about that, and then I started to book. I booked my first real

show. We're gonna do free tacos and trivia, March

30, 2020. We were very excited.

We were gonna get it done, and then it just so happened,

it wasn't the best timing. A little bit of a shutdown happening.

So, you know, because of COVID, I took this, you know, podcast anywhere, you

know, pop up theater idea, and we were

indoors. We were, you know, stuck inside, and I said, well, what if we could

have a theater and we weren't bound by the capacity of the

room? And I I put some thoughts together, and I

actually presented this at at Podfest Origins, in 2020. So

I I came up with this infinite seat theater idea,

and that's if you look behind me, my my theater is 40

seats. Right? It's 40 people, but I can livestream to 1,000.

And that's that's kinda how this all evolved is how can

I do something with with an audience, but also, you know,

do it virtually so that anyone anywhere at any time could pop

in and and see what's happening here? I mean, right now, right,

between going all the way back to the days of Blab and,

Meerkat, right, some of the other ones when live streaming kinda became a thing, and

now today, obviously, live streaming is just everywhere. Right? People go live on

Facebook and YouTube and Instagram and now LinkedIn and TikTok. Right? Like, we're just constantly

doing live stuff in and TikTok. Right? Like, we're just

constantly doing live stuff virtually to our audience. But this

idea of bringing people together, bringing people into a space, I think, is so

exciting for podcasters. I I've been a part of a

couple of live podcasting events, and I've just been

seeing increased interest in podcasters

going out and doing their thing in front of an audience

and feeding off that energy and, you know, being able to have that in

person interaction. So what what's it like for

podcasters who are coming in to use your space? Right? Like, what can

they expect? What is the, you know, what is the workflow? What do they have

to know? What do they have to think of? How do they prep to be

in person possibly for the first time ever? Yeah. It is a little

different. Right? I'm not you're not sitting in your home studio. You're not

rerecording things. You're learning how to you know, or taking you know, doing

multiple takes to get it right so that you can fix it in in post.

What we wanna learn is there's, like, almost like a muscle to hosting, a muscle

to to live performance, and what we do is, you know, prior

to the show, we booked the show, and we look at the elements of of

their show. What pieces could will adapt well to the

stage? What plays well with an audience? And we start to craft. We

wanna kinda get into that 60 to 90 minute. It can include a

break. Sometimes I say, you know, include a meet and greet. If you if you

do smaller shows, you know, we're gonna do we'll call it a 2 show event.

You're gonna do 2 shows. We'll break in the middle. You can talk to the

the the people who are in attend attending, ask questions, q and

a, 1 on 1, and we try to just structure something so that we're

giving value to the audience because most of these podcasters are

they're really in between now, and that once they go from recording in their

home office to what they see as, you know,

comedians and actors who have launched podcasts, they're filling theaters,

and they're filling arenas. Well, you know, where I'm put I'm

in the middle there. I'm I'm trying to be that stepping stone. How do we

get out of the house, out of our home studios, into a live

environment so that when larger podcasts come through into

town and they need opening acts just like you see with music venues

and music acts need opening acts, I believe if

we look at the trajectory of podcasting, they're not gonna be able to continue to

sell arena seats for a $120 and only give them a

45 to 60 minute show. That's not gonna last forever. So we're gonna

need a mediator. We're gonna need opening acts, and

that's really what you mentioned. You're gonna see a lot of spaces like this pop

up. I really feel like this is that middle stepping

stone to get podcasters into that live

environment. You know, we structure their show. We help craft it so

that this is a product that they can they proudly can present. And once they

understand that dynamic with working with a live audience, they can

take that to a bar. They can take that you know, library sometimes do pop

up shows and community centers. They can start to think of this in a whole

new concept, a whole new, you know, aspect of their

show. What would you say is the

biggest problem that first time

users of a live space run into? Right? What is that big

challenge that you see over and over again that you wish they could be better

prepared for? Yeah. A lot of people don't

even get this concept until I show it to them. There's people who walk in,

and they they kinda understand it. I I just did a tour tonight,

and what we thought would be, like, a 20 minute walk through ended up

being a 90 minute brainstorm session because he's like, oh,

I have another show, and my friend does this. Oh, you can do that

here. You know, that that you start to see all the potential once

you immerse yourself in it. So I I get it. It's a

it's a different concept that's newer, than what most people have been

thinking about. I've been thinking about for 7 years, and I'm just

now understanding that nobody else has been thinking about it. So, you

know, getting people up to speed because they're a lot of people don't

think about doing a live podcast at all. They may have never even thought about

it. They thought live streaming was enough. So developing

them for the stage is is something that they really need

to you know, that's something that really catches people off guard. But what doesn't

