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 Welcome to the VP Life Podcast, the show

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 where we bring you actionable health

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 advice from leading minds.

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 I'm your host Rob.

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 My guest today is Hazel Cotton, a nervous

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 system practitioner who works with people

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 suffering from chronic unexplained

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 symptoms such as ME, CFS, fibromyalgia,

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 long COVID and burnout, conditions that

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 often fall through the cracks of

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 conventional medicine.

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 Expect to learn why chronic illness is

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 often driven by nervous system

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 dysregulation rather than structural

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 damage or misdiagnosis, how chronic

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 stress, trauma and limbic system

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 overdrive keep the body stuck in survival

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 mode and what actually helps people

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 recover when tests are normal but

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 symptoms are very real.

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 Now, on to the

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 conversation with Hazel Cotton.

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 Good afternoon Hazel.

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 Thank you for joining us

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 on the VP Life Podcast.

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 I must admit it's great interviewing

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 someone in the UK for a change.

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 Don't get me wrong, I love every chance I

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 get to to speak to the people I do and

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 that I've looked up for years but when

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 they're in the States and on the West

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 Coast that it does get pretty tiring

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 pretty quickly especially when you're

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 trying to be cognitively functional at 6

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 or 7 o'clock at night.

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 Anyway, you've caught the story.

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 Before we dive into everything sort of

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 central nervous system and central

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 nervous system related today, I'd love to

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 hear all about it, how you ended up in

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 the space you're in and how you're

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 working with the people you are.

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 We've tiled plenty,

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 so yeah, go on to all

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 the detail you like.

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 It's great to be the Brit

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 and thank you for having me.

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 Though I have a history of chronic

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 illnesses, I had a lot of symptoms

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 throughout many years, a couple of

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 decades, starting off with chronic pain

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 which originated from a shoulder injury

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 actually, carrying a laptop, nothing

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 exciting and gradually the pain just

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 spread and spread and spread and I went

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 to see so many different people and no

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 one knew what to do with it.

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 The pain just kept on spreading.

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 I saw surgeons and physiotherapists and

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 all sorts of people and so I was in a lot

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 of pain for a lot of my late 20s, early

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 30s and then gradually

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 it kind of got better.

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 I actually was seeing a muscle activation

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 technique guy in New York that somehow

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 managed to do something with me.

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 I'd also had some other underlying

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 symptoms which now I look back were also

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 warning signs like painful joints in my

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 hands, noise sensitivity,

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 constant like tonsillitis ulcers, little

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 things that you don't really put your

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 finger on and then I was back in the UK

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 and I was going to get a

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 surgery on my shoulder.

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 Finally I was going to be ready, rearing

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 to go, ready to do exercise again.

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 Had this surgery which went perfectly

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 well, it was just for an impingement, it

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 wasn't like a big surgery and a week

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 later my body just crashed, crashed to

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 the floor and I didn't

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 know what earth was going on.

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 I literally couldn't

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 move, the fatigue was immense.

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 I developed extreme food sensitivities to

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 the point where I didn't even

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 know what I could eat anymore.

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 It did actually end up running a pattern

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 of kind of nuts and seafood but there was

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 lots of other random things so there was

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 a kind of fear created around food, not

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 knowing how I was going to react and it

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 would come on immediately and then I

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 would be basically just extremely ill,

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 like an immune

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 response ill, not digestive.

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 Then I was gradually getting better for

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 over three years so I had chronic fatigue

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 syndrome essentially.

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 I didn't get formally diagnosed with it.

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 We'll come on to diagnosis later in terms

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 of why I am not a massive fan of them in

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 general but I knew it.

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 I tried lots of different therapies, lots

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 of different things, some

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 of them worked to a degree.

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 I got myself gradually better.

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 I still had limitations over what I could

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 do but I was a lot better.

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 I could actually like function as a human

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 being and then 2020, COVID came and I got

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 COVID and I was no sicker

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 than your average person.

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 I mean it wasn't pleasant but it wasn't

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 debilitating, it wasn't

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 hospitalized or anything.

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 It did end up in a ventilator.

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 Yeah and then just as I thought I was on

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 my road to recovery, out of the weeds,

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 crushed down completely again and it was

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 just like going back in time and the fear

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 and panic that came over me from

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 thinking, "Oh my goodness, what if this

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 is another three years

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 or whatever of this?"

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 It wasn't just the fatigue as well.

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 I actually developed a really bad brain

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 fog and really bad noise sensitivity and

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 kind of was prone to overwhelm.

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 So when my system became overwhelmed

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 essentially, which could be just doing

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 anything to be honest, like going into an

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 environment I didn't like or if I did too

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 much of anything, which at the beginning

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 the window of tolerance was very small, I

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 would just start coming

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 out in flood of tears.

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 I wasn't actually upset as such, it was

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 just like the overwhelm

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 of the nervous system.

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 So the only benefit of getting sick twice

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 was that I knew what to do.

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 So I went back to all the things I was

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 trying previously, gradually was getting

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 better but the symptoms were not

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 shifting, especially the brain fog and I

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 was just struggling with this kind of

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 plateau and trying to just get better.

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 All the time that I had the symptoms for

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 like probably like six, seven years, I

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 knew that there was something not quite

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 right but I couldn't put my finger on it.

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 I knew that there must be, I wasn't sick

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 before so I always had the hope that I

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 was going to get better, I just hadn't

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 worked out what it was yet and then I

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 just came across the nervous system

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 because it suddenly was in the public

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 domain, people were suddenly talking

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 about the nervous system and they weren't

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 previously and once I found out about the

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 nervous system it just was like oh my

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 goodness this makes sense.

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 So I then left my corporate job, once I'd

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 learned how to basically heal all my

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 symptoms and work out how to do it, I

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 then retrained and I left my corporate

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 job and I set up my business to now help

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 other people who are

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 in similar situations.

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 It's around awareness of the nervous

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 system, awareness of what chronic

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 illnesses really mean, what burnout of

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 the nervous system really means and

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 helping people to get better essentially

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 when there's no help available in our

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 health system for conditions like this.

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 Yeah, no that's an amazing story and it

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 speaks to your ability to push through

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 which I think, and this is something

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 we'll come to later, where so many people

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 just will not only push through but

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 become self-reliant.

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 I think so many people just fall victim

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 to this idea that they should just rely

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 on their doctor and the NHS or whatever

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 the equivalent social welfare health

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 system is that the listener is

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 whichever country they're in.

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 Yeah, yeah.

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 So yeah, no that's remarkable and the

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 fact that you were able to sort of work

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 that out is just a sort of a world

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 testament to I suppose

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 your ability to push through.

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 I would love to come back to

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 some of that stuff in a second.

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 Something you talked about earlier sort

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 of really struck home though and that was

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 it almost started unfold

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 sort of after the initial op.

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 Do you think you had a negative reaction

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 to the anesthesia or anything like that?

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 No, that's what I initially thought and

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 what people may think.

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 I think that what happened was my nervous

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 system had been dysregulated for years.

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 It was susceptible to some kind of crash

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 as we now know, as I now know caused by

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 chronic extra assets in the body that

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 therefore weakens the functions within

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 the body essentially.

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 And I don't think it had anything to do

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 with the anaesthetic per se apart from it

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 was a I guess the operation the

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 anaesthetic essentially was

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 maybe a trauma to the body.

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 It was something that happened to the

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 body that was out of the norm.

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 And it just kind of threw it over which

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 is why when people find themselves in

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 these situations with chronic illnesses

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 there's only a number of different routes

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 that people come in from to get there.

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 Covid being one.

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 I don't think that Covid in general is

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 anything particular apart from it's a

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 strong virus that throws

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 systems off that are already weak.

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 There are some anomalies with Covid in

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 terms of the organ damage and stuff which

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 is kind of separate but in terms of the

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 post viral fatigue element, glandular

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 fever, other strong viruses,

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 Covid it's just a strong it could be a

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 car crash, it could be a significant life

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 event like a divorce, like a death.

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 It's something that if your system is I

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 don't know weeks the wrong way but like

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 susceptible it can it will push you over

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 the edge and that's why it people come in

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 from any number of different life stories

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 and what's got them there

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 and it's also cumulative.

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 So if you've got lots of small things

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 happening it could be just that final one

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 that pushes you over.

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 Most people are when they do end up kind

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 of crashing as such they probably would

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 look back and say I was probably quite

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 stressed at the time or oh yeah I think

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 of some other things that happened in the

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 past that maybe had contributed towards

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 it but it's generally like

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 retrospectively people can then attribute

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 what's kind of going on in their life to

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 then what kind of

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 happens to them physically.

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 Fair enough yeah that makes complete

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 sense and I suppose that's really the

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 perfect segue to talking about the

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 nervous system which is what I'd really

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 like to sort of to maybe dive into now

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 but before we get into I suppose the the

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 meat and the potatoes of today's

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 conversation which is essentially I

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 suppose how you fix this but at a high

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 level would you mind walking us through

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 what the central nervous system is.

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 Obviously it's composed of two branches

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 and there's also something there called

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 the vagus nerve but I feel if we can just

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 lay out that basic sort of biology and

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 physiology the rest of the conversation

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 will just flow just a

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00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:36,916
 little bit more naturally.

278
00:10:37,666 --> 00:10:39,500
 So yeah would you mind running us through

279
00:10:39,500 --> 00:10:41,500
 how the nervous system works like that's

280
00:10:41,500 --> 00:10:42,458
 a little one-on-one as it were.

281
00:10:42,708 --> 00:10:44,083
 Yeah so we've got the central nervous

282
00:10:44,083 --> 00:10:46,041
 system and the autonomic nervous system

283
00:10:46,041 --> 00:10:47,541
 and it's actually the autonomic nervous

284
00:10:47,541 --> 00:10:50,458
 system which we pay most attention to

285
00:10:50,458 --> 00:10:53,166
 when it comes to dysregulation and the

286
00:10:53,166 --> 00:10:54,916
 chronic symptoms that people experience

287
00:10:54,916 --> 00:10:58,083
 and there's two putting it simply there's

288
00:10:58,083 --> 00:10:59,833
 the two main branches there's the

289
00:10:59,833 --> 00:11:01,333
 sympathetic and there's the

290
00:11:01,333 --> 00:11:04,000
 parasympathetic and the sympathetic is

291
00:11:04,000 --> 00:11:06,750
 what we know is the fight or flight it

292
00:11:06,750 --> 00:11:09,750
 what activates when we are in danger if

293
00:11:09,750 --> 00:11:11,125
 we're about to cross the road and there's

294
00:11:11,125 --> 00:11:13,791
 a lorry coming or if there's a bear in

295
00:11:13,791 --> 00:11:17,250
 the woods we would switch on and we

296
00:11:17,250 --> 00:11:19,083
 would, you know, symptoms have happened

297
00:11:19,083 --> 00:11:22,375
 like fast heart rate well coming palms

298
00:11:22,375 --> 00:11:25,166
 and we'd be in like fight or flight mode.

299
00:11:25,833 --> 00:11:27,416
 There's also then the parasympathetic

300
00:11:27,416 --> 00:11:31,250
 branch which is our rest and digest which

301
00:11:31,250 --> 00:11:33,541
 is what we should be in most of the time

302
00:11:33,541 --> 00:11:36,666
 it's when we are at rest it's when we're

303
00:11:36,666 --> 00:11:38,875
 kind of our heart rate is steady it's

304
00:11:38,875 --> 00:11:41,416
 when we're kind of calm and and that's

305
00:11:41,416 --> 00:11:43,375
 kind of the two different states that

306
00:11:43,375 --> 00:11:45,333
 we're in so you've got the two different

307
00:11:45,333 --> 00:11:48,000
 nervous system states which is then the

308
00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:50,208
 parasympathetic and the sympathetic and

309
00:11:50,208 --> 00:11:52,458
 what a regulated nervous system will do

310
00:11:52,458 --> 00:11:55,250
 is it will switch between the two as and

311
00:11:55,250 --> 00:11:57,416
 when it's needed it will switch quickly

312
00:11:57,416 --> 00:11:58,750
 into one and it will switch

313
00:11:58,791 --> 00:12:00,041
 quickly out into the other.

314
00:12:00,625 --> 00:12:02,375
 When you are dysregulated when you've

315
00:12:02,375 --> 00:12:03,833
 been in a state of chronic stress for a

316
00:12:03,833 --> 00:12:06,833
 long time that's when that shift doesn't

317
00:12:06,833 --> 00:12:09,458
 happen and you can get stuck in fight or

318
00:12:09,458 --> 00:12:11,666
 flight for too long and then if you've

319
00:12:11,666 --> 00:12:13,500
 been in that for too long you can then

320
00:12:13,500 --> 00:12:15,500
 end up going into shutdown mode

321
00:12:15,500 --> 00:12:18,125
 essentially and the vagus nerve which a

322
00:12:18,125 --> 00:12:19,333
 lot of people are talking about these

323
00:12:19,333 --> 00:12:22,125
 days is so critical it's like the longest

324
00:12:22,125 --> 00:12:24,583
 nerve that we have going on in our body

325
00:12:24,583 --> 00:12:28,041
 and it determines whether to switch on

326
00:12:28,041 --> 00:12:30,458
 the parasympathetic or the sympathetic

327
00:12:30,458 --> 00:12:34,000
 branch so it's super important that we

328
00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:37,125
 are able to learn how to control as such

329
00:12:37,125 --> 00:12:39,666
 our vagus nerve so that we are able to

330
00:12:39,666 --> 00:12:43,916
 then effectively switch into the rest and

331
00:12:43,916 --> 00:12:45,750
 digest or the fight or flight as we

332
00:12:45,750 --> 00:12:47,750
 needed so that's kind

333
00:12:47,750 --> 00:12:48,666
 of it in a nutshell.

334
00:12:49,958 --> 00:12:51,958
 Now that's perfect now from what I

335
00:12:51,958 --> 00:12:53,125
 understand there are a few different

336
00:12:53,125 --> 00:12:54,541
 branches of the vagus nerve is that

337
00:12:54,541 --> 00:12:56,875
 correct and sort of depending on which

338
00:12:56,875 --> 00:13:00,250
 branch you're in that's going to dictate

339
00:13:00,958 --> 00:13:02,750
 maybe whether you're more sympathetic or

340
00:13:02,750 --> 00:13:05,958
 parasympathetic and now there are various

341
00:13:05,958 --> 00:13:08,000
 ways that you can activate the vagus

342
00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:10,500
 nerve do you always want the vagus nerve

343
00:13:10,500 --> 00:13:13,833
 activated or is that sort of a bit of a

344
00:13:13,833 --> 00:13:17,000
 misnomer do you want it to sort of I

345
00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:18,500
 suppose vacillate a bit like everything

346
00:13:18,500 --> 00:13:20,958
 else in life I assume you don't want this

347
00:13:20,958 --> 00:13:23,458
 vagus nerve to be on

348
00:13:23,458 --> 00:13:24,833
 all the time as it were.

349
00:13:25,416 --> 00:13:29,208
 No it is around activating it when you

350
00:13:29,208 --> 00:13:32,041
 need to and when you need to be able to

351
00:13:32,041 --> 00:13:34,583
 get yourself into rest and digest more

352
00:13:34,583 --> 00:13:36,916
 easily and more quickly there's lots of

353
00:13:36,916 --> 00:13:38,875
 exercises that you could do they're

354
00:13:38,875 --> 00:13:40,541
 called like vagal toning exercises

355
00:13:40,541 --> 00:13:42,750
 essentially which is getting your vagus

356
00:13:42,750 --> 00:13:45,916
 nerve to be more toned especially imagine

357
00:13:45,916 --> 00:13:49,000
 it's like a muscle that you're using and

358
00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:51,541
 it's going to become increasingly used it

359
00:13:51,541 --> 00:13:54,000
 will increasingly know how to be able to

360
00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:56,500
 switch into the right state that you need

361
00:13:56,500 --> 00:13:59,333
 so if you were to do like any vagal

362
00:13:59,333 --> 00:14:01,083
 toning exercises I mean there's little

363
00:14:01,083 --> 00:14:03,875
 ones like just pulling your ear down and

364
00:14:03,875 --> 00:14:05,500
 there's ones where you can kind of follow

365
00:14:05,500 --> 00:14:08,291
 your finger around with your eye and

366
00:14:08,500 --> 00:14:09,916
 you're looking up to the right there's a

367
00:14:09,916 --> 00:14:13,000
 few different ones that you can do you

368
00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:17,666
 will generally speaking start yawning or

369
00:14:17,666 --> 00:14:21,375
 sighing and that demonstrates that you

370
00:14:21,375 --> 00:14:23,125
 are switching into the parasympathetic

371
00:14:23,125 --> 00:14:25,625
 because it's therefore putting you into

372
00:14:25,625 --> 00:14:28,041
 that rest and digest state so if you are

373
00:14:28,041 --> 00:14:30,500
 in a state of like anxiety and feeling

374
00:14:30,500 --> 00:14:33,416
 fraught and feeling kind of on edge if

375
00:14:33,416 --> 00:14:36,083
 you could do these practices frequently

376
00:14:36,083 --> 00:14:39,208
 then it will your system will get used to

377
00:14:39,208 --> 00:14:41,458
 kind of being in that rest and digest

378
00:14:41,458 --> 00:14:44,291
 state more often rather than just often

379
00:14:44,291 --> 00:14:47,250
 being in fight or flight continuously and

380
00:14:47,250 --> 00:14:48,791
 that's what you want to learn to do is

381
00:14:48,791 --> 00:14:52,083
 shift into the rest and digest at

382
00:14:52,083 --> 00:14:53,125
 parasympathetic state

383
00:14:53,125 --> 00:14:55,750
 as often as you can.

