>> RB: Foreign.

>> Jonathan: You guys out there that just hit play. You're

tuning into a fresh new episode here on Chasing

Birdies. Or is it of Chasing Birdies? Whatever it

is, it is. But you're here. We're here. My guy.

What's shaking, baby?

>> RB: What's going on?

>> Jonathan: It's good seeing you, dude. It's good seeing you.

>> RB: Let's do some necessities before we get into this,

but, uh, today's episode is brought to you by Red

Vanly. Make sure you go over to vanley.com, check

them out and get yourself some fall swag. It is

amazing out there right now playing golf. Um, we

had a fun little Friday, which we'll get into.

>> Jonathan: Shoot, that was good.

>> RB: I do want to say, I mean, bud, happy birthday. I

know that it was on Sunday. I mean, there was a

post that was out there that caught us all off

guard. We thought the birthday was Friday. Not

everyone read everything.

>> Jonathan: That's a problem sometimes people.

>> RB: And I just want to wish you a happy birthday.

>> Jonathan: Well, thank you, man. I appreciate it, man. I got

one more year in the threes before I go to the big

four zero, but.

>> RB: You want me to start planning that for you, bud,

or what?

>> Jonathan: You know what? You should.

>> Jonathan: We should.

>> Jonathan: That'd be something great to talk about, but I

gotta tell you, dude, I was, um. I think I bought

myself the greatest gift that I could have bought.

And you're not gonna believe what it is, but I

bought myself a back washer. Like a six foot pole

back washer. Because I'm tired of being in the

shower.

>> RB: Is this the one that you put on the. On the wall

and then you just put your back against it and

it's. It spins?

>> Jonathan: No, it's just like this long brush that has like a

bendable neck and m. It's easy to reach places.

But dude, I'm tired of like watch wash. Trying to

wash my back. And like, I'm. I'm not. I'm a

little. My movement's not great. I can't get

behind there and I'm like, hey, buddy, you need to

start washing your back. So I got a nice little

back washer. I've been using it every day. It's

phenomenal. Actually. Looks great. My back looks

great. So, um, that was my gift to me before I

turned 40. But 39 is off to a great start. Dude,

that's great. Uh, that's great. So good. I'm

alive.

>> RB: Happy for you. A backwasher. I mean, that's one

thing. You wonder how many people don't Wash your

backs. Because they get to the point and they're

like, you know what? I'm not doing this.

>> Jonathan: Yeah, you can't.

>> RB: It's.

>> Jonathan: It's tough, man. You know, it's very difficult for

people, uh, so. Including me. So.

>> Jonathan: Yeah.

>> RB: And now, I mean, I've got a hairy back. So you

gotta like, get in there. Because some things

could be living.

>> Jonathan: Yeah, that's right. You ever see the commercial in

the morning? It's so gross. It's like this drug

commercial for like crusty eyes. And it's like,

yeah, you could have these little guys living. And

it's like showing these little, like, creatures

that can live in your eyes. And I'm all. That's so

disgusting. Does that even happen? It must grow.

>> RB: It's. I feel like it's more with the kids, though.

My kids have some crusties in their eyes in the

morning. And, uh, we get them out for him though.

Can't send them off to school looking like that.

>> Jonathan: And the dogs, dude, you got to take care of the

dogs. Like my dogs, I make sure they don't have

eye boogers.

>> RB: I love getting it off of a dog's eye. It's like,

it's really hard and you pull it off, it's a

little satisfying. But, um, any hooser, let me.

Before we get into anything, I got a vent. I have

a bone to pick with the university out there.

>> Jonathan: Oh, I can't wait.

>> RB: Okay. It's been a struggle. It's been an uphill

battle for the boys over the last week and a half.

Not on the baseball side. I've been on the

baseball train for like the last three weeks and

I've been killing it. On Saturday, we took a four

game parlay, um, three hit of the four. The fourth

one was Indiana versus Michigan State minus 26. We

took Indiana minus 26, 28 points. Michigan State

is down with 25 seconds left. And what do they do

instead of just kneeling it? They kick a field

goal. So let me ask, if you were to kick a field

goal, why not just go for the touchdown? Because

neither one of them matter. Neither one of them

matter.

>> Jonathan: That's sickening.

>> RB: So we lose the whole parlay by one point. Because

even if, you know, we would have won, but we lose

by one point because Michigan State couldn't just

lose by 28. They wanted to lose by 25.

>> Jonathan: Yeah, I stopped watching that game because I saw

Indiana was dominating. And I figured, you know,

in the fourth quarter they were up. They were up,

I don't know, 21:28. So I'm like, this is it. You

know, And I was more worried about that Georgia

game, too. That was a great game. But I'm thinking

we're.

>> RB: We're.

>> Jonathan: We're headed to the promised land. And you sent me

that text right as I'm about to sit down for

dinner, and you said, can you believe this?

Michigan State kicks a field goal. 25 seconds

left. I was so by 25. Talk about vomit. I'm like,

are you kidding me? I didn't see any. You know

what? We should look that up. I need to see if. If

there's any bad beat conversations about that,

because I'm sure a lot of.

>> RB: Clearly, clearly Michigan State had the under, so.

>> Jonathan: Oh, uh, a lot of interesting things, though.

>> RB: Any Hooser?

>> Jonathan: That's a great man.

>> RB: Speaking of the Hoosers. Oh, that football team, I

mean, out.

>> Jonathan: Of the blue, right?

>> RB: Well, uh, not really. They were good last year,

but they're damn good. He's unbelievable wherever

he goes, you know? Is that the next Penn State

coach is Nick Saban?

>> Jonathan: No. I don't know. James Franklin.

>> RB: Lane shot, though.

>> Jonathan: I don't.

>> RB: I think Lane Kiffin goes to Florida.

>> Jonathan: Well, it's going to be another carousel season for

these coaches. That's a big void out there. You're

talking about a team that was ranked preseason,

what, number three, four, two, two? I mean, Drew

Allard certainly kind of affects that pretty bad.

>> RB: Well, and I mean, you went to the semifinals last

year.

>> Jonathan: Yeah.

>> RB: And the other thing is, you think about it, people

don't realize that day at Ohio State would

probably. If he didn't win the national

championship, the whole thing like he did, he'd

probably be gone, too.

>> Jonathan: Yeah.

>> RB: So, um, those big boy programs, you got to perform

and, uh, when you're number two, preseason.

>> Jonathan: And then we got our black and gold boys, which,

um, ironically, today's guest coach, Dick LeBeau,

joins us today, which is phenomenal. So we'll get

to that interview here in a couple of minutes.

But, um, that was gut wrenching. And listen, I was

talking to Deddy earlier this week, and I said,

hey, bud, I said, look, as bad as that loss was,

you kind of knew something like that's going to

happen this year.

>> RB: I took the Bengals.

>> Jonathan: Oh, I know you did, but it's all good, man. It's

just the way it is. I mean, and last Sunday, with

all these crazy games, the Broncos come back, Sean

Payton. Skylene is probably stoked right now. You

know, she got. They got the dub, 33 unanswered

points. Or not answered, but 33 points in the

fourth quarter. I was a record.

>> RB: It's great to see the Broncos win in again. And

like you said, Skyline's probably ecstatic, so.

>> Jonathan: And then you got the. The just all kind of good

stuff happening. And you have been on a great tear

with the mlb, so keep that up, man. Keep. Keep us

posted on that.

>> RB: Um, with our guest today, do you think that

defensive performance would have happened with our

guest Today, Coach Dick LeBeau? 88 years young

man.

>> Jonathan: I think coach would have reamed some people out.

Where's the pressure, Coach? And honestly, he's

probably sitting there watching two of his teams.

He says in the interview he watches the Bengals,

the Lions, and the Steelers. So that night was a

good night for him. He got 2. 1. And he probably

was going, what the hell is happening? These guys

aren't getting any pressure out there. I don't

know. I'm not a football player, so I don't know

the ins and outs of it, so I'm not even about to

critique it. But just from watching it as my

perspective, I thought that, like, where. Where.

Where are our guys? What are we doing here? What

is happening right now? Joe Flacco, what's going

on?

>> RB: Yeah, I mean, he was with the team for 10 days,

and he diced them up pretty good.

>> Jonathan: Did you see. Was. Was it true that Flacco, when he

got traded from Cleveland to Cincy, he flew Spirit

Airlines?

>> RB: No, but that's, like, been, uh, when I was in.

Since I was in Cincinnati when the trade happened,

and they drove him down, like. But they're not

flying Spirit Airlines from Cleveland to

Cincinnati.

>> Jonathan: Yeah, there was something. They were just poking

fun.

>> RB: And I'm willing to gamble if Joe Flacco is doing

that, he. He ain't flying on Spirit, but he's

flying on, uh, pj.

>> Jonathan: And before we go, um, you and I played lcr. Left,

right, center, left, center, right, whatever.

