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Howdy, everybody.

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Bob Tallman for No Spin Rodeo.

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No politics, no BS.

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Just hard hitting news, and

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 rodeo commentary from two of the most trusted sources in our sport.

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Kendra Santos, Tommy Joe Lucia.

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Listen up.

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Here we go.

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Hello, no spinners.

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Welcome to episode 110.

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110 of No Span Rodeo.

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Thank you all, if you're setting in your car, if you're watching us on YouTube.

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However, you're listening to us.

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Welcome also, um, I'm

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 I'm Robin to this Batman.

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Um, Batwoman, the 1st lady of pro

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 rodeo journalism.

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Good September morning, Kendra Santos.

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How are you today?

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Can you believe Labor Day is coming at us this week?

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Amazing.

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It's a, it's a, it's a, um, It's

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 a symptom of getting older and that is time goes faster.

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And when you get older, that's all you talk about.

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As you get older, if you notice, you talk about how much you go to the bathroom,

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 how fast time is flying and who all has died.

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Um, I, that's so funny because I,

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 I just had this conversation with Od a couple nights ago.

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Me?

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Most evenings, if I'm around home,

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 I'm watching the sun go down in my hammock and I set down some

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 new ground rolls a couple nights ago and I said, here's

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 what we're not going to do as we get older.

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The golden years are not going to amount to us talking about while we

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 ate today and anything to do with the bathroom.

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Did you have your prunes?

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Four prunes, Kendra, before noon.

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Not having it.

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Well, you better keep it in mind because

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 if you don't go to the bathroom, it's not a good thing.

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So that's all I'm saying.

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That's important to a man, by the way, in case you didn't know that as a woman.

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Like going the restroom is an important

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 feature of life for the typical male, just so you know.

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Here's though, what I've noticed in a lifetime of having, you know.

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A dad, grandpa, uncles,

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 brothers, sons.

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Whatever all men.

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It's like this big event.

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Women are like, I talked to Od about this.

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He's like, yes, I'm, I'm, you know, I'm doing laundry today.

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I'm going to the post office.

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I'm like, that never makes a woman's to do list.

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You do these things, you know, like.

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The oven getting cleaned is not on the to-do list,

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 but it will happen today, but it's just a side note.

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Because we're, I think we're more of multitaskers

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 and you guys want to crown if you go to the bathroom.

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It's like, okay.

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Anyway, moving on.

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Moving on.

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How's how's the world?

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In Utah, it's fantastic.

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And I hope this happens in Texas soon.

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It feels like fall, praise God.

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Like, you can tell that

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 the heat has broken in Utah, and

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 I pray for that in Texas soon.

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Yes, um, well,

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 I'm in California, right at the moment, and it's,

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 uh, def- it's gone from above 100 to about 80.

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Very recently.

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We do, though, we, this is kind of the time

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 of year, this in springtime when we get some foggy mornings, which are really cool.

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And when it gets really hot, the fog,

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 right over the mountains where I can see, you know, rolls in

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 off the ocean and cools everything off, so it's kind of a blessing

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 to our weather pattern, which is why we've attracted Joe Beaver

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 to the central coast of California, by the way, it's our weather.

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But, um, Or maybe it helps the joints.

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Well, there, and there's, but there's also

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 been a lot of uh, fire smoke, wildfire smoke

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 haze in a lot of different places, including here.

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Yeah, there's the, of course,

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 there's lots of smoke in North Central Texas with that big

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 Ross fire, praying for all the families and the structures and the cattle.

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But it does look in the last few days like, again, I'm not a fireman.

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And all I get is to try to find the credible reports.

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Um, but it has small spread lines, but they're

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 able to do, they're, they're starting to be able to kind

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 of make it live within itself.

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Um, and maybe it won't grow so

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 much anymore.

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I mean, it was jumping, you know, 20,000 acres or something a

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 night, and it doesn't look like it's doing that.

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And so maybe, and then there's rain.

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there's rain, there's like a hurricane thing coming in and Houston

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 and up there's getting it.

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think it's going to push far enough up there for the Ross fire, but man,

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 it's deadly dangerous.

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It's deadly dangerous.

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You know?

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And it was interesting because one of the guy that takes care of

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 my place sent me a note.

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He said, hey, I think you probably should brush hog your place and I said,

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 do you realize that that's how most of the fires start in Texas when it's this dry?

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Is brush hogging?

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People hit rocks, start a spark.

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You don't brush hog when it's this dry, people,

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 and oh, guess what?

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You don't weld on the fence.

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Oh, and guess what?

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You don't park a hot truck in the middle of the field.

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I mean, these people just keep doing stupid things.

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Yeah, I got a scary call a few years ago,

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 a guy, a sweet old rancher driving down our

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 little 2 lane road had, like his tailpipe

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 was dragging or something and started everything on fire.

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Um, it happens pretty easily.

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Also, I can't believe in this day and age people throw cigarette

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 butts out the window, but some people still do.

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But um, anyway, as we roll into Labor Day weekend.

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For me, that means Ellensburg, right?

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And so I think, uh, really cool, uh,

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 congratulations to Sage Kimsy, uh,

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 Stephen Peebles, who, came back from a

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 terrible healthcare a couple years ago and the Orchid

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 family, congratulations on being inducted into the Ellensburg Hall of Fame.

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And I, Couldn't

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 make it till the very end for the best of the best roping that they

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 had last night there at the rodeo grounds, but I got

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 up before the chickens this morning and watched the

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 tail end of the open of the best of the best roping right there and

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 um, Cody Snow and Nikki Northcott won a pile.

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At the roping, um, preliminary.

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I know they're having slack today.

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It's it's Wednesday the 2nd and Slack is

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 um, lighting up the Ellensburg

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 rodeo grounds, but really cool when you can

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 put 10s of 1000s of dollars in your pocket on the eve of Slack.

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So, thank you, Ellensburg.

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Well, and you're going to join me in Pendleton, which is very exciting.

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I'm working and getting ready for the rank

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 45 Pendleton Expols finale at the Happy Canyon Arena.

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That's what I get to contribute to the Pendleton roundup.

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And interesting like, Side note.

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Um, There,

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 there's a bar down by the ground up grounds that

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 was traditionally always open late, that's not

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 going to be open late this year.

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So the Pendleton Committee is going to keep their fan zone

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 during the bull riding and stuff open later because

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 everybody used to walk across the street and now they can't.

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So, interesting side note, I don't know why a bar

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 would close early in Pendleton, but that's what I hear.

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Guess what?

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We have a special guest that I think is fixing to come on.

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So we're going to, we think it's a proper time to welcome

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 to our studio, the director of rodeo

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 administration for the professional rodeo cowboys association, Steve Knowles.

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Hello, Steve.

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Good morning to y'all.

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I assume you're sitting in Colorado and you haven't started riding

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 your bike to Wyoming yet.

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I haven't been sitting in Colorado Springs.

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It's still summertime here.

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I just mentioned it's becoming fall in Utah.

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You're not seeing any signs of fall there in the springs.

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It's 90 degrees today for the high.

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So we've had record heat

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 here for so far.

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Well, that's fantastic.

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Well, good morning.

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Thank you for joining us

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We're just going to do a little round table with you.

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I will say this, because our fans, I think,

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 um, you know, Kendra's fans on ours, I've

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 been in this business a really long time, and I've,

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 I think that you've done the

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 very best job in that position that I've ever

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 seen for a couple of reasons.

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For one, I think you're straightforward.

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Um, and and part of what I want to get

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 into today is that all of the

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 armchair quarterbacks, you know, it's very interesting, and I I've

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 mentioned this before, I learned this when I got on a school board.

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Before I got on the school board, I thought everybody was doing everything wrong.

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And when I got on the board, I realized that there's so

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 much information that people don't have when a decision is made.

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And 90% of the time people are making decisions that

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 they think are best based on the information they have.

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And so my point is, and then I'll turn it over to Kendra to visit with you a little bit.

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This is a thankless job and I think, and

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 I'm not saying this because you're on.

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I'm telling my, the people that trust me, Steve

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 Knowles is is a good one and does the PRC an

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 excellent job in a very demanding position.

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So, Kendra,

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 I'll let you fire away at Steve with some questions and then I'll I'll

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 throw some in and we'll get this thing started.

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Okay, well.

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As the girl who 1st started at the PRCA

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 on January 12th, 1987 fresh out of college.

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There's, this is a random question,

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 but just curious, like.

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I would so often hear when

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 I was, you know, brand new, fresh face, you know.

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It was so often said,

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 the part of the culture in the office was those

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 stupid cowboys, like they were a pain in the ass, you know?

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Please tell me that in 2026,

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 the culture of the office.

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Has evolved beyond that.

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It has evolved, and I remind people,

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 we still have people probably here that were started close to the time you are.

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The culture, you know, we work for this association.

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those are our customers.

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Um, you know, even when I got here, it was so much

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 we were in charge.

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We told them.

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They worked for us, but it's not, we work for them.

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And we can't always give in to everything they want to do.

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But we do try to help people.

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You know, we, I always try to find a way to say yes.

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Uh, and it's hard to always say that,

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 but that's always my goal is to say yes to whatever the question is.

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Sometimes I can't.

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As long as it's compliant to the rule book.

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As long as compliant to the rule book, if we can help somebody

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 out, we we want to.

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That's our goal.

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You know, is to make it easy.

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We we hate fines.

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We hate conflicts.

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We want to try to please as many people as we can.

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Within the rules.

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And yet in a way, I mean,

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 I always know that you have a thankless job.

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I've known a lot of directors of radio administration and it is very,

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 it's very tough because you get, what, mostly

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 complaint calls, right?

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People questioning something and then you have to.

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It's not always fun to answer the questions, right?

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But my question is, I feel like it's impossible.

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Here, it's, it's, if you work for the PRCA,

246
00:11:38,998 --> 00:11:40,966
 it's a member organization.

247
00:11:40,966 --> 00:11:43,936
So the way I always would say when those, when

248
00:11:43,969 --> 00:11:46,939
 people would say, oh, those, those stupid cowboys, I'd be like, that's our boss.

249
00:11:47,973 --> 00:11:48,941
That's who we work for.

250
00:11:48,974 --> 00:11:50,943
But it's, it is.

251
00:11:50,976 --> 00:11:53,946
It feels like it's fundamentally impossible.

252
00:11:53,979 --> 00:11:56,949
to make everyone happy

253
00:11:56,982 --> 00:12:00,953
 when you're talking about members being contestants,

254
00:12:00,986 --> 00:12:02,955
 stock contractors, contract personnel, right?

255
00:12:03,989 --> 00:12:04,957
Correct.

256
00:12:04,990 --> 00:12:07,960
And I find 90% of my calls are

257
00:12:07,993 --> 00:12:09,962
 not even questions I can answer.

258
00:12:09,995 --> 00:12:10,963
They just want to be heard.

259
00:12:10,996 --> 00:12:13,966
You know, if you'll listen, take the time to listen to somebody.

260
00:12:14,967 --> 00:12:16,936
It'll satisfy it a lot of times.

261
00:12:16,969 --> 00:12:19,939
You know, there is hard questions that I do have to answer, but just

262
00:12:19,972 --> 00:12:20,940
 listen, you know.

263
00:12:20,973 --> 00:12:21,941
Be a good listener.

264
00:12:22,975 --> 00:12:24,944
That's what I think that's what I'm good at.

265
00:12:24,977 --> 00:12:27,947
So did I hear you say earlier?

266
00:12:28,981 --> 00:12:31,951
That all of your decisions are based

267
00:12:31,984 --> 00:12:32,952
 on the rule book.

268
00:12:32,985 --> 00:12:35,955
Well, I would like to think so.

269
00:12:35,988 --> 00:12:37,957
I've made decisions with my heart.

270
00:12:37,990 --> 00:12:40,960
Also, that usually bites me in the butt

271
00:12:40,993 --> 00:12:41,961
 at the end of the day.

272
00:12:41,994 --> 00:12:42,962
Fair enough.

273
00:12:42,995 --> 00:12:46,966
You know, if you're a compassionate person, it's hard not to, to

274
00:12:46,999 --> 00:12:49,969
 let your emotions get involved on decision making.

275
00:12:49,969 --> 00:12:51,937
I've been wrong a lot of times.

276
00:12:51,971 --> 00:12:55,941
So, but I try to stick by my decision right or wrong.

277
00:12:56,976 --> 00:12:59,945
How do you serve the

278
00:12:59,979 --> 00:13:02,948
 top 15, which is the minority of the membership?

279
00:13:02,982 --> 00:13:04,950
And also serve.

280
00:13:05,985 --> 00:13:08,954
Those who are not top 15 types

281
00:13:08,988 --> 00:13:10,956
 who make up the majority.

282
00:13:10,990 --> 00:13:11,957
How do you do that?

283
00:13:11,957 --> 00:13:13,959
You know, I don't, I guess my most of my time has dealt

284
00:13:13,993 --> 00:13:15,961
 with non-top 15 issues.

285
00:13:16,996 --> 00:13:19,965
Um, You know, the top 15, they're they're the winners.

286
00:13:19,999 --> 00:13:20,966
They the Korean.

287
00:13:20,966 --> 00:13:22,935
They're going to they're going to win the most.

288
00:13:22,968 --> 00:13:25,938
Uh, you know, most of my, you know, I do a lot of

289
00:13:25,971 --> 00:13:28,941
 circuit level decisions and conversations.

290
00:13:28,974 --> 00:13:29,942
You know, that's the guys.

291
00:13:29,975 --> 00:13:31,944
I really strive to help the circuit guys.

292
00:13:31,977 --> 00:13:34,947
You know, that is the back boat of what we have.

293
00:13:34,980 --> 00:13:37,950
The top 15 is always going to be successful.

294
00:13:37,983 --> 00:13:41,954
But you're killing the circuit guys by letting by

295
00:13:41,987 --> 00:13:43,956
 letting all of these sharks in every circuit.

296
00:13:43,989 --> 00:13:45,958
I know.

297
00:13:45,991 --> 00:13:46,458
I know.

298
00:13:46,458 --> 00:13:46,926
Whose decision?

299
00:13:47,993 --> 00:13:48,961
Whose decision is that?

300
00:13:48,994 --> 00:13:51,964
Well, it's always the board makes the decisions.

301
00:13:51,997 --> 00:13:53,966
I just have to go by the board's decision.

302
00:13:53,999 --> 00:13:57,970
Doesn't it feel like that's cutting the throat of the circuit guys on our own?

303
00:13:57,970 --> 00:14:00,940
It is, it is, but also the top 15,

304
00:14:00,973 --> 00:14:01,941
they support the circuit.

305
00:14:01,974 --> 00:14:02,942
So I have the, I have their back.

