Good to see you again.

A warm welcome back to The Heroes Behind the Badge podcast.

We tell real stories about real cops.

We expose the fake news about police and we always give you the real truth.

This podcast is brought to you by Citizens Behind the Badge, the leading

voice of the American people in support of the men and women of law enforcement.

For more information about how you can get involved, it's citizens behind the Badge org.

Hi, I'm your host.

I'm Dennis Collins.

I'm a founding board member of Citizens Behind the Badge and a

Law Enforcement Father, please say hello to my colleagues today.

None other than Craig Floyd and Bill Erfurth.

Biller Erfurth is a retired Miami-Dade lieutenant, 26 years of decorated

service, and a founding board member of Citizens Behind the Badge.

Our fearless leader is Craig Floyd.

Craig is the founder, president, and CEO of Citizens Behind the Badge.

You may know Craig as the founding CEO Emeritus of the National Law Enforcement Memorial and the Police

Museum in Washington D.C. I hope you guys are ready for an amazing story.

We have, as always, a very special guest today, sheriff Mike Neal.

Mike is a highly decorated law enforcement officer with a long history of public service

before being elected Sheriff of Monroe County, Arkansas in 2012.

Mike served four years in the US Navy, two years as a naval reservist.

He spent 11 years as a firefighter.

How about that?

Retiring at the rank of Captain Neal began his law enforcement career

in 1992, working in the Howard County Sheriff's Department Jail.

However.

Let's go to May 20th, 2010.

In the blink of an eye, Wildlife Officer, Mike Neal's routine patrol with the Arkansas Game and Fish Commission

transformed into a heart stopping confrontation that would test every ounce of his training and his courage.

Neal unexpectedly found himself face to face with two cop killers in a Walmart parking lot.

He made a split second high risk decision.

That most wildlife officers never have to make in their whole career,

that would forever his life and the lives of those around him.

This is a true story of how a small town wildlife officer became a national

hero and why his story continues to inspire and amaze us to this day.

His brave actions earned him behind.

In law enforcement, three medals of the 2011 International Officer

of the Year, and the Congressional Medal of Valor from President Obama.

But it's the story behind the medals, the raw bravery, the quick

thinking, and the kind of heroism that Hollywood dreams are made up.

Sheriff Mike Neal, thank for you for your many years of service as the law enforcement officer.

Thank you for being a member of the Citizens Behind the Badge Law Enforcement Advisory Council.

You are truly a hero behind the badge.

It's our pleasure to have you with us today to tell your amazing story.

Bill, Craig and I have been talking for the longest time about asking you to join this podcast.

So thank you.

Thank you for taking the time to join us.

I guarantee you, Mike, we have more questions than time will allow today, but I'd like to start it

off by asking our fearless leader, Craig, to ask the first question.

You, Dennis and Mike.

Let me say, what an honor, it's to have you on our podcast.

as Dennis said, heroes Behind the Badge is the name of the show, and,

if there ever is to be a hero, behind the badge, it's, Mike Neal, in.

I think it was October of 2010, the National Law Enforcement Officer's Memorial Fund made you

our officer of the month, and I had the, privilege of meeting you,

a year later at our annual officer of the month, luncheon that we did.

And, I learned your story.

you are, the epitome really when it comes to law enforcement.

I think of certain hallmarks I think of.

Dedication, I think of courage.

I think of selflessness.

I think of men and women who are more concerned about the safety and welfare of others than themselves.

And I think the story we're about to tell, really, exemplifies, what law enforcement is all about.

And that's why I was so proud to, make your story.

Have your truck that was involved.

our viewers will get to know that story in a moment, and, really make that story a permanent part

of the National Law Enforcement Museum when we opened in 2018.

And I know Bill, my colleague here, went on to make you a movie star.

he did a, tremendous documentary that, told your story.

Bill any, opening, remarks here for, our good friend Mike?

So good to see you again, Mike.

And just, as Craig had just said, we did the Heroes Behind the Badge Documentary, and we did that a number of years ago.

That Mike's story is featured in it.

It's an amazing story.

It's something that everyone should see and know about.

And I just wanna tell you something about my friend Mike.

Mike's story is truly.

Some crazy ass ballsy shit, just to put it bluntly.

It's a story that everybody needs to hear.

So Craig, take it away.

Mike, take us back.

May 20th, 2010, approximately 11:36 AM there's a traffic stop in West Memphis, Arkansas.

two police officers came on the scene.

this is really what started the whole story in motion, and it's a tragic story with, a lot of heartache.

But, a lot of courage too and a lot of inspiration.

So talk about the traffic Stop that Got, set all this in motion, please.

Yeah.

it was, they used to call those the routine traffic stops.

in today's time there's nothing routine in anything that we do, and it never should be.

