Welcome to the six Figure Business Mastery Podcast, where every week Kirsten and

Jeanie dive into the essential topics to fuel your business growth, from

copywriting to course creation mindset, to video marketing, they've got you covered.

Tune in for expert guest interviews on all things marketing and

business, and learn how to work on your business, not just in it.

So get ready to unlock your business potential and take it to the next level.

In this episode, we're gonna discuss how to make more sales without feeling salesy.

Specifically by understanding why people buy and why they say yes.

I'm excited to introduce you today to Connor Clark from Sales Hub.

He's gonna talk to us a little bit about doing that high ticket selling

that seems to be so challenging for us.

So welcome to the show, Connor's, lovely to have you.

Oh, lovely to be here.

Thank you for having me.

So, Connor, I've got this magic question.

First of all, what led you down the path to becoming a Okay, quick pause.

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I started there in very entry level sales position.

And was completely blessed to just continue to be given opportunities to

continue to step up within that business.

And ultimately, a couple of years ago, stepped into the role of head

sales coach for over 4,000 members of that community, um, and also head

of sales internally for the business.

So had a wealth of experience at managing coaching businesses.

Have taken over two and a half thousand calls, managed a team responsible

for over $20 million in coaching revenue and coached a lot of coaches.

And it just got to the point where.

In order to step into the next phase and experience the growth and continue

to grow, I need to start my own thing.

So that's how I got here.

Congratulations on starting your own thing.

It's always fun and exciting and scary as hell.

Is that way for now?

Yeah, definitely.

Feeling all the feelings.

I was part of that group.

And Connor, you're an awesome coach.

I appreciate it.

The advice you gave people, they would just walk away saying, wow, this is

really effective and really exciting.

No, I appreciate that.

And it's been exciting to do that with people on an even deeper level.

Thank you.

Love that.

And uh, so right now you're coaching one-on-one, or do you

have group coaching with that?

No, it's a group coaching program.

It culminates, that's not a word.

It includes everything.

An online coach consultant could need to make more sales of their coaching

program or their high ticket offer.

So the coaching, the community, the curriculum, ultimately the software.

I've got big plans there.

So just everything that this kind of industry and these types of

people need in order to actually unlock more sales in their business.

And I think the most important thing is allow them to actually impact more people.

I love that.

Biggest thing is most people we know, especially almost like.

Jeanie, they hate the word sales.

Yeah.

And they, they shy away from it.

They feel like they're terrible at it and they just get icky feelings about it.

You should start there.

Yeah.

That's totally normal for a coach, right?

Like you correct me if I'm wrong, Jeannie, you didn't get into this because

you wanted to take money from people.

Like no, you got into this space Because I've spoken to, like I mentioned,

2000 online coaches, maybe even more at this point through coaching.

But you are all like the drive and the goal is impact.

Very, there is a monetary aspect to it of wanting to make more impact income.

There's definitely across the board a freedom aspect of time freedom, location

freedom, financial freedom, et cetera.

But whenever you ask someone their goals, when you ask a coach their goals, the

first response typically is not their own goals, it's their goals for their

clients, which is very interesting.

You all want to impact people, like you want to help people.

You don't wanna sell them.

Sales has this negative connotation of not actually serving people, when

in fact, when you can go, when you can embrace the fact that the only

way that you get to serve people is by selling them, and you can figure out the

correct way to sell people that isn't super disgusting and icky and sleazy,

you can unlock the ability to impact.

People that never would've been able to be helped by.

Yeah, it's interesting, I think about like this sometimes if we're

so afraid of sales and we're so afraid to have the conversation and

convert those conversations into paid clients, then someone else is, yeah.

Certainly there lot of clients out there that have, or a lot of coaches out there

that are, or people in general, not just coaches in every industry that maybe

are not as knowledgeable as you are.

They're not as ethical or as honest as you are.

Absolutely.

So I used to talk a lot like this with my loan officers that like, again.

You have to get good at having those harder conversations because

if you don't, someone else will.

Mm-hmm.

And those people may not be the most honest, ethical people, they may not

be the most knowledgeable people.

And that's frustrating when you see someone else getting

business that you know.

Doesn't deliver the way you do.

They don't do, they don't do nearly as good a job.

They don't care about the clients the way you do.

But they started sales and I think that should make a lot of people

angry enough to want to do a good job at learning how to sell.