306
00:14:03,976 --> 00:14:06,946
They're willing to go to the 15 rodeos that

307
00:14:06,979 --> 00:14:08,948
 support their circuit.

308
00:14:08,981 --> 00:14:11,951
They're a circuit cowboy defeat, even though they, they're

309
00:14:11,984 --> 00:14:12,952
 also NFR cowboy.

310
00:14:12,985 --> 00:14:13,953
I think you can be both.

311
00:14:13,986 --> 00:14:15,955
It's hard, but you can be both.

312
00:14:16,989 --> 00:14:19,959
Is the circuit system there too?

313
00:14:19,992 --> 00:14:22,962
Serve circuit contestants or the top 15?

314
00:14:22,995 --> 00:14:24,964
Well, circuit.

315
00:14:24,997 --> 00:14:27,967
Circuit people, which can be a top 15 guy.

316
00:14:28,968 --> 00:14:31,937
And in Tommy Joe's circuit, the wilderness, it's a monster.

317
00:14:31,971 --> 00:14:35,941
They have the biggest, best rodeos as circuit rodeos.

318
00:14:35,975 --> 00:14:38,944
You know, so if they go to the 15 minimum

319
00:14:38,978 --> 00:14:41,947
 requirement, 15 rodeos, the right family.

320
00:14:41,981 --> 00:14:42,948
They're circuit cowboys.

321
00:14:42,982 --> 00:14:44,950
Even though they're able to make the, you know, R.

322
00:14:44,984 --> 00:14:48,954
You know, you can be both, in my opinion, as well.

323
00:14:48,988 --> 00:14:50,956
And it's, it's not.

324
00:14:50,990 --> 00:14:53,959
It's not the, it's not the top 15's

325
00:14:53,993 --> 00:14:56,962
 fault that they're able to go to 15 circuit

326
00:14:56,996 --> 00:14:59,965
 rodeos and win more than the circuit guys that

327
00:15:00,966 --> 00:15:01,934
 can go to 40.

328
00:15:01,967 --> 00:15:03,936
It's not their fault.

329
00:15:03,969 --> 00:15:06,939
And I don't know that it's fair to cut them out in it.

330
00:15:06,972 --> 00:15:09,942
And, and, you know, I, I've been, I've been

331
00:15:09,975 --> 00:15:12,945
 talking with people about this, and they're like, whoa, you just, you

332
00:15:12,978 --> 00:15:14,947
 just go off of their driver's license.

333
00:15:14,980 --> 00:15:15,948
Well, let me tell you something.

334
00:15:15,981 --> 00:15:18,951
There's kids that get into the Brock school that use the

335
00:15:18,984 --> 00:15:19,952
 grandparents' addresses.

336
00:15:20,986 --> 00:15:21,954
There's always ways around that.

337
00:15:21,987 --> 00:15:23,956
So don't don't give me that.

338
00:15:23,989 --> 00:15:25,958
But, you know, kindred, it is kind of fair.

339
00:15:25,991 --> 00:15:28,961
If a guy can go there to 15 rodeos, is that the, is that the minimum,

340
00:15:29,995 --> 00:15:32,965
 you have to compete in a circuit to be able to, be a circuit guy?

341
00:15:32,998 --> 00:15:35,968
It is, it is now, as a circuit

342
00:15:35,968 --> 00:15:37,937
 resident, 15 is the minimum.

343
00:15:37,970 --> 00:15:40,940
And I think it's dependent on how many rodeos are in your circuit.

344
00:15:40,973 --> 00:15:41,941
I think they can go as high as 18.

345
00:15:41,974 --> 00:15:42,942
That's up to the circuit board.

346
00:15:42,975 --> 00:15:45,945
Well, if you're if you're a non-fundamentally,

347
00:15:45,978 --> 00:15:48,947
 if you're a non-resident, you have to go to more rodeos to count that circuit, right?

348
00:15:49,982 --> 00:15:50,950
Correct.

349
00:15:50,950 --> 00:15:53,952
Yeah, 15's the, uh, you know, 15 would be the circuit rather.

350
00:15:53,986 --> 00:15:55,955
You know, but as Tommy Joe said,

351
00:15:55,988 --> 00:15:58,957
You know, they have, where do they live?

352
00:15:58,991 --> 00:15:59,958
Who knows where they live?

353
00:15:59,992 --> 00:16:00,960
You know, they consider.

354
00:16:00,993 --> 00:16:03,962
You know, we just got to go by where they get their mail.

355
00:16:03,996 --> 00:16:06,966
Um, you know, where they pay their power bill.

356
00:16:06,999 --> 00:16:07,966
Who knows?

357
00:16:07,966 --> 00:16:09,935
I have a Florida tiger's license, Tommy Joe.

358
00:16:09,969 --> 00:16:12,938
You know, I've been living in Colorado Springs, so there you go.

359
00:16:12,971 --> 00:16:15,941
I, I, On the circuit

360
00:16:15,975 --> 00:16:18,944
 thing, I mean, this is a, this is a conversation that's gone on for,

361
00:16:18,977 --> 00:16:21,947
 for decades and and, and I, I went to the 1st

362
00:16:21,980 --> 00:16:24,950
 ever DNCFR, you know, precursor

363
00:16:24,984 --> 00:16:28,954
 to the RNCFR and now the NFR open in Pocatello,

364
00:16:28,988 --> 00:16:29,955
 Idaho in 1987.

365
00:16:29,989 --> 00:16:32,958
And, and a few years in, maybe around

366
00:16:32,991 --> 00:16:33,959
 1994.

367
00:16:34,994 --> 00:16:38,964
So when Jake and Clay were winning their 7th world titles or whatever.

368
00:16:38,998 --> 00:16:41,967
I remember being at the national circuit finals,

369
00:16:41,967 --> 00:16:45,938
 and Jake Barnes was like a brother to me, and him saying, Kendra,

370
00:16:45,971 --> 00:16:48,941
 we shouldn't be here, and they won it like a record number of times.

371
00:16:48,974 --> 00:16:51,944
And he said, this is this is supposed to be the

372
00:16:51,977 --> 00:16:53,946
 day in the sun for the circuit guys.

373
00:16:53,946 --> 00:16:55,948
But it counts, and so we have to be here.

374
00:16:55,981 --> 00:16:58,951
And I don't know what you guys say to that, but it's

375
00:16:58,984 --> 00:17:01,954
 like, should the NFR Open count toward the world standings?

376
00:17:01,987 --> 00:17:02,955
What do you guys think?

377
00:17:03,989 --> 00:17:06,959
Personally, I think, yes, I think

378
00:17:06,992 --> 00:17:09,962
 if you're able to qualify there, you should count.

379
00:17:09,995 --> 00:17:11,964
I'm a big guy that everything should count.

380
00:17:11,997 --> 00:17:13,966
You know, all your money once you tell.

381
00:17:13,999 --> 00:17:14,967
Um,

382
00:17:14,967 --> 00:17:18,937
I do see the circuit, you know, I know Jack Hanna very well.

383
00:17:18,971 --> 00:17:22,941
He's the designer, the father of the circuit system.

384
00:17:22,975 --> 00:17:25,944
So, You know, I know what he had in mind and

385
00:17:25,978 --> 00:17:27,946
 it wasn't for the top 15 guys.

386
00:17:27,980 --> 00:17:29,948
It's just change with the money.

387
00:17:29,982 --> 00:17:30,949
you know the money's so big.

388
00:17:30,983 --> 00:17:33,952
Uh, The circuit rodeos are bigger.

389
00:17:33,986 --> 00:17:36,955
It's a double edged sword, and our board flips every other year,

390
00:17:36,989 --> 00:17:38,957
 whether it counts, whether it doesn't count.

391
00:17:38,991 --> 00:17:39,958
Um, you know,

392
00:17:40,993 --> 00:17:44,963
Whatever way we go, we always make half the people angry.

393
00:17:44,997 --> 00:17:47,966
Well, that's a problem in itself because when you go to

394
00:17:47,966 --> 00:17:50,936
 changing rules every other year, and somebody's worked really

395
00:17:50,969 --> 00:17:53,939
 hard this year, to comply with the rules as

396
00:17:53,972 --> 00:17:56,942
 they are, and then they flip next year, it's very frustrating, as you well

397
00:17:56,975 --> 00:17:57,943
 know, pretty good.

398
00:17:58,977 --> 00:17:59,945
you know, it was on our,

399
00:17:59,978 --> 00:18:02,948
It was on our board agenda this year to discuss with

400
00:18:02,981 --> 00:18:04,950
 new rules, whether it counted or not.

401
00:18:04,983 --> 00:18:05,951
They didn't act on it.

402
00:18:05,984 --> 00:18:09,955
Um, But they could have, you know, they could have switched right now.

403
00:18:09,988 --> 00:18:10,956
And you're exactly right.

404
00:18:10,989 --> 00:18:13,959
I put the finish line out there, then somebody makes it,

405
00:18:13,992 --> 00:18:15,961
 then we flip, and it's always hard.

406
00:18:15,994 --> 00:18:18,964
I'm I want to stay consistent.

407
00:18:18,997 --> 00:18:19,965
However we do it.

408
00:18:19,998 --> 00:18:22,968
Stay consistent and currently we've been counting it.

409
00:18:22,968 --> 00:18:25,938
And personally, that's, I feel like that's the way it should be.

410
00:18:25,971 --> 00:18:28,941
I feel like it would be helpful to people who

411
00:18:28,974 --> 00:18:31,944
 who aren't really clear how it works, for you

412
00:18:31,977 --> 00:18:34,947
 to, for us to step all the way back, for you, you know, you're the

413
00:18:34,980 --> 00:18:37,950
 PRCA director of rodeo administration and, and hey,

414
00:18:38,984 --> 00:18:40,953
 you know, Tom Glouse is the commissioner.

415
00:18:40,986 --> 00:18:43,956
How you guys work with

416
00:18:43,989 --> 00:18:46,959
 the PRCA board of directors and what powers you

417
00:18:46,992 --> 00:18:49,962
 guys have and don't have and how much are you guys carrying

418
00:18:49,995 --> 00:18:52,965
 out with the board decides and how much do you guys decide?

419
00:18:53,999 --> 00:18:56,969
You know, as far as rules board

420
00:18:56,969 --> 00:18:59,938
 has 100% of the decision making, on what

421
00:18:59,972 --> 00:19:01,940
 rules get, ask, what rules don't.

422
00:19:01,974 --> 00:19:04,977
Tom is, he is, uh, He

423
00:19:04,977 --> 00:19:06,945
 has the power to run all the day to day operations.

424
00:19:07,980 --> 00:19:09,948
He can make decisions, he can sign contracts.

425
00:19:09,982 --> 00:19:12,951
And I get, I can do any business thing

426
00:19:12,985 --> 00:19:14,953
 as long as Tom's approved without the board.

427
00:19:14,987 --> 00:19:17,956
But rules are not touchable for me.

428
00:19:17,990 --> 00:19:21,960
I can't, you know, I can have rules proposed as a staff member.

429
00:19:21,994 --> 00:19:24,963
But the board still has to act on them and say

430
00:19:24,997 --> 00:19:25,964
 yay or nay on them.

431
00:19:25,998 --> 00:19:28,967
It takes years to get a new rule pass, doesn't it?

432
00:19:28,967 --> 00:19:30,936
About 3 years, you know, time you get it posted.

433
00:19:30,969 --> 00:19:31,937
It has to sit, you know, for a couple years.

434
00:19:31,970 --> 00:19:34,940
They act on it, then it, you know, about year 3 is when it kicks in.

435
00:19:34,973 --> 00:19:36,942
It does, they can expedite rules.

436
00:19:37,976 --> 00:19:38,944
They do.

437
00:19:38,977 --> 00:19:41,947
Sometimes and it usually is.

438
00:19:41,980 --> 00:19:44,950
Does it turn out well when we do because they, it ain't

439
00:19:44,983 --> 00:19:48,954
 that time to vet these, you know, you really got to think through some of these rule changes before.

440
00:19:48,987 --> 00:19:51,957
They're acted on, and that 3 year, 2

441
00:19:51,990 --> 00:19:55,961
 year, 2 to 3 year process seems like a vetting time for everybody to think about.

442
00:19:56,995 --> 00:19:59,965
Would you guys want to talk about some of the biggest

443
00:19:59,998 --> 00:20:01,967
 role changes for 2027?

444
00:20:01,967 --> 00:20:02,935
Is this good a time as any?

445
00:20:02,968 --> 00:20:04,937
Sure, absolutely.

446
00:20:04,970 --> 00:20:07,940
You know, and I think members, contestant wise,

447
00:20:07,973 --> 00:20:11,944
 our biggest one's probably the turnout deadlines, uh, Currently

448
00:20:11,977 --> 00:20:15,948
 for, since I can remember, was 3 hours and it's moved back to 5 hours.

449
00:20:15,981 --> 00:20:18,951
So, it is a benefit for,

450
00:20:18,984 --> 00:20:21,954
 um, I think it's a bigger benefit for kind of incondestants,

451
00:20:22,988 --> 00:20:25,958
 because as you know, Kendra, if they had a morning slack,

452
00:20:25,991 --> 00:20:28,961
 8 AM slack somewhere, the turnout deadline was 5

453
00:20:28,994 --> 00:20:29,962
 PM the night before.

454
00:20:30,996 --> 00:20:33,966
So, you know, a lot of things happen

455
00:20:33,999 --> 00:20:36,969
 in middle of night, whether you, was that a rodeo competing?

456
00:20:36,969 --> 00:20:39,938
Now it's a real time 5 hour, so at 8 AM slack,

457
00:20:39,972 --> 00:20:43,942
 you know, turns into a 3 AM turnout deadlight.

458
00:20:43,976 --> 00:20:46,945
And the biggest changes, now it's implemented

459
00:20:46,979 --> 00:20:49,948
 on real time, you do it on your phone or on your app.

460
00:20:49,982 --> 00:20:51,950
And it's real time.

461
00:20:51,984 --> 00:20:52,951
You can do it from your couch.

462
00:20:52,985 --> 00:20:53,952
You can do it from your car.

463
00:20:53,986 --> 00:20:54,953
You don't have to call anybody.

464
00:20:55,988 --> 00:20:56,955
You can just push a button.

465
00:20:56,955 --> 00:20:58,957
So what's the benefit of that to contestants?

466
00:20:58,991 --> 00:21:01,960
They can, you know, a lot of time debate contestants

467
00:21:01,994 --> 00:21:02,961
 are up at a rodeo on that night.

468
00:21:03,996 --> 00:21:06,965
You know, say Friday night and they're

469
00:21:06,999 --> 00:21:07,966
 up at a slack Saturday morning.

470
00:21:07,966 --> 00:21:09,935
Well, they had to turn out the slack.

