Welcome along.
Speaker AWe're diving into the connections between art and technology today.
Speaker AIf you're new here, thanks for joining us as we explore some, well, really interesting intersections.
Speaker BAnd for everyone who's been with us before, welcome back.
Speaker BWe're looking at the latest from the Intersect newsletter, curated by Jurgen Berkhessel.
Speaker AThat's right.
Speaker AAnd this is actually issue 52, which means it's been a full year of the Intersect.
Speaker AQuite a milestone.
Speaker ASo a big thanks to Jurgen for his work over the past year.
Speaker BAbsolutely.
Speaker BHe's consistently found these great links trying to keep a balance, you know, not just focusing only on AI, though that's obviously a huge topic for sure.
Speaker AToday we're focusing specifically on Jurgen's own commentary from this latest issue.
Speaker BOkay, so where does he start us off?
Speaker AHe begins with an essay by Lane Relaya called the Field of Contemporary Art.
Speaker AA Diagram.
Speaker AIt was published on Triple Canopy.
Speaker BAh, Relaia's piece.
Speaker BYeah.
Speaker BIt basically breaks down the contemporary art world into, I think it's five intersecting areas.
Speaker AExactly.
Speaker AYou've got the art market, then the exhibition circuit.
Speaker ASo galleries, museums, then the academic side, community based art, and finally cultural activism.
Speaker BRight.
Speaker BAnd the key point Relaya makes is that each of these subfields kind of defines art and its purpose quite differently.
Speaker BThey operate with different rule books almost.
Speaker AThat's what Jurgen picked up on, too.
Speaker AHe felt this diagram really captures how disjointed the whole idea of an art world can be.
Speaker AIt's not really one single entity.
Speaker BMm, that makes sense.
Speaker AYeah.
Speaker AAnd he mentioned personally feeling sort of split sometimes, navigating these different values and, you know, hierarchies within each area.
Speaker BIt definitely makes you think about where different pieces or artists fit or maybe don't fit neatly.
Speaker ATotally.
Speaker AAnd it leads to the question Jurgen raises.
Speaker AWhat would it actually mean to try and create art outside of all these established coordinates?
Speaker AIs that even possible?
Speaker BThat's a big question.
Speaker BMaybe it's less about being completely outside and more about working between them.
Speaker BOr challenging those coordinates from within.
Speaker ACould be.
Speaker AWell, moving from the structure of the art world.
Speaker AJurgen then looks at a specific artist.
Speaker AShamma Golden.
Speaker AHer new show.
Speaker AToo bad.
Speaker ASo sad.
Speaker AMaybe next birth was featured on Colossal.
Speaker BOh, right.
Speaker BHer paintings, they're described as oil on linen.
Speaker BVery surreal drawing on myth, specifically Sri Lankan folklore.
Speaker BBut also her own memories.
Speaker AYeah, and Jurgen was really drawn to how she uses Diptych's pairs of paintings to build this four act visual narrative.
Speaker AIt's like she's weaving together these personal moments with grander cosmic ideas that blend.
Speaker BOf personal and mythic is powerful.
Speaker BAnd wasn't there an AI element, too?
Speaker AThere was, yeah.
Speaker AShe collaborated with filmmaker Paul Trillo to train an AI model on her visual style.
Speaker AA really interesting mix of old techniques and new tech.
Speaker BDefinitely bridging tradition and the future there.
Speaker ABut Jurgen's main thought was about her storytelling, the sequential aspect.
Speaker AHe saw it almost like storyboarding a myth through her own lens, with real continuity in style, feeling and symbols across the pieces.
Speaker BLike, each painting is a deliberate step in a larger story.
Speaker BThat's quite compelling.
Speaker AIt is.
Speaker AAnd it made Jurgen wonder, how do we perceive this kind of deliberate, human crafted, sequential storytelling in visual art today?
Speaker AEspecially when AI is also, you know, constantly consuming and generating narratives?
Speaker ADoes it change how we look?
Speaker BHmm.
Speaker BDoes our exposure to machine generated stories affect our appreciation of the human hand in narrative art?