Nemacollen and Farmington, Pa. We had five of us.

Our buddy Mason Williams, who is doing it right

now on, uh, the pro level of golf, played with us,

joined us. I had a blast, dude. That was one of

the most fun rounds of golf I had in a long time.

We did not know what was going on at the time.

We're arguing over, is this one more left than

that one? You know, all kind of weird shit, but

that was a blast, dude. That was an absolute

blast. And I think you making Matt George go look

for his ball on 18. Over the hill, over the

guardrail. You guys getting Chewed out by the car,

asking you why the hell you parking the carts in

the middle of the road? Meanwhile, it's a, uh,

it's a resort road that goes. We weren't even

miles an hour near.

>> RB: The middle of the road. We were tires in the

grass. You could have drove a tractor trailer by

us. That guy was a complete douchebag. Um, but I

do have to talk about Matt George, and that was a

blast that whole day. Okay, on number five, Matt

George and I end up being next to each other. Uh,

he lays up to about 90 yards, which. Okay, great.

I'm, like, thinking he gets a pop here. All he has

to do is get this on the green, and we're. We're

golden. Well, I proceed to hit 4 iron to, like,

what, 7ft?

>> Jonathan: 12Ft.

>> RB: Yeah, 12ft. So 12ft. I have an eagle putt from.

From there. Matt George is 90 yards in, and my man

made eight for seven. And thank the Lord, I ended

up making. Well, I mean, I would have two putted,

but I made the eagle, which means we went 38, 37,

and flipped everybody else to their numbers. But I

will give Matt George some credit. He birdied, uh,

8, 4 for 3. So he made a little net eagle. And

then we were partners again on 11, and he made a

birdie 4 for 3, net eagle. So I do give him credit

for bouncing back.

>> Jonathan: Good times.

>> RB: Um, I did try to avoid him on a hole on number

seven. I purposely hit it away from him because I

was just. I had a bad taste in my mouth. I needed

a few holes to gather myself. Uh, uh, to gather

myself, and he bounced back. So I give Matt

credit, bud. He. He did. He bounced back.

>> Jonathan: Yeah. That's what it's. That's what it takes. That

was fun to watch. Fun to watch you chirping,

everyone. Fun to watch Mason shoot a effortless

68, 69, whatever. He shot 36, 33, and some putts

that I know he wish he had back, so. But with that

being said, guys, coach Dick LeBeau is here today

on Chasing Birdies. And enough of us talking.

Let's just get it over here to this interview on

Chase and Birdies.

All right, you guys tuning in out there today on

Chase and Birdies? Um, this is. This is very

special. This is a very special moment in time for

us because we've done a lot of great guests over

the years. Uh, but today's guest is a cut above

the rest with, uh, a legend here, coach Dick

LeBeau joining us here on Chase and Birdies.

Coach, we so Appreciate you sitting down with us,

carving out some of your time, uh, to talk life,

golf, a little bit of football. So I want to thank

you right now for being on here and I look forward

to really having a great conversation with you.

>> Jonathan: I'm looking forward to it too, Ryan. Uh, thanks

for having me.

>> Jonathan: You know, I think I was talking with Pep a little

bit before the show and I said, uh, I wonder

what's, what's harder for coach. Is it, is it

trying to read a quarterback before a game or read

a downhill five footer sliding to the right? I

don't know.

>> Jonathan: I think I had a little better insight towards that

quarterback. I never could quite figure out what

that putt was going to do.

>> Jonathan: Um, I think we're all in the same boat with that

in terms of the putting.

>> RB: So are you joining us from Nashville?

>> Jonathan: No, I'm in Cincinnati. I live in Cincinnati.

>> RB: Oh, nice. I was just there last week. Blue Ash?

>> Jonathan: Uh, yeah, well, it's right next door. I, um, live

in Montgomery, which is. You can walk to Blue Ash

from where I am.

>> RB: Very nice.

>> Jonathan: Spend a lot of time in Blue Ash.

>> Jonathan: So you coach, you know, going back into your, your

career. You know, not only as just a coach, but,

uh, ah, hell of a football player. Cornerback. You

know, at one point in time he had the record for

longest consecutive games played, uh, with the

Lions. And um, you know, being in your position

where you are now, is it troubling to see, or is

it exciting to see how the game's changed so much

since, since you were not only coaching but, but

as an active player yourself?

>> Jonathan: Well, you know how, how everybody is, man.

Everything was a lot better when, when I was

playing. Uh, we're all victims of our circumstance

and uh, our era was always the best. If you. And

most of the time, uh, if you check athletic

records throughout the history of our country, at

least every 10 years they get a little faster and

a little bigger and a little better. And so I

guess the athletes probably operate in a little

different speed and a little different size,

certainly because the human race is just

continually done that with all the scientific

improvement that we've made. But, uh, I think our

game was a better game. I think we should play it

on grass. In fact, all the stadiums were owned by

the baseball team, so we had to move pitchers

around most of the time to play the game. But, uh,

it was played, uh, outdoors in a natural

environment. And uh, it's a better product. It's

more exciting when they score a bunch of points.

But I was always a defensive Player, uh,

particularly professionally in college we had to

go both ways. But uh, as a pro player and coach I

always kind of leaned on the defense. So I'm not a

big fan of 51 to 49 games. You know, I kind of

start breaking out in hives. But uh, most of our

games were 13 to 10, uh, a lot of 10 to 6 games.

Uh, and if it was raining, it might be six to

nothing, you know. But uh, uh, it's a better game

now. They can sell more spinach on tv.

>> RB: So I mean do you feel like back, back when you

played it was more of like a defensive battle than

it is now?

>> Jonathan: Uh, I don't know. Uh, the way I coached I would

always get a hold of the new rule changes every

year, which they occur every year. And the first

explanation that I would give to our players is

that, look, you can do this or do that. Him and

hall, everybody's got to play by these rules. And

this is the game we're playing now. And it's up to

us to figure out the best way for us to do this

and to gain a little bit of competitive advantage.

So I always coach not complaining about the rules.

Uh, but I do wonder now in current circumstances,

if a defensive back at 187, which was me, is

meeting Jim Brown in the hole at 236, which was

him, how am I going to get him on the ground if I

don't go low and hard through this guy? And if he,

if he happens to dip, we're going to crash, you

know, so I haven't figured that one out. We're

targeting, uh, you know, it's, it's good that

they're trying to be safety first. I like that.

I've always liked that as a player. That was the

first thing I checked to see. Did they help us out

any in knocking out some of these situations where

players get hurt more easily? And that uh, that

will always be, I think a goal of the National

Football League, the ncaa, of everybody involved,

uh, you know, with your state, uh, educational

athletic associations throughout the country. And

it should be um, but they should keep an eye out a

little bit for the defense, you know, like ah,

blocking below, uh, the waist. And again if you're

coming up, uh, I'll use this incidence in

particular, uh, Jim Parker was a great uh, guard

for Ohio State. He ah, was a couple years older

than me and Jim played for um, Baltimore for a

career. He's in the hall of Fame. And when I got

into the NFL, although we were teammates in Ohio

State. I played for Detroit, so we were opponents

and in those days there was a lot more running

than there is today. And the formations were not

quite as controlled, contrived, and there were

more compact formations. So, uh, probably 75% of

the time, uh, the corners were forcing runs,

making them go back into the linemen and the

defensive lineman, uh, and the linebackers. So I

would, my job was on all these professional sweeps

where they pulled the inside, uh, lineman out and

Parker was a guard, was to come up and meet and

contain the ball. Against Jim Parker and I was 187

and he was, you know, 278 and could run like a

deer. So now I was always a little bit quicker

than these big guys and I'd set them up and cut

them down and that'd be the end of it. But that

would now be a penalty. So I would not be for that

rule in particular.

>> RB: You'd have little lighter pockets with all the

fines.

>> Jonathan: Huh?

>> RB: Huh?

>> Jonathan: Yeah. Yeah. Uh, I guess everybody can tell you the

tough end of the job they got. You know, every,

everybody's job's got a little dirt in. It's what

I always used to always tell our players. We,

we're going to rush to pass or I'm going to get

this guy free, but somebody's going to have to get

doubled up. I'll try to get another defense in the

next snap where you're not the guy doubled up here

to God free.

>> Jonathan: Yeah, that's, it's, it's fun to watch, you know,

from our perspective because naturally, you know,

Jonathan and I, we, uh, we're just football fans.

You know, we're from Southwest pa, I live in

Morgantown, West Virginia. Uh, a die hard

Mountaineers fan, which we've had our sharefare

troubles over the course of the years, not only in

football, but basketball as well. But m. You know,

being in this part of the country, it's Steelers

country and that's kind of what we were brought up

on. And that's still what we, we live and die by

on, on Sundays. But um, just watching the way the

game has evolved even since I was younger, you

know, watching a quarterback position change, the

way it's changed today, it's, it's got to make

people like you, you know, hall of Famers like you

in your own right, look and go.

