All right, lawyer talk off the record, on the air, we've Got a Circle 270 Media, our production company follow up question. And for those who have watched the show regularly, you know that this happens. Sometimes we talk about something and Brett, who makes all this stuff happen here, comes back and says, yeah, but what about this? And this just happened. We just got done talking about your right to counsel and Landman, and whether you can barge in or the lawyer can barge in and stop the interrogation and in its tracks. And do you remember the catchphrase that when does your right to counsel attach formal adversarial proceedings? Upon the instigation of formal adversarial proceedings, we have a right to counsel under the Sixth Amendment. For you scholars out there, the Sixth Amendment applies to the states through the 14th Amendment. Make sense of that. Go to law school, figure it out. It doesn't make any sense, but it is what it is. And Brett had a great question. Well, wait a minute. When does the. When does the inter. So the interrogation room is not adversarial. And you know, we as lawyers, I take some of this stuff for granted. Sometimes it's absolutely adversarial. Whether they act like it's not or they act like it is, or whether they come at you like good cop, bad cop. It is an adversarial setting, and I'll tell you why. Well, you tell me why.

I mean, you're.

I don't know.

I viewed adversarial setting more adversarials than like, it's not a formality thing.

It's not a place. Well, the police are trying to get you to confess to a crime.

Well, yeah.

Yes, they're trying to get admitted. I mean, that's. It couldn't be more adversarial.

I mean, they're not there to have a little powwow, that's for sure.

They didn't bring you down to talk about the weather.

No. Yes. And so, like, yeah, that's absurd. But like, I just. I've always viewed it more as not a place but as just like a trigger, like the arraignment or. So that's how I viewed it.

What triggers the right to counsel is not whether a step in the process here being the interrogation as adversarial by the term that we all know that to be like, they're against us and we're against them. It's a term of art, like so many of these things are. And this is why language matters and definitions matter. The Supreme Court of the United States has said the right to counsel attaches at the instigation of formal adversarial proceedings. And then they go on to define what that means. That means when I think that starts at the preliminary hearing, not even necessarily the initial appearance. The initial appearance is where you just show up, they read your charges and give you a bond. But at the preliminary hearing is formal adversarial proceedings. So even though what you're experiencing feels adversarial, it's not going to necessarily trigger the beginning of your right to counsel under the Sixth Amendment. So I hope that answers the question. And a lot of this, you know, we use these words like adversarial proceedings as terms of art, not terms of fact. Yeah. And that's what matters. So law is all about definitions and applying definitions and then finding wiggle room within the joints. Anyway, great question from Brett Circle 270 media lawyer talk off the record on the air till now.