384
00:14:56,583 --> 00:14:58,041
 That's perfect thank you for breaking

385
00:14:58,041 --> 00:15:00,791
 that all down now I get to talk to a fair

386
00:15:00,791 --> 00:15:02,750
 number of experts on this podcast and the

387
00:15:02,750 --> 00:15:05,500
 one question I tend to ask them most of

388
00:15:05,500 --> 00:15:07,500
 them actually is why they feel people get

389
00:15:07,500 --> 00:15:12,458
 sick it's well or maybe are unwell it's

390
00:15:12,458 --> 00:15:14,166
 largely a selfish question I'll be honest

391
00:15:14,166 --> 00:15:18,291
 however it does fascinate me because so

392
00:15:18,291 --> 00:15:20,708
 many of these experts and they are

393
00:15:20,708 --> 00:15:24,500
 experts again tend to actually get people

394
00:15:24,500 --> 00:15:27,541
 well you're always sort of hear about how

395
00:15:27,541 --> 00:15:31,833
 so and so whoever has this program or has

396
00:15:31,833 --> 00:15:34,333
 this methodology that really works for a

397
00:15:34,333 --> 00:15:36,958
 lot of people now not all the time of

398
00:15:36,958 --> 00:15:39,166
 course because there is this idea this

399
00:15:39,166 --> 00:15:43,083
 biochemical individuality and but it does

400
00:15:43,083 --> 00:15:45,333
 pose an interesting notion and that being

401
00:15:45,333 --> 00:15:47,916
 that there are many sorts of ways to

402
00:15:47,916 --> 00:15:51,166
 optimal health anyway that will be a

403
00:15:51,166 --> 00:15:53,291
 rabbit hole probably for another podcast

404
00:15:53,291 --> 00:15:55,375
 something we could spend all day

405
00:15:55,375 --> 00:15:59,750
 discussing but in your view I suppose why

406
00:15:59,750 --> 00:16:02,708
 do we get as a society these these

407
00:16:02,708 --> 00:16:05,416
 chronic health conditions I know you sort

408
00:16:05,416 --> 00:16:07,416
 of touched on a bit already but maybe we

409
00:16:07,416 --> 00:16:09,541
 can dive just a bit deeper into that

410
00:16:09,541 --> 00:16:12,541
 it's such an interesting question I don't

411
00:16:12,541 --> 00:16:15,833
 think there's any catholic answer out

412
00:16:15,833 --> 00:16:17,500
 there I think there's lots of suggestions

413
00:16:17,500 --> 00:16:21,625
 and ideas that it could could be and

414
00:16:21,625 --> 00:16:24,458
 there isn't enough research at the moment

415
00:16:24,458 --> 00:16:26,833
 happening in this in this place because

416
00:16:26,833 --> 00:16:29,458
 most research is funded by farmer

417
00:16:29,458 --> 00:16:31,916
 companies and a lot of this is not going

418
00:16:31,916 --> 00:16:34,791
 to be giving towards profit or a quick

419
00:16:34,791 --> 00:16:37,875
 fix pill so I don't think there's any

420
00:16:37,875 --> 00:16:41,208
 hard and fast pure data on it there's an

421
00:16:41,208 --> 00:16:43,875
 element of genetics of which there is

422
00:16:43,875 --> 00:16:45,750
 research going on at the moment but it

423
00:16:45,750 --> 00:16:47,916
 seems that this is probably a smaller

424
00:16:47,916 --> 00:16:51,125
 part to play than people used to think a

425
00:16:51,125 --> 00:16:54,333
 lot of it comes down to the way you were

426
00:16:54,333 --> 00:16:58,000
 raised and your childhood experiences why

427
00:16:58,000 --> 00:16:59,541
 is it that some people are more

428
00:16:59,541 --> 00:17:02,041
 susceptible to stress and why is it that

429
00:17:02,041 --> 00:17:04,375
 others people could have parallel jobs or

430
00:17:04,375 --> 00:17:06,875
 parallel situations happening at work for

431
00:17:06,875 --> 00:17:09,000
 example why is it that some people get

432
00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:11,125
 stressed and some people don't there's

433
00:17:11,125 --> 00:17:12,916
 quite a lot of research that's happened

434
00:17:12,916 --> 00:17:16,708
 that does relate back to how you

435
00:17:17,208 --> 00:17:19,541
 experienced things as a child so if we

436
00:17:19,541 --> 00:17:21,666
 think of ACE which is the adverse

437
00:17:21,666 --> 00:17:24,083
 childhood experiences things that happen

438
00:17:24,083 --> 00:17:26,666
 to you when you were young like neglect

439
00:17:26,666 --> 00:17:30,625
 or abuse a lot of people when they grow

440
00:17:30,625 --> 00:17:32,916
 older they have chronic illnesses they

441
00:17:32,916 --> 00:17:35,000
 have addictions they have challenging

442
00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:39,166
 lives so that's fairly well known to a

443
00:17:39,166 --> 00:17:41,125
 degree especially around some of the

444
00:17:41,125 --> 00:17:43,583
 addictions and behavioral issues maybe

445
00:17:43,583 --> 00:17:45,833
 less so around chronic illnesses although

446
00:17:45,833 --> 00:17:48,750
 it's becoming more well known so that's

447
00:17:48,750 --> 00:17:50,958
 kind of a trauma element of too much

448
00:17:50,958 --> 00:17:53,333
 that's happened to you too soon too much

449
00:17:53,333 --> 00:17:55,291
 that you your nervous system was able to

450
00:17:55,291 --> 00:17:58,166
 help with at a time that's affected how

451
00:17:58,166 --> 00:18:00,625
 your brain has developed that means that

452
00:18:00,625 --> 00:18:04,333
 you are more susceptible to stressful

453
00:18:04,333 --> 00:18:08,166
 events essentially but there's also the

454
00:18:08,166 --> 00:18:10,666
 trauma which is much less talked about

455
00:18:10,666 --> 00:18:14,458
 which is too little too often and that is

456
00:18:14,458 --> 00:18:16,083
 around not having sufficient

457
00:18:16,333 --> 00:18:19,958
 co-regulation when you are a child and

458
00:18:19,958 --> 00:18:22,333
 this can come through no malintent from

459
00:18:22,333 --> 00:18:25,291
 the the parents it's part of the way that

460
00:18:25,291 --> 00:18:26,791
 some of our generations have been brought

461
00:18:26,791 --> 00:18:31,875
 up which is not to I guess give emotional

462
00:18:31,875 --> 00:18:33,833
 support it's the fact that people don't

463
00:18:33,833 --> 00:18:35,500
 really know how to do it some of our

464
00:18:35,500 --> 00:18:37,583
 parents didn't have the tools that they

465
00:18:37,583 --> 00:18:40,000
 needed to be able to give the emotional

466
00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:43,333
 support that the child needed to enable

467
00:18:43,333 --> 00:18:45,833
 their nervous system to become resilient

468
00:18:45,833 --> 00:18:48,041
 because what the nervous system really

469
00:18:48,041 --> 00:18:51,958
 needs in a nutshell is to feel safe it

470
00:18:51,958 --> 00:18:53,958
 needs to feel safe and if it feels safe

471
00:18:53,958 --> 00:18:56,000
 then it will be regulated and it will

472
00:18:56,000 --> 00:18:58,416
 everything will work as it should do but

473
00:18:58,416 --> 00:19:01,500
 if it feels unsafe which could be that

474
00:19:01,583 --> 00:19:03,291
 something bad happened but it could be

475
00:19:03,291 --> 00:19:06,666
 that it just didn't get enough care and

476
00:19:06,666 --> 00:19:10,708
 attention that seems to be a very common

477
00:19:10,708 --> 00:19:14,000
 pattern for people who have chronic

478
00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:16,833
 illnesses there's a huge correlation

479
00:19:16,833 --> 00:19:19,250
 between personality traits and chronic

480
00:19:19,250 --> 00:19:22,875
 illnesses perfectionism highly analytical

481
00:19:22,875 --> 00:19:26,458
 high achievers very very driven what's

482
00:19:26,458 --> 00:19:27,208
 that like ring and any

483
00:19:29,833 --> 00:19:33,708
 and if you if you then think back to when

484
00:19:33,708 --> 00:19:36,000
 you were a child and how these behaviors

485
00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:38,666
 develop of course some of it is

486
00:19:38,666 --> 00:19:40,625
 gymnastics to a degree but most of these

487
00:19:40,625 --> 00:19:43,416
 things are learned behaviors and we learn

488
00:19:43,416 --> 00:19:45,875
 our behaviors from how our parents were

489
00:19:45,875 --> 00:19:48,666
 with us or how other adults around us

490
00:19:48,666 --> 00:19:51,958
 were what our schooling experiences were

491
00:19:51,958 --> 00:19:55,458
 and so we therefore start to drive and

492
00:19:55,458 --> 00:19:57,250
 push ourselves so if we're constantly

493
00:19:57,250 --> 00:20:02,791
 trying to overachieve or push through and

494
00:20:02,791 --> 00:20:05,291
 put that drive we're creating that stress

495
00:20:05,291 --> 00:20:08,375
 ongoing stress in our body which over

496
00:20:08,375 --> 00:20:12,625
 time gradually just builds up and that's

497
00:20:12,625 --> 00:20:17,166
 why often you won't see the repercussions

498
00:20:17,166 --> 00:20:19,791
 of it until much later in life because

499
00:20:19,791 --> 00:20:22,166
 you've had an accumulation of small

500
00:20:22,166 --> 00:20:25,500
 stresses that are personality driven and

501
00:20:25,500 --> 00:20:28,500
 then you've got events that happen and

502
00:20:28,500 --> 00:20:30,791
 they just kind of accumulate and that

503
00:20:30,791 --> 00:20:35,250
 seems to be a lot of reasons as to from

504
00:20:35,250 --> 00:20:37,000
 my experience and from the research we've

505
00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:40,500
 seen is to why certain people get sick

506
00:20:40,500 --> 00:20:43,708
 and why certain people don't get sick

507
00:20:43,875 --> 00:20:45,625
 yeah that's thank you for that that's a

508
00:20:45,625 --> 00:20:48,458
 perfect answer I would probably push back

509
00:20:48,458 --> 00:20:52,583
 on the genetic piece I think I think

510
00:20:52,583 --> 00:20:55,166
 everything is genetics oh I'm almost sure

511
00:20:55,166 --> 00:20:56,833
 everything is genetics at the end of the

512
00:20:56,833 --> 00:21:00,583
 day when somebody has a genetic

513
00:21:00,583 --> 00:21:02,625
 predisposition to a

514
00:21:02,625 --> 00:21:04,500
 certain nervous system stance

515
00:21:05,583 --> 00:21:07,500
 then or not stance what's the correct

516
00:21:07,500 --> 00:21:10,500
 word state there we go then by default

517
00:21:10,500 --> 00:21:14,000
 that is going to upregulate all the

518
00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:15,958
 disease processes that we've that we've

519
00:21:15,958 --> 00:21:16,958
 talked about then we're going to talk

520
00:21:16,958 --> 00:21:20,041
 about I think if somebody is far if

521
00:21:20,041 --> 00:21:22,541
 somebody is more predispositioned to

522
00:21:22,541 --> 00:21:24,625
 creating more of these catecholamines

523
00:21:24,625 --> 00:21:26,541
 these stress hormones that then trickle

524
00:21:26,541 --> 00:21:29,875
 down and affect the immune system and

525
00:21:29,875 --> 00:21:32,208
 then sort of develop these th17 responses

526
00:21:32,208 --> 00:21:34,291
 and th2 responses and all the big words

527
00:21:34,291 --> 00:21:36,500
 nobody cares about then by default that

528
00:21:36,500 --> 00:21:38,875
 is going to result in a certain

529
00:21:38,875 --> 00:21:44,000
 individual if they have a sort of a less

530
00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:46,583
 than ideal quote unquote genetic makeup

531
00:21:46,583 --> 00:21:51,750
 being more susceptible to these sorts of

532
00:21:51,750 --> 00:21:55,583
 issues to begin with I mean you there are

533
00:21:55,583 --> 00:21:57,750
 plenty of sort of anecdotal and case

534
00:21:57,750 --> 00:21:59,000
 studies and reports where

535
00:22:00,083 --> 00:22:04,416
 you have siblings in the same environment

536
00:22:04,416 --> 00:22:06,416
 grow up one goes on to thrive and the

537
00:22:06,416 --> 00:22:08,208
 other one doesn't now if it if there

538
00:22:08,208 --> 00:22:11,291
 isn't if the environment's the same yet

539
00:22:11,291 --> 00:22:12,791
 the outcome is different then there has

540
00:22:12,875 --> 00:22:15,625
 to be something within that individual

541
00:22:15,625 --> 00:22:19,916
 that is contributing to whether or not

542
00:22:19,916 --> 00:22:22,833
 they succeed versus fail putting it very

543
00:22:22,833 --> 00:22:25,458
 black and white and fundamentally I think

544
00:22:25,458 --> 00:22:28,333
 that comes down to genetic differences

545
00:22:28,333 --> 00:22:33,708
 now of course that isn't all of it and we

546
00:22:33,708 --> 00:22:36,791
 discussed off air about this idea of

547
00:22:36,791 --> 00:22:39,083
 terrain and germ theory as well germ

548
00:22:39,083 --> 00:22:41,291
 theory suggests that germs are what we

549
00:22:41,291 --> 00:22:43,291
 need to worry about sorry and we need to

550
00:22:43,291 --> 00:22:45,541
 keep finding ways I suppose just to keep

551
00:22:45,541 --> 00:22:47,208
 on killing them off whereas terrain

552
00:22:47,208 --> 00:22:49,250
 theory sort of posits or argues that the

553
00:22:49,250 --> 00:22:51,000
 idea that if the body is well balanced

554
00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:53,541
 then germs I suppose are a natural part

555
00:22:53,541 --> 00:22:55,250
 of life and the environment will be dealt

556
00:22:55,250 --> 00:22:58,333
 with by the body without it causing

557
00:22:58,333 --> 00:23:02,625
 distress I mean this speaks a lot to some

558
00:23:02,625 --> 00:23:04,041
 of the stuff we've talked about or fair

559
00:23:04,041 --> 00:23:07,250
 about the toxic load on the body do you

560
00:23:07,250 --> 00:23:12,166
 think having a high toxic load is going

561
00:23:12,166 --> 00:23:15,666
 to contribute towards this sort of this

562
00:23:15,666 --> 00:23:16,833
 autonomia in general

563
00:23:16,833 --> 00:23:20,416
 yes I think it's a huge contributory

564
00:23:20,416 --> 00:23:22,166
 factor because the stress that you're

565
00:23:22,166 --> 00:23:24,833
 putting on the body regardless of what

566
00:23:24,833 --> 00:23:27,291
 aspect it is whether it's to do with the

567
00:23:27,291 --> 00:23:28,625
 toxic load it's to do with the

568
00:23:28,625 --> 00:23:30,958
 environment it's to do with your makeup

569
00:23:30,958 --> 00:23:34,250
 all of those things elements are

570
00:23:34,250 --> 00:23:36,000
 definitely going to be contributing

571
00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:39,916
 towards your ability to withstand

572
00:23:40,083 --> 00:23:42,666
 stressful events as as you evolve because

573
00:23:42,666 --> 00:23:45,250
 they impact all the different functions

574
00:23:45,250 --> 00:23:48,208
 of the body you know the liver function

575
00:23:48,208 --> 00:23:52,500
 you bla... go on a bit but they affect

576
00:23:52,500 --> 00:23:54,500
 all the different functions of your body

577
00:23:54,500 --> 00:23:56,666
 so toxic load is yeah I

578
00:23:56,666 --> 00:23:58,083
 think hugely important here

579
00:23:58,083 --> 00:24:01,666
 yeah I think ultimately what this all

580
00:24:01,666 --> 00:24:04,250
 sort of speaks to in my view again when

581
00:24:04,250 --> 00:24:07,166
 you sort of peel away the layers of it is

582
00:24:07,166 --> 00:24:09,291
 mitochondrial dysfunction the cell

583
00:24:09,291 --> 00:24:10,833
 dangerous one something I know we've

584
00:24:10,833 --> 00:24:15,166
 talked about a lot a fair amount and so

585
00:24:15,166 --> 00:24:17,083
 the way I view it all of this sort of

586
00:24:17,083 --> 00:24:18,416
 central nervous system dysfunction

587
00:24:18,500 --> 00:24:21,791
 ultimately drives what is I feel is the

588
00:24:21,791 --> 00:24:25,583
 central sort of unifying theory to what

589
00:24:25,583 --> 00:24:27,666
 disease fundamentally is and that is the

590
00:24:27,666 --> 00:24:29,791
 so-called cell danger response now I've

591
00:24:29,791 --> 00:24:31,625
 hopped on about this before but

592
00:24:31,625 --> 00:24:34,250
 essentially the CDR the cell danger

593
00:24:34,250 --> 00:24:37,125
 response is how our cells react when they

594
00:24:37,125 --> 00:24:41,916
 are threatened and in CDR they will shift

595
00:24:41,916 --> 00:24:45,458
 into a state of defense and that can be

596
00:24:45,458 --> 00:24:47,291
 triggered by any threat whether it's an

597
00:24:47,291 --> 00:24:50,958
 infection a toxin an injury speaking of

598
00:24:50,958 --> 00:24:52,875
 injuries potentially shoulder injury even

599
00:24:52,875 --> 00:24:56,625
 or psychological stress and instead of

600
00:24:56,625 --> 00:24:58,458
 focusing on growth and repair

601
00:24:59,750 --> 00:25:01,750
 the cell then changes its priorities

602
00:25:01,750 --> 00:25:04,583
 essentially working towards survival this

603
00:25:04,583 --> 00:25:06,625
 then affects all the other systems in the

604
00:25:06,625 --> 00:25:09,291
 body especially the immune system as

605
00:25:09,291 --> 00:25:11,416
 there simply just isn't enough energy for

606
00:25:11,416 --> 00:25:14,125
 the the body to function properly I'll

607
00:25:14,125 --> 00:25:15,958
 not get too much into the weeds here but

608
00:25:15,958 --> 00:25:18,208
 I suppose at the heart of the sort of CDR

609
00:25:18,208 --> 00:25:22,000
 model are the are mitochondria normally

610
00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:24,708
 which as we all know are work to act like

611
00:25:24,708 --> 00:25:26,666
 sort of cellular power plants making

612
00:25:26,666 --> 00:25:29,875
 energy in the form of ATP but when they

613
00:25:29,875 --> 00:25:31,916
 enter into this sort of cell danger

614
00:25:31,916 --> 00:25:33,666
 response a cell or response they

615
00:25:33,666 --> 00:25:35,625
 deliberately become less efficient it

616
00:25:35,625 --> 00:25:37,916
 makes complete sense if if the body's

617
00:25:37,916 --> 00:25:39,916
 under a threat under attack they're going

618
00:25:39,916 --> 00:25:42,291
 to down regulate to conserve energy it's

619
00:25:42,291 --> 00:25:44,125
 sort of it's a nice sort of evolutionary

620
00:25:44,125 --> 00:25:45,916
 way of looking at it

621
00:25:47,291 --> 00:25:51,833
 now it's yeah and they cut back on energy

622
00:25:51,833 --> 00:25:54,625
 production essentially what they also do

623
00:25:54,625 --> 00:25:56,458
 is they actually release ATP

624
00:25:56,458 --> 00:25:59,541
 extracellularly so outside of the cell

625
00:25:59,541 --> 00:26:01,750
 it's called strangely enough

626
00:26:01,750 --> 00:26:07,583
 extracellular ATP and this fuel outside

627
00:26:07,583 --> 00:26:09,916
 of the cell is actually then seen by the

628
00:26:09,916 --> 00:26:13,458
 immune system uh as a a danger signal

629
00:26:13,458 --> 00:26:16,458
 essentially um it's why I'm not a fan of

630
00:26:16,458 --> 00:26:18,750
 people just taking NAD supplements

631
00:26:18,750 --> 00:26:21,458
 willy-nilly because the more uh NAD

632
00:26:21,458 --> 00:26:24,000
 supplements you're taking the more ATP

633
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:26,833
 you are producing but potentially if

634
00:26:26,833 --> 00:26:29,416
 you're an inflamed state you are going to

635
00:26:29,416 --> 00:26:33,958
 produce ATP that's then going to leak out

636
00:26:33,958 --> 00:26:37,208
 of the cell or out of the mitochondria

637
00:26:37,208 --> 00:26:40,875
 and create uh all of these issues that's

638
00:26:40,875 --> 00:26:42,458
 getting into electron leak and electron

639
00:26:42,458 --> 00:26:45,833
 electron and proton gradients and I

640
00:26:45,833 --> 00:26:47,208
 should stop there before everybody turns

641
00:26:47,208 --> 00:26:51,625
 off I suppose but yeah anyway just to

642
00:26:51,625 --> 00:26:54,000
 sort of run through the the CDR stages

643
00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:57,750
 quickly you have three of them uh it was

644
00:26:57,750 --> 00:26:59,666
 uh put together by a Dr.

