We all basically have to unlearn and relearn to connect with our

native energies in this regard. To some, some,

like we said, like, the conditioning is so

problematic on so many levels. Like everybody's gonna have to go

through some decontamination. Like it's just part of it. It's not

personal to anyone. It's not an attack on anybody. It's just like

there's gonna be a period of just undoing and unlearning and

unraveling. And that's whether you're in relationship. We're always

in relationship to ourselves, whether part not so. So we just

start with that. We start with trying to like just a lot of gentle

disentangling, as we've been saying, and differentiating and

some space to then have some consent and some

permission for these other parts of us to have some room to speak and start

to familiarize ourselves with what's really going on here. And not

the conditioned responses, but also just to notice, gain awareness

when the conditioned responses happen, because they are going to still happen.

Hello, my loves. Before we dive into this week's incredibly important

episode, I want to tell you all about the magical man that I have

on to talk about sexual empowerment with women. You might be

wondering why it's a man. Chris Turkeys is the

most soulful, thoughtful, loving, kind,

gentle man you've ever met and absolutely brilliant, so

wise. And he was one of my most significant healers along the

way and mentors and guides in the beginning of early

on in my business, actually I worked with, with Chris and he really helped me

awaken my sovereignty and drop into the sovereign woman that allowed me

to have the capacity to carry this work in the world, to

launch this podcast, to have my business, to support all the women that I

support, but also to awaken my sensuality, my power,

my sexuality. Because he taught me to really create that

safety inside of myself and really, really taught me how to

root into my sovereignty. And that is everything that you need in order to

become a sexually empowered woman. So, and his, his work in world is

now around polarity and couples and relationships and

sexuality and really reawakening our

desires. And so this is his genius, his is

his zone of genius. And he's also been so

profoundly significant on my journey. So I wanted to bring him in to have this

incredibly important conversation. So spread the word, share

it with all the women in your life who you know, need to hear this

message, enjoy it and please let me know how it landed. Send me a

message. Love to hear from you and. And enjoy.

Hello. Hello, beautiful. Welcome to the

New Truth podcast for this very spicy episode.

I mean, I think it'll be like, a gentle start, but I'm

so happy to be here with you. Hi, Chris.

Oh, hello. Hi, everybody. Welcome back.

He's back for the second time, but he actually hasn't been on the New Truth.

He's only back for the second time because my Internet cut out last week

when we tried to record, and we were, I don't know, maybe 10, 15

minutes in, but it was so good. I was. I was quite devastated,

but also, you know, trusting that we were meant to have another experience.

So here we are. How to feel sexually empowered as a woman.

And I love that I have a man on right now. First off, actually,

we'll start there. It's. I haven't had a lot of men on the podcast.

We. I'll say we. I think maybe a handful

of men on the podcast over the years. And, Chris,

you were. I was just saying to friends of mine today that

you were my first male healer that I worked with.

And how do we describe you? I'm like, Chris, my soul guy. I.

The soul dude. My soul guy. My soul healer.

You were so, so, so, so, so significant

in my journey of. At the beginning of this work. I mean, I remember

sitting in your office before the very first immersion and

before inviting women to come to Italy with me, and I'd never

done anything like that outside of, like, on my own.

And I was beside myself, terrified, and I had

so much stuff coming up, and you held me and you

saw me and you reflected

my gifts and my magic, and you have absolutely been so

integral to the foundation of everything I teach in my work.

So just want to start there. Thanks for being here.

Thank you. That's so sweet.

Yeah, I'm happy to share you with the world. And so why don't we

start with the. The journey of the soul? Because

sexually empowered, of course, as everything that we talk about on the New

Truth really comes from what's happening inside.

And so would love to hear if you can just share a little bit

about, you know, what. What you do,

how you do what you do, and just your perspectives

on the journey of the soul.

Yeah. Thank you. So maybe let's start

with some terms. Is always good for sort of defining our terms.

So I kind of. It's a map, you know, like any map.

It's good if it's useful to go somewhere.

It's not just to study maps all day and have

conceptual maps. And that's Great. And then not take any journeys. But

so the map is, you could say self,

soul and spirit keep the S's together.

And importantly, it's

imagining them on a horizontal spectrum,

on a horizontal line, not

vertically. Which, as we'll see, is really important in a moment.

Why that is because if they're vertically

stacked, however much people may say otherwise,

it's inevitably going to create the idea that one or another

is better and superior and higher,

literally, if it's vertically set up and therefore

figuratively more important or better than some other part.

And therefore the idea is you're supposed to move away from one

and to another, whichever is defined as on

top. And this idea is. Instead

use the word integral. This is an integrative idea

that if we put them on their side, we actually

get a view of the wholeness of our being,

which ends up being made up of our humanity,

personality structure, nervous system, our

soul, which I would define as our uniqueness,

and then spirit, which is the part of us that's universal.

And a lot of times I think people conflate

soul and spirit, or they just maybe think they're the same thing, or they

haven't really ever thought about it. Or the words get used kind of depending

on who's using them interchangeably. But I think it's actually

really, really helpful to differentiate and distinguish them.

So an image for that could be that

spirit is like the sun,

and there's one light

and there's one source.

So spiritual language is typically the

language of we're all children of God, or

everyone has Buddha nature or something. We're all

part of the universe. You know, whatever the language is is some

version of language of universality.

Which is important because at its best,

spiritual teaching makes us all humble. We're all

equal. There's nobody more or less

Buddha nature than anybody else.

And that's really important, and

that's its beauty. But it also has a flip. It has a. Not a

shadow side, but just a limitation, let's say,

in that because it's so universal

and we're all the same. There's a good side with that. But the flip side

of which is we can sometimes lose a sense of what's our

uniqueness. So if we have the image of the

sun and then we add the part about there's rays

coming from the sun, and we allow those rays

to be all the same light and all from the same

source, but they're unique and really singular

as rays, then we're adding in the

soul piece along with the spiritual. So we get

to retain both the sense of our really deep

uniqueness, which I think is profoundly important overall

and certainly in the realm of intimacy and sexuality,

as well as the fact that we're all one and

universal together. And then also we're

humans. And this human thing is.

Yeah, this human thing is not just the meat suit

or whatever to my really immaterial true self that's going

to flip out of here once I'm dead or whatever, but

that a human nervous system and human development

and human emotions and needs, and

particularly in this topic, in the realms of things

like safety, the need for really slowed down experience

and deep safety and trust that is equally

important as to being seen in our spiritual side as well

as being seen for our radical soulful

uniqueness. Yeah. Wow. I think that

that description is incredibly profound. The breakdown of those

three things, three aspects of ourselves, I guess

I'll call them. I've never

looked at it like that before. In those three separate ways. I think I

talk about soul and spirit quite interchangeably. I don't talk about them

as the same thing, but I love how you break that down,

is that the spirit is like the interconnectedness, the

synchronicities, the magic, the flow that life is leading

us. We are divine and we're all connected.

And you know that we can connect with every

being on earth and we all really are the same deep down. We

have these beautiful hearts, love this

interconnectedness. But the unique piece, I

mean, and the human piece is so important too. But I think as you're describing

them, I'm thinking like, gosh, some people only live in their human. And then

they feel fucked. They feel like people that only live in their human

feel fucked. They take drugs to numb their

pain. They just feel horrible because they're so

disconnected from the fact that they're supported by

life, that there's so much more for us to experience here.

That we are divine, that we are all connected. And they're also

disconnected from the unique essence. And I think

human, like so many humans I've worked with that are disconnected from

the other two. I feel like on the journey I take women on, they really

connect with both of those aspects, all three, but the human

self without the other two. There's this always trying to

find purpose, uniqueness, specialness, because

they're trapped in the believing that they don't have it. And I think that's one

of the gateways and gifts that I got from you so early

on. God, that would have been nine years ago because it was the Beginning

of my work. And I did my first immersion in.

