You're listening to gift biz unwrapped episode 188 the power of
asking a question will take you to destinations and explorations that
you cannot imagine.
Attention gifters,
bakers, crafters and makers pursuing your dream can be fun.
Whether you have an established business or looking to start one
now you are in the right place.
This is gift to biz unwrapped,
helping you turn your skill into a flourishing business.
Join us for an episode packed full of invaluable guidance,
resources and the support you need to grow your gift biz.
Here is your host gift biz gal,
Sue moon Heights high gift biz listeners.
It's Sue And thank you so much for sharing a little
bit of your time with me today.
I have one announcement and one short story before we get
into the show.
The announcement is if you are not already part of the
gift biz breeze Facebook group,
Oh my gosh,
what are you waiting for?
We have something super special happening right now in that group
for the holidays for you,
and I want you to be a part of it,
to get all the details and to know what I'm talking
about. However you need to go over and join the breeze.
Joining is super easy.
Just go on to Facebook,
search for gift,
biz breeze and asked to join.
I'll see you in the breeze now for my short story
about four years ago was when I was really in depth
strategizing this podcast.
As with anything you build,
you want to have some planning and really think things through
and determine how this was all going to come together just
like we do for our businesses,
right? So I'm thinking to myself,
I already knew this was going to be a guest interview
based show because I wanted to share all their people who
are creating businesses to show everybody how doable it is and
then to also share what's working for other people and people
in your industry,
people out of your industry,
et cetera.
So I'm thinking to myself,
well, you know,
where am I going to get all these people?
I have a relatively sizable network of acquaintances and people through
my other business,
you know,
the ribbon print company,
but where am I going to find some of these other
people? And there was an artist's work that kept popping out
to me.
I do a fair amount of traveling and a lot of
times I was seeing her work at airport shops and I
was always drawn into it.
It was bold,
it's beautiful,
it's vibrant.
It just really resonated with me and I thought to myself
way back then.
So that's almost four years ago.
Wow. I wonder what her story is and I wonder if
I'd ever be in a position to have her on my
show. Well,
listen to this crazy things,
you know,
law of attraction.
Once again,
I don't know if it shows up in your life,
but it shows up all the time in mine,
ends up our paths cross.
I interviewed Sean Perala for the podcast.
You might have heard her episode a couple of weeks ago.
She and Sonia are friends.
I guess they got to chatting and Sonia reached out to
me. She was wondering if we could each be on each
other's podcasts because we serve a similar audience.
You and I looked at the name and I'm like,
no, that cannot be the same person I was thinking about
four years ago.
Of course I go to the website,
see her art because it's immediately recognizable and I was like,
this is insane how these things happen.
And of course I invited her onto the show in a
second and now you get to listen to her whole story
and I just want to point out what happened here.
I had a thought for the future.
I didn't know if it was obtainable or not.
Honestly, I really didn't think about it a lot more over
the course of the years because I already had guests coming
and I was able to easily find and attract guests into
the show.
But she's a special one because she brings me back to
that time when I was wondering if the podcast was going
to work.
I was wondering if anyone was going to listen to the
show and I was wondering if ever I'd be able to
have some of the guests of the caliber and quality that
each and every one of our guests has been to date.
So no more rambling with me.
I've just reinforced to me and point out to you once
again that all of these things that we sometimes think aren't
possible truly are.
So now it is my great pleasure to introduce you to
Sonia paths.
Sonia is a fine artist who has created her own highly
recognizable individual brand and pop art style of painting in addition
to fine art paintings,
products include Sonya pass,
signature limited edition wrist wear,
watches, ceramics,
apparel, clocks,
jewelry and framed prints.
Her products are found in boutiques,
museum shops and wineries and interior designers and decorators use.
Sonia has designs for modern home accents and original art.
Sonia is also a marketing and branding Wiz who has made
a name for herself in the art world.
She enjoys helping others who are developing their own brand and
creative business with her knowledge of expertise,
marketing savvy,
and sassy.
Tenacity. Sonya pays it forward as the host and creator of
the rock star mentor podcast and related services.
I am so excited that you are here.
Sonya, welcome to the gift biz unwrapped podcast.
Hi, thank you so much Sue for having me on the
show today.
I am so excited and I just have to share with
our listeners that I have been a lover of your work
for years and was so excited when we were able to
finally connect.
I know such a small world,
I can't believe it.
And then you recently had one of my great friends,
Sean Perla with all the buzz gifts on and I thought,
Oh I know this,
I know this podcast.
So that was exciting.
Oh, so you were listening to me even before Sean was
on. Yeah,
cause she had told me about it.
Oh got it.
One of our meetings,
I said,
Oh I got to check it out cause I just love
anything. Well,
you know,
being that I'm in retail and do all the gifted kind
of things too,
I thought,
Oh, I'd love to hear what other people have to say
and I love to hear the journeys of other people in
how they got to where they are.
Absolutely. And that's what we're going to do with you too.
Right now it's a little bit challenging because you have so
much going on,
so we're going to see how much we can get to
and not make this podcast like five hours long.
Sure. Before we get started,
I like to introduce you in a little bit of a
different way.
Have her audience get to know you by way of a
motivational candle and I'm guessing this is going to be super
easy for you to do.
So if you were to describe for us a motivational candle
by color and quote that really speaks you,
what would your candle look like?
Well, my candle would be lime green because that is my
favorite color.
I love green.
It's just nature,
it's energy,
it's fun,
it's flowing and I'm picturing it with a cool label on
it. I guess,
I don't know if you want me to put a label
on it.
