Welcome back to Heroes Behind the Badge.

This is part two of our conversation with crime data expert Len Sipes

about the hidden reality behind America's crime statistics.

In part one, we learned about the shocking 44% increase in violent

crime revealed by the National Crime Victimization Survey data that

most Americans never heard about.

Today we're exploring the real world consequences of this statistical

manipulation from Baltimore's crime crisis to the debate over federal

intervention in high crime cities.

We're examining how incomplete data leads to dangerous policy decisions.

We'll also discuss why the media isn't reporting the complete picture,

the role of politics in crime reporting, and what this means for

the safety of American families.

This isn't just about numbers.

It's about a human cost of misleading statistics and the brave law enforcement

officers trying to protect communities with their hands tied behind their backs.

Let's continue our conversation with Len.

So, so here's a great example of what we're talking about.

So, president Trump has threatened to send in the, the feds to

Baltimore, Maryland, right?

Mm-hmm.

Um.

The governor of Maryland, the mayor of Baltimore, uh, so many of the liberals are

saying, well, that, that's unnecessary.

Baltimore is, is the rate of crime in Baltimore is going down.

It's safe.

It's a safe city.

We don't need your help.

I look at the top 10 US cities by homicide rate that, that you sent me.

Baltimore fourth in the country.

Yeah.

Uh, the highest rate of homicides of any city Right.

In America, top US cities, uh, by violent crime rate.

Okay.

Not just homicides, but violent crime, Baltimore moves up to number three.

Mm-hmm.

The third highest crime rate, violent crime rate in the country.

Yeah.

So for, for Maryland's governor, for, uh, Baltimore's mayor to say

that Baltimore is a safe city.

Uh, they, they really don't understand, uh, what they're talking about.

Is that fair to say?

Um,

I look, when we are talking about sending the National

Guard into a city, um, you know, my 50 years in the criminal justice

system basically says we've never done that before except for riots.

Um, using them in terms of day-to-day crime is something that is a radical move

that makes people feel uncomfortable.

I mean, I, I, I, look, one of the things that I do in terms of my writing

is that I understand, and I think you all understand too, there are more

independents in this country than there are Republicans or Democrats individually.

Okay, so I am in my writings, I'm trying to be fair.

I'm trying to, uh, get people to wanna be, because if reporters who see my stuff

and read my stuff and are influenced by my stuff, if I just come out and say,

president Trump, is a is right, and, and, um, you know, we should be going in with

the National Guard, with every city, they would not pay attention to what I write.

So this is a radical development on the part of the president.

Will it work?

Only the courts are going to be able to tell us, and, and, and time will be able

to tell us if this is going to work.

The early findings on the part of Washington D.C. um, is that it is working.

It is dramatically reducing crime.

Should we do it in other cities?

Well, I can guarantee you that there are advisors to President Trump based.

Basically begging him not to send the National Guard into other cities.

Washington D.C. is a unique city.

It's the nation's capital.

Um, but do you really want to have these huge protests, um, in these other cities?

Are there different ways of doing it?

And I think President Trump is basically sending a message to the rest of the

country, basically saying, you better get your act together in terms of violent

crime in your city, or I'm gonna come in with a National Guard and I'm gonna

come in with additional federal agents.

I think he's using this as a warning to other cities.

Uh, will he do it in other cities?

I don't know.

Um, I don't have a clue as to what's going happen in terms of other

cities, but I think the president is basically warning other people and

through media reports, other cities are beginning to take this seriously.

Other cities are beginning to say, Hey, you know what?

Maybe they should come to my city, maybe.

Well, you know, it's the, it's in our city.

It's the omnipresence of the police, right?

I mean, we've heard that term used forever.

If the police are out there, you see 'em, you're less inclined to commit a crime.

I'm sure that's what's happening there in Washington D.C. Yeah, and

probably with the National Guard and the Feds that have come in there,

they're augmenting the locals, they're probably put together a task force.

They're doubling up in cars or tripling up in cars, whatever they're

doing, and they're able to go out there and  proactively arrest people

on warrants and go after the drug dealers and all the other lowlifes

that are committing the crimes.