What has happened to this game that I once played

not that long ago? It's completely different.

>> Jonathan: Mine is different. It's a different game. And um,

I think when you look at the value of the

professional franchises, they're on the right

track for sure because it's a very popular game

incidentally from your guys Hometown. I was 16

years in Pennsylvania so uh, spent a lot of time

Pittsburgh. Pretty tangent to both of you. So it's

a beautiful country and good people. My experience

with where you guys are from, uh, as far as the

game, you know, I guess you take baseball now, uh,

that they hit the ball out of the park all the

time, you know, that's crazy. And uh, it's, they

know what they're doing, they're getting a better

product for people to watch and uh, you know, who

am I to complain about it? But if you were part of

the evolution of the games, uh, you kind of long

for the old, for the old days. But that's just

part of being human I think.

>> Jonathan: Yeah.

>> Jonathan: And I'm perfectly aware of how the game got to be

where it is and it's so popular and uh, you know,

football is probably the uh, nation's number one

sport. When I was a young man it was baseball and

uh, it was our national pastime. But I uh, think

you'd have to say it's football now. And uh, maybe

some people would argue with that. But that's

again the right to be an American. Take your own

opinion.

>> RB: Exactly. And with, with the, how popular football

is, obviously we're seeing this year. You know,

the Steelers played in Ireland. Now they're,

they're. I feel like the last three weeks they've

played in London. You know, these teams are

traveling across the pond to get over there. Is

that something, you know, when you worked on staff

you're like oh, this is not fun. That we have to

basically go halfway across the world to play a

football game when we could just be playing it

here. Do you feel like that they're trying to make

this game too big?

>> Jonathan: Well, I don't think they'll ever be anybody who

says I got too much money. I don't think you're

ever going to see anybody say that. And, and uh,

as long as there's money to be made and at the

professional level that's what they're doing. And

uh, there's definitely going to be franchises over

there. I think they just got to figure out the

transportation, uh, situation and science will do

that soon enough, I think.

>> RB: Oh yeah.

>> Jonathan: But uh, I never paid again with the rules. I never

wasted my time complaining about it. When they put

out the schedule, that's the schedule. This is who

we're playing. Right. And uh, let's, let's see how

we can best do this to get an advantage for our

team.

>> Jonathan: But you know, and I promise you Coach, we are

going to get into golf talk. This is what we do.

We like to, you know, we like to talk with our

guests a little about what they have accomplished

and then we tie it all into golf. Because I

understand you're a pretty good golfer yourself.

Um, but you had the, you single handedly coach

some of the greatest defensive players to play the

game. I mean going back to Rod Woodson, Carnell

Lake, all the way to Troy Palomalu, James

Harrison, I mean these guys are legends as well.

You know, that's got to be such a proud thing at

this point in your life to look back on and say,

gee, look, I had the opportunity to coach these

types of players, win a Super bowl with them, um,

because those guys were, that was it, the Steel

Curtain.

>> Jonathan: Yoel I don't overlook the fact it's a blessing. My

whole career has been a blessing. Uh, if you go

back to when I was old enough to start following

the National Football League, it was just after

World War II and the League itself was really in

his very, uh, earliest stages really of

development and expanding. Uh, my first year as a

player, there were 12 football teams in the

National Football League and six in one division,

six in the other, in the 30. Now there's 32 in the

league and could definitely, probably be more uh,

if they had uh, the machines that could set up the

schedule. But uh, as I look back on my life, it's

been a blessing. And because of the span that the

good Lord has seen fit to let me uh, stay around

on the planet long enough, uh, well, let's put it

this way, uh, when the hall of Fame comes up with

committees that they do to pick all these awards

that they go from time to time and when they, when

they're going back to study the players from the

beginning of the league, they always put me on

that committee. I'm the only one around that has

eye contact with those guys. So I look at that as

a definite privilege and blessing. As for the

players that I've gotten to coach, uh, and uh, the

Steelers, I uh, was there 16 years, uh, I spent

uh, 49 years coaching in the National Football

League. So the film study and everything and

watching for the big early, early television began

from my memory right after World War II, which was

about 46, 47 when the first. You could go by the

window, the department store and they would have

these fantastic boxes that were showing you live

television shows. Of the games and watch them. So

I've got to see players from so way, way back and

actually see how they played. And um, uh, to put

the guys like Woodson and Lake and before that I

had a whole film library full of the Steel Curtain

and those guys. It was really literally, when you

look at that group of the 70s of the Steelers, one

of the best dynasties I think, in sports history,

uh, it wasn't a matter if anybody was going to

score any points on them, is were they going to

get a first down on them. And they were very basic

in what they did, but the players were so good.

And uh, it was a great lesson for me in that, uh,

you know, you don't have to be all that

innovative. Just be sound and make sure they

understand where their help is and how they fit.

And then the players, if you get the good enough

players, they're going to be able to get the job

done. And uh, that's what I was blessed with, with

our great defenses in Pittsburgh, uh, just great

players and uh, I never lost sight of that.

>> RB: Well, you talk about innovation and, and you were

an innovator yourself. I mean you basically

created the blitz. How did you come up.

>> Jonathan: Zone blitz. The zone, the zone blitz blitz has

been around since the beginning of football thing.

>> RB: How did you come up with the zone blitz?

>> Jonathan: Well, it was a, it had an evolving process, but I

was, I've always been a stat man and I, I uh, kept

track of every play, every defense that I called

throughout my career. Wow. And I would in the off

season, do the math on it. And how did this

defense hold up against this run, against that

pass? And, and I would try. This is just like I'm

a, used to be a avid, um, poker player. Poker is

nothing but odds. If you know the odds and you

keep, you can keep the odds in your favor, you're

probably going to win. You're not going to win all

the time. But I approached that with the snaps of

football and what, uh, plays were giving us the

biggest yield, what plays were costing us the

most, what plays gave us the most turnovers, what

plates cost us the most yardage, maybe even

penalties caused. What were you doing that put

your guys at risk of creating penalties? And I

approached it that way and I came to find out that

was pressure defenses. When you were blitzing

zero, everybody blitzed zero at this time. And it

was man to man. So that was your biggest sack,

plus that was your biggest fumble calls also

affecting the throw of the quarterback. It was

your biggest, uh, interception place. But Also

when you started looking over at the minus column,

it was you know, a mistake, one mistake because

everybody had a guy. It was always a plus 50,

sometimes a plus 70. It was the biggest gashes

were pressure because if somebody left a hole,

didn't get where he's supposed to get, the runner

was gone and everybody else was busy watching the

guy or getting and then he could turn it blocking

pretty easy. So you ended up with bigger plays.

And I thought to myself in looking at these

numbers, what if we could come up with a defense

that combined the two where we could get pressure

on the quarterback by overloading the protection

of the offense and still have a guy or two

somewhere who's had vision, did not have to have a

man to man responsibility and he could say, oh my

buddy fell down over there, that tells me right

away that his receiver is wide open, I'm going

over there and back him up. So the 60 yard play

becomes a 15 yard play and based in the numbers,

ah, proved out to be the way to go. So uh,

identifying that it was a safer way to blitz was

getting some air your players tied in with. It was

pretty simple because I had the math in front of

me. But uh, the why and how to do that. I have to

admit I went off the diving board into an empty

pool many, many times. That was the hard part

because uh, there was no database, uh, to follow,

there was no film to put on to watch. Oh well

here's what these guys are doing and here's where

they're messing up and we'll do this and it'll get

better. I had um, had to be all trial and error

and uh, I did it on the practice field and I just

remember the first one I ever called in a live

game. I had everything crossed that I owned and I

said I hope this don't blow up because if it does

my head coach is never going to let me do it

again. And uh, it worked. Uh, uh, it was a blitz

break off that. Everybody was using keying

patterns. If this guy blitzes, you break this

pattern, go over to there. And I trapped it with a

guy and sent another guy over the top to zone it.

And when he broke out he broke right to the corner

and the quarterback of course it was all timing

and already had the ball in the air and the corner

intercepted and it went for a touchdown. It was a

preseason game and ah, but I thought right there,

I thought right then, well there is some uh,

validity to what we're thinking about. So that's

how the, that's how it got started. Uh, there was

a. There was a coach named Bill Arnsbacher, and he

was an Ohio coach. And I always, uh, tried to

associate with the guys that I knew had gone

before me, but it came from my home state. And uh,

I looked him up. He was out of coaching. He was.

Actually, Bill was the coach, uh, of the uh, Miami

team, the defensive coach of the Miami team that

went unbeaten. He was a great defensive coach.