If you're an officer, it should never be a routine, but.

Back in the day, it was a routine.

Traffic stop.

Wasn't much to it, just a dirty old white van.

the tags didn't match up.

Officers pulled it over.

They were a drug interdiction team, and old game warden terms.

They were out there kicking over rocks, looking for snakes, basically.

And, they, kicked a rock over and they found some bad snakes.

Is.

It

was Officer Bill Evans, I believe, who was the first officer on the scene.

and then he called for backup.

and, so actually he never came along.

He never called.

There was no traffic, in between the two of them.

So that goes back to the leadership, and leadership on branding powders.

His part, he was a sergeant on duty and Bill had been out and he was

running traffic and, it was, it was Brandon's part to go check on his, kids.

that he's watching over and there wasn't any traffic in between the two of 'em.

He just pulls up on the traffic stop, starts to learn the information and.

at the point in the videos, he starts to take control of the situation and things start going south.

I remember the story.

the driver of the car, a guy named Jerry Kain, and his son was with him, Joe Kain, 16 years old.

And these were members of the Sovereign Citizen movement.

I. Now, for our viewers that may not know, sovereign citizens,

do not have any respect for the government, or their powers.

he, for instance, did not have a driver's license.

He didn't think, sovereign citizens, should be required to have a driver's license.

He did not register his vehicle.

And he had a brick of marijuana in the car and two outstanding warrants for his arrest.

bill Evans discovers all of this and, gets Jerry Cain out of the car.

and I suppose he is attempting to make an arrest, is he not?

Yes, sir. I thought he was doing his investigation and, I, teach a class on this and this incident and

how important it is, to watch body language, body movements and things.

The whole time when he gets the suspect out of the vehicle.

I don't ever use his name 'cause I don't believe in publishing their names, but he, they're not worthy of it.

But when Bill gets him outta the car, I. He takes control of the TUR traffic stop the movements that he does.

He doesn't wanna be on camera.

He knows he is on camera, and he walks around to the back of the vehicle and, gets outta camera frame

and, tries to get the officer outta camera, frame the entire traffic stop.

So he.

He, tries to take control and in some ways he does at that point.

And it's important for officers to realize what's going on when

you're talking to suspects and, their body movement language.

'cause a lot of times they're gonna tell you what they're gonna do before they do it.

And their movements, honestly, and this is a prime example, he gives him, as soon as he steps

outta the van, he gives him that thousand yard sta sizing him up.

he's looking at him, can I take this guy or is it, do I need to move on?

FBI statistics show that, that they do this to us.

But I guess he felt like he could, he makes his first mistake when he gets out of the van.

You watch the video closely, the door closes behind him.

He stares Bill Evans down, sizing him up, and then he immediately turns to go back to the van.

And what does that tell you?

As an officer, it should tell you something's in that van he wants or wants to protect, honestly.

and then the door shut, he realizes I can't get back in the van without a commotion.

So let me play along for a second.

And then they, move to the back of the van.

So they have a, a scuffle.

obviously, the, father, starts to resist, and engages him in some, hand-to-hand combat.

and they end up rolling down the, bank into a ditch.

And at that very moment, and we have some video to show this.

The sun gets out of the car.

The 16-year-old with an AK 47, what happens?

Let's run that video and show it.

Brandon died right here.

Bill actually died, 16-year-old kid, and that ditch right there

and they calmly drive off.

After shooting and killing two police officers.

it was brutal.

I think after everything was done there, there was something like, How many shots?

I think they shot both of the officers, more than a dozen times.

Brandon Powder, I'm looking at the numbers here.

Shot 14 times.

14 times.

Thomas Evans or, bill Evans, I'm sorry.

eight times shot and killed.

and they left them, lying on the roadway there in the ditch.

and then they drove off.

and then.

In a freakish coincidence, Brandon Powder's father, who is the chief of police, of the West Memphis,

Arkansas Police Department at the time, happens to drive, To the scene.

he was on his way on a vacation with his wife who had just

gotten out of the hospital after suffering, I think a heart attack.

and they were on their way to a vacation when they stumbled upon the scene,

and have no idea that it's his son that had just been brutally murdered.

And I think Bill Evans was, he a nephew?

I, think there was a relationship there as well.

Is that true?

Cousin of that?

Yeah.

So at any rate, now you've got the father, the chief of police driving upon

the scene and, and he sees his son lying there dead in, the, on the roadway.

we have video of what it was like for Chief Powder to, to come upon that scene

and, how he was affected by that moment in his life that he'll never forget.

Let's run that video.

I saw that Brandon lying on his back,

had been shot several times and he was facing up, and I walked up to him and I stood over him looking down at him,

and

my entire life just drained outta my body.

