1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:03,690 Every one of us that starts a business, we have this vision, 2 00:00:03,900 --> 00:00:08,340 this creative vision of doing something important and 3 00:00:08,340 --> 00:00:11,910 providing a service or providing meaning. 4 00:00:11,910 --> 00:00:15,600 And sometimes as companies grow, they lose sight of that. 5 00:00:27,810 --> 00:00:31,920 Well, hello and welcome to another edition of the E-Commerce Evolution podcast. 6 00:00:32,190 --> 00:00:35,130 I'm your host, Brett Curry, CEO of OMG Commerce. 7 00:00:35,130 --> 00:00:39,990 And today I have two very special guests. 8 00:00:40,200 --> 00:00:43,650 We got female co-founders of Ascend. 9 00:00:44,040 --> 00:00:48,690 And when I say that these two are legends in the e-comm and D two C 10 00:00:48,690 --> 00:00:51,930 space, I'm not exaggerating, they've done some amazing things, 11 00:00:51,930 --> 00:00:55,140 worked with some amazing brands you're going to hear about in just a minute. 12 00:00:55,140 --> 00:00:58,860 But we've got Mickey Winter, the CEO of Ascend, 13 00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:02,550 and Carrie Weidenbach, the COO of Ascend, 14 00:01:02,550 --> 00:01:06,960 and they focus on working with purpose-driven 15 00:01:07,050 --> 00:01:10,920 e-com brands and creating solutions for them. 16 00:01:10,920 --> 00:01:13,710 And so we're talking about today is one, 17 00:01:13,710 --> 00:01:16,680 how can you remain purpose-driven in a time of uncertainty? 18 00:01:16,680 --> 00:01:17,970 So when there's margin pressure, 19 00:01:17,970 --> 00:01:21,840 which there has been in our space for some time at the time of this recording, 20 00:01:21,840 --> 00:01:26,700 there's tariff chaos in the industry that no one knows exactly what to 21 00:01:26,700 --> 00:01:30,120 do with. And so when there's times of uncertainty or change or chaos, 22 00:01:30,330 --> 00:01:33,420 how do you stay purpose-driven in that? 23 00:01:33,480 --> 00:01:38,460 And then we're going to look at what they call the maturity matrix and see where 24 00:01:38,460 --> 00:01:42,540 you are as a brand on that matrix and how you can get to the next level. 25 00:01:42,540 --> 00:01:45,840 And so with that, Mickey, Carrie, 26 00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:47,760 welcome to the show and how's it going? 27 00:01:48,600 --> 00:01:49,530 Thanks for having us, Brett. 28 00:01:49,980 --> 00:01:54,480 We really appreciate taking this time to talk with you today. 29 00:01:55,380 --> 00:01:57,060 Absolutely, absolutely. 30 00:01:57,060 --> 00:02:00,090 And it's one of those things we connected because Carrie, you and I go way back, 31 00:02:00,090 --> 00:02:04,800 Mickey, we've met more recently, but Carrie and I go way, way back. In fact, 32 00:02:04,800 --> 00:02:06,510 I think it'd be interesting to note, Carrie, 33 00:02:06,510 --> 00:02:08,580 when did we first start working together through Classical Lama? 34 00:02:08,580 --> 00:02:12,330 That was like 2011 or something like that, maybe 12. 35 00:02:12,370 --> 00:02:13,690 I dunno this forever ago. 36 00:02:13,790 --> 00:02:17,650 It's definitely over 10 years ago, over a decade. 37 00:02:17,820 --> 00:02:21,360 And we've done a ton of exciting projects together. 38 00:02:21,840 --> 00:02:25,170 But let's dive into this tariff conversation. 39 00:02:25,170 --> 00:02:26,003 Because. 40 00:02:27,060 --> 00:02:31,980 People have to be nimble and quick and adjust to this. 41 00:02:31,980 --> 00:02:36,780 And what we're seeing across the board is if you have 42 00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:40,950 a strong foundation in your values, in your purpose, 43 00:02:41,460 --> 00:02:45,930 you can really weather this storm of tariffs. 44 00:02:46,290 --> 00:02:49,920 So we look at brands like Allbirds, 45 00:02:52,410 --> 00:02:57,210 they build sustainably for their shoes and they have 46 00:02:57,210 --> 00:03:00,910 their resourcing based on that, their suppliers based on that. 47 00:03:00,910 --> 00:03:05,320 They have a diverse supply chain based on the sustainability. And so 48 00:03:07,090 --> 00:03:11,860 they can adjust and refocus their supply base. 49 00:03:11,860 --> 00:03:16,390 So I would say that's your number one strategy is having a 50 00:03:16,420 --> 00:03:18,880 diversified supply base divers. 51 00:03:18,940 --> 00:03:21,760 So you're not just dependent on China. 52 00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:26,230 Brazil is a really appealing country to do work with. 53 00:03:26,590 --> 00:03:29,830 That's what All Birds has as an alternative. 54 00:03:29,830 --> 00:03:34,660 And so they're just shifting more of their supply base to Brazil. 55 00:03:36,040 --> 00:03:36,430 Yeah, 56 00:03:36,430 --> 00:03:39,940 we're hearing that from a number of brands and the brands that are in better 57 00:03:39,940 --> 00:03:44,320 shape now than others are those that have been working on diversifying the 58 00:03:44,320 --> 00:03:45,190 supply chain, 59 00:03:45,520 --> 00:03:49,120 not something you can just kind of snap the fingers and get a new factory or a 60 00:03:49,120 --> 00:03:52,450 new group making your stuff in another country. 61 00:03:52,510 --> 00:03:55,600 So those that had the foresight and we're like, Hey, see this coming. 62 00:03:55,600 --> 00:03:59,560 We've heard of some that have pre-purchased inventory for the year that was a 63 00:03:59,560 --> 00:04:01,810 winner. I've talked to a brand today that did that. 64 00:04:01,810 --> 00:04:05,350 So they've locked in their pricing, gather, got everything imported. 65 00:04:05,350 --> 00:04:06,183 Not everybody can do that. 66 00:04:07,300 --> 00:04:10,300 But then others have worked to diversify the supply chain, 67 00:04:10,300 --> 00:04:13,420 which makes a ton of sense. Do you think there's, 68 00:04:13,840 --> 00:04:16,360 and we would love if you have a point on that as well, Mickey, 69 00:04:16,360 --> 00:04:19,150 but is there something also about being, well, 70 00:04:19,150 --> 00:04:23,560 let's maybe step back and define what does it mean to be purpose driven or 71 00:04:23,560 --> 00:04:27,070 mission driven and give some examples. You want to tackle that one, Mickey? 72 00:04:27,070 --> 00:04:27,490 Sure. 73 00:04:27,490 --> 00:04:28,323 Sure. 74 00:04:29,110 --> 00:04:33,760 So it's taking your values as a brand and using that as 75 00:04:33,760 --> 00:04:37,600 your north star when it comes to making decisions. 76 00:04:38,620 --> 00:04:43,450 It helps to create this pathway that 77 00:04:44,670 --> 00:04:48,910 you can balance and take trade-offs on when you're 78 00:04:48,910 --> 00:04:52,360 consistently looking at what your ultimate purpose is, 79 00:04:52,360 --> 00:04:57,280 be it being a sustainable brand. Being a brand who, 80 00:04:58,870 --> 00:05:02,260 one of the brands that I've worked with in the past Garden of Life is 81 00:05:02,380 --> 00:05:05,590 supplements. So thinking about them, 82 00:05:06,070 --> 00:05:10,300 they focus on creating supplements that are fully 83 00:05:10,300 --> 00:05:15,040 organic made with Whole Foods and sticking to that 84 00:05:15,040 --> 00:05:18,100 as their base mission and not veering from it. 85 00:05:18,100 --> 00:05:22,120 Because ultimately what it's going to do is create this 86 00:05:22,300 --> 00:05:25,750 strong connection with their customer base. 87 00:05:26,410 --> 00:05:29,410 And the customer base can trust that they will consistently 88 00:05:31,090 --> 00:05:35,020 follow their mission and use that as the driving strategy, 89 00:05:35,230 --> 00:05:37,780 but then making the decisions based 90 00:05:39,990 --> 00:05:44,470 off of your mission. So it's really whatever your purpose is, 91 00:05:45,190 --> 00:05:47,620 it's really using that as your guiding light. 92 00:05:49,060 --> 00:05:49,930 Yeah, I love that. 93 00:05:49,930 --> 00:05:54,070 And in some ways that can really help with messaging during this time. 94 00:05:54,400 --> 00:05:59,210 So you are Garden of Life and maybe you are about to have to raise your prices. 95 00:05:59,210 --> 00:06:01,670 You communicate to your customers, Hey, 96 00:06:01,670 --> 00:06:06,560 here's why we will never compromise on these ingredients 97 00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:10,370 or this approach to our product. We're going to be sustainable. 