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Podcast is brought to you by Head Start Basketball.

Our other brother would probably be the best coach of the three of us boys, but he, he played at Northwest Missouri State and went to back to back sweet 16s I think while he was there.

So we'll go home and James and I will be talking stuff and he and our brother Matt watches all of our games and he'll just be like why the heck are you guys doing that?

That was dumb.

And then our dad chimes in, well you need to put this guy in this position.

And it's like, okay, Christmas now just turned into a staff meeting.

Joel Wallace is the men's basketball associate head coach at letourneau University, where he works under his brother James, who is the Yellowjackets head coach.

Wallace was named the Texas association of Basketball Coaches Small College Assistant Coach of the year following the 2023-24 season.

Previously, Wallace spent two seasons as a graduate assistant with the Manot State men's basketball program.

Prior to Manot, Wallace spent two years at Ridgewater College as an assistant coach after beginning his coaching career as a student assistant at Southwest Minnesota State under head coach Brad Bigler.

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You want to have your notebook handy as you listen to this episode with Joel Wallace, men's basketball associate head coach at letourneau University.

Hello and welcome to the Hoop Heads podcast.

It's Mike Cleansing here this morning without my co host Jason Sunkel.

But I am pleased to be joined by Joel Wallace, men's basketball assistant coach at letourneau University.

Joel, welcome to the Hoop Heads pod.

Thanks for having me.

Appreciate being here.

Thrilled to have you on.

Looking forward to diving into all the things that you've been able to do in your career.

Let's start by going back in time to when you were a kid.

Tell me a little bit about some of your first experiences with the game of basketball.

What you remember, what made you fall in love with it.

Yeah, well, I think basketball is synonymous with the name Wallace in my, in my baby book.

Actually my first basketball game was when I was less than two weeks old.

I have, I've got a dad that is, you know, super influential in my life and in my my siblings lives and he was a college coach for a while and then he started having kids with my mom and realized it's really hard, especially back then to support your family on an assistant coach's salary.

So then he went into education, the high school level and was a head coach and an assistant coach for years.

And so wherever he went, his three boys and daughter followed and we had a basketball in our hands and that's where we really learned how to love the game.

We're from from Omaha, Nebraska originally Bellevue, a suburb there.

And you know, it just like we just had a ball all the time and we were in a gym somewhere and so we got to watch him just have an impact on people and an impact on, you know, just young individuals lives.

And we got to see it from not an X's and O standpoint, you know, I could care less.

I had my favorite players just because I love watching them be on the floor and you know, they would come over to the house and there would be meals and Christmas breaks and everything in between.

And so that's really where I started to dive into the game but also dive into the relationship.

When you think about your dad and his influence and as you just described watching him as a young kid, do you think that relationship piece is one of the main things that you take from what he was like as a coach and maybe is there something else as well that when you see yourself or think about yourself and your coaching style, what reflects your dad and what you saw growing up Yeah, I think.

One thing that's interesting about my dad and I, I always thought it was an interesting comment that he would make, and I guess I didn't fully comprehend it until now, much later in my coaching career, but he used to say that I.

He felt more comfortable as an assistant, and he didn't have a huge desire to be a head coach.

And to me, that.

That was always strange, like, why wouldn't you want to have your own program?

But then I started to realize he loved.

Loved the relationship piece, and he wanted it to be that he wanted that to be the main thing.

Not so much the win, loss, record, not so much, you know, kind of the.

The other stuff outside of the game that goes on with being ahead and everything that you have to kind of manage.

He just wanted to be there and make kids better.

We call him the shot doctor.

I mean, the guy's got a beautiful shot, and so, you know, he would work 1v1 with guys.

And so watching that, I think going into coaching, it was never about the really cool lifestyle that some of those D1 guys have.

It was never about, like, oh, if I can get here, I can make this much, or I can be on TV or, you know, I could be deep.

Like, I just.

I never went into it with that mentality.

It was always, man, I can really impact people with this game, and I can really love people and show love to these people through this game from all different backgrounds.

I mean, you could be from, you know, rural Minnesota, which I've been in and coached, and to, you know, inner city Houston and Dallas kids that we get now.

And so to be able to just impact them in different ways and not that you need to go in with some sort of savior complex.

We don't.

We don't need that.

But sometimes they just need somebody to hear them and listen to them.

And so I think back to my dad in the way that he coached and the way that he valued relationship over wins.

That's really how I've kind of viewed my coaching trajectory of.

All right, remember, this is.

This is about the kids.

This is about relationships.

It's about getting them better, especially at the Division 3 levels.

Most of these kids are not going to go pro, and that's okay.

And that's okay.

You know, they're, you know, especially at our school at Letourneau, they're going to be engineers, they're going to be doctors, they're going to be cybersecurity, computer science.

Like, they're going to impact the world in a lot of different ways.

And so I need to love them for, you know, not the basketball player that they are, but the person that they are.

So how do you.

This is an interesting point in terms of relationships.

