[00:00:00]
[00:00:48] emily-reagan--she-her-_1_04-23-2024_135205: I mean i'm in this messy State of business where it looks good on paper. It looks good on instagram But it's this growth stage of business where you're really Dialing it. Okay.
Proven proven the model I've gotten [00:01:00] through the startup. I have a successful course. I've had some six figure launches. Now it's dialing in systems, processes, teams, and really figuring out what's working. What's not, what do we concentrate our efforts in so we can increase profits. You know, , like I know
where I'm going with it Certain it will work out, but it's not quite so sexy as it looks like.
[00:01:19] Tracie: Welcome in everyone. Today. I am joined by Emily Reagan of unicorns unite fame, and we're not holding anything back in this episode. As we dive into the evolution of her business from client work to focusing on mentorship and coaching, and we covered the importance of high touch onboarding in strategies for sustainable business growth.
What does it mean to have a membership and have a course and to really see people grow in their careers, but who is Emily? You may be asking. She's the founder of the unicorn digital marketing assistant school and digital marketers work group. And I might add that she's the coiner of the name, digital marketing [00:02:00] assistant. But her mission is to help high achieving smarty pants, women experience, flexibility, creativity, and financial success as work from home marketing assistants and specialists. And you're about to hear all about her journey.
Let's drop in on our conversation.
[00:02:16] tracie_1_04-23-2024_125205: So welcome in Emily. I'm happy that you are here.
[00:02:18] emily-reagan--she-her-_1_04-23-2024_135205: I'm excited to be here and congratulations on the new podcast.
[00:02:21] tracie_1_04-23-2024_125205: Oh, thank you. Thank you. Yes. Yeah. And we are kind of, um, we're riding a little high right now because we just got done in your program where I was guest coaching and that's one of my favorite things to do. So, we're all just all, all chatty and all lively, uh, living it up, doing the things, but now it's your turn to be the one talking instead of me.
I
[00:02:40] emily-reagan--she-her-_1_04-23-2024_135205: Thanks for coming in my group. I realized, Oh, I can tap into some of my friends and I don't have to have all the pressure on me to teach all of the marketing in my group. And that has. Giving me a lot of freedom when I let go of that pressure. And I know you've had guests talk about it, but I just want to say thank you because it let me kind of just sit back the last hour and play [00:03:00] host.
[00:03:00] tracie_1_04-23-2024_125205: mean, I love it. And for me, it's like to have that chance to kind of geek out on sales messaging and kind of, I mean, for all, for all of our friends that are human design nerds, we're always like, one of my things is that set the record straight channel line thingy, whatever. so it's, it's, oh, it fits nicely in with me, right?
It's like, I have that chance to kind of help people feel that sense of, oh, that's why that happens. And oh, okay. Now I feel like I can do something, you know? So I, I love guest coaching, but, I know with you, Like with what you have, cause you have this, this big program that you do, but then you also have this separate, do you call it like a membership or do you call it like an add on?
Like, how do you distinguish these different pieces that, that you have for people?
[00:03:45] emily-reagan--she-her-_1_04-23-2024_135205: So it was kind of fun after working with a lot of different clients and seeing how they set up their digital products. I knew I wanted a course that went to a membership. And I knew I wanted a backend membership. And so I created my course that teaches marketing assistants, the [00:04:00] services and marketing skills that helps them start a business. And then I offer this continuing, retainer, with, to work with me and keep getting the jobs and keep advancing in their marketing. Cause I knew it just didn't ever end. And so I called it the VA club at the time, but I knew this because I had quite a few clients who were in Sue McLaren's world. And so I had gone to his membership.
I saw the possibilities of membership. I didn't see it for myself until someone else pointed it out. Like it's like how business works, right? I'm like doing it for everyone else, but unable to see the possibility for myself when it came to membership. But I realized I didn't quite have the volume with the course, and I really only had the capacity to launch. So many times a year, like right now it's once. So
I did open it up. So it is, it's no longer closed in the sense of other people can get into it who haven't taken the course, but now I vet people. So I kind of made it a little harder. It's application it's vetted so I can keep up the [00:05:00] quality, but at least I know that people who've gone through my course are at a certain level. I saw this happen in my client's business. People were coming into the membership, very confused, you know, not sure where to start. And so that's how I, I kind of evolved that offering and it works now. And now I'm finally able to grow it. It's finally growing.
[00:05:19] tracie_1_04-23-2024_125205: So that, that, that's interesting. Cause. You were seeing examples of people who had started out with aspirations of back end businesses, but for whatever reason, they were almost making them either separate offers or like, like sideline memberships. And, and it was like, Oh no, that's not going to work for me.
[00:05:37] emily-reagan--she-her-_1_04-23-2024_135205: Yeah. That's exactly it. Yeah. And I, I think that's the beautiful thing. When you take your time, maybe I'm, I'm quite a fast decision maker, but I, I got to kind of watch how other people set it up. And I also know like the pain it is to set up the tech and redo things. I've had so many clients redo their tech stack that I try to be smart about it.[00:06:00]
And that's another thing I did this go all in with Kajabi at the beginning. Although now I've piecemealed things out. I did add active campaign, but just to keep it easy, I went all in and it was a little bit scary because I wasn't really making money doing this yet, but I knew it would hold my butt to the fire if I had a big old kajabi bill and it would motivate me.
So I did the annual And my very first launch covered that cost. And it just felt like I was on top of the world. You know, I proved the model. It wasn't about profit. It was about covering my kajabi
bill.
[00:06:34] tracie_1_04-23-2024_125205: Yeah. And, and that, that is, that is such a true part, right? Cause one of the things that I talk about a lot is a cost buildups and how, how, like, it's not just about, Oh gee, what should I charge for things? And then getting these, you know, range of opinions and things, but like, what does your back end, what is your operations and what does your finance actually do?