98 00:06:10,970 --> 00:06:11,930 Come hell or high water, 99 00:06:12,260 --> 00:06:15,710 we're going to deliver good ingredients for you because we believe this is why 100 00:06:15,710 --> 00:06:16,543 we're here. 101 00:06:17,120 --> 00:06:20,990 So to do that and to not to keep the doors open, 102 00:06:21,800 --> 00:06:24,560 you think of an elegant way to say that we've got to raise prices a little bit, 103 00:06:24,890 --> 00:06:29,510 and I think your core audience will likely understand that piece. 104 00:06:29,990 --> 00:06:33,110 And when it comes to the prices and the price increase, 105 00:06:33,350 --> 00:06:37,790 you want to be as transparent as possible with your customers. 106 00:06:38,030 --> 00:06:41,660 So we've even seen examples where brands are, 107 00:06:41,810 --> 00:06:46,220 you're in the checkout flow, you didn't even enter the checkout flow, actually, 108 00:06:46,700 --> 00:06:50,780 you're in the cart and within the cart you see your estimated tax, 109 00:06:50,780 --> 00:06:55,550 your estimated shipping, and the estimate on tariffs, 110 00:06:55,940 --> 00:06:59,480 the additional charge for tariffs. So it's not something that's hidden, 111 00:07:00,020 --> 00:07:01,400 it's not something you're burying. 112 00:07:01,670 --> 00:07:06,050 And we've always found that e-commerce brands who are very transparent about 113 00:07:06,650 --> 00:07:10,580 the total cost of ownership and the total expense that their customers are going 114 00:07:10,580 --> 00:07:14,780 to have to spend, then they're more likely to convert in the end. 115 00:07:14,780 --> 00:07:17,840 Otherwise you're going to get a lot of abandoned carts and people are going to 116 00:07:17,840 --> 00:07:22,760 be confused as to why is everything so high once I'm ready to 117 00:07:22,760 --> 00:07:22,910 pull. 118 00:07:22,910 --> 00:07:24,230 The trigger. Interesting. So yeah, 119 00:07:24,740 --> 00:07:28,640 I've heard a few people talk about that and I would love to hear your 120 00:07:28,640 --> 00:07:31,430 perspectives and make you sort of laid it out there, 121 00:07:31,430 --> 00:07:33,800 but would love to hear how this has gone. 122 00:07:33,800 --> 00:07:36,470 So I know that there's one camp of people that say, 123 00:07:36,470 --> 00:07:39,230 just raise the price and for certain categories, 124 00:07:39,230 --> 00:07:42,770 the consumer will just deal with it, other competitors are raising prices, 125 00:07:42,770 --> 00:07:44,120 it's just going to be the new normal. 126 00:07:44,630 --> 00:07:47,270 Others say some of what you just said where hey, 127 00:07:47,390 --> 00:07:51,500 keep the price the same in the cart, we're adding a line for tariff, 128 00:07:51,950 --> 00:07:55,400 obviously then customers will see that that's going to change the total things 129 00:07:55,400 --> 00:07:56,233 like that. 130 00:07:56,390 --> 00:08:00,800 Does that cause a spike in abandoned carts or 131 00:08:01,550 --> 00:08:04,850 have we not seen that have that impact? Is it too early to tell? 132 00:08:04,850 --> 00:08:06,020 What's your perspective on that? 133 00:08:06,170 --> 00:08:06,500 Yeah, 134 00:08:06,500 --> 00:08:11,300 so Mickey and I are always proponents of testing things with your customers 135 00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:17,720 using test strategies to determine the tolerance 136 00:08:18,620 --> 00:08:20,270 for pricing changes. 137 00:08:20,630 --> 00:08:25,100 So there's a lot of tools out there that are dynamic pricing tools where you 138 00:08:25,670 --> 00:08:29,270 can test this also with customers to see. 139 00:08:29,810 --> 00:08:30,050 What. 140 00:08:30,050 --> 00:08:35,030 Their level of tolerance is for just tacking on this tariffs surcharge. 141 00:08:36,200 --> 00:08:40,310 In some industries, it's very dependent on the industry, 142 00:08:40,520 --> 00:08:45,140 how price sensitive your product is for what your strategy's going to be. 143 00:08:45,140 --> 00:08:47,090 There is no one size fits all. 144 00:08:47,540 --> 00:08:51,830 So we recommend being transparent, 145 00:08:52,340 --> 00:08:53,570 testing this, 146 00:08:53,630 --> 00:08:57,960 seeing what the reaction is for what people will tolerate. 147 00:08:59,490 --> 00:09:04,200 And it really is a matter of running tests on at what price 148 00:09:04,200 --> 00:09:07,770 point does, how does that impact conversion rate. And then you. 149 00:09:07,770 --> 00:09:08,610 Can absolutely. 150 00:09:08,760 --> 00:09:11,310 Chart that out and see what that's going to do to your business. 151 00:09:12,450 --> 00:09:16,860 But this is significant in a lot of cases. I listened to the Operators podcast, 152 00:09:16,860 --> 00:09:20,010 which is one I highly recommend Mike Beckham, 153 00:09:20,100 --> 00:09:23,880 who's the CEO and co-founder of Simple Modern, 154 00:09:23,880 --> 00:09:25,230 their drinkware brand. 155 00:09:26,250 --> 00:09:29,220 And they import everything from China is what it sounds like from the podcast. 156 00:09:29,280 --> 00:09:33,210 He said that they would have to raise prices 25% 157 00:09:34,740 --> 00:09:39,150 and sell the same amount of volume to stay profit neutral. 158 00:09:39,330 --> 00:09:41,520 So to keep profits where they are, 159 00:09:41,820 --> 00:09:45,840 25% increase in price and keep the same sales velocity, 160 00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:48,900 not super likely that they'd be able to do that. 161 00:09:48,900 --> 00:09:50,820 But that's one of those things where to me, 162 00:09:51,870 --> 00:09:55,950 maybe there's a limit here to what that tariff add-on at the end can be. 163 00:09:55,950 --> 00:09:59,850 If it's 25%, I think people are going to be like, what is this? I'm out of here. 164 00:10:00,660 --> 00:10:02,940 In that case you want to add it upfront I think, 165 00:10:02,940 --> 00:10:07,530 but it probably is worth testing doing it both ways depending on how much of a 166 00:10:07,530 --> 00:10:08,760 tariff upcharge there is. 167 00:10:09,390 --> 00:10:13,050 And it's not always, the solution doesn't always have to be raising prices. 168 00:10:13,230 --> 00:10:17,910 It could be a little bit more creative in even what you're offering. 169 00:10:17,910 --> 00:10:22,470 So one of the brands that I always look to as a leader in the 170 00:10:22,470 --> 00:10:24,570 space is Patagonia. 171 00:10:25,410 --> 00:10:29,640 And I don't know if you're familiar with their worn wear collection, 172 00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:32,970 but it's pre-warn items and they also, 173 00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:36,360 you have the ability to refurbish products. 174 00:10:36,720 --> 00:10:40,740 So instead of buying a whole new jacket, 175 00:10:40,740 --> 00:10:45,720 you can get your zipper repaired or maybe you 176 00:10:45,720 --> 00:10:50,610 snagged it on a tree hiking or climbing a rock or something. But 177 00:10:52,320 --> 00:10:53,460 in those cases, 178 00:10:54,090 --> 00:10:58,560 they were creative in staying within their mission, 179 00:10:58,560 --> 00:11:03,000 but also creating a whole nother less expensive way to purchase their 180 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:05,970 products. And now you're refurbishing, 181 00:11:05,970 --> 00:11:09,210 so you're not having to bring in from the manufacturers. 182 00:11:10,350 --> 00:11:15,060 Super interesting. And that requires a build out of services or build, 183 00:11:15,570 --> 00:11:19,320 but way easier than spinning up a factory or getting out of manufacturing 184 00:11:19,320 --> 00:11:24,000 relationship. And so that's an interesting spin as well. I really like that. 185 00:11:24,900 --> 00:11:28,620 What else are you hearing brands do right now? 186 00:11:28,620 --> 00:11:32,760 And also I wonder if you are purpose-driven or 187 00:11:32,760 --> 00:11:33,630 mission-driven, 188 00:11:34,290 --> 00:11:38,850 you can probably protect the margins a little bit better. 189 00:11:38,850 --> 00:11:41,040 You may have had better margins anyway, 190 00:11:42,060 --> 00:11:44,010 but are you hearing anything else? 191 00:11:44,010 --> 00:11:48,780 What are purpose-driven brands doing right now to protect margins and to keep 192 00:11:48,780 --> 00:11:49,613 their mission? 193 00:11:51,840 --> 00:11:56,830 So I think doing broader communication of that mission and 194 00:11:56,830 --> 00:12:01,480 developing that relationship with the brand, 195 00:12:01,480 --> 00:12:06,190 the more that you can increase loyalty and talk 196 00:12:06,190 --> 00:12:10,150 about other value that you provide as a company, 197 00:12:10,150 --> 00:12:14,590 your culture focusing on that, taking 198 00:12:17,020 --> 00:12:21,010 the focus off of price, I think is really helping brands. 