It's your candle,
so it would be lime green with a copper wrapping that
says life is business as usual and I know that a
lot of entrepreneurs and business people will understand that one because
as an artist,
as anybody,
especially your listeners,
my listeners,
whoever are listening that are artists and entrepreneurs,
you know that your mind is constantly spinning.
So I always say life is business as usual.
I mean,
I don't know if a personal quote is good or if
a more traditional one is,
but that's the one that sort of stands out when I
talk to people and we're working on a plan for them
as far as their business or if I'm selling artwork to
somebody is my art is my life and it's all business
and I love business.
I know.
How did we get ourselves here?
All these women who love business and creators at that and
then turning our crafts into businesses.
I think it's wonderful.
Yeah. When I opened up my gallery in downtown Campbell in
2008 well,
I made the mistake of telling my husband the story about
when I was a kid.
Yeah, I had a cardboard store in my bedroom and when
we were doing the ribbon cutting at my gallery in December
of 2008 the mayor was there and they asked to Mark
to talk for a few minutes and so he told a
story of the cardboard store and then I thought,
Oh no,
now everyone knows.
But I was destined to have some type of store presence
or a love for retail or just to have something that
I was owning and I was able to do and produce
for others.
I think that's a great story.
I wouldn't be embarrassed by that at all.
Oh, well I was just taken back.
I thought you're telling this 150 people.
Oh my God,
I want this,
you know,
welcome to Sonia's cardboard store.
So, but it was a lot bigger than a cardboard store.
Oh my gosh.
Well, I have to just say,
because it's so relevant right here.
I've got a lot of people who will say,
I want to start a business,
I want to do something creative.
And many creators do lots of different types of things.
They might sew and they might needle point and they might
knit or they might do watercolor and oil painting,
you know,
all different types of things.
So what actually do they start as a business?
And one of the things I always say is,
well what did you love as a child?
Was it that you enjoyed so much?
Because I'm seeing a commonality.
There's actually three different things.
We're not going to go into that now.
But part of it is what did you really love to
do as a child?
Because then you were so carefree,
Right? There had been no societal rules that have been imposed
on you yet.
And so it's good to go back there and your story
falls right in line with that with your shop,
your cardboard store.
Yeah. And it's so funny cause we were in downtown Campbell
and a couple of friends of mine,
other business owners came up to me during our event and
said, Oh my God,
I love the story.
She says,
you know,
well one of my friends Priscilla,
and she had owned a gift shop down in downtown.
She said,
I understand.
She says it's a rare person that knows what they want
to do at an early age.
And she said,
I totally get it.
I had my own version of a cardboard store.
So I felt like,
okay, I have a tribe.
There's people do get it.
I'm not there For sure.
Well let's back it up from the in between the gallery
and the cardboard store.
So left this go batter a little bit.
How did you land on the idea of art and doing
that as your business?
Or you might even have to back up further than that.
I don't even know your story,
Sonia, so Oh sure.
You're going to need to back up and kind of share
how you've gotten to where you are.
Oh sure.
Thank you.
So I have always been creative.
Back when the cardboard store,
I had my own lemonade stand and everything that I did
regarding business.
Oh and let me just add that.
I've been a cake decorator when I was in high school,
I went from that to working as a florist.
I went to floral design school in Anaheim,
California right after high school.
And I've just also been a natural marketer.
So with all of these different creative businesses that I've had,
I've just always just had the business hat on.
And of course,
you know,
as we became a parent,
I mean a mother and had to provide for the family
and everything.
I worked in corporate and I worked at companies like Apple,
Claris, Microsoft,
Adobe. So these have always been creative companies and I've thrived
in that environment because it's who I,
and it's the composition of who I am and how I'm
formatted. Before that also,
I also worked in automobile sales for Mitsubishi motors.
So I learned how to sell.
I mean hardcore selling cause when you're the only woman on
a lot of salesmen,
you got to get your game on.
You got to be confident in,
they're going to dish it to you,
you gotta dish it back.
But you know,
I want it to be salesperson of the month quite often.
And so I worked really hard to hone in on the
sales skills and I was a fish out of water at
that point cause I never sold anything that large of a
product. So one of the managers took me under his wing
and said,
you know,
you have to overcome a lot of these fears.
So with that knowledge and working in a high tech and
being creative,
I've sort of just started working and doing my art.
So I would say in the mid nineties I had a
love for the Warhol style of artwork and I decided that
I, you know,
of course I love Lucille ball.
I did a eight week show at Gordon Biersch brewery in
downtown San Jose and the show was called Lucille ball,
one woman,
many faces.
And I had about 14 of these screen printed,
embellished large paintings that we covered the entire restaurant in.
And that was my first solo show.
And I would say that although that's not the style that
I really do today,
it was something I had to get out of my system.
There was a lot of things going on when I was
working for Microsoft at the time and it was just,
it was a lot of pressure and a lot of things
happening and I wasn't happy at that job.
I can probably say that now.
It's okay,
it's all good,
but I said,
this is the goal that I'm going to have for this
year and I'm going to do that.
And I did it and it was so funny because people
would ask me,
Hey, how'd you get that eight week show at the brewery?
Oh, I picked up the phone,
I contacted the manager and I asked the question.
No wait,
it was that quick.
It was,
he said,
sounds cool.
Can bring in a couple of samples and I didn't even
have all the paintings yet.
I had the screen print design and that's a whole interesting
story. The power of asking a question will take you to
destinations and explorations that you cannot imagine because I didn't want
to get in trouble for using an image of Lucille ball
and Desi Arnaz.