471
00:21:09,968 --> 00:21:11,937
At 5 PM.

472
00:21:11,970 --> 00:21:13,972
What if they get hurt that night at the rodeo or injured?

473
00:21:13,972 --> 00:21:15,941
They had no way to turn out.

474
00:21:15,974 --> 00:21:17,943
They already passed the deadline.

475
00:21:18,977 --> 00:21:22,948
Now that turnout deadline for them is 3 AM for a 8 AM slack.

476
00:21:22,981 --> 00:21:25,951
Does it also allow for more walk up replacements?

477
00:21:25,984 --> 00:21:29,955
Um, I think it's the same opportunity for walk up replacements.

478
00:21:29,988 --> 00:21:31,957
We don't replace people in the slack.

479
00:21:31,957 --> 00:21:33,959
You can't walk up in the slack. unless it's

480
00:21:33,992 --> 00:21:35,961
 a perform, you know, you have to be in a performance to be on the walkout.

481
00:21:36,995 --> 00:21:37,963
It could.

482
00:21:37,963 --> 00:21:39,965
You know, it gives them more time to figure out who's going to walk up.

483
00:21:40,999 --> 00:21:41,967
There's a couple more hours there.

484
00:21:41,967 --> 00:21:45,937
Give stock contractors more time to, uh,

485
00:21:45,971 --> 00:21:48,940
 uh, you know, put their day sheets together, they run

486
00:21:48,974 --> 00:21:52,944
 a show, their stock list with it, you know, gives them a couple extra hours on that.

487
00:21:53,979 --> 00:21:55,947
I think there's benefit for all.

488
00:21:55,981 --> 00:21:58,950
What other big rules are changing in 2027?

489
00:21:58,984 --> 00:22:01,953
Big, the big rules, uh, stock contractor memberships

490
00:22:02,988 --> 00:22:04,956
 have really, you know, we've been on a 2 year, uh,

491
00:22:04,990 --> 00:22:08,960
Not selling any new memberships in the stock contract in the world.

492
00:22:08,994 --> 00:22:09,961
They open that back up.

493
00:22:09,995 --> 00:22:12,964
October 1st and it, uh,

494
00:22:12,998 --> 00:22:15,967
 financially it's a big, a larger investment than

495
00:22:15,967 --> 00:22:16,935
 what economy was.

496
00:22:16,968 --> 00:22:20,939
Um, I think in the past, about 67,000

497
00:22:20,972 --> 00:22:25,944
 could get you started, and now I think it's 175,000, so it's quite a jump.

498
00:22:25,977 --> 00:22:27,946
Who's that money going to?

499
00:22:27,946 --> 00:22:29,948
Well, that's that's membership fees.

500
00:22:29,981 --> 00:22:30,949
That's bond.

501
00:22:30,982 --> 00:22:33,952
Um, inspection fees.

502
00:22:33,985 --> 00:22:35,954
Uh, the, you get a bond.

503
00:22:35,954 --> 00:22:36,955
You know, you have to put a bond up for 3 years.

504
00:22:36,988 --> 00:22:38,957
You get it back, which is a 100 thousand.

505
00:22:38,990 --> 00:22:39,958
Of that.

506
00:22:39,991 --> 00:22:42,961
Did it used to be that you could only get in if

507
00:22:42,994 --> 00:22:44,963
 you bought out somebody else's old existing card?

508
00:22:44,996 --> 00:22:47,966
There was a, yeah, for there was a few years of that way too,

509
00:22:48,967 --> 00:22:49,935
 and you can still get in that way.

510
00:22:49,968 --> 00:22:53,939
But now you, and you have to have a lot of the,

511
00:22:53,972 --> 00:22:55,941
 the rodeo, you have to find 5 new rodeos.

512
00:22:55,974 --> 00:22:58,944
Uh, $5,000.

513
00:22:58,977 --> 00:23:01,947
Anybody with $165,000

514
00:23:02,981 --> 00:23:06,952
 in 5 new rodeos can now pretend to be a stock contractor.

515
00:23:06,985 --> 00:23:08,954
If they have the stock, if they beat the stock requirement.

516
00:23:08,987 --> 00:23:09,955
And that's the inspection.

517
00:23:10,989 --> 00:23:13,959
Inspection, and you have to have 50 horses,

518
00:23:13,992 --> 00:23:15,961
 25 bulls, uh, and all that, yes.

519
00:23:15,994 --> 00:23:17,996
There's some evaluation processors you go through.

520
00:23:17,996 --> 00:23:18,964
And who does the evaluations?

521
00:23:19,998 --> 00:23:22,968
Uh, you know, the valuation, we go actually

522
00:23:22,968 --> 00:23:24,936
 sit and watch some of their rodeos.

523
00:23:24,970 --> 00:23:26,938
Whether they're amateur or whatever.

524
00:23:27,973 --> 00:23:30,942
Do they have to own all those bulls and bucking

525
00:23:30,976 --> 00:23:32,944
 horses or can they be subcontracted?

526
00:23:32,978 --> 00:23:35,947
Nope, they have to own a minimum of 50 horses and 25 bulls.

527
00:23:36,982 --> 00:23:38,950
How good do they have to be?

528
00:23:38,984 --> 00:23:41,953
Uh, you know, we

529
00:23:42,988 --> 00:23:45,957
 don't have that process yet, you know, if you have 25.

530
00:23:46,992 --> 00:23:49,961
You don't really know how to judge them correctly, so you'd have a hard time with that.

531
00:23:49,995 --> 00:23:50,962
That's exactly right

532
00:23:50,996 --> 00:23:51,963
We'd have to.

533
00:23:51,997 --> 00:23:52,964
find a real judge.

534
00:23:53,999 --> 00:23:56,968
But that's some of the big changes

535
00:23:56,968 --> 00:23:57,936
 we have here this year.

536
00:23:58,970 --> 00:24:01,973
Um, they're, okay, what about,

537
00:24:01,973 --> 00:24:04,943
 there's one that has spoken to a lot of my cowboy

538
00:24:04,976 --> 00:24:07,946
 friends that now, you have to add 2500

539
00:24:08,980 --> 00:24:12,951
 per event, minimum to become a PRC rodeo, is that right?

540
00:24:12,984 --> 00:24:13,952
That's common.

541
00:24:13,985 --> 00:24:16,955
Um, This, if you're a brand new rodeo

542
00:24:16,988 --> 00:24:19,958
 coming, yes, you have to have 2500 or more per van.

543
00:24:19,991 --> 00:24:22,961
Um, but if you're an existing rodeo,

544
00:24:23,995 --> 00:24:25,964
 you have 3 years to get to that.

545
00:24:25,997 --> 00:24:27,966
What was the previous minimum?

546
00:24:27,999 --> 00:24:28,967
Uh, $500.

547
00:24:29,968 --> 00:24:30,936
Yikes.

548
00:24:30,969 --> 00:24:31,970
So that's fantastic.

549
00:24:31,970 --> 00:24:32,938
2030

550
00:24:33,972 --> 00:24:35,941
I believe it is, everybody will be at minimum of 25.

551
00:24:35,974 --> 00:24:37,943
That's progress.

552
00:24:37,976 --> 00:24:38,944
It is.

553
00:24:38,977 --> 00:24:40,946
I mean, it's 1500 this year.

554
00:24:40,979 --> 00:24:43,949
It jumps to 2000 and then it goes to, to uh, 25.

555
00:24:44,983 --> 00:24:47,953
What about the one in a short thing?

556
00:24:47,986 --> 00:24:50,989
They passed a rule where you have to have in the time defense?

557
00:24:50,989 --> 00:24:52,958
You have to have 2 full go rounds.

558
00:24:52,991 --> 00:24:54,960
to have a finals in the time?

559
00:24:55,994 --> 00:24:56,962
Why is that?

560
00:24:56,962 --> 00:24:57,963
What's what's the benefit for people who don't understand that?

561
00:24:58,997 --> 00:25:00,966
Our time event, guys?

562
00:25:00,966 --> 00:25:03,969
They don't like one go round in a short go for whatever reason.

563
00:25:03,969 --> 00:25:07,939
They just feel like their odds of getting through are not as good.

564
00:25:07,973 --> 00:25:10,942
So the time to get guys like the 2 go rounds, you

565
00:25:10,976 --> 00:25:11,943
 know, costs more to get there.

566
00:25:12,978 --> 00:25:14,946
So they like to be guaranteed to go route.

567
00:25:14,980 --> 00:25:16,948
It also cost the rodeo committee a lot more money.

568
00:25:17,983 --> 00:25:20,952
We had about 3 or 4 rodeos that

569
00:25:20,986 --> 00:25:22,954
 didn't meet that requirement currently.

570
00:25:22,988 --> 00:25:27,959
Um, and that was Casper Caldwell, maybe Tucson.

571
00:25:27,993 --> 00:25:30,962
And there may be one more that didn't meet.

572
00:25:30,996 --> 00:25:33,965
So my question, and I did ask out about that.

573
00:25:33,999 --> 00:25:36,968
I'm like, talk to me about one in the shorts, you know, they're not going to have that anymore.

574
00:25:36,968 --> 00:25:37,936
He goes, thank goodness.

575
00:25:37,969 --> 00:25:38,937
He goes, we hated it.

576
00:25:38,970 --> 00:25:40,939
It's fundamentally like a, like a one header.

577
00:25:41,973 --> 00:25:44,943
You know, you have to draw something just to get a 2nd chance and

578
00:25:44,976 --> 00:25:46,945
 if you've gone somewhere else.

579
00:25:46,945 --> 00:25:48,947
Then you have to go back, you know, so like

580
00:25:48,980 --> 00:25:51,950
 he's like, I take a 2 straight 2 or

581
00:25:51,983 --> 00:25:52,951
 a 2 and a short all day long.

582
00:25:53,985 --> 00:25:56,955
Everybody would, you know, because you don't have to draw the best one and all that kind of stuff,

583
00:25:56,988 --> 00:25:59,958
 but, but do you feel, do you have a, a

584
00:25:59,991 --> 00:26:02,961
 gut at, at how rodeos will respond?

585
00:26:02,994 --> 00:26:03,962
The ones that had one in a short?

586
00:26:03,995 --> 00:26:05,964
Do you think that they'll go to 2 in a short?

587
00:26:05,997 --> 00:26:08,967
Oh, I'm not sure, because it's a, as Tommy Jokin could

588
00:26:08,967 --> 00:26:12,938
 verify, the cost of an additional go round is quite high.

589
00:26:12,971 --> 00:26:14,940
You know, there's some costs there.

590
00:26:15,974 --> 00:26:16,942
I don't know.

591
00:26:16,975 --> 00:26:19,945
I think each committee's going to have to look and decide what if they want to.

592
00:26:19,978 --> 00:26:22,948
Yeah, well, it it doesn't essentially

593
00:26:22,981 --> 00:26:25,951
 double your cost, but you can take,

594
00:26:25,984 --> 00:26:28,954
 you can take your original cost for any particular timed event.

595
00:26:28,987 --> 00:26:31,957
And multiply that time 60%.

596
00:26:31,990 --> 00:26:33,959
And that's what it's going to cost you.

597
00:26:34,993 --> 00:26:35,961
To do that.

598
00:26:35,994 --> 00:26:39,965
And that's, you know, I know, I know it doesn't matter.

599
00:26:39,998 --> 00:26:41,967
It needs to be great for the cowboys, but that is.

600
00:26:42,968 --> 00:26:45,937
That's a tough pill for some of these events.

601
00:26:45,971 --> 00:26:48,940
And we, that's why we all need to talk

602
00:26:48,974 --> 00:26:50,942
 and also compromise happens.

603
00:26:50,976 --> 00:26:53,945
We, we, we talk about it all the time, Tommy Joe.

604
00:26:53,979 --> 00:26:56,948
If we don't ultimately look out for the greatest good of the sport.

605
00:26:56,982 --> 00:26:58,950
Then we all lose.

606
00:26:58,984 --> 00:27:00,952
But the sport is ran by the Cowboys.

607
00:27:00,986 --> 00:27:03,955
The PRCA is a Cowboy Association, and

608
00:27:03,989 --> 00:27:07,959
 the control, the ultimate control is by the Cowboys, fair enough.

609
00:27:07,993 --> 00:27:08,960
That's what we all agree.

610
00:27:08,994 --> 00:27:11,963
So that means that ultimately things fall.

611
00:27:11,997 --> 00:27:14,966
On the cowboy side, more than it does.

612
00:27:15,967 --> 00:27:16,935
The other people.

613
00:27:16,968 --> 00:27:19,938
And that's fine because that's the governing body of

614
00:27:19,971 --> 00:27:21,940
 the sport and probably should be.

615
00:27:21,973 --> 00:27:24,943
But the reality is, that there's

616
00:27:24,976 --> 00:27:27,946
 way more influence on what the cowboys want than what's

617
00:27:28,980 --> 00:27:31,983
 good for the committees or the fans or that, there's

618
00:27:31,983 --> 00:27:33,952
 more influence for what is good for the cowboys.

619
00:27:34,986 --> 00:27:37,989
And that's what makes it even more difficult, is you've got 9 disciplines,

620
00:27:37,989 --> 00:27:40,959
 technically, all of them with different needs and wants that

621
00:27:40,992 --> 00:27:43,962
 makes their particular part of rodeo great.

622
00:27:43,995 --> 00:27:46,965
And that's the balancing act that Knowles has to deal with and

623
00:27:46,998 --> 00:27:49,968
 properties and everything on a daily basis.

624
00:27:50,969 --> 00:27:51,936
I'm not saying that it's easy.

625
00:27:51,970 --> 00:27:52,937
Right.

626
00:27:52,937 --> 00:27:54,939
But even in every event, you have such diversity

627
00:27:54,973 --> 00:27:57,942
 in what people are seeking, whether they're a circuit

628
00:27:58,977 --> 00:28:01,946
 contestant or a top 15 person or whatever it is.

629
00:28:01,980 --> 00:28:04,949
Um, on the hardcore contestant type stuff.

630
00:28:04,983 --> 00:28:07,952
Okay, here we are, we just stepped

631
00:28:07,986 --> 00:28:10,955
 into September, and if all goes

632
00:28:10,989 --> 00:28:13,958
 according to plan, um, there will be, uh,

633
00:28:13,992 --> 00:28:17,962
 some of the New Mexico, uh, ports are going to open to

634
00:28:17,996 --> 00:28:20,965
 M branded cattle, which, which I have just

635
00:28:20,999 --> 00:28:23,968
 kind of written about, you know, the

636
00:28:23,968 --> 00:28:27,939
 subject, and looking at it from, from all, all

637
00:28:28,973 --> 00:28:31,943
 viewpoints, I think, you know, a lot of the cowboys

638
00:28:31,976 --> 00:28:35,947
 historically prefer the embryans, but, but in fairness, the native

639
00:28:35,980 --> 00:28:39,951
Have saved the day and also, in fairness,

640
00:28:39,984 --> 00:28:42,954
 the cattle they're about to come across, the horned cattle, from

641
00:28:43,988 --> 00:28:46,958
 Mexico will, in a lot of people's words, be a

642
00:28:46,991 --> 00:28:49,961
 drop in the bucket, you know, to the to the supply and demand,

643
00:28:49,994 --> 00:28:52,964
 to the need, um, to the demand for for cattle.