199 00:12:22,060 --> 00:12:24,670 Yeah. Yeah, that makes a ton of sense. 200 00:12:26,140 --> 00:12:29,470 I realized a few minutes ago, but we were in the flow so I didn't want to stop, 201 00:12:29,470 --> 00:12:33,220 but we just got right after delivering value to the people, 202 00:12:33,280 --> 00:12:35,140 telling people what they need to think about and do right now, 203 00:12:35,560 --> 00:12:38,020 we didn't talk about your backgrounds. I said, you guys were legends. I said, 204 00:12:38,020 --> 00:12:41,050 we known each other for a long time and we got right into tariffs. 205 00:12:41,050 --> 00:12:44,320 What do mean? They dunno who we are. Come on now. Nobody knows. 206 00:12:44,950 --> 00:12:47,980 Who. For the audience that doesn't know your names immediately, 207 00:12:48,400 --> 00:12:53,380 let's give the 32nd background because Mickey, 208 00:12:53,380 --> 00:12:54,940 you've done a lot of amazing things. 209 00:12:55,390 --> 00:12:58,870 What have you done in the industry and why did I call you a legend? 210 00:12:59,170 --> 00:13:00,003 Yeah, 211 00:13:00,340 --> 00:13:04,270 so I've been in the space for a little over 20 years probably. 212 00:13:05,140 --> 00:13:08,980 My longest stint was actually as the chief creative officer of something 213 00:13:08,980 --> 00:13:13,180 digital, was an e-commerce based solutions provider, 214 00:13:13,180 --> 00:13:14,320 digital agency, 215 00:13:15,070 --> 00:13:18,970 and worked with a number of brands back then. 216 00:13:18,970 --> 00:13:21,850 I come from the creative side obviously. So 217 00:13:23,590 --> 00:13:28,090 I am always looking at creating customer experiences that are based on 218 00:13:28,090 --> 00:13:32,650 data. Like Carrie said, I'm a huge advocate of 219 00:13:34,360 --> 00:13:38,080 creating a culture of experimentation, not only internally, 220 00:13:38,080 --> 00:13:39,820 but with our clients as well. 221 00:13:40,900 --> 00:13:45,520 And aside from being in the e-commerce space, 222 00:13:45,520 --> 00:13:49,000 I am also a painter, fine artist. 223 00:13:49,810 --> 00:13:53,500 And my first career, actually, I was an educator, 224 00:13:53,500 --> 00:13:57,880 so I taught high school nice art back in the day, way back in the day. 225 00:13:57,940 --> 00:14:01,600 That's pretty the 20 years in this space 226 00:14:03,070 --> 00:14:06,490 and also at the college level. So for me, 227 00:14:06,820 --> 00:14:11,170 it's always important to have that educational element in everything that I do, 228 00:14:11,290 --> 00:14:13,960 be it with our internal team or with our clients. 229 00:14:14,920 --> 00:14:18,220 Love that. And some of the cool brands you've worked with over the years. 230 00:14:18,430 --> 00:14:18,970 Oh yeah. 231 00:14:18,970 --> 00:14:23,560 So some pretty big brands like Nestle and 232 00:14:23,560 --> 00:14:24,340 L'Oreal, 233 00:14:24,340 --> 00:14:28,900 but then everything from high fashion and boutique 234 00:14:29,230 --> 00:14:34,150 fashion brands like Love Shack, fancy, more mission-based brands like Bur Bees, 235 00:14:34,810 --> 00:14:38,290 burs B's Baby was one of our clients for quite a long time 236 00:14:39,490 --> 00:14:42,910 as well as Bake by Melissa 237 00:14:44,320 --> 00:14:46,930 really. So it runs the gamut. 238 00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:49,750 And even pre e-commerce, 239 00:14:49,930 --> 00:14:53,330 a lot of nonprofit organizations we are focusing on. 240 00:14:53,330 --> 00:14:56,900 So in the creation of Ascend with Carrie, my goal was to go 241 00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:04,610 back to the heart of things and working with brands who are, 242 00:15:04,790 --> 00:15:07,700 we don't care if you're just starting out or you've been in, 243 00:15:08,330 --> 00:15:10,610 you're a successful leader in the space, 244 00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:13,370 we want to work with you regardless. 245 00:15:14,180 --> 00:15:18,140 And we want to be able to provide value to our clients 246 00:15:19,160 --> 00:15:23,960 and helping them excel and lift their mission and their impact make their impact 247 00:15:24,170 --> 00:15:25,003 greater. 248 00:15:25,820 --> 00:15:27,460 So good, so good. And then Carrie, what about you? 249 00:15:27,460 --> 00:15:28,940 You've been A-C-O-O-A long time, 250 00:15:28,940 --> 00:15:32,060 you've been running ops at some amazing agencies. 251 00:15:32,060 --> 00:15:34,430 You've worked with some amazing brands and companies, 252 00:15:34,430 --> 00:15:37,160 but give the quick background for you as well. 253 00:15:37,310 --> 00:15:40,160 Yeah, for sure. Brett, when you and I first met, 254 00:15:40,160 --> 00:15:44,480 I was COO at Classy Lama and then eventually 255 00:15:45,140 --> 00:15:47,300 became president of that agency. 256 00:15:47,300 --> 00:15:51,770 I was a COO of another B2B e-commerce agency called E seven 257 00:15:51,770 --> 00:15:52,790 Solutions. 258 00:15:53,300 --> 00:15:58,280 And then I was vice president of programs at something digital in Wright Point, 259 00:15:58,280 --> 00:16:00,770 where Mickey and I got a chance to work together. 260 00:16:01,370 --> 00:16:06,260 And my superpower all along in this space has been 261 00:16:06,560 --> 00:16:10,700 creating value by delivering e-commerce 262 00:16:10,700 --> 00:16:11,690 websites, 263 00:16:12,410 --> 00:16:17,240 the software development on time and on budget with 264 00:16:17,240 --> 00:16:18,050 quality. 265 00:16:18,050 --> 00:16:22,310 And you would think that that would be the norm in our industry. 266 00:16:23,240 --> 00:16:27,800 But for everybody who's ever done a build out of a new site, 267 00:16:28,460 --> 00:16:31,490 I can tell you it's not the norm. 268 00:16:31,490 --> 00:16:34,040 It's not the norm at all. It's like construction always late, 269 00:16:34,100 --> 00:16:37,610 always over budget, just the way it goes. But yeah, I got to see that firsthand. 270 00:16:37,820 --> 00:16:42,680 You guys deliver real solutions that work and on budget and on 271 00:16:42,680 --> 00:16:46,190 time, which is very impressive. Okay, awesome. Now that people are like, Hey, 272 00:16:46,190 --> 00:16:48,590 I got great tariff insights and now I know who you guys are, 273 00:16:48,590 --> 00:16:49,880 so let's get after a little bit. 274 00:16:49,880 --> 00:16:53,660 So let's talk about this maturity matrix, 275 00:16:53,690 --> 00:16:58,580 five levels to the matrix. I'm not sure who's doing which level, but level one, 276 00:16:58,580 --> 00:16:59,350 what is it? 277 00:16:59,350 --> 00:17:04,040 And give us some examples and then where do people get stuck in level one and 278 00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:04,940 how do they move to the next? 279 00:17:05,030 --> 00:17:08,540 Yeah, sure. I can kick us off. So overall, 280 00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:13,160 we call it the conscious commerce maturity matrix. I know it's a mouthful. 281 00:17:13,160 --> 00:17:17,600 Anyone has better ideas and what to call it, we are open, 282 00:17:18,350 --> 00:17:23,270 but basically it's a framework that helps us evaluate in e-commerce 283 00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:23,990 business, 284 00:17:23,990 --> 00:17:28,220 digital maturity and then balance that with their purpose and their impact. 285 00:17:28,220 --> 00:17:33,200 So each level outlines like key marketing strategies, 286 00:17:33,320 --> 00:17:36,260 e-commerce capabilities and functionality, 287 00:17:36,530 --> 00:17:40,640 and then brand positioning to help that business scale effectively. 288 00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:44,060 So the first one is we call it emerging. 289 00:17:44,510 --> 00:17:47,060 So this is a brand that's in its infancy. 290 00:17:47,270 --> 00:17:51,630 They're establishing like a e-commerce experience, 291 00:17:51,630 --> 00:17:56,130 and they're beginning to explore purpose-driven initiatives. 292 00:17:57,180 --> 00:18:01,530 So basically they have a basic online presence, 293 00:18:01,530 --> 00:18:05,160 minimal optimization, they're reactive in their marketing. 294 00:18:05,160 --> 00:18:08,820 They have very limited, if any customer segmentation, 295 00:18:08,940 --> 00:18:13,920 and we're really focusing on helping them define their why and 296 00:18:13,920 --> 00:18:16,350 then piloting their first initiative. 