It was on a book cover that I had seen at
Barnes and noble and I picked up the book cover and
I bought,
well, I picked up the book,
I purchased it and I flipped to the back of the
book because I wanted to find who the publisher was so
I can ask permission to use the image.
So we're talking 1994 way before we had Google and Yahoo
and all these big search engines where you at the touch
of a finger,
you can get your information.
I had to call,
what was it,
information, the area code of New York city.
(212) 555-1212.
Do you remember that?
Oh my gosh.
You know,
call information when you actually have to dial four one one.
I had totally forgotten that.
That's so funny.
That's how far back we're going.
So I call this publishing company.
I get this grumpy guy and I'm picturing this guy in
a smoky office with one window,
the, you know,
the office is probably about four foot by 10 foot.
This is what I'm picturing in my mind and I get
this guy on the phone and he basically tells me in
so many words that you've got a long haul here,
young lady,
you've got to find out this and that and you can
have to write in,
you can have to get an attorney and all this stuff.
And I usually don't take no for an answer pretty easily.
So I did some research.
I ended up finding out the name of the photographer who
took the photo.
I looked him up in the Hollywood Hills directory.
I ended up finding out that his wife was,
he was,
she was widowed cause he had passed away but his name
was Leonard needle.
And he is the gentleman who took the photo of Lucille
ball and Desi Arnaz in 1957 and I talked to her,
I told her what my vision was and what I wanted
to do.
She said,
would you kindly send me a letter requesting the information that
you'd like and the purpose?
I wrote her the letter,
she wrote me back via mail.
You know the thing you put in the envelope and stick
a stamp on it.
And she gave me permission to use the image.
So therefore that image is what I took to the restaurant
and said,
this is what I'm going to be doing and here's the
scope of the project and these are how big they're going
to be.
And the manager,
his name was John,
I don't remember his last name,
but he said,
that sounds really cool.
Let's set a date and about fell over.
Wow. I thought,
here we go.
The game is on the ceilings coming down.
The floor is coming up and I'm going to just make
this happen.
So when you do that,
because I see artists work in coffee shops around here,
you know I'm here in the Northern suburbs of Chicago.
When you do something like that and all of your art
then is for sale,
right. Do you then give some type of a cut of
a purchase back to that location?
Is that how that works?
Typically it's depending on the coffee shop or restaurant.
A lot of times the,
and I would say a lot of times,
don't quote me on this,
but depends on the venue.
Depends on the restaurant.
Sometimes they want to have 12 different looks throughout the year
so they will do a rotating artist or rotating photographer or
what have you show at their restaurant.
So they'll have someone that will curate that cause they want
to make sure they have first of all enough artwork to
cover and that it's appropriate for all ages or it's,
you know,
nothing too political controversial or whatever.
The fits with the style that they want to present.
Exactly. So a lot of the times they say,
we'll have a reception for you and they'll pay for that.
And at least in my case it was,
we'll do a reception for you.
You bring the people,
they buy food and drink,
we're fine.
And we had on many occasions I've done that and that's
how I started getting a lot of my artwork out there
and the Gordon bearish brewery in downtown.
My first Real show.
But that was in 94 and then a lot of stuff
kind of happened.
I was not doing art as a full time thing.
I want to stop you though right here,
just for a second because I think that point,
the power of asking a question is so powerful and people
just don't do it.
They don't even think of asking and look,
when you talk about the story,
there's two things here and I am so glad we got
on this story.
The first thing is you got started decided this is what
you were going to do.
It isn't the style of art that you now represent and
that represents Sonia pass as the brand.
Right? Right.
But you got started.
So it had to evolve to that from somewhere.
So that was the first thing.
And the second thing I really like is when you were
going after getting permission for that photo,
you found a different way.
Right? Because you could have just closed up and said,
okay, not doing it.
You know it's not going to work.
He's telling me it's going to be a long,
hard road.
It's not worth it.
I'll just find another photo and expensive and expensive.
No, you found another way.
Right, which is really cool.
It was pretty cool.
I ended up meeting her a couple of months later when
my cousin and I took a drive to Southern California.
I called her and said,
Hey, I'm going to be in your neck of the woods.
Can I meet you?
And she invited us to her house for tea.
It was the most surreal event.
I thought.
I walked into a set of some old movie and this
home with photography all over the walls.
Oh my gosh.
Sort of art deco day.
It was in.
I only imagined to myself.
Really? He was so lovely.
You're absolutely correct.
If I had said in all my life,
if I take no for an answer,
just go and take my marbles and go somewhere else.
I would not be who I am today.
The reason I always use the word tenacity or tenacious,
it's not meant in a bad way.
It's meant to be in a very spunky,
sassy way.
So that,
I mean,
I'm about four foot tall,
I'm petite.
I have people tell me that I'm 10 feet tall because
what comes out of my mouth and my personality overrides my
size. Because as a child I was always the last one
picked for sports.
I was always underestimated and understated because I was smaller and
I think I wasn't taken seriously for a lot of years
and I got important stuff to talk about.
Yeah, well,
and I have to say,
I mean when I look at your style,
it's bold,
it's solid,
it's bold.
It's like you know exactly what it is,
right? There's no reading between the lines.
There's a lot of intricacy in terms of all the elements,
but all your colors are bold.
So that has all gone into your creative outlet as well.
Right. And that style developed from the Lucille ball thing.
That was something I needed to get out of my system,
but I didn't carry through that Warhol esque style of our
ongoing, I actually didn't do art for three years or so.
