1 00:00:32,062 --> 00:00:35,392 W. Curtis Preston: hi, and welcome to Backup Central's Restore it all podcast. 2 00:00:35,397 --> 00:00:37,882 I'm your host, w Curtis Preston, aka Mr. 3 00:00:37,882 --> 00:00:38,392 Backup. 4 00:00:38,962 --> 00:00:42,952 And I have with me a guy who I hope is coming over to my house this weekend 5 00:00:42,952 --> 00:00:48,832 to help me pull up some vinyl planking Prasanna Malaiyandi, how's it going? 6 00:00:48,832 --> 00:00:49,512 Prasanna, 7 00:00:49,852 --> 00:00:51,352 Prasanna Malaiyandi: I'm good, Curtis. 8 00:00:51,352 --> 00:00:51,622 Yeah. 9 00:00:51,622 --> 00:00:51,802 I'm 10 00:00:51,952 --> 00:00:52,432 W. Curtis Preston: you coming over? 11 00:00:52,492 --> 00:00:53,272 You coming over? 12 00:00:54,682 --> 00:00:58,672 Prasanna Malaiyandi: if there's a Turkey or a brisket involved. 13 00:00:58,942 --> 00:01:00,622 W. Curtis Preston: There will be definitely a Turkey. 14 00:01:00,682 --> 00:01:02,992 I don't, I, you know, I didn't, I didn't plan for a brisket. 15 00:01:02,992 --> 00:01:06,322 I sh I really should have, I still got time to go to Costco, but I don't have 16 00:01:06,322 --> 00:01:11,992 time for the, for the full Curtis brisket experience, which is a 30 day wet age. 17 00:01:12,742 --> 00:01:13,192 Prasanna Malaiyandi: wait 18 00:01:13,282 --> 00:01:14,122 W. Curtis Preston: I'm sure what. 19 00:01:14,542 --> 00:01:15,172 Prasanna Malaiyandi: for Christmas. 20 00:01:15,172 --> 00:01:16,612 You're gonna do a ham, I'm assuming. 21 00:01:18,022 --> 00:01:18,712 W. Curtis Preston: Well with Ham. 22 00:01:18,712 --> 00:01:22,092 Ham we do the, we just get the honey baked, the honey baked 23 00:01:22,097 --> 00:01:25,372 ham, which is way too much money, but you know, it is what it is. 24 00:01:25,672 --> 00:01:26,332 Um, 25 00:01:26,437 --> 00:01:26,827 Prasanna Malaiyandi: that's right. 26 00:01:26,832 --> 00:01:29,917 Last year you stood in a really long line the day 27 00:01:29,917 --> 00:01:31,147 W. Curtis Preston: It was a really long line. 28 00:01:31,177 --> 00:01:31,627 Yeah. 29 00:01:31,807 --> 00:01:32,287 Yeah. 30 00:01:32,617 --> 00:01:34,117 Um, it's stupid. 31 00:01:34,897 --> 00:01:39,967 Um, but, uh, yeah, so, you know, this thing that's going on with my kitchen, 32 00:01:40,087 --> 00:01:43,657 um, it, it really, it's really all about the dishwasher and I don't 33 00:01:43,662 --> 00:01:45,127 know what's up with the dishwasher. 34 00:01:45,757 --> 00:01:50,647 Um, I should probably see if I could fix that or address that before, 35 00:01:50,857 --> 00:01:52,447 because here's the really weird thing. 36 00:01:54,382 --> 00:01:58,792 thought that my daughter redid the, like, started using the dishwasher 37 00:01:58,792 --> 00:02:00,622 after I said, don't use it. 38 00:02:00,952 --> 00:02:04,552 But that actually didn't happen because when I got home last night, 39 00:02:04,792 --> 00:02:10,762 um, uh, from my trip, I went and I looked just, you know, just to, I 40 00:02:10,762 --> 00:02:11,812 was like, I'm gonna take the look. 41 00:02:11,842 --> 00:02:13,432 Or actually, I guess it was the day before it. 42 00:02:13,432 --> 00:02:18,232 But anyway, when I got home, I saw it again that there was water all the floor. 43 00:02:18,592 --> 00:02:20,062 And I'm like, okay, well I'm gonna, I'm. 44 00:02:21,682 --> 00:02:25,192 J just, I'm gonna vacuum out the, basically when I open up the 45 00:02:25,192 --> 00:02:27,292 dishwasher, there's, it's full of water. 46 00:02:28,132 --> 00:02:32,602 So I got the wet vac and I, and I, I sucked out the water. 47 00:02:32,842 --> 00:02:36,022 And I'm like, okay, well that'll, that'll take care of any further problems. 48 00:02:36,082 --> 00:02:36,472 Right? 49 00:02:36,547 --> 00:02:37,657 Prasanna Malaiyandi: But then you got water again. 50 00:02:38,242 --> 00:02:40,402 W. Curtis Preston: And then I got water again, and I'm like, 51 00:02:41,457 --> 00:02:43,317 Prasanna Malaiyandi: And is it still collecting water? 52 00:02:43,317 --> 00:02:44,787 W. Curtis Preston: I hope I should figure that out and I 53 00:02:44,787 --> 00:02:46,077 hope it is something simple. 54 00:02:46,467 --> 00:02:51,117 Um, and then, and then once I fix that, then I have to rip up all the, 55 00:02:51,547 --> 00:02:51,967 Prasanna Malaiyandi: the, 56 00:02:52,077 --> 00:02:54,417 W. Curtis Preston: uh, flooring, let it dry and put it back down. 57 00:02:55,347 --> 00:02:57,657 So I thought I was done with the kitchen and I'm not done with the kitchen. 58 00:02:57,717 --> 00:02:57,987 But 59 00:02:58,317 --> 00:03:01,557 Prasanna Malaiyandi: in positive note, we got to hang out in person in real 60 00:03:01,917 --> 00:03:04,887 W. Curtis Preston: we did get to hang out and have not so good barbecue 61 00:03:05,247 --> 00:03:05,947 Prasanna Malaiyandi: I'm sorry. 62 00:03:06,807 --> 00:03:09,807 I, I should have known better than to try to take someone who loves 63 00:03:09,807 --> 00:03:11,337 barbecue to a barbecue place. 64 00:03:11,997 --> 00:03:12,747 I think I should just, 65 00:03:12,882 --> 00:03:13,152 W. Curtis Preston: been 66 00:03:13,797 --> 00:03:15,177 Prasanna Malaiyandi: I think I should just stick with like, 67 00:03:15,237 --> 00:03:16,737 well, California barbecue. 68 00:03:16,737 --> 00:03:20,457 I think I should just stick with like Indian, Korean. 69 00:03:20,517 --> 00:03:20,787 Thai, 70 00:03:23,052 --> 00:03:27,372 W. Curtis Preston: Hey, speaking of Korean, my book 71 00:03:27,427 --> 00:03:27,917 Prasanna Malaiyandi: yeah. 72 00:03:28,002 --> 00:03:30,702 W. Curtis Preston: got trans, my got translated into Korean. 73 00:03:31,302 --> 00:03:34,612 Um, and at least I think that that's Korean, right? 74 00:03:34,842 --> 00:03:35,702 That looks like Korean. 75 00:03:36,177 --> 00:03:36,477 It's not 76 00:03:36,772 --> 00:03:37,362 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Uh, yeah. 77 00:03:37,362 --> 00:03:38,472 That does look like Korean. 78 00:03:38,802 --> 00:03:39,132 Yeah, that 79 00:03:39,207 --> 00:03:39,657 W. Curtis Preston: like Korean. 80 00:03:39,657 --> 00:03:39,987 Right. 81 00:03:40,467 --> 00:03:46,197 Um, and, um, the, you know, which is kind of cool, uh, they always 82 00:03:46,197 --> 00:03:48,867 send me a copy when they translate the book into another language. 83 00:03:49,407 --> 00:03:52,497 Um, and, uh, they also send me a little bit of money. 84 00:03:52,497 --> 00:03:57,117 They, they, the, the company that does it is actually a different company 85 00:03:57,117 --> 00:03:58,437 and they actually pay a license. 86 00:03:58,977 --> 00:04:00,027 So Yeah. 87 00:04:00,057 --> 00:04:00,567 So whatever. 88 00:04:00,567 --> 00:04:02,217 So I got a little, little bit of money 89 00:04:02,232 --> 00:04:04,332 Prasanna Malaiyandi: so for our Korean listeners, if you 90 00:04:04,437 --> 00:04:04,617 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah. 91 00:04:04,617 --> 00:04:04,827 For. 92 00:04:04,962 --> 00:04:08,142 Prasanna Malaiyandi: out Curtis' book, it is now available 93 00:04:09,222 --> 00:04:11,592 W. Curtis Preston: what's one funny thing about my name? 94 00:04:11,652 --> 00:04:16,973 So if you look at the name, they didn't translate the W, it's just 95 00:04:17,022 --> 00:04:19,512 W and then, and then my name. 96 00:04:19,512 --> 00:04:20,682 I thought that was kind of funny. 97 00:04:21,432 --> 00:04:27,702 were maybe a little confused by the, the random W Um, and if you 98 00:04:27,702 --> 00:04:32,412 look at the letters, the letters, it's not a letter by letter. 99 00:04:32,667 --> 00:04:33,207 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Yeah, it's 100 00:04:33,477 --> 00:04:35,067 W. Curtis Preston: it's, it's it's a phonetic, 101 00:04:35,427 --> 00:04:35,787 Prasanna Malaiyandi: yeah. 102 00:04:36,357 --> 00:04:37,647 W. Curtis Preston: it's a phonetic language. 103 00:04:37,652 --> 00:04:41,817 Like, uh, Japanese, the letters, I remember when, um, 104 00:04:42,207 --> 00:04:43,257 or the characters, I'm sorry. 105 00:04:43,887 --> 00:04:47,157 I remember when my book first got translated into Japanese and I had 106 00:04:47,157 --> 00:04:49,677 a copy of it with me cuz I thought it was really cool just like this. 107 00:04:50,157 --> 00:04:53,487 And a friend came up who he was learning to read Japanese. 108 00:04:54,732 --> 00:04:56,622 American learning to read Japanese. 109 00:04:57,012 --> 00:05:00,102 And he looked at the, he looked at the, um, the name of the 110 00:05:00,102 --> 00:05:01,392 book was Backup and Recovery. 111 00:05:01,872 --> 00:05:11,712 So he looked at the, the cover and he's like, BA cool buddy He like, he 112 00:05:11,712 --> 00:05:16,092 like sounded out the sounds that were, I'm like, wait, that's what that says. 113 00:05:16,782 --> 00:05:20,742 Cause it's a, it's a phonetic, uh, it's the phonetic characters. 114 00:05:20,742 --> 00:05:22,312 Anyway, thought that was kind of funny. 115 00:05:23,877 --> 00:05:26,127 Prasanna Malaiyandi: I wonder how long it takes to do the translation. 116 00:05:27,657 --> 00:05:29,427 W. Curtis Preston: you know, obviously I have no idea. 117 00:05:29,937 --> 00:05:36,357 Um, and, uh, the degree to which to use technology or a hundred percent people. 118 00:05:36,507 --> 00:05:36,957 Donna. 119 00:05:37,017 --> 00:05:37,407 Donna. 120 00:05:38,637 --> 00:05:45,597 Um, so speaking of the book, we're gonna continue our backup to basic 121 00:05:45,597 --> 00:05:50,877 series, and there is no more basic topic than the one we're gonna talk about. 