I think it should make them excited as well, because the

opportunity has never been bigger.

The competition has never been lower to stand out.

All you need to do is just be an ethical person, low bar.

Just be ethical and honest and yeah, it is.

It's an incredibly low bar.

And that the barrier to entry to get into coaching and to get into this

space is so low that the standards and skill sets for most people are so low.

Anyone can slap up a website and call themselves a coach.

It should be an exciting opportunity for anyone listening to this that

struggles with sales or wants to make more sales because the opportunity

has never been bigger because your competition has never been low.

Isn't that crazy?

I love that.

So one of the things you have on your little synopsis that we talked about

was when you lead with value, clarity, and honesty, you close rate jumps.

Mm-hmm.

Let's talk a little bit about how can people feel like.

They're leading with value, clarity, and honesty.

So I think, I think when it comes to sales, are we talking about

the sales equation at this point?

Okay, perfect.

I think when it comes to sales like it, it all boils down to value,

trust, accountability, and belief.

And having spoken to thousands of coaches and reviewed.

Literally thousands of sales calls across every single niche

you could humanly imagine.

It's always these four kind of commonalities that are exactly why

people do enroll or don't enroll, and it's these four kind of traits

that significantly increase the odds that people will purchase.

And it became so clear over years that I actually created

like an equation around this.

So like.

The odds that you get a sale.

So sales equals value times, trust times accountability to the power of belief.

Value is the difference between where people are and where they want to be.

The further you can extend that gap between where they are and

where they want to be is the value that you provide in your service.

If you have a small gap.

Not much value.

If you can help people in an astronomical significant way, going

from zero to $1 a month, not very valuable, zero to a million dollars

a month, significantly more valuable.

The more value you create, the more likely they are to want to purchase your program.

Trust people don't trust you.

They're not gonna purchase.

And I think ultimately, especially in the coaching industry, people

are often pitching things that are just super untrustworthy.

They don't have the resume to actually be selling what they

sell, so people don't trust them.

They are super confused with what they sell.

Confusion is not trustworthy.

So I think there's a significant lack of trust for many people.

I also think that people, I think this is where sales gets

a really negative connotation.

People don't hold people accountable in the right way.

Because I just dunno how to, like, when you get to the end of a sales

call, there's this fabulous moment when you tell them the price.

What happens if they say no?

99.9% of people try to like push them into a decision and force

them to make a decision, and that's not, we don't like that as humans.

We're really good at knowing when someone is forcing us to make

a decision that's in their best interest, not our best interests.

If you can hold people accountable in the right way,

people make their own decisions.

And you have much better clients, you have a much better business.

Everything scales a lot better.

And the other side to that coin is that people aren't holding

people accountable at all.

Can you explain that?

Like how in a sales call, would you hold someone accountable

without pushing them after a no.

Can you give a of that?

Yeah.

The first thing is you clarify, so you clarify your goal.

The goal is I'm just here to help you make a decision.

I'm not here to sell you.

It's cool if you don't.

If you say no.

It's all good.

I, my goal is just to serve you and help you make a decision and if people

can genuinely believe that you're just there to help them, you are

already nine 90% of the way there.

So that's step one A, one B. You want people to do, you really want to clarify

like, is there anything else going on for this person, like any other

objections you want to actually make sure and clarify that their desire is to do

this, so what are their intentions here?

Then you just wanna understand what's going on for them.

So you just ask questions to understand why there is this pause.

'cause people purchase across the board in every industry emotionally, but

they justify those decisions logically.

Objections pop up or questions or limiting beliefs or roadblocks pop up when people.

Haven't quite been able to like logically justify the decision.

So being able to help them overcome objections really

just comes from a belief.

And I think beliefs really is the amplifier here.

That's why it's to the power of, in the equation, it comes down to

transmitting the belief that you're just here to serve the person.

And when people feel like someone is here helping them in their best

interest, they're significantly more likely to want to purchase your program.

A lot of calls end in disaster because people are putting people

off the wrong way and it's why.

Uh, I don't know if you've been on a sales call, the person seemed

fabulous and then they never turned up to the follow up call, right?

Probably because you left them with a really icky feeling

at the end of the call.

It's it, why do you not like sales Jean?

Potentially because you get to the end and it feels icky.

It doesn't feel nice.

