1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,820 You're trying to self regulate out of shutdown and work your way 2 00:00:02,820 --> 00:00:06,830 up the Polyvagal ladder, but you keep stumbling upon frustration, 3 00:00:06,900 --> 00:00:08,840 irritation, and maybe even anger. 4 00:00:08,900 --> 00:00:11,840 Is this expected and a normal part of the process, or is this 5 00:00:11,840 --> 00:00:13,879 an obstacle and a red flag? 6 00:00:14,379 --> 00:00:16,739 I want to answer that for you in this episode to help you 7 00:00:16,739 --> 00:00:19,750 understand what's happening within you and what you can do about it. 8 00:00:20,095 --> 00:00:21,335 Hi, I'm Justin Sunseri. 9 00:00:21,355 --> 00:00:25,625 I am a therapist and coach and the creator of the Polyvagal Trauma Relief System. 10 00:00:25,915 --> 00:00:28,465 Welcome to Stuck Not Broken, where I teach you how to live with more 11 00:00:28,465 --> 00:00:32,405 calm, confidence, and connection without psychobabble or woo woo. 12 00:00:32,405 --> 00:00:36,465 This is, of course, not therapy, nor is it intended to replace therapy. 13 00:00:37,030 --> 00:00:39,910 I got a question from one of my Stucknaut Collective members. 14 00:00:39,910 --> 00:00:42,890 This is the private community in the Total Access membership. 15 00:00:43,510 --> 00:00:46,380 And they have been working through the Shutdown to Stillness course. 16 00:00:46,380 --> 00:00:49,590 They sent me this really great question that I think can relate to a lot of people 17 00:00:49,590 --> 00:00:51,329 who are working their way out of Shutdown. 18 00:00:51,990 --> 00:00:53,999 So I want to read this to you and then share my thoughts. 19 00:00:54,009 --> 00:00:58,150 So you'll be able to hear from someone who's working their way through 20 00:00:58,200 --> 00:01:03,340 Shutdown, actively, using Polyvagal Theory knowledge and my coursework. 21 00:01:04,415 --> 00:01:06,945 And then you'll be able to hear what I think about, you 22 00:01:06,945 --> 00:01:07,895 know, what's, what's happening. 23 00:01:07,905 --> 00:01:10,825 I'm going to basically fictionalize this as much as I possibly can. 24 00:01:10,825 --> 00:01:13,194 I'm going to address this generally. 25 00:01:13,374 --> 00:01:18,314 Uh, but I also want to get really specific about what might be happening, uh, in, but 26 00:01:18,314 --> 00:01:20,004 on a general level, if that makes sense. 27 00:01:20,005 --> 00:01:22,085 So basically to this person, I'm making up a name. 28 00:01:22,085 --> 00:01:23,384 I'm going to call this person Teagan. 29 00:01:24,005 --> 00:01:26,595 This is not specific life advice to you or anybody else. 30 00:01:26,634 --> 00:01:30,125 This is my general thoughts, but I'll get as specific as I can. 31 00:01:30,460 --> 00:01:31,230 In a general way. 32 00:01:31,230 --> 00:01:31,960 I hope that makes sense. 33 00:01:32,070 --> 00:01:36,570 Tegan says, I've been working through the brilliant Shutdown to Stillness course. 34 00:01:37,820 --> 00:01:40,170 I'm glad you're enjoying it and finding it brilliant. 35 00:01:40,170 --> 00:01:41,149 This is my newest course. 36 00:01:41,149 --> 00:01:42,020 I have four in there. 37 00:01:42,489 --> 00:01:45,229 Shutdown to Stillness, just so everyone has context. 38 00:01:45,239 --> 00:01:49,200 It helps people to go from shutdown into stillness. 39 00:01:49,200 --> 00:01:52,630 And we'll talk more about this as the question unfolds. 40 00:01:53,365 --> 00:01:56,515 I've been working through the brilliant Shutdown to Stillness course. 41 00:01:56,625 --> 00:01:59,964 Currently, I'm finding it hard to give permission to my shutdown state. 42 00:02:00,384 --> 00:02:01,274 Yeah, that's, that's difficult. 43 00:02:01,294 --> 00:02:02,235 It is not easy. 44 00:02:03,184 --> 00:02:07,385 Permitting any defensive state is a major obstacle or challenge. 45 00:02:07,385 --> 00:02:08,584 I won't call it an obstacle. 46 00:02:08,584 --> 00:02:11,644 It's um, well, maybe it is, but it's, it's a challenge at the very least. 47 00:02:11,654 --> 00:02:15,294 It's a challenge no matter what your stuck defensive state is. 48 00:02:15,374 --> 00:02:20,914 And yet giving permission is, is kind of extremely important because 49 00:02:20,914 --> 00:02:24,035 if you don't permit it to be there, well, how can you mindfully experience 50 00:02:24,035 --> 00:02:27,565 it, feel it, and then self regulate out of that stuck defensive state? 51 00:02:28,715 --> 00:02:32,764 Tegan says, Currently I'm finding it hard to give permission to my shutdown state. 52 00:02:33,435 --> 00:02:38,305 I've moved from resistance and experienced acceptance and some stillness. 53 00:02:38,345 --> 00:02:38,954 That's good to hear. 54 00:02:39,704 --> 00:02:42,925 But now I feel that I can only tolerate it. 55 00:02:43,345 --> 00:02:49,224 So I'm hearing Tegan that she is coming, slowly coming out 56 00:02:49,224 --> 00:02:51,184 of shutdown into stillness. 