297 00:18:16,770 --> 00:18:20,250 So there's a brand that we work with today called chena. 298 00:18:20,250 --> 00:18:23,730 They're a new gym in community center in Brooklyn in New York, 299 00:18:24,360 --> 00:18:25,650 founded by on Acosta. 300 00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:30,390 And we work with them to create on our 301 00:18:30,390 --> 00:18:32,670 offering that we call our minimum lovable brand, 302 00:18:33,030 --> 00:18:36,180 which is very similar to a minimum viable product, 303 00:18:36,270 --> 00:18:38,190 but from a branding purpose. 304 00:18:38,190 --> 00:18:43,170 So you're focusing on the foundational elements and you are focusing on 305 00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:46,470 making those foundational elements lovable, right? 306 00:18:46,470 --> 00:18:50,880 Because you want people to have an emotion as soon as they interact with your 307 00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:52,800 brand, a good, a positive emotion, 308 00:18:55,830 --> 00:18:56,160 not. 309 00:18:56,160 --> 00:18:57,030 Repulsion or. 310 00:18:57,030 --> 00:19:01,010 Right, exactly. A affinity, some love goodbyes. 311 00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:07,050 So in working with them, because they're a brand new brand, 312 00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:12,240 it's really about establishing the base 313 00:19:12,570 --> 00:19:16,530 visual identity and then what that brand strategy is. 314 00:19:16,530 --> 00:19:21,180 So we ended up building their site on Squarespace and integrating with 315 00:19:21,330 --> 00:19:23,700 mindbody. I'm not sure if you're familiar with that, 316 00:19:23,700 --> 00:19:28,260 but all of the e-commerce engine is run by mindbody. 317 00:19:28,260 --> 00:19:32,970 It's very much a platform for businesses who are in 318 00:19:32,970 --> 00:19:37,890 the wellness space, spa salons, gyms obviously. 319 00:19:38,700 --> 00:19:43,440 And so right now we're just speaking with her 320 00:19:44,310 --> 00:19:45,420 just yesterday actually, 321 00:19:45,420 --> 00:19:50,280 I was speaking with Anna about how are they going to react to all 322 00:19:50,370 --> 00:19:53,490 the tariffs and the chaos and everything that people are feeling, right? 323 00:19:53,490 --> 00:19:58,170 Everybody's uneasy and is it time to buy a new gym membership or 324 00:19:59,040 --> 00:20:01,140 do you have any extra money to spend here? 325 00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:06,000 So we're looking to develop community pricing model 326 00:20:06,270 --> 00:20:10,440 where you can pay as you a lower priced model interesting 327 00:20:11,190 --> 00:20:12,420 for customers. 328 00:20:12,450 --> 00:20:16,830 And it's really about the messaging there because if you can afford it 329 00:20:17,460 --> 00:20:20,340 and pay the standard fee, 330 00:20:20,340 --> 00:20:23,550 you are helping to support other people in the community that can't 331 00:20:26,190 --> 00:20:30,090 and creating a balance there. 332 00:20:30,150 --> 00:20:34,950 And that's part of the mission of isch is to really create 333 00:20:34,950 --> 00:20:39,510 this open inclusive community in that 334 00:20:39,510 --> 00:20:43,770 area and fostering wellness and joy. 335 00:20:44,940 --> 00:20:48,730 And I think during times of uncertainty, change and stress, 336 00:20:49,270 --> 00:20:52,930 never a more important time to work out than now. 337 00:20:52,930 --> 00:20:57,820 And so the last thing you want to skimp on or cut out of your 338 00:20:57,820 --> 00:21:00,970 budget is something that's going to improve your health and your wellbeing. 339 00:21:01,360 --> 00:21:04,450 But I love that where you can kind of present the message of, hey, 340 00:21:04,450 --> 00:21:05,770 if you can't pay full price, great, 341 00:21:05,770 --> 00:21:08,200 because what you're doing is you're supporting Those that can, 342 00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:10,420 and we got this community pricing, and so then it kind feels like, Hey, 343 00:21:11,050 --> 00:21:14,110 I'm doing my part. I don't like the tariff, but I've got money. 344 00:21:14,110 --> 00:21:17,110 I'm just going to pay the full price that can allow someone else to get in 345 00:21:17,110 --> 00:21:20,710 there. And so that's an interesting angle. I love that. 346 00:21:20,710 --> 00:21:22,930 So at this emerging level, 347 00:21:22,930 --> 00:21:25,990 we're building the foundation of a minimum lovable brand. 348 00:21:26,770 --> 00:21:28,360 We're creating all the branding and all the foundation, 349 00:21:28,360 --> 00:21:32,230 the messaging and things like that. Anything else to add to level one? 350 00:21:32,230 --> 00:21:36,430 And then what are the things we have to solve for to get to level two. 351 00:21:36,880 --> 00:21:37,713 Right? 352 00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:42,700 It's basically working through the list of 353 00:21:42,700 --> 00:21:43,480 strategies. 354 00:21:43,480 --> 00:21:48,310 So getting to a place where you have 355 00:21:48,310 --> 00:21:52,480 an email subscriber list that you can consistently market to 356 00:21:52,990 --> 00:21:56,680 and start segmenting if you have less than 500 emails, 357 00:21:57,640 --> 00:21:58,750 does it even make sense? 358 00:21:59,350 --> 00:22:03,880 So it's not just from an e-commerce experience perspective, 359 00:22:03,880 --> 00:22:07,810 but also the marketing and the brand strategy behind it. 360 00:22:08,830 --> 00:22:12,880 Blockers could just be as a new brand is just getting 361 00:22:13,270 --> 00:22:16,420 awareness, making people aware of the brand, 362 00:22:17,170 --> 00:22:21,910 and so increasing membership at this particular 363 00:22:21,910 --> 00:22:26,140 gym so that you can start putting money back into 364 00:22:26,230 --> 00:22:27,910 evolving the business. 365 00:22:28,490 --> 00:22:30,670 Great. Great. So then what about level two? 366 00:22:30,670 --> 00:22:33,040 What is level two and give us an example. 367 00:22:33,850 --> 00:22:37,030 So level two is when we want to start to scale the business, 368 00:22:37,030 --> 00:22:41,590 we feel that we have a solid foundation and we're ready to 369 00:22:41,590 --> 00:22:42,423 grow. 370 00:22:43,300 --> 00:22:46,720 So that starts with a structured marketing plan, 371 00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:51,100 and that's often where teams like yours come into the picture after we've built 372 00:22:51,100 --> 00:22:55,630 the site and we have that foundation stable. 373 00:22:55,630 --> 00:23:00,580 But what we see a lot of times is we start with the 374 00:23:00,580 --> 00:23:05,410 roadblocks and the misalignments. So I don't know if you remember this, Brett, 375 00:23:05,410 --> 00:23:10,270 but years ago you and I worked with a brand that was up and coming that nobody 376 00:23:10,270 --> 00:23:12,280 had ever heard of called Johnny O. 377 00:23:13,060 --> 00:23:17,260 Right now everybody knows Johnny O, but when you and I worked with them, 378 00:23:18,100 --> 00:23:22,540 I was working on the marketing strategy with you and we were sending traffic to 379 00:23:22,540 --> 00:23:26,200 their site, but it wasn't converting, 380 00:23:28,330 --> 00:23:33,040 the message wasn't out there, the brand couldn't sell it. And so John O'Donnell, 381 00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:35,110 when he created that brand, 382 00:23:35,230 --> 00:23:40,210 he had this vision of taking East Coast Prep 383 00:23:40,210 --> 00:23:44,950 Ralph Lauren and combining it with Southern California grunge and 384 00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:47,630 relaxed where, 385 00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:53,510 and we were sending great traffic to them, but it wasn't converting. 386 00:23:53,510 --> 00:23:58,370 So we really had to focus on improving the CX and improving 387 00:23:58,730 --> 00:24:00,050 the story there. 388 00:24:00,500 --> 00:24:05,120 And so what level two is in scaling is you try something and you 389 00:24:05,120 --> 00:24:05,810 tweak, 390 00:24:05,810 --> 00:24:10,760 you try something and you tweak and you're really learning on how 391 00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:11,600 to get there. 