644
00:28:52,997 --> 00:28:55,967
So the PRCA while the border's been closed.

645
00:28:55,967 --> 00:28:59,938
Knowles, tell us a little bit about that as far as, um,

646
00:28:59,971 --> 00:29:02,941
 there was, how the rules have at

647
00:29:02,974 --> 00:29:05,944
 least temporarily changed to, to allow for the use of,

648
00:29:05,977 --> 00:29:07,946
 of native cattle.

649
00:29:07,979 --> 00:29:10,949
And in the words of Tyler Wagisbach saying to me the other day, you

650
00:29:10,982 --> 00:29:13,952
 know, thank you to the producers of native cattle, especially

651
00:29:13,985 --> 00:29:16,955
 people who manage them well and know how to break them incorrectly because

652
00:29:16,988 --> 00:29:19,958
 they have kept us in a job, you know, while the embrands were not here.

653
00:29:20,992 --> 00:29:23,962
And I agree, you know, in our rule, the

654
00:29:23,995 --> 00:29:28,967
 steer wrestling is the only rule that says you have to use Mexican bred cattle.

655
00:29:28,967 --> 00:29:31,936
The team are open just as Mexican descent, which,

656
00:29:31,970 --> 00:29:33,938
 I mean, long orange or Mexican descent.

657
00:29:33,972 --> 00:29:36,941
So, the, and Riley Duval has been wonderful with these

658
00:29:37,976 --> 00:29:40,945
 communities and stock contractors and had to, had to approve

659
00:29:40,979 --> 00:29:41,946
 natives.

660
00:29:41,980 --> 00:29:44,949
Um, and I don't know a lot about it, but they say natives are, are

661
00:29:44,983 --> 00:29:48,953
 hard to keep, honest or even or whatever the word is.

662
00:29:48,987 --> 00:29:49,954
You know, they're smart.

663
00:29:49,988 --> 00:29:52,957
And so Riley has had a lot of patience

664
00:29:52,991 --> 00:29:55,960
 and circled around and done a lot of sorting.

665
00:29:56,995 --> 00:29:58,963
To make these natives good.

666
00:29:58,997 --> 00:29:59,964
I think you're going to see.

667
00:29:59,998 --> 00:30:02,967
I don't know, but I think we might see a pen of natives at the NFR this year.

668
00:30:02,967 --> 00:30:04,936
Very fine.

669
00:30:04,969 --> 00:30:08,940
Bobby Joe Hill said that he, if

670
00:30:08,940 --> 00:30:11,943
 everything goes according to plan and they are crossed in time, that

671
00:30:11,976 --> 00:30:13,945
 that will be the case.

672
00:30:13,978 --> 00:30:15,947
Well, he was talking about the team roughing cattle.

673
00:30:15,980 --> 00:30:18,950
Um, but, but the thing, uh,

674
00:30:19,984 --> 00:30:22,954
 you know, one of the basics that came out of all my conversations

675
00:30:22,987 --> 00:30:25,957
 with the various people in the, you know, um,

676
00:30:25,990 --> 00:30:28,960
 Bulldog and team rapping cattle industry

677
00:30:28,993 --> 00:30:32,964
 is that, for one thing, you know, the natives are younger.

678
00:30:32,997 --> 00:30:35,967
And they haven't lived as hard of a life.

679
00:30:35,967 --> 00:30:38,937
And, and, you know, it, it, but people, there

680
00:30:38,970 --> 00:30:41,940
 are a lot of people raising native cattle that are

681
00:30:41,973 --> 00:30:42,941
 doing one hell of a job.

682
00:30:42,974 --> 00:30:44,943
We will all say that and say thank you to them.

683
00:30:44,976 --> 00:30:47,946
And I think the native cattle will just develop so fast.

684
00:30:47,979 --> 00:30:51,950
You know, the Mexican calorie just on tough, tough

685
00:30:51,983 --> 00:30:54,953
 times down there, and they don't develop, you know,

686
00:30:54,986 --> 00:30:56,955
 our, our calorie just grow faster.

687
00:30:56,988 --> 00:30:58,957
The, The conditions are better.

688
00:30:58,990 --> 00:31:01,960
So I think it makes them grow faster than we'd like.

689
00:31:01,993 --> 00:31:02,961
We'd rather a slower growth.

690
00:31:02,994 --> 00:31:07,966
You know, a later maturing animal, but we've got to use what we can use.

691
00:31:07,999 --> 00:31:10,969
I tell you at the NFR this year, if we do use native

692
00:31:10,969 --> 00:31:12,937
 cattle, we'll bring its 4th pin of cattle.

693
00:31:13,972 --> 00:31:17,942
to where you don't have to run anything uh, more than 3 times.

694
00:31:17,942 --> 00:31:20,945
Currently, we have to run one of those pins a 4th time.

695
00:31:20,979 --> 00:31:23,948
And they say that 4th run on the natives would really be rough.

696
00:31:24,983 --> 00:31:28,953
Well, the ones that learn tricks, it's going to get worse, right?

697
00:31:28,987 --> 00:31:30,955
Yeah, but they all learn tricks.

698
00:31:30,989 --> 00:31:31,956
Oh my.

699
00:31:31,990 --> 00:31:34,959
I can't believe that you guys can have a 30 minute conversation about cows.

700
00:31:35,994 --> 00:31:37,962
Holy moly.

701
00:31:37,962 --> 00:31:39,964
Well, but it but the so the

702
00:31:39,998 --> 00:31:42,967
 only thing I have to add, because you know, this stuff is beyond my

703
00:31:43,968 --> 00:31:46,938
 expertise, but it sounds like

704
00:31:46,971 --> 00:31:49,941
 if I'm buying something to rent, the

705
00:31:49,974 --> 00:31:52,944
 M branded cattle, you can rent them, they're much more competitive

706
00:31:52,977 --> 00:31:56,948
 for much longer time because they basically don't,

707
00:31:56,981 --> 00:31:58,950
 they've been eating on 6 blades of grass their whole life.

708
00:31:59,984 --> 00:32:02,954
They can live on rocks and they don't grow.

709
00:32:02,954 --> 00:32:04,956
So it's like buying a DeWalt drill compared to

710
00:32:04,989 --> 00:32:05,957
 some cheap one.

711
00:32:05,990 --> 00:32:07,959
Um, they just last longer.

712
00:32:08,993 --> 00:32:10,962
So it seems like they're a better investment.

713
00:32:10,962 --> 00:32:12,964
You got to, don't you have to alternate native cattle more just

714
00:32:12,997 --> 00:32:14,966
 because they get too big too quick?

715
00:32:14,999 --> 00:32:15,967
I think so.

716
00:32:15,967 --> 00:32:16,934
I think so.

717
00:32:16,934 --> 00:32:18,936
And you, you gotta, you can't just take them week after week.

718
00:32:18,970 --> 00:32:19,938
I think they got to have some rest.

719
00:32:19,971 --> 00:32:20,939
I see.

720
00:32:20,972 --> 00:32:22,941
Just don't know if they're tough enough internally.

721
00:32:23,975 --> 00:32:26,944
Well, while we're talking about the NFR.

722
00:32:26,944 --> 00:32:29,948
It was probably a year ago whenever you jumped on with us last time.

723
00:32:29,981 --> 00:32:31,950
We had a conversation.

724
00:32:31,983 --> 00:32:34,952
Well, it's probably you've been on with us several times, once a

725
00:32:34,986 --> 00:32:36,954
 year usually, and we love when you come on.

726
00:32:37,989 --> 00:32:40,959
But the one of the years, a couple years ago was

727
00:32:40,992 --> 00:32:43,961
 when you were implementing instant replay at the NFL.

728
00:32:43,995 --> 00:32:46,964
But you were implementing it only.

729
00:32:46,998 --> 00:32:48,967
For like 3 calls.

730
00:32:48,967 --> 00:32:49,934
I'm making that up.

731
00:32:49,968 --> 00:32:53,938
But it wasn't very much, which I think was a brilliant decision to make sure you got it right.

732
00:32:54,972 --> 00:32:56,941
Then you expanded it last year.

733
00:32:56,974 --> 00:33:00,945
With a complete catastrophe during it.

734
00:33:01,980 --> 00:33:02,947
Again, I'm not

735
00:33:02,947 --> 00:33:04,949
I'm just saying from a perception standpoint, right?

736
00:33:04,982 --> 00:33:09,954
Um, the Stetson Wright deal seemed like a blown deal.

737
00:33:09,988 --> 00:33:11,956
We don't I don't even want to get into that.

738
00:33:11,990 --> 00:33:12,957
I'm over that.

739
00:33:12,990 --> 00:33:14,959
You know, and I think Stetson, everybody's over it.

740
00:33:14,992 --> 00:33:17,962
But so my question to you is instant replay NFR

741
00:33:18,997 --> 00:33:22,000
 2026, what can you tell us about the

742
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:22,967
 judging and instant replay?

743
00:33:23,968 --> 00:33:26,971
We didn't change anything from last year on the rules.

744
00:33:26,971 --> 00:33:29,941
Um, you know, we're, we're, we're, Replaying

745
00:33:30,975 --> 00:33:33,978
 time, slaps, um, you know, disqualifications

746
00:33:33,978 --> 00:33:35,947
 of any kind, markouts.

747
00:33:35,980 --> 00:33:38,950
So we're consistent this year with what we did last

748
00:33:38,983 --> 00:33:39,951
 year, barrier calls.

749
00:33:40,985 --> 00:33:43,955
Um, And we'll have 2 people in the replay

750
00:33:43,988 --> 00:33:46,958
 booth together to confirm, you know, to

751
00:33:46,991 --> 00:33:48,960
 work together to, to do it.

752
00:33:48,993 --> 00:33:51,963
And, and maybe even, we're considering just to

753
00:33:51,996 --> 00:33:54,966
 tick more time to make your decision, you know, not, not

754
00:33:55,967 --> 00:33:58,970
 5 minutes by no means, but a few more seconds if we need, you know, we can slow down.

755
00:33:58,970 --> 00:33:59,937
Yeah, come on.

756
00:33:59,971 --> 00:34:02,940
I heard that they only had X amount of seconds and

757
00:34:02,974 --> 00:34:04,942
 that's complete baloney.

758
00:34:04,976 --> 00:34:06,944
If you're gonna, this is, this is it.

759
00:34:06,978 --> 00:34:08,946
This is the Super Bowl.

760
00:34:08,980 --> 00:34:09,947
I know there's people out there

761
00:34:09,981 --> 00:34:10,948
dont like me calling it that.

762
00:34:10,982 --> 00:34:11,949
But this is the Super Bowl.

763
00:34:11,983 --> 00:34:14,952
Yeah, if you're gonna do it, get it right.

764
00:34:14,986 --> 00:34:16,954
And I'm 100% in your favor on that.

765
00:34:16,988 --> 00:34:18,956
Give them time because here's the other thing.

766
00:34:18,990 --> 00:34:21,959
Remember initially, you and I talked.

767
00:34:21,993 --> 00:34:24,962
We all talked about the fact that you had to convince the field judges.

768
00:34:24,996 --> 00:34:28,966
So bear with me, listeners, to go ahead and throw the flag.

769
00:34:28,966 --> 00:34:30,935
So let's talk about a markout.

770
00:34:30,968 --> 00:34:33,938
In theory, you want to convince

771
00:34:34,972 --> 00:34:37,942
 those field judges, because this is what the NFL had to convince their

772
00:34:37,975 --> 00:34:41,946
 field officials to go ahead and throw

773
00:34:41,979 --> 00:34:44,982
 a flag because they have to be able to rely rely

774
00:34:44,982 --> 00:34:47,952
 on the replay officials and their angles to

775
00:34:48,986 --> 00:34:50,955
 get it right if they saw it wrong.

776
00:34:50,988 --> 00:34:52,957
And that's a confidence thing, right?

777
00:34:52,990 --> 00:34:55,960
Who wants to be a judge out there and throw a flag and then the

778
00:34:55,993 --> 00:34:58,963
 next day, 17000000 people are telling you you're

779
00:34:58,996 --> 00:35:01,966
 blind, and you can't run, and you're too fat,

780
00:35:01,999 --> 00:35:04,969
 and all of this stuff when, isn't it

781
00:35:04,969 --> 00:35:07,939
 true, Steve, you want them to, in theory, if they think they saw it,

782
00:35:08,973 --> 00:35:11,943
 they throw the flag and they've got to rely on those replay

783
00:35:11,976 --> 00:35:14,946
 officials to verify that, and

784
00:35:14,979 --> 00:35:15,947
 they need to have enough time to do it.

785
00:35:15,980 --> 00:35:16,948
They do fair?

786
00:35:17,982 --> 00:35:18,950
Agreed.

787
00:35:18,950 --> 00:35:20,952
And that was a that was a learning curve for us on the timing last year.

788
00:35:20,985 --> 00:35:23,955
You know, I think we, we pressed him a little too, too fast.

789
00:35:23,988 --> 00:35:26,958
Um, But you're, you're right.

790
00:35:26,991 --> 00:35:27,959
It's a confidence thing.

791
00:35:27,992 --> 00:35:29,961
You got to have confidence in it and it's a blown, you know.

792
00:35:29,994 --> 00:35:32,964
I know you don't want to talk about the Stetson Wright deal

793
00:35:32,997 --> 00:35:35,967
 as a confidence guy as a judge, that could just bust you

794
00:35:35,967 --> 00:35:36,934
 wide open, you know.

795
00:35:37,969 --> 00:35:38,936
Yeah.

796
00:35:38,970 --> 00:35:40,938
But we don't want that to happen.

797
00:35:40,972 --> 00:35:41,939
We wanna get it right.

798
00:35:41,973 --> 00:35:44,942
Well, and there's no doubt that he, he threw,

799
00:35:44,976 --> 00:35:47,945
 he thought he saw what he saw, whether he was in the position on again.

800
00:35:48,980 --> 00:35:51,949
This is this is a very old conversation.

801
00:35:51,949 --> 00:35:53,951
But my point is, what everybody else

802
00:35:53,985 --> 00:35:57,955
 saw in the replay booth or what everybody else noticed after the fact.