122 00:05:52,542 --> 00:05:53,222 Prasanna Malaiyandi: which is What 123 00:05:53,322 --> 00:05:54,612 W. Curtis Preston: is backup 124 00:05:56,022 --> 00:05:57,312 Prasanna Malaiyandi: What is backup Curtis? 125 00:05:57,522 --> 00:05:59,052 W. Curtis Preston: what is, what is backup? 126 00:05:59,232 --> 00:06:03,402 And you know, and the thing is, you know, if you're a longtime backup 127 00:06:03,402 --> 00:06:05,832 person and you're like, oh my God, this will be boring, I promise 128 00:06:05,832 --> 00:06:08,682 you, you'll learn one or two things that you might find interesting. 129 00:06:09,042 --> 00:06:12,192 So we'll take the actual, the definition. 130 00:06:12,942 --> 00:06:18,102 Of, you know, my, my, I, I have a formal definition of backup in the book, which 131 00:06:18,162 --> 00:06:23,052 by the way, is meant to distinguish it from archive, which will be the next. 132 00:06:24,657 --> 00:06:27,117 Backup and archive are two very different things. 133 00:06:27,117 --> 00:06:31,077 They're very similar, um, in a lot of ways Right. 134 00:06:31,077 --> 00:06:32,637 But completely different. 135 00:06:33,177 --> 00:06:35,787 Mainly they're similar in that they're a copy of data. 136 00:06:35,877 --> 00:06:38,667 They're completely different in what the copy is for. 137 00:06:39,267 --> 00:06:43,167 Um, and also quite different in how typically quite different 138 00:06:43,167 --> 00:06:44,817 in how the, it's stored, 139 00:06:45,552 --> 00:06:47,952 Prasanna Malaiyandi: And before you jump into your definition of backup, 140 00:06:47,957 --> 00:06:49,132 you wanna throw out our disclaimer 141 00:06:49,947 --> 00:06:50,787 W. Curtis Preston: Sure. 142 00:06:51,297 --> 00:06:55,152 Um, I dunno. 143 00:06:55,212 --> 00:06:59,202 I was gonna, I was gonna, no, I was gonna think some sassy way to 144 00:06:59,202 --> 00:07:03,972 do it, but, uh, so yeah, Prasanna and I work for different companies. 145 00:07:04,212 --> 00:07:09,102 He works for Zoom, I work for Druva, and this is not a podcast of either company. 146 00:07:09,362 --> 00:07:14,372 The opinions that you hear are ours and, uh, we'd love for you to rate us. 147 00:07:14,402 --> 00:07:17,972 Um, you know, just go to your favorite pod catcher, you know, 148 00:07:17,972 --> 00:07:19,352 you're listening to us on one. 149 00:07:19,352 --> 00:07:24,032 Most likely you're not listening to this directly on, um, you know, 150 00:07:24,152 --> 00:07:27,752 unless you're watching it on the website, in which case, hi, I see you. 151 00:07:27,847 --> 00:07:29,277 Prasanna Malaiyandi: watch the video. 152 00:07:29,492 --> 00:07:29,882 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah. 153 00:07:29,882 --> 00:07:30,092 Yeah. 154 00:07:30,302 --> 00:07:33,542 By the way, if you wanna see this on video, just go to backup central.com. 155 00:07:33,542 --> 00:07:34,562 We have it on video there. 156 00:07:35,342 --> 00:07:40,422 And, Uh, but yeah, just click and, and rate us, right, and put a comment. 157 00:07:40,422 --> 00:07:41,352 The comments are great. 158 00:07:41,442 --> 00:07:42,642 Uh, we love to hear it from you. 159 00:07:42,942 --> 00:07:47,892 And then also, uh, if you wanna join the conversation, uh, if you wanna argue, 160 00:07:47,952 --> 00:07:51,642 you know, if you're like, Curtis', definition of backup is bonkers. 161 00:07:52,362 --> 00:07:54,222 Curtis' bonkers, right? 162 00:07:54,492 --> 00:07:57,402 I love Prasanna's beard, and I wanna know more about it. 163 00:07:58,062 --> 00:07:58,872 Um, 164 00:07:59,022 --> 00:08:00,117 Prasanna Malaiyandi: whole episode on Beard 165 00:08:00,267 --> 00:08:03,357 W. Curtis Preston: could, we, we could do a whole episode on beard care. 166 00:08:03,867 --> 00:08:09,747 Uh, by the way, for those of you that were hoping for the, the 25 comments 167 00:08:09,747 --> 00:08:14,067 and the Santa Beard on Curtis, I'm sorry, but the listeners let you down. 168 00:08:14,607 --> 00:08:18,027 There just weren't enough comments to support me continuing to 169 00:08:18,032 --> 00:08:21,297 grow the beard that honestly, I didn't want in the first place. 170 00:08:22,167 --> 00:08:26,067 . So I, so I trimmed it, I trimmed it down to sort of what I feel 171 00:08:26,072 --> 00:08:27,477 is a more manageable size mean. 172 00:08:28,332 --> 00:08:31,122 My friend Prasanna still hasn't cut his beard at all. 173 00:08:31,557 --> 00:08:31,977 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Yep. 174 00:08:32,037 --> 00:08:33,207 It's still going strong. 175 00:08:33,942 --> 00:08:36,162 W. Curtis Preston: is, it's, when will it be a the, 176 00:08:37,107 --> 00:08:38,487 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Uh, in March. 177 00:08:39,297 --> 00:08:40,577 March of 2023. 178 00:08:40,872 --> 00:08:43,572 W. Curtis Preston: We'll hold a, some sort of, I think what we'll 179 00:08:43,572 --> 00:08:46,362 do is we'll come over to your house with some, some tremors. 180 00:08:46,617 --> 00:08:47,107 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Yeah. 181 00:08:47,107 --> 00:08:47,907 I actually have 182 00:08:47,907 --> 00:08:48,187 a 183 00:08:48,222 --> 00:08:49,182 W. Curtis Preston: what your wife wants. 184 00:08:50,337 --> 00:08:50,637 Prasanna Malaiyandi: And 185 00:08:50,642 --> 00:08:51,237 a hair trimmer. 186 00:08:51,527 --> 00:08:54,417 I have a beard trimmer and a hair 187 00:08:54,627 --> 00:08:55,197 W. Curtis Preston: Do you though? 188 00:08:55,347 --> 00:08:56,247 Do you though 189 00:08:56,397 --> 00:08:56,967 Prasanna Malaiyandi: I do. 190 00:08:56,967 --> 00:08:57,567 I just don't 191 00:08:57,657 --> 00:08:59,007 W. Curtis Preston: Do you still know where it is? 192 00:08:59,277 --> 00:09:00,117 Prasanna Malaiyandi: I do. 193 00:09:02,637 --> 00:09:04,377 W. Curtis Preston: All right, so let's see. 194 00:09:04,377 --> 00:09:05,997 Let's talk about, um, 195 00:09:06,687 --> 00:09:07,737 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Your definition of backup. 196 00:09:08,427 --> 00:09:09,687 W. Curtis Preston: yeah, yeah, exactly. 197 00:09:09,687 --> 00:09:12,117 So this is from chapter three of the book, modern Data Practice. 198 00:09:12,687 --> 00:09:16,197 Modern data protection, which if you wanna get a copy, you can get 199 00:09:16,197 --> 00:09:22,647 a free ebook copy of it by going to druva.com/ebook d uva.com/ebook. 200 00:09:22,857 --> 00:09:24,957 Prasanna Malaiyandi: And that's the English version for those folks, 201 00:09:25,047 --> 00:09:26,397 W. Curtis Preston: yeah, that's the English version. 202 00:09:26,637 --> 00:09:28,287 There is the Korean version if you want. 203 00:09:28,617 --> 00:09:30,597 Uh, but I don't know where to get that. 204 00:09:30,747 --> 00:09:34,167 I'm assuming What, what's, what's the dot? 205 00:09:34,737 --> 00:09:40,617 What's the.in Korea like dot, you know, amazon.kr. 206 00:09:41,202 --> 00:09:41,742 Prasanna Malaiyandi: I don't know. 207 00:09:41,742 --> 00:09:42,102 Actually. 208 00:09:42,102 --> 00:09:43,062 That is a good question. 209 00:09:44,232 --> 00:09:44,622 W. Curtis Preston: I dunno. 210 00:09:44,652 --> 00:09:45,222 You know what? 211 00:09:45,312 --> 00:09:46,212 I'll see if I can find it. 212 00:09:46,212 --> 00:09:46,752 If I can find it. 213 00:09:46,752 --> 00:09:50,832 I'll put it in the show notes for the, for the one Korean listeners that we 214 00:09:50,832 --> 00:10:00,072 have . Um, so, you know, so first off, I, I, I just wanna say this, um, not 215 00:10:00,072 --> 00:10:05,082 everybody agrees with me on, I, I, I, I take a very hard line between the 216 00:10:05,082 --> 00:10:10,272 difference between backup and archive and, uh, and not everybody agrees with me. 217 00:10:11,277 --> 00:10:13,992 Um, but they're, they're wrong. 218 00:10:14,052 --> 00:10:20,922 Um, . So the, what what I wanna say is this is more about the purpose 219 00:10:20,922 --> 00:10:24,302 of these two things and less about. 220 00:10:24,882 --> 00:10:27,762 I don't know less about terminology, I guess, but it, but I don't know. 221 00:10:27,762 --> 00:10:28,842 It is about terminology. 222 00:10:29,352 --> 00:10:32,682 There are products and I can think, I can think of a few. 223 00:10:32,742 --> 00:10:35,622 I know that some of the things that Druva does, some of the things that 224 00:10:35,627 --> 00:10:42,162 combo does, um, different products have parts of their product that 225 00:10:42,167 --> 00:10:46,032 behave as both backup and archive. 226 00:10:46,482 --> 00:10:47,562 I'm fine with that. 227 00:10:47,562 --> 00:10:49,152 Like I'm not that kind of purist. 228 00:10:49,152 --> 00:10:51,042 Backup and archive must be separate. 229 00:10:52,452 --> 00:10:59,592 The reason why I, why I, um, why I take such a hard line on it is that 230 00:10:59,592 --> 00:11:04,632 I think many, many people, in fact, I know many, many people misuse their 231 00:11:04,632 --> 00:11:09,162 backups as archives and they don't have any archive functionality in it. 232 00:11:09,612 --> 00:11:09,882 Right? 233 00:11:10,362 --> 00:11:14,142 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Or, or a lot of times, and I know we don't, we aren't 234 00:11:14,142 --> 00:11:16,242 talking about this yet, we should probably say this for the archive 235 00:11:16,242 --> 00:11:19,632 discussion, but a lot of times you hear people talk about like long-term 236 00:11:19,632 --> 00:11:23,412 retention, which is when they sort of take their backups and they're 237 00:11:23,412 --> 00:11:24,942 like, Hey, you just keep it forever. 