We had some family changes In our home and then I
decided that I needed to surround myself around something positive and
I took my love of the cubistic style of Picasso and
Brock and all that and I took the style of American
pop art,
Lichtenstein, herring,
Warhol and Peter max and the artists that really had a
simple style with a strong statement.
I took my cubistic style and the love for pop art
and I melded the two together and I did everything that
my art teachers told me never to do.
They always said,
Oh, you can mix this style with that.
The masters never did this.
A masters never did that.
My response to that was,
well, I don't know anything about the masters and I'm,
they're dead and I didn't have anything to do with setting
up those roles,
so I'm going to go do my own thing.
That's how that whole style evolved and it's really taken a
lot of different directions over the last,
Oh gosh,
we're going on 22 years of creating.
Is it really 22 years?
Gosh about that.
I have to say that you have achieved what I think
a lot of people strive for because if someone,
I'm, I have a mug here right from you were talking
about that before.
I've seen your products.
If I walk in anywhere and I see something of yours,
I know automatically it's yours because your style is so unique.
Now could someone try and copy it?
Probably, but they're not going to do a very good job
because of just the way everything is put together and your
unique way of creating it and all of that.
And I think that's what,
as makers,
everyone is trying to do have something where even if they
couldn't see the name on it,
they know who it is,
they know where it's from.
Right. And I have lots of people say,
Hey, I saw your stuff at a friend of mine's house
in new Orleans or whatever.
And I would think an ad and ads,
it looks like mine,
you know,
and it would end up being my art.
So I have what we call Sonya sightings.
There you go.
It's gotta be so rewarding.
It gives me a giant warm fuzzy and I think really,
what was your name?
Which piece was it?
What'd it look like?
Where was it hanging up?
Oh my gosh.
Then comes to the drill.
So I have to ask this question.
I'm not a painter,
I'm not an artist in that way.
Were you first just doing pictures on paper and then you
saw that people started liking them or what were those first
steps? I keep bringing you back because I think it's good
information for people to understand the progression.
Sure. Well,
I was working when I was doing the style,
I started doing it just for me.
Doing what?
Painting on paper or what was that painting on paper?
They were smaller way smaller about five by seven and then
I daringly went up to eight by 10 I was doing
acrylic on 140 pound watercolor paper and doing the art and
painting on the dining room table when the kids went to
bed. I have two sons and they were much younger at
the time.
And so after they would go to bed,
it was my time to sort of just decompress that working
eight to 10 hour day had two kids.
I wrangled them at night.
My, uh,
former spouse and I had parted ways and he ended up
getting sick and he passed away.
Well, I'm sorry to hear that.
Oh, thank you.
And here we were,
is doing the single parent thing.
I mean,
full time,
no break,
that kind of thing.
And so the painting really took me back to relaxing and
zoning out and just creating from the heart and creating things
that were meaningful to me and the bright colors really made
me feel a lot better.
Plus I wanted to hang art in my house that I
liked, that I could really relate to.
So I started hanging his up and then a neighbor had
come over ahead.
A new neighbor that moved in next door,
she had come over,
she wanted to introduce herself of all things.
I had this crazy martini painting in my entryway and she
goes, wow,
that's really cool artwork.
Where'd you get that?
And I said,
Oh, I did that.
No, really,
can you make one for me?
And I was sort of taken back.
I go,
well, I probably could.
And she said,
well, how much will it cost?
25 bucks.
And the cost of the front line.
Gosh, I know.
And from that,
when eBay was,
I wouldn't say 1990 1999 ish.
Yeah, it was 1999 I started selling on eBay.
I thought,
well, I'll paint a couple paintings.
I'll put them on paper and I would paint them.
And the next day I'd go to work.
I'd come home at lunch and I would photograph them in
the driveway just because that was where the sun shined the
best. And for me,
my artwork was better photographed in sunlight versus in a light
box before they had light boxes and stuff like that.
So I would do that.
And then that night I would prep the artwork in Photoshop,
put little watermark,
and then I would wait until Sunday to post about three
or four on eBay,
a handler routine I would do every week.
And I started getting bids on these little paintings,
eight by 10 paintings.
And then I would get asked by others about commissioned work
and you know,
Hey, could you do a picture of my daughter on a
16 by 20 canvas?
And I'm thinking,
Oh my God,
16 by 20 so,
which is nothing now,
but back at the time I thought,
wow, I'm going to have to go buy an easel.
Gosh, you know,
this is a big step.
And it just snowballed because as people started collecting and buying
them, I would create more.
And that was the beginning.
So I do think eBay for my beginnings on selling my
art, and I didn't have to be present to be selling
it. I love the fact that you talk about you didn't
have fancy cameras,
you didn't have lighting,
you didn't have a light box on your driveway in the
sun, which again goes back to the fact that we can
be our own worst critics and we can stop ourselves with
our thinking because you could have said,
no, I can't do it yet.
I don't have a fancy camera.
I need to hire a photographer.
Whatever. You didn't do that and E-bay.
Such a good idea because you're able to test first you
had your neighbor come in,
which probably that's light moment.
Like wait,
Someone really wants to spend money and pay me to do
this. That's interesting.
Right? And then eBay so great because you only had to
make a couple of items and then see if they sell.
So you weren't risking too much.
Putting yourself out there from a financial standpoint,
you know,
emotionally, of course you want everyone to love what you're doing,
but an excellent way in demonstration of how to start growing
little by little.
Sure. And of course eBay is so different now,
but eBay at the time in 99 was great.
