E03 - Validated performance and being held accountable

[00:00:00] Hamish: Welcome back everybody to another episode of the Mind4Builder podcast.

As always we are joined by my host, Matt Carlin from Carlin Construction. And today. We're joined by a very good friend of myself and Matt's, Marnie Horson. Marnie, thank you for joining

us today.

[00:01:08] Marnie: Thanks for having me.

[00:01:10] Hamish: you started, your working life, , as an environmental scientist. talk a little bit about that and then how you kind of moved into photography from there.

[00:01:17] Marnie: I always had a science brain but I didn't know what to specialise in. So when you don't. know what to specialize in, you just do a generalist degree. So I did science, , in environmental science. And then my fun fact is that I have an honors degree in sexually transmitted diseases in birds. And I've never really used that in a workplace setting.

Well.

Coming full circle and I think once you hit 40, you get an interest in birdwatching, so you never know when that's going to be useful again.

I worked as an environmental scientist for a decade and then just wanted to do my own thing. Not really sure how I transitioned into photography but it was more the business side of things that I was really interested in rather than what it was exactly.

[00:02:07] Matthew: So, when you talk about the business side of things, is that working for yourself or, , actually, like, just working in a business environment? It's different.

[00:02:14] Marnie: Well, I see photography as being the vessel for the business and then creating change through that business and I think I read the Simon Sinek book, , Start With Why and Find Your Why, at the beginning of the year and they really connected with me. Because when I started working as a photographer, I always found it really hard to pigeonhole myself.

I like helping others grow their businesses. I like giving advice to people starting their businesses. And I've always tried to create impact through business and personal life. So when I read these books I realized that my why was much broader I mean, I've made a little tagline that I'm in business to bring back nature, which is a big, statement, but it, it brings in my past and what I'm looking to do in the future and how I run my business.

So I think I just see it. as not just a photographer. It's kind of, you can be , all these things and maybe that's from being a journalist. I'm kind of the same now.

[00:03:13] Hamish: , what an amazing revelation though, right? I know, You know, Maddy and I are both builders, and I think what sort of, , gave me, personally, I guess a little bit of direction was finding, something that I can niche down into.

And then I guess if I take it a step further and like, why I niche down into Passive House and I guess everything that comes with it. Building a passive house, and that is sustainability and energy consumption and health and all that kind of stuff. I don't know if I've ever heard a photographer, explain their business, like, that you're bringing back nature.

I think that must give it so much clarity to when you're actually choosing the people that you work with.

[00:03:53] Marnie: Well, it's been an evolving concept over the last few years where , I always worked with people doing good things, to a degree, the criteria is pretty hard to apply with a lot of things and then I decided to certify as a B Corp and act more change in business, that kind of thing. Then also what I was looking at to do personally, which we can chat about a bit later with conservation and land and biodiversity.

It just kind of has all been, , evolving into something that's kind of taken a little while, but it does make it a lot more interesting and,, and meaningful, I think, to know you've got a bigger purpose than just the business that you do every day.

[00:04:35] Matthew: you explain to us what a B Corp is? For those who might not know what it is, just a brief, I don't know, elevator pitch, what is it?

[00:04:43] Marnie: Yes. A Certified B Corp is a business that meets high standards of environmental and social performance, accountability, and also transparency. you're assessed on 5 different areas of your business. They are, this is like the test of Passive Haus where you've got to say what the five things are and then I always forget one, but it's Environment, Community, Governance, Customers and Workers.

And I don't have any workers but they basically just roll up, the points from if you don't have something in that area into the other sections. But B Corps use business as a force for good. They envision a better economic system where business can benefit people, communities, and the planet.

[00:05:28] Hamish: I know you and I have B Corp before, Marnie, and it's not something that they, Just hand out to anyone, just like, you know, they don't hand out a certified passive house to anyone. So can you talk to the listeners a little bit more about the process that you had to go through to get that?

Because I've heard it's, pretty significant.

[00:05:45] Marnie: It's rigorous, but that's the point, that you can't just fake it. But at the moment, it's a point system. So you've got to get a minimum of 80 points out of 200 over those five areas. However, the whole B Corp system, assessment is changing over the next couple of years. It's just evolved and will be a completely different system. So we don't know what that will be like, but I've been talking about doing it for a while and then ended up You're procrastinating and thinking you're going to do it at some point. So the beginning of, 2022, I think I said, I'm not going to take on any shoots the first week of each month and just focus on that. So that really made me get it done.