645
00:26:59,875 --> 00:27:02,458
 Robert Navio who's the hero of mine

646
00:27:02,458 --> 00:27:04,958
 obviously and in CDR1 fundamentally what

647
00:27:04,958 --> 00:27:07,458
 happens is that the cell senses a threat

648
00:27:07,458 --> 00:27:10,541
 um mitochondrial mitochondria leak these

649
00:27:10,541 --> 00:27:12,708
 electrons like I said uh talked about

650
00:27:12,708 --> 00:27:15,333
 earlier they start to make more reactive

651
00:27:15,333 --> 00:27:17,083
 oxygen species which then create

652
00:27:17,083 --> 00:27:19,583
 inflammation and oxidase stress terms I'm

653
00:27:19,583 --> 00:27:21,875
 sure we're all familiar with and then

654
00:27:21,875 --> 00:27:23,500
 there's a shift into how the body

655
00:27:23,500 --> 00:27:26,083
 utilizes different types of energy

656
00:27:26,083 --> 00:27:29,000
 sources the mitochondria sort of shift

657
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:31,458
 into this state of glycolysis where

658
00:27:31,666 --> 00:27:34,000
 they're not utilizing fatty acids to

659
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:38,500
 reduce fuel they're using um sugars and

660
00:27:38,500 --> 00:27:42,125
 that's a good and a bad thing but

661
00:27:42,125 --> 00:27:44,166
 fundamentally you are limiting the

662
00:27:44,166 --> 00:27:47,458
 capacity of the mitochondria to produce

663
00:27:47,458 --> 00:27:51,125
 enough energy um now in theory what would

664
00:27:51,125 --> 00:27:54,958
 happen is um once the body has sort of

665
00:27:55,375 --> 00:27:57,583
 seen a threat it's sort of gone into CDR1

666
00:27:57,583 --> 00:27:59,208
 it will then sort of slowly transition

667
00:27:59,208 --> 00:28:01,416
 into CDR2 which is thought to be the

668
00:28:01,416 --> 00:28:04,083
 repair stage and and once the threat is

669
00:28:04,083 --> 00:28:07,000
 controlled I suppose the focus of the of

670
00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:10,708
 the cell excuse me is to shift into sort

671
00:28:10,708 --> 00:28:13,416
 of a rebuilding state um the mitochondria

672
00:28:13,458 --> 00:28:16,250
 slowly start to work again and they start

673
00:28:16,250 --> 00:28:18,041
 to help produce various proteins and

674
00:28:18,041 --> 00:28:20,208
 lipids or fats and what are called

675
00:28:20,208 --> 00:28:22,333
 nucleotides all of which are essentially

676
00:28:22,333 --> 00:28:26,500
 cellular building blocks and um you then

677
00:28:26,500 --> 00:28:29,416
 are able to start slowly rebuilding the

678
00:28:29,416 --> 00:28:31,875
 cell and then finally you have this sort

679
00:28:31,875 --> 00:28:34,500
 of transition into CDR3 which happens

680
00:28:34,500 --> 00:28:37,000
 when the cell I suppose sort of is

681
00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:39,333
 colloquially put it sort of reintegrates

682
00:28:39,333 --> 00:28:43,458
 into the network or the matrix and that

683
00:28:43,458 --> 00:28:45,208
 means sort of your metabolism comes back

684
00:28:45,208 --> 00:28:47,083
 online hormones start to be produced

685
00:28:47,083 --> 00:28:51,875
 properly um and you are able to then

686
00:28:51,875 --> 00:28:53,708
 effectively start utilizing

687
00:28:55,291 --> 00:28:57,291
 the mitochondria as they are supposed to

688
00:28:57,291 --> 00:29:00,875
 work um the challenge comes in when an

689
00:29:00,875 --> 00:29:03,416
 individual gets stuck in the sort of CDR1

690
00:29:03,416 --> 00:29:08,000
 or CDR2 states uh and they just the

691
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:10,791
 individual at question just is not able

692
00:29:10,791 --> 00:29:13,125
 to function optimally because of this

693
00:29:13,125 --> 00:29:16,208
 sort of impaired energy balance this

694
00:29:16,208 --> 00:29:18,750
 these energy dynamics within the cell now

695
00:29:18,750 --> 00:29:21,041
 coming full circle if you buy into the

696
00:29:21,041 --> 00:29:23,166
 sort of mitochondrial theory of disease

697
00:29:23,166 --> 00:29:26,416
 which evidently I do um then you'll agree

698
00:29:26,416 --> 00:29:28,791
 that there are are likely a few triggers

699
00:29:28,791 --> 00:29:31,291
 here um central nervous system

700
00:29:31,291 --> 00:29:34,416
 dysfunction dysautonomia stress in this

701
00:29:34,416 --> 00:29:38,083
 context obviously being a major driver um

702
00:29:38,083 --> 00:29:40,833
 now there's a lot to obviously be to be

703
00:29:40,833 --> 00:29:42,875
 said upstream of that in terms of that

704
00:29:42,875 --> 00:29:44,541
 that limbic system dysfunction that I

705
00:29:44,541 --> 00:29:47,375
 know you're all too familiar with um but

706
00:29:47,375 --> 00:29:49,291
 before we dive into that rubital I

707
00:29:49,291 --> 00:29:51,083
 suppose I'd like to get maybe your

708
00:29:51,083 --> 00:29:54,583
 perspective on this and your thoughts uh

709
00:29:54,583 --> 00:29:57,666
 on whether or not this is ultimately sort

710
00:29:57,666 --> 00:29:59,666
 of mitochondrial dysfunction that is this

711
00:29:59,666 --> 00:30:04,791
 triggered by um well in this case stress

712
00:30:04,791 --> 00:30:08,250
 of some sort to another or if uh yeah

713
00:30:08,250 --> 00:30:11,041
 what do you think of that idea as a whole

714
00:30:11,041 --> 00:30:15,625
 I think if we consider how impactful the

715
00:30:15,625 --> 00:30:17,875
 nervous system is or the autonomic

716
00:30:17,875 --> 00:30:23,625
 nervous system is in terms of in um if we

717
00:30:23,625 --> 00:30:25,541
 think about how influential the nervous

718
00:30:25,541 --> 00:30:27,875
 system is on determining our overall

719
00:30:27,875 --> 00:30:30,833
 health then it makes sense and stands to

720
00:30:30,833 --> 00:30:33,458
 reason that actually it's our environment

721
00:30:33,458 --> 00:30:36,000
 that's influencing our nervous system

722
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:38,750
 that's then creating this dysfunction

723
00:30:38,750 --> 00:30:42,500
 that's happening within the cells so my

724
00:30:42,500 --> 00:30:44,166
 view is that of course there is

725
00:30:44,166 --> 00:30:46,583
 dysfunction happening in the body but if

726
00:30:46,583 --> 00:30:51,000
 we can externally start to regulate our

727
00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:53,750
 nervous system then that will in turn

728
00:30:53,750 --> 00:30:56,500
 start to increase the overall function

729
00:30:56,500 --> 00:30:59,000
 that's happening in the body gradually

730
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:02,666
 which is why I work with the nervous

731
00:31:02,666 --> 00:31:07,083
 system with the limbic system influencing

732
00:31:07,083 --> 00:31:10,541
 how they behave which then in turn will

733
00:31:10,541 --> 00:31:13,583
 then start to influence how the functions

734
00:31:13,583 --> 00:31:17,333
 and cells are working and mitochondria is

735
00:31:17,333 --> 00:31:21,000
 working in the body that is how I

736
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:23,625
 perceive it which is why sometimes when

737
00:31:23,625 --> 00:31:25,875
 especially when after I had covid and I

738
00:31:25,875 --> 00:31:28,541
 was reading all these millions of reports

739
00:31:28,541 --> 00:31:30,333
 getting obsessed into rabbit holes of

740
00:31:30,333 --> 00:31:33,791
 looking for the magic fix to fix all of

741
00:31:33,791 --> 00:31:35,875
 these different things that weren't

742
00:31:35,875 --> 00:31:37,333
 working properly in the body that was

743
00:31:37,333 --> 00:31:39,416
 causing all these issues and why

744
00:31:39,416 --> 00:31:42,125
 generally speaking that doesn't help

745
00:31:42,125 --> 00:31:44,458
 people is because you need to take it

746
00:31:44,458 --> 00:31:46,416
 back up a level and go what's actually

747
00:31:46,416 --> 00:31:49,583
 causing this more broadly if you then

748
00:31:49,666 --> 00:31:51,875
 start to actually work on your nervous

749
00:31:51,875 --> 00:31:56,583
 system and your brain then that will then

750
00:31:56,583 --> 00:31:58,791
 in turn influence all of the different

751
00:31:58,791 --> 00:31:59,458
 functions that are

752
00:31:59,458 --> 00:32:01,166
 happening beneath that.

753
00:32:01,666 --> 00:32:03,916
 Fair enough and then I suppose I've

754
00:32:03,958 --> 00:32:05,541
 mentioned this term and so have you.

755
00:32:06,375 --> 00:32:10,250
 There's this idea of a lot of this being

756
00:32:10,250 --> 00:32:11,958
 controlled by the limbic system.

757
00:32:12,541 --> 00:32:15,083
 Now we sort of we've talked about the

758
00:32:15,083 --> 00:32:16,791
 sympathetic and the parasympathetic and

759
00:32:16,791 --> 00:32:20,250
 the vagus nerve but within the brain

760
00:32:20,250 --> 00:32:22,541
 specifically there's this area called the

761
00:32:22,541 --> 00:32:27,000
 limbic system, the limbic region of the

762
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:29,250
 brain which controls a

763
00:32:29,250 --> 00:32:30,500
 lot of these processes.

764
00:32:30,958 --> 00:32:32,958
 Could you maybe break down what the

765
00:32:32,958 --> 00:32:34,416
 limbic system is and then how

766
00:32:34,416 --> 00:32:37,708
 dysregulation in that specific brain area

767
00:32:37,708 --> 00:32:41,500
 seems to then drive this these issues

768
00:32:41,500 --> 00:32:43,208
 with the amygdala and this stress

769
00:32:43,208 --> 00:32:45,625
 response that just seems to be ultimately

770
00:32:45,625 --> 00:32:47,708
 creating so much of this dysfunction.

771
00:32:49,291 --> 00:32:50,708
 Yes so as you mentioned we've got the

772
00:32:50,708 --> 00:32:52,416
 limbic system there's a couple of core

773
00:32:52,416 --> 00:32:53,833
 components within that.

774
00:32:54,083 --> 00:32:55,916
 We've got the amygdala which is our

775
00:32:55,916 --> 00:32:59,458
 stress alert which then informs a

776
00:32:59,458 --> 00:33:01,833
 hypothalamus like how to also then

777
00:33:01,833 --> 00:33:04,125
 respond which then triggers the hpa axis

778
00:33:04,125 --> 00:33:06,458
 which then releases the stress hormones

779
00:33:06,458 --> 00:33:08,916
 so it's got that kind of layered response

780
00:33:08,916 --> 00:33:11,708
 as to how the limbic system operates in a

781
00:33:11,708 --> 00:33:13,958
 stressful environment but it's getting

782
00:33:13,958 --> 00:33:16,541
 its information from the nervous system

783
00:33:16,541 --> 00:33:19,916
 so that's why when I work with people I

784
00:33:19,916 --> 00:33:22,708
 work with them on how they are feeling

785
00:33:22,791 --> 00:33:25,208
 and functioning in their body in relation

786
00:33:25,208 --> 00:33:27,208
 to how they're breathing, how they're

787
00:33:27,208 --> 00:33:30,500
 thinking, how they are standing, their

788
00:33:30,500 --> 00:33:33,500
 posture, their emotions, all of these

789
00:33:33,500 --> 00:33:37,625
 different aspects are informing the brain

790
00:33:37,833 --> 00:33:40,750
 as to whether there's danger essentially.

791
00:33:41,625 --> 00:33:46,458
 So if our nervous system has symptoms or

792
00:33:46,458 --> 00:33:48,958
 I guess behaviors which are indicating

793
00:33:48,958 --> 00:33:51,416
 that there is danger around like for

794
00:33:51,416 --> 00:33:54,250
 example I could be sitting like this, I

795
00:33:54,250 --> 00:33:56,000
 could be breathing really fast, I could

796
00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:57,125
 be thinking oh my god the world is

797
00:33:57,125 --> 00:33:58,208
 ending, the world is ending, oh my

798
00:33:58,208 --> 00:34:00,833
 goodness all these things I think the

799
00:34:00,833 --> 00:34:02,250
 brain's like oh my goodness there's

800
00:34:02,250 --> 00:34:04,166
 something going wrong here we need to

801
00:34:04,166 --> 00:34:06,791
 switch on this stress, this danger.

802
00:34:07,541 --> 00:34:11,416
 So therefore if you are presenting in a

803
00:34:11,416 --> 00:34:15,333
 way that represents stress or danger the

804
00:34:15,333 --> 00:34:17,375
 brain therefore thinks there's danger and

805
00:34:17,375 --> 00:34:19,916
 therefore it triggers the response and

806
00:34:19,916 --> 00:34:20,875
 therefore your body is

807
00:34:20,875 --> 00:34:21,708
 flooded with stress hormones.

808
00:34:22,625 --> 00:34:25,791
 Now if there is danger and you just see

809
00:34:25,791 --> 00:34:28,458
 you're out to like have a car curtling

810
00:34:28,458 --> 00:34:30,416
 towards you then there would be danger

811
00:34:30,416 --> 00:34:33,000
 and then you would need to have all of

812
00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:35,375
 those mechanisms happening and then it

813
00:34:35,375 --> 00:34:36,625
 would be great to have cortisol and

814
00:34:36,625 --> 00:34:38,791
 adrenaline to like get you out the way

815
00:34:38,791 --> 00:34:42,333
 and all of those things but if when it

816
00:34:42,333 --> 00:34:44,166
 happens with people with chronic stress

817
00:34:44,166 --> 00:34:47,416
 they get themselves in this pattern that

818
00:34:47,416 --> 00:34:49,875
 they don't even know that they're in

819
00:34:49,875 --> 00:34:52,750
 until you actually create an awareness

820
00:34:52,750 --> 00:34:55,583
 around it and I can guarantee that anyone

821
00:34:55,583 --> 00:34:59,125
 who has got chronic symptoms, chronic

822
00:34:59,125 --> 00:35:02,166
 stress, they will be doing some of those

823
00:35:02,250 --> 00:35:04,166
 things probably all of the

824
00:35:04,166 --> 00:35:06,125
 time even without knowing it.

825
00:35:06,416 --> 00:35:08,416
 They'll be sitting like this or they'll

826
00:35:08,416 --> 00:35:10,791
 be hunched like that or their breathing

827
00:35:10,791 --> 00:35:12,416
 will be really shallow from their chest

828
00:35:12,416 --> 00:35:14,333
 or they'll just be thinking negative

829
00:35:14,333 --> 00:35:18,833
 thoughts or just being like thinking in

830
00:35:18,833 --> 00:35:23,166
 an emotional way that's not conducive to

831
00:35:23,166 --> 00:35:26,250
 positivity which is how much our thoughts

832
00:35:26,250 --> 00:35:28,041
 can kind of power and empower like how

833
00:35:28,041 --> 00:35:30,625
 we're thinking and things so that's why

834
00:35:30,625 --> 00:35:33,375
 it's so critical that we work on both the

835
00:35:33,375 --> 00:35:36,041
 brain and the body together because they

836
00:35:36,041 --> 00:35:39,541
 both feed each other and that's my view

837
00:35:39,541 --> 00:35:44,666
 on how they work and how you then can

838
00:35:44,666 --> 00:35:47,583
 start to improve your symptoms is by

839
00:35:47,583 --> 00:35:51,416
 working on how you are responding as a

840
00:35:51,416 --> 00:35:54,041
 person, how you're being and then over

841
00:35:54,041 --> 00:35:57,291
 time your brain will start to switch out

842
00:35:57,291 --> 00:35:58,333
 of thinking that it needs

843
00:35:58,333 --> 00:35:59,791
 to be on alert all the time.

