On this episode of the Dudes and Dads podcast, we talk about caring for your kid that marches
to a beat of a different drummer.
You're listening to the Dudes and Dads podcast, a show dedicated to helping men be better
dudes and dads by building community through meaningful conversation and storytelling.
And now, here are your hosts, Joel DeMotta and Andy Layton.
Joel!
We are not in studio together.
Andy.
We are not in studio together today.
No.
And we're recording in the morning, which, you know, that's...
It's odd.
It is odd.
It's really odd.
But I'm glad to be here.
And there's nobody that I'd rather start my day with, minus my wife.
Nobody I'd rather start my day with than you, Andrew, and our lovely...
Starbucks.
Queen.
Hello, listeners.
And the Starbucks queen.
Yeah, queen.
There.
Yes, you're drinking Starbucks bright and early this morning.
And we're recording because we...
We were gonna record and then we realized it's Father's Day and it's probably not good
if we take the fathers out of Father's Day.
And so...
Yeah.
That would be something where it's like, "Happy Father's Day to me.
I'm leaving to go record."
Granted, we record in the evening most of the time, so that's probably okay.
But I didn't want to risk it.
And I'm getting together with my dad and so I wanted to not feel rushed.
Not feel rushed.
So yeah.
Yeah.
So yeah.
But you were like, "Hey, we can do this recording, but I'm gonna be in a random hotel in Toledo."
And so...
And that's where I am.
Yes.
And I should say when we initially booked this hotel, we just thought...
Jackie thought it was gonna be...
And I flew in from... it was at a work conference, so I flew in from Dallas to Indy, then drove
from Indy up to here.
And initially when she booked this hotel, she thought it was just gonna be myself, her,
and Aaron, and Josiah and Molly are also along with us.
So the hotel accommodations, the room that we got, let's just say we've got people near
mattresses jammed all over the place.
When I left the room this morning, it's a miracle I didn't step on anybody.
I got on there safe and sound, but it was close.
Gotcha.
But good.
So glad we could hang out today and have this discussion.
We'll see how it goes.
Yeah.
So we're doing this...
We've done it one or two other times where we've done this show remotely where you're
on a work trip or something.
So this will be interesting.
But so yeah, here we go.
But before we get started, I wanted to let you know that support for this episode comes
from Everence Financial, helping individuals and organizations combine faith and finances
through retirement planning, banking and other financial services.
More at Everence.com/michiana.
Securities offered through Concourse Financial Group Securities Incorporated.
Member FINRA, SIPC.
Thank you, Everence.
Appreciate you all.
Yes.
So Joel, beating to your beat, marching to your beat of your own drum.
What are we talking about here?
Yeah.
You know, so Andy, I think anytime that we talk about our kids and we recognize that
every single one of our kids are, you know, they've got each of them have their own interests.
They're uniquely different in so many ways.
They are, to quote a mentor of mine, they are unique, unrepeatable miracles of God in
their own in their own way.
And and that's a really beautiful thing.
If all my kids were the exact same, that'd probably be pretty boring.
Yes.
But we recognize that.
Yeah.
Right.
And we don't do boring, Andy.
We just don't.
That's not that's not how we roll in our families, for sure.
But I think about when and this can happen in different stages and probably for different
kids.
But I think about maybe the one kid, the kid that we have that has maybe some unique challenges
in life or it could be a set of unique challenges or it could be a set of unique interests that
lie outside of what other kids have.
Or as we said, they just they have you have that sense of they are marching to the beat
of a different drummer for any number of reasons.
You know, and then how we how we approach that, how we think about that, how we how
we care for them and encourage them when when that happens for us in this season of life.
Our second son, Josiah, who's 13.
That's sort of been that's sort of been the sense that we have.
He's just has different interests.
You know, we're we're open about and, you know, and talking about kind of some of the
challenges that we've had with with his ADHD and, you know, everything from kind of classroom
learning and how that's different to how he relates to other kids his age.
And then also just how kind of in conjunction with that, but also separate from it, like
what his what his interests are, what he's what he's into.
And I think that we just continue, especially as an adolescent boy, as a 13 year old.
I mean, the end, you know, better than I do, like what the realities are today may not
be the realities next month or or a few months from now.