And, uh, he was. I think he was the athletic

director at the University of Florida. And I was

going around scouting, uh, for the uh, fall draft

of uh, the NFL. And I would go to see guys like

this and uh, I know they always had a busy day. We

wouldn't. Half hour, 45 minutes, we'd chat. But I

told him, I said, coach, uh, I said, I like what

you're doing with, uh, some overloading, uh, the

protection and getting pressure on the

quarterback. I said, I think that's the way to go

in the future. And he said, dick, he said, all I

was trying to do was even up the uh, odds a little

bit and find a safer way to blitz. I'm looking for

a safer way to blitz. And I had to leave him and

get in an airplane. And he was in Florida and I

was going to. My next stop was in California to

scout somebody from ucla. It might have been

Cornell Lake who was pretty decent player.

Incidentally, you mentioned earlier, Cornell, you

know, Woodson, probably the best corner, uh, I

ever saw. But Lake might have been the best

defensive back I ever saw. He made All Pro as a

safety and he played for ucla and he played bump

and run on the tight end. That was the old Bear

defense, was real popular that the Bears won the

championship with. And you had your safety up on

the line of scrimmage, playing man to man on the

tight end all the time. And that was Carnell,

because he was big enough to play him and fast

enough and strong enough play to run and cover

him. M all over. Well, he made All Pro as a Bear

safety up on the line. And we ended up with, uh,

an injury situation where we were run. We just ran

out of corners and I put him at corner for a whole

year. He made all pros of the Corner Indian

National Football League. We're talking here. So,

uh, the Carnell. Nobody talks about it. Everybody

you mentioned, Rod Woodson, anybody that knows

anything about the Steelers. Oh, yeah, I know

Woodson. Of course. Woodson was a, uh, worldwide

track champion. I mean, that's how rare of an

athlete he was. Who could also play football. I

went to watch him play his senior year at Purdue,

and he played half the game, uh, as their tailback

running the ball. And, uh, it was against Indiana

that was always their big rivalry. And he, uh, was

remarkable. But anyhow, uh, I had those kind of

players and I, uh, was going out to scout a UCLA

player and I got sidetracked there open. You got

to bear up with me. I got a lot of memories flying

through here. But on that plane, you know, they,

in those days they served you halfway decent meals

and stuff.

>> RB: So.

>> Jonathan: And I said, could I have some extra napkins,

please? She said, yes.

And she said, do you want cloth? And I said, no,

I'm going to draw on them. Bring me paper napkins,

please. So I sat down there, uh, in a nice little,

you know, took some time in the air to get from

Florida to California in those days. And, uh, I

started drawing up some stuff about safer ways to,

to use, uh, some of the pressures that I knew

would overload the, uh, offensive protection. And

uh, you see men, the offense knows the. They get

in the huddle or they signal and they know to

play. They know the snap count, they know the

formation, they know how many times they're going

to shift, they know how many times they're going

to motion. They know how they're going to try to

unbalance the formation to take a, uh, steal a man

or two advantage on you. They know all that coming

out of the huddle. And a defender, he got to get

all that from his visual cues as they snap the

ball, as he sees them coming out of the huddle

from the film that he studied. But he does not

have the advanced knowledge of where that guy's

going and what it's going to be. Maybe they're

going to throw it to him and maybe they're just

going to hand it to the back. So all I was trying

to do was take that huge advantage away from the

defender and balance up the field a little bit.

And that's where I started. All the movement and

the disguising and stuff I didn't want. I said,

whatever. Whatever they see from us when they're

coming out of the huddle is not where we're going

to be. And, uh, that took a lot of work too. And

then throw in there, uh, changing up the coverage

and on pressure defenses, uh, like I said a lot of

things, I thought, oh, I thought that was a pretty

good idea, but it's not, you know. And so those,

those, uh, they evolved over a period of time.

Let's put it that way. But uh, the fact that

instantly I was rewarded by, by visual uh,

evidence that we were winning these downs, we were

making bigger plays, uh, Boomer Siason, who was

our great quarterback with the, with the Bengals

that took us to a Super bowl and was at the top of

the league for his career, wonderful player.

Quarterbacks are, it's a fraternity. And we were

playing Miami and Marino of course one of the

greatest quarterbacks ever, they were chatting a

little bit after the game, it was a preseason game

and I saw them chatting and everything. So uh,

when we got back in the locker room, assign us and

Boomer comes over to me, he says, I got something,

something to tell you coach, you probably want to

hear. And uh, I said well yeah, lay it on me. He

said well I was talking to Dan and that was in the

early days of the zone blitz. And I said uh, what

were you reading on uh, those pressures? Because a

big thing that you want to do as a defensive unit

is not let that quarterback have a clue as a pre

snap clue as to where you're going to be because

they'll all beat you. They're all throw well

enough, you're dead. If they know where you're

going or who's coming, you're dead. And uh, Boomer

said what were you trying to read on what Lebow's

doing? And Marino said, well they told me uh, on

the practice field who to look at and who to key.

He said, and after three plays I decided that I

couldn't read anything from that. He said, I just

started looking for who was open to had all my

guys jersey and not their jersey. And I threw it

to that guy. And uh, actually in the fourth

quarter of that game he came down and it was a

real low scoring game. We played them very well

but they beat us. Moreno of course in the fourth

quarter. But uh, I thought to myself, well if one

of the best passers that ever played the game is

saying, uh, he quit reading, that's what I'm

looking for. I'm trying to level it up for my guys

so he doesn't know exactly what to do with the

ball and now you're going to get him to make some

mistakes. And that was the reasoning behind it.

Uh, I was lucky enough to get players that were

smart enough and agile enough and uh, unselfish

enough to run the defense and that's why those

guys were so good.

>> Jonathan: That's incredible.

>> RB: People don't understand in football like I don't.

I watch the game, I Don't know all the behind the

scenes things. And it's really interesting to

hear.

>> Jonathan: Well, it's, it's a, it's a chess, chess match,

really. That's right for the guys calling the

place for the guys playing the game. It's stimulus

response for them. But where to put them and, uh,

what looks to show them and to actually be at the

snap of the ball. I would tell my guys, I said,

look, sometimes I'm going to actually make it a

little bit harder for you to do your job because

we don't want them to know exactly what your job

is going to be. And they're going to have to try

to read it after the ball snapped. That was always

my goal, don't let him read anything before the

ball was snapped. And, uh, now I think it's

pretty, pretty common. You see that in defenses

moving around and shifting around. But at that

time I was old enough to be one of the first guys

to start doing that.

>> Jonathan: That's incredible. That's an awesome story. And,

you know, just the fact that you put it in motion,

you kind of bet on yourself a little bit. I know

you mentioned, you know, upsetting the head coach

potentially, but that's, that's crafty. You know,

a lot of engineering behind that. And that's true

for anybody. That's whether it's coaching or

business or even golf, whatever. You know, you

come up with the ideas. You got to trust it. When

you put it in motion, you have to trust it.

>> Jonathan: I thought it might work, but I wasn't sure.

Nobody's sure, I don't think, until you, you see

the visual proof. I went to Sam Weiss was our

coach and Cincinnati, and it was in the, uh, early

80s, about 84, 85. My first. Couldn't do it until

then because I was never the coordinator. You

know, you had to be the guy calling the shot, at

least on defense, and run that through your boss,

the head coach. So I went in, I went into Sam, and

Sam was an innovator himself. He was one of the

first, no huddle guys, uh, that he did everything

at the line of scrimmage and away they went. Uh,

and I said, coach, I said, I want to, here's what

I want to do. I said, I want to take a guy that

doesn't blitz very often a corner or safety, and

I'm going to blitz him and I'm going to take a guy

who almost never drops from the line of scrimmage,

a defensive tackle or a defensive end or a nose

tackle, and I'M going to drop him to an area in

the zone so I can balance out. Uh, all I was

trying to do was get more people coming from one

side of the ball without making everybody play man

to man coverage. And uh, most, most coaches, I

think if you came to them, whether you're going to

drop my 300 pounder and you're going to blitz my

190 pounder, I think they'd say do it for somebody

else, you know. But Sam just said, yeah, let's

take a look at it. And uh, that's when I started

doing it on the practice field and after I got

enough of the, uh, snags worked out of it where I

thought I could actually call it in the game. I've

already alluded to what happened there. The

quarterback threw the ball right to our corner who

scored a touchdown.

>> Jonathan: Yeah.

>> Jonathan: And that was, it was off and running from there.

>> Jonathan: So, being that you're from Cincinnati, and by the

way, I just want to say I've had a great time

getting to know your son Brandon over the last

year and a half. I think I met him through a

gentleman named Justin Peters, who I played with

at Pikewood national here in Morgantown. But at

any rate, I've had a great, a great time emailing

with Brandon for the last 14 months probably about

potentially doing this interview. But, um, being

that you're in Cincinnati and coach for the

Steelers, they're in the AFC north and one team's

on the top and one team's on the bottom, you know,

on Sundays, who you still kind of rooting for a

little bit more than the other.