803
00:35:58,990 --> 00:36:01,993
Should have been noticed in the replay booth, enough said.

804
00:36:01,993 --> 00:36:02,960
100%.

805
00:36:04,996 --> 00:36:08,966
But we are, we're, we're staying consistent with our calls.

806
00:36:08,966 --> 00:36:11,936
You know, just maybe a little more time to review

807
00:36:11,969 --> 00:36:12,937
 is what we're looking at.

808
00:36:13,971 --> 00:36:15,940
Other than that, we'll have 2 guys in there together.

809
00:36:16,974 --> 00:36:19,977
Now, when we're talking about judges, so we're on judges.

810
00:36:19,977 --> 00:36:21,946
I think a birdie told me.

811
00:36:22,980 --> 00:36:26,951
You guys are finally giving those guys a raise.

812
00:36:26,984 --> 00:36:27,952
Is that true?

813
00:36:27,952 --> 00:36:30,955
We did started yesterday, actually September 1st.

814
00:36:30,988 --> 00:36:33,958
Um, Tom budgeted a little, uh, not

815
00:36:33,991 --> 00:36:36,961
 a large, not a large raise, you know, not life changing,

816
00:36:37,995 --> 00:36:38,963
 but it's a start.

817
00:36:38,996 --> 00:36:40,965
It is a start to all the reserves.

818
00:36:40,998 --> 00:36:43,968
And it actually goes on their expense site.

819
00:36:44,969 --> 00:36:48,940
On their per diem side and their food stipe inside.

820
00:36:48,973 --> 00:36:51,943
Well, that's because coffee costs 10 bucks now.

821
00:36:51,976 --> 00:36:54,946
So you guys finally caught up to what they're spending on site.

822
00:36:54,979 --> 00:36:56,948
Well I don't know.

823
00:36:56,981 --> 00:36:58,950
They're going to have to live within their means.

824
00:36:58,983 --> 00:36:59,951
We didn't give them enough.

825
00:37:00,985 --> 00:37:03,955
So you're able to eat one sandwich and

826
00:37:03,988 --> 00:37:06,958
 ramen noodles and 3 powdered donuts and

827
00:37:06,991 --> 00:37:09,961
 you'll be in the PRCA per diem if they sleep in their car.

828
00:37:10,995 --> 00:37:13,965
No, we're...

829
00:37:13,998 --> 00:37:15,967
That's what I love about Knowles right there.

830
00:37:15,967 --> 00:37:16,934
That's what I love them all.

831
00:37:16,968 --> 00:37:19,937
You know, it's a several $100,000 investment on the PRC.

832
00:37:20,972 --> 00:37:22,940
When you compound that.

833
00:37:22,974 --> 00:37:24,942
So let's take that into consideration.

834
00:37:24,976 --> 00:37:27,945
When you give it to one, you give it to all, it's a big impact.

835
00:37:28,980 --> 00:37:30,948
But that's what we need.

836
00:37:30,982 --> 00:37:32,950
We have to treat these.

837
00:37:32,950 --> 00:37:34,952
I always liken rodeo judges to teachers.

838
00:37:34,986 --> 00:37:37,955
I'm like, well, I don't believe that there should be any tenure because it's

839
00:37:38,990 --> 00:37:41,993
 such an important position and people shouldn't be grandfathered in, right?

840
00:37:41,993 --> 00:37:44,962
You're either, you either really care you don't, but to attract and

841
00:37:45,997 --> 00:37:48,966
 and hold on to the people who are, you

842
00:37:48,966 --> 00:37:50,935
 know, passionate about it and very qualified.

843
00:37:51,969 --> 00:37:53,938
They need to be paid.

844
00:37:53,971 --> 00:37:56,941
They got to, you know, you're, you're wanting some young guys

845
00:37:56,974 --> 00:37:59,944
 fresh out of their rodeo career to, to consider this and you

846
00:38:00,978 --> 00:38:03,948
 got to pay them enough to raise a family to have a home.

847
00:38:03,948 --> 00:38:06,951
You know, they've lived on their in their car for the 1st 10 years of their career.

848
00:38:06,984 --> 00:38:09,954
You need to pay them enough to buy a house and enjoy life.

849
00:38:10,988 --> 00:38:13,958
I mean, you got to pay that bareback rider good

850
00:38:13,991 --> 00:38:15,960
 so he can flag the caff open.

851
00:38:15,993 --> 00:38:16,961
Exactly.

852
00:38:16,994 --> 00:38:17,962
That's right.

853
00:38:17,995 --> 00:38:18,963
Okay.

854
00:38:18,996 --> 00:38:21,966
All right, deeper question, and then I'll

855
00:38:21,999 --> 00:38:23,968
 kick it back over to Kendra.

856
00:38:23,968 --> 00:38:27,938
And I'm going to, you might have to think about this, but I think this would be really interesting to ask you.

857
00:38:27,972 --> 00:38:31,942
What's the hardest decision you can remember making?

858
00:38:32,977 --> 00:38:35,980
For the PRCA that people

859
00:38:35,980 --> 00:38:38,949
 outside of it would never realize that had to be made.

860
00:38:38,983 --> 00:38:40,951
The hardest decision.

861
00:38:41,986 --> 00:38:44,955
It's a personal decision when I came here.

862
00:38:44,955 --> 00:38:46,957
I guess ours decision was for me to decide to come.

863
00:38:46,991 --> 00:38:47,958
I'm glad you did

864
00:38:48,993 --> 00:38:51,962
And some days my horror decisions, whether I want to go to work or not.

865
00:38:52,997 --> 00:38:54,965
Well, y'all have to.

866
00:38:54,999 --> 00:38:57,968
I've had some mornings where I'm thinking, oh, man, I don't know about this,

867
00:38:57,968 --> 00:39:00,938
 but, you know, we've had some decision.

868
00:39:00,971 --> 00:39:03,941
I've had some some lifetime life

869
00:39:03,974 --> 00:39:06,944
 changing decisions I've had to make with some contestants on

870
00:39:06,977 --> 00:39:09,947
 rodeo account, on rules, on rulings

871
00:39:09,980 --> 00:39:11,949
 that cost them from going to the NFL.

872
00:39:12,983 --> 00:39:15,953
You know, and you don't know at the time it may be

873
00:39:15,986 --> 00:39:16,987
 their only chance in a lifetime.

874
00:39:16,987 --> 00:39:17,955
To go.

875
00:39:17,988 --> 00:39:20,958
I, there's 2 or 3 guys that, you know, it, it really

876
00:39:20,991 --> 00:39:23,961
 was close to home to rule against him on some grievances

877
00:39:24,995 --> 00:39:26,964
 that cost him from going to the NFL.

878
00:39:26,997 --> 00:39:28,966
I can understand.

879
00:39:28,966 --> 00:39:30,968
And that's where the, that's where people forget that you have.

880
00:39:30,968 --> 00:39:33,938
You have feel, you know, no, I don't want to say

881
00:39:33,971 --> 00:39:36,941
 that because that makes you sound gay, but it's personal too.

882
00:39:36,974 --> 00:39:39,944
Like you understand the lifestyle part of it.

883
00:39:39,977 --> 00:39:41,946
I wanted to say you have feelings too, but I don't know if that's true.

884
00:39:42,980 --> 00:39:45,950
Well, and I do sometimes I try not to let

885
00:39:45,983 --> 00:39:48,953
 my emotions get involved, but sometimes I'm human, you know.

886
00:39:48,986 --> 00:39:49,954
I do.

887
00:39:49,954 --> 00:39:50,955
I'm a fan too at the end of the day.

888
00:39:51,989 --> 00:39:52,957
I a rodeo fan.

889
00:39:52,990 --> 00:39:55,960
What misconceptions frustrate you?

890
00:39:55,993 --> 00:39:59,964
On, and so what misconceptions

891
00:39:59,997 --> 00:40:02,967
 in the animal welfare game frustrate you?

892
00:40:02,967 --> 00:40:06,937
And then what, what are, what's the industry doing?

893
00:40:06,971 --> 00:40:09,940
The leaders, you guys over there in the springs doing currently

894
00:40:09,974 --> 00:40:10,941
 to combat that.

895
00:40:10,975 --> 00:40:14,945
You know, you know all the misconceptions

896
00:40:14,979 --> 00:40:17,948
 from the animal world, animal rights world is, you

897
00:40:17,982 --> 00:40:19,950
 know, we tore in and we teach them to do this.

898
00:40:20,985 --> 00:40:22,953
We put flight straps on their genitals.

899
00:40:22,987 --> 00:40:24,955
Um, what do we, we spend?

900
00:40:24,955 --> 00:40:27,958
We spend a lot of time, money, and effort.

901
00:40:27,992 --> 00:40:30,961
You know, we pay, we have 2 lobbyists that we pay.

902
00:40:30,995 --> 00:40:33,964
Um, and sometimes I have a

903
00:40:33,998 --> 00:40:36,967
 different feeling about lobbyists, you know, they're, they're politicians,

904
00:40:36,967 --> 00:40:37,935
 but, but we've.

905
00:40:37,968 --> 00:40:38,936
Necessary evil.

906
00:40:38,969 --> 00:40:39,937
necessary evil.

907
00:40:39,970 --> 00:40:41,939
But they're necessary, yes.

908
00:40:42,973 --> 00:40:44,942
And so we have 2 lobbyists we pay.

909
00:40:44,975 --> 00:40:47,945
Um, you know, Scott Norncamp, he monitors all,

910
00:40:47,978 --> 00:40:50,948
 all kinds of, uh, news and just

911
00:40:50,981 --> 00:40:51,949
 tries to stay ahead of it.

912
00:40:51,982 --> 00:40:54,952
Dr. Corey, our veterinarian, you know, he

913
00:40:54,985 --> 00:40:57,955
 stays on top of that thing, but we spend a lot of money trying

914
00:40:58,989 --> 00:41:01,959
 to stay on top of that and it's, it's an uphill battle.

915
00:41:01,992 --> 00:41:04,995
I don't know sometimes if we're doing any good, but we stay on all of that.

916
00:41:04,995 --> 00:41:06,964
You're paying the lobbyist to tell the truth.

917
00:41:06,997 --> 00:41:07,965
Get the truth out there, right?

918
00:41:08,999 --> 00:41:12,970
And you know, we we send people to some of these hearings.

919
00:41:12,970 --> 00:41:15,940
We spent a lot of time in Orange County, California or

920
00:41:15,973 --> 00:41:19,944
 no LA, the LA City band, what they were trying to ban rodeo.

921
00:41:19,977 --> 00:41:22,947
You know, we spend a lot of hours over there and time and money.

922
00:41:22,980 --> 00:41:26,951
And, you know, fortunately right now it's kind of at a standstill.

923
00:41:26,984 --> 00:41:29,954
They dropped it, but it'll, it'll flare back up.

924
00:41:29,987 --> 00:41:32,957
Well, you, you should have rein our roster on your payroll

925
00:41:32,990 --> 00:41:35,960
 because nobody's worked harder in the Western states.

926
00:41:35,993 --> 00:41:38,963
On that front, then Reno and

927
00:41:38,996 --> 00:41:39,964
 his lineage.

928
00:41:39,997 --> 00:41:41,966
So he should get a paycheck 2nd thing.

929
00:41:41,999 --> 00:41:43,968
Um, this is a shout out.

930
00:41:43,968 --> 00:41:44,935
You know, you talked about Mr. Dorn camp.

931
00:41:45,970 --> 00:41:49,940
I want to tell you he's doing a good job and I'm going to share with everybody something that I thought was fantastic.

932
00:41:49,974 --> 00:41:52,943
So, They had some trouble

933
00:41:52,977 --> 00:41:55,946
 in Salinas with a Hispanic rodeo.

934
00:41:55,980 --> 00:41:58,949
This is not, has nothing to do with the PRCA,

935
00:41:58,983 --> 00:42:01,952
 but it does indirectly because it, it reflects

936
00:42:01,986 --> 00:42:03,954
 on the overall culture of the sport.

937
00:42:03,988 --> 00:42:07,958
Mr. Dornkamp sent me a note and said, um,

938
00:42:07,992 --> 00:42:08,959
 do me a favor.

939
00:42:08,993 --> 00:42:11,962
There's a Mexican rodeo coming to Salt Lake City.

940
00:42:11,996 --> 00:42:15,966
Will you help pay, you know, let's pay attention to this.

941
00:42:15,966 --> 00:42:17,935
And that's fantastic.

942
00:42:18,969 --> 00:42:22,940
That's technically that's out of the PRCA's

943
00:42:22,940 --> 00:42:26,944
 jurisdiction, but the fact that he reached out to me, had done his research.

944
00:42:26,977 --> 00:42:29,947
I then immediately acted, right?

945
00:42:29,980 --> 00:42:32,950
To put warnings out to say, make sure that these

946
00:42:33,984 --> 00:42:36,954
 guys are doing things the way we do it north

947
00:42:36,987 --> 00:42:38,956
 of the border, not south of the border.

948
00:42:38,989 --> 00:42:42,960
And, um, much

949
00:42:42,993 --> 00:42:43,961
 respect for their culture.

950
00:42:43,994 --> 00:42:45,963
We don't do it that way up here.

951
00:42:45,996 --> 00:42:46,964
We don't do it.

952
00:42:46,964 --> 00:42:48,966
We can't, we can't do it that way up here.

953
00:42:48,999 --> 00:42:50,968
And so hats off to Mr. Dorncamp.

954
00:42:51,969 --> 00:42:52,937
He's doing a good job, Steve.

955
00:42:52,970 --> 00:42:56,941
Well, the general public doesn't always differentiate

956
00:42:56,941 --> 00:42:59,944
 between a PRCA rodeo and a non-sanctioned rodeo for one thing.

957
00:42:59,977 --> 00:43:02,947
So, and to your point about Reno

958
00:43:02,980 --> 00:43:04,949
 Rosser, he is his father's son.

959
00:43:05,983 --> 00:43:08,953
Cotton Rosser was, was on the forefront before there

960
00:43:08,986 --> 00:43:09,954
 was a forefront.

961
00:43:09,987 --> 00:43:12,957
He, he went out of his road all the time to

962
00:43:12,990 --> 00:43:15,960
 take people behind the, Scenes behind the

963
00:43:16,994 --> 00:43:19,964
 chutes and show them how fat and sassy those fucking horses were

964
00:43:19,997 --> 00:43:21,966
 and and really talk to them.

965
00:43:21,966 --> 00:43:23,968
And, and you know, cotton would be like, you know, what's scary

966
00:43:23,968 --> 00:43:27,938
 is so many kids in America today think eggs come from the grocery store.

967
00:43:27,972 --> 00:43:28,939
you know, we have to show them.