Speaker BYeah, that's something to ponder, definitely.
Speaker AOkay, next, Jurgen shifts focus to something ancient.
Speaker AThere's new research reported by connie waters@ancientpages.com about discovering ancient Egyptian depictions of the Milky Way.
Speaker BOh, this sounds fascinating.
Speaker BTell me more.
Speaker ASo it's based on the work of Dr.
Speaker AOr GRAR.
Speaker AHe studied, like, 125 images of the sky goddess Nut.
Speaker BNut.
Speaker BThe figure often arched over the earth, representing the sky.
Speaker AExactly.
Speaker AAnd on a 3,000-year-old coffin lid, he found this rare depiction, a black, wavy curve across Nut's body that looks remarkably like the Great Rift in the Milky Way.
Speaker AYou know, that dark band of dust.
Speaker BWow.
Speaker BSo not just a symbolic representation of the heavens, but possibly mapping an actual galactic feature.
Speaker AThat's the idea.
Speaker AAnd Jurgen found this really inspiring.
Speaker AIt suggests the Egyptians weren't just observing the sky.
Speaker AThey.
Speaker AThey were deeply integrating those observations into their cosmology, their religion, their art.
Speaker BIt shows a kind of ancient visual intelligence bridging what we'd now call art and science.
Speaker APrecisely.
Speaker ADr.
Speaker AGrauer is quoted saying these visual depictions add a whole new dimension to understanding Nut's link to the Milky Way beyond just texts.
Speaker BThat's incredible.
Speaker BIt makes you wonder what other cosmic narratives might be encoded in ancient art, just waiting for us to, well, ask the right questions or look with fresh eyes.
Speaker ARight.
Speaker AJurgen wondered the same thing.
Speaker AWhat else have we overlooked in museums?
Speaker AOkay, shifting gears quite dramatically now.
Speaker ATypography on a tombstone.
Speaker BOoh, whose tombstone?
Speaker APope Francis's.
Speaker AThe New York Times reported that typography critics have been scrutinizing the inscription.
Speaker BWhat's the issue?
Speaker AThe name Francis CVS is set in Times Roman, probably chosen for simplicity.
Speaker ABut the letter spacing the kerning is apparently Quite bad.
Speaker AIt looks something like F, R, A, N, C, I, S, C, V, S.
Speaker AOoh.
Speaker BThat's not ideal, especially for something so permanent and high profile.
Speaker AExactly.
Speaker AAnd Jurgen, with his graphic design background, had, let's say, a strong opinion.
Speaker AHe basically said it's just poorly executed spacing.
Speaker ANot the fonts ful.
Speaker ANot some algorithm, just bad craftsmanship.
Speaker BHe didn't mince words, huh?
Speaker ANot really.
Speaker AHe even quipped it was almost as bad as using Comic Sans.
Speaker AOr like that time Trump shared an AI image of the Pope.
Speaker AJust fundamentally jarring.
Speaker BYeah.
Speaker BYou expect a certain level of care with something like that.
Speaker ASo Jurgen's question is pretty straightforward.
Speaker AWhy do these kinds of basic typographic mistakes still happen when we have all the tools and knowledge to get it right?
Speaker BThat's a fair point.
Speaker BIt's like a lapse in attention to detail somewhere along the line.
Speaker ASeems so.
Speaker AOkay.
Speaker AOn a much lighter, maybe even tastier note, Jurgen highlighted mosaic artist Ed Chapman.
Speaker BWhat's unusual about his mosaics?
Speaker AWell, he was commissioned by McVities, the biscuit company, to make poor portraits using their chocolate digestive.
Speaker BWait, using actual biscuits?
Speaker AYep.
Speaker AThe BBC reported on it.
Speaker AHe made portraits of David bowie, Sir Trevor MacDonald, and Dame Judi Dench.
Speaker AApparently, he used the different shades.
Speaker AMilk chocolate, dark chocolate, the plain biscuit side, to get the colors and tones right.
Speaker BThat is dedication and patience.
Speaker AI can only imagine Jurgen admired the patience too.
Speaker ADefinitely.