I could just in terms of what what the needs are or how to interact with them.
But you know, there's just not a one size fits all approach.
And yet I don't know, sometimes I feel like if I'm if I'm honest, I feel like I personally
in my own experience more immediately relate to how to interact with some some of my kids
better than than others, not that I love them any less.
But it's like, sometimes I just go, I don't, I don't know what's helpful right now.
I don't know what is this feels off the beaten path for me or outside of my area of parental
experience, you know, whatever, whatever that might be.
So I think that's just the laying kind of groundwork, like the general the general conversation
of what do you do with that kid that is just a little bit different and different in a
really great way, different, really beautiful way.
But the one that kind of makes you like, scratch your head a little a little bit and it mostly
because it because they are it could be this, they're either very much like us, this might
be for some parents, that kid might be so much like us that we're like, we kind of we,
it causes us to stop and think for a second.
Or they're, they're, they're so different that it's the other that's the other challenge
on the other side.
I think I think just even that that's a challenge.
I think for me sometimes is like, you're always inevitably going to have somebody that's like
you that has the same interest and likes and you and that works well, I think because you
have the same likes, but a lot of times you end up butting heads on on some of the issues.
Right.
And that's not necessarily a bad thing.
But like, I think even in like, in my case, for us, I think Micah and I are a lot of same.
And then always ends up in fights like for me and him.
Because because we are a lot the same.
And and we're, you know, we, we see eye to eye on things, but we're also driving into
their nuts a lot of times.
Right.
I mean, it goes both ways.
So yeah, it's tough.
And I would I would imagine like in that case, especially as he is entering into I mean,
he's, you know, knocking on the door of the young adulthood journey, and he's got a year
of high school left.
And then you know, I mean, I'm sure I wonder about this, like, what conversations you and
I will have a year from now with, you know, right in that next in that next season of
life, particularly as you said this before, like,
particularly as the role of your parenting relationship changes, we all hope and this
will be our hope for everybody that when when your kid is about ready to whether it's college
or vocational school or or into the workplace, you know, whatever it is after, you know,
after high school, hopefully, relationships are maturing to more of a I'm there's a friendship
of your parenting changes.
Yeah.
Oh, yeah.
That's so so let's talk a little bit about about Josiah, or not necessarily Josiah, but
just children in general that that are, you know, marching to their own drum.
Yeah.
You had mentioned kind of having to try to do things differently or whatever.
So what's that look like for you guys, as you and you and Jackie as a family?
Yeah.
So like, so we were advocacy for him and not in not in a not in a like, hey, you need to
treat my kids special sort of way.
But recognizing that, like his learning style is different.
If I if I can be really honest with you, like, um, you know, as we have kids in public school,
like his learning style does not routinely line up with regular class, like regular classroom
experience.
Sure.
Yeah, that's like, that's a that's a thing.
And yeah, and, and we've tried to, so we've tried to think about identifying areas of
interest and then thinking about where he can be learning outside of typical classroom
experience.
So for us, we've been fortunate.
My dad, when he retired last year, he opened up a machine shop, a CNC shop that, you know,
Josiah has always had interest.
This would just say, and Michael would overlap on this, like, interest in mechanical, like
in mechanical things.
And you know, that that sort of thing and, and building and designing and stuff like
that.
Josiah has spent way more time than any of my other kids with his grandfather in a machine
shop.
And we knew we, I have a specific one specific memory of that, like a few years ago, when
we were my dad and I were like driving all over the Midwest to go pick up different machinery
that he was buying at different auctions and stuff like this.
And we got one, one particular, one particular machine that we got into his, into his shop.
We were disassembling some of the, some of it needed to be cleaned, like needed to be
cleaned.
I mean, this stuff was used and was older and needed to be cleaned.
And we were having, we were having a heck of a time, like two grown adults, this is
stumbling this one part of this machine.
Like like, how does this thing come off of here?
And how do we get it back on once we have, once we have it off?
And so we were like, well, we'll get back to this in a little bit.
Josiah was cleaning some of this stuff up in the shop.
My dad and I go to get another piece.
We had to like crane this piece of machinery.
And so it was like, it was, it was a slow and kind of precarious process.