[00:06:29] Matthew: Yeah, okay. And did you get punished? I don't know if that's a word, because you're, you're an employee, did that make it harder for you to? Seek certification. There's less points sort of up for grabs.

[00:06:40] Marnie: It is a little bit because you lose one whole section and the assessment doesn't discriminate between, you know, multinational businesses and sole traders. So initially I thought it would be very tricky being a sole trader with a service but I got a B Corp consultant on to kind of help me navigate

Because you answer a question and then you can just go down this track. And if you've answered it wrong, it's like a choose your own adventure, you'll end up down here. Maybe you've, you know, just answered the first one incorrectly. So B Corp consultants were really helpful just to navigate that and make sure you got the

[00:07:15] Hamish: Is it something that you've got to, , I guess get the equivalent of like CPD points every year to, to keep the certifications? Is it something that's revisited all the time or once you've got it, you've got it? Like, how does that all work?

[00:07:27] Marnie: You have to recertify every three years. So, At the moment, this financial year will be my recertification year. So, you know, you can look at it in any time zone, but I'll use this financial year, go through, then recertify again at the end of next year,

[00:07:43] Matthew: It's the same process or is it easier or?

[00:07:47] Marnie: Same process, I believe. So hopefully, people say it's not easier. Hopefully, I think it'll be a bit easier because I've written policies and, done some of, some of the beginning work, changed the governance. change banks, all these different bits and pieces you can do. So and I've looked at it and set it up for this year.

I've increased my impact a lot over the last three years. I'm doing a lot of pro bono this year, , with a non profit giving away the equivalent of 5 percent of my income through services and donations and that kind of thing. And they, will also be included in the B Corp recertification.

[00:08:25] Hamish: You're also, , contribute to 1 percent for the planet too. Is is it gross profit that you give away? Like, is it

gross, gross profit?

[00:08:32] Marnie: Yeah, that is, is part of that. That's separate to B Corp 1 percent for the planet, but that's a really easy way for people to have a formal, , program in place for giving away part of your income. And that also is good because , it's verified. You have to send in, tax forms and receipts and all of that kind of thing.

So you can't get away with greenwashing.

[00:08:52] Hamish: you tell us a

little bit about that 1 percent for the planet? Cause it is something that, like the B Corp thing I've been threatening to do for

a while. I'm pretty sure when we talked about it, it's a pretty straightforward thing to do.

[00:09:05] Marnie: Yeah, that is way easier. That is a good first step. You can pretty much sign up, commit, and then at the end of the year, you can choose who you want to align with, which is good. So, 1 percent for the planet is environmental non profits that you have to donate to.

It's not, well being or health or that, any other of the sustainable development goals. It's all around environment.

[00:09:28] Matthew: Is that gross or net of revenue that you have to donate or is it a?

[00:09:32] Marnie: Is that making you two rethink it?

[00:09:34] Matthew: No, no, no, it's just interesting because like, yeah, because again, yeah, I just look at it from a point that you can fudge numbers and make it look good to donate less and Like that, I'm just, that's why, yeah, that's why I

[00:09:46] Marnie: Yep, revenue, so it's gross.

[00:09:48] Matthew: Yeah, okay, so there's no, there's no, there's no hiding from it essentially.

[00:09:51] Marnie: No.

[00:09:52] Hamish: Well, I mean, , given that it's a voluntary thing, I mean, you'd only be cheating

yourself if you were

cheating the numbers on it.

[00:09:58] Matthew: yeah, totally

agree. so Going down this B Corp road, how has it sort of like, influenced your relationships with clients in industry? Have you, have you found it, that you've sort of grown a lot faster than you thought you would have and it's been a good avenue to get more work?

Oh,

[00:10:11] Marnie: I did so much work to change my client base. When I decided to only shoot high performing architecture, sustainable homes, I made a list, and I still have one. I don't know if either of you are on it, but I can check. Of architects and builders. in the high performance space.

I emailed them, kind of targeted people said, let's work together. And I hope my ethos makes them want to work with me, but you guys probably know better than me. Is that a reason to work together? Or is it, some people it's still probably surely about the bottom line and, even press publications, but I guess you're better equipped to tell me that answer.