I mean you could get rid of the drapes in your
living room if you didn't like them,
take a photo,
stick them up on eBay.
There was so many different ways to sell,
so many different things and I had been part of this
artist group called EBS Q,
which was started by John seed and he actually reached out
to eBay in those early days and worked with a gal
in the category section of E-bay because at the time to
list your painting or artwork or current works,
it was the category was art and antiques slash 1900 to
present, well hello gosh,
1999 I mean are you really going to put everything from
1901 to 1999 in this one category.
So he worked with them to identify and create what is
now called self-represented artists and it stemmed from there.
So I always give him a giant kudos on working and
taking the initiative to work with eBay on that categorization.
And I think that really made strides and opened up so
many doors for so many artists.
Yeah, for sure.
Okay. Sonya get nervous.
I have a question for you.
Okay. Are you ready?
I got my seat belt on.
If you were at that spot today where back then it
was EFA putting a couple of pieces up just to see
what would happen if you were there today and I'm thinking
of some of our artists who might be there right now.
What direction would you take today with the platforms that exist?
Oh, you mean with our current social media?
Like what platform?
Like then it was E-bay to try and sell and like
test your product.
Where would you put it today?
I know you can't wait to hear what Sonia's answer is
on this.
It's coming up right after a word from our sponsor.
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for more information.
I've come a long way from eBay.
I know that from there has been other different types of
selling. For instance,
at sea is huge and then,
you know,
it was almost unheard of if somebody had their own website
at that time.
But I developed my own website and started selling,
worked with at one of my developer friends at Adobe to
create a shopping cart for me back when e-commerce was really,
really new.
So at T you think is a good platform to do
the same thing today that you did back then and on
eBay? Yeah.
Well there's a lot of things.
I mean there's WordPress now you can get a WordPress site,
you Can get integration for e-commerce on there.
There's Shopify,
there's a lot of really great plug and play.
Do it yourself sites that will take care of the eCommerce.
I mean,
depending on what you're selling,
could even do a lot of fulfillment for you if you're
at that point.
And if you are,
congratulations. So you can even sell your art on Facebook.
I mean,
you can sell anything anywhere,
right? In the last 20 plus years,
there's been so many great places and ways to sell your
art. A lot of people from eBay went to Etsy because
it was the place to sell your artwork,
your craft,
your supplies from jewelry to crochet to anything.
Yeah, and specifically it was from people who were making something
handmade, right?
Yeah, and since then,
of course we have Pinterest now we have social media,
Facebook, Twitter,
Instagram. All of these things are great,
but I do believe your listeners may beg to differ,
but there's a lot of information overload because I get asked
because of my podcast,
where do I start?
Do I start on Facebook?
Do I get my website done first?
Do I go to Etsy?
Do I create my own Shopify account?
So there's so much data overload.
I would say hone in on one thing that you really
feel really comfortable around.
If you want to do Etsy,
focus on that.
If you want to try Shopify,
focus on that.
Otherwise you're going to drive yourself crazy.
Was this order on Facebook?
Was this order on Etsy?
Was it on Shopify?
Was it through the website,
so if you can hone in and just really narrow it
down to where you're selling and feel good and get really
good at it,
it's hard to get really good at every type of other
type of selling portal out there.
I would agree,
and I don't think there's one right answer really because there's
so much opportunity out there.
So many different things can try one platform.
If it doesn't work,
then go to another.
I'm talking more social media right now,
but for sure everyone should have a website,
whether it's WordPress or you put it on more of a
template driven like a Shopify site or Etsy somewhere that you
call your home and then you drive your social media to
your website so you have both of those.
Right. I guess the point is,
again, this is another place where people can just get stuck
and say,
I'm so confused.
I'm just not going to do anything because what if I
don't pick the right thing and there really is no right
thing. Right.
And when I have someone who reaches out to me because
of the rockstar mentor podcast,
which I'm sure we'll talk about for a little few minutes
afterwards. And so I'll have people ask me,
Hey, I'm getting started.
Where do I start?
And I'll talk to them and we'll kind of drill it
down. Where are you?
Are you selling just original art?
Are you doing prints yet?
Are you creating any retail products?
So when I started doing my website,
I had more than just original art to offer.
I had,
Oh gosh,
in the early two thousands I was doing matted prints.
It was a very small product line at the time.
And so,
you know,
I had,
I don't know,
maybe 25 or 30 products,
whereas now I have about six or 700 products.
But we decided in 2004 to go to art expo international
in New York city.
And I thought,
if I want to do art and I'm going to sell,
I'm going to be a pro.
If you want to play with the big kids,
you got to go to the big kids yard.
And I didn't just go there as a participant.
I thought,
you know what?
If I'm going to spend the money for hotels and airfare,
I'm just going to get a booth and I'm going to
bring my art and I'm gonna make a presence.
And so I did.
I took the gamble and ended up paying off because I
ended up learning a lot.
But I also connected with other people who have art galleries
that were looking for my type of style to be able
to represent me in their galleries.
So was your focus specifically getting into galleries versus stores at
that time or whatever?
What was your thinking there?
I wanted to,
I mean,
I had my small little product line of matted prints of
different sizes.
I had limited edition prints that I had manufactured for me
and I wanted to get into,
I wanted to get in the gallery because I thought maybe
that's going to really give me the big credentials that I
need. But walking away from the show,
I noticed that a lot of bigger artists had art products,
so they had purses or they had sculptures,
they had bigger prints,
they had prints on boxes,
there was just a lot of retail type of things.