57 00:02:52,380 --> 00:02:53,859 Had some level of acceptance. 58 00:02:53,890 --> 00:02:59,070 Um, I'm going to assume that means, uh, validation in the 59 00:02:59,070 --> 00:03:02,230 course we work on validating and normalizing and giving permission. 60 00:03:02,280 --> 00:03:04,669 I'm assuming you mean something like that, that basically it's, it's 61 00:03:04,669 --> 00:03:09,289 real, it's here and I'm not going to minimize it or deny this anymore. 62 00:03:09,329 --> 00:03:14,890 Um, that I, I, I am in a shutdown state or I have this experience of shutdown, like 63 00:03:14,959 --> 00:03:17,950 sadness or heaviness or feeling hopeless. 64 00:03:18,745 --> 00:03:23,285 So, experience, acceptance, or maybe validation, and maybe even some 65 00:03:23,285 --> 00:03:24,785 stillness already, which is a good sign. 66 00:03:25,125 --> 00:03:28,155 But, now I feel that I can only tolerate it. 67 00:03:28,424 --> 00:03:29,954 Uh, tolerate shutdown, I'm assuming. 68 00:03:30,005 --> 00:03:34,275 Teagan goes on to say, Yesterday I used the idea of imagery seeing/feeling 69 00:03:34,295 --> 00:03:36,635 my shutdown as a big black cloak. 70 00:03:36,745 --> 00:03:39,514 So what Tegan is touching upon here is that in the course I teach people 71 00:03:39,514 --> 00:03:43,994 how to be with their or how to permit Shutdown, but it's we don't 72 00:03:43,994 --> 00:03:46,124 want to go all into it all at once. 73 00:03:46,534 --> 00:03:50,784 we might want to get to a deep dive into still shut down but that's a lot. 74 00:03:50,784 --> 00:03:51,724 It's potentially a lot. 75 00:03:51,744 --> 00:03:56,154 So instead, there's a different level of permitting shutdown 76 00:03:56,474 --> 00:03:57,734 which utilizes imagery. 77 00:03:57,734 --> 00:03:59,214 So that's what she's touching upon here. 78 00:03:59,264 --> 00:04:02,624 Yesterday I used the idea of imagery, seeing/feeling my 79 00:04:02,624 --> 00:04:04,644 shutdown as a big black cloak. 80 00:04:05,544 --> 00:04:09,594 This led to me getting irritated and I got up, moved around, and started saying, 81 00:04:09,704 --> 00:04:11,274 "Get off me" and "Leave me alone." 82 00:04:11,894 --> 00:04:14,044 I stayed grounded and felt connected. 83 00:04:14,454 --> 00:04:16,884 Energy definitely came back, but only for about 10 minutes. 84 00:04:17,514 --> 00:04:19,134 Shutdown returned, although not as heavy. 85 00:04:19,444 --> 00:04:22,354 So let's look at the process of what's, of what's happening 86 00:04:22,514 --> 00:04:24,434 right now or in this story. 87 00:04:24,714 --> 00:04:31,014 Tegan used imagery to permit shutdown to be within her and it looked like 88 00:04:31,014 --> 00:04:34,344 a big black cloak, something heavy, just sort of hanging on, on Tegan. 89 00:04:34,374 --> 00:04:36,204 This led to me getting irritated. 90 00:04:36,214 --> 00:04:38,774 Now, does that mean imagery led, led her to getting irritated? 91 00:04:38,784 --> 00:04:39,164 No. 92 00:04:39,734 --> 00:04:43,994 What this means is that successfully permitting shutdown at this 93 00:04:43,994 --> 00:04:47,604 level, uh, led to irritation. 94 00:04:47,694 --> 00:04:51,314 Does that mean I'm irritated because I'm in shutdown or I'm irritated 95 00:04:51,934 --> 00:04:53,384 because of the experience of shutdown? 96 00:04:53,704 --> 00:05:00,819 Maybe, but, um, I, the way I interpret this is that irritation is, is, is a 97 00:05:00,819 --> 00:05:02,590 good indication of fight activation. 98 00:05:02,590 --> 00:05:07,884 So no matter what the impetus is, the fact that there's fight activation, is 99 00:05:07,884 --> 00:05:09,674 a pretty good sign of self regulation. 100 00:05:10,314 --> 00:05:15,004 In Shutdown to Stillness in the course, the goal is not to go into fight 101 00:05:15,014 --> 00:05:18,224 activation, although it could happen. 102 00:05:18,224 --> 00:05:18,774 We talk about that. 103 00:05:19,549 --> 00:05:20,930 The goal is to go into stillness. 104 00:05:20,930 --> 00:05:24,629 Stillness is a combination of shutdown plus safety. 105 00:05:24,629 --> 00:05:27,199 We're trying to get a really good level of safety active 106 00:05:27,259 --> 00:05:29,259 along with permitting shutdown. 107 00:05:29,919 --> 00:05:34,909 Combining those two results in stillness, which feels like relaxation, uh, awe, 108 00:05:34,979 --> 00:05:36,729 maybe, I mean at a really intense level. 109 00:05:37,249 --> 00:05:40,769 But typically, it's going to be relaxation, curiosity, and maybe 110 00:05:40,769 --> 00:05:42,529 even interest about our inner world. 111 00:05:43,549 --> 00:05:48,639 So the fact that there's irritation or other people might feel frustration, 112 00:05:48,649 --> 00:05:53,089 maybe even anger, it's not, "Oh, this doesn't work and therefore I'm angry." 