1 00:00:52,912 --> 00:00:53,652 Foreign. 2 00:00:59,872 --> 00:01:04,744 Okay, coming at you. We're recording. Ray, Dan, ready to go. 3 00:01:04,848 --> 00:01:08,920 All right. Whether it's Christian worship, Taylor Swift, 4 00:01:09,016 --> 00:01:13,544 twenty one Pilots, or Far side Beck, or Remy Wolf, we're here to 5 00:01:13,568 --> 00:01:17,256 discuss the music we love and enjoy. Welcome to another episode 6 00:01:17,304 --> 00:01:22,672 of Some Joyful Noises, a member of the Anazzow Network, and 7 00:01:22,712 --> 00:01:26,336 I'm here with Joshua Noel, the founder and brainchild of Some Joyful 8 00:01:26,384 --> 00:01:30,688 Noises. I'm Will Rose, one of the hosts of Systematic Ecology, 9 00:01:30,800 --> 00:01:35,408 occasionally on Some Joyful Noises and some other podcasts in 10 00:01:35,480 --> 00:01:38,992 the Annazow Network. And we're here with a special guest, someone 11 00:01:39,032 --> 00:01:42,640 that I've put a lot of hours in my earbuds and glad that we've 12 00:01:42,656 --> 00:01:46,064 gotten to know through Tripp and through Theology Beer Camp, because 13 00:01:46,088 --> 00:01:49,076 we're coming to you live from the Allerge Beer Camp. Dan Coke. 14 00:01:49,124 --> 00:01:52,484 Dan, how are you doing, man? How you feeling today on day two. 15 00:01:52,508 --> 00:01:58,804 Of the camp, Live and direct. Yes, I'm feeling good. First night 16 00:01:58,828 --> 00:02:02,740 I got awful, awful sleep, but I sort of powered through the first, 17 00:02:02,796 --> 00:02:06,244 you know, half a day and night, second half of the day, whatever 18 00:02:06,308 --> 00:02:11,524 of what we got going. And today, last night I got really good 19 00:02:11,548 --> 00:02:14,116 sleep. So today I'm like cooking with gas. 20 00:02:14,244 --> 00:02:14,952 Nice. 21 00:02:15,292 --> 00:02:19,046 Had a really fun session. That'll be on. Do you have permission 22 00:02:19,094 --> 00:02:22,486 feed at some point. And I'm just hanging. I'm hanging for the 23 00:02:22,494 --> 00:02:25,094 rest of the night, ready to talk tunes. 24 00:02:25,238 --> 00:02:28,790 We're talking tunes. And I. Yeah. Dan is the host of. You have. 25 00:02:28,926 --> 00:02:32,038 You're talking to. Which is another good name for a podcast, 26 00:02:32,070 --> 00:02:34,518 but we can integrate it. That one works. 27 00:02:34,550 --> 00:02:35,030 But. 28 00:02:35,166 --> 00:02:37,670 But Dan. Yeah, Good Vibrations. Very good. 29 00:02:37,726 --> 00:02:40,246 I'm feeling some good music podcast called Pretty Good Vibrations 30 00:02:40,294 --> 00:02:41,990 that's probably a bit more relevant here. 31 00:02:42,046 --> 00:02:44,630 And. And that's kind of. And it's part of. Part of why Dana's 32 00:02:44,646 --> 00:02:47,158 here. I. I'll share that. Like, I have a lot of hours listening. 33 00:02:47,190 --> 00:02:50,896 You have permission, and I have his intro to. You have permission 34 00:02:50,944 --> 00:02:53,024 that you don't do much anymore. You different, right? Like 35 00:02:53,048 --> 00:02:54,832 the original. The original intro. 36 00:02:54,912 --> 00:02:56,224 Yeah, the long, long one. 37 00:02:56,248 --> 00:03:01,376 Yeah, the long one. I would. I would occasionally play for my confirmation 38 00:03:01,424 --> 00:03:04,992 class just to kind of share the kind of posture we have to faith, 39 00:03:05,072 --> 00:03:08,448 which is you have permission to take the modern world and Christian 40 00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:12,512 faith seriously. You can ask good questions. We hope not to give 41 00:03:12,552 --> 00:03:16,930 terrible answers. And on a youth retreat, we. We usually show 42 00:03:16,986 --> 00:03:20,258 like, you know, a movie of some sort. Maybe there's some religious 43 00:03:20,370 --> 00:03:23,346 themes in it. We have them tease it out and talk about it. And. 44 00:03:23,434 --> 00:03:28,022 And yeah, Braveheart that was my Star wars. Definitely. 45 00:03:31,082 --> 00:03:34,834 My. In the 90s in American youth groups with the boys. It was 46 00:03:34,858 --> 00:03:36,626 Braveheart season. My dudes. 47 00:03:36,754 --> 00:03:38,690 Remember the Titans? No, no, no, no. 48 00:03:38,746 --> 00:03:39,502 We would. 49 00:03:39,882 --> 00:03:40,434 Okay. 50 00:03:40,498 --> 00:03:44,176 But it was. But somehow William Wallace got us to the gospel. 51 00:03:44,224 --> 00:03:45,504 I don't know how we got there. Yeah. 52 00:03:45,568 --> 00:03:47,664 Sacrifice, Freedom. The screaming of freedom. 53 00:03:47,728 --> 00:03:48,944 This was wild at heart. 54 00:03:49,048 --> 00:03:49,376 Yeah. 55 00:03:49,424 --> 00:03:54,752 Era sacred romance. Era Erwin McManus's early career. Barbarian 56 00:03:54,832 --> 00:03:59,280 way, man. Well, I try not to throw up in my mouth. 57 00:03:59,376 --> 00:04:04,640 I. So we. I played the intro to. To your podcast way at the beginning 58 00:04:04,656 --> 00:04:06,544 of the retreat. We went all day, by the way. 59 00:04:06,568 --> 00:04:07,536 That's very sweet. I appreciate it. 60 00:04:07,544 --> 00:04:10,934 Yeah, yeah, yeah. And. And we went. We went all day. Then the next 61 00:04:10,958 --> 00:04:13,814 day we showed the movie. And then in the movie, there was a particular 62 00:04:13,998 --> 00:04:17,254 religious leader pastor who was being a dick and who was not 63 00:04:17,278 --> 00:04:20,246 doing good things to. And at the end of the movie, I was like, 64 00:04:20,254 --> 00:04:25,478 what? What was going on here? And Canon screamed out. He gave bad 65 00:04:25,550 --> 00:04:29,318 answers to good questions. And I went, yes, Canon, you're paying 66 00:04:29,350 --> 00:04:32,454 attention. I'm so proud of you. Training, which is training 67 00:04:32,518 --> 00:04:35,814 material. So it's curriculum. Curriculum. But we are. 68 00:04:35,918 --> 00:04:36,454 Yeah, yeah. 69 00:04:36,518 --> 00:04:39,638 Shared language. And then we go, oh, yeah, that's what I'm talking 70 00:04:39,670 --> 00:04:44,242 about. That's one thing that I. Attempting to do to provide for 71 00:04:44,282 --> 00:04:44,530 people. 72 00:04:44,586 --> 00:04:47,234 Yeah, yeah. And you do a good job. And I look up to that a lot. 73 00:04:47,338 --> 00:04:50,050 So you said earlier that I was the brainchild. That's only, like, 74 00:04:50,106 --> 00:04:50,834 partially true. 75 00:04:50,898 --> 00:04:51,186 Okay. 76 00:04:51,234 --> 00:04:51,650 This one. 77 00:04:51,706 --> 00:04:52,210 Okay. 78 00:04:52,306 --> 00:04:56,022 I. As you know, because it's also sort of what happened with sg. 79 00:04:57,162 --> 00:04:58,786 Some people may not know what he. 80 00:04:58,794 --> 00:05:05,074 Calls okay on the zombie podcast network, but I get this thing 81 00:05:05,098 --> 00:05:06,770 where, like, I really want something to exist. 82 00:05:06,866 --> 00:05:07,086 And. 83 00:05:07,114 --> 00:05:09,094 And sometimes I just get aggravated enough that I make it 84 00:05:09,118 --> 00:05:09,542 exist. 85 00:05:09,622 --> 00:05:10,998 That's right. You manifest it. 86 00:05:11,070 --> 00:05:14,054 What happened was like, Brandon Knight, also been a part 87 00:05:14,078 --> 00:05:16,614 of, like, some Joeyful Noises, occasionally has some really great 88 00:05:16,638 --> 00:05:18,550 ideas for, like, music podcasts he wants to do. And I'm 89 00:05:18,566 --> 00:05:20,774 like, okay, yeah, you're on the network. Just. Just create the 90 00:05:20,798 --> 00:05:23,526 show. He's like, I might one day. And he said that for, like, 91 00:05:23,534 --> 00:05:25,894 about a year. I love you, Brandon, and I understand your life 92 00:05:25,918 --> 00:05:29,398 is busy and I'm not trying to peer pressure you. But then Matthew 93 00:05:29,430 --> 00:05:32,454 Winter had some ideas and I'm like, okay, cool, so let's make it 94 00:05:32,478 --> 00:05:35,304 like, why don't we have a music podcast already? And then eventually 95 00:05:35,368 --> 00:05:37,704 I was just like, you know what? We're just going to create 96 00:05:37,728 --> 00:05:40,888 a show with, like, no format schedule or anything. And whenever 97 00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:44,424 you guys Want to like do those shows you're doing, just like make 98 00:05:44,448 --> 00:05:46,104 an episode and we'll just throw it on this so that. 99 00:05:46,128 --> 00:05:50,184 So it's a show that has no rhyme reason was it no rhyme, no 100 00:05:50,208 --> 00:05:51,320 rhythm, no reason. 101 00:05:51,376 --> 00:05:53,880 I mean this podcast with no rhyme for them and no reason. 102 00:05:53,936 --> 00:05:57,336 That's it. That's the tagline. Anybody can. No host, no schedule, 103 00:05:57,384 --> 00:06:00,312 just hop on. And so we're. We're at the Alice Beer camp where 104 00:06:00,352 --> 00:06:03,146 there's the intersection of theology, philosophy, the things 105 00:06:03,154 --> 00:06:07,450 we geek out on. Music, a part of a community, a lot of the deconstructing 106 00:06:07,546 --> 00:06:10,794 community. People who, who don't feel welcomed in a church or 107 00:06:10,818 --> 00:06:14,618 part of a church but still resonate with the big questions around 108 00:06:14,690 --> 00:06:17,626 faith, around science, around the modern world. Trip has created 109 00:06:17,674 --> 00:06:21,818 community where, where they can gather not just in the earbuds 110 00:06:21,850 --> 00:06:24,442 and listen to people talk deep stuff and big questions, but also 111 00:06:24,482 --> 00:06:27,370 come together and, and share time with each other. And so that's 112 00:06:27,386 --> 00:06:30,618 what we're. We're here doing. And part of this podcast, some dwarf 113 00:06:30,650 --> 00:06:34,490 noises is acknowledging that music creates community, shapes community, 114 00:06:34,546 --> 00:06:38,698 it shapes identity. And so that's why we have Dan here who is 115 00:06:38,850 --> 00:06:40,746 getting. You're close. 