And when you think about a head coach's relationship with a player versus an assistant coach's relationship with the player, right.

The stereotype is the assistant kind of plays almost the good guy, the confidant that the player can come to when the head coach isn't giving the player as many minutes.

And sometimes it's harder for players to have those types of conversations with an assistant coach.

But how do you look at that piece of it in terms of the relationship with what you've seen on the staffs you've been with, on the head coaches that you've worked under, in terms of the relationship building, how you have to approach it differently as a head coach versus as an assistant coach?

Yeah, I think every good assistant knows his role and can find his role.

If you go in predetermining what you're going to do, I think you're going to be in for a shock.

You know, I've been at, you know, what, four different places now.

I was at Southwest Minnesota State with Brad Bigler and with there it was, I needed to be seen, not heard.

You know, not in a negative way by any means.

Like, Bigler ran his practices and he ran the drills and he.

And we made sure that those things were ready to go and we could have our side conversations when we needed to.

But, you know, my job was to just kind of do the little things there and then just, you know, I got put in charge of like hype videos and stuff by any means.

But it was like, hey, you know, he kind of looked at me and said, let's do this.

You know, it's all you.

I was like, okay.

So I figured it out.

But it's like that's how I had built relationship with guys was like, hey, like, you know, I'm going to put this video and I've got clips of you or I've got clips of whatever.

So that was my job there.

I went to Juco and it was very much more.

It was only two of us on staff and it was like a lot more engaged and got to, you know, stay on guys and, you know, just really walk alongside kids that were, you know, I was in, in Wilmer, Minnesota at Ridgewater College with Nate Tuft and we had kids from Apopka, Florida that were experiencing their first winter ever in Minnesota with MC for the first time in their lives.

And, you know, that's really hard.

Like, they're, you know, These kids are 18 years old and they're trying to figure out life by themselves.

Like, that's really hard.

I don't know about you, but when I was 18, I wasn't necessarily making the smartest decisions, nor did I have life figured out.

And sometimes we.

We place an unfair burden on them to, like, have it all figured out.

And that's.

That's not right.

And so there I learned how to just kind of, you know, be tough because, you know, if you give them an inch, they'll take three feet, right?

And so you had to be kind of, you know, stirring a little bit there for the betterment of them, not for, you know, the sake of being that, you know, totalitarian or anything.

And then at Minot, Merkin, like, that guy's intense, and he's going to be intense with his guys.

And so it was us as an assistant to like, really come alongside those guys and love on them, because Merkin was going to set the standard and we needed to come alongside and just reinforce the standard.

So not cut him at his knees.

Reinforce it, maybe say it in a different way or give them the positivity that they needed in those moments.

And that's what Merkin told us.

Hey, I'm going to be this way.

So you guys all need to be great in this way.

And, you know, we grow in all those different roles.

And here at Letourno, me and James kind of have my brother James, like you mentioned, we kind of have a really, you know, balanced relationship with the guys especially.

And so we kind of feed off each other.

You know, I'm a little bit more intense and go getter.

And James is a little bit more stoic and methodical in his approaches and.

But that really works.

Rah rah with even keel.

And so, like, I.

Going back to your point, relationships can differ based off of head coaches personalities, because at the end of the day, it all becomes about personalities.

What are their personalities?

How can I balance that personality?

If you've got five guys that all scream and yell on even three guys that scream and yell on staff?

Well, you guys are, you know, they're going to.

You're going to.

They're going to be deaf to your ears or to your voices by the end of the season.

And so someone's gotta be able to speak into that and love on that from a different, different angle.

But I think that goes to just kind of an emotional intelligence and emotional IQ that You really need to have if you're gonna get into coaching and.

Going back to your childhood and growing up with your dad as a coach.

And obviously, as you said, you and your siblings are spending a ton of time in the gym.

Were you one of those kids that always knew you wanted to end up in coaching, kind of be like your dad?

Or was that something that came to you a little bit later on as you get into school?

Like you said as an 18 year old?

Some people have it all figured out.

Most of us have no idea where we want to go or what direction we want to take in our lives.

So where do you kind of fall on that spectrum?

Yeah, no, I had.

It was not on my radar one bit.

I grew up in a.

My mom was a military brat and so I grew up.

So I ended up in Omaha.

Our family ended up in Omaha.

My mom's dad, so my grandpa was in the Air Force, so Offen Air Force Base is right there in Bellevue.

And so I wanted to go to the military and that was what I was going to do.

I was going to go into the Navy, actually.

I wanted to fly.

I wanted to be a pilot.

And going all the way into high school, that was my dream.

To this day, I still have pictures of blue angels in my office.

You know, if there's a documentary on Prime, I highly recommend going and watching it.

It's fantastic.

The accountability and relationships that they build at high, high level in a life and death situation truly is life and death.

So recommend that.

But with that, that's what I wanted to do.

And then, you know, I'm a man of faith and, and so I, I, you know, believe that God put me in a different direction.

I actually got diagnosed with a spinal disorder and was told that I would not one, be able to go in the military.