Well, I started my work in 2016,

but my first immersion was 2017 and

you were there with me the summer before. So

nine years ago you told me my soul centers was such

a big part. I remember you specifically. And you could talk

about the soul Centers if you feel called to. I'm sure everyone's going to want

to hear. They're also going to want to know what theirs are. But

when you told me my soul centers, you explained, I think the first one was

peace, harmony and balance. Second one was love,

love and trust or something. And then the last two were

communication and self expression or no, communication and

creativity was one. And you

explained, okay, Kate, the first two are all about other people. So

your nature is going to be always geared towards. I'll

never forget this, like God, you told me this nine years ago and it comes

up in conversation regularly with my friends as I'm navigating growth in my business,

my work. But you said to me, your

soul is so other people focused naturally, you'll never stop

being that way. So put all your attention and energy into

self expression and creativity. You're back to. Because that will bring you

into balance within yourself is focusing on just creating and

expressing. And you said you need like a podcast or YouTube channel.

And I remember at the time being like, what? I didn't

know. I don't even think I'd ever heard the term podcast before.

YouTube channel. I had, but I was like, really? And you're like, yep, you're a

preacher, not a pastor. Don't go into the hospital with people. Don't be holding

people's hands like, and being on their deathbed. You're on the soapbox preaching

a message. And here we are on the New truth podcast five

years later, you know, well, okay, you told me that nine years ago. It took

me four years to start a podcast. It took me a bunch of other people

also and encouraging it. But I was thinking how

knowing that information and it's not like

at the time, because of course then the human self wants to get a hold

of these things and try and control them. But

it's like those were seeds that needed to be planted for

me to step in more and more and have more permission to really

live from my soul. And they're all just

so important. So I would love to hear you, I mean, definitely go deeper into

the soul centers if you feel called to and just talking about the importance, importance

of all of them and what you've seen.

Yeah. So the that model, there's, there's a

number of different sort of soul mappings. So once we first get a

clarification of, okay,

we've got this kind of self or humanity bucket

category, what are the kind of practices

and kind of modalities that tend to be out there that are at their best

supporting that side. So things like

nervous system work, things like

internal family systems or something like that to help people get a

healthy, you know, intuitive movement type stuff or

somatic work to get a good healthy connection

of body and mind going.

And then you think, okay, spiritual, well,

that's like meditation and prayer

and spiritual awakening or

enlightenment kind of teachings. Okay, so the

soul is usually the kind of like middle child,

the sort of forgotten sister or whatever sibling.

And then people especially in, if I'm

speaking sort of, you know, I'm speaking from the North American context, but the west

generally, you know, a lot of the spiritual stuff

came in from the 60s and there was a big spiritual revival.

And then there's been a lot of therapy and

somatic work and personal development type things more self oriented,

which are important. But the soul has often been this kind of

forgotten third character. And so when we say

that, then we say, okay, well, what are the kind of traditionally, what are the

kinds of practices and teachings that exist for coming

to discover, understand our soul and express and

embody? And one of which, one of the classic forms

is a soul reading. And then there's different

styles. So the centers as you were talking

about is kind of basically sort of a chakra version, more or less using

them as kind of where they tend to get more

energy or less and develop a strategy for an individual. There's

human design, there's gene keys, I work with those two. You can

astrology, I mean, there's a lot of different ways of

doing it. And some seem to gel for some people and

not as much for others, and then they gel with another kind. And that's fine,

just go with what works for you. And

those are really maps just

to get in the door, really, to get a journey going. We don't

have to be like fundamentalists about our soul maps. I mean,

ultimately the uniqueness and the radical

total singularity of a soul could never be encompassed by

any single map. But you know, like any

good journey, it's helpful to have a good map or maybe even a

couple maps. Especially if your human self doesn't believe that you have

gifts and uniqueness then. And then you get,

you know, you have these even if you still don't Believe it. At the time

you're having a reading of some sort, it's planting seeds for you to be

open to it. Later, when the time is that you're. The time comes that you're

ready to explore that gift and that life leads you there. Yeah,

yeah. Because otherwise it's quite vague. What do I. Okay, I find my

purpose. What is it? Under a rock? What is it? People are always saying? They're,

like, using all these metaphors, I notice, of discovering their

purpose or finding it or locating it. Like, what's it hiding in a tree?

Like, wherever. Where is it? It's not out there.

So it's not buried pirate treasure.

So instead

we're just trying to come home. Because at the

end of the day, especially with Soul Domain,

we are trying to come within. And then what

creates the safety to do that and

to know ourselves and

appreciate on all of these

levels is to start to become intimate

to ourselves, first of all. And then,

as you were saying earlier, if people are wanting intimacy with

another, but they're not even intimate to their own being

yet, then it's a real crapshoot, to put it

mildly. Like, it's a total. You know, you're just

blindfolded and throwing darts at a board. Sure,

you might hit the bullseye, but the likelihood is not.

Not super high, really. And

the truth is, otherwise, things just tend to play out karmically

based on, as you were saying, people's wounding. And whether it's their own

individual wounding or they play let's play the. You

know, two people play the game of, like, let's. Let's trigger each

other's stuff and then play what I

call let's play that game. And

then I call that game trauma hot potato. No, you take it. No, you

take it. No, I don't take it. And then it's just back. So

it's. I'm laughing. But obviously in real people's lives, it

can be pretty brutal. Yeah, it's pretty brutal. But I also like the

laughter because it just shows that you can get to a place because

we've both been there. I'm sure you have. I have. And

it's nice to know. No, I imagine for women who

are still in that place of playing the trauma hot potato,

it's nice to know that you can get to a place where that's not your

reality anymore. And it doesn't mean you don't have stuff come

up, but when you have all of those parts online. God, I love

the clarity of this. I'm going to use this. This is so clear. It's

amazing to have the clarity of

those three aspects of self. And as long as you are attending to each one

of them and you're connected and plugged into each one of them, you can

navigate whatever arises in relationship. Would you agree?

Yeah. You get to be first in terms of a relationship with

oneself. You get to be at peace with

yourself. And again, this is why I was saying

it's really important to imagine it and visualize and

experience it along a horizontal continuum.

Because as you were saying, then we're attending to all of them because

each of the three are a piece of the. Of an integrated

puzzle. There's not a better and a worse. There's just

the gifts and the strengths as well as the limitations of

each one. And we're not asking. We're not asking our

humanity to do the work of our soul. We're not asking our

spiritual side to do the work of our soul. We're not asking our soul to

do the spiritual work. Like, each of them has their

area of focus, each of them has their area of strength.

And then it becomes a building up of the

strengths, allowing each to be in its own of genius and do

what it's meant to do and be liberated and trust that the other ones will

handle the other stuff. Like, you know, if we go into the spiritual

side, then it's, you know, and then you get asked a question about, okay, like,

well, what should you do in life? And the spiritual side's like, just be,

bro, everything's good. What

are you. What are you worried about? Which is totally the experience from the

spiritual side. And isn't that beautiful and lovely

to be able to access that. That can be cultivated consciously.

And it's wonderful to have that sense of, like, in the big, big,

big picture, everything is, well, everything

is totally okay. But also we're

also in smaller pictures where things are maybe need some help or

support and aren't really necessarily working out the best way and

just both can be true at the same time. So we're not asking the part

that's like, you know, I always like people

tease or, you know, whether it comes to the big topics, birth

and sex and death and, you know, all the rest. And you go to the

spiritual side, it's like, I'm just here. I'm just

at peace and just resting. So I'm good, you know, which

is great. But that doesn't really help you for. But I also. But your, Your

uniqueness and the sense of purpose and

what do you do. With it money and surviving. And also what do

I do about my family? And what do I do about my. Yeah, so then

the other parts need to come in too. And then you get

more of this sense of. Over time, you get like a sort of concert

kind of feeling or a symphonic feeling, which is

these parts of us really appreciate the permission and

the consent and the green light to just be allowed to be who

they are and not have to be something else that they're not.