You know, the thing of it is though, is you're talking about

politics and it's, and it's crazy.

And, and you know, during my career when, when, when I was working and

we, I, I, I ran a unit, we made six to 8,000 arrests per year.

Very mm-hmm.

Very proactive unit.

Uh, Craig knows about it.

I mean, the unit was even recognized in Washington, D.C. as one of the

most proactive police units in the country and being proactive

makes a massive difference.

Well, once that unit I had left and once that unit kind of got disbanded and

reorganized, the amount of violent crime and homicides went up exponentially.

Mm-hmm.

And you know, when you make those kind of political decisions, who's

talking about the fact that this mayor, or this governor, or whoever

it may be that's made those decisions just cost somebody their life.

How many people are dead now because of making those decisions?

So the whole National Guard thing for me is like, look at Chicago.

I, I saw these people interviewed in Chicago.

They're begging for the National Guard.

They can't even go and sit in their driveway, in their car and not worried

about getting jacked or, or, or shot.

So why not put 'em in there?

I, I think it's just a liberal democratic fighting point.

You know, if Trump were to cure cancer.

He'll be an idiot, you know?

Yeah.

And so they're, they're trying to fight him tooth and nail to the

extent that that ultimately could cost a lot of people's lives.

You go through Washington, D.C. uh, and there are sections

of Washington D.C. where there are bars on every door and every window.

Um, I've been throughout the country, courtesy of the federal government into

high crime areas, and I've never been in a high crime area in my entire life

where somebody said, you know what?

This is fine.

We're cool with this, right?

Uh, you know, um, you know, I, I've never encountered anybody, whether it be

law enforcement or average citizens or community leaders, say, yeah, we're in a

high crime area, but we really don't care.

Um, so you know what we're trying, I look at this as a human rights issue.

I look at this as a human rights issue and you know, we talk about colleges

being liberal, places with liberal faults.

When I went to college, um, I was taught that this is a human rights issue.

That crime affects school scores, economies, jobs, um, the psychological

development of younger people.

That crime is insidious.

It affects every part of every city in the United States in a very detrimental way.

So if you want Baltimore to prosper, if you want D.C. to prosper, if you want

any other city to prosper, you have to be able to control crime and, and, and, and

unless you're willing to control crime, you were throwing everybody in that area

under the bus, economically, socially, um, from a jobs point of view, from school

scores to the psychological development of children, it affects everything.

So, you know, from my studies, um, before going to the, uh, Department of Justice,

um, it was, you know, really profound that this is a, this is something that, that

we all need to work on together to make sure that the average person living in

the average city in the United States has the right to feel safe in their own homes.

Go to D.C., look at all the bars.

On the doors and windows, don't they have a right to feel safe?

So having said that, and based on your research, why is it the

Democrats are always fighting and so opposed to law enforcement and forcing

the law, putting people in jail, and making people safe in this country.

I'm gonna try to stay away from politics, um, because

again, I've worked with progressives all throughout my career.

Um, I have the independence in mind.

Whatever it is that I say or write, I'm not quite sure it's Democrats.

But at the same time, if you take a look at the data in terms of democratic

opinion versus Republican opinion versus white, black, income, you know, you're

gonna find variances, um, uh, in, in every survey, depending upon the group.

Um, so yes, Republicans are probably much harder, uh, and, and much more

supportive of law enforcement and proactive policing than Democrats.

Uh, but to say that all Democrats are against proactive policing and all

Democrats are not supportive of, of making sure that criminals are held accountable,

i, I, I just feel uncomfortable with that.

I,

yeah, fair, fair enough.

And I'm not saying all of them, it just seems like it's quite a few of them.

Yeah.

There, I mean.

I've worked with them over the course of years, and I've been in heated arguments

with them throughout the course of years.

Um, I just did an article about, there was a, um, survey warning Democrats

to stop being stupid on crime.

Um, it's on my website, CrimeInAmerica.net, it's, uh, I

think it's, uh, last week's article.

Basically, you have think tank, a democratic think tank that

is coming along and saying to progressives, you know, you've gotta

stop saying what you're saying.