And then two college sports were not going to happen for me.

So I got ripped.

You know, one foul swoop of both of my dreams were just gone.

So with that, you know, coach Bigler, Brad Bigler at Southwest Minnesota State, he said, you know, well, if you can't play anywhere, why don't you come be a part of something bigger than yourself and just stick around the game while you figure everything else else out.

And so, you know, I can't thank him enough for that.

And so I got into coaching and I was like, man, this is kind of fun, you know.

And then I kept putting more and more and more on my plate and I was like, man, I think this is kind of the door that know is being open for me.

I think it's time I start walking into this, you know, all in.

And so from that moment on, I was all in the, the coaching game and had.

I've loved it, but yeah, it was, it was kind of forced upon me.

I think that's a lot of coaches stories too, is they either weren't good enough to keep playing or something happened where it was taken away.

So you can put me in that line.

Yeah, I mean, that's definitely true.

I mean, I think there's two camps of there's the person that at some point you're playing and your playing career comes to an end for whatever reason.

It could be injury, could be maybe you're just not good enough.

Could be, well, hey, I played Kyle four years in college basketball.

I'm not able to play professionally, whatever it is.

When your career ends and then you all of a sudden look around, you're like, hey, I.

I'm not going to have basketball in my life anymore.

How.

What am I going to.

What am I going to do?

And somehow you get to coaching that way and then you have the other people who are like 7 years old and they're drawing plays up on a napkin and they're coaching their neighbors and all that stuff.

So I think most people fall into some version of those two camps for sure, without question.

So it's interesting just to hear what the different backgrounds are that the coaches that we've had come on the pod, Joel, have talked about in terms of those.

Those different things.

So for you, when you start working there as a student assistant, what's one or two things when you think about that first year that stood out to you, that made you think, hey, this is something that I want to do for a career.

What grabbed you about coaching right off the bat?

Yeah, I think Brad Bigler would be the answer to that.

Yeah, you know, he is a tremendous human being.

He's extremely good at what he does.

He's very methodical.

I've actually met with Shaka Smart and been able to sit down with him and kind of a, you know, small group setting.

It was only about three of us outside of him.

And Bigler reminds me so much of Shaka Smart or Shocker reminds me of Big or whichever way you want to put it.

But his ability to just have a standard and love on guys and build a culture and a true culture, you just.

When you're around something that special, you realize you really want to be a part of it.

And then when you're a part of it, for, you know, the four years, I think that I was a part of it.

You want to replicate it.

And so I learned so much about how to build a team culture that can stand and that is bigger than yourself and is not built on wins and losses, but on the love and relationship you can have with, you know, the best friends that you go into a recruiting class with, you know, the guys that you go through two days with and you're running lines and, you know, you don't make the time and you got to run it again.

Like, those type of relationships that you build, you know, I.

People outside of athletics will never understand the love you have to have for somebody when they don't make a time and you have to run that sprint again.

The amount of love that you have to have that person is.

Is something else.

So, you know, great life lesson, though.

Like, you want to be in a serious relationship, you want to get married.

Like, you know, my wife Mallory is super special to me.

You know, it's.

It's not always easy.

And sports.

Sport can build those relationships and build that toughness to persevere through those things and really find a deeper level of love.

And so going back to, you know, why do I want to get into coaching Brad Bigler and the way that he loved his guys and built a culture, that's where I was in the chess game that he was always playing.

You know, how can we, you know, if I had to say, like, the three things I learned from him, it was one, how to score in spacing, you know, and create spacing to get scores.

It'd be the team culture, and then the third would be how to build a roster.

And so with those three things, it is always a chess match.

Like, how can we get guys in different spots?

How can we manipulate tagmen?

How can we, you know, bring on this kid that may not be the best player, but he is a culture king, where he's just going to come in and our locker room's instantly going to be better because he's in our locker room and he's just a positive voice that we can rely on.

Those types of chess matches, from the X's and O's to the roster construction, are all because of him.

And when I watched that chess game, like, just like any other athlete, like, I wanted to play that game and I wanted to be involved and just start moving pieces around and see if I could be any good at it.

Talk about that culture piece and the balance between having high standards and accountability and coaching guys hard.

And yet Also the ability to then, as you said, love on your guys and have those relationships.

What did you see from Coach Bigler that you carried on forward in terms of those two things?

I think that's something that, especially for young coaches, when you talk about how do I strike that balance between getting the most out of my guys, motivating them, making sure that they understand what our standards are, and yet at the same time making them feel loved and appreciated.

How do you walk that line?

What'd you learn?

Time and place.

I mean, when you're in practice, like, the standard should be there and it should be known and it should be held and, you know, you can't, you can't lower that standard at any point because again, if you give an inch, you're going to take three feet and then you're fighting the rest of the, you know, semester or even season to try and get those, those feet back.

And so I watched, you know, I would always, I challenge coaches and especially assistants because that's who normally I'm talking to is assistant coaches, is, you gotta put the time in, you know, and it's like you, if you're gonna be in the office all day, which is great, you can't all be in the office with X's and O's or film breakdowns or stats or whatever.