968
00:43:28,973 --> 00:43:31,942
What, what it, what's all about, you know, to be a

969
00:43:31,976 --> 00:43:33,944
 cowboy and and what it's really like.

970
00:43:33,978 --> 00:43:36,947
And, and also on the point of people

971
00:43:36,981 --> 00:43:39,950
 not necessarily differentiating between

972
00:43:39,984 --> 00:43:42,953
 a professional rodeo and non, The

973
00:43:42,987 --> 00:43:44,955
 charros helped save the day in LA.

974
00:43:44,989 --> 00:43:47,958
When we went to battle and we went to court, the

975
00:43:47,992 --> 00:43:50,961
 Charos showed up for professional rodeo, and they

976
00:43:50,995 --> 00:43:54,965
 helped save the day on cultural standing,

977
00:43:54,999 --> 00:43:56,967
 and and we owe them a lot.

978
00:43:56,967 --> 00:43:59,937
So if we could work together, you know, it

979
00:44:00,971 --> 00:44:02,940
 would be to everyone's betterment, you know.

980
00:44:02,973 --> 00:44:05,943
The sports, it'd be best for the sport.

981
00:44:05,976 --> 00:44:09,947
You know, at Salinas, the bull riding accident they had there.

982
00:44:09,980 --> 00:44:10,948
You know, it was right in front of the chutes.

983
00:44:10,981 --> 00:44:13,951
The sign was in the background, the Salinas rodeo,

984
00:44:13,984 --> 00:44:16,954
 you know, so, so you could see where people could confuse

985
00:44:16,987 --> 00:44:18,956
 it with being the Salinas rodeo.

986
00:44:19,990 --> 00:44:22,993
Yeah, um, so this one's,

987
00:44:22,993 --> 00:44:25,963
 yeah, I like, I wrote this question, but I don't know if I

988
00:44:25,996 --> 00:44:27,965
 want to ask it, but I'm going to go ahead and ask it.

989
00:44:27,998 --> 00:44:30,968
So if you were commissioner for a day.

990
00:44:31,969 --> 00:44:34,972
Without politics or any limitations,

991
00:44:34,972 --> 00:44:35,939
 you're a dictator.

992
00:44:36,974 --> 00:44:38,942
What would be your 1st change?

993
00:44:44,982 --> 00:44:46,984
Uh, you know, I'll give you a pass on that one.

994
00:44:46,984 --> 00:44:48,952
But I did want to ask it.

995
00:44:48,986 --> 00:44:51,955
Just so you crinkled up your drawers a little bit on that one.

996
00:44:51,989 --> 00:44:52,956
Yeah, I don't know.

997
00:44:52,990 --> 00:44:53,957
I can't.

998
00:44:53,991 --> 00:44:54,958
That's it.

999
00:44:54,992 --> 00:44:58,962
Uh, dangerous cave to get into.

1000
00:44:59,997 --> 00:45:02,966
Well, this one I think is a cool, a cool question.

1001
00:45:02,966 --> 00:45:05,936
Um, and and Kendra, I would ask

1002
00:45:06,970 --> 00:45:08,939
 it to you too, because I think this will be interesting.

1003
00:45:08,972 --> 00:45:11,942
Maybe all 3 of us respond to this question because I think it's a cool one.

1004
00:45:11,975 --> 00:45:14,945
What moment in rodeo in your rodeo history,

1005
00:45:14,978 --> 00:45:16,947
 all 3 of us, and we'll, and we'll start with.

1006
00:45:16,980 --> 00:45:20,951
With probably Kendra, because she's probably the quickest respondative.

1007
00:45:21,985 --> 00:45:25,956
What moment in rodeo history gives you chill that you remember?

1008
00:45:25,989 --> 00:45:27,958
Do you remember?

1009
00:45:27,958 --> 00:45:28,959
Even, you know what I'm saying?

1010
00:45:29,993 --> 00:45:32,963
Um, something that happened that,

1011
00:45:32,996 --> 00:45:35,966
 You think you

1012
00:45:35,999 --> 00:45:38,969
 were there and it changed the trajectory of the sport.

1013
00:45:40,971 --> 00:45:43,941
Well, I don't know about changing

1014
00:45:43,974 --> 00:45:47,945
 the trajectory of the sport, but when you said a moment,

1015
00:45:48,979 --> 00:45:51,949
For me, like the 2 that

1016
00:45:51,982 --> 00:45:54,952
 instantly came to my mind were Lane Frost

1017
00:45:54,985 --> 00:45:57,955
 dying in front of my eyes and Jake Barnes

1018
00:45:57,988 --> 00:45:59,957
 losing his right thumb right in front of me.

1019
00:45:59,990 --> 00:46:02,960
And helping spot Alan

1020
00:46:03,994 --> 00:46:07,965
 Bach running in there to find it on the NFR arena floor and

1021
00:46:07,998 --> 00:46:08,966
 me pointing.

1022
00:46:08,999 --> 00:46:09,967
I mean, that was insane.

1023
00:46:10,968 --> 00:46:13,937
Those, those moments

1024
00:46:13,971 --> 00:46:16,940
 both give me chills and I pretty sure always will.

1025
00:46:17,975 --> 00:46:19,943
Yeah, what about you, Knowles?

1026
00:46:19,977 --> 00:46:20,944
Can you think about it?

1027
00:46:20,978 --> 00:46:22,946
No, and sorry to be on the same.

1028
00:46:22,980 --> 00:46:24,948
Pages, Kinder.

1029
00:46:25,983 --> 00:46:28,952
The 1st time I went to the NFR in Las Vegas is

1030
00:46:28,986 --> 00:46:30,954
 when Brent Thurman got stepped on and died.

1031
00:46:30,988 --> 00:46:33,957
And I still remember that, you know, vivid.

1032
00:46:34,992 --> 00:46:37,961
So, you know, I don't,

1033
00:46:37,995 --> 00:46:40,964
 it was, you know, it's very sad today.

1034
00:46:40,964 --> 00:46:42,966
I knew Brent, in on another part,

1035
00:46:42,966 --> 00:46:46,937
 you know, the Stetson Wright, they, you know, when I see him try.

1036
00:46:46,970 --> 00:46:49,940
You know, it just gets me excited in goosebumps

1037
00:46:50,974 --> 00:46:52,943
 today too, you know, the guy never quits.

1038
00:46:53,977 --> 00:46:56,947
Yeah, you can I can remember.

1039
00:46:56,980 --> 00:46:59,983
You know, Stetson reminds me.

1040
00:46:59,983 --> 00:47:02,953
Of course, now this is on the rough stock end, of course,

1041
00:47:02,986 --> 00:47:04,955
 because I'm not necessarily a time demand guy.

1042
00:47:04,988 --> 00:47:07,958
But when Ty Murray was about to

1043
00:47:07,991 --> 00:47:10,961
 ride, Everybody watched.

1044
00:47:10,994 --> 00:47:11,962
Right?

1045
00:47:12,996 --> 00:47:16,967
including me, who's seen 17000000000 rodeos.

1046
00:47:16,967 --> 00:47:19,937
When Ty wrote book, well, everything Ty did,

1047
00:47:19,970 --> 00:47:22,940
 you watched because it was never, never

1048
00:47:22,973 --> 00:47:25,943
 not, never not 100%, which is probably

1049
00:47:25,976 --> 00:47:28,946
 not the right English, but it was always 100%,

1050
00:47:28,979 --> 00:47:31,949
 and, um, same thing with Stetson.

1051
00:47:31,982 --> 00:47:32,950
Right?

1052
00:47:32,983 --> 00:47:35,953
It's just, it's, it gives me chills.

1053
00:47:36,987 --> 00:47:39,957
Now the flip side of that, I'll say my dark

1054
00:47:39,990 --> 00:47:43,961
 side of chills, and I was there with Jerome Davis, right?

1055
00:47:43,994 --> 00:47:46,964
Um, and right on the dirt floor.

1056
00:47:47,998 --> 00:47:50,968
And my job was always to

1057
00:47:50,968 --> 00:47:51,935
 go back to Tandy, right?

1058
00:47:51,969 --> 00:47:55,939
So that we could see what kind of report we could give to everybody.

1059
00:47:55,973 --> 00:47:58,942
And I looked at Tandy and he just did this.

1060
00:47:58,976 --> 00:48:00,978
He just, no comment, right?

1061
00:48:00,978 --> 00:48:01,945
And I remember my heart.

1062
00:48:02,980 --> 00:48:03,947
Right?

1063
00:48:03,981 --> 00:48:06,950
Because, you know, we all see these people hit the ground and not move

1064
00:48:06,984 --> 00:48:10,954
 and all of us immediately, right?

1065
00:48:10,988 --> 00:48:11,955
Or like, 0 no.

1066
00:48:11,989 --> 00:48:14,958
And when they move, like if you,

1067
00:48:14,992 --> 00:48:17,961
 you as a spectator, you think it's great when you hear

1068
00:48:17,995 --> 00:48:20,964
 that someone's moving, all of us in these screens do the same thing,

1069
00:48:21,999 --> 00:48:22,966
 we're like, praise God.

1070
00:48:22,966 --> 00:48:24,935
Praise God, you know.

1071
00:48:24,968 --> 00:48:26,937
So, I thought that was.

1072
00:48:26,970 --> 00:48:29,940
And when that happened, I too was working for the PVR and, and

1073
00:48:29,973 --> 00:48:32,943
 talking to Jerome right then and there and,

1074
00:48:32,976 --> 00:48:34,945
 He was.

1075
00:48:34,978 --> 00:48:37,948
I mean, he was scared to death, but he was,

1076
00:48:38,982 --> 00:48:41,952
 you know, I, I, like he believed

1077
00:48:41,985 --> 00:48:44,955
 he was, he was, you know, his, his positive

1078
00:48:44,988 --> 00:48:47,958
 mind was not saying die, you know, and,

1079
00:48:47,991 --> 00:48:50,961
 and he's like, I'm, I'm going

1080
00:48:50,994 --> 00:48:53,964
 to keep, you know, getting up out of bed every day.

1081
00:48:53,997 --> 00:48:56,967
But I don't know, Kendra, if I'll be still be

1082
00:48:56,967 --> 00:48:59,936
 this joyful and, you know, if, if you talk to me in 10 years

1083
00:48:59,970 --> 00:49:01,938
 and I, and I'm still on this chair.

1084
00:49:01,972 --> 00:49:03,940
I don't know if I'll be this good of a sport about it.

1085
00:49:03,974 --> 00:49:06,943
By golly, to his credit, he's

1086
00:49:06,977 --> 00:49:09,947
 done amazing things and keeps doing amazing things.

1087
00:49:09,980 --> 00:49:11,949
That's his sidekick his wife, right?

1088
00:49:11,982 --> 00:49:13,951
Those 2 are superheroes.

1089
00:49:14,985 --> 00:49:16,954
They are inspirations for everybody.

1090
00:49:16,987 --> 00:49:17,954
They're awesome.

1091
00:49:17,988 --> 00:49:19,956
I'll tell you on one more thing on Jerome.

1092
00:49:20,991 --> 00:49:23,960
I was judging some PBR bull ridings at the time and not

1093
00:49:23,994 --> 00:49:24,961
 long after that, we went to Charlotte.

1094
00:49:24,995 --> 00:49:27,965
Cody said you weren't a very good judge, by the way.

1095
00:49:28,999 --> 00:49:32,969
Tough heat him and push Drome out there in his wheelchair.

1096
00:49:32,969 --> 00:49:35,939
And it was the most emotional thing I've

1097
00:49:35,972 --> 00:49:36,940
 probably ever witnessed, you know.

1098
00:49:37,974 --> 00:49:40,944
Because for those who don't know, Jerome got hurt at Tufts bull riding.

1099
00:49:40,978 --> 00:49:43,947
And and that, I will never

1100
00:49:43,981 --> 00:49:46,950
 forget being at, at the finals that year,

1101
00:49:46,983 --> 00:49:49,953
 there was a, there was an event, you know,

1102
00:49:50,987 --> 00:49:53,957
 to raise money for Jerome, and tough auctioned

1103
00:49:53,990 --> 00:49:55,959
 off his, his gold buckle.

1104
00:49:55,992 --> 00:49:56,960
And, um,

1105
00:49:56,994 --> 00:49:59,963
And I remember him saying, all

1106
00:49:59,996 --> 00:50:02,966
 you sons of bitches with pocket paw, like, something about pocket

1107
00:50:03,000 --> 00:50:06,970
 palsy, like, get your hands out of your pockets, get your hands in the air, you know?

1108
00:50:06,970 --> 00:50:09,940
But, um, tough took that.

1109
00:50:09,973 --> 00:50:13,944
That deal hard and um, never

1110
00:50:13,977 --> 00:50:14,945
 let up on being Jerome's friend.

1111
00:50:14,978 --> 00:50:16,947
He was a great friend in Rome.

1112
00:50:16,980 --> 00:50:17,948
He was a great friend.

1113
00:50:17,981 --> 00:50:18,949
Yes.

1114
00:50:18,982 --> 00:50:21,952
All right, well, we went pretty good.

1115
00:50:21,952 --> 00:50:23,954
Let's, um, I'll do one more and then if, if, if

1116
00:50:23,987 --> 00:50:24,955
 Kendra has one more.

1117
00:50:24,988 --> 00:50:27,958
I think this one's kind of more of a, I'm interested

1118
00:50:28,992 --> 00:50:29,960
 in your input on this.

1119
00:50:30,994 --> 00:50:32,963
In our last podcast.

1120
00:50:32,996 --> 00:50:35,966
Um, when we were talking to Billy Ward.

1121
00:50:35,999 --> 00:50:38,969
You know, today's rodeo athlete

1122
00:50:38,969 --> 00:50:42,939
 is much more of a sports athlete, it seems like, right?

1123
00:50:42,973 --> 00:50:45,942
Um, where 50 years ago,

1124
00:50:45,976 --> 00:50:49,946
 these were more kids off of ranches, right?

1125
00:50:49,980 --> 00:50:52,949
That were developed in a lot of different ways.

1126
00:50:52,983 --> 00:50:55,952
Do you think that the evolution

1127
00:50:55,986 --> 00:50:59,956
 of rodeo, like where do you balance tradition?

1128
00:51:00,991 --> 00:51:02,959
And evolution.

1129
00:51:02,993 --> 00:51:06,963
Do you guys in the office, I'm sure this comes up all the time, right?

1130
00:51:06,997 --> 00:51:10,967
Well, this rodeo's done it this way for 50 years, well, we're changing the rule.

1131
00:51:10,967 --> 00:51:12,936
Where do you?

1132
00:51:12,969 --> 00:51:14,938
how can how do you make that decision?

1133
00:51:14,971 --> 00:51:16,940
How do all of us make that decision?

1134
00:51:16,973 --> 00:51:21,945
Right, of protecting what got us here.