The, you know, you know, criminals aren't clients, they're criminals.

Um, people returning from prison or inmates coming out of prison,

they're not returning citizens.

Um, you know, that you're shooting yourself in the foot, um, by

the words that you're using.

Um, so, you know, there are conservative democrats, uh, who probably believe in

everything that we're talking about now.

Um, but, uh, progressives, uh, you know, I even the Democratic party

is taking them to the woodshed.

There were huge fights during the Biden administration of the really

far left Progressives trying to change his, um, policies in terms of crime

and Biden's advisors were furious with these people for trying to

push um, Joe Biden far to the left.

Um, Joe Biden, when he was running um, did say per the American Civil Liberties

Union, uh, that he wanted to release 50% of the prison population, uh.

Now this is Joe Biden has a long history of being tough on crime.

So now we have Joe Biden, candidate Biden saying he wants to release

50% of the prison population.

Well, 66% of males in the United States in prison are there for violent crimes.

If you take a look at their criminal history, it's probably closer to 80%.

If you take a look at, um, federal data on terms of recidivism, violent offenders

have the highest rate of recidivism.

So, you know, Biden was actively trying to state as part of a campaign promise

that he was willing to release hundreds of thousands of violent criminals.

Now, that to me is absolutely insane.

But you, you have, um.

Well, the raging Cajun, who's, what's his name, um, slips my mind at the moment.

Who was the advisor to Clinton, basically saying defund the police was.

Talking about James, James CarVal.

James CarVal.

Thank you.

Yeah, CarVal.

Thank you.

Yeah.

Then the three stupidest words in English language were defund the

police fund the police, and they did so much damage to Democrats.

They said, we can never get rid of the stench of it.

Right.

So within the Democratic party, you, there is a war, literally a war going on

internally, basically telling progressives you, you really do need to rethink what it

is you're saying and how you're saying it.

Yeah.

You know, I wanna track back to something you said, uh, Len,

I thought was very important.

You, you made a very interesting statement.

People have the right to feel safe.

People have the right to feel safe.

But here, let me try to blend that into something else you've already said too,

that because of the un the incorrect or incomplete reporting of crime statistics,

there is the, the, some government officials are trying to make us feel safe

by pointing to the erroneous figures.

So until we actually get the media and you're a media relations expert, okay,

I'd love your opinion on how do we get the media to start covering the whole picture?

The, the well, the media.

How do I, how do I say this?

Throughout my career, uh, I've done thousands and thousands of interviews at

the national level, at the regional level, at the local level, and you had crime

reporters who made my life miserable, uh, but they knew the criminal justice system.

They knew crime statistics.

They knew crime statistics better than I knew crime statistics.

They invested a lot of their time and a lot of their energy.

And even though they made my life very difficult at times, um, they

were fair and they were the ones who stopped papers or, or television

networks from reporting stupid stuff.

They're no longer with us.

The number of reporters who have vanished, um, over the course of the last 10

years runs into the tons of thousands.

The really good crime reporters who kept their own network and kept their own

newspaper in check are no longer there.

So, you know, the person talking about crime today, will

tomorrow talk about a fire?

The, the next day they'll talk about traffic problems.

Uh, they don't have the background within the criminal justice system.

So again, I. If I had the response, what the hell is the National

Crime Victimization Survey?

If I had a dollar for every time, so a reporter said that to me, um, I wouldn't,

you know, I could buy another truck.

I could buy a new truck.

I mean, it, it's, it's just ridiculous as to how few people know what's going on

in terms of crime in this country from a statistical and a research point of view.

I have two last questions.

Um, one is, and it shifts gears a bit, but how does the U.S. uh, crime

rate compare to other countries?

I'd like to think that we have the best law enforcement

force anywhere in the world.

Um, I have faith in our criminal justice system to an extent, um,

comparing it to other countries.

But what are the, what does the data tell us?

Uh, is the US safer than other countries or are we one of the worst?

Okay.

No, we have Gallup, um, and Gallup basically measures, um, fear of crime,

perceptions of crime throughout the world.