Right. So without knowing all of that stuff, like you found this anchor and you, [00:07:00] and, you know, and you turn that into a goal. And it's like, if I could just do this one thing, you know, if I could just make this one annual thing, then it'll all be worth it. But then from there it's grown. Right. And it's, it's turned into so much more.
And I love that. And then, then the lessons that you've learned since then.
[00:07:15] emily-reagan--she-her-_1_04-23-2024_135205: Oh my gosh. Yeah. The membership, I didn't realize how much, I don't want to say work. That sounds so dumb. So cliche, but there's just a lot of backend things happening with a membership. And I really went into it naively and it has taken a good year or two for me to figure out. What makes sense for my business?
And I don't even know if I told you this Tracie, but I have decided to close the doors on the monthly, the low monthly rate, because I'm tired of the dunning process, I'm tired of people quitting. I'm tired of people, you know, buying for a month and then leaving. And I tried the three months, you know, minimum commitment at the beginning.
And I'm like, you know what? I just, I, I'm at this point. Baller level of my business where I want people all in and I'm not messing around. [00:08:00] So I'm switching. I just closed the doors We had about 30 new members and next time we open it'll be annual dues only and so kind of saying like screw Stu and his advice like this this turned into like the reoccurring monthly income but it's actually it is more of It's just some, it's turned into something else and something bigger.
And I need the price to reflect that. And I need the commitment level to reflect that if I'm going to support these people. So yeah, it's exciting and
scary. I'm so scared. I'm like, what if, what if it's too high? But I got to look at my cost of goods, you know, to deliver.
[00:08:35] tracie_1_04-23-2024_125205: you do, you do. Yes. And that, that's where, you know, like you can separate this concept of like, um, MRR, which means monthly reoccurring revenue for everybody listening, where you can separate this idea of, you know, what should I charge for this certain idea versus what is accessible to the people? Right. So they are not the same concept. The ultimate. Fee of your offer [00:09:00] is not the same thing as accessibility. So accessibility comes from the idea of, payment plans of scholarships of, what do we have in there as terms of like ROI and getting things back and what is our customer service and our commitments and all of these kinds of ways that we can support each other and be there versus saying, I don't ever want something that costs over.
400 because I'm afraid nobody can afford it.
[00:09:28] emily-reagan--she-her-_1_04-23-2024_135205: yeah,
yeah. And for so long, my price was 47 a month.
It's
[00:09:33] tracie_1_04-23-2024_125205: you go.
[00:09:34] emily-reagan--she-her-_1_04-23-2024_135205: like
29, but it was at
47 forever. And I was so dragging my feet on this and that part of me just wanted it to be a no brainer price. I knew if you were working as a new marketing assistant, right out of my program, charging 25 an hour, it was easy, doable. It completely realistic. And so that would be two hours of client work a month. And so I kind of had that price point in my head and I was like [00:10:00] hell bent and stuck on it, but when I looked at the numbers. the support we're bringing, the quality of support we're bringing, the teammates I'm paying to help me. I was like, I can't sustain this. It's not, and it's not even about like, it is about profit. But I looked at my friend, one of my friends has a membership at 97 and she's making more. And she's sitting in a less stressed position because she just has some of that, that profit padding. And I was like, I don't have that.
And I'm working doubly as hard to keep people. I'm like, this is not working for me.
[00:10:32] tracie_1_04-23-2024_125205: Yes. Yeah, exactly. Right. And, and you know, people don't want, well, I mean, you never need to feel guilty for profit, right? Cause profit is not a bad word. The things that we do with profit, I mean, they go back into business, they go back into community, right? They don't always line our own individual coffers.
Yeah. So profit, especially at our size of business is not the same thing as it is. If we're looking at, you know, the, the big five corporations [00:11:00] internationally, even though it has the same word and it's the same bottom line math, we don't do the same thing with it. Right? So most of the time, if you have one offer that makes a profit, there's a good 70, 80 percent that it, that, that quote unquote profit for that one offer is still going to get eaten back up in and invested in the rest of the business in order to help everything else.
[00:11:25] emily-reagan--she-her-_1_04-23-2024_135205: Yup.
[00:11:26] tracie_1_04-23-2024_125205: company profits. It is offer profit. And that's why you have to look at each of your offers individually as well as the totality of it. Right. And it's like, is this sustainable? Does this work as my entire offer suite and how will all of this be?
Yeah.
So again, like if you're looking at, your, your whole cost buildup and all the things that are running into it, plus what you need, not just for this individual offer, but for your business as a whole and to keep growing your impact and to keep growing all the things that you're needing [00:12:00] to do, including handling things for your family.
Absolutely. Absolutely. Right. You know, and, and paying, you know, yourself covering your own individual costs as well as any staff that you have, then it's not a case of, Oh, I need this bright, shiny, quote unquote, marketing buzzword, no brainer price. It becomes what is the actual, real price that one needs to be.
And then how can I look at the various ways to make it accessible for someone?
[00:12:26] emily-reagan--she-her-_1_04-23-2024_135205: I'm glad you said that because I had somebody said this and I don't think they meant ill by it, but they're like, Oh, I see what you're doing. And I ran the math on it. So yeah, I have about 190 members, not quite 200. So you do the math on 47. Well, not everyone's paying 47. There's some OGs grandfathered in at another price.
There's some people in it for free because they take my course and then they get three months to continue building their business. But you just run the math and you're like, Oh, that's not so bad. But it's actually in the red of my operating expenses. It does not cover my monthly operating [00:13:00] expenses. I mean, the goal is to double it and get there, but right now it is just like nipping away at some of those operating costs and where I cover my butt is with launching my course. Like that's gonna like kind of keep me in the black but you hit on the nail right there I need to be able to pay myself more. I mean i'm in this messy State of business where it looks good on paper. It looks good on instagram But it's this growth stage of business where you're really Dialing it. Okay.