And meanwhile, Josiah is in the shop.
And if we, we literally, we literally come back in an hour later, Josiah has not only
disassembled, cleaned it out, but has reassembled nice by this time.
And my dad and I just, I mean, we just stared at each other blankly.
We're like, I don't know.
I don't know.
You know, and Josiah would have been, I mean, he would have been not even 12, maybe at that
point.
So, so then we'd be, I mean, that was just kind of another confirmation of like, okay,
this, this kid sees things different.
He approaches problems differently.
He has a problem solver and that, and that sort of way.
And this might be the kind of environment where he really gets to, to see some success
that he, he gets to kind of find himself and understand himself a little bit better.
And, and here's the, here's the part.
He also gets to make some money at it.
So you know, so he's, you know, my dad is for, for jobs and tasks that have been there
at the shop.
You know, he'll come back home after a few days with a little few more dollars in his
hand.
And the, the problem is, is that Josiah now is, is a far more successful businessman than
any of the rest of my children at this point.
So his piggy bank has grown.
So, so I think, you know, we were fortunate, right?
Like we had someone in family that had some similar interests and so we've kind of, we've
outsourced it, outsourced it a little bit that, you know, grandpa has become which grandparents
are great.
And I hope for everybody, like if you've got a grandparent that is in close proximity I
don't know for Andy and you and I, like for both of our families, that has been, it's
a high value, right?
Like grandparents in the life is, is a big deal.
We've made even some pretty significant life choices based upon being in proximity to grandparents
and having those, having those relationships.
But yeah, we were, we were fortunate, like we had somebody in our, in our family that
could provide a classroom, a learning opportunity that was non-traditional, non-traditional,
non-traditional, right.
And it was different and where you could go now, Josiah this summer has flat out asked
apart from some, you know, he's got a football camp and there's a few other things with scouts
and stuff like that.
But apart from that has asked, can I go spend, can I go live at grandpa and grandma's house
for a week here and a week there?
And it said, okay.
And you know, it's kind of caused Jackie and I to pause a little bit.
Like that's him kind of being away from our family for several days at a time.
Is that, is that good?
Is that okay?
Like how, how do you do that as parents?
Like, I guess, okay.
So what, what is your decision on that?
Like, have you guys made a decision?
Yeah.
So yeah, so he's got some other, he's got like a football camp coming up in a little
bit and I think some scout outings and things that we want to do.
But for him to go, I think a couple of days, two, three days away.
I mean, my parents live less than an hour away and go and do that.
Like cause here's the alternative.
I mean, to some degree we've taken, we've taken away the PS five is not like available
to our kids for especially in the summer where it's like, you need to be right.
And right.
And all that.
But like he will be more, there'll be better opportunities and better experiences for him.
To get out of the house and to go and do that and to continue to develop a relationship
with his grandfather, which is, I mean, high priority for us.
And so, you know, we've said, yeah, like that'll, that'll, that'll work.
I think that'll be, that'll be a good thing.
Well, it'll also develop him some skills too, because again, like, I mean, as parents, we
can only do so much because I think kids kind of tune us out because they're used to seeing
us as, as parents and as a person to say no.
And like, as long as grandpa and grandma have the same morals and values, I think that that's
okay.
Right.
I mean, it's one thing if you're, your grandparents are not living like you want them to, but
as long as they, they live the same way as you and have the same morals and values, I
think that that's, that's fine.
And I mean, I think it's, it's probably, I know at least for us, it would be a struggle
because even when our kids stay away for a short amount of time, they come home with
what we call a grandma hangover.
Right.
I mean, they're just grumpy and like, you know, they're just, you know, whatever.
So I think that like that is definitely something to consider, but at the same time, like you're
gonna, the kids are gonna grow up and grab skills and feel more, more independent.
Right.
And that's hard as parents when we kind of let go of the reins, right?
Like you're not going to be able to parent your son for a little bit because you're not,
you know, you're around.
Right.
Yep.
And I love what you said there, Andy, because this is a, I don't know.
I'm I am, I am feeling a little bit of conviction in my life at this point of like, how, how
are we doing at instilling independence in our kids?
Because for a kid who, for a kid who marches to the beat of his own or his or her own drummer,
they tend to be naturally more independent in and of, in and of themselves.