And this work for me grew out of my experience that I was

putting all my eggs in the basket of the spiritual.

Tell the story if you're open. Well, yeah.

Whilst I was this heavy duty, like in my 20s, late teens,

20s, I became a heavy duty spiritual seeker.

And the kind of cosmic joke of it, which at the time,

like, I didn't think was funny, it took me some years to get. Because this

is a good joke, but it's a bit of a rough one. I

wasn't laughing at first, but eventually. But

I was asking my spiritual part to fill in my

humanity. And I didn't know about this map. So I put

everything in one category and I had all the spiritual experiences, or at least a

good number of them. And then it turned out I still didn't know how to

be human and I still didn't really know about what it was to be me

while also being connected to everything. And.

And the spiritual side was like, buddy, you're asking the wrong

guy here. I don't have the answers for you on this. I want

to meditate on a mountain. And just be bliss

and just. Just radiate love and peace all day.

Why are you asking me about you? Stoned all the time. Just like

psychedelics, like we're all one. Can't you see

the interconnectedness of the planet? Yeah. Which is

true. And that is completely from the perspective

of that part of us. And then it turned out, and I was meditating one

day, classically I was still trying to do the. Trying to work with my strength

area and then ignore the parts that actually needed the sport. And

I was sitting. I'll never forget this. And

this voice. I heard this voice. I usually don't. I feel a lot

of things, but I usually don't get like, hearing things. But

it was very audible and it was very clear and it

was just like, hello, can I have your attention, please?

And I, honest to God, my eyes were closed. I

honestly thought I was so disconnected from this part of myself.

I honestly thought somebody had walked in the room and was Talking

to me. So I opened my eyes and looked around because I

had a jolt. Like, who just walked in? And

there's nobody there. Okay, wait. Was someone playing Slim

Shady, though? Can I have your attention, please?

Well, the real Slim Shady was, like, knocking.

I was, like, knocking. I thought somebody was. Someone was figuratively

knocking on the door. I thought someone was. Literally walked in.

And. And then I took a moment, and then.

So then I finally did the move of, like, okay, well, who are

you? Somewhat. With a lot of trepidation.

And then the response was, I'm your soul.

And could I. Could I have the

floor? Could I offer you some insight on this particular

situation you're going through? And, like, I'm saying, I was so.

At that time, I was so disconnected that I didn't

even write. I literally thought it was someone else or something

else. And it turned out it was the soul of

me. And so that is kind of where this work started or the

journey of. Who was this character? What was this

character that I was so disconnected from?

And that led to a long journey. And along that journey,

also then I had put so much

emphasis. The joke was that if I was, like, driving

around in my car back then, the sign on the back would have said,

enlightenment or bust. And then the joke

was, it shouldn't have been or it should have been. And,

like, I got the spiritual thing. And then everything in my

life kind of busted apart and fell apart as a

consequence of that, because then I

had to learn things that at the time, seemed elementary. But I

found, as it turns out, culturally, they're not. They're foundational,

but they're not simplistic. Like, my emotions actually are trying

to tell me something. And they're valid. They're not just these weird

feelings in my body. And I either like them or don't like them. And I

like what. These emotions are signals. They have

intelligence. They have communication. Oh, you mean

my nervous system is an actual thing that I have to listen

to, and it sends me signals, and I can learn to

interpret those signals, and I can do it consciously or not consciously.

And if I don't listen to those signals, then the

signals tend to get louder and less pleasant.

Who knew? That's the. You know, I thought this was some,

you know, esoteric secret in the universe. Turns out

it's not, but it. It.

And that's. So that led to a whole number of years of

having to learn about, okay, I might have all these spiritual experiences. But the thing

was, is I couldn't handle it. My humanity

and My soul as kind of the energy

vessel or vehicle couldn't. My

circuits would get fried. They get overloaded. So

I had to build up emotionally,

nervous system wise, energy wise enough

container to be able to say, okay,

here's this really long spectrum from the

most egoic, shadowy, this

good old human personality level to

these subtle stories that we all

come tracking in life, to the most like,

transcendental, transpersonal, universal

aspects. And just to draw a really, really big

circle around the whole thing and say,

I'm all of these. This is me.

Yeah. Wow, that's amazing. So then. So the.

The. The voice of Eminem. Yeah. I have your

attention, please? Well, the real Slim Shady. So that

led to your soul unlocking, which led to your

exploration of the human. Is that kind of how it went? Like, you went on

a journey of starting to get, like, what? Can you tell us a little bit

about the tangible things that you did? Yeah, and

also, like, the work basically became

like, do not do as I did. Don't. Don't do what

I do. It's like, go in the opposite order. I went in the

wrong direction. I recommend the

other way, but that makes sense. Like nervous

system, body stuff, and then soul and then spirit. Yeah,

yeah. I mean, of course it can all be. But as a general

thing, yes, like, to me, it's really helpful.

It was basically, I had to learn about spiritual bypassing. And then to my

chagrin and, you know, some humble pie, it was like I was a

textbook case, you know, it was just like reading the book and

it's like, ouch. Yeah, ouch. Check. Did that one.

Check. So it was

a humbling. It was good humility. It was a little bit of difficult

medicine to take at the time, but it was good medicine.

So, yeah, I generally say it's really important to start with things like

the nervous system type, work

and emotional kinds of things. Learning the language.

Learning the language of our emotions. What's the purpose of anger,

for example? Oh, it's to have clear

boundaries and to tell us what our values are.

Yeah. What's the purpose? What's the message of sadness

or grief when we've experienced loss

and we need to mourn, and then we can still have joy even though

we've lost, as we all will.

Those to me, are really foundational

pieces because, you know, culturally, depending on

kind of gender stuff, various,

you know, at least in the culture I'm raised in, girls and women

are taught to be very emotive. At least certain emotions

are not a lot supposed to be angry. For example, Then you get called

really bad names if you're a woman.

But generally speaking, supposed to be

theoretically emotionally fluent or at least be

emotionally fluent to other people's emotions.

But it turns out to actually have a conscious relationship to one's own

emotions is not necessarily culturally

developed. So actually to turn within and not

be caretaking and not be pleasing and not be

rescuing or overly empathic like you were talking about and to be able

to learn, oh maybe there's grief inside. Oh maybe I'm actually really,

there's a lot of resentment there. Oh, there's a lot of

maybe I. Don'T want to do this thing. And that's why

towards doing it, you know, whatever the thing might be. For example.

Yeah, yeah.

So rather than these emotions being considered positive or

negative, they

become, do we have a conscious or unconscious relationship to

them and do they have enough containment?

Do they have a healthy container so that they can

go if they've been say, suppressed. People are you know,

worried that it's going to be like a volcanic, you know, say if

it's anger, oh my God, if I acknowledge I'm sitting in this

powder keg or this volcano of rage, it's just gonna like they're gonna blow

their top. And

so then they maybe push it back down some more, which is only just going

to increase the likelihood that one day they might blow their top

or it might implode, which would show up maybe as like a

depression period or a lot of self hate

or self critical kind of judgment that can be harsh.

And so we do a lot of work to just create enough of a container

so that the energy underlying the emotion can move

safely. More like in your volcano

example, instead of just blowing the top off the volcano,

those like nice Hawaiian volcanoes where it's kind of like

constantly a little bit of lava is just like always coming out and

everything's super verdant and the soil is super nitrogen

rich and there's greenery everywhere because it's just like

just a healthy regulated amount

creates this kind of third option between

suppression or unconscious expression. And

that same valence. By the way, whether it's

about anger also applies to say like desire,

libido, sexual energy to have enough

safety to not suppress or not just

have it unconsciously come out and play in

terms of again, whether it's caretaking or

trying to please a partner and then internally feel

depleted or a lot of rage or feels like a sort of

desert, intimacy wise, it's the same

process. Whether it's grief, whether it's

anger, Whether it's fear or whether it's desire.