At that point, I would just.

It was the worst day of my life.

I was looking down at my son that had just been shot,

and I was standing there trying to decide what I needed to do and what

I needed to do as a police chief and what I needed to do as a father.

cra Crazy.

Crazy moment there.

And, I understand that, that the chief did everything he could to keep his wife at bay and in the vehicle because

he definitely did not want his wife to see her son in that condition.

And, and so it all unfolds and plays out from there, Mike.

Now the manhunt begins, the bolo is out.

Everyone's looking for this vehicle.

Where are you and how did you find out?

So I'm just out on regular patrol as a game warden.

I'd been outta the truck for a few minutes.

as a game warden you don't see very many game wardens 'cause

they're, spread out and they have to cover a lot of territory.

But I covered seven counties and I had communications with all seven counties.

So when I got back in the truck, all those radios were talking.

I was like, what is going on?

I had no idea what was going on.

And that's when I started learning the events that had happened, that

there was two officers down, most critical incidents that you debrief.

The main component in that is the breakdown of communication.

And this was no different.

they started putting out the information that it was a stolen white church van, with a MS 13 gang in it.

armed with AK 40 sevens and it was a head on the drug interdiction team.

And that's, what I responded to.

That's the call that I knew that I was going to, and I remember driving

and I pulled over on the side of the road and started preparing myself.

I grabbed an old vest, put it on, I grabbed my rifle out the

rack, hung it around my neck, put it in my lap, just slung it.

And I started driving.

I was pretty good ways from West Memphis at that point.

I told a little bit of a white lie.

I called my sergeant and I said, Hey, I know what's going on in West Memphis.

He was in West Memphis.

I told him, I said, I know what's going on there.

I'm pretty close.

Can I come help?

And I was game warden close.

I was over an hour away, but, nobody had to know that at the time.

And he said, yeah, get over here as quick as you can.

And that gave me the green light.

And I, lit a torch to the truck and drove as fast as the truck

would drive all the way to West Memphis to get in a gunfight.

But at, that point, Mike, did you know that, they had

spotted the vehicle in this parking lot of the Walmart or No, sir.

Or were you just hoping to find it yourself?

No, we, we had no idea where they went.

And in the time of events here, from the time of the murders to the time that I get involved is about 90 minutes.

We're about an hour and a half.

So all the way over, I'm thinking, what if, how are we gonna do this?

How are we gonna handle it?

How are we gonna find these guys and hunt 'em down?

and then you got somebody on your other shoulder saying they're already gone.

They're not there, just a normal day.

That kind of thing.

And it was nowhere near a normal day.

it wasn't until I got into town actually was about to run outta gas.

I pulled over at the Horizon, shell gas station there in West Memphis, was getting fuel.

didn't realize even where I'd stopped.

but God has a way of, getting your attention and this was one of those moments.

Where it was time for me to focus and, 'cause I, if you know me, I'm a DD blonde haired, just all over the place.

And this was one of those heated moments that I needed to focus.

And as I was fueling my truck, I looked up and I could see the crime scene where Bill and Brandon were.

And it was, man, it was like, even, man, 15 years later, it's still like a kick in the gut.

it was a hard punch, but it.

What I needed at the moment to get focused.

I sure as heck didn't realize what I was about to incur.

I was in town a total of 15 minutes before I was in a gun fight and had no idea that was even coming.

So here you are, you're, driving around like everybody is.

Everyone's looking for this vehicle.

You're in this heightened sense of awareness and the adrenaline's pumping.

You come into the Walmart parking lot, let's play that clip.

When I started into the

parking lot and the gunfire started, I immediately

transitioning the rifle up into the windshield and started towards them.

The bullet started coming through the windshield.

They shot this pillar out completely.

Some of the rounds were coming over my head.

My headrest had a bullet hole in it.

I had laid across the console.

And was returning fire pretty much from the passenger seat.

And in the picture you can see the bullet holes stair stepping

coming across to the point he found where I was inside the truck.

And that's where he concentrated his fire at that point.

And I was doing the same thing to him.

Luckily I was able to get to him before he got to me.

Talk about that.

So here you are, you see what's going on.

They're actually engaged in a gunfight with some sheriff's deputies, I believe.

you see what's going on, you decide I'm just gonna crank this fricking truck up and get it going

as fast as I can through this parking lot, and I'm just gonna.

Crash the shit out.

These guys, you know what, what's going on?

You got the rifle up.

You're ready to fire as you're approaching them thinking that you're gonna ram their vehicle.

You're firing through your windshield as they're firing at you.

It's just wildness.

Talk about it.

Yeah, it was, it was a showdown, that's for sure.

I've always had that reputation that I'll use whatever means I have to, win the fight.

I'm not gonna play fair if I don't have to.