Speaker AHe said creating likenesses from biscuits is quite something.
Speaker AThey're part of McVitty's 100th anniversary and were going on display.
Speaker BSo are they edible art?
Speaker AWell, Chapman mentioned having to varnish them heavily to preserve them, which led Jurgen to a very relatable thought.
Speaker BLet me guess.
Speaker BHe'd rather just eat them.
Speaker APretty much.
Speaker AHe appreciates the art, but his first instinct is food.
Speaker AIt prompted his lighthearted question.
Speaker AWould you rather preserve food as art or just, you know, eat it?
Speaker AHuh.
Speaker BIt's a fun dilemma.
Speaker BOkay, what's next on the list?
Speaker AJakub Geltner's work with surveillance cameras featured on designboom.
Speaker AHe takes these cameras and twists them into these curved, almost organic looking installations.
Speaker BSo turning technology into something that looks more like nature.
Speaker AKind of, yeah.
Speaker AThey end up looking almost like strange creatures.
Speaker ABent, clustered together, maybe seeming alive in an uncanny way.
Speaker BThat sounds visually striking and probably a bit unnerving.
Speaker AThat's the feeling Jurgen got.
Speaker AHe felt like the sculptures, even even though they're obviously deactivated, cameras still seem to have this intent, like they're straining to spy.
Speaker BMm.
Speaker BLike the ghost of surveillance.
Speaker AExactly.
Speaker AHe interprets it as showing how deeply surveillance tech is embedded in our world, in our minds even.
Speaker AIt's become part of the architecture, physical and psychological.
Speaker BThere's an eerie presence to them that even turned off.
Speaker AYeah.
Speaker ASuggesting the sort of inherited ingrained impulse to monitor.
Speaker AWhich led Jurgen to ask, what does it really take to disarm a surveillance culture?
Speaker AIs bending the tools enough?
Speaker AOr do we need to change the gaze itself?
Speaker AHow we look and are looked at.
Speaker BThat's deep.
Speaker BIt's not just about the hardware, but the whole mindset.
Speaker ARight.
Speaker AOkay.
Speaker AFrom surveillance tech to cardboard.
Speaker AGreg Lynek's amazing robot art.
Speaker BCardboard robots, yeah.
Speaker AFeatured on Design Swan.
Speaker AHe's a Melbourne artist, used to be a graphic designer, and now makes these incredibly detailed robot sculptures entirely from cardboard.
Speaker AAnd get this.
Speaker AIt's all hand cut.
Speaker ANo digital tools like laser cutters.
Speaker BWow.
Speaker BDoes it look like cardboard in the end?
Speaker AApparently not.
Speaker AThe finished pieces are described as looking like these intricate relics from some sci fi world.
Speaker AReally transforms the material.
Speaker BThat's amazing.
Speaker BWhat did Jurgen notice about them?
Speaker AHe observed that because everything's made from the same material, cardboard, all the different robots have this unified look, a consistent aesthetic.
Speaker AEven if the designs vary.
Speaker BThe medium becomes a unifying element.
Speaker AExactly.
Speaker AAnd there's something satisfying, Jurgen noted, about taking disposable stuff like cardboard and turning it into something so deliberate and permanent looking.
Speaker BIt's that transformation.
Speaker BDid the artist say anything about why cardboard?
Speaker AYeah, Elandric mentioned it just lends itself well to the simple curves and straight lines he uses, creating that connected feel across his work, which very relatably made Jurgen look at his own pile of Amazon boxes and think, hmm, maybe, huh?
Speaker BInspiring us all to look differently at our recycling bins.
Speaker AOkay, what else?
Speaker BSamsung TVs, specifically their Art Store feature.
Speaker BCE Pro reported that Samsung is expanding it.
Speaker AThe art store.
Speaker AThat's the thing on the frame TVs that shows artwork, right?
Speaker BThat's the one.
Speaker BNow they're bringing it to their 2025 Neo QLED line too.
Speaker BSo more of their high end TVs will have access to these curated digital galleries.
Speaker BArt Basel.
Speaker BLots of artists.
Speaker AInteresting.