It feels like you're trying to force people to make a decision that

they may not necessarily want to.

If you flip that and be okay with them not joining and just serve them and help

them make a decision, even if it's not to join, hard to step across the line.

Yeah, I totally like that because for me, if.

If you told me there was somebody over there that I had to

impress, I would be a nightmare.

If you tell me there's somebody over there that wants to talk to

me, I'll be all about chatting with them and getting to know them and

ask them everything under this.

That's all sales leads, who they are.

Yeah, sales is just a conversation.

Yeah, people put this pressure on it that it has to be this thing

that ends in them giving you money.

It doesn't have to be like, I haven't got money from every

person that I've ever spoken to.

It's funny.

One of the examples that I like to use is when I had my mortgage company, we

would've clients that would come in and their credit was at where it needed to

be, or they needed to save more money.

So rather than just saying, oh, get your stuff together and come back, we created

a process to really support them and help them get their credit score up and help

them to hit their savings goals and just give them the support that they needed.

One thing that blew my mind about that was the fact that I would get

referrals from them, like their parents or their friends who would

come in and get a mortgage from me.

So they were taking that referral from someone I had not done a loan for.

Yeah.

So I never sold him anything or sold her anything other than I was just

helping and supporting them to get to their goal, which was to buy a house.

But even though I had not done a transaction with them, they were

telling their friends and family about us and that we were helping them,

and we would get business from that.

So I, that was my, that was kind of an aha moment that you don't necessarily

have to close someone or sell them something for them to be a raving fan.

For sure.

And, and part of what logic was like, these people don't

even have their act together.

They don't have their credit.

They've got bad credit or whatever that looks like, but yet these people

who have half a million dollar houses are refinancing with us, or they're

buying their second homes with us.

So even though you would think that they don't have credibility in the sense

that financially where they should be, but the fact that we were helping them

was the credibility, the fact that we were doing something, we were serving

them, that made us more credible.

Yeah, yeah, totally.

You're just depositing goodwill into the marketplace.

I like to think we lead with is if you think about truly serving

people, that's the main goal.

And again, I love how you say it at the end of the goal,

it's like what's best for you?

And I'm sure you've had lots of times when people, it's a no right now,

but they come back later and they buy from you or they refer you Yeah.

Years later.

Yeah.

You never know what someone's going through.

Yeah, totally.

And when you flip the goal from the goal is to like to make a sale and you flip

the goal to just, I'm here to serve.

Yeah.

You have a very different feeling towards sales calls and you also

have a very different reward feedback because you may not make a sale for

a few days, but if you've had a lot of wonderful conversations where

people left better than they were.

A caveat to that, don't coach them on the call.

Don't solve their problems, but as long as they feel served on the call,

like it just changes the goal of what you're going into it and how you

are rewarded from that experience.

I like that part about don't coach them, don't solve their problem.

That's gonna be a harder for a lot of us, isn't it?

Oh, it's the biggest.

Across the board.

In sales, yes.

But like specifically for coaches, that's my bread and butter, who I like to help.

The biggest challenge they have is just not solving people's problems on the call.

They blur the lines between this being a sales call and a coaching call.

And the problem is, I'll love to talk about this.

The problem is it's probably the biggest disservice you can

do to your potential clients.

Because if they get onto a call with you and an hour later you've

coached them for the entire time and they feel like their problems have

solved, their challenges are overcome, they're never gonna give you money.

And no one's lives.

Yeah.

No one's lives have been changed through an hour pleasant conversation.

I know you guys are lovely.

I'm enjoying this conversation, but like an hour later, my

life isn't gonna be changed.

Right.

That they have to be sold.

Like they have to join whatever your program is so they can

actually receive the training.

So what, how would you coach somebody into not doing that?

Because you're totally right.

It's so easy to just fall into, let me, let me tell you how this, what

you could do In that situation, I feel like, would it be more

like asking them more questions?

Yes.

To get them to figure out?

The second you find yourself talking too much, ask a question.

So the sales call's really broken up into three parts of the discovery

of the pitch and the close.

The discovery is the beginning of the call.

What are we doing?

We're discovering we have two ears and one mouth for a reason.

Like we need to learn about the person.

We need to learn that they're a good fit for what we do.

We need to learn about their situation, current and desire.

We need to learn that we can help this person.

We need to create more value.

The only way you do that is by asking questions.