And I will hit you with my truck.

I've hit many since then with my truck.

it is a tool and I will use it as such.

And I teach my deputies the same thing.

We can replace the truck or we can't replace you.

game and fish taught us in the academy to shoot through our vehicles.

so that's what we did.

We knew, it was pretty cutting edge training back then, to fire through your windshield.

it's, being done now, but it's still not as popular.

but I knew it would work.

And as I was approaching them, I could see them firing on officers in front of me.

And I knew at that point that it was time to stop the killing.

'cause in my mind they'd killed two this morning and they'd killed two more right in front of me.

And I was, here to stop.

So as I'm approaching, he's standing out of the van and that's when I transitioned.

I pulled my rifle up, so I'm real redneck in this.

I got a left hand on the steering wheel and I got my rifle in my right hand and I'm charging in the battle and he turns.

And if you look at the video close, you can see him turn around and look at me.

And then he gets back in the van and starts backing up.

And I thought, I'm gonna hit you as hard as I can.

You're not getting outta here.

And I don't think they expected that they weren't expecting somebody to crash into him.

I played football my entire life.

I was a linebacker, so I took the fight to him.

I, I was a head hunter in football and I head hunter in this.

So at the last second, I remember them turning that van sideways.

I thought, oh, I got you now, I thought I'm gonna hit you and you're gonna roll over and blow up.

'cause that's what Michael Bay taught us.

Some bad boys, you hit somebody hard, they roll over and blow up.

So I was fully expecting it and it did not roll over.

And it didn't blow up.

They were immediately on the guns.

As soon as I hit the driver, pivots any seat.

Turns around.

what I know now is a, Taurus judge.

Back then, I was looking down the angry eye of an RPG as far as I

was concerned, and that's where I fired my first two rounds.

first two rounds, struck him here and here in the head with a, 2, 2 3.

So I knew, that gunfight was over.

And a gunfight, you're looking for three things, electricity, plumbing, and structure.

You knock out the electricity, the fight's over.

I knew that fight was finished, but I didn't know how many were in the van.

I immediately started taking gunfire.

This is after we've crashed into one another.

We're seven feet from one another.

He's shooting an ak.

I'm shooting a 2, 2 3, and the rounds start coming in the glass and shrapnels hitting me in the face.

I dove over in the passenger side and that's when I hit my head

on my laptop, split my forehead open, and give me a concussion.

And I was taking shrapnel down my left hand or left side.

My hands, my hip, and all I could remember thinking is Shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot faster.

And that's when I started returning fire and I think I wound up hitting him 22 times.

I was shooting, green tip, so it was going through my windshield, through the seat, through him hitting the door

and going through the door and hitting the concrete post on the other side.

So it was like little needles shooting through him.

that's why I talk about the plumbing.

if you can't shoot the electricity, you go for structure and plumbing,

but the plumbing, it takes a while to turn off electricity.

So he was able to continue fighting, and I remember thinking, why are you still shooting at me?

You, should not be shooting at me.

And that's when the sixth sound of my weapon going dry.

It clicks, I'm laying on top of it.

I'm still being shot at, I'm still taking incoming rounds, being hit with crap.

in those kind of situations, if you don't train for em's, not gonna happen.

You'll either rise to your level of training or you're gonna fall to your level of training.

At that point, I fell to my level of training and I was not able to reload my rifle.

honestly, looking back and studying things, it was probably a good thing.

my guardian angel was taking care of me, so that's when I decided it was time to evacuate Dodge.

And I threw it in reverse and held the truck to the floor and to my surprise, it was still running.

I went to backing away from the scene and did some free landscaping from Walmart.

I didn't even charge 'em.

Cleaned out all their bushes with my truck and some woman backed out and hit me.

I don't know what her deal was, but, that's my story.

I'll stick to that one.

She wasn't even in the car.

I backed into her, but, and that's when you see me exit the truck

and go behind the truck and take cover and try to do some self aid.

So let's talk a little bit.

Lemme add some, let's talk a little bit more about the truck.

So the truck's a big pickup truck.

It's your law enforcement police vehicle pickup truck.

You got a ramming bar on the front of the truck.

We're gonna talk about this.

Craig's gonna bring it up because, that's one of the beautiful

centerpieces at the National Law Enforcement Museum is your truck.

And, it's incredible because you look at this.

And as you had said, the, bullets are stairs stepping through the windshield

and, your windshield, it's just plastered full of gl of bullet holes.

So, you're in this pickup truck, you got the ramming bar on there.

The truck, the, truck's damaged in the front, but you exploded into this van of theirs.

How fast were you going?

state police estimates about 55 miles an hour.

and, you didn't, you crashed out, the adrenaline probably took over the, yeah.