Speaker ASo more screens becoming digital canvases.
Speaker AAre all their TVs getting it?
Speaker BNot the OLED line, apparently.
Speaker BStill excluded for now.
Speaker BBut Jurgen's interest wasn't really about the specific TV models.
Speaker AWhat was his angle then?
Speaker BMore the concept itself.
Speaker BIntegrating digital art galleries right into everyday devices.
Speaker BHe's curious how this changes how we display art.
Speaker BMaybe even how we collect or engage with living artists.
Speaker AWork making Art more ambient, perhaps.
Speaker ALess of a destination, more part of the background hum of life.
Speaker BSort of, yeah.
Speaker BMaking it more present, maybe less focused on just owning a single physical piece.
Speaker BHe described it as shaping a kind of casual, everyday curation in our home.
Speaker ALike channel surfing for art.
Speaker AHuh.
Speaker AMaybe it led him to ask if a subscription for rotating art on your TV starts to feel a bit like Netflix for paintings.
Speaker BIt certainly raises questions about accessibility versus maybe the perceived value or experience of art when it's delivered like streaming content.
Speaker AAbsolutely.
Speaker AOkay.
Speaker AFinal piece Jurgen discussed is a group show called I Sought My Soul, reviewed in FAD Magazine.
Speaker BI Sought My Soul.
Speaker BSounds intriguing.
Speaker BWhat's the theme?
Speaker AIt draws inspiration from William Blake, exploring things like mysticism, identity, and the role of AI.
Speaker AIt was curated by Tiger Tiger in Berlin in a church space.
Speaker AActually, St Elizabeth Kirsch Blake.
Speaker BMysticism, AI.
Speaker BThat's quite a mix.
Speaker BWhat was the feel of the show?
Speaker AThe review described it as having a surprising softness, even calling it a new sublime.
Speaker AIt features artists like Lu Yang and Imhoff, Jacoby Satterwhite, artists using things like digital avatars, dream logic, spiritual searching to maybe get beyond typical social or political divide.
Speaker BSo moving beyond explicit political statements toward something more internal or fluid.
Speaker AThat seems to be the idea.
Speaker AAnd Jurgen reflected on this, saying he understands why some younger artists might feel limited by the idea that art must be political.
Speaker BBut does he agree with moving away from it entirely?
Speaker ANot necessarily.
Speaker AHe thinks rejecting that impulse completely could be a missed opportunity.
Speaker AHe feels real autonomy for an artist includes making choices, and that can include choosing to engage politically or socially.
Speaker BSo it's about the freedom to choose the mode of expression rather than a mandate.
Speaker BEither way.
Speaker AExactly.
Speaker AThe exhibition itself seems to emphasize fluidity between human and tech, between art forms, between identities, creating this very open emotional.
Speaker BSpace, embracing complexity and nuance.
Speaker ARight.
Speaker AAnd this led to Jurgen's final question for this issue.
Speaker AIs it possible, he wonders, to hold space for both resistance and tenderness, both in art and, well, in life generally?
Speaker BWow.
Speaker BThat's a really potent thought to end on.
Speaker BBalancing critique with care, perhaps.
Speaker AIt really is.
Speaker AAnd on that note, that brings us to the end of our look into Jurgen's commentary for this edition.
Speaker AIt's been quite a journey through different ideas.
Speaker BIt certainly has.
Speaker BHis curation really does span a fascinating range.
Speaker AAbsolutely.
Speaker AAnd again, happy anniversary to the Intersect.
Speaker AOne year down, Jurgen wanted to pass on his thanks to all of you listening and following along this past year.
Speaker BIt's been a great resource.
Speaker ADefinitely.
Speaker ASo if you want to read Jurgen's full commentary, see the images and click through to all the original articles we talked about.
Speaker AYou should head over to TheIntersect Art.
Speaker BThat's TheIntersect Aart.
Speaker AYep, TheIntersect Art.
Speaker AYou can sign up for the newsletter there and really deepen your understanding of this ever evolving relationship between art and technology.
Speaker BA great way to stay connected to these conversations indeed.
Speaker AThanks for tuning in.