1135
00:51:21,978 --> 00:51:24,948
But accepting evolution

1136
00:51:24,981 --> 00:51:25,949
 so we can grow.

1137
00:51:25,982 --> 00:51:27,951
I agree.

1138
00:51:27,984 --> 00:51:29,953
We fight that all the time.

1139
00:51:29,986 --> 00:51:32,956
You know, we we want to honor art history.

1140
00:51:32,956 --> 00:51:35,959
We always want to honor our history, but I don't think we can let it hold us back either.

1141
00:51:35,992 --> 00:51:37,961
There's always going to be evolution.

1142
00:51:37,994 --> 00:51:40,964
There's always going to be bigger and better contestants, bigger

1143
00:51:40,997 --> 00:51:43,967
 and better bulls and horses and whatever.

1144
00:51:43,967 --> 00:51:46,937
Um, I think we got to honor our history and

1145
00:51:46,970 --> 00:51:49,940
 keep looking forward and keep evolving, or if we

1146
00:51:50,974 --> 00:51:53,977
 keep doing the same thing we've always done, you know what the results are, Tommy, though.

1147
00:51:53,977 --> 00:51:55,946
And, you know, we'll be out of business.

1148
00:51:55,979 --> 00:51:59,950
So, I think we really have to forge ahead and just keep honoring our history.

1149
00:52:01,985 --> 00:52:04,955
Miss Santos, since you're the expert.

1150
00:52:04,988 --> 00:52:06,957
You run, you were on this.

1151
00:52:06,990 --> 00:52:10,961
When you talk about, um, the

1152
00:52:10,994 --> 00:52:13,964
 athletes that, that, you know, they used to call them cowboys

1153
00:52:13,997 --> 00:52:16,967
 and now they call them, Athletes, um,

1154
00:52:16,967 --> 00:52:19,936
 the one cautionary tale, uh,

1155
00:52:19,970 --> 00:52:22,939
The 1st person I thought of when you were talking

1156
00:52:22,973 --> 00:52:25,942
 about that, how today's athletes, and I thought, I, whatever

1157
00:52:25,976 --> 00:52:28,945
 reason, I thought of J.B. Mooney, and I, and, and

1158
00:52:28,979 --> 00:52:31,948
 I'm like, he's got a cigarette and one hand a beer in the other,

1159
00:52:32,983 --> 00:52:35,952
 and he's a gangster, but I don't know that you should follow his

1160
00:52:35,986 --> 00:52:38,955
 lead if you want to be the king of bull riding today.

1161
00:52:38,989 --> 00:52:41,958
But, um, he pulled it off, but that's because there's only

1162
00:52:41,992 --> 00:52:42,959
 one JB Mooney ever.

1163
00:52:43,994 --> 00:52:45,962
So there, there is that.

1164
00:52:45,962 --> 00:52:47,964
But, but I think, you know, when you're talking about the,

1165
00:52:48,999 --> 00:52:51,968
 the athletes today, it's just because it's so tough.

1166
00:52:51,968 --> 00:52:54,938
Like, Steve, you're talking about this sport evolving.

1167
00:52:54,938 --> 00:52:56,940
I mean, you know, it's like, oh, just, just

1168
00:52:56,973 --> 00:52:59,943
 go to the caff roping, look at the evolution of the, you

1169
00:53:00,977 --> 00:53:03,947
 know, Dean Oliver hands the torch to Roy

1170
00:53:03,980 --> 00:53:06,950
 Cooper, and, you know, along the way, there's Joe Beaver

1171
00:53:06,983 --> 00:53:09,953
 and Fred Whitfield and Cody Ole, and, you know, um,

1172
00:53:09,986 --> 00:53:12,956
 on down the line, and everything

1173
00:53:12,989 --> 00:53:13,957
 keeps evolving.

1174
00:53:13,990 --> 00:53:14,958
And that's healthy.

1175
00:53:15,992 --> 00:53:19,963
But that doesn't mean we have to turn our back on our history either, so it is.

1176
00:53:19,996 --> 00:53:21,965
I mean, it is, it is a.

1177
00:53:21,998 --> 00:53:25,969
It is a line we walk because some

1178
00:53:25,969 --> 00:53:28,939
 of our traditions are what make us different than every other sport in the world and

1179
00:53:28,972 --> 00:53:29,940
 and what make us cool.

1180
00:53:30,974 --> 00:53:34,945
Um, I feel like Knowles,

1181
00:53:34,978 --> 00:53:36,947
 I can't let you go without asking a tough question.

1182
00:53:36,947 --> 00:53:37,948
Sorry, um, leave it to me.

1183
00:53:38,982 --> 00:53:39,950
But, um,

1184
00:53:39,983 --> 00:53:42,953
The question would be why some rodeos

1185
00:53:42,986 --> 00:53:43,954
 are allowed.

1186
00:53:44,988 --> 00:53:47,958
Ground rules that go against the

1187
00:53:47,991 --> 00:53:48,959
 PRCA rule book.

1188
00:53:48,992 --> 00:53:51,962
That, And, and,

1189
00:53:51,995 --> 00:53:54,965
 I know it, it aggravates people, you

1190
00:53:54,998 --> 00:53:57,968
 know, they want, you know, they want every football field to be the

1191
00:53:58,969 --> 00:54:01,938
 same size, every arena, but unfortunately for us,

1192
00:54:01,972 --> 00:54:04,941
 there's, there's rodeos and different areas

1193
00:54:04,975 --> 00:54:07,944
 of the world where we have to be a little different tie

1194
00:54:08,979 --> 00:54:11,948
 down roping rules or a little, in,

1195
00:54:11,982 --> 00:54:14,951
 in my humble opinion, and this is going to make some people laugh.

1196
00:54:14,985 --> 00:54:17,954
Um, You know, you got rodeos that

1197
00:54:17,988 --> 00:54:20,957
 are adding $2000000 or whatever, the

1198
00:54:20,991 --> 00:54:21,958
 Houston, the Calgary.

1199
00:54:23,994 --> 00:54:26,963
I mean, I think maybe you are should be considered

1200
00:54:26,997 --> 00:54:28,965
 for a few different little rules.

1201
00:54:28,999 --> 00:54:30,967
We can't treat everybody.

1202
00:54:31,968 --> 00:54:33,937
We'd like to, but we just can't.

1203
00:54:33,970 --> 00:54:34,938
you know in today's world.

1204
00:54:34,971 --> 00:54:37,941
Well, let me let me refine that because I think the

1205
00:54:37,974 --> 00:54:40,944
 way you put it, probably, let

1206
00:54:40,977 --> 00:54:42,946
 me help refine this a little bit.

1207
00:54:42,979 --> 00:54:45,949
I think Kendra and I talked about this before.

1208
00:54:46,983 --> 00:54:49,953
It's not fair, nor

1209
00:54:49,986 --> 00:54:50,954
 is it practical.

1210
00:54:50,987 --> 00:54:54,958
To think that a rodeo in Houston.

1211
00:54:54,991 --> 00:54:59,963
And a rodeo in Shimbug,

1212
00:54:59,996 --> 00:55:00,964
 Logan, Louisiana.

1213
00:55:00,997 --> 00:55:03,967
Have the same set of problems,

1214
00:55:04,968 --> 00:55:07,971
 circumstances, environment, they

1215
00:55:07,971 --> 00:55:10,940
 can't, they if you force them to all to live

1216
00:55:10,974 --> 00:55:13,943
 in a box, then they'll all just grow together.

1217
00:55:14,978 --> 00:55:16,946
The big ones will get smaller.

1218
00:55:16,946 --> 00:55:18,948
The smaller ones will get a little bit bigger if you force

1219
00:55:18,982 --> 00:55:21,951
 everybody into the box, which is why you guys took a

1220
00:55:21,985 --> 00:55:24,954
 small step in creating another category for rodeos.

1221
00:55:25,989 --> 00:55:28,958
But the truth is, there is now, and Kendra and I talked about this.

1222
00:55:28,992 --> 00:55:31,961
There, there should be a huge

1223
00:55:31,995 --> 00:55:34,964
 rodeo category, like whatever you want to call it.

1224
00:55:34,998 --> 00:55:37,967
Like, these are above way above everything

1225
00:55:37,967 --> 00:55:40,937
 else, and you can't, those rodeos

1226
00:55:40,970 --> 00:55:43,940
 and include some of the rodeos on the west coast, they can't live in the same

1227
00:55:43,973 --> 00:55:44,941
 rules, Kendra.

1228
00:55:44,974 --> 00:55:47,944
It's just not feasible.

1229
00:55:47,977 --> 00:55:48,945
Now, we're trying to force it.

1230
00:55:49,979 --> 00:55:51,948
But it is damning.

1231
00:55:51,981 --> 00:55:52,949
It's not good for our sport.

1232
00:55:52,982 --> 00:55:55,952
I think one thing that gets interesting for me.

1233
00:55:55,985 --> 00:55:58,955
I'm, you know, into wide open conversations and

1234
00:55:58,988 --> 00:56:01,958
 and, if your idea is better than mine.

1235
00:56:01,991 --> 00:56:02,959
Awesome.

1236
00:56:02,992 --> 00:56:04,961
Like we all need to keep talking.

1237
00:56:04,994 --> 00:56:07,964
And I think part of the trick about all

1238
00:56:07,997 --> 00:56:10,967
 of us having this wide open conversation is that

1239
00:56:10,967 --> 00:56:13,937
 it's not always best for the sport for

1240
00:56:13,970 --> 00:56:16,940
 us to have these wide open conversations publicly.

1241
00:56:17,974 --> 00:56:19,943
Do you see my point?

1242
00:56:19,976 --> 00:56:20,944
I agree.

1243
00:56:20,977 --> 00:56:23,947
Um, So, you know, that's where

1244
00:56:23,980 --> 00:56:25,949
 it gets a little bit tricky.

1245
00:56:25,949 --> 00:56:27,951
Because part of me, fundamental, you know, on basic principle

1246
00:56:28,985 --> 00:56:30,954
 is like, well, the rules apply to everybody.

1247
00:56:30,987 --> 00:56:33,957
There may, you may explain to me, hey, this,

1248
00:56:33,990 --> 00:56:34,958
 this will not fly here and here's why.

1249
00:56:35,992 --> 00:56:38,962
But then it gets tricky for me like,

1250
00:56:38,995 --> 00:56:39,963
 man, we're, you know.

1251
00:56:40,997 --> 00:56:42,999
Are we keeping a secret and that's dangerous?

1252
00:56:42,999 --> 00:56:44,968
You're right.

1253
00:56:44,968 --> 00:56:47,937
You know, different states have different speed limits.

1254
00:56:47,937 --> 00:56:49,939
You know, so we're not all the same driving, but

1255
00:56:50,974 --> 00:56:53,977
 when we do do this, let's say a Houston, Calgary.

1256
00:56:53,977 --> 00:56:56,946
Who reached the benefits as a membership?

1257
00:56:56,980 --> 00:56:58,948
You know, we do this for the membership.

1258
00:56:58,948 --> 00:57:00,950
We want this money in our members' pockets.

1259
00:57:01,985 --> 00:57:02,952
We want it to count.

1260
00:57:02,952 --> 00:57:04,954
Um, you know, some of them rodeos are big

1261
00:57:04,988 --> 00:57:06,956
 enough to do their own thing as you know.

1262
00:57:07,991 --> 00:57:08,958
We want to be their partner.

1263
00:57:09,993 --> 00:57:11,961
We don't want to lose one rodeo.

1264
00:57:11,995 --> 00:57:12,962
I'm I'm greedy.

1265
00:57:12,996 --> 00:57:15,965
I want every rodeo under the PRCA umbrella if we can get.

1266
00:57:15,999 --> 00:57:18,968
For for those who are who then I

1267
00:57:19,969 --> 00:57:22,939
 can hear the peanut gallery saying, oh, well, they're

1268
00:57:22,972 --> 00:57:25,942
 just giving in because is it still 6% that

1269
00:57:25,975 --> 00:57:27,944
 goes to the PRCA off the top?

1270
00:57:27,944 --> 00:57:30,947
Uh, no, on those $1000000 rodeo there's a flat fee.

1271
00:57:31,981 --> 00:57:32,982
It's cat.

1272
00:57:32,982 --> 00:57:33,950
There's a flat fee.

1273
00:57:33,983 --> 00:57:36,953
Okay, but for people who want to come at you and say, you're just

1274
00:57:36,986 --> 00:57:40,957
 letting them slide because they give the PRC so much money, what do you say to them?

1275
00:57:41,991 --> 00:57:44,961
Yes, their money, you know, we and we have made

1276
00:57:45,995 --> 00:57:47,964
 a lot of money here in the last 5 years here.

1277
00:57:47,997 --> 00:57:49,966
Um, you know, it's give us a lot.

1278
00:57:50,967 --> 00:57:51,935
We give it back.

1279
00:57:51,968 --> 00:57:53,937
Like, it's, we don't get to take it home.

1280
00:57:53,937 --> 00:57:55,939
You know, it's it's the members money.

1281
00:57:55,972 --> 00:57:58,942
You know, we recycle it and it goes back out in their pockets some.

1282
00:57:59,976 --> 00:58:03,947
Every bit, every bit of that money does, but what it does it cost to run the office.

1283
00:58:03,980 --> 00:58:07,951
Um, we've had a very good run here lately.

1284
00:58:07,984 --> 00:58:10,954
And we are, you know, we remember COVID.

1285
00:58:10,987 --> 00:58:12,956
So we do want to have a little money stockpile.

1286
00:58:12,989 --> 00:58:14,958
For the COVID.

1287
00:58:14,958 --> 00:58:16,960
area, whatever the next COVID is, you know, we want

1288
00:58:16,993 --> 00:58:19,963
 to be able to put on the NFR without bar all at

1289
00:58:20,997 --> 00:58:21,965
 a dime as to PRC.

1290
00:58:21,998 --> 00:58:24,968
That's our goal to have that kind of money, you know, in reserve.

1291
00:58:24,968 --> 00:58:27,937
But Kendra, if you were the commissioner, if you took,

1292
00:58:28,972 --> 00:58:29,939
 if you look at this, I have a question for you.

1293
00:58:29,973 --> 00:58:32,942
The PR the Houston, Houston.

1294
00:58:32,976 --> 00:58:35,945
Doesn't have to have the PRCA.

1295
00:58:35,979 --> 00:58:37,947
To still have great cowboys.

1296
00:58:37,981 --> 00:58:40,950
And you're sitting as the boss of the PRC in

1297
00:58:40,984 --> 00:58:44,954
 Houston comes to you and says, We want to be a PRC rodeo.