I'm sure, I'm sure it reminds you on a daily basis that he is seeking to be more and more
independent.
Yeah.
Right.
And, and so that, but it feels like that desire for independence comes sooner than I thought
it would in the relationship.
Like, cause just as how old now he's 13, he's 13 and his, his older brother, who's a year
and a half, not even a year and a half older than him is not seeking that level, like the
same level of independence, which that has been, that's the weird, I think it's the weird
thing when a younger in our case, like when a younger kid is ahead of the curve on the
independence train, you know is kind of like asking to do things outside of the house more
and to do things away and do things that are where we are not like indirect supervision.
Yeah.
I think, I mean, for, for us, Micah is our oldest and he's been pretty independent all
along again.
Right.
And like, I think that didn't really surprise me when, you know, he wanted to go and buy
his own car and buy it, you know, do his own stuff and whatever, whatever.
But then my second Eli right now is currently in Germany, like wanting to go for with the
German club for, for school.
They're going to be gone for three weeks, like almost a month.
And that was crazy for us at first, I think as parents for, for one, Eli was, it wasn't,
is like the homebody.
He's the person that wanted to be around us all the time and wanted to be home.
And he's, he's more shy than Micah is.
But when he said, Hey, I would like to do this.
We're like, absolutely.
Like you were the one bringing it to us.
Go for it.
And so he's currently over there.
And like, I think as a parent, I was, I was a little bit hesitant because I was like,
that's a long way.
That's a long time away from, from us.
Like you're gone.
Like you're, you know, it just kind of surprised me a little bit that he wanted to do it, but
we, yeah, we were glad to have him do it because yeah, he's, he's experiencing some things
stuff and from what we're gathering, I think he's going to come home a changed person.
Yeah.
I mean, I hope Galilee that's a, I would, I mean, I can just imagine like if you and
I would at that age would have had, uh, like I didn't, I didn't travel.
I didn't travel to another country until I was almost out of college and that was for
a school thing.
Um, so man, he just that's, yeah, that's, that's super cool.
I, you said something though that I like when they, when they, when your kid comes to you
about, about something, I don't know.
Like I get in the habit and I'll just be honest with you, especially with Josiah sometimes
because Josiah always has these ideas, ideas, uh, share with us about what he, what he thinks
he should do or whatever.
I remaining open to when your kid comes to you with an idea of something that they want
to do or want to pursue.
Um, if I'm honest, it is super easy to get into a, like a nope, uh, not going to do that.
Um, sort of, uh, mentality and, and I've been trying to think recently like, okay, if I
were, if I were Josiah is, is dad the no person or is he, or is he the encourager and the
yes person?
It's not that we have to say yes to everything, but like, I don't, I don't think sometimes
I even take a moment in general with the business of life and everything, it is super easy to
be like, every request is an, is a, is an invitation to further chaos in our, in our,
in our family potentially can feel that way.
What does it look like?
Um, because the kid that, the kid that marches to the beat of their own drummer, like they
have a lot of ideas.
They have, they have things that they would like to do or like, would that are likely
going to include your involvement at some level or your permission at some level or
your money at some level?
Yeah.
Let's just, yeah, let's talk about that.
Yeah.
And, and very easily, I know I find myself into this, um, like, Nope, can't do that.
Can't do that.
You can't do that.
And as opposed to, even if it's something that we're not readily able to do at the moment,
um, talking through the, like, what are, what might be alternatives to this or in what way
can we maybe accomplish this differently or, um, because like with Josiah so many times,
the things that he wants to do or the ideas that he has are, there's like, it's like zero
to zero to 90 miles an hour, uh, very, very quickly as opposed to like ramping up to something
or doing some like further investigation about something.
Um, I'm trying to think of, gosh, I'm not sure this is a general sense that I have.
I'm trying to think of it as an example or whatever.
Um, well, and like you mentioned, like with Michael getting is, you know, getting, getting
a car and, um, like that's the first big, that's a big responsibility.
It's the first big purpose.
It's like, Oh, like, Oh, we're doing this.
Like we're doing this now.