113 00:05:53,229 --> 00:05:56,079 It's, "Oh, there's anger within me in the present moment. 114 00:05:56,089 --> 00:06:00,039 That's a good indication that I'm no longer in shutdown or less than shutdown. 115 00:06:00,779 --> 00:06:03,259 And now I've worked my way up the polyvagal ladder into 116 00:06:03,259 --> 00:06:05,999 my sympathetic flight fight state," but specifically fight. 117 00:06:06,459 --> 00:06:09,999 And as we come out of a shutdown, the first step up 118 00:06:10,039 --> 00:06:11,944 the polyvagal ladder is Fight. 119 00:06:12,394 --> 00:06:15,384 It's gonna be shut down and then fight, flight, and then safety. 120 00:06:15,441 --> 00:06:18,901 We have to work our way out of shutdown in the reverse order 121 00:06:18,901 --> 00:06:20,161 of how we got to shut down. 122 00:06:20,611 --> 00:06:23,801 We got to shut down because we could not be safe, could not run away, could not 123 00:06:23,801 --> 00:06:28,081 fight, whatever it was, or the context of our life, and therefore we shut down. 124 00:06:28,991 --> 00:06:32,641 So to come out of a stuck shutdown state, we have to go through the reverse order. 125 00:06:32,701 --> 00:06:36,901 So shut down, fight, flight, and then back into safety. 126 00:06:37,361 --> 00:06:43,201 As very common and quite predictable as we come out of a stuck shutdown, 127 00:06:43,261 --> 00:06:47,426 we will experience something that comes from the fight activation. 128 00:06:47,896 --> 00:06:52,526 That's typically irritation, like a mild irritation could linger and people 129 00:06:52,526 --> 00:06:56,746 might notice that they feel more snappy even toward people that they care 130 00:06:56,746 --> 00:06:58,386 about, but they're just more irritable. 131 00:06:58,386 --> 00:06:59,266 They snap back. 132 00:06:59,276 --> 00:07:02,076 Um, they're the comments that they make, they're not really 133 00:07:02,076 --> 00:07:03,206 filtering them very much. 134 00:07:03,886 --> 00:07:06,586 So not rage that that rage would come from freeze. 135 00:07:07,136 --> 00:07:10,546 Uh, irritability- irritability is very, very common frustration. 136 00:07:10,546 --> 00:07:11,256 Like I'm tired of this. 137 00:07:11,256 --> 00:07:12,266 "I want to, I want to change. 138 00:07:12,266 --> 00:07:13,756 I want to get out of this stuck state." 139 00:07:14,981 --> 00:07:15,711 Frustration. 140 00:07:15,751 --> 00:07:18,971 Frustration comes from emerging fight activation. 141 00:07:18,981 --> 00:07:22,881 It's a really good sign, potentially, I think a very, very good sign. 142 00:07:22,881 --> 00:07:26,151 I get it when I, when I hear my, my shutdown of clients tell me that 143 00:07:26,151 --> 00:07:29,711 they're feeling frustration, I get excited because like, Here we go. 144 00:07:29,711 --> 00:07:33,531 Now we have some sympathetic activation coming back into your system. 145 00:07:34,031 --> 00:07:38,401 If we can mindfully be with that, then we can start to, uh, or the, the, the next 146 00:07:38,601 --> 00:07:40,401 step of self regulation could unfold. 147 00:07:40,401 --> 00:07:41,701 Let's see how Tegan handled it. 148 00:07:41,701 --> 00:07:46,161 Tegan Got irritated and got up and got mobile. 149 00:07:46,201 --> 00:07:50,081 She says this led to me, this led me to getting irritated 150 00:07:50,091 --> 00:07:51,651 and I got a moved around. 151 00:07:52,031 --> 00:07:52,881 So that's really good. 152 00:07:53,171 --> 00:07:56,591 When we've noticed that there's mobility coming back into our system, flight 153 00:07:56,601 --> 00:07:59,891 fight, when the sympathetic system's coming back on, getting up and moving 154 00:07:59,891 --> 00:08:01,711 around, moving around is a very good idea. 155 00:08:02,091 --> 00:08:03,371 That might be a walk around the block. 156 00:08:03,381 --> 00:08:04,361 It might be doing pushups. 157 00:08:04,361 --> 00:08:08,831 It might be pulling on your hands and flexing your back muscles and 158 00:08:08,831 --> 00:08:10,621 your chest muscles or your biceps. 159 00:08:11,416 --> 00:08:12,966 Movement is great. 160 00:08:13,236 --> 00:08:17,306 So as we feel synthetic activation, if our body's saying to move, get moving. 161 00:08:17,646 --> 00:08:20,116 And it sounds like Tegan, that's kind of what your body was telling you. 162 00:08:20,116 --> 00:08:21,276 It was like, Hey, it's time to get going. 163 00:08:21,366 --> 00:08:21,796 Let's let's move. 164 00:08:22,306 --> 00:08:26,216 So really good sign as far as self regulation, as far as the goals of 165 00:08:26,226 --> 00:08:30,246 settling into stillness, um, this is not stillness, this would be mobility. 166 00:08:30,266 --> 00:08:31,286 And that's, that's great. 167 00:08:32,056 --> 00:08:36,586 But as far as the course goes, the goal is, is, is more and more stillness. 