844
00:36:00,083 --> 00:36:01,916
 You'll stop being in fight or flight mode

845
00:36:01,916 --> 00:36:03,916
 all the time, you'll just start to

846
00:36:03,916 --> 00:36:07,458
 gradually relax and as your nervous

847
00:36:07,458 --> 00:36:11,583
 system just relaxes as you relax over

848
00:36:11,583 --> 00:36:15,833
 time suddenly your symptoms disappear and

849
00:36:15,833 --> 00:36:18,291
 you'll notice most people notice that

850
00:36:18,291 --> 00:36:20,625
 their symptoms are worse when they're

851
00:36:20,625 --> 00:36:23,125
 stressed and then people maybe go on

852
00:36:23,125 --> 00:36:26,666
 holiday for a week or they are off

853
00:36:26,666 --> 00:36:28,666
 selling themselves somewhere where they

854
00:36:28,666 --> 00:36:29,958
 don't have to think about what they're

855
00:36:29,958 --> 00:36:31,750
 doing oh suddenly they feel so much

856
00:36:31,791 --> 00:36:34,541
 better and then they go back into the

857
00:36:34,541 --> 00:36:36,250
 environment that made them sick in the

858
00:36:36,250 --> 00:36:38,000
 first place and suddenly the symptoms

859
00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:40,750
 have come on and if that isn't a really

860
00:36:40,750 --> 00:36:42,916
 strong indicator that your environment

861
00:36:43,041 --> 00:36:46,625
 and how you are being is influencing your

862
00:36:46,625 --> 00:36:49,750
 health and your symptoms then you know

863
00:36:49,750 --> 00:36:54,208
 it's it's just there it's it's it's clear

864
00:36:54,208 --> 00:36:57,500
 clear to see and everyone who I speak to

865
00:36:57,500 --> 00:37:00,083
 once they actually create the awareness

866
00:37:00,083 --> 00:37:02,625
 they start to notice it it's just that

867
00:37:02,625 --> 00:37:04,583
 when people have been sick for a long

868
00:37:04,583 --> 00:37:07,000
 time they start to focus in on their

869
00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:09,333
 symptoms and they almost become like

870
00:37:09,333 --> 00:37:12,250
 buried and embroiled in like the misery

871
00:37:12,250 --> 00:37:16,291
 of it and counting what symptom is coming

872
00:37:16,291 --> 00:37:18,541
 next and oh I can feel this and I can

873
00:37:18,541 --> 00:37:20,166
 feel this and what's this oh my god

874
00:37:20,166 --> 00:37:22,083
 what's going on so there's this worry

875
00:37:22,083 --> 00:37:24,916
 there's this fear there's this resentment

876
00:37:24,916 --> 00:37:30,375
 and self-fulfilling prophecy of that is

877
00:37:30,375 --> 00:37:33,291
 just feeding your brain with there's

878
00:37:33,291 --> 00:37:35,958
 danger there's fear let's keep let's keep

879
00:37:35,958 --> 00:37:37,791
 everyone in alert let's keep you in fight

880
00:37:37,791 --> 00:37:40,958
 or flight so it's just this ongoing cycle

881
00:37:40,958 --> 00:37:43,666
 that people don't know that they're in

882
00:37:43,666 --> 00:37:47,583
 but once you do and you're open to it and

883
00:37:47,583 --> 00:37:49,666
 not just expecting some magical pill from

884
00:37:49,666 --> 00:37:52,375
 somewhere if you're open to it suddenly

885
00:37:52,375 --> 00:37:55,375
 people are like oh my goodness and that's

886
00:37:55,375 --> 00:37:57,333
 when you can start to impact change on

887
00:37:57,333 --> 00:38:01,000
 yourself by actually then taking action

888
00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:02,250
 according to how you are

889
00:38:02,250 --> 00:38:03,583
 operating as an individual

890
00:38:03,583 --> 00:38:05,750
 so fundamentally what you're saying is

891
00:38:05,750 --> 00:38:07,041
 win the lotto and go and

892
00:38:07,041 --> 00:38:08,208
 live on a spanish island

893
00:38:08,208 --> 00:38:13,666
 pretty much yeah yeah although you'd have

894
00:38:13,666 --> 00:38:15,250
 to be careful you don't take your brain

895
00:38:15,250 --> 00:38:17,250
 your misery brain with you you'd have to

896
00:38:17,250 --> 00:38:19,291
 actually embrace it because what some

897
00:38:19,291 --> 00:38:20,875
 people could do when they go and live on

898
00:38:20,875 --> 00:38:22,833
 their spanish island is still start

899
00:38:22,833 --> 00:38:25,125
 complaining that it's too hot that it's

900
00:38:25,125 --> 00:38:26,666
 it's uh i don't know

901
00:38:26,666 --> 00:38:29,500
 at that point i'd to be completely blunt

902
00:38:29,500 --> 00:38:30,291
 i might just say you

903
00:38:30,291 --> 00:38:34,625
 deserve to be sick um yeah

904
00:38:34,625 --> 00:38:37,250
 you know some people will find that you

905
00:38:37,250 --> 00:38:39,333
 know the glass half full or the rain

906
00:38:39,333 --> 00:38:41,416
 perspective some people will find

907
00:38:41,416 --> 00:38:43,791
 problems with everything and they're not

908
00:38:43,791 --> 00:38:45,250
 willing to like make a change they could

909
00:38:45,250 --> 00:38:47,916
 go to the nicest place but they're still

910
00:38:47,916 --> 00:38:50,291
 like you know looking for the worst case

911
00:38:50,291 --> 00:38:51,500
 scenario everywhere and

912
00:38:51,500 --> 00:38:52,916
 they're the people who will

913
00:38:52,916 --> 00:38:55,208
 struggle the most yeah no i do think

914
00:38:55,208 --> 00:38:57,791
 carol deweck's book their uh mindset the

915
00:38:57,791 --> 00:38:59,583
 sort of the growth versus fixed mindset

916
00:38:59,583 --> 00:39:03,166
 is probably almost required reading when

917
00:39:03,166 --> 00:39:04,500
 trying to work through something like

918
00:39:04,500 --> 00:39:06,041
 this you sort of got to flip that

919
00:39:06,041 --> 00:39:09,250
 perspective on what's real what isn't um

920
00:39:09,250 --> 00:39:12,666
 and that you you fundamentally can heal

921
00:39:12,666 --> 00:39:15,291
 um even if it is difficult i mean this

922
00:39:15,291 --> 00:39:18,500
 obviously isn't a walk in the park but i

923
00:39:18,500 --> 00:39:21,416
 think well as you've just alluded to um

924
00:39:21,416 --> 00:39:24,125
 if you sort of maintain that mindset

925
00:39:24,125 --> 00:39:27,666
 around everything constant being terrible

926
00:39:27,666 --> 00:39:29,833
 all the time it's just going to sort of

927
00:39:29,833 --> 00:39:32,208
 reinforce that sort of negative feedback

928
00:39:32,208 --> 00:39:34,791
 loop and you're not going to get out of

929
00:39:34,791 --> 00:39:38,500
 it and i personally and sort of

930
00:39:38,500 --> 00:39:40,166
 observationally i think that's the

931
00:39:40,166 --> 00:39:42,666
 hardest part i think trying to sort of

932
00:39:43,041 --> 00:39:45,166
 convince yourself that it is going to be

933
00:39:45,166 --> 00:39:49,375
 okay and that you can heal and then be

934
00:39:49,375 --> 00:39:53,166
 consistent in that thought process that's

935
00:39:53,166 --> 00:39:55,708
 the trick i think personally um maybe

936
00:39:55,708 --> 00:39:57,291
 it's just because i'm soft in the head i

937
00:39:57,291 --> 00:40:00,833
 don't know but trying to maintain that um

938
00:40:00,833 --> 00:40:05,250
 uh yeah that's that sort of that that

939
00:40:05,250 --> 00:40:07,583
 that thought process and are constantly

940
00:40:07,583 --> 00:40:08,458
 constantly even when you are

941
00:40:08,458 --> 00:40:09,958
 struggling is really tricky

942
00:40:09,958 --> 00:40:13,583
 it is the most difficult thing and that's

943
00:40:13,583 --> 00:40:16,625
 why healing takes a long time and why

944
00:40:16,625 --> 00:40:19,708
 some people don't get better and because

945
00:40:19,708 --> 00:40:21,208
 it's not something that happens just

946
00:40:21,208 --> 00:40:22,875
 overnight you've got to have such

947
00:40:22,875 --> 00:40:25,083
 perseverance to keep on going when you're

948
00:40:25,083 --> 00:40:27,416
 not seeing those results immediately and

949
00:40:27,416 --> 00:40:29,125
 it is just the small things that you keep

950
00:40:29,125 --> 00:40:31,833
 on doing that will eventually make that

951
00:40:31,833 --> 00:40:33,416
 change and the other reason it's so

952
00:40:33,458 --> 00:40:36,333
 difficult is because you are essentially

953
00:40:36,333 --> 00:40:38,750
 having to make changes within your

954
00:40:38,750 --> 00:40:41,041
 personality potentially your way of doing

955
00:40:41,041 --> 00:40:42,541
 things the way you've been doing

956
00:40:42,541 --> 00:40:44,833
 something for decades that's difficult

957
00:40:45,208 --> 00:40:47,666
 and not everybody is able or willing to

958
00:40:47,666 --> 00:40:50,500
 do it but if you really want to get

959
00:40:50,500 --> 00:40:52,750
 better and just think well what got me

960
00:40:52,750 --> 00:40:55,750
 here is not hopeful i'm going to have to

961
00:40:55,750 --> 00:40:58,500
 make a change if i actually want to get

962
00:40:58,583 --> 00:41:00,333
 better and once you start becoming

963
00:41:00,333 --> 00:41:02,791
 observational about your thoughts

964
00:41:02,791 --> 00:41:06,291
 patterns behaviors and what's driving it

965
00:41:06,291 --> 00:41:08,791
 and why you're like that suddenly you can

966
00:41:08,791 --> 00:41:11,875
 be like okay maybe that's not as helpful

967
00:41:11,875 --> 00:41:14,083
 as i thought it was but it's totally what

968
00:41:14,083 --> 00:41:16,333
 you said about the mindset of growth

969
00:41:16,333 --> 00:41:18,166
 versus fixed if you've got a fixed

970
00:41:18,166 --> 00:41:19,666
 mindset like i speak to people all the

971
00:41:19,666 --> 00:41:21,708
 time who've got this fixed mindset who

972
00:41:21,708 --> 00:41:24,500
 won't get better because they're still

973
00:41:24,500 --> 00:41:26,416
 just buried buried over there somewhere

974
00:41:26,416 --> 00:41:28,125
 and they're not changing and they're not

975
00:41:28,125 --> 00:41:31,250
 open to it but there's the people who are

976
00:41:31,250 --> 00:41:35,041
 ready willing trying and they will get

977
00:41:35,041 --> 00:41:36,708
 better if they can just keep it on

978
00:41:36,708 --> 00:41:38,625
 consistent but it's about having it's

979
00:41:38,625 --> 00:41:39,833
 helpful to have like accountability

980
00:41:39,833 --> 00:41:41,500
 partners or people you're doing it with

981
00:41:41,500 --> 00:41:44,250
 to keep you motivated because it is it's

982
00:41:44,250 --> 00:41:46,291
 difficult and it takes a long time but

983
00:41:46,291 --> 00:41:49,791
 you can get there with perseverance

984
00:41:49,791 --> 00:41:51,916
 yeah and that's something i know we'll be

985
00:41:51,916 --> 00:41:53,166
 talking about later when we sort of touch

986
00:41:53,166 --> 00:41:56,083
 on your program um what do you think

987
00:41:56,083 --> 00:41:59,291
 about vagus vagal vagal nerve stimulators

988
00:41:59,291 --> 00:42:02,958
 um these sort of contraptions that um

989
00:42:02,958 --> 00:42:06,500
 sort of almost force and maybe that is

990
00:42:06,500 --> 00:42:10,166
 the dichotomy there um the body into uh

991
00:42:10,166 --> 00:42:12,000
 is that the right word things so into a

992
00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:14,083
 sort of parasympathetic state do you do

993
00:42:14,083 --> 00:42:16,250
 you think that they are effective have

994
00:42:16,250 --> 00:42:20,666
 you seen any um any case reports among

995
00:42:20,666 --> 00:42:22,416
 your community to show that they are

996
00:42:22,416 --> 00:42:24,000
 helpful or are they

997
00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:26,208
 kind of been hit and miss i

998
00:42:26,208 --> 00:42:27,625
 think that would be the term i would use

999
00:42:27,625 --> 00:42:29,791
 hit and miss i think they help some

1000
00:42:29,791 --> 00:42:32,083
 people but they don't help other people i

1001
00:42:32,083 --> 00:42:33,583
 tried two of them and they did not help

1002
00:42:33,583 --> 00:42:37,208
 me um that could just be me but i do know

1003
00:42:37,208 --> 00:42:38,791
 some people who've tried them and they

1004
00:42:38,791 --> 00:42:41,125
 found it very relaxing and the more that

1005
00:42:41,125 --> 00:42:43,291
 you can be relaxed the better that's

1006
00:42:43,291 --> 00:42:46,375
 going to be for your overall health i

1007
00:42:46,375 --> 00:42:48,000
 know some people have been overstimulated

1008
00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:49,750
 by them and it's actually caused their

1009
00:42:49,750 --> 00:42:52,291
 systems to crash um if you're very

1010
00:42:52,291 --> 00:42:55,583
 sensitive so to be honest i'm totally

1011
00:42:55,583 --> 00:42:59,375
 almost indifferent to them if they are

1012
00:42:59,375 --> 00:43:02,125
 helpful to you give it a go but if

1013
00:43:02,125 --> 00:43:04,208
 they're not then don't it's that kind of

1014
00:43:04,208 --> 00:43:08,000
 one size does not fit all approach again

1015
00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:10,125
 i mean it again it's that kind of magic

1016
00:43:10,125 --> 00:43:11,958
 fix isn't that a quick fix if i just buy

1017
00:43:11,958 --> 00:43:13,708
 this contraption i'll magically get

1018
00:43:13,708 --> 00:43:15,833
 better and the other thing is that

1019
00:43:15,833 --> 00:43:18,958
 although it may help with switching you

1020
00:43:18,958 --> 00:43:22,208
 into your parasympathetic which is always

1021
00:43:22,208 --> 00:43:24,708
 going to be helpful it's not it's only

1022
00:43:24,708 --> 00:43:26,708
 one component of it it's not going to

1023
00:43:26,708 --> 00:43:29,041
 change your patterns and behaviors so it

1024
00:43:29,041 --> 00:43:31,500
 could well be seen as more of a temporary

1025
00:43:31,500 --> 00:43:34,791
 fix who knows but you need to also be

1026
00:43:34,791 --> 00:43:36,916
 looking at the bigger picture it feels

1027
00:43:36,916 --> 00:43:38,833
 like even if it does work for you it's

1028
00:43:38,833 --> 00:43:41,916
 still one component of multiple

1029
00:43:41,916 --> 00:43:43,083
 components in terms

1030
00:43:43,083 --> 00:43:44,333
 of fully getting better

1031
00:43:44,333 --> 00:43:48,458
 yeah i like to view them um as sort of

1032
00:43:48,458 --> 00:43:52,375
 aids so i think they can be helpful in uh

1033
00:43:52,375 --> 00:43:57,500
 in the same way that yeah maybe a sleep

1034
00:43:57,500 --> 00:43:59,458
 aid is effectively helping somebody to

1035
00:43:59,458 --> 00:44:00,625
 sleep that doesn't mean that you should

1036
00:44:00,625 --> 00:44:02,291
 just take a sleeping pill to get to sleep

1037
00:44:02,291 --> 00:44:04,708
 every night but if you are struggling to

1038
00:44:04,708 --> 00:44:07,625
 sleep and you have poor sleep habits you

1039
00:44:07,625 --> 00:44:10,916
 can take the sleeping pill to support the

1040
00:44:10,916 --> 00:44:12,916
 sleep while you are improving the habits

1041
00:44:12,916 --> 00:44:14,541
 and i think the same thing is true of

1042
00:44:14,541 --> 00:44:17,000
 these vagal nerve stimulators i think

1043
00:44:17,000 --> 00:44:18,625
 that they can get the body into a

1044
00:44:18,625 --> 00:44:21,000
 parasympathetic state which then helps

1045
00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:23,541
 the individual maybe hopefully feel a

1046
00:44:23,541 --> 00:44:26,375
 little better and in that during that

1047
00:44:26,375 --> 00:44:28,458
 window of opportunity i think they it

1048
00:44:28,458 --> 00:44:31,833
 provides somebody with the ability to

1049
00:44:31,833 --> 00:44:35,500
 then sort of uh reinforce the the

1050
00:44:35,500 --> 00:44:38,500
 baseline behaviors that need to be there

1051
00:44:38,500 --> 00:44:41,791
 in order to to sort of maintain it with a

1052
00:44:41,791 --> 00:44:43,791
 without the device and then also to sort

1053
00:44:43,791 --> 00:44:46,500
 of heal independently of it um

1054
00:44:46,500 --> 00:44:48,500
 okay that's a good analogy yeah

1055
00:44:48,500 --> 00:44:51,083
 so yeah that's the way i'd like to view

1056
00:44:51,083 --> 00:44:54,250
 them anyway um uh hey so i'd like to

1057
00:44:54,250 --> 00:44:56,166
 close up this section of the convo but

1058
00:44:56,166 --> 00:44:57,916
 before we get there what do you think

1059
00:44:57,916 --> 00:45:00,166
 about testing again something we've

1060
00:45:00,166 --> 00:45:03,416
 talked or fair about a fair amount um now

1061
00:45:03,416 --> 00:45:05,250
 in the functional medicine space it's

1062
00:45:05,250 --> 00:45:08,291
 kind of blown up and wherever you go

1063
00:45:08,291 --> 00:45:10,625
 somebody is testing something whether

1064
00:45:10,625 --> 00:45:14,458
 it's the gut your hormone levels heavy

1065
00:45:14,458 --> 00:45:17,666
 metals whatever and and truthfully i

1066
00:45:17,666 --> 00:45:20,083
 think it can be useful um in in the right

1067
00:45:20,083 --> 00:45:24,000
 context when the order of operations is

1068
00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:27,458
 maybe looked at a bit more closely um but