You know, I'm seeing. This is so beautiful. I'm

seeing this like learning how to create

the healthy container of your emotions.

So that because women have been

so programmed to believe that their safety is in a man and in a

relationship. And I can't even. Like I had a dollar for all the women

I worked with over the years and met over the years who, you know, are

married and have sex or a divorce, but had sex with their

husband just because that's what you do. Because you're supposed to keep it going.

And they're literally like, there's nothing safe about. Like your safety isn't out

there. And I'm just feeling the. The power and

the beauty and the empowerment of

everything you're saying and having this incredibly

healthy relationship to all of your feelings so that

you can create that safe container internally. And

then, I mean, and take us here. But I imagine you

would experience a very different. Well, I certainly have experienced

it myself, but I imagine then women can experience a very

different sexual relationship with

men and even who we choose because we have that

healthy relationship with those feelings. Yeah,

thank you for saying that.

The point around the containing and the containment is really important.

Containment is like healthy riverbanks.

You know, it's not a dam or a swamp

that has no movement and everything gets stagnant. And then there's, you know,

mosquitoes everywhere or whatever and it gets stinky.

But it's also not a chaotic flooding type experience.

And so a lot of people, again, whether it's about their

sexual energies, whether it's their sensual,

you know, erotic type dynamics, just sensuality of

life again, whether it's these kind of emotional experiences, whether it's

nervous system stuff, you tend to get this

yo yo ping pong game where it's either

suppressed or then it unconsciously expresses. So

the person has been suppressing certain desires, then they leak out

in some way and maybe they had a couple glasses of wine or something and

then they feel, you know, hangover and shame,

hangover the next day or whatever the case may be. Or

they push their anger away and then all of a sudden it comes out either

passive aggressive or it comes out hostile. And then they feel terrible

about it and then they push it back down. It's oh my God, see, anger

is bad. And whatever the case may be.

And instead there's this option, this third way here.

And

to be able to develop the container within oneself

so that we can be with our humanity,

we can be with our Soul we can be with our spirit.

And then even they start to, you know, dance with each

other. They start to weave. At first,

they're usually all mushed together. And at

first it's actually really helpful to differentiate them and create some

healthy space. So one of the practices

we do in the work is actually, like, have people, like, create, like, put like,

three pillows on the ground in a line. And like,

this is the self, this is the soul, this is the spirit one. And then

they can just, like, walk into them, and it becomes like kind of a.

Like, almost like a constellation. Like, they actually get to walk

into the space of, like, how's myself doing? Oh, this isn't on my mind.

Or, oh, this emotion's coming up. Or, you know, whatever. But then you walk into

the soul space and then it

changes because they actually are at different frequencies. They're

in different worlds were made up of a combination

of them. And then you, like, walk into the spirit circle and

it's a totally different experience altogether again. And like, oh,

wow, this is different. And so we can do that

sort of in a general sense, but we can also do it, like, with a

specific topic. In this case, maybe

what's the self's relationship in history around its sexuality? What's

the soul's experience? What's the spiritual

experience? And then again, we're like. We're all of

them. It's good just having the self experience. But they're

not connected to their soul or their spirit again, because I think that's just

like. Without the soul and the spirit, the self is just dysregulated in a

trauma state. It's often living in a survival.

A survival. Survival programming. I can't

see any other way. If you don't. If you are not connected in any way

to your spiritual self or your soul, I cannot see any

other option than being in your patterns and in survival in the

self. And I think of so many women

and men, but of course, we're mostly talking to women here.

Are having sexual experiences from the self without the other

parts. And how deep down are craving the

spiritual experiences, are craving the soulful experiences.

And are having these experiences that just keep

reinforcing trauma or their wounding or their beliefs

about themselves or about men or about. Yeah.

Holy. This is so important. Yeah. And

that's where the. That's where it gets really

tender. Yeah. Because

there can be a lot of hurt there. Yeah.

And the

soul and the spiritual parts of us have different

sets of desires. And again, it's not the

one set are inherently the true or real ones, and

the other ones are false or superficial or fake.

Again, in this approach, the idea is like, listen to all of them.

Everybody gets to put their input in. And

then sovereignty, which is the. The fourth s. The kind of

the big circle that circles the other three circles,

then has to kind of figure out, okay, I got these human

desires, I got these soulful desires, I got these spiritual desires. There's a lot

of desires, and some of them we're going to be able to meet, some maybe

not, and some partly.

But all of them will appreciate being heard,

being fundamentally allowed. Just

like any part of us, it just really wants to be loved,

understood, allowed to speak, not

shut down, not silenced, not told it's stupid, not

ignored, not made to be the final answer

and have to have. Oh, oh. If I just touch in this one part of

me, it'll have all the answers, and I won't have to be in charge of

my life anymore. I say, no, that's not going to work either. But,

I mean, I often say, for me, it's like the experience of.

I love the Muppets growing up and the band, the Muppets

band, where they had the big, crazy psychedelic bus that they would tour

bus in. And this is like, there's a lot of colorful

characters on the bus. Was Jim Henson that did the

Muppets? Was he a psychedelic user?

I don't know. It might have been. I could see. Yeah.

But I mean, the joke for me is always like, I already

start at 10, so I don't take it. My life has

been like, trying to, like, turn the volume down so I can have containment,

so I can be here. Because I pick up too much. I was like, People

always ask me, like, have you done this or that thing? I was like, I

wouldn't come back if I did that. I don't think I'd make it back.

So. But just the, like. I love the, like, tour bus

idea with, like, all the character, all the Muppets on the bus. Like, I'm

not necessarily. I'm not giving. Giving animal the keys to the car, like,

under the bus. Like, that's. He's not going to drive. But you can

have some colorful characters who can be on your tour

bus. It can be lots of fun that way. And

the sovereign part to me is the one that's like, okay, well,

somebody's got to drive this thing. But the other people can play their

music and tour along, and it makes it for a more colorful experience,

to be sure, in terms of

the intimacy piece to

know oneself and to have the container of one's own being

so that we can actually suss out what are

our genuine desires and what are the ones that have been implanted,

the supposed tos and the shoulds, or

alternatively, the ones that we actually really feel but we were told are bad

and wrong. And. And then they've gone into the shadow.

And then maybe they've taken on sort of shadowy characteristics and we

confuse them for what they really are. Like, well, that one's.

Oh, that's not okay. And again,

connecting to these parts of ourselves doesn't mean giving them the keys to the

car. It doesn't mean containment, doesn't mean automatically,

oh, I connected this dire, so I have to go out and act on it.

Like, no, but that's not necessarily wise.

Depending on the nature of the thing. But also, it doesn't need to be made

wrong or bad. It can just be like, oh, that's interesting. Look at

that feeling in my being. Well, that's. I wouldn't have thought

that might be interesting to me or potentially fascinating. What

a fascinating experience.

And still have discernment. But from a place where we

over time are really learning to trust ourselves and to

trust our own knowing. And then in terms

of a potential for a relationship with another,

if we have developed that kind of

right container in relationship to ourselves,

so we have intimacy with our humanity in a

healthy way and our soulfulness in our spiritual nature,

then we know. Not because it says so in some

book, not because we're following some template

from the outside, but we know in our

bones what it is to treat ourselves right.

And then we know from another, do they have the goods or

not? Do they see us

in our spiritual nature? Do they see our soul? Do they see our humanity?

Do they slow down? Do they actually care about us

more than just their own

unconscious desires playing out? Does it actually become a

space where we get to be free and love each other?