And we are not even close to being one of the most dangerous countries in the world.

Not even close.

I mean, we've got Central America.

Um.

South America, um, South Africa, um, you know, they're

blowing up in terms of crime.

Uh, the situation in terms of Mexico and, and the other countries that

I just mentioned, uh, far outstrip what's going on in the United States.

Now when it comes down to trust in law enforcement.

Let me be clear, um, they, they said North American law

enforcement, which includes Canada.

That the highest rated, most trusted law enforcement agencies in the country

are from North America and being we far outstrip in terms of population,

um, uh, compared to Canada, that means they're talking about the United States.

The research in terms of the support of law enforcement, it doesn't, regardless

of your demographics, the vast majority of Americans support law enforcement.

The vast majority of Americans support law enforcement and one law

enforcement in their communities.

There are differences based upon race, income, where you live, blah, blah, blah.

Um, so law enforcement receives a lot of support from the United States.

And so summarize, you know, we are the highest rated, uh, law enforcement

in, in the world as far as I'm concerned, and we're certainly don't

even, we don't even come close to being the most dangerous country.

That reinforces my view of law enforcement in America.

The, the best in the world, the best historically in the world.

Mm-hmm.

And, um, you know, if we had more cops and if we give them the resources they

need to do their job, uh, I, I think this country's gonna be in really good shape.

And that's what we're striving for at Citizens Behind the Badge.

Give our law enforcement officers the resources they need to

keep America safe and give them the respect that they deserve.

The appreciation, the thanks so that they continue to wanna go out and

risk their lives for our safety.

Last question I had, um, I, I've been reading this from

you for a couple years now.

I think you've reported that there are 120 million porch

package thefts in this country.

And, and I know all of us are getting deliveries every day from

Amazon and, uh, UPS, et cetera.

Um, that's a staggering statistic.

Sure is.

Do I have that right?

120 million packages stolen every.

Well, yeah, but it gets, again, it gets down to crime

statistics and it would take hours to to, to fully address everything.

But if you take a look at porch Pirates, if you take a look at the

FBI's latest data in terms of losses, um, from, um, identity theft, which

are up 33%, the, the losses are up 33%.

Uh, if you take a look at a variety of indices um, cargo theft comes

to mind, shoplifting comes to mind retail theft comes to mind.

They're all up dramatically yet you take a look at the FBI's violent

crime report, they're all down.

So, so, so, again, you, you, you, there's, there's, you know, I could

go on endlessly about this stuff.

Um, my, my concern is, is that we have politicians who are using the crime drop.

And, and by the way, this is something that I've been saying to my friends in,

in law enforcement and law enforcement organizations, uh, there are people

out there who are trying to make the case, look you're way down in law

enforcement, yet crimes are plummeting.

So cops don't mean anything.

Um, cops are irrelevant.

And I've been trying to say we need to be very proactive on the part of

the organizations that represent law enforcement to make sure that they

understand the statistics, uh, the point that you're trying to make it's

completely irrelevant um, based upon a wide variety of data, but yet that's

the point that they're trying to make.

So not only is this an attack on crime statistics, it's it's an attack

on law enforcement across the board.

That's why I go back constantly to the National Academy of Sciences report.

Um, basically saying it's the only modality we have, um, in terms of

reducing crime in the United States.

And so the data is with me, but nobody seems to understand the data.

The data's got to be out there for it to

have an effect, doesn't it?

You, you had some, uh, in closing, I wanna ask you a couple questions.

Uh, uh, number one, CrimeInAmerica.net, that is how we find you, right, Len?

Yes.

Crime in america.net.

And if somebody wants to reach out and get in touch with you Uh,

they can get it through that website.

They can get My email address is on the, the about page on my website.

Okay.

So the about page will bring you to Len.

Right.

I wanna ask you about, you said there are some very clear statistics about

uh, what is it when crime goes down?

It's pro the proactivity of the police.

Did I hear you say that right?

Yeah.

I mean, you know, so, so you have the mayors of Chicago and

Baltimore basically, uh, dismissing the law enforcement activities.