1069
00:45:27,458 --> 00:45:30,541
 i do think that just testing for the sake

1070
00:45:30,541 --> 00:45:35,500
 of testing is oftentimes not helpful um

1071
00:45:36,875 --> 00:45:38,791
 i don't think i'm going to get any

1072
00:45:38,791 --> 00:45:40,833
 endorsement from genova diagnostics for

1073
00:45:40,833 --> 00:45:43,291
 that statement however um what do you

1074
00:45:43,291 --> 00:45:45,166
 think about testing especially in this

1075
00:45:45,166 --> 00:45:47,500
 sort of functional medicine space and for

1076
00:45:47,500 --> 00:45:49,000
 people who are going through these

1077
00:45:49,000 --> 00:45:51,666
 complex health issues do you think it's

1078
00:45:51,666 --> 00:45:53,916
 effective or not ready

1079
00:45:53,916 --> 00:45:59,125
 yes and no sometimes it will just provide

1080
00:45:59,125 --> 00:46:02,041
 you with a lot of information and which

1081
00:46:02,041 --> 00:46:05,041
 is overwhelming the question is does the

1082
00:46:05,041 --> 00:46:07,125
 practitioner who you're working with know

1083
00:46:07,125 --> 00:46:10,041
 how to resolve those issues if for

1084
00:46:10,041 --> 00:46:11,750
 example there are heavy metals in your

1085
00:46:11,750 --> 00:46:13,791
 body and there's a way to dispel them

1086
00:46:13,791 --> 00:46:16,500
 then detoxification for example that's

1087
00:46:16,500 --> 00:46:17,666
 probably going to be helpful for somebody

1088
00:46:18,416 --> 00:46:20,250
 but a lot of the time you get all these

1089
00:46:20,250 --> 00:46:23,333
 results there's really not a an obvious

1090
00:46:23,333 --> 00:46:25,708
 answer for them to be quite frank if we

1091
00:46:25,708 --> 00:46:27,083
 go back to again the functions of the

1092
00:46:27,083 --> 00:46:29,291
 body we talk about the mitochondria it

1093
00:46:29,291 --> 00:46:31,208
 will come back down to your nervous

1094
00:46:31,208 --> 00:46:33,916
 system and your brain so the reason that

1095
00:46:33,916 --> 00:46:35,583
 a lot of these tests might show that

1096
00:46:35,583 --> 00:46:37,375
 you've got malfunctions going on is

1097
00:46:37,375 --> 00:46:39,208
 because of that so if you work on the

1098
00:46:39,208 --> 00:46:41,291
 bigger picture you'll find that these

1099
00:46:41,291 --> 00:46:44,916
 functions gradually start to to improve i

1100
00:46:44,916 --> 00:46:46,541
 went down the functional medicine medical

1101
00:46:46,541 --> 00:46:49,750
 route um when i was sick with covid i was

1102
00:46:49,750 --> 00:46:51,333
 put on all these different supplements

1103
00:46:51,333 --> 00:46:52,791
 and i was you know given all these

1104
00:46:52,791 --> 00:46:54,583
 different tests sebo all these different

1105
00:46:54,625 --> 00:46:57,791
 things but essentially i'm not sure that

1106
00:46:57,791 --> 00:47:01,208
 it got me anywhere because essentially

1107
00:47:01,208 --> 00:47:03,208
 what i needed to do was learn about the

1108
00:47:03,208 --> 00:47:05,583
 nervous system because that was the the

1109
00:47:05,583 --> 00:47:09,958
 crux of it so you can spend thousands on

1110
00:47:09,958 --> 00:47:12,000
 different tests i think it depends what

1111
00:47:12,000 --> 00:47:13,541
 test you're getting who you're working

1112
00:47:13,541 --> 00:47:17,583
 with and can they help you to do that i

1113
00:47:17,583 --> 00:47:19,250
 mean i know you mentioned specifically

1114
00:47:19,250 --> 00:47:22,458
 functional functional medicine but for me

1115
00:47:22,458 --> 00:47:25,583
 if we go to the our GP and not the

1116
00:47:25,583 --> 00:47:28,416
 standardized testing that's done that's

1117
00:47:28,416 --> 00:47:31,125
 where i think people can fall into a huge

1118
00:47:31,125 --> 00:47:35,583
 well of going nowhere because doctors

1119
00:47:35,583 --> 00:47:37,500
 will send you for all of these different

1120
00:47:37,500 --> 00:47:39,375
 tests because they don't really have

1121
00:47:39,375 --> 00:47:42,166
 anything else to do and then they'll just

1122
00:47:42,166 --> 00:47:44,250
 generally come back that you're totally

1123
00:47:44,250 --> 00:47:47,875
 fine and so then the patient is then just

1124
00:47:47,875 --> 00:47:51,500
 left with not well they had hope and now

1125
00:47:51,500 --> 00:47:53,541
 they've got no hope so then they'll be

1126
00:47:53,541 --> 00:47:56,125
 sent for more tests and more scans and

1127
00:47:56,125 --> 00:47:58,000
 people can just get in this cycle of

1128
00:47:58,000 --> 00:47:59,583
 wanting more and more and more tests

1129
00:47:59,583 --> 00:48:01,583
 because they're like but what if it fine

1130
00:48:01,583 --> 00:48:03,208
 what if i find this and what if it shows

1131
00:48:03,208 --> 00:48:05,166
 this you know looking for that magical

1132
00:48:05,166 --> 00:48:07,041
 little cure again that magical little

1133
00:48:07,041 --> 00:48:09,125
 thing that will suddenly explain

1134
00:48:09,125 --> 00:48:12,583
 everything so i think that whichever

1135
00:48:12,583 --> 00:48:14,916
 route you're going down with testing you

1136
00:48:14,916 --> 00:48:16,250
 just have to be really careful that you

1137
00:48:16,250 --> 00:48:19,625
 just don't go down a rabbit hole when

1138
00:48:19,625 --> 00:48:22,583
 there's no solution because unless

1139
00:48:22,583 --> 00:48:24,875
 there's a solution for the

1140
00:48:24,875 --> 00:48:26,166
 test result that you're getting

1141
00:48:27,666 --> 00:48:29,541
 it's not really adding a lot of value and

1142
00:48:29,541 --> 00:48:31,666
 it also can just create more worry and

1143
00:48:31,666 --> 00:48:33,625
 keep you more stuck and keep you in fear

1144
00:48:33,625 --> 00:48:35,541
 like it's just not particularly helpful

1145
00:48:35,541 --> 00:48:39,166
 yeah uh i might push back on that

1146
00:48:39,166 --> 00:48:42,000
 slightly i i think testing it can be

1147
00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:44,958
 effective uh taking everything to account