Besides the seatbelt.

Never felt saving you from that.

I didn't even have a seatbelt on.

The airbag didn't deploy.

I didn't have a seatbelt.

That's what knocked be into the center section of the truck.

Honestly.

Wow.

It was the end because I broke the steering wheel with my body.

Went to the kind of the radio and air conditioner control system.

I was in that part.

And that's where I started firing from.

So I wasn't actually sitting in my seat when they started firing into the truck.

'cause that's what they were shooting at, was the, cockpit where I should have been.

Did you have a vest on Mike?

No sir. it not one that was stopped.

7.62, but 39.

So I had a soft body armor.

I was wondering about the impact on the steering wheel if you broke it.

I'm just thinking that the trauma to your body must have been, tremendous

and if you had a vest on it, it would help save your life in that situation.

It would've helped.

Yeah.

I was sore for a while and messed up my elbow, my left hand from holding on, but I still have problems with it.

15 years.

Mike.

Hey, Bill.

Yeah, Bill, I, found out that, I did a little research and,

Mike fired approximately 30 rounds into their vehicle.

and, the father was shot 18 times.

18 times.

He hit him.

The sun was, shot eight times.

So this is a pretty good shot.

he gets off 30 rounds and, and basically almost all of 'em hit their targets and, those two end up, dying eventually.

But, those stats are just amazing.

And then how many, I think there was at least, Close to 20 gunshots,

in your vehicle, Mike, that, mainly through the windshield, right?

Yes, sir.

Yep.

Straight through the windshield, through the back, through the

seats, everywhere I should have been, had bullet holes in it.

Unbelievable.

God was looking out for you that day, my friend.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

Crazy.

Crazy.

Craig and I are on the same page here, because that was exactly what I was

gonna talk about, how many rounds that were filed, fired, and quite frankly.

We'll talk about this a little bit more, but everybody's gotta see this, truck of yours, it's and it's on full display.

It's, one of the highlights at the National Law Enforcement Museum in Washington, dc So I

want to talk to you now more about the warrior mindset, right?

Cop to cop, people that have been in the military, people that have

been in these critical high risk situations in law enforcement.

there's something to be said about nothing is more exhilarating than the hunting of another human.

And the reason that I say that is when I was working and I was in the warrants

bureau, in the fugitive section on the wall, there was a quote, a famous quote.

It was actually from Ernest Hemingway, and I'll, read the whole thing eventually here.

But it was something, and we, would look at it and it was like, nothing

is more exhilarating and dangerous than the hunting of another man.

And it was one of those things that was on the wall that always reminded me like a sports team.

Like a football team and they all go out and they touch that sign or that, that

motto for from their college or the, or a hockey team that does the same thing.

And it, and it reminds you of your mission, let's say.

So let's talk about that whole heightened sense of awareness.

You say you put the vest on, I'm probably sure you're sitting up, and, the adrenaline's pumping and

you're sensory overload, and you're looking around and everything because you know that it's about to happen.

That shit's gonna hit the fan, right?

Let's, talk about that.

Let's talk about that whole thing about how there's nothing more dangerous or exhilarating than the hunting of

another person, an armed, and let's qu, let's qualify that and say the hunting of a criminal rabid animal.

it's unbelievable experience.

The, adrenaline, like you say is, will make your body do things that

you couldn't imagine and absorb things that you couldn't imagine.

And this was no different.

just like the impact.

I never, I don't even remember the impact, honestly.

I never remember being scared.

I remember at one point in that gun fight.

I couldn't hear anything.

I, never heard my rifle go off.

I never heard theirs, but I could hear the cracking of the

truck, the truck coming apart and the bullets coming through.

I can still hear those sitting in my chair, and I can hear my buffer spring

inside that, that rifle going, Ching, And knowing that he's on the other end.

Putting rounds same way into my truck.

It was, it's an unbelievable feeling.

thank God I was able to live through it.

but yeah, the, adrenaline that lasts for a while, but when it stops, you're down.

You better be ready 'cause you're gonna be taking a nap.

I've been on multiple calls like that where we've hunted people and you're right.

hunting another person is, unbelievable.

'cause they possibly have the skills that you do and you, don't know what you're up against.

that, that adrenaline dump after the situation is, Crazy.

if, no one's ever experienced it, and then it's very few people that

experienced that except maybe first responders and, military type people.

And it's just something that I thought we should talk about because it's certainly a different mindset and

you have that mindset because just because you're in the military or law

enforcement doesn't necessarily mean that you can rise to that occasion.

And you rose to that occasion in a number of ways, and I know Craig

is gonna talk about that because this wasn't your first rodeo.

And then you also do some training that we're gonna talk about.