Proven proven the model I've gotten through the startup. I have a successful course. I've had some six figure launches. Now it's dialing in systems, processes, teams, and really figuring out what's working. What's not, what do we concentrate our efforts in so we can increase profits. So I'm in a stage where profit is low.
This sucks, but I also have a vision I'm going to get out of it. You know, like I know
where I'm going with it Certain it will work out, but it's not quite so sexy as it looks like. Oh, I just, I mean, sometimes Tracie, I'm like, should I just go back [00:14:00] and be a service provider? I think it would be so much easier right now.
Cause I mean, for years, I kind of straddled a lot of client work to get this going. Like I'm
on year four of my business. So the first three years I was burning the candle at both ends, doing both. Then I kind of started leaning more into. Mentorship and coaching. I still do some client work because it lights me up and it keeps me relevant. But it's just been this like process. It didn't just like flip the switch and it all just turned on and all the profits switched to this side of the books. No, no, not at all.
[00:14:32] tracie_1_04-23-2024_125205: Yeah. Yeah. And, and that, that is that, the reality behind it. Right. You know, because we're like, oh, this is going to be so great and all these things are going to happen. And then it's like, oh, then the day to day and the day to day and the day to day. And we almost feel like we're doing something wrong.
And it's like, no, you're, you're not, that is actually the realities of growing a business, especially at our, at our size, because we don't have access to capital. So not only do we not have access to capital. So, so [00:15:00] under, under the definitions of business in the we're, we're in, we're in the U S you and me, not, not all of my guests are, but you and I are, we are considered small business.
Well, The amount that the range that that goes to is, is absolutely laughable. so I actually call us micro micro businesses, to, to put it into reality that we, can't just like go to the bank and actually get capital. There's not like angel investors are not these kinds of things for us. So for the most part, it runs off of partner money off of debt, right.
And off of us doing other things while trying to do this.
[00:15:35] emily-reagan--she-her-_1_04-23-2024_135205: Yes.
Like client work paid for the course is
basically the reality of
[00:15:39] tracie_1_04-23-2024_125205: Yes. Yeah. Or keeping some, you know, finger in the pie of a corporate or in some other kind of, you know, like for you, it was client, like keeping some other stream of either, um, income, if it's for, you know, like, like a corporate or for revenue, if it's a different business stream.
As well as right, while we're [00:16:00] trying to build these things and, you know, and as you said, like on, on Instagram or on whatever platform, those kinds of things often don't get talked about as often. So when we are. In this sitting, sitting in our grand offices, which basically means in our homes by ourselves, We're feeling like, Oh gosh, are we doing this right?
You know, are these things really going on? You know, how are these people buying the tech and, and, Oh my goodness, I need a new laptop. How am I even going to do that? You know, how am I going to buy yet another piece of software? How, how, how, how, how, how? Right. And, and. We get kind of like sold these ideas and these concepts that it can be so easy and that there's such a small startup cost to these businesses.
And there is, but only in relation to the alternative like brick and mortar, but bricks and mortar, where you can get loans from banks and bricks and mortar, where you can do other things that we don't have access to. Right. So everything that you did was, was very, business smart. You know, you were doing [00:17:00] the kind of stuff to make the numbers work to tick in until you got to your human capacity where you had to let some things go.
Right. Now, a lot of people online would be looking at it and being like, Oh my gosh, you're ready to scale. No, you're not. Right.
Scaling sounds so sexy, but that's actually what you do after you have a proven profitable model that you're now ready to multiply. Scaling is exponential and you don't do exponential while you're still running a deficit.
You know, you don't do that while you're still like figuring things out and while you're still working through it. Right. But that, that's not what gets the clicks and the likes and the comments and the, and the, you know, uh, what is it DM me this one word kind of thing that goes around right now. You know,
it's, it's like, no, it's like we're not, we're not ready for that.
And most of the time people aren't until after year five. Oh my gosh. Don't tell me I have to wait till five. I'm online. This is supposed to be easy. This is supposed to be fun. This is supposed to be laptops on the beach and climbing [00:18:00] mountains and doing all the stuff. Oh my gosh. What's happening.
[00:18:03] emily-reagan--she-her-_1_04-23-2024_135205: Oh, my God. Oh, yeah. And for some reason, memberships really kind of really light my fire there and make me a little angry. Maybe because I had a lot of, of Stu's people who would hire me early on to help with their memberships and make you have no audience. You have no track record, no reputation, no credibility, but you heard about this one guy who had this one orchid membership and made, you know, hundreds of thousands. I love that. You know what I'm talking about? And I mean, literally like they're eating it up with a spoon and then they launched this membership and then they get eight people and then those eight people dwindle and then memberships are hard
to continually produce content. And that's why I said I had to kind of reach into some friends and have them help me.
I had to hire a work group manager who could do some of the live calls without me because I felt so tied to zoom, but the membership model really pisses me off. I think it's complimentary.
I think it's I mean, I hear Taylor Swift in my head right now. Like I'm building something [00:19:00] and I'm okay with it. And it's a little bit at a loss right now, but I know where it's going and what it's capable of.
And I'm also in this messy middle area where I'm dialing in the process and I am making sure our capacity can handle it. Cause we couldn't before we were broken. Even though I know all about onboarding, it's not. It's not all right. And it's actually fun to dial it all in, but I can't just spend all of my time doing that.
I need help because I do have other channels. So to bring it back, I think a membership is a great complimentary revenue stream, but the people who go all in with them, like, good luck to you. Like, I just don't see it as this like quick overnight thing that's going to happen.
[00:19:40] tracie_1_04-23-2024_125205: like anything, you know, entrepreneurship is experimenting, right? So they're fun things to try, but it really has to be the market fit. It really has to be, this is the kind of thing that I'm working towards. So this is going to match, right? And is it a model that you can apply to anything?
Technically? Yes. Should you? [00:20:00] That's where the nuances come in. Absolutely.
and that's where, where we have to look at the individual and the capacity and the team and the, the longevity, you know, and what are those ultimate goals? Because what, what you have, I bet you, it's something that, um, Works really well and is really fun.