1298
00:58:44,988 --> 00:58:47,957
But you have to do this or this, or

1299
00:58:48,992 --> 00:58:51,961
 we just won't be a PRCA rodeo and all of your guys are going

1300
00:58:51,995 --> 00:58:52,962
 to come compete.

1301
00:58:52,996 --> 00:58:53,963
I mean.

1302
00:58:54,998 --> 00:58:58,968
What you just explained to people is very helpful though, because

1303
00:58:58,968 --> 00:59:01,938
 the questions I ask usually come from the

1304
00:59:02,972 --> 00:59:04,941
 cowboy parking lot, okay?

1305
00:59:04,941 --> 00:59:06,943
And to answer those questions publicly

1306
00:59:06,976 --> 00:59:09,946
 and openly and honestly is very helpful to a lot of people.

1307
00:59:09,979 --> 00:59:10,947
Just say.

1308
00:59:11,981 --> 00:59:13,950
I made it, you know, I made it clear.

1309
00:59:13,983 --> 00:59:16,953
I'm probably not going to make everybody happy with my answers, but let

1310
00:59:16,986 --> 00:59:18,955
 me just clarify on Houston, Tommy Joe.

1311
00:59:18,988 --> 00:59:20,957
They actually go by every PR team.

1312
00:59:20,990 --> 00:59:23,960
And I'm not.

1313
00:59:23,993 --> 00:59:24,961
I'm actually not.

1314
00:59:24,994 --> 00:59:27,964
I'm not, my point was,

1315
00:59:27,997 --> 00:59:30,967
 any rodeo of that size, when

1316
00:59:30,967 --> 00:59:33,937
 you have 1000000s of dollars of prize money,

1317
00:59:33,970 --> 00:59:37,941
If the from the contestant standpoint, they need to go.

1318
00:59:37,974 --> 00:59:39,943
They need to go.

1319
00:59:39,976 --> 00:59:42,946
And I want it to be under our umbrella.

1320
00:59:42,946 --> 00:59:44,948
You know, and if we make money off of, that's great, Kendra.

1321
00:59:45,982 --> 00:59:47,951
going to end up back in the member's pocket.

1322
00:59:47,984 --> 00:59:50,954
Well, and also, and there used to be a statistic that,

1323
00:59:50,987 --> 00:59:53,957
 that, Back on a former CFO.

1324
00:59:53,990 --> 00:59:54,958
He used to throw out the statistic.

1325
00:59:54,991 --> 00:59:57,961
I don't know what it is today that 88 of

1326
00:59:58,995 --> 01:00:01,965
 every dollar that came in the door went back out to the members.

1327
01:00:01,965 --> 01:00:03,967
I, I, I think that you're pretty close and I don't know that number

1328
01:00:03,967 --> 01:00:05,935
 for a fact, but that's, you're close.

1329
01:00:05,969 --> 01:00:06,936
You're close.

1330
01:00:06,970 --> 01:00:07,937
People know what we're like.

1331
01:00:07,971 --> 01:00:10,940
And and and also for people who who don't really think through

1332
01:00:10,974 --> 01:00:13,943
 all of this, like we do all the time, is there's

1333
01:00:13,977 --> 01:00:16,946
 also a huge incentive for these huge rodeos to

1334
01:00:16,980 --> 01:00:19,949
 to want to be Pierce 8 and to have a

1335
01:00:19,983 --> 01:00:22,952
 big impact on the NFR conversation and who makes it, right?

1336
01:00:22,986 --> 01:00:24,954
That's a big incentive for them.

1337
01:00:24,988 --> 01:00:27,957
That I think that's the whole bait is the

1338
01:00:27,991 --> 01:00:29,959
 NFR for all these committees.

1339
01:00:29,993 --> 01:00:32,962
And and we're we're fortunate enough.

1340
01:00:32,962 --> 01:00:35,965
Uh, to have that on our side, that NFR,

1341
01:00:35,999 --> 01:00:36,966
 you know, what a wonderful thing to have.

1342
01:00:36,966 --> 01:00:39,936
Well, that's what that's what the PRCA's

1343
01:00:39,969 --> 01:00:43,940
 had, that has been the demise of every other competing entity.

1344
01:00:44,974 --> 01:00:45,942
historically.

1345
01:00:45,975 --> 01:00:47,944
They lose because they don't have the NFR.

1346
01:00:47,977 --> 01:00:50,947
They have good ideas and sometimes they have money.

1347
01:00:50,980 --> 01:00:53,950
But they don't have the NFR, and they lose

1348
01:00:53,983 --> 01:00:56,953
 because you always, the best are always

1349
01:00:56,986 --> 01:00:58,955
 carrying a PRCA card.

1350
01:00:59,989 --> 01:01:01,958
Like that's the truth.

1351
01:01:01,958 --> 01:01:03,960
They might be doing other things, but if you're if you're

1352
01:01:03,993 --> 01:01:06,963
 a PRCA rodeo, the very best in the world have

1353
01:01:07,997 --> 01:01:08,998
 the opportunity to compete at your rodeo.

1354
01:01:08,998 --> 01:01:09,966
And that's a big deal.

1355
01:01:10,967 --> 01:01:11,934
That's a big deal.

1356
01:01:11,968 --> 01:01:14,937
Knowles, are you going to pack up and move to Cheyenne?

1357
01:01:14,971 --> 01:01:17,940
Um, I don't know.

1358
01:01:18,975 --> 01:01:21,944
I'm committed to get the office there.

1359
01:01:21,978 --> 01:01:24,947
I am committed to get get us moved.

1360
01:01:24,981 --> 01:01:26,949
You know, it's only too little over 2 years away.

1361
01:01:26,983 --> 01:01:29,952
And I always wanted to go south.

1362
01:01:29,986 --> 01:01:31,954
I never dreamed of heading north from here.

1363
01:01:31,988 --> 01:01:33,956
But it's only 3 hours.

1364
01:01:33,990 --> 01:01:35,958
It's not very far, so.

1365
01:01:35,992 --> 01:01:37,960
I'm committed to getting the office there.

1366
01:01:38,995 --> 01:01:41,964
I think it's a good move for all the Naysayers out.

1367
01:01:41,998 --> 01:01:44,967
It's a fantastic, smart.

1368
01:01:44,967 --> 01:01:47,937
Well calculated, well done

1369
01:01:47,970 --> 01:01:51,941
 move, everybody who says otherwise just

1370
01:01:51,974 --> 01:01:52,942
 doesn't.

1371
01:01:53,976 --> 01:01:54,944
Why do you say that?

1372
01:01:54,977 --> 01:01:55,945
Me?

1373
01:01:55,978 --> 01:01:56,446
Explain yourself.

1374
01:01:56,446 --> 01:01:56,913
Yeah, just curious.

1375
01:01:56,979 --> 01:01:57,947
Financial, I don't know.

1376
01:01:57,980 --> 01:02:01,951
Financially, the the agreement, the way it was, right?

1377
01:02:01,984 --> 01:02:05,955
You're able to take the property that they have in Colorado Springs,

1378
01:02:05,988 --> 01:02:08,958
 reinvest that in the Hall of Fame and other things that need

1379
01:02:08,991 --> 01:02:11,961
 that money to survive, go to a brand new place

1380
01:02:12,995 --> 01:02:15,965
 with facilities and ground on the corner

1381
01:02:15,998 --> 01:02:18,968
 of 2 major interstates in a rodeo

1382
01:02:18,968 --> 01:02:20,937
 welcoming state, right?

1383
01:02:20,970 --> 01:02:23,940
And build this out the way you dream to build it.

1384
01:02:23,973 --> 01:02:26,943
And oh, by the way, well, what about the people, the Hall of

1385
01:02:26,976 --> 01:02:27,944
 Fame at Colorado Springs?

1386
01:02:28,978 --> 01:02:29,946
Let me tell you something.

1387
01:02:29,979 --> 01:02:32,949
More people will walk in front of the Hall of Fame during the Cheyenne frontier

1388
01:02:32,982 --> 01:02:35,952
 days than they ever do at Colorado Springs.

1389
01:02:35,985 --> 01:02:38,955
So all of these people that I see that are seeing,

1390
01:02:38,988 --> 01:02:41,958
 uh, uh, well, now this is not good for some of the employees

1391
01:02:41,991 --> 01:02:44,961
 that want to live in Colorado Springs, but Colorado Springs

1392
01:02:44,994 --> 01:02:45,962
 is crunchy.

1393
01:02:46,996 --> 01:02:47,964
It's crunchy.

1394
01:02:47,997 --> 01:02:48,965
It's Karen.

1395
01:02:48,998 --> 01:02:49,966
Wyoming's not.

1396
01:02:49,999 --> 01:02:53,970
I can't think of a reason why you wouldn't do the deal unless

1397
01:02:53,970 --> 01:02:56,939
 it was financially backwards, Kendra, and it's financially

1398
01:02:56,973 --> 01:02:59,942
 a windfall for the membership of the PRCA.

1399
01:03:00,977 --> 01:03:04,947
It's just, it's, it's, to me, nobody's

1400
01:03:04,981 --> 01:03:06,949
 convinced me that this is not a no-brainer.

1401
01:03:06,983 --> 01:03:08,951
And they hand us a deed.

1402
01:03:08,985 --> 01:03:11,954
To the point be in the building when we move in.

1403
01:03:11,988 --> 01:03:14,957
It's just, we're committed to creating jobs there.

1404
01:03:14,991 --> 01:03:15,958
I think it's great.

1405
01:03:15,992 --> 01:03:19,962
You know, and I think five, 10 years from now, it'll be old news.

1406
01:03:20,997 --> 01:03:23,966
And you know, nobody, nobody put Bernard on the,

1407
01:03:24,967 --> 01:03:26,936
 the guillotine block when he went from.

1408
01:03:26,969 --> 01:03:29,939
I remember when we were in the springs at the tiny little office in

1409
01:03:29,972 --> 01:03:32,942
 Tihan, up at the top, and Pueblo offered

1410
01:03:33,976 --> 01:03:36,979
 to build them out a really nice cool thing, and Pueblo's

1411
01:03:36,979 --> 01:03:39,949
 not near as cool as Colorado Springs, frankly,

1412
01:03:39,982 --> 01:03:42,952
 in my opinion, and everybody went down there and

1413
01:03:42,985 --> 01:03:44,954
 I didn't see Bernard getting strung up.

1414
01:03:44,987 --> 01:03:45,955
Well, maybe he did.

1415
01:03:46,989 --> 01:03:48,958
And they moved again, I think.

1416
01:03:48,991 --> 01:03:49,959
Now they're in Fort Worth, aren't they?

1417
01:03:50,993 --> 01:03:51,961
Fort Worth, Texas.

1418
01:03:51,994 --> 01:03:52,962
Yeah.

1419
01:03:52,995 --> 01:03:53,963
All right.

1420
01:03:53,996 --> 01:03:56,966
Well, this has been Steve, thank you for joining us.

1421
01:03:56,999 --> 01:03:57,967
It's refreshing.

1422
01:03:58,968 --> 01:04:01,938
For you, you know, I wish that

1423
01:04:01,971 --> 01:04:05,942
 the PRCA would have you and you guys, here's to Kinder's point.

1424
01:04:05,975 --> 01:04:09,946
The open communication would

1425
01:04:09,946 --> 01:04:12,949
 be of such value to the PRCA, the

1426
01:04:12,982 --> 01:04:15,952
 transparency and an effort to make sure that happens,

1427
01:04:15,985 --> 01:04:18,955
 because I know you guys have your head down and you're

1428
01:04:18,988 --> 01:04:19,956
 working into Kendra's point.

1429
01:04:20,990 --> 01:04:23,960
If there was a little more communication,

1430
01:04:23,993 --> 01:04:27,964
 because I don't know that there's a lack of transparency, I think there's a lack of effort.

1431
01:04:27,997 --> 01:04:29,966
To communicate.

1432
01:04:29,999 --> 01:04:32,969
to the world that wants to know why you

1433
01:04:32,969 --> 01:04:34,937
 guys are doing the darn things you're doing up there.

1434
01:04:34,971 --> 01:04:35,938
I agree.

1435
01:04:36,973 --> 01:04:39,942
We, we, we need to get better at communication, even

1436
01:04:39,976 --> 01:04:40,943
 in internally.

1437
01:04:40,977 --> 01:04:41,944
We are not really good communicators.

1438
01:04:41,978 --> 01:04:43,946
We live in our silos.

1439
01:04:43,980 --> 01:04:47,950
Sometimes somebody, somebody tells me their side of the story and I'm like,

1440
01:04:47,984 --> 01:04:49,952
Wow, great idea.

1441
01:04:49,986 --> 01:04:50,953
I never would have thought of that, you know?

1442
01:04:51,988 --> 01:04:54,957
Well, we want to thank all of you listeners.

1443
01:04:54,991 --> 01:04:55,958
Thank you so much for coming.

1444
01:04:55,992 --> 01:04:57,960
I'm going to throw it up.

1445
01:04:57,994 --> 01:04:58,961
If you want feedback.

1446
01:04:58,995 --> 01:05:01,964
If you have questions, concerns, you want us to find out from Knowles.

1447
01:05:01,998 --> 01:05:04,967
He will occasionally answer our texts.

1448
01:05:04,967 --> 01:05:08,938
You can text us at 817-668-2395

1449
01:05:08,971 --> 01:05:11,941
 or you can email us at nospin feedback

1450
01:05:11,974 --> 01:05:13,943
 at gmail.com.

1451
01:05:13,976 --> 01:05:14,944
If you didn't get that.

1452
01:05:14,977 --> 01:05:17,947
Just do me a favor and rewind because I don't want to say it again.

1453
01:05:18,981 --> 01:05:21,951
Hey, episode 110, no spin rodeo.

1454
01:05:21,984 --> 01:05:22,952
Thank you, Mr. Knowles.

1455
01:05:22,985 --> 01:05:25,955
Thank you to the wonderful Kendra Santos, one

1456
01:05:25,988 --> 01:05:28,958
 of my good friends and a friend to the rodeo industry.

1457
01:05:28,991 --> 01:05:30,960
Until we meet again.

1458
01:05:30,993 --> 01:05:31,961
Y'all be safe.

1459
01:05:31,961 --> 01:05:32,962
Don't take anything for granted.

1460
01:05:32,995 --> 01:05:33,963
Um,

1461
01:05:33,996 --> 01:05:35,965
Life is a gift.

1462
01:05:35,998 --> 01:05:39,969
It's not, it's not as bad as you think it is.

1463
01:05:39,969 --> 01:05:40,936
Things are better than you think they are.

1464
01:05:41,971 --> 01:05:42,938
God bless all of you.

1465
01:05:42,972 --> 01:05:43,940
will see you next time.

1466
01:05:43,973 --> 01:05:45,942
This has been no spin road.