Um, and, uh, you know, and so I don't want to just be the no person all the time with
him because then I, then I do feel like I am, um, you know, I'm not seen as somebody
that he can come to with his, with his, you know, seemingly wild and innovative and outside
the box ideas.
Um, cause honestly the stuff that the rest of my kids asked to do or be a part of is
like, Hey, I'd like to go to cheerleading camp or Hey, you know, it's like sign, sign
the, sign the form, turn it in, here's your $20 and you know, and then move on.
Um, it's typically not that way with Josiah.
Well, and I think sometimes as, as parents, I think we need to, especially have kids like
that that have lots of ideas and they're creative.
And, and, and honestly, those are the kids that are probably going to be entrepreneurs,
right?
I mean, they're the ones that have lots of ideas.
Cause I mean, entrepreneurs have that serial entrepreneurship thing where it's like start
start a business, start a business, start a business, start a business.
And like, I see that I see that in Micah, I see he's always, he's always trying to come
up.
I mean, I'm not sure lightly scheme, but he's trying to, but I mean, I'm using it again,
lightly.
He's he's trying to scheme.
Yeah.
He's trying to game the system a little bit, like see where there's, and that's what entrepreneurs
do, like see where there's a gap, like a gap in service provision or like, what is, what's
the thing that people might need that no one else is doing right now?
Like th like, yes, that like the wheels are turning in that area for sure.
Right?
Yeah.
And as parents, we need to, we need to do a good job and I don't do this.
So I'm letting you know this right now.
I don't do this.
I don't do a good job of, of like you said, listening and being the person that he can
bounce those ideas off of a lot of times I am the no person.
And I think part of that is because I get tired of it.
Right.
I mean, I mean, I'm just being honest.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
There's, there's a barrage of ideas coming in and it's like, well, I'm going to make
money doing this.
I'm going to make money doing this.
I'm going to make, I'm going to do this.
I'm going to do this.
I, as an adult, I think I've lost that sense of adventure and I'm going to sit like that.
Like, yeah, I'm, I'm all for adventure and doing fun things, but I think I've lost that
sense of, of yeah, let's try that.
Let's do that.
Or cause for me, it's like, no, that's not going to work.
And I'm always thinking of a reason that it, that the idea is not going to work.
And I think as parents, we need to go back and step back and say, no, let's, let's okay.
You have this idea.
You have this idea for whatever a car, washing and detailing, oil changing or whatever it
is like, what are, how, how can we make this work?
Like what, what does that look like for you?
Let's sit down.
And I mean, we've had experience, maybe not with starting businesses, but we know about
finances, right?
I mean, we know about different things like that.
And so we can sit down with our kids and say, okay, let's think this out.
How are you going to get the money for this?
Are you going to borrow money?
And if so, then you have to pay it back.
What's that look like?
Is there interest?
How are you going to draw up business?
Like you can kind of work on a business plan with them instead of just saying no.
And I, and again, I'm, I'm coming from that from a place saying, I don't do this.
Like I'm not, I'm not good at this.
So so, so for me, that's something that I need to work on better is, is not necessarily
just saying no, whenever in my case, Micah comes to me and says, Hey, I want to do this,
start a business, whatever.
And how much to how much of it is that we've, we've just got to find people.
This is a theme that we talk about all the time, finding people that can support, encourage
our kids who maybe have, have the ability to say yes.
When when we were not sure if we have the ability to say yes to something.
But we're, but we can connect them with a network of, of supporting people, people down
the, down the road a little bit farther.
That yeah, that can help, that can help them.
And that can be, that can be an encouragement to them.
Right.
And I think we all know somebody, I mean, there may not be, again, I'm thinking through
through our lives and my friendships and things like that.
And there are definitely people that I could hook up Micah with that would be able to point
him in the right direction because I don't know business very well.
Yes, I, yes, we own it.
Yes.
The two of us own an LLC together, me and you, but like we don't own a business.
And so I don't know about the business stuff that, that it would take to do what he's trying
to do.
Yeah.
And, and there, there is a sense in which, you know, without like crushing her kids'
dreams where someone else can give some structure and some expectation and some, some guidelines
to our kids' life.
Cause cause like Josiah expects that like, I'm, I think he probably expects, if I'm honest,
that I'm going to be to some degree, I'm going to be cautionary and I'm going to be like,
yeah, that's an idea, but what about this, this and this and this?