116 00:06:40,834 --> 00:06:44,778 Become a psychologist about a year from now. I should be a licensed 117 00:06:44,810 --> 00:06:45,306 psychologist. 118 00:06:45,354 --> 00:06:46,746 Yeah, licensed psychologist. 119 00:06:46,794 --> 00:06:48,330 Final year of internship and then study. 120 00:06:48,386 --> 00:06:51,514 And take a test and was a professional musician. Still part 121 00:06:51,538 --> 00:06:55,322 of your vacation is creating music content for others and those 122 00:06:55,362 --> 00:06:55,802 kind of things. 123 00:06:55,842 --> 00:06:59,818 So you a tiny bit of that still. But mostly it's worth. Mostly 124 00:06:59,850 --> 00:07:02,804 that's over. But yeah, I was toured in a band called Sherwood 125 00:07:02,868 --> 00:07:07,380 for eight years. Put out records from 2004 till when we broke 126 00:07:07,396 --> 00:07:11,428 up in 2010. We did a 2016 record as well. I've had a couple 127 00:07:11,460 --> 00:07:14,612 other bands over the years. I did a project called Pacific Gold, 128 00:07:14,652 --> 00:07:20,404 originally Wayfarer and that was like rewritten hymns. And if 129 00:07:20,428 --> 00:07:23,444 you think that you'd really like that then you might really like 130 00:07:23,468 --> 00:07:27,486 it. From my perspective it was like a half successful experiment 131 00:07:27,534 --> 00:07:32,302 and a half failed experiment. It. Some things about it bug me but 132 00:07:32,422 --> 00:07:35,134 I do know a lot of people who really like those records. So I won't 133 00:07:35,198 --> 00:07:36,042 on my own. 134 00:07:36,822 --> 00:07:37,230 Right. 135 00:07:37,286 --> 00:07:42,622 And the last thing I did was a sampling based instrumental kind 136 00:07:42,662 --> 00:07:47,422 of like chill dance record under the moniker Swim Club. 137 00:07:47,462 --> 00:07:49,918 I did like that. That was good you let you shared that with folks 138 00:07:49,950 --> 00:07:50,814 here for all your. 139 00:07:50,838 --> 00:07:53,822 Patreons and that fits for me in like studying music. Like I have 140 00:07:53,862 --> 00:07:56,952 a playlist of instrumental but has some. 141 00:07:57,072 --> 00:07:58,840 I just had an idea nice vibes and. 142 00:07:58,896 --> 00:08:00,360 And stuff, you know, so maybe there's. 143 00:08:00,376 --> 00:08:03,464 Something on that record that I could use as an intro music to 144 00:08:03,488 --> 00:08:05,512 my podcast I'm gonna do. 145 00:08:05,552 --> 00:08:06,328 Really? Welcome to. 146 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:06,728 Okay. 147 00:08:06,760 --> 00:08:07,352 I would love that. 148 00:08:07,392 --> 00:08:09,976 All right, I'm gonna listen. So. So my ideas. I'm gonna have a 149 00:08:09,984 --> 00:08:11,768 podcast called we're gonna laugh about this later about sharing 150 00:08:11,800 --> 00:08:13,704 stories that weren't funny at the time, but later on we look back 151 00:08:13,728 --> 00:08:18,408 and laugh on it. And. And. And yeah, we all have them. Well, that's 152 00:08:18,440 --> 00:08:21,314 very. Like my bear encounter this summer. It was terrifying, but 153 00:08:21,338 --> 00:08:23,666 now I look back and laugh at it. Let's not become. 154 00:08:23,754 --> 00:08:24,802 We're going to laugh about this later. 155 00:08:24,842 --> 00:08:28,274 Episode I want to podcast called yes, Regrets. 156 00:08:28,338 --> 00:08:29,394 Huh. Okay. 157 00:08:29,458 --> 00:08:34,482 What Then he just. Everybody come tell their worst regret and 158 00:08:34,602 --> 00:08:38,322 maybe people will, like, laugh some. Some schadenfreude and then 159 00:08:38,362 --> 00:08:39,970 also learn a little bit and maybe not make. 160 00:08:40,026 --> 00:08:42,258 That's the idea of we're gonna laugh. 161 00:08:42,450 --> 00:08:45,330 There's a functional problem with mine, which is people generally 162 00:08:45,346 --> 00:08:46,664 don't want to talk about that. 163 00:08:46,818 --> 00:08:49,052 Yeah. I wanted to be trying to figure. 164 00:08:49,052 --> 00:08:50,300 Out what mine is now. 165 00:08:50,436 --> 00:08:51,260 That's a good question. 166 00:08:51,316 --> 00:08:54,396 Well, we're gonna laugh about this later is. I think, you know, 167 00:08:54,404 --> 00:08:56,316 I'll probably have church members listen to it, so it'll be 168 00:08:56,324 --> 00:08:59,020 PG13. So I don't like them, their air, their dirty laundry. But 169 00:08:59,076 --> 00:09:02,556 we all have those stories. Like, yeah. At the time, not funny, 170 00:09:02,684 --> 00:09:05,644 but we're allowed. So anyway, we're gonna talk. We're gonna have 171 00:09:05,668 --> 00:09:06,348 some theme. Sean. 172 00:09:06,380 --> 00:09:06,992 Cool. 173 00:09:07,652 --> 00:09:11,068 Yeah. And so part of this also to talk about music community and 174 00:09:11,140 --> 00:09:11,980 your experience with that. 175 00:09:12,036 --> 00:09:14,316 Oh, I forgot to say there was a commercial composer. That's what 176 00:09:14,324 --> 00:09:14,668 you were. 177 00:09:14,740 --> 00:09:16,540 Commercial composer for about 10 years. 178 00:09:16,596 --> 00:09:17,148 12 years. 179 00:09:17,220 --> 00:09:17,788 Which is cool. 180 00:09:17,820 --> 00:09:21,512 WR. Primarily used in advertisements, couple documentaries, 181 00:09:21,592 --> 00:09:25,768 like, you know, indie films and stuff, but mostly ads. And that's. 182 00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:28,664 And then that I worked my way through grad school now to become 183 00:09:28,688 --> 00:09:30,136 a psychologist doing that. 184 00:09:30,304 --> 00:09:33,128 So talking about music now, is there something that you're geeking 185 00:09:33,160 --> 00:09:37,192 out on with music or in your earbuds or something right now? Something 186 00:09:37,232 --> 00:09:39,736 you're like, I'm really hyped about this particular band. 187 00:09:39,864 --> 00:09:40,440 Here's the problem. 188 00:09:40,496 --> 00:09:40,776 Yeah. 189 00:09:40,824 --> 00:09:45,758 Is it's not a good fit. Maybe for your listening audience. I don't 190 00:09:45,790 --> 00:09:49,758 know. I. I would be curious to hear. Okay. But if you think I'm 191 00:09:49,790 --> 00:09:51,742 right, we can. We don't have to linger here. 192 00:09:51,782 --> 00:09:52,078 Okay. 193 00:09:52,110 --> 00:09:52,414 Yeah. 194 00:09:52,478 --> 00:09:57,678 But the band that I am just having a little mania over, Even 195 00:09:57,750 --> 00:09:58,734 the Misfits. 196 00:09:58,878 --> 00:09:59,774 Ah, sweet. 197 00:09:59,838 --> 00:10:00,030 Yeah. 198 00:10:00,046 --> 00:10:03,806 Yeah. I grew up skating and surfing. Yes. Yeah, I know. The Misfits. 199 00:10:03,854 --> 00:10:04,430 Well, but. 200 00:10:04,486 --> 00:10:10,078 So I didn't. I didn't absorb that band when I was getting into 201 00:10:10,150 --> 00:10:12,942 old punk. So when I was in high school, I got into punk after 202 00:10:12,982 --> 00:10:18,096 I was into Scott. And in that era, that's like Green Day, Rancid, 203 00:10:18,144 --> 00:10:22,480 no Effects, like MXPX and the Christian Scene, Slick Shoes. But 204 00:10:22,536 --> 00:10:25,184 a lot of those bands were really good at pointing back to the 205 00:10:25,208 --> 00:10:29,248 earlier bands. And punk rock is not that big of a genre, so it's 206 00:10:29,280 --> 00:10:33,344 not that hard to go back and do a little bit of work and, like, 207 00:10:33,448 --> 00:10:39,616 roughly understand how it got from 1976 to 1996. It's not like, 208 00:10:39,704 --> 00:10:43,008 it's not insurmountable for a teenager. So I did that, and I fell 209 00:10:43,040 --> 00:10:48,332 in love with the Clash and I fell in love the Ramones. Yeah, and 210 00:10:48,372 --> 00:10:51,804 I had a band. And I had a. I had two bands in college that were 211 00:10:51,828 --> 00:10:57,196 Ramones themed. We had a silly band, like a humor, like, joke songs 212 00:10:57,324 --> 00:11:04,732 called the Romes. We had a song Lord of the Gnome, Weird Alib, 213 00:11:04,892 --> 00:11:12,810 Fellowship of the Gnome, and. And, like. And then we had a cover 214 00:11:12,866 --> 00:11:15,434 band that we did only one practice, but it were actual Ramones 215 00:11:15,498 --> 00:11:18,746 cover band, which led to Sherwood. Anyway, so ask a story 216 00:11:18,834 --> 00:11:23,898 that I. But I missed the Misfits because I didn't have, like. 217 00:11:23,970 --> 00:11:28,074 I didn't grow up watching John Carpenter films, like horror, like, 218 00:11:28,098 --> 00:11:29,162 B movies. 219 00:11:29,322 --> 00:11:29,898 We didn't. 220 00:11:29,930 --> 00:11:32,154 We weren't like a big Halloween house, you know, you were 221 00:11:32,178 --> 00:11:36,266 a little bit afraid of that stuff as well. And so probably in 222 00:11:36,274 --> 00:11:39,018 that, at that age, I thought that that stuff was, like, quite 223 00:11:39,050 --> 00:11:43,552 real and probably quite literal. And so something like Danzig 224 00:11:43,632 --> 00:11:51,152 singing about killing babies, I was not capable at that time of 225 00:11:51,192 --> 00:11:55,472 recognizing something that's campy, that is winking, that is, 226 00:11:55,512 --> 00:12:00,912 like, doing a bit on old American culture and 1940s movies. 