So I also had been approached by many licensed companies at
art expo and people saying,
Hey, we love your art.
We think it would look great on mugs and key chains
and textiles.
And so on the plane ride home,
Mark, my husband and I were,
he and I were talking and one of the pieces of
advice I had been given by a good artist friend was
go to the show,
get as many business cards and write everything down on the
back of the business card for that contact as possible and
follow up,
follow up.
So I had this little box,
it's a little plastic box that I had put all the
cards in and I kept that with me cause I thought
this is my gold.
I'm not going to let go of this.
This isn't going on.
Check on,
this isn't going on the seat.
It's going to go in my purse.
So on the way home on the plane,
we were looking at him and I said I got about
seven or eight cards just from license companies.
I must have something that they want.
So we started talking about products and in short Mark and
I decided,
well what kind of product would I use that I would
like? And I loved watches and I thought,
you know,
my art would look great on a watch because I would
wear the watch all the time because that's the thing that
I like.
I want something different and unusual.
So we started looking on creating a whole watch line and
we ended up going into the watch business and I'm not
talking working with somebody who was manufacturing for other people.
This was my watch line.
Mark designed the casing.
Everything for the engraving.
The colors of the bands are based on color swatches that
I actually use.
We found a watch manufacturer overseas who worked with us.
We had the images of the watches printed locally at a
photography company because we wanted to make sure the quality wasn't
going to fade,
it was going to be top quality and it was going
to be the best representation of my artwork to go on
this product.
So it was a multistep process and it took several months,
almost a year,
just to create the first five styles.
And those were not limited edition for that first few that
we created.
So when we went back to art expo in 2005 we
had I think 18 styles at that point,
and it was the head of the show and we were
in a platinum section at art expo and that was luck
in itself.
Oh my gosh,
I'm getting shivers over here.
I know.
So it was a whirlwind.
It was a wild ride.
It was a fulfilling stressful.
I was very proud.
I still am very proud of everything that we've done through
that journey.
But everything has changed.
Art expo isn't like it used to be.
It's not even at the Javits anymore,
but the memories and the experience from all of that,
just coming full circle and having my own galleries and all
that was really cool cause we did ceramics as well and
everything we did,
it was a hefty investment so we didn't have a lot
of print on demand that they have now and I wanted
to create something that was really us.
It wasn't just using a licensing company and getting 5% of
something they're going to get 95% of,
we got a hundred percent of everything and of all of
our efforts to be able to create something that was truly
a Sonya pass branded product.
The thing that resonates to me throughout the whole story here
is that you put yourself in a place and found out
something new and that affected an action that moved you forward.
If you had never been to that first one where you
said you put yourself out in a big way.
Right, right.
You would have never seen and gotten the realization that other
people had products.
You know,
when we're putting things on all of these different pieces that
led to one thing,
then then led to another and a limited edition watch line.
Seriously. Yeah.
Cool. From that we ended up hiring a whole bunch of
reps throughout the country to go to specialty boutiques,
galleries, museum shops and all that.
And well,
you know,
when you're managing reps it's managing well that's a whole different
type of business then.
Yeah, that was,
if anybody's out there thinking about doing it,
call me first.
So boy,
you know,
you're dealing with reps who are dealing with dozens of other
lines and it was really hard to get them to carry
the vision through each and every shop that they would go
to. So the mailing out tons of samples,
answering the questions over and over,
sending out tons of tear sheets.
It was almost like managing employees,
but I don't want to say about worse,
but it was a real hefty task.
Yeah. And to your point,
they're repping a number of different lines.
So how do you know that yours is going to rise
to the top?
They're going to show.
Oh, I remember those days so well yeah.
So as I said,
this could be like three hours long cause I've been million
questions on the product side,
but I don't want to miss out on talking with you
about brand development and marketing and all the gold.
I know you're going to share with us on that end.
Sure. And just to kind of lay the groundwork here,
I loved this with Sonya too because she's got all this
going on as we've heard.
We would all want to be you.
Okay, let's just lay it out and then yet you see
another way of servicing people and helping move things forward.
You can't even call it a pivot because you still have
everything else you've layered on.
But I see this as an opportunity for a lot of
other makers and creators who may be or maybe aren't at
the bigger level like you are,
but it's another opportunity to serve an audience in a field
that you love in the creator feel.
So with that as the groundwork,
Sonya, take it away now and let's talk about the rock
star mentor.
Okay. So when I had my gallery in downtown Campbell and
that was from 2008 through 2012 I got asked this question
often and the question was,
Oh, can I take you out to lunch?
I would love to pick your brain to see how you
market yourself because you've done a fantastic job with your brand.
And I did because my brand was how you feel when
you come in the gallery,
what the smells,
the tastes,
all of that,
all the good stuff that comes along with having an art
gallery. And I was an art gallery where I sold only
my work.
I didn't have time to represent anybody else.
I was working full time to represent myself and to sell
my own products because we had 2300 square feet of complete
Sonya. Oh my gosh.
It had to be so beautiful in there.
It was very impressive With all the color.
I can only imagine.
Yeah. And so there was a brand we had packaging to
create, you know,
had the clocks that were packaged and we had pillows.
We had packaging for the watches,
packaging for all of the jewelry,
and the list goes on.
And so I would get asked all the time and I
would spend time with people and I'd want to help them
out and where are they in their creative journey?
Or I've even had lawyers who said,
Hey, I'm a lawyer,
but I like to paint on the side.
Can I pick your brain?
So I got enough of that.