This is where people coach because they're asking a few questions.

They hear a challenge they can solve, they solve it, and then

they ask another question.

They hear another challenge, they solve it.

And then you get to the end of the call and the person that they've

been talking to is, I'm fixed.

Why would I give you money?

Oh my God.

See?

But I would think people would think, if I can help you solve a problem,

then you might think better of me.

Mm-hmm.

And then you would want to work with me because you can see that I'm a giver.

Totally.

But if I solve all your problems and you leave at the end in the moment where

you are making a decision whether or not you want to get further help, and I feel

like I'm better, oh, I now have a plan.

I know what to go do on my own.

Why would I give you thousands of dollars to do this when I feel like you've just

given me everything I need to go do this?

So like I get the argument, the psychology behind it just doesn't work.

Well, and also, like you said, in an hour, yes, you can paint a big

picture for them or you can give them tips or solutions for small things.

But most of us, especially like you talk about high ticket, you're

selling something that's more expensive that has multiple steps.

Yeah.

And that's something you can't, you can't solve that in an hour.

No, not in the slightest.

You can give them a good feeling.

Right?

They can perceive that they're better.

They'll go away a few weeks later.

Life will get busy.

They'll have had a few fights with their kids.

They'll have changed nothing, and then they'll be back looking for a solution and

they may come back to you or they might just go away and try continue to struggle.

Like the moment might've been missed.

So what do you say to people who get to that point and say how much

their program costs or their whatever costs that they're trying to sell?

And then the argument is.

It is too expensive.

I know.

I would think as a salesperson you would say you should have

given them enough value or enough information that wouldn't be an issue.

Mm-hmm.

But what if it is?

Yeah, it comes up all the time.

Financial reasons.

One, that's not even a financial objection.

That's more of an uncertainty based objection around it being more money

than I expected, or it's a lot of money.

The thing that I would say is that it doesn't mean they don't have the money.

That's not even a true financial objection.

You've thrown me a curve ball genie, which I appreciate.

The first thing I'd say is that to overcome that really comes down to

the discovery first and foremost, because it's a lot of money.

Or it's more money than I expected, is really just a lack of value.

So what's the advice?

99 times out of a hundred go deeper in the discovery, create more value.

Really ask questions to uncover the emotions behind what are going on here.

The beliefs, the root belief, like really get to the crux of

what's going on for this person.

So create value.

If you do that 99 times out of a hundred, you probably won't get that objection.

If you do, it won't be that elaborate.

If you do, you just go through a process.

I'm like, my goal is just to help you.

Like aside from it being more than you expected, would you like to do this?

Yes.

Perfect.

Is there anything else coming up for you?

No.

Perfect.

What did you expect it to be?

It's a $5,000 program.

I expected it to be 3000.

Awesome.

Now all we're doing is overcoming a $2,000 objection instead of a $5,000 objection.

A lot easier.

If it was 3000, would you be getting started?

Yeah, definitely.

Okay, perfect.

We can just ask questions to uncover things and learn what the difference

is, and then we can create some sort of logical solution or logical reframe.

The most probably common and easy one is just a payment plan.

Okay.

We can't do the whole thing right now.

Let's spread it out over a couple of months and therefore

we've solved the problem.

Love that.

All right.

Outta curiosity, do you, at the end of a sales call, do you take their

credit card information right there?

Yes.

If they've made the, this is one I struggle with probably because of my

background with compliance and issues.

Security.

Yeah, totally.

Yeah.

Is the fact that we all have devices that are listening and now you're all

of a sudden taking someone's credit card information, so where it's being recorded.

Alexis, in the other room, your phone's right here?

Mm-hmm.

Do you ever have concerns about security and that?

I personally, what I do with my program is I will make them make a, not make them.

That's a horrible thing to say.

They make the decision to move forward on their own on the call.

My job now is to secure the investment because they have made the decision.

If we wait very good chance that something will happen in their life.

This will no longer be a priority.

They will delay, et cetera.

We've all sent out links to people and the person hasn't joined,

and it's a horrible feeling.

We learn that lesson once and then we move on.

Personally, what I've chosen to do with my business is I'm on the call with someone.

I send them the page to process the investment on their own.

They take care of it on their side.

I don't know any of the information, don't want to know, but they make the decision

and I just sit there in the background and let them know that I'm here, if anything

goes wrong, if they have any questions.