Like, you know, I put candy in my office and I find what candy guys like and in the office and it's not, hey, come up.

And, you know, I'm not trying to be, you know, weird with it, but it's just like, they know I have breakfast bars up there too.

So they know, like, if they need a quick snack or they, you know, need some sugar, they can come out to my office.

And you wouldn't believe the amount of times that guys would come up and like, oh, I'm just coming up to grab a snack real quick.

And then two hours later we're talking about, you know, the Cavs and Thunder game that just happened last night or, you know, what's going on at home and start to realize, like, they're dealing with a lot and so time and place is super important.

And then just being willing, you know, you know, both with your finances and maybe having a home cooked meal and paying for that out of your own pocket, even though you don't make a lot, if you're really, really down for them, you know, they're not, you know, sometimes, and this may be inappropriate, but I always say, like, they may be idiots, but they're not dumb.

Yeah.

Like kids May not understand, you know, a lot, but they know who's riding with them and they know who loves them.

Right.

So they can see if you're going to make a home cooked meal after a long day.

Like they, they know that and they can appreciate that.

And so, you know, you walk that line by being able to not toe the line all the time.

I think being able to step back and realizing that basketball is a very important thing, don't get me wrong.

And it's, it's what our job is and we're paid to be really good at that.

But it's also being able to step back and say, you know what, for the next two hours I don't need to worry about this guy can't, you know, save his life to be in help center.

Like he just, he can never, like, let's just not talk about that for two hours and let's just see, you know, how our class is going or how's the girlfriend, how's mom and dad or whatever it may be.

And so take a step back and just.

It's bigger than basketball so we need to make sure it stays bigger than basketball.

Yeah, it's a really good point.

It's one that I'll have that hit me even now as a parent of a couple of basketball players where I'll be sitting in the stands and you know, as a coach, as someone who has grown up in the game, that those games are really, really important and you care about them tremendously.

I don't care what your role is, whether you're a player, you're a coach, you're a parent watching your kid play, that those games are really, really important.

But I'll oftentimes have a moment.

I love the line that you used of, you know, sometimes you don't always have to walk that line of everything being life and death on a basketball court and I'll be sitting in the stand sometimes and watch my kid and I'll think, man, like this is just a silly game that we're playing to again, hopefully have fun, learn some life lessons.

And yeah, it's important obviously at the college level in order to be able to keep your job, you got to win some games.

But sometimes I'm just struck by the fact of, you know, maybe we all need to dial it back for whether it's an hour or two hours or like you said, that there's a time and a place for putting your arm around somebody and just knowing them and loving them as a human being as opposed to always trying to get the most out of somebody as a basketball player.

And I know I had those moments as a coach, but I definitely have them as a parent, where I'll sit in the stands and just a moment will wash over me.

I'll be like, man, sometimes we just got to step back and remember that it's.

It's human beings all playing this.

All playing this game.

Yeah.

And in this season especially, you know, we're having a.

We're having a good year.

I think we're 11 and 3 or 12 and 3, one of the two.

And I've.

I've really said this to myself a lot because, you know, I.

I can get intense, and if you were to ask any of our guys, they would say the same thing that I can.

I can be loud and I can, you know, kind of get after some guys.

But I.

It's always in my head, and I tell myself this, like, I'm a tactician, not an authoritarian.

So I need to act like a tactician and not authoritarian.

And what I mean by that is, like, if I'm going to be a tactician, I need to communicate with these guys and get these guys in the right spots and, you know, communicate thoroughly what they need to do.

Like, that's what I need to do.

That's my job.

They don't need somebody screaming and yelling at them, because it doesn't help.

It really doesn't, you know, and some guys are motivated by that.

Don't get me wrong.

I'm not saying that.

Hey, I'm not one of those guys.

Like, you can't yell at athletes.

Like, you can yell.

At least they can take it.

Especially at the collegiate.

Now there's a line.

Don't get me wrong.

But.

But sometimes they just need to explain to them in a different way.

Sometimes in a.

In a heated moment where they've made a mistake three times and their head is spinning, they need to just hear a calm voice of, this is what you need to fix.

And so that's where I just.

I'm a tactician.

I'm a tactician.

I'm a tactician.

And it kind of talks me down a little bit, but also it just helps me be a better coach.

And so you got to find what is going to help you be a better coach and better explain things and kind of keep you from crossing that line or always being on that line.

Yeah, that makes sense.

I mean, I think from a playing standpoint, so often I've heard coaches talk about, you know, that you have to be very specific.

In the type of directions that you give.

Right.

If you want a kid to do something, there's a lot of.

Sometimes you hear coaches say things, and there's.

There's not explicit instruction where the kid can't take anything.

Like somebody's yelling and, okay, you're yelling, you're upset about this or that.

And then the player's like, well, I.

You didn't give me anything that I can act upon to.

To perform better.