238 00:11:24,947 --> 00:11:28,522 And that turns into long-term retention, which satisfies archive needs. 239 00:11:28,662 --> 00:11:34,362 And I think that's where we have issues with those backups being 240 00:11:34,362 --> 00:11:36,522 really used for archive reason. 241 00:11:37,197 --> 00:11:37,527 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah. 242 00:11:37,527 --> 00:11:44,637 The phrase that, the phrase that chaps my hide is I'm going to archive my backup. 243 00:11:46,752 --> 00:11:47,782 That isn't a phrase. 244 00:11:47,802 --> 00:11:51,012 That isn't, you can't say that that isn't a sentence. 245 00:11:51,492 --> 00:11:54,762 What you're saying is, I'm going to store my backup for longer. 246 00:11:55,422 --> 00:11:58,392 Um, and I, you know, I, I can, yeah. 247 00:11:58,392 --> 00:12:03,342 And this, this isn't quite as pointless as my argument that I also make about the 248 00:12:03,347 --> 00:12:05,562 fact that golf is a noun and not a verb. 249 00:12:07,872 --> 00:12:08,292 we talked 250 00:12:08,292 --> 00:12:08,832 about that. 251 00:12:08,907 --> 00:12:09,837 Prasanna Malaiyandi: We have talked about it. 252 00:12:09,842 --> 00:12:11,427 I think we've talked about it on the podcast too. 253 00:12:11,967 --> 00:12:12,357 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah. 254 00:12:12,417 --> 00:12:15,807 Back is golf is a noun, not a verb. 255 00:12:15,837 --> 00:12:16,797 Let me prove it. 256 00:12:17,067 --> 00:12:21,627 You play golf, like you play football, play tennis. 257 00:12:21,747 --> 00:12:23,007 Play baseball. 258 00:12:23,187 --> 00:12:26,097 You don't go baseball Footballing or Tennis, Inc. 259 00:12:26,517 --> 00:12:27,387 So why in the. 260 00:12:28,097 --> 00:12:29,087 Bleepity bleep, bleep. 261 00:12:29,547 --> 00:12:31,007 Do you go golfing? 262 00:12:31,187 --> 00:12:32,147 You don't. 263 00:12:32,327 --> 00:12:33,257 It's wrong. 264 00:12:33,377 --> 00:12:34,337 It's a noun. 265 00:12:34,397 --> 00:12:35,657 It always was a noun. 266 00:12:35,807 --> 00:12:40,217 It's only become a verb through, you know, proper, or, I'm sorry, uh, 267 00:12:40,247 --> 00:12:44,267 popular usage, but it's still a noun and I'm sticking by that, right? 268 00:12:44,272 --> 00:12:47,507 So that's why I'm saying there's no such thing as archiving a backup. 269 00:12:48,797 --> 00:12:50,357 Uh, so let me see here. 270 00:12:50,567 --> 00:12:53,717 I have a formal, let's see here. 271 00:12:53,747 --> 00:12:56,357 Okay, here is my, um, 272 00:12:56,847 --> 00:12:59,217 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Can you raise your head a little to talk into the mic? 273 00:12:59,222 --> 00:13:00,477 Sorry, you were cutting out there. 274 00:13:01,057 --> 00:13:02,667 W. Curtis Preston: Well, I had to go find it first. 275 00:13:03,207 --> 00:13:10,527 Um, so the, the, um, part, part of the problem here is that both 276 00:13:10,527 --> 00:13:15,297 the word backup and archive have generic definitions outside of it. 277 00:13:16,347 --> 00:13:19,887 I am talking about the it definition of backup. 278 00:13:19,917 --> 00:13:20,367 Okay. 279 00:13:20,637 --> 00:13:25,947 Prasanna Malaiyandi: And when you say backup, you mean one word backup, right? 280 00:13:26,217 --> 00:13:28,617 W. Curtis Preston: As long as we're on grammar, back up. 281 00:13:28,617 --> 00:13:30,717 One word is a noun. 282 00:13:30,807 --> 00:13:31,557 Back up. 283 00:13:31,677 --> 00:13:33,567 Two words is verb. 284 00:13:34,047 --> 00:13:34,587 It's con. 285 00:13:34,587 --> 00:13:36,057 It's called a compound verb. 286 00:13:36,147 --> 00:13:37,227 I back up. 287 00:13:37,257 --> 00:13:38,307 That's two words. 288 00:13:38,577 --> 00:13:39,717 Or he backs up. 289 00:13:39,717 --> 00:13:40,737 She backs up. 290 00:13:41,037 --> 00:13:42,177 He backed up. 291 00:13:42,177 --> 00:13:44,547 That's why you have to, you don't say I back up. 292 00:13:45,177 --> 00:13:45,537 Right? 293 00:13:45,537 --> 00:13:46,107 It's I 294 00:13:46,392 --> 00:13:46,782 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Yeah. 295 00:13:47,472 --> 00:13:47,772 W. Curtis Preston: Right. 296 00:13:48,192 --> 00:13:49,662 Um, that's why it's a compound. 297 00:13:49,667 --> 00:13:53,442 Ver but backup is a noun is, um, is a word. 298 00:13:53,922 --> 00:13:59,472 Um, so, and, and a lot of times people use the term backup. 299 00:13:59,472 --> 00:14:03,012 Like, they're like, oh, I'm gonna make a, I'm gonna make a backup, and. 300 00:14:03,867 --> 00:14:04,347 When, what? 301 00:14:04,347 --> 00:14:06,597 They're not really, they're making a copy. 302 00:14:06,987 --> 00:14:07,407 Right. 303 00:14:07,412 --> 00:14:10,227 And we're gonna talk about the difference between a copy and a backup too, right? 304 00:14:10,677 --> 00:14:12,927 Um, and so this is really the problem. 305 00:14:13,077 --> 00:14:15,567 Also, they talk about snapshots as backup. 306 00:14:15,597 --> 00:14:18,387 And when I say snapshots, I mean virtual snapshots, like what's 307 00:14:18,387 --> 00:14:21,057 done on a net app, not a backup. 308 00:14:21,477 --> 00:14:23,337 Not unless it's copied, right? 309 00:14:23,352 --> 00:14:26,322 Prasanna Malaiyandi: You know, this reminds me of the fact that like, 310 00:14:26,502 --> 00:14:28,872 do you remember in the early days everyone had a different notion of 311 00:14:28,872 --> 00:14:30,492 like what cloud meant or cloud meant? 312 00:14:30,492 --> 00:14:33,612 Everything, you know, and it's kind of like this where. 313 00:14:34,092 --> 00:14:38,922 Yeah, a lot of people misuse the term backup, and I think this is where you're 314 00:14:38,922 --> 00:14:42,972 getting to Curtis, where you have a very, very, very specific meaning for backup. 315 00:14:43,797 --> 00:14:44,217 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah. 316 00:14:44,727 --> 00:14:47,067 So here is my formal definition. 317 00:14:47,307 --> 00:14:52,257 A backup is a copy of data stored separately from the original and used to 318 00:14:52,262 --> 00:14:54,747 restore that data to its former state. 319 00:14:55,167 --> 00:14:58,637 Usually after the data has been deleted or damaged in some way. 320 00:14:59,767 --> 00:15:02,097 So, um, that 321 00:15:02,097 --> 00:15:03,447 is my definition. 322 00:15:03,687 --> 00:15:05,907 Well, we're going to, we're going to, right? 323 00:15:06,327 --> 00:15:09,657 So let's talk about what is a copy? 324 00:15:09,662 --> 00:15:14,217 How would you, in, in it sense, what would you like in the, in the sense 325 00:15:14,217 --> 00:15:15,417 that we're talking about backups? 326 00:15:15,837 --> 00:15:17,637 What would you call a copy 327 00:15:19,377 --> 00:15:23,247 Prasanna Malaiyandi: So I think in the easiest way to think of it 328 00:15:23,247 --> 00:15:28,467 right, is a copy is something that has its own independent identity. 329 00:15:29,457 --> 00:15:30,837 From the source, 330 00:15:31,477 --> 00:15:32,087 W. Curtis Preston: Mm-hmm. 331 00:15:32,127 --> 00:15:33,807 Prasanna Malaiyandi: So you could do something with the source. 332 00:15:33,807 --> 00:15:35,847 It doesn't affect the b uh, the copy. 333 00:15:36,117 --> 00:15:37,317 You could do something with the copy. 334 00:15:37,317 --> 00:15:38,427 It doesn't affect the source. 335 00:15:38,432 --> 00:15:41,337 Now, the copy may or may not be rewriteable, right? 336 00:15:41,337 --> 00:15:42,327 Depending on what you're looking for. 337 00:15:42,327 --> 00:15:44,547 In the case of backups, it's usually read only. 338 00:15:45,702 --> 00:15:46,122 W. Curtis Preston: Right. 339 00:15:46,122 --> 00:15:46,392 Yeah. 340 00:15:46,392 --> 00:15:47,322 So it, yeah. 341 00:15:47,322 --> 00:15:51,762 So I, again, formal definition, I've got a bite for bite reproduction of the original 342 00:15:52,062 --> 00:15:53,982 that contains the same content, right? 343 00:15:54,342 --> 00:15:57,582 It, it, and, you know, you, you were sort of differentiating it. 344 00:15:57,587 --> 00:15:59,142 It's not a snapshot, right? 345 00:15:59,142 --> 00:16:02,892 A snapshot is, is, and again, not an AWS snapshot. 346 00:16:02,897 --> 00:16:04,842 An AWS snapshot is actually a backup. 347 00:16:05,007 --> 00:16:05,217 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Yep. 348 00:16:06,447 --> 00:16:09,597 W. Curtis Preston: Uh, because it's actually an image copy. 349 00:16:10,167 --> 00:16:11,217 Um, right. 350 00:16:11,217 --> 00:16:14,157 It's a, it's, you know, you actually copy it into s3. 351 00:16:14,697 --> 00:16:16,362 Um, you know, an example of a copy. 352 00:16:16,917 --> 00:16:19,017 You know, you can use the copy command in Linux. 353 00:16:19,022 --> 00:16:22,557 You can use the, it's cp, you can use the copy command in Windows. 354 00:16:22,767 --> 00:16:26,087 That is the first part of the definition is that you're actually 355 00:16:26,092 --> 00:16:28,287 making a separate entity, I think. 356 00:16:28,317 --> 00:16:31,887 I think, um, it may or may not change form. 357 00:16:31,887 --> 00:16:32,547 What do I mean by. 358 00:16:34,047 --> 00:16:38,997 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Uh, so it could still be sitting in the same system in 359 00:16:38,997 --> 00:16:43,677 the exact same way, or like you were mentioning in the AWS case, right? 360 00:16:43,707 --> 00:16:48,807 Your copy actually exists in some other format, stored in some other type 361 00:16:48,807 --> 00:16:51,627 of storage, mainly AWS S3 versus EBS 362 00:16:51,792 --> 00:16:52,182 W. Curtis Preston: Right. 