1 00:00:03,200 --> 00:00:05,160 Daphney Willem: Hello, everyone. I'm Daphney Willem. 2 00:00:05,440 --> 00:00:07,800 Welcome to a very special podcast. 3 00:00:07,800 --> 00:00:14,040 Today we will explore the changes to the parental and maternity leave regime in South Africa. 4 00:00:14,280 --> 00:00:19,880 In celebration of Father's Day, I am joined by my colleagues Benny McCullen and Owethu 5 00:00:19,880 --> 00:00:20,440 Mbambo. 6 00:00:20,480 --> 00:00:26,040 Benny Makoloane: Hi everyone. I'm Benny Makoloane, I'm an associate in Fasken Labour and employment team. 7 00:00:26,080 --> 00:00:32,360 Owethu Mbambo: Hi everyone. I am Owethu Mbambo and I am a partner at Fasken Labour and Employment Team. 8 00:00:32,760 --> 00:00:40,320 Daphney Willem: The Basic Conditions of Employment Act sets out an employee leave entitlement and the types of leave that an employee 9 00:00:40,360 --> 00:00:45,120 who works more than 24 hours for a particular employer is entitled to take. 10 00:00:45,480 --> 00:00:51,960 Prior to the 1st of January 2020, an employee was entitled to take annual leave, 11 00:00:52,080 --> 00:00:56,200 sick leave, family responsibility leave, and maternity leave. 12 00:00:56,720 --> 00:01:05,400 Benny, please explain to us how fathers and other non-birthing parents took time off at the birth of their 13 00:01:05,400 --> 00:01:06,040 children. 14 00:01:06,800 --> 00:01:15,000 Benny Makoloane: Sure, Daphney. So before the 1st of January 2020, the BECA only allowed Non-birthing parents to take three 15 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:18,960 days of family responsibility leave when their kids were born. 16 00:01:19,240 --> 00:01:23,840 And despite that statutory benefit, some employers had a parental leave benefit, 17 00:01:23,840 --> 00:01:28,400 which was provided to Non-birthing parents upon the birth of their children. 18 00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:34,520 Owethu Mbambo: Thanks, Benny. And then we know that on the 1st of January 2020, 19 00:01:34,840 --> 00:01:43,880 the BCEA was amended and introduced three additional categories of leave to be taken by Non-birthing parents at 20 00:01:43,920 --> 00:01:47,160 the birth or adoption of their child. 21 00:01:47,320 --> 00:01:53,640 And these are termed parental leave, adoption leave and commissioning parental leave. 22 00:01:54,160 --> 00:02:01,200 Daphney Willem: I understand that these amendments were introduced to acknowledge the important role played by fathers in the 23 00:02:01,200 --> 00:02:06,850 upbringing of their children, and to also ensure that provision is made for leave periods 24 00:02:06,850 --> 00:02:11,250 that facilitate early bonding between fathers and their children. 25 00:02:11,650 --> 00:02:18,690 Owethu Mbambo: Yes, Daph that's correct. Additionally, the new leave categories also recognise the different ways 26 00:02:18,690 --> 00:02:25,490 in which employees are now choosing to become parents, either through adoption or surrogacy. 27 00:02:25,810 --> 00:02:35,690 Benny, maybe you can tell us what a father would be entitled to after the effect of the January 2020 amendments 28 00:02:35,690 --> 00:02:40,610 and before the Concorde Judgement in Van Wyk, which will touch on a bit later. 29 00:02:41,130 --> 00:02:48,250 Benny Makoloane: Sure, Owethu. The position was that a father would be entitled to ten consecutive days of parental leave. 30 00:02:48,730 --> 00:02:55,970 An adoptive parent of a child below the age of two would be entitled to ten consecutive weeks or ten days of parental 31 00:02:55,970 --> 00:03:02,850 leave. A commissioning parent in a surrogate relationship would be entitled to commissioning parental leave of at 32 00:03:02,890 --> 00:03:06,490 least ten consecutive weeks or parental leave ten days. 33 00:03:06,970 --> 00:03:16,090 Owethu Mbambo: Thanks, Ben. I understand that unlike with maternity leave, a father who has adopted a child below the age of two or a 34 00:03:16,090 --> 00:03:23,210 father in a surrogate arrangement will then have to elect between the longer leave period of ten weeks and the 35 00:03:23,210 --> 00:03:26,010 parental leave period of ten days. 36 00:03:26,330 --> 00:03:32,930 Depending on the circumstances of each case, it's highly likely that a father would elect the parental 37 00:03:32,930 --> 00:03:37,730 leave and give his partner the option of taking the longer period. 