But I bet a reframe away from this word, especially now that you have like all these like emotional tensions tied to it, I bet it would probably feel very freeing and being like, yeah, that's what mine is, you know? And I mean, just already you call it a work group, right? So that already helps,
[00:20:34] emily-reagan--she-her-_1_04-23-2024_135205: it does. And I don't always call it that a membership, but I think I almost like my old name, the club. Like it's a little bit of a club and I don't mean like the tent, the country club, but it's like the club of people who are all doing the same thing. You want to go play tennis together, you know, and we want to learn out on marketing.
So you're right. It does feel good. But I'll tell you just the mind games that have gone through my head and making this change. It's like, you almost know too much. [00:21:00] And then you start to analyze it. And I'm a quick decision maker, but I also know once I changed the price, I just, I can't flip flop and I can't go back down.
And so every time I've increased the price, even if it was 10, I was really careful with that decision and how would it affect, affect my community. But there's so much that has changed in the last four years about what VAs are, how, how. You know, that whole buyer's journey we just talked about, like people are very aware and VAs have been around for a while where they're also growing and evolving and they need different things.
And so it's kind of okay to just go with it. And I think my people are more educated and more they're ready for this now, maybe not four years ago when it was also new.
[00:21:44] tracie_1_04-23-2024_125205: Yeah. It's called buyer sophistication, right? And market sophistication that, that is the awareness that comes from these kind of things existing and having gone on.
[00:21:53] emily-reagan--she-her-_1_04-23-2024_135205: Yeah.
[00:21:54] tracie_1_04-23-2024_125205: So it's like, okay, we're, we're caught up and we know there might be some bits that are new, there [00:22:00] might be some people that are still kind of going, wait, what?
But there's enough kind of crowdsource knowledge and information that, that everything is kind of that, that next notch up, right?
Uh, and, and so it's like, oh, okay. Okay. So what, what, what do we have here? What is now the need of the human? Now, let me figure out. What can I, what should I, what do I want to actually supply for them?
Right. And so is this something that I want to keep doing that I have the capacity for, or should I just kind of bless it, release it and move on?
[00:22:32] emily-reagan--she-her-_1_04-23-2024_135205: Yeah. And I thought about that. I really did. I really was like, do I need to kill this and kill my darling? And I was there. I've been there a few times looking at the numbers. So we'll see. I mean, who, who, who knows right now? Those are my favorite people to work with. And what I have found, I've almost gone backward, Tracie.
I went, I went from being a service provider, a micro agency owner, course creator, right? I'm almost circling back to coaching. And I was just telling someone the other [00:23:00] day, I almost wish I had started with coaching, but I wouldn't change anything about my journey, but that's what I'm finding people need the most right now.
Yes, they get in. They like the community. They like the trainings, but you cannot deny the fact that people need eyes. On their stuff on, you know, just like you come into my program and teach discovery calls. And you know, we just talked about the work with me pages. People need eyes and feedback and the community can do some of that. There are people who will take time out to respond and engage with each other. So now I'm starting to go back and add more of me back to it. I got to figure out the sustainable way. So how do I, you know, how can I do that where they get what they need and I'm not taxed out and. You know, feeling responsible for everything because that was kind of the point, the sexy part of a low membership was I don't really have to be involved.
And that's not what my people need right now. And so, I mean, I could play with different tiers and price points and whatever, but I also want to keep things very simple.
[00:23:58] tracie_1_04-23-2024_125205: Right, right. And, and, [00:24:00] you know, and again, like what's wrapped into accessibility goes beyond price. It goes into transparency. It goes into bringing people with you. It goes into honoring loyalty. Right. And it goes into the responsibility as the seller of being like, okay, this is where I am with you and what I'm helping you with.
And the kind of like dreams, aspirations, ROI, that it's your responsibility to implement, but I'm going to give you the information to do it. Right. So it's like, this is where you need to take responsibility and say, Hey, I need help. But these are all the places that we're going to be here for help. Like all of that gets wrapped up into that.
You know, so that way people very much know what they're signing up for and what is spending this money mean, you know, so they're not just hanging their hat on the, by the end of this, you'll be able to do blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and rainbows and kittens and sunshine and all these things are going to happen.
Maybe. You know, and that's also where, the realities [00:25:00] and testimonials come in. And we don't like, I always tell my clients, like, don't judge testimonials because there's different places. There's different paths on a journey. So how somebody feels the moment they buy is just as good of a testimonial as somebody year five, year three, month two, month one.
Right. And, and the more of that feedback can also help you with your process to see, wait, where do we drag? Where do we lag? You know, where do we have something that we need to, to, to dip into and hold onto as well as who is, who are the people that are most likely to get the results? What work are they doing?
What outlook do they have? what, are, are they going after and working towards and how do we match that with what we're doing? Right? Because that, that's that messaging piece of connecting what you are willing and able to supply with the people who are willing and able to do. And when you find that, that magic little kismet, that's when it all kind of comes [00:26:00] together.
Right? So as the seller, we have that, that responsibility and transparency to make sure all of that is there. For all the live events that we do and on our message, like our sales messaging and, you know, talked about in content where we're shouting out the people who've done the case studies. It's like, okay, but these were the things that they did.
This was how they implemented all the work that we provided them. Right.
So like, I mean, you could charge a thousand bucks or you could charge 1 like the, the price, matters in terms of your back end finance part, communication level and the, what they're signing up for and what to expect. All of that carries more weight as far as who will, who can, how do they like sign up for things.
You know, and that, that more bandwidth for support for, you know, scholarships, if you want to do them for the, creating like grants and stuff like that, and for applying for the ones that are out there, right. As a woman owned business, you [00:27:00] know, in saying, I mean, primarily the people who come into your world are as well.