[00:10:52] Matthew: It's a good question. obviously B Corp, it's like Plastic Vials, it's the ultimate. And, like, I have looked into it, and I personally, for me, I don't know if I'm doing it for the wrong reasons, but does that, I don't, sort of hard to choose your suppliers sometimes.

Like, you've had a relationship with them for 10, 15 years, and then you just hope that they can come along with the ride for you. And sometimes you've got to let them go. And I've been there, I've done that, like you've had to sort of move part ways because someone didn't want to upskill and get better or something like that.

actually don't know how to answer it to be really honest with you. Has it affected you Haym? yeah,

[00:11:31] Hamish: work that we do with Sustainable Builders Alliance, I guess the more, I guess I'm exposed to, people that are more in line with the values that I want to carry forward in my business. like, , I think the reality is that nothing is perfect. My philosophy is that if we're just constantly trying to be better every time we do something, we're just trying to be better and, you know, I'm always looking to align myself with people and designers and consultants who are more in line with my values. I know Erin, some good friends of ours, hey, hey, she's always looking for.

Better products to specify the projects that we're working with her with. So I think it's an evolving thing. I think it is very difficult just to go, you know, from this point right here, everything we do is going to be 100%. With what we believe in, because it is challenging. There's so many parts of the building and it's hard.

In my opinion, to manage every single one of them,

[00:12:27] Matthew: yeah, that's, but sometimes you take people along for the ride too, like I'm not just gonna be like, oh you're not doing this, I'm not working with you. Like sometimes you've got to go, hey I'm gonna stop and educate you, And we're actually going to bring you along for the ride and we're going to help you here.

Because I think if you shut people out, sometimes that person might be that next person that can bring someone else along for the ride. And that's how we grow this sort of bubble

[00:12:46] Hamish: yeah, it's 100 percent all about education. And like, Marnie, people like you, who I absolutely take my hat off to, you know, because you are so steadfast in, what you want to do and what you don't want to do. And I think it's incredible. And, and I definitely, draw a lot of that, commitment that I see in what you're doing for your business and trying to apply it to mine.

So surrounding myself with people like you is only going to make my

business better.

[00:13:12] Marnie: Well, I think it's the same when you draw a line in the sand, like you with. You know, you won't build a house that's not high performance anymore. , you kind of can't go back. And once you've said that as well, made a commitment, you've really got to stand by it and just, yeah, find the people that you connect with and have the same values.

And it

[00:13:31] Matthew: help

[00:13:32] Marnie: working a lot fun because all my clients are generally great people because you all share the same values in life.

[00:13:38] Matthew: You all want the same outcome, so why not just work together? I'm assuming you've had to say no to people before or recently. Is that, is that a hard task? Yeah.

[00:13:46] Marnie: Well, I used to not. Be very good at saying no, and I would overwork myself in the early years but I think when I Redid my website and kind of made this declaration of who I would and wouldn't work with it actually made it really easy Because you can't argue with that if someone has inquired with a job that doesn't fit what you've said you're going to do You just say I'm really sorry, but that doesn't work fit with my values or, you know, something, something similar and then recommend someone else that might be a better fit.

So it's, it's made a lot easier,

[00:14:20] Hamish: I think what you said before money about actually writing it down on paper and on paper in, in, in your context is putting it on your website. And I know we do it in our Instagram and I know Matt, you do it as well. You're actually making yourself accountable. You're putting it out there and you're saying, I'm going to do this.

And it automatically, then you're held to that. People are expecting that. I know with my marketing, it's attracting the right kinds of people and money. I'm sure. I mean, your message is incredibly clear and I love that, the next question that I've got for you, Marnie, it probably sort of flows on through this, quite well and, um,, what, in your opinion, are the best ways other businesses can make changes to increase their impact?

[00:15:06] Marnie: Well, I mean, when we're talking about B Corp, you can run through the B Corp assessment really quickly in a couple of hours without doing the certification, just to get a benchmark on where you stand in comparison. So that can be a good tool to then see where you could improve impact in different areas of your business.

But, it could spark ideas for the way you can implement change, whether that's environmental, community, or making your business better for workers, things like that. Another really easy one is supply chain. And part of that is who you spend your money with. I'm always banging on about this. I'm actually making a digital course as well.