And like, but that's become my role as his parent.
Now if someone else is having that conversation with him in a little bit different context,
the message might land better.
Well, I'm thinking about your dad, right.
In Josiah, like what I was saying is you can, you can parent so far, but a lot of those
lessons that you are going to try and, and, and tell him may land better from, from a
trusted adult, another in your life.
And whether that's grandpa and you, another mentor, some, somebody else, those things
are going to land better when they're not necessarily coming from you.
Yep.
And that's, that's a, for all of us parents, that is a little bit of a lesson in humility.
Like you know, I think that's what it comes down to.
Especially when you were interacting with a kid that yeah, like again, marches to the
beat of their own drummer does things a little bit differently.
It might be that another voice is better received than yours and that you need, you need to
recognize that and not experience that as some sort of threat to your authority as a
parent or not experienced that as some sort of a slight to you, but rather as an opportunity
to say in this season, my parenting role with this child is going to be connection, resourcing
and finding someone else that might be smarter than me at this thing that they can, that
they can hear from.
And and you know, like you said, that is in line is in a line with what we as parents
are looking for, what we're, what we desire for them.
Well, and we've said it, we've said it before.
Well, at least we've had this conversation.
I don't know if we've said it on the podcast, but we've talked about the idea of, of having
trusted adults.
And I think you said this when you were in youth ministry, right?
Like to have, what is it like five trusted adults for anywhere?
Yeah, three to three to five in their adolescent years makes a very, very significant difference
in outcomes for sure.
And then those trusted adults can, I mean, take on roles like mentorship, like trying
to connect them with different things.
Because I think, again, it's as parents, we can only do so much, but if you have a trusted
adult that aligns with you morally, and you're kind of on the same page and you've talked
about this, that can invest in people's life.
I mean, honestly, Joel, that's what you're doing.
That's what your role and your day job is, right.
Is to connect adults to kids and so that they can have that relationship when they need.
Right.
I mean, so yeah.
And, and just to say broadly, no matter, no matter what kid we're talking about, it, I
mean, Andy, gosh, I just came from a national conference where annually we're reminded,
we're given the dashboard and the updates on, you know, youth mental health and what
the needs are out there.
And there are, so right now in, in the United States alone, it is, it's estimated that there
are 10 million children in the U S who do not have a trusted adult in their life.
Like just don't have like, like have your relationship desert, you know, which, you
know, which again is I probably their side of that is a plug to say, do you know a kid
that that doesn't have a relationship, you know, outside of parent outside of parenting,
do you know, do you know someone, a young person that's in that role or in that spot?
Like that is, that is a challenging, challenging place, a place to be.
And so, yeah, there's, there's the mentoring relationship is I think a unique God given
one to us.
That is that something very special and very unique happens in that context that can just
be an absolute.
And I see, I see it, right.
I was reminded just the other day, a young lady who'd, you know, who had an adult mentor
toward the end of her high school career, significantly changed the trajectory of her
life.
She's, you know, headed off to college now and it's going to be clearly going to be really,
really successful in whatever she does.
But yeah, that, that relationship ignited a, again, a brighter future for her.
And that's absolutely true with our children too.
You know, we're not, we're not, we're not designed Andy.
I mean, we're not designed, it's not our job to do everything right.
Like to be every, cause we can't be like, I can't be just like we can't in our marriages.
Like I can't be everything from wife or whatever.
I can't be everything for my kid.
If you have that expectation on yourself, like, man, call, call the counselor now.
Cause you're going to need them.
Right.
So I think, I think that is, yeah, I mean, a big part of this conversation is, is realizing
our own, our own frailty, our own limits and having some humility around that.
And that might be one of the better gifts that we can give our kid, especially one,
you know, that is approaching life a little bit differently than the rest.
Yeah, absolutely.
So, so you, so if we're, if I'm kinda, I'm going to recap a little bit here.
So you've talked, we've talked a little bit about trying to find special opportunities
for learning.
Cause a lot of times kids that march to their own drum have a tough time in a classroom
setting.
Right.
So for, for you and your family, that looks like sending Josiah off to work with your
dad where he's learning a hundred life skills.