Because you can feel it so much deeper when you care for yourself in that

way. I almost would argue,

can you even experience those things or know that

you're experiencing those things? If you don't care for yourself in

the way everything you just described, it

won't stick. There might be a my experience. There might be a

glimpse or two, but then it can easily be latched on as like, oh, I

need this person again. It can become like a. And that can become sort of

a codependent trajectory is like, this person

is the one that makes me happy. This person is the one who gets me

and of course, we all want to be understood. We all want someone to love

us and get us and look at us with devotion. Of course we all

want that. It's such a beautiful thing. And

we need to know first that

we are devoted to ourselves. And

then we can share that and slowly learn that

there's a lot of layers of intimacy when we

create this map. Among its many. You know, there's a

lot of positives with it, but one of them is there's so many zones

of intimacy and people's senses.

Okay, it's like, whatever in the movies, like two kisses and now up

against the wall and the clothes are being ripped off or whatever. It's like, that

is so there. You've just skipped 35 zones of

intimacy. You just have just barreled right through

each one of which we could slow down

and learn to, like, be together. And again, in this kind

of. This is a very. Kind of tantric idea, but like the

alchemical, whatever you want to call it. Sit. Can you be with the

valence? Does it go too quickly to, like,

oh, getting, getting, getting. Okay,

time to go to the next thing. And then that's already a form

of dissociation. They've gotten too ramped up and they're too quickly,

whatever it is, to. I can't handle

that. That's too much. And just like, learn to grow

our tolerance and our threshold

to be close with each other. Because,

honestly, we all want it, but we're also scared of it.

It's okay to feel both at the same time. Yeah.

And to remember that when you can just breathe through the fear and just

experience it, you keep deepening and creating more

capacity. And I'm just thinking, like, God, as you're talking, I'm thinking,

how many women humans. But I'm going to speak

to women think they know what they

want. And everyone's saying the same

fucking thing. Right? That's like, the unscripted woman is like, seriously,

burn the script and, like, let life show you and let yourself

notice the sparks and the weird desires

you're talking about and the moments and the feelings and the people that are meant

to cry your path. And all the divinity, the divine orchestrations of what

we're here to grow into in our soul lighting up and all.

All of these elements. Because I just think of how many women

are just like, I just want to find my husband. I'm like, what, you're 25?

Like, how do you even know you want that? If you haven't met someone, you

have a compatible relationship. I just want to be with one person

forever. Why? Like how? Like, honestly, like,

why do you want to make a decision for your 67 year old self when

you're 23? Like, how can that. And no,

it's my desire. And they're so certain, you know,

and you know, it's not our faults, but even what you're describing. And then of

course, being a mom, like, how many women are like, I just want to be

a mom. And it's like. And do you really like? Because some do.

Some. I have a client who when we met, she was dating like a serial

dater. And actually I had her on the podcast a couple years ago and

we uncovered her truth and it was she wanted a child. No

matter what, she wanted to be a mom. So she became

a mom by choice on her own. And she said it was the best decision

of her life because she got clear on her real desire and her real

truth. And so as I think about this, because even sexual

desires, like you're talking about how much

of what we think we want just comes from movies.

That's how we learned what life is, is literally from what we witness our

families have and from the movies and TV shows we watched and are still

watching and the love songs we're listening to. And

so that's the program self. So what would you say

for all of the women who are ready to

get to know their truth, their true desires, they're all these parts

of themselves. How, how do they start

distinguishing the difference? Yeah,

it's a big topic.

I'm glad you named the songs. I was thinking my.

I. I'm a dad to two daughters and

one of whom is

tween pretty teeny. And so I play a game with her in

the car because she likes to listen to all the pop music. And I play

a game called Is this. Yeah, she's been all.

She's got all the. She's got all the things. Yeah.

I play a game with her called Is this song codependent?

So we listen to the lyrics. Oh my God, I need to play that with

my clients. I just tell them to sing it to themselves instead of think of

a guy. But that's amazing. And the

answer is, the answer is almost always yes. It is yes,

pretty much without exception. So,

yeah, it's a huge, it's a huge cultural thing

of whether it's, you know, romantic mythology

or codependency or

someone is there is the other half or is going to complete them or whatever.

You just. It's everywhere in all kinds of ways.

And so this process, for example, with the three circles, just

as a beginning way, is like you can actually step out of

the programmed conditioning circle,

and you may not even known you were in that circle until you

step out of it. And then can witnesses from a little bit

of some space, from some observation, and go, oh,

yeah, you know that scene in. I always love that scene in

Monty Python, the Life of Brian, where they all think he's the messiah. And then

he tries to give them the talk about they can be themselves and they

can be their own individuals and they don't need a guru. And he's like, you

can think for yourselves. And then they all say, back together. Yes, we can.

We are all individuals, as they all say. It's like, perfect.

It's like that. Yeah, yeah, it's exactly right where people are. So

it's a cultural narrative that has now been embedded into

their eye. And they think, this is what I want, this is

who I am. And it can be. And this is where

support is really important. Not just, you

know, we all have our individual work to do, but it can be really important

to have support because that's a jarring experience.

It can be a bit jarring to step out of,

oh, my God, what if. Whatever

percentage, 50, 60, 70, 80,

90, 95, 99, depending on who knows, on the persons.

Like, what if that was actual cultural programming?

And then there can be a real moment of

disequilibrium, some temporary upset. And this is where it's

important to have a support system. At that point, it's like. Like, I don't know

what I want. And it can be scary

to go there. I think, with so much in training,

especially I see it with women. It can happen with men, too. But

asking them what they want, they just kind of blip out often,

particularly in the sexual realm just in general. But even

here especially, it's just like, whoa. So there's a whole

bunch of previous steps of just like,

getting used to the soul of your being, getting

connected to the spiritual nature, and

then over time, starting to experience what do these

parts of a person want and desire and long for?

Because it might be. It might turn out, it looks like you're saying in the

example of that woman, it might look like it's exactly the same from the outside

looking in of what the cultural story is,

but it's a totally different experience because she's coming at it from an entirely

different place totally. Or it might be. Or it might be

wildly different than what the cultural narrative is. And Then or somewhere

in between. I as you're talking about the pain of it, I just had

a flashback memory of when I broke up. I'm like

trying to think if this was maybe before I met you. When I

broke up with Charlie, my five year boyfriend and it was at 30 and everyone

else had got married that I was friends with, with their partners. We talked about

how we were getting married. I would talk about our Mexico wedding and our kids

names and all that stuff. Even though inside it felt like wrong, but

made no sense to me because I was like a fantasy love addict. He was

a great guy. Like it was, it made no sense. But

something stronger took over. I met, I met an activator,

a man who I was like, it's that guy. But he was just representing

my future self. Like he was conscious, he was a teacher, he was

powerful and heart based and just this. And so

I had this heart crush on this man. And that

activated the stirring and the questioning. And then finally I left and I rem

not for the man, but that he was definitely an activator for me

to let go of the relationship that the container that

was no longer fitting for who I was becoming now it

makes so much sense now in retrospect, but I remember my first. I

was living on my own for the first time in my life at 30, have

my own apartment. I remember waking up in the middle of the night every night

in agony that my mind and

in my language I call my saboteur was screaming at

me, saying, you are doing your life wrong. And I, I actually don't know

if I've told this story. Like I forgot till this moment. You're doing your life

wrong. What are you doing? You have to get married, you have to have kids.

Because I was 30 and not married. Here I am in Africa where

literally they're like, you're 44 and you don't have children. You're not. What?

Like you've never been married. Like, what do you mean? Like,

makes no sense here. Even though I've met a lot of divorced

Kenyan women that are empowered and all of that. But, but to

them they're like, we. Everyone has kids. Everyone. Like it's not even

an option to not. And, and so it, But I, I look

back to those moments and like that's when I started really

working with healers and really working with mentors and really

learning about my soul and having astrology readings and

having human design readings and learning how to meditate and everything you're talking about.