We can touch on that a bit later. , but it's, , who are you spending your money on? Is it local suppliers, diverse suppliers, women, owned companies and ethical alternatives within that? Within that is also banking and super. They are so easy to change and a lot of people don't think about, you know, that amount of money that is sitting there and is that funding fossil fuels or invested in other things that you don't particularly want it to be invested in.

That's a super easy one. Another way to increase impact again is what we talked about, giving back, and whether that doesn't always have to be monetary, that could be pro bono, spending time on something. And then, well, building industry or anyone, it could be measuring things like waste, water consumption, energy, certifies carbon neutral is a good way to do that, or at least measure your footprint.

And then at the very bare minimum, you could say, well, switch to green energy in your offices, things like that. And With all of that kind of impact stuff, I'm about to launch a free five week mini course on how to make more impact in your business through my new subscribers. So by the time this is live, hopefully that's out there.

go to my website, take the quiz and then you'll be added to this free course. And that, that runs through just those basic things that are very quick fixes to how you can make more impact.

[00:17:12] Hamish: Awesome. I am writing this down and I'm going to do this, Marnie. I'm actually, I've got a whole bunch of notes in front of me. all this information is awesome. And, the B Corp thing aside, there's some really low hanging fruit here that I think are really accessible to everybody

[00:17:29] Matthew: so this year you're partnering with Odonata to run a business of biodiversity program. , talk us through this stuff. What is it? Who's doing it? Uh, why should people do it? How often are you going to run it? Like give us all the information.

[00:17:42] Marnie: So, I partnered with Odonata to run a six month course, or it's a six month pilot course, so there's no pressure on me. and it's for environmental champions within the private sector who want to find ways to connect their business to nature centered solutions. And I did this because I was looking for ways to create more impact.

And I met the CEO, Sam, through our own search for land suitable for a threatened species sanctuary. Complete with a small passive house, of course, once we find it. But it was a good match because I was very passionate about business and creating more impact. These guys had drafted this up a couple of years ago as a program and just didn't have.

The time or right person to run it. So we put it out as a pilot and we've had over 25 businesses sign up. We were going to cap it at 10, but we didn't want to say no to anyone. We've got anyone from sole traders up to big corporates with hundreds of thousands of employees like PwC, Coles and Hyatt are on board for the pilot and we've also got quite a good representation of architects and builders in there thanks to my audience.

So this will be interesting to see what comes out of that. But it's

[00:18:58] Matthew: Is this a bit of a test? Or are you sort of playing with it at the moment and just refining it? Or this is something that's released yearly? Are

[00:19:06] Marnie: Not sure. It's a pilot, so we'll see what happens at the end of it. It's over six months. It's about finding practical and tangible projects to do in your business that align with the values of your business and connecting your employees with nature and work towards basically stopping extinction. I mean, we'll talk about carbon now, but biodiversity is kind of lagging behind.

So it's about drawing some attention to that and getting it. into business as well. So at the end of the pilot, we'll assess and see what format it takes, whether it's, you know, turns into something digital as well or bigger companies, smaller companies. Originally we thought it would be employees within a company that would pitch upwards to a CEO for projects to implement, but we found that actually there's quite a lot of directors and more senior people.

So it might be pitching down, which makes decision making a bit easier.

[00:20:01] Hamish: I'm kicking myself. I missed the boat to jump on that one. I want to hear a bit more about this, piece of land that you want to buy. I know you and I have talked about this, before, but, it sounds incredible. So could you tell us what your, what this dream is?

[00:20:15] Marnie: Well, I've been on a bit of a quest for a few years to find land with high conservation values in order to protect it for biodiversity or conservation and leaving it for future generations to steward, so getting away from a private ownership model. it's a very slow process because you've got to find the right land with the right values.

bio links location, and it doesn't help that also we're a bit vague about where that might be.

[00:20:45] Matthew: you looking in Victoria or you don't care where?

[00:20:48] Marnie: It's probably more likely going to be Victoria,

[00:20:51] Hamish: It'll make it easier to shoot our projects if you're in Victoria, Marnie. I don't know if I really want to be paying a travel fee from New South

Wales.

[00:20:58] Marnie: And to find a builder, yeah, or a little,

[00:21:01] Hamish: A quick question, because you're looking at land that's got, , conservation, environmental or biodiversity, already on the land or it's already there that you want to protect that. But how you, would you consider like some land to revegetate it to get that biodiversity back to maybe link some corridors that may have been broken by farmland?