168 00:08:36,626 --> 00:08:41,396 But it's possible that fight activation or sympathetic activation could emerge 169 00:08:41,836 --> 00:08:43,176 and we do address that in the course. 170 00:08:43,256 --> 00:08:46,436 So what happened was she got irritated, moved around, and then 171 00:08:46,436 --> 00:08:48,426 said, get off me and leave me alone. 172 00:08:48,586 --> 00:08:52,056 We know story follows state as Deb Dana says, the thoughts in our 173 00:08:52,056 --> 00:08:55,506 brain are gonna change depending on the dominant state of our body. 174 00:08:55,926 --> 00:08:59,786 So the stories of get off me and leave me alone, that does 175 00:08:59,786 --> 00:09:00,776 not sound like shutdown to me. 176 00:09:00,776 --> 00:09:02,136 That sounds like fight activation. 177 00:09:02,596 --> 00:09:04,456 That sounds like sympathetic activation. 178 00:09:04,466 --> 00:09:05,866 That sounds almost like empowerment. 179 00:09:05,886 --> 00:09:07,606 Like I'm tired of this and I am moving forward. 180 00:09:08,026 --> 00:09:09,236 I am, I am changing. 181 00:09:09,646 --> 00:09:13,066 So get off me, leave me alone, come from fight. 182 00:09:13,736 --> 00:09:19,066 But though that does not to me indicate that there's a mindful 183 00:09:19,066 --> 00:09:20,666 experiencing of fight activation. 184 00:09:20,676 --> 00:09:21,216 And that's okay. 185 00:09:21,916 --> 00:09:28,051 It's, it's, it's normal to come out of shutdown and then sort of, uh, be have 186 00:09:28,071 --> 00:09:30,811 the Fight activation without expecting it. 187 00:09:31,041 --> 00:09:33,931 And so it just feels like frustration and " Ah, forget this stuff.I'm giving up." 188 00:09:34,441 --> 00:09:38,411 But no matter what comes up we want to do the same process. 189 00:09:38,441 --> 00:09:40,671 We want to validate just recognize it for what it is. 190 00:09:41,391 --> 00:09:42,351 We want to normalize it. 191 00:09:42,371 --> 00:09:44,441 Is it normal why I feel fight activation right now? 192 00:09:44,441 --> 00:09:46,241 Yeah, that means I'm coming out of shutdown That's normal. 193 00:09:46,311 --> 00:09:49,301 It's an expected response and then permit it. 194 00:09:49,301 --> 00:09:51,921 Can I permit my fight activation to be here? 195 00:09:51,941 --> 00:09:53,851 Can I let myself feel irritated? 196 00:09:54,441 --> 00:09:56,581 Can I let myself feel frustrated, frustration? 197 00:09:57,021 --> 00:10:00,961 And if so, all of a sudden you give it permission to be there and you 198 00:10:00,971 --> 00:10:02,841 mindfully experience that as well. 199 00:10:03,331 --> 00:10:07,701 And if you can do that, that can unfold the next level of self regulation. 200 00:10:08,201 --> 00:10:13,951 So the stories of get off me and leave me alone, this, this comes from fight 201 00:10:13,951 --> 00:10:18,466 activation, but this, The flavor of this is more toward the defensive side. 202 00:10:18,996 --> 00:10:23,996 This tells me that we're probably losing access to safety and now we're losing 203 00:10:24,006 --> 00:10:29,496 access to compassion and patience and being in the present moment with all 204 00:10:29,496 --> 00:10:31,156 of our experiences with curiosity. 205 00:10:31,516 --> 00:10:33,496 So get off me, leave me alone. 206 00:10:33,676 --> 00:10:34,556 There's rejection there. 207 00:10:34,616 --> 00:10:36,036 I don't want this experience. 208 00:10:36,116 --> 00:10:36,706 Leave me alone. 209 00:10:36,706 --> 00:10:40,536 And I don't blame Teagan or anybody else who has this, uh, this thought 210 00:10:41,136 --> 00:10:42,886 or experience within them at all. 211 00:10:42,926 --> 00:10:45,066 And so it's not a, uh a failure. 212 00:10:45,356 --> 00:10:48,646 And it's not about, you know, me saying you're doing it wrong, that's not it. 213 00:10:49,186 --> 00:10:53,746 It's, we ideally, if we have enough access to our safety state through the 214 00:10:53,746 --> 00:11:00,801 process of self regulation, the thoughts are going to lean toward more safety. 215 00:11:00,801 --> 00:11:01,841 So more self compassion. 216 00:11:01,841 --> 00:11:06,051 So instead of get off me and leave me alone, it might be, I'm doing it. 217 00:11:06,631 --> 00:11:08,801 I'm there's fight activation coming up within me. 218 00:11:08,971 --> 00:11:11,901 I can't believe I'm able to do this or my wonderful body. 219 00:11:11,901 --> 00:11:12,161 Yay. 220 00:11:12,761 --> 00:11:16,771 Or I'm getting to the next step of connecting to myself and deeper in 221 00:11:16,791 --> 00:11:20,411 the present moment, like it'll be, it'll have more hope, more connection. 222 00:11:20,751 --> 00:11:24,751 It, the thoughts will be different if there's more safety in the system. 223 00:11:25,341 --> 00:11:29,261 With less safety, there's more rejection of what's happening within. 