227 00:12:00,992 --> 00:12:04,784 And, like, you know, like, I just didn't have that. So I just 228 00:12:04,808 --> 00:12:06,768 thought it was serious. And I was like, well, this is probably 229 00:12:06,800 --> 00:12:10,698 evil. And then I just kind of missed it for a while. And the recording 230 00:12:10,730 --> 00:12:14,394 quality on Misfits Records is. I actually kind of love it, but it's 231 00:12:14,458 --> 00:12:18,282 not. It's not, like, raw, big and clear and pleasing when you first 232 00:12:18,322 --> 00:12:19,066 hear it. 233 00:12:19,234 --> 00:12:22,938 And so even it's recording this punk human hell, they recorded 234 00:12:22,970 --> 00:12:23,594 it. 235 00:12:23,778 --> 00:12:26,778 And honestly, it's a lot like Velvet Underground recording techniques 236 00:12:26,810 --> 00:12:29,930 and. And dancing was into Velvet Underground. And so it's actually 237 00:12:29,986 --> 00:12:32,234 really more. It's so fascinating. I could geek out on 238 00:12:32,258 --> 00:12:32,426 it a. 239 00:12:32,434 --> 00:12:33,610 Lot, but, like, yeah, it was fun. 240 00:12:33,666 --> 00:12:38,952 So I'm just, like, neck deep in Misfits mania. Right now and cool. 241 00:12:39,292 --> 00:12:42,500 Having so much fun and like starting to worry a little bit about 242 00:12:42,636 --> 00:12:43,684 how long it's going on. 243 00:12:43,708 --> 00:12:46,820 It's funny because there are some there you. You catch ear or 244 00:12:46,876 --> 00:12:49,812 you're turned on to a band you. You knew about or adjacent to 245 00:12:49,852 --> 00:12:53,236 and then you, you really start listening to it a lot. You get it 246 00:12:53,244 --> 00:12:54,964 and then you're like, okay, I'm burned out. But then you come 247 00:12:54,988 --> 00:12:57,748 back to. Or whatever. Like music has that way of either sticking 248 00:12:57,780 --> 00:13:00,692 with you for long term or you just have those phases and things. 249 00:13:00,732 --> 00:13:05,104 For me, I, I like it that Instagram now you can put music to 250 00:13:05,128 --> 00:13:08,800 post and those kind of things. And so I follow a lot of, you know, 251 00:13:08,856 --> 00:13:12,240 surfers surfing, that kind of stuff. And so when, when these surfers 252 00:13:12,256 --> 00:13:15,680 self promote and put their clips on Instagram of whatever session 253 00:13:15,696 --> 00:13:18,384 they had, they'll put a, a song to it and just. 254 00:13:18,408 --> 00:13:19,728 Like a rad old surf video. 255 00:13:19,800 --> 00:13:22,960 Like a rad old surf video. Like, I used to love those surf videos 256 00:13:22,976 --> 00:13:24,944 or surf movies that come out with a soundtrack. 257 00:13:25,088 --> 00:13:26,112 Oh yeah, yeah. 258 00:13:26,272 --> 00:13:29,440 But now they like curate their own content through Instagram. There's 259 00:13:29,456 --> 00:13:33,398 different videos and stuff there. But I overheard somebody posted 260 00:13:33,430 --> 00:13:38,086 and they used far side, the 90s rap band, as one of theirs. And 261 00:13:38,094 --> 00:13:40,774 I've been going a deep dive into Far side and I even went to 262 00:13:40,798 --> 00:13:44,918 charge. I want, I want this as my intro music. He's like, you probably 263 00:13:44,950 --> 00:13:47,362 can't conversion. You probably have to pay a lot for that. I'm like, 264 00:13:47,662 --> 00:13:51,398 okay, or just do it and see if they catch me. But that's. That's 265 00:13:51,430 --> 00:13:54,918 from Too A Joshua. What about you? What's like something that doesn't 266 00:13:54,950 --> 00:13:56,082 need your buzz right now. 267 00:13:56,952 --> 00:13:59,568 A little strange. I talked about this on, on another episode 268 00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:03,344 of the show, actually. But this band I really like, the Velveteers, 269 00:14:03,408 --> 00:14:05,856 that I met them for, I was introduced to them when I went to 270 00:14:05,864 --> 00:14:08,576 a Greater Van Fleet concert. They were the opener. I was kind 271 00:14:08,584 --> 00:14:10,800 of drugged out for my wife. I don't care about where to go. 272 00:14:10,856 --> 00:14:13,696 There's like two or three on the trip. 273 00:14:13,824 --> 00:14:15,248 A lot of the stuff I'm like, I don't. 274 00:14:15,280 --> 00:14:15,568 This. 275 00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:19,008 I don't get the hype, but like some. There's a few like Broken Bells 276 00:14:19,040 --> 00:14:21,136 I listen to at least once a week. I think that's a fantastic 277 00:14:21,184 --> 00:14:25,576 song. Okay, but the thing with the Velvet Tears, I loved them. I 278 00:14:25,584 --> 00:14:29,768 was obsessed. But they have like 12 songs. Like I'm exaggerating, 279 00:14:29,800 --> 00:14:32,200 but they like very few songs so far. They're like. Because they're 280 00:14:32,216 --> 00:14:37,336 a newer band, so like So I really burned myself on them quick. 281 00:14:37,504 --> 00:14:39,960 But a couple of weeks ago, they released a new song, and I've 282 00:14:39,976 --> 00:14:42,328 been kind of listening to that on repeat, and I'm going to burn 283 00:14:42,360 --> 00:14:45,128 myself out again. But, yeah, I'm digging it. 284 00:14:45,200 --> 00:14:45,592 Cool. 285 00:14:45,672 --> 00:14:48,488 Yeah, cool. They're like an indie rock band, but the new song, 286 00:14:48,520 --> 00:14:50,888 they kind of, like, decided that they were just going to fuse 287 00:14:50,920 --> 00:14:52,712 some. Some funk in there and, like, this is. 288 00:14:52,752 --> 00:14:54,888 This is great. Sweet. 289 00:14:54,920 --> 00:14:57,224 Dan, you. You share a little bit of kind of, like, as a kid in 290 00:14:57,248 --> 00:14:59,672 your upbringing and kind of the evangelical conservative. 291 00:14:59,752 --> 00:15:00,056 Yeah. 292 00:15:00,104 --> 00:15:03,384 But in terms of what led you, it was there a particular band when 293 00:15:03,408 --> 00:15:06,344 you were younger that you connected to that turned you on to 294 00:15:06,368 --> 00:15:09,768 becoming musician or to a band that led you to Sheerwood? Like, 295 00:15:09,840 --> 00:15:13,064 was there something that you remember as a kid that you're like, 296 00:15:13,248 --> 00:15:17,426 I like this music. I want to do this. I want music to be part 297 00:15:17,434 --> 00:15:18,742 of my life, a vocation. 298 00:15:19,402 --> 00:15:22,642 Yeah. I mean, it would be punk. And. And I'm not the first 299 00:15:22,682 --> 00:15:25,826 person to say this, like, in. In any number of, like, the myriad 300 00:15:25,874 --> 00:15:30,946 documentaries you can watch about, you know, Britain or. Or California 301 00:15:30,994 --> 00:15:37,378 or whatever in those early years, but punk was the clearest. 302 00:15:37,490 --> 00:15:41,810 It was the most accessible form of music for the least amount 303 00:15:41,826 --> 00:15:46,898 of musical talent. You had to have a guy who could play the drums 304 00:15:46,930 --> 00:15:51,378 pretty fast, and then you could turn the distortion up and 305 00:15:51,450 --> 00:15:52,754 basically fake it till you make it. 306 00:15:52,778 --> 00:15:53,186 Yeah, yeah. 307 00:15:53,234 --> 00:16:00,514 Everywhere else, you know, and that if you go. If you get too good, 308 00:16:00,618 --> 00:16:04,702 like, you actually do lose something with genres like that. 309 00:16:05,162 --> 00:16:10,592 And so I was 14 when I joined my first punk band. And I. 310 00:16:10,632 --> 00:16:11,536 What was the name of that band? 311 00:16:11,584 --> 00:16:12,960 It was called Permanent Holiday. 312 00:16:13,056 --> 00:16:13,732 Nice. 313 00:16:15,672 --> 00:16:20,944 Yeah. And. And so I had been playing drums for maybe two years 314 00:16:20,968 --> 00:16:23,424 or something, maybe three years, and I was good enough to be 315 00:16:23,448 --> 00:16:28,048 in a local band and be a drummer. And then in. I got kicked 316 00:16:28,080 --> 00:16:31,120 out of that bed because I didn't load the gear often enough. 317 00:16:31,176 --> 00:16:32,692 It's so funny. 318 00:16:33,272 --> 00:16:34,148 Good teenager. 319 00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:39,084 And then. Yeah, it's a real character flaw, but, yeah, and then 320 00:16:39,188 --> 00:16:43,084 I was in a band with my friends that they started, and I 321 00:16:43,108 --> 00:16:47,372 joined pretty early and sort of became the singer, songwriter, 322 00:16:47,532 --> 00:16:50,876 and, you know, kind of colonized the thing that they had 323 00:16:50,884 --> 00:16:56,412 started, but we were called Ignorant Youth. And I do think it's, 324 00:16:56,492 --> 00:16:58,716 you know. So it wouldn't have been any one band in particular, 325 00:16:58,804 --> 00:17:05,164 I don't think. I think it was a number of those bands. And I think 326 00:17:05,188 --> 00:17:09,500 what happened is it's a developmental timing. So I understand 327 00:17:09,636 --> 00:17:13,836 music pretty mathematically, and I write music pretty mathematically. 328 00:17:13,964 --> 00:17:19,196 And I think that there was a sort of level of math that I developmentally 329 00:17:19,244 --> 00:17:24,556 got to. And then I was able to write songs, so I was able to apply 330 00:17:24,604 --> 00:17:29,620 the math. My own. My own. And it was super derivative. And of course, 331 00:17:29,676 --> 00:17:32,788 like, I'm actually just imbibing these chord progressions 332 00:17:32,820 --> 00:17:35,492 and these melodies, and I'm just very slightly changing them 333 00:17:35,532 --> 00:17:37,844 and whatever. At the beginning, you're doing a lot of 334 00:17:37,868 --> 00:17:42,004 mimicking. But punk was a very smooth ramp because it was like, 335 00:17:42,028 --> 00:17:43,812 well, I mean, he's turning this distortion up. It's like power 336 00:17:43,852 --> 00:17:46,340 chords could literally learn how to do it in a couple days. 337 00:17:46,476 --> 00:17:48,548 And most people come to those shows, they're just kind of like, 338 00:17:48,620 --> 00:17:51,428 cool, go loud, go punk. They're not listening to the nuance 339 00:17:51,460 --> 00:17:52,036 in the music. 