Thank you.

Can

I,

[00:21:21] Marnie: Yeah, definitely, and that, that has been one of the things, but I think after meeting Sam and Odonata has actually been thinking a little bit more about a threatened species sanctuary is something that's really quite tangible, which would be different. You would have to have good habitat there already and suitable, but they had run also running a program with landholders trying to get 50 private sanctuaries by I 2050 sounds good, but it might actually be 2030.

I don't want to get in trouble for saying the wrong year. But, Yeah, I find that really interesting because it, rather than just, you know, protecting land, which is a little bit vague, you're actually fencing it, and then once there's pests, rabbits, foxes, anything in there, you're reintroducing a threatened species into there.

So for me, maybe being more like outcome driven, that's, that seems like a better option.

[00:22:15] Hamish: I ask a bit of a loaded question and, and maybe just to sort of dive into the reasons why you would want to do this. Like, why would I want biodiversity? Well, like, what's the point? Like, , why would I just not want like a nice manicured lawn on my house? Like, what's the value that biodiversity has?

[00:22:32] Marnie: Biodiversity is a very, very complex topic. Which I'm discovering when you're just talking about carbon and it's easy to measure. Biodiversity is so complicated and localized. But it's It's important to life. If without any biodiversity, there's no humans, there's no food systems, there's no business.

It's linked to everything that we do. So, stop mowing your lawn and grow some wild native

, grass.

[00:22:59] Hamish: don't,

[00:22:59] Matthew: just want to, Jump into the photography side of things. so I know, I Know the one big thing in photography, , is this whole licensing of photos things, and it's super confusing and, topical at the moment.

Can you talk us through that? Like, if I get you to shoot a photo, you own the photo. That's correct.

[00:23:17] Marnie: I own the copyright. It is very confusing, and I think 99 percent of my job as a photographer is educating clients on what licensing is. But It's basically because photography and your deliverables as a digital file is intellectual property rather than a physical object like a house. So that means that copyright law applies to that deliverable.

And the law just basically say, says that the photographer always retains the copyright unless you agree that at the beginning, which is pretty rare. But what you're getting is a license to use the photos and you can specify what. that is um, no for profit business runs on a model where if 10 customers want your product or service they get it for free once one person has paid for it. an example I suppose is if a band releases an album And they get paid through sales already. They've gotten a bit of money from it, but then Apple comes on board and says, can we use your song for our commercial in the Super Bowl? It's not like they're not going to get paid for it, because they've already received money for that song before.

So they're paying for the usage of that song for that purpose.

[00:24:36] Matthew: that's actually the easiest way that I've ever had anyone explain it to me.

But then, so then like, hypothetically, like if you take a photo and then I have the license to say use it on my website and social media, then what if that then wants to get publicized in a bit of media? Like does that media then have to purchase out the copyright or the licensing of that photo as well?

[00:24:53] Marnie: That's a complicated question and case by case, but some photographers give away in their usage that you can use it for anything like that. I don't do that because I'm a bit different to other photographers, perhaps that I do a lot of the press and publication pitching for my clients.

So, you know, it's just to have one point of contact and know what that is. But. I think another

good example of social media use without permission, that's something you get asked all the time with people reposting things on Instagram, technically that's not okay

[00:25:26] Matthew: as long as you're tagged though, like if I like,

[00:25:29] Marnie: no, it's still infringing copyright law and a good example is just because you leave your car unlocked and the key's on the dashboard, it doesn't mean it's legal to steal the car.

[00:25:40] Matthew: So, so if I got like a photo of Hamish's project that you've shot and I'm like, hey check out Hamish's project, he's done an awesome job, Marnie shot this, that's not allowed. Is that sort of what you're getting at?

[00:25:52] Marnie: I think if you delve back into the Instagram legal terms, I think you're actually not meant to post anything that you don't own the copyright for. It was never intended as sharing other people's photos, it was intended to share your own. So I think, and I haven't looked at this, that technically, it's only meant to be your own photos.

[00:26:10] Matthew: And especially with you and you only shooting for what you consider sort of sustainable architecture. like, you don't want your photos being put in something that's, advocating for, I don't know, poor life choices or something like that. You want to, you want to control your narrative to some extent as well.

is that why you sort of do all the, publicising?