>> Jonathan: I've got three teams that, uh, I pull for. I

always pull for the Steelers, always pull for the

Bengals, and I always pull for the lions. I spent

14 years up there and I left quite a few, uh,

broken bones and chipped out teeth in Detroit, so

I got to root for them. And then in college I got

to root for Ohio State because I got three whole

teeth laying on their feet field out there

someplace. But I, I, I have those teams going for

me and, and when they're playing each other, I

just sit back and watch and say, well, I can't

lose today.

These are all my teams.

>> RB: Yeah, well, all those Buckeye fans are pretty

excited with the most recent, uh, Penn State

announcement. So with James Franklin being let go.

>> Jonathan: Well, part of, unfortunately part of coaching

profession is you're going to come into work, uh,

on some mornings and your key won't open your

office door because, you know, your Persona non

grad. That's just part of the game. We used to say

in, in the back room, don't send your laundry out.

Just wake until you, till you get into the office.

You may not get in. Uh, it just, it's uh, we are

uh, even, even the colleges now in the

entertainment business and professional football

has always been in the entertainment business. And

uh, it's going to be ups and downs and part of the

downs are they're going to make changes. And uh, I

think that Franklin's an excellent coach. He's,

he's done a great job. He was coaching at

Vanderbilt when I went to Tennessee to work and he

did a wonderful job there. And if you look at his

record at Penn State, his record is pretty dang.

Um, good. I mean, uh, yeah, I know everybody talks

about you pick this game and that game and all

these, this guy's record. The reason that you

don't win as many games against teams that got

winning records is they're tough too. Yeah, I mean

uh, I'm always, I'm always going to take the

coach's side of all, all this stuff. I knew it was

a possibility but I hoped that they would stay

with him. Uh, but it's none of my business really.

And uh, I just, I uh, don't like to see a coach,

uh, who's done a good job, ah, in the majority of

his seasons.

>> RB: Right.

>> Jonathan: He loses, loses two games, uh, against teams whose

record, if you look at those two teams play now I

watched UCLA the other day when they had won a

game and I said that's not a bad football team,

you know. Yeah. And they, they got a quarterback,

it can do a lot of stuff with the football and

they can beat you. And uh, a football game lasts

like 70 plays on offense and 70 plays on defense.

And there's a lot of things can happen in those

particular 70 plays. And the winning team is

decided in just that parameter of 70 plays. And if

you were going to play a thousand plays, probably

that best team would always win out. But in a

matter of 70 plays where they drop a ball here and

create a fumble there and, and get a penalty,

clutch penalty there, the other, the other team

that maybe isn't quite as good as the other team

in strict football skills, they win. And that's

why, that's why we love football. Anybody that's

playing hard and fighting and trying, you got a

chance to win. And it's just the guy on the street

that doesn't have to get out there on the field

can say, oh, they're no good. We'll beat them

before three touchdowns. That, that doesn't work

that way.

>> Jonathan: No, no. You know, especially with college, because

it is, you know, you see some of these big heavy

favorites get taken, you know, in that game

specifically against Penn State. I think Penn

State were, they were 24 and a half point

favorites against UCLA, big favorites this weekend

against, or this past weekend with Northwestern.

But, um, yeah, anything could happen. You know, I,

my, the. I experienced the horseshoe for my first

time last year. I went to the Ohio State Tennessee

game, the first college football playoff game on a

Saturday night in Columbus. And when I tell you

that it was electric and unlike any sporting event

I've been to, that will, that will stay with me

forever. It was unbelievable. Unbelievable.

>> Jonathan: It is unbelievable and words cannot describe it.

You, you have to experience. It's a human

experience of, uh, the feelings of the human body.

And uh, um, we had, uh, I went, I'm from a little

town, London, Ohio, and I went to Ohio State and

made a team. And we had one other guy that was a

doctor of veterinary medicine in, uh, London named

Bill Hacken, who had played at a high school

state. And he was the only guy that I knew at all

that had ever played for Ohio State. And you

don't. These big schools and not, you don't just

walk on there and start playing. So he said to me,

dick, he said, just make sure when you first time

you run out of that south end of the stadium

locker room door and run out onto that field in

front of. At that time it was like 88,000, I think

at the 105,000 now. Crazy, but it's a lot of

people. He said, don't forget to feel uh, that

electricity that you soak it all in. So when I saw

him in a couple weeks later, he said, what did you

think? And I said, I said, coach, I was so excited

about being wearing scarlet and gray and making

the football team at a high state, I forgot to

even pay any attention to the crowd. But after

that, my next time running out, I said, oh man, I

see what he's talking about. But fortunately, when

you're playing in front of all those people,

you're not thinking about anything. If you, if

you're a really involved, dedicated player, you're

thinking about what's the huddle call? What's my

assignment? What's my key? If you're not focused,

you're going to get the uh, a vital part of your

body handed to you before it's all over. So you

really. It just becomes a practice Field, uh, the

same thing if you're actually playing out there.

But uh, when do you feel the crowd? When a play

makes a guy breaks a play or you make a play and

if the crowd erupts from and you say, now that's

electricity there.

>> RB: Tell you, I'll tell you, Coach. I, uh, I played

college golf at Marshall University, Thunder

Marshall Gray School. And uh, my dad said

something similar to me. He said, soak it all in,

you know, your first college tournament, blah,

blah, blah, go out and have some fun. And I made

double bogey in the first hole. So I soaked it in

real, I soaked it in real well.

>> Jonathan: I'm going to think about what I'm doing right

here. That's all you got time to do. Marshall, uh,

uh, we've had some great players from Marshall at

the, at the NFL level. It's a great school. And

golf is a game that uh, you have to shut

everything out or you're not going to hit too many

good shots because it's hard enough when you're on

a practice tee by yourself just hitting them.

>> RB: Well, there's a lot of similarities in golf and

football in the sense of you have to shut things

out, right. And just roll with it and, and let

your instincts take over.

>> Jonathan: Yeah, you got, you got a, it's stimulus response

and uh, you got a little longer to think in

football, I think because they're period in

between the plays. In golf, once you get upward

over it, man, that's gone in less than a second.

So you better, you better not think too much on

the way through, through that swing.

>> Jonathan: So how long now have you played golf, Coach?

Because I know it's in your blood a little bit.

>> Jonathan: Yeah, well, my, I, I came from a home with, uh,

two boys. My older brother was three years older

than me and my dad was a golfer. So when my

brother became old enough to caddy, he was my

dad's caddy and I wasn't. But being the youngest,

as soon as I became big enough to caddy, I became

the caddy. So cat in for my dad and cat in for him

in the club championship matches and things of

that nature. My dad was a wonderful scorer. Uh, he

could get the ball in the hole from any place and

he would, uh, play guys that could out hit him by

a sizable amount. He invariably would end up

beating them. And uh, that was my uh, a education

in golf and B education in competing that, you

know, you don't have to weigh 200 pounds yourself

to, to win ahead one on one with a 200 pound guy.

Use your mind and use your quickness and your

athletic ability, and you can get your job done. I

don't care who's on the other side. That all came

from caddying from my dad and seeing him beat a

lot of guys that were, you know, physically a lot

more gifted than he was. But he, at the game of

golf, he was tough to beat. That's how I became a

golfer.

>> Jonathan: That's, that's, you know, and the whole thing,

like you just said, with your dad and that kind of

funneled down to you and, and now, you know, you

get to go on vacations and whatnot with your

family. You and Brandon get to go out and play

golf together. That's something he gets to

experience with his dad. Those are things that

I've experienced with my dad, Jonathan with his

dad. Jonathan's dad plays 300 rounds of golf a

year and has never had a hole in one. Can you

believe that?

>> Jonathan: Yes. Yes, I can. Because it's, it's, you think

about it, cups of four and a half inches, and it's

crazy. Yeah. And you're sitting up there, even on

the par threes, you know, you're gonna be 150 to

210 yards away from it. And, uh, if it ever goes

in there, you're lucky. And a lot of people never

does.

>> RB: Well, you coach in here for 16 years in

Pittsburgh. I mean, we have an absolute legend

that is from Pittsburgh and Mr. Arnold Palmer. Did

you ever have any, uh, cool run ins with him?

>> Jonathan: I got to play with Arnold several times. He was

actually a big Steeler fan, and, uh, that's one of

the highlights of my life. Yeah, I got to play

golf, uh, with Arnold Palmer, and. Wow, he made

you feel like you were the professional golfer.

You know, he was an amazing guy. And, uh, uh,

while you're on that, for topic of conversation, I

went to college with Jack Nicklaus and Tom

Weiskopf.

>> RB: Wow.

>> Jonathan: Wow.

>> Jonathan: Yeah, Jack was like two years behind me and. And

Tom was like two years behind him. And, uh, after

my first two years of playing for the Lions, I,

uh, had majored in accounting my, uh, first couple

years in college, and then I switched over into

education because I wanted to coach my last two.