392 00:24:11,690 --> 00:24:16,370 And I just love to see the transformation of the Brandon Geno 393 00:24:17,390 --> 00:24:21,980 and now they give back by giving away clothes 394 00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:23,930 to disaster relief areas is. 395 00:24:24,170 --> 00:24:27,680 It's amazing. It's amazing. And it's one of those things where first of all, 396 00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:31,610 love Johnny O. Love their style, love the way they approach things. But yeah, 397 00:24:32,030 --> 00:24:33,260 when you start to see, hey, 398 00:24:33,260 --> 00:24:35,360 we're driving traffic or we're getting people to the site, 399 00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:38,660 they're not converting it, what is it? Is it the shopping experience? 400 00:24:39,110 --> 00:24:43,820 Is it the promise or the message isn't the same as what they're seeing on the 401 00:24:43,820 --> 00:24:47,540 sites? There's lack of congruency. Are we just pulling in the wrong people? 402 00:24:47,690 --> 00:24:49,490 What is it that's not working? 403 00:24:50,270 --> 00:24:54,890 But that's really what takes a little bit of time to figure out time and data. 404 00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:58,220 But then when you do get it right and it is the right message to the right 405 00:24:58,220 --> 00:25:00,890 person at the right time and then a good shopping experience, 406 00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:06,230 it can create some magic as is the case with Johnny O. So that's awesome. 407 00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:11,420 Good. So what then are some of the blockers? 408 00:25:11,420 --> 00:25:13,940 What are some of the things we've got to solve in level two before we get to 409 00:25:13,940 --> 00:25:14,773 level three? 410 00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:19,970 So misalignment, inconsistent messaging, 411 00:25:21,290 --> 00:25:26,270 not evoking that emotion and that feeling that you're trying to convey 412 00:25:26,270 --> 00:25:30,800 with your brand. We see all kinds of stuff 413 00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:37,880 sometimes. And so we watch that conversion funnel all the time. 414 00:25:38,510 --> 00:25:43,340 Where are people not getting it? Where are they bouncing? What's happening? 415 00:25:43,340 --> 00:25:45,680 And like we talked about and then we test, 416 00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:49,910 we do that conversion rate optimization. 417 00:25:50,270 --> 00:25:54,770 It's so much less expensive for our 418 00:25:54,770 --> 00:25:59,630 clients to do a test on the front end to change something 419 00:25:59,690 --> 00:26:03,260 before changing code, right? Code's expensive to change, 420 00:26:03,260 --> 00:26:04,760 you've got to do a deployment, 421 00:26:05,930 --> 00:26:09,950 but we start tweaking with testing. 422 00:26:10,770 --> 00:26:12,290 Yeah, yeah, I love that. 423 00:26:12,290 --> 00:26:15,680 And it's one of those things where it's both on the messaging side up front but 424 00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:20,330 then also on the site and some things you think are going to work, don't. Boom, 425 00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:21,740 beauty longtime climb. 426 00:26:21,740 --> 00:26:26,540 My buddy Ezra Firestone runs the company and there's always been skincare 427 00:26:26,810 --> 00:26:28,490 for women like boomer women and older, 428 00:26:28,970 --> 00:26:33,920 and they thought most women view themselves as so young and whatever. 429 00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:37,640 So for a while they always had the age appropriate models in their ads and they 430 00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:41,660 thought, well, let's just try women in their late forties or whatever. 431 00:26:41,660 --> 00:26:45,870 And there was almost a coup, there was a protest, 432 00:26:45,870 --> 00:26:48,690 the people reached out and they're like, that is not me. 433 00:26:48,930 --> 00:26:51,270 What are you doing in these at? And you're like, oh, sorry, 434 00:26:51,990 --> 00:26:54,810 we'll go back to the core. No problem. But yeah, 435 00:26:54,810 --> 00:26:58,650 you got to test stuff like that because sometimes little things like age of the 436 00:26:58,650 --> 00:27:00,720 model or how we're displaying this thing, 437 00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:03,330 you wouldn't think it would would've a big impact. It could have a big impact. 438 00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:05,940 So really, really important. Good. 439 00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:09,360 What about then what level are we ready for? I. 440 00:27:09,360 --> 00:27:09,810 Said. 441 00:27:09,810 --> 00:27:09,970 Three. 442 00:27:09,970 --> 00:27:11,130 We level three. Yeah, level three. So. 443 00:27:12,660 --> 00:27:13,290 Go for it. Does that back to you? 444 00:27:13,290 --> 00:27:17,220 What is level three? So level three is optimizing, talking about testing. 445 00:27:17,850 --> 00:27:21,960 So level, level two, you start dipping your toe into that. 446 00:27:22,260 --> 00:27:26,550 But now level three is taking that data and then 447 00:27:26,700 --> 00:27:30,360 using it to make the actual change. 448 00:27:30,870 --> 00:27:32,280 So you're testing, 449 00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:36,540 but now you are implementing those tests that have proved successful. 450 00:27:36,810 --> 00:27:40,230 You're leveraging automation and personalization. 451 00:27:40,230 --> 00:27:43,920 So now you know more about your customer, who they are, 452 00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:45,390 what they're looking for. 453 00:27:46,020 --> 00:27:50,280 You had mentioned with Johnny O and sending possibly maybe 454 00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:54,150 unqualified traffic to the site and people were converting. 455 00:27:54,630 --> 00:27:57,510 We know who the audience is at this level. 456 00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:02,430 And there's also from an impact perspective or purpose perspective, 457 00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:07,140 there's a structured impact strategy in place. 458 00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:09,300 You know what you're trying to convey, 459 00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:12,360 what the values are within the organization, 460 00:28:12,360 --> 00:28:16,050 and you're putting that first as you execute. 461 00:28:16,650 --> 00:28:21,030 So you're looking at holistic marketing strategies, 462 00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:26,670 data-driven marketing automation, like I said, even ai predictive search, 463 00:28:27,180 --> 00:28:31,230 if you're thinking about the customer experience on the website, 464 00:28:31,470 --> 00:28:33,420 loyalty and rewards programs. 465 00:28:33,690 --> 00:28:37,740 But you always ask also what might be a roadblock, 466 00:28:37,770 --> 00:28:40,170 what's stopping them from moving to the next? Right. 467 00:28:41,850 --> 00:28:42,840 At level three, 468 00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:47,700 one of the blocks that we see is a lack of cross-departmental alignment. 469 00:28:48,270 --> 00:28:52,950 So the marketing team might be misaligned with the technology 470 00:28:52,950 --> 00:28:53,783 team 471 00:28:55,980 --> 00:28:58,620 while the purpose and the mission is there, 472 00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:00,960 not everyone's bought into it internally, 473 00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:04,320 everyone has their own initiatives going on. 474 00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:09,480 And so that can really prohibit the overall brand from successfully 475 00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:13,260 moving forward. It's not always what's happening with the customer, 476 00:29:13,770 --> 00:29:15,210 you got to look inside as well. 477 00:29:16,110 --> 00:29:19,680 Yeah, it's such a good point. What tips do you have? 478 00:29:19,740 --> 00:29:21,600 What examples do you have? 479 00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:24,960 And then do you have any suggestions on tools or other things that are 480 00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:25,920 appropriate for this level? 