[00:26:30] Marnie: Well, it's more to get my clients that are doing good things to get their stories out in front of the world. I think that's really important to show that there's, you can have high performing buildings that still look pretty. And just because people haven't seen it before, they might not have considered it.

So if you get it in front of everyday people that might not be necessarily interested in sustainability, it just shows that there's a different

[00:26:55] Hamish: some, it's certainly something that I've been incredibly grateful for with my business money, with the projects that you've shot of ours, getting it in, magazines and , high profile Instagram accounts. thing that I do find quite curious is that you do have a environmental science background and when you did decide to switch to photography that you decided to shoot homes and architecture. So, why architecture and not nature?

[00:27:25] Marnie: Well, I did start off, again, being a generalist rather than a specialist in photography, and I shot food, gardens, interiors, fashion, all of these things. It was just that, I suppose, as I evolved, I got more interested in shooting architecture, climate change solutions, biodiversity. So, I've really niched down into those three general topics, It's what makes me the most passionate, which means my clients will get, get the best out of me.

[00:27:54] Matthew: Now, we we're almost outta time and I want to sort of start to wrap this up, but last, or this year actually, you came to the passive house conference with us. So, , I'm going to say that you were definitely the only photographer at that conference, and what sparked your interest to attend it and what did you learn?

[00:28:11] Marnie: the passive house is king number one.

[00:28:13] Matthew: Or Queen or Queen

[00:28:14] Marnie: Queen, we're the pinnacle of high performance homes and I love shooting them. I think maybe it's also the scientist in me that high performing or passive homes are the only ones that are really measurable, scientific and performance. And I just think it's time to ensure we're building to the highest energy efficient standards possible. and that those standards are verified during the building process so that homeowners can be assured of the quality of their homes at the end of the process. I think also personal interest that my husband and I will build one soon when we find this land. We're currently in an 1890s leaky cottage.

I did get someone to do a blower door test here which didn't really work because there were so many holes.

[00:29:00] Matthew: Was it Drew

[00:29:01] Marnie: No. The Good Buddies at Outlier, Anthony at Outlier came and did it and it was the first one I'd seen done but I don't know if it was a bit pointless in this house but the next one will be the most high performing

[00:29:15] Matthew: What was your result?

[00:29:17] Marnie: Well, that was in the 40s

[00:29:18] Hamish: You couldn't

[00:29:19] Marnie: wasn't accurate because it was,

[00:29:22] Hamish: Yeah,

you know

what would be interesting, and this is probably the, the passive house nerds in us, I guess, knowing how the Blower Door works, I'd actually be interested to see what volume was going through the Blower Door, that, because we, we've done a Blower Door in a home that we couldn't get,

[00:29:35] Matthew: cubic

[00:29:36] Hamish: um, pressure on, and I guess we just back of the envelope kind of stuff, figured it out, and it's like an astronomical astronomical figure.

Marnie, we're going to wrap it up. , thank you so much for coming on. I personally, I think what you're doing is absolutely incredible and it's an absolute joy, , having you shoot our sites and then seeing them in newspapers and books and, uh, on high profile Instagram pages. , if there are people out there listening who want to get in contact with you, what's the best way that they can do that?

[00:30:07] Marnie: yeah, website, MarnieHorson. com. au Instagram Marnie

[00:30:13] Hamish: Hey, Marnie, you also do a pretty awesome, newsletter, that comes out, every two weeks or so.

[00:30:19] Marnie: Yeah, so newsletter is just little three short pieces two weeks just on things that interest me mostly around business, sustainability, efficiency, architecture, biodiversity. So.

[00:30:33] Matthew: just a therapeutic thing for you to do, you just put some words together. I don't know, relaxes you.

[00:30:38] Marnie: Or Marketing Monday, freak out because I haven't started and have to do it that day. And, and then say I've got to do my Instagram posts for the fortnight as well. And then

[00:30:46] Hamish: like hand, hand, on heart. Hand on heart, it's

[00:30:49] Matthew: Just get into AI.

[00:30:50] Hamish: newsletter that hits my inbox that I read. So it does have, , some amazing information out there. , Marni, thank you so much for giving up your Friday afternoon, to come and chat with us. I

look forward to seeing you on our next shoot.

[00:31:02] Marnie: Thanks for having

me.

[00:31:03] Matthew: thank you very much. We, um, really appreciate you coming on.