So I had all these hours piled up, but I didn't

have enough majors to graduate, so I had to go

back and do a couple winter quarters to get my

graduation in. That's how I got to know, uh,

Weiskopf. Probably a little better than Jack, but

I played golf with them both, and in their era,

they were, I, uh, don't know, maybe 35, 40 yards

longer than the whole tour. And, uh, uh, I thought

to myself, ooh, I better really concentrate on my

back pedal player, because I'm not too sure. Sure

I'm never going to beat anybody hits a golf ball

like, like this. But, uh, that. Those were great

experiences for me because, you know, every now

and then I, I have a hole of two or three holes

where I'll play them, you know, and you would

realize that competition is something that comes

from inside of you.

>> RB: Yeah.

>> Jonathan: And if you, if you don't, if you don't give up and

if you keep, uh, focusing on what you know you can

do, you got a real good chance to come out ahead

of that guy that day. Now, if you play 100 days,

he, you're probably not going to beat him. But

you're not playing 100 days. You're just playing

right now.

>> RB: That's, um, that's, that's so cool. I mean, you

think about. You've played golf and that's the

game of golf, right? I mean, like Ryan said, you

know, I play with my dad and my, my son, who's 8.

We're all in the same group together. What sport

can you do that in? And what sport can you play

with the world's best. Jack Nicklaus, Arnold

Palmer? I mean, the stories you probably have from

golf alone are incredible.

>> Jonathan: Yeah. Because it's been such a large part of my

life. But, but, uh, I probably carry the ball

about in the air. 225 now maybe still.

>> Jonathan: Maybe.

>> Jonathan: Uh, but I'm 88 years old.

>> Jonathan: I know.

>> Jonathan: What other game could you come back close? I mean,

if I stay around 6,300 yards, I could reach the

holes. I can make a par on every hole that I play.

And how, uh, many, how many other competitive

sports can you say at 88, that's. You can still

play the game.

>> RB: You don't look at, you don't look.

>> Jonathan: A day over 88.

>> RB: I'll tell you that. You look great.

>> Jonathan: I do have good genes and thank you very much. I

thank my mom and my dad mostly for that.

>> RB: But it's incredible that you're playing golf at 88

and still hitting it.

>> Jonathan: Yeah, Yeah. I, I tell Jack I think I can out drive

you now, man. M. He's 86.

>> RB: That's incredible.

>> Jonathan: What's, what's awesome? Uh, yeah, I could totally

see you coach out there in, in a 35 degree day

playing golf and everyone wants to go in because

it's cold. And you're like, man, this is nothing.

I've coached in negative degree temperatures. Come

on, let's go chase some birdies right now. What

are you guys doing?

>> Jonathan: That's exactly, exactly correct. You are exactly

correct.

And Jonathan's dad and I are cut from the same

milk because I've got the record by far for rounds

played on my course. Uh, because once I retired,

I'm plane every day that ends in Y, unless it goes

of course down and it's not too cold. I was, I

worked from Green Bay for five years.

>> RB: Wow.

>> Jonathan: In my division, uh, was Detroit, Green Bay,

Chicago and Minnesota. They call it, they call it

the black and blue division. And I think they were

trying to say because it was a tough, aggressive

group of teams, but I think it was because of the

temperatures. There weren't any dwarfs in indoor

stadiums. We are outdoors every winter.

>> RB: Coach. You know, my, my dad, he tells us the

story, how many rounds he plays. He said, you

know, you know what the real question is? He said,

what did I do the other 65 days of the year?

That's what he's concerned about. What was.

>> Jonathan: Well, that was the days they didn't let you play.

>> Jonathan: You know, the, the, the, the greatest thing about

golf, coach, that I think is, and being a golfer,

I could say that I've seen it happen over the

course of the years. But the amount of influence

now that golf has received from uh, former

athletes or athletes themselves, you look at all

of these guys now that are playing football, NBA,

other sports, they all gravitate towards golf. And

that to me as a golfer and you know, growing up

playing golf and not playing the organized sports,

you know, everyone's always giving you a little

bit of hell for that. Like, well, you're playing

golf, big deal, that's not a game, blah, blah,

blah. Now it's like it's almost vindicated in a

way because everybody, not everybody, but

everybody wants to play golf no matter what. And I

think it's great.

>> Jonathan: Well, I do too. Uh, I think golf, the margin of

error is so precise in golf and that, that helps

even the playing field quite a bit. And it doesn't

matter what time you, how fast you run the 40 yard

dash. Can you put that golf head on the golf ball?

And uh, well, there was an old, uh, I'm a golf

historian. Justin is too. You guys might be too,

but uh, there was a guy named Poison, Paul Runyon,

who was like, I don't know, five foot four.

>> RB: Mhm.

>> Jonathan: And of course Sam Snead. In his era, nobody could

come close to him. He could outdrive everybody.

And that's a big advantage in golf. And I think

Runyon beating like 12 and 11 or something in the

PGA Finals, which was all match play, then the 36

hole final. But he made every putt that he looked

at. And uh, the quote came down from the

professionals. A man who can putt is a match for

anybody. And uh, the short game, it's just

equally, it's one shot, it's the same as that 300

yard drive. And I think uh, the other thing that

golf is important to me in terms of physical

activity is you can continue to do it. Now there

are a lot of things that will preclude your

playing golf way into your octogenarian age, we'll

say. But if you are lucky enough to stay healthy

and smart enough to stay halfway health wise,

intelligent, you play golf till the good Lord

calls you home, man. And you can't say that about

very many physical activities that can actually

help make your life better, make you walking down

the street easier, you know, it's just good for

you. It's a physical plus for you.

>> Jonathan: Mhm, Coach, that's what I try to tell my lady all

the time. I'm like, they have a different, they.

>> Jonathan: Have a different opinion cause it takes four hours

to play. I understand pal. Every golfer goes

through the same thing.

>> Jonathan: So you're going to be gone all day? No, I'm just

going to be gone for five hours. That's not all

day we get.

>> Jonathan: Well, one thing, I didn't meet my wife until later

in both of our lives. And uh, I said listen Nancy,

I'm going to be honest as I can be with you. I'm

not a golf fanatic in that I can only play with

certain people. I'll play golf with anybody. I'll

play golf with you every day. I said, but if you

don't play, you better take the game up because

I'm going to play golf as long as the good Lord

left me. And I'll play with you every day. And she

said, oh, I love golf. My brother is a golfer. She

said so it was a match made in heaven. That's

great, that's great. But I, I tried to be honest

with her right away. I said I'm playing golf.

>> RB: Well that's what I told my wife, Coach. I told her

when I met her. I said I played golf before you,

during you and after you. I'm. That's one thing

that, that's non negotiable for me.

>> Jonathan: And it's not. It's not more important to me than

you. Right. But it's very, very important to me.

>> RB: Yes.

>> Jonathan: And, uh, that's. It's always going to be. Of

course, you can be a nut like we are, carry it too

far, but that's. That's what lies forward score,

isn't it?

>> Jonathan: Yeah.

>> Jonathan: Got to get involved in stuff and care about stuff.

>> RB: Coach, what's your lowest score?

>> Jonathan: My lowest score was 65.

>> Jonathan: Oh.

>> Jonathan: I shot 65 on Forest Creek.

>> Jonathan: Yeah.

>> Jonathan: Pinehurst in Southern Pines. Uh, it's just not a.

It's not a chip and putt course.

>> RB: Not easy at all. So my parents lived at Pine

Needles.

>> Jonathan: Oh. Yeah. I spent. I had a friend down there that

was a, uh, PGA professional for 50, uh, four

years. He was decorated, uh, by the PGA section

down there. Yeah, a couple times he was there. So

Annie Page was his name. Yeah, he was at the Elks

Club, which was one of the original four Donald

Ross golf courses down there.

>> Jonathan: That's Southern Pines.

>> RB: That's Southern. Have you played since they redid

it?

>> Jonathan: Yeah. I love it.

>> RB: It's incredible.

>> Jonathan: Yeah. Yeah, I liked it. I scored a lot better on

it the old way, but, uh, yeah, I, uh. I played

that day with, uh, one of the assistants from the

shop, and I knew the guys pretty good, and we got

in and the, uh. Whitey. Uh, Whitey Post Spolster

was the head pro, and, uh, he played the tour way

back when a little bit. And he asked, his

assistant said, how'd you do? He said, I shot 72

and I got beat seven strokes.

>> RB: That's amazing. That's so cool.

>> Jonathan: I'll never forget that. But, uh, I've got that.

That's memorabilia. Well, I got a Super bowl

trophy here and then your super bowl trophy here,

but I got a 65 on Forest Creek right in here.

>> Jonathan: That's incredible. That's.

>> Jonathan: It was one of those days that, uh, you know, they

talk about you. You're into, you know, putts. I

don't put very well. But that day, if I hit it, it

went in. It was supposed to happen.

>> Jonathan: Yeah, that's. That's. That's seems to be the case

often. You know, you. You hit, you make.

>> Jonathan: I couldn't wait to play the next day. Guess what?

They didn't go in.