363 00:16:53,082 --> 00:16:55,932 Or you might put it inside a tar ball. 364 00:16:56,202 --> 00:16:56,682 Right. 365 00:16:56,742 --> 00:16:58,182 Um, you know, there's a number of things. 366 00:16:58,187 --> 00:17:00,102 Tar dump c pio, right? 367 00:17:00,552 --> 00:17:04,632 Um, you know, there are a number of formats that you can, uh, do. 368 00:17:04,692 --> 00:17:08,802 Uh, even you can put a bunch of files into just a compressed file, right? 369 00:17:09,412 --> 00:17:14,052 Um, that would still be a copy because you've created a separate instance. 370 00:17:14,322 --> 00:17:16,302 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Or you could encrypt the data when it gets sent 371 00:17:16,302 --> 00:17:19,842 over, and that's still considered a copy because you still have the ability 372 00:17:19,842 --> 00:17:21,372 to get to those original contents. 373 00:17:22,407 --> 00:17:23,067 W. Curtis Preston: Exactly. 374 00:17:23,607 --> 00:17:27,867 Um, like I said, it's also just as important to talk about what's not a copy. 375 00:17:27,867 --> 00:17:33,297 We talked about virtual snapshots, like with NetApps, also vss and Windows, right? 376 00:17:33,507 --> 00:17:37,617 The virtual snapshot, snapshot system creates a point in time that you can 377 00:17:37,617 --> 00:17:42,507 access for the purposes of backing up, but it by itself is not a backup. 378 00:17:42,507 --> 00:17:43,047 And why is. 379 00:17:43,952 --> 00:17:46,122 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Because it still lives in the same system. 380 00:17:46,122 --> 00:17:48,102 It's all linked together, right? 381 00:17:48,142 --> 00:17:48,632 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah, 382 00:17:49,122 --> 00:17:50,292 Prasanna Malaiyandi: It's all there. 383 00:17:50,712 --> 00:17:53,502 Like you delete the source and your copy gets gone. 384 00:17:54,912 --> 00:17:55,272 W. Curtis Preston: yeah, 385 00:17:55,272 --> 00:17:57,792 Prasanna Malaiyandi: fact, I think with vss you won't, you can't delete the source 386 00:17:57,792 --> 00:17:59,592 until you'll delete all your snapshots. 387 00:18:00,252 --> 00:18:02,172 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah, I think there's probably some protection there. 388 00:18:02,232 --> 00:18:02,622 Yeah. 389 00:18:02,772 --> 00:18:06,372 Um, but essentially the, the snapshot relies on the original. 390 00:18:06,552 --> 00:18:10,302 It's funny, we use a lot of the terms that mean the same thing, right? 391 00:18:10,902 --> 00:18:16,812 Like, cause I say, I say, uh, the, you know, the EBS snapshot, well, 392 00:18:16,812 --> 00:18:18,132 it's not a snapshot, it's an image. 393 00:18:18,132 --> 00:18:18,552 Copy. 394 00:18:18,792 --> 00:18:20,462 Image is just another word for Snapchat. 395 00:18:20,642 --> 00:18:21,382 But anyway, 396 00:18:22,542 --> 00:18:23,802 Prasanna Malaiyandi: We should just start talking about 397 00:18:23,802 --> 00:18:25,572 everything as like photographs. 398 00:18:26,292 --> 00:18:26,682 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah. 399 00:18:26,802 --> 00:18:30,372 Well, I talked about, you know, I, I used to use the phrase that a snapshot, 400 00:18:30,462 --> 00:18:36,222 like a NetApp snapshot is as useful as a snapshot of your house when your house 401 00:18:36,222 --> 00:18:44,132 burns down, um, the . So, uh, and then I have stored separately from the original, 402 00:18:44,137 --> 00:18:46,602 like we're working through the definition. 403 00:18:47,172 --> 00:18:49,452 Um, and what do I mean by that? 404 00:18:50,007 --> 00:18:53,427 Prasanna Malaiyandi: So I think, I know we haven't gotten to the 3 21 rule, 405 00:18:53,427 --> 00:18:58,077 which we'll get to at some point, but I think the key with this point is if 406 00:18:58,082 --> 00:19:04,077 something happens to that source, right, be it the system or that volume or 407 00:19:04,077 --> 00:19:07,167 that file, it still exists separately. 408 00:19:08,052 --> 00:19:10,332 And could still be recovered for, depending on what type of 409 00:19:10,332 --> 00:19:12,402 failure you're looking for, right? 410 00:19:12,402 --> 00:19:17,622 It you might need to handle like a site blows up or that the array dies, or 411 00:19:17,622 --> 00:19:21,702 the storage system dies, and therefore you want a copy on some completely 412 00:19:21,702 --> 00:19:25,842 different storage system, maybe a completely separate location, et cetera. 413 00:19:26,142 --> 00:19:28,152 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah, I, I think you're, you're even going 414 00:19:28,152 --> 00:19:29,382 farther than what I'm saying. 415 00:19:29,382 --> 00:19:36,882 So for example, if I go into a Word doc, right, and I copy that Word doc 416 00:19:36,972 --> 00:19:39,612 right next to it, that is a copy. 417 00:19:39,612 --> 00:19:40,692 It's not a backup. 418 00:19:40,957 --> 00:19:41,377 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Yep. 419 00:19:41,772 --> 00:19:43,932 W. Curtis Preston: Not in, in, in the full definition. 420 00:19:43,932 --> 00:19:44,322 Right. 421 00:19:44,712 --> 00:19:50,382 Um, if I copy it to another hard drive, that is then a backup, right? 422 00:19:50,472 --> 00:19:52,962 Um, or well, it could be a backup. 423 00:19:53,052 --> 00:19:53,232 It 424 00:19:53,387 --> 00:19:53,737 Prasanna Malaiyandi: It 425 00:19:53,922 --> 00:19:56,292 W. Curtis Preston: it meets that, it meets that next definition. 426 00:19:56,862 --> 00:20:01,572 And then I've got, and this is again, this is a big one for the 427 00:20:01,572 --> 00:20:04,332 purposes of restoring, right? 428 00:20:05,362 --> 00:20:10,467 So, Which as opposed to retrieving, which we're gonna talk about 429 00:20:10,587 --> 00:20:13,077 in, in the archive, um, space. 430 00:20:13,077 --> 00:20:13,437 Right. 431 00:20:13,977 --> 00:20:14,607 Um, 432 00:20:14,802 --> 00:20:16,102 Prasanna Malaiyandi: And what is restoring Curtis 433 00:20:16,887 --> 00:20:21,837 W. Curtis Preston: yeah, so, um, I mean it's essentially bringing 434 00:20:21,837 --> 00:20:23,807 something back to life, , right? 435 00:20:23,977 --> 00:20:27,357 So it, it's, it's, it's taking that copy. 436 00:20:27,957 --> 00:20:32,367 And then bringing it back to, generally speaking, it's, it doesn't have to 437 00:20:32,367 --> 00:20:34,497 be back to the, to the same place. 438 00:20:34,497 --> 00:20:38,757 You could do an alternate server or alternate location restore, but generally 439 00:20:38,757 --> 00:20:43,197 speaking, you're taking the copy that you made and stored somewhere else, and 440 00:20:43,202 --> 00:20:48,867 then you're bringing that copy back for the purposes of basically resurrecting 441 00:20:49,197 --> 00:20:54,837 either something that blew up, caught on fire, got deleted, got fat fingered. 442 00:20:55,617 --> 00:20:57,627 Uh, got ransomware. 443 00:20:58,317 --> 00:21:03,617 Um, by the way, ransomware also a ver also a, no, not a verb, I just made it a verb. 444 00:21:04,122 --> 00:21:05,382 Prasanna Malaiyandi: There you go, Curtis. 445 00:21:05,517 --> 00:21:06,617 W. Curtis Preston: got ransomware. 446 00:21:07,167 --> 00:21:14,247 Um, yeah, and I mean that, you know, another, another case 447 00:21:14,247 --> 00:21:17,367 would be like you got a triple disc failure in a RAID6 array. 448 00:21:17,792 --> 00:21:18,212 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Yep. 449 00:21:18,867 --> 00:21:20,817 W. Curtis Preston: It's a bad day, right? 450 00:21:20,997 --> 00:21:25,137 Um, and so you need to go and get your backup and restore it back. 451 00:21:25,437 --> 00:21:28,017 And, and again, this all sounds really pedantic. 452 00:21:28,017 --> 00:21:28,587 I think 453 00:21:29,097 --> 00:21:29,937 Prasanna Malaiyandi: But it's important. 454 00:21:30,627 --> 00:21:33,087 W. Curtis Preston: it, it's when we get into the discussion about backup 455 00:21:33,087 --> 00:21:35,307 and how different that is from this. 456 00:21:35,997 --> 00:21:37,077 Prasanna Malaiyandi: You meant archive, 457 00:21:37,607 --> 00:21:38,787 W. Curtis Preston: what did I say? 458 00:21:39,087 --> 00:21:41,697 Prasanna Malaiyandi: you said When we get into backup, how different it is than this 459 00:21:42,927 --> 00:21:45,867 W. Curtis Preston: This is so hard to do this verbally. 460 00:21:46,557 --> 00:21:57,747 Um, and, um, the, um, uh, the other thing is this is sort of a general rule. 461 00:21:57,867 --> 00:22:03,357 Generally speaking, we're going to use a backup to restore to 462 00:22:03,357 --> 00:22:05,757 either the most recent time. 463 00:22:06,717 --> 00:22:11,817 The most recent time we have a backup of, or some other relatively 464 00:22:11,817 --> 00:22:14,967 recent point in time prior to that. 465 00:22:16,137 --> 00:22:21,327 For example, if you got a, you know, generally speaking file system dies, 466 00:22:21,747 --> 00:22:25,617 you're gonna restore whatever was on that file system to as most recent, 467 00:22:25,827 --> 00:22:29,307 you know, the most recent backup that you have, generally speaking, 468 00:22:29,727 --> 00:22:31,317 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Cause you'll want the latest data, right? 469 00:22:31,587 --> 00:22:32,727 For the most part, yeah. 470 00:22:33,147 --> 00:22:35,577 W. Curtis Preston: Sometimes you did something stupid and you dropped a 471 00:22:35,577 --> 00:22:39,387 table in a database and you're like, oh crap, I did that at two o'clock. 