So it's like, you know, what's out there, what can we apply for? What can we help to lift up the community and bring that out there?
[00:27:10] emily-reagan--she-her-_1_04-23-2024_135205: Yeah. Oh, I love that. It's so interesting right now. We're getting a lot, you know, we're just on boarded some new unicorns. I have quite a few people saying you've created a special community. I've never seen anything like this. And yet I also have people who will join who just want the jobs. And they don't engage, they don't get active.
They don't understand that the truer power, the thing you really need to grow your service business is the network, right? And like some people just will, will never get it. And then I don't know, it's just, it's just been so interesting. And from a marketing angle, for me, it's hard to sell community. Probably because I didn't know I really needed it back then, but I sure see the power now.
Right. And I know, I know what my natural ability to connect as a military child and a military, spouse, [00:28:00] I've always had that ability to go into new networks and connect. Like I just took that for granted. And so I don't know, it's just very interesting.
I'm not sure where I'm going here right now, but I have had people never get active, never get involved. And then at some point they're disappointed, you know, not, not by the numbers, but I'm like, well, I know why you're not getting results because nobody knows who you are. We're not referring you. And so many of the wins are from people referring each other, getting inside another business, a seven figure business and turning out and hiring a couple more unicorns and, you know, referring them.
So it's like, Oh my gosh. But I also have gotten to this level, Tracie, where I don't need to convince them,
[00:28:38] tracie_1_04-23-2024_125205: No, no, no. And it's never our job to convince anybody, right? Our job is to give people enough information to make a decision, right? And so instead the messaging becomes, this isn't a paid job board. This
is an illustration of the power of community. Like you were here to get information, to grow as who you are, to find places to, [00:29:00] to work with and people to work with, but also to be able to refer out and to refer in.
You know, it's to find synergies and to say, Oh, that's not what I want to do, but I know somebody who does, or, Oh, I love doing this, but I need help. I know somebody I can trust and I know the level that they have been trained and skilled up. So I can bring this person, even if I haven't met them beyond maybe, you know, a coffee date or, or, you know, talking to them randomly in a group training, but I know that, that we at least have this base level of connection.
Right? You know, because it's not a paid job board. You can have those. I mean, hell, you could definitely have one of those for 20 bucks a month, where they just basically get access to a, to a database. And
that, that is
way different, you.
know, that is way different,
than, than the kind of thing where you're bringing in guest coaches, where you're talking about leveling up your skills, where you are making personal introductions, where you're having the business who's looking for stuff, fill out [00:30:00] an application as well as the humans who are coming in there filling out applications.
Right?
[00:30:04] emily-reagan--she-her-_1_04-23-2024_135205: Yeah.
I am not trying to be up work. Like that is not my job. I also have jobs not to be hiring manager. I have seen hiring managers get paid 5, 000 to go be a headhunter and just come into my group, dip in there and pull somebody out. And I'm like, I know that could be its own thing. And that is not a business I'm interested in. And running and so that can be money I've left on the table, but at least I feel good about the pool of people I've collected and then I'm offering and I really care that they. Do their best and know, just know more than the average VA does. So they are exceptional. I don't know. I just have this like deep sense of pride when it comes to work.
And, it's fun. It's fun to connect the dots, grow and learn and nerd out and see marketing in the wild. I mean, that's why, that's why we're here talking on the podcast.
[00:30:53] tracie_1_04-23-2024_125205: Right. And it's not money that you've left on a table. It's a table that you never bothered to sit at.
[00:30:59] emily-reagan--she-her-_1_04-23-2024_135205: [00:31:00] Ooh, that's good. That was good.
[00:31:01] tracie_1_04-23-2024_125205: Like you intentionally walked right past it.
[00:31:05] emily-reagan--she-her-_1_04-23-2024_135205: Yeah, that's like the cool girls table. I'm like, no, thanks. I'm going to go over here
[00:31:09] tracie_1_04-23-2024_125205: Right. And there's nothing wrong with that. Yeah. Yeah. It's you and your wisdom going, that's not for me. Great. Have all the fun you want over there. I'm, I'm still going this way.
[00:31:18] emily-reagan--she-her-_1_04-23-2024_135205: Yeah. And I'm still so happy to connect, you know, like I get so much pride when they connect with somebody and find decent human to come work in their business.
[00:31:26] tracie_1_04-23-2024_125205: Yeah. Yeah. And, and, you know, that, that works that way, you know, so as you've been going through this whole evolution and where it started and at least releasing the majority of the client work, right? Cause you, you still keep a little bit, has it changed your concepts of online business or of, you know, what a lot of people think of as freedom or any of that kind of stuff?
I mean, you've been doing this kind of thing for a long time. Like you started doing like work at home and freelancing and that way before doing like this online stuff.
[00:31:59] emily-reagan--she-her-_1_04-23-2024_135205: [00:32:00] Yeah. I was really putzing around though for years, very ignorant, which I was off having babies moving around. It's cool. And now I have to say where I've grown the most is doing the scary thing, pulling out of a lot of the retainer work. Now I do projects. So there's a difference. There's a
freedom to say yes, no. And I kind of think in terms of trimesters and the summer is just a trimester, I don't need to be working. I do have four children. I want to have fun with the kids. I am a very involved mom. We're very sporty. Like, I just don't want to be working and spending my time on zoom. So, I pulled out of the client work and that was so scary to lose that base income that covered my expenses.
But like, I have been paying myself peanuts. Like, let's just be real. I have been paying myself peanuts this whole time as I'm growing and establishing because I didn't have the. The capital that you talked about, it's reinvesting back in myself, but I'm finally getting to this place where it's paying off. I mean, and I know I'm going to get there. but I have learned the most pulling out of that client work, [00:33:00] going all in with my course kind of stops self sabotaging in a way by going all in, but also by turning around and contracting with other Service providers to help me, I've actually grown the most because that's just something I had been in other people's businesses, but I have never been the client and it's a whole different viewpoint from here.