And then once it's processed, I'm gonna set them up and make sure they

know how to be successful here so the call doesn't end the moment that they.

Hey, the call ends like five, 10 minutes after that moment, because

after that moment, I need to set all of the expectations for them moving

forward on how to be an incredible client, how to get incredible results.

I need to set the expectations as what's gonna happen next because

I wanna limit refunds and frankly, I also wanna ask for referrals.

'cause that's a fabulous moment to ask for referrals.

Yeah.

They're happiest when they've just paid.

Isn't that funny?

Yeah.

The best time to ask for a referral is after a significant win or after

a significant moment of excitement.

Like when you've potentially been thinking about getting help for this challenge

that you've been facing and then it's been dominating your mind for maybe years.

That's a pretty exciting moment.

And they more than likely know other people that would love to have this

feeling that they're having right now.

So that's a significant missed opportunity.

That's what you saw us say at the moment.

You asked for referrals in the mortgage businesses when they've signed the

contract and the application's been turned in and they're on a high.

Yeah.

Not after all the processing challenges they go through.

Yeah.

No, but yeah, I would say be compliant though.

There's a lot of un compliance in this industry.

Make sure that you know what you need to do, how to be compliant, et cetera.

But when people make the decisions, let, let, let them make the decision.

You'll lose a lot of sales if you don't capture the investment

when they've made the decision.

I have lost a lot of sales.

Yeah, me too.

Me too.

We've done that.

Yes, for sure.

Yes.

So tell me this, I've heard different stories about the logic behind it, but

do you offer people a hundred percent guarantee or any kind of guarantee?

There's three types of guarantees.

There's a conditional guarantee, an unconditional guarantee,

and then no guarantee.

So an anti guarantee is how I've termed it for myself.

Conditional guarantee is that people get a guarantee as long

as certain conditions are met.

So they turn up to trainings, they do X, Y, Z, whatever that looks like for them.

Unconditional is that they just don't have to do anything and you're just

promised to give them a guarantee for no reason, not my favorite.

The answer guarantee is essentially that you guarantee

that there are no guarantees.

So my personal preferred one and what I would advise most coaching businesses

is to go with an anti guarantee.

Reason being, I think it's the most ethical and authentic

guarantee that there is.

I think it's super powerful when you can say that common sense dictates that there

is no guarantees in life whatsoever.

But I guarantee that if you turn up and do the work and ask questions and don't

quit when it gets hard, that you'll more than likely progress towards your goals.

Not even promising that you'll hit your goals, that you'll make progress.

Progress towards your goals.

As long as you do the things that let's be real, you have to do.

If you do those things in anything in life, odds are that you'll be successful.

So I love that guarantee.

That's the one that I prefer.

I understand a conditional guarantee.

I just know that it also adds complexity to a business.

Yeah.

I think oftentimes when it comes to that guarantee, people

are ridiculous with them.

You must turn up to 100% of calls, right?

Yeah.

But life, you get busy.

Right.

Exactly.

How do you enforce that?

How do you capture that information?

Are you like, taking attendance on every single call?

So, I think conditional guarantees work.

I don't, I'm not a huge fan of unconditional guarantees.

I think they, they pressure people to make decisions in an, in an extrinsic way.

So they're, they're pressuring people to make a decision because they're scared

of missing out of some guarantee, and it removes all of the responsibility

of the client to actually do work.

And it puts all of the risk on the business.

And I think specifically in a coaching environment, I don't think that's

the best way to begin because I think everyone needs to be bought

in to actually be successful.

If you were to join, say, sales Hub, and I was like, look,

you can have your money back.

No, no problem.

No issues whatsoever.

I don't think that's setting you guys up for success because I think

it's beginning the relationship giving you a very easy out.

Anything we wanna learn can build our confidence and build our bank

account is it takes hard work.

Totally.

If it were easy, it's like, it's not an easy button, right?

Push that button.

So I agree with that.

Getting that easy out is like, why bother taking the sales call at all?

Why bother investing?

I think it's a great way to make sales and I think people that are

inexperienced lean on it because it's a very easy way to make sales.

It's a very enticing offer.

I'll give you your money, like just try it and I'll give you

all your money back if it sucks.

And I think.

A lot of the unethical people in this space, or the inexperienced or people

that are selling things that they're not genuine experts at, lean on that.