224 00:11:29,361 --> 00:11:31,391 So even though we don't like the shutdown experience, I 225 00:11:31,401 --> 00:11:32,421 don't blame anybody for that. 226 00:11:33,151 --> 00:11:34,331 It's not, it's not pleasurable. 227 00:11:35,241 --> 00:11:38,691 Even though we don't like it, we can still have compassion and empathy 228 00:11:38,691 --> 00:11:42,041 and understanding for, for it or for our, the experiences of our life 229 00:11:42,041 --> 00:11:43,771 and for our stuck defensive state. 230 00:11:44,071 --> 00:11:48,211 So get off me, leave me alone, totally understandable, but there might be 231 00:11:48,211 --> 00:11:52,151 some loss of defensive, of safety state there and leaning a little bit more into 232 00:11:52,171 --> 00:11:55,901 defensive activation, though she does say I stayed grounded and felt connected. 233 00:11:55,921 --> 00:11:56,831 So that's a really good sign. 234 00:11:57,056 --> 00:11:58,826 So is it all or nothing like all defense? 235 00:11:58,826 --> 00:12:01,636 No, but there's a little definitely some defense there and there's 236 00:12:01,646 --> 00:12:04,186 still some safety present to feel grounded and connected. 237 00:12:04,576 --> 00:12:06,356 Probably out of a good enough balance to keep going. 238 00:12:06,746 --> 00:12:10,996 Um, but I would lean more toward reconnecting the moment, reconnecting 239 00:12:10,996 --> 00:12:14,686 to the present moment experience in your body with compassion as much 240 00:12:14,686 --> 00:12:18,396 as you can and definitely validate, normalize, and give permission to the 241 00:12:18,406 --> 00:12:21,836 fight activation as it's coming up if that's your goal, if your goal is to 242 00:12:21,836 --> 00:12:24,976 keep self regulating up the palovigil ladder, then validate, normalize, and 243 00:12:24,976 --> 00:12:26,846 give permission to the fight activation. 244 00:12:27,426 --> 00:12:31,096 Tegan says energy definitely came back, but only for about 10 minutes. 245 00:12:31,886 --> 00:12:33,526 Shutdown returned, although not as heavy. 246 00:12:33,896 --> 00:12:35,156 That's pretty expected. 247 00:12:35,236 --> 00:12:37,676 The 10 minutes, there's no hard and fast rule about this. 248 00:12:37,676 --> 00:12:38,386 It is what it is. 249 00:12:38,806 --> 00:12:42,346 Uh, but shut down returning, but not as heavy. 250 00:12:42,366 --> 00:12:43,976 That's That's a really good sign. 251 00:12:44,416 --> 00:12:46,756 That's a pretty good sign that we are working our way out of shutdown. 252 00:12:46,756 --> 00:12:48,416 It's not all or nothing It's not all at once. 253 00:12:49,021 --> 00:12:52,561 We work our way out of defensive states a little bit at a time, and 254 00:12:52,561 --> 00:12:55,691 we likely will go back into that defensive state, um, even as a 255 00:12:55,691 --> 00:12:58,521 dominant state, but not as intense. 256 00:12:58,701 --> 00:13:03,941 So things just sort of get better or feel better over time, little by little. 257 00:13:03,941 --> 00:13:06,101 And this is a really good indication that that's what's happening. 258 00:13:06,101 --> 00:13:07,871 There's more mobility coming back in the system. 259 00:13:08,401 --> 00:13:09,761 And less shutdown. 260 00:13:09,831 --> 00:13:12,141 The amount of time that's not super important. 261 00:13:12,141 --> 00:13:16,401 I don't think if you want to draw out, well, that's, I would worry less 262 00:13:16,401 --> 00:13:21,471 about how much time it is and how much compared to like how much permission 263 00:13:21,471 --> 00:13:22,711 you're giving it for it to be there. 264 00:13:23,111 --> 00:13:28,131 So if you can give your fight activation permission to be present for two minutes, 265 00:13:28,191 --> 00:13:32,141 but it's like, you're really feeling it and owning it with compassion, uh, 266 00:13:32,521 --> 00:13:37,506 that's better than to me, that's probably better than struggling with it for, for 267 00:13:37,506 --> 00:13:38,916 10 minutes and try to hold on to it. 268 00:13:38,916 --> 00:13:43,416 And I think just feel it with compassion, feel it, validate it, normalize 269 00:13:43,416 --> 00:13:44,466 it, give it permission to be there. 270 00:13:45,116 --> 00:13:47,126 If you can do that, even if it's only two minutes, that's 271 00:13:47,126 --> 00:13:48,606 a huge win in my, in my book. 272 00:13:49,006 --> 00:13:52,696 Tegan says, It feels like I went from shutdown straight to fight 273 00:13:52,726 --> 00:13:54,146 without the stillness phase. 274 00:13:54,166 --> 00:13:55,166 Does this matter? 275 00:13:55,616 --> 00:13:57,726 Any insights as to why this may have happened? 276 00:13:57,986 --> 00:13:59,266 No, you had the stillness phase. 277 00:13:59,456 --> 00:14:03,036 Um, And again, the time doesn't really matter, it's going to 278 00:14:03,036 --> 00:14:03,786 be different for everybody. 