But I wanna read this quote to you because I think it's an amazing quote, but this is

from, this is what I referenced earlier that we have on the wall.

It was something that as soon as you walked out the door, you looked at this.

Because when we were chasing fugitives.

You are hunting people, essentially.

And so Ernest Hemingway says there is no hunting, like the hunting of man, and those who have hunted armed

men long enough and liked it, never care for anything else thereafter.

It's pretty heavy duty.

I don't hunt, I don't, fish.

I don't either.

No, I.

what's the thrill of putting a salt lick out and luring a deer to it and shooting it?

that's not shooting back at you.

It's not gonna kill you's, not evil, mean, the hunting of man.

There is nothing, that can compare to that.

I've never heard that quote, but that makes a tremendous amount of sense in my life.

So I love it.

Looked by that.

How does a fish and wildlife officer, which you were at

the time of the shootout, not fish or not hunt, that's wasn't game.

Morden strange, wasn't great.

I wasn't a greatest game morden out there.

they'd say, what kind of fish is that, Neal?

I'm like, oh, it's a dead fish.

I don't know, so I had a lot to learn.

Mike, this is interesting because, one of the stats that I, cite quite often be showing that most law

enforcement officers will go their entire career without ever firing their weapon in the line of duty.

and there was a survey once, not too long ago that said 73% of the

officers surveyed had never fired their weapon in the line of duty.

Probably never would.

you're different, you're a different breed.

and you certainly have that warrior mentality that when push comes to shove and, force is necessary and

heroes need to step forward, you seem to be the one to do that.

And you told me you've been involved in six shooting incidents in your career.

the one we just described being one of them, obviously, but.

Tell me about the other five.

I can't imagine any officer being involved in six shooting incidents.

Yeah, that's, I'm that magnet kind of a guy.

But this is a, something I like to tell officers is if you're not hunting evil, evil will hunt you.

So you always have to be looking and hunting evil because it's

gonna catch you on the day that you're not hunting evil.

And that's where officers get in trouble.

That's where they get H hurt.

And I've quoted this even in the, documentary is, it's not a matter of if this is gonna happen,

it's when, especially in today's times and those, stats are gonna

change, I feel 70%, never get into a gun fight or any of that.

I feel like those are, probably changing as we speak because the violence in this world today is unlike it's ever been.

so viewers listen up.

It's not a matter if it's when you're gonna get into this and you better be ready for it and

hunt that evil, but like you said, I've been in six incidences where gunfires occur, or death.

LA latest one was in August with the US Marshals, where they were ambushed and shot to pieces.

With a 300, a guy was shooting an automatic 300 blackout at us.

even if sheriff.

I still get shot at for some reason.

So it's it's that mentality of when it's going down, when the fight is there, I wanna be there.

I wanna be a part of that.

I know what I'm doing.

I don't know if you know what you're doing or not and move over and let me in there.

I'll take care of it.

It's that kind of mentality that gets guys like me in, trouble, puts us in firefights.

So I.

I think that's, that simply makes you a leader, right?

You're a leader.

And that's why I started this off saying, this is truly some ballsy shit that we're gonna talk about here.

And it takes somebody like you and that mentality to be a winner and to survive.

You.

You think about her, we've done some quotes her stated, for every 100 men.

80 of 'em shouldn't even be there.

10 or nothing.

But targets, nine are warriors, but one of them is the ultimate warrior and he'll bring you the rest of them back.

And that's what you have to be today or anytime in law enforcement to be honest with you.

Wanna be that, guy, you have to be that warrior.

You have to have that mentality or you're not gonna go home to your family.

And if you don't have that mentality every day when you

wake up and go to work, that not today, I'm not dying today.

This is not my day.

I'm going home to my kids, then you're probably in trouble.

So you better get the mentality and, get the training and keep your butt in gear.

So Mike, you

you mentioned to Craig, you mentioned to all of us about, about training and about that mentality.

It's not if it's gonna happen when, but when it's gonna happen.

And we got a clip of that.

It's a good clip.

Let's play that.

Everybody should hear it.

And I, say it's, kinda like being a prisoner that day.

It's always gonna be with me for the rest of my life.

I tell other officers, in training, I say, it's not a matter of if

it's gonna happen to you, it's when it's gonna happen to you.

And if you're not thinking that way, you might wanna start.

If you don't wanna start, you might wanna reevaluate your job because.

Look at me.

I'm a game warden.

Look what I got in.

it's not.

when you were talking there, Mike, I, couldn't help but remember a story.

I, was, at a restaurant with my wife and, the waiter was a young guy and

we, got to chatting about what his, plans for the future were, et cetera.

And he said to me he had, originally applied to become a police officer at his local police department.

and he was, in the academy.

then, a young officer on the first day on, on the job was shot and killed in a, neighboring, county.