Yeah.
Right.
He's very, very practical, practical skills that he's going to use.
Now I'm not saying that there's not a place for, for the classroom and learning.
Like I think that there still is, it just made me look, it just made me working at that
differently or finding a different way to, to do that.
Yep.
So it may, it may mean, it may mean homeschooling for some people.
It may mean working at trying to figure out the best way that they learn.
Cause everyone does learn differently, right?
I mean, some people are visual learners, some are audible learners, some are read it, reading
learners.
And so, so that may look different for, for your kids as far as how, how to make the traditional
classroom setting look too.
Cause obviously Josiah is still going to school.
For now.
Right.
Yes.
He's not, he's not not going to school.
Right.
And so, so that may be looking different, figuring out what that looks like for, for
him.
And then we talked about finding trusted adults that, that you can, again, this kind of goes
hand in hand with what you were talking about with your, with your dad, but finding trusted
adults that can speak into their lives.
And so that, cause again, and I think that this, this goes with any, any kid, I mean,
whether or not they marched to the beat of their own drum or not, like you need to have
those trusted relationships that I think that are going to be able to speak more.
And you're, you might have kids that you might have still have kids that, that listen well
to the parents, no matter what.
But I think, I think overall in general, like it's good to have those three to five adults
that are outside of you and your wife, they can speak into your kid's life and, and teach
them the things that, that you want them to, the kids to know too.
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah.
And you know, and then I think something we, we haven't really touched on much is the ex
the understanding or expectation that, that your kids friendships, either the number or
the kind of friendships they have with their peers might also look different too.
So what's that look like for you and Jackie with Josiah?
Like how does it look differently?
Yeah.
Josiah needs a particular kind of friend and that particular kind of friend.
So it's not a, it's not a, it's not a surprise to me.
Like Josiah, even though there's a bit of an age difference, Josiah and Micah, you know,
Josiah wants to spend time with Micah whenever, whenever possible.
Like if they, if they can, cause I just imagine I've never really like been a fly on the wall
in that scenario, but I, I feel like, I feel like the, the, the gears of their brains just
kind of like, you know, kind of melting, right.
And when he has that experience, which I think that experience is probably not very common
for him in a good, in a good portion of his day.
I think when he has that, there's at least a, like, Oh, there's someone else out in the
world that, that is like me in this, that is like me in this way that has these interests
or whatever.
So it has, it has meant that, and this, again, this is also personality type.
Josiah doesn't, isn't necessarily the social butterfly.
He doesn't have 20 friends that he, you know, these large groups or whatever it is going
to go hang out with.
And that's an introversion, extraversion.
There's there's definitely that too.
But we we've had to really think through our expectations of what friendship communication,
friendship connections look like for him, like, and, and, and how that, how that works.
And you know, I, for him, it's like, we just, we'd like to see a couple of trusted, trusted
friends that are, that are his life and that, and that's, and that's okay.
Cause we've also had very much navigate the I think Josiah desires that connection, those
friendship connections, the, the challenges in the junior high years is that young, young
kids who are maybe not on the best track in life, have a radar for other kids that are
looking for a place to belong and will like invite them in, but, but not under the greatest,
the greatest motives.
And, and that can be super tricky because then you, as a parent are being cautious or
saying like, yeah, I don't think this is a good idea.
It's easy for them to hear you don't want me to have friends.
Yep.
What does it look like?
So, so for a kid that has an ADHD diagnosis, right?
So sometimes that can be a lot like it can be overwhelming as far as like the, from a,
from a relationship standpoint, like sometimes I'm just trying to choose my words carefully
here, but, but that can be a lot as a, as an, especially as an adult trying to, trying
to be a mentor or a volunteer or whatever.
Like, so, so how do you, do you have any tips and tricks for adults or, or even, even other
peers that can help kind of make that relationship?
So it's not so overwhelming, especially for those who are not necessarily also way outgoing
and what, you know, cause like, I think, I think in Josiah and Micah's case, they, they,
they both are a lot, the same personality was like, you'd mentioned, they're both gearheads.
They both like to mechanically figure out things and they're very, very, very smart.