38 00:03:38,370 --> 00:03:45,650 Daphney Willem: The differential treatment between birthing and non-birthing parents in respect of these categories of leave was 39 00:03:45,650 --> 00:03:53,330 considered by the Constitutional Court in the case of Van Vague and others versus the Minister of Employment and 40 00:03:53,330 --> 00:04:00,050 Labour in this matter. Mrs. Van Wijk was self-employed and after the birth of her child, 41 00:04:00,050 --> 00:04:03,330 she needed to return to work quicker than her husband. 42 00:04:03,850 --> 00:04:09,010 The only problem was that her husband only had ten days of parental leave. 43 00:04:10,210 --> 00:04:17,210 The Constitutional Court considered the differential treatment and found that this regime unfairly discriminated 44 00:04:17,410 --> 00:04:25,690 against the different classes of parents, and also infringed on their dignity and equality based on 45 00:04:25,690 --> 00:04:32,210 whether they were a birthing parent, non-birthing parent, or an adoptive parent or commissioning 46 00:04:32,210 --> 00:04:34,530 parent in a surrogate arrangement. 47 00:04:35,330 --> 00:04:41,330 The Constitutional Court ultimately declared the sections dealing with maternity leave, 48 00:04:41,570 --> 00:04:47,250 parental leave, adoption and commissioning parental leave unconstitutional. 49 00:04:48,090 --> 00:04:56,690 Benny, can you explain to us what the consequences of this judgement have been on parents taking leave? 50 00:04:57,210 --> 00:05:05,250 Benny Makoloane: So the Constitutional Court was clear that the idea that the early caregiving of a child is mainly a woman's work, 51 00:05:05,250 --> 00:05:09,730 and that the father's role is secondary is an outdated assumption. 52 00:05:09,730 --> 00:05:14,210 Fathers should also be given the opportunity to bond with their children early in their lives. 53 00:05:15,050 --> 00:05:19,450 Daphney Willem: So what is the current legal position then in respect of maternity leave, 54 00:05:19,490 --> 00:05:23,850 parental leave, adoption leave and commissioning parental leave? 55 00:05:24,610 --> 00:05:29,770 Benny Makoloane: So while the Constitutional Court declared sections of the BCA unconstitutional, 56 00:05:29,770 --> 00:05:35,530 that declaration was suspended for 36 months to give Parliament time to fix the legislation. 57 00:05:36,010 --> 00:05:40,170 Pending this, the court created an interim reading into the BCA. 58 00:05:40,730 --> 00:05:47,210 It confirmed that the statutory four months and ten days of parental leave should remain and may be shared between both 59 00:05:47,210 --> 00:05:47,810 parents. 60 00:05:48,170 --> 00:05:51,050 Owethu Mbambo: Okay, thank you very much, Ben and Dep. 61 00:05:51,450 --> 00:05:57,770 This is quite an important case, which was not only about giving more leave to fathers, 62 00:05:57,770 --> 00:06:06,130 but it also removes stereotypes that a mother is the primary caregiver of a child and must carry that burden alone. 63 00:06:06,410 --> 00:06:12,700 Now the mother and the father of a child can decide how they will take their parental leave. 64 00:06:13,380 --> 00:06:18,900 Benny Makoloane: So let's break down the practicalities of the current position after Van Wyk. 65 00:06:19,340 --> 00:06:25,140 If an employee is a single parent or the only employed parent in the parental relationship, 66 00:06:25,420 --> 00:06:30,140 that employee is entitled to at least four consecutive months of parental leave. 67 00:06:30,580 --> 00:06:37,260 That's a big shift because it means potentially an employed father can access a full four months where, 68 00:06:37,460 --> 00:06:40,940 for example, the mother is self-employed or unemployed. 69 00:06:41,340 --> 00:06:47,060 Daphney Willem: And if both parents are employed, they're entitled to the aggregate of four months and ten 70 00:06:47,060 --> 00:06:52,020 days parental leave. They can decide how they want to share it concurrently, 71 00:06:52,260 --> 00:06:58,140 consecutively or partly both, provided that each parent's leave is taken as a single 72 00:06:58,140 --> 00:07:05,420 sequence of consecutive days. If they do not agree, the default position is that the leave must be apportioned 73 00:07:05,540 --> 00:07:11,820 so that each parent's total leave is as close as possible to half the total period. 74 00:07:12,380 --> 00:07:18,940 Owethu Mbambo: And as a person who has given birth myself, Daph, I think the one question that comes up is, 75 00:07:18,940 --> 00:07:24,980 what about the physical changes and the physical implications and consequences of giving birth? 