279 00:14:04,306 --> 00:14:08,556 But the fact that you're able to sit still or stand or whatever you're doing, 280 00:14:08,956 --> 00:14:12,506 sit still and look inward, the fact that you're able to use imagery and 281 00:14:12,506 --> 00:14:16,336 give yourself the, allow there to be an image for the shutdown experience, 282 00:14:16,346 --> 00:14:17,296 all that comes from stillness. 283 00:14:17,296 --> 00:14:21,686 So you already had some level of stillness and you had so much anchoring 284 00:14:21,736 --> 00:14:28,701 in your safety state into stillness with shutdown that you were actually able to 285 00:14:28,701 --> 00:14:30,771 allow the next step of self regulation. 286 00:14:31,221 --> 00:14:32,451 So there was, there was definitely stillness. 287 00:14:32,451 --> 00:14:33,131 It was already there. 288 00:14:33,511 --> 00:14:37,301 You, the dominant shutdown state plus present moment safety state 289 00:14:37,321 --> 00:14:40,131 that is stillness that those combined to create stillness. 290 00:14:40,291 --> 00:14:43,551 So if you can immobilize and be okay with it, you are in stillness. 291 00:14:44,161 --> 00:14:48,141 We just want the experience of that, the access to that to grow. 292 00:14:48,671 --> 00:14:51,361 So, you know, like I told people who joined the course, the fact 293 00:14:51,361 --> 00:14:54,561 that you're showing up, sitting down and thinking critically, you're 294 00:14:54,561 --> 00:14:56,211 already have some level of stillness. 295 00:14:56,591 --> 00:14:57,921 We just want to draw that out a little bit. 296 00:14:57,941 --> 00:14:59,011 We want to get deeper into that. 297 00:14:59,011 --> 00:15:01,711 We want to notice the experience of stillness mindfully. 298 00:15:02,381 --> 00:15:05,441 So Tegan, it sounds like you have a pretty good amount of stillness already. 299 00:15:05,741 --> 00:15:06,361 And. 300 00:15:06,876 --> 00:15:09,476 So much so that your body's like, cool, now we're ready 301 00:15:09,476 --> 00:15:10,876 for some more self regulation. 302 00:15:11,166 --> 00:15:14,286 Tegan says, I can still feel that I'm frustrated with being in 303 00:15:14,286 --> 00:15:18,256 shutdown as I write this, but also a little anxious about this too. 304 00:15:18,496 --> 00:15:20,666 So, let's, let's focus on the frustration. 305 00:15:21,346 --> 00:15:22,936 Frustrated with being in shutdown. 306 00:15:23,186 --> 00:15:27,136 Uh, yeah, that's probably true, but, let's, Frustration, that's 307 00:15:27,136 --> 00:15:28,076 the important thing there. 308 00:15:28,526 --> 00:15:32,426 No matter what you're frustrated about, frustration sign that, that, 309 00:15:32,436 --> 00:15:35,106 uh, is evidence of fight activation. 310 00:15:36,021 --> 00:15:38,011 So, of mobility, let's call it that. 311 00:15:38,011 --> 00:15:41,891 If you're frustrated, no matter what you say your frustration is about, 312 00:15:42,471 --> 00:15:45,281 the fact that you're frustrated is a pretty good sign that we now 313 00:15:45,291 --> 00:15:47,161 have more mobility in the system. 314 00:15:47,561 --> 00:15:49,291 The brain is gonna come up with an explanation. 315 00:15:49,291 --> 00:15:51,871 It's gonna say, I'm frustrated about my shutdown, or I'm 316 00:15:51,871 --> 00:15:53,541 frustrated about that thing at work. 317 00:15:53,881 --> 00:15:57,771 Whatever the about is, hey, your body is in a state of mobilization. 318 00:15:57,811 --> 00:15:59,491 That is, fantastic. 319 00:16:00,141 --> 00:16:02,541 That is a much different experience than shutdown. 320 00:16:02,901 --> 00:16:04,851 And then Tegan says, I'm also a little anxious. 321 00:16:04,851 --> 00:16:07,671 That could be some flight activation in the system as well. 322 00:16:08,411 --> 00:16:11,671 And it's, I like how you said that it's a little anxious. 323 00:16:11,681 --> 00:16:14,631 So it's kind of there, it's emerging, but the frustration, the 324 00:16:14,631 --> 00:16:17,161 fight activation is more dominant. 325 00:16:17,161 --> 00:16:22,551 And so that, that tells me that shutdown might be receding fight 326 00:16:22,551 --> 00:16:24,551 activations, increasing, and there's even a little bit of flight 327 00:16:24,561 --> 00:16:26,151 activation coming along with that. 328 00:16:26,161 --> 00:16:26,181 Yeah. 329 00:16:26,866 --> 00:16:29,416 Remember the Polyvagal Ladder, shut down to fight to flight. 330 00:16:29,566 --> 00:16:33,686 Tegan asks, How can I sustain any returning energy for more than 10 minutes? 331 00:16:33,976 --> 00:16:34,846 I wouldn't try to. 332 00:16:34,846 --> 00:16:36,976 I wouldn't try to make it last a certain amount of time. 333 00:16:37,316 --> 00:16:38,566 I wouldn't try to limit it. 334 00:16:38,676 --> 00:16:41,846 Um, Ideally, we're with it as it's there. 