That was the next Three years before I met Jeff, who became my seven year

partner. Who I think I was with when I met you,

when I met Jeff is when I started my business. Those three years were

my really homecoming

party. That's when I really came home, was after I left

that script behind because my gut was screaming. So

I mean, God, everything you're saying is so valuable. I just can

feel how much so many

women will relate to this. And of course, to become

sexually empowered, you have to be empowered in

yourself, in your sovereignty and your self love and your relationship

with yourself. Like in your soul, in your

belief in, you know, that it's not all up to us and we don't have

to control our reality. And.

That. Yeah, thank you for

saying that. And I appreciate you sharing some tender stuff in your own

experience. I could feel that when you were sharing it. That's a

tough. There are some moments of,

yeah, it's important

medicine, but it doesn't always taste good going down

to notice the degree to which we're

can be identified. You know what I was thinking of when you were sharing there

is like, that's a survival voice. You have to get married, you have to have

kids, you gotta be safe. Like that's like what kept the species

alive for. That's how we got here.

And then I think now I don't question my life and my

choices for a second because I've never felt happier and more

connected and more in harmony with myself, with my life,

with my soul, with my sovereignty, with my feelings. Like I

wouldn't trade that for anything. And it doesn't mean I'm not open to, I believe

my next level deep partnership, whatever that looks like, is probably

coming soon because I'm really expanded right now. I'm just imagined.

And maybe that's not true, but. But regardless it is.

So I'm. So I'm saying I'm totally open to that. It's not about the

relationship, it's not about marriage, it's not about kids, it's not about any of those

things being wrong or not the thing. But it's like when

we don't have these connections to all of these

aspects of ourselves, what part of us is choosing that thing?

Yeah, exactly. And

often it'll be some kind of voice of survival

programming. Yeah, whatever it is that

depending on someone's upbringing and depending on the

culture and situation, they've developed some kind of

survival programming. And survival programming

also runs like in our families and our ancestry. It's in our

epigenetics. Like at this Our Instagram,

it's all over the place. And

it takes an immense amount of courage. It takes an immense amount of

courage for someone to be able to

start to create the safety in the container, to be able to step

out even for a little bit, even just

for a few minutes, to start to dip their toes

out or step out of the

survival programming. And then,

you know, on the other side of the survival programming kind of is two big

things. One is

all the stuff that wasn't felt, that was too big to feel,

hence the survival programming came in and said, okay, we're just.

We're going to hive all that off over here. That's just going to get parked

over there, because

that's too fast, too much, too intense,

whatever. And

those feelings will start to come back. They've never gone away, but maybe

they've been pushed down. They're going to start to resurface.

And also, if those can be finished and completed so that the

past is actually really past and not

officially in the past in linear time, but still is, like, echoing

and reverberating, and still we're still reacting to

it, and it's basically determining our destiny going

forward. If that can be

finished, if those feelings can be finished, the rage can be

felt safely and completed. The grief can be

felt and grieved and be done.

The fear can be felt and felt through and completed.

Then the. On the other side of that is where we

start to experience the deep generative desires and longings and

impulses of our being. And they're different than what we may

have thought they were. There's always little whispers. I mean, the

soul is always still trying to get our attention through our

dreams or through interacting with other people, like you were saying, or

stuff we see or books we read. And all of a sudden something hits us,

and it's a big wave of something like, where did that come from? Those can

be ways that the soul is, like, trying to. And it doesn't have

maybe a clear green light or channel.

It tries to kind of get in through the side door or the back door.

But if we create, like, the front door is the better option here.

Rather than have your soul, as I always say to people, like,

it'll, like, do a nice little gentle knocking.

And then if it's not listened to, it might get a little stronger. And at

some point, for some people, sadly, it just, like, kicks the door down,

which is an unpleasant way to enter an

initiation on a soul level. It happens. It happens through

terrible health stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Health stuff. Or

loss of identity or. Yeah, a death of someone

close or a whole life that they imagined. Or a really

terrible divorce situation. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

exactly. That's a tough way of having the door kicked.

That's a door kick down initiation, which I, I don't

recommend. It happens for some people and then it can still be

worked with if it does happen. I, believe me, I've worked with a lot that

way. Way. But generally the recommendation is create safe space

so that when you start to hear the knocking, you can begin the process

of actually listening and you can slow it down and

titrate it. You know, you talked about three years. That's

a nice window, you know, to give enough

space of real concentrated committed time

of homecoming. And also not like, oh my God, I have to have this figured

out by like two weeks from now. I'm in the middle of a life crisis.

Like, oi, that's not so helpful. And it's, it's not like I decided

it was going to be three years, right? I was just like, I, I,

and I remember when I left my relationship, I was like, I hate

myself. Every time I'm in relationship, I'm jealous as fuck. I compare

myself to everyone and I'm worried my partner's going to be with someone else. And

I'm like, I'm in hell. And so I got to figure

this out. Like when I'm single, I just need to be in relationship when I'm

in relationship. So. And I'd already, you know, was five years into my journey. I

was a coach. Like, had already started coaching, was in the business realm, but

I, and I'd done lots of healing. But I was like, I gotta

figure this one out. Like, I, I, I made that commitment. Like my

relationship with myself is at the root of every I had been

in. Like, this is the one, this is the one, this is the one, you

know, doing that dance for so long. So I did make the commitment

to myself. I certainly didn't know how long I was gonna be on that

journey. And it's not like I said or. Where it was gonna take, where it

was gonna take you or where gonna take me. No clue. And it's not like

I stopped, like I never stopped feeding those aspects of myself. But now I'm in

deep, reverent relationship with them. Like I, I'm even looking at you feeling

like, oh my God, I'm a different person than I was when we worked together.

I remember how much fear I was in all the time and anxiety

and story and and just sitting in this seat

now just looking at you and like, holy crap. I just feel

like. More like I'm meeting you now. I feel more.

Rather than like this little person me,

I feel f. You know, it's amazing

growth. When we're devoted, I always use the analogy of a musical

instrument. It's like you don't just pick up the

cello and one day you're a master performing in the

auditorium or in, you know, in symphony halls all

over the world. You have to devote yourself not only to that

instrument every single day and practicing and working with teachers and coaches

and mentors, but also probably the best musicians in the world

also meditate and they also do certain forms

of exercise. They also travel and they also have, you know, they

probably have many practices that. That feed

that thing and becoming a master at that thing. But you don't. A

master doesn't ever stop practicing. They're not like, oh, I'm a master now,

so I'm just not going to pick up my cello. Like, they. No, they practice

still every day, as far as I know. I don't know anyone. Any

personal masters at music, but I'm assuming they still practice.

Um, so. So how to feel sexually

empowered as a woman. Let's. Let's take this home,

because you and I could probably do this forever, and it feels so good. And

probably we'll do a part two, part three, but.

But if you could break it down, because I just think of how many women

have so much sexual trauma. You know, patriarchy, men,

men not being properly educated on how to. How to

navigate their feelings and their bodies and their needs. And

women for so many centuries just submitting to

men's needs because we didn't know any better, nor did men.

And I think all women carry that trauma and probably

have experienced some version of it of our own in this lifetime. Certainly all

the women I've worked with, including myself. It's just something we've all done,

said yes when it's a no, or had experiences where

we didn't even have a chance. Chance to say no. And there's just

so much stuff sexually. So what would you say

is the trajectory for a woman who got on this

episode because she really wants to be sexually empowered

and feel that and whatever that means to her and

whether she's married or single, and yet right

now she just feels so far away from it. What would you. Obviously, this whole

episode is the answer to that. But. But how would you break that down

really clearly? Yeah.

To come back to first and foremost,

first start to differentiate these three circles

because there are three really

different kind of worlds, if you like, or spaces or zones

or dimensions or whatever metaphor you like that there.

