Hey there.

Imagine a weight of a $200,000 IRS debt crushing your family.

Your mom who had no idea about the financial mess is now at

risk to being dragged into it.

It's a nightmare.

But today we're gonna give you the tools to protect her and navigate this

storm with confidence and with faith.

So stay with me to learn about innocent spouse relief, understand

illegal considerations, and discover how to take immediate action.

Here's a spoiler.

Your mom doesn't have to bear this burden alone.

So let's find a solution together.

Today's question is, how do I save my mom from my dad's $200,000 IRS

nightmare, and should I even try?

Hello everyone.

Welcome back to the As Ralph Show.

I'm Ralph, your financial evangelist, and I am thrilled

you're here with me today.

I promise you this, today's show is gonna make a real impact on your life.

So let's get started.

As always, my goal is to help you escape that cycle of financial

shame and do it with confidence.

So today we're reaching into a really tough situation and that's

dealing with a massive IRS debt that threatens to overwhelm your parents.

And listen, this is a heavy burden, but let me just start

by telling you there is hope.

Today we're gonna explore options like innocent spouse relief.

We're gonna discuss the legal and financial aspects, and more

importantly, I'm gonna provide you with actionable steps to help

your mom navigate this crisis.

So stay engaged because by the end of this episode, you're gonna have concrete

solutions to move forward with confidence.

Now, yesterday we talked about how to turn your paycheck into purpose.

It was a great episode, and if you missed it, be sure to check it out.

You can do that@askralph.com.

We discussed some powerful ways.

To make your income work for you and align it with your goals and faith.

Now, today, our listener question comes from a place of deep concern,

and when I got this message I was like, wow, this one is gonna be a tough

one, but let me share it with you.

And this is what this person wrote.

He said,

hi Ralph, my name is Donald.

I'm really struggling right now.

My dad has racked up $200,000 in IRS debt and I'm worried sick

about how this will affect my mom.

She had no idea about the financial mess, and now she's facing potential liability.

I wanna protect her, but I don't even know where to start.

My mom is a kind, loving person who has always supported our family,

but she doesn't deserve this burden.

I'm feeling overwhelmed and helpless.

Can you help us navigate this nightmare and find a way out?

Well, that was a tough one.

So Donald, let me start by thanking you so much for reaching out.

I can only imagine the stress and the worry this situation

is causing you and your mom.

And listen, it's a heavy burden, but I want you to know, first off, there is

hope I've, I've dealt with a similar situation several times and my 30 years

of professional practice, and I'm here to help you find a solution today.

So today, as I said, we're gonna explore the concept of innocent spouse

worthy, because I think that's really where you're gonna go with your mom.

I'm gonna tell you about understanding the legal aspects, and I'm gonna

provide you with actionable steps.

I'm gonna give you things that you can do to help protect your mother.

Donald.

First thing I want you to know is you're not alone in this

battle, and I am here to help you.

Now remember, you can submit your questions just like Donald did

by going to just ask ralph.com, because here's the truth.

I love answering your questions, and I love helping you find financial peace.

Well, let's start to in our search for that financial piece by turning

to the Bible for guidance, and I found this verse, Donald in the book

of Galatians, and it's from chapter six, verse two, and it says this.

Carry each other's burdens, and in this way, you will fulfill the law of Christ.

What a very strong verse, and what a way to give us reassurance and see this verse

reminds us of the importance of supporting one another, especially in times of need.

And your mom needs your help right now, Donald.

So I am going to give you some tools today to help you get to that point.

So let's use this verse as a starting point to find a way out of this financial

storm and help your mom carry this burden.

And I am truly grateful for the opportunity to help people

like you, Donald and your mom.

Because listen, the Lord has given me experience.

He's given me understanding, and he's given me the ability to guide others

through these types of financial challenges with faith and confidence.

And it's a blessing to be able to share this knowledge and make

a difference in people's lives.

So, Donald, let me start by sharing this with you.

I've dealt with this situation before.

Years ago, I had a client and, and we'll call her Susan.

Now this is a story, so wait until you hear this one.

Now, Susan's husband John had a thriving business, but unbeknownst to Susan, he had

been underreporting his income and yes, falsifying tax returns for years, this was

not a good situation and she knew he was a hard worker, but she just always assumed

everything was being done above board.

But she learned very quickly that there were some major issues.

I'm talking about major issues, and when the Iris finally caught up

with him, they set a notice for a, wait, wait, do you hear this one?

For a staggering $250,000 in back taxes, penalties, and interest.