472 00:22:39,387 --> 00:22:43,977 I'm gonna restore to 1:59 PM I, I have a backup until 2 0 5. 473 00:22:44,277 --> 00:22:47,397 I don't wanna restore to 2 0 5, cuz that's when the bad thing happened. 474 00:22:47,697 --> 00:22:52,797 I'm gonna restore to 1 59, but still I'm going to, you know, this afternoon. 475 00:22:53,337 --> 00:22:59,097 Um, even in an extreme case, um, I might need to restore. 476 00:23:00,777 --> 00:23:04,557 I might have had a ransomware attack that had a dwell time. 477 00:23:05,112 --> 00:23:09,192 Of a couple of weeks and I might need to restore to dwell time. 478 00:23:09,642 --> 00:23:10,842 Uh, dwell time. 479 00:23:11,172 --> 00:23:11,682 Thanks. 480 00:23:12,462 --> 00:23:17,862 The dwell time for a piece of malware is how long it hangs out, uh, before 481 00:23:17,862 --> 00:23:19,992 it delivers its payload, right? 482 00:23:19,992 --> 00:23:23,882 So you might have, or before it's discovered, so you might have. 483 00:23:25,017 --> 00:23:29,367 The, the, the, the, the dwell time, the average or mean dwell time for 484 00:23:29,367 --> 00:23:32,817 ransomware is actually well over two weeks, so we might have to 485 00:23:32,817 --> 00:23:37,287 go back and restore something to prior to that from two weeks ago. 486 00:23:38,307 --> 00:23:41,577 You know, when we don't restore from, generally speaking, 487 00:23:43,317 --> 00:23:43,737 Prasanna Malaiyandi: What? 488 00:23:45,497 --> 00:23:46,057 W. Curtis Preston: guess. 489 00:23:46,147 --> 00:23:47,627 Prasanna Malaiyandi: don't Oh, like a year ago, 490 00:23:48,312 --> 00:23:50,772 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah, generally speaking, we don't 491 00:23:50,772 --> 00:23:52,542 restore stuff from a year ago. 492 00:23:52,782 --> 00:23:55,062 Again, there are exceptions to every rule. 493 00:23:55,272 --> 00:24:00,552 Let's say it's the annual accounting report and we can't find it, and we need 494 00:24:00,557 --> 00:24:03,552 the one from a year ago, that's a restore, 495 00:24:03,777 --> 00:24:04,107 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Yeah. 496 00:24:04,647 --> 00:24:05,217 But in that 497 00:24:05,217 --> 00:24:05,937 case, you're most. 498 00:24:06,882 --> 00:24:09,672 W. Curtis Preston: It was supposed to be here, and yeah, in that case, your 499 00:24:09,672 --> 00:24:11,022 most recent backup would not have. 500 00:24:12,102 --> 00:24:14,532 You would have to go back to before someone deleted it. 501 00:24:14,532 --> 00:24:14,832 Right? 502 00:24:14,832 --> 00:24:16,452 It was supposed to be here, but it's not. 503 00:24:16,452 --> 00:24:17,412 So we're gonna put it back. 504 00:24:17,442 --> 00:24:19,812 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Yeah, and in that case, it's not like you're restoring 505 00:24:19,902 --> 00:24:21,222 the entire file system, right? 506 00:24:21,222 --> 00:24:25,032 You're probably just restoring that one report, which you needed, which you 507 00:24:25,032 --> 00:24:27,282 didn't discover was gone until yesterday. 508 00:24:29,052 --> 00:24:30,702 W. Curtis Preston: That sounds, that sounds correct. 509 00:24:31,602 --> 00:24:35,082 Um, so again, we're speaking like. 510 00:24:36,132 --> 00:24:37,602 Hypothetically here or whatever. 511 00:24:38,142 --> 00:24:42,162 So the, the next thing I've got here is about how does a restore work? 512 00:24:42,162 --> 00:24:46,032 And again, that's gonna sound pedantic, but again, it will make a lot more 513 00:24:46,037 --> 00:24:49,512 sense in the next episode when we talk about comparing it to archive. 514 00:24:51,282 --> 00:24:53,232 So what do I need? 515 00:24:53,232 --> 00:24:57,852 So, so I, so I'm your, I'm your back, your friendly neighborhood backup guy. 516 00:24:59,292 --> 00:25:03,582 I, and there's, there's a thing. 517 00:25:04,527 --> 00:25:04,797 Say 518 00:25:05,142 --> 00:25:06,552 Prasanna Malaiyandi: So I deleted something. 519 00:25:07,137 --> 00:25:08,157 W. Curtis Preston: you deleted something. 520 00:25:08,157 --> 00:25:08,487 You del, 521 00:25:08,592 --> 00:25:11,442 Prasanna Malaiyandi: you and I'm like, Curtis, can you, yeah, I deleted a file. 522 00:25:11,442 --> 00:25:14,382 I'm like, Curtis, I need my backup from, or I need my file. 523 00:25:14,382 --> 00:25:15,432 I can't find it. 524 00:25:16,182 --> 00:25:17,172 I need this one. 525 00:25:17,352 --> 00:25:18,642 Tell me, can you get it back 526 00:25:18,657 --> 00:25:19,557 W. Curtis Preston: what do you need? 527 00:25:19,617 --> 00:25:20,067 What? 528 00:25:20,337 --> 00:25:21,897 What do you need to give me? 529 00:25:22,767 --> 00:25:24,507 For me to help me? 530 00:25:24,657 --> 00:25:26,637 Help you, help me. 531 00:25:26,727 --> 00:25:27,567 Help you. 532 00:25:27,672 --> 00:25:31,692 Prasanna Malaiyandi: So I need to tell you potentially what file I'm looking for, 533 00:25:32,217 --> 00:25:32,847 W. Curtis Preston: The file. 534 00:25:33,267 --> 00:25:35,157 And what does that, what does that mean? 535 00:25:35,202 --> 00:25:38,082 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Which may be the exact, like the thing I'm looking 536 00:25:38,082 --> 00:25:41,992 for, which might be the actual name, or it might be a directory, right? 537 00:25:42,342 --> 00:25:48,282 It might be on a particular system, or it might be, I don't know which one it's on. 538 00:25:48,282 --> 00:25:50,712 I just know I have a file somewhere that is. 539 00:25:52,137 --> 00:25:54,777 W. Curtis Preston: Okay, so you, you're saying you might not know. 540 00:25:55,572 --> 00:25:58,932 I'll say the less you just, the less you give me, the 541 00:25:58,932 --> 00:26:00,162 harder it is gonna be for me to 542 00:26:00,162 --> 00:26:00,432 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Yeah, 543 00:26:00,462 --> 00:26:00,972 W. Curtis Preston: that file. 544 00:26:01,152 --> 00:26:01,512 Right. 545 00:26:01,992 --> 00:26:06,882 Generally speaking, if you come to me and you say, uh, I have a home 546 00:26:06,887 --> 00:26:13,002 directory on Apollo, it's called Home one Curtis, and there's a file in there. 547 00:26:13,002 --> 00:26:16,752 There was a file in there called Resume dot doc. 548 00:26:17,832 --> 00:26:21,822 Um, That's how it's pronounced. 549 00:26:21,822 --> 00:26:22,962 It's not pronounced any other way. 550 00:26:22,962 --> 00:26:26,472 Resume dot doc and it's gone. 551 00:26:27,042 --> 00:26:27,552 Right? 552 00:26:28,002 --> 00:26:28,842 I need it. 553 00:26:28,842 --> 00:26:32,622 Or, or more specifically, let's say I screwed it up. 554 00:26:32,772 --> 00:26:33,042 I 555 00:26:33,162 --> 00:26:34,932 Prasanna Malaiyandi: I need it from, yeah. 556 00:26:34,992 --> 00:26:35,502 W. Curtis Preston: Right? 557 00:26:35,562 --> 00:26:36,942 I need it from two days ago. 558 00:26:37,122 --> 00:26:40,752 So what did you just give me if you, if you, what 559 00:26:40,752 --> 00:26:42,282 information did you just give me? 560 00:26:42,612 --> 00:26:45,672 Prasanna Malaiyandi: So I gave you the what I need restored, the 561 00:26:45,672 --> 00:26:48,792 when I need it restored and where. 562 00:26:50,397 --> 00:26:50,847 W. Curtis Preston: Right. 563 00:26:51,057 --> 00:26:56,307 So in different words, you gave me the server, you gave me the directory. 564 00:26:56,517 --> 00:27:00,507 You gave me the file name, you gave me the timeframe, right? 565 00:27:00,987 --> 00:27:05,607 You gave me all those things and all those things were one thing, 566 00:27:06,077 --> 00:27:06,497 Prasanna Malaiyandi: yep. 567 00:27:07,947 --> 00:27:08,367 W. Curtis Preston: right? 568 00:27:08,727 --> 00:27:10,797 A server, a directory, a file. 569 00:27:10,797 --> 00:27:14,337 Now you can leave out one or two of those , right? 570 00:27:14,757 --> 00:27:18,357 You're like, I don't know what server, that's gonna be hard. 571 00:27:19,337 --> 00:27:23,757 Uh, it's on Apollo, but I'm not sure which directory also gonna be hard. 572 00:27:26,187 --> 00:27:29,547 It's on Apollo, it's in the home, one file system. 573 00:27:29,907 --> 00:27:32,997 Not sure which directory, and I'm not sure what its name is. 574 00:27:35,007 --> 00:27:38,187 That's gonna be really, really, if you don't know the name of the 575 00:27:38,187 --> 00:27:42,357 thing you're looking for, that it's gonna be, and again, you're 576 00:27:42,747 --> 00:27:45,427 people that are used to backups, are listening to this and they're. 577 00:27:46,377 --> 00:27:48,777 Yeah, this makes all perfect sense. 578 00:27:48,777 --> 00:27:53,487 Again, this will all make more sense why I'm making such a big deal about 579 00:27:53,487 --> 00:27:59,067 this when we get to, um, a retrieve, which is very, very different. 580 00:27:59,547 --> 00:28:03,957 So, so I, I have something that I took the trouble to put in italics 581 00:28:04,917 --> 00:28:11,097 in the book and it says, A restore returns a single thing to a single point in time. 582 00:28:11,397 --> 00:28:12,327 That's it. 583 00:28:13,257 --> 00:28:15,117 Now, you may do multiple restores. 584 00:28:15,207 --> 00:28:15,627 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Yep. 585 00:28:15,957 --> 00:28:19,137 W. Curtis Preston: You may restore multiple things to, to a point in time 586 00:28:19,137 --> 00:28:23,277 or even, I think less likely multiple things to multiple points in time. 587 00:28:23,997 --> 00:28:29,277 But generally speaking, a restore restores a single thing to a single point in time. 588 00:28:29,547 --> 00:28:30,147 That's it. 589 00:28:31,257 --> 00:28:31,947 You have any problem with that? 590 00:28:32,412 --> 00:28:33,612 Prasanna Malaiyandi: No, it makes sense. 