And

that's for

emergence to happen.

Is the formula is first differentiation and

then reintegration of the differentiated parts.

So in this case, the emergence being sexual empowerment

differentiation. First here is differentiating

the self experience, the soul experience and the spiritual

experience relative to this topic. And

so a process that can be

at the beginning really helpful. Something that you named I think

very powerfully in what you were just sharing there

is, after having a bit of time of getting used to these three dimensions,

is clarifying a fundamental intention, a

sovereign intention, which you named really powerfully,

like you're committed to yourself, numero uno,

no if, ands or buts about that. It's not up for a

vote, you know, and not to press people that they have to have

that. You know, you came to your own process to determine that for yourself.

But when we spend enough time in these

three parts of ourself and start to move in the. It eventually does

crystallize some kind of fundamental

knowing some fundamental intention

about a life altogether. And specifically

in this domain, when it comes to intimacy and

sensuality and eros and the erotic in life and the

sexual as part of that, like crystallize a

fundamental intent. Don't force it, but just. It will

automatically come out of

the consequence of just spending enough time getting familiar with these dimensions of

ourself and they start first being differentiated

and then start to experience. Whoa, I thought this desire, but it turns out it

was my parents thing, or it was society said this or it was this, you

know, ancestral survival system.

Turns out maybe I actually am interested something else altogether.

And in the spiritual place, the soulful place relative to desire

is always on some level to be seen in

our fundamental uniqueness and

to just be completely seen and

adored and beheld and.

And if you're not connected to be. Ourself, then how do you know that the

other person is even? Exactly. And like the wounded self is gonna be like,

it doesn't see me. I want to be seen. But it's like, do you see

you? Have you. Do you. You know, like I just feel deeply

once you're living and breathing it. Well now you're going to be

magnetic to being seen in it and loved for it.

And also. Exactly. And

again the discernment. Because now when people say it's

like I want to be seen, okay. Because actually being

seen is amazing and it's also terrifying.

And it's also like, completely beautiful and

also brings up all this stuff and like,

you know, it's all of it. It's all of the above option. So

if we actually really see ourselves

and learn to appreciate and love these dimensions of our

being, from the shadowy ones to the

most transcendental ones to the soulful ones, to like, the whole.

The whole family, this whole multidimensional family,

then we're gonna know, does someone else actually love us

like that? And we're actually gonna, like, I

mean, really know it in the bones. Not

conceptually. Is this what it's like? I think maybe this is what it is and

what my friends tell me it is or whatever. No. Like,

no, there will be a. Here is a clear

knowing and then a clear knowing for when

it's happening. And also in every relationship, we all still remain

totally human. There's gon. Oopses. There's going

to be moments of. Ideally, hopefully there

could be moments of profound intimacy. And then there's going to be times where we

drop the ball, or they drop the ball, or we both drop the ball. And

so repair and gentleness and patience

and kindness is a huge part of this because

we're all trying to

undo, in this way of trying to transform from

our intimacy were, as you're saying, going against

however many hundreds of thousands of years or millions of years of

conditioning. Right. This is not. No joke. This is not something.

This is not something that. Okay, I'm done with that.

All of that on the new truth here. Give me two weeks. I'll be good

to go. Time. Just be a two week, you know. No, it's. It's good.

Be an ongoing thing. But the good news is

the more we connect to,

there'll always be that part. Sure. There'll always be some conditioning

and ongoing deconditioning. That's like

generational tasks. This is not. But

also it's totally possible to

really start to experience what it is to feel actual love,

to actually be loved and to love. And then we still have

to figure out how to do that with safety and the world and other

people's stuff, you know. Yeah. So that's a big endeavor.

But the empowerment question or the sovereignty question is

access your own sovereignty in a general way first,

in an overall sense of life, I would say. And then start

to. Specifically, if one feels particularly drawn to this

dimension, start to experience that same

fundamental map and that same fundamental process supporting. Okay,

now that there's an understanding of the humanity and the soul and the spirit, and

then the sovereignty connecting them. What are these

different parts of us actually? What is their history? What is their experience

relative to our sexual history? What are they longing for?

What are they asking for? What kind of safeties do they need? Need?

And this creates just so much more. As I was saying earlier,

there are so many potential zones of intimacy.

And again, the story of it has to immediately

go to sex, and sex has to, you know, go like

this. And then if, okay, and, oh, the person likes me. So now we have

to do this, and then we have to do the next thing, and then we

have to do the next thing. And,

you know, know, one of the things that's possible is, like,

by creating some differentiation, like, for people and couples. When

we're working with couples, I work with a friend of mine, a woman

named Sarah, and we do individuals, we work with couples, you know, one of

the things we do often in the beginning is like, a little bit of differentiation.

Some healthy, like, fasting to create some tension and some

space between when it's too enmeshed.

And so it can be fun to return to. Like,

especially when you get in touch with the soul and the spiritual parts, our sensitivities

grow deeply, so the sensitivity to

pleasure grows immensely. Like,

immensely. And all of a sudden, hand holding

again can become profoundly electric.

And eye gazing or cuddling or

just kissing or almost kissing, but not. And like. And you know, it's

like, everyone knows that feeling in the honeymoon, you know, but it's

like to it later, I think is the most profound thing because

that's what gets lost. It's like, that's how it is in the beginning. It's like

you like someone and then you touch hands by accident. You're like, ooh. Even when

you're young and you feel that feeling. And then.

And then what happens in. In my experience of

myself and witnessing other women when I. When my saboteur is running

the show? It's. It's the, like, rush to the finish line. Like,

okay, now we just gotta commit. We gotta move in. We gotta get to the.

We gotta get to the next phase. And the next phase, the next phase. Next

thing you know, they're cr. Their closet. Like, why hate my life? Like, I have

all the things I wanted. Now I have, like, a sexless marriage and we don't

even cuddle and we hate each other. And it's like, because we

missed. Because exactly what you're saying. We're, like, not in the experience and

not enjoying the magic of being able to be

in the experience from all of these parts of self. God, this episode is

so fucking valuable. It's crazy. So.

So how did. How do women or couples. Women

who are in relationship or not in relationship. Relationship. How do they go deeper with

you? No pun intended.

Slow down. We're not going deeper. Not bad.

Yeah. So like I said, there's

my friend, partner

in work things, co facilitator

Sarah. And we. We have a container we call liberated

love, which goes through a lot of these dimensions. And

it's great for someone who's maybe they're

coming out of a relationship history or they haven't been in one in

a while or they're single or solo. It's a

beautiful process to learn. We all basically have to

unlearn and relearn to connect with our native

energies in this regard. To some.

Some, like we said, like the conditioning is so

problematic on so many levels. Like everybody's gonna have to go

through some decontamination. Like it's just part of it. It's not

personal to anyone. It's not an attack on anybody. It's just like

there's gonna be a period of just undoing and unlearning

and unraveling. Yeah. And

that's whether you're inc. Relationship in

relationship. We're always in relationship to ourselves, whether partnered or

not. So we just start with that.

We start with trying to like just a lot of gentle

disentangling as we've been saying and

differentiating and some space to then

have some consent and some permission for these other

parts of us to have some room to space week and start

to familiarize ourself with what's really going on here.

And not the conditioned responses, but also

just to notice, gain awareness when the conditioned

responses happen because they are going to still happen. Like,

whoops, there went that again. There's that whole pie

pattern like. And

to read connect, especially if someone is

coming to it more like wanting to change their own relationship to themself

for the basis of either renewing an existing relationship

or the potential of a future relationship. That's always

the starting place is to get in touch with

what do each of these three parts of us need?

The humanity small S

self part of us needs safety and trust and

reliability and for things to slow way down.

Everybody is going way too fast in.

This zone, in all zones, like in life.

They're scheduling like God, no wonder.