He was getting hit with all of it.

He hadn't paid payroll taxes, he hadn't filed business tax returns.

I mean, you name it.

The IRS was throwing it at him.

And Susan was devastated when she found out she'd always trusted John.

She always trusted him to handle the finances, and she had no idea about

the extent of his financial missteps.

And you'll talk about stress.

This stress was overwhelming.

It was tearing their marriage apart.

Hey, I'm gonna tell you right now, it would certainly tear apart mine as well.

How about you?

Well, the problem is that situation didn't just affect her and John, their son, Alex

was deeply affected as well, and he saw his mom struggling and his dad completely

avoiding the issue and the tension.

Let me just tell you the tension in this family.

Was terrible.

You could have cut a, you could have cut it with a knife.

Now, Alex was in college at the time, and he felt this heavy load because

his mom was always crying on the phone when she called, and he couldn't

stand by and watch his mom suffer.

I've been in that position where I, I told you a story about it on this

show about how this car dealer was trying to take advantage of my mom

so I can feel where Alex was at.

So Alex said, he, he told me after the fact, he said, I decide to take action.

Now Alex was in college and he met with an accounting professor at his

school and they developed a plan.

They developed a, a way to get past this.

Alex certainly didn't understand all the nuances of things he needed to do, but

this professor advised him to tell his mom what to do, and this is what they did.

He collected bank statements showing that Susan didn't even

have access to the accounts where these financial issues occurred.

She wasn't a party to the business checking account

or the business credit card.

He also found emails and letters from friends and family that attested

to her lack of involvement in the financial decisions that was.

Really important.

A professor told him, you need to prove this.

Additionally, he found her employment records and professional

correspondence that showed that she was focused on her career.

I don't remember exactly what she did at the time, but she was by

no means involved in the financial management of the business.

Now Alex, with the help of his professor, filed Form 88 57 with the IRS, and

we'll talk about that a little bit later, but that's basically the innocent

spouse form, and he gave them all the evidence that they had gathered.

Now I'm gonna tell you.

This wasn't a process that happened overnight.

It was a long process, but Susan's genuine lack of knowledge about

John, her husband's errors was clear.

And here's the good news.

The IRS eventually granted her relief and the weight of that financial

burden was lifted from her shoulders.

Here's the thing.

That journey didn't end just there because Alex had to make a tough decision about

being involved in this in the first place.

See, he knew he needed to support his mom, but he also had to learn

how to set those boundaries.

I'm gonna talk about that today, how to make this decision.

Now, he decided to help both financially and emotionally,

but he made it clear to his dad.

You know, he said to his dad, you, you need to take

responsibility for your actions.

Now, I had a conversation with my dad like that.

I can only imagine what would've came back.

And for a while, Alex and his dad, they didn't speak at all.

The strain was too much.

In fact.

I remember his mom sharing with me.

She said, I felt like I was stuck in the middle between Alex and John

and, and I didn't know what to do.

But here's the good news.

Over time, through a lot of open communication and prayer and support of

their faith, they were able to restore their relationship and even his dad, John.

Finally saw the air of his ways and he started to correct his tax issues.

He hired a professional tax attorney.

They ended up hiring me.

That's how I got involved.

And he came clean with the IRS and started making payments.

He started getting back into compliance.

Now, this story had a happy ending.

But it didn't happen overnight.

So, Don, what can we learn from this?

Your mom can also find relief through this same process.

So let's talk about the meaning of innocent spouse relief as we get

started today, because I really feel like that's where we need to go.

Innocent Spouse Relief is designed for situations like this where.

One spouse is completely unaware of the other's financial missteps.

They just had no idea.

So to qualify, Don, your mom is gonna need to prove that she didn't

know and had no reason to know about the understated tax liability.

That's the key part of this.

And then the IR Rs is gonna consider whether a reasonable person, that's

the test they're gonna use, and her situation would've known about the errors.

Now.

I'm gonna tell you this is not always straightforward.

When a joint tax return is filed, the bias is going to be against it.

The iris is going to assume that your mother was aware of this.

And I, I did a show a few weeks ago about filing statuses, and I'm gonna encourage

you to check it out because I discussed this kind of issue, and it's really a

main consideration when you're considering filing joint in the first place.

But here is what you need to do, Donald.

Here's my step-by-step process.

The first step is going to be to gather information.

This is.

Is sort of like preparing for a trial when you've gotta prove you

were in the dark and, and let me just tell you right now, this can be

really uncomfortable in a marriage.