591 00:28:34,152 --> 00:28:36,342 I was gonna chime in and say that. 592 00:28:38,187 --> 00:28:42,657 There are probably a lot of users though who don't know what their files 593 00:28:42,657 --> 00:28:44,997 are called or where their files live. 594 00:28:45,417 --> 00:28:47,847 I'm just thinking about like if you think like you create Word 595 00:28:47,847 --> 00:28:51,147 documents or you create spreadsheets, like you don't know the exact name 596 00:28:51,147 --> 00:28:53,607 of that file that you're working 597 00:28:53,817 --> 00:28:54,307 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah. 598 00:28:54,627 --> 00:28:55,017 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Right. 599 00:28:55,047 --> 00:28:56,277 And you don't know exactly. 600 00:28:56,277 --> 00:28:57,687 Like maybe it lives in my desktop. 601 00:28:57,687 --> 00:28:59,217 Maybe it was in documents folder. 602 00:28:59,217 --> 00:28:59,487 Right. 603 00:28:59,487 --> 00:29:00,467 Or my documents. 604 00:29:00,472 --> 00:29:06,537 Like all these things like make it hard as a backup operator. 605 00:29:07,047 --> 00:29:11,307 To fulfill these requests, and so the more specific you can be as an end 606 00:29:11,427 --> 00:29:11,917 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah. 607 00:29:12,477 --> 00:29:16,197 Prasanna Malaiyandi: the easier it is to find exactly what you're looking for and 608 00:29:16,202 --> 00:29:18,507 restore it back as quickly as possible. 609 00:29:19,437 --> 00:29:25,077 W. Curtis Preston: And, and if, depending on the backup product that you have, a 610 00:29:25,077 --> 00:29:31,797 very small subset of backup products can do what's called a full text search on. 611 00:29:32,757 --> 00:29:34,107 Restore, right? 612 00:29:34,107 --> 00:29:37,347 You're like, I don't know where this file is or what its name is. 613 00:29:37,407 --> 00:29:41,967 I know that the file I'm looking for has the phrase work experience, 614 00:29:42,172 --> 00:29:42,182 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Yeah. 615 00:29:44,382 --> 00:29:44,662 Yep. 616 00:29:45,042 --> 00:29:47,922 W. Curtis Preston: Can you find me any file that I own that 617 00:29:47,922 --> 00:29:50,232 has the phrase work experience? 618 00:29:50,502 --> 00:29:52,572 Well, we have this one file, it's called resume. 619 00:29:52,812 --> 00:29:53,292 No, no, no. 620 00:29:53,292 --> 00:29:53,952 It's not Resume. 621 00:29:53,952 --> 00:29:54,462 Not resume. 622 00:29:54,462 --> 00:29:56,022 It's resume dot. 623 00:29:56,772 --> 00:29:57,882 Can you, yeah, that's the one. 624 00:29:57,882 --> 00:29:58,572 I think that's the one. 625 00:29:58,577 --> 00:29:59,232 Please restore that. 626 00:29:59,712 --> 00:30:01,602 There are a few products. 627 00:30:01,662 --> 00:30:06,612 I know Comal, for example, has full tech search against, um, I don't 628 00:30:06,612 --> 00:30:10,902 know others that do that against sort of normal, regular files, 629 00:30:10,992 --> 00:30:14,202 Prasanna Malaiyandi: I think, uh, Dell has a capability as well as an 630 00:30:14,277 --> 00:30:15,147 W. Curtis Preston: in Dell? 631 00:30:15,147 --> 00:30:15,717 In what? 632 00:30:16,527 --> 00:30:17,457 In what product? 633 00:30:17,682 --> 00:30:20,772 Prasanna Malaiyandi: of their data protection search product, I believe, 634 00:30:21,552 --> 00:30:24,222 which allows it to index, uh, backups. 635 00:30:26,127 --> 00:30:29,247 W. Curtis Preston: Um, yeah, so there's a few products out there that do that. 636 00:30:29,247 --> 00:30:31,377 Generally speaking, most backup products do not. 637 00:30:32,397 --> 00:30:38,487 Um, so there's this little thing here called the 3 21 rule, which 638 00:30:39,087 --> 00:30:40,587 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Curtis' favorite topic? 639 00:30:40,617 --> 00:30:41,427 Oh my gosh. 640 00:30:41,667 --> 00:30:42,177 You know what? 641 00:30:42,237 --> 00:30:46,377 I don't think we've talked about the 3, 2, 1 rule in many, many episodes. 642 00:30:46,812 --> 00:30:49,542 W. Curtis Preston: Really cause it, it used to come up every, it 643 00:30:49,557 --> 00:30:50,227 Prasanna Malaiyandi: I know. 644 00:30:50,412 --> 00:30:50,952 W. Curtis Preston: episode. 645 00:30:51,672 --> 00:30:56,772 Um, I, I just, I just recorded an episode with a, with a, I was a guest 646 00:30:56,772 --> 00:30:58,002 on another podcast this morning. 647 00:30:58,007 --> 00:30:59,232 I talked about the 3, 2, 1 rule. 648 00:30:59,832 --> 00:31:05,742 So to me, the 3, 2, 1 rule is sort of the most, so that was sort of 649 00:31:05,742 --> 00:31:07,392 the classic definition of a backup. 650 00:31:07,392 --> 00:31:13,077 Another way to decide if something, A copy as I make quotes in the air, 651 00:31:14,037 --> 00:31:18,837 or, well, if you have a backup, it's to see if you have something that 652 00:31:18,837 --> 00:31:20,277 complies with the three to one rule. 653 00:31:20,277 --> 00:31:25,367 And we had the, the guy who coined the 3 21 rule, uh, Peter Krogh. 654 00:31:25,382 --> 00:31:26,787 We had him on the podcast. 655 00:31:26,787 --> 00:31:29,967 I should put a link in the show description was a fascinating 656 00:31:29,967 --> 00:31:31,947 discussion right back in 1991. 657 00:31:31,952 --> 00:31:34,538 Little did he know he was coining a term that would be. 658 00:31:35,232 --> 00:31:36,972 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Well, and he's a photographer, 659 00:31:37,677 --> 00:31:38,667 W. Curtis Preston: he was a photographer. 660 00:31:38,667 --> 00:31:39,057 Yeah. 661 00:31:39,447 --> 00:31:39,897 Yeah. 662 00:31:39,927 --> 00:31:42,837 And, um, here it is, we're, you know, we're in the next 663 00:31:42,837 --> 00:31:45,177 century, cuz he did it in 1991. 664 00:31:45,897 --> 00:31:47,007 We're in the next century. 665 00:31:47,037 --> 00:31:50,457 30, 32 years later. 666 00:31:50,997 --> 00:31:53,697 And we're using this definition that he wrote in some book about 667 00:31:53,697 --> 00:31:57,247 digital photography to argue whether or not something is or is not a 668 00:31:57,252 --> 00:31:58,767 backup, but I think it's solid. 669 00:31:58,767 --> 00:31:59,037 Right? 670 00:31:59,247 --> 00:32:02,817 So 3, 2, 1, 3 copies of the data on two different media, one of 671 00:32:02,822 --> 00:32:04,047 which is somewhere else, right? 672 00:32:04,047 --> 00:32:06,837 That that's a somewhat modified version of the original. 673 00:32:07,137 --> 00:32:11,367 But I think that's, that keeps the spirit of the original three copies. 674 00:32:11,747 --> 00:32:12,397 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Y three. 675 00:32:12,477 --> 00:32:13,827 W. Curtis Preston: wanna have different versions. 676 00:32:14,127 --> 00:32:14,547 You know? 677 00:32:14,547 --> 00:32:18,117 He's like, again, go to where, go to where he was originally talking about 678 00:32:18,117 --> 00:32:19,407 you just don't want one copy of your. 679 00:32:20,337 --> 00:32:20,697 Right. 680 00:32:20,727 --> 00:32:25,077 And by the way, he did include the original in his copy, right? 681 00:32:25,227 --> 00:32:28,377 So he's like, you just don't want you, you took a really important picture. 682 00:32:28,557 --> 00:32:29,997 You don't want this really important picture. 683 00:32:29,997 --> 00:32:35,157 You have there to be only one copy of it on, you know, only one piece of media. 684 00:32:35,427 --> 00:32:41,337 So he is like, let's have three of those, right on at least two different media. 685 00:32:41,337 --> 00:32:45,297 What he was concerned about, there was risk types, right? 686 00:32:45,447 --> 00:32:46,947 Um, and so 687 00:32:47,517 --> 00:32:49,677 Prasanna Malaiyandi: And especially back then with the hard discs. 688 00:32:49,677 --> 00:32:49,977 Right. 689 00:32:49,977 --> 00:32:52,497 Not being very reliable. 690 00:32:52,872 --> 00:32:53,472 At the 691 00:32:53,477 --> 00:32:55,002 time and consumer devices. 692 00:32:55,782 --> 00:32:58,602 W. Curtis Preston: it was early digital photography days, right? 693 00:32:58,607 --> 00:33:02,862 So they didn't have as much solid state media was not as prevalent. 694 00:33:02,862 --> 00:33:03,582 It is today. 695 00:33:04,002 --> 00:33:09,042 But even, even now, like we don't want, what he's saying is he, he 696 00:33:09,042 --> 00:33:11,652 doesn't want you to use the same. 697 00:33:12,312 --> 00:33:15,522 Um, you don't want to copy to the exact same thing. 698 00:33:15,732 --> 00:33:20,622 This, by the way, is why I've always historically had a problem with, again, 699 00:33:20,772 --> 00:33:25,902 big fan of Net app, big fan of net app snapshots, but why I always had difficulty 700 00:33:25,907 --> 00:33:28,722 with an all NetApp solution, right? 701 00:33:28,727 --> 00:33:29,022 Even 702 00:33:29,037 --> 00:33:30,777 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Nice app and replicate is awesome. 703 00:33:30,777 --> 00:33:31,227 Come on, 704 00:33:31,527 --> 00:33:33,717 W. Curtis Preston: Snap and replicate is awesome, right? 705 00:33:33,777 --> 00:33:36,837 There's just this little part of me that goes, yeah, but it is all the 706 00:33:36,837 --> 00:33:40,227 same stuff if there's some sort of rolling code, you know what I mean? 707 00:33:40,407 --> 00:33:42,597 So it that what, that doesn't really stick it, that 708 00:33:42,747 --> 00:33:42,957 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Yeah. 709 00:33:42,957 --> 00:33:43,437 Having, 710 00:33:43,527 --> 00:33:44,517 W. Curtis Preston: the two aspect. 