>> Jonathan: Like, what just happened. I just shot 65

yesterday.

>> Jonathan: I'm doing the same thing. I'm putting it standing

the same way. I'm holding it the same way, lining

it up the same way. Uh, Forest Creek screens work

fantastic. Incidentally, playing Clan.

>> Jonathan: I think green when I look at a golf course. To me,

you know, I just played at Jonathan's club. He's a

member at outside of Pittsburgh. Uh, we call it

the Moose Club, but it's Yakagani Country Club.

But, you know, it's not a long course at all. But

I tell you what, man, the greens are incredible.

And so anytime I go somewhere, truthfully, uh, lay

out in greens, that's really all I care about. If

the greens are good, you could. You could live

with the rest of it. You know what I mean?

>> Jonathan: I have. I have an advantage probably on every

golfer that ever played. I don't care what kind of

golf course I'm on. Just let me play golf, but put

me outside for a while. Let me walk, let me smell,

uh, let me see my shot, try to hit my shot, you

know, and I. I grew up playing on municipal

courses, and, and, uh, let's face it, some courses

are going to have the money to get better care,

and they're going to be in better shape, but I

don't care. Just let me play and let me play in

the evening and hit my shots and remember when my

dad and I did it? Remember when my son and I do it

now? Those times become so very real. And, uh, uh,

it. It's. It's a. It's almost a spiritual

experience when you're on a superbly manicured,

perfect green golf course. Everything but really

golf is. Is compiled of every golf course and any

place they can map out through the trees and put a

little brook somewhere in the lake and at least

get enough mowers out there. Well, you know, they

used to mow with a horse and, uh, horse and wagon,

you know, so they weren't very short then either.

And, uh, it's just golf. Golf is golf. And I don't

care what course I'm on.

>> Jonathan: Uh, it's awesome to hear that enthusiasm, because

I think I need to take a page out of your book,

Coach. And it's not that I. I do care so much

about that, but just the fact that, you know,

we're just golfing. That's it. I think that's the

mindset to adopt. Yeah.

>> RB: And have fun.

>> Jonathan: I don't care.

I don't care what course we're on, and a lot. How

many times have you been on? Have you been on the

golf course course? And it start moving through

twilight, and you say to yourself, I hope it

doesn't get dark for another half hour. Yeah, I'm

hitting it. Good. Uh, I'm m alive. I'm playing

golf. I hope it don't get dark. And most of my

courses that I've played on a lot, they say, yeah,

Lebow, we know what, uh, the end of the day is for

you. Dark and two more holes.

>> RB: I love that.

>> Jonathan: Oh, that's great. Yeah, we try to, you know,

sometimes we get the boys together on a Friday

afternoon, you know, and go out and play some

golf, and, uh, it's like, hey, look, let's just

enjoy, Be present, just enjoy the moment, enjoy

the. The earth, the grass, the smell, the sounds,

and not so much care about what you shoot or. Or,

you know, the. The.

>> Jonathan: You always gotta. You always gotta care what you

shoot, but you can enjoy it more when you play

good. But if you really just sit back and. And

look at what's around you, that's it. And the. The

miracle of nature, it helps you be at one with the

world.

>> Jonathan: Yeah, I like that, Coach. That's. That's wise.

That's wisdom.

>> Jonathan: Well, I've been accused of a lot of things, but

never being wise, pal.

>> RB: Well, coach, uh, it was incredible talking.

>> Jonathan: Well, I've enjoyed this. Yeah, we talked about two

of my favorite subjects. You know, was, uh, the

old saying is, the problem with being stupid is

not what you don't know, it's what you know ain't

so. I think I know something about football and

golf, and it's probably someone else would say,

well, what you know ain't so. But I. I do enjoy

studying both activities, and they've been my

life. Really.

>> Jonathan: Well, it's a lot to be proud of in your place, and

I can tell you're extremely humbled and grateful.

Um, and you're in a great spot right now. And.

And, you know, I just. I love the. I love to see

it. I love to see it for you.

>> Jonathan: Uh, well, thank you. I. I appreciate your time you

gave me. And when you. Your time talking about me

and playing golf with my son, that's my most

valued moments of my life.

>> RB: Well, we.

>> Jonathan: We definitely have to line some golf up at some

point, even if we got to drive over to Ohio. Uh,

we would absolutely love to do that, and we will

make sure we do that, Coach, but we're not done

with you yet.

We're almost done. We have our last segment of the

show, which is called the Tap in segment,

presented by Betonardi Golf. Check them out

online@, uh, betnardi.com Jonathan is going to ask

you, coach, a few questions that the man. You

know, we could say a quick response or however you

want to reply is just fine.

>> Jonathan: Okay.

>> RB: All right, Coach, what was your favorite on course

memory?

>> Jonathan: I gotta say shooting 65 and Forest Creek.

>> RB: I love it.

>> Jonathan: Of course, for that, that one afternoon, uh, my

short game was super. I didn't hit the ball out of

play. And, uh, I think, I think I was playing at

6,500, a little over 6,500. And uh, I mean, you

know, it wasn't a pitching putt. Well, it's still

here. Here. We're here. I am still talking about

it. Of course, I was 71 when I did that. So that,

that in itself is a favorite memory. Really?

>> Jonathan: Absolutely.

>> RB: All right. Dream foursome, dead or alive. If you

had to pick four, three other guys to play golf

with you, dead or alive, who would it be?

>> Jonathan: Well, Brandon Grant LeBeau would be number one.

That's my son, Robert Emerson Le Bow Senior.

That's my dad. I guess I'd take Jack and Nie.

>> RB: That's a pretty strong force in there.

>> Jonathan: Uh, well, you got, you got two golfers in there.

>> Jonathan: Yeah, we'll play five some.

>> RB: Yeah, that's a five to you. Best football player

you ever saw.

>> Jonathan: Can't do it.

>> RB: All right.

>> Jonathan: Uh, I can, I can tell you this. I'm, I'm not a fan

of best evers, you know, because the activities

have been going on for so long.

>> RB: Yeah.

>> Jonathan: And each, each, each athlete, I think, should be

judged in his environment, in his time, in, in the

particular activity that we're talking about,

whatever sp sport it is, and, uh, the, uh, guys

that are on top, uh, of our game. Now, uh, I'm

talking football now because that's the one that

most people would, uh, relate to me to. They're

fantastic athletes, they're great players, but

they're. I mean, Jim Brown would still be Jim

Brown. I mean, he would tear the league up. Those

skills wouldn't go away. Unitus would still be so

accurate that you couldn't, you couldn't defend

him because he could put the ball wherever he

wanted to put it. And, uh, I always, when talking

about players versus players, I think it's

important people don't think about this. I don't

think, uh, when I came into the league with 12

teams, they each, there was 31 squad members

because money football wasn't a real popular deal

then. It wasn't a money maker. And you only had 31

players on the team. Well, half of them had to

play defense and half of them, a little more than

half played offense. There were no such thing as

punters, kickers. Uh, specialists had to do

something else. And There were only two

quarterbacks on every team, so there was only 24

people in the world making any money throwing the

football. And believe me, gentlemen, they could

throw the hell out of football, uh, because the

competition was such that they had, in order to

survive. So those kind of guys would be

successful. Now, would they be able to run around,

dart around like Lamar Jackson does now? I don't

think they could, but, uh, I don't think you can,

uh, pick out best, best, best. But if you look at

the guys that won the most games, put up the most

yardage, they had something a little different in

their era than the rest of the guys out there who

didn't want them to put up those yards or complete

those passes, whatever, or the guys that

intercepted a bunch of passes. They had some

skill. Uh, so that's. That's my answer to the best

ever.

>> RB: That's.

>> Jonathan: That's a good one.

>> RB: That's a fair answer.

>> Jonathan: That makes sense.

>> RB: Last question, and I have a feeling I know the

answer, but what are you chasing?

>> Jonathan: What am I chasing in life? My next breath. I love

it.

>> RB: Uh.

>> Jonathan: Oh, man, thank you so much.

>> RB: Thank you so much that you did, ah, for everything

you did for the Pittsburgh Steelers and for that

matter, football. Um, incredible career. And like

Ryan said, in the spring, we're going to mosey on

over to Cincinnati, and we want to play some golf

with you and your son, Brandon.

>> Jonathan: Yeah. Before you get off here, uh, we didn't say

anything about my 2008 defense in Pittsburgh. We

got to talk, just very briefly, the best, best

group of guys in terms of not being selfish and

ability to play football. And you can go through

all 12 of them, all the starters, and I always

put, uh, Bryant McFadden in there, too, because he

played a lot. He was our third corner. But, uh,

uh, when you start talking about Troy and James

Ferrier and Casey Hampton and Brett Kiesel and

Aaron Smith, James Harrison, um, Lamar Woodley,

Larry, um, Foote Ferrier, and you got Clark and,

uh, Palomalo, and, uh, I'm leaving, guys.