340 00:17:52,124 --> 00:17:54,998 Especially at a local show. Yeah, it's really about like, hey, 341 00:17:55,030 --> 00:17:57,766 can we, like, jump around and, like, you know, can we get some of 342 00:17:57,774 --> 00:17:58,470 this energy? 343 00:17:58,606 --> 00:17:59,110 Marsh pit? 344 00:17:59,126 --> 00:18:02,614 Yeah, yeah. In like, a positive way. And. Yeah, and so. 345 00:18:02,718 --> 00:18:07,270 And I love that about punk, and I think that's why that was first. 346 00:18:07,406 --> 00:18:07,862 Nice. 347 00:18:07,942 --> 00:18:09,142 It's kind of as designed. 348 00:18:09,222 --> 00:18:12,102 And I guess the progression of, like, bands like you. You start 349 00:18:12,142 --> 00:18:15,414 a band because you like a particular genre or band, and you 350 00:18:15,438 --> 00:18:18,134 kind of mimic that, and there comes a point when you become your 351 00:18:18,158 --> 00:18:21,702 own. But then when did the song writing creativity, with that 352 00:18:21,742 --> 00:18:25,678 process of your creative process of writing music, Wouldn't 353 00:18:25,710 --> 00:18:27,694 you know, this is something like I'm good at and I can make a 354 00:18:27,718 --> 00:18:30,286 living of this. I'm going to do this. I'm going to tour, I'm going 355 00:18:30,294 --> 00:18:32,734 to. We're going to write songs, create songs. It's one thing 356 00:18:32,758 --> 00:18:36,094 that I can listen to this song, say, I like this, but then. 357 00:18:36,278 --> 00:18:40,030 Or I can learn how to play this particular song. I like is another 358 00:18:40,086 --> 00:18:42,446 to like, I'm going to write my own. What? 359 00:18:42,534 --> 00:18:45,918 Yeah. So just for context, because most people probably don't 360 00:18:45,950 --> 00:18:47,294 know who Sherwood was, who. 361 00:18:47,318 --> 00:18:48,654 Are listening, but, yeah, yeah, we got. 362 00:18:48,678 --> 00:18:53,672 To, like, a medium level of emo success in the 2000s. Like, we 363 00:18:53,712 --> 00:18:59,320 sold about 75,000 records over three albums, and we played about 364 00:18:59,376 --> 00:19:05,768 800 shows. And we. We played Japan. We went to Europe three times. 365 00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:07,576 Like, and when you came to Chapel Hill, you're like, I think 366 00:19:07,584 --> 00:19:09,880 I've been here. Did I play? And I was like, did you play Cat's 367 00:19:09,896 --> 00:19:12,184 Cradle and Carbon? You're like, yeah, I play Cat's Cradle, 368 00:19:12,248 --> 00:19:16,168 Very famous place in North Carolina. Play Small shit Cat's Cradle. 369 00:19:16,280 --> 00:19:16,760 And it was. 370 00:19:16,816 --> 00:19:17,304 We did it. 371 00:19:17,328 --> 00:19:19,544 Like, the best way to say it, it was our Full time job, but we 372 00:19:19,568 --> 00:19:22,976 didn't save any money. You didn't have to have other jobs, but 373 00:19:23,064 --> 00:19:28,320 we literally left the band with no savings. And so that's, that's 374 00:19:28,336 --> 00:19:32,864 kind of what I'm referring to. And I didn't, I had no notion that 375 00:19:32,888 --> 00:19:38,592 I could be good enough to do that. But our singer Nate, he basically 376 00:19:38,672 --> 00:19:43,152 convinced me, he was like, we can do this. You are a good enough 377 00:19:43,192 --> 00:19:44,896 songwriter and I'm a good enough singer. 378 00:19:44,944 --> 00:19:45,872 And you were drums out there. 379 00:19:45,912 --> 00:19:49,196 And at that point, I was playing drums at the beginning and 380 00:19:49,364 --> 00:19:54,348 I was like, okay. And he, he was not a good enough singer yet. 381 00:19:54,500 --> 00:19:57,532 I was not a good enough songwriter yet. So he's wrong about 382 00:19:57,572 --> 00:20:00,876 that. Yeah, but he must. I don't even think he saw potential 383 00:20:00,924 --> 00:20:04,476 in me. I think he just wanted to be in a band and I was his friend 384 00:20:04,644 --> 00:20:08,924 and I was. And I was willing to try with him and I think that 385 00:20:08,948 --> 00:20:11,692 that's perfectly fine. Yeah, that's how. I think that's the real 386 00:20:11,732 --> 00:20:12,312 reason. 387 00:20:12,692 --> 00:20:13,292 Yeah. 388 00:20:13,372 --> 00:20:16,400 So I didn't know and so I didn't really find out until it got. 389 00:20:16,516 --> 00:20:22,600 And we had a very slow, gradual rise to that mid level point. 390 00:20:22,736 --> 00:20:25,304 So we did. We never had anything sort of overnight. It was 391 00:20:25,328 --> 00:20:30,824 like we, we printed our own EP and sold about 7,000 of them. And 392 00:20:30,848 --> 00:20:34,952 then we had a one album deal. They sold about 15,000. 393 00:20:35,072 --> 00:20:36,532 Age of the CD. 12. 394 00:20:36,832 --> 00:20:40,936 Yeah, CDs. Yeah, almost all CDs. And then at that point it was 395 00:20:40,944 --> 00:20:43,752 only CDs. And then we put another one out and that sold like 396 00:20:43,792 --> 00:20:48,248 40 and you know, like it. So it was like there wasn't like a big 397 00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:48,952 change. 398 00:20:49,072 --> 00:20:49,592 Right. 399 00:20:49,712 --> 00:20:54,728 So I guess I figured I was pretty good. I actually, you know, 400 00:20:54,800 --> 00:20:56,904 the probably truth is I probably thought I was better than 401 00:20:56,928 --> 00:20:59,112 I was for a while. 402 00:20:59,232 --> 00:21:02,520 For young adults sounds, you know, in a band. Yeah. 403 00:21:02,696 --> 00:21:08,520 But you know, people, you get those first local like friends who 404 00:21:08,656 --> 00:21:12,402 actually seem to really like the songs and are not just doing 405 00:21:12,442 --> 00:21:15,394 it because you're their friend. And that's like the first 406 00:21:15,418 --> 00:21:16,194 inkling of. 407 00:21:16,298 --> 00:21:18,114 Maybe, okay, maybe we got something here. 408 00:21:18,138 --> 00:21:21,154 And then I think there was like a, a kid I'd gone to high school 409 00:21:21,178 --> 00:21:24,626 with who's a couple years younger who was like, hey, you know, 410 00:21:24,634 --> 00:21:28,082 I got a copy of that EP you guys did. And I really like this 411 00:21:28,122 --> 00:21:32,562 song. And you know, it was only that song that was any good, 412 00:21:32,602 --> 00:21:36,296 but like, but that was. But that's enough if you get you one. 413 00:21:36,434 --> 00:21:39,036 And there was something good in there and I think we refined it 414 00:21:39,044 --> 00:21:41,868 later but like you get that those Little bits. And I think I'm 415 00:21:41,900 --> 00:21:44,508 egotistical enough and narcissistic enough that I didn't 416 00:21:44,540 --> 00:21:45,436 need a lot of that. 417 00:21:45,524 --> 00:21:45,772 Right. 418 00:21:45,812 --> 00:21:49,100 So I latched onto it, probably, and then it turned out 419 00:21:49,156 --> 00:21:52,764 that I was good enough to do it at a pretty decent level, but 420 00:21:52,788 --> 00:21:55,484 not good enough to do it at, like, a true success level. And I 421 00:21:55,508 --> 00:21:58,780 genuinely think that. I think. I think I'm not that good of a songwriter. 422 00:21:58,876 --> 00:22:00,732 I think I'm a pretty good songwriter. 423 00:22:00,812 --> 00:22:07,078 Being a songwriter, playing a band, does that shift how you listen 424 00:22:07,110 --> 00:22:09,718 to music? Now you listen because, like, as a preacher, I'll 425 00:22:09,750 --> 00:22:11,878 go, I feel like I'm the same preacher, but I'm not going to, let's 426 00:22:11,910 --> 00:22:13,894 hear somebody preach. I'm listening a different way than, like, 427 00:22:13,918 --> 00:22:16,562 other. I'm like, why don't they make this movie when I do this? 428 00:22:17,742 --> 00:22:20,678 Now, when you listen to music, you listen to misfits. When you're 429 00:22:20,710 --> 00:22:23,862 big, huge Beach Boys fan, but, like, you do, you listen to other 430 00:22:23,902 --> 00:22:26,774 music, you're like, yeah, I don't. I don't know what they did 431 00:22:26,798 --> 00:22:29,094 there. What. That was a choice or that was not a choice, or. 432 00:22:29,118 --> 00:22:30,998 Yeah, it's exactly the same. 433 00:22:31,070 --> 00:22:31,366 Yeah. 434 00:22:31,414 --> 00:22:39,146 And. But I think music is a more. It's more of an aesthetic experience 435 00:22:39,234 --> 00:22:40,954 than listening to a sermon. 436 00:22:41,018 --> 00:22:41,862 Right, Right. 437 00:22:42,242 --> 00:22:46,074 So I. I would imagine that the sermon thing is analogous to, like, 438 00:22:46,098 --> 00:22:48,266 an author. When they're reading other people's books. So 439 00:22:48,274 --> 00:22:50,138 they know how a book is put together. 440 00:22:50,210 --> 00:22:50,714 Structured. 441 00:22:50,778 --> 00:22:51,306 Yeah, structured. 442 00:22:51,354 --> 00:22:52,202 The point they're trying to make. 443 00:22:52,242 --> 00:22:55,994 So they know they see a lot more in it than I see because I've 444 00:22:56,018 --> 00:23:00,308 never written a book. So there's definitely that. Mostly, 445 00:23:00,340 --> 00:23:04,052 I think that that just heightens appreciation. I think there 446 00:23:04,092 --> 00:23:08,912 are. With a few exceptions, there are some mixes where I'm like, 447 00:23:09,372 --> 00:23:13,364 I know how easy it would have been to fix this problem. Why is 448 00:23:13,388 --> 00:23:13,572 there. 449 00:23:13,612 --> 00:23:16,148 As a podcast editor, you realize, dude, why is that? 450 00:23:16,220 --> 00:23:20,708 It's so much high end on the high hat. Like, it's distorting, 451 00:23:20,820 --> 00:23:21,172 you know? 452 00:23:21,212 --> 00:23:21,860 Yeah, yeah. 453 00:23:21,956 --> 00:23:24,884 Interesting things like that. So occasionally there are things 454 00:23:24,908 --> 00:23:27,674 that it's, like, really hard to listen to because it seems so 455 00:23:27,698 --> 00:23:32,954 avoidable. But mostly I would say it's like, oh, I love how they 456 00:23:32,978 --> 00:23:34,570 did that, you know, or something like that. 457 00:23:34,626 --> 00:23:37,706 That's. That's cool. We follow up there. I know where I want to 458 00:23:37,714 --> 00:23:40,426 go next, but let me think there. That sparked something for 459 00:23:40,434 --> 00:23:41,402 you, Joshua. 