1148
00:48:44,958 --> 00:48:47,833
 you said working with a practitioner who

1149
00:48:47,833 --> 00:48:50,250
 has an idea of what they're doing i i

1150
00:48:50,250 --> 00:48:51,833
 think if you just go to your gp

1151
00:48:51,833 --> 00:48:53,583
 especially when it's on the nhs for

1152
00:48:53,583 --> 00:48:56,250
 example um not to sort of throw them

1153
00:48:56,250 --> 00:48:59,125
 under the bus but they sort of work off

1154
00:48:59,125 --> 00:49:02,500
 this sort of of model uh that's that's

1155
00:49:02,500 --> 00:49:05,416
 given to them so they work off guidance

1156
00:49:05,416 --> 00:49:10,041
 and if somebody uh presents with a

1157
00:49:10,041 --> 00:49:11,958
 certain set of symptoms they are then

1158
00:49:11,958 --> 00:49:13,916
 told which tests that they can run for

1159
00:49:13,916 --> 00:49:16,708
 that individual um a classic example

1160
00:49:16,708 --> 00:49:19,583
 being a thyroid test if you're lucky

1161
00:49:19,583 --> 00:49:23,708
 you'll get a tsh and a t4 um for most

1162
00:49:23,708 --> 00:49:27,541
 people that's not enough um you need a

1163
00:49:27,541 --> 00:49:32,416
 tsh a total t4 total t3 etc you and then

1164
00:49:32,416 --> 00:49:34,791
 and even then that just shows that

1165
00:49:34,791 --> 00:49:37,416
 there's a problem with thyroid with

1166
00:49:37,416 --> 00:49:39,666
 thyroid physiology with thyroid um

1167
00:49:39,666 --> 00:49:42,833
 function it doesn't highlight why the

1168
00:49:42,833 --> 00:49:46,666
 thyroid is wrong so that indicates to me

1169
00:49:46,666 --> 00:49:49,333
 well that suggests to me that it's it's

1170
00:49:49,333 --> 00:49:51,125
 not the testing that's the problem it's

1171
00:49:51,125 --> 00:49:52,750
 the sort of the whole sort of system

1172
00:49:52,750 --> 00:49:55,000
 around the testing that's at fault and

1173
00:49:55,000 --> 00:49:57,208
 then you go down the route calls rabbit

1174
00:49:57,208 --> 00:49:59,166
 hole um which is fundamentally what

1175
00:49:59,166 --> 00:50:00,833
 functional medicine is and is supposed to

1176
00:50:00,833 --> 00:50:03,416
 be about and that should work the problem

1177
00:50:03,416 --> 00:50:06,458
 there being in my opinion is that

1178
00:50:06,458 --> 00:50:09,458
 functional medicine isn't necessarily yet

1179
00:50:09,458 --> 00:50:14,250
 standardized so instead of having an idea

1180
00:50:14,250 --> 00:50:17,208
 of what should be tested and when um

1181
00:50:17,208 --> 00:50:20,208
 every practitioner has their own sort of

1182
00:50:20,208 --> 00:50:21,583
 flavor of functional medicine and

1183
00:50:21,583 --> 00:50:24,791
 consequently you will go to somebody for

1184
00:50:24,791 --> 00:50:28,166
 potentially for whatever let's and most

1185
00:50:28,166 --> 00:50:29,875
 people end up with a functional medicine

1186
00:50:29,875 --> 00:50:32,791
 physician 90 of the time because there's

1187
00:50:32,791 --> 00:50:36,833
 some sort of overlying fatigue um so

1188
00:50:36,833 --> 00:50:38,416
 consequently you will go to a

1189
00:50:38,416 --> 00:50:40,791
 practitioner and they will they'll maybe

1190
00:50:40,791 --> 00:50:43,375
 they'll test the gut or heavy metals or

1191
00:50:43,375 --> 00:50:48,291
 hormones um and it's very very tricky to

1192
00:50:48,291 --> 00:50:50,000
 then sort of start putting this together

1193
00:50:50,000 --> 00:50:52,750
 without spending a huge amount of money

1194
00:50:52,750 --> 00:50:56,291
 and then being able to actually identify

1195
00:50:56,291 --> 00:51:01,166
 which one of these many tests is

1196
00:51:01,166 --> 00:51:03,916
 fundamentally highlighting the actual

1197
00:51:03,916 --> 00:51:07,500
 problem because you have a gut issue you

1198
00:51:07,500 --> 00:51:11,250
 have heavy metals issue uh but for most

1199
00:51:11,250 --> 00:51:13,708
 people a gut issue could be the result of

1200
00:51:13,708 --> 00:51:15,416
 the heavy metals because something like a

1201
00:51:15,416 --> 00:51:18,250
 candida infection can feed off heavy

1202
00:51:18,250 --> 00:51:20,916
 metals or consequently if you have high

1203
00:51:20,916 --> 00:51:22,916
 iron you can also have a candida

1204
00:51:22,916 --> 00:51:25,000
 overgrowth because candida feeds off

1205
00:51:25,000 --> 00:51:29,166
 excess iron so is that now a gut issue is

1206
00:51:29,166 --> 00:51:31,208
 that an issue with iron metabolism is

1207
00:51:31,208 --> 00:51:33,041
 that an issue with not enough copper okay

1208
00:51:33,041 --> 00:51:36,458
 so let's run i'm going on a rant here a

1209
00:51:36,458 --> 00:51:38,708
 metabolomics profile to sort of look at

1210
00:51:38,708 --> 00:51:42,625
 all our nutrients um but then following

1211
00:51:42,625 --> 00:51:44,375
 on from that oh wait a minute we've got

1212
00:51:44,375 --> 00:51:47,958
 issues with b9 and b2 so it has to be a

1213
00:51:47,958 --> 00:51:49,833
 genetic issue which probably is but

1214
00:51:49,833 --> 00:51:53,166
 that's another kettle of fish so i think

1215
00:51:53,166 --> 00:51:57,458
 testing is is great and i think

1216
00:51:57,458 --> 00:52:00,083
 fundamentally that it that it works but

1217
00:52:00,083 --> 00:52:01,541
 you have to have a very savvy

1218
00:52:01,541 --> 00:52:03,500
 practitioner and i think in this whole

1219
00:52:03,500 --> 00:52:07,750
 field we need more standardization which

1220
00:52:07,750 --> 00:52:11,333
 is why i'm personally sort of a proponent

1221
00:52:11,333 --> 00:52:13,375
 of this sort of terrain theory as a

1222
00:52:13,375 --> 00:52:15,791
 starting point and the nervous system

1223
00:52:15,791 --> 00:52:17,916
 regulation work that you do as a starting

1224
00:52:17,916 --> 00:52:20,791
 point because it clears the baseline by

1225
00:52:20,791 --> 00:52:23,291
 default and when you have this when you

1226
00:52:23,291 --> 00:52:26,458
 have a body that is as free from toxins

1227
00:52:26,458 --> 00:52:29,250
 and is free from stress and is as

1228
00:52:29,250 --> 00:52:32,416
 nourished as it can be then what you can

1229
00:52:32,416 --> 00:52:34,166
 do is you can start layering testing to

1230
00:52:34,166 --> 00:52:36,416
 potentially find out what's still missing

1231
00:52:36,416 --> 00:52:39,125
 but sort of starting with this well let's

1232
00:52:39,125 --> 00:52:40,500
 just test everything let's throw the

1233
00:52:40,500 --> 00:52:42,500
 kitchen sink at it and then start sort of

1234
00:52:42,500 --> 00:52:45,375
 just pulling strings hoping that one of

1235
00:52:45,375 --> 00:52:50,333
 them will uh help an individual feel

1236
00:52:50,333 --> 00:52:52,625
 better help them sort of get symptom

1237
00:52:52,625 --> 00:52:57,208
 relief i think that is it's just there's

1238
00:52:57,208 --> 00:52:59,916
 no reason rhyme or logic to it and i

1239
00:52:59,916 --> 00:53:02,625
 think that's where people really do get

1240
00:53:02,625 --> 00:53:05,333
 uh stuck and caught up and then they sort

1241
00:53:05,333 --> 00:53:07,458
 of feed into this sort of cycle of oh the

1242
00:53:07,458 --> 00:53:12,458
 test says ergo i am and and anyway um

1243
00:53:12,458 --> 00:53:15,875
 that what you've explained is why i don't

1244
00:53:15,875 --> 00:53:17,666
 always advocate going and going down the

1245
00:53:17,666 --> 00:53:19,083
 testing route for exactly all those

1246
00:53:19,083 --> 00:53:21,833
 reasons like if you have the an amazing

1247
00:53:21,833 --> 00:53:23,500
 practitioner and you've got loads of

1248
00:53:23,500 --> 00:53:26,041
 money and you can run all the tests you

1249
00:53:26,041 --> 00:53:28,666
 need and you kind of know how to resolve

1250
00:53:28,666 --> 00:53:30,958
 from those different tasks then awesome

1251
00:53:30,958 --> 00:53:33,375
 but that's such a small like percentage

1252
00:53:33,375 --> 00:53:36,208
 of getting all those pieces in the puzzle

1253
00:53:36,208 --> 00:53:39,250
 for the vast majority of people it's just

1254
00:53:39,250 --> 00:53:42,500
 not as effective um yeah and as you say

1255
00:53:42,500 --> 00:53:45,000
 it's it's unregulated it's all private um

1256
00:53:45,000 --> 00:53:48,208
 it's it's just a my a minefield for

1257
00:53:48,208 --> 00:53:50,666
 people to kind of get embroiled in and

1258
00:53:50,666 --> 00:53:52,541
 you can just as you say get all these

1259
00:53:52,541 --> 00:53:54,208
 different results and then still not

1260
00:53:54,208 --> 00:53:55,541
 really know like what to

1261
00:53:55,541 --> 00:53:57,208
 do about it so theoretically

1262
00:53:58,500 --> 00:54:00,625
 great but in practice it

1263
00:54:00,625 --> 00:54:02,458
 can be yeah challenging

1264
00:54:02,458 --> 00:54:06,208
 yeah i think so and uh yeah it's great in

1265
00:54:06,208 --> 00:54:08,291
 that it paints if you can do it it paints

1266
00:54:08,291 --> 00:54:10,791
 this beautiful picture but then you again

1267
00:54:10,791 --> 00:54:15,333
 uh at the risk of uh sounding like a

1268
00:54:15,333 --> 00:54:17,791
 crack record uh you've got to have

1269
00:54:17,791 --> 00:54:19,416
 somebody who can interpret this data and

1270
00:54:20,333 --> 00:54:24,416
 um i think that's yeah and when you have

1271
00:54:24,416 --> 00:54:27,500
 labs that are private and they aren't

1272
00:54:27,500 --> 00:54:29,333
 sort of taught in a medical curriculum it

1273
00:54:29,333 --> 00:54:32,958
 gets complicated anyway um i'm gonna give

1274
00:54:32,958 --> 00:54:34,708
 my soapbox now because i would like to

1275
00:54:34,708 --> 00:54:37,958
 get back to the nervous system um anyway

1276
00:54:37,958 --> 00:54:40,666
 we've i suppose gone around in circles

1277
00:54:40,666 --> 00:54:43,041
 which is likely my fault um but could you

1278
00:54:43,041 --> 00:54:45,625
 share your i suppose overarching

1279
00:54:45,625 --> 00:54:49,750
 philosophy with us with regards to why a

1280
00:54:49,750 --> 00:54:52,750
 mindset first approach is so vital for

1281
00:54:52,750 --> 00:54:54,041
 helping people to start feeling better i

1282
00:54:54,041 --> 00:54:56,208
 know we sort of already covered this but

1283
00:54:56,208 --> 00:54:58,250
 i'd i'd like it if we could maybe dig a

1284
00:54:58,250 --> 00:55:01,083
 little deeper into that i mean we've

1285
00:55:01,083 --> 00:55:05,583
 we've discussed why the biology behind

1286
00:55:05,583 --> 00:55:08,791
 the mindset but i think if we could maybe

1287
00:55:08,791 --> 00:55:11,625
 uh yeah talk a bit more about it from

1288
00:55:11,625 --> 00:55:13,583
 this sort of glass half-full approach

1289
00:55:13,583 --> 00:55:16,041
 that would be helpful for people and then

1290
00:55:16,041 --> 00:55:17,875
 i'd love to jump into your process a

1291
00:55:17,875 --> 00:55:19,500
 little later but if we could just be able

1292
00:55:19,500 --> 00:55:20,250
 to start there i

1293
00:55:20,250 --> 00:55:21,083
 think that would be great

1294
00:55:21,083 --> 00:55:24,708
 so mindset is incredibly important for

1295
00:55:24,708 --> 00:55:28,958
 healing recovery because it enables you

1296
00:55:28,958 --> 00:55:31,916
 to think forward and not be stuck in the

1297
00:55:31,916 --> 00:55:34,541
 past you need to believe that you can get

1298
00:55:34,541 --> 00:55:36,416
 better because you're feeding your brain

1299
00:55:36,416 --> 00:55:38,916
 with that information that you can get

1300
00:55:38,916 --> 00:55:40,458
 better instead of the kind of the

1301
00:55:40,458 --> 00:55:43,041
 negative cycle that you you can't so

1302
00:55:43,041 --> 00:55:45,166
 fundamentally you need to have the

1303
00:55:45,166 --> 00:55:48,041
 mindset element you also then can play

1304
00:55:48,041 --> 00:55:50,666
 into like the visualization aspect of it

1305
00:55:50,666 --> 00:55:54,416
 of visualizing um how your future can be

1306
00:55:54,416 --> 00:55:57,916
 and how well you can be so thinking in a

1307
00:55:57,916 --> 00:56:00,666
 positive mindset in terms of how your

1308
00:56:00,666 --> 00:56:03,625
 future life could look like because the

1309
00:56:03,625 --> 00:56:04,875
 brain doesn't really know the difference

1310
00:56:04,875 --> 00:56:08,916
 in reality and visualization so the more

1311
00:56:08,916 --> 00:56:10,083
 that you can feed it with that

1312
00:56:10,083 --> 00:56:12,125
 information the more it's going to

1313
00:56:12,125 --> 00:56:14,291
 receive that and then the neuroplasticity

1314
00:56:14,291 --> 00:56:17,291
 element will happen having said that

1315
00:56:17,291 --> 00:56:20,958
 getting well is not just about positive

1316
00:56:20,958 --> 00:56:24,333
 thinking if it was just that simple then

1317
00:56:24,333 --> 00:56:27,000
 we'd all be fine well not everybody

1318
00:56:27,000 --> 00:56:28,625
 because some people will never be able to

1319
00:56:28,625 --> 00:56:31,000
 get in that zone but it's not just about

1320
00:56:31,000 --> 00:56:34,000
 positive thinking if i go back 10 years i

1321
00:56:34,000 --> 00:56:35,875
 read all these books on the mind-body

1322
00:56:35,875 --> 00:56:38,583
 connection which was essentially as i

1323
00:56:38,583 --> 00:56:42,166
 read it was think yourself better and if

1324
00:56:42,166 --> 00:56:43,583
 you're not getting better then it's your

1325
00:56:43,583 --> 00:56:45,083
 fault because you're not thinking

1326
00:56:45,083 --> 00:56:48,166
 positively enough and it's just not that

1327
00:56:48,166 --> 00:56:50,666
 simple there is the bit i mentioned about

1328
00:56:50,666 --> 00:56:52,416
 mindset having that growth mindset

1329
00:56:52,416 --> 00:56:54,083
 believe you get better it's super

1330
00:56:54,083 --> 00:56:58,333
 important but neuroplasticity retraining

1331
00:56:58,333 --> 00:57:01,500
 the neural pathways in your in your brain

1332
00:57:01,500 --> 00:57:03,333
 retraining how your nervous system

1333
00:57:03,333 --> 00:57:06,250
 responds to stress they are fundamental

1334
00:57:06,708 --> 00:57:10,458
 components to getting well you need all

1335
00:57:10,458 --> 00:57:13,625
 of those things and before i work with

1336
00:57:13,625 --> 00:57:19,125
 anybody i have to know that they will

1337
00:57:19,125 --> 00:57:22,958
 learn to be able to think that they can

1338
00:57:22,958 --> 00:57:25,041
 get well and i said that in that kind of

1339
00:57:25,041 --> 00:57:27,291
 convoluted way because sometimes when i

1340
00:57:27,291 --> 00:57:28,541
 speak to people and they're quite sick

1341
00:57:29,375 --> 00:57:32,500
 they they just they're struggling to be

1342
00:57:32,500 --> 00:57:34,541
 able to get themselves in that mindset

1343
00:57:34,541 --> 00:57:37,833
 but they are open to it so you need to be

1344
00:57:37,833 --> 00:57:41,125
 open to the possibility that you can

1345
00:57:41,125 --> 00:57:44,250
 definitely get well and as you progress

1346
00:57:44,250 --> 00:57:47,333
 you that will be reinforced because

1347
00:57:47,333 --> 00:57:49,333
 you'll be like i i can feel i'm getting a

1348
00:57:49,333 --> 00:57:51,125
 bit better okay i now have hope i know i

1349
00:57:51,125 --> 00:57:53,291
 can get well so you have to be open to

1350
00:57:53,291 --> 00:57:56,458
 the possibility that you can get well and

1351
00:57:56,458 --> 00:57:59,000
 if you're not open to it and you're stuck

1352
00:57:59,000 --> 00:58:01,041
 in that rut and you're not going to be

1353
00:58:01,041 --> 00:58:03,208
 willing to move forward i don't work with

1354
00:58:03,208 --> 00:58:05,875
 those people because they're not going to

1355
00:58:05,875 --> 00:58:07,541
 they're just not going to benefit from

1356
00:58:07,541 --> 00:58:09,666
 from the the nervous system

1357
00:58:09,666 --> 00:58:12,041
 mindset kind of work essentially

1358
00:58:13,208 --> 00:58:16,458
 hazel i i couldn't agree more again i

1359
00:58:16,458 --> 00:58:19,291
 think mindset is completely critical and

1360
00:58:19,291 --> 00:58:22,291
 it's important that's required how do you

1361
00:58:22,291 --> 00:58:25,041
 work with people who have developed an

1362
00:58:25,041 --> 00:58:27,291
 identity around their disease their

1363
00:58:27,291 --> 00:58:29,666
 disorder um i know we were talking about

1364
00:58:29,666 --> 00:58:33,666
 this again um previously where we sort of

1365
00:58:33,666 --> 00:58:36,166
 noted that people will often create

1366
00:58:36,166 --> 00:58:39,500
 literal identities around this disease

1367
00:58:39,500 --> 00:58:41,500
 they have their instagram profiles of

1368
00:58:41,500 --> 00:58:44,750
 facebook profiles will be littered with

1369
00:58:44,750 --> 00:58:48,708
 fibro warrior or whatever is sort of

1370
00:58:49,500 --> 00:58:51,458
 whatever struggle they're going through

1371
00:58:51,458 --> 00:58:55,250
 um do you actually work with these sorts

1372
00:58:55,250 --> 00:58:58,166
 of people at all how do you sort of take

1373
00:58:58,166 --> 00:59:00,416
 someone who has sort of created this

1374
00:59:00,416 --> 00:59:03,458
 sickness identity and then i suppose get

1375
00:59:03,458 --> 00:59:07,666
 them back into a state of being of not

1376
00:59:07,666 --> 00:59:09,250
 identifying with their illness

1377
00:59:09,250 --> 00:59:11,916
 i haven't worked with anybody who's

1378
00:59:11,916 --> 00:59:14,666
 actually got it put all over their

1379
00:59:14,666 --> 00:59:18,583
 facebook profile i've worked with people

1380
00:59:18,583 --> 00:59:22,166
 who are quite consumed with their illness

1381
00:59:22,166 --> 00:59:25,291
 and that's quite common and quite natural

1382
00:59:25,291 --> 00:59:28,833
 to be like that i don't know from my

1383
00:59:28,833 --> 00:59:31,000
 experience of interacting with people who

1384
00:59:31,000 --> 00:59:32,958
 do have the labels whether they're the

1385
00:59:32,958 --> 00:59:35,250
 people who would be open to recovery it

1386
00:59:35,250 --> 00:59:36,458
 feels like they've almost become

1387
00:59:36,458 --> 00:59:40,583
 ingrained in this identity they i'm not

1388
00:59:40,583 --> 00:59:42,791
 saying that they enjoy being there but

1389
00:59:42,791 --> 00:59:45,166
 there's something about being stuck there

1390
00:59:45,166 --> 00:59:47,583
 that makes them feel like they want to be

1391
00:59:47,583 --> 00:59:49,125
 stuck there maybe there's an element of

1392
00:59:49,125 --> 00:59:52,500
 safety around it i imagine they must have

1393
00:59:52,500 --> 00:59:55,000
 probably some kind of fixed mindset to

1394
00:59:55,000 --> 00:59:57,833
 actually be okay with putting that label

1395
00:59:57,833 --> 00:59:59,833
 on making sure everybody knows that

1396
00:59:59,833 --> 01:00:01,833
 they've got that label and from

1397
01:00:01,833 --> 01:00:04,041
 experience they haven't been super open

1398
01:00:04,041 --> 01:00:09,625
 to the idea that you can get well i think

1399
01:00:09,625 --> 01:00:11,791
 that people who've been ill for quite a

1400
01:00:11,791 --> 01:00:14,208
 long time and i'm going to say in the UK

1401
01:00:14,208 --> 01:00:15,750
 but i think it's the same in the u.s as

1402
01:00:15,750 --> 01:00:18,500
 well in terms of the the associations

1403
01:00:18,500 --> 01:00:22,375
 that envelop around these conditions so

1404
01:00:22,375 --> 01:00:23,833
 we're talking about the ME association,

1405
01:00:24,000 --> 01:00:25,208
 the long cover association, the fabriero

1406
01:00:25,208 --> 01:00:27,541
 association they've got a lot to answer

1407
01:00:27,541 --> 01:00:29,958
 for to be honest because their websites

1408
01:00:29,958 --> 01:00:32,416
 will tell you that there's no cure and

1409
01:00:32,416 --> 01:00:34,708
 there's no solution and there's no

1410
01:00:34,708 --> 01:00:37,833
 nothing so if you're the type of person

1411
01:00:37,833 --> 01:00:42,250
 who believes these the doctors because

1412
01:00:42,250 --> 01:00:43,750
 they you know they have professors they

1413
01:00:43,750 --> 01:00:45,333
 have all these experts who kind of

1414
01:00:45,333 --> 01:00:49,041
 support these associations and they they

1415
01:00:49,041 --> 01:00:50,541
 tell you that so if you're the type of

1416
01:00:50,541 --> 01:00:53,125
 person who who believes that and believe

1417
01:00:53,125 --> 01:00:54,875
 the doctor's always right and believes

1418
01:00:54,875 --> 01:00:56,583
 that there's no no way of getting better

1419
01:00:56,583 --> 01:01:01,166
 then that's what you will always believe

1420
01:01:01,166 --> 01:01:03,250
 if you're not willing to question it and

1421
01:01:03,250 --> 01:01:06,041
 actually if i have a i'm getting trolled