And what he said to himself?

I don't think I wanna be a cop anymore.

and good for him and I, applauded him for coming to that realization.

Good for him.

But I think it's, something that maybe some people

don't think about when they apply to become a police officer that.

you gotta be prepared for those, moments where courage takes over and leaders step forward and heroes become heroes.

And I think, anybody thinking about a police career needs to be thinking in those terms.

But knowing that most officers, the vast majority are gonna go their entire careers, probably

never fire their weapon, probably never get into a gunfight.

The, likes of what we described here today.

You gotta be prepared for that moment and and hopefully people

understand that when they take on the job, as you've explained.

one thing that.

Go back to was the traffic stop.

obviously we have years that we've looked at that traffic stop seen the video, we know what happened, but what,

in your mind, could have been done differently by those officers that might have, changed things for the better?

it's hard to imagine a guy's got an AK 47 and he's willing to, lose his own life, to take yours.

how do you deal with that situation?

I don't think they could have stopped it, per se.

maybe a little bit more officer, security minded.

They got a, maybe a little complacent.

I'm not gonna say they were, they didn't take the, boys a threat honestly.

and going back to training, you never turn your back on gunfire, first of all.

So if you watch the videos.

The boy comes out and the first person he shoots is Bill Evans.

And Brandon's standing there and Brandon reacts to the fight.

And then the fire gunfire starts, and then Brandon goes back to old

school training, get gain, cover, return fire, those kind of things.

And I teach law enforcement now on the range.

You don't have time.

There's sometimes you get caught and you don't have time to get covered.

And the best cover down range is what lead.

If you're putting accurate shot placement on them, they're not shooting back accurate at you, I promise you.

So when the gunfire starts, you immediately turn to the gunfire, return fire, those kind of things.

Those kind of training and mindset and having that tool in that tool belt when these things happen are, so important.

Never turn your back on gunfire, there was a second there where the boys weapon malfunctions.

He has to stop.

And you think about his mindset, you wanna talk about mindset.

That boy was very dangerous.

He's 16 years old.

He's, attacking two armed law enforcement officers that are trained.

And he didn't have any hesitation in him.

He stopped, clears a weapon in the middle of a gunfight.

I've seen officers cross the us it couldn't get it done at training, much less in a gunfight.

He stops, clears a weapon, and then starts shooting again.

But in those two or three seconds.

if we'd had that appropriate training, I think Brandon could have ended it.

I think he could have broke leather and had a couple of shots on target.

And, this day would've probably changed dramatically.

Honestly.

what's really interesting about what you said and how policing and the world has basically evolved.

As I remember, I was a, new sergeant and one of the guys on my squad had, Punched and knocked out a 14 or

15-year-old teenage boy that attacked him, and everybody was like, woo, buddy.

Oh my God.

You just put your hands on a teenager, you knocked some kid out.

And at the time, that was a really big deal, putting your hands on a kid.

Fast forward to today.

Kids are shooting each other in schools.

Yeah.

Crazy ass shit.

And kids oftentimes now are, and from that point forward when that happened,

when he punched him and knocked him out, kids are more volatile out of control.

They don't even think of the repercussions and, can clearly be dangerous.

And the public has gotten to accept that now, where before it was almost a little bit taboo.

You're

exactly

right.

maybe to, come to a, bit of a closing here, but I wanted to

make sure we acknowledge two people that we didn't talk about earlier.

and that was Sheriff Dick Busby and, his Chief enforcement Officer, chief Deputy Wa Ren.

those were the two officers that spotted the, van in the Walmart.

Parking lot, got involved in the initial shootout there and were critically injured, both of them.

and it was really Mike Neal ramming his vehicle in into the assailants that, saved their lives.

they very likely would've been shot and killed, if, those, bad guys had their way.

Mike just, wanted to acknowledge, your heroic efforts there to save their

lives, but also, The sacrifice that Dick Busby and wa Ren made in this incident.

Mike, you and I, got together at that officer of the month luncheon in 2011.

And we honored you for what you had done in this incident we described here today.

but one thing you said to me that day, yeah, you knew we

were building this national law enforcement museum at the time.

it was still seven years, in the making.

but you and I didn't know that.

All you knew was that you wanted your story, your truck that was used in that, critical shoot out with these, evil.

Men and, 16-year-old son, in that museum, to basically make a statement that, this is what officers sometimes

have to deal with, and that the public sometimes doesn't fully appreciate the

level of, selflessness the, sacrifices that officers are, forced to make.

I talked about it at the intro.

I said, Any, good officer, and there are about 800,000 of them in this country, must be willing

to put their lives on the line for the safety and welfare of others.

In other words, you've gotta care more about the people you're trying to protect than you care about yourself.