And I think that's great for them.

I think the people that are actually experts and the people that want a

thriving program with clients that actually go on to be ridiculously

successful should lean more on a conditional guarantee or just have an anti

guarantee where they guarantee nothing.

Love that.

So what do you feel is the right time amount for an average sales call?

An hour.

I, I always leave an hour.

I think that's enough time to cover everything transparently.

If you have less calls, you can always schedule it for an hour, and if nothing's

afterwards, you can keep talking.

There's nothing wrong with it being longer.

If we're breaking up a sales call, 30 minutes roughly would wanna be discovery.

25 to 30 minutes of just learning about them, five to 10 minutes of pitching,

and that leaves about 20 to 25 minutes for objections on for the close.

Yeah, I think when you say objections, people like freeze, right?

'cause that's one of the biggest challenges for people's

overcoming those objections.

If you go into a sales, here's another belief.

Most calls have objections, right?

Life has objections.

Like I think one of the most interesting things that I've learned in this space,

watching coaches sell, is that not, they're all shocked when an objection pops

up, but like literally, probably 90% of people will have some sort of objection.

So why on earth would you be shocked when it comes up?

Right?

And I think when you're selling your own thing, and this has become more

prevalent for me and more noticeable now that I sell my own thing, you get

to the end and someone has an objection.

How dare they don't.

They know how amazing this is.

But I think if you can remove yourself emotionally from the fact that you are

selling your baby, the thing that you've spent like maybe years building an

expertise and years crafting and getting incredible clients' results, like if you

can remove yourself, UNE, emotionally, and just put yourself in their shoes,

it becomes a lot more reasonable that they would have some sort of question

or limiting belief or objection.

But if you can flip the belief to be like.

I expect this to happen.

You handle it very differently.

It's just part of the process.

It is just part of the process.

90% of people are gonna have something if you can get very good at just

helping them make a decision that's in their best interests for themselves.

Like objections become a lot of fun, like at this point.

Now I get it.

My first.

600 to 800 calls.

I didn't even know where to begin with an objection.

What I learned though, was that the better I got at the beginning of the

call and the discovery, the more value I created and the more trustworthy my pitch

became, the less objections that I have.

And now I'm at the point where I've just taken so many calls

and handled every single one that you could possibly imagine.

Like I've had every objection.

Very rarely does something surprise me at this point, but having done that one.

You know when the objection is coming up, when you've done

everything right throughout the call.

So it's not really a surprise when they say that they don't have the money and

you've typically already handled it.

Most of my calls now are objection list, just because I've handled

them all before I get to the end.

Okay.

When they do pop up, it's, oh, this is fun.

Finally, it's like a game.

And when you get into that moment where you're truly connected with someone that

you know you can genuinely serve and is right on the edge of making a life

changing decision, the connectiveness that you feel with someone is incredible.

It's like, it's such an amazing moment to share with someone when

you help them make a huge decision.

Then once they do, you get to see them years later and how their life has

changed or their business has changed, or their relationship has changed, or

just whatever your transformation is.

That is fantastic.

Mra, this has been so amazing.

You have given us my pleasure, so much value and so many good ideas

and thoughts and different ways to turn something around that that

maybe you were scared of or that you don't, that you don't want to happen.

We're so grateful that you were here today, Connor.

So tell us a little bit about, I know there are people listening who are

saying, I need to reach out to him.

I need to.

Find out more about what he does, what's the best way for them to do that?

Go to join sales hub.com and just fill out an application and schedule a call.

Worst case scenario, we have a lovely chat.

You get to see a sales call being modeled in person.

Worst case scenario, cancel the application 'cause I can't help.

That's perfect.

Nothing.

Good deal.

You're gonna stay healthy my friend.

Stay healthy.

Yeah.

That's right.

Stay healthy.

Connor Clark, this has been amazing and we will put all your details in

the show notes below so that people can go right there and fill out the

application and have a chat with you.

So thank you so much for joining us today.

This has been great.

My pleasure.

Thank you for having me on.

Thanks for listening to the six Figure Business Mastery Podcast.

If you enjoyed listening to this episode and you are ready to leverage video

marketing on all online platforms, or maybe even start your own video

podcast, then you need to check out the Done for You and Done with You program

at the marketing va advantage.com and take your business to the next level.