711 00:33:44,667 --> 00:33:46,557 Prasanna Malaiyandi: having developed that product, I 712 00:33:46,587 --> 00:33:48,717 totally understand your concerns. 713 00:33:51,042 --> 00:33:54,162 W. Curtis Preston: And then the last part is, uh, one of which is somewhere else. 714 00:33:54,162 --> 00:33:55,512 This is really, really important. 715 00:33:55,512 --> 00:34:00,042 And that is that you, that you store a copy of it somewhere else, 716 00:34:00,072 --> 00:34:01,422 Prasanna Malaiyandi: What does somewhere else mean? 717 00:34:01,452 --> 00:34:05,752 Like, is it I'm at home, so I have my laptop and I have a disk drive 718 00:34:05,772 --> 00:34:08,892 sitting on the shelf right next to me plugged in all the time. 719 00:34:08,892 --> 00:34:09,792 Like, what is that? 720 00:34:09,792 --> 00:34:11,962 Because I think that's what people struggle with is what's the one. 721 00:34:12,882 --> 00:34:16,422 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah, well, the it, the original definition just set offsite. 722 00:34:16,752 --> 00:34:20,682 I changed it to somewhere else because there's no longer an offsite 723 00:34:20,682 --> 00:34:21,882 when we talk about the cloud. 724 00:34:22,212 --> 00:34:22,632 Right. 725 00:34:22,692 --> 00:34:27,732 And somewhere else is, it's relative, depending on what we're talking about. 726 00:34:28,032 --> 00:34:31,872 So if you're talking about a laptop in your house, I mean a 727 00:34:31,872 --> 00:34:33,582 copy that is not in your house. 728 00:34:33,722 --> 00:34:34,142 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Yep. 729 00:34:34,782 --> 00:34:35,232 W. Curtis Preston: Right. 730 00:34:35,502 --> 00:34:39,942 Um, if you're talking a data center somewhere else is not a server over in 731 00:34:39,942 --> 00:34:46,542 the corner of the data center, uh, O H V Cloud, I'm talk, or o vh, o VH cloud. 732 00:34:46,542 --> 00:34:48,132 I'm talking to you, right? 733 00:34:48,312 --> 00:34:51,582 This is from that disaster back in the beginning of 2021. 734 00:34:52,062 --> 00:34:55,632 Where we discovered the PE people that had paid for the commercial backup 735 00:34:55,632 --> 00:35:00,462 service had their backup stored in another server in the same data center. 736 00:35:01,032 --> 00:35:06,852 That was never, that did not conform to the 3 21 rule, um, because it 737 00:35:06,852 --> 00:35:08,532 wasn't, the one was not offsite. 738 00:35:08,592 --> 00:35:08,982 Right. 739 00:35:09,462 --> 00:35:10,002 Um, 740 00:35:10,152 --> 00:35:13,422 Prasanna Malaiyandi: The other thing I wanna add for the one is, even if you're 741 00:35:13,427 --> 00:35:18,102 using a cloud, I think it's important, and maybe this bleeds more into like 742 00:35:18,107 --> 00:35:23,562 the ransomware side, is you almost want that one to be an isolated copy, right? 743 00:35:23,567 --> 00:35:25,782 That's kind of what the one somewhere else means. 744 00:35:26,022 --> 00:35:29,172 So even if you're in the cloud, if you're storing in a different, say a 745 00:35:29,172 --> 00:35:34,782 region, you probably want that in a separate account as well to make sure. 746 00:35:34,857 --> 00:35:35,907 W. Curtis Preston: at you on the video. 747 00:35:36,087 --> 00:35:36,477 Yeah, 748 00:35:36,792 --> 00:35:39,072 Prasanna Malaiyandi: That it's not all accessible, you know, 749 00:35:39,657 --> 00:35:40,347 W. Curtis Preston: exactly. 750 00:35:40,347 --> 00:35:44,247 It it, well, the, the idea, again, we look at the idea behind the one 751 00:35:44,277 --> 00:35:45,687 and, and the, and behind the two. 752 00:35:45,687 --> 00:35:47,337 It's to, it's to, to. 753 00:35:47,712 --> 00:35:48,552 Prasanna Malaiyandi: reduce risk. 754 00:35:49,227 --> 00:35:54,177 W. Curtis Preston: Well, it's reduce risk to make sure that the, um, the, the 755 00:35:54,177 --> 00:35:59,847 copy of the data is not, if something bad happens to the primary, that bad 756 00:35:59,847 --> 00:36:03,777 thing won't also happen and when, and so you have to look at the things that 757 00:36:03,777 --> 00:36:06,987 can happen to your primary when you're in the cloud, when you're in AWS or 758 00:36:07,077 --> 00:36:11,007 Azure or, or GCP or wherever you, um, 759 00:36:11,637 --> 00:36:13,467 if someone deletes your account. 760 00:36:14,892 --> 00:36:15,612 Prasanna Malaiyandi: I said O vh. 761 00:36:15,617 --> 00:36:15,942 Cloud 762 00:36:17,022 --> 00:36:23,412 W. Curtis Preston: Oh, I, I don't they went public after that. 763 00:36:23,682 --> 00:36:24,312 Do you know that? 764 00:36:24,672 --> 00:36:26,502 Oh, I, I'm sorry. 765 00:36:26,792 --> 00:36:31,242 I, I, I hope somebody listens to this and I, I would love to be a, 766 00:36:31,332 --> 00:36:35,502 an expert witness on that case on behalf of the, of the plaintiffs. 767 00:36:35,792 --> 00:36:38,382 Anyway, there is a big class action lawsuit. 768 00:36:39,132 --> 00:36:39,612 Um, 769 00:36:39,822 --> 00:36:40,152 Prasanna Malaiyandi: still 770 00:36:40,182 --> 00:36:40,992 W. Curtis Preston: customers anyway. 771 00:36:42,012 --> 00:36:46,422 Um, and I'm with, I'm with them because this isn't like, this isn't 772 00:36:46,422 --> 00:36:48,083 like it was AWS customers and. 773 00:36:48,537 --> 00:36:51,207 And they had backup available to them and they didn't use it. 774 00:36:51,687 --> 00:36:56,787 They paid for a separate backup service, which OVH provided and charged them for. 775 00:36:57,087 --> 00:37:02,067 And O VH stored the data, allegedly in servers, in the data center. 776 00:37:02,067 --> 00:37:06,147 And when they lost it, uh, their actual, I saw one quote from 777 00:37:06,567 --> 00:37:10,167 somebody at OVH and said that they never, they never represented 778 00:37:10,167 --> 00:37:11,517 that it was stored anywhere else. 779 00:37:12,442 --> 00:37:14,652 And I, you may recall when we, when we 780 00:37:14,652 --> 00:37:18,372 interviewed somebody from there, they, they said that 781 00:37:18,372 --> 00:37:19,422 there was a phrase in there. 782 00:37:19,422 --> 00:37:24,012 It said something about it stored, it had some weird name. 783 00:37:24,372 --> 00:37:27,492 It stored like physically separate or something. 784 00:37:27,492 --> 00:37:31,092 Some, some weird name, but it didn't, it didn't specify offsite anyway. 785 00:37:31,302 --> 00:37:31,542 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Yep. 786 00:37:32,712 --> 00:37:35,062 But, but I think also for the one. 787 00:37:36,072 --> 00:37:39,762 This is where I think when it was initially intended, right, that 788 00:37:39,762 --> 00:37:43,332 somewhere else or offsite, it's about having that air gap, right? 789 00:37:43,337 --> 00:37:44,052 That's, I think, another 790 00:37:44,262 --> 00:37:44,652 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah. 791 00:37:45,102 --> 00:37:46,482 Prasanna Malaiyandi: right, that people talk about. 792 00:37:46,482 --> 00:37:51,072 And now with the cloud and everything being connected, it's truly hard to have 793 00:37:51,072 --> 00:37:55,512 an actual physical air gap, which is where you have like virtual air gaps. 794 00:37:55,512 --> 00:37:56,652 So, sorry, go ahead, Curtis. 795 00:37:57,102 --> 00:37:57,912 W. Curtis Preston: No, no. 796 00:37:57,912 --> 00:37:58,452 Yeah. 797 00:37:58,992 --> 00:38:00,732 That's all, that's all correct, right? 798 00:38:00,732 --> 00:38:03,022 You, you, you, you can't. 799 00:38:03,897 --> 00:38:05,787 At least not easily. 800 00:38:05,907 --> 00:38:09,837 You can't create the physical, the actual physical air gap that we used to where 801 00:38:09,837 --> 00:38:13,827 you'd put it on a tape, put that tape in a box, and you hand that box to a man in 802 00:38:13,827 --> 00:38:19,257 a van and he takes it to somewhere and you, you need guns to go get it right. 803 00:38:19,942 --> 00:38:24,862 That doesn't really exist in most cases, but you can separate it as much 804 00:38:24,862 --> 00:38:27,922 as possible, have it in a different account, have it in a different region. 805 00:38:28,432 --> 00:38:31,672 Um, whatever you do, don't have it in the same account, in the same region. 806 00:38:31,672 --> 00:38:33,712 That's just, that's what happened to, uh, 807 00:38:34,582 --> 00:38:34,702 what 808 00:38:34,722 --> 00:38:35,532 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Code spaces. 809 00:38:35,542 --> 00:38:36,142 W. Curtis Preston: Spaces. 810 00:38:36,232 --> 00:38:36,652 Yeah. 811 00:38:36,742 --> 00:38:37,912 That's what happened to Code Spaces. 812 00:38:37,912 --> 00:38:39,982 They had all their backups in the same account in the same region. 813 00:38:40,162 --> 00:38:42,562 They got hacked and the hacker just deleted their company along 814 00:38:42,562 --> 00:38:43,612 and the backups along with it. 815 00:38:45,232 --> 00:38:51,357 So, um, um, Yeah, so we talked about that. 816 00:38:51,417 --> 00:38:52,047 Um, 817 00:38:52,272 --> 00:38:54,942 Prasanna Malaiyandi: the one thing I was also around the 818 00:38:54,942 --> 00:38:57,882 three is that's a minimum, right? 819 00:38:57,972 --> 00:38:58,872 Not saying that that's 820 00:38:58,887 --> 00:38:59,187 W. Curtis Preston: a bare 821 00:38:59,652 --> 00:39:00,852 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Yeah, that's a bare minimum. 