But I would run into people and later and I would
say, Hey,
how's that going?
How's your art?
Oh, I never had time to do that.
They would say,
because I got really busy,
or my daughter's son never ended up pursuing it because blah,
blah, blah,
whatever reason.
And I would think,
okay, and I'll be really blunt here.
I would think,
okay, you totally squeezed my brain for two and a half
hours and you did nothing with it.
So that really opened up an opportunity for me to start
doing art marketing workshops at the gallery.
And that was really great.
I would do those about three times a year and we'd
get a nice crowd.
I'd prepare materials for everyone.
We'd have Q and a.
Mark would talk about the product end of things and it
was about a three hour workshop at the gallery.
That was fine and dandy for the people that were local,
but it really didn't have that really wasn't good or useful
for anybody that was outside of the area.
Were you charging for that?
Yes. And so you were also building a curriculum also,
you were seeing what was working too in the workshops Right
at the time we called it get in the game and
it was called the gorilla art marketing experience.
I know it's kind of,
I look back and think,
Oh God,
but at the time it was a great name.
Sure. You know gorilla marketing.
Get out there,
do it,
do it.
Get out there,
get out there,
do it yourself.
Be brave.
Be tenacious.
Don't be afraid.
You're not going to learn this by getting an MBA at
Harvard. This is putting on the hip waders and jump in
the trenches of really just getting out there and doing it
on your own.
So that's how that name came on.
And then after we closed the gallery,
I sort of transitioned back to studio by appointment and then
we ended up moving out of the area.
So podcasts,
I know they've been around for a long time,
but I started doing rock star mentor podcast in 2016 so
about a little over two and a half years old and
110 episodes.
I created it because one,
I wanted to overcome some fears that I had and that
was being on video and listening to myself on audio.
Those were two things I could not stand.
I couldn't stand watching myself on video and I could not
stand listening to myself on audio.
So I thought,
I gotta get over this.
I have a voice and I have ideas and I have
experienced that I want others to know about.
I want them to know what to expect and how to
network and how to get it out there,
how to be fearless.
And there's just a whole variety of things that I wanted
to put out there because I didn't have those cool tools
when I was starting out.
And it was almost taboo to ask anybody in the highfalutin
art industry questions,
you couldn't ask questions,
you know,
who do I call?
How do I start a website?
Where do I buy these frames?
You know,
how do I establish a retail or wholesale account,
that type of thing.
It was almost a hush hush.
Oh you know,
you're asking me that question.
Well it's not rocket science.
You're going to figure it out eventually cause everybody does.
But I've provided resources and ideas and ways and confidence for
others to be able to do that without feeling bad or
hindered or embarrassed.
So I created the podcast essentially to help people get over
the hump of not doing it,
saying that they're going to do it and constantly saying they're
going to do it.
Cause I know a lot of artists who say,
yeah, yeah,
I'm going to do this or I'm going to do that
and here they are five years later and not moving in
that direction.
I totally get it.
It's heartbreaking because I run into the same people.
I didn't have a workshop like you do,
but I have a trade show booth and people come up
and a lot of listeners already know my story.
I'm not going to say it there,
but I'm seeing the same thing that they're afraid to start
because they don't know what to do.
And they're afraid of failing right off the bat.
And I really want to say to everybody,
you're going to fail off the bat,
but don't look at it as failing.
Look at it as an experiment so that you can get
into the groove and find what's really gonna work now when
you started.
Cause I think I still see it even sadly today and
my motivation behind my shows just the same as yours.
You know,
we want people to get started so that they aren't 30
years down the road here with regrets saying what if,
you know,
if only I would've put my fear or my ego or
whatever it is that's holding them back aside,
what if I would have done that?
And so I think by showing other people's stories,
even people who have had such great successes,
you, if you break it down to the steps that you
took apart from that watch part Mark from that watch because
that's a little crazy.
But a lot of these steps don't seem to be too
hard. It's just a matter of getting out and starting,
right. And asking questions.
Cause there's people in different facets of business,
whether it's creating products,
doing websites,
doing SEO,
creating different types of products or teaching you how to use
their equipment to make a product.
They're in business.
They want to be asked questions.
So don't be afraid to reach out and say,
Hey, can you help me with this?
I mean,
I ask questions all the time and my father always said,
a person who doesn't ask questions doesn't want to be smart.
Yeah. You have to ask.
And you know,
Sue, like what you said is if you were running,
I mean everybody,
I'm sure every listener here in the history of podcasts or
the world has fallen down to scrape their knee.
It's not going to hinder you from walking again,
is it?
So everyone's going to fail in some capacity.
Some are bigger fails and smaller fails,
but don't use that as a way to say,
well I've done that.
I failed and I'm just going to stop.
No, it should teach you that you can move forward and
get it right and not think of it as bad failure
because failure is only going to make your success a lot
stronger. Yeah.
I mean your ego might get bruised,
but that's okay.
Oh yeah.
Yeah. If I was to stop doing what I'm doing because
of ego or mean people,
namely mr editor,
that the book editor,
right. I would not have been able to experience what I've
experienced. Well,
and here's the sad thing about that.
We wouldn't have your beautiful art.
I mean to say that truly,
cause you've seen,
no, I really am.
Because you see how many people love it,
right? From all the sightings all around.
That wouldn't be here.
And I say that as a compliment to you,
but I also say that for our listeners because what are
you creating that you're keeping from all of us by not
getting your knee bruised a little bit,
and I really,
really honestly do mean that.