1422
01:01:06,041 --> 01:01:08,875
 trolled on anything that i put out there

1423
01:01:08,875 --> 01:01:11,375
 um on long covid or fibromyalgia the

1424
01:01:11,375 --> 01:01:15,541
 abuse i get is quite insane and that i'm

1425
01:01:15,541 --> 01:01:17,875
 selling snake oil and actually conning

1426
01:01:17,875 --> 01:01:20,666
 people because it's people will tell me

1427
01:01:20,666 --> 01:01:24,000
 it's fundamentally impossible to get

1428
01:01:24,000 --> 01:01:26,083
 better from fibromyalgia it's

1429
01:01:26,083 --> 01:01:28,000
 fundamentally impossible to get better

1430
01:01:28,000 --> 01:01:30,708
 from cfs because this doctor told me or i

1431
01:01:30,708 --> 01:01:32,833
 read it over here or this person and or

1432
01:01:32,833 --> 01:01:35,333
 they or they use themselves an example i

1433
01:01:35,333 --> 01:01:36,916
 know it's impossible to get better

1434
01:01:36,916 --> 01:01:40,375
 because i haven't got better and it's

1435
01:01:40,375 --> 01:01:44,500
 that mentality that i've well it's not

1436
01:01:44,500 --> 01:01:46,083
 that i wouldn't work with them i wouldn't

1437
01:01:46,083 --> 01:01:47,750
 work with them they wouldn't work with me

1438
01:01:47,750 --> 01:01:50,250
 because they think i'm talking absolute

1439
01:01:50,250 --> 01:01:53,333
 nonsense but i struggle with the mindset

1440
01:01:53,333 --> 01:01:55,583
 of people who are not open to it because

1441
01:01:55,583 --> 01:01:58,625
 i was always believed that there was a

1442
01:01:58,625 --> 01:02:01,166
 route to get better always i just hadn't

1443
01:02:01,166 --> 01:02:05,875
 found it yet and to be of the mindset

1444
01:02:05,875 --> 01:02:09,583
 where you would rather have all this pain

1445
01:02:09,583 --> 01:02:12,000
 have all this fatigue have this terrible

1446
01:02:12,000 --> 01:02:13,833
 terrible life that they keep telling you

1447
01:02:13,833 --> 01:02:16,000
 about their terrible terrible life you

1448
01:02:16,000 --> 01:02:18,916
 still would rather stick there waiting

1449
01:02:18,916 --> 01:02:24,125
 for something magical to happen the

1450
01:02:24,125 --> 01:02:25,458
 emitia so the association just suddenly

1451
01:02:25,458 --> 01:02:27,333
 turned around and go sorry we got it all

1452
01:02:27,333 --> 01:02:30,541
 wrong yes you can get better if they ever

1453
01:02:30,541 --> 01:02:33,500
 did turn around and did that there would

1454
01:02:33,500 --> 01:02:36,833
 be a huge shift in like people being able

1455
01:02:36,833 --> 01:02:40,000
 to get better but until that happens um

1456
01:02:40,000 --> 01:02:41,500
 you're going to keep having these

1457
01:02:41,500 --> 01:02:43,166
 warriors and keep having these people who

1458
01:02:43,166 --> 01:02:47,875
 these identities are consumed by chronic

1459
01:02:47,875 --> 01:02:50,708
 illness you know kind of a comfort

1460
01:02:50,708 --> 01:02:52,625
 blanket in some some ways i think you

1461
01:02:52,625 --> 01:02:53,791
 know but it's not something

1462
01:02:53,791 --> 01:02:55,833
 i personally can relate to

1463
01:02:57,250 --> 01:02:59,500
 yeah no i i think you touched on a lot of

1464
01:02:59,500 --> 01:03:01,375
 points and i think i think for what is

1465
01:03:01,375 --> 01:03:03,708
 worth fundamentally that people get

1466
01:03:03,708 --> 01:03:05,333
 wrapped up in these ideologies in their

1467
01:03:05,333 --> 01:03:07,000
 belief systems because as you said

1468
01:03:07,000 --> 01:03:10,500
 they're safe and i think um there's also

1469
01:03:10,500 --> 01:03:12,083
 community there there are other people

1470
01:03:12,083 --> 01:03:14,750
 who share these same belief systems and

1471
01:03:14,750 --> 01:03:17,208
 as a result of that if you can then

1472
01:03:17,208 --> 01:03:19,916
 identify as being part of this community

1473
01:03:19,916 --> 01:03:22,125
 you now have other

1474
01:03:22,125 --> 01:03:23,541
 people in your life to make

1475
01:03:23,541 --> 01:03:26,500
 it distracting from the misery but the

1476
01:03:26,500 --> 01:03:29,375
 community element is super important but

1477
01:03:29,375 --> 01:03:31,583
 it is it's that safety net isn't it

1478
01:03:31,583 --> 01:03:33,416
 yeah and it just feeds into another

1479
01:03:33,416 --> 01:03:37,875
 ideology i mean uh people will get uh the

1480
01:03:37,875 --> 01:03:40,000
 dietary the dietary tribes that sort of

1481
01:03:40,000 --> 01:03:41,583
 develop are the same way aren't they

1482
01:03:41,583 --> 01:03:45,125
 people will sort of literally tear you

1483
01:03:45,125 --> 01:03:47,166
 apart if you dare sort of question their

1484
01:03:47,166 --> 01:03:51,375
 carnivore or vegan diet irrespective of

1485
01:03:51,375 --> 01:03:54,000
 whether it's helping that person or not

1486
01:03:54,000 --> 01:03:57,416
 or irrespective and it just comes down to

1487
01:03:57,416 --> 01:03:59,208
 these sort of these tribal belief

1488
01:03:59,208 --> 01:04:01,958
 patterns that people pick up and again

1489
01:04:01,958 --> 01:04:04,000
 it's it's i don't think it's got anything

1490
01:04:04,000 --> 01:04:06,958
 to do with the diet it's got to do with a

1491
01:04:06,958 --> 01:04:11,625
 belief system or yeah that makes them

1492
01:04:11,625 --> 01:04:14,250
 feel safe that makes them again feel part

1493
01:04:14,250 --> 01:04:17,416
 of this community and that's i think

1494
01:04:17,416 --> 01:04:19,833
 incredibly powerful and nobody

1495
01:04:19,833 --> 01:04:21,625
 fundamentally wants to be alone and when

1496
01:04:21,625 --> 01:04:23,791
 you are not well you are for the most

1497
01:04:23,791 --> 01:04:26,750
 part alone and that is an incredibly

1498
01:04:26,750 --> 01:04:30,416
 unpleasant place to be so um and i and i

1499
01:04:30,416 --> 01:04:33,708
 think i think that's maybe the silver

1500
01:04:33,708 --> 01:04:36,583
 lining of covid and in that it's brought

1501
01:04:36,583 --> 01:04:38,750
 a lot more awareness to these sorts of

1502
01:04:38,750 --> 01:04:41,750
 issues broadly speaking um i mean

1503
01:04:41,750 --> 01:04:44,083
 fundamentally what covid long covid is

1504
01:04:44,083 --> 01:04:47,625
 sort of all things uh sort of removed in

1505
01:04:47,625 --> 01:04:52,541
 terms of whether it's active reactivated

1506
01:04:52,541 --> 01:04:55,916
 ebbv or whatever um it's essentially this

1507
01:04:55,916 --> 01:05:00,875
 sort of me cfs stuff and i think that um

1508
01:05:02,541 --> 01:05:04,583
 this awareness that's now growing as a

1509
01:05:04,583 --> 01:05:08,000
 result of that is definitely going to do

1510
01:05:08,000 --> 01:05:11,958
 the whole community a lot of good now

1511
01:05:11,958 --> 01:05:14,416
 that has to sort of evolve past this

1512
01:05:14,416 --> 01:05:16,583
 again fixed mindset of the me association

1513
01:05:16,583 --> 01:05:20,125
 says it's not curable unless someone

1514
01:05:20,125 --> 01:05:23,208
 happens to develop a drug that is going

1515
01:05:23,208 --> 01:05:26,375
 to sort of solve that problem um but yeah

1516
01:05:26,375 --> 01:05:30,041
 no i think fundamentally that's the issue

1517
01:05:30,041 --> 01:05:31,916
 that most people have is just this sort

1518
01:05:31,916 --> 01:05:35,958
 of this isolation and this need for

1519
01:05:35,958 --> 01:05:39,291
 community around it and i'm being verbose

1520
01:05:39,291 --> 01:05:40,833
 again so i'm going to stop talking but

1521
01:05:40,833 --> 01:05:43,583
 your world becomes a lot smaller and

1522
01:05:43,583 --> 01:05:45,208
 you're you're basically living through

1523
01:05:45,208 --> 01:05:46,500
 the internet and we know that the

1524
01:05:46,500 --> 01:05:48,500
 internet can be a very negative and

1525
01:05:48,500 --> 01:05:51,000
 dangerous place and actually my biggest

1526
01:05:51,000 --> 01:05:53,041
 bug bear with people who are chronically

1527
01:05:53,125 --> 01:05:55,833
 ill so if somebody who say who's got had

1528
01:05:55,833 --> 01:06:00,833
 cfs or me and they get better there will

1529
01:06:00,833 --> 01:06:02,708
 be a group of people who say you didn't

1530
01:06:02,708 --> 01:06:05,458
 have it in the first place because it's

1531
01:06:05,458 --> 01:06:07,458
 not possible to get back better from it

1532
01:06:07,458 --> 01:06:10,500
 so what i have or what you had are not

1533
01:06:10,500 --> 01:06:13,500
 the same thing that like dismissive

1534
01:06:13,500 --> 01:06:17,875
 accusatory behavior i find difficult to

1535
01:06:17,875 --> 01:06:20,166
 get my head around you know putting down

1536
01:06:20,166 --> 01:06:22,208
 other people's experiences because they

1537
01:06:22,208 --> 01:06:24,291
 were able to actually get themselves

1538
01:06:24,291 --> 01:06:25,083
 better dismissing

1539
01:06:25,083 --> 01:06:26,625
 somebody else's experiences

1540
01:06:27,125 --> 01:06:29,291
 it's just disappointment isn't it it's

1541
01:06:29,291 --> 01:06:31,875
 almost it's just it's a envy you don't

1542
01:06:31,875 --> 01:06:33,958
 want to acknowledge that somebody else

1543
01:06:33,958 --> 01:06:35,250
 has been able to achieve what you've not

1544
01:06:35,250 --> 01:06:38,208
 been able to choose yourself and i think

1545
01:06:38,208 --> 01:06:42,541
 that it's very hard to celebrate somebody

1546
01:06:42,541 --> 01:06:45,750
 else's win when you are still sort of

1547
01:06:45,750 --> 01:06:48,041
 just trying to get past the start line so

1548
01:06:48,041 --> 01:06:49,458
 i think that just comes

1549
01:06:49,458 --> 01:06:50,958
 down to a certain level of risk

1550
01:06:51,125 --> 01:06:53,166
 again it's the fixed mindset because you

1551
01:06:53,166 --> 01:06:55,416
 could be of the view how did you get

1552
01:06:55,416 --> 01:06:58,041
 better you managed to get better please

1553
01:06:58,041 --> 01:07:01,458
 help me how did you do it you could be a

1554
01:07:01,458 --> 01:07:02,333
 fat or you could be

1555
01:07:02,333 --> 01:07:04,250
 like well you weren't a

1556
01:07:04,250 --> 01:07:06,541
 human condition though isn't it it's hard

1557
01:07:06,541 --> 01:07:10,125
 to not feel that resentment and it's and

1558
01:07:10,125 --> 01:07:12,375
 and and if you if you feel resentment by

1559
01:07:12,375 --> 01:07:15,833
 default it's very hard to then actually

1560
01:07:15,833 --> 01:07:17,625
 ask someone how they achieve something

1561
01:07:17,625 --> 01:07:19,541
 it's much easier just to sort of throw

1562
01:07:19,541 --> 01:07:24,000
 them their anecdotal success under the

1563
01:07:24,000 --> 01:07:26,791
 bus and say well you didn't have it as

1564
01:07:26,791 --> 01:07:28,500
 bad as me you didn't

1565
01:07:28,500 --> 01:07:29,500
 have it at all whatever

1566
01:07:29,500 --> 01:07:31,916
 competition going on with who's the worst

1567
01:07:31,916 --> 01:07:33,833
 who's got the worst symptoms who's had it

1568
01:07:33,833 --> 01:07:36,875
 the longest and i when i was sick and i

1569
01:07:36,875 --> 01:07:38,625
 was super sick you can say i wasn't sick

1570
01:07:38,625 --> 01:07:40,541
 because i got better but i was really

1571
01:07:40,541 --> 01:07:44,208
 sick when i had um cfs and long covid but

1572
01:07:44,208 --> 01:07:49,208
 i never was of that mindset of hatred

1573
01:07:49,208 --> 01:07:51,583
 towards people who are getting better or

1574
01:07:51,583 --> 01:07:53,875
 believing that they weren't sick you know

1575
01:07:53,875 --> 01:07:57,000
 i was always just like how did you get

1576
01:07:57,000 --> 01:07:59,125
 better and how can i get better you know

1577
01:07:59,125 --> 01:08:02,458
 i just would never have you know gone

1578
01:08:02,458 --> 01:08:05,250
 gone down that room and it's again just

1579
01:08:05,250 --> 01:08:06,750
 different mindsets of people

1580
01:08:06,750 --> 01:08:09,833
 yeah i'm afraid i don't have a a retort

1581
01:08:09,833 --> 01:08:12,125
 or a comeback or any of for that one i

1582
01:08:12,125 --> 01:08:16,833
 don't know how anyone can sort of alter

1583
01:08:16,833 --> 01:08:20,250
 that perception i suppose is the best

1584
01:08:20,250 --> 01:08:24,666
 word on on on appreciating somebody

1585
01:08:24,666 --> 01:08:26,416
 else's success and then being willing to

1586
01:08:26,416 --> 01:08:28,708
 learn from them i i don't know what

1587
01:08:28,708 --> 01:08:30,666
 fundamentally drives that sort of

1588
01:08:30,666 --> 01:08:32,708
 behavior in somebody um i'm trying to

1589
01:08:32,708 --> 01:08:36,125
 think which is a bad idea but anyway okay

1590
01:08:36,125 --> 01:08:38,166
 we've been going around in this circle

1591
01:08:38,166 --> 01:08:43,958
 for a while so um hey so what about what

1592
01:08:43,958 --> 01:08:45,791
 actually works now uh for the listeners

1593
01:08:45,791 --> 01:08:48,000
 who are still here i assume they are

1594
01:08:48,000 --> 01:08:49,708
 probably after a few tidbits of

1595
01:08:49,708 --> 01:08:52,875
 information that you have found and

1596
01:08:52,875 --> 01:08:55,583
 developed that help people to sort of

1597
01:08:55,583 --> 01:08:58,125
 move the needle now i'm not expecting you

1598
01:08:58,125 --> 01:09:00,541
 to give away your ip well maybe not all

1599
01:09:00,541 --> 01:09:03,375
 of it but yeah would you be open to

1600
01:09:03,375 --> 01:09:04,916
 sharing sort of just broadly speaking of

1601
01:09:04,916 --> 01:09:08,666
 course what you found is effective for

1602
01:09:08,666 --> 01:09:11,916
 people at helping them to maybe get out

1603
01:09:11,916 --> 01:09:14,375
 of uh the worst of it

1604
01:09:15,291 --> 01:09:17,541
 yeah so it's it's a combination of things

1605
01:09:17,541 --> 01:09:19,958
 it's around different techniques to

1606
01:09:19,958 --> 01:09:21,583
 regulate your nervous system it's around

1607
01:09:21,583 --> 01:09:24,208
 different techniques to rewire your brain

1608
01:09:24,208 --> 01:09:27,166
 and then it's also looking into what's

1609
01:09:27,166 --> 01:09:29,125
 causing it in the first place what

1610
01:09:29,125 --> 01:09:30,583
 patterns and behaviors are kind of

1611
01:09:30,583 --> 01:09:33,208
 getting getting you there what i

1612
01:09:33,208 --> 01:09:34,666
 generally start people off with is

1613
01:09:34,666 --> 01:09:36,750
 actually increasing their capacity to be

1614
01:09:36,750 --> 01:09:38,500
 able to heal so it is actually a lot

1615
01:09:38,500 --> 01:09:40,583
 around doing visualization meditations

1616
01:09:40,583 --> 01:09:43,375
 and mindset work so that you're actually

1617
01:09:43,375 --> 01:09:46,458
 prepared and ready to be able to start

1618
01:09:46,458 --> 01:09:48,166
 regulating your nervous system because if

1619
01:09:48,166 --> 01:09:50,083
 you are sick you can get overwhelmed

1620
01:09:50,083 --> 01:09:52,333
 quite quickly not so much psychologically

1621
01:09:52,333 --> 01:09:54,000
 overwhelmed but your nervous system

1622
01:09:54,000 --> 01:09:56,625
 become become overwhelmed but one of the

1623
01:09:56,625 --> 01:09:59,000
 key techniques that i then introduce is

1624
01:09:59,000 --> 01:10:01,416
 what i call the TED method and it relates

1625
01:10:01,416 --> 01:10:03,583
 to what i was talking about earlier in

1626
01:10:03,583 --> 01:10:06,041
 terms of how your nervous system is

1627
01:10:06,041 --> 01:10:09,916
 informing your brain essentially so it's

1628
01:10:09,916 --> 01:10:13,166
 thoughts emotions breathing and body so

1629
01:10:13,166 --> 01:10:16,041
 every 15 minutes so i would say 15

1630
01:10:16,041 --> 01:10:18,625
 minutes if you are dysregulated and you

1631
01:10:18,625 --> 01:10:20,791
 can put a timer on and then you can

1632
01:10:20,791 --> 01:10:24,416
 reduce it as you become weller every 15

1633
01:10:24,416 --> 01:10:27,750
 minutes do a scan of your body and just

1634
01:10:27,750 --> 01:10:29,875
 be like hey what are my thoughts like are

1635
01:10:29,875 --> 01:10:32,125
 they neutral are they positive are they

1636
01:10:32,125 --> 01:10:35,083
 negative what are my emotions like are

1637
01:10:35,083 --> 01:10:37,666
 they strained are they happy are they sad

1638
01:10:37,666 --> 01:10:41,166
 are they angry what's my breathing like

1639
01:10:41,166 --> 01:10:45,083
 is it sharp shallow breathing from the

1640
01:10:45,083 --> 01:10:49,000
 chest slow and what is my body like am i

1641
01:10:49,000 --> 01:10:52,625
 tense am i relaxed am i how am i sitting

1642
01:10:52,625 --> 01:10:54,958
 what's my positioning and then you can

1643
01:10:54,958 --> 01:10:57,541
 basically reset all of those things and

1644
01:10:57,541 --> 01:11:00,125
 just be like okay so any negative

1645
01:11:00,125 --> 01:11:01,625
 thoughts are gone i'm going to be

1646
01:11:01,625 --> 01:11:04,208
 thinking mutually or whatever just if

1647
01:11:04,208 --> 01:11:05,625
 you're in a kind of some kind of dark

1648
01:11:05,625 --> 01:11:07,875
 hole or going down a rabbit hole it can

1649
01:11:07,875 --> 01:11:09,291
 be quite easy for people to get in sort

1650
01:11:09,291 --> 01:11:12,041
 of spirals ruminations switch off any of

1651
01:11:12,041 --> 01:11:14,958
 those ruminations relax all of your

1652
01:11:14,958 --> 01:11:18,125
 muscles your jaw your tongue really kind

1653
01:11:18,125 --> 01:11:19,916
 of do that body scan you could be holding

1654
01:11:19,916 --> 01:11:21,875
 onto muscles that you're not even aware

1655
01:11:21,875 --> 01:11:23,958
 that you're holding on to and then you

1656
01:11:23,958 --> 01:11:25,625
 can get up or get up and

1657
01:11:25,625 --> 01:11:28,083
 just shake for like a minute

1658
01:11:28,083 --> 01:11:29,833
 yoga nidra sort of stuff

1659
01:11:29,833 --> 01:11:33,291
 yeah and just um and that will release

1660
01:11:33,291 --> 01:11:36,583
 any kind of the i guess pent up energy

1661
01:11:36,583 --> 01:11:40,083
 that's inside your your body and if you

1662
01:11:40,083 --> 01:11:44,125
 do that on a regular basis you will start

1663
01:11:44,125 --> 01:11:45,875
 to see some shifts because what you're

1664
01:11:45,875 --> 01:11:48,958
 doing is that if you were in a state of

1665
01:11:48,958 --> 01:11:51,791
 fight or flight with those things kind of

1666
01:11:52,375 --> 01:11:54,708
 pent up you're then switching yourself

1667
01:11:54,708 --> 01:11:57,916
 into then the rest and digestate and then

1668
01:11:57,916 --> 01:12:01,166
 you're kind of resetting essentially use

1669
01:12:01,166 --> 01:12:02,708
 the word resetting but you're basically

1670
01:12:02,708 --> 01:12:04,958
 resetting the state that your nervous

1671
01:12:04,958 --> 01:12:08,250
 system was in and over time once your

1672
01:12:08,250 --> 01:12:10,666
 system becomes normalized into it's

1673
01:12:10,666 --> 01:12:13,833
 actually relaxing then that's when you

1674
01:12:13,833 --> 01:12:16,000
 can start to see those shifts happening

1675
01:12:16,000 --> 01:12:19,125
 in terms of your symptoms but it's about

1676
01:12:19,125 --> 01:12:22,625
 that awareness and people are always

1677
01:12:22,625 --> 01:12:25,625
 amazed by how much they were kind of

1678
01:12:25,833 --> 01:12:30,125
 holding in a kind of day to day but they

1679
01:12:30,125 --> 01:12:31,916
 didn't even realize that they were they

1680
01:12:31,916 --> 01:12:34,833
 were doing so that for me is one of the

1681
01:12:34,833 --> 01:12:36,708
 really thing that people can take away

1682
01:12:36,708 --> 01:12:41,291
 and just do really regularly and just see

1683
01:12:41,291 --> 01:12:42,958
 see what their natural state

1684
01:12:42,958 --> 01:12:45,541
 is um on a day to day basis

1685
01:12:45,541 --> 01:12:49,625
 fair enough and i suppose you're talking

1686
01:12:49,625 --> 01:12:53,541
 to chemists what are there any sort of

1687
01:12:53,541 --> 01:12:55,791
 supplements that you do like are there

1688
01:12:55,791 --> 01:12:59,333
 any sort of dietary interventions that

1689
01:12:59,333 --> 01:13:01,666
 you find are effective at helping people

1690
01:13:01,666 --> 01:13:04,541
 to sort of support these uh

1691
01:13:06,083 --> 01:13:08,083
 excuse me the behavioral aspect of what

1692
01:13:08,083 --> 01:13:09,750
 it is that you do or do you sort of

1693
01:13:09,750 --> 01:13:11,083
 generally steer clear that sort of thing

1694
01:13:11,083 --> 01:13:13,375
 i generally steer clear of anything

1695
01:13:13,375 --> 01:13:15,875
 supplement related because i would be

1696
01:13:15,875 --> 01:13:18,375
 giving advice anecdotally or based on

1697
01:13:18,375 --> 01:13:20,291
 things that i've read or experiences i've