76 00:07:24,980 --> 00:07:27,580 Are those factored into any of this? 77 00:07:27,820 --> 00:07:33,980 And when you look at these changes, there is still protection for a parent who gives birth. 78 00:07:34,020 --> 00:07:41,900 A female employee who is expecting a child may start leave up to four weeks before the expected date of birth, 79 00:07:42,020 --> 00:07:47,340 and no female employee who has given birth may work for six weeks after the birth, 80 00:07:47,460 --> 00:07:52,540 unless certified fit by a medical practitioner or a qualified midwife. 81 00:07:52,540 --> 00:08:01,540 So the court has preserved the health and recovery dimension of birth while still opening up the broader care giving 82 00:08:01,540 --> 00:08:04,420 space for fathers and other parents. 83 00:08:04,900 --> 00:08:10,260 Benny Makoloane: Important to note that this interim regime also extends across adoption and surrogacy, 84 00:08:10,580 --> 00:08:13,420 Which is another important equality shift. 85 00:08:13,860 --> 00:08:20,300 The court here is recognising that bonding care and adjustment are not just issues for the biological parents of 86 00:08:20,300 --> 00:08:20,860 a child. 87 00:08:21,500 --> 00:08:29,620 Owethu Mbambo: So from a practical perspective, it's easy to see how an employer that employs both parents 88 00:08:29,660 --> 00:08:32,300 can easily implement the changes. 89 00:08:32,540 --> 00:08:38,500 The question, though, becomes how an employer will monitor the sharing of parental leave. 90 00:08:38,620 --> 00:08:44,620 If the parents are employed by different employers, which would generally ordinarily be the case. 91 00:08:45,100 --> 00:08:49,820 Daphney Willem: So there are different ways that employers can approach that type of situation, 92 00:08:49,820 --> 00:08:54,540 or way to employers could offer the benefit of parental leave, 93 00:08:54,580 --> 00:08:58,420 regardless of the other parents employment status. 94 00:08:58,740 --> 00:09:01,460 Or they could follow the leave sharing approach. 95 00:09:01,740 --> 00:09:04,780 So give your employees the four months. 96 00:09:05,180 --> 00:09:10,060 Or if you want them to share, they will share then the four months and ten days. 97 00:09:10,380 --> 00:09:13,230 If they do elect the leave sharing option. 98 00:09:13,270 --> 00:09:21,750 Employers will require employees to submit a written agreement confirming how the employees have decided to take 99 00:09:21,790 --> 00:09:23,030 their parental leave. 100 00:09:23,590 --> 00:09:29,350 Benny Makoloane: And we have to remember that trust is the cornerstone of the employment relationship. 101 00:09:29,790 --> 00:09:35,750 So an employer will trust that the parents will adhere to that agreement. 102 00:09:36,590 --> 00:09:45,350 Owethu Mbambo: Another likely situation that employers must be prepared to deal with is where one of the parents has an employee 103 00:09:45,350 --> 00:09:52,750 benefit in terms of their workplace policies, where they are paid to take the full four months leave, 104 00:09:53,150 --> 00:09:56,590 and the other parent doesn't have such a benefit. 105 00:09:56,710 --> 00:10:04,510 And these are the sort of issues that couples and parents will need to also start thinking about when they decide how 106 00:10:04,510 --> 00:10:06,950 they will split their leave up. 107 00:10:07,630 --> 00:10:14,870 Daphney Willem: In February 2026. The Department of Labour and Employment published the Labour Law Amendment Bill. 108 00:10:15,470 --> 00:10:21,430 This bill sets out proposed amendments to be made to the Basic Conditions of Employment Act, 109 00:10:21,430 --> 00:10:27,070 to align it with the principles that we have just highlighted from the Van Wyk judgement. 110 00:10:27,550 --> 00:10:31,230 Benny Makoloane: Instead of keeping the old separate concepts of maternity leave, 111 00:10:31,270 --> 00:10:36,230 parental leave, adoption leave and commissioning parental leave in the same way, 112 00:10:36,630 --> 00:10:43,070 it introduces a more unified framework that's built around one right to parental leave. 113 00:10:43,670 --> 00:10:50,470 Under the proposed new section 25 of the BCA, an employee who's a parent of a newborn child, 114 00:10:50,470 --> 00:10:56,550 an adoptive parent of a child up to six years old, or commissioning parent in a surrogacy arrangement would 115 00:10:56,550 --> 00:10:58,190 qualify for parental leave. 