catch them off guard is once they go through the process the first time,

you come off stage and you are juiced. Right? You

are you are elated beyond belief. You never thought

you could have that kind of emotion, that kind of rush

that that's that's something else that people aren't prepared for is the

first time they come off stage, like, for their first show. It's it's it's quite

a rush. I gotta imagine it is a great feeling to come off stage and

feel that, you know, rush, feel that energy, feel that adrenaline pumping after

doing a live show. I also imagine, and what I've sort of seen in

my own experience, is that it is more

effective way to directly connect with

your audience and turn a casual

listener or, you know, low grade fan into a

super fan and to an advocate for your show, and

even convert other people who, you know, might just be,

my friends are going out tonight. I'll go join them now. It's like, oh, this

is fun. I'm gonna go check this out. Do you see that in person

interaction helping to drive a lot more podcast growth for these

shows? Yeah. And even even virtual, the one

phrase that really sparks imagination and

sparks interest in an audience is the phrase

live from the main stage. When people say, hey. I'm gonna be at the Paternity

Podcast Theater. We're doing our show live from the main stage.

That instantly adds a level of credibility that they didn't

have a week ago releasing on every Tuesday. Well,

now the next week, hey. We're gonna be live on the main stage, and

that that there's something there's something magical about that

saying that you don't get from just a regular release

schedule. And and bringing people in I don't know I don't know if

you have a policy on math. I have a little I have a math equation

that helps, I think, really, people to see the value of in

person is, you know, Lipson publishes

podcast rates, and they'll tell you, on average, a host read

ad gets about $25 per 1,000 downloads. So if

you break that down, that's about 2¢, right, per listen.

And you're like, okay. Well, that's, you know, bad. I would love to have that

scale, and and we also know most podcasts don't get to a 1000 to 2000

downloads. So so taking that, that's probably a best case scenario

for 80 to 90% of all podcasts. Maybe

make $50 from a host red ad. Now what I'm proposing

is let's book a show. Let's put something together,

and if you were to sell 10 tickets at

$10 a ticket, you know, you bring in friends, family, local

fans, all of a sudden, those 10 people

with once we the way my business model works is we split the door

at the end of the night. Whatever he comes in, we go 5050. There's no

there's no minimums for the host. There's no upfront fees. It's

just simple door split. That's it. So there's no risk to my creators. That's

that's something I'm very proud of. But that 50% of the

$100 is also $50. So the

value of those 10 listeners

were $5 a listener. That's easily, what, 250

times greater per person

than the host read ad. So when you start to think, oh, maybe I could

scale this. What if I got 20, you know, people to my next show or

25 or 30? All of a sudden, there's a whole

new revenue stream for podcasters that aren't just based on

chasing this, I gotta get host red ads. If I get host red ads, I'm

gonna make all the money. There are other ways to to get here,

and when you're at a you're at a a place, an establishment,

you know, maybe you're at a bar, and there's drinks, and you're having fun, and

there's 50 people hanging out who all love podcasts. They love your

show. Maybe they wanna pick up some of your merch. It's a whole

different element than, you know, just sitting in

your your house trying to get to that host read ad.

You're even trying to get the ad. Right. And and I gotta say, it's

funny. I do the exact same math in presentations when I talk about

the difference between, you know, advertisement sponsor

or supported podcasting versus direct support. Right? Like you said,

2 and a half cents, right, for a person when

you are doing an ad. Whereas if you run some monthly premium

membership, right, you could charge $5, $10. I've seen people charge

$20, and that's per person. Right? So the the math is just so much better

when you can get your audience to directly support what it is you're

doing and creating a live event creates enough value that people are

willing to do so. So many podcasts, though, are

you know, their audiences are spread out. And so I'm

curious. 1, do you find that the shows that come in

and are successful, do they have more of a local focus?

Or if not, how are they bringing people in

when their audience might be, you know, really spread out

and they might not really have the the 40, 50, whatever many people,

to to fill that space, in their local market. Yeah.

I try to tell people, think of the stage like a portal. Everybody knows that

scene in Star Trek where they go, you know, down below, and Scottie's

down there to beam them up and down, from the planet to the ship.

And, really, this stage is that portal.

So you if you are spread out, that's not a problem.

We we do full live streaming. We have 5 cameras surrounding

the stage. We can switch between all of them at any time. We have an

audience cam as well. Your audience doesn't have to be local.

That's certainly a limitation in Pittsburgh. We don't have a huge

podcast scene. We have enough. We have some people around, but a

lot of shows, even my trivia show, it's everywhere. So I I

need to I need to be able to get that show. I need to be

able to bring people in from Portland, Maine or Portland, Oregon.