>> Jonathan: Ike Taylor. Yeah.

>> Jonathan: And, uh, no, uh, there's one more.

>> Jonathan: The Shay Townsend.

>> Jonathan: God love you. Dushe.

>> Jonathan: That's.

>> Jonathan: Now we got all of mentioned there. Those guys,

collectively, they're the baddest dudes on the

planet. Now, they could go out there tomorrow, I

think, think, and, and keep people from scoring.

They gave up something like in. In 2008 now, and

all these rules changes have started coming into

effect. And the way they throw the ball 13 points

a game, gentlemen. And I don't know if anybody's

ever going to do it again.

>> RB: That's crazy.

>> Jonathan: That was.

>> Jonathan: Yeah, that's, that's the end of my statement for

supporting that bunch of guys.

They didn't care who got the sack, they didn't

care who got the interception, who got the fumble.

It was us, uh, what we did as a team. And nobody

could do very much against them.

>> Jonathan: No. And that run with Harrison in the super bowl,

that might have been that something. Oh, my God.

>> Jonathan: Greatest play I've ever seen.

>> Jonathan: Unbelievable.

>> Jonathan: I would have said greatest for you. It's the

greatest football play I've ever seen. You know,

I'll tell you a quick story on that because it's

always worth a laugh. It was right at the end of

the half and we were three points ahead, and I was

hoping they got the ball at about midfield. Uh,

and I was thinking, oh, man, if we can get out of

this half with no more than giving them a field

goal it tie game going into the second half, it'd

be anybody's game. Well, they had the balls on the

two yard line and, uh, there wasn't hardly any

time left in the half at all. So we knew Dave

going to throw it, so he threw it and Harrison

picked it off. And I started hollering, of course

I'm, uh, there's a limit to the coach's box, how

far down you can get. I was as close to him as I

could get, but it was about the 35 yard line. He

was on the end zone. You know, he got everybody

screaming in the stadium. I'm saying, get down,

James, get down. I want him to get in the ground.

Get us out of the half. We're leading. And then he

started picking up these blocks and he, he come

running up past the 35 and I said, run, J. I went

from get on the ground, man, to run to run. And he

collapsed, if you remember.

>> RB: Yeah.

>> Jonathan: In the end zone. And if he hadn't been the best

condition guy on the team, he would have never

made it back out for the second half. There's

about 110 on the field that day. And he just laid

down and what a play. What a play.

>> Jonathan: Oh, uh, that was awesome. That was, that was.

Those are good memories.

>> Jonathan: That is now there. If you'd asked me my best

memory at football, that would have been screwed

up.

>> RB: We'll do that again.

>> Jonathan: Yeah. Either that or one of Troy sacks.

>> RB: One of many, right?

>> Jonathan: Yeah. That's great.

>> RB: Thank you so much. Thank you so much.

>> Jonathan: For your time.

>> RB: Uh, first off, thank you so much to coach Dick

LeBeau for coming on, taking time out of his day.

Um, and I'm sure he went and played golf based on

our interview. The guy loves golf. I love that

man. My man, 88 years young and plays golf as much

as he can. Doesn't necessarily care about the

conditions, which I love, does care about his

score, and likes to have fun. What else do you

want? He's outside in nature, just chirping

around. He's. The guy's worked hard in his life,

right? He's dealt with all those meatheads for how

long? He gets to live a little bit.

>> Jonathan: Yeah. It's awesome to see. That's why I said you

could just tell he's very humble and very high on

life and has a lot to be proud of in his career.

And he sure as hell loves the game of golf, and I

love to see that. And it's so great to see him and

his son Brandon, who I've got to know now over the

year, like I said, met and met Justin, uh, Peters

playing at Pikewood and that whole thing kind of

came together. So very appreciative of the

opportunity to sit down with, with a legend, with

the hall of Famer and talk to him. Man, that's,

that's so cool. That's like, I don't know, that's,

it's far out. I love it.

>> RB: And I mean, think about that 25 year old US. Uh,

you think we'd be interviewing coach Dick LeBeau?

>> Jonathan: No, not at all. But you know what sets us together

is golf. It's the love of golf. And that's what we

do. And it's funny because, uh, JP texted me on

the Instagram thing and said, hey, M, I'm headed

to Cincy on Friday. Why don't you mosey on over

and play golf with Brandon? Then Brandon hollered

at me and said, hey, if you come down, I know my

pops are going to play, but I'm off to Vermont, so

I can't make it. But rain check it because

regardless, Pep, you and I are going to make that

trek over there to Ohio.

>> Jonathan: I would love to go.

>> Jonathan: I'm pick it up with Coach B and get it done.

>> RB: So.

>> Jonathan: That was awesome. Once again, thanks. And, um,

it's fresh. It was awesome. I loved it. I loved

it. And great timing, right? I mean, with all the

stuff happening with football, couldn't be better.

>> RB: And with that being said, I mean, you and I are

mosey on over to tn.

>> Jonathan: Oh yeah.

>> RB: Couple weeks, um, do an interview or two, play a

little G.

>> Jonathan: Hey, you know, I FaceTimed you on Sunday. I was

kind of in a little bit of a bind. You didn't

answer. You might have called me back. But I might

not have answered. But, dude, I drove my side by

side to the BFS gas station because we were out of

eggs and she needed to make some something for.

With eggs. Anyways, I drive the Kawasaki up there

because, you know, West Virginia is legal to do

that, right? I take my key out of the ignition and

the whole ignition falls out, boys. The whole

ignition falls out. And I'm parked at the bfs and

I'm like, oh, my God, I'm not gonna be able to

leave. I gotta call and get my. I'm gonna have to

get my sound side by side Toad from being.

>> RB: So what were you calling me for, though, bud?

Like, what, am I gonna help you out?

>> Jonathan: No, I just wanted you to see me. I said, yeah, I

wanted to say, bud, look at me, I'm stuck.

>> RB: That's hilarious.

>> Jonathan: Can't go anywhere. So what'd you do? I'm like,

well, I called Ash and she came and got me. Well,

what I did was I called Blake, too. And I said,

yo, Blake, he was playing a kickball game, but he

answers, and, uh, he's like, what's up? I said,

dude, the side by side. You need to come. I don't

know what to do. He said, we'll leave it there.

We'll come get it. So I go into bfs, I tell the

chick there, I'm like, hey, I gotta leave my side

by side here. And she said, okay, we won't tow it.

Well, you know what I did, dude? I pulled the wire

all the way out from behind the dash, got it down

by my brake and gas pedal, and I put the key in,

started it up, drove it home. But, yeah, that's

why I called you, man. But you missed out that

one.

>> RB: That would have been pretty funny to see.

>> Jonathan: It would have been funny to see. But that was a

lot of fun, man. It's always fun catching up with

you. I know you've been traveling like crazy.

>> RB: Yeah. And, uh, I'm ready to wind it down. Two more

weeks, I think, and then I'm off the road, and

then I'll see you in Tennessee.

>> Jonathan: It sounds like a deal, my man. And we're gonna

keep doing this stuff. I gotta say, uh, those guys

on the fan, 93, 37, the fan in Pittsburgh, they

are hilarious.

>> RB: And I wonder if he got his nipples Pierced.

>> Jonathan: Well, I just heard today that he's doing it, like,

on the 27th or 29th, the Wednesday he's doing it.

He's going to donate some money now to cancer, but

Philippines, right? Yeah, Right.

>> RB: Uh, did you see Barstool talk about it?

>> Jonathan: No, I didn't.

>> RB: They were talking about. They're like, there's

this guy in Pittsburgh that, you know, made this

bet, and they're like, we feel like he, like,

always wanted to have his nipples pierced, and

it's one of those things that he just threw it out

there if it's hit, like, he's got to do it type

thing. It was hilarious. Big Cat did it.

>> Jonathan: Well, that's what, uh. That's why I hollered at

you and Pompey Annie the other day. I'm like, yo,

is this guy gonna really do this? If he does,

Epic. I mean, he's got a. You know, I would not

put myself in that position to want to do that.

But he's gonna do it, man. So props to him, man.

Phil, Pony dude, if you ever want to come on

chasing birdies, we got a spot for you here. I

want to. I kind of want to see what you're going

with.

>> RB: Barbell nipple looks like, right?

>> Jonathan: The hoops or the barbells. Anyways, all right.

>> RB: With that being said, I hope to see in the golf

course maybe in the next few days, but, um, the

season is prime time here, um, so keep chasing.

Have a wonderful weekend, and thank you for

listening.

Chase the underscore Birdies. Tap it. Like it.

Love it.

>> Jonathan: Yeah, guys, as always, we appreciate the love and

support you guys out there. Tuning in. Thank, uh,

you to Ally, Emily Evo at Simpler Media for

putting this thing together. Jacqueline D.

Paterio, Rachel London, for all your social media

help. You girls rock. We appreciate the love, and

we will catch y' all in two.

>> Jonathan: It, uh.