1698
01:13:20,291 --> 01:13:24,041
 had and supplements generally people need

1699
01:13:24,041 --> 01:13:25,416
 different things for different reasons

1700
01:13:25,416 --> 01:13:27,291
 having said that i would always say

1701
01:13:27,291 --> 01:13:29,958
 magnesium is a great um supplement taking

1702
01:13:29,958 --> 01:13:32,291
 but i don't really think it's in my

1703
01:13:32,291 --> 01:13:33,500
 wheelhouse to be talking about

1704
01:13:33,500 --> 01:13:37,000
 supplements diet is super important again

1705
01:13:37,000 --> 01:13:38,916
 not going into different types of diets

1706
01:13:38,916 --> 01:13:40,541
 but making sure you're having a balanced

1707
01:13:40,541 --> 01:13:44,208
 diet with a good amount of protein and

1708
01:13:44,208 --> 01:13:48,166
 enough vegetables and fruit um basically

1709
01:13:48,166 --> 01:13:50,083
 steering away from processed food as much

1710
01:13:50,083 --> 01:13:53,166
 as possible because it's going to be not

1711
01:13:53,166 --> 01:13:55,583
 doing your body any good whatsoever so

1712
01:13:55,583 --> 01:13:59,083
 having a healthy diet is very important

1713
01:13:59,083 --> 01:14:01,875
 having good sleep a lot of people i work

1714
01:14:01,875 --> 01:14:05,333
 with however i do not have good sleep and

1715
01:14:05,333 --> 01:14:07,166
 that's because their nervous system is

1716
01:14:07,166 --> 01:14:11,416
 dysregulated so as a as part of doing the

1717
01:14:11,416 --> 01:14:14,125
 work that i do with people over time

1718
01:14:14,125 --> 01:14:16,750
 their sleep improves but it's about

1719
01:14:16,750 --> 01:14:19,916
 making sure you've got a routine you're

1720
01:14:19,916 --> 01:14:21,416
 going to bed at the same time you're

1721
01:14:21,416 --> 01:14:23,500
 getting up at the same time and trying to

1722
01:14:23,500 --> 01:14:26,875
 put those practices in place so it is

1723
01:14:26,875 --> 01:14:29,875
 about your lifestyle you know making sure

1724
01:14:29,875 --> 01:14:31,416
 that you've got the right nutrients in

1725
01:14:31,416 --> 01:14:33,416
 your body either through supplements or

1726
01:14:33,416 --> 01:14:36,291
 through food getting enough sleep getting

1727
01:14:36,291 --> 01:14:39,916
 enough rest don't be off up at the crack

1728
01:14:39,916 --> 01:14:43,666
 of dawn going on a run rushing to work

1729
01:14:43,666 --> 01:14:46,291
 never taking a break out in the evening

1730
01:14:46,291 --> 01:14:49,125
 drinking going to a hit class doing the

1731
01:14:49,125 --> 01:14:51,416
 same thing over and over again

1732
01:14:52,625 --> 01:14:55,166
 you're going to burn out um so it's about

1733
01:14:55,166 --> 01:14:58,916
 being sensible and taking breaks and just

1734
01:14:58,916 --> 01:15:03,958
 checking in on how your body is feeling

1735
01:15:03,958 --> 01:15:07,750
 most of us are stuck in our heads most

1736
01:15:07,750 --> 01:15:08,875
 people who work in the corporate

1737
01:15:08,875 --> 01:15:10,625
 environment are so used to being

1738
01:15:10,625 --> 01:15:12,875
 analytical and just thinking with their

1739
01:15:12,875 --> 01:15:14,875
 heads they have no idea what's going on

1740
01:15:14,875 --> 01:15:16,875
 in their body they don't know how to feel

1741
01:15:16,875 --> 01:15:19,208
 anymore they don't know what their body

1742
01:15:19,208 --> 01:15:21,000
 is feeling they don't pick up on any

1743
01:15:21,000 --> 01:15:24,166
 sensations they either can't feel it they

1744
01:15:24,166 --> 01:15:27,458
 don't know it they ignore it brush it

1745
01:15:27,458 --> 01:15:30,166
 under the carpet it's it's really

1746
01:15:30,166 --> 01:15:32,041
 starting to take notice take

1747
01:15:32,041 --> 01:15:34,958
 accountability take responsibility for

1748
01:15:34,958 --> 01:15:37,333
 your own health you can't rely on other

1749
01:15:37,333 --> 01:15:39,208
 people and i think that's the difference

1750
01:15:39,208 --> 01:15:42,541
 between nervous system work and other

1751
01:15:42,541 --> 01:15:45,000
 types of work is people are so used to

1752
01:15:45,000 --> 01:15:47,416
 outsourcing their health i'll go see a

1753
01:15:47,416 --> 01:15:49,583
 therapist i'll go see an acupuncturist

1754
01:15:49,583 --> 01:15:52,250
 i'll go and get a medication i'll go have

1755
01:15:52,250 --> 01:15:54,708
 a massage i'll go somewhere for an hour

1756
01:15:54,708 --> 01:15:57,208
 and someone will make me better and

1757
01:15:57,208 --> 01:15:59,875
 that's not going to cut it if you've got

1758
01:15:59,875 --> 01:16:01,666
 yourself into a state of chronic illness

1759
01:16:01,666 --> 01:16:05,000
 you've got to work on yourself from

1760
01:16:05,000 --> 01:16:08,250
 within there's no quick fixes that's the

1761
01:16:08,250 --> 01:16:11,291
 only way that you can really start to

1762
01:16:11,833 --> 01:16:13,541
 make inroads on your health really

1763
01:16:13,541 --> 01:16:16,583
 yeah one argument might be and that's

1764
01:16:16,583 --> 01:16:20,833
 psychedelics now um i know you have

1765
01:16:20,833 --> 01:16:23,583
 thoughts and opinions on these um there's

1766
01:16:23,583 --> 01:16:26,000
 a lot of research uh obviously with

1767
01:16:26,416 --> 01:16:29,250
 within the maps community uh run by rick

1768
01:16:29,250 --> 01:16:31,250
 dopplin actually i saw you some research

1769
01:16:31,250 --> 01:16:32,458
 there i think i'm going to send it to you

1770
01:16:32,458 --> 01:16:36,166
 at some point sorry about that um uh

1771
01:16:36,166 --> 01:16:39,166
 about utilizing um these so-called

1772
01:16:39,291 --> 01:16:42,625
 psychedelic compounds to help and get the

1773
01:16:42,625 --> 01:16:46,875
 to help uh with this ego dissolution side

1774
01:16:46,875 --> 01:16:49,916
 of things to help to help the reticular

1775
01:16:49,916 --> 01:16:52,500
 activating system the part of that brain

1776
01:16:52,500 --> 01:16:55,458
 that sort of uh what's the best word

1777
01:16:55,458 --> 01:17:00,708
 tends to uh mulch over the same thoughts

1778
01:17:00,708 --> 01:17:04,000
 continuously to disconnect um now

1779
01:17:04,000 --> 01:17:07,625
 essentially in this research what happens

1780
01:17:07,625 --> 01:17:09,583
 is you you take the you take a

1781
01:17:09,583 --> 01:17:12,041
 psychedelic whether it's mdma mescaline

1782
01:17:12,041 --> 01:17:15,875
 most of them are serogenic compounds

1783
01:17:16,500 --> 01:17:18,750
 normally sort of derived from psilocybin

1784
01:17:18,750 --> 01:17:21,916
 or the aforementioned other drugs um and

1785
01:17:21,916 --> 01:17:24,666
 they there is some data especially within

1786
01:17:24,666 --> 01:17:28,416
 the ptsd community which is as you know

1787
01:17:28,416 --> 01:17:30,333
 sort of central nervous system

1788
01:17:30,333 --> 01:17:33,250
 dysfunction autonomic dysregulation 101

1789
01:17:33,250 --> 01:17:36,625
 um where these compounds have been shown

1790
01:17:36,625 --> 01:17:39,958
 to be very effective at helping to to

1791
01:17:39,958 --> 01:17:43,333
 modulate these thinking patterns um and

1792
01:17:43,333 --> 01:17:45,125
 then subsequently downstream of that

1793
01:17:45,125 --> 01:17:48,000
 there are a whole bunch of immunological

1794
01:17:48,000 --> 01:17:51,500
 and inflammatory um well improvements

1795
01:17:51,500 --> 01:17:54,541
 fundamentally uh now i don't suppose you

1796
01:17:54,541 --> 01:17:57,500
 have a huge amount of uh personal

1797
01:17:57,500 --> 01:18:00,375
 experiences with academics um but what do

1798
01:18:00,375 --> 01:18:02,041
 you think of this body of research in

1799
01:18:02,041 --> 01:18:03,833
 general do you think that there's

1800
01:18:03,833 --> 01:18:06,916
 something there or is there is it a bit

1801
01:18:06,916 --> 01:18:09,375
 sort of asking for trouble do you think

1802
01:18:09,375 --> 01:18:12,416
 i think it's awesome to be honest i know

1803
01:18:12,416 --> 01:18:16,500
 that there's been a lot of success in the

1804
01:18:16,500 --> 01:18:18,458
 trials that have been done in relation to

1805
01:18:18,458 --> 01:18:20,833
 addictions and to ptsd and i know there's

1806
01:18:20,833 --> 01:18:23,625
 some trials now in relation to long covid

1807
01:18:23,625 --> 01:18:27,583
 i think anything that can be helpful

1808
01:18:27,583 --> 01:18:30,916
 should be pursued and funded and

1809
01:18:30,916 --> 01:18:35,041
 researched more it takes us away from the

1810
01:18:35,041 --> 01:18:38,083
 pharmaceutical reliance and with the

1811
01:18:38,083 --> 01:18:40,541
 psychedelics it can actually you know

1812
01:18:40,541 --> 01:18:43,791
 rewire the brain which has got itself

1813
01:18:43,791 --> 01:18:47,125
 into a bit of a dysregulation as such so

1814
01:18:47,125 --> 01:18:50,833
 anything that can help i'm fully

1815
01:18:50,833 --> 01:18:54,291
 supportive of it's a shame that it is

1816
01:18:54,291 --> 01:18:57,458
 illegal in the uk many countries some

1817
01:18:57,458 --> 01:18:58,958
 states in america i think have been

1818
01:18:58,958 --> 01:19:01,458
 opening up um but i think there is some

1819
01:19:01,458 --> 01:19:04,000
 open for funding in in these countries so

1820
01:19:04,000 --> 01:19:08,166
 i'm fully supportive of it the only thing

1821
01:19:08,166 --> 01:19:09,666
 i would say is with some of the stronger

1822
01:19:09,666 --> 01:19:12,666
 psychedelics like iraq rusca you have to

1823
01:19:12,666 --> 01:19:14,708
 be i think a little bit cautious going in

1824
01:19:14,708 --> 01:19:18,541
 if you are extremely traumatized it can

1825
01:19:18,541 --> 01:19:21,125
 obviously be helpful with trauma and some

1826
01:19:21,125 --> 01:19:23,250
 people have found huge benefits from it

1827
01:19:23,250 --> 01:19:25,958
 but some people can get re-traumatized

1828
01:19:25,958 --> 01:19:28,375
 and be affected afterwards so i think

1829
01:19:28,375 --> 01:19:31,625
 it's just going in with a you know a

1830
01:19:31,625 --> 01:19:34,750
 cautious mind open mind and uh just

1831
01:19:34,750 --> 01:19:36,458
 looking after yourself but

1832
01:19:36,458 --> 01:19:41,041
 yeah big big supporter of it

1833
01:19:41,041 --> 01:19:43,500
 fair enough yeah i i think intention is

1834
01:19:43,500 --> 01:19:46,041
 everything and these compounds have to be

1835
01:19:46,041 --> 01:19:48,041
 utilized in a safe manner it's not a case

1836
01:19:48,041 --> 01:19:49,875
 of just going to whales finding a sheep

1837
01:19:49,875 --> 01:19:52,666
 farming picking a bunch of uh mushrooms

1838
01:19:52,666 --> 01:19:54,375
 and then lying there and sort of

1839
01:19:54,375 --> 01:19:56,208
 wondering why it's all gone wrong

1840
01:19:56,208 --> 01:19:58,291
 afterwards you have to have an intention

1841
01:19:58,291 --> 01:20:02,166
 you have to have uh and uh the support

1842
01:20:02,166 --> 01:20:04,958
 there to help you through this process

1843
01:20:04,958 --> 01:20:08,375
 and uh i think that psychedelic assisted

1844
01:20:08,375 --> 01:20:11,291
 psychotherapy is really is a breakthrough

1845
01:20:11,291 --> 01:20:13,625
 for a lot of people but yeah as you said

1846
01:20:13,625 --> 01:20:16,916
 it's very fringe um that i know there is

1847
01:20:16,916 --> 01:20:19,541
 a lot more research and uh in the

1848
01:20:19,541 --> 01:20:22,000
 synthetic psychedelics your dissociative

1849
01:20:22,000 --> 01:20:25,250
 compounds like ketamine uh for a lot of

1850
01:20:25,250 --> 01:20:26,750
 people that seems to be pretty hit and

1851
01:20:26,750 --> 01:20:29,166
 miss though the ones that do seem to be

1852
01:20:29,166 --> 01:20:32,208
 effective are your uh your plant oculoids

1853
01:20:32,208 --> 01:20:35,166
 your mesculin your psilocybin but um

1854
01:20:35,166 --> 01:20:37,833
 those are a lot of strings attached as

1855
01:20:37,833 --> 01:20:39,625
 you've alluded to just regarding the

1856
01:20:39,625 --> 01:20:42,666
 legalities and the laws but hopefully um

1857
01:20:42,666 --> 01:20:45,916
 the research that people like rick dobbel

1858
01:20:45,916 --> 01:20:47,500
 in doing at the maps institute will start

1859
01:20:47,500 --> 01:20:50,416
 to sort of expedite some of those some of

1860
01:20:50,416 --> 01:20:52,416
 that research and bring it into clinical

1861
01:20:52,416 --> 01:20:56,791
 practice um but yeah uh this has been

1862
01:20:56,791 --> 01:20:59,500
 amazing paisle thank you for your time um

1863
01:20:59,500 --> 01:21:01,333
 before i let you go though would you mind

1864
01:21:01,333 --> 01:21:02,833
 running through a few rapid fire

1865
01:21:02,833 --> 01:21:07,416
 questions for us of course cool uh your

1866
01:21:07,416 --> 01:21:09,208
 personal favorite daily

1867
01:21:09,208 --> 01:21:11,625
 nervous system regulating practice

1868
01:21:12,708 --> 01:21:16,166
 i would say either shaking depending on

1869
01:21:16,166 --> 01:21:18,250
 whether i'm trying to release some pent

1870
01:21:18,250 --> 01:21:21,833
 up um energy or otherwise if you feel

1871
01:21:21,833 --> 01:21:24,875
 like you need a little bit of a a hug and

1872
01:21:24,875 --> 01:21:26,541
 something to actually reassure your

1873
01:21:26,541 --> 01:21:29,583
 nervous system you can just do this kind

1874
01:21:29,583 --> 01:21:31,791
 of gentle rocking it mimics like when you

1875
01:21:31,791 --> 01:21:33,916
 were a baby essentially when you're being

1876
01:21:33,916 --> 01:21:35,500
 rocked it gives your nervous system that

1877
01:21:35,500 --> 01:21:37,916
 kind of safety and security so bit of

1878
01:21:37,916 --> 01:21:39,458
 rocking or a bit of shaking

1879
01:21:39,458 --> 01:21:43,666
 perfect thoughts on uh i think with david

1880
01:21:43,666 --> 01:21:44,583
 viselli's work with

1881
01:21:44,583 --> 01:21:46,708
 trauma release exercises t re

1882
01:21:46,708 --> 01:21:51,583
 what's my thoughts on t re i think like

1883
01:21:51,583 --> 01:21:54,750
 it's good i mean i have the result of t

1884
01:21:54,750 --> 01:21:56,333
 re i guess through doing the somatic

1885
01:21:56,333 --> 01:21:59,291
 exercises in general they do create a

1886
01:21:59,375 --> 01:22:01,708
 release so i think that it's super

1887
01:22:01,708 --> 01:22:04,208
 helpful i don't go through the i think

1888
01:22:04,208 --> 01:22:05,875
 there's with t re there's a specific kind

1889
01:22:05,875 --> 01:22:07,375
 of process you'll spruce and follow

1890
01:22:07,375 --> 01:22:09,875
 protocol to get to that particular

1891
01:22:10,000 --> 01:22:12,541
 shaking i have tried it in the past that

1892
01:22:12,541 --> 01:22:14,958
 was before i even knew about somatics and

1893
01:22:14,958 --> 01:22:17,500
 release and all those kind of things so i

1894
01:22:17,500 --> 01:22:19,833
 think that shaking itself is really good

1895
01:22:19,833 --> 01:22:22,625
 whether you need to do that t re protocol

1896
01:22:22,625 --> 01:22:25,583
 i would question because you can also get

1897
01:22:25,583 --> 01:22:29,708
 um fascia and trauma release from other

1898
01:22:29,708 --> 01:22:30,250
 different types of

1899
01:22:30,250 --> 01:22:31,500
 somatic exercises as well

1900
01:22:31,500 --> 01:22:35,416
 perfect um one myth about chronic fatigue

1901
01:22:35,416 --> 01:22:37,000
 you would like to dispel i

1902
01:22:37,000 --> 01:22:39,166
 think i might have labored that already

1903
01:22:39,166 --> 01:22:41,666
 you can actually get a better but you

1904
01:22:41,666 --> 01:22:43,583
 know the fact that you've got it for life

1905
01:22:43,583 --> 01:22:46,291
 there's no cure you're there forever

1906
01:22:46,291 --> 01:22:47,916
 you're going to have to count spoons for

1907
01:22:47,916 --> 01:22:50,583
 the rest of your life just have the

1908
01:22:50,583 --> 01:22:52,458
 mindset you can get better yeah

1909
01:22:52,458 --> 01:22:58,000
 perfect and then finally one book on a

1910
01:22:58,000 --> 01:22:59,833
 resource that you really love that you

1911
01:22:59,833 --> 01:23:01,750
 think anyone in this space should read

1912
01:23:01,750 --> 01:23:05,541
 i would say the body keeps the score you

1913
01:23:05,541 --> 01:23:07,958
 know i put gabbo mate but i don't think

1914
01:23:07,958 --> 01:23:11,083
 you wrote it i need to suddenly had a

1915
01:23:11,083 --> 01:23:13,666
 brain i've got so many others in my um

1916
01:23:13,666 --> 01:23:16,541
 mind it's what's his name

1917
01:23:16,541 --> 01:23:18,625
 not a clue i'll tell you now keeps the

1918
01:23:18,625 --> 01:23:22,708
 score um vessel vander yep

1919
01:23:22,708 --> 01:23:26,500
 vessel vander cook i would say the body

1920
01:23:26,500 --> 01:23:28,833
 keeps the score by vessel vander cook

1921
01:23:28,833 --> 01:23:33,041
 it's it's revolutionary in terms of how

1922
01:23:33,041 --> 01:23:37,166
 it informs people about what's happening

1923
01:23:37,166 --> 01:23:40,750
 in your body and how it remembers what's

1924
01:23:40,750 --> 01:23:42,791
 what's going on if you're new to mind

1925
01:23:42,791 --> 01:23:45,291
 body or new to this kind of way of

1926
01:23:45,291 --> 01:23:47,416
 thinking around the nervous system and

1927
01:23:47,416 --> 01:23:49,500
 healing yourself it's it's

1928
01:23:49,500 --> 01:23:51,083
 super good one to start with

1929
01:23:51,083 --> 01:23:54,208
 yeah i think the one i really like as

1930
01:23:54,208 --> 01:23:56,750
 well is zebras don't get ulcers yeah

1931
01:23:56,750 --> 01:23:59,166
 yeah yeah that's a great one there's

1932
01:23:59,166 --> 01:24:02,250
 quite a few um books out there which are

1933
01:24:02,250 --> 01:24:03,875
 helpful in terms of

1934
01:24:03,875 --> 01:24:05,750
 explaining some of these concepts

1935
01:24:06,500 --> 01:24:07,666
 yeah there really are there a bunch of

1936
01:24:07,666 --> 01:24:10,666
 them um hazel again you've been a star

1937
01:24:10,666 --> 01:24:12,750
 absolute treasure um i know you have a

1938
01:24:12,750 --> 01:24:14,791
 program that walks people through this

1939
01:24:14,791 --> 01:24:16,750
 from beginning to end uh would you like

1940
01:24:16,750 --> 01:24:18,333
 to run us through it quickly and then

1941
01:24:18,333 --> 01:24:20,333
 where people can find you the best place

1942
01:24:20,333 --> 01:24:21,166
 that they can connect

1943
01:24:21,166 --> 01:24:22,375
 and all that good stuff

1944
01:24:22,375 --> 01:24:24,958
 yeah sure it's called the neuro

1945
01:24:24,958 --> 01:24:27,750
 resilience program it's 12 modules it's

1946
01:24:27,750 --> 01:24:29,750
 six months so there's no rush and you're

1947
01:24:29,750 --> 01:24:31,541
 kind of supported through it it's a

1948
01:24:31,541 --> 01:24:35,125
 coaching group coaching program and it's

1949
01:24:35,125 --> 01:24:37,041
 really helps people who have got

1950
01:24:37,041 --> 01:24:39,041
 themselves stuck into this kind of

1951
01:24:39,041 --> 01:24:42,791
 chronic illness world or in burnout a

1952
01:24:42,791 --> 01:24:45,166
 sense of burnout and it's a supportive

1953
01:24:45,208 --> 01:24:47,250
 program to help you through with a

1954
01:24:47,250 --> 01:24:50,041
 approach on somatics brain retraining and

1955
01:24:50,041 --> 01:24:52,916
 then the root cause element as well you

1956
01:24:52,916 --> 01:24:55,125
 can find me at my website which is

1957
01:24:55,125 --> 01:24:57,541
 rebalancerepaisal.com the program details

1958
01:24:57,875 --> 01:25:01,000
 are on there and for anybody watching you

1959
01:25:01,000 --> 01:25:03,083
 can have a 10 discount which i cope with

1960
01:25:03,083 --> 01:25:05,333
 the code i'm going to share i also do a

1961
01:25:05,333 --> 01:25:08,000
 one hour nervous system reset hour if

1962
01:25:08,000 --> 01:25:09,875
 that's something that you kind of feel

1963
01:25:09,875 --> 01:25:11,791
 like you could just do with an hour of

1964
01:25:11,791 --> 01:25:14,083
 bringing yourself back into your body and

1965
01:25:14,083 --> 01:25:15,791
 learning some some techniques to kind of

1966
01:25:15,791 --> 01:25:16,958
 get you on with the day then

1967
01:25:16,958 --> 01:25:19,583
 um i offer 10 off that as well

1968
01:25:19,583 --> 01:25:21,750
 perfect we'll link to all that in the

1969
01:25:21,750 --> 01:25:23,750
 show notes along with the code and your

1970
01:25:23,750 --> 01:25:26,583
 uh all your social platforms as well um

1971
01:25:26,583 --> 01:25:28,708
 hazel thank you so much your time we'll

1972
01:25:28,708 --> 01:25:29,583
 have to do this again soon

1973
01:25:29,583 --> 01:25:31,000
 thank you for having me Rob