And I think that's a really, really good point.

When you start talking about being authoritarian versus being a tactician, I think that's a good distinction to make.

I never heard it phrased quite that way, but I like that particular language that you use there because I think it does a great job of illustrating kind of the difference and what players.

In all honesty, what I think players need is they need that sort of specificity to be able to understand, okay, I was.

Did this, or I saw this and thought I saw that, and instead I should have been here or whatever.

And just to be able to have players think through and be able to understand that for sure, I think that's a good way to look at things.

When you graduated, let's go back to your first job search.

Tell me what that was like.

I'm assuming that Coach Bigler helped you in terms of connections and networking, and I know you worked a bunch of camps in the summertime, which is always for any young coach.

Obviously not.

Not probably quite as.

Probably not quite as.

I don't want to say important, but just not.

It's not as easy to do as it used to be, because the camp circuit just isn't what it used to be in the past, where almost again, you go back 15, 20 years and there's.

You can barely find a coach that didn't somehow connect with people through the summer camp circuit.

But just tell me about that first job search and.

And what it was like and what the process went for you.

How.

How it went for you.

Yeah.

So with the.

With the job search, I mean, Bigler did a great job.

You know, like I said, I owe a lot to him, but the connections that he was able to bridge but then also just kind of like, he didn't sound like he just did it all for me by any, you know, stretch of the imagination, but he just kind of like, okay, well, if you want to do this, you need to go do that, you know, or you need to go have this conversation with him.

I'll follow up and I'll give my best recommendation.

But you Gotta do the work.

And which I really appreciate it, like, I 100% did.

Because there's a lot of guys that will look at their boss like, man, he just doesn't help me get a job.

I understand what you're saying, kind of, but are you having the conversation?

No, I need him to reach out first.

Like, that's not always how it works, man.

So Bigler.

Yeah, Bigler was, you know, with.

With Nate Tough.

Ridgewater's an hour and a half down the road from Southwest Minnesota State.

So when I worked at Ridgewater, which is the job I ended up taking after smsu, I drove an hour and a half to work and an hour and a half back every day.

And if I didn't, I slept in my office.

At one point in the preseason, we would practice late.

Late.

So if it was Monday, late on Monday and then early on Tuesday, and so we would do.

We'd sleep in our offices so I didn't have to make the.

The hour and a half trip back and I could, you know, kind of have some time at home.

Yeah, I mean, coaching can be such a grind, especially when you're looking to be mentally focused during the day and get great sleep at night.

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To get to that point, you know, Bigler just, hey, like, you know, these are the openings and, and, you know, Nate is, you know, Coach Tuft is looking for somebody and have the conversation.

And obviously, you know, we had a really good relationship with Ridgewater because it's right there.

So the kind of that, you know, coaching synergy with people around you.

And.

But then it was like camps, like, you got to work camps.

So I, I drove 107 hours one summer working camps.

I just Drove just to get to the place.

And the money that I made from those camps.

Paid for the gas, right?

Exactly.

I'm pretty.

I'm pretty confident that I came out negative in that.

And, like, I mean, let's not get twisted.

I'm like a college kid, so it's not like I had a lot of money.

I didn't have a job, you know, or an extra side gig because there was no time to do any of those.

And so I just.

Yeah, I.

I did the AAU stuff, and.

But it's really important, like the networking to.

To go to those camps.

And Covid kind of killed some of the college camps, which is really, really sad because it was a great opportunity to really grow with other people and get to know and, you know, I know we keep talking about relationships, but you build those relationships, and I think some of the new coaches coming in have skipped that part.

Yeah.

And you can tell.

And this isn't to knock the big boys, but it's like, sometimes you'll talk to those D1 guys, and it's like you can tell that they miss the relationship piece.

And so when you talk to them, it's just.

They're looking at your.

Your shirts and seeing that they're at a school.

You're at a school that they don't know, so they don't care.

Right.

And that's.

That's really sad.

And it's no fault to them.

You shouldn't go through kind of the gauntlet that some of us.

Others had to do, you know, driving 107 hours in a month.

This is a month span, so I shouldn't even say summer it was in a month.

But, you know, with that coaching search, like, it was.

It was.

It wasn't overly long either.

I mean, it happens like that.

It's a blink of an eye, and people are 20 different places, and so.

But I was blessed with a guy that was going to look out for me and make me do the work, but then reinforce on the back end, you know, my resume and what I brought to the table.

And so I just.

I mean, I.

I grew from every stop because the person that I worked for just helped me tremendously in my growth, you know, trajectory as a coach.

As you think about, I want to get into the relationship with your brother and how you get the opportunity at letourneau.

But just as you've been going through your career and thinking about where you are now, where you may want to eventually end up, are you putting together a.

And again, this goes back to the different coaches that you work under.

Are you putting together a.

A folder, a digital drive of things that you like, things that you don't like.

As, as you think about the possibility that at some point in the future you may be able to.

To become a head coach?

Yeah.

I mean, if you're not, you're crazy.