So that we can come back to. And then from like

a nervous system point of view, how to experience what the nervous

system feels like in a relaxed state. And how

arousal actually requires relaxation and safety

versus most people's experience of arousal

physiologically is like basically kind of on

the edge of being a fight or flight response. Like it's either they're

numb or they're like, like too cranked up, you

know. So to be able to slow down

and experience gentle, healthy

building of arousal so that it

becomes more this, like the hot

coals, you know, this like warm embers of the fire of

a nice slow fire. Like that's

actually what, what is sustainable. Not this

go from zero to a hundred and then depletion

and then whatever pornography. And then you get

desensitized and then you need harder and harder. People watch

more intense stuff and they get more desensitized and then they're in a

numbing and addictive tendency. It was like come back to

it's okay to actually feel pleasure in the body body. It's okay

to feel the wind on your neck and smell the

flowers and look at a beautiful face

and just really come back to basic, foundational,

relaxed, slowed down beauty

appreciation, observation of all the wonder

that's around us. Because really eros,

capital E. Eros includes the sexual. But it's really just like

the juiciness of existence. Like

the food tastes better and the colors are

crisper and the sounds are cleaner and like

we can actually just start to live with

way more pleasure and relaxation in our lives.

Move to Greece or Kenya. That helps. That helped

me so much because to live in cultures that are sensual

and that are slower and that are where the beauties.

Beauties everywhere on planet Earth. But to live in cultures where it's easier

to move slower really helped me with that piece.

But yeah, God, as you're talking, I'm thinking about the

dating world now. I mean, I remember the exact opposite. Of all of

that. It's the opposite when I was in Greece and I was like, okay, I

have a podcast about dating and relationships. Guess I should try online dating because

I'd never done it when I broke up with Jeff and moved to Greece. So

I did it for a little while while. And then I met Patricio, my last

partner. We. I actually met a partner on there. We had a great three year

relationship and we grew a lot. But the date

they got, the only reason Patricio made it, made it to the

next level was because he didn't

try anything because we had emotional intimacy

texting. I actually got bit in the face by a dog two days after we

met. Virtually like before, before we'd met in person and

Then we started cultivating a couple weeks of just texting and voicing

notes. And then after that and him supporting me through getting bit

in the face by a dog. I had surgery and it was a, you know,

and he was a football coach, so injuries and like he, it was so sweet.

So that's how we started connecting. But then we went on our first date and

it was eight hours of talking, you know, four hours of coffee and four hours

of dinner. And he didn't try anything, walked me home, didn't try anything.

Like said by at the door, gave me a hug, kiss on the cheek. And

that, that stood out so much because every single

date I went on, the guys were trying, they were trying, they were like eating

my face and trying to go upstairs. And it's like everyone. And then I hear

this from clients too. Like that's what's out there. But as you were

describing the woman who's connected to the energy of

Eros, I'm imagining this is how we change. Like

I often hear women say, oh, but there's no like non of conscious men

who are self aware lalala. It's like be the change in the world you wish

to see. If you're the woman on the day date who's deeply

slow and connected. The guys that are super fast get

spat out so fast and then you start to attract the ones who

move slower and you, you, you embody it. So you're,

you're leading with it. Yeah,

and there's absolutely. And I'm sorry for all those bad

experiences on behalf of all man on. Planet earth, like

Scowcros. Gross. It is

so gross. I remember being like, seriously, is this all this other now? Like it's.

Oh, it's awesome. It's like fast food. It's like McDonald's

instead of Annalina, you know, it's just so gross.

It's so gross. So, so yeah, no, go

ahead. Well, I was saying, and that helps

to cultivate, to speak like, you know,

there's lots of layers and uniqueness for each person. But just on the humanity side,

side, the self side, the nervous system side, we need safety.

Right. And, and particularly, you know,

you know, women have the history as you named, of their

sexual existence being subordinate and

submitted to their survival needs. And that's

still in everybody's bones. No matter what

our think happy thoughts and tell myself

affirmations like, great, but you know, we're talking about stuff that's in

your bones. So

we need to know what safety actually is with each other.

Right. And what are the actual signals. And one of the most important

is the person is slowed down

in themselves and they can be in slowed down space

with another person. Person. Ooh,

yeah, that's hot. That's. That's important.

That's where, that's where slow

burn. And like, then you can start to build

some fun if it's there. And, and maybe, maybe

it doesn't go in a sexual way. Maybe it just becomes this like sweet

kind of brother, sister kind of dynamic. And then the slowed down is like, oh,

you know, what's really here is like really sweet friendship.

And isn't that a beautiful. Like, God knows, so many people are lonely

and they assume that the only answer to loneliness is,

you know, getting to bed with someone. Like, I don't know, there's the whole

history of the world called family and friendship. Maybe that also is important.

Actually, it's the fourth. It's the four things you named.

It's the spirit, the self, the spirit, the soul and the sovereignty. And once

we have that, we're never lost because you're with yourself. And then

when you're with yourself, you're a magnet to being with so many. And then the

love is abounding and you're not so desperate to just have one person fill that

need. And then you can be much more discerning, as you said.

And, and yeah. And enjoy the multiple

kinds of loves. Like that comes out. Exactly. Rather than

just trying to force everything to be this one thing that someone else told you

you were supposed to have and want. It's insane. Okay, so

again we're going to talk forever. So let's wrap

up working with you because I imagine a lot of women are going to want

to in some capacity. So the program is, Sarah, is that a group

program or is it individual? Right now we've

loselly been working with individuals and couples.

We've thrown out group ideas. But mostly the feedback has been. Might change.

But mostly the feedback has been like, ooh, too intimate for people.

I don't know. So we're generally quite open to

creating containers that are, you know, very

dependent on what person wants and how they want to be flexible with it.

So we have a general framework and then it has lots of possibility for

the uniqueness of each person or couple or. Yeah,

beautiful. Amazing. Okay, so if you're ready to become a sexually

empowered women. Woman. Women. More than one woman.

And starting with, you know, really building a relationship with those

aspects of yourself, like I. So much of my growth comes from working with you.

I. I think I worked with you for at least a year in the. That.

That first year of my work in the world. There's no effing way I would

be doing and have created everything I have in my life and in my work

without you. That was the foundation. So I highly,

highly recommend working with you and your heart and

your. The safety that you create, even just in this

conversation, in every conversation I have with you, in every interaction

I have with you. And, yeah, just the brilliance of the

holistic model that you teach and embody.

So we will link below this episode

any assets to. Or any links that you have

to have women find you and

join this program with you and Sarah. Is there a website you want to say

out loud? Or social media or any links you want to say out loud?

I have a substack, which is where I have

my articles, and I also have sort of teachings,

podcast style. So that's just. That's called

Liquid Love is the name of the substack. And it's

so you can hear lots of my voice and,

like, versions of this teaching of the self and the soul and spirit. And

there's other ones on specifically the Zone of Intimacy, and

there's a lot more we can go into on that. But, yeah, that's. So that's

my primary thing that I do. Amazing.

Amazing. Check out his substack. That's so sweet. I was actually just thinking you're,

like, a brilliant angel of love. I feel like that's your

role in the world. You're, like, so brilliant and powerful, but such an

angel. You just have such angelic energy. So I'm so grateful to know

you and to share you with the community, and

thank you so much for being here. Check Chris's substack out and all

his other magic linked below this episode. What's your website?

Do you have one? The substack is. What is it? I think it's

just Sea Dirkies. I always forget I have to look it up even.

It's Liquid Love is the name of it. And then there's Liquid

Love. Yeah, yeah, that's the substack. And, Chris, thank you for having me. And

obviously, your name will be on the podcast episode. They'll be able to find it.

All right, love you so much. Thank you so much for being here and all

your wisdom, and we will see y' all soon. And as always, share

this episode with every woman you know who needs to hear it, which I believe

is all women. And we'll see you next week.