And I think that's what your story, that's what that truck and that museum is all about.

that truck is on permanent display and your story is on permanent display in the National Law Enforcement Museum.

I don't know if you knew this, but, the exhibit installers, the

people that created all those exhibits for us and, took all the.

equipment and, artifacts that are on display.

They said putting your truck on the platform that it now sits on, was

the toughest part of building the National Law Enforcement Museum.

we, did it.

Welcome to my life.

Yeah.

And

was it easy?

And more so than the helicopter that hangs in.

There's great,

more so than the helicopter hanging from the rafters.

But, you, went through a lot of machinations to get us that

truck and, make sure that we could, just put it on way.

Were they gonna crush it?

Tell story.

Yeah.

They were gonna crush the truck.

So yes.

Glad they

so much better use of it.

Crazy.

so wait, let's, we, can't forget, we can't forget to talk about Mike at the White House.

No.

Congressional medal.

That's the Valour winner.

Yeah, that was, that was a lot of fun.

I was, a old game warden say, and I was a fish outta pond, that's for sure.

They, they called us over redneck to come to DC and I showed up in Class A or it was an honor guard uniform.

I was on the honor guard.

I looked like the country pimp had showed up to the white

man.

I was so nervous being there.

I was waiting in the wings and they were, telling the story to call me up and it's all on YouTube video.

You can watch it.

they called me up and as I'm walking up here, I thought, man, I'm gonna give the vice president a coin.

So I start digging in my pocket.

don't do that when you're walking up to the president.

First of all, that's not a good idea.

You can get shot.

But, I pull outta coin and I, I hand him the coin.

surprised.

We talk for a second.

I turned around and faced the crowd and Joe reaches over to grab the medals and I thought I should go to parade rest.

So I go to parade rest and I throw my arms behind me about the time he's reaching over me to put the medal

on him, and I force Gump the vice president on national television.

I hit him right in a junk and he said, oh, in my ear.

And I thought, oh my God,

Yeah, that's, that's the way Mike Neal's life is just gotta fly by the seat of your pants here.

But.

we got some great pictures that, that we see you there getting them pre Presidential

Medal of Valor and we've got some great pictures that, actually it was you, Craig and I altogether, yeah.

At, the dedication of the National Law Enforcement Museum standing up above that truck.

So those are some, great memories.

Good memory.

Billy and Craig and and Mike, I have to step in at this point.

We could go on Mike for the rest of this day and for several other days.

Every time I hear your story repeated, it brings back the same feeling I had when I saw it for the first time.

And it is amazing.

I. A lot of the things you said today.

I hope our listeners, our viewers, were listening carefully to what you said.

I think the key phrase of the day has to do with mindset.

Has to do with mindset.

It's not, if it's gonna happen, it's when it's gonna happen.

That's not only a lesson for law enforcement.

That's a lesson for life to be prepared and, You know what I kept thinking as you were talking?

Thank God you weren't, eliminated.

Your job wasn't eliminated by defund or defame the police or whatever.

This BS is going on.

You were on duty.

Thank God that day.

Just think about that.

If you, Mike Neal hadn't been on duty that day, who knows what would've happened?

And that's no slight or no inference to any law enforcement, but you saw what needed to be done.

You did it and you finished the situation.

You completed your assignment.

Little did you know when you started that day, that would be part of your assignment.

I doubt that is inspiring.

That is motivating.

I hope other law enforcement officers will listen to your story.

Again, it's been out there, but again, and never forget it because it is a real lesson.

We need law enforcement officers in on patrol out in the streets, taking care of business even though

they don't even know sometimes what the business is gonna be.

They're ready for it.

you are truly a hero behind the badge.

What a great story.

Thank you for sharing it with our listeners and viewers.

this has been an interview with Sheriff Mike Neal.

He wasn't always a sheriff.

He recounted today what happened to him, what, 15 years ago, right?

A fateful day occurred.

If you haven't heard the whole edition of this podcast, wind it Back, rewind it and listen to it.

You will not believe this story.

You will not.

So this podcast, by the way, is brought to you by Citizens Behind the Badge, the leading voice of

the American people to support the men and women of law enforcement.

if you would like more information to join the.

Hundreds of thousands of your fellow Americans who are

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It's citizens behind the badge.org.

That's Citizens Behind the Badge DO org.

Please join us in our efforts to highlight heroes.

Like Mike Neal, so that we never forget.

We'll be back soon with a lot more stories.

We've got a lot of real stories about real cops coming up.

We promise to always tell you the truth about law enforcement, and

we promise to blow up the fake news promulgated by the media.

Thanks again for watching.

Thanks for listening.

It's Dennis Collins.

Craig, Floyd and Bill Erfurth will be back next time with another great, heroic story.