You're gonna forget.

And even if it's just like, like I'm a huge X's and no's guy, so I love, I love.

I mean, my Twitter is like, if you were to look at my likes like you used to be able to, it'd be all sets.

If you look at my bookmarks, it's like all sets.

I don't really care about the other stuff.

And so, like, I, you know, when I was at Southwest, you know, our offense that we run at at Letourno is a beautiful blend of Brad Bigler and Matt Murkin.

So we've got kind of the spacing, dribble, I don't think dribble drive, but it's ball screen heavy.

A lot of spacing, manipulating spacing.

And then, you know, we kind of did that Ridgewater too, and that's what we did.

And then when I went to Minot, stay with Matt Murkin.

Matt Murkin is not a huge ball screen guy.

Obviously, ball screen is a part of the game, so everybody's going to do it.

But.

But he is a more traditional one through five, you know, screen, you know, read your screen.

You've got five different things that you can do off the screen, and then everybody else is going to react off of what that one guy does off the screen.

And so I grew so much of my exes and O's at at Minot with that because I felt like I got pretty good at the ball screen spacing.

You know, we call it Phoenix and Brad Bigler calls it Phoenix as well.

Kind of Dan Tony type stuff when he was with the Suns.

And so when I got to Minot, it was a total shift in offensive philosophy going from ball screen spacing to a lot of just actions, wheel actions, whatever it may be.

You know, we're going to cross screen, down screen, diagonal screen your butt until you give up a layup.

Like, that was basically with Matt Merkin's philosophy.

And it's working.

I mean, he's fourth in the country right now at Minot State, which is not an easy place to win, but the guy does it all the time.

And so, you know, I, I'm always taking that stuff.

Like I have, you know, we have we have fast scouts and fast recruit and fast draw and all that.

And so I have my catalog of all of my offensive stuff and then philosophy stuff with every set or with every, you know, kind of concept, I'm putting that in there.

And then, you know, I just.

I'll have that forever so I can always go back and look.

And I've done that.

I mean, last year we ran a lot of box sets that we.

I took from Matt.

Coach Merkin at Minot, and we are really successful with them.

Different type of team this year, so we haven't run as much of that.

But I actually stole some stuff from my.

My friend and coworker, Randall Herbst, who was with me at Minot, and he's at und, North Dakota.

And Coach Saver there used to be at Northern State, and he used to kick our fricking butt with some line screens.

Oh, my gosh, the midline screen with the four and the five.

Just the, you know, the curls and the pops that you could do off of that and then the other actions.

So we've been running a little bit of that this year.

And so again, like, the people that you meet, the good people that you meet and you, you know, usually good people win.

And so I.

I like to surround myself with really good people.

And like, basketball is a game of stealing stuff from others and making it your own.

Like, nothing that I run is anything that I necessarily could came up with.

It is took from somebody else.

I'm not that guy.

I'm not going to take any.

I was smart enough to listen to when somebody or, you know, look when someone drew a play down and said, I'm going to use that at some point.

So that's what I did.

And so, yeah, I have a digital library, but then I also have, like, my coaching philosophy and just different things I've taken away from each people.

And, you know, like, Bigler did some things that I, you know, I don't want to say disagreed with, but I'm like, man, I think I would do this differently.

Same with Coach Tuft and Coach Merkin.

You know, I'm sure at some point, if, you know, I get the opportunity to be a head coach, there's going to be somebody that goes, I am never doing what, you know, Coach Wallace, but that's okay.

Fit your personality and find the stuff that works and doesn't work and then create your own culture.

But I'm always taking things and writing them down and then just having a coaching philosophy and little, like, pillars that I'm going to use when I have my own place, but also what we're using right now at Letourneau.

Yeah, it makes sense.

I mean, again, you want to be prepared if that opportunity does ever come across your desk and just have what you need and start to be thinking about it prior to that opportunity coming to you.

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Tell me a little bit about the opportunity to coach with your brother at Letourno.

First of all, how does that opportunity arise and then we can get into what it's been like coaching with your brother.

Positives.

And I don't know, I don't know if I don't know if there's any negatives or not between the sibling rivalry, but just first of all, how did it happen?

And then secondly, just what, what's, what's been, what's been the best part about it?

So I was at Minot State working for Merkin and my brother was, my brother James was down here at Letourneau as an assistant.

They had just had the D3 Player of the year in nae West.

They had like back to back years of, you know, 20 some wins.

And the, the head coach, you know, his kids had graduated, were out of the house and he was kind of ready to settle down and, you know, take a step back from the college game.

And he was formerly a high school coach, so we went back to high school and my brother ended up getting promoted to the head.

And we had a conversation, you know, as he was going through the process of potentially being the head coach and, you know, finally getting it.

And it was like, well, you know, if you do get it, what are you, who are you going to hire?

It just never, for whatever reason, you know, it sounds dumb now, but for whatever reason just wasn't on my radar.

I could go down there and be his assistant.

Just wasn't.