They're basically saying social programs and violence interrupters.

There's no data whatsoever to support that.

Now that's, I'm not saying don't do violence interrupters, of course, I'm

not saying don't do social programs.

There's no data on it.

I'm simply saying that at the moment, in terms of good, solid research, it's been

replicated, um, and put into other cities, um, to prove it, that doesn't exist.

And so, but there are stats on the other side

saying that proactive police is the reason when crime is reduced,

there are stats for that, correct?

Yes.

Um, but you know, now the authors will basically say that it, it, it reduces

crime we're not quite sure how much by how much that becomes the caveat.

But big picture, it reduces crime.

Yeah.

And, and it's the only modality that we have at the moment.

That says it reduces crime.

That's.

Well, it isn't it almost common sense, like if you're a toddler, if

you're a child and you know that if you do something, you're going to get disciplined

for it, eventually you stop doing it.

Yes.

I mean, normally, uh, if you don't get caught, you just keep doing it.

It's kind of like you're empowered to continue to do that, that

that starts from childhood.

If you're a criminal, if you're some low life scumbag and you're out

there doing your thing and nobody's ever arresting you, or there's no

proactive activity and you're not getting locked up, you're empowered.

You just keep doing it and doing it and doing it.

It, it's, it's, you take it a look at recidivism,

statistics, they're through the roof.

Over the course of a 10 year period, I'm, I'm now going to guess it's

about 85% coming back to the criminal justice system through an arrest

and it's about 60% re-incarcerated.

Um, these are people coming out of the prison system.

The parole and probation statistics are rather old, but it's still

around 40% for in terms of parole and probation, higher, depending upon

the other things that you look at.

We have a problem of non accountability.

Um, you know, the, the, the Department of Justice documents all this stuff

about millions of crimes being committed by people who have gone

to prison, millions of crimes.

Um, this stuff is well documented again by the Bureau of Justice Statistics.

Um, so we have a problem.

We have a problem in terms of making sure that people are held uh, accountable.

Yes.

Uh, in terms of the tragic stabbing of, of the, a lady, a young lady from

Ukraine, that's just another example, um, of, of the system out of hand.

Where there are 15 arrests and I, and I think it was, uh, Paul, who, uh,

suggested that, uh, you know, it's not 15, it's just the 15 he's been called for.

That's right.

Yeah.

Len Sipes, you have been very, very generous, uh, with your time and

most importantly, your expertise.

Uh, we have not had a guest like you on this podcast.

We should do this more often.

Oh, I, I'd love to do it.

This is really at the heart of the problem.

I think it, it's the way the information is being uh, managed the way it's being

disseminated and unfortunately, just like we do in Heroes Behind the Badge and

Citizens Behind the Badge, it's incorrect and we're here to help correct that.

And you are a big part of that today.

Thank you.

We need to support law enforcement.

We need to understand that the overwhelming majority of the men

and the women in law enforcement are decent human beings who just want to

go home at the end of their shift.

Absolutely.

And, and, and until we come to that conclusion, until we understand that our

support of law enforcement is absolutely crucial, and I would not be saying this

if I didn't believe it, um, it, it's the average American agrees with me in terms

of how they feel about law enforcement.

Law enforcement themselves, the individual police officers need to

understand that the average person in this country is staunchly behind them.

Yeah, so there are detractors.

The detractors will always be there always, but law enforcement

is supported and it's, they're supported for a good reason.

Which is a good segue to our audience,

to our listeners and viewers.

A reminder that the Heroes Behind the Badge podcast that you just

listened to with Len Sipes is brought to you by Citizens Behind the Badge.

Dot org.

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You can reach us at CitizensBehindTheBadge.org.

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If you like something that Len said, and boy he gave us a lot to

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family and you'll get to know first when new episodes release, and we

already are planning new episodes.

Even, I know as good as this is, we're gonna try to get somebody as good

or better than Len on here for you.

So again, we're signing off for this edition of Heroes Behind the Badge on

behalf of uh, Billy Erfurth and Craig Floyd, this is Dennis Collins saying

we'll see you next time and thanks, Len.

My pleasure.