460 00:23:41,562 --> 00:23:44,522 I don't think you want to know what my brain went through. 461 00:23:44,562 --> 00:23:46,138 Okay. There you go now. Sure. 462 00:23:46,210 --> 00:23:46,778 Anyway. 463 00:23:46,890 --> 00:23:47,662 Okay. 464 00:23:48,242 --> 00:23:51,194 He mentioned that there was, like, he Said there was once all 465 00:23:51,218 --> 00:23:54,900 that was any good in my brain just goes, yeah, that one episode 466 00:23:54,916 --> 00:23:57,476 of Phineas and Ferb. And then my brain for a little bit just was 467 00:23:57,484 --> 00:23:59,700 like, get you, get you goo means that I love you. 468 00:23:59,756 --> 00:24:00,212 Yeah. 469 00:24:00,292 --> 00:24:01,972 That is not. That is not the vibe right now. 470 00:24:02,012 --> 00:24:04,484 I should stop. Well, where there's. Where there's album or. 471 00:24:04,508 --> 00:24:07,428 Yeah, there's tv, there's like shows you watch and there's like 472 00:24:07,500 --> 00:24:10,180 your favorite episode of the season, but you still like the whole 473 00:24:10,196 --> 00:24:12,244 show. And there's definitely artists that you get their album. 474 00:24:12,308 --> 00:24:14,212 You're like, man, I'm disappointed because there's only 475 00:24:14,252 --> 00:24:17,108 really two songs I vibe with. But like I'm a big fan of Elbow. 476 00:24:17,140 --> 00:24:20,036 Like they're. They put their, their music together and I love what 477 00:24:20,044 --> 00:24:22,532 they do. But then the last couple albums I like there's two 478 00:24:22,572 --> 00:24:24,996 songs. I really love the rest. I'm like, I kind of all sounds the 479 00:24:25,004 --> 00:24:26,224 same. I'm like, what? What's going on? 480 00:24:26,248 --> 00:24:28,912 I love Smash Mouth. And by that I mean those three songs are 481 00:24:28,952 --> 00:24:29,532 great. 482 00:24:29,832 --> 00:24:30,432 One of my. 483 00:24:30,472 --> 00:24:35,200 I have whole bands like that. I think it's fine. Breakfast at Tiffany's 484 00:24:35,216 --> 00:24:37,808 by Deep Blue something. I don't know any other Deep Blue something. 485 00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:38,464 That's fine. 486 00:24:38,528 --> 00:24:41,056 My idea is I think there should be a one Hit Wonder tour where 487 00:24:41,064 --> 00:24:44,384 you have 20 bands and they all come out and play their one Hit Wonder 488 00:24:44,448 --> 00:24:47,264 sounds like very economically. And then they just show up. 489 00:24:47,288 --> 00:24:48,012 No problem. 490 00:24:49,272 --> 00:24:53,014 I think we could pull it off. Let's try it. So. So moving to like 491 00:24:53,038 --> 00:24:57,510 your, Your new mood vocation of like psychology and thinking about 492 00:24:57,566 --> 00:25:00,486 music. And we talked about this. This podcast is in worship. 493 00:25:00,534 --> 00:25:03,286 There's a reason that hymns are spiritual technologies that we 494 00:25:03,294 --> 00:25:05,734 gather around communicating that we articulate our faith through 495 00:25:05,758 --> 00:25:06,086 it. 496 00:25:06,174 --> 00:25:06,774 Yeah. 497 00:25:06,918 --> 00:25:12,278 How do you see like the concert experience, the music experience, 498 00:25:12,350 --> 00:25:15,446 the gathering experience. How did music is a broad question. We 499 00:25:15,454 --> 00:25:18,136 could talk all night about this, but in terms of how do you 500 00:25:18,144 --> 00:25:21,176 see music shaping community? And then as a psychologist, how do 501 00:25:21,184 --> 00:25:26,872 you see music helping people shape identity, identity politics, 502 00:25:27,032 --> 00:25:31,576 who they connect with, all the, all those things. I think, I 503 00:25:31,584 --> 00:25:34,008 think that's big. What music. Someone was like, oh, like that band. 504 00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:37,128 Like music. Like to jam out. I like to get, you know, like to dance. 505 00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:41,000 But then there's. There's. It creates culture, it creates music. 506 00:25:41,056 --> 00:25:46,054 Is. Is also connected to a style, like a fashion style and an 507 00:25:46,078 --> 00:25:51,382 aesthetic and to. Depending on the genre. There's sort of, you know, 508 00:25:51,502 --> 00:25:56,454 more or less extreme of that. Like most. I would guess most like 509 00:25:56,478 --> 00:26:00,870 a lot of metal, real metal fans you know, they wear black and 510 00:26:00,926 --> 00:26:04,118 they have a. Not. I don't mean they're like goth walking through 511 00:26:04,190 --> 00:26:08,006 the mall, their hair. But I can tell when I meet dudes that I'm 512 00:26:08,014 --> 00:26:12,550 like, it's a metal dude that long. Yeah, that's. And. And you. 513 00:26:12,606 --> 00:26:14,886 You know, and then you could obviously marry like gutter punks 514 00:26:14,934 --> 00:26:17,254 and like, you know, there's like the sort of. Almost the clown 515 00:26:17,318 --> 00:26:18,374 version of it. 516 00:26:18,558 --> 00:26:18,902 Right. 517 00:26:18,942 --> 00:26:24,870 Or like ICP fans or whatever, you know, but there is something 518 00:26:24,926 --> 00:26:27,334 associated, you know, you associate top 40 with like, kind 519 00:26:27,358 --> 00:26:31,014 of high fashion and kind of, what's it. The prevailing looks of 520 00:26:31,038 --> 00:26:34,198 the day, country music. You know, you've got your cowboy boots 521 00:26:34,230 --> 00:26:37,796 and. And hats. You have different. You know, so that is actually, 522 00:26:37,884 --> 00:26:41,700 I think as a training psychologist, I think that that's 523 00:26:41,716 --> 00:26:47,668 actually a big part of what is so powerful about music in those 524 00:26:47,740 --> 00:26:51,364 particular developmental years when we are defining our own identity 525 00:26:51,428 --> 00:26:54,884 among options. And that's generally thought of as adolescence. 526 00:26:54,948 --> 00:26:55,588 Yeah, yeah. 527 00:26:55,700 --> 00:27:00,852 And so there's something going on there because it. I. I think that 528 00:27:00,972 --> 00:27:05,588 what drew me to punk was. Was not only musical, you know, it's. 529 00:27:05,620 --> 00:27:09,588 It was aesthetic too. I think I liked it. I. You mentioned surf 530 00:27:09,620 --> 00:27:12,324 videos. I think a lot about surf and skate videos from the 90s. 531 00:27:12,388 --> 00:27:12,756 Yeah. 532 00:27:12,804 --> 00:27:16,868 And like, you pop in that VHS or later a DVD and like, and it's, 533 00:27:16,900 --> 00:27:23,492 you know, it's a good riddance track and no effects track. And then. 534 00:27:23,612 --> 00:27:27,172 Whoa, who is that? Oh, that's the Clamps. Like, who are they? And. 535 00:27:27,292 --> 00:27:32,798 And like you discover, like, think about that. The act of sitting 536 00:27:32,830 --> 00:27:36,942 around with my buddies watching a skate video, that's not 537 00:27:36,982 --> 00:27:42,622 a identity neutral activity. It's all being. The music is coming 538 00:27:42,662 --> 00:27:47,998 in and confirming. It's like. It's like a brace, you know, it's 539 00:27:48,030 --> 00:27:51,646 like coming around and supporting the other identity formation 540 00:27:51,694 --> 00:27:56,496 that's already happening around visuals around. Maybe my buddy 541 00:27:56,544 --> 00:28:00,080 skateboards and I'd be AMX bike. We like that activity. So we're 542 00:28:00,096 --> 00:28:04,016 sharing activities. We use the lingo of this subculture now. We 543 00:28:04,024 --> 00:28:07,984 have shared language. Yeah. You know, so I'm figuring out who 544 00:28:08,008 --> 00:28:11,520 I am or whatever, and then the music is like baptizing me into that 545 00:28:11,576 --> 00:28:15,840 broader. Those broader sets of cultural things. And I think that's 546 00:28:15,856 --> 00:28:19,648 why music. Maybe that I'm. Now I'm riffing. But I think that maybe 547 00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:25,106 why music is so powerful is that it actually just goes so deep 548 00:28:25,234 --> 00:28:27,938 for people. There are maybe some people that it is mostly window 549 00:28:27,970 --> 00:28:32,546 dressing, but a lot of people go a lot deeper with music than that. 550 00:28:32,714 --> 00:28:36,082 And you Know, I don't know what the numbers are, but I would 551 00:28:36,122 --> 00:28:38,946 believe it's more people than, like, for instance, really like to 552 00:28:38,954 --> 00:28:42,882 read novels or even really love movies. I bet you there's more 553 00:28:42,922 --> 00:28:46,382 people who really love a particular kind of music. 554 00:28:46,842 --> 00:28:53,708 I. At risk of having myself psychoanalyzed, I won't really. What's 555 00:28:53,740 --> 00:28:56,940 really interesting, though, you're bringing that up, and I'm, 556 00:28:56,956 --> 00:29:00,908 like, flipping through my own experiences. And so I was growing 557 00:29:00,940 --> 00:29:03,932 in a household where, like, Until I was 18, the limits of my 558 00:29:03,972 --> 00:29:08,156 music was Christian and Disney. And I am not a rebellious 559 00:29:08,204 --> 00:29:11,772 person by nature. So, like, like, the one outlet, like, I had, 560 00:29:11,812 --> 00:29:13,692 my aunt would play the. 561 00:29:13,732 --> 00:29:15,500 Shrek soundtrack for me. 562 00:29:15,556 --> 00:29:16,860 So I heard Smash. 