481 00:29:27,330 --> 00:29:29,070 So specific tools, 482 00:29:29,580 --> 00:29:33,900 there's so many tools out there from if we're thinking about functionality and 483 00:29:34,380 --> 00:29:39,300 everything from Algolia search and VU and things like that to help with 484 00:29:39,540 --> 00:29:41,800 AI driven search, 485 00:29:43,060 --> 00:29:46,990 but tools in thinking about how do you mend 486 00:29:48,340 --> 00:29:50,260 that disconnect internally, 487 00:29:52,210 --> 00:29:56,380 think about maybe there's leadership training that 488 00:29:57,070 --> 00:30:00,250 you're giving to the leaders within your organization. 489 00:30:00,250 --> 00:30:04,690 Carrie and I are actually in the process of taking this really great conscious 490 00:30:04,690 --> 00:30:08,740 leadership training this month and I'm like, 491 00:30:08,740 --> 00:30:13,510 everybody should take this course because it's 492 00:30:13,510 --> 00:30:18,400 been very eyeopening and also doing things 493 00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:20,470 internally to get other people aligned. 494 00:30:20,710 --> 00:30:25,270 If you're more friendly with the people within your organization, 495 00:30:25,390 --> 00:30:29,770 you respect them and it's really working together to do that. 496 00:30:29,770 --> 00:30:34,600 And you need that leadership from the top to help encourage the teams to 497 00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:37,420 really get along and to get on the same page. 498 00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:42,550 Yeah, I love it. I really believe businesses only really has two things, 499 00:30:42,910 --> 00:30:46,810 brand and culture. Brand is the outside perception. 500 00:30:46,810 --> 00:30:49,330 It's what the marketplace believes about you, 501 00:30:49,330 --> 00:30:52,030 thinks about you when they see your logo or your product, what do they feel? 502 00:30:52,030 --> 00:30:53,770 What are those emotions like we talked about before? 503 00:30:53,770 --> 00:30:57,940 But brand and then culture and culture is who you are on the inside. 504 00:30:57,940 --> 00:30:59,860 How are those departments communicating with each other? 505 00:31:00,190 --> 00:31:01,150 How are you actually operating? 506 00:31:01,150 --> 00:31:04,570 Are you actually mission-driven or is that just something you say and it's not 507 00:31:04,570 --> 00:31:06,040 real? What is the culture? 508 00:31:06,310 --> 00:31:11,230 Because ultimately the culture will influence the brand and it will 509 00:31:11,260 --> 00:31:14,020 shine through and people will see that. So both are important. 510 00:31:14,020 --> 00:31:17,440 So I love that you brought that up. Sometimes it's not just a tech solution, 511 00:31:17,830 --> 00:31:20,140 sometimes it's an internal department solution. 512 00:31:20,140 --> 00:31:24,940 Maybe that's part of the blocker that's keeping you stuck where you are. 513 00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:29,020 It's the need to get more alignment and better communication and better 514 00:31:29,050 --> 00:31:33,100 leadership inside your team, which impacts culture overall. It's great, 515 00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:34,000 great insight. 516 00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:38,350 Just a very visual example that you can see 517 00:31:38,830 --> 00:31:43,390 where there might be misalignment in a brand is just the 518 00:31:43,390 --> 00:31:48,040 carousel that they might have on the homepage. There's five, 519 00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:52,720 six slides of different, maybe it's products, 520 00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:56,500 maybe it's mission-based branding and messaging. 521 00:31:56,500 --> 00:32:01,060 But when there's so many different slides 522 00:32:01,060 --> 00:32:02,110 within a carousel, 523 00:32:02,110 --> 00:32:05,380 it's because everyone in the organization is fighting for the top spot. 524 00:32:05,890 --> 00:32:06,310 You can't. 525 00:32:06,310 --> 00:32:09,040 Choose it's decision by committee or everyone. 526 00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:09,410 Gets a choice. 527 00:32:09,410 --> 00:32:14,410 Everybody fighting internally of they want their thing to be upfront and 528 00:32:14,410 --> 00:32:17,410 center. So the carousel kind of in my opinion, 529 00:32:17,590 --> 00:32:22,210 developed because of internal struggle and less about trying to 530 00:32:22,780 --> 00:32:24,610 assist the customer in their experience. 531 00:32:25,330 --> 00:32:25,720 Yeah, 532 00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:29,170 it's a really good call out when something looks kind of Frankenstein together 533 00:32:29,170 --> 00:32:30,940 or where are we going here? 534 00:32:30,940 --> 00:32:34,540 This is a committee decision thing or everyone fighting internally or whatever. 535 00:32:34,540 --> 00:32:38,890 Yeah, that's a really great example. Okay, cool. So level four ready for that. 536 00:32:39,260 --> 00:32:41,060 Back to you. What is level four? I'm going to. 537 00:32:41,060 --> 00:32:45,710 Take this one. Oh, sorry. Just to mix it up, make things up for you. 538 00:32:46,910 --> 00:32:50,060 But I wanted to take this one because 539 00:32:51,980 --> 00:32:56,660 the name of this level is called Leading. And like I mentioned before, 540 00:32:58,850 --> 00:33:03,290 Patagonia is one of the leaders in this space. And so 541 00:33:05,570 --> 00:33:06,920 if you're at level four, 542 00:33:06,950 --> 00:33:11,840 you're recognized as a leader in the e-commerce space and as well as the impact 543 00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:15,380 you're integrating sustainability, employee wellness, 544 00:33:15,380 --> 00:33:18,050 customer experience at every touch point. 545 00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:20,750 And they are a great case study for that. 546 00:33:21,530 --> 00:33:26,060 They're strong brand loyalty driven by values and innovation. 547 00:33:27,590 --> 00:33:31,460 Their purpose is what differentiates them from their competitors. 548 00:33:31,850 --> 00:33:36,440 Deep personalization happening on the site. There's very high loyalty. 549 00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:42,260 What I mentioned earlier about the wear as a solution to 550 00:33:43,340 --> 00:33:48,230 a different perspective on how to deal with increasing costs. 551 00:33:49,940 --> 00:33:54,710 One of the things that could be a blocker though is losing your 552 00:33:54,710 --> 00:33:57,050 authenticity as you continue to scale, 553 00:33:58,490 --> 00:34:03,290 as you continue to grow. That would be one area that you'd really need to 554 00:34:03,290 --> 00:34:07,580 keep an eye on because you don't want to lose that mission. 555 00:34:07,580 --> 00:34:09,230 I'm not saying Patagonia is doing that, 556 00:34:09,230 --> 00:34:11,960 I'm just saying for an organization in this space, 557 00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:15,860 that's one area you definitely want to pay close attention to. 558 00:34:16,940 --> 00:34:21,740 But outside of the warm wear collection, I don't know if you're familiar in, 559 00:34:21,740 --> 00:34:25,190 I think it was 2010 or 2011, 560 00:34:25,460 --> 00:34:28,640 they created this campaign called Don't Buy This Jacket. 561 00:34:30,140 --> 00:34:35,060 And it was a Black Friday ad that ran in the New York 562 00:34:35,060 --> 00:34:39,770 Times and it was like featuring their bestselling product 563 00:34:40,550 --> 00:34:44,060 at the time, I think it was a fleece or something. And it wasn't about, 564 00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:47,420 they were saying don't buy this jacket because what they're saying is they want 565 00:34:47,420 --> 00:34:51,890 customers to buy less and repair more and they were really encouraging them to 566 00:34:52,610 --> 00:34:57,380 go through the process of using their wear collection or their 567 00:34:57,380 --> 00:34:59,180 refurbished products. 568 00:34:59,180 --> 00:35:02,810 So you can just send in your products that are Patagonia and then have them 569 00:35:02,810 --> 00:35:04,040 repaired by the brand. 570 00:35:05,540 --> 00:35:07,340 Super interesting and a bit risky. 571 00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:07,670 So. 572 00:35:07,670 --> 00:35:10,880 Don't buy this. But the cool thing about that is everybody's like, 573 00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:15,110 wait a minute, what? Definitely a pattern interrupt, not what you're expecting. 574 00:35:15,110 --> 00:35:18,470 So then you lean in potentially a little bit more, which is super interesting. 