It wasn't like, I don't want to work with this guy, obviously.

It just didn't cross my mind.

And it Was kind of.

We were having the conversation, and I just, well, who do you think you're going to bring in?

Do you have a list of assistants that you can reach out to?

And he's like, you idiot.

I was like, oh.

I was like, hey.

And got approved from the administration and brought me in.

And it's been so much fun.

Like, it's been a huge blessing.

And I can't.

I can't say that enough.

Like, my brother.

I don't think I do have done a good enough job of, like, letting people know how fantastic my brother is as a.

As a person, especially I'm his brother.

And he.

We butt heads all the time, but that guy.

I know that guy loves me, and I know that that guy loves each of our players just as much that he.

He loves me.

And I say that, like, with all honesty.

And he has such a deep relationship, not only with just the players, but with every faculty member and staff member.

At Letourneau, everybody knows who James is, not because he's the head coach, but he's the guy that's always willing to do something for somebody else.

And so when you get an opportunity to work for somebody like that and it's.

Especially your brother, you just.

You like, you take it.

And now it was a plus.

I was going from Minot, North Dakota, where it was a high of like 25 degrees when I left, to Texas, where it was.

Now it was a high of like 100 when I got here.

So that was a shock.

Wasn't ready for that.

But, you know, he.

My brother's held, like, a gazillion different titles.

He.

When he came here, he was the assistant coach for men's basketball.

He was the head cross country coach.

Then he was the sports information director for a year, which is a crazy task to be for, like, 17 different sports while hosting a conference tournament as an assistant.

Like, it's just wild what he had to do.

And so he did that, and then now he's the associate AD for, you know, external.

You know, he fundraises.

That's what he does.

So.

But.

But he's had that many times, so he's.

He's brushed, you know, up alongside so many people across campus, and he's a special person.

So when you got an opportunity to go work for your brother and do that, like, you just.

You jump at it.

And I have, and I've loved it.

It's been really stressful.

Like, this has been the most stressful job for a couple different reasons.

One, like, you're going Into a situation where, like, you've won in the past, but he's looking at you saying, like, okay, well, you know, those were his guys.

What are you gonna do?

And so we, We.

We really worked at it, and we followed.

No, we followed nobody's advice.

So when we got it, know, Coach Bigler actually, you know, was trying to help us out of, you know, transitioning, and he was like, keep as much the same as you can, which is a really good idea.

Like, you should, I think.

But we did not.

We changed the offense, we changed the defense.

We trained, changed our transition principles.

I mean, we changed everything.

And our offense is.

It's not funky.

It's not like the Grinnell system or anything.

Anything, you know, just super, you know, wonky or different.

But just the way that we cut through, the way that we space and just kind of manipulate guys and positionless basketball, for sure.

It just was different for a lot of the.

The, you know, people had been here, and so they're kind of looking at James like, well, we're just blowing this up.

We just won.

You know, we just went 22 and 5 or 23 and 5.

We're blowing this up.

And we did, but then we went 22 and 5 and had a really good year.

And, you know, James got coach of the year that year, and he's just a really good.

James is a really good basketball coach.

Letourneau's blessed to have him.

I'm blessed to work for him.

He drives me nuts sometimes, not drive him absolutely insane.

So, you know, I'm getting the better end of the deal because I'd much rather work for him than.

Or work alongside him than myself.

I think, you know, people.

I say this a lot, but people ask all the time, what's it like working with your brother?

And I say, well, it's exactly like working with your brother.

You know, the pros are if you love the guy, you'll do anything for him, and you will.

You'll put the hours in and you care deeply about his success.

But at the same time, like, it's just like, I mean, when a brother mad, there's just.

That's a different type of irritation.

And Christmas, Christmas break and Thanksgiving break are just staff meetings.

So, I mean, we go home.

Our other brother is.

Would probably be the best coach of the.

Of the three of us boys.

But he.

He played at Northwest Missouri State over under Ben McCollum, who's now at Drake and killing and one, you know, went to back to back sweet sixteens.

I think while he Was there.

So we'll go home, and James and I will be talking stuff, and he and our brother Matt watches all of our games, and he'll just be like, why the heck are you guys doing that?

That was dumb.

Literally.

And then our dad chimes in, well, you need to put this guy in this position.

And it's like, okay, like Christmas now just turn into a staff meeting.

Like, let's just talk, figure out how we're going to be better, you know, on this.

This side of the floor or that side of the floor.

So.

But that's a positive, man.

Like I said, basketball is synonymous with Wallace, and it's.

It's a lot of fun.

So there's really no negatives outside of.

You can get frustrated, but I can get frustrated with anybody, and I'd rather be my brother.

You could probably be more blunt with your brother maybe, than you could be with a previous assistant coach.

I'm sure our offices are right next to the women's, and sometimes their assistant will look at me like, did you just say that?

Like, did you just.

And it's like.

And we have a graduate assistant, too.

And I talk graduate assistant.

I'm like, you know, coach Rip.