The other thing,
I'm starting to have this as a common theme because I
think it's really important is that because so many people won't
do it,
if you push past those problems,
you try something,
it doesn't work,
but you keep going.
Every time you do that,
you overcome another hurdle or whatever it is.
People fall by the wayside,
so the road gets easier.
There's less people there because you've learned something,
you've moved to a different level,
there's people,
you encounter a problem,
you figure it out,
you cross the hurdle.
Other people fall off the playing field,
I guess I'll say keeps getting smaller and smaller in terms
of the number of people that are there.
Right. And that's,
you know,
with anything,
with any kind of job or life experience,
you're going to have,
people will fall off and that's,
they got to,
I guess they have to account for that.
But for the folks who I know who I network with,
who have businesses and all a variety of business,
realtors, mortgage people,
chiropractors, you know,
whatever. I mean,
Sean Pirlo,
who was in your recent podcast,
she's in my networking group and we trade ideas and we
support one another.
You have to support your fellow business person.
I used to know someone who was held tight and we're
talking late eighties she held tight to her sources.
You know,
I'm not gonna tell you where I buy my wreaths,
sir. I'm not going to tell you where I buy my
cake, baking supplies,
whatever. You know that stuff.
It's not a hidden fake,
right. You just have to sometimes take the time.
And now that we have the internet,
the beautiful thing of our online presence and internet and everything
that you can locate just about anything,
anywhere. Absolutely.
And you can get support.
Facebook groups are a great place for support.
Absolutely. And one of my early episodes on the podcast,
I had someone write in and say,
I don't have a networking group in my area.
What do you suggest?
And I told her,
go start your own.
If you want to have your own artist group start in
your community,
go to meet ups,
start getting around people who are artists or even independent business
owners and create your own group.
There's no rule that says you can't,
so more power to you and make it happen.
Absolutely. And I love your podcast because you have all the
different stories and people who tell their story and I want
to just add to listeners listening to any podcast,
yours, mine,
anything out there that they feel inspired or whatever is when
you're communicating with other people in business,
listen to what they're telling you.
Listen to their story because you will find so much inspiration
in the words from other people who have,
you know,
scraped their knees and got up and kept running and it's
all good.
Yeah. I think even when it's outside of our industry,
you almost listen with a different angle.
And I think you pick up things that if it's in
your same industry,
you might miss.
Right. So I almost feel there's more value when it's not
your, you almost feel like,
like if you're a Baker and you're listening to another Baker,
you already know a lot about that industry,
but someone who's a Baker who's listening in here that hear
it in a different way just because it's applied to a
different type of making,
if you will.
Correct. Yeah.
Could really,
really resonate with them where it wouldn't have otherwise.
Absolutely. Sonya,
I now want to invite you to dare to dream.
Okay. I'd like to present you with a virtual gift.
It's a magical box containing unlimited possibilities for your future.
Not everybody else that you're helping along,
but yours.
This is your dream or your goal of almost unreachable Heights
that you would wish to obtain.
Please accept this gift and open it in our presence.
What's inside your box?
So my box,
I would have to say,
Sue, that it is just continuing helping other creative people and
he's buddy in a small business flourish in their vision.
I love it when people ask me for advice and questions
or they connect with me to want to have a path
to help them move forward because they're hindered by self doubt
or the imposter syndrome.
I will be your superhero to help you move forward and
just get it out there and make your brand better.
Love it.
Absolutely love it.
So most people only get one,
but I'm giving you two.
Where could people come and connect with you for two different
things? First,
let's go with your beautiful art and everything that's there.
If someone wants to get a look at everything and see
what's available,
where would you direct them?
Okay, so my website is Sonya,
pass.com it's S O N Y a P a z.com.
That's my sole website for my art and you can see
all the retail products on there as well as some original
works and I have a blog on there,
which is interesting.
It's not been updated recently,
but it's really interesting.
I heard how you started to get a little quieter with
that statement.
You can take that.
No, it was funny.
It hasn't been updated.
I can raise my hand to that too,
but you're doing a podcast,
so of course.
Okay, super.
And then what about for the mentoring and the podcast and
all? Where would someone go for that?
Sure. My website for the podcast is rockstar mentor.com
it's rockstar and mentor together.com
and you can reach me there.
You can also find the podcast on my website as well
as iTunes on Apple,
Stitcher radio,
Google play and tune in or wherever you listen to your
podcasts. But I also have a player on the website.
If you go to rockstar,
mentor.com and go up under podcasts,
you'll see the player there or if you're a reader and
not much of a listener,
then you can always get the show notes under the blog
show notes section on the website.
Beautiful, perfect,
perfect. It's so nice now that the podcasts are so many
different places with them,
so many places because it gives an opportunity for everybody where
they feel the most comfortable to be.
Sure. So that is wonderful.
I cannot tell you how much I appreciate your being.
On the show.
I had no clue about your story and no surprise cause
you're so successful,
but no surprise that there were so many best practices that
you follow all the way along.
Give biz listeners,
you've got to see her art.
You absolutely have to see it.
It's beautiful.
It will put a smile on your face.
You've got to listen to her podcast.
You can tell more.
The goodness that she shared here is all over that show.
I am quite sure.
Sonia, thank you so much.
I really,
really appreciate you taking the time and sharing with my listeners
today. Thank you Sue.
This has been such a treat and an honor to be
on your podcast show today and I really,
really appreciate your reaching out and connecting with me.
Wonderful and you know we'll stay in touch.
Absolutely cause you're going to be on my show sooner than
later. Oh yay.
Bye for now.
Take care.
Bye. Bye.
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