575 00:35:19,340 --> 00:35:24,260 And their sales that year increased I think by 30% after that. 576 00:35:24,710 --> 00:35:29,270 And so their purpose and profit can coexist, right? 577 00:35:29,270 --> 00:35:30,080 It's not one or the. 578 00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:30,913 Other. 579 00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:35,300 And it's also one of those things too where that resonates with their customer. 580 00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:39,450 So people that are active that are climbing and affluent, 581 00:35:39,450 --> 00:35:44,280 they're also conscious about the earth and environment climbing, 582 00:35:44,280 --> 00:35:46,710 things like that. So that feels good. Just say, wait a minute, yeah, 583 00:35:46,710 --> 00:35:48,990 I do have this awesome coat, I'm just going to get that repaired. 584 00:35:49,470 --> 00:35:51,570 But you know what, we all like to buy stuff too. 585 00:35:51,570 --> 00:35:53,880 So there's also a lot of this people that are like, yeah, 586 00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:56,040 but I'm going to buy this pair of pants as well. 587 00:35:56,040 --> 00:35:58,740 I'm going to buy this new thing for sure. Just I want to. 588 00:35:58,740 --> 00:36:01,410 And now I feel like I'm giving back sort of even though I'm just buying 589 00:36:01,410 --> 00:36:03,420 something. So yeah, it just all. 590 00:36:03,420 --> 00:36:04,930 Works money. So now maybe I. 591 00:36:04,930 --> 00:36:05,763 Save money. 592 00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:07,400 Yeah. 593 00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:11,790 We're always looking for the justification of how can I justify this purchase 594 00:36:13,050 --> 00:36:15,570 with logic? I already made it emotionally. Yeah, absolutely. Really. 595 00:36:15,570 --> 00:36:16,050 Great. 596 00:36:16,050 --> 00:36:19,650 Absolutely. So that's level four. So then level five, bring us home. 597 00:36:20,010 --> 00:36:21,060 So back to you, Carrie. Yeah. 598 00:36:21,420 --> 00:36:24,240 Yeah. Level five, pioneering. 599 00:36:24,810 --> 00:36:29,490 So I have spent the last five years working 600 00:36:29,490 --> 00:36:33,750 with a very pioneering brand in the e-commerce 601 00:36:33,750 --> 00:36:36,450 space, AB InBev, 602 00:36:36,450 --> 00:36:39,390 the parent company of Anheuser-Busch. 603 00:36:39,990 --> 00:36:44,100 I worked with them on their digital sales transformation, 604 00:36:44,160 --> 00:36:45,570 B2B globally. 605 00:36:46,170 --> 00:36:50,490 And they really went from an in-person sales strategy to 606 00:36:50,490 --> 00:36:55,320 transition to online selling in a space where you 607 00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:56,460 wouldn't expect it, 608 00:36:57,240 --> 00:37:00,840 where you're selling to bars and restaurants and corner stores, 609 00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:02,633 beer. 610 00:37:03,120 --> 00:37:07,830 But they have done some incredibly pioneering things in this space. 611 00:37:08,310 --> 00:37:12,690 They custom built and algorithmic sales predictive 612 00:37:12,690 --> 00:37:17,460 engine using AI and using historical data of what 613 00:37:17,460 --> 00:37:20,790 customers were purchasing to say, okay, 614 00:37:20,790 --> 00:37:23,760 now we think this is what your next order is going to look like. 615 00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:27,510 And so they would build up the entire next order for the customer and present 616 00:37:27,510 --> 00:37:31,710 that to them so they could put the entire thing in the cart and just check out. 617 00:37:32,340 --> 00:37:35,370 And that increased sales significantly. 618 00:37:36,030 --> 00:37:40,800 And after they built this infrastructure and we launched it 619 00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:44,010 in 24 countries in four years, they said, you know what? 620 00:37:44,010 --> 00:37:47,340 We're going to take this a step further and we're going to become more like an 621 00:37:47,340 --> 00:37:48,750 Amazon for B2B. 622 00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:54,510 Now they've taken their e-commerce platform and they're using it 623 00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:59,310 as a marketplace for other consumer goods companies. 624 00:37:59,490 --> 00:38:04,260 They've onboarded Nestle and Mondelez in a bunch of countries around the 625 00:38:04,260 --> 00:38:05,700 globe into this platform. 626 00:38:05,700 --> 00:38:09,330 So that's when you're transforming business, 627 00:38:10,200 --> 00:38:12,720 then you're a pioneer in this space. 628 00:38:12,720 --> 00:38:13,553 Really interesting. 629 00:38:13,690 --> 00:38:18,540 So what is their primary objective with this marketplace or 630 00:38:18,540 --> 00:38:22,530 creating the Amazon for B2B? What's their objective with that? 631 00:38:23,610 --> 00:38:25,290 They were really smart about it. 632 00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:30,660 They have 2.5 million customers that they're selling beer to around the globe, 633 00:38:30,660 --> 00:38:33,240 and they have the infrastructure already. 634 00:38:34,230 --> 00:38:38,200 They're shipping weekly to all of these locations. And they said, wait a minute, 635 00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:40,970 why don't we share this infrastructure? Love. 636 00:38:40,970 --> 00:38:41,803 It. I love it. It's. 637 00:38:41,970 --> 00:38:45,940 Brilliant with other companies that are selling to our clients, 638 00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:49,870 we've done all the work. Let's expand this. 639 00:38:51,010 --> 00:38:55,900 Yeah, it's really what a great idea. We've already got the distribution system, 640 00:38:55,930 --> 00:38:58,780 the relationships, the system customer. 641 00:38:58,780 --> 00:39:02,500 Our stuff, customers using our app or our website to purchase every week, what. 642 00:39:02,500 --> 00:39:03,333 Other products there. 643 00:39:03,370 --> 00:39:08,170 For their store. If you have a grocery store, a bar, 644 00:39:08,620 --> 00:39:11,170 a restaurant, a corner kiosk, 645 00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:16,000 you're replenishing the beer every week, you're in there ordering. 646 00:39:18,130 --> 00:39:22,150 So how can we create new revenue lines and new opportunities here through what 647 00:39:22,150 --> 00:39:27,100 we already have? I think that's just such an important business skill of how can 648 00:39:27,100 --> 00:39:30,490 I leverage existing assets, existing tools, 649 00:39:30,490 --> 00:39:34,450 existing relationships to open up new opportunities and 650 00:39:35,470 --> 00:39:37,210 really create a solution. I love that. 651 00:39:38,140 --> 00:39:42,160 What are some of the things that you're hearing right now from 652 00:39:42,670 --> 00:39:47,020 your clients? Are they doubling down on mission? 653 00:39:47,320 --> 00:39:51,460 Are they a little bit fearful because they're mission driven? 654 00:39:52,630 --> 00:39:57,610 Because to me it seems like this is not the time just to start slashing prices. 655 00:39:57,610 --> 00:39:58,570 Nobody's slashing prices, I guess, 656 00:39:58,570 --> 00:40:02,860 but it's not the time to go cheap or to just go into survival mode 657 00:40:02,860 --> 00:40:03,693 necessarily. 658 00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:08,140 This is the time probably to lean into whatever your purpose is or whatever your 659 00:40:08,140 --> 00:40:11,500 mission is. And there may be a little bit of riding the storm, 660 00:40:11,500 --> 00:40:12,280 weathering the storm, 661 00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:16,960 but I think you can use this to your advantage and to your 662 00:40:17,950 --> 00:40:21,670 customer's advantage by leaning into your mission. 663 00:40:22,150 --> 00:40:24,430 So what else are you hearing or seeing from your clients right now? 664 00:40:26,320 --> 00:40:29,230 I think you're exactly right. I think leaning 665 00:40:30,740 --> 00:40:34,690 into the mission and why you're in business in the first place, 666 00:40:35,470 --> 00:40:39,520 every one of us that starts a business, we have this vision, 667 00:40:39,700 --> 00:40:44,140 this creative vision of doing something important and 668 00:40:44,140 --> 00:40:47,680 providing a service or providing meaning. 