Like, do not talk to coach the way that I talk to.

It's like.

Like the 100% like, you know, and our guys laugh, and it's like, oh, you guys are talking to each other like brothers right now all the time, or it's anything inappropriate.

But every once in a while, there'll be a quick, you know, response back, and it's like, yeah, that's a brother response, not an assistant coach's response.

So sometimes I got to figure that line out a little bit and check myself.

Yeah, it's funny.

Like, I grew up, and I had only a sister, and then in my family, I have two girls and a boy.

So I've never.

I've never had a brother relationship in any house that I've lived in.

So I've only seen it vicariously through other people.

And every brother relationship that I know of is.

They're just like.

Again, they love each other, but then when things.

When things get.

When things spiral, it gets.

It gets crazy.

It gets crazy fast.

And my.

My.

My limited experience on the brother side of things.

So I can only imagine when you guys are, you know, talking out and going through things that.

Yeah, you can.

You can definitely, I'm sure, get after it a little bit.

Yeah, we get to.

We get to talk to our guys about that a lot, too, though, is, you know, we talk about iron sharpens iron.

Well, iron sharpens iron.

There's going to be sparks.

Like, there's going to be sparks.

Like, there has to be friction there.

And so, you know, they.

And we just tell our guys, like, you know, you hear us get after each other, and you hear us, like, hold each other to a high standard.

And it's like, that's.

Because that's what brothers do.

Like, we just do that.

And so when you guys are on the floor, like, it's okay to yell at each other.

It's okay to be irritated and demand something from each other.

Like, that's just.

That's part of being college basketball players, but that's also part of being a brotherhood and having a culture of success and a culture of just, you know, servanthood is like, we're gonna, you know, we're gonna let each other know when we're not reaching that standard and we're falling short.

So.

Yeah, it's a great point.

Great point.

All right, final two.

Part question.

Part one, when you look ahead over the next year, what do you see as being your biggest challenge?

And then part two, when you think about what you get to do every day, what brings you the most joy?

So your biggest challenge and then your biggest joy.

Oh, man, my biggest challenge.

I mean, over the next year.

Well, I mean, if you include this year, like, we need to get to the NCAA tournament, we're right there.

We'll be probably a bubble team, maybe even not.

So we probably have to win the Commerce Tournament to get in.

So, I mean, that's a lot of stress in and of itself, and we have a roster to do it.

You know, there's going to be some opportunities for me as well, hopefully, you know, God willing, that I'll look and entertain.

And it's just having the discernment there, you know, when you get to this level and you've been in it as long as I have, which isn't crazy long, but it's long enough.

There's just a lot of things that you have to manage and a lot of, you know, tables that you have to balance and, you know.

So I think recruiting will be another one.

Getting the right guys on the ship.

We're going to lose a lot of talent.

We're going to lose an All American and an all Conference guy.

So that'll be just kind of a.

A multitude of things of, you know, having the discernment to look through opportunities but not get caught up in that, because a lot of coaches get caught up in the next Spot and not embrace where they're at.

Now you've got no roster construction, replacing really good players, and then, like, balancing family life, like, you know, and then my.

My greatest joy and the most crazy thing, like, I.

So I have a nine month old now, and I now get to be that dad for somebody.

Yeah.

Which is pretty special.

And that's pretty cool.

And, you know, so I have a daughter named Jovi.

And so my greatest joy is the fact that win or lose, I get to walk through the door and I get to see my daughter, and it's always a smile.

Awesome.

And so, again, like, to, you know, kind of reiterate the theme, like, this is all about relationships.

And so I get to impact, you know, human being for the rest of her life.

And that starts right now.

And so I get the joy of coming home and giving her hugs.

And, you know, even though I could probably sit down and watch 10 hours of film on, you know, the last game, what we could do better, I'm going to get on the floor and I'm going to play with blocks and, you know, all that.

So that's.

That's my greatest joy is my daughter and my wife and just the support system I have at home and being able to lean on that.

And that's what keeps me going.

Because it's all about the relationship piece.

Absolutely.

That's good stuff.

All right, Joel, before we get out, I want to give you a chance to share.

How can people connect with you?

Find out more about what you guys are doing, whether you want to share, social media, email, website, whatever you feel comfortable with.

And then after you do that, I'll jump back in and wrap things up.

Okay.

Yeah, I mean, if you want to reach out, like, I think my Twitter and Instagram are at Coach Wallace 30, nothing crazy.

My email letournal athletics.com has, you know, just go to the men's basketball site.

You can find all my information.

Email me for whatever reason you need.

Contact me if you know, I spoke something out there that you need more on.

I'd be happy to just email me and, and I'll show you my phone number.

Like, my phone number is easily accessible.

So happy to talk with anybody.

I want to give back in any, any way that I can.

So that's really how you can reach me.

Awesome.

Joel, cannot thank you enough for taking the time out of your schedule this morning to jump on with us.

Really appreciate it.

And to everyone out there, thanks for listening and we will catch you on our next episode.

Thanks.

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