And so those relationships work well, but for somebody who's not necessarily on the
same page, as far as likes and interests and stuff, but wants to invest in, in the kids
and in their lives, how do you have any tips and tricks on that?
You just gotta be super, the general, you just have to be super open.
Like again, in our, let's just think about for a second, like our adult, our adult relationships,
like the relationship that you and I have, or our families have, you know, we didn't
enter into the relationship with an agenda per se.
Like, like, and again, this is so many years, it was so many years ago now, but you know,
we entered, we entered into an adult relationship with the hopes of, of just of connection.
And there was, there was a low, a low agenda in that.
Sometimes when we are entering into relationships with young people or whatever the case might
be, there there's an agenda or an expectation.
And I just think, you know, if you're gonna, if you're gonna come and be a part of Josiah's
life or Micah's life, like you need to do a lot of listening and a very, very small
amount of talking especially initially.
Again, it comes back to a certain posture that you need to take to, to hear them and,
and listen, and sometimes, like sometimes they're not going to give you much to go on,
like at all, like, like, you know, you're, you're going to feel, you know, and I've wondered
about that, like with their friendships, like, or, or kids that are like making initial contact
with them.
And yet, and yet sometimes it'll surprise you.
Like last, last night, I don't even know, like we were at a, we're at a minor league
baseball game.
There's another group of boys that are sitting next to Josiah and the few dudes he was with.
From, from my son's baseball team.
And he like just struck up a conversation with one of these kids, you know, and like
got his number and, you know, and I'm like, like that surprised me that legitimately surprised.
But again, there was no like agenda to that, that connection, right?
Like they're the same age, they're maybe interested in some of the same stuff.
And they just happen to sit next to each other for a couple hours at a baseball game.
I, you know, I, I don't, so sometimes we're talking about like, sometimes as adults, we
could take hints from that and maybe maybe better friendships to you.
Yeah.
Right.
I know.
And, and it's like, you know, my friendships right now is I've been, and I'm, you know,
are my, my friendships are largely built around the activities that my kids are in.
Sure.
Yeah.
That makes sense.
These are the people, he's the circle of people that, that you're around a lot that were around
regularly and that, you know, and that it's there, it's valuable for us to be, Hey, if
we're going to be with each other a lot, a lot, we need to find out, you know, it's really
good that we like each other or that we have connection and things like that.
So yeah, you just, you gotta, you gotta always question your motives, always question your
agenda.
Do you have too much of an agenda?
Do you need to be more open and receiving of because here's the other deal, young people
experience a sense of love and companionship just by you spending the time like love is
spelled T I M E and that, that in of itself is a, is a great gift.
So don't expect, don't expect too much.
Be open-minded approach the relationship openly and, and watch what happens.
Awesome.
I think, I think this has been a helpful conversation, I think, and I hope for our listeners, it's
been, it's been helpful to you.
And so if you, if you do want to ever let our own voicemail, give our voicemail call
five seven four two one three 87 zero two is our voicemail.
And again, that number is just a voicemail and we would love to hear from you.
So if you've got tips or tricks for kids that are marching to their own beat of their own
drum, we would love to hear that.
Or also, you know, feedback@dosendadspodcast.com is a great way to get ahold of us too.
Joel, any, any final parting thoughts from you?
I have, I've enjoyed this conversation, Andy.
It's if nothing else, it just helps kind of recenter me into the work that we're doing
as parents and how it's important.
And this is, this is a journey.
It is, it is a journey.
We don't always get it right, but I think taking some time, even, even as you and I
talk, it's like, I think some things fire off in my own brain around.
Like maybe I need to, maybe I need to take a different approach on a few things.
So super helpful.
Glad to have the conversation.
Thanks everybody for tuning in.
Appreciate you all.
Yeah.
And remember we are going to be at the Elkhart County 4-H fair doing a live recording.
If you did not see our announcement of that, it's going to be amazing on the Wednesday
of the fair.
So we'd love to see you out there.
If you're in the Elkhart County, Indiana area, look us up because you can hang out with us
as we record.
It'll be fun.
Awesome.
Thanks everybody for tuning in.
Appreciate you.
Make sure you like, subscribe, follow, do all those things.
Always helpful.
And until next time, we wish you grace and peace.
Bye.
(whooshing)