Trust me, I've seen that happen time and time again.

These are not fun times because you're basically trying to prove that you

had no idea of what was going on.

So you might be asking what are the records you're gonna look for?

You're gonna look for financial statements, you're gonna look for

other bank statements, statements that show your, your mom didn't

have any access to the bank accounts where the financial issues occurred.

Just like with my client.

My client didn't have any access to those accounts.

It was a business account.

She wasn't involved in the business.

You're also gonna look at credit card statements.

You're gonna look for evidence that your mom did not have any credit

cards in her name that were used for mine for financial missteps.

Now, this can get really hairy with joint accounts because a lot of times you'll be

the signature or you'll get an authorized user account for the credit card 'cause

maybe that's what you use as a family.

But if you are not directly connected to that, if you don't understand what's

behind that, they may be a way to escape that communi that that particular,

uh, uh, needed to be involved in that.

You also wanna keep track of communication records.

These are emails and letters.

Any written communication between your parents that shows your,

your mom was not informed about.

Financial decisions.

I remember one particular client and I'm gonna talk about this

next, and that's text messages.

You know, keep those text messages that indicate your mom was unaware

of the financial situation.

I had one client that I worked with many years ago and she

actually sent her husband a text message one day and said, Hey.

Are we gonna file our tax returns?

I was talking to my girlfriend at the club or something like that, and

she was talking about how much they owe this year and she said, I'm just

wondering if we're gonna owe it.

And the text message she got back from her husband was, oh, don't worry about that.

I've got that under control.

We already filed those a month ago.

And she goes, oh, that's great.

So did we owe anything?

No, it was just a little bit, so I had the business pay for it, but that text

message was something that I was able to use to show the IRS that my client.

The female part of this particular marriage was completely in the dark.

Now, another thing you could do is you could collect witness

statements or affidavits.

Now, again, I'm gonna talk about this in a minute, but this is usually

comes about when there's a break in the marriage or there's, there's

some kind of rif between the two.

But you can get statements from friends or family members or, or maybe even financial

advisors who can attest to your mom's lack of involvement in the financial matters.

You can also get written testimonies accounts from people who can confirm

that your mom was not involved in the decision making leading to that tax debt.

Nothing you can get is financial planning documents, maybe budget plans, any, any

plans or financial planning documents.

Do not include your mother's input if, if your mother had no idea

what was going on, if she didn't.

See these bank records.

If she didn't see the budgets that were going on behind that, then she

can be found, you know, innocent.

That's the whole point of this innocent spouse.

You also wanna look at investment documents, records that show

your mom didn't participate in any of the investment decisions.

Now, I'm gonna be honest with you, oftentimes these issues

trigger a break in a marriage.

So.

You may have to share some legal documents.

So let's talk about that because a lot of times I see these situations after

there's been a split, maybe there's a, a separation and they're, they're moving

towards divorce, so you're gonna have to share legal documents, whether that be

prenuptial or postnuptial agreements, but you can show agreements that, that specify

separate financial responsibilities.

You can also look at divorce decrees if, if they're applicable documents that

outline the financial separation of.

Access and debts.

'cause you may have a divorce decree that says, Hey, this was in, in a

particular case, this was John's business.

This was not her business.

This was not Sarah's business.

Another thing you can do, and, and, and Alex did this, is you look at work and

professional records, employment records.

You know, you could Donald, you could see if your mom's got a job that's not

involved with your father's business.

Look at her employment history, show her income sources talking about

how she's financially independent.

Maybe she has her own job.

She has her own.

Now, the problem that you run into is oftentimes.

They won't have that separation and you're gonna have a more difficult

situation to prove because your mother may be financially dependent on your

father, and the iris is gonna assume, well, you knew this was going on.

You can also look at professional correspondence, you know, letters or

emails related to her profession that show she was focused on her career and

and not involved in financial management.

Nothing you can look at is educational records.

Those are certificates and degrees.

These are documents that show your mom's educational background, which may

indicate a lack of financial expertise.

Now, this is gonna be sounding kind of harsh, but maybe some training materials

or, or records of any financial training or, or workshops she didn't attend.

And, and like I said, this makes she harsh.

But I've had to argue cases where I basically had to say that the innocent

spouse did not have the level of education to even understand the entire situation.

Now again, that got into a really difficult conversation because I

had to say to this spouse one time, I said, listen, I. I know you don't

really understand you know the breadth of what's going on here.

And, and, and I had to really have her write a letter to the IRS that basically

said, listen, when it comes to financial stuff, I am not smart about this.