335 00:16:42,456 --> 00:16:44,386 And the body will do what it needs to do. 336 00:16:44,896 --> 00:16:49,941 So, if it's there, and again, if you can feel it mindfully, And be with 337 00:16:49,941 --> 00:16:53,911 that activation in your body and feel it probably breathing in your chest 338 00:16:54,261 --> 00:16:58,191 if you can feel your muscle starting to tense up That tells me oh, there's 339 00:16:58,191 --> 00:17:02,191 something happening within me if you can be with that Maybe use a fidget to 340 00:17:02,191 --> 00:17:06,491 like release it Or pull on your hands or push on a wall or just whatever 341 00:17:06,501 --> 00:17:08,231 feels right or just go for a walk. 342 00:17:08,241 --> 00:17:13,351 That's fine, too If you can be with that emerging mobility, I I personally 343 00:17:13,351 --> 00:17:14,911 don't care how long it lasts. 344 00:17:15,281 --> 00:17:18,706 We just want to be with it and that gives permission for it to 345 00:17:18,706 --> 00:17:21,056 be, to stay, to, to, to remain. 346 00:17:21,746 --> 00:17:26,606 So the next time you try out this, your self regulation practices, you're 347 00:17:26,806 --> 00:17:28,236 probably going to be more successful. 348 00:17:28,356 --> 00:17:30,456 It'll probably have an easier time coming back. 349 00:17:30,876 --> 00:17:33,156 The shutdown, the dominant shutdown will continue to just 350 00:17:33,156 --> 00:17:35,676 soften and recede in intensity. 351 00:17:35,906 --> 00:17:37,646 So I wouldn't worry about how long it lasts for. 352 00:17:38,266 --> 00:17:40,716 To me, if we're worrying about, am I doing it right? 353 00:17:40,726 --> 00:17:42,106 Is it the right amount of time? 354 00:17:42,106 --> 00:17:42,526 Yeah. 355 00:17:42,866 --> 00:17:47,476 That comes from evaluation, which comes more from defensive activation. 356 00:17:47,966 --> 00:17:49,616 Don't worry about doing it right or wrong. 357 00:17:50,086 --> 00:17:52,626 Do the best you can to to be with it. 358 00:17:52,626 --> 00:17:57,866 She asks, Is it unrealistic to expect more having been shut down for so long? 359 00:17:58,176 --> 00:17:59,066 Yeah, probably. 360 00:18:00,156 --> 00:18:03,016 Yeah, and then the flight or the intensity of it, the flavor of it, 361 00:18:03,026 --> 00:18:05,296 how long it hangs out in your system. 362 00:18:05,946 --> 00:18:09,056 As you keep tapping into mobility, it's going to shift. 363 00:18:09,066 --> 00:18:10,206 It's going to change today. 364 00:18:10,206 --> 00:18:14,386 It might be frustration, but all of a sudden you have a win and now you're 365 00:18:14,386 --> 00:18:17,906 feeling more self compassion and then so tomorrow it's going to feel like 366 00:18:17,906 --> 00:18:22,306 motivation and two weeks from now it might feel like creativity and two weeks 367 00:18:22,306 --> 00:18:25,416 from then it might feel like, Oh, I'm ready to like apply to that new job. 368 00:18:25,416 --> 00:18:26,646 It might feel like productivity. 369 00:18:26,776 --> 00:18:30,866 Maybe it'll feel like I'm ready to go exercise or, you know, like it changes. 370 00:18:30,876 --> 00:18:31,416 So. 371 00:18:32,021 --> 00:18:36,261 Don't worry about, I wouldn't worry again about time, uh, how intense it is, all 372 00:18:36,261 --> 00:18:40,321 that stuff, just whatever it is, it is, like, be with it, be with it as it is 373 00:18:40,801 --> 00:18:42,441 in the present moment as best you can. 374 00:18:42,661 --> 00:18:46,661 Having been stuck in shutdown for so long, yeah, the returning activation 375 00:18:46,721 --> 00:18:50,586 probably won't be super intense, especially if you're focusing on safety. 376 00:18:51,106 --> 00:18:56,646 If you're focusing on safety as central to self regulation, which I highly recommend 377 00:18:56,646 --> 00:19:01,646 and really harp on in my courses, if you focus on safety, then the returning 378 00:19:01,646 --> 00:19:05,286 defensive activation will be smaller, like it'll feel like irritability. 379 00:19:05,631 --> 00:19:08,551 It won't feel like, oh my god, I'm angry out of nowhere. 380 00:19:09,011 --> 00:19:11,511 It'll feel like irritability and so that's something you can notice 381 00:19:11,531 --> 00:19:12,991 and you can totally sit with that. 382 00:19:13,061 --> 00:19:15,851 You can validate that and normalize it and permit it to be there. 383 00:19:16,061 --> 00:19:20,221 Tegan's final question is, Should I focus on harnessing this frustration 384 00:19:20,221 --> 00:19:25,151 with shutdown, using my safety anchors, or return to focusing 385 00:19:25,161 --> 00:19:26,511 on permission and stillness? 386 00:19:27,251 --> 00:19:29,291 I recommend focusing on stillness. 387 00:19:29,931 --> 00:19:33,461 When you do that, it is very likely, especially for you, it sounds like 388 00:19:33,621 --> 00:19:35,511 there's some emerging fight activation. 