We can connect all those dots for them and and brought not only

broadcast, but also have their guests virtually on our

main stage as well. I gotta imagine, though, if you're in front of a live

audience, if you're claiming to be on stage and you don't have

10, 15, 20 people, you you

the the virtual audience isn't hearing that

audience reaction. And does that potentially hurt,

you know, the show, the product? Does it, you know, not give it the same

juice that they're looking for? No. I don't think I don't think it matters too

much because it is a small theater. It's it's designed to be immersive. It's

designed to be intimate. Even with 40 people, you're never more than 3

rows away. So it it's not like there's there's an

audience of 1,000. It's you're gonna hear that rumble of the room laughter.

I I don't think that's it's it's really based on the podcast and

their performance. Everything else is secondary. If if we do get

some laughs, that's fine. If not, the

focus is on the stage and on the star or on on the podcast.

Well, again, because you've invested into this space. Right? Everybody sounds good.

The the, you know, the video's looking good. So right away, that elevates

their production value. It's gonna, you know, make it look more professional and

something more appealing to the folks who are tuning in virtually to,

to check it out. We are chatting with Jeff

Ravilla. He is the founder of Padutty. It's a podcast

theater outside of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, And it

sounds like it would be an excellent space for podcasters who

are, 1, looking to get, you know, that make that transition

from doing everything alone, you know, on a platform

like Riverside or Zoom or something like that to making that leap to more in

person events and whatnot. And it just sounds like it'd be a ton of fun

and a great way to write kinda meet your audience.

Jeff, before we let you go, we have a couple questions we'd like to ask

everybody on the show. And, I mean, I'm sure this first one, I could probably

tell where you're gonna go with it, but I'll ask anyway. Is there another

place in podcasting where you would like to see some improvements,

whether it's from the production side, distribution, listening.

Right? Is it just something that really, you know, gets at your crawl about podcasting

that you'd love to fix? Yeah. I'd I really when I think back to

when I started listening to podcasts in 2,006,

7, and 8, that that DIY element, I

I feel like some of the smaller podcasters with

2 2 things I really think happened. 1, COVID

created a flood of shows, shows that are now

dormant, shows that produced 1 episode, and then they're just it's

muddying up the feed. So that that kind of drowned out some of the

voices of active podcasters, and then the influx of

celebrities and comedians have taken some of the attention away,

in that pool of, you know, there's only so much time in the day. People

can't listen to so many podcasts in the day. So I wanna re I

wanna bring back the balance to those independent creators and kinda

skew it back so that, you know, we're the dominant force in

podcasting again. Not not the top 10 that you hear

referenced on every news show every night of the week. We

wanna get well, I wanna build up some of the smaller shows, bring back that

DIY independent mentality. Love it.

I imagine that you have your, you know, facilities pretty well tricked out,

but is there any technology on your wish list, whether it's something that is

already out there that you've been eyeing or maybe something that has yet to

be created that you, would like to get your hands on? I need a little

more budget. I'd love to get some PTZs in there. Right now, I got

5 stationary cameras that I can just zoom zoom in and zoom

out, which is fine. It it gets us started, and, you know, things will

grow. As far as technology outside of

this, I'm not sure. I've I've kinda pushed

the limits of what you can do with 2 mixers and a StreamYard.

So, for right now, I'm pretty happy with what we got, but,

you know, other things would just be getting the getting some PTZs in

there. I hear you. We are eyeing a bunch of those right now for,

some some projects that we are working on, so they are lovely.

And, finally, is there a podcast that you listen to that is your favorite? Right?

It's one of those

episode comes out, you are going to listen to it, or, you know, you're not

gonna let an episode, you know, just sit in your in your playlist for too

long. As far as some of the

fun ones that I listen, I I still listen to Marketing Over Coffee to this

day. I still, I like there's some other trivia

spaces. Trivia Warfare and, Triviality

are some of my favorites, so I kinda stay in that space a little bit.

And I try to I just like the idea of, you know, those

those 3 shows have been around for a while, and they've been doing

it well for a while, and there's they're independent and produced

by themselves. So I I try to stick with them and support them as much

as I can. Perfect. And we'll we'll make sure we throw a link to, those

shows as well so people can, check them out. We've been chatting with Jeff Ravila,

founder of Paduti Live. It is a podcast theater

based in what's the name of the town again? Tarentum. Tarentum,

PA. That's just outside of Pittsburgh. Thank you for the assist there,

Jeff. Thank you, of course, for joining me here on the show. Really appreciate

it. You're welcome. Thank you so much for having me. This has been a blast.