And it has, you know, challenged me to grow, to self examine. I know I'm not perfect. I can micromanage sometimes and want things perfect, but I'm learning a lot and it actually gives me. Really good contact content and insights that I can pass on to my, my own assistant. So did I even answer your question?
I kind of went off on it on a little tangent right there.
[00:33:47] tracie_1_04-23-2024_125205: No, I mean, we're, we're talking about how has your perspective and your current life, like how has that even, you know, changed, right. As the business has evolved and it is like, now you are becoming the [00:34:00] client.
[00:34:00] emily-reagan--she-her-_1_04-23-2024_135205: Yeah. And that,
that definition of business owner versus maybe entrepreneur, who's really in the weeds starting. I feel more like a business owner now. Which we are trying to nail some things down. I'm working with my friend and to implement clockwork and be a little bit more systematic. I feel like we're almost there with some things I've been able to kind of pull out of some of the business because I have made some good hires and I'm almost there, but I've really learned to, um, give people the autonomy. And I really want to empower people to do their job. Just sometimes things are still stuck in my brain. Not everything is an SOP yet and not everything needs to be an SOP. There are some things that we, you know, I really love giving strategy and saying, this is what I envisioned. I'll go do it, but sometimes people need a little more context to like what I want.
And, and the process of delegating is being refined right now, but I am, I'm experiencing more time freedom. I am able to do things this year that I haven't [00:35:00] really had capacity for. And before we hit record, we talked about my blog. My stupid blog. When I first started my business, I knew the power of SEO. I went all in with the blog.
I was nobody. And that thing has gained me so much traction. I think one of my top blogs is about niches for virtual assistants. I get six, 7, 000 hits a month, right? We can talk about my conversion later, but you know, I have people interested in researching. I have a lot of that early buyer, you know, content. And so I went all in with the blog and it just fell apart because I didn't have the right person managing. It wasn't something I could keep up. It is very time consuming, even with AI. You know, the, the formatting of things, like making sure like the calls to action are right, that
[00:35:45] tracie_1_04-23-2024_125205: And the quality.
[00:35:46] emily-reagan--she-her-_1_04-23-2024_135205: yeah, the quality, the click through activity is very
important on a blog. And it's not like a VA who doesn't know your business just can't come in and decide that. And so I finally made a good hire and we're making progress. And I've always had such resentment. I'm like, why are we not [00:36:00] moving forward? And I just haven't had. The right person, but I also needed to make it a priority.
So that's one thing I hired a new work group manager who really gets it, who can kind of combine the need for engagement, community marketing with, with being systematic, you know? So like that has really freed up time and I've been able to pull out of that. And what have I been able to do with that time? It's finally pitched myself and get on media and get on more podcasts and get some features and that has held me back so much coming from a PR background and not feeling like I was ready enough or had the numbers enough. But it was really a time thing because not everything can be a priority. And so with the right people on my team, I have been able to. Offload big chunks of marketing and I'm so ready to offload almost the entire marketing department on some days and focus on things that will just increase my visibility and get me more leads. So that was a long answer, but I [00:37:00] feel like I'm allowed to Not allowed. I almost get to choose what I work on every day because I'm not stuck in the nitty gritty and the weeds of this membership, which is like so much, like Susie needs access to this and this person wants to cancel and this person says this document's missing and you know, it's like all these like little things build up and just eat at your time.
And if you have the right people in place who can offload that, it's. It's amazing. It's like this whole, I'm like getting over the mountain to a whole nother side of business. I know new level, new devil. Right. But at least I'm like conquering this first one.
[00:37:34] tracie_1_04-23-2024_125205: Yeah. Do you think that that will increase the capacity for the course?
[00:37:39] emily-reagan--she-her-_1_04-23-2024_135205: Yeah. And I think I'll be able to launch twice now. Like I told you, I went back down to one. I have another new person in that course who has really helped me systematize, like, what does this look like? Cause I said, we're like very high touch. And so we've got it all ironed out. I have this beautiful Asana board.
All I have to do is duplicate and it's how I want it. I'm not like counting on [00:38:00] someone to read my mind and now I think we'll be able to do that. I actually am going to experiment with maybe a different kind of container for that and maybe more of an accelerator and I will have the capacity to do that.
I've just been so maxed out and with the right help. I'm going to be able to bust my revenue goals. It might not be this year for personal reasons and just things going on. I feel like this is a year where we're kind of nailing some things down, um, like clockwork style, but I feel like I'm really preparing myself for 2025, which I kind of keep saying every year, like next year.
But I actually, I actually mean it. I've got, I've gone through a lot of evolution, so I mean it.
[00:38:41] tracie_1_04-23-2024_125205: I mean, and it sounds like you have meant it because every year there's been another level up. There's been another discovery. There's been another change, right? Because we work in cycles, not linear. So it's not like we're trying to get to some mythical destination because it doesn't exist. Right. Because [00:39:00] like you said, it's new level, new devil.
Well, if it was a finality sort of destination, then that wouldn't. Happen.
So instead it's like, oh, okay, we're over this arc. Oh, okay, now here's another arc. Now here's another arc.
[00:39:13] emily-reagan--she-her-_1_04-23-2024_135205: Yes, and it's exciting when you start to get ideas and know that like I could actually do that. Maybe there is a book in me. I mean the thing I've been dragging my feet on has been this evergreen webinar. You know, just wanting to do some have a sales mechanism for my self study course, because there are people who are ready to go now and I've got nothing.
And this has been a goal of mine, but I just haven't, you know, I've been figuring out some of the messaging in the audience, but I haven't been able to tackle that. So imagine when I get that in place and like, just everything is starting to point to the right direction, but I had to go through this and it wasn't, this is why that whole course membership thing is such like, ah, such a.