389 00:19:36,501 --> 00:19:40,916 When you focus on settling into stillness through safety anchors, 390 00:19:41,026 --> 00:19:42,406 your body will take care of the rest. 391 00:19:42,406 --> 00:19:45,056 Like it'll, you'll feel that activation come up within you 392 00:19:45,066 --> 00:19:46,246 just like it, you did here. 393 00:19:46,866 --> 00:19:50,286 So the body will take care of the rest, but the focus is what's 394 00:19:50,286 --> 00:19:51,426 happening in the present moment. 395 00:19:51,866 --> 00:19:55,216 What's happening in the present moment inside of me, or maybe can I connect 396 00:19:55,226 --> 00:19:56,936 to the present moment externally? 397 00:19:57,566 --> 00:19:59,476 Can I use my senses mindfully? 398 00:19:59,756 --> 00:20:01,176 And what does it feel like to do that? 399 00:20:01,186 --> 00:20:04,886 All that requires a really good level of stillness, which requires safety. 400 00:20:05,326 --> 00:20:07,936 So keep doing the safety anchors practice, make sure you're in a 401 00:20:07,986 --> 00:20:10,946 passive safety environment that we built that in building safety 402 00:20:10,946 --> 00:20:11,956 anchors to teach you how to do that. 403 00:20:13,136 --> 00:20:16,296 Make sure you have passive safety, mindfully experienced what it's like to 404 00:20:16,306 --> 00:20:19,996 be in your safety state, and then say, Hey, what's it like to be in shutdown? 405 00:20:20,076 --> 00:20:20,976 Let that be there. 406 00:20:21,006 --> 00:20:24,376 That that'll, when you permit that, that'll connect with safety. 407 00:20:24,376 --> 00:20:25,446 That'll bring into stillness. 408 00:20:26,036 --> 00:20:27,656 And then from stillness, what's that like? 409 00:20:27,676 --> 00:20:28,486 And all of a sudden. 410 00:20:28,866 --> 00:20:32,076 We're off to the races and you might be, you might notice some 411 00:20:32,126 --> 00:20:35,946 emerging fight activation coming back up within your mobility. 412 00:20:35,956 --> 00:20:37,856 You might notice yourself becoming more mobile. 413 00:20:38,176 --> 00:20:40,776 If you can notice more mobility and act on it. 414 00:20:41,651 --> 00:20:44,821 All of a sudden, we're now at that next level of self regulation. 415 00:20:44,961 --> 00:20:46,401 Tegan, it sounds like you're doing a really good job. 416 00:20:46,401 --> 00:20:48,771 I'm really glad that you're in the Shutdown to Stillness course. 417 00:20:49,251 --> 00:20:51,831 Uh, dear listener, if you're interested in joining us, I do 418 00:20:51,831 --> 00:20:53,321 a live cohort version of it. 419 00:20:53,331 --> 00:20:54,271 So far, it's been awesome. 420 00:20:54,301 --> 00:20:57,801 I've been really enjoying it and the group aspect of it. 421 00:20:57,971 --> 00:20:59,441 I keep hearing from the people involved. 422 00:20:59,441 --> 00:21:03,811 Like this, this is like maybe the best part of this, the material is great, 423 00:21:04,261 --> 00:21:07,961 but having other people and feeling normal and connecting with others in 424 00:21:07,961 --> 00:21:12,001 the same boat, like it really hits home for them and it feels right. 425 00:21:12,001 --> 00:21:13,611 So I'm really enjoying shutdown. 426 00:21:13,611 --> 00:21:14,741 That's a, that's a live version. 427 00:21:15,111 --> 00:21:17,411 I also have a standalone self paced version. 428 00:21:17,411 --> 00:21:21,091 If that's your more, more of your cup of tea, that is all within 429 00:21:21,091 --> 00:21:22,441 the total access membership. 430 00:21:22,641 --> 00:21:27,541 It's only 90 bucks for three months and you get total access to all my 431 00:21:27,541 --> 00:21:31,381 courses, the, the wonderful Stucknaut Collective private community. 432 00:21:31,501 --> 00:21:35,611 So Fellow Stucknaut, if you are ready to take that next step and start 433 00:21:35,611 --> 00:21:41,676 learning simply and clearly and taking very practical action steps on your 434 00:21:41,766 --> 00:21:46,446 trauma recovery journey, I, I welcome you, I invite you into the Stuck 435 00:21:46,446 --> 00:21:48,726 Not Broken Total Access membership. 436 00:21:49,146 --> 00:21:52,386 You'll get all the lessons you need plus connect with others. 437 00:21:52,716 --> 00:21:54,066 It's a wonderful little community. 438 00:21:54,066 --> 00:21:56,826 Seriously, I, I love it there, and I, I cannot wait to invite 439 00:21:56,826 --> 00:21:58,506 you into the Stucknaut Collective. 440 00:21:58,812 --> 00:22:02,252 This podcast is not therapy, not intended to be therapy or 441 00:22:02,252 --> 00:22:03,852 be a replacement for therapy. 442 00:22:04,652 --> 00:22:08,032 Nothing in this creates or indicates a therapeutic relationship. 443 00:22:08,872 --> 00:22:12,322 Please consult with your therapist or seek for one in your area if you are 444 00:22:12,322 --> 00:22:14,232 experiencing mental health symptoms. 445 00:22:15,062 --> 00:22:17,912 Nothing in this podcast should be construed to be specific life 446 00:22:17,912 --> 00:22:21,432 advice, it is for educational and entertainment purposes only.