822 00:39:00,852 --> 00:39:01,212 You should have. 823 00:39:02,217 --> 00:39:02,997 W. Curtis Preston: That, yeah. 824 00:39:02,997 --> 00:39:04,827 Again, that came from back in the day. 825 00:39:05,007 --> 00:39:11,037 Right Now there are some companies, um, you know, Veeam for example, 826 00:39:11,037 --> 00:39:18,297 that they have like 3,210, like, um, Do I disagree with that? 827 00:39:19,017 --> 00:39:20,187 Uh, no. 828 00:39:20,857 --> 00:39:25,197 But I think that I'm like, one is air gaps. 829 00:39:25,257 --> 00:39:29,697 Like if one is air gaped, if the one, if one of your copies is, that's what 830 00:39:29,697 --> 00:39:31,107 we meant, that's what we always meant. 831 00:39:31,587 --> 00:39:33,657 Making sure that that other copy. 832 00:39:34,482 --> 00:39:37,062 Is, you know, is air gap. 833 00:39:37,062 --> 00:39:38,472 They, they add like immutable. 834 00:39:38,532 --> 00:39:42,282 I, I I do think that, you know, your backup should be immutable. 835 00:39:42,402 --> 00:39:47,292 Um, I think that's a separate concept, but I, I don't disagree with them on that. 836 00:39:47,322 --> 00:39:52,762 I just, my main purpose of the 3 21 rule is to, to use it against 837 00:39:52,992 --> 00:39:55,302 things that are clearly not backups. 838 00:39:55,302 --> 00:40:01,182 And I'll give the most obvious case, and that is, um, a SAS provider, right? 839 00:40:01,212 --> 00:40:02,202 And again, I'll pick on my. 840 00:40:03,282 --> 00:40:03,762 You know, 841 00:40:03,862 --> 00:40:04,572 Prasanna Malaiyandi: I wonder who it's gonna 842 00:40:04,962 --> 00:40:07,812 W. Curtis Preston: to pick on Microsoft, right? 843 00:40:08,712 --> 00:40:12,072 and, and again, it's, I don't have anything against Microsoft per se. 844 00:40:13,102 --> 00:40:14,382 It, it does seem odd. 845 00:40:15,507 --> 00:40:19,347 So many sort of proponents of Microsoft 365 try to tell us that 846 00:40:19,347 --> 00:40:21,297 what Microsoft has is a backup. 847 00:40:21,567 --> 00:40:23,487 Guess what, not a separate copy. 848 00:40:23,967 --> 00:40:24,357 Right? 849 00:40:24,567 --> 00:40:29,697 It's the stuff that, the stuff that's inside 365 where they, you know, in the, 850 00:40:29,757 --> 00:40:35,367 in the manual where they say, like, to restore, restore means you pull it out of 851 00:40:35,367 --> 00:40:36,837 a backup stored in a separate location. 852 00:40:37,227 --> 00:40:39,207 That that is not what they're doing. 853 00:40:39,207 --> 00:40:40,767 They're undeleting a flag. 854 00:40:40,767 --> 00:40:41,397 They're set, they're. 855 00:40:42,162 --> 00:40:45,972 Unchecking a a, a deletion flag and a record in a database, right? 856 00:40:46,572 --> 00:40:53,022 Um, and they are not storing a copy of your data on a second server in an 857 00:40:53,022 --> 00:40:57,072 additional location that would protect it against the worst possible stuff. 858 00:40:57,417 --> 00:40:59,817 Prasanna Malaiyandi: well, I wanna correct you there, Curtis. 859 00:41:00,117 --> 00:41:04,137 They are storing a second copy somewhere else, but that's for their own internal 860 00:41:04,142 --> 00:41:06,017 purposes to deal with disaster recovery. 861 00:41:06,552 --> 00:41:10,092 W. Curtis Preston: There is a delayed replication archive. 862 00:41:10,182 --> 00:41:12,702 I, I, I probably used the wrong term there, but it's a, it's 863 00:41:12,702 --> 00:41:14,982 a, it's a delayed replicated. 864 00:41:15,462 --> 00:41:16,362 Replicated, delayed. 865 00:41:16,362 --> 00:41:20,322 I don't know which word to use that, that does exist, but I have 866 00:41:20,322 --> 00:41:25,152 specifically asked Microsoft as a customer of Microsoft and said, can 867 00:41:25,157 --> 00:41:30,132 we use that delayed replicated copy as a backup if the worst were to happen? 868 00:41:30,132 --> 00:41:31,572 And they said no. 869 00:41:32,502 --> 00:41:32,922 Right. 870 00:41:33,612 --> 00:41:35,172 Um, and. 871 00:41:36,162 --> 00:41:43,992 I would argue that they see it as a protection against if all hell broke 872 00:41:43,992 --> 00:41:51,222 loose at Microsoft that like if the entire, if like in the OVH case, right, 873 00:41:51,252 --> 00:41:57,792 they get a data center fire and it takes out all of Microsoft, they might might 874 00:41:58,362 --> 00:42:00,312 be able to bring all your data back. 875 00:42:00,342 --> 00:42:03,652 I say might because it isn't in the contract. 876 00:42:03,967 --> 00:42:04,387 Prasanna Malaiyandi: yep. 877 00:42:04,877 --> 00:42:05,707 There's no 878 00:42:05,977 --> 00:42:08,772 W. Curtis Preston: the only, the only thing they have in their contract is 879 00:42:08,772 --> 00:42:10,362 that the service will be available. 880 00:42:11,082 --> 00:42:13,992 It, it's not, it's not, your data will be available. 881 00:42:14,022 --> 00:42:14,412 Right. 882 00:42:14,832 --> 00:42:15,882 But the, but, but yeah. 883 00:42:15,882 --> 00:42:17,952 So they don't have it stored in a separate. 884 00:42:18,897 --> 00:42:20,337 In an offsite location. 885 00:42:20,337 --> 00:42:23,847 They do have a delayed replicated copy, but it isn't available to you. 886 00:42:23,847 --> 00:42:25,227 So as far as I'm concerned, it doesn't 887 00:42:25,257 --> 00:42:26,397 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Yep, exactly. 888 00:42:26,487 --> 00:42:27,627 W. Curtis Preston: it's dead to me. 889 00:42:28,377 --> 00:42:34,347 Just like, just like the company formerly known as San Diego Charters, um, or 890 00:42:34,352 --> 00:42:39,387 as I call them, the, um, for those of you that aren't locals, they moved up 891 00:42:39,387 --> 00:42:40,917 to Los Angeles and they're dead to me. 892 00:42:41,997 --> 00:42:44,247 Um, alright, well there you go. 893 00:42:44,277 --> 00:42:45,927 That is what is backup. 894 00:42:46,542 --> 00:42:48,102 I think we talked about it enough. 895 00:42:48,432 --> 00:42:49,932 Do you have any final thoughts on the 896 00:42:50,037 --> 00:42:50,427 Prasanna Malaiyandi: No. 897 00:42:50,517 --> 00:42:53,577 I think the only thing is stay tuned for our next podcast 898 00:42:53,577 --> 00:42:55,737 episode on what is Archive. 899 00:42:55,737 --> 00:42:58,747 I know Curtis has dropped a lot of hints about 900 00:42:58,842 --> 00:42:59,742 W. Curtis Preston: A lot of hints. 901 00:43:00,477 --> 00:43:01,197 Prasanna Malaiyandi: important to 902 00:43:01,367 --> 00:43:02,562 W. Curtis Preston: gonna be a three minute episode. 903 00:43:02,562 --> 00:43:05,172 I'm gonna go everything that last week wasn't. 904 00:43:05,367 --> 00:43:09,057 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Yeah, . Well, I think it's important because a lot 905 00:43:09,057 --> 00:43:12,597 of folks, even in the industry get confused between backup and archives. 906 00:43:12,597 --> 00:43:14,547 So listen to this episode. 907 00:43:14,552 --> 00:43:18,147 Stay tuned for the next one, and yeah, let's go from there. 908 00:43:18,882 --> 00:43:19,182 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah. 909 00:43:19,182 --> 00:43:23,922 It goes back to that the fact that backup and archive are 910 00:43:24,292 --> 00:43:26,742 such common terms outside of it. 911 00:43:27,732 --> 00:43:28,212 Right? 912 00:43:28,272 --> 00:43:30,072 Um, let's go to the archives. 913 00:43:30,552 --> 00:43:30,912 Right? 914 00:43:31,512 --> 00:43:31,962 Right. 915 00:43:31,992 --> 00:43:34,962 Uh, let's go to, you know, I need a, I need a backup, right? 916 00:43:34,962 --> 00:43:35,592 I need a backup. 917 00:43:35,592 --> 00:43:37,662 And what that means is like, I need another cop, 918 00:43:38,172 --> 00:43:38,532 right? 919 00:43:38,577 --> 00:43:40,497 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Even in TV shows and movies, right? 920 00:43:40,497 --> 00:43:40,827 It's like, 921 00:43:40,827 --> 00:43:41,727 oh, let's pull for a book. 922 00:43:41,997 --> 00:43:42,387 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah. 923 00:43:43,227 --> 00:43:43,467 Yeah. 924 00:43:43,467 --> 00:43:45,567 I'm currently watching the manifest. 925 00:43:45,987 --> 00:43:47,007 I'm currently bing. 926 00:43:47,472 --> 00:43:48,522 It's a great show, by the way. 927 00:43:48,522 --> 00:43:49,392 It's a really good show. 928 00:43:49,482 --> 00:43:52,452 And yeah, they're, they're like a call for backup. 929 00:43:52,962 --> 00:44:00,312 I don't think they're, nobody's pulling out any tapes, um, But, um, yeah, archive 930 00:44:00,312 --> 00:44:04,152 is actually a lot more complicated than backup because there are, there 931 00:44:04,497 --> 00:44:04,677 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Okay. 932 00:44:04,677 --> 00:44:04,917 Save it. 933 00:44:04,917 --> 00:44:05,067 Same. 934 00:44:05,067 --> 00:44:05,587 Wait, wait, wait. 935 00:44:05,587 --> 00:44:06,107 Save it. 936 00:44:06,162 --> 00:44:06,732 W. Curtis Preston: archives. 937 00:44:06,852 --> 00:44:08,952 I know now I'm just, it's a teaser. 938 00:44:08,982 --> 00:44:11,082 It's a teaser, you know. 939 00:44:11,442 --> 00:44:18,777 Um, and, uh, Spoiler alert, uh, to Cha's, not in Wakanda forever. 940 00:44:24,467 --> 00:44:25,177 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Oh, Curtis. 941 00:44:26,067 --> 00:44:26,847 W. Curtis Preston: that's a good movie. 942 00:44:26,907 --> 00:44:28,197 I watched it, it was a good movie. 943 00:44:28,407 --> 00:44:32,817 Um, I was little surprised that, you know, no. 944 00:44:32,907 --> 00:44:35,907 Anyway, all right, well that is what is back. 945 00:44:36,477 --> 00:44:40,137 Uh, remember, um, hope you enjoyed this episode. 946 00:44:40,547 --> 00:44:43,767 Remember to subscribe so that you can restore it all.