563 00:29:16,956 --> 00:29:17,414 Yeah. 564 00:29:17,508 --> 00:29:19,858 But, like, I think it's so interesting, like, because now I'm, 565 00:29:19,890 --> 00:29:23,362 like, analyzing myself. Like, is that why I love Disney so much? 566 00:29:23,402 --> 00:29:26,482 Is it, like, that's the only mute? Because I didn't like Christian, 567 00:29:26,642 --> 00:29:29,778 the only thing I was allowed to listen to. So I'm like, you are. 568 00:29:29,930 --> 00:29:32,514 I know every word of, like, every Disney song from, like, the 569 00:29:32,538 --> 00:29:34,546 1940s all the way through today. 570 00:29:34,634 --> 00:29:37,298 You listen to the Hercules soundtrack still? Oh, yeah, yeah, 571 00:29:37,330 --> 00:29:37,922 yeah, yeah. 572 00:29:38,002 --> 00:29:42,562 Well, one thing about that is the quality differential, because. 573 00:29:42,682 --> 00:29:48,014 Yeah. You know, and Disney, actually. I mean, my first thought 574 00:29:48,038 --> 00:29:51,310 is, oh, a Disney song is like, a thing. But when I think about it. 575 00:29:51,366 --> 00:29:54,142 Well, actually, a lot of Disney films, like, set in different 576 00:29:54,182 --> 00:29:58,190 times and places with sort of different scores and soundtracks. 577 00:29:58,366 --> 00:30:01,374 Yeah, we. You know that maybe the Aladdin and Lion King songs by 578 00:30:01,398 --> 00:30:05,214 the mid-90s are okay. There's, like, a famous duet, then they go 579 00:30:05,238 --> 00:30:08,286 for the Grammys, and they, like, they had. They had come to 580 00:30:08,294 --> 00:30:12,070 that. Did come to that format by then. Well, you got the Robin 581 00:30:12,086 --> 00:30:15,878 Hood soundtrack, which is. Which is gold to me. 582 00:30:15,950 --> 00:30:19,494 I definitely do Whistle Stop around my house at least once. 583 00:30:19,598 --> 00:30:22,406 I did. I used to sing it. I used to whistle it to our firstborn 584 00:30:22,454 --> 00:30:29,062 all the time and play ukulele. I wonder if it's like, the old. Most 585 00:30:29,102 --> 00:30:33,478 of Christian stuff is worse. And so Disney. But Disney, depending 586 00:30:33,510 --> 00:30:36,758 on whatever genre Disney's doing, they're gonna do their version 587 00:30:36,790 --> 00:30:39,554 of it, but it's going to be done at an extremely high level. 588 00:30:39,678 --> 00:30:42,938 They are going to hire Gershwin because they fucking can. 589 00:30:43,090 --> 00:30:45,674 You know, like, they're going to. They're going to get hammers, 590 00:30:45,738 --> 00:30:49,226 you know, Bernstein and whatever. I don't know about a big 591 00:30:49,394 --> 00:30:55,018 musical. Sky. Yeah. So, like, the best in the biz. Yeah, yeah. 592 00:30:55,050 --> 00:30:55,610 I didn't. 593 00:30:55,706 --> 00:30:56,826 The other side and I'm sorry. 594 00:30:56,874 --> 00:30:58,874 No, no. This is interesting. 595 00:30:58,938 --> 00:31:01,402 Like, it's so interesting because, like, I was thinking about 596 00:31:01,442 --> 00:31:02,394 that, and then the. 597 00:31:02,418 --> 00:31:06,442 Other part was so Rogers and Hammerstein. Okay, sorry. 598 00:31:06,522 --> 00:31:09,466 Got it. Sorry. He did not look that up. It came to his head. He 599 00:31:09,474 --> 00:31:13,526 did not look on his phone. I watched it happen. Is that live action? 600 00:31:13,614 --> 00:31:14,562 Live action? 601 00:31:14,942 --> 00:31:16,470 No, but, like, so. 602 00:31:16,526 --> 00:31:17,142 So when I'm. 603 00:31:17,222 --> 00:31:20,758 I'm still, like, learning songs I should know and, like, regular 604 00:31:20,790 --> 00:31:21,126 references. 605 00:31:21,174 --> 00:31:23,014 You're filling in gaps, like, regular references. 606 00:31:23,078 --> 00:31:25,318 People are making, and I just, like, shake my head, and they're, 607 00:31:25,350 --> 00:31:28,758 like, referencing, like, you too, and I'm like, that is a letter 608 00:31:28,790 --> 00:31:29,270 and a number. 609 00:31:29,326 --> 00:31:29,990 Uhhuh. 610 00:31:30,086 --> 00:31:30,790 Yeah. 611 00:31:30,966 --> 00:31:32,374 I grew up with you too. 612 00:31:32,558 --> 00:31:33,442 I love. 613 00:31:34,142 --> 00:31:37,382 Now I'm psychoanalyzing. You go. That's why. That explains a lot, 614 00:31:37,422 --> 00:31:37,910 Josh. 615 00:31:38,006 --> 00:31:43,732 But listen, time, like, the stuff that gravity, I guess, like, 616 00:31:43,772 --> 00:31:46,740 with the. Like, the clothing and stuff must match, because I'm 617 00:31:46,756 --> 00:31:49,924 recalling the time, like, early when I met my wife. Like, the 618 00:31:49,948 --> 00:31:53,044 first drive we did. She just straight up goes, you know, you look 619 00:31:53,068 --> 00:31:55,828 like someone who listens to Passenger. And, like, I've wondered 620 00:31:55,860 --> 00:31:56,244 a long time. 621 00:31:56,268 --> 00:32:01,364 What that meant without. Without ass. Without, like, anyone 622 00:32:01,428 --> 00:32:05,668 telling you. Now, that could have just been chance. Yeah, but. 623 00:32:05,820 --> 00:32:09,604 Or you could have tacitly picked it up and sort of recognized 624 00:32:09,668 --> 00:32:12,836 a trend of other people who are affiliated with this thing and 625 00:32:12,844 --> 00:32:15,412 then go, I like that. I. That sounds like that looked good. 626 00:32:15,452 --> 00:32:17,940 Yeah, I think it could be. 627 00:32:17,996 --> 00:32:18,708 And I've just. 628 00:32:18,780 --> 00:32:22,068 I've been doing a lot of thinking through what makes Passenger 629 00:32:22,100 --> 00:32:25,588 different from other folk music. His stuff is a lot more philosophical. 630 00:32:25,620 --> 00:32:28,708 Like, a lot of folk music is like, you're angsty. Oh, I'm sad 631 00:32:28,740 --> 00:32:31,876 about. By whoever you lost. And, like, real life stuff, and I 632 00:32:31,884 --> 00:32:35,392 love that stuff too. But, like, his stuff is usually you get 633 00:32:35,432 --> 00:32:37,776 stuff like, you know, you never know you love her till you 634 00:32:37,784 --> 00:32:40,464 let her go. You get life for the living, so you might as well 635 00:32:40,488 --> 00:32:43,008 live it, or you're better off dead. Like, you get these, like, 636 00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:45,776 really philosophical ideas. He's very much an existentialist, 637 00:32:45,904 --> 00:32:48,736 and I think what it was is, like, when I'm 18, was also the first 638 00:32:48,744 --> 00:32:50,960 time I've ever introduced other religions. I started taking 639 00:32:51,016 --> 00:32:54,048 philosophy classes. And then here's the one who's speaking philosophy. 640 00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:55,172 He's given language. 641 00:32:56,312 --> 00:32:57,376 This is good. 642 00:32:57,544 --> 00:32:58,966 Yeah, absolutely. 643 00:32:59,064 --> 00:33:02,618 And I like, because I. My. My kids are in college, and so my oldest, 644 00:33:02,650 --> 00:33:07,514 22, Hannah, is huge music buff, loves music. And she's at age 645 00:33:07,538 --> 00:33:09,306 now where I'm super proud, because she's like, dad, I think 646 00:33:09,314 --> 00:33:11,530 you like this. Oh, I'm listening to this. Have you heard 647 00:33:11,546 --> 00:33:13,850 this? I think you would like it. So she knows my style. And I'm 648 00:33:13,866 --> 00:33:15,834 like, I'm so proud of you. You know me. But also, you have good 649 00:33:15,858 --> 00:33:18,778 taste in music. I feel like I was a good parent. Like, they. There's 650 00:33:18,810 --> 00:33:21,850 things. But she also has this ownership thing that if other people 651 00:33:21,906 --> 00:33:25,042 start liking something that she like versus, like, she gets like, 652 00:33:25,202 --> 00:33:28,338 no, no, that's my band. That can't be your band. You know what? 653 00:33:28,410 --> 00:33:31,346 She. She loves Gray Van Fleet now. And I. And I was like, oh, I 654 00:33:31,354 --> 00:33:33,874 saw that with Trip. And she was like, you saw them in concert? 655 00:33:33,938 --> 00:33:35,826 What do you mean? And you didn't tell me? Like, no, I thought 656 00:33:35,834 --> 00:33:38,866 this is my band. Like, wait a minute. Why, why. Why is this. So 657 00:33:38,874 --> 00:33:42,434 there's also this kind of psychological of ownership. This 658 00:33:42,458 --> 00:33:45,826 is me. This is my identity. This is what is happening. And you 659 00:33:45,834 --> 00:33:48,770 know, do I want to invite you to be a part of that part of my me 660 00:33:48,826 --> 00:33:51,882 or not? And so her inviting me, like Remy Wolf, she's like, dad, 661 00:33:51,962 --> 00:33:54,282 this is my new favorite artist. I really think you like her. 662 00:33:54,322 --> 00:33:56,122 And so some of those songs have been jamming out really hard. 663 00:33:56,162 --> 00:33:58,634 I'm like, you're. I think you're right. This is really good 664 00:33:58,658 --> 00:34:01,690 music. And yeah, she's got enough, you know. Do you know Roomy? 665 00:34:01,706 --> 00:34:06,554 Well, I do. I. I was telling you last night, I love I Don't remember 666 00:34:06,698 --> 00:34:13,674 hello, hello and the song Liz and yeah, I did. I dig her. I think 667 00:34:13,698 --> 00:34:17,050 I like the sing the earlier singles more than I liked the record 668 00:34:17,106 --> 00:34:20,840 when I heard first full length. But she's incredibly talented. 669 00:34:20,856 --> 00:34:23,864 Incredibly. Yeah. And you know, I'm a back fan too. So if you 670 00:34:23,888 --> 00:34:28,504 can mix, get your kind of funk on and in. In bass line, but then 671 00:34:28,528 --> 00:34:32,120 do like switch up and do like a string. Your head was a string 672 00:34:32,136 --> 00:34:36,904 composer, so it's like bust out really methodic strings and cello. 