Bait and swap here because it just doesn't happen overnight. You have to figure out the [00:40:00] order of things and not, I'm not being very clear right now, but I think given time, like you kind of figure out what your audience actually needs and then build it. Like I started more on the side of this is what I'm going to do and kind of force it to work.
And so I have had to kind of just massage it along the way, both the membership and the course.
[00:40:20] tracie_1_04-23-2024_125205: Yep. Yep. And that, and that's what a lot of people do. Because I mean, we get excited, which is, you know, no big deal. But then we also, whenever we're in these, these heightened stages of emotion, positive, negative, neutral, but these heightened state of emotions, then we're more prone to the messages that we see.
Right? And so then they'll, they'll hit us in these ways and be like, Oh, okay. Oh, well then that's it. Oh, okay. Well then I have to do it. And anytime you hear like words, like the way to do it or only those, that is just marketing BS. It's a way it's an option. yeah.
that that's just how it is. So it's, it's kind of like, um, You can still [00:41:00] do it.
And if you look at this, this I'll call it a DIY, a DIY, right. But, but your evergreen option for, the, the course. So you can still do your live launch once or twice, and that will probably come with, uh, I'm just guessing here, but I'm going to come to, I'm going to assume that's going to come with like the coaching capacities and the communities and all those kinds of add ons.
Yeah. That the human interaction and support. whereas this other one is going to be the, the, at your own pace, the on demand, the, the, take it whenever you need it. We're here for you. Here's, here's the core consumption. So the work group can still benefit both.
[00:41:34] emily-reagan--she-her-_1_04-23-2024_135205: Yes,
[00:41:35] tracie_1_04-23-2024_125205: Right. And, and you can also have it where people can add on the community whenever it's during a live launch as well.
So the people who bought the DIY can come in just for that part. If they now need to ask questions or do this or that, but they're not stuck with whatever the paces of the information. If you have the community container to handle that, otherwise, then the appropriate is for them to go straight into the workbook [00:42:00] because you know, that they have that base knowledge and, and now they're, they're in the right community container.
Yeah. Which also means that you can close it to anybody who doesn't have this base knowledge and the prerequisite is the base knowledge, whether it was during a live launch or during a DIY, you know, evergreen consumption.
[00:42:20] emily-reagan--she-her-_1_04-23-2024_135205: So
[00:42:21] tracie_1_04-23-2024_125205: and that, that's how they feed each other.
[00:42:23] emily-reagan--she-her-_1_04-23-2024_135205: Yeah, what you don't see is all the the iterations I've gone through to get here just for anyone listening Like I did have this like open ended Facebook group for a long time and I had to make it a big decision to shut that Down it was it was draining me to have people just kind of constantly stuck there.
And so there's been many different iterations
[00:42:41] tracie_1_04-23-2024_125205: that paid or free?
[00:42:42] emily-reagan--she-her-_1_04-23-2024_135205: It was It wasn't ongoing paid. It was like a, almost like an alumni group. I think we've had
some friends like alumni group and seen some shut down too, but I had to go through these iterations. And I like what you said about how I can find ways to add the community to support, because that's really what I'm doing. [00:43:00] There is always an option to come back and join the live group. I mean, there always is. I think I also kind of had to prove the self study model and I've had people buy successfully. Go through it and have success and book clients, then come into the work group and book a client within a week, you know, so I've seen that, but I've also Tracie, I've seen people buy it and then never do anything with it. And I think some of that too, is like detaching my, you know, personal meaning to that because it's hard. It's a doozy of a course. And some people, no offense are very flaky when it comes to side hustles and ideas and things are going to try and start. And so it's a little bit of the nature of my audience. And so that's one thing I've been kind of fleshing out and I have proved it successful and I needed that, like I needed that proof in order to go market it correctly and feel good about it. Because I don't last thing I want to do is be one of those, like start a side hustle and get paid to. [00:44:00] Whatever.
And, you know, be one of those VA coaches. So I, I was being very diligent here and I want it to be, I want it to be accurate, you know, and not inflated numbers and like false promises. And so I have proved it I've gotten there. And I also had to have the team in place. I'm saying it's almost like a gift from God, like going through the team part of this at the same time and ironing out that, because I don't think we could have handled Self study students by the masses last year.
They would have fallen through the cracks. They would have fallen through the cracks because we, I did not have the right people on board and the people who were aware to catch it and do something about it. And that is one of my biggest fears. I am so afraid of Tracie, of being so out of touch with my community, having someone DM me and me not know who they are. And it's one of my paid students. Cause that has happened to me. I have paid what felt like a fortune to be in a big email copywriters group, to have her like, look at me, like, who are you in person, in [00:45:00] person and in, you know, DMS. And I, that is like the worst feeling. And so me getting a hand of. Onboarding and our client board and like just treating people as humans and not numbers is one of my core values that I'm working out.
It's not in a fancy mission statement, but that is, that is what's been going on in the background is how can I make this high touch and feel good and not lose my people, but I also need to train them not to DM me billing questions.
[00:45:29] tracie_1_04-23-2024_125205: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Yeah. It's like there, there's, there's a place for this and there's a place for that.
Yes. Yeah. But otherwise, yeah. I mean, it's just showing, you know, how, how deep that you care, but to what you were saying about, there's sometimes that people just won't ever do anything with it.
there is only so far that your responsibility goes with that. And, and we can look back at our own behavior to kind of help ground us and remind us of that. Um, cause think about a time when you wanted to get something done and you [00:46:00] thought that this one product, this one offer, this one thing was the answer until you got into it and you realized it wasn't.
And not from the sense of, Oh shit, false promises, right? Cause that, that would be on them and negative selling behavior. But in the terms of, Oh, I didn't quite understand my question, my problem, my et cetera. Now I'm seeing that this isn't what I want to do. This isn't the, the answer that I was looking for.
right.
So now I'm going to try and go look something else. I am now have, more knowledge as a buyer, so I'm going to be a bit more careful, but it was no fault of the seller. In this case, this was just me not quite understanding what it was I was after and the solution that I needed.