116 00:10:58,710 --> 00:11:04,390 Owethu Mbambo: That's quite interesting, Benny, because the Labour Law Amendment Bill thus proposes to 117 00:11:04,430 --> 00:11:09,630 increase the adoption age of a child from 2 to 6 years old. 118 00:11:10,150 --> 00:11:18,070 Daphney Willem: Benny, can you please take us through the material differences between the Labour Law Amendment Bill and the 119 00:11:18,070 --> 00:11:19,190 Van Wyk judgement. 120 00:11:19,670 --> 00:11:26,870 Benny Makoloane: I think the major difference relates to what happens when you have parents who cannot agree on how to divide their 121 00:11:26,870 --> 00:11:33,270 leave after a child is born, and under the Constitutional Court's interim BCA regime, 122 00:11:33,630 --> 00:11:39,310 the default was basically to split the leave as close to equally as possible. 123 00:11:39,310 --> 00:11:42,470 After taking into account the birth mother's protected period. 124 00:11:42,990 --> 00:11:48,350 Under the bill, if the parents of a child cannot agree on how to share their leave, 125 00:11:48,870 --> 00:11:53,590 the person or the parent who gave birth can elect to take the full four months, 126 00:11:53,590 --> 00:12:00,230 in which case the other parent gets ten days, or the person who gave birth may take less than four months, 127 00:12:00,230 --> 00:12:02,950 in which case the other parent gets the balance. 128 00:12:03,310 --> 00:12:10,110 So the bill's in a stronger default preference for the birth mother in scenarios where there's disagreement. 129 00:12:10,510 --> 00:12:14,470 Owethu Mbambo: That's a really interesting policy choice on one hand. 130 00:12:14,510 --> 00:12:17,710 It recognises recovery from childbirth. 131 00:12:18,070 --> 00:12:25,670 On the other hand, it may become one of the more debated features of the bill because it moves away from the courts. 132 00:12:25,710 --> 00:12:29,110 More equality based interim default. 133 00:12:29,670 --> 00:12:32,470 Daphney Willem: It seems to me that language matters now. 134 00:12:33,110 --> 00:12:39,950 The legal conversation has shifted from paternity maternity leave to parental leave, 135 00:12:40,310 --> 00:12:48,270 and this mirrors the fact that the law is also moving away from the idea that caregiving rights should depend mainly on 136 00:12:48,270 --> 00:12:51,590 whether you are the birth mother or the other parent. 137 00:12:51,950 --> 00:12:58,670 Benny Makoloane: For me, the biggest story here is that the law is slowly catching up with reality and how families actually live. 138 00:12:59,070 --> 00:13:04,470 In some homes, the fathers, the one who can take extended leave from work in other homes. 139 00:13:04,590 --> 00:13:06,470 Both parents need flexibility. 140 00:13:06,990 --> 00:13:11,150 Real life is far more textured than the old legislation allowed for. 141 00:13:11,830 --> 00:13:15,470 Owethu Mbambo: I agree this is definitely a step in the right direction. 142 00:13:15,750 --> 00:13:21,320 The early days after a child is born are not just about nappies and no sleep. 143 00:13:21,680 --> 00:13:27,600 They're also about attachment, confidence, routine and building a family rhythm as well. 144 00:13:27,840 --> 00:13:32,160 For many fathers, being present in that space is not a luxury, 145 00:13:32,440 --> 00:13:40,440 it's foundational. The amendments to the BCEA and the Van Wyk judgement allow fathers to be involved in this important 146 00:13:40,440 --> 00:13:42,480 phase of their child's lives. 147 00:13:43,080 --> 00:13:48,440 Benny Makoloane: So in closing, if you're an employer, now's the time to review your leave policies. 148 00:13:48,840 --> 00:13:54,160 If you're an employee, especially a father, don't assume the answer is still just ten days, 149 00:13:54,160 --> 00:13:56,680 boss. The law has moved, brother. 150 00:13:57,360 --> 00:14:01,880 Owethu Mbambo: And to everyone listening, whether you're a dad, a co-parent, 151 00:14:01,880 --> 00:14:06,160 an employer, or just trying to make sense of this area of law, 152 00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:07,920 we hope this has been helpful. 153 00:14:08,360 --> 00:14:13,480 Daphney Willem: And to the fathers and the father figures out there, Happy Father's Day. 154 00:14:13,520 --> 00:14:14,520 Owethu Mbambo: Happy Father's day. 155 00:14:14,560 --> 00:14:15,440 Benny Makoloane: Happy Father's Day.