I, I, I have a hard enough time balancing my own.

Checking account.

So again, it's not a comfortable conversation, but it's a conversation

that might prove what exactly what you're trying to prove.

Now, another thing you could look at is medical records or health documents.

You know, medical records that show your mom was maybe dealing with

health issues during the time of these financial missteps, which

could have limit her involvement.

I remember I had a case once where the wife was actually

recovering from a stroke.

And she had no clue that her husband was filing false tax returns

and, and signing her name to it.

She had no idea about that.

So we were able to use those medical records to document that for the IRS.

So once you've assembled all that information, the next step

is to file that form, 88 57.

Now, I'm gonna tell you right now, this is not for the do it yourself.

I'll get to that in a moment, but I would highly encourage you.

To find a professional to help you.

So once you've gathered all the necessary documents, you can fill

out and submit that form 88 57.

It's called a Request for Innocent Spouse Relief.

And make sure that you file it as soon as possible because there's

a two year statute of limitations.

So you wanna start that right away now.

Because here's the truth, the IRS review can take time.

I've seen it take a long time, but it's crucial to stay persistent,

make sure they got it, make sure they're aware of the situation, and

then you've gotta keep filing and paying your current obligations.

What you don't wanna do is just bury your headness in and

said, well, I filed that form.

They'll figure it out eventually.

That's a bad plan.

And listen, honestly, I truly feel that you should seek professional help.

This is not a great, you know, we can do it yourself project.

This is the time to consult with an accountant.

Maybe you even bring in a tax attorney who specializes in innocent spouse relief.

I've talked about it on the show sometimes.

Sometimes things get a little bigger than what.

I or another accountant can handle.

You may want to go to an attorney, especially if the IRS is looking at

criminal charges or anything like that because they can help you guide through

that process and be an advocate for your mom and see, here's the deal.

Professional help can make a significant difference.

In ensuring the best possible outcome.

My experience has been this.

When you're working with a professional accountant or a, an attorney,

the IRS tends to kind of stand up and listen a little bit more.

If you're trying to do this yourself, you may get that IRS agent says, oh

yeah, that sounds good, blah, blah, blah.

We're gonna continue.

But when you have that coming from an attorney's officer or from a an

accountant's office, I think you're going to find that to be much more beneficial.

Well, that's the overall process, but we've really gotta

make a critical decision here.

You've gotta ask yourself, and Alex went through this, if

you even wanna get involved.

That's what I talked about at the beginning of the show.

So before you make this decision, it's important to consider these things.

You gotta think about this.

When you think about, are you really want to getting involved?

First thing you gotta look at is your motivation.

You gotta ask yourself why you want to help.

Is it outta love or is it a genuine desire to support your mom, or are

there other motivations at play?

Make sure your heart is in the right place.

I've, I've seen this situations become a, a sort of a family squabble or

a family battle because, you know, dad left mom and left her, left her

on the hook for all these taxes and, and I'm gonna go to bat for Mom.

And it wasn't about the issue, it wasn't about that.

It was about, I just wanted to get back at my dad.

This is not a great place to battle those things.

You gotta also look at the impact on relationships.

Think about how your involvement might affect your relationship with not just

your mom, but with both your parents.

You know, you only get one set of parents.

You gotta ask yourself, is it gonna strengthen your bond or is it

gonna potentially cause friction?

One of the things that I've seen way too many times is that a son or a

daughter get involved and then all of a sudden the husband and a wife,

they reconcile and then they way don't want to talk to those kids at all.

So it's important to approach this situation with care and

consideration because listen, I've seen this tear families apart.

I've seen it cause life long breaks between parents and children.

You've also gotta consider the financial and emotional cost.

Like I said, this is not one of your do it yourself weekend projects.

You gotta consider the, the financial cost, the emotional

cost of getting involved.

Are you prepared to handle that potential stress and, and that burden

that's gonna come with this journey?

Because, like I said, this.

Is a journey.

Now, once you decided you're gonna need to set appropriate boundaries, I had a

counselor one time, he said, Ralph, it's kind of like building fences, you know?

He said, fences make good neighbors.

Well, in this case, you've gotta really establish clear boundaries.

You gotta decide how, how much you're willing to do and, and communicate these

boundaries clearly to your parents.

I and I say, you know, demonstrate that and communicate these to both of your

parents because it's important to protect your own wellbeing while helping your mom.

Now, maybe you've made the decision and Donald, maybe you're here,

you decide to, to get involved.