Right? So there will always be a piece of that.
There will always be. I think this is, it's like, um, to put it into something kind of silly, thinking about it like, like a blouse that you really, really want. And you're like, Oh my gosh, when I have the shirt, I can show up to any brunch and not care. [00:47:00] I can, you know, I can go from like taking the kids somewhere to, to seeing, you know, that, that catty mom in the carpool lane and being like up yours lady, look at me today.
Right? Right? Right. And then you finally get it and you're like, Oh, I am magic. And then you see yourself in like that one warped window, you know, that you walk past and you're like, I look so dumb. I look like I took something out of my 15 year old's closet. What am I doing? What am I wearing? Right.
[00:47:26] emily-reagan--she-her-_1_04-23-2024_135205: Trying hard.
[00:47:27] tracie_1_04-23-2024_125205: yes, and it's like, okay, I just know better next time.
And we do that ourselves, but it feels harder than it does returning a shirt because it's software. It's a course, it's a membership, it's a program. It's something we're doing for our businesses, right? It's something we're doing for self improvement. It's something that we're doing to try to, you know, There, there's a bit of pride, there's a bit of proving, there's a bit of, yes, we can make this work attached to it.
So it has a [00:48:00] heavier weight than it does. It, it, it would almost be as if you wore that to like a, you know, first time meeting the in laws situation instead of, instead of carpool, you know, kind of heaviness to it where you're like, oh gosh, okay, yeah, this feels way serious or then it would have under a different situation,
right?
It's that you randomly picked up at target. Yeah.
[00:48:25] emily-reagan--she-her-_1_04-23-2024_135205: is like watch module one. And if you know, it's not the right fit. Like you will know, you will know, hands down. We don't even need to get into the tech and more of the marketing strategies. Cause I really break it down. And I almost wonder if I should pull a little bit more of that out in my pre launch.
I think that would help with like graduation rates. And I'm not saying I have a, don't have a lot of like. refund requests at all, but there are people who don't always move forward. And so, so I let those people off. No problem. But I think there's something funny in this online space to bring it backward.
This is like, they think it's going to be [00:49:00] so easy and it depends where you're starting from. Even my friends who come from corporate marketing don't really understand online business and how to serve these type of clients. But the cool thing is once you put in the work, you will be able to go into any business. And think, and then that's where you make money, right? And so that's really what I'm empowering you to do. And we're going to get all this like groundwork in place. So you don't just show up. Like, you're not just going to be the data entry VA over here. You're the thinker and you're the doer and you're the strategist.
So you're going to be so much more than a VA. and then I was watching my competitor. Don't tattle on me. Actually sent my teammate to watch her webinar. I was like, what, what, what are her points? Literally Tracie. Just give up three hours of Netflix and you can become a virtual assistant. And I'm like, that crap. And I know she must be having problems. We could see the comments, but it's that crap. No, it's not just like giving up three hours of Netflix and then you'll be successful. So I really try to [00:50:00] hone in on this and this has come with my messaging evolution. It isn't easy to be a freelancer. It isn't. I mean, but the payoff is great when you can take the summer off, when you can take Fridays off and play pickleball, when you can go to the orthodontist with your child or your teammate can cover your, your work group networking event for you.
Like it's, it's amazing what it's going to, what it does for me, right. To bring it back to that question, but I'm just laughing at these. Online promises. Like people show up on TikTok and make it sound like you can be a 75 an hour of EA, like, Oh my God, I'm going to throw up.
[00:50:36] tracie_1_04-23-2024_125205: Yeah. Yeah. And that, that, that is where we get to differentiate ourselves with integrity.
Right.
[00:50:43] emily-reagan--she-her-_1_04-23-2024_135205: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:50:45] tracie_1_04-23-2024_125205: I love that. So you were talking about, see, you mentioned Tik TOK, you mentioned podcast, you mentioned the course you meant like, we're all the things like where, where all do we get to find you and follow you and hear you and, and help these conversion rates.
[00:50:59] emily-reagan--she-her-_1_04-23-2024_135205: [00:51:00] Oh my gosh. Thank you. I have my own podcast, Unicorns Unite. You've been on it with a very special. Successful podcast about an episode about discovery calls. I teach marketing services. We talk to other experts, learn from freelancers, what they've learned. So that's unicorns unite on all the apps. And then you can find me on Instagram.
I'm having the most fun. Occasionally I play on Tik TOK. I'm not consistent. I did get to a thousand people. Followers, but I'm not, I'm so not consistent over there. And then, um, I have a free Facebook group too, that's still growing. And if you want to continue the conversation, that's a really good place to hang out and, and, keep talking about it.
So thank you for having me. This has
been so fun. And I felt like it's like slight coaching session
[00:51:43] tracie_1_04-23-2024_125205: I know it was completely accidental, but yeah.
[00:51:47] emily-reagan--she-her-_1_04-23-2024_135205: was like, not sure where it was going to go. We got a little bit deep on the membership and the messaging, but this was really fun. I enjoyed it.
[00:51:53] tracie_1_04-23-2024_125205: Oh, good. Good. Well, thank you. Yeah. And, and all of your links will be in the show notes, of course, and, and I'm happy to have you and you can [00:52:00] always come back again and we can hang out and, see see what else, you know, we ended up talking about. Right.
[00:52:05] emily-reagan--she-her-_1_04-23-2024_135205: Oh my God. I didn't even say if you want to work with someone from our work group, hire a unicorn. com is where I share your jobs. So if you want to tap into the work group, we have assistance, specialist managers, launch managers, podcast managers, graphic designers. We have a lot of smart, smart unicorns over there.
So I'd be happy to share your job that helps me out the most, honestly.
Thank you, Tracie.
[00:52:27] tracie_1_04-23-2024_125205: it. Of course. Of course. And until next time.
[00:53:00]