673 00:34:36,968 --> 00:34:41,240 You got me. You got me. Yeah, yeah. And I. I think that's important 674 00:34:41,296 --> 00:34:45,056 as we. As we share joyful noises and to talk about music, go 675 00:34:45,064 --> 00:34:50,192 a little deeper. It is important you understand how it can 676 00:34:50,232 --> 00:34:52,784 hit our identity, but also the communities we are a part of and 677 00:34:52,808 --> 00:34:56,304 those kind of things too. So it has been interesting to see, you 678 00:34:56,328 --> 00:35:00,144 know, here at the Alice Beer Camp. Tripp, you know, he's a theater 679 00:35:00,208 --> 00:35:04,432 kid, preacher's kid, but also loves karaoke, loves getting up there, 680 00:35:04,472 --> 00:35:06,768 youth pastor at heart. But that music, like, you're inviting 681 00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:08,832 people to sing karaoke with you, but then you also have a music 682 00:35:08,872 --> 00:35:11,248 artist sing for you, and they're having these music Breaks 683 00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:14,334 the band between these. They're trying to mix up all the 684 00:35:14,358 --> 00:35:16,654 senses with that kind of stuff. It's just part of who we are 685 00:35:16,678 --> 00:35:17,550 and what we're doing. 686 00:35:17,606 --> 00:35:22,638 So even the people who are playing, like, I think he was really 687 00:35:22,710 --> 00:35:25,934 intentional with, like, the identity process because you have, 688 00:35:25,958 --> 00:35:27,838 like, Kevin Max, who's gone through, like, the deconstruction. 689 00:35:27,870 --> 00:35:31,082 So the deconstructionists are out, Right. And then today we have 690 00:35:31,782 --> 00:35:35,726 IG King and Flamey Grant. So you have that, like, the queer community 691 00:35:35,894 --> 00:35:40,025 and that, like, identity point there, too. So I think that intentionality 692 00:35:40,073 --> 00:35:40,681 was really. 693 00:35:40,801 --> 00:35:41,561 Yep. 694 00:35:41,721 --> 00:35:42,857 Trip is so smart. 695 00:35:42,969 --> 00:35:47,785 It is cool. Well, thanks, Dan. I think there's one question here. 696 00:35:47,873 --> 00:35:52,169 Question. Go for it. Around the identity stuff, because we're 697 00:35:52,185 --> 00:35:54,249 talking about how, like, a lot of times it's. We find the songs 698 00:35:54,265 --> 00:35:55,945 that we're already kind of identifying with those groups. But 699 00:35:55,953 --> 00:35:59,161 I think sometimes you see those songs that break through. So 700 00:35:59,201 --> 00:36:03,401 specifically, I'm thinking of, like, better Love than the song that's 701 00:36:03,481 --> 00:36:06,141 literally just. It's the numbers for the Suicide Hotline. 702 00:36:06,281 --> 00:36:10,342 And both of those got really popular. And I watched people who 703 00:36:10,382 --> 00:36:13,286 were, like, evangelical adjacent squirm because you have 704 00:36:13,294 --> 00:36:16,182 these songs that are, like, really clearly making some strong 705 00:36:16,222 --> 00:36:19,602 cases for not being dicks to the queer community. And it's like 706 00:36:20,302 --> 00:36:23,814 this song, but I. You know, so they're still playing it, but I feel 707 00:36:23,838 --> 00:36:26,082 like it kind of broke some barriers there. Like. 708 00:36:26,542 --> 00:36:30,118 Yeah, I think media plays a part. I mean, there is, like, a theory 709 00:36:30,230 --> 00:36:35,562 in sociology that, like, Will and Grace is, like, a big reason 710 00:36:36,262 --> 00:36:39,694 that, you know, more gay marriage reform and stuff was able 711 00:36:39,718 --> 00:36:44,574 to get, like, more popular support. People talk about, you know, 712 00:36:44,598 --> 00:36:47,710 portrayals of certain characters, like the movie Philadelphia 713 00:36:47,886 --> 00:36:52,046 also, like, possibly playing a pretty big role in, like, acceptance 714 00:36:52,094 --> 00:36:57,374 around HIV and homosexuality and all that stuff where Denzel Washington, 715 00:36:57,438 --> 00:37:00,824 like, plays the character who has some stuff to learn about that. 716 00:37:00,958 --> 00:37:03,844 And we identify with Denzel Washington. We like him a lot, you 717 00:37:03,868 --> 00:37:06,964 know, and so, like, having movie stars kind of do that. I think 718 00:37:06,988 --> 00:37:10,196 all that stuff really does have an effect. I think the strongest 719 00:37:10,244 --> 00:37:12,740 effect, though, when people change their mind about things like 720 00:37:12,876 --> 00:37:17,108 queer affirmation or whatever is. Is friendships. And ultimately, 721 00:37:17,140 --> 00:37:19,684 like, the thing I hear more than anything else was, I have these 722 00:37:19,708 --> 00:37:24,452 queer friends. You just. You cannot tell me that they are any 723 00:37:24,492 --> 00:37:29,682 less loving or, you know, that. I just cannot see for the life 724 00:37:29,722 --> 00:37:34,962 of me how they're anyway, less than in, like, God's eyes, because 725 00:37:35,002 --> 00:37:39,618 I know them. They are my close friends. And I think that I trust 726 00:37:39,730 --> 00:37:40,098 more. 727 00:37:40,170 --> 00:37:40,898 I trust them. 728 00:37:40,970 --> 00:37:44,338 Trust. I trust Them more than you person that I have this conversation 729 00:37:44,370 --> 00:37:49,282 with, I think that's implied. And, and it's like yeah, so. But, 730 00:37:49,322 --> 00:37:52,354 but I do, I do think media, including music plays a role. Okay. 731 00:37:52,418 --> 00:37:54,578 And there's an edge. You go swinging it back around to punk. 732 00:37:54,610 --> 00:37:56,946 Like there's a way of like push the edge, push the envelope. 733 00:37:56,994 --> 00:37:59,886 You're gonna break boundaries. Like there' going to, we're going 734 00:37:59,894 --> 00:38:02,782 to be edgy. So there's that, that the lingo around. Like oh, they 735 00:38:02,822 --> 00:38:05,054 sold out because they went mainstream. Or what about like the 736 00:38:05,078 --> 00:38:08,142 deep cuts and pushing the edges? So yeah. How do you make change 737 00:38:08,182 --> 00:38:10,606 how you shape community? Do you want to make money in a living? 738 00:38:10,654 --> 00:38:13,118 Do you want to sell out because you want to be, you know, 739 00:38:13,190 --> 00:38:15,758 sell arenas or you going to still punk. 740 00:38:15,790 --> 00:38:20,270 Stuff like is really childish and immature and I don't, I don't 741 00:38:20,366 --> 00:38:23,934 vibe with it anymore at all. I probably vibe with all of it when 742 00:38:23,958 --> 00:38:29,052 I was 15, didn't discriminate. But now some of it is like, you know, 743 00:38:29,432 --> 00:38:35,616 the more like boots on the ground sociopolitics of like advocating 744 00:38:35,664 --> 00:38:39,024 for the poor and stuff like that. I think that stuff always really 745 00:38:39,048 --> 00:38:43,680 resonated and still does in the way that some of the, you know, 746 00:38:43,736 --> 00:38:47,952 anti system stuff now to be just sounds like teenagers. 747 00:38:48,032 --> 00:38:48,848 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 748 00:38:48,880 --> 00:38:51,184 I don't, I don't find much meaning in it anymore. 749 00:38:51,248 --> 00:38:54,770 But you know, and for me it was like 90s rap. Like whether it's, 750 00:38:54,946 --> 00:38:59,346 you know, Public Enemy or, or whatever. Like I as a, you know, 751 00:38:59,434 --> 00:39:04,834 upper class white surfer kid, like listen to 90s rap. They. They 752 00:39:04,858 --> 00:39:08,322 were pushing me to think through kind of like systemic racism 753 00:39:08,402 --> 00:39:10,818 but not understanding it and trying to figure out what they're 754 00:39:10,850 --> 00:39:14,962 saying. This kind of hip hop spoken word poetry about, you know, 755 00:39:15,002 --> 00:39:17,026 what's going on, their communities. And I just thought was 756 00:39:17,034 --> 00:39:19,838 cool because it had a good beat and you know, I'm. I won't. 757 00:39:19,870 --> 00:39:22,670 I wish that that song could play in my clip in my surf video. 758 00:39:22,726 --> 00:39:25,454 I want them to play that song when I did it. Like what would be 759 00:39:25,478 --> 00:39:28,702 my song in my, in my video? And something about. But yet behind 760 00:39:28,742 --> 00:39:31,662 all that they have a message of trying to express what's going 761 00:39:31,702 --> 00:39:32,830 on, their communities and lives. 762 00:39:32,886 --> 00:39:35,870 Opening a whole new culture to you that you would have had no access 763 00:39:35,926 --> 00:39:39,790 to. I think it's funny, we used to like kind of make fun of 764 00:39:39,846 --> 00:39:43,774 the white kids who were really into rap. Yeah, it was like a. You 765 00:39:43,798 --> 00:39:46,830 guys must be pretending or. I think it was probably what we thought 766 00:39:46,886 --> 00:39:50,944 like something about it seemed fake. Seemed like a Seemed like a 767 00:39:50,968 --> 00:39:54,812 show. Not us punks with our mohawks. We're not putting on a show. 768 00:39:55,112 --> 00:39:59,440 But, like. But I. Now I. It makes a lot more sense to me. I'm 769 00:39:59,456 --> 00:40:03,088 just like, oh, like, it brought, like, a life to the suburbs. 770 00:40:03,120 --> 00:40:06,768 Like, it's like this whole other exciting world. 771 00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:07,520 Yep. 772 00:40:07,616 --> 00:40:12,704 Whether or not it's, you know, real or being exaggerated or whatever, 773 00:40:12,768 --> 00:40:16,864 like, it's not what this life looks like, and it's this. It's like 774 00:40:16,888 --> 00:40:21,944 a. Not just escapism. It's a genuine incursion of another culture 775 00:40:22,088 --> 00:40:25,384 into this kind of sealed suburban culture. 