669 00:40:47,680 --> 00:40:51,520 And sometimes as companies grow, they lose sight of that. 670 00:40:52,090 --> 00:40:53,320 And we focus on 671 00:40:56,230 --> 00:41:00,040 all the nuances of our business. The bottom line this, 672 00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:02,290 the how are we going to change this? 673 00:41:02,290 --> 00:41:05,710 And sometimes we forget that original purpose. 674 00:41:05,710 --> 00:41:10,240 And what we see time and time again is every 675 00:41:10,240 --> 00:41:13,570 company who focuses on that culture piece, 676 00:41:13,630 --> 00:41:15,340 on that purpose piece, 677 00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:19,120 they really start to thrive. 678 00:41:21,430 --> 00:41:24,220 It's more of a sustainable model in multiple ways. 679 00:41:24,340 --> 00:41:28,570 It's more of a sustainable brand when you have a real reason for existing, 680 00:41:28,570 --> 00:41:31,180 that's not just selling a widget, 681 00:41:31,180 --> 00:41:34,760 which we're always all here to sell stuff and make money and make profits. 682 00:41:34,760 --> 00:41:38,540 Obviously we can't exist without that. But if there's more to it, 683 00:41:38,660 --> 00:41:43,490 usually you're a little more insulated and a little more stable in 684 00:41:43,490 --> 00:41:44,420 times of uncertainty. 685 00:41:44,930 --> 00:41:49,610 Right? And what all the studies show also is your team is more engaged, 686 00:41:50,180 --> 00:41:54,950 they're more motivated to help you pursue that purpose. So. 687 00:41:56,090 --> 00:41:58,940 I like it. I like it. Well, as we wrap up, 688 00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:03,650 who should be reaching out to you? So if people are listening and thinking, 689 00:42:03,650 --> 00:42:05,810 I'm liking these tips and suggestions, 690 00:42:05,810 --> 00:42:08,150 and I maybe I'm a level three and want to go level four or wherever they may 691 00:42:08,150 --> 00:42:11,930 find themselves on the maturity matrix, 692 00:42:12,410 --> 00:42:17,360 who are you guys really best equipped to help and how can you help 693 00:42:17,630 --> 00:42:19,670 who should reach out to you and why? 694 00:42:20,030 --> 00:42:21,140 Like I said earlier, 695 00:42:22,100 --> 00:42:26,270 it is not a specific type of brand. 696 00:42:26,840 --> 00:42:29,210 It is anyone who 697 00:42:31,010 --> 00:42:34,490 is maybe struggling to define a mission for their brand, 698 00:42:36,320 --> 00:42:39,410 a brand who might just be starting up in the space, 699 00:42:39,740 --> 00:42:44,180 but also brands who are just looking to 700 00:42:45,290 --> 00:42:47,780 engage with their customers in a different way. 701 00:42:48,050 --> 00:42:51,020 So we provide everything from, 702 00:42:51,770 --> 00:42:55,220 like I talked earlier about the minimum level of brand offering. 703 00:42:55,790 --> 00:42:59,300 We can help you establish a brand from the start. 704 00:42:59,360 --> 00:43:03,050 Or if, I don't know, say for instance, 705 00:43:03,050 --> 00:43:06,380 you're looking to do a refresh of a brand, 706 00:43:07,400 --> 00:43:11,690 really start focusing on a mission. We are here to assist you. 707 00:43:13,160 --> 00:43:18,020 There's other ways in dealing with the tariffs too and the uncertainty 708 00:43:18,320 --> 00:43:22,010 thinking about testing and 709 00:43:23,570 --> 00:43:26,360 really increasing the conversions that you have. 710 00:43:26,720 --> 00:43:29,420 You still have the same traffic that you had yesterday, 711 00:43:30,170 --> 00:43:33,860 but how are we going to get those people to convert more? 712 00:43:34,250 --> 00:43:38,270 We can assist with AB testing, conversion rate, 713 00:43:38,270 --> 00:43:40,040 optimization testing, 714 00:43:41,090 --> 00:43:44,330 and even if you're looking to maybe switch platforms, 715 00:43:45,140 --> 00:43:47,030 we are a shop wear partner 716 00:43:49,570 --> 00:43:51,290 and we work with Shopify as well. 717 00:43:51,290 --> 00:43:55,550 So anyone who might be out there looking to make a little bit of a 718 00:43:55,550 --> 00:44:00,320 change and start thinking more about their mission both 719 00:44:00,380 --> 00:44:04,640 internally in the organization as well as externally to their customers. 720 00:44:05,810 --> 00:44:08,960 So from the branding piece to the technology piece, 721 00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:12,950 you guys have really built and been involved with some very complex 722 00:44:13,850 --> 00:44:14,900 technology deployments. 723 00:44:14,900 --> 00:44:19,520 You talk about the AB InBev app and some of these things. 724 00:44:19,520 --> 00:44:24,110 You guys have really executed and delivered some very complex 725 00:44:25,070 --> 00:44:26,090 technical solutions, 726 00:44:26,090 --> 00:44:29,180 but you're also good at the branding piece and tying that in with mission. 727 00:44:29,180 --> 00:44:32,250 And so really, really good. So how can people find you? 728 00:44:32,250 --> 00:44:33,540 So if someone's listening to this and like, Hey, 729 00:44:33,540 --> 00:44:37,170 I want to talk to Mickey and Carrie Edison, how can they find you? 730 00:44:37,500 --> 00:44:41,550 Yeah, so we are as send a 731 00:44:41,550 --> 00:44:44,790 YSN d.com, 732 00:44:45,090 --> 00:44:47,520 our Y is you. 733 00:44:47,520 --> 00:44:51,900 It's all our clients that we serve so they can reach out at hello at 734 00:44:51,900 --> 00:44:54,060 Ascend and talk to us. 735 00:44:54,060 --> 00:44:58,800 And we wanted to offer all of your listeners a chance to connect with us 736 00:44:58,830 --> 00:45:03,540 and let's test out this conscious commerce maturity 737 00:45:03,540 --> 00:45:04,373 model. 738 00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:08,970 We'd be happy to do an assessment for where they're at and share their level 739 00:45:08,970 --> 00:45:10,770 with them and 740 00:45:13,470 --> 00:45:15,900 how they can level up in their business. 741 00:45:17,010 --> 00:45:21,990 We can help look for those gaps and opportunities for them if they're just maybe 742 00:45:21,990 --> 00:45:24,690 even feeling a little bit stuck and not even sure where to look. 743 00:45:25,470 --> 00:45:26,280 Yeah. 744 00:45:26,280 --> 00:45:31,140 And you guys have such a keen eye for what's actually going to move the needle 745 00:45:31,140 --> 00:45:35,100 with a business, and here's what you're trying to do with your brand, 746 00:45:35,100 --> 00:45:37,590 but I don't think it's resonating. And so here's how we need to pivot. 747 00:45:38,280 --> 00:45:41,940 You have a breadth of experience and technical knowledge and brand knowledge 748 00:45:41,940 --> 00:45:44,160 that tied together is a really unique thing, 749 00:45:44,490 --> 00:45:46,470 really unique offering and unique skillset. 750 00:45:46,470 --> 00:45:51,360 And so A YSN 751 00:45:51,360 --> 00:45:54,870 d.com, check it out. And are you guys on the socials as well? Sorry, 752 00:45:54,870 --> 00:45:57,630 I butchered that. But are you guys, you're on LinkedIn as well? Both of you? 753 00:45:58,530 --> 00:46:02,340 Absolutely. Instagram, LinkedIn, even Facebook, 754 00:46:02,340 --> 00:46:06,060 you can find us. And we're always putting out 755 00:46:07,680 --> 00:46:11,700 value and advice for people, so definitely follow. 756 00:46:11,700 --> 00:46:16,170 Us. Cool. So reach out, get that maturity matrix assessment, 757 00:46:16,170 --> 00:46:18,660 see where you fall on that. And hey, 758 00:46:18,690 --> 00:46:22,260 now is the time to stay mission driven. 759 00:46:22,650 --> 00:46:27,000 Stay the course. Look for ways to pivot and stay profitable. 760 00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:31,050 Reach out to good partners like Ascend or like OMG. 761 00:46:31,440 --> 00:46:33,690 And with that, ladies, thank you. 762 00:46:33,690 --> 00:46:37,590 Thank you for bringing your knowledge and your experience and for your time and 763 00:46:37,590 --> 00:46:38,730 keep up the good work. 764 00:46:39,630 --> 00:46:42,150 Thank you, Brett, thank you so much for this time. Yeah, 765 00:46:42,300 --> 00:46:44,550 thank you for having us today, Brett. We appreciate it. 766 00:46:45,240 --> 00:46:49,020 Awesome. Absolutely. And as always, thank you for tuning in. 767 00:46:49,440 --> 00:46:52,350 We'd love to hear from you. What would you like to hear more of on the show? 768 00:46:52,350 --> 00:46:56,430 And if you've not done it, please leave us a review. That always makes our day. 769 00:46:56,700 --> 00:46:58,890 And with that, until next time, thank you for listening.