It's important to manage that involvement.

So let's talk about how we can do that.

What are the best things we can do to manage your involvement effectively?

The first thing I'm gonna encourage you to do, and I think this is

key, is have open communication.

Maintain open and honest communication with your mom and your dad.

Ensure that she understands the steps you're taking and why keep her

informed at every stage of the process.

And again, I'm gonna tell you, I would highly consider hiring professional

guidance, relying on a professional guidance from a tax attorney or an

accountant, because they can help you navigate the complexities of the legal

system and provide expert advice.

Listen, unless you're an attorney, unless you're an accountant,

you are not going to be.

That skillset for handling this on your own.

You're also gonna need to Blakely provide emotional support.

You're gonna need to provide that emotional support to your mom.

And one of the things you can do is just let her know you're there for her.

If you're ha if you have that professional handle it, don't get involved in, in the

quagmire of that, just come alongside your mom and say, listen, I got you.

I'm gonna help you let her know she's not alone in this battle.

Because if you think about it, she's battling the IRS.

Maybe she's battling.

Her husband, your father, and she can feel really alone.

I have dealt with this situation so many times where a spouse will

come to me and she says, Ralph, I just don't know where to turn.

And that is really a difficult situation.

Now also, if you're gonna get involved, I'm wanna encourage you

to not neglect your self care.

You can get engulfed in this.

Remember to take care of yourself because dealing with financial

stress can be emotionally taxing.

It was a pretty good play on words there, but make sure you prioritize your own

wellbeing and seek support if you need it.

So Don, in the end.

Your mom can overcome the situation.

I'm very confident of that.

I'm not sure how it's gonna play out.

It depends on the circumstances, but by taking these steps, you're not only

protecting her from financial hardship, but you're also showing her that she's

not alone in this battle, and that may be one of the battles that win the war.

You've also gotta trust in God's plan for your family and know that he will

guide you through this challenging time.

Now if you found today's show helpful, I want you to subscribe to our newsletter

so you can find out more about our show.

You can do that by going to ask Ralph podcast.com/newsletter, and

you're gonna receive daily tips.

I'm gonna tell you resource and encouragement.

I'm gonna show you all that went into producing this show.

To help you on your own financial journey.

So let's move into our reflection questions.

You don't always, always like to end the show with some reflection questions.

So let's start with number one and that's what steps can you

take today to gather the necessary documents for innocent spouse relief?

What are those things that you can, that you can assemble that we talked about?

Is it the financial reports, is it the education?

Is it the medical issues?

Start to assemble those things.

Now you might be saying, Ralph, I'm not in this situation.

That's fine.

Maybe share this episode with somebody who's going through this or, or maybe make

your children aware if they're getting married, like what to look for in this.

So that's our first one.

Number two, how can you support your mom emotionally during this process?

Understand what your level of engagement's going to be.

Are you gonna be involved in the day-to-day or are you

gonna come alongside her?

And just be that comforter ear.

You're gonna be willing to listen.

And third, and I don't wanna undersell this one.

What professional resources can you utilize to ensure the best

possible outcome for your mom?

Like I said, this is not a Doit Yourself project, so really consider bringing

in those professional resources.

So now let's don, let's take a minute and just talk about

our key takeaways from today.

We covered a lot.

So I just want to give you a recap of all those takeaways.

So today we learned about innocent spouse relief and how it can

protect your mom from your dad's.

I arrest debt.

I know that sounds terrible, but these things happen.

We discussed the importance of gathering that information, filling out that

form 88 57, and I hope you heard this, seek and professional help.

We also talked about how to decide in the first place whether to get involved

and once you do make that decision, how to manage that involvement effectively.

And remember.

You're not alone in this battle.

. If you're listening to this and you feel like you're all

alone, you're, you're not alone.

And there is hope for a positive outcome.

And my biggest takeaway is trusting God's plan and then

take action to support your mom.

You can't just trust.

You've also got to take action because it's not gonna help.

It's not gonna happen on its own.

Now, tomorrow.

We're to discuss how to start an emergency fund.

It's one of the things I talk about on the show all the time.

And tomorrow I'm gonna give you five practical tips.

So join me for another great topic that will help you achieve financial

success and grow in your faith.

So thank you so much for your time today.

I truly appreciate it.

Remember, my passion is to help you achieve financial success.

I wanna see you live out your dreams and I wanna see you grow

in your faith and I know together.

We can master your finances from a Christian perspective, so stay

financially savvy out there and may God bless you abundantly.