776 00:40:25,528 --> 00:40:28,520 You know, breaking down walls. Like, Walk this Way with Aerosmith 777 00:40:28,536 --> 00:40:31,400 and Run dmc. Literally breaking down the wall and coming 778 00:40:31,456 --> 00:40:35,960 together. Yeah. 779 00:40:36,136 --> 00:40:41,096 I got a weird connection point with that of, like, nervous. Kind 780 00:40:41,104 --> 00:40:43,204 of makes me think of, like, nervous. 781 00:40:43,368 --> 00:40:43,740 Okay. 782 00:40:43,756 --> 00:40:45,932 No, no, I mean, like, how weird. 783 00:40:46,012 --> 00:40:47,164 Yeah. How weird. 784 00:40:47,308 --> 00:40:49,340 Went to Doctor who naturally. 785 00:40:49,436 --> 00:40:50,428 Yeah. Okay. That tracks. 786 00:40:50,460 --> 00:40:52,908 Because a lot of what the doctor does is he's just, like, traveling 787 00:40:52,940 --> 00:40:54,924 places. Not because he's, like, trying to save the day or do 788 00:40:54,948 --> 00:40:57,916 some, like, heroic mission. He's just like, whoa, look at what 789 00:40:57,924 --> 00:41:00,636 people were like in Shakespearean England. This is freaking 790 00:41:00,684 --> 00:41:03,164 cool. You know, he's just like, let's just hang out here and 791 00:41:03,188 --> 00:41:03,884 see what people are like. 792 00:41:03,908 --> 00:41:05,516 I'm intrigued. I'm intrigued. Yeah. 793 00:41:05,564 --> 00:41:06,796 He's, like, doing this kind of stuff. 794 00:41:06,844 --> 00:41:09,884 Arm. It's armchair anthropology. Armchair travel kind 795 00:41:09,908 --> 00:41:10,854 of a thing. Yeah. 796 00:41:10,948 --> 00:41:15,234 And it's great. And I feel like since my theology has kind of, 797 00:41:15,258 --> 00:41:18,194 like, been developing the last few years, and I've got to this point 798 00:41:18,218 --> 00:41:21,090 of, like, I don't feel like I need to, like, win souls to Christ. 799 00:41:21,146 --> 00:41:24,114 And instead I'm like, wow, God is in everyone. I just, like, have 800 00:41:24,138 --> 00:41:27,586 this, like, really passionate drive to, like, curiosity. 801 00:41:27,714 --> 00:41:29,782 Curiosity. Yeah. 802 00:41:30,762 --> 00:41:33,426 The airport. I'm just, like, in this random local bookstore in 803 00:41:33,434 --> 00:41:36,034 the airport, and I'm like, hey, this person is willing to talk 804 00:41:36,058 --> 00:41:36,496 to me. 805 00:41:36,594 --> 00:41:37,892 What is the one book here that. 806 00:41:37,932 --> 00:41:40,948 Most resonates with you? And I want to just experience it because 807 00:41:41,100 --> 00:41:41,860 that was. 808 00:41:41,916 --> 00:41:42,820 Meant something to you. 809 00:41:42,876 --> 00:41:45,204 And, like, you're someone made in the image of God. And that's so 810 00:41:45,228 --> 00:41:47,572 cool. And, like, I feel like I did the same thing with music. Like, 811 00:41:47,612 --> 00:41:52,260 even, like. Even though might not be my favorite, like, my wife 812 00:41:52,276 --> 00:41:54,676 loves them. So, like, every now and then I'm like, I'm going 813 00:41:54,684 --> 00:41:56,692 to listen to this and, like, try to hear it, like, through her 814 00:41:56,732 --> 00:41:59,892 ears. Because, like, that resonates with another person made 815 00:41:59,932 --> 00:42:02,164 in the image of God, like, who is also my wife, which makes it even 816 00:42:02,188 --> 00:42:02,468 Cooler. 817 00:42:02,500 --> 00:42:05,050 But you know, yeah, I want to understand you through your music 818 00:42:05,106 --> 00:42:07,402 because if this is a part of you and it's important to you, then 819 00:42:07,442 --> 00:42:10,458 I want to understand, yeah, why is it for you? But also like, 820 00:42:10,610 --> 00:42:13,994 maybe I'll vibe with it, maybe I won't. But yeah, that's good. Well, 821 00:42:14,018 --> 00:42:17,162 let's wrap this up, Dan. All right. On this, you put on this headline, 822 00:42:17,242 --> 00:42:20,906 recommend one Christian artist. One artist outside of normal 823 00:42:20,954 --> 00:42:24,154 Christian or pop culture. So at the end of our episodes we do 824 00:42:24,178 --> 00:42:27,226 recommendation well, like ecology or others. Is there a reckon 825 00:42:27,274 --> 00:42:31,186 one not Christian? Is that what for Somebody's in the. In the 826 00:42:31,194 --> 00:42:35,282 music game and, and let's. And admires. I admire that, you know, 827 00:42:35,322 --> 00:42:38,498 how much you, you love music and no music. Is there a recommendation? 828 00:42:38,530 --> 00:42:40,370 It could be Christian, non Christian, but is there something 829 00:42:40,506 --> 00:42:42,674 that you would recommend for folks that are listening to this 830 00:42:42,698 --> 00:42:46,306 are like, oh, go check out this band. And it could be Christian. 831 00:42:46,354 --> 00:42:48,578 Could not. But if there is, you know, we're at the Ellis Beer 832 00:42:48,610 --> 00:42:51,858 camp. If there's a connection to like deeper theological, philosophical 833 00:42:51,890 --> 00:42:52,770 questions, then why not? 834 00:42:52,826 --> 00:42:53,698 I got one. 835 00:42:53,850 --> 00:42:54,662 Okay. 836 00:42:55,472 --> 00:43:00,824 There's a indie power pop band called Not A Sir and as in like. 837 00:43:00,848 --> 00:43:03,256 S E N A D A space. 838 00:43:03,344 --> 00:43:08,152 S U R F. They had a. Like, they were kind of a one hit wonder 839 00:43:08,232 --> 00:43:10,984 initially with a song called popular in the 90s that had this 840 00:43:11,008 --> 00:43:12,280 like spoken word verse. 841 00:43:12,376 --> 00:43:12,824 Okay. 842 00:43:12,888 --> 00:43:16,328 Very weird. But then they basically had this kind of power 843 00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:20,504 pop career which is like, you know, comes out of the Birds and 844 00:43:20,528 --> 00:43:26,636 Big Star and like it's taking. Yeah, taking some of kind of Beatles 845 00:43:26,684 --> 00:43:31,292 and 60s British invasion like pop songwriting and then but like 846 00:43:31,332 --> 00:43:35,340 updating it with distorted guitars and. But Matthew the. The 847 00:43:35,396 --> 00:43:39,724 singer and songwriter of God of Surf, he. He is like, he has like 848 00:43:39,748 --> 00:43:47,116 a philosopher's mind and like is. Seems to be like engaging in 849 00:43:47,204 --> 00:43:53,660 some kind of spirituality, certainly engaging with like deep 850 00:43:53,756 --> 00:43:58,284 meaning questions and is a really great poet and cool. I think 851 00:43:58,308 --> 00:44:01,436 that. I think there's some kind of Eastern. I get kind of an 852 00:44:01,444 --> 00:44:06,472 Eastern vibe sometimes. But there. He has so many songs that 853 00:44:07,332 --> 00:44:15,452 touch on really deep, deeply resonating themes for me as like 854 00:44:15,492 --> 00:44:18,964 a. As a person, as a liberal Christian. But like from this, one 855 00:44:18,988 --> 00:44:22,484 of their big songs is Always Love. Hate will get you every time. 856 00:44:22,668 --> 00:44:26,692 And there's other stuff about like. There's a song that I feel 857 00:44:26,732 --> 00:44:30,180 like started as a compassion journal project where he was supposed 858 00:44:30,196 --> 00:44:33,188 to take the perspective of like an animal song called Fruit 859 00:44:33,220 --> 00:44:33,652 Fly. 860 00:44:33,732 --> 00:44:34,580 Okay. 861 00:44:34,756 --> 00:44:38,948 Where it's like, you know, he. He like takes on the perspective 862 00:44:38,980 --> 00:44:42,680 of a fruit fly who no longer has any, like, fruit and is running 863 00:44:42,696 --> 00:44:47,064 out of gas and, like, what can you do but go on? And then, like, 864 00:44:47,088 --> 00:44:49,652 then it's like, well, that's obviously a human thing too. And 865 00:44:49,952 --> 00:44:53,432 he's just really. He's just operating at a very deep level. And 866 00:44:53,472 --> 00:44:56,504 he's a great pop songwriter and a great singer. So that's my 867 00:44:56,528 --> 00:44:57,208 recommendation. 868 00:44:57,320 --> 00:45:02,412 Nice. Great recommendation. And we'll recommend Good Vibrations, 869 00:45:03,552 --> 00:45:06,760 pretty Good Vibrations, where you go and walk through some music 870 00:45:06,816 --> 00:45:09,288 you like or listen through. There's even tournaments. There's 871 00:45:09,320 --> 00:45:13,292 battles, tournaments, tournaments. Gamified, but pretty 872 00:45:13,352 --> 00:45:17,540 fun. So it's a. You know, again, you. You podcast different 873 00:45:17,596 --> 00:45:20,372 areas of your life, but that you're like, one of your ideas. Like, 874 00:45:20,412 --> 00:45:23,556 I really want to do this music podcast and share with you all because 875 00:45:23,644 --> 00:45:26,580 if I don't tell somebody, if I is for fun, if I don't sell somebody, 876 00:45:26,596 --> 00:45:29,076 I gotta tell somebody because it's inside me and I gotta share 877 00:45:29,084 --> 00:45:32,468 it with the world. So a lot of that stuff as we go there. So, yeah. 878 00:45:32,580 --> 00:45:35,140 Dan, thanks. Thanks for being a part of this. Thanks for hanging 879 00:45:35,156 --> 00:45:37,988 out with you and glad that we made some connections through mutual 880 00:45:38,020 --> 00:45:40,356 friends. And I'll keep listening to your stuff. 881 00:45:40,404 --> 00:45:40,644 I know. 882 00:45:40,668 --> 00:45:44,386 That's for sure. Joshua, how do you. How do you close out this? 883 00:45:44,554 --> 00:45:47,714 Some joyful noises. Where's your closing? I don't think it matters. 884 00:45:47,778 --> 00:45:49,682 Should we make no rhyme, rhythm, or reason? 885 00:45:49,722 --> 00:45:52,434 There isn't format. But you want to stay noisy, though. Is that 886 00:45:52,458 --> 00:45:53,154 kind of what you want to do? 887 00:45:53,178 --> 00:45:54,290 We could stay noisy. 888 00:45:54,306 --> 00:45:54,850 I think we could stay. 889 00:45:54,906 --> 00:45:55,826 You want to keep it noisy? 890 00